DOGMA - Sorcerer's (aka Pope) dark spell

[tinmenace]

According to Eliphas Levi, there are three fundamental pricipals of magick (magick being the ability to change the outcome of something by using one's will). They are:

1. That the material universe is only a small part of total reality, which includes many other planes and modes of consciousness. Full knowledge and full power in the universe are only attainable through awareness of these other aspects of reality. One of the most important of these levels or aspects of reality is the "astral light", a cosmic fluid which may be molded by will into physical forms.

2. That human willpower is a real force, capable of achieving absolutely anything, from the mundane to the miraculous.

3. That the human being is a microcosm, a miniature of the macrocosmic universe, and the two are fundamentally linked. Causes set in motion on one level may equally have effects on another.

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphas_Levi#Theory_of_magic)


I want to concentrate primarily on the first principal, which concerns light and the manipulation thereof.

I believe truly that dogma is the most powerful spell cast upon the people by the highest ranking sorcerer - the pope.

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/popesorcerer.jpg



I was looking at various definitions of dogma. Merriam Webster Online (http://m-w.com/dictionary/dogma) says this:

Main Entry: dog·ma

1 a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church



Yep, sounds right, but how does it grip people's minds and souls so tightly?



Dogma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has a similar definition:

Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization, thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed or doubted. While in the context of religion the term is largely descriptive, outside of religion its current usage tends to carry a pejorative connotation — referring to concepts as being "established" only according to a particular point of view, and thus one of doubtful foundation.


This still doesn't help me to understand how this is a spell. So, I went looking for answers at the Vatican's website (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a2.htm#88), and this is where I found the "LIGHT" references I was looking for:

There is an organic connection between our spiritual life and the dogmas. Dogmas are lights along the path of faith; they illuminate it and make it secure. Conversely, if our life is upright, our intellect and heart will be open to welcome the light shed by the dogmas of faith.

Translated: There is a connection between your reality and spells. Dogmas are the spells found along the path of illusion; they keep you from seeing anything outside of this path because the light (spell) blinds you (if a flashlight is being shone in your face, you can't see who's holding it), and so it secures our path for you. If you know what's good for you, you will welcome this spell...or else

The darkest form of magick is forcing YOUR will upon another.

The more I read the Vatican's BS, the more references I noticed about light and the worship of it. They tell you it's the worship of the SON, but in the meantime, they're worshiping the SUN. So, while they chant their little spells over their congregations, they're talking about the SUN, and the 'faithful' think it's about the SON.

This is blatant manipulation of LIGHT (sun/son), and it's right in our faces. Go back and read principal # 1 of magick.

[i am all i am]

Cool thread sunshine !!! http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8071/coolsmileygp1.gif

NEWS BRIEF: "80,000 Hear Pope's Sermon On The Mount", by Alan Philips on the Mount of the Beatitudes, Electronic Telegraph, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/Saturday, 25 March 2000, Issue 1765..
"The Pope preached an updated Sermon on the Mount yesterday, urging the world's youth to become 'courageous apostles' of the teachings that Jesus pronounced on the shore of the Sea of Galilee. More than 80,000 people gathered for a Papal Mass on a site that looked at times like a religious rock festival. Young people came from 80 countries, clutching guitars, tambourines, and bongo drums. When the Mass was over, the site was alive with people dancing amid national flags and papal banners."
http://www.cephasministry.com/world_pope_black_magick.html

http://www.cephasministry.com/popecbs.jpg http://www.cephasministry.com/popesata.jpg
Is that cross upside down ???
http://www.cephasministry.com/inverted_cross_pope.gif http://www.cephasministry.com/popeisra.jpg

Well, well, well, what does this tell us then ???





With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[lumukanda]

good god, so fucking blatant too, and no one said a word.

[bigus_dickus]

They tell you it's the worship of the SON, but in the meantime, they're worshiping the SUN. So, while they chant their little spells over their congregations, they're talking about the SUN, and the 'faithful' think it's about the SON.

how are they worshiping the sun? how does anyone worship the sun?

