PDA

View Full Version : Ex-police chief questioned on freemasonry


ban freekmasons
23-09-2008, 04:02 PM
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2008/09/23/ex-police-chief-questioned-in-bungalow-invasion-trial-91466-21877778/

Ex-police chief questioned in bungalow invasion trial
Sep 23 2008 by Matt Aplin, Western Mail

THE former Chief Constable of Dyfed-Powys yesterday denied being a Freemason under questioning in court.

Terence Grange, who retired last November when it had emerged that he had paid for private meals on a force credit card, appeared at Carmarthen Magistrates’ Court to give evidence against two women accused of barricading themselves inside his house and refusing to leave, claiming squatters rights.

One of the defendants, Lady Lesley Cooper, defending herself, asked Mr Grange: “Mr Grange, are you a Freemason?”

To which he replied: “No.”

Lady Cooper, claiming to have hired a private detective to investigate Mr Grange, then asked: “Not since 1981?”

To which Mr Grange replied: “I have never been a Freemason. I have never been invited to be one.”

Lady Cooper, 48, and her daughter Kyra face charges of causing criminal damage on April 26 to furniture inside Mr Grange’s detached bungalow in Meinciau, near Kidwelly.

It is alleged they damaged a £500 dresser by moving it and causing damage to a wall by moving furniture.

Ms Cooper, 26, from Tumble, is also charged with assault for allegedly trapping an estate agent’s arm in the bungalow’s front door.

The mother and daughter, along with Ms Cooper’s 11-day-old baby and another man Meirion Bowen arranged a viewing at Mr Grange’s bungalow, under a false name – Lynne Stratton – after the bungalow, valued at between £210,000 and £260,000, was put on the market following Mr Grange’s sudden retirement.

He now lives permanently in Bristol with his wife Pat.

The court heard that Mr Bowen asked estate agent Martin Richards to go outside of the house with him to check the drains.

While outside, Mr Richards told the court, he heard the front door slam behind him.

When he tried to get back in, he said, the door was slammed shut trapping his arm above the wrist.

Lady Cooper and Ms Cooper then refused to leave for two hours, negotiating with police until an officer broke through the rear of the home.

Lady Cooper and Mr Bowen are affiliated to a small group known as Stand your Ground, which distributes e-mails alleging corruption among several groups, especially the police, government and the judiciary.

Chief Inspector Steven Griffiths, of Dyfed-Powys Police told the court yesterday that among these complaints was an allegation that Dyfed-Powys police had failed to investigate paedophile officers among their ranks.

But Lady Cooper, who runs an animal sanctuary at Bancffosfelen told the court that her decision to enter Mr Grange’s house was not related to Stand your Ground and was, she said, “an act of desperation” borne from police failure over six years to deal with the grievance she and her daughter had relating to a “racist thug”.

She was not allowed to elaborate.

In the witness box Mr Grange said: “I know vaguely of [Lady] Cooper but have never had any personal dealings with her.

“I think she has been involved with a group of people who are regular e-mailers to Dyfed-Powys Police.

“They had a variety of names they called themselves, because other access to the force was cut off. They just changed their name.

“I think they had all been defrauded by somebody or other. Stand Your Ground were e-mailing on a daily basis for years.”

Mr Grange, who had a salary of more than £120,000 as Chief Constable, explained how he lived permanently at Meinciau but would invariably spend around two days a week in London and roughly every other week with his wife in Bristol, benefiting from a 25% single occupancy discount on his council tax.

Mr Grange said: “I think you were making a political statement. It doesn’t matter. You entered my house under false pretences.”

Lady Cooper and Miss Cooper deny assaulting the estate agent and claim the furniture in Mr Grange’s house was damaged by police officers when entering the house to arrest them.

The trial is expected to end today.

Classic example of why we need a public register of Masons

keystone
23-09-2008, 04:09 PM
Classic example of why we need a public register of MasonsHuh? How on earth do you manage to put such spin on this story and still be able ..................... Oh sorry - just fallen in - it's a joke isn't it?

