Derren Brown "Messiah"

[john lydon]

Derren Brown The so called Messiah 1 of 8 - YouTube

Watched this last night. Old show, but still worth looking at. We focus upon and accept the information that best suits our current belief system, when we should be scrutinising every last detail of it. Including that presented by Derren Brown.

Derren Brown: Messiah - Channel 4
The controversial, award-winning psychological illusionist Derren Brown returns to Channel 4 with a brand new one-off special. In a departure from the formats of Russian Roulette and The Séance, this documentary-styled one-hour film sees Derren in America attempting to raise questions about the validity of certain religious and spiritual belief systems; belief systems that people are encouraged to base their lives upon - such as new-age faiths and mainstream Christianity. Can he get certain authority figures to endorse him as the real thing?

The precise content of the programme, darker in tone than his other specials, is being kept under wraps but promises to be provocative, insightful and entertaining as Derren takes on a number of different identities to examine how we are able to believe unquestioningly in an idea just because it comes from someone in a position of power and authority.

As Derren explains: "I approach influential figures at the top of their field and demonstrate to each of them an ability I have which is somehow proof to them of my talents in that particular field. I allow them to decide how much they are going to endorse it and embrace it. If, at any point they ask me if this is some sort of trick I will confess and tell them. The aim is to get pledges of support".

He continues: "We so often take for granted the information we receive from writers, preachers and public speakers and we are encouraged to make life decisions on what they tell us - but what if we are relying on false information?!"

He adds: "It's not a debunking show. I'm not interested in tearing down anyone's beliefs. I'm just interested in questioning them".



Q&A with Derren on Messiah
Q: How would you describe the programme?
Derren Brown: It's a personal journey for me, quite a dark journey. It's a documentary styled show where I go to America and meet some influential people behind certain belief-systems that people are encouraged to base their lives upon. Two targets are new-age beliefs and mainstream Christianity. Using my techniques and showmanship can I get these people who are responsible for the beliefs of hundreds of thousands of people, to endorse me as being the real thing? I approach these people under different pseudonyms, demonstrating to each of them an ability I have which is somehow proof to them of my abilities in that particular field. I allow them to decide how much they are going to endorse it and embrace it. If at any point they say to me this is some sort of trick I will confess and tell them.

Q: Why have you chosen to make this programme?
DB: I think one of the interesting challenges for me in what I do is to try and raise questions rather than provide the answers. I've found the idea of raising questions much more interesting and powerful than trying to force my opinions on anyone - so with that as a background I feel very strongly that belief-systems that limit us in any way should be questioned. Belief-systems can be very beneficial of course. But when we're being asked to make life-decisions based on the information coming from a psychic, or a preacher, or an author or teacher, then that strikes me as something that is worth checking and really worth looking at. Is that information credible? Where is that information coming from? I think that's something really worth questioning especially when there is a huge potential for fraud and charlatanism.

Q: What would you say to those who may accuse you of mocking genuine belief systems?
DB: The agenda of this show is only to raise questions. People are not mocked or made to look stupid.

Q: You used to be a Christian. How does that conflict or not conflict with what you do in the show?
DB: Around the same time of me coming out of Christianity I had already started performing. I slowly realized that true belief of any kind - Christians, new-agers, committed cynics - all fall prey to a similar circular, self-fulfilling logic. I saw that although my faith was culturally endorsed, it didn't stand up to any more scrutiny than the wackiest new-age belief.

In the end what it boils down to is if things make us feel good then we believe in them; we take them on board. There's nothing wrong with that. That's kind of what we do as human beings. We're very suggestible around authority figures and if an authority figure tells us things then we tend to believe them and a month later we're coming out with those same opinions as if they were our own. It's absolutely part of what makes us human but equally part of what makes us human is the ability to recognize that as a pattern and question it; and that's what I hope underpins the programme. There will be people out there, who like me, are already very skeptical of the belief systems I question. But I'd be delighted if the show nudged some people into a more questioning frame of mind, if they don't arrive at the same conclusions as me.

