can anyone show me the best proof of molten steel

[pacoquerak]

it seems that there is a lot of evidence of this, but i am having trouble finding validified sources proving that these meteroites were indeed recovered. Ty!

[stealth_0073]

it seems that there is a lot of evidence of this, but i am having trouble finding validified sources proving that these meteroites were indeed recovered. Ty!

its a myth like the plane theory

[pacoquerak]

that's not really true...

[tracker]

that's not really true...


please tell me , what isthe thread subject
i am a novis astronomer and may be able to point to a good direction etc .

meteorites and molten steel , whats the connection ?

[pacoquerak]

please tell me , what isthe thread subject
i am a novis astronomer and may be able to point to a good direction etc .

meteorites and molten steel , whats the connection ?

they called them meteorites because they were steel that melted together with concrete to form an entire new mineral...

[christophera]

it seems that there is a lot of evidence of this, but i am having trouble finding validified sources proving that these meteroites were indeed recovered. Ty!

The composite concrete, steel mass cannot be proven to have come from the WTC. However it is very likely it was. What can be shown is evidence of an action that can hardly have taken place anywhere else.

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/2169/moltensteelenclose5mt.jpg

The excavator grapple has steel in it that is actually eroded from being submerged in molten steel. It appears that smal droplets or scale is falling off of the steel as it is being pulled from a pool of it below.

[dangermouse]

its a myth like the plane theory

blatant disregard for the actual events as usual

[stealth_0073]

blatant disregard for the actual events as usual

i have all the archives for 3 solid days for 5 channels i haven't seen any molten lava!! only on the nbc bluescreen they showed glowing from the trade center at night!!! but its fake as it doesn't correspond with the abc footage get the drift.

its a myth implanted in your brain and christophera were is that truck going dump the molten lava in a steel skip? lmfao.

are humans so stupid

[lordzoma]

are humans so stupid

Just you.

[tracker]

Just you.

wat about me ?

i believe the tv .

i believe that highjackers took over a airplane full of grown adults with plastic knives and forks

can i be silly too ?

now to the thread issue .

there are also news clippings that are never mentioned in the news about explosions in the basement of the WTC at the time, infact the news clipping i found actually recorded 2 explosions at the basement .

very bizzae ineed why they have never made that public .:cool:

[stealth_0073]

Just you.

were is that truck going dump the molten lava in a steel skip?

[ukor]

i have all the archives for 3 solid days for 5 channels i haven't seen any molten lava!! only on the nbc bluescreen they showed glowing from the trade center at night!!! but its fake as it doesn't correspond with the abc footage get the drift.

Having (as in owning) and understanding are two very different things. Would you like to inform us how many days after your wondrous archive expires, the clean up let alone the associated tunneling into the rubble began?

its a myth implanted in your brain and christophera were is that truck going dump the molten lava in a steel skip? lmfao.

I dread to think what's implanted in your brain if you imagine steel trucks full of molten lava driving round NYC

are humans so stupid

Speaking for yourself, it's painfully obvious that the answer is in the affirmative.

[stealth_0073]

Having (as in owning) and understanding are two very different things. Would you like to inform us how many days after your wondrous archive expires, the clean up let alone the associated tunneling into the rubble began?


read my ? i told you 3 days


I dread to think what's implanted in your brain if you imagine steel trucks full of molten lava driving round NYC


try again!!! no trucks driving away with any molten substance



Speaking for yourself, it's painfully obvious that the answer is in the affirmative.

i see the bigger picture your still in the rabbit hole
just by studying whats going on in the planet, and in our atmosphere

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Bj8wrXslk

[lightgiver]

it seems that there is a lot of evidence of this, but i am having trouble finding validified sources proving that these meteroites were indeed recovered. Ty!

Are you getting mixed up with thermite:confused:;)
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=qEcoU85AQwQ ;)

[lightgiver]

were is that truck going dump the molten lava in a steel skip?

probably the same place where all the steel got shipped off to:confused:

i do not think you can put molten lava into a steel skip:confused:can you:confused:

[stealth_0073]

probably the same place where all the steel got shipped off to:confused:

i do not think you can put molten lava into a steel skip:confused:can you:confused:

no steel got shipped off!!! thats another psyop implanted into the media
why would china take contaminated steel?

[lightgiver]

Is anyone else getting this:confused:;)
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=ezIU6ZxYU3A

[lightgiver]

no steel got shipped off!!! thats another psyop implanted into the media
why would china take contaminated steel?
reality is what you can get away with;)
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=GxycV4fNPnQ

Of course china would take the steel,have you seen the rate they are knocking buildings up?they take every other bit of waste and recycle it.

What do you mean Contaminated?

[dangermouse]

i have all the archives for 3 solid days for 5 channels i haven't seen any molten lava!! only on the nbc bluescreen they showed glowing from the trade center at night!!! but its fake as it doesn't correspond with the abc footage get the drift.

its a myth implanted in your brain and christophera were is that truck going dump the molten lava in a steel skip? lmfao.

are humans so stupid

Did u see the post from Christophera? Particularly the image. Or maybe that running liquid is honey ... :D

[mynameis]

Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction
Steven E. Jones1, Jeffrey Farrer2, Gregory S. Jenkins3, Frank Legge4, James Gourley, Kevin Ryan,
Daniel Farnsworth, and Crockett Grabbe5.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/articles/WTCHighTemp2.pdf

Definitive? Maybe...Still awaiting for other nano-thermite analysis.