Tell me why haven't you responded to my thread on A Public Register Of Freemasons?

element
23-09-2008, 04:13 PM
Keystone, you are just wasting his valueble time again.;) :D:D

jacob sladder
23-09-2008, 05:10 PM
So, you post a story about a Policeman who is NOT a Freemason.
What on earth for?
:confused::confused:

axel
23-09-2008, 05:12 PM
I am so confused. What?

keystone
23-09-2008, 06:05 PM
Keystone, you are just waisting his valueble time again.;) :D:DOops - sorry. :o I'll do better in future.:D

keystone
23-09-2008, 06:06 PM
I am so confused. What?Exactly.;)

speculative
23-09-2008, 06:21 PM
"are you a mason?"
"no"

"Aha! got you, you mason you!"

yep logic flies straight out the window and into the local bull field!

trallwmfarm
26-09-2008, 10:37 AM
Why would the posting on Terry Grange be a joke ?
Can you also show that he isnt a mason alongside the racist who has had the ear of a swansea court ?
No you cannot. Thats why I hired a private detective who is a mason.
I would be happy to speak to anyone who seriously can shed light on the welsh masons

trallwmfarm
26-09-2008, 10:39 AM
Huh? How on earth do you manage to put such spin on this story and still be able ..................... Oh sorry - just fallen in - it's a joke isn't it?

Tell me why haven't you responded to my thread on A Public Register Of Freemasons?

[QUOTE=trallwmfarm;525451]Why would the posting on Terry Grange be a joke ?
Can you also show that he isnt a mason alongside the racist who has had the ear of a swansea court ?
No you cannot. Thats why I hired a private detective who is a mason.
I would be happy to speak to anyone who seriously can shed light on the welsh masons.
Lady L Cooper

keystone
29-09-2008, 11:30 AM
Why would the posting on Terry Grange be a joke ?Because that's Joes little game. He finds something, twists it around to the point of incredulity to suit his own agenda. The ex-CC was asked a question under oath. If he lied he deserves to be pilloried for it.

Can you also show that he isnt a mason alongside the racist who has had the ear of a swansea court ? No you cannot.No of course I can't - can you show he is?

Thats why I hired a private detective who is a mason.Well if you have definitive proof that he is perhaps you could share it - then perhaps Joes post will ceases to be a joke and can be taken seriously. Particularly as if the PI IS a mason and he has given you the data you appear to be claiming (otherwise you wouldn't have asked the Ex-CC the question I'm guessing) then that kindsa shoots down all the arguments about masons sticking together whatever doesn't it? Anyway you didn't need to hire a PI - wasted your money. You could have looked in the yearbook of the province of which you think he is a member. There not secret and plenty of these sculling about on ebay from time to time.

I would be happy to speak to anyone who seriously can shed light on the welsh masons.To what end? I have a feeling in my water this has little to do with the court case.

keystone
04-10-2008, 09:30 AM
Bump for Lady Lesley to rejoin the conversation she started.

mike martin
06-10-2008, 11:37 PM
Why would the posting on Terry Grange be a joke ?
Can you also show that he isnt a mason alongside the racist who has had the ear of a swansea court ?
No you cannot. Thats why I hired a private detective who is a mason.
I would be happy to speak to anyone who seriously can shed light on the welsh masons

Why would the posting on Terry Grange be a joke ?
Can you also show that he isnt a mason alongside the racist who has had the ear of a swansea court ?
No you cannot. Thats why I hired a private detective who is a mason.
I would be happy to speak to anyone who seriously can shed light on the welsh masons.
Lady L Cooper

Hi Lady Cooper,
I've had a read through a lot of the related postings on your BLOG and I do sympathise, you appear to have gone through hell and highwater.

Grange is not and has not been a Freemason. That won't help you at all but ce la guerre. The person whom you hired has spun you a line and he probably isn't a Mason either. It sounds like your Private Tec has sent you off on a tangent which of course would not help your case.

The whole Masonic paranoia thing tends to detract from real crimes that are occurring that have absolutely no link to Freemasonry which the authorities are able to check by official application to the Grand Lodge. The problem is by interlacing it with a clear case of Police incompetence you are muddying the waters.

I do hope you get get to evict your "tenant", surely non-payment of rent is enough cause to do so.

Mike

diamond dogs
06-10-2008, 11:41 PM
I think the moral of the story is...he wouldn't have got to court in the first instance if he was a mason :rolleyes:

mike martin
07-10-2008, 01:03 AM
I think the moral of the story is...he wouldn't have got to court in the first instance if he was a mason :rolleyes:

That's not what I meant, he would have gone to Court regardless, especially as he was a Prosecution witness against Lady C for tresspass etc.

The problem is that Lady C cross examined him and during that questioning clearly made something of the alleged Masonic connection, as it was highlighted in the story. I feel sure that she must have asked more pertinent questions about his incompetence and blase attitude about what was going on (with this Selwyn Roberts character) but they have been swept under the carpet in favour of reporting what I called "Masonic paranoia" which is much better reading.

Grange had already "retired" in disgrace last year because of his inappropriate use of his Police PC and credt card with a woman.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3880258.ece

Mike