Q: We shouldn't really believe then that you're the Messiah?
DB: The purpose of that rather bold title is that I am clearly not the Messiah but could somebody set themselves up as one if they wanted to?

Q: Do we see that happen in the show?
DB: You have to watch it and see.

[kweli]

Thanks for posting, are you the real John Lydon? lol :D

I caught bits of this last night.. what I saw was indeed very interesting, wish I'd given it my full attention now.

btw.. welcome on board. :)

[chris]

I've seen that before...It bring a very good lesson of discernment. Not that I will get conned by a psychic but there are many people like this in all kinds of fields which you must be wary of.

[norton]

love DERREN!! he shows how easily we, as people can be manipulated and esp messiah how people are prepared to believe anything if it furthers their own belief, rather than ask questions.

[norton]

p.s can't stand john edward and that british tw@t derek akorah i would go so far as to call him a bona fide c*nt (basically, i know someone who went to see derek live and he told this pregnant woman, that basically she is going to give birth to the messiah!! even if it was true who would want that type of responsibilty, surely 'god' would let them know when they were ready. super c*nt)

if anyone caught derrens live show 'mind reader' that showed how these psychics actually do it. it is impressive, but they no more talk to the dead than i do have a conversation with a turd

[john lydon]

Cheers!

What I found fascinating about this expose of Brown's is our lack of discernability when we're presented with information that fits within our already established belief system, which was clearly the whole point of the show. We want to find the "proof" that we are justified in our beliefs, so we are drawn to this "proof", many times ignoring both reason and logic. "Proof" being nothing more than that which confirms our already established opinion.

How many of us are truly "thinking outside of the box"?

I like Derren's shows as I like my beliefs to be challenged.

[chris]

Here's another...

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[john lydon]

p.s can't stand john edward and that british tw@t derek akorah i would go so far as to call him a bona fide c*nt (basically, i know someone who went to see derek live and he told this pregnant woman, that basically she is going to give birth to the messiah!! even if it was true who would want that type of responsibilty, surely 'god' would let them know when they were ready. super c*nt)

if anyone caught derrens live show 'mind reader' that showed how these psychics actually do it. it is impressive, but they no more talk to the dead than i do have a conversation with a turd


lol

I love Derek Acorah, "Most Haunted" is vaudeville farce, but he was it's principal player. It was as funny as hell when he was on it, now it's dour and up its own arse.

[john lydon]

I've seen that before...It bring a very good lesson of discernment. Not that I will get conned by a psychic but there are many people like this in all kinds of fields which you must be wary of.

I'd go further, if someone's selling a belief system they're suspect. I don't mean that they're "evil" in anyway, but what they're promoting needs to be taken apart and scrutinised before being championed. Which again was the whole point of Derren's show.

[robindean]

What do you guys n gals on this forum think if Derren Brown?

Is he a bad influence on us? Or is he simply exposing the many ways we're being influenced by the elite? Or both?

I've always been confused on him.. because i know most of what he does if not all of it is real because i've tried some of it on my dad lolol, but surely channel4 wouldn't take a huge sudden interest on an unknown person for no reason?

[john lydon]

What do you guys n gals on this forum think if Derren Brown?

Is he a bad influence on us? Or is he simply exposing the many ways we're being influenced by the elite? Or both?

I've always been confused on him.. because i know most of what he does if not all of it is real because i've tried some of it on my dad lolol, but surely channel4 wouldn't take a huge sudden interest on an unknown person for no reason?

What do you think? Forget what anyone else does.

Bad influence? Wasn't that the whole point of the "Messiah" show?

Elite? You mean people doing what they want to and sometimes at the expense of everyone else? lol It amuses me no end that people single other people out for doing exactly what they do, only on a grander scale.

Derren Brown is entertaining and he gets you thinking, what more do you want from TV?

