Prudent Advice or Propaganda? B12 Study

[awakensong]

First I'd like to know who might have funded this study. If it was the meat industry, then there might be something to be suspicious about. Otherwise..... ?This was the first news story George read last night on Coast to Coast. I remember reading a while back that the human brain began to grow as large as it is today when meat became a standard part of our diet.

"Scientists have discovered that going veggie could be bad for your brain, with those on a meat-free diet 6 times more likely to suffer brain shrinkage. The vegetarians are most likely to be deficient because the best source of the important vitamins, they say, are meat - particularly liver, yuck! - milk and fish. Vitamin B12 - a deficiency, they say, can cause anemia and inflammation of the nervous system. Yeast extracts are one of the few vegetarian foods which apparently provides good levels of the vitamin.

"The link was discovered by Oxford University scientists, who used memory tests, physical checks and brain scans to examine 107 people between the ages of 61 and 87. When the volunteers were retested 5 years later, the medics found that those with the lowest levels of vitamin B12 were also the most likely to have brain shrinkage. It confirms earlier research showing a link between brain atrophy and low levels of B12".

[kingmonkey]

All the vitamins that are in meat are available in a balanced vegetarian diet.It's only vegans who don't have a source of b12. If you look at the ages of the people in the study, that in itself speaks volumes; their generation didn't have nearly as much nutritional/health information as we do now and they probably were deficient in various vitamins along with b12, because they didn't know about them.Meat to the older generation seems to be a "cure all", but these days it doesn't need to be due to the wider range of foods available.

So it really only applies to vegans, not vegetarians.


http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

[smariot]

I laugh in the face of brain damage. Hahahahaha.

Saying you need to eat meat to get B12 is kind of funny in a sad sort of way because animals don't produce B12 either, they just collect it. The actual source of it is from bacteria.

"Eww, I don't want to eat that. Why don't you eat it for me, and then I'll just eat you."

Essentially, we humans are too clean for our own good.

[chris]

It is true that our friendly bacteria creates b12 in our guts but still, I am not sure if that can create enough b12...Our closest relatives all eat insects which are a good source of b12. I'm not saying to do that but it if the body can't get enough b12 then obviously that is not good...

Probably the best thing a vegan can do is load up on friendly bacteria...Kombucha tea is a very good source...Also I suspect that eating raw food will create better b12 yields with the bacteria than cooked.

My personal choice is to go a full on raw vegetarian diet and I'll only drink 1/3 pint of raw unpasteurized milk per day for b12 and other substances like short chain aminos and friendly bacteria. I don't think a lot of vegans would agree with that though...

Almost everyone you'll bump into will argue it's either one way or the other. However I see it as a grey area. That's why I cover all my bases with b12 from a natural source, develop a strong capacity to create my own and have minimal drawbacks...

Not saying I'm right but I'm going the safe route...

[gaias child]

B 12 deficiencies being more prevalent in vegans is also a myth, people who eat animal products have more vitamin B 12 deficiencies than vegans in general

http://www.roylretreat.com/articles/b12.html clarifying the b 12 issue.

I know lots of long term strict raw vegans many don't have deficiencies but one long term raw vegan who had the lowest b 12 levels ever recorded, but he quadrupled his levels by going on a fat free raw vegan diet.

I have personally supplemented but found that fascinating that he quadrupled his levels.

[fransetter]

B 12 deficiencies being more prevalent in vegans is also a myth, people who eat animal products have more vitamin B 12 deficiencies than vegans in general

http://www.roylretreat.com/articles/b12.html clarifying the b 12 issue.

I know lots of long term strict raw vegans many don't have deficiencies but one long term raw vegan who had the lowest b 12 levels ever recorded, but he quadrupled his levels by going on a fat free raw vegan diet.

I have personally supplemented but found that fascinating that he quadrupled his levels.

Quite true. I am vegerarian and I make Kefir (a form of yoghurt) out of unpasteurized milk and I also eat butter, and occasionally raw eggs (mixed in with the kefir to make a smoothie. I have vit. B12 deficiency caused by Addison's Disease mediated pernicious anemia. I have several friends who are vegan, and they don't have any problems at at. In fact I would defy anyone to look at them and say they are vegan. Very healthy individuals. I have to have vit. B12 injected every 4 weeks, as I am unable to absorb it.

[biblegirl]

awakensong, it sounds about as scientific and conclusive as the studies that claim fluoride prevents tooth decay...

don't know who led the study, but i'm sure your guess is pretty close ;)

[gaias child]

Quite true. I am vegerarian and I make Kefir (a form of yoghurt) out of unpasteurized milk and I also eat butter, and occasionally raw eggs (mixed in with the kefir to make a smoothie. I have vit. B12 deficiency caused by Addison's Disease mediated pernicious anemia. I have several friends who are vegan, and they don't have any problems at at. In fact I would defy anyone to look at them and say they are vegan. Very healthy individuals. I have to have vit. B12 injected every 4 weeks, as I am unable to absorb it.

Hi fransetter

Do you find the raw eggs and kefir help with B 12 ie does it help absorption? or does it make no difference? Thanks

[fransetter]

Hi fransetter

Do you find the raw eggs and kefir help with B 12 ie does it help absorption? or does it make no difference? Thanks

Yes, it does make a difference. My digestion has been much better as a result of using it. My B12 levels are affected by it, as I dont crash when my injection wears off anymore. I think I need to do a lot more in order to repair the damage which I have done with poor diet over the years. Some people tell me it can take up to 2 years before significant repairs can be made.

[awakensong]

I've done some more reading up on this, and there are many articles claiming that the less animal products, the less fat and protein we eat, the less is our requirement for "outside" B12. This makes sense. It is the same with calcium - high acid/meat diets will make a person require a higher intake of calcium to neutralize and be more alkaline.

[smashstuff]

If you eat fruit from the tree, you'll get your B12 from the bacteria on the fruit. Pesticides kill this stuff.

[awakensong]

Yes, and the same goes for eating veggies plucked from the ground and not washed, but how many people have access to either of these? Becoming "civilized" and living in cities must be one of the problems that has cropped up in the B12 deficiency.

[element]

Yes, and the same goes for eating veggies plucked from the ground and not washed, but how many people have access to either of these? Becoming "civilized" and living in cities must be one of the problems that has cropped up in the B12 deficiency.

Exactly. You just hit the nail on the head. ;)

We have fruit trees in our garden, and we're getting veggies next year.

I drink milk almost everyday, it's the only thing that makes me vegetarian. If I didn't I would be a vegan.

I think this so called study is too quick in it's judgement. Oh people! Watch it, ''university'' ''study'' ''scientist'' .
Let the mind control get in your brain ;)

[gaias child]

I've done some more reading up on this, and there are many articles claiming that the less animal products, the less fat and protein we eat, the less is our requirement for "outside" B12. This makes sense. It is the same with calcium - high acid/meat diets will make a person require a higher intake of calcium to neutralize and be more alkaline.


I have heard that too, I'm a mainly raw vegan and I do know of a guy, who was raw vegan who had the lowest b 12 levels ever recorded and he quadrupled them by cutting out all fat and lives just on fruit and has done for years and he is an endurance athlete. Amazing or what.

But then I know another fruitarian who also has completely normal b 12 levels . I know this is against what we have been taught to believe, notmany people will be aware of this, but the tests didn't lie.

I think though if someone is very malnourished they won't be able to do this and eggs and kefir do help people in those situations, but it is also amazing what our bodies are capable of.