Is Reality Real Or Just An Idea?

[anonymousoneuk]

?

[devin]

?

"Real" is another idea.

[anonymousoneuk]

"Real" is another idea.

Real meaning of reality... Cyclixez

[devin]

Real meaning of reality... Cyclixez

???:confused:

I don't understand the symbols you just used to describe our symbolic reality.

[anonymousoneuk]

???:confused:

I don't understand the symbols you just used to describe our symbolic reality.

Real is taken to mean "being of reality".

This is cyclic/circular logic.

Peace.

[darketernal]

What do you define as real? That which you perceive as real, is your reality.

[1694]

Schrödinger's Cat.

[anonymousoneuk]

What do you define as real? That which you perceive as real, is your reality.

Real being just an idea...

This is stepping back from an idea that anything is real, more than being simply a concept based on ideas, based on more ideas etc...

Peace

[anonymousoneuk]

Schroeders (shrodingers) SP cat.

Could you please elaborate?

Thanks and Peace :)

[1694]

Could you please elaborate?

Thanks and Peace :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

possibly not really the answer you were looking for I'm afraid

[devin]

What do you define as real? That which you perceive as real, is your reality.

Yes, it's all about how a unique subjective experience defines reality. There is sometimes disagreements on whether this reality is an "illusion" or a "dream" or "It's absolutely real... now spread the word about the NWO!" I can call this reality whatever I want.

To me all there is is imagination (ideas) that play off other ideas endlessly.

Do ideas only exist because of a being's (seemingly) separated, subjective experience defining ideas that were created by other beings before it who also were experiencing separation when they created their ideas?

[anonymousoneuk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

possibly not really the answer you were looking for I'm afraid

I know about Schrodinger's cat and some of the philosophical implications, but i was wondering which you were specifically trying to communicate?

Peace :)

[1694]

Just the concept.

Like i said, i didn't think it would be the answer you were looking for.

[zero1]

I tend to think Reality is everything that becomes part of your awareness where Truth and Self meet and converge in life.

[darketernal]

Real being just an idea...

This is stepping back from an idea that anything is real, more than being simply a concept based on ideas, based on more ideas etc...

Peace


Oh I agree there. Reality is only as real as you percieve it to be. Society as a whole has a very illogical view of what reality is.

[shellygurrrl]

Reality is real to each of us in our way (perception). Overall, the big picture, we are very limited in how we view reality. Reality can be manipulated and changed. It's how you view it/see it. Changing the way you view things changes your reality. That's why it's about perception.

[anonymousoneuk]

Yes, it's all about how a unique subjective experience defines reality. There is sometimes disagreements on whether this reality is an "illusion" or a "dream" or "It's absolutely real... now spread the word about the NWO!" I can call this reality whatever I want.

Perhaps there is disagreement because reality is all three...

It seems we exist in an abstract field of potential perceptions, perhaps none of our perceptions are correct at this level of existence, perhaps realising this as much as possible, is a step towards real realisation of truth.

"Wisdom is knowing how little we know" - Socrates

Is realising nothing is realisable a realisation, does one contradict oneself in trying to achieve it?



To me all there is is imagination (ideas) that play off other ideas endlessly.

Do ideas only exist because of a being's (seemingly) separated, subjective experience defining ideas that were created by other beings before it who also were experiencing separation when they created their ideas?

This certainly sounds like a piece of the puzzle, it reminds me of some of what in written in The Seth Material by Jane Roberts, have you read any of her work?

I'd say that infinitely varied subjective perspective may be needed in order for any single perspective to exist, as a mechanism for duality to exist, i am reminded of the Tao.

Peace :)

[emanuel]

Stand infront of a wall and headbutt it as hard as you can. Then ask yourself if it felt 'real'.


(not that I wish you to do yourself harm)

[anonymousoneuk]

Stand infront of a wall and headbutt it as hard as you can. Then ask yourself if it felt 'real'.


(not that I wish you to do yourself harm)

Stand infront of a wall and headbutt it as hard as you can. Then ask yourself if it felt 'real'.


(not that I wish you to do yourself harm)

[devin]

Perhaps there is disagreement because reality is all three...

It seems we exist in an abstract amorphorus field of potential perceptions, perhaps none of our perceptions are correct at this level of existence, perhaps realising this as much as possible, is a step towards real realisation of truth.

Saying something is "correct" is another judgment. Reality/realities are works of art, creative expressions that can't stand still (unlike a painting) and are unpredictable (unlike a movie.) Paintings and movies can't even be considered "correct" or "incorrect" let alone a work of art that we can't even fully perceive (not even close in our current awareness.)

"Wisdom is knowing how little we know" - Socrates

"There is very little to understand in a fluid universe." - Theun Mares. It's all about creating what we want. Our "lower selves" (which can get us into some unpleasant situations) naturally fall away the more we liberate our imagination.

Is realising nothing is realisable a realisation, does one contradict oneself in trying to achieve it?


Can you re-word that?


This certainly sounds like a piece of the puzzle, it reminds me of some of what in written in The Seth Material by Jane Roberts, have you read any of her work?

I'd say that infinitely varied subjective perspective may be needed in order for any single perspective to exist, as a mechanism for duality to exist, i am reminded of the Tao.

Peace :)

Yes I've read Seth. :) God I've read so much!:mad::mad::D

[anonymousoneuk]

Saying something is "correct" is another judgment. Reality/realities are works of art, creative expressions that can't stand still (unlike a painting) and are unpredictable (unlike a movie.) Paintings and movies can't even be considered "correct" or "incorrect" let alone a work of art that we can't even fully perceive (not even close in our current awareness.)

Saying that something is "a work of art" is another judgment:D

What i meant to say in saying that no perception is correct, is that, no perception is absolute.

I think that creations ultimate purpose is to fully realise itself as infinitely complex and realising it is one, by realising there is no limit to any component within in, such a thing is far beyond our ability to conceptualise, the words I've used to describe it will mean something completely different at higher levels of existence naturally.



"There is very little to understand in a fluid universe." - Theun Mares. It's all about creating what we want. Our "lower selves" (which can get us into some unpleasant situations) naturally fall away the more we liberate our imagination.

I would say that this is true, except that i believe our ideas of want at this level of existence is flawed, that we are primarily of the lower self in human form and that, i believe that the universe is driven to evolve by desire, but does not bend to our thoughts and desires, our desires and thoughts flow with creations desire for evolution.



Can you re-word that?

Not in a way that makes it simpler lol...

It's sort of a mental tongue twister. It's getting at a contradiction which could occur is attempting to fully realise oneself.




Yes I've read Seth. :) God I've read so much!:mad::mad::D

I'm actually on the last couple pages of that book, I've not read any of her other ones yet. I've not read too many books at all yet, being 18 and recently awakening from the narcissistic egoistic hypnotic state that most i know have fallen under.

Peace :)

[devin]

Saying that something is "a work of art" is another judgment:D

What i meant to say in saying that no perception is correct, is that, no perception is absolute.

I think that creations ultimate purpose is to fully realise itself as infinitely complex and realising it is one, by realising there is no limit to any component within in, such a thing is far beyond our ability to conceptualise, the words I've used to describe it will mean something completely different at higher levels of existence naturally.

:D Well, really ALL words/symbols are judgments. Actually all realities are based on and contain only judgments (ideas.)That is why in the law of one series, Ra considers everything but the ONE as a distortion.

I think creation's ultimate purpose is to create. It will never realize itself as there is nothing to realize. That is why it fragmented in the first place.

I'm actually on the last couple pages of that book, I've not read any of her other ones yet. I've not read too many books at all yet, being 18 and recently awakening from the narcissistic egoistic hypnotic state that most i know have fallen under.

It's good you have broke the "spell" to a degree but just know that books are another obstacle (well in my opinion.) So many argue about "is this person disinfo?" when they need to realize that the ACT of reading is a conspiracy in itself.

[anonymousoneuk]

:D Well, really ALL words/symbols are judgments. Actually all realities are based on and contain only judgments (ideas.)That is why in the law of one series, Ra considers everything but the ONE as a distortion.

I haven't gotten around to reading Ra yet, but it is one of the books i plan to read after I've finished Seth, I've already bought the first of the series, i think i may start reading it tonight, interesting you mention it.



I think creation's ultimate purpose is to create. It will never realize itself as there is nothing to realize. That is why it fragmented in the first place.

What is create though? Is it not the same as exist, when we consider all exists beyond perception of time.

Most of all i really think we are too limited to realise, as you say due to our lower self/mind, that is to say, if we feel we want to experience a sense of realisation, then overcoming that which limits sense of realisation must be overcome.

The last book i read, was called "The Destructors" It was a short book i read for English class when i was 13-14, it's message was to give consideration to the idea that destruction could be considered a form of creation.

If we can consider time to not exist and the universe to both contract and expand in an instant, as well as consider theories in quantum physics that matter is both destroyed and recreated instantly, then perhaps we can see routes for thoughts to a place of seeing that the universes purpose is not strictly creation, but something beyond our limited ideas of creation.



It's good you have broke the "spell" to a degree but just know that books are another obstacle (well in my opinion.) So many argue about "is this person disinfo?" when they need to realize that the ACT of reading is a conspiracy in itself.

Again this breaks down into subjectivity, but as you have already said, so do all words, as they are symbols of abstract concepts, which are naturally subjective.

I don't know that i can consider anything dis info, or a conspiracy, though i the perceptions might have use to be considered in context of knowing all is well balanced working.