[mondo23]

Read Derren's book, Tricks of the mind.


http://files.list.co.uk/images/2006/12/07/derren-brown.jpg

It made alot of sense to me and some of the tricks you can learn are easy and fun and impress most people. The stuff he writes about attraction is very useful if you want to get laid ;)
He's a big fan of Richard Dawkins and qoutes him alot in the book. My favourite is 'Isnt the garden beautiful enough without having to put fairies at the bottom of it?'
Yes it is.

[lenejento]

Read Derren's book, Tricks of the mind.


http://files.list.co.uk/images/2006/12/07/derren-brown.jpg

It made alot of sense to me and some of the tricks you can learn are easy and fun and impress most people. The stuff he writes about attraction is very useful if you want to get laid ;)
He's a big fan of Richard Dawkins and qoutes him alot in the book. My favourite is 'Isnt the garden beautiful enough without having to put fairies at the bottom of it?'
Yes it is.

Lets all start mind controlling each other...

[deckard]

How come these psychic guys always have this intense look of mystery on their faces, you cant take them seriously.

[chris]

Darren Brown is not a psychic, he's a mentalist.

[john lydon]

How come these psychic guys always have this intense look of mystery on their faces, you cant take them seriously.

It's all a part of the act. As is a goatee and wearing black. See Michael Tsarion for further evidence.

[deckard]

look into my eyes, look into my eyes, not to the left, not to the right.. now your under.

[monkfish]

It was Derren brown who first got me into the David icke stuff believe it or not

[romas]

What do you guys n gals on this forum think if Derren Brown?

Is he a bad influence on us? Or is he simply exposing the many ways we're being influenced by the elite? Or both?

I've always been confused on him.. because i know most of what he does if not all of it is real because i've tried some of it on my dad lolol, but surely channel4 wouldn't take a huge sudden interest on an unknown person for no reason?



I would really love to know, who the heck he really is and where he learned his craft.

Like in 'Messiah' series he never really explains if he did research on the people he pulled the bullshit on, like medical past etc.

I've really got no idea how he pulled that "alleged skeptic" to the ground and "made him a believer in God" seriously are they using some kind of secret tech behind the wall or is this the so called Chi force or whatever?
He says that box of his is just a box with a battery, well is it? Could he be lying as well as his targets?

To put it simply the implications are such that you buy a belief in him rather than those he ridicules. Just like Pen and Teller Bullshit.

[twistedconcept]

Derren Brown often quotes Richard Dawkins, a man that ridicules any religious believer. As far as I'm concerned, they're both atheist fundamentalists. His books do, however, have some very interesting information.

[seanie]

Regarding the New Age guy's i dont think it was a really fair experiment he's basically planting suggestions in there head and then getting them to draw what he told them to draw, this is good for palour trick's an such.but it's just a trick

Now if they had of asked him to pick from a list of random objects and asked him to try and discern what that was it would of been a different story.

but the way it's portrayed in the documentary is These people are leading experts in there field they should know better and if they don't then how can you trust anything they say.

From the point of view of the audience this logic seems reasonable, but his experiment is flawed and while not claiming to come to any solid conclusions it is made clear to the audience that these people's and there belief's are ridiculous without any objective scientific test or control's.

Don't get me wrong i'm not sticking up for the New Age but this is a tactic used by the Ellette all the time when trying to shape public opinion i think it's a little ironic that a show claiming to be questioning belief systems would use such underhand tactics

I wonder if he's trying to get people to question there belief system or replace it with the other great belief system science.

[who elsie]

I would really love to know, who the heck he really is and where he learned his craft.

Like in 'Messiah' series he never really explains if he did research on the people he pulled the bullshit on, like medical past etc.

I've really got no idea how he pulled that "alleged skeptic" to the ground and "made him a believer in God" seriously are they using some kind of secret tech behind the wall or is this the so called Chi force or whatever?
He says that box of his is just a box with a battery, well is it? Could he be lying as well as his targets?

To put it simply the implications are such that you buy a belief in him rather than those he ridicules. Just like Pen and Teller Bullshit.

