A must watch on bbc1

[emma royds]

Panorama BBC1 8.30 p.m tonight. Documentary taking a look inside scientology, I saw a preview of this, and it looks like compulsive viewing.

[hagbard_celine]

It does indeed, especially as it makes the seasoned reporter John Sweeney desolve into a fit of rage. I've posted a link to the clip on the Religion board. It will raise the viewing figures if nothing else!

What is it with Scientology? It seems to be like human cloning: you're either passionately for it or passionately against it.

[emma royds]

It does indeed, especially as it makes the seasoned reporter John Sweeney desolve into a fit of rage. I've posted a link to the clip on the Religion board. It will raise the viewing figures if nothing else!

What is it with Scientology? It seems to be like human cloning: you're either passionately for it or passionately against it.

I like some of the ideas of scientology, those that teach you to be positive and take control of your life, but I don't like the secrecy and the fact that there appears to be a Hierachy, that being the rich and famous appear to be treated better than those of lesser status. I am open minded and will be scrutinising this documentary, the BBC are usually good at steering people away from the truth as we saw in their recent conspiracy file documentaries. They usually start with positives and end up turning you round to see only the negatives, they are very clever at that. I think scientology has always had a bad press, possibly justifiably so if not least due to there secrecy and use of high powered lawyers in defending thier views. But I never trust the media's views on these type of issues, and think that maybe scientology is not as bad as it is made out to be. In fact maybe their ideas are a threat to the illuminati.

[hagbard_celine]

I like some of the ideas of scientology, those that teach you to be positive and take control of your life, but I don't like the secrecy and the fact that there appears to be a Hierachy, that being the rich and famous appear to be treated better than those of lesser status. I am open minded and will be scrutinising this documentary, the BBC are usually good at steering people away from the truth as we saw in their recent conspiracy file documentaries. They usually start with positives and end up turning you round to see only the negatives, they are very clever at that. I think scientology has always had a bad press, possibly justifiably so if not least due to there secrecy and use of high powered lawyers in defending thier views. But I never trust the media's views on these type of issues, and think that maybe scientology is not as bad as it is made out to be. In fact maybe their ideas are a threat to the illuminati.

I try to avoid Ad Hominems, but I'm suspicious of L Ron Hubbard, the writer who created Scientology. He was part of Aleister Crowley's network in America. He used to perform magick rituals with the magician and rocket scientist, Jack Parsons. Not that this is always a bad thing, but power like that can be abused and the temptation must have been there for them to abuse it.

But you're right, a lot of their philosophy sounds very warm and wise. I remember when the media were discussing Tom Cruise's wedding, they made it sound almost like pagan Earth-worship. Not that I'm going to pop down to my local temple and convert!

[hagbard_celine]

Well now I've heard one side of the story. If I believed everything the BBC told me I'd be very anti-scientology by now. I've heard the case for the prosecution, now to look at the defence.

One thing the scientilogists say that accords with me is their attitude to psychology. I may not share their entire assessment, but I too am very dubious about shrinks.

That E-meter looks and sounds familiar. Have any of you read "The Mars Records"? It sounds very like the device that Stephanie Relphe uses when interviewing her husband.

[chattanova]

Panorama BBC1 8.30 p.m tonight. Documentary taking a look inside scientology, I saw a preview of this, and it looks like compulsive viewing.

I read about this to day in the paper, John Travolta is trying to stop BBC to send it:confused:

[auron]

I wouldn't trust the BBC to tell me the time in a room full of clocks.

[azure]

Haven't seen the documentary, but the fact is that Scientology is absolutely no different than any of the other cults out there. Danger, Will Robinson, danger.