(i have always had this question)

[thoth]

Yes, of course. Dogma helps to contain people in 3 dimensional thinking only, limiting their potentiality for alternate realities to exist. Its actually how WE put a spell on ourselves and eachother. The Pope just looks evil!

[tinmenace]

how are they worshiping the sun? how does anyone worship the sun?

(i have always had this question)

The sun is the brightest source of light we have, and if you can manipulate light to change reality, then that's quite a neat trick indeed. People worship things far less powerful than the sun, so sun worship is not a very big surprise. It's the source of THEIR power because they don't have inner light to draw from.

[phoenix1]

The First Law says UNIVERSE , already I have a problem with that, I know Levi mentions different planes of existance, therefore he should have said Multiverse.(also the laws are Mutable and Immutable in aspect)

By deffinition, Uni is One refered to by Levi as "Universe" ,though I think we know there are many Multiverses encompassed and expressed within and without with the Infinite ALL. With reference to Photonic light, and the Asral Light and the REAL LIGHT I think the REAL LIGHT is the inner light.

The astral light, well that is what we tap into when we tap into the innate energy grid.

Contol of the Astral via Dogma is hideosly insidious. And you are right Tin, they are and have been doing this for eons. Literally.

There is no badness in SUN appreciation but worship is different . To worship is to be subservient, and I alighn with the NO GODS NO MASTERS outlook.

However there is much in the Astal, at all sorts of levels, some well beyond the comprehension of the masses. Because we have been effectivly severed from the source and the heartflame which SHOULD be in a harmonic ballance


Dogma deals with morality at the base level

Dogma = what is expected of another, or visa versa. Morality doesn't really direct someone to search for good Ethics Ethics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So we are thrown back to dogma and morallity.

The Pope, as to whether he is the Greatest "Worker" I think personally from what I have heard The BLACK POPE is the white Popes Master.

That "Man" is Count Peter Hans Von Kolvenbach, and he Is The Jusuit general, directly answerable to the Luciferian Concept.

LOL now ive forgot where i was till i post this .

Great thread Tin.:D

[tinmenace]

Hey Bud,

Right! The Black Pope. What an elusive character indeed.

[fuknut]

good god, so fucking blatant too, and no one said a word.

I so totally agree. Makes you sick and even sicker watching the sheeple follow their leader :eek:

[tinmenace]

good god, so fucking blatant too, and no one said a word.

Well, there is a lot being said about it. I mention it in this thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3234&page=2). It's called St Peter's Cross because apparently the dude was crucified upside down. Then he was buried where the St Peter's Cathedral now stands. So, yeah full of symbolism....on and on and on...that's all it's about.

I was reading a little bit about Catholic Mass yesterday. It's so ritualistic, that I don't know how anyone can see that as anything other than Ritual Magick. Turning wine into blood (symbolically of course) and then drinking it....wtf??

[i am all i am]

Well, there is a lot being said about it. I mention it in this thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3234&page=2). It's called St Peter's Cross because apparently the dude was crucified upside down. Then he was buried where the St Peter's Cathedral now stands. So, yeah full of symbolism....on and on and on...that's all it's about.

I was reading a little bit about Catholic Mass yesterday. It's so ritualistic, that I don't know how anyone can see that as anything other than Ritual Magick. Turning wine into blood (symbolically of course) and then drinking it....wtf??

G'day Tinmenace.

Yeah.....http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/170/tknowgv0.gif

Here's something that I read and liked it so much I made a copy of it...

Millions of Americans go to church every Sunday and contemplate a story about a man who was born 2,000 years ago, the son of a divine father and a human mother. This man, according to the story, grew up to raise the dead and perform other miracles until, at age 33, he was tortured and killed and then rose from the tomb to rejoin his father in heaven. Ever since then, one of the most sacred rituals of this story's adherents is to symbolically drink the blood and consume the body of this son of God.

I intend no disrespect to those who have faith in this particular story. I grew up inside that faith myself; during the catechism classes of my Catholic childhood, I was taught that Communion is not symbolic at all, that every Sunday at Mass we truly do eat the body of Christ.

