on how to attain liberation or "enlightenment"

[rossus]

Attaining Nirvana, Eden or "Spiritual Enlightenment"*
can only be done by stop giving credibility to the Individual Self and the world it perceives...
(both "good" and "bad", "ugly" and "beautiful")

by doing investigation into the nature of one's own being
one can come to the realization that he is not the Individual Self (a.k.a. the personality)...

but instead,
that he is THAT which creates (brahma), sustains (vishnu) and destroys (shiva)
the illusion of being the Individual Self (the body) and the world perceived by it.

so if we no longer want to experience ourself as the Individual Self and all the suffering that is associated with it,
then we need to stop sustaining it...

for this we need to do investigation into the nature of our Self, to see how the mechanisms work...
only from realizing how the mechanisms work (brahma-vishnu-shiva)
we are be able to stop creating and sustaining the Invidual Self...

when there is no experience of Individual Self as the body
there is no enjoyment found in pleasure, and no suffering is found in pain...

instead,
one experiences himself as Pure Unconditionally Loving Bliss independent of worldly circumstances.
free from the world, yet still living in it.

so what must be done to keep the body alive and healthy...
or try to help other people... can still be done.

but nothing in the world can please or dissapoint him anymore.




wether one wants to be liberated from the experience of being the Individual Self,
is personal preference though.

but obviously the elite preference is that we do not become free from the world,
because it is our desire and lust which they exploit
to use as fuel for their Babylon System of material excess.

if i am not mistaken
the reason why an inverted pentagram has it's top facing downwards

is because the top represents the spirit (god/love/true-self), and the bottom means the material world.
"satanists" turn it upside down,

to show they worship the material world of the body,
they worship flesh... not spirit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~v

*as i know different people have different interpretations for the term "spiritual enlightenment"
i used the term in the sense of being free from suffering,
and always be in blissfull loving happiness.

for more information,
read "I am that" (http://www.nonduality.com/asmi.htm) by Nisargadatta

[zero1]

Nice. :cool: More people should seriously go for it if they think they got the stuff.

[lightgiver]

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=7gpjJUbPfzY;)
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=DMxKffswZ1Q
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=_1UEXBXNyyQ

enjoy:)

[shankara]

Is it necessary to detach completely from the world and from personal identity to achieve liberation? I'm not sure of your perspective (it seems like the OP does acknowledge living in the world but also being free from it) but there are many "Neo-Vedantists" who believe that the world and individual identity is nothing but illusion. I believe that the notion of God or the Absolute is not divided between the "Real" and "Maya," "Flesh" and "Spirit," or "the Self" and the illusory "Ego".

The absolute is All-That-Is, and is all-inclusive. It is the nature of the mind to divide and separate, to declare that God is "this," but not "that," when really the absolute is so free that it is able to play at being bonded without incurring any real bondage. What is the substance of a dream but the consciousness of the dreamer?

True liberation is both transcending your individual personality and the surface-appearance of the world as a purely material place of separate forms to become aware of the whole of your Self, as infinite unified consciousness, as well living as an individual personality existing completely and joyously in the world (which is fully real as Divine Consciousness) as well. The absolute expresses itself in both the Unity as well as the Multiplicity. Individualization does not necessarily mean separation.

It is possible to be in a detached, almost nihilistic state, where one does not feel pleasure nor pain, but it is also possible to experience the Bliss of Sat-Chid-Ananda (Existence-Consciousness-Bliss) that is at the foundation of all existence, including the world. If there is no individual existence, who exactly are we trying to liberate or awaken? Illusory individual souls trapped in illusory Maya of an illusory world? Why not just go to our caves, hide from this illusory world, and bliss-out?

[phonicboom]

yes there is no one to awaken. Only to awaken from the notion that you are someone.

take part in the comedy but do not attach yourself to the role.

..and once awake, care and love for the world is not lost; it is made larger than can be imagined as it no longer splits to this or that.

[drael]

While it appears that u have largely comprehended this through the indian perspective (which is established and fairly pure), you are most certainly understanding the realities of duality, and truth.

Keep doing it!

[shankara]

yes there is no one to awaken. Only to awaken from the notion that you are someone.


So why awaken at all? What is awakening? Who is this "you" you are speaking too? Who profits by my awakening? Surely it is not the All, not the Supreme Self, because that is always free, pure, still, and awake. Not the world, or the rest of humanity (which is also the All), for that remains in ignorance and illusion, until they have their own awakening. You claim that the Absolute is all that I am, with no-individual personhood (not a someone, no one here to awaken), but when I do awaken, the only effect is on "me" the individual soul. The fact that one individual has awakened doesn't mean that the world has awakened. It is me as an individual soul that realizes it's nature and escapes illusion.

Are you are telling me that the highest goal for me, the non-entity, (not a someone, or a personality) to pursue is the escape of myself, an illusory non-existent individual soul, from an illusory non-existent bondage in an illusory non-existent world?