Derren Brown always manages to throw up a variety of strong views and this thread is no exception. Like you Romas, I have often wondered about where he learnt his craft, if that is what it is. Very little seems to be known about his background, which is odd. I just wonder whether he is a sort of Uri Geller in reverse. Geller always claimed to be genuine, so people researched him like crazy and dug up all sorts of dirt on him and discredited him. Brown, on the other hand, says from the off that he is performing 'tricks'. So he is not treated in the same probing and suspicious way that Geller was. What is there to expose if he has already said 'I'm not the genuine article, just a magician'. The only thing that could be exposed is that he is the genuine article and does have exceptional, super-human abilities - and mainstream people certainly don't want that!

I have to say, some of the things he does leave me speechless and the Messiah show was very powerful. If he was trained by others - who are they and why do we see nobody else performing such feats? Yes, you may say that there are people that can do some of the things that he does, but who else does all of them - and with such apparant ease. :confused:

[mondo23]

Derren Brown always manages to throw up a variety of strong views and this thread is no exception. Like you Romas, I have often wondered about where he learnt his craft, if that is what it is. Very little seems to be known about his background, which is odd. I just wonder whether he is a sort of Uri Geller in reverse. Geller always claimed to be genuine, so people researched him like crazy and dug up all sorts of dirt on him and discredited him. Brown, on the other hand, says from the off that he is performing 'tricks'. So he is not treated in the same probing and suspicious way that Geller was. What is there to expose if he has already said 'I'm not the genuine article, just a magician'. The only thing that could be exposed is that he is the genuine article and does have exceptional, super-human abilities - and mainstream people certainly don't want that!

I have to say, some of the things he does leave me speechless and the Messiah show was very powerful. If he was trained by others - who are they and why do we see nobody else performing such feats? Yes, you may say that there are people that can do some of the things that he does, but who else does all of them - and with such apparant ease. :confused:


The first chapter of his book is about his history and how he got into hypnotism, nlp and other mind tricks. He says that he was a happy clappy christian in his first years at university in Bristol but he was a little isolated from other students and after seeing a hypnotist he was inspired to learn more about it and it went on from there and he spent most of his time reading. He reveals his sources, recommends books that he read that taught him what he does and explains that anyone can do what he does. He has no 'super-human' abilities. He often reveals his techniques (usually nlp) and says that he is a showman first and foremost.
So then, there's no need to speculate that he is in cahoots with sinsiter organisations or that he is the son of the devil or any other crap. He's a likeable guy with an amazing talent but a talent that anyone can nurture if you loved doing what he does as much as he does.

[who elsie]

The first chapter of his book is about his history and how he got into hypnotism, nlp and other mind tricks. He says that he was a happy clappy christian in his first years at university in Bristol but he was a little isolated from other students and after seeing a hypnotist he was inspired to learn more about it and it went on from there and he spent most of his time reading. He reveals his sources, recommends books that he read that taught him what he does and explains that anyone can do what he does. He has no 'super-human' abilities. He often reveals his techniques (usually nlp) and says that he is a showman first and foremost.
So then, there's no need to speculate that he is in cahoots with sinsiter organisations or that he is the son of the devil or any other crap. He's a likeable guy with an amazing talent but a talent that anyone can nurture if you loved doing what he does as much as he does.

Thanks. I'll certainly check out his book. However, I still find it hard to believe that he learnt all he knows just from reading books. I wonder, has anyone independantly researched him and the techniques he uses?

[romas]

Derren Brown always manages to throw up a variety of strong views and this thread is no exception. Like you Romas, I have often wondered about where he learnt his craft, if that is what it is. Very little seems to be known about his background, which is odd. I just wonder whether he is a sort of Uri Geller in reverse. Geller always claimed to be genuine, so people researched him like crazy and dug up all sorts of dirt on him and discredited him. Brown, on the other hand, says from the off that he is performing 'tricks'. So he is not treated in the same probing and suspicious way that Geller was. What is there to expose if he has already said 'I'm not the genuine article, just a magician'. The only thing that could be exposed is that he is the genuine article and does have exceptional, super-human abilities - and mainstream people certainly don't want that!