[tracker]

Is anyone else getting this:confused:;)
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=ezIU6ZxYU3A


yes i saw smething else on this thermade thing a while ago and yes , its very damaging evidance that 9/11 is an inside job .

one day people will wake up .:cool:

[lightgiver]

yes i saw smething else on this thermade thing a while ago and yes , its very damaging evidance that 9/11 is an inside job .

one day people will wake up .:cool:

Thats a relief;)people need to watch the vids for a clearer perspective i feel,they do sometimes answer questions:)

I mean the last fires put out in december,3 months after the attack and people believe jet fuel caused that,i feel sorry for them.

[christophera]

i have all the archives for 3 solid days for 5 channels i haven't seen any molten lava!! only on the nbc bluescreen they showed glowing from the trade center at night!!! but its fake as it doesn't correspond with the abc footage get the drift.

its a myth implanted in your brain and christophera were is that truck going dump the molten lava in a steel skip? lmfao.

are humans so stupid

It's not a truck, it's a hydraulic excavator and it will do a 160 degree turn on its turn table and drop the stuff to cool.

It probably picks up then drops a small bite of cold steel debri in and then takes a big bite out trying to cool some steel while the cold stuff provides a heat sink. He turns around and another excavator with a cool grapple takes over. A man with a fire hose sprays down the grapple for a few minutes then the excavators trade off again. Images from GZ show exactly this arrangement with 2 excavators.

[christophera]

yes i saw smething else on this thermate thing a while ago and yes , its very damaging evidance that 9/11 is an inside job .

one day people will wake up .:cool:

Big time. It is absolutely impossible to have that much molten steel in the basement any other way. Huge smoking gun, for months actually.

[astro zombie]

I remember hearing Alex Jones say on his show that we have audio and video records of NYC firefighters describing what they saw as "molten steel - like lava" in the basement of all three buildings (it's on youtube somewhere).

And then there is the NASA satellite images...

And also as somebody already posted, there is Stephen Jone's anaylsis of a sample from the buildings, which he found contained thermate.

I'm pretty sure there's alot more but that's all i can think of right now.

[christophera]

I remember hearing Alex Jones say on his show that we have audio and video records of NYC firefighters describing what they saw as "molten steel - like lava" in the basement of all three buildings (it's on youtube somewhere).

And then there is the NASA satellite images...

And also as somebody already posted, there is Stephen Jone's anaylsis of a sample from the buildings, which he found contained thermate.

I'm pretty sure there's alot more but that's all i can think of right now.
There is the guy from
"controlled demolitions" going into the subway with an architect and both repot seeing molten steel in pools. I've seen one better picture than the noe with the grapple. It actually shows a bright puddle. Ironically, te brightness wahes out any detail, but at least you know what it is and that it's a inform plain of molten metal.

[bryan]

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/2169/moltensteelenclose5mt.jpg

The excavator grapple has steel in it that is actually eroded from being submerged in molten steel. It appears that smal droplets or scale is falling off of the steel as it is being pulled from a pool of it below.


For a thorough analysis of this photograph:

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=32&MMN_position=187:187

Studies of a Falsified Photo, Part 1
An Introduction
The author claims that the very first photograph in the paper by Steven Jones entitled "Why Indeed Did the World Trade Center Buildings Completely Collapse? " is a forgery.


and a review of some more:

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=50&MMN_position=79:79

The Best Photographic Proof that Steven Jones Could Find?
The five pictures below are the entirety of photographic proof of molten or incandescent metal found in the WTC rubble that Steven Jones offers in his "ground-breaking" paper "Why Indeed Did...".

[lightgiver]

I suppose all these people are fake also,
yeah honest it was kerosene based jet fuel that caused the high temperatures and bent and twisted 20 ton steel girders and the pulverisation of the towers not forgetting wtc 7,:rolleyes:do the TPTB really think people are so stupid:confused::p
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jrUosvSNLCk,
try to watch the vid before you start your waffle:D

Thermite,thermate,thermite,thermate....... not marmite:p

how much proof do people need????

[bryan]

I suppose all these people are fake also,
yeah honest it was kerosene based jet fuel that caused the high temperatures and bent and twisted 20 ton steel girders and the pulverisation of the towers not forgetting wtc 7,:rolleyes:do the TPTB really think people are so stupid:confused::p
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jrUosvSNLCk,
try to watch the vid before you start your waffle:D

Thermite,thermate,thermite,thermate....... not marmite:p

how much proof do people need????

Woah, hang on a bit! I've no axe to grind here, except I don't trust Steven Jones as far as I could throw him. I'm not all that interested in the issue of molten steel, to be honest. All I'm doing is pointing out that the photos Steven Jones uses seem to be very dodgy. It could be that he's setting himself up to be knocked down by his beloved 'peer-reviewers'. The analysis I linked to is comprehensive and technical, but it's not trying to debunk controlled demolition. The writer believes the towers were brought down using conventional explosives, and the whole site is dedicated to proving it with irrefutable evidence.