It wouldn't seem to be of practical benefit to be wary that every action enslaves one to that action...

Peace :)

[devin]

I haven't gotten around to reading Ra yet, but it is one of the books i plan to read after I've finished Seth, I've already bought the first of the series, i think i may start reading it tonight, interesting you mention it.

All five books (e-book form) are available for free on the internet. If you can't find them let me know and I'll email them to you.

What is create though? Is it not the same as exist, when we consider all exists beyond perception of time.

Creations vary because of varying perceptions. Time is a creation and the influence of time on a being who is perceiving it as real will result in more unique creations.

Most of all i really think we are too limited to realise, as you say due to our lower self/mind, that is to say, if we feel we want to experience a sense of realisation, then overcoming that which limits sense of realisation must be overcome.

The concept of "I must overcome my lower self" is a trap designed to never end. It breeds guilt, shame and self-hatred which greatly restricts creativity. It is not your fault or mine that we have lower desires that are self-destructive/life-destructive. It's just what happens when an unlimited being is told and made to believe in severe limitations. Evil is just a result that occurs when one chooses to live a life where they know the beings they incarnate to will impose their sins (limitations) on them. "The sins of the father..."

The last book i read, was called "The Destructors" It was a short book i read for English class when i was 13-14, it's message was to give consideration to the idea that destruction could be considered a form of creation.

I say let's take the attitude of just walking away from creations we don't care for and create our own rather than destroy something. I have no right to destroy another being's creation but I CAN create something much better which will influence people stuck in that particular beings creation to pack up and leave it.

If we can consider time to not exist and the universe to both contract and expand in an instant, as well as consider theories in quantum physics that matter is both destroyed and recreated instantly, then perhaps we can see routes for thoughts to a place of seeing that the universes purpose is not strictly creation, but something beyond our limited ideas of creation.

We are pieces of the one creator being pulled down further and further like a rubber band into the "darkness" of limitation only to become more and more individual in the process and then shoot up into our own unique paradise. Nothing is sweeter than that. Nothing is more divine than that. :) All the things we can't even come close to comprehending right now will come but why get there in a hurry? "Take the long way home."

I actually believe there is no going home. We are home now. This is home now.

[anonymousoneuk]

All five books (e-book form) are available for free on the internet. If you can't find them let me know and I'll email them to you.

I actually have the ebooks, i just decided i'd rather read a physical copy, as ot's not something i've done much of before.



Creations vary because of varying perceptions. Time is a creation and the influence of time on a being who is perceiving it as real will result in more unique creations.

I could subscribe to this perception infact, i once did, maybe still do, where mine may differ is in the idea that perception of time is a product of excess lower mind engagement, excess indulgement in physical existence, excess in the sense that if we released lower mind function (which perhaps could be roughly locationed to the brain stem r-complex or reptilian brain) we would release physical existence, which if one saw of beneficial to release, could be seen as a release from imprisonment within, we would become increasingly energy based, as our essence vibrated beyond physical limitations and perceptions useful to those limitation, such as time.



The concept of "I must overcome my lower self" is a trap designed to never end. It breeds guilt, shame and self-hatred which greatly restricts creativity.


I don't think it need breed guilt, if one understands it's simply the way things are, the same as one needs to earn money to feed oneself, earning money could be perceived as something which limits creativity, but it's simply necessary if one has found themselves into a world and state of being where money and eating are necessary.



It is not your fault or mine that we have lower desires that are self-destructive/life-destructive. It's just what happens when an unlimited being is told and made to believe in severe limitations.

How do you suppose an unlimited being get's made to believe something without choosing and therefore being responsible for it?



Evil is just a result that occurs when one chooses to live a life where they know the beings they incarnate to will impose their sins (limitations) on them. "The sins of the father..."

I'm not sure what you mean by evil, or beings they incarnate to, are you saying your incarnate self is not yourself and that your incarnate self is placing limits upon you?

I'm not sure where sins of the father extends from out of this could you please explain a little more?


I say let's take the attitude of just walking away from creations we don't care for and create our own rather than destroy something. I have no right to destroy another being's creation but I CAN create something much better which will influence people stuck in that particular beings creation to pack up and leave it.



Could you explain this a little more also please?




We are pieces of the one creator being pulled down further and further like a rubber band into the "darkness" of limitation only to become more and more individual in the process and then shoot up into our own unique paradise. Nothing is sweeter than that. Nothing is more divine than that. :) All the things we can't even come close to comprehending right now will come but why get there in a hurry? "Take the long way home."

I actually believe there is no going home. We are home now. This is home now.

I don't see how we could create any kind of paradise, i see our ticket out of this reality being, learning how to disengage from our ego and false sense of individuality, so that we learn how to be service to others, so that we can ultimately learn to realise, we are responsible for all of creation because we are all of creation.

Have you read any of a channeling by Laura Jadcyke? The beings she channeled claimed to be 6th density also like Ra.

Peace :)

[devin]

I could subscribe to this perception infact, i once did, maybe still do, where mine may differ is in the idea that perception of time is a product of excess lower mind engagement, excess indulgement in physical existence, excess in the sense that if we released lower mind function (which perhaps could be roughly locationed to the brain stem r-complex or reptilian brain) we would release physical existence, which if one saw of beneficial to release, could be seen as a release from imprisonment within, we would become increasingly energy based, as our essence vibrated beyond physical limitations and perceptions useful to those limitation, such as time.

I see a lot of people act like the "physical is bad" and that it's a prison and that the human body is a creation by negative aliens. Yes I have called it many times a prison but its only a prison of perception as it seems you agree. There is no "physical here" and "light realm there" but rather just a change of perception. I'm saying WE chose to experience this "prison." Aliens did not, we did.

Many people also say that humanity is in a state of devolution rather than evolution. They say are ancestors were far advanced than us and so on. Well in my opinion (on a certain level, i.e. linear time) we have been both evolving and devolving. Maybe, devolving, say, in moral issues and technology and evolving in emotional depth. I think if we would sit our ancestors down and chat with us right now they would surely dazzle us with their knowledge but I think we would see an "edge" to us that they wouldn't have as we have explored tremendous varying and increasingly complex emotions.


I don't think it need breed guilt, if one understands it's simply the way things are, the same as one needs to earn money to feed oneself, earning money could be perceived as something which limits creativity, but it's simply necessary if one has found themselves into a world and state of being where money and eating are necessary.

Eating is not necessary for survival and neither is money. Check out this user on youtube... YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. - He says a lot of stuff I agree with.


How do you suppose an unlimited being get's made to believe something without choosing and therefore being responsible for it?

The unlimited being does it on purpose.


I'm not sure what you mean by evil, or beings they incarnate to, are you saying your incarnate self is not yourself and that your incarnate self is placing limits upon you?

I knew full well that I would incarnate with beings (mother, father, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, etc...) that would immediately feed me their limitations. My incarnate self is a mixture of a lot of different influences as is everybody's.


I'm not sure where sins of the father extends from out of this could you please explain a little more?

Sorry, it's a well known bible quote that I assumed you would know.

'The sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons.'

The father teaches the son limitations.

Could you explain this a little more also please?

This system that we all hate was not created by our personalities. Instead of rallying up our peers to "destroy" the system let's just create something better and just walk away from it.


I don't see how we could create any kind of paradise, i see our ticket out of this reality being, learning how to disengage from our ego and false sense of individuality, so that we learn how to be service to others, so that we can ultimately learn to realise, we are responsible for all of creation because we are all of creation.

I used to buy into that STO or STS but I look at it now as kind of garbage. When you create your deepest desires and as your lower desires go away you are in service to ALL.

Have you read any of a channeling by Laura Jadcyke? The beings she channeled claimed to be 6th density also like Ra.

The cassiopeans? Yes.

[anonymousoneuk]

Eating is not necessary for survival and neither is money. Check out this user on youtube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AizTQcr2Aes - He says a lot of stuff I agree with.

Before i reply, i want to say that that video was great, a lot of stuff i agree with also, i also checked out his self box part 3/3 i think I'm going to watch his others and listen to those two a couple times, great videos, thanks for those.

I'll come back to this thread tomorrow and give a real response, i think there's a lot we have in common, a lot that we can figure out between us.

For a long time i have been torn between perceptions of how everything is, i broke it down in to two main ones, one is very very similar to yours, such as STS STO being bullshit, i got to the point where i thought the C's were demons (i was frustrated with trying accept the limitation their material implied my being had). The other took more inspiration from the Seth material.

I guess i could describe one view as being more limiting than the other, but this might not be the correct perspective of either rough abstract construct/paradigm.

I'm going sleep now I'll P.M you to let you know when i reply.

Thanks, Peace and Goodnight! :)

[emanuel]

Stand infront of a wall and headbutt it as hard as you can. Then ask yourself if it felt 'real'.


(not that I wish you to do yourself harm)

Fine, take it personally.

[jayelowell]

my realilty is...

[emanuel]

?


Are you not conscious of the concept. Or do you not know how to use a dictionary?


(And you called me a fuckwit. Love it :D)

[anonymousoneuk]

Fine, take it personally.

Define taking something non-personally?

Your not accounting for my potential complexity.

[anonymousoneuk]

Are you not conscious of the concept. Or do you not know how to use a dictionary?


(And you called me a fuckwit. Love it :D)

Yes...

