What is Magick, the Craft and Alchemy?

[ho1ogram]

I'm wondering what people mean when they talk about magick, the craft and alchemy. This is my interpretation...

Magick and the craft I put in the same box. Each is concerned with changing or influencing external events, the outside world rather than the internal world of the self. Magick/the Craft therefore, even when used for good/positive is still a matrix trap.
Whereas alchemy is the process of transforming ourselves. I read this today in a book called The Way of the Wizard by Deepak Chopra: (bear in mind the wizard is your higher self, your infinite essence) The wizard is the teacher of alchemy. Alchemy is transformation. You are the world. When you transform yourself, the world you live in will be transformed.
This is in line with the holographic principle, you are an aspect of all that is so by changing your self the world reflects that change.

My understanding of the craft/magick is that it is an attempt to change the world first, to suit ones desires. Whereas alchemy is the process of changing yourself... to be the change you wish to see in the world. If your trying to change or influence others, whether your intent is loving or not, your trying to influence their free will.

Now I haven't really studied these subjects I've got onto them via the symbols and Sacred geometry threads and themes. So I am interested in what other people think.

[lumukanda]

i've always believed that magic is simply a level of nature that we are unable to access due to several things.
i always think of the example of taking a tv to a village that has never seen anything like it, to them, that's magic, or as arthur c clarke said :

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

it may all still be part of the matrix trap, but it still is a step up, i mean if this reality doesn't actually exist, we can do anything, many of them what we would consider magic.

remember, there is no spoon.

[ho1ogram]

i've always believed that magic is simply a level of nature that we are unable to access due to several things.
i always think of the example of taking a tv to a village that has never seen anything like it, to them, that's magic, or as arthur c clarke said :

it may all still be part of the matrix trap, but it still is a step up, i mean if this reality doesn't actually exist, we can do anything, many of them what we would consider magic.

remember, there is no spoon.

The tv analogy is more about something that one doesn't understand. Whereas magick (I use that spelling because that seems to be the way people spell it when referring to black/white magick rather than stage magic or sleight of hand) seems to be used by people who understand some subtle truths about our world... they know that the physical world can be influenced by vibrations from symbols and rituals. IMO anyway.

The no spoon analogy is more to do with alchemy I reckon... if it doesn't exist then what is the point of trying to bend it? The alchemist realises the world doesn't exist so changes his/her thoughts, words and actions accordingly. If one tries to bend a non existant spoon then one is falling into the illusion... forgetting that they are infinite energy and that the world around them reflects their inner state, their connection to the infinite source. heh, heh, it's a tricky one this...

[lumukanda]

let me try and explain myself a bit better, i am so rusty on all this stuff, i used to be into alchemy big time.

everything is energy, magic (i don't use the other spelling, it comes from the magick of gardner, lot's of which i disagree with) is simply the manipulation of this energy, we don't know the exact nature of how this works, to someone who does, us gawking in amazement must be as funny to them as the villager staring at the tv screen in amazement is to us.
you are right when you say that these people have a very keen sense of how rituals, symbols and just general power of thought can influence the world around us, magic is not magic, it is the manipulation of something that seems beyond our comprehension, and more importantly, our grasp, but thats all it is.

my take on alchemy is that it is the process by which we attain a purer self, burning away the dross to reveal the gold (our true selves), it is a path, the path i decided to follow, or the one that chose me, is the path is the path of the fool.

[ho1ogram]

G'day lumu, I'm with you here...
my take on alchemy is that it is the process by which we attain a purer self, burning away the dross to reveal the gold (our true selves), it is a path, the path i decided to follow, or the one that chose me, is the path is the path of the fool.
...except for the bit about the path of the fool... are you just taking the piss out of your self? Or am I missing something? It's not a foolish path but a wise one... magick is foolish I reckon cos then your giving power to the world outside of your being. I think I know what your saying ("man, what a journey I've embarked on" or something like that) but it'd be cool if you could clarify this. cheers, h.

