Land Rover Defenders

[the itinerant shrubber]

I've finally realised an ambition of mine and I'm buying a J reg L.R Defender at the end of the week.
I got it becouse it far better suits my lifestyle i.e carrying dogs,ferrets,manure,hay etc. and of course it's a diesel. The whole thing is bolted together so anyone with a ratchet set and a manual can tinker with it or even strip it down completly.It's the safest car on British roads and when all the other cars and so-called 4x4's are stuck or have destroyed themselves by going off road,the Defender will still be going.

Does anyone have any experience of these? I've never driven anything like this before and I'm looking for advice regarding using the diff and just using the right gears for the right situation when off road.
I dont think I'll be able to afford any off road courses in the near future when I've blown my wad on this beauty.

[tfx08]

Don't know much about Land Rovers, but does it include a winch? This might help you when ya get a bit stuck;)

[airkraft]

I was always told by people who do "off road " driving, that the best "off roader" was/is a Suzuki jeep (sj410/sj413). It would leave all LR`s in its wake. The reason I was told this was because I used to own one, and was always being asked if I wanted to sell it. They dont have a lot of room for passengers or luggage, but they will go over/through most stuff LR`s wont. They are also very very cheap to maintain, some even put deisel engines in theirs to add a bit more torque.

[dark skies]

Ive owned a few in the past being a J plate it should be a 200 tdi engine which means it will run happily on bio diesel, or straight vegetable oil
best bit of advice for using the gears off road is to keep the centre diff locked in mud/snow/ wet grass and use low range 1st gear for descending slopes.

Id would if were you tho invest in a halfday course at an off road centre and youll be truely amazed at what your defender can actually do offroad

[rydeon]

I've finally realised an ambition of mine and I'm buying a J reg L.R Defender at the end of the week.
I got it becouse it far better suits my lifestyle i.e carrying dogs,ferrets,manure,hay etc. and of course it's a diesel. The whole thing is bolted together so anyone with a ratchet set and a manual can tinker with it or even strip it down completly.It's the safest car on British roads and when all the other cars and so-called 4x4's are stuck or have destroyed themselves by going off road,the Defender will still be going.

Does anyone have any experience of these? I've never driven anything like this before and I'm looking for advice regarding using the diff and just using the right gears for the right situation when off road.
I dont think I'll be able to afford any off road courses in the near future when I've blown my wad on this beauty.

Drove one for 6 1/2 years in the army.

Brilliant bit of kit.

The army use the best version IMO which is the Landrover Wolf.
This is very hard to get hold of (the army don't like to let them go)
They come in TUL (Truck Utility Light, the equivilent of a LR 90) and TUM (Truck Utility Medium / 110).
2.5 TD engine is good and has plenty of power.
It doesn't rely on the battery for starting so running it in a post EMP world is no problem.
The 90 is short wheel based and the 110 is long wheel based.
For me personally I prefer the 110.
But the army versions of this (TUM) are usually in canvas, which sucks for security.
The long wheel base is however, excellent for extra stowage AND crucially you can sleep a full sized adult in the rear comfortably. Just throw a rollmat down and a sleeping back and there you are ready to go.
The side seats can be pulled up and pinned so more space is available.
In a pinch you can sleep in the front by padding out the handbrake gap area and lying across both seats. It's doable if you are tired out after driving.
There is a V8 version as well but they suck fuel, usually these ones are exported to other countries where the fuel is cheaper.
I always say go for a military landrover. They are tougher than the civilian varients AND have nice mods like headlight armour, rear rams on either side for protection and climbing into and out of the back. Water stowage and extra fuel stowage on either side. The list goes on.
Once you've got a good un' you won't want to let it go.
They aren't cheap. A good one will cost you about £3500 to £5000.
The newest ones (none military) have tons of interior bits which means if you are after stripping it down and shipping it then its a pain in the arse. But it still can be done.
The dash is nice and flat, so mounting things is usually a piece of cake.
Niggles are that the passengers seat is usually fixed (not on the newest ones) the drivers seat has a bit of leeway.