The Absolute manifests Itself in many forms. We can accept the multiplicity and individuality of each of those manifestations while also accepting the unity of That which is manifested.

[marpat]

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=7gpjJUbPfzY;)
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=DMxKffswZ1Q
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=_1UEXBXNyyQ

enjoy:)


They are beautiful picture but only symbolic. The chakras do not really look like that. The number of petals reflects specific things:

Muladhara, 4 petal, the 4 elements
Svadisthana, 6 petals, the six negative emotions
Manipura, 10 petals, the 10 vital airs
Anahata, 12 petals, the signs of the zodiac
Visuddha, 16 petals, the 16 kalas
Ajna, 2 petals, positive and negative force, feeding into the nadis.

[lightgiver]

Yes marpat,i know,just an helping hand for those not aware of the chakras:)

[cleft_asunder]

Yes marpat,i know,just an helping hand for those not aware of the chakras:)

I really gotta stop telling people this, because it's quite redundant and I don't see the point anymore given that the multiverse is always in a state of perfection in it's imperfection, but the chakara system has nothing to do with enlightenment. There are two different forms of meditation, both going in opposite directions but aren't incompatible. One is no-mind mediation, which pertains to enlightenment. The other is mind-meditation "magic" abilities, such as astral projection.

[awakensong]

Are you are telling me that the highest goal for me, the non-entity, (not a someone, or a personality) to pursue is the escape of myself, an illusory non-existent individual soul, from an illusory non-existent bondage in an illusory non-existent world?

The Absolute manifests Itself in many forms. We can accept the multiplicity and individuality of each of those manifestations while also accepting the unity of That which is manifested.
I was sorry to see no one had responded to this yet, but maybe it needs to be given more time. I'm in complete and total agreement about having or manifesting an individual soul/ experience and yet being One at the very root, core or foundation of existence.

I do not go along with those who say the whole thing is manipulated and is an illusion; I believe we are here to experience our bliss in physical form, to experience love and fulfillment which cannot be experienced in the state of reverie or nothingness, since Consciousness cannot act upon Itself but needs to divide or "seems to" separate into otherselves. It is that this well-intentioned experience has been hijacked or overtaken by malevolent energies that is in question and must be dealt with, in my opinion.

[shankara]

I was sorry to see no one had responded to this yet, but maybe it needs to be given more time. I'm in complete and total agreement about having or manifesting an individual soul/ experience and yet being One at the very root, core or foundation of existence.

I do not go along with those who say the whole thing is manipulated and is an illusion; I believe we are here to experience our bliss in physical form, to experience love and fulfillment which cannot be experienced in the state of reverie or nothingness, since Consciousness cannot act upon Itself but needs to divide or "seems to" separate into otherselves. It is that this well-intentioned experience has been hijacked or overtaken by malevolent energies that is in question and must be dealt with, in my opinion.

Cool, someone finally agrees with me! :D So what do you think the source of the malevolent energies are? I was listening to David on Coast to Coast the other night and he said that you have to go back to the source, and he thinks that above or beyond reptilians is some kind of disembodied negative consciousness. I agree, but I'm a believer that all is fundamentally One, so that even that negative consciousness is really a part of God consciousness that is being expressed that way for whatever reason, though as a seemingly separate entity it doesn't realize it's true identity. Or something. I'm still trying to figure it all out!

I've got an idea on who the multiplicity and separation came from the oneness. It's like when I'm writing something, the work that I'm writing is just me, my own thoughts while I'm writing it, but after it's written, I can look over it and analyze it, as if it is a separate thing, yet really it is still my own thoughts. So it is both me and separate from me at once. This would apply to humans, or anything really, as if God's creations are both God yet separate individual things at the same time. Thoughts?

[phonicboom]

the root of all problems is the "I" concept :)

[shankara]

Even "I Am"?

[zen_fox]

Good stuff. I'm no closer to enlightenment though. I'm giving up.

[awakensong]

Hi Shankara,

The only problem I have with what you say is the idea of using the term "God", but I understand it is a very sensitive and personal application for each person. For me, it is just Consciousness which as David Icke says, is All Possibility. No one is all good or all bad. I think it is a matter of vibration - wherever a person is vibrating within the All Possibility, that makes them "good" or "evil" or in between somewhere.

I especially liked where David said the other night on the radio, that we must stop cooperating with our captivity and unify ourselves to overcome where all this is headed. It has reminded me of a what I think of as a truism in many of the world's ancient writings, and it's even in the western bible, that we are not to be overcome by evil, but are to overcome evil with good.