[lightgiver]

Woah, hang on a bit! I've no axe to grind here, except I don't trust Steven Jones as far as I could throw him. I'm not all that interested in the issue of molten steel, to be honest. All I'm doing is pointing out that the photos Steven Jones uses seem to be very dodgy. It could be that he's setting himself up to be knocked down by his beloved 'peer-reviewers'. The analysis I linked to is comprehensive and technical, but it's not trying to debunk controlled demolition. The writer believes the towers were brought down using conventional explosives, and the whole site is dedicated to proving it with irrefutable evidence.

thermite or thermate is an explosive used by the US military;):)

and steven jones IS as reliable as you get em.do your research on his background;)

Also there was thermite found in the dust samples collected from the areas in question.

even in the forties thermite was used as an incendiary device,a incendiary bomb is designed to start fires and thermite will burn through most things, including steel like a hot knife slicing through butter...and i am sure things have moved on in this day and age.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=HcBENESHMNI

its a pity foamfatale was not around on 911,

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=-4evLcddd8I
and if you are still not convinced

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=2UthXpybO7Y

[thematrix]

thermite or thermate is an explosive used by the US military;):)

thermite/mate is not an explosive it s an incendiary.

it doesn't explode - it just burns at a very high temperature.


and steven jones IS as reliable as you get em.do your research on his background;)


I have done - there are multiple instances of him not acting in a very scientific manner when discussing aspects of his papers with people.

Then there is the whole bust up of scholars for 911 truth debacle...


Also there was thermite found in the dust samples collected from the areas in question.


no.

there were trace elements found in the dust which indicate that thermite/mate *could* have been present. Thermite/mate is *not* the only possible source for these chemical signatures.

As far as I understand it there is no evidence that *proves* there was molten steel in the basements. There is a lot of hearsay anecdotal type witness evidence. The still picture of the grapple pulling out orange hot metal as part of the cleanup is debateable as to whether it shows molten metal or not. It definitely cannot be said if there is molted metal exactly what that metal is, whether it's steel or something else. I am not sure if that picture is taken from a video somewhere so that there would be more context within which to place the pic or if it is simply a still photo.

Certainly the basement fires got extremely hot. Probably hot enough in places to melt steel. I read witness testimony of cleanup workers describing a car parked in the basement that had allow wheels - although the car was still there the wheels had melted and formed pools of (by that time solidified) allow next to where the wheels would have been. that would indicate that for that small area of basement at least, while the heat was intense enough to melt some metals - it wasn't hot enough to melt steel (else the car itself would have melted)

Noone anywhere believes that the jet fuel was the cause of the high temperatures. The official version goes:

Planes impact the towers and start big fires simultaneously across a number of floors.

The force of the impacts of the planes knock loose a significant amount of the freproofing applied to the steel structure in critical areas.

After the fuel from the aircraft burns off hot raging fires in each tower continue to burn fueled by office contents/people in some areas - and in other areas the fires burn inefficiently (hence black smoke and reports from fire people of small pockets of fire)

The heat and impact damage progressively weaken the towers structure to such an extent that a little later the force of gravity overcomes the weakened structure and it starts to collapse.

Once started the collapse was unstoppable and the towers collapse to the ground, the south tower collapsing first as there is more mass above the impact zone being pulled down by gravity than at the north tower.

Jet fuel was the thing that started the fire, it would have almost completely burned away very shortly after the impacts - it was the contents of the tower that burned after that.

[lightgiver]

Thats what i said if you read the post correctly;)a incendiary bomb,you are bit to quick to judge,read 1st.it is still explosive when it is set off a very hot one,
and what makes you such an expert matrix,i suppose you know more than Professor Steven Jones?????

i do not know who you are trying to convince,because you are not convincing me,yeah all the jet fuel that burnt off started all the fires and twisted and melted tons and tons of steel,and the black smoke is due to lack of oxygen(no oxygen,no fire) getting to the fires thus containing them,in fact they where that hot a woman manages to get near to the front of the opening of the gash in the tower ,you have seen the pic,and actually lean on the steel,yeah really hot.

and the towers where designed to take several plane impacts,that's according to the construction manager who i believed perished in the towers???you have seen the vid i am sure?

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=bDGInaB0eQM

and all 3 buildings managed to fall in there own footprints,1st time in history.come off it,do you really believe people are so stupid.

I will take my chances with prof steven jones than you matrix,thanks all the same.

listen and learn

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=q_W-fi4XxK4

[lightgiver]

I suppose the iron workers are wrong also,

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=mN68EddrJWk

[bryan]

listen and learn

This is a bit rich for somebody obsessed with thermite to the point of ignoring what actually happened to the buildings.

Thermite is a prime suspect for the cutting of the plane-shaped holes in the sides of the buildings, and maybe for the separation of the top part of each building to give the impression that the collapse was initiated by the impact of a plane. That would explain why we see thermite dripping from the impact area.

Thermite is not a candidate for the catapulting of huge beams into neighbouring buildings, or for the pulverisation of the concrete. I don't know what was used, but it's interesting to note that the 'Scholars' never discuss nukes, whereas they'll argue till the cows come home over thermite and DEW's.

What amazes me most is how people can put all their faith in Steven E Jones when it's common knowledge that he killed research into cold fusion, on behalf of the government and the scientific establishment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4NtIqsqTE8&feature=related


Has this leopard change its spots?

[lightgiver]

This is a bit rich for somebody obsessed with thermite to the point of ignoring what actually happened to the buildings.

Thermite is a prime suspect for the cutting of the plane-shaped holes in the sides of the buildings, and maybe for the separation of the top part of each building to give the impression that the collapse was initiated by the impact of a plane. That would explain why we see thermite dripping from the impact area.