[the itinerant shrubber]

Ive owned a few in the past being a J plate it should be a 200 tdi engine which means it will run happily on bio diesel, or straight vegetable oil
best bit of advice for using the gears off road is to keep the centre diff locked in mud/snow/ wet grass and use low range 1st gear for descending slopes.

Id would if were you tho invest in a halfday course at an off road centre and youll be truely amazed at what your defender can actually do offroad
The engines been replaced by a TDI 300 disco. Is that still OK for biodiesel? I read somwhere thats its common practice to replace the Defender engine with a Discovery one becouse they have a bit more oopmh to them. Is this true? Not that I'm after oomph;I'm after it's off road abilities and practicality.

[1694]

Seen LRDs pull ploughs, and resque track'ers.

[dark skies]

The engines been replaced by a TDI 300 disco. Is that still OK for biodiesel? I read somwhere thats its common practice to replace the Defender engine with a Discovery one becouse they have a bit more oopmh to them. Is this true? Not that I'm after oomph;I'm after it's off road abilities and practicality.

its still the same you can happily use bio diesel in a 300tdi and vegetable oil . Ive got a 300tdi discovery and it runs happily on bio diesel you just need to change the diesel filter more frequently but they cost a few quid

[the itinerant shrubber]

its still the same you can happily use bio diesel in a 300tdi and vegetable oil . Ive got a 300tdi discovery and it runs happily on bio diesel you just need to change the diesel filter more frequently but they cost a few quid

I might start experimenting with veg oil eventually. It seems people start with a 10% mix with diesel and work up from there if there's no performance difference.

[resistance]

A good bit of kit the LR defender, i used to own one, i also had a 1990 VW vanagon syncro which i regret getting rid of even more:(

[none]

We used defender 90s at work ... my only problem with them is that there's no heat when the landy's not moving .... shitty in winter.

[jammer]

The heaters get really bunged up if you don't flush out the heater matrix with a hose every six months or so. A clean matrix and a rad muff should give you more than enough heat.

[the itinerant shrubber]

The gears are fucked at the moment. No reverse or 5th,although I knew it would eventually need looking at before I got it.

[jammer]

The gears are fucked at the moment. No reverse or 5th,although I knew it would eventually need looking at before I got it.

Remove the top of the box whilst still in the car and have a look at the 5th and reverse selectors, or could have snapped your layshaft, you will see this from above (with a bit of poking).

[rydeon]

Although I harp on about LRs I will be getting a 4 x 4 soon and I think it'll be one of the 'pocket' offroaders like a Suzuki Vitara. Not as hardcore, but a budget option and decent enough.
Reason being getting a military LR is nearly impossible these days. Unless you fancy a left-hand drive one from Germany then it's V8s or nothing I've found...

[jammer]

Why a military one?

[rydeon]

Why a military one?

EMP shielded, suspensions uprated, minimalist interiors - perfect for outdoors working, no carpets to get muddy, easier to clean.

Paint job is less conspicious in the wild.
Privacy in the back (usually no side-rear windows) so you can store all your gear out of sight.

You don't have a bunch of seats taking up space in the back which need removing. Just 2 swing seats (which swivel up and out of the way).
'Wolf' varient is turbo-charged diesel with plenty of power on tap.

It'll of been maintained and looked after by the REME workshops prior to being released onto the civilian market.

[the itinerant shrubber]

Remove the top of the box whilst still in the car and have a look at the 5th and reverse selectors, or could have snapped your layshaft, you will see this from above (with a bit of poking).

What is the box? Do you mean take off the rubber sleeve from the stick or the box that the stick goes into cos I dont think that comes off. I know you can see part of the gear box if you take off the hatch under the driver seat.
I dont know shit about cars if you hadnt guessed.