[lumukanda]

hey man, i'm not taking the piss, let me explain :

THE FOOL - EL MATTO

The eternal traveller, ready for the lesson. Mind open and free, bounding into the unknown.

People who devote their energies to spirituality are called "fools" in our time; this could be a modern interpretation of the message contained in this card. If a reverent approach to life is considered foolish, perhaps society needs to rethink its premises. People waste massive amounts of energy on "Not Looking Foolish." The Fool defeats the Cold-Eyed Rationalist. The Fool is credulous, but his credo is in the Abstract Mystery.

in the fool card in the tarot pack the fool is seen with a bag over the shoulder, heading face up off a cliff with a dog yapping at his heels.
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7097/fool1fr.jpg

the bag is said to contain our earthly knowledge, the things we may need. the cliff represents the great unknown, the upturned face symbolises the fact that the true fool, or voyager, is not afraid, or more accurately, purposly indifferent to the lengths he may fall, knowing that it is in reality a blessing, a kind of heaven if you like, a beginning of great new things. the dog at his heels represents the earthly trying to drag him back.

another intersting thing is the symbolism in the fools hat, often seen on jesters.

http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/9863/jester4hv.jpg

this hat bears the same shape of the hebrew letter shin :

http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/3984/shin6mh.gif

this letter in the hebrew name for jesus, denotes the earthly aspect of jesus.
basically from what i understand, the name of god is written constisting of 3 letters, this name means god, but also means divine etc etc, all the things one would expect of god.
but when adding the letter shin, and changing the word from 3 to 4 letters, the meaning changes somewhat, meaning everything that god does, but with the earthly aspects added.
hebrew really is fascinating language, the way words aref ormed and their hidden meanings.
now what this has to do with the fool, is that he is human, earthly, but contains the godhead within him, at least that's my interpretation, and therefore his journey is blessed before he even starts. no path can lead him astray, for all paths lead to the same place.

i gained a lot of info from the book, the zelator.


'The Zelator' by Mark Hedsel is a rather intimidating 490 pages in length, 354 pages of text with an additional 136 pages comprising an appendix and bibliographic notes.

This alleged true account of the late Mark Hedsels' mystical journey following the "Way of the Fool" in his persuit of arcane wisdom is quite a read. His journey emcompasses many continents, traditions and years as he works his way through the myriad avenues of esoteric study that comprise the Western Mystery Tradition.

I was quite excited about this book in the early pages, particularily so with his chance meeting with the legendary mystic/artist Austin Osman Spare and his coincidental procurement of one of his paintings. I'm particularily fond of synchronistic occurences and there were plenty of them in the early going to keep me reading. However, I must admit that my initial infatuation with his ponderous tale dulled the further I advanced into 'the mystery' and found myself looking forward to its eventual end.

There's some very interesting material within, but I'm not sure it's worth 490 pages to find it. Anyway that's my subjective opinion. Who knows, you may discover something I missed. Such is the way with enlightenment, many are called but few are chosen.

Amazon.com: The Zelator: A Modern Initiate Explores the Ancient Mysteries (9781578631698): Mark Hedsel, David Ovason: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512J5EF2MDL.@@AMEPARAM@@512J5EF2MDL

here's another good article on the subject :

http://www.halexandria.org/dward012.htm

it's not something i follow, like a religion or something, but i think in many ways it is kind of the path i find myself on.

[i am all i am]

I'm wondering what people mean when they talk about magick, the craft and alchemy. This is my interpretation...

Magick and the craft I put in the same box. Each is concerned with changing or influencing external events, the outside world rather than the internal world of the self. Magick/the Craft therefore, even when used for good/positive is still a matrix trap.
Whereas alchemy is the process of transforming ourselves. I read this today in a book called The Way of the Wizard by Deepak Chopra: (bear in mind the wizard is your higher self, your infinite essence) This is in line with the holographic principle, you are an aspect of all that is so by changing your self the world reflects that change.