Because i have just spent 3 pages discussing the concept, i am not consciously involved enough to express my thoughts on the topic of the thread i started.

You use fuckwit logic and are in love with it.

Peace :)

[krakhead]

Do you mean 'Semantic Reality', 'Anthropological Relativism Reality', 'Neurological Relativism Reality', or 'Physical Reality'?

"The universe may not only be stranger than we think, but stranger than we can think"

J.B.S. Haldane

[emanuel]

Yes...

Because i have just spent 3 pages discussing the concept, i am not consciously involved enough to express my thoughts on the topic of the thread i started.

You use fuckwit logic and are in love with it.

Peace :)

At least I have logic in my toy box!

You think that if you use long words that that somehow makes you smart or interesting.

'Duuuh is reality real' *twitch twitch*

[anonymousoneuk]

At least I have logic in my toy box!

You think that if you use long words that that somehow makes you smart or interesting.

'Duuuh is reality real' *twitch twitch*

:rolleyes:

All i am doing is revealing yourself to you.

Peace :)

[emanuel]

:rolleyes:

All i am doing is revealing yourself to you.

Peace :)

I don't doubt you think so.

[anonymousoneuk]

Do you mean 'Semantic Reality', 'Anthropological Relativism Reality', 'Neurological Relativism Reality', or 'Physical Reality'?

These are just ideas...

Neurological relativism boils down to solophism, which is a philosophy that is strictly related outwards within a scope that the common relative level of consciousness we experience is all that is available to experience.

Most forms of relativism descend into nihilism, without a metaphysical context.

So i would say the reality i was questioning, that is to say, the concept the idea, for the scope of what we would stretch out definition of reality within, would be a metaphysical relativistic construction.

You have presented these titles, but these titles do not represent well defined concepts, as the concept within the philosophies, are concepts that are embedded within many other philosophies.

The whole purpose of this thread was to move away from strict compartmentalised thought and find a path to what is at the route of knowing.

Your seem to consider all these ideas as separate, as if the ideas of neurological relativism, don't account for physical reality?

Asking me to define the concept of reality that the discussion is about as 1 of 4 options, when the thread is a question of what reality is, therefore making the subject of the thread open to interpretation and completely ambiguous as to allow for maximum possibilities of definition, seems pretty fuckwittish.

Think before you post next time krakhead, really think, don't just summon up an egogasmic expression equivalent to saying "look big words, me smart".

Emmanuel before you say anything, my words actually mean something, i don't completely disregard logically obvious premises and project an oblivious floccinaucinihilipilification on to the concept being addressed, like Krakhead.

Peace :)

[krakhead]

These are just ideas...

So through your own smart-arsedness, you've completely missed the point I was trying make.

Well done.

Whirled peas
:)

[emanuel]

So through your own smart-arsedness, you've completely missed the point I was trying make.

Well done.

Whirled peas
:)

Anon misses the point A LOT I'm affraid bud, and looks silly doing it.


Hi anon :D

[emanuel]

These are just ideas...

Neurological relativism boils down to solophism, which is a philosophy that is strictly related outwards within a scope that the common relative level of consciousness we experience is all that is available to experience.

Most forms of relativism descend into nihilism, without a metaphysical context.

So i would say the reality i was questioning, that is to say, the concept the idea, for the scope of what we would stretch out definition of reality within, would be a metaphysical relativistic construction.

You have presented these titles, but these titles do not represent well defined concepts, as the concept within the philosophies, are concepts that are embedded within many other philosophies.

The whole purpose of this thread was to move away from strict compartmentalised thought and find a path to what is at the route of knowing.

Your seem to consider all these ideas as separate, as if the ideas of neurological relativism, don't account for physical reality?

Asking me to define the concept of reality that the discussion is about as 1 of 4 options, when the thread is a question of what reality is, therefore making the subject of the thread open to interpretation and completely ambiguous as to allow for maximum possibilities of definition, seems pretty fuckwittish.

Think before you post next time krakhead, really think, don't just summon up an egogasmic expression equivalent to saying "look big words, me smart".

Emmanuel before you say anything, my words actually mean something, i don't completely disregard logically obvious premises and project an oblivious floccinaucinihilipilification on to the concept being addressed, like Krakhead.

Peace :)


Anon: Duuuurrhh what are doze white fluffy fings in da sky *dribble dribble*

[anonymousoneuk]

I see a lot of people act like the "physical is bad" and that it's a prison and that the human body is a creation by negative aliens. Yes I have called it many times a prison but its only a prison of perception as it seems you agree. There is no "physical here" and "light realm there" but rather just a change of perception. I'm saying WE chose to experience this "prison." Aliens did not, we did.

Indeed only a prison of perception, but like Micheal(author of that video) said "the brain is a bigass hardrive"

Perhaps so big that it's limits cannot be overcome unless vibrationally transcended?

There is obviously a difference between altering ones perception and altering ones reality.

If you've ever seen hypnosis, people can be hypnotised to believe they are experiencing just about any scenario and this would be a manifestation of their mind, which does not make that reality real, beyond the computer creating it within the context of which the computer exists.

Do you want to dream 24/7 or have and objective force to tell you what you are beyond your own interpretation/perception and seek to find that "force".

What i think we have to lock onto is the true perception that can lead us to freedom, i do not think any amount of wishful thinking about what we could experience should get in the way of the absolute laws of energy and consciousness which govern the rules of perceptual experience in the universe.

Dreaming and control of ones existence has it's place within that, but it seems this is all you want to accept, the universe is a self created dream.





Many people also say that humanity is in a state of devolution rather than evolution. They say are ancestors were far advanced than us and so on. Well in my opinion (on a certain level, i.e. linear time) we have been both evolving and devolving. Maybe, devolving, say, in moral issues and technology and evolving in emotional depth. I think if we would sit our ancestors down and chat with us right now they would surely dazzle us with their knowledge but I think we would see an "edge" to us that they wouldn't have as we have explored tremendous varying and increasingly complex emotions.

How do you think mankind came to be on this earth?

I actually think the C's idea of a "fall" or choice to descend and experience a reincarnation cycle makes sense.

I'd like to believe the universe is a playground for us, but i think to perceive the universe as a playground is a concept somewhat influenced by our experience at this level of existence.




Eating is not necessary for survival and neither is money. Check out this user on youtube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AizTQcr2Aes - He says a lot of stuff I agree with.

The point is we are not all powerful, if we were all powerful, there would be no limits, if there were no limits, there would be no point to anything, as limits give meaning to the idea of unlimitation.

A person could be hypnotised to believe that eating is not necessary, but this would not change the fact that without food the body dies.


The unlimited being does it on purpose.

I agree, but what does that make us? We obviously have limits, we are limited, by gravity, time etc...

Why do you think we choose




I knew full well that I would incarnate with beings (mother, father, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, etc...) that would immediately feed me their limitations. My incarnate self is a mixture of a lot of different influences as is everybody's.

Indeed, but i think you thinking of the upper levels of reality, as being just like this one, the conscious state being in anyway similar to the filtered product of the brain.



Sorry, it's a well known bible quote that I assumed you would know.



The father teaches the son limitations.

I know the quote, i always took it to mean the father teaches the son behavior, now i understand the context in which you meant to represent the meaning you were giving it.



This system that we all hate was not created by our personalities. Instead of rallying up our peers to "destroy" the system let's just create something better and just walk away from it.

How do you propose we do this?




I used to buy into that STO or STS but I look at it now as kind of garbage. When you create your deepest desires and as your lower desires go away you are in service to ALL.

Well...

If you understand that one is always in service to all no matter what, but service to self and service to others simply reflect different energy dynamics of how one seeks to serve themselves/all, then one doesn't have to feel pressured by the concepts, or feel they inspire guilt.

It's may simply be a fact that if you choose to be more sts than sto, theb]

If you think about animals they don't hurt anyone, but they can fall prey to a system in which 100 billion of them are slaughtered, experimented on or worse every year, even if we were good little humans,

I also would like be able to imagine and dream up any kind of paradigm of physical/energetic laws for my consciousness to exist in,but just as we are bound by the physical laws of this realm, that we choose to be bound by, there are likely rules at all levels of consciousness governing the operation of consciousness within those realms, seeing that all of creation eventually return to source, eventually choose to realise it is infinite, that there is only one and all creation realise out of choice it is that one.

I think we can be free from this system, but if you equating freedom with power to control or create, then i think that type of thinking is more likely to keep one enslaved.

I used to believe the same as what you suggesting, half way through reading Seth, but i can't simply deny the laws of physics, although i'd like to simply wishfully think whatever interpretation of reality i want.

So indeed perception is reality, but perception if rules i don't think effect the absolute rules.

What cosmology do you propose lead to our existence in this perceived reality of a world?

Thanks for this discussion, i think there is something to the idea we are all reflections of ourselves, your somewhat an archetypal representation to me of ideas i want to believe in, but am not sure make sense, i do believe in discussion all people may be that to one another.

Peace :)

[anonymousoneuk]

So through your own smart-arsedness, you've completely missed the point I was trying make.

Well done.

Whirled peas
:)

How have i missed a point?

Your trying to say that we can't know.

Great! Let's do nothing!

Very profound...

Was that your point?

If it's not then your right i missed it, please enlighten me and apologies :)

Peace

[knockoutgorilla]

Id say that life is what you see it as.

If you want a better life then just reach out and take it,really what is stopping you?except some bullshit excuse that YOU CANT DO IT.