Part 1/9 Scientology leader David Miscavige on ABC Nightline - YouTube
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xDPkn9LX0rU

http://xenu.net/
http://www.xenutv.com/

[emma royds]

Haven't seen the documentary, but the fact is that Scientology is absolutely no different than any of the other cults out there. Danger, Will Robinson, danger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWUasKX3FZE
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xDPkn9LX0rU

http://xenu.net/
http://www.xenutv.com/

I must just ask a simple question. Where is your evidence that scientology is a dangerous cult? and don't you think if it is worthy of such a label, then other religious groups like evangelical christians should also be deemed cults. Where did you get your view on scientolgy? The Media? evangelical christians? or do you have a more personal account of how you have come to your conclusion on scientologists and their religion. Let me make it clear I am not in anyway defending scientology, but we are manipulated by the media and other parties to have the view that scientology is a bad cult, when whilst it is true there are certain dodgy aspects about it that mainly revovle around secrecy, I feel they have had a hard time compared to other religions such as the evangelist movement which could also be deemed dodgy especially the U.S branch.


Don't believe everything the media tells you. Don't allow your thoughts to be moulded by the media.

[emma royds]

I try to avoid Ad Hominems, but I'm suspicious of L Ron Hubbard, the writer who created Scientology. He was part of Aleister Crowley's network in America. He used to perform magick rituals with the magician and rocket scientist, Jack Parsons. Not that this is always a bad thing, but power like that can be abused and the temptation must have been there for them to abuse it.

But you're right, a lot of their philosophy sounds very warm and wise. I remember when the media were discussing Tom Cruise's wedding, they made it sound almost like pagan Earth-worship. Not that I'm going to pop down to my local temple and convert!


Interesting, I did not know about his connection with Crowley, that would certainly explain his ability to attract so many followers, as we know Crowley still manages to attract so many followers despite the fact that he has been dead for so long. Very few people seem to have this magnetic power even after their deaths. Crowley and Hubbard are two such people one obviously sinister, the other possibly so. Of course not all people with this kind of magnetic attraction are bad. One example is the King (Elvis the pelvis Presley) He still attracts the younger generation as well as people who remember him when he was alive.

Question: Is Elvis a cult?

[emma royds]

I missed the bloody contender on ITV4 because of this program, I'm bloody livid. It was O.K but I love the contender, and I missed it because of this. Damn! Double Damn!.

[bigus_dickus]

Where did you get your view on scientolgy? The Media? evangelical christians? or do you have a more personal account of how you have come to your conclusion on scientologists and their religion.

L. Ron Hubbard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scientology

Main article: Scientology

In mid-1952, Hubbard expanded Dianetics into a secular philosophy which he called Scientology. That year, Hubbard also married his third wife, Mary Sue Whipp, to whom he remained married for the rest of his life. With Mary Sue, Hubbard fathered four more children— Diana, Quentin, Suzette and Arthur —over the next six years.

In December 1953, Hubbard declared Scientology a religion and the first Church of Scientology was founded in Camden, New Jersey. He moved to England at about the same time, and during the remainder of the 1950s he supervised the growing organization from an office in London. In 1959, he bought Saint Hill Manor near the Sussex town of East Grinstead, a Georgian manor house owned by the Maharajah of Jaipur. This became the world headquarters of Scientology.

Hubbard claimed to have conducted years of intensive research into the nature of human existence; to describe his findings, he developed an elaborate vocabulary with many newly coined terms.[77] He codified a set of Scientology axioms and an "applied religious philosophy" that promised to improve the condition of the human spirit, which he called the "Thetan."[78] The bulk of Scientology focuses on the "rehabilitation" of the thetan.

Hubbard's followers believed his "technology" gave them access to their past lives, the traumas of which led to failures in the present unless they were audited. By this time, Hubbard had introduced a biofeedback device to the auditing process, which he called a "Hubbard Electropsychometer" or "E-meter." It was invented in the 1940s by a chiropractor and Dianetics enthusiast named Volney Mathison. This machine is used by Scientologists in auditing to evaluate "mental masses" surrounding the thetan. These "masses" are claimed to impede the thetan from realizing its full potential.

Hubbard claimed a good deal of physical disease was psychosomatic, and one who, like himself, had attained the enlightened state of "clear" and become an "Operating Thetan" would be relatively disease free. According to biographers, Hubbard went to great lengths to suppress his recourse to modern medicine, attributing symptoms to attacks by malicious forces, both spiritual and earthly. Hubbard insisted humanity was imperiled by such forces, which were the result of negative memories (or "engrams") stored in the unconscious or "reactive" mind, some carried by the immortal thetans for billions of years. Thus, Hubbard claimed, the only possibility for spiritual salvation was a concerted effort to "clear the planet", that is, to bring the benefits of Scientology to all people everywhere, and attack all forces, social and spiritual, hostile to the interests of the movement.

