A Public Register Of Freemasons

[keystone]

Dear old Joe keeps blathering on about this as his sig says:

We at the Anti Corruption Party do not hate Masons or anybody, only ignorance and evil. Why do all Masons hide ? Give us a public register and ACP will show you why.

OK then perhaps it would be nice if you would show us why as production of the evidence might hasten the arrival of your public register.

Joe can't have his cake and eat it too!

Even Chris Mullen's changed his mind.

Anyone got any views on this?

[element]

Joe and Keystone are like magnets. :D

But yeah, give us public register!! I want to know if my dentist, doctor, teachers and major are Freemasons..!!

[kweli]

Joe and Keystone are like magnets. :D

But yeah, give us public register!! I want to know if my dentist, doctor, teachers and major are Freemasons..!!

Yeah me too! I'd bet money on the thieving Bank Manager & the dodgy Accountant (recommended by the thieving Bank Manager) that set us up good and proper being Freemasons.

[keystone]

So joking aside the impression I'm getting is that neither of you two guys have any REAL reason for such a public register apart from basic inquisitiveness.

Would that be a fair summation? Please tell me if I'm wrong.

[kweli]

So joking aside the impression I'm getting is that neither of you two guys have any REAL reason for such a public register apart from basic inquisitiveness.

Would that be a fair summation? Please tell me if I'm wrong.

In my case you're very very wrong. I have many more reasons. I was just making light of things in my previous post.

[keystone]

In my case you're very very wrong. I have many more reasons. I was just making light of things in my previous post.OK - want to share? Ok if not but I'd really like to understand why theres so much hate floating around. Some of it seems to be borne of the herd mentality, some of it not, some of it just playing games. This seemed as good a method as any.

[kweli]

OK - want to share? Ok if not but I'd really like to understand why theres so much hate floating around. Some of it seems to be borne of the herd mentality, some of it not, some of it just playing games. This seemed as good a method as any.

No I don't wish to share on a public forum... that would be very foolish of me. I don't hate Masons.. I don't feel hatred towards anyone. I know a couple of Freemasons personally, one of them in the Royal Arches.. although I'll be honest and admit, I'm not sure what that really means?

Are you against a public register? if so, why?

[peter griffin]

freemasons should not be allowed to hold public office.
freemasons are sworn to uphold masonic oaths over all other oaths even federal.

[keystone]

No I don't wish to share on a public forum...OK thats fair and I respect that

that would be very foolish of me.An interesting observation but lets leave it at that.

I don't hate Masons.. I don't feel hatred towards anyone.Neither do I although I have to admit that there are some posters on here and in other places who irritate the hell out of me and yes a few of them are masons as well.

I know a couple of Freemasons personally, one of them in the Royal Arches.. although I'll be honest and admit, I'm not sure what that really means?The Royal Arch is (as far as English masonry is concerned) the only order outside Craft masonry that's formally recognised as being masonic. Perhaps more about that another time.

Are you against a public register? if so, why?In principle I suppose I'm not and there was a time under The Unlawful Societies Act when freemasons lodges were required to provide a list of their members to the local magistrate. That was before it was decided that perhaps freemasonry wasn't the subversive group that people thought it was and that is no longer a requirement. Funny though how the wheel has turned full circle and now there are self interest and hate groups demanding that again.

Not so long ago freemasons were supposed to keep their membership secret. Now any one member is quite free to acknowledge his membership and to discuss it. There are of course some who would not want to for fear of persecution in the workplace etc or perhaps they just don't want to.

In having a public register there is the issue of compulsion. As most on this forum would seem to believe compulsory HIV testing, compulsory DNA registration, compulsory ID cards etc are an infringement of the individuals civil liberties and a further examples of the big brother state. Now if a public register was required of freemasons should that not an example of the same thing? Actually it is - why should an individual freemason have his privacy invaded. Its hardly an enlightened approach. There would be total outcry here if it was enacted that there had to be a public register of members of conspiracy sites. Lets face it there are very few members here whose true identity is known. Everyone posts behind a screen name after all.

Therefore, I have to say I am against it at the present time because I do not see what useful purpose it would serve. Actually I suppose there is one. It would enable those on the list to be subjected to a daily bombardment of hate mail accompanied by the odd lorry load of horseshit dumped on the driveway. :D Yeah - great fun!

[keystone]

freemasons should not be allowed to hold public office.
freemasons are sworn to uphold masonic oaths over all other oaths even federal.

Balls. You are quite, quite wrong.

.............but let me assure you that in those vows there is nothing incompatible with your civil, moral, or religious duties. but don't take my word for it - you can find the full ritual on the internet.

PS and just for completeness heres the same part of the US ritual which I have just looked up on the internet.

which I, as Master of this Lodge, assure you will not materially interfere with the duty that you owe to your God, yourself, family, country, or neighbor.