[jammer]

EMP shielded, suspensions uprated, minimalist interiors - perfect for outdoors working, no carpets to get muddy, easier to clean.

Paint job is less conspicious in the wild.
Privacy in the back (usually no side-rear windows) so you can store all your gear out of sight.

You don't have a bunch of seats taking up space in the back which need removing. Just 2 swing seats (which swivel up and out of the way).
'Wolf' varient is turbo-charged diesel with plenty of power on tap.

It'll of been maintained and looked after by the REME workshops prior to being released onto the civilian market.

You don't need to go ex-military for any of that, mine was stock, no carpets, no rear seats, no rear windows etc. it was a farmer that had it before me. I painted mine with military anti-radar paint (using a roller).

there are 23 variants of the W.O.L.F. (wheel on left face) but all special equipment is removed prior to civillian sales (recycled).
The military keep them as basic as possible so that amoung other reasons they are easier to repair, strip-down, and transfer parts. They are kept as "disposable" as possible. you buy an ex-military Landy and you can be pretty sure it has been hammered.

You can easily uprate a Landy to be far superior to anything the military use.

[dreamweaver]

You don't need to go ex-military for any of that

Even the EMP shielding?

[rydeon]

You don't need to go ex-military for any of that, mine was stock, no carpets, no rear seats, no rear windows etc. it was a farmer that had it before me. I painted mine with military anti-radar paint (using a roller).

there are 23 variants of the W.O.L.F. (wheel on left face) but all special equipment is removed prior to civillian sales (recycled).
The military keep them as basic as possible so that amoung other reasons they are easier to repair, strip-down, and transfer parts. They are kept as "disposable" as possible. you buy an ex-military Landy and you can be pretty sure it has been hammered.

You can easily uprate a Landy to be far superior to anything the military use.

Yes they are stripped out in the UK and yes the farmers LRs are basic ones.

If you buy the L/Rs at Monchengladbach in Germany you can get the full military spec before they get shipped to the UK. :)

I don't doubt that you can upgrade them again but sourcing the parts is a pain and will take you eons IMHO.

I was being a bit 'artistic' with the EMP shielding, the L/R will continue to run in a nuclear fall-out war cause the diesel engine doesn't need continuous stream from a battery.
Diesel cars are a bit different they use electrics that are more 'refined' and fancy with more influence on the engine management chip.

[hunter77]

Yes they are stripped out in the UK and yes the farmers LRs are basic ones.

If you buy the L/Rs at Monchengladbach in Germany you can get the full military spec before they get shipped to the UK. :)

I don't doubt that you can upgrade them again but sourcing the parts is a pain and will take you eons IMHO.

I was being a bit 'artistic' with the EMP shielding, the L/R will continue to run in a nuclear fall-out war cause the diesel engine doesn't need continuous stream from a battery.
Diesel cars are a bit different they use electrics that are more 'refined' and fancy with more influence on the engine management chip.

an old ladny should have a very basic ecu if one at all, i would go for an older model easier to repair youself without the help of a modern computer code reader

[rydeon]

an old ladny should have a very basic ecu if one at all, i would go for an older model easier to repair youself without the help of a modern computer code reader

A good question, I'm not sure when the chips came into use, possibly early 1990s. Emp shielded, more than likely.

[the itinerant shrubber]

Yes they are stripped out in the UK and yes the farmers LRs are basic ones.

If you buy the L/Rs at Monchengladbach in Germany you can get the full military spec before they get shipped to the UK. :)

I don't doubt that you can upgrade them again but sourcing the parts is a pain and will take you eons IMHO.

I was being a bit 'artistic' with the EMP shielding, the L/R will continue to run in a nuclear fall-out war cause the diesel engine doesn't need continuous stream from a battery.
Diesel cars are a bit different they use electrics that are more 'refined' and fancy with more influence on the engine management chip.