By any measure, that is a wild story.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/grail_5a.htm

What is truly amazing is that many who perform this ritual do not question, let alone understand, it's meaning.


With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[james777]

IAMALLIAM;

yourquote, "What is truly amazing is that many who perform this ritual do not question, let alone understand, it's meaning"

You're actually correct about something!!!!!! Congratulations!!!! But.......many do question and understand its meaning. See, Jesus, during the last supper, with his closest followers, told them of his upcoming crucifixion and explained to them what would happen and why. He broke bread and passed it around and said "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.", In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you." It's a type of reverance and rememberance for what Jesus did and why he did it. Good, now maybe more can understand the meaning!

[i am all i am]

Chapter 21 - Why do we eat Jesus?

If you are looking for an easy way to prove to yourself that Jesus is not God, try this simple experiment. Take a small child, perhaps age 4 or 5, to church on Sunday and let the child watch communion. You may experience something like this:

Child: Daddy, what are they doing?

Daddy: Well dear, this part of the service is called communion.

Child: What's communion?

Daddy: Well, it's where... Well, it's... you know, what we do is we eat Jesus' body to... Well, it's complicated. Let me see...

Child: We eat Jesus' BODY???

Daddy: Yes. Well, no, but...

Child: Why do we need to eat Jesus??? I don't want to eat Jesus!!!

Daddy: No, no, no. It's OK honey. It's OK. Be quiet now, don't cry in church. Shhhh. Shush. Now it's OK.

Child: But Daddy, I don't want to eat Jesus!

Daddy: Mom, help me out here.

Mom: Honey, it is a holy sacrament. You see, we eat Jesus' body and we drink his blood because...

Child: I have to drink his blood too??? Mommy, I don't want to drink blood!!!

Mom: Honey, calm down! You don't actually drink his blood.

Child: But that man up there is holding up a cup and he is saying that it is Jesus' blood! Mommy! I want to leave! I am leaving!

Mom, Dad: No honey! Wait! We can't leave now!

And so on...


Because Christians have been participating in the communion rite for many years, they tend to forget just how bizarre this ritual is. But any child sees it with fresh eyes. And many children are, naturally, horrified at the thought of eating Jesus' body and then drinking his blood. It is grotesque in the extreme and a child implicitly understands that.

Have you ever wondered where this ritual came from, or why billions of people would participate in a ritual that is this bizarre? First, let's look at the part of the Bible that prescribes the ritual. You find it in Mark, Chapter 14:

And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take; this is my body." And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. And he said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.
There are a few lines in Luke chapter 22 that are nearly identical.

Jesus gets far more graphic, however, in John chapter 6:53-55:

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
To any normal person, this sounds very much like the script of a gruesome horror film. It sounds like some sort of revolting satanic ritual. It definitely does not sound like the words of the all-loving creator of the universe.

Imagine that you are a normal person, and you have never been exposed to Christianity before. Now imagine that a Christian comes up to you and quotes John 6:53. Any normal adult would rightfully assume the Christian to be insane. Thus, you never see a bumper sticker that says "John 6:53."

However, the assumption is accurate. The dictionary describes cannibalism in the following way:

The usually ritualistic eating of human flesh by a human being
What Jesus is demanding is cannibalism.

You may be beginning to see a pattern here. We have already discussed in chapter 14 that God, in the Old Testament, is quite captivated by animal sacrifice. God tells people how they are to sacrifice animals in minute detail. In the New Testament things move to a completely new level and God requires human sacrifice. God is not the only one who gets excited by human sacrifice -- a flood of Christians saw the movie "The Passion of the Christ."

Now we learn that the human sacrifice is not enough, and we need to ritualistically cannibalize Jesus' body, and satanically drink his blood, to have "eternal life."

What does your common sense tell you about all of this? Look at it through the eyes of a child. What we are talking about here is cannibalism, and what Christians are doing looks exactly like a pagan/satanic ritual. If you are a Christian, the two questions you may be asking yourself right now are:

1. Why in the world am I, as a sane individual, participating in ritualistic cannibalism? How in the world did I stoop to this point?