If your not happy with yourself,then change.Who gives a monkeys what some dick from work thinks of you?

I have my idea of reality and its being me and not a false flag.

[emanuel]

How have i missed a point?

Your trying to say that we can't know.

Great! Let's do nothing!

Very profound...

Was that your point?

If it's not then your right i missed it, please enlighten me and apologies :)

Peace

Why don't you just ask the fucking question to clarify first instead of making an assumption to serve your desire to attempt to belittle people?

And why not ask Devin what he means by 'system'? What system? Seemed like a pretty big point for you before.

[grenadene]

'Is reality real or just an idea?'

yes its definately one of those two

[anonymousoneuk]

Id say that life is what you see it as.

If you want a better life then just reach out and take it,really what is stopping you?except some bullshit excuse that YOU CANT DO IT.

If your not happy with yourself,then change.Who gives a monkeys what some dick from work thinks of you?

I have my idea of reality and its being me and not a false flag.

It's a nice philosophical notion.

Self worth is important, be yourself, don't let others define you or influence your opinion without really thinking about what they are saying.

Thanks

This thread is about what reality is however, do you have a well defined cosmological notion on that subject to share?

Peace :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Why don't you just ask the fucking question to clarify first instead of making an assumption to serve your desire to attempt to belittle people?

And why not ask Devin what he means by 'system'? What system? Seemed like a pretty big point for you before.

Emanuel, i have no desire to belittle people, i only want to elevate, so that hopefully there will be people who can educate me, who will have better answers than i do, who will have revelations and epiphanies to share.

Unfortunately there is way too much ego even among "the awakened".

People cannot be belittled if they have evolved beyond it, so when i call someone a "fuckwit", I'm simply trying to draw out their ego, so it can destroy itself.

I'd hope others to do the same for myself, except whether I've learned or whether my ego has, my ego doesn't get draw into conflict as easy as it once did. So now i have to make sure i don't develop any kind of unreasonable sense of self importance, as i'm floating above the conflict, in the past it's been easy to become arrogant, not that i necessarily believe that's a bad thing, I'm somewhat trying to hedge my bets, because i have self desire, but it may be necessary for myself to abandon it, if i risk self destruction.

Why don't you ask Devin, if it's a big point for you now?

Peace :)

[gordysmit]

What would happen if one day every one on the planet the memory was wiped clean ?

[emanuel]

Emanuel, i have no desire to belittle people, i only want to elevate, so that hopefully there will be people who can educate me, who will have better answers than i do, who will have revelations and epiphanies to share.

Unfortunately there is way too much ego even among "the awakened".

People cannot be belittled if they have evolved beyond it, so when i call someone a "fuckwit", I'm simply trying to draw out their ego, so it can destroy itself.

I'd hope others to do the same for myself, except whether I've learned or whether my ego has, my ego doesn't get draw into conflict as easy as it once did. So now i have to make sure i don't develop any kind of unreasonable sense of self importance, as i'm floating above the conflict, in the past it's been easy to become arrogant, not that i necessarily believe that's a bad thing, I'm somewhat trying to hedge my bets, because i have self desire, but it may be necessary for myself to abandon it, if i risk self destruction.

Why don't you ask Devin, if it's a big point for you now?

Peace :)


I'm not referring to the name calling. You dared call me deluded and that I think myself intellectually superior! Looking at the stuff you write I now see that you are simply projecting.

[anonymousoneuk]

I'm not referring to the name calling. You dared call me deluded and that I think myself intellectually superior! Looking at the stuff you write I now see that you are simply projecting.

People cannot be belittled if they have evolved beyond it, so when i call someone "deluded", I'm simply trying to draw out their ego, so it can destroy itself.

I'm saying nothing more than in your thread titled *cough*, that you came across as believing that you were some keyholder to great truth, describing this truth by saying "i have a key to truth, but i will not explain it, because i am the holder of a key to truth that i will not explain" ad infinitum , but never showing the goods, never disambiguating your obfuscated statements.

This continued pattern of behavior irritated some people, so i thought i would weigh in on the situation and reveal you to those that were confused (who pmed me and thanked me) and to yourself.

Your egocentric attitude is evidenced by the following posts in that thread:

Do you truely believe you are no longer manipulated by their system? That you are no longer a 'sheeple', as so many of you put it?




Ran so fast out of one pen that you didn't realise you were running into another!

It is not a question of being in a system!

I don't care for any comments.

I am just interested in whether or not you can be true to yourself.

Don't answer to me, answer to yourselves!

You shouldn't be focussing on what I do.



The more I have to explain the more the point is proven.


Good night.

Good luck with the question. If you have the bottle to answer it (not to me *sigh*)

This is not about right and wrong. The grass is always greener........

Programming within programming.

So you don't believe on some level you are typing on a keyboard?

You needing to be 'told' is part of the point. (and part of a problem)


How about you take a step back and look again.

You talk of being vague. I asked very straight forward questions.

Don't try and over complicate it, it really is quite simple.


You go on and continue to go on, even spamming my inbox in your own ego based self frustration.

Perhaps you are the one that is projecting?

Whoevers projecting here i hope they realise.

Peace :)

[devin]

Ahhh I had more of the response but I lost some of it. Here is my response for now...

Indeed only a prison of perception, but like Micheal(author of that video) said "the brain is a bigass hardrive"

Perhaps so big that it's limits cannot be overcome unless vibrationally transcended?

There is nothing to overcome. There are no layers of realities. It isn't like Ok here is the red density and right behind this line right here is the orange, and then yellow, etc... It's all blended. Your vibration is never steadily vibrating at the same rate. You are in different densities in every moment though you (and all of us) stay within a certain spectrum right now. (example: we might go from dark yellow to light yellow but we never really go to a vibration with a hint of green - maybe in sleep and other rare occurrences.) Really though, we aren't going" anywhere. We are all vibrations simultaneously with different parts "perceptually stuck" in certain areas. That is why I say there is nothing to overcome as there are infinite possibilities within any spectrum. Why is your personality sometimes (seemingly) in such a hurry to "transcend" it all when your dreamer put you here in this uncharted territory to explore it and CREATE in the context of what you have found here?

There is obviously a difference between altering ones perception and altering ones reality.

When speaking of your personality, yes. However, your personality and all that you interact with in your entire world is a result of a higher consciousness's perception. The microcosm adheres to the macrocosm's perception and behavior but the microcosm still can create without limits within it.

I want to say more but I'll have to think about how I want to word the rest.

If you've ever seen hypnosis, people can be hypnotised to believe they are experiencing just about any scenario and this would be a manifestation of their mind, which does not make that reality real, beyond the computer creating it within the context of which the computer exists.

Can the hypnotist hypnotize the person(macrocosm) and tell him to start smacking his arm really hard? What reality are the cells in his arm (microcosm) going through when that is happening? Would the cells say their pain is a manifestation of THEIR mind or SOMETHING ELSE'S mind?

What i think we have to lock onto is the true perception that can lead us to freedom, i do not think any amount of wishful thinking about what we could experience should get in the way of the absolute laws of energy and consciousness which govern the rules of perceptual experience in the universe.

Jon Rappoport in his more recent articles wrote something I have also noticed and felt was right..."People think of freedom as an ideal rather than a launching pad." When he says "launching pad" he means the ability, opportunity and having all the resources available to create with all your heart's desire, to the furthest reaches of your imagination. Then when you get there your at another launching pad to create even more radically.

[devin]

How do you think mankind came to be on this earth?

WE are the writers and the actors (and much more.)

I'd like to believe the universe is a playground for us, but i think to perceive the universe as a playground is a concept somewhat influenced by our experience at this level of existence.

That's the point!. The ONE prefers love, bliss, fun, "freedom," etc...We know this because we are the one and we prefer these things! The ONE wants to explore itself with endless VARIETIES. We all do not want the same thing! We all have a different vision of what "fun" or "freedom" is and so on. How beautiful it is to see ourselves separate and then create beauty in the context of that separate experience and then reunite with another separate part and see what beauty it created from being under the influence of separation and then let both the separate beings' new creations spark completely new ideas! It's BRILLIANCE!


The point is we are not all powerful, if we were all powerful, there would be no limits, if there were no limits, there would be no point to anything, as limits give meaning to the idea of unlimitation.

The only limits we will ever worry about are the ones we will perceive at any point in our existence. All limits that can perceived shall be broken for imagination brought them to be and imagination will end them. "The lord(imagination) giveth and the lord taketh away."

A person could be hypnotised to believe that eating is not necessary, but this would not change the fact that without food the body dies.

You misunderstood me. I'm saying that literally the body can survive without food or water.

[devin]

If you think about animals they don't hurt anyone, but they can fall prey to a system in which 100 billion of them are slaughtered, experimented on or worse every year, even if we were good little humans,

Animals do hurt people and other animals. Back in catholic school the nuns used to tell us that "humans are the only species that kills its own." Hogwash. Chimps, Hippos, etc... all kill their own kind as well. The food chain is a totally ridiculous creation that affects all who participate in it in ways we consider "negative." Another brilliant youtube user who talks about this and many many other things is Adampants2007/Adampants2008. You will love him I think.


I also would like be able to imagine and dream up any kind of paradigm of physical/energetic laws for my consciousness to exist in,but just as we are bound by the physical laws of this realm, that we choose to be bound by, there are likely rules at all levels of consciousness governing the operation of consciousness within those realms, seeing that all of creation eventually return to source, eventually choose to realise it is infinite, that there is only one and all creation realise out of choice it is that one.