So I've been thinking what is it that is good with which evil can be overcome - the negative energies, which of course, in a duality are going to be there, but don't have to be the overpowering force? Well, what is being used to enslave us (the evil)? Why not live as free (the good) instead of as enslaved? Instead of having anything to do with matrix programs such as religion, education, military, government, banking, science, media, competition - which are the things I would call negative energies being used to enslave us - why not live as humans are intended to, simply and naturally, in cooperation with nature and one another, in order to experience love and fulfillment? Icke talked so much about how the PTB have no empathy, no conscience, but it is what makes us so different from them. Where has human empathy gone these days, and how can it come back?

This seemed to me to be what Icke was saying the other night, how about you?

[awakensong]

Good stuff. I'm no closer to enlightenment though. I'm giving up.
I think you have REACHED enlightenment to say that! The conclusion I've come to myself is that we do NOT need to evolve or be enlightened - we need to be returned to our knowledge of the truth about life and the way the universe works, and have our proper DNA going. All of this evolution and enlightenment stuff is, as far as I'm concerned, another trick to keep us discouraged so we'll just throw in the towel. Maybe this is what makes some wish to abide in a place called "Nothingness", which to me is a relinquishing of the soul-self. I think they are after our souls, and they have lots of ways of going about it. I just want to demand the return of my knowledge and correct DNA, and probably the best way to go about it is what I said in my previous post = overcoming evil with good.

[awakensong]

the root of all problems is the "I" concept :)
Even "I AM"?

Right, they aren't going to need the microchip if they can get us to reject our own "I" concept.

I understand what all this means, too. I was a student of the gurus, have their books, printed out their articles, and spent lots of time at forums, and even opened one of my own for a while. I just don't agree with the way it's being applied.

[marpat]

Attaining Nirvana, Eden or "Spiritual Enlightenment"*
can only be done by stop giving credibility to the Individual Self and the world it perceives...
(both "good" and "bad", "ugly" and "beautiful")

by doing investigation into the nature of one's own being
one can come to the realization that he is not the Individual Self (a.k.a. the personality)...

but instead,
that he is THAT which creates (brahma), sustains (vishnu) and destroys (shiva)
the illusion of being the Individual Self (the body) and the world perceived by it.

so if we no longer want to experience ourself as the Individual Self and all the suffering that is associated with it,
then we need to stop sustaining it...

for this we need to do investigation into the nature of our Self, to see how the mechanisms work...
only from realizing how the mechanisms work (brahma-vishnu-shiva)
we are be able to stop creating and sustaining the Invidual Self...

when there is no experience of Individual Self as the body
there is no enjoyment found in pleasure, and no suffering is found in pain...

instead,
one experiences himself as Pure Unconditionally Loving Bliss independent of worldly circumstances.
free from the world, yet still living in it.

so what must be done to keep the body alive and healthy...
or try to help other people... can still be done.

but nothing in the world can please or dissapoint him anymore.




wether one wants to be liberated from the experience of being the Individual Self,
is personal preference though.

but obviously the elite preference is that we do not become free from the world,
because it is our desire and lust which they exploit
to use as fuel for their Babylon System of material excess.

if i am not mistaken
the reason why an inverted pentagram has it's top facing downwards

is because the top represents the spirit (god/love/true-self), and the bottom means the material world.
"satanists" turn it upside down,

to show they worship the material world of the body,
they worship flesh... not spirit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~v

*as i know different people have different interpretations for the term "spiritual enlightenment"
i used the term in the sense of being free from suffering,
and always be in blissfull loving happiness.

for more information,
read "I am that" (http://www.nonduality.com/asmi.htm) by Nisargadatta

So anybody who is a die hard materialist is a satanist? materialists do worship the material world, which is the opposite of the religious person.

[awakensong]

Why worship anything? Why not just live and let live? Does there have to be all this sorting and judgement - differentiation between material and spiritual?

Satanists do not necessarily focus on the body or the materialistic; they can be VERY spiritual, but on the negative side, the dark side. And what would be the opposite of a Satanist, if things must be "named"?

[marpat]

Why worship anything? Why not just live and let live? Does there have to be all this sorting and judgement - differentiation between material and spiritual?

Satanists do not necessarily focus on the body or the materialistic; they can be VERY spiritual, but on the negative side, the dark side. And what would be the opposite of a Satanist, if things must be "named"?

A godist?

I think the whole point of worship is to try and attract the spiritul force and influence of what is being worshipped. You make yourself passive to that active force and by natural law it should be attracted to you, nature abhorrs a vaccum as the saying goes.

[drael]

Only fate can take u there. U cant force it.

If ur really keen, take a million psycedelic drugs and run into the forest naked. Of course ull get locked up, but u learn from it! :D

Aint nothing sweet about the straight path. Its hard yards, emotional suffering, CNS overload and all the rest. The bliss is only at the end, so dont rush, just take ur souls sweet time.

I think most people that really seek are only a stones throw away anyway.

Instead of looking at the stars and saying why; Just look at the stars.