2. Why would an all-powerful, all-loving God demand that I do this? What sort of God am I worshipping?

As we saw in section 2, God condones slavery, demands animal and human sacrifice, hates women and revels in the annihilation of children. Cannibalism is just one more thing to add to this pile of insanity.

The source of the ritual

If you are curious, here is why Christianity contains this bizarre ritual. It is not the case that an all-powerful God in heaven demands this behavior. All of the rituals in Christianity are completely man-made. Christianity is a snow ball that rolled over a dozen pagan religions. As the snowball grew, it freely attached pagan rituals in order to be more palatable to converts. The process is described succinctly and accurately in the book "The Da Vinci Code" by Dan Brown. The book offers these two accounts of the acretion process:

· "The vestiges of pagan religion in Christian symbology are undeniable. Egyptian sun disks became the halos of Catholic saints. Pictograms of Isis nursing her miraculously conceived son Horus became the blueprint for our modern images of the Virgin Mary nursing Baby Jesus. And virtually all the elements of the Catholic ritual - the miter, the altar, the doxology, and communion, the act of "God-eating" - were taken directly from earlier pagan mystery religions."

· "Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian God Mithras - called the Son of God and the Light of the World - was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 is also the birthday or Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans."
To any normal person, the practice of communion is one of the most bizarre things that Christians do. Jesus' cannibalistic tendencies offer explicit evidence that Jesus is not God.

When you research it historically, you realize that Jesus was a human being like any other. The mythology of his birth, life and death are pagan stories that are all man-made.

http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/god21.htm



With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[tinmenace]

Fantastic. Thanks for posting that.

[james777]

You're welcome, TINMENACE!

[tinmenace]

You're welcome, TINMENACE!

Oh sorry sweetie, didn't see you waving for attention. Good job to you too! *patting james*

[tinmenace]

Whomever made this a sticky....thank you :)

[binhdinh_khiwarrior]

[QUOTE=phoenix1;40554]The First Law says UNIVERSE , already I have a problem with that, I know Levi mentions different planes of existance, therefore he should have said Multiverse.(also the laws are Mutable and Immutable in aspect)


I believe that what he means by this statement is that there is only "one" universe as such (i'm talking about about a physical see, touch, taste kinda thing) howevr within this "one" universe are dimentions, many dimentions and within these dimentions realms of conciousness, all packaged together into one big envolope....

[lydia78]

191

[fullfathomfive]

I believe that what he means by this statement is that there is only "one" universe as such (i'm talking about about a physical see, touch, taste kinda thing) howevr within this "one" universe are dimentions, many dimentions and within these dimentions realms of conciousness, all packaged together into one big envolope....

...which got lost in the post.

[teslafire]

Whomever made this a sticky....thank you :)

*thumbs up*
The war on spirit through culture and religion is so hard to see for some people, because they equate corrupt with haliburton and military industrial complex etc, but the invisible prison of how to think is what allows people to ignorantly give consent to whatever ridiculously mindboggling scam the elite are cooking up. These spells of a false god (dogma= am god) are very real, and people are finally seeing how deep the programming goes as more and more is unveiled.

(sorry for the long post, just some stuff i had to get off my chest)

[tinmenace]

Thanks Teslafire :)

[kblood]

Yes well, you would probably all be surprised if you knew how much evil that really hides in our world. I dont see these beings as evil though, more like lost. Good beings seeing them might in fact find it easier to believe in god. Anyone seen "From Dusk till Dawn"? One of the best quotes in it is probably that one. The one where the criminal tells the priest that if there are vampires like these, there have to be a god as well.

I have been able to do all 3 of these kinds of magick. Sometimes I will things to happen, because I know it is something that those around me wouldnt want. Like if someone I know mortally wound another person in an outburst of anger, then I simply take it back, and make sure that the person knows what he or she did was wrong. Miracles like this inspires goodness I think, even though it is willed upon them. These days I fear a fate might be willed upon someone I like, and that I cannot stop it. One of the cycles in my life is always finding something that I cannot change no matter how hard I try. That something is simply meant to be, even though it seems evil.