My understanding of the craft/magick is that it is an attempt to change the world first, to suit ones desires. Whereas alchemy is the process of changing yourself... to be the change you wish to see in the world. If your trying to change or influence others, whether your intent is loving or not, your trying to influence their free will.

Now I haven't really studied these subjects I've got onto them via the symbols and Sacred geometry threads and themes. So I am interested in what other people think.


You have three words basically describing the same thing.....


HERE / IN BETWEEN / THERE

FUTURE / PRESENT / PAST

TRUTH / LOVE / JOY

THOUGHT / WORD / ACTION

MIND / SOUL / BODY

MAGIC / ALCHEMY / CRAFT


.....each is a part of the whole. Instead of seeing them individually as, good/bad, right/wrong, higher/lower, superior/inferior etc., see how they function as a whole.

What could you create with magic-mind-thought-truth-future-here, craft-body-action-joy-past-there, alchemy-soul-word-love-present-in between, working together as ONE ???

As with the sacred geometrical patterns, look at how the shapes, or parts, fit together and create the form that they do.

Each part is an aspect of the totality of ALL THAT IS, so how does it fit into the ONENESS ???




With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[ho1ogram]

Thanks for the interesting info and perspectives fellas... I like it!

[celtic isis]

I'm wondering what people mean when they talk about magick, the craft and alchemy. This is my interpretation...

Magick and the craft I put in the same box. Each is concerned with changing or influencing external events, the outside world rather than the internal world of the self. Magick/the Craft therefore, even when used for good/positive is still a matrix trap.
Whereas alchemy is the process of transforming ourselves. I read this today in a book called The Way of the Wizard by Deepak Chopra: (bear in mind the wizard is your higher self, your infinite essence) This is in line with the holographic principle, you are an aspect of all that is so by changing your self the world reflects that change.

My understanding of the craft/magick is that it is an attempt to change the world first, to suit ones desires. Whereas alchemy is the process of changing yourself... to be the change you wish to see in the world. If your trying to change or influence others, whether your intent is loving or not, your trying to influence their free will.

Now I haven't really studied these subjects I've got onto them via the symbols and Sacred geometry threads and themes. So I am interested in what other people think.

I've been reading up on alchemy recently and to be honest i got so bored i left it in the end. I stand no chance of ever being an alchemist lol and really it's down to not being a genius and also my lack of interest lol


As to changing the world first through magick or the craft (also in freemasonry)...well surely that is a good thing, changing the world, even according to your own desires so long as they are good?

You will say how do we define 'good' but by good i mean fairness for all, repsect, understanding and tolerance...isn't this what all parents do, direct and influence their children to follow their footsteps in life, not necessarily by forcing their will on them, not in all cases anyway.

sadly the human race is much too stupid to ever be able to live in peace without being dictated to, i know arnie and the like see it this way. If the human race had a shift in consciousness then it would be fine but i look at all the badness around me, lack of respect day to day...it will take a blooming miracle :(


is it such a bad thing to try an influence people's own free will? Some people should never be allowed to be free, judging by the people i see around me.

Omg i'd love to be a dictator lol :D

[celtic isis]

sorry my post posted twice as usual!

[i am all i am]

this letter in the hebrew name for jesus, denotes the earthly aspect of jesus.
basically from what i understand, the name of god is written constisting of 3 letters, this name means god, but also means divine etc etc, all the things one would expect of god.
but when adding the letter shin, and changing the word from 3 to 4 letters, the meaning changes somewhat, meaning everything that god does, but with the earthly aspects added.
hebrew really is fascinating language, the way words aref ormed and their hidden meanings.
now what this has to do with the fool, is that he is human, earthly, but contains the godhead within him, at least that's my interpretation, and therefore his journey is blessed before he even starts. no path can lead him astray, for all paths lead to the same place.

I reread this part and remembered a numerology book that I read by a freemason that was setting the record straight because of the mis-information that he saw. The book was written in the early 1800's from memory.