[kweli]

OK thats fair and I respect that

An interesting observation but lets leave it at that.

Neither do I although I have to admit that there are some posters on here and in other places who irritate the hell out of me and yes a few of them are masons as well.

The Royal Arch is (as far as English masonry is concerned) the only order outside Craft masonry that's formally recognised as being masonic. Perhaps more about that another time. In principle I suppose I'm not and there was a time under The Unlawful Societies Act when freemasons lodges were required to provide a list of their members to the local magistrate. That was before it was decided that perhaps freemasonry wasn't the subversive group that people thought it was and that is no longer a requirement. Funny though how the wheel has turned full circle and now there are self interest and hate groups demanding that again.

Not so long ago freemasons were supposed to keep their membership secret. Now any one member is quite free to acknowledge his membership and to discuss it. There are of course some who would not want to for fear of persecution in the workplace etc or perhaps they just don't want to.

In having a public register there is the issue of compulsion. As most on this forum would seem to believe compulsory HIV testing, compulsory DNA registration, compulsory ID cards etc are an infringement of the individuals civil liberties and a further examples of the big brother state. Now if a public register was required of freemasons should that not an example of the same thing? Actually it is - why should an individual freemason have his privacy invaded. Its hardly an enlightened approach. There would be total outcry here if it was enacted that there had to be a public register of members of conspiracy sites. Lets face it there are very few members here whose true identity is known. Everyone posts behind a screen name after all.

Therefore, I have to say I am against it at the present time because I do not see what useful purpose it would serve. Actually I suppose there is one. It would enable those on the list to be subjected to a daily bombardment of hate mail accompanied by the odd lorry load of horseshit dumped on the driveway. :D Yeah - great fun!

You contradict yourself in the first two paragraphs there. But I appreciate your information there on.

Right.. it's another time. Could you please expand on what you know about the Royal Arches? It's very important to my research. The chappie I know.. also goes to Malta for lots of holidays, is there any connection?

[keystone]

You contradict yourself in the first two paragraphs there.Wasn't supposed to be and from my perspective it wasn't! Never mind.

But I appreciate your information there on.Thanks.

Right.. it's another time.Sorry - I wasn't here last night.

Could you please expand on what you know about the Royal Arches? It's very important to my research.At the risk of derailing the thread heres a couple of links One (http://www.grandchapter.org.uk/royal-arch/index.htm) and Two (http://www.gracma.org/Royal_Arch_Masonry.htm)

The chappie I know.. also goes to Malta for lots of holidays, is there any connection?Not as far as I know in a masonic sense. I haven't been there for a few years.

[peter griffin]

In General Ahiman Rezon ; or, Freemason's Guide " we
read: "
The candidate, entering the lodge, is on the point of binding
himself voluntarily, absolutely and without reservation forever."
Webb's Monitor says : "
The covenant is irrevocable. Even though a Mason may be
suspended or expelled, though he may withdraw from the lodge,
jonrney into countries where Masons cannot be found, or become a
subject of despotic governments that persecute, or a communicant of
bigoted churches that denounce Masonry, he cannot cast off or nullify
his Masonic covenant. No law of the land can affect it; no
anathema of the church can weaken it. It is irrevocable."
Again this same Masonic author says : "
The first duty of the reader of this synopsis is to obey the edicts
of his Grand Lodge. Bight or wrong, his very existence as a Mason
hangs upon obedience to the power immediately set above him.
Failure in this must infallibly bring down expulsion, which as a
Masonic death, ends all. The one unpardonable crime in a Mason is
contumacy, or disobedience."