Church members were expected to pay fixed donation rates for courses, auditing, books and E-meters, all of which proved very lucrative for the Church, which paid emoluments directly to Hubbard and his family.[1] In a case fought by the Founding Church of Scientology of Washington, D.C. over its tax-exempt status (revoked in 1958 because of these emoluments) the findings of fact in the case included that Hubbard had personally received over $108,000 from the Church and affiliates over a four-year period, over and above the percentage of gross income (usually 10%) he received from Church-affiliated organizations.[79] However, Hubbard denied such emoluments many times in writing, proclaiming he never received any money from the Church.

right now, it is a corporation, that functions in a 'pyramid' structure hierarchy like other belief systems of its kind.

they are no different from jehova's witlesses..

if you want a nice good religion, that does not demand your payment to buy your soul, take a look at this one:

Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there are people who are willing to believe anything that gives their ego its necessary hope for immortality.

[stevenstoolberg]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-126281853779690652&q=genre%3ADOCUMENTARY+duration%3Along

[john white]

Ah good old Scientology, another illuminati pet project, in the mould of the mormons or jehovah's witnesses, but with (IMO) a far more colourful history

You see, I consider that in the early days, L Ron Hubbard was playing the illuminati at their own game and did rather well... up to a point: and within the limitations of his own highly flawed (greed/lust for power) character. Eventually he was muscling in on the Illumie mind control scams so well that he found himself blind sided everywhere he went and had to retreat to the high seas: then he essentially cut the illumies in on the deal and in the last few years/after his death, Scientology was brought into the orthodox babylonian brotherhood fold. Now, its become a polished and potent vehicle for the furtherance of human control: especially with its startling ability to re-write its own history

Really, Scientology is a classic secret society. I see this evidenced particularily in its attitude to psychiatry. one of the few areas I agree with Scientology is in its scorn for big pharma drugs, but they have taken this a whole step further through linking and demonising psychiatry to the nazi concentration camps and the holocaust (more illumie efforts)...with the express aim of destroying psychiatry

Why is this important? Becuase its pulling up the stepladder on the knowledge stream from which scientology itself derives its power: Classic brotherhood behaviour!

After all, what else did Hubbard do but strip out the mechanics of psychiatry, give it some quasi-mystical spin and then sell it to people? What difference is there between massive amounts of time and money requried to become "clear" through scientology and massive amounts of time and money required to become "healthy" through psychiatry? Another blimmin opposame!

Truthseekers should of course been wrily amused to spot the PRS the "church" pulled off near the end of the programme...

[pierre_jean]

The church of scientology is a sect which has nothing to do with a spiritual or philosophical research. I knew a person in charge scientologist. Its targets were clearly destabilized people, lost, easy to handle. He was owner of a bar. Easy! :D

[john white]

Quite a lot of chat around the web after this panorama

After making my post above, I put this together for another (MSM) forum, covers the same ground a little but thought I'd share anyway

Lots of good comments in this thread

Is Scientology a Religion? Is Scientology a Cult? What's the difference? Well given that a religion is simply what a cult evolves into when it acquires enough temporal power (minds and cash) that it becomes a power block within the state, Scientology appears to be in transition between the two: but to my mind Scientology even closer resembles a secret society

It has a hierarchical pyramidical structure, layers of initiation, obsessive compulsive authoritarianism.... it may very well have started as L Ron Hubbard's joke... equally it appears to me to be L Ron muscling in on the scam's run by "the big boys": but its not any longer, Hubbard’s been dead for 20 years, and here is an organisation not only with someone in charge, but with a very definite agenda: and old story, ever more increasing power and control

Its in the attitude to psychiatry that Scientology betrays itself as a classic mystery school secret society. Although I might agree with the notion that the vast majority of big pharma psychiatric drugs are an unnecessary barbarity, I do so based on the tradition of Jung and Laing: Scientology, in contrast, is out to destroy psychiatry, as evidenced by its LA exhibition apportioning blame for the holocaust to psychiatry, its practitioners and their theories

What happens when we compare the two?