I have to say, some of the things he does leave me speechless and the Messiah show was very powerful. If he was trained by others - who are they and why do we see nobody else performing such feats? Yes, you may say that there are people that can do some of the things that he does, but who else does all of them - and with such apparant ease. :confused:



I agree, I had this impression he wasn't just a simple guy with ordinary past, if we should believe all we read about secret projects, this could very well be one of them.
After all mind controll was top priority in warfare as far as our recorded mainstream history goes.

I've picked up his knee-jerk reaction couple of times when he fails he starts slapping himself over the head saying "bad boy, bad boy Derren" it came up in "Trick Of The Mind" series and couple of other.
Curiously if one was trained from childhood in such craft, I could imagine this reaction as bad memory imprint. Ofcourse this proves nothing, yet we're open to speculate on this web site :)

[monkey]

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Derren_brown

[hagbard_celine]

I don't agree with Derren Brown's Skeptical views on Spiritualism and other paranormal phenomena, but there's no doubting his psychological skills and he does a good job exposing obvious scams and the power of subliminals etc..

[sithnemesis]

http://www.simonsingh.com/Derren_Brown_Article.html (http://www.simonsingh.com/Derren_Brown_Article.html)

[inky]

I love watching Derren Brown shows, and the man himself facinates me a great deal and after reading this thread I bought the book 'Tricks of the mind' whereby on the cover of the book is a devil talking in his ear, also if you look on the books spine you will see derren without the devil but his hair has been shaped in to horns, you will also notice the goatie.

Now don't get me wrong, this guy has a wonderful way of memorising stuff, especially the playing cards which goes by the 'peg system' and usually with the peg system you can pretty much remember anything - quite amazing!

But I can't help thinking he is practicing in the darker side. You only have to practice his card memory tricks to realise that what you are seeing is killing maiming and blood, it paints a pretty nasty picture in your mind when you have got to the 47th card and you feel like you are an evil person by killing cupid by his own arrow, shooting the young boy in the club, killing the gardener by a plant pot (anyoneone who has read the book will get the drift) while all the time dissmissing anything that we see as good. I have a very open mind though and i'm sure Derren does, but i feel he could put more of his intellect in to seeing the better side of life.

[thebarfly1]

I love derren brown, he's a master of manipulation, did anybody else notice in video 2 how he suggested the images that he wanted the lady to draw every time?
Maybe i just picked up on it more quickly having seen some of his stuff before, for example the time he was walking around nyc buying stuff with blank sheets of paper......! All by going off on a tangent about the subway and dropping in the lines, "its fine", "just take it"...

Really talented guy

[duckingdafta]

I first saw Derren in '98 and was so impressed I named my first son (one of his middle names) after him. (even though it is close to mine). I have over the years suspected things from Tavistock to Rosicrucian connections (well his style is that of ...nevermind, off topic)... but he does the job of exposure and awareness anyway.... and shows people it is easier than you think to manipulate the mind.

[hagbard_celine]

I love derren brown, he's a master of manipulation, did anybody else notice in video 2 how he suggested the images that he wanted the lady to draw every time?
Maybe i just picked up on it more quickly having seen some of his stuff before, for example the time he was walking around nyc buying stuff with blank sheets of paper......! All by going off on a tangent about the subway and dropping in the lines, "its fine", "just take it"...

Really talented guy

Yeah, despite my differing opinions with him on the Paranormal, he's probably doing a hell of a lot to educate people into how their minds can be subverted and undermined. Good for him!:cool:

[inky]

i loved the part when he mentioned 'aliens are too busy posing as world leaders' hahahas

[sirreginald]

Derren is a true genius.
His mixture of nlp / hypnotism / suggestion / PROVE what the media can do (are doing) daily.

he does some "tricks" by the way that are anything but. He has developed a fantastic memory / memory system.

Getting the yanks to believe that he was "talking" to their dead relatives (they were crying in the audience) , proved beyond any shadow of a doubt, to any rational person EXACTLY what bullshit ALL of that Bullshit actually is.

Unfortunately, some people will never learn.