Thermite is not a candidate for the catapulting of huge beams into neighbouring buildings, or for the pulverisation of the concrete. I don't know what was used, but it's interesting to note that the 'Scholars' never discuss nukes, whereas they'll argue till the cows come home over thermite and DEW's.

What amazes me most is how people can put all their faith in Steven E Jones when it's common knowledge that he killed research into cold fusion, on behalf of the government and the scientific establishment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4NtIqsqTE8&feature=related


Has this leopard change its spots?

cold fusion is irrelevant to 911?so what as become of cold fusion?how could the research have been killed off if he is wrong?

there is not only s jones saying there was thermite used.i know thermite is not solely responsible for the explosions,but it was used and found.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=WqYuJ8vo7_A

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=bDGInaB0eQM



i bet all the debunkers are scratching around for some anti prof jones vid footage;):D LOL

[lightgiver]

In the mid-1980s, Jones and other BYU scientists worked on what he then referred to as Cold Nuclear Fusion in a Scientific American article, but is today known as muon-catalyzed fusion to avoid confusion. Muon-catalyzed fusion was a field of some interest in the 1980s, but its low energy output appears to be unavoidable (due to alpha-muon sticking losses). Jones led a research team that in 1986 achieved 150 fusions per muon (average), releasing over 2,600 MeV of fusion energy per muon, a record which still stands.[7]

Around 1985 Jones then became interested in the anomalous concentration of helium-3 found in the gases escaping from volcanoes. He hypothesized that the high pressures in the Earth's interior might make fusion more likely, and began a series of experiments on what he referred to as piezofusion, or high-pressure fusion. In order to characterize the reactions, Jones designed and built a neutron counter able to accurately measure the tiny numbers of neutrons being produced in his experiments. The counter suggested a small amount of fusion was going on. Jones said the result suggested at least the possibility of fusion, though the process was unlikely to be useful as an energy source.

Pons and Fleischmann (P&F) started their work around the same time. Their work was brought to Jones' attention when they applied for research funding from the Department of Energy, after which the DOE passed their proposal along to Jones for peer review. Realizing their work was very similar, Jones and P&F agreed to release their papers to Nature on the same day, March 24, 1989. However, P&F announced their results at a press event the day before. Jones faxed his paper to Nature.[8]

A New York Times article says that while peer reviewers were quite critical of Pons and Fleishchmann's research they did not apply such criticism to Jones' much more modest, theoretically supported findings. Although critics insisted that his results likely stemmed from experimental error,[9] most of the reviewing physicists indicated that he was a careful scientist. Later research and experiments supported the metallic cold fusion reports by Jones.[10]

;):) part of the FACTS

[lightgiver]

On September 22, 2005 Jones presented his views on the collapse of the World Trade Center towers and World Trade Center 7 at a BYU seminar attended by about 60 people. Pointing to the speed and symmetry of the collapses, the characteristics of dust jets, and reports of molten metal in the debris, Jones suggested that the evidence defies the mainstream collapse theory and favors explosive or Thermite-based demolition. He called for further scientific investigation to test the controlled demolition hypothesis and the release of all relevant data by the government.[11] Shortly after the seminar, Jones placed a paper "Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?" on the Physics department web site.

He subsequently defended the research twice more at BYU,[citation needed] also at Idaho State University, Utah Valley State College, University of Colorado at Boulder and University of Denver, the Utah Academy of Science, Sonoma State University, University of California at Berkeley, and the University of Texas at Austin. [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18]

Jones' paper has been the center of controversy both for its content and its claims to scientific rigor.[19] Jones' early critics included members of BYU's engineering faculty;[20] shortly after he made his views public, the BYU College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences and the faculty of structural engineering issued statements in which they distanced themselves from Jones' work. They noted that Jones' "hypotheses and interpretations of evidence were being questioned by scholars and practitioners," and expressed doubts about whether they had been "submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review."[21]

Some of Jones' colleagues have defended his work on 9/11 to varying degrees,[22] and Project Censored lists his 9/11 research among the top mainstream media censored stories of 2007.[23]

Jones maintains that the paper was peer-reviewed prior to publication within a book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out" by D.R. Griffin[24], however it has never been published in an independent peer-reviewed journal. The paper was also posted on the Internet site of the "Journal of 9/11 Studies", which was co-founded by Jones for the purpose of "covering the whole of research related to 9/11/2001", was co-edited by him, and which has recently slowed publication, having posted a notice that potential contributors were encouraged to submit their prospective work to other, more mainstream, publications.[25]The paper also appears in Global Outlook,[26] a magazine "seeking to reveal the truth About 9/11"[27] and in a volume of essays edited by David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott.[28]

On September 7, 2006, Jones removed his paper from BYU's website at the request of administrators and was placed on paid leave. [29]

The university cited its concern about the "increasingly speculative and accusatory nature" of Jones' work and the concern that perhaps it had "not been published in appropriate scientific venues" as reasons for putting him under review. The review was to have been conducted at three levels: BYU administration, the College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, and the Physics Department.[30]

Jones' placement on paid leave drew criticism from the American Association of University Professors and the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both organizations are long time critics of BYU's record on academic freedom.[31] Jones "welcomed the review" because he hoped it would "encourage people to read his paper for themselves," however the review was abandoned (contrary to Jones' request) when Jones elected to retire, effective January 1, 2007.[32]