This is home now. There is never any turning back.

I think we can be free from this system, but if you equating freedom with power to control or create, then i think that type of thinking is more likely to keep one enslaved.

When I say "free from the system" I mean REALLY free from the system. As in relying on absolutely NOTHING to ensure your survival in any "reality" you choose to be in. That means not relying on air to breath, water, food, shelter, etc... to survive. I'm not just talking about freeing ourselves from the banks and governments.

I used to believe the same as what you suggesting, half way through reading Seth, but i can't simply deny the laws of physics, although i'd like to simply wishfully think whatever interpretation of reality i want.


The laws of physics are just another creation and scientists are just a bunch of artists. What if Isaac Newton came out with Quantum physics all those years ago? I'll tell you...Pigs would be traveling the universe back in the fucking 60's man! :D

[anonymousoneuk]

Ahhh I had more of the response but I lost some of it. Here is my response for now...



There is nothing to overcome. There are no layers of realities. It isn't like Ok here is the red density and right behind this line right here is the orange, and then yellow, etc... It's all blended. Your vibration is never steadily vibrating at the same rate. You are in different densities in every moment though you (and all of us) stay within a certain spectrum right now. (example: we might go from dark yellow to light yellow but we never really go to a vibration with a hint of green - maybe in sleep and other rare occurrences.) Really though, we aren't going" anywhere. We are all vibrations simultaneously with different parts "perceptually stuck" in certain areas. That is why I say there is nothing to overcome as there are infinite possibilities within any spectrum. Why is your personality sometimes (seemingly) in such a hurry to "transcend" it all when your dreamer put you here in this uncharted territory to explore it and CREATE in the context of what you have found here?



When speaking of your personality, yes. However, your personality and all that you interact with in your entire world is a result of a higher consciousness's perception. The microcosm adheres to the macrocosm's perception and behavior but the microcosm still can create without limits within it.

I want to say more but I'll have to think about how I want to word the rest.



Can the hypnotist hypnotize the person(macrocosm) and tell him to start smacking his arm really hard? What reality are the cells in his arm (microcosm) going through when that is happening? Would the cells say their pain is a manifestation of THEIR mind or SOMETHING ELSE'S mind?



Jon Rappoport in his more recent articles wrote something I have also noticed and felt was right..."People think of freedom as an ideal rather than a launching pad." When he says "launching pad" he means the ability, opportunity and having all the resources available to create with all your heart's desire, to the furthest reaches of your imagination. Then when you get there your at another launching pad to create even more radically.

I'm with you now bro.

I got it in my head, that there was something wrong with reality, it was after reading the Cassiopean stuff.

I attribute it to that material, but i think that the experience was more of a revealing myself to myself experience.

I got it in my head that there was something wrong and then tried to understand why there was something wrong, then i tried to figure out how to perceive what was wrong as a good thing(my mind simply was not going to accept perceiving reality in that way).

After that didn't work out, i had to reach for a new perception.

The Seth material largely prompted this, there was an interesting contradiction between the Seth material and the Cassiopean material:


Seth said: There are no demons except of our own creation .

The Cassiopeans said in short: The human race has been manipulated for thousands of years by hype dimensional entities.

The Cassiopeans said of Seth:

Q: (L) Who was Seth, channeled by Jane Roberts?


A: Higher plane earth spirit.



Q: (L) Were the teachings in the Seth material accurate and was that a good source?



A: Yes but rapidly becoming obsolete as you move toward new reality.


Laura did not even question any of this and i find that odd as Seth is probably some of the best channeled material ever produced.

Laura never asked what a higher plane earth spirit was, then the cassiopeans said "rapidly becoming obsolete as you move toward new reality"

Now it's interesting that they both gave validity to Seth and described it as becoming obsolete as Laura moved towards a new reality.

A new reality is interesting phraseology, not as you approach the end of the cycle or as times have changed, but "a new reality".

However anyone interprets this, i take it as a clue, to how reality construction operates.

These channeled materials, they as much represent the reality of the channeler as they do the beings being channeled, it's a multiplanar multidimensional intersection.

I do think they are higher awareness's, of any of the ones I've read i think Seth gives the most real clues as to how things work, I've a few channels which seem to present pretty clear and well reasoned paradigms for the workings of reality beyond our own perception.

I think that the realities may all possibly exist, that along the road, we can choose to diverge into and contribute to generation of elaborately constructed, only when we begin to see that we are lost can we find our way back out of them.

Seth and the cassiopeans are definitely in contradiction to one another, although I'm sure elements from both can find common ground, as a separate message they are both very different in vibe and content.

How i think it works, i think that there was a being with infinite creative ability, to express it he created other beings which would create more beings and created more being, somewhere along the line our soul got created which was connected to this great being and we are our soul expressing it's creative ability.

This is basically what Seth describes, he really emphasis the creative aspect of existence.

Now, if we create our reality, then i think that there are rules governing how we create reality, but if we realise them, we can govern those rules and if we realise those rules we can govern those rules.

A lot of the creation is being handled by unconscious parts of our self, but i think ultimately we can realise more and more how we are responsible for all of creation.

Before my idea of freewill was that, creation could only take on a specific pattern(sts/sto) and that freewill existed because our higher conscious selves were responsible and in some way for our path through creation, and despite the dis empowerment of the ego, we are responsible for all of creation because at some point we realise we created everything.

Sort of works, but that idea seems far too limiting to creativity and in general all the baggage it brings into the equation kind of invalidates human endeavor in a vast amount of ways.

With this new idea, if the ego is ultimately in control of the laws which govern the laws etc...

Then power to create flows both ways and allows for a lot more creative possibilities.

More to come, but i want to say thank you Devin, i think a part of me had been trying to break free from those perceptions for quite a while.

Thankyou and Peace :)

[phildee3]

Is Reality Real Or Just An Idea?



Ideas are real, aren't they?

More real than "reality," in fact.

The idea for all things exists before their fabrication.

[anonymousoneuk]

Animals do hurt people and other animals. Back in catholic school the nuns used to tell us that "humans are the only species that kills its own." Hogwash. Chimps, Hippos, etc... all kill their own kind as well. The food chain is a totally ridiculous creation that affects all who participate in it in ways we consider "negative." Another brilliant youtube user who talks about this and many many other things is Adampants2007/Adampants2008. You will love him I think.



This is home now. There is never any turning back.



When I say "free from the system" I mean REALLY free from the system. As in relying on absolutely NOTHING to ensure your survival in any "reality" you choose to be in. That means not relying on air to breath, water, food, shelter, etc... to survive. I'm not just talking about freeing ourselves from the banks and governments.



The laws of physics are just another creation and scientists are just a bunch of artists. What if Isaac Newton came out with Quantum physics all those years ago? I'll tell you...Pigs would be traveling the universe back in the fucking 60's man! :D

See the "problem" with perception is anything can make sense with enough presuppositions.

It's only a problem i you trying to break free from a perception that doesn't work with your personality, the Cassiopean paradigm could counter most of my ideas, but then again so could Christianity.

The cassiopeans had an interesting way of accounting for obscure information, such as the city of Baalbek.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39869&highlight=baalbek

However, i think that leaving some things as a mystery at this plane of existence is acceptable, less believe more possibility.

Do you think that by leaving your mind open to possibility, real actual realities could from around a phenomenon such as baalbek that would explain it, that there could be multiple explanatory actual realities that could from for individuals and only one would be true (perhaps once the various possible versions of humankind mass consciousness settles on what truth will be for their reality.

For example, in one future i decide tiny elf-like beings built baalbek and i tune into the frequency of humankind mass consciousness that agrees that shall eventually become common knowledge.

In another future it was... some completely other force.

In some futures it may remain in complete flux my mind never fully settling on an answer and so staying in tune with the possible collective consciousness that never becomes decided about it.

I think just as much as you can tune it, you might be able to tune out, tune into one that the collective is decided and then tune out to one that is not.

Possibilities could be endless in this way.

What do you think?

Peace :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Ideas are real, aren't they?

More real than "reality," in fact.

The idea for all things exists before their fabrication.

I'm with you on that to and you posted at 2.22! You win a smiley :)

[anonymousoneuk]

2.22 on the 1/11 no less.

Thanks for sharing, this is an idea, i just today am fully accepting.

Thankyou :)

[devin]

I'm with you now bro.

I got it in my head, that there was something wrong with reality, it was after reading the Cassiopean stuff.

I attribute it to that material, but i think that the experience was more of a revealing myself to myself experience.

I got it in my head that there was something wrong and then tried to understand why there was something wrong, then i tried to figure out how to perceive what was wrong as a good thing(my mind simply was not going to accept perceiving reality in that way).

After that didn't work out, i had to reach for a new perception.

The Seth material largely prompted this, there was an interesting contradiction between the Seth material and the Cassiopean material:


Seth said: There are no demons except of our own creation .

The Cassiopeans said in short: The human race has been manipulated for thousands of years by hype dimensional entities.

The Cassiopeans said of Seth:

Q: (L) Who was Seth, channeled by Jane Roberts?


A: Higher plane earth spirit.



Q: (L) Were the teachings in the Seth material accurate and was that a good source?



A: Yes but rapidly becoming obsolete as you move toward new reality.


Laura did not even question any of this and i find that odd as Seth is probably some of the best channeled material ever produced.