Controlling light and energies is one of the most usefull I think. Allows for great healing, and good sex :) Good luck with trying these kinds of magick. Just beware that karma effects from magic is probably even more visible than from anything else, so doing good magic that isnt forced upon others is always the best way to go.

[kblood]

I am feeling a bit depressed by the way, so might show in the previous post. Please take it all with a pinch of salt :o

[tinmenace]

...so doing good magic that isnt forced upon others is always the best way to go.

Right! It's the ONLY way to go, in my opinion.

Hope you feel better soon. :)

[kblood]

Right! It's the ONLY way to go, in my opinion.

Hope you feel better soon. :)

I do now by the way :) Got some R&R these last few days. Feeling alot more clear minded, and in better balance. Will be easier to do the things I have planned to do now I think :) Always nice to know that it does not have to take months to get find happiness again :)

It does not seem I will have to use any spiritually exhausting abilities again for a while.

Nice comparison between the pope and the dark lord of the sith in Star Wars :) Makes alot of sense. Anyone read "Angels and Demons"? The book tells the story of what happened to mr tweed suit, before The DaVinci Code. Alot about the pope and the Illuminati in it, even though it might not have much to do with how it really is. I found it very entertaining anyway.

[irak]

..i'll try to explain here why is jesus, along with some other pagan gods, born on dec 25th:
..you see from the autumn equinox day becomes shorter and shorter till
dec 21st, at this point sun stops its movement south and for 3 days 22nd,23rd,24th comes out at the same point, then 25th starts it's ascension north, at this time it resides on southern cross( thus sun dies on the cross, dead for 3 days, and born again on dec 25th) ..but resurrection(easter) is celebrated on the first full moon(!) after the spring equinox, 'cos then day officially overpowers the night.. :D

[tinmenace]

I saw this bumper sticker yesterday:





http://www.globalfailure.com/images/popeshepherd.jpg

[2013]

peter who denied jesus 3 times allegedly ! was crucified upside down as he said ! he was unworthy to die the same as his lord so the roamns being the jolly fellows they where decided to turn him upside down .Now peter meaning rock was the 1st pope ? anyway peter meaning rock upon wich i found my church is founded on the reverse principles of a man who publicly denied jesus ? very symbolic if u ask me :D

[tinmenace]

very symbolic if u ask me :D

Indeed.

[octopusrex]

...by their fruits...

[urza]

Your attacking the a church that prays for Gods mercy are you all insane, when its is gone his wrath will come..... Dont be fool be mindfull of the people who attack the true church of Jesus

[octopusrex]

Attacking no..

But giving unconditional faith to any one group of people is not my idea of spiritual awareness.

[tinmenace]

Your attacking the a church that prays for Gods mercy are you all insane, when its is gone his wrath will come..... Dont be fool be mindfull of the people who attack the true church of Jesus

You mean the church that has allowed the sexual abuse of thousands of children across the world? God's church, eh?

Dunno which god you're worshiping, but I will never bow to a god that works his "miracles" through a church covers up this kind of evil. A church with wealth beyond your imagination. Wealth that would serve mankind a whole lot better if they used it to provide for those that have nothing, without those people having to decide if the the meal they are about to partake of is worth being sodomized for.

That's not love. That's imprisoning a person's soul.

[urza]

wow i did not see that coming from you tinmenace after seeing your knowledge of the freemasons I now know how it was uptained , Any ways yes there were many OTO and freemasons that infulltraded the church that performed the dark acts and were dealt with.

I pray for you .... God Bless

[tinmenace]

wow i did not see that coming from you tinmenace after seeing your knowledge of the freemasons I now know how it was uptained , Any ways yes there were many OTO and freemasons that infulltraded the church that performed the dark acts and were dealt with.

I pray for you .... God Bless

I "pray" for you too ;)

[octopusrex]

Witch-hunts all over.

[tinmenace]

Witch-hunts all over.