Jones has been interviewed by mainstream news sources and has made a number of public appearances. While Jones has urged caution in drawing conclusions,[33] his public comments have suggested a considerable degree of certainty about both the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center and the culpability of rogue agents working within the U.S. government.[34] In one interview, he asserted that the attacks were "an 'inside job', puppeteered by the neoconservatives in the White House to justify the occupation of oil-rich Arab countries, inflate military spending, and expand Israel."[35] His name is often mentioned in reporting about 9/11 conspiracy theories.[36]

In April 2008, Jones, along with four other authors, published a letter in The Bentham Open Civil Engineering Journal, titled, 'Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction'[37]. And in August 2008, Jones, along with Kevin Ryan and James Gourley, published a peer-reviewed article in The Environmentalist, titled, 'Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: evidence for energetic materials'.[38].

and even more facts;):)

[thematrix]

Thats what i said if you read the post correctly;)a incendiary bomb,you are bit to quick to judge,read 1st.it is still explosive when it is set off a very hot one,

no.

it's not a bomb, it'snot an explosive, it doesn't explode.

It burns hot -thats all it does.


i do not know who you are trying to convince,because you are not convincing me,yeah all the jet fuel that burnt off started all the fires and twisted and melted tons and tons of steel,and the black smoke is due to lack of oxygen(no oxygen,no fire) getting to the fires thus containing them,in fact they where that hot a woman manages to get near to the front of the opening of the gash in the tower ,you have seen the pic,and actually lean on the steel,yeah really hot.

"That woman" Edna Cintron jumped to her certain death. If you look closely at a good quality video you can see her clothes actually start smouldering before she does jump.

Just think for a moment - how bad must it have been in there? Noone knows how hot the fires were inside the tower - it was a very complex and chaotic event - there would have been small pockets of raging inferno - slightly cooler spots where people could survive for a short while inside.

Edna decided that her *best* choice for what little remained of her life was to jump rather than burn.

All over the internet her video is posted and people like us argue about how hot it was cos "look some woman is waving" - how many of the people like us stop and think for a moment about Edna - and how her family might feel seeing the last moments of her life posted all over youtube?

and the towers where designed to take several plane impacts,that's according to the construction manager who i believed perished in the towers???you have seen the vid i am sure?

impacts at what speed? thats hugely important. The Kinetic energy released on impact goes up exponentially with the square of the velocity(speed) of the thing that impacts - basically that means at double the speed an imapct delivers four times the power.

The towers were designed to take a "fully loaded 707" that was assumed to be lost in fog coming in to land - or shortly after tking off from the nearby airport. Noone designed the building to take a direct hit from an aircraft at 500+ mph


and all 3 buildings managed to fall in there own footprints,1st time in history.come off it,do you really believe people are so stupid.

the two towers hardly fell into their own footprints. they fell straight down and lots of large and small pieces were thrown out away from the "footprint" in all directions as they collapsed. Saying "they fell into their footprints" is about as accurate as saying "they fell at freefall speed" - i.e. not very accurate.


I will take my chances with prof steven jones than you matrix,thanks all the same.


re: the steven jones stuff - it would help a lot if you linked to the source where you copy pasted all that from.

Cold fusion was squashed by the government when they realised it was a viable alternative to oil based power.

Check out the Richard Hoagland/David Wilcock coast to coast transcript that's at divinecosmos.com.

I don't know if SJ had a hand in squashing it - but if he did then that makes me wonder about his motives re 911.

His *hypothesis* is that thermite was used. He has found the chemical signatures of thermite in the dust from ground zero - his hypothesis is NOT proven, there are other possible sources for those chemical fingerprints.

Personally I think thermite is involved somewhere - somehow. But to claim that it's proved that it was used is wrong.

[seercirra]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CFZzfHfWvMs/Rj3zDs0H2jI/AAAAAAAAANo/nEr-iT_vdTo/CIVIL+RIGHTS+INSTIUTE+231.jpg

http://www.wakeuplds.com/wakeuplds/My%20Space/WTC%20Molten%20Steel%20Photos%20Facts.jpg

http://www.archive.org/details/NewYorkPoliceMuseumWtcGunsMelted


http://ia341010.us.archive.org/2/items/NewYorkPoliceMuseumWtcGunsMelted/DSC_7414_color_corrected.png

http://ia341010.us.archive.org/2/items/NewYorkPoliceMuseumWtcGunsMelted/DSC_7415_color_corrected.png

http://ia341010.us.archive.org/2/items/NewYorkPoliceMuseumWtcGunsMelted/DSC_7413_color_corrected.png
(top part of a molten gun)

[seercirra]

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CFZzfHfWvMs/Rj3zDs0H2jI/AAAAAAAAANo/nEr-iT_vdTo/CIVIL+RIGHTS+INSTIUTE+231.jpg

http://www.wakeuplds.com/wakeuplds/My%20Space/WTC%20Molten%20Steel%20Photos%20Facts.jpg

http://www.archive.org/details/NewYorkPoliceMuseumWtcGunsMelted

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CFZzfHfWvMs/Rj3zDs0H2jI/AAAAAAAAANo/nEr-iT_vdTo/CIVIL+RIGHTS+INSTIUTE+231.jpg

http://ia341010.us.archive.org/2/items/NewYorkPoliceMuseumWtcGunsMelted/DSC_7414_color_corrected.png

huh wtf? didnt mean to post twice O_o

[lightgiver]

no.

it's not a bomb, it'snot an explosive, it doesn't explode.

