Freemasonry and Police Corruption

[ban freekmasons]

Firm in a Firm: Freemasonry and Police Corruption

http://freemasonrywatch.org/true_blue.html

[mike martin]

As Short is forced to admit himself within that piece:

As evidence against Freemasonry, this account is difficult to assess. Sceptics would stress that the alleged incidents took place more than fifty years ago, might have been much exaggerated in the original telling and are recollected here by a son who might be spicing up his father's account. No documents have survived and we have no proof the 'villans' were Masons. A lawyer would dismiss it all as 'triple hearsay'

It's all rumour and speculation, as always.

Mike

[ban freekmasons]

It's all rumour and speculation, as always.

Mike

Hello masonic drone mike martini aka ? ACP are sitting here waiting for the top masons to come and talk to us in front of a live, filmed audience. no rumour, no speculation and no masonic takers

[mike martin]

Hello masonic drone mike martini aka ? ACP are sitting here waiting for the top masons to come and talk to us in front of a live, filmed audience. no rumour, no speculation and no masonic takers

No quite right! Just anonymous loons trying to upset people.

Mike

[ban freekmasons]

No quite right! Just anonymous loons trying to upset people.

Mike

yeee ha ! we don't wear masonic regalia with a reptile head who represents mike martin who works in admin for UGLE, etc. anonymous loons ? no sir.
we don't want to upset anyone, just out with the truth.

[keystone]

.......................we don't want to upset anyone, just out with the truth.Fine - discuss it here then when you get off warning that is! Bring your ex-mason members along too - they can register if they want in their own names rather than hiding behind several people that use the same ban-freekmasons screen-name.

What a better way to prove your point (if you have one) that have your ex-masons discuss their issues direct with current masons.

There's your challenge Joe (or is it really Kim?) and I'm still waiting for you to call me. My number's there in black and white - you just need to fnd it and I've made it rather easy for you.

But it won't happen will it because you know the house will come tumbing down.

BTW I'll wait until you come off warning for an answer here - but you can still ring me.

PS your 'phones are still switched off - they are yours I guess?

[keystone]

Well someone claiming to be Joe Stirling called me last evening. After about 10 minutes discussion that claim seemed rather hollow so I ended the call as I don't believe it was he.

Now the lesson here Joe is that I put a number out there for you to call me on with a few clues as to location. If this guy can find it so can you.

Waiting your call but I won't hold my breath. :rolleyes:

[boots]

No quite right! Just anonymous loons trying to upset people.

Mike


Been looking in the mirror again mason:rolleyes:

[cheeney1]

No quite right! Just anonymous loons trying to upset people.

Mike

That Quote Just Made my Day.:D

[mike martin]

Been looking in the mirror again mason:rolleyes:

A loon I may be but I'm neither anonymous or trying to upset anyone.

Mike

[rickcard]

Wasn't Challenor an SAS hero of World War 2. I thought he defied corruption but in his own way. Didn't he arrest a pimp called Padmore (A Barbadian) and play drum beats with his fists on his head chanting "Bongo bongo bongo back to the Congo" ? I thought Challenor, slowly going mad, was a thorn in the side of his corrupt superiors ?

And perhaps his point in Court was exactly that. He was mad as a hatter and had been left in office so what does that say about the others ?

Didn't Challenor make the point that Soho was like swimming in a sewer. I thought he went mad trying to swim not only against the tide of Soho sewage but against his corrupt superiors. So if you want a conspiracy about him perhaps don't look at Freemasonry but maybe look at what they were slipping in his tea at the nick ?

And after mental health treatment he became a legal executive I think acting as duty solicitor protecting prisoners from corrupt police ?

He rose above a brutal childhood to fight for this country behind enemy lines in WW2.

Mock not how the strong man eventually stumbled .....

[mike martin]

Wasn't Challenor an SAS hero of World War 2. I thought he defied corruption but in his own way. Didn't he arrest a pimp called Padmore (A Barbadian) and play drum beats with his fists on his head chanting "Bongo bongo bongo back to the Congo" ? I thought Challenor, slowly going mad, was a thorn in the side of his corrupt superiors ?