I think you have to have an older Diesel engine for it to be EMP proof. Mines a J reg TDI and it broke down once when the electric loom to the engine wore away so I know mine isnt EMP proof,although I think it is fairly easy to convert if you know what you're doing.

[ownoiz]

Most diesels need a constant 12V supply to the injection pump when the engine is running to power up the stop solenoid. When the stop solenoid does not have a 12V feed, the injection pump stops pumping and the engine stops.

The stop solenoid is what turns the engine off when you turn off the ignition, otherwise you wouldnt be able to stop the engine.

Old diesels had cables instead of the stop solenoid, you had to pull on the cable to turn the injection pump off. If you dont pull the cable, you cant turn them off once running, even if you disconnect the battery.

So the point is, on many diesel cars 90's and older, even those with no ECU, while they would still in theory contine to run with no electrics or battery feed, the simple stop solenoid will let you down and stall the engine.

If you unscrew the stop solenoid and remove the plunger, and refit it WITH NO PLUNGER, then you will see what happens, once you start the engine, it wont stop. You can stall the engine with the clutch - only way to stop it.

Of course for a diesel to run with no battery the fuel pump thet gets fuel to the injection pump must also be mechanical (driven off the engine) not electric.

So if you want a diesel that you cant kill, first you need to mod the stop solenoid to cable type, or remove the plunger inside and stop the engine by stalling it everytime lol, and it must have a mechanical fuel pump.

How do i know some of this shit, I worked at BAE ( british aerospace ) for a while, they had an operation in Adelaide with contracts for Australian army tanks, and defenders, 6 wheel drive, 3 axle army spec. They were imported from UK with bare minimum and then modified and outfitted in Adelaide to Australian army spec. The vehicles had to be bulletproof and underwent rigourous inspections before they were approved for duty.
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"98% of us will die at some point in our lives" - Will Ferrell - Talladega Nights

[ownoiz]

I think you have to have an older Diesel engine for it to be EMP proof. Mines a J reg TDI and it broke down once when the electric loom to the engine wore away so I know mine isnt EMP proof,although I think it is fairly easy to convert if you know what you're doing.

This can and does happen even on non ECU diesels if it happens to be the stop solenoid wire that is cut or worn through.

Typically the stop solenoid wire runs 12V feed from the ignition switch ON position inside the cabin, thru the firewall and to the injection pump.

Basic rule of thumb with many old diesel engines pre ECU, that also have a mechanical fuel lift pump to get fuel to the injector pump, then the only 2 things electrical that can prevent the engine from starting and running are the starter motor and injector pump stop solenoid.
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__________________
"98% of us will die at some point in our lives" - Will Ferrell - Talladega Nights

[googly]

If you're gonna run this on biodiesel then there is a few things to consider!
Bio will attack natural rubber, so keep an eye on any rubber fuel lines.
Bio will clean out petrol diesel (known as dino) so this process may produce sludge in the fuel tank, so make sure you have easy access to the sender unit so cleaning the tank can be done without dropping it.
Make sure you have plenty of spare fuel filters in the vehicle, so if the engine stalls and becomes difficult to start you can change the filter by the road side.
And make sure the bio you're buying is bio and not veggy oil thinned down with white spirit, or you'll end up needing a new injection pump. Of course you can make bio yourself but thats not for the faint hearted.

As for running on veggy oil, make sure the engine has a bosch injection pump, cos other makes don't like the thickness of the oil.

Finally if you decide to collect waste veggy oil from your local chippy, you DO NOT NEED A 'WASTE CARRIER LICENSE' if its for personal use, and you don't pay any duty if you plan on using less than 2500 litres a year!!!

[ownoiz]

As for running on veggy oil, make sure the engine has a bosch injection pump, cos other makes don't like the thickness of the oil.

So true.

British Lucas injection pump + veg oil = lots of little broken pieces :eek:
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__________________
"98% of us will die at some point in our lives" - Will Ferrell - Talladega Nights