It burns hot -thats all it does.



"That woman" Edna Cintron jumped to her certain death. If you look closely at a good quality video you can see her clothes actually start smouldering before she does jump.

Just think for a moment - how bad must it have been in there? Noone knows how hot the fires were inside the tower - it was a very complex and chaotic event - there would have been small pockets of raging inferno - slightly cooler spots where people could survive for a short while inside.

Edna decided that her *best* choice for what little remained of her life was to jump rather than burn.

All over the internet her video is posted and people like us argue about how hot it was cos "look some woman is waving" - how many of the people like us stop and think for a moment about Edna - and how her family might feel seeing the last moments of her life posted all over youtube?



impacts at what speed? thats hugely important. The Kinetic energy released on impact goes up exponentially with the square of the velocity(speed) of the thing that impacts - basically that means at double the speed an imapct delivers four times the power.

The towers were designed to take a "fully loaded 707" that was assumed to be lost in fog coming in to land - or shortly after tking off from the nearby airport. Noone designed the building to take a direct hit from an aircraft at 500+ mph



the two towers hardly fell into their own footprints. they fell straight down and lots of large and small pieces were thrown out away from the "footprint" in all directions as they collapsed. Saying "they fell into their footprints" is about as accurate as saying "they fell at freefall speed" - i.e. not very accurate.



re: the steven jones stuff - it would help a lot if you linked to the source where you copy pasted all that from.

Cold fusion was squashed by the government when they realised it was a viable alternative to oil based power.

Check out the Richard Hoagland/David Wilcock coast to coast transcript that's at divinecosmos.com.

I don't know if SJ had a hand in squashing it - but if he did then that makes me wonder about his motives re 911.

His *hypothesis* is that thermite was used. He has found the chemical signatures of thermite in the dust from ground zero - his hypothesis is NOT proven, there are other possible sources for those chemical fingerprints.

Personally I think thermite is involved somewhere - somehow. But to claim that it's proved that it was used is wrong.

so you think a shit load of thermite will not explode:confused:;)

i do not know who you are trying to convince:confused::p

oh it burns hot that's all it does,do you know how hot it does burn?

flipping fred dibnah could not have demolished the towers that well?whats your excuse for wtc7 then?

and you do not have to remind me how many people perished on 911,and there after,thats why we are all here to get to the real truth and not the garbage told to us by the puppet neo con dictatorship,and bring the true perpetrators to real justice.

[thematrix]

so you think a shit load of thermite will not explode

No.

I *know* a shit load of thermite will not explode. This is basic science. When you ignite thermite it burns. When you ignite an explosive (say dynamite) it explodes.

You could have a contaner full of thermite the size of both the WTC towers put together and when you ignite it - it does not explode - it stays exactly where it is and it burns. If it is hot enough to burn whatever the container is made out of it will melt through that container and gravity will pull hte burning thermite downwards. Thats as much movement as will ever happen.

If you ignite an explosive it explodes and flings bits of itself with great force in all directions.

Thats the basic difference between an explosive and an incendiary. An explosive explodes - an incendiary incinerates.

Incendiary actually means "capable of causing fire"

oh it burns hot that's all it does,do you know how hot it does burn?

Yes I do. You too can find out that info by a quick google. Generally it gets to temperatures around 2500C.

Thermate burns hotter than that - and the temperature can vary depending on other additives and the size of the grains of the mixture used.

Various additives will make the thermite/thermate more "energetic" but it still will not explode, it's not an explosive.

Thermate-TH3 incendiary grenades have been used by militaries for decades, usually to stealthily disable artillery.

[lightgiver]

well if this is only a small amount exploding,imagine a shit load exploding;)

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=561e3-gLg2c

this is quick do not blink,
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn-MCCZ3O1M

it is obvious,
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=tZRAbUcUkIc

and just to clear any misunderstanding,i am not saying thermite was solely responsible,i believe explosives where used also,what type not sure as there are numerous types that you could mention.

[masonfree party]

molten metal did not occur....this is explained by www.drjudywood.com ...the false info of molten metal was put out by the likes of steven jones who are trying to cover up the use of directed energy evidence

[mynameis]

This should help if you haven't seen it before, but I can't imagine why you haven't?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=9841565
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=9841565

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=9840845
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=9840845

[bryan]

and just to clear any misunderstanding,i am not saying thermite was solely responsible,i believe explosives where used also,what type not sure as there are numerous types that you could mention.

It seems we're in total agreement, after all:)

What bothers me, though, is why does Steven Jones spend so much time talking about thermite, but never investigates what type of explosives were used to blow the towers to smithereens?

Or has he done that and I missed it?

[lightgiver]

It seems we're in total agreement, after all:)

What bothers me, though, is why does Steven Jones spend so much time talking about thermite, but never investigates what type of explosives were used to blow the towers to smithereens?