Yep, especially the nasty one at the Vatican ;)

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/popebenedict.jpg

[otto vollov]

Yep, especially the nasty one at the Vatican ;)

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/popebenedict.jpg

Does he ever take a good photo? Every time I see him it really creeps me out, and I'm not sure why. Has anyone got a picture witch a catholic can hang on the wall at home and not frighten their children? :eek:

[tinmenace]

Does he ever take a good photo? Every time I see him it really creeps me out, and I'm not sure why. Has anyone got a picture witch a catholic can hang on the wall at home and not frighten their children? :eek:

Hehe! really! The cruciFICTION is all torture and blood. Nasty! :mad:

[octopusrex]

Meaningless dualities. Yer still thinking of you and them.

[tinmenace]

Meaningless dualities. Yer still thinking of you and them.

Oh, thank you for clearing my own thoughts up for me.



:rolleyes:

[octopusrex]

Having "thoughts" is the problem in the first place, my dear.

[pri01]

Does he ever take a good photo? Every time I see him it really creeps me out, and I'm not sure why. Has anyone got a picture witch a catholic can hang on the wall at home and not frighten
their children? :eek:


Here is the one he uses to tempt little children to sit on his knee

1592

Absolutely adorable:rolleyes:

[tinmenace]

Having "thoughts" is the problem in the first place, my dear.

Again, thank you for your thoughts about my thoughts :rolleyes:

[octopusrex]

You are most welcome.

[tinmenace]

:D

[cew91]

You know the whole sun-worship thing maybe it has something to do with how reptiles need sun every day to get their energy being cold blooded. Also how royals are considered to have blue blood doesn't blue mean cool or cold

[mystiq_99]

Your attacking the a church that prays for Gods mercy are you all insane, when its is gone his wrath will come..... Dont be fool be mindfull of the people who attack the true church of Jesus


My background is catholic and yet I do separate the governing forces of the Church from its people. I am however so very glad to have internalized my faith along time ago, and to believe in a loving intelligent compassionate God, perhaps in a more universal way. Because if I had seen pictures of the pope sitting in an ugly tombstone throne like out of a B grade horror film with an inverted cross years ago it might have shattered me.:eek::mad:


"The sun is the brightest source of light we have, and if you can manipulate light to change reality, then that's quite a neat trick indeed. People worship things far less powerful than the sun, so sun worship is not a very big surprise. It's the source of THEIR power because they don't have inner light to draw from" -tinmenace


Thank you. For a long time I was wondering that and you explained succinctly .

[mystiq_99]

..i'll try to explain here why is jesus, along with some other pagan gods, born on dec 25th:
..you see from the autumn equinox day becomes shorter and shorter till
dec 21st, at this point sun stops its movement south and for 3 days 22nd,23rd,24th comes out at the same point, then 25th starts it's ascension north, at this time it resides on southern cross( thus sun dies on the cross, dead for 3 days, and born again on dec 25th) ..but resurrection(easter) is celebrated on the first full moon(!) after the spring equinox, 'cos then day officially overpowers the night.. :D



Thank you so much for this information. All I've ever read was allegations to this, without having it put so well. This cleared everything up for me.

[seven_star_hand]

Pay close attention, profundity knocks at the door, listen for the key. Be Aware! Scoffing causes blindness...

The definition of magic as the ability to change events through one's will is way too broad too be meaningful. Wisdom likewise gives one that ability (as do hammers and nails, etc.), but without the muddle-headed mumbo-jumbo (hocus-pocus-dominocus...) of religion and mysticism. You've hit the nail on the head by pointing to Rome as the prime source of these vain imaginings.

Magic also flowed both from greed and the failure of ancient cultures to understand the wisdom of the "ancients." (http://grasping-the-microcosmic-quintessence.blogspot.com/)

[octopusrex]

by their fruits...

[tinmenace]

I found an interesting article today:


Magicians Know More Than Scientists
By Jeanna Bryner, Senior Writer

Magicians are way ahead of psychologists when it comes to understanding and exploiting the human mind and our perceptual quirks.

A new study, detailed in the current online issue of the journal Trends in Cognitive Sciences, reveals how elements of human cognition, such as awareness and perception, could be explained by the success of some techniques commonly used by magicians.