Laura never asked what a higher plane earth spirit was, then the cassiopeans said "rapidly becoming obsolete as you move toward new reality"


lol, I remember reading that transcript too and thinking it was odd too that she didn't question it further.

Higher plane earth spirit to me means sort of like an archetype particular to this planet that is an aspect of many human personalities... in a microcosmic way.

Now it's interesting that they both gave validity to Seth and described it as becoming obsolete as Laura moved towards a new reality.

A new reality is interesting phraseology, not as you approach the end of the cycle or as times have changed, but "a new reality".

However anyone interprets this, i take it as a clue, to how reality construction operates.

These channeled materials, they as much represent the reality of the channeler as they do the beings being channeled, it's a multiplanar multidimensional intersection.

I do think they are higher awareness's, of any of the ones I've read i think Seth gives the most real clues as to how things work, I've a few channels which seem to present pretty clear and well reasoned paradigms for the workings of reality beyond our own perception.

I think that the realities may all possibly exist, that along the road, we can choose to diverge into and contribute to generation of elaborately constructed, only when we begin to see that we are lost can we find our way back out of them.

Seth and the cassiopeans are definitely in contradiction to one another, although I'm sure elements from both can find common ground, as a separate message they are both very different in vibe and content.

I see contradiction as just another spark for creativity. Actually a HUGE stimulus.

How i think it works, i think that there was a being with infinite creative ability, to express it he created other beings which would create more beings and created more being, somewhere along the line our soul got created which was connected to this great being and we are our soul expressing it's creative ability.

This is basically what Seth describes, he really emphasis the creative aspect of existence.

Now, if we create our reality, then i think that there are rules governing how we create reality, but if we realise them, we can govern those rules and if we realise those rules we can govern those rules.

A lot of the creation is being handled by unconscious parts of our self, but i think ultimately we can realise more and more how we are responsible for all of creation.

Before my idea of freewill was that, creation could only take on a specific pattern(sts/sto) and that freewill existed because our higher conscious selves were responsible and in some way for our path through creation, and despite the dis empowerment of the ego, we are responsible for all of creation because at some point we realise we created everything.

Sort of works, but that idea seems far too limiting to creativity and in general all the baggage it brings into the equation kind of invalidates human endeavor in a vast amount of ways.

With this new idea, if the ego is ultimately in control of the laws which govern the laws etc...

Yes I agree. The ego is not evil. All the hijacked spiritual disciplines tell us always to "conquer the ego." That just leaves us weak and distracted and you can't create too much in a weakened state and having to worry about so much. I've said this before but the "lower parts" of the self just naturally fall off the higher you fly.

Then power to create flows both ways and allows for a lot more creative possibilities.

More to come, but i want to say thank you Devin, i think a part of me had been trying to break free from those perceptions for quite a while.

Thankyou and Peace :)

Thank you too. There are plenty more perceptions we all need to break because we still ain't flying or communicating telepathically yet. :D:cool:

[xpleet]

A true prison is one in which the wardens don't want the prisoners to know that they're imprisoned and enslaved. Creating new paradigms and belief systems only suits "them", it doesn't free anyone.

[anonymousoneuk]

A true prison is one in which the wardens don't want the prisoners to know that they're imprisoned and enslaved. Creating new paradigms and belief systems only suits "them", it doesn't free anyone.

That whole line of reasoning is defendant on the existence of a prison.

Secondly, if such a prison existed what exactly could one do about it?

So interesting that a person who takes faith in the cassiopean material should show up on this thread.

In anycase my philosophy is largely based on Seth which the C's endorsed.

An even better prison would be a prison created by tricking people into believing there was one, when there wasn't.(Not that i think that there are any beings that can trick us, the only person that could possibly trick us would be ourselves).

[anonymousoneuk]

lol, I remember reading that transcript too and thinking it was odd too that she didn't question it further.

Higher plane earth spirit to me means sort of like an archetype particular to this planet that is an aspect of many human personalities... in a microcosmic way.

how about an archetype specific to a certain reality, that being the reality of Jane as her reality intersected with our own?



I see contradiction as just another spark for creativity. Actually a HUGE stimulus.

True Dat



Yes I agree. The ego is not evil. All the hijacked spiritual disciplines tell us always to "conquer the ego." That just leaves us weak and distracted and you can't create too much in a weakened state and having to worry about so much. I've said this before but the "lower parts" of the self just naturally fall off the higher you fly.

These are my thoughts also.

When you assume yourself evil, morality become clear cut, but destructive to the self.

My intuition tells me morality as an absolute concept(absolute relative to subjective culture values) has something to do with creativity, rather than STS STO.



Thank you too. There are plenty more perceptions we all need to break because we still ain't flying or communicating telepathically yet. :D:cool:

True and that's if we even want to, one of my strongest drives and passions have been to help people, i have felt strong empathy for people in such simple situations, i don't like to see people fail in their endeavors.

If i can find the power within me, i'd like to lock onto a path in which i can act on this empathy more, i like pioneering, so if 2012 makes for more possible realities, perhaps i can find one in which i can help to pioneer a better world.

Think there's anything to this 2012 business?

Thanks Devin :)

[devin]

how about an archetype specific to a certain reality, that being the reality of Jane as her reality intersected with our own?




True Dat



These are my thoughts also.

When you assume yourself evil, morality become clear cut, but destructive to the self.

My intuition tells me morality as an absolute concept(absolute relative to subjective culture values) has something to do with creativity, rather than STS STO.



True and that's if we even want to, one of my strongest drives and passions have been to help people, i have felt strong empathy for people in such simple situations, i don't like to see people fail in their endeavors.

If i can find the power within me, i'd like to lock onto a path in which i can act on this empathy more, i like pioneering, so if 2012 makes for more possible realities, perhaps i can find one in which i can help to pioneer a better world.

Think there's anything to this 2012 business?

Thanks Devin :)

Well we have to remember one thing about this 2012 business. That is, it's a creation. Whether it's a macrosm's creation (cosmic cycle of time coming to an end) or what would we term a "microcosm's" creation (i.e. a group of fellow humans or other beings getting together and thinking up stories to tell people) or both in a way... it's still a creation. And when something is created it influences all other creations.

Is it possible to have an ascension of the planet as described in so many books DESPITE the fact that there is nothing significant happening at a macrocosmic level? I think it is absolutely possible... that's not saying it's going to happen though.

Jon Rappaport described these times as a "renaissance" and I really do agree.

[anonymousoneuk]

Well we have to remember one thing about this 2012 business. That is, it's a creation. Whether it's a macrosm's creation (cosmic cycle of time coming to an end) or what would we term a "microcosm's" creation (i.e. a group of fellow humans or other beings getting together and thinking up stories to tell people) or both in a way... it's still a creation. And when something is created it influences all other creations.

Is it possible to have an ascension of the planet as described in so many books DESPITE the fact that there is nothing significant happening at a macrocosmic level? I think it is absolutely possible... that's not saying it's going to happen though.

Jon Rappaport described these times as a "renaissance" and I really do agree.

Why do we have to believe something has to occur at a macro cosmic level in order for it to occur?

Why not have 2012 be purely inspired by ego invention?

In other words, someone thought it up, so it has potential to express itself as reality if you believe in it.

As all the power of universes creativity is at the command on an ego(another word for self) that knows how to communicate with it.

Microcosmic events are all caused by our own minds, if you take it from Seth, it reminds me a little of the butterfly effect.

Further more, why does 2012 have to be an ascension?

Why not simply have the human race grow up a little bit?

We could move more towards a collectivist society, simply have people grow up enough and that's easily a possibility.

I use the word collectivist as a sort of general term, capitalism being not totally abolished, simply a more brother hood or community feeling evolving among mankind.

I'm talking about quite a dramatic shift in consciousness, but not an ascension.

Perhaps many different versions of the future could express itself and in this time, we need to really attempt to get in communication with ourselves in order to direct where we want to go.

There are some macro cosmic signs also however, the suns solar activity continuing to increase since 2001, the earth scheduled to align with the galactic center in 2012.

I want to stress i don't think there would be one massive event, more like a period of opportunity, which may last any amount of time.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the second post i made on page 6.

Thanks :)

[devin]

See the "problem" with perception is anything can make sense with enough presuppositions.

It's only a problem i you trying to break free from a perception that doesn't work with your personality, the Cassiopean paradigm could counter most of my ideas, but then again so could Christianity.

The cassiopeans had an interesting way of accounting for obscure information, such as the city of Baalbek.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39869&highlight=baalbek

However, i think that leaving some things as a mystery at this plane of existence is acceptable, less believe more possibility.

Do you think that by leaving your mind open to possibility, real actual realities could from around a phenomenon such as baalbek that would explain it, that there could be multiple explanatory actual realities that could from for individuals and only one would be true (perhaps once the various possible versions of humankind mass consciousness settles on what truth will be for their reality.

For example, in one future i decide tiny elf-like beings built baalbek and i tune into the frequency of humankind mass consciousness that agrees that shall eventually become common knowledge.

In another future it was... some completely other force.

In some futures it may remain in complete flux my mind never fully settling on an answer and so staying in tune with the possible collective consciousness that never becomes decided about it.

I think just as much as you can tune it, you might be able to tune out, tune into one that the collective is decided and then tune out to one that is not.

Possibilities could be endless in this way.

What do you think?

Peace :)

Leaving things as a mystery definitely opens reality up to far more possibilities. I was just talking about this today.