Or has he done that and I missed it?

i feel he is just trying to bring to attention that there is something present in the dust(ie thermite or thermate) and the actual collapse of the buildings being very suspicious ;)i believe him when he says thermite was present and evidential,would there be any trace of any other explosive used,i am not sure:confused:but i will research and find out:)

[lightgiver]

molten metal did not occur....this is explained by www.drjudywood.com ...the false info of molten metal was put out by the likes of steven jones who are trying to cover up the use of directed energy evidence

maybe it was a combination of both:confused:who knows but one thing for sure,there was molten metal found and it was present for weeks after,all the people who saw it IE the firemen,iron workers and all present who worked the site cannot be wrong.
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=M5n4splER9E

[ukor]

maybe it was a combination of both:confused:who knows but one thing for sure,there was molten metal found and it was present for weeks after,all the people who saw it IE the firemen,iron workers and all present who worked the site cannot be wrong.
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=M5n4splER9E

Hey don't go disturbing MFP's illusions, LG.

If MFP was to realise that Andrew Johnson was promoting special needs "science" lies on behalf of his special needs mentor Wood (the Woman With No Discernible Past Who Lies About Missing Truck Engines Where There Never Were Any Truck Engines And Other Assorted Falsified Data), why, he could burn down his house or anything, really.

[thematrix]

well if this is only a small amount exploding,imagine a shit load exploding;)


I see thermite burning - I don't see it exploding.


and just to clear any misunderstanding,i am not saying thermite was solely responsible,i believe explosives where used also,what type not sure as there are numerous types that you could mention.

I believe thermite was used - and I believe that *if* explosives were used they were not conventional ones - else there would have been residual physical evidence of that - and there isn't any.

[lightgiver]

I see thermite burning - I don't see it exploding.



I believe thermite was used - and I believe that *if* explosives were used they were not conventional ones - else there would have been residual physical evidence of that - and there isn't any.

so we both believe thermite was used then,so no problems then:)

[acebaker]

The best evidence of molten metal is the ABC news video which showed it pouring out of WTC2 just before it blew up. We were not supposed to see that, it was a mistake. They only made a few mistakes, this was one of them.

This is the sole reason we heard anything at all about molten metal. We saw it on TV, and they must maintain the illusion the TV news is reality. In this case, it was real, because it is impossible to composite a molten metal image on a hand held camera shot, in real-time.

The mission to destroy the case for molten metal was handed over to two main operatives - Steven Jones, and Judy Wood.

Jones first overstated the case - "Molten metal flowing and in pools", then gradually stepped backwards. He studied dust samples and found tiny spheres of molten iron, which could have actually come from other sources, like cutting torches. When he filed his "Request for Correction" to the NIST, he did not mention molten metal. Odd, no?

Judy Wood is trying to deny molten metal altogether. She is disingenuously associating molten metal with the "fuming", which are actually two separate things. Judy Wood and Morgan Reynolds called me on the phone back in December, and tried to convince me that the news video of molten metal was faked. I explained why this is impossible (assuming it was shown live).

Then she came out with the Hutchison Effect nonsense, and removed all doubt that she is a fraud.

No question in my mind Jones and Wood are both insiders. Their whole fight was staged, the whole melting aluminum thing, staged. A distraction.

The perps used incendiaries to melt the floor trusses, so that the floors would sag, and pull inwards on the perimeter columns. This would later be blamed on "fire".

The towers were blown up with very strong explosives of some sort, and very many of them. For the most part, we do not see individual explosions. We see a reaction. We see the towers exploding into powder from the top down. The most reasonable explanation is a low yield hydrogen fusion reaction.

This would explain the tritium, and the high cancer rates, the fuming, and the destruction. I think they placed a very large number of very small devices in every floor, and they did it during the "fireproofing upgrade" which took place from 1999-2001.

-Ace Baker

[lightgiver]

i feel a combination of methods was devised,their are other academics in this vid,siding towards explosives.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=PWgSaBT9hNU

[bryan]

At the site I linked to earlier, they claim to have worked out exactly where the bombs were placed. The theory is that the explosives were placed next to the welds (every third floor) on the main, load-bearing core columns.

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=16&MMN_position=177:177


They say their theory explains why the spires were left standing:

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=11&MMN_position=178:178

[fuggles]

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2972/wtc1sx6.th.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wtc1sx6.jpg)

[banoyes]

No question in my mind Jones and Wood are both insiders. Their whole fight was staged, the whole melting aluminum thing, staged. A distraction.

Woods has filed suit against NIST she ain't gonna face them with BS

The perps used incendiaries to melt the floor trusses, so that the floors would sag, and pull inwards on the perimeter columns. This would later be blamed on "fire".

The towers were blown up with very strong explosives of some sort, and very many of them. For the most part, we do not see individual explosions. We see a reaction. We see the towers exploding into powder from the top down. The most reasonable explanation is a low yield hydrogen fusion reaction.

This would explain the tritium, and the high cancer rates, the fuming, and the destruction. I think they placed a very large number of very small devices in every floor, and they did it during the "fireproofing upgrade" which took place from 1999-2001.

-Ace Baker
Well ..the logistics alone make this highly unlikely

The is no explosive that turns steel to dust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2hVLypbFTo
and leaves paper undamaged,yet filing cabinets disappeared
The dustification of thr WTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LW6b8JF5ls&eurl=http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=499723

It's in my recolection that the "Hutchison Effect" has been verified by other physicist,, I have no citation at this time as it meant little to me at the time.