Magicians have used so-called misdirection tricks for centuries to make scarves or animals appear out of thin air or cause other objects to vanish. But it's only been in the last two decades that vision scientists have found that only a small part of the information that enters your eyes, essentially the part that has grabbed your attention, enters your conscious awareness.

Optical illusions rely on the fact that we can "see into the future." When we see a magic trick, for instance, the light from the objects hits our retinas about one-tenth of a second before the brain translates the signal into a visual perception. To compensate for the neural lag, we have evolved to predict the outcome of events.

These predictions leave us vulnerable to deception, the researchers say.

More (http://vb.spiritual-nature.com/showthread.php?t=2683)

[lessgov2007]

I hear Christians and Catholics talk of the Anti-Christ but rarely do they look at the obvious. Let me first state that I'm not a Christian. However, I'll clue something in for everyone who's interested. The Bible tells us there have been many Anti-Christs. In the Book of Daniel we are told the Anti-Christ will speak "Boastfully". Who speaks boastfully?

"We hold upon this Earth the place of Almighty God." -Pope Leo XIII in an Encyclical letter, dated June 20, 1894

That's a pretty boastful statement for anyone to make, is it not?

The Popes official name is VICARIUS FILII DEI, which translates numerically into "666". That's an interesting number for a Pope to have. I also remember the Bible telling us the Anti-Christ would receive a fatal wound. Didn't the Pope get imprisoned at one time in the not so distant history? Has he not made a return gaining a city state and all of the Church's power? Doesn't the Pope wear a miters head? Me thinks so...
What is Cleopatra's Needle doing in the Vatican court yard? I'll tell you it has something to do with the Ptolemy bloodline, the Pharaoh of England, and Jesus himself. Don't confuse the Anti-Christ with the Prince of Darkness.

Who's the Prince of Darkness? Do you know how important the number 33 is? Prince William will be turning 33 on June 21, 2015... Do you know how many bloodlines of some of histories most well know men the Prince has flowing through is veins?

I wonder if some pagans & Christians had been reading that pesky Bible and figured out who the Anti-Christ was... Seems to me the Mother Church would not want people figuring that out, now would they? Inquisitions anyone? Why does she call herself the Mother Church? Is she telling on herself?

Just somethings to think about that I have pondered.

[octopusrex]

There are only 20,000 Huicholes left on planet earth.

Now, the enemy is advancing on their Sacred Land.

Fuck that.

[tinmenace]

Pope begins Bible-reading marathon

ROME, Italy (AP) -- Pope Benedict XVI's "In the beginning" started off a weeklong Bible-reading marathon on Italian television Sunday.

RAI state TV began its program called "The Bible Day and Night," with Benedict reciting the first chapter of the book of Genesis -- the holy text's opening verses about the creation of the world.

The marathon will feature more than 1,200 people reading the Old and New Testament in over seven days and six nights.

While the pope recited his segment from the Vatican, most of the reading will be done live in Rome's Santa Croce in Gerusalemme, a basilica built in the fourth century.

Besides Roman Catholics, members of other religions, including Jews, Protestants and Orthodox Christians will participate.

Benedict, who appeared on a giant screen mounted in the church to start the marathon, was followed by Bishop Ilarion, a representative of the Russian Orthodox Church. Oscar-winning director Roberto Benigni was also among those reading from the Bible on Sunday.

Outside the packed basilica a crowd gathered in front of the torch-lit facade.

Every few chapters the reading was being interrupted for Christian or Jewish religious music, and opera star Andrea Bocelli led the first interlude Sunday by singing Bach's "Praise the Lord."

"The word of God will enter the homes and accompany the lives of families and individual people," Benedict said of the program following his traditional noontime blessing on Sunday. "If welcomed, this seed will not fail to bring abundant fruits." http://vb.spiritual-nature.com/images/smilies/icon_blink.gif

Addressing faithful gathered in St. Peter's Square, Benedict noted the televised marathon would run parallel to a worldwide meeting of bishops on the relevance