The higher a being evolves the quicker his thoughts manifest. At a certain level his thoughts manifest immediately. --- you have surely heard that many times reading Seth, the Cassiopeians, and so on.

However, let's look at the importance of this "lag time" at the lower levels.

We have two beings that are consciously unaware of each other (their passion is the visual arts) who both are envisioning basically the exact same image in their mind (they are connected of course) and they are both planning to materialize this image and show it off. Okay the first being is a 3rd density being who has to really work to manifest what he imagines (so he brings out the paints, canvas, etc... and starts painting) and the second being is a 4th density being that can create without physical labor if he chooses (he just thinks and the image begins to materialize -- not immediately but pretty quick in his perception)

Ok it's 5 minutes later and the 4th density being is already finished with this beautiful painting. Meanwhile the 3rd density being is not even close to being done.

The thing is, even though they had the exact same vision for how their paintings would turn out, they will end up with two totally different paintings. Why? The PROCESS of creating something sparks new ideas and when you follow those new ideas then even more new ideas arise and on and on and on. By the time the third density being is done with his painting it can be radically different to than what he first imagined it would be whereas the end result for the 4th density being will be very similar to what he thought it would be since he can create it so rapidly and effortlessly.

I'm not saying, though, that 3rd density beings are more creative than 4th density beings at all. Look at it this way... let's bring a 5th density being into the picture... Maybe an entire painting to a 5th density being is the equivalent to a single brush stroke done by a 3rd density being. Therefore the only way it can create what it wants to is if it can manifest "all that work" as quickly as it does.

[lewi]

?

Dam you arnt even trying anymore .......

[anonymousoneuk]

Dam you arnt even trying anymore .......

What?

[krakhead]

True Dat

Utterly off topic, but are you a fan of 'The Wire' by any chance? :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Leaving things as a mystery definitely opens reality up to far more possibilities. I was just talking about this today.

The higher a being evolves the quicker his thoughts manifest. At a certain level his thoughts manifest immediately. --- you have surely heard that many times reading Seth, the Cassiopeians, and so on.

However, let's look at the importance of this "lag time" at the lower levels.

We have two beings that are consciously unaware of each other (their passion is the visual arts) who both are envisioning basically the exact same image in their mind (they are connected of course) and they are both planning to materialize this image and show it off. Okay the first being is a 3rd density being who has to really work to manifest what he imagines (so he brings out the paints, canvas, etc... and starts painting) and the second being is a 4th density being that can create without physical labor if he chooses (he just thinks and the image begins to materialize -- not immediately but pretty quick in his perception)

Ok it's 5 minutes later and the 4th density being is already finished with this beautiful painting. Meanwhile the 3rd density being is not even close to being done.

The thing is, even though they had the exact same vision for how their paintings would turn out, they will end up with two totally different paintings. Why? The PROCESS of creating something sparks new ideas and when you follow those new ideas then even more new ideas arise and on and on and on. By the time the third density being is done with his painting it can be radically different to than what he first imagined it would be whereas the end result for the 4th density being will be very similar to what he thought it would be since he can create it so rapidly and effortlessly.

I'm not saying, though, that 3rd density beings are more creative than 4th density beings at all. Look at it this way... let's bring a 5th density being into the picture... Maybe an entire painting to a 5th density being is the equivalent to a single brush stroke done by a 3rd density being. Therefore the only way it can create what it wants to is if it can manifest "all that work" as quickly as it does.


Now, see i have been thinking about this density idea...

What i am not sure about is whether such levels of existence could possibly form, i guess they should be able to.

But is like you said, there are no levels they blend together.

Densities may be a fair term for level of physical consciousness advancement, how well it directs itself through physical time and space.

But the idea of some overhanging level of reality beyond our perception, is somewhat confusing without the STS STO idea to back it up.

I have only read Seth Speaks so far, i am going to finish The Nature of Personal Reality which i have just begun.

I was thinking that even cosmology may be subject to our expectation and creative force that supports our expectation.

So these 4th density 5th density concepts are more or less part of the Ra(have not read yet and cassiopean cosmology.

If we're going to talk about them, we need to define what me mean by the terms first.

Thanks :)

[devin]

Now, see i have been thinking about this density idea...

What i am not sure about is whether such levels of existence could possibly form, i guess they should be able to.

But is like you said, there are no levels they blend together.

Densities may be a fair term for level of physical consciousness advancement, how well it directs itself through physical time and space.

But the idea of some overhanging level of reality beyond our perception, is somewhat confusing without the STS STO idea to back it up.

I have only read Seth Speaks so far, i am going to finish The Nature of Personal Reality which i have just begun.

I was thinking that even cosmology may be subject to our expectation and creative force that supports our expectation.

So these 4th density 5th density concepts are more or less part of the Ra(have not read yet and cassiopean cosmology.

If we're going to talk about them, we need to define what me mean by the terms first.

Thanks :)

Well I just used them to help my analogy. :D

[anonymousoneuk]

Utterly off topic, but are you a fan of 'The Wire' by any chance? :)

Not per say but i seen some funny scenes from it:D

Sorry for snapping at a while back :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Well I just used them to help my analogy. :D

Well then i agree with your analogy;):D

How about the idea of a non absolute reality?

That through understanding, not just pretencing to understand, we can direct our consciousness and reality.

That the entire universe effectively does revolve around our consciousness as much as it revolves around any other consciousness.

That we can create entire cosmologies and meet other beings that have chosen to also experience those cosmologies.

However the ultimate goal is to understand how we create our reality and advancement comes from understanding the rules that govern that and beyond that understanding the rules that govern that governance.

It's alot better than the seemingly static STO STS cosmology, that's only going to run along a set sequence, there is no escaping the inevitability of evolving along an STO path into what would seem to be disolution self disolution.

Both Ra and the Cassiopeans seem to take away the importance of being human and being creative and existing just for the joy of creativity.

They seem to expect you to give something up.

What are you thoughts?

Thanks :)

[devin]

Well then i agree with your analogy;):D

How about the idea of a non absolute reality?

That through understanding, not just pretencing to understand, we can direct our consciousness and reality.

That the entire universe effectively does revolve around our consciousness as much as it revolves around any other consciousness.

That we can create entire cosmologies and meet other beings that have chosen to also experience those cosmologies.

However the ultimate goal is to understand how we create our reality and advancement comes from understanding the rules that govern that and beyond that understanding the rules that govern that governance.

It's alot better than the seemingly static STO STS cosmology, that's only going to run along a set sequence, there is no escaping the inevitability of evolving along an STO path into what would seem to be disolution self disolution.

Both Ra and the Cassiopeans seem to take away the importance of being human and being creative and existing just for the joy of creativity.

They seem to expect you to give something up.

What are you thoughts?

Thanks :)

Ra and the Cassiopeans have an agenda. Who doesn't though? Just because their content with their civilizations running that way who's to say we have to abide by that philosophy? Also how the *(%# do I know if I am 52% service to others? Where is the meter at? :D

I'm not saying everyone should give up reading them though. I just personally do not take things at face value. Why take anything at face value when you can just use it as a catalyst for creation? When people view things that way then they won't be so terrified of deception.

[anonymousoneuk]

I tried to think of a working model for freewill.

With STO STS in account reality seems to function in that you are the lesser aspect of a greater whole, to want power or self determination is wrong.


Here is the idea i worked out concerning how Freewill would work in an STS STO paradigm.

"Therefore as the universe is infinite, your consciousness must evolve towards infinite complexity if it seeks to know ultimate transcendental truth.

The only way that freewill can exist is if you are responsible for all the laws that govern your consciousness.

How our conscious mind can understand this, is if it understands itself as being the tip of an infinitely vast iceberg or pyramid of consciousness complexity.

If there is purpose in all of existence, then all of existence must have purpose within it, therefore it must be to some degree conscious.

At the pinnacle of the possibility of consciousness, you a much more advanced form of you chooses to realise that it is all conscious entities in the universe, therefore is responsible for all experience, all laws and all consciousness.

This is a succinct explanation that as implicated does very little to explanation the complexity of it's consequences which are infinitely complex.

In effect, you create the own meaning for your existence, our conscious mind is not in complete control and has to interact with the rules it's subconscious(which has access to much more advanced conscious forms of itself) places upon it."

Now how the Seth material would fundamentally alter this interpretation, is that Seth stresses we are not at the mercy of our subconscious.

In the Seth paradigm our conscious mind is imbued with the same creative power as the rest of our consciousness(i think the pinnacle of this is our oversoul, but it's also the base, then this oversoul is a creation

I think Seth said we as individual consciousness can go on to create our own even more unique souls, so we are not even directly limited to a specific oversoul.

Now in the STS STO, we are effectively tied into the grand scheme of things, we would have to realise we are infinite to realise that we have freewill, but this seems like forced compliance.

By that point we would have been somewhat blackmailed by the way the universe is into creating it again that way.

Not a nice thought to this ego/self.

That paradigm would show no care or concern for my feelings about this in this "limited" "insignificant" state of consciousness.

In the Seth paradigm, we seem to have 2 directional control.

In the cassiopean paradigm we would have to assume there is an "objective reality" and transcendental truth to be sought after.

The Seth paradigm seems to urge us to embrace the subjective nature of reality.

Seth i think also describes what were termed electromagnetic units as being the basis of all matter, from what i could tell, he was describing them as having something to do with emotion.

I'm going to make a leap here as i'm not 100% clear on what he said from memory.