MORRIS — Dictionary
of Freemasonry. "
Disobedience is so subversive of the ground work of Masonry,
in which obedience is so strongly inculcated, that the Mason who
disobeys subjects himself to severe penalties." — Ibid. "
A Grand Lodge is invested with power and authority
over all
the craft within its jurisdiction. It is the Supreme Court of Appeals
in all Masonic cases, and to its decrees unlimited obedience must be
paid by every lodge and every Mason situated within its contr.pl. The
government of Grand Lodges is, therefore, completely despotic.
While a Grand Lodge exists, its edicts must be respected and obeyed
without examination by its subordinate lodges." — MACKEY — Lexicon of
Freemasonry, page 183. "
For ourselves, we deny as Masons that any civil government
on
earth has the right to divide or curtail Masonic jurisdiction when
once established. It can only be done by competent Masonic authority
and in accordance with Masonic usage." — Grand Lodge Report. "
A ' due summons ' from the lodge or Grand Lodge is obligatory
upon him, and should he refuse obedience he will be disgracefully
expelled from the society with public marks of ignominy that can never
be erased." — MORBIS — Dictionary of Freemasonry, page 29. "
Dis'obedience and want of respect to Masonic superiors is
an
offense for which the transgressor subjects himself to punishment." —
MACKEY — Masonic Jurisprudence, page 611. "
Hence we find that the Master's authority in the lodge is
as despotic
as the sun in the firmament which was placed there by the
Creator, never to deviate from its accustomed course, till the declaration
is promulgated that time shall be no more." — OLIVEE Signs and
Symbols of Freemasonry, page 142. "
Treason and rebellion also, because they are altogether political
offences, cannot be inquired into by a lodge ; and although a Mason
may be convicted of either of these acts in the courts of his country,
he cannot be masonically punished ; and notwithstanding his treason
or rebellion his relation to the lodge, to use the language of the old
charges, remains indefeasible." — MACKKY — Masonic Jurisprudence,
page, 510. "
There is no duty more forcibly enjoined in Masonry than thai
of warning a brother of danger impending to his person or interests.
To neglect this is a positive violation of obligation, and destroys any
person's claim to be entitled a Mason." — MORKIS — Dictionary of Freemasonry,
page 325. "
The powers and privileges of the Master of a lodge are by no
means limited in extent." — CHASE — Digest of Masonic Law, page 380. "
As a presiding oflicer the Master is- possessed of extraordinary
powers, which belong to the presiding officer of no other association." —
MACKEY — Masonic Jurisprudence, page 344. "
The system of Masonic law has little of the republican or democratic
spirit about it.'' — MORRIS — Webb's Freemason's Monitor, revised
edition, page 195. " '

No wonder a most prominent member admits the following : "
There is no charge more frequently made against Freemasonry
than that of its tendency to revolution and conspiracy, and to political
organizations which may affect the peace of society or interfere
with the rights of government," — MACKEY — Mystic Tie of Freemasonry,
page 43.

[keystone]

I take your point but you have taken it out of context IMHO. Theres a lot of bollocks (particularly in US masonry - no offence) about masonic discipline and masonic jurisprudence. If your view of it were true Thelonius and I would be burning by now. We ain't.

Mackeys observation doesn't say the accusation is true though does it? He's right and for too long masons haven't had the bals to stand up and say it's balls which it is.

And in the UK (can't comment on the US) if a mason is convicted of a criminal offence he is automatically expelled from the fraternity.

[peter griffin]

I take your point but you have taken it out of context IMHO. Theres a lot of bollocks (particularly in US masonry - no offence) about masonic discipline and masonic jurisprudence. If your view of it were true Thelonius and I would be burning by now. We ain't.

Mackeys observation doesn't say the accusation is true though does it? He's right and for too long masons haven't had the bals to stand up and say it's balls which it is.

And in the UK (can't comment on the US) if a mason is convicted of a criminal offence he is automatically expelled from the fraternity.


those were quotes from official masonic writings.whos right?you or mackey?
and i havent even brought up albert pike yet.or carl cloudy.

this is my source
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=AuU0AAAAMAAJ&dq=In+the+Coils:+Or,+the+Coming+Conflict&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=LVU529yW_u&sig=42fUHAr0R0t4HbuTkZ8wgpuwUoQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

read the chapter entitled
imperium in impero

if you read that chapter you will read about an ex-confederate general who should have been hung for treason.that general is none other than albert pike.he was exonerated by an amreican president of crimes he commited.and why?because pike and that president were both fellow royal arch masons.

this book was written in 1886.the farther back you go into masonic writings the more truth you will get.
todays masonic writings are more covered up and more esoteric than they once were.

[keystone]

those were quotes from official masonic writings.whos right?you or mackey?
and i havent even brought up albert pike yet.or carl cloudy.Mackey comments that that's an often made accusation. He is RIGHT - it is an often made accusation. It is unfounded.

Pike was not a very nice person in m estimation. Please don't start the "Morals and Dogma is the freemasons way of life" stuff. It isn't. Although I've read in in part it is very often misquoted.

BTW shouldn't this be a separate thread? We are rather getting off my original point.

[jacob sladder]

And in the UK (can't comment on the US) if a mason is convicted of a criminal offence he is automatically expelled from the fraternity.


Yep. Know of a chap who was found guilty of a crime, and was out of his Lodge and out of the organisation so fast that you didn't have time to say 'conspiracy'!
And quite rightly too...

[kweli]

Wasn't supposed to be and from my perspective it wasn't! Never mind.

Thanks.

Sorry - I wasn't here last night.

At the risk of derailing the thread heres a couple of links One (http://www.grandchapter.org.uk/royal-arch/index.htm) and Two (http://www.gracma.org/Royal_Arch_Masonry.htm)

Not as far as I know in a masonic sense. I haven't been there for a few years.

Aye, never mind.

And thanks for the links.. I wasn't being lazy, just couldn't find much.

[nihil]

The covenant is irrevocable, as Dr. Faust .

[keystone]

Yawn here he comes again. Bumping up a thread that noone has posted to for over a year and adding what? Zip, nada of any import. Trolling tonite! (just my opinion you understand).

Cheers