IMO there was a combination of weapons used Thermate,high explosives and DEW
This explains the amomalys

[acebaker]

There is no Hutchison Effect. If there was, John Hutchison would take me up on my offer and I'd have to pay him $100,000.

http://acebaker.blogspot.com/2008/08/100000-hutchison-effect-challenge.html

[banoyes]

The Hutchison Effect occurs in a volume of space where the beams intersect and interfere.
http://www.rexresearch.com/hutchisn/hutchisn.htm

The results are levitation of heavy objects, fusion of dissimilar materials such as metal and wood, anomalous melting (without heating) of metals without burning adjacent material, spontaneous fracturing of metals (which separate by sliding in a sideways fashion), and both temporary and permanent changes in the crystalline structure and physical properties of metal samples.
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=157&Itemid=60

All of these are observed at the WTC ,they even have a huge fused mass of dissimilar material in a museum
No explosive account for the anomalys

DEW weapons- http://drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/ -accounts for them all

http://www.911weknow.com/forums/index.php?topic=391.msg1257

About Ace
So Ace was saying the Hutchison videos were fake, but still didn’t explicitly disagree the Hutchison Effect evidence was similar to effects seen at the WTC. Ace didn’t really fully address the fact that many videos of John’s experiments were taken by other production companies, such as www.gryphonproductions.com and www.bluebookfilms.com.

"The Hutchison Effect and 9/11 - An Ace in the Hole?"
by Andrew Johnson (ad.johnson@ntlworld.com )
The key questions in all of this seem to be:

1) Why has Ace Baker taken it upon himself to try to disprove the Hutchison Effect? Why is this so important?
2) Why has he gone to such trouble to make several different videos? (A new one appeared whilst this article was being written.)
3) Was the timing of his attack on the Hutchison Effect coincidental?
4) Why did he accuse Drs. Wood, Reynolds and Jerry Leaphart of a lack of Scientific Curiosity?
5) Why does he regard 9/11 Research as “his turf”?
6) Why does he seem reluctant to talk about the links between the Hutchison Effect evidence and WTC Evidence?
7) Why is his reaction so vehemently against the Hutchison Effect (e.g. “John Hutchison is a fraud”) with no leeway for his own error. I.e. why doesn’t he say “I am pretty sure it isn’t related to the Hutchison Effect, but there could be something here.”
8) Why is his research into the Hutchison Effect so different in character to his other research such as the Chopper 5 video?

Conclusion
I would suggest the reason is that Ace Baker knows that the Hutchison Effect is very relevant to what happened on 9/11 and he wants to discourage people from thinking this. I would suggest he did this to try to break up a small group of researchers. and to try to set them against one another.
(I suggested this idea to Ace in a follow up e-mail and he did not respond to this point).

I would suggest Ace Baker knows more than he is letting on. Who else knows?
http://www.911researchers.com/node/1141

I am always suspecious when people make blanket statements and then have little or nothing to back them up
You can't just say shit
and us Discordians kick belief out of the house

[mynameis]

There is no Hutchison Effect. If there was, John Hutchison would take me up on my offer and I'd have to pay him $100,000.

http://acebaker.blogspot.com/2008/08/100000-hutchison-effect-challenge.html

If it existed, anyone would jump at the pay day to prove their theory if it was so cost effective. Well it seems it's not real thus far. Ace has put his money where his mouth is and nobody can change that fact; simply put magical thinking is just that magical thinking.

[mynameis]

I am always suspecious when people make blanket statements and then have little or nothing to back them up
You can't just say shit
and us Discordians kick belief out of the house


Your choice of words were excellent to describe the materials below. 'No plane theory' aims and goals fall right into line with cointelpro's mentality put forth by past paid agents. I guess the sour apples don't fall too far from the tree. By no means are all people in NPT cointelpro as Ace points out. Those who were putting out the research in question are still suspect. My suspicions were based on the behaviors exhibited by the individuals and their past motives; most of the people Ace named have been caught lying or are not to be trusted based on behavior. A bet is not a boast. Therefore, I fear for those who are innocent and involved with the NPTist camp; may God or Luck protect their uncongenial ways from harm.


It is believed that upon instituting a counterintelligence program in this field, efforts should be directed with the following aims in mind:

I. Disruption and discord.

II. Creating doubts as to the wisdom of remaining in the independence movement.

III. Causing defections from the independence movement. Director to SAC, New York, Nov. 15, 1960 (p. 1 only)
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/pr.htm


Agents of Repression, By Ward Churchill, Jim Vander Wall
Shortly thereafter, the New York office responded with the recommendation of a counterintelligence program to sow "disruption and discord" within targeted groups, to bring about conditions "creating doubts as to remaining with the independence movement" and cause "defections from the independence movement" by exploiting factionalism within an organization."

http://books.google.com/books?id=uP8YRoyyNVwC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=cointelpro+disruption+discord&source=web&ots=7Z-vktflpK&sig=R97gG-2g-sQIFfBab4zvo1z5OSw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

[the nine]

i have all the archives for 3 solid days for 5 channels i haven't seen any molten lava!! only on the nbc bluescreen they showed glowing from the trade center at night!!! but its fake as it doesn't correspond with the abc footage get the drift.

its a myth implanted in your brain and christophera were is that truck going dump the molten lava in a steel skip? lmfao.

are humans so stupid

i think they were being hosed constantly down to reduced the heat..

[supertzar]

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/rubblefires.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/docs/hotspots_usgs.jpg