And perhaps his point in Court was exactly that. He was mad as a hatter and had been left in office so what does that say about the others ?

Didn't Challenor make the point that Soho was like swimming in a sewer. I thought he went mad trying to swim not only against the tide of Soho sewage but against his corrupt superiors. So if you want a conspiracy about him perhaps don't look at Freemasonry but maybe look at what they were slipping in his tea at the nick ?

And after mental health treatment he became a legal executive I think acting as duty solicitor protecting prisoners from corrupt police ?

He rose above a brutal childhood to fight for this country behind enemy lines in WW2.

Mock not how the strong man eventually stumbled .....

Suprisingly, I find myself in agreement with you.

This man is immediately on a pedestal for me. Not because he was a Freemason but because he fought in one of the best regiments in the World.

A wider look at his history does pssibly give a more reasonable explanation for his methods and also his statements and memeories of the time.

Harry Challenor: SAS war hero whose subsequent police career ended in disgrace

Tuesday, 23 September 2008

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The remarkable career of Harold Challenor took him from Second World War heroism to a mental institution, via a highly controversial period in the Metropolitan Police.


As a member of the SAS he was decorated for spending seven dangerous months behind German lines. But as a member of the Met he was institutionalised after planting evidence on an innocent person. In later life he cheerfully acknowledged his psychiatric problems. "I accept that I'm mad," he once said. "I don't say mentally ill, that's a bloody silly expression. I'm mad and I get on with it."

He had a tough upbringing at the hands of a father who was described as brutal. Born in Staffordshire in 1922, Harry Challenor worked as a barber and a mechanic before joining the army. He was obviously unsuitable for the Royal Army Medical Corps, describing himself as "the most aggressive medical orderly they ever had". He transferred to the SAS, where his combative streak was given full rein. The stocky Challenor saw service in France, Norway and elsewhere.

Dropped by parachute into the Spezia region of occupied Italy, he and an officer succeeded in derailing three trains within a week. After spending weeks attempting to reach allied lines, both were captured but Challenor escaped twice, eventually passing through enemy lines. For his exploits he was awarded the Military Medal, the citation declaring: "Throughout the seven months spent behind enemy lines this NCO displayed the highest courage and determination."

Challenor was never noted for subtlety. He described being ordered to exercise German prisoners: "One of them made the mistake of smiling at me. The gaze I returned had him backing away. Then I took them out one by one and exercised them with some stiff fisticuffs."

He ended the war as a senior NCO, going on to work in a factory before joining the Metropolitan Police in 1951. He made rapid progress in the Met, gaining first promotion to the CID and then a transfer to the Flying Squad. A report frowning on his "noisy tactlessness" did nothing to impede his progress.

Moving to Soho as a detective-sergeant, he was hailed as a particularly determined opponent of local gangsters and extortionists. As he told it, "Fighting crime in Soho was like trying to swim against a tide of sewage. For every villain put behind bars there were always two more to take their place."

It was a tough beat, and he used tough methods. Many of those he helped put behind bars complained that he had planted evidence on them and used his fists against him, but if his superiors and the courts had misgivings about his methods they took no action. He was, after all, a genuine war hero working a tough beat and achieving results against hardened criminals: as such he was regarded as a real asset to law and order.

But Challenor was to go over the top in 1963, when he claimed that he had found a left-wing cartoonist, Donald Rooum, with half a brick while taking part in a public political protest. It was a stitch-up of a type deployed by Challenor in the past but Rooum, a member of the National Council for Civil Liberties, was able to show that his pockets contained no brick dust.

As a result Challenor was charged with corruption, but increasingly erratic behaviour on his part meant he was deemed unfit to plead and the case against him did not proceed.

He was committed to Netherne mental hospital, an official inquiry concluding that he was suffering from "paranoid schizophrenia". Some of those put behind bars by Challenor had convictions quashed and received compensation.