This would mean emotion is the meaning of existence.

It is essentially subjective, as you cannot be objective if you experience emotion, you add colour and interpretation.

This objective reality that Laura and crew are pursuing and where the STS STO paradigm ultimately leads, seems completely antithetical to Seth.

Essentially we need to embrace the subjective nature of reality, not try to objectify it.

These are just some early rationalisations I'm making.

Odd how both can contain the other and they appear to be opposites and i for some time have been torn between them both.

What do you think?

Thanks :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Hey man you posted at 12.44, relative to where i am.

I had a number sync at 12.44, half way through the post, i stopped and looked at the clock as it switched from 44-45( normally i take the instant switch as a number sync if i was having some kind of revelation or good thought at the time).

Do you believe in number syncs?

Thanks :)

[anonymousoneuk]

This ones a long shot.

Seem to me that, getting caught in the STS STO paradigm is the opposite of embracing your personal power and that those being as you said might have an agenda.

I get bad vibes from the idea, mostly because of what i have learned and sense from reading discussions about Laura.

What if the way to advancement is about transcending dualities.

By not getting caught up in the STO STS idea you transcend fialing into that dualistic mindset, but you also choose between two very well reasoned and diametrically opposite options, that is the choice between that paradigm that seeks objectivity and one that embraces subjectivity.

I worked out a while ago when i believed in STS and STO how both forces saw the other as more or less evil or wrong in their viewpoint.

Now it seems i've found another duality that transcends even the choices between STS and STO.

What if you could potentially get caught up in that paradigm and then you would have to graduate from it realising the redundancy of it, in order to embrace the opposite and then transcend that dualistic mechanism.

What if it's like that every step of the way?

A duality shrouded in potentials, then when you spot a potential, it could either be correct or incorrect, if you get it wrong, you got to wait until you realise how to be free and then you can advance again.

That's a long shot in the dark, but the point iu made about the differences in how mechanisms of freewill would operate in my last post make sense.

The STS STO paradign would lead to pseudo freewill in embracing objectivity.

Whereas the non-dualistic paradigm embraces true freewill.

Thanks :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Hey man you posted at 12.44, relative to where i am.

I had a number sync at 12.44, half way through the post, i stopped and looked at the clock as it switched from 44-45( normally i take the instant switch as a number sync if i was having some kind of revelation or good thought at the time).

Do you believe in number syncs?

Thanks :)

Lmao i just posted this at 5.55 forum time.

Coincidence?

[anonymousoneuk]

Okay so...

As we climb up the levels of consciousness.

Hmm..

Now there's a problem right there, we are an aspect of an oversoul.

The creator created the oversouls.

But i don't see how this can be unidirectional.

The problem might be that we are cuaght up in the illusion of time, so it would be hard for us to visualise duodirectionality.

How the oversoul is both realising it is a higher form of consciousness and it created itself, while also seeding consciousnesses that would have the ability to both realise that it is the oversoul and was created by the oversoul and also seed consciousnesses, we get down to our level and we reproduce to seed consciousnesses, this may be the lowest level, we it's also the pinnacle.

We must also remember that we are the soul and the oversoul, it happens in a natural flow, there is no need to realise anything.

This paradigm would dictate the meaning of existence is to simply exist and give you own meaning to your existence, no obligations.

Here another wild stab in the dark! :eek:

There are creative potentials we can explore however.

We could create a new soul, which would then create a new soul and that new soul could create a whole new universe, through a reverse process, that would not be reverse as such, but duodirectional.

On a roll here... :cool:

Edit: Duo directional is now a word, i find it works better than Bi directionality in this context for some reason...

[anonymousoneuk]

As for dualities, well... Beyond this level, it would be hard to know what the kind of dualities there are to overcome and what they would be like.

So beyond the STS STO trappy sort of thing, i'm not sure.

Now what Seth said was that God or the universe, one if you like is doing is exploring, trying to find out if it was infact created by something higher and also if there are other like it, as it simply does not know.

I'm guessing this goes on infinitely and that's the game folks.

Well we'll see how i feel about this at a latter time.

Thanks :)

[jayelowell]

<----observing this thread!

[anonymousoneuk]

<----observing this thread!

Hey Jay, I'm turning in now, see you around, this thread might represent the next step in the evolution of my thought, everything i always subject to review though.

I'd like to hear your thoughts, i think you read a lot of what i said before, what do you think and how do you feel about these ideas compared to what i expressed before?

They are similar but fundamentally different and seem to be able to contain what i said before within it, as part of the context.

Thanks :)

[anonymousoneuk]

I see a lot of people act like the "physical is bad" and that it's a prison and that the human body is a creation by negative aliens. Yes I have called it many times a prison but its only a prison of perception as it seems you agree. There is no "physical here" and "light realm there" but rather just a change of perception. I'm saying WE chose to experience this "prison." Aliens did not, we did.

Many people also say that humanity is in a state of devolution rather than evolution. They say are ancestors were far advanced than us and so on. Well in my opinion (on a certain level, i.e. linear time) we have been both evolving and devolving. Maybe, devolving, say, in moral issues and technology and evolving in emotional depth. I think if we would sit our ancestors down and chat with us right now they would surely dazzle us with their knowledge but I think we would see an "edge" to us that they wouldn't have as we have explored tremendous varying and increasingly complex emotions.




Just thought i'd quote you from 08/10/08 to show something up.

I find it really interesting how a short time ago, 3 weeks or so, i would have argued that the Emotional depth was a symptom of increased egocentricity and solipsistic perspective of reality, partly induced by excess virtualised representation of human drama that glorifies an emotionally self centered approach to life, partly motivated because we are becoming more "sts" as time progresses.

Now i completely agree with you.

Even if it's correct, i simply can't regret human nature.

I no longer wish to look at things from that perspective anymore.

It seems it was a useful exercise, took me three weeks of natural progression to completely reverse it and put it in diametric context, then extend the idea further.

BOOoooYYYyyaaaaAAHHhh!

Thanks again :)

[jayelowell]

Hey Jay, I'm turning in now, see you around, this thread might represent the next step in the evolution of my thought, everything i always subject to review though.

I'd like to hear your thoughts, i think you read a lot of what i said before, what do you think and how do you feel about these ideas compared to what i expressed before?

They are similar but fundamentally different and seem to be able to contain what i said before within it, as part of the context.

Thanks :)alot of what you and devin spoke about goes over my head, like this seth guy you talk about...
but, overall I can see that your perception has changed! One thing though I think you shouldn't look for anything to identify with thats represents your change. Should I say more?

[devin]

Hey man you posted at 12.44, relative to where i am.

I had a number sync at 12.44, half way through the post, i stopped and looked at the clock as it switched from 44-45( normally i take the instant switch as a number sync if i was having some kind of revelation or good thought at the time).

Do you believe in number syncs?

Thanks :)

To me it reads 1:44 (though that's not really the time here).

Do I believe in number syncs? Well all I pretty much see nowadays is this number 144... so yes. :D

[anonymousoneuk]

To me it reads 1:44 (though that's not really the time here).

Do I believe in number syncs? Well all I pretty much see nowadays is this number 144... so yes. :D

I meant according to my clock here in the UK.

The forum time is 7 hours behind though, so the forum time showed 5.44 P.M for me, even though it was 12.44 AM.

Then there was another sync at 12.55 a.m which showed on forum time as 5.55 p.m.

Obviously completely different for you lol.

I'm off to sleep now.

Thanks :)

[devin]

I meant according to my clock here in the UK.

The forum time is 7 hours behind though, so the forum time showed 5.44 P.M for me, even though it was 12.44 AM.

Then there was another sync at 12.55 a.m which showed on forum time as 5.55 p.m.

I'm off to sleep now.

Thanks :)

Song to listen to before you go to sleep...

Hallelujah (Leonard Cohen) - Allison Crowe live performance - YouTube

I'll talk with you later. :)

[phildee3]

Thanks for sharing, this is an idea, i just today am fully accepting.

Thankyou :)



Thank you, anon, for a wonderful, wonderful thread.
A real gem!

[anonymousoneuk]

alot of what you and devin spoke about goes over my head, like this seth guy you talk about...
but, overall I can see that your perception has changed! One thing though I think you shouldn't look for anything to identify with thats represents your change. Should I say more?

Sure man, i think i know what you mean, change is ongoing and never ending, getting too comfortable with one idea if only going to hold you up.

Thanks :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Song to listen to before you go to sleep...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMOdVXAPJ0&feature=related

I'll talk with you later. :)

I did give her listen last night, beautiful strong voice and great song :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Thank you, anon, for a wonderful, wonderful thread.
A real gem!

Thank you too again :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Well I'm about done.

I worked out how the only way freewill can exist as an absolute construct is if we are in complete control of our reality and explained how this operates loosely from a microcosmic to macroscopic scale.

Now all that is left is for us individually to workout how this operates.

Hopefully my and others experiments with the Mind Portal will reveal something to me:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20621

Thanks to Devin for challenging my beliefs early in this thread and thanks to everyone :)

[anonymousoneuk]

Thanks :)

[jayelowell]

you are on a role!

[danster82]

I guess if we were able to perceive things with no thought or definition then that would be real just pure awareness of that which Is.

[anahata]

An idea manifests into our perceived reality.

[tejas]

LALALALALA Lets all stick our fingers in our ears and close our eyes, reality is what we make it LALALALALALALA