Anyway, while discussing the number four, he made note of the fact that there was no religion prior to the christian religion that used a three letter word to describe "God". There was Gott, Orsi, Atum, Dues, Odin, etc, etc.

Maybe he didn't know this about the Hebrew name being three letters, or maybe that was part of some further hidden knowledge that he wasn't willing to reveal ???

Maybe it shows a connection between the jews and the christians because they are both the only ones that have used a three letter word to describe "God" with ???

Well, I thought it was interesting at the time of reading it as it stuck out like dogs balls to me.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[celtic isis]

I reread this part and remembered a numerology book that I read by a freemason that was setting the record straight because of the mis-information that he saw. The book was written in the early 1800's from memory.

Anyway, while discussing the number four, he made note of the fact that there was no religion prior to the christian religion that used a three letter word to describe "God". There was Gott, Orsi, Atum, Dues, Odin, etc, etc.

Maybe he didn't know this about the Hebrew name being three letters, or maybe that was part of some further hidden knowledge that he wasn't willing to reveal ???

Maybe it shows a connection between the jews and the christians because they are both the only ones that have used a three letter word to describe "God" with ???

Well, I thought it was interesting at the time of reading it as it stuck out like dogs balls to me.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

you're right there i am all i am...very interesting.

how about le grand architect d'universe lol how many letters is that!

sorry i'm in a stupid mood today!

i see a lot of pyramids like 'illuminated ones' in french cathedrals and churches with 4 hebrew letters inside and it's meant to be god's name...i forget what it is now. so there's 4 hebrew letters but you say them as for 3 letters...is that it? It's 4 letters but a 3 letter word? I'm confused :confused:

[eternal_spirit]

The "Occult" is the oldest known religion. It is the secret doctrine and mysterious practice involving the action or influence of supernatural agencies or some secret knowledge of them, which transcend the natural senses, to seek their influence in our present or future lives, or the lives of others... The Bible teaches the Occult is from the Devil (Lev.20, Deut.18, Acts 16)

[eternal_spirit]

There are Three Kinds of The Occult:
1- "Divination" (http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Astrology/Divination.htm)(Astrology - Fortune-tellers): (http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Astrology/Divination.htm)
The attempt to "foretell or explore the future", to shape our lives according to what is coming:
- Astrology, horoscope, zodiac, Psychics.
- Tarot cards, crystal balls, palm reading, rod and pendulum, snail shells, coconuts.
- Numerology, psychometry, dreams.
- Telepathy, clairvoyance.
2- "Magic" (http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Magic/MAGIC.htm) or "Magick": (http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Magic/MAGIC.htm)
The attempt "to control the present", our lives, the lives of others, or events of nature, by ceremonies, charms, or spells believed to have supernatural powers. Some call it "Magick" to distinguish it from the "magicians" who entertain an audience with tricks and illusions.
- White magic, black magic, sorcery, ghosts.
- Witchcraft, Wicca, witch doctors.
- Satanism, Black Mass. (http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Satanism/Satanism.htm)
- Spells, curses, potions, superstitions, charms, fetishes, talismans, amulets, prayers, spoils (despojos, riegos).. (http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Satanism/Satanism.htm).
3- "Spiritism"... "Spiritualism": (http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Spirtualism/Spirtualism.htm)
- "Spiritism" attempts "to communicate with the death", to receive information and help from them. "Spiritualism" is the same, but with the sacrilege of using Christian prayers and rites.
- Churches, Membership
- Sceance
- Ouija boars, ghosts, phantoms.
- Spiritulism and Christianity
4- "Santeria", "Macumba", "Woodoo": (http://religion-cults.com/Ancient/Africa/Africa1.htm)
These African practices have "the three kinds of occultism", with the sacrilege of using Christian Saints and even Jesus to masquerade many devils.
5- Alchemy (http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Alchemy/Alchemy.htm): (http://religion-cults.com/Occult/Alchemy/Alchemy.htm)The elixir of life and gold, can also be Occultism