Scientology: initial encounter: get diagnosed with serious personality problems. Solution: pay for scientology courses. Keep paying for courses, go up the "levels": reach a high enough level, be declared "clear" (free of the problem scientology told you you had in the first place): minimum many years and $200,000, though can be a lot more

Psychiatry: initial encounter: get diagnosed with serious personality problems. Solution: pay for psychiatric therapy. Keep paying for therapy, release repressed issues: have enough therapy, be declared "healthy" (free of the problem psychiatry told you you had in the first place): minimum many years and $200,000, though can be a lot more

The two look like opposites, but are actually opposames

What else, at its heart, is Scientology but the mechanics of psychiatry stripped out, given a spin with a bit of mysticism and resold?

Which explains why Scientology wants to destroy psychiatry so badly: it wants to remove from general consumption the knowledge stream on which its power is based

[edelweiss pirate]

That's a good article...

Didn't Hubbard say 'If you want to get incredibly rich start your own religion'.

There's definitely enough dirt out there on scientology to leave most people without any doubts... There really is no group out there to join, people are generally pretty silly... You put a group of them together, you get an exponential increase in silliness (present company excepted 'course...)

[hagbard_celine]

Interesting, I did not know about his connection with Crowley, that would certainly explain his ability to attract so many followers, as we know Crowley still manages to attract so many followers despite the fact that he has been dead for so long. Very few people seem to have this magnetic power even after their deaths. Crowley and Hubbard are two such people one obviously sinister, the other possibly so. Of course not all people with this kind of magnetic attraction are bad. One example is the King (Elvis the pelvis Presley) He still attracts the younger generation as well as people who remember him when he was alive.

Question: Is Elvis a cult?

Crowley was an amazing character. Original copies of his books are now worth £1000's. But when he first published them he couldn't even sell them as remainder stock. Apparently his old house, Boleskine near Loch Ness is still haunted, but it wasn't before he moved in!

Another strange religion is the Kaballah Centre, another favourite of hollywood stars like Madonna and Demi Moore. You can spot a Kaballah Centre believer by the loop of red string that they wear around their wrist. The string costs $400 each because it comes from the Tomb of Rachel! But an investigative reporter actually visited the Tomb of Rachel in Israel and found that the bloke there was giving away the string for free!

The best thing to do if you want to believe in a religion is invent your own! My religion is a minority one because it has only one believer: Me! It goes onto the "others" list on the census, along with Jedi and Bollockism!

[emma royds]

Crowley was an amazing character. Original copies of his books are now worth £1000's. But when he first published them he couldn't even sell them as remainder stock. Apparently his old house, Boleskine near Loch Ness is still haunted, but it wasn't before he moved in!

Another strange religion is the Kaballah Centre, another favourite of hollywood stars like Madonna and Demi Moore. You can spot a Kaballah Centre believer by the loop of red string that they wear around their wrist. The string costs $400 each because it comes from the Tomb of Rachel! But an investigative reporter actually visited the Tomb of Rachel in Israel and found that the bloke there was giving away the string for free!

The best thing to do if you want to believe in a religion is invent your own! My religion is a minority one because it has only one believer: Me! It goes onto the "others" list on the census, along with Jedi and Bollockism!

The founder of the kaballah centre was a former salesman, He and his family are more sinister than scientolgists. They were selling bottled water that had apparently been blessed and called kaballah water, but it turned out this water was shipped from a U.K supplier of spring water. The family has been accused of brainwashing it's members and using black magic against it's critics. Conmen will try all avenues in thier pursuit of making a few bucks.

[synergy777]

oh come on, have you read dianetics, watched battlefield earth. its sitchin esque annunaki slave species crap, its a bad sci fi novel at best. as for a religous doctrine, its pure jokes. i feel sorry for the scientologists, and their "star" converts.

its a great business, in fact old ron l hubbard, friend of aleistair crowley,parsons etc, even stated, the best way to make money is to start a religion. truly was a prophet,lol

[bigus_dickus]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Scientology Vs South Park - YouTube

Some crazy scientology stuff - YouTube

crazy shit and funny too ;)