Opinions differ on whether the episode should have caused the authorities to take a much closer look at the practices of some parts of the Met's CID. Certainly the affair did not serve as a wake-up call, for in the 1970s a series of scandals was to demonstrate that corruption was endemic, going much deeper than the behaviour of a single wayward detective.

Challenor was depicted in The Strange Affair, a novel by Bernard Toms which dealt with police corruption and was made into a film. He was also the inspiration for the character of Inspector Truscott in Joe Orton's play Loot, and a character with strange delusions in the Sixties TV drama The Bone Yard.

Challenor once described some of his visions, telling of secret messages which instructed him he had a mission to save the world. Sometimes, he said, he had to cover his head because everyone around him could read his thoughts. This once happened to him on a plane journey "so I wrapped my coat around my head and remained like that through the flight." On another occasion he had a fantasy that he was one of the robbers on the cross beside Christ.

After many years of treatment he went to work in a solicitors' firm as a clerk. The SAS did not abandon him in his later years, inviting him to regimental occasions.

Pondering on the possible roots of his illness, he once mused that spending months behind enemy lines, sometimes killing, was bound to leave some mark on a personality. But on another occasion he discounted any wartime cause: "It's hereditary," he said. "I think somewhere in my family line there's madness."

His 1990 memoir, Tanky Challenor: SAS and the Met, featured on its cover the two elements he will be remembered for: his medals and a half-brick.

David McKittrick

Harold Gordon Challenor, soldier and police officer: born Bradley, Staffordshire 16 March 1922; married Doris May 1944 (one son); died 28 August 2008.

Also again when all of the words are read Short once again makes an admission that these occurrences are not down to Freemasonry but the way things were and even states

To be fair to Freemasonry, however, these horror stories have to be weighed against the fact that in the Porn Squad trials of 1977, three Crown witneses (Kilkerr, Andrews and Culver) were themselves 'on the square'. When it came to the crunch they were ready to tell the truth, even though it would send their Masonic brothers to jail.

Mike

[rickcard]

Mike

Challenor, in my view, was a victim of instinct and the urge to rationalize. This with his history and experiences must have made for an unhelpful mental health chemistry.

I think I knew the pimp he arrested and beat on the head whilst chanting "Bongo bongo bongo back to the Congo"

If it is the same man (certainly the same name) then he had an associate who pimped but also did debt recovery (the type that isn't recoverable via the County Court)

And one person who was subjected to encouragement to repay debts later turned up on suspect lists as a suspect OIRA asset in England acquiring information of use to the Soviet. And remember that it was circa 1962 that the Gardai sent us the copy of the original IRA terrorist plan "The Garland Plan" at a time the OIRA were reckoned as a Soviet front.

Challenor's SAS instincts, in my view, were probably somewhere near the money. There's more to this monkey than meets the eye so let him think he has you summed up. Bongo bongo bongo back to the Congo. If a wartime SAS man is revealing attitude put yer money on part of it being deception.

Was the half brick an engineering brick ? How much dust would that leave ?

I will give him the benefit of the doubt. It sniffs of a set up.

RIP

[rickcard]

Mike

My Squadron sergeant major was ex 22 SAS. He had served with SAS in 50s. Left Army at end of nine years service then served seven years in Police reaching rank of sergeant.

He was opposed to the amalgamation of forces and the centralization of police promotion criteria. The slippery slope to a Gestapo. So he resigned and rejoined the Colours. Re-presented for selection at hereford and gained entry to SAS a second time.

He did around 5 years with the regt before running into a point of law. He considered that an order he was given was unlawful and so refused it and that was OK. He requested RTU. And became a Squadron sergeant major with the Army helicopters charged to make soldiers of us lot (well he had to fail at something in his life).

He was a Mason. He was also the man who advised me not to tranbsfer early to long term reserve to join civvi police. Best advice I ever ignored. But his explanation of the meaning of independent Crown ministerial office (Constable) and the Constable Oath which reflects the Parable of the Talents. That was my guide. And it is from that start nearly 40 years ago I am now up against some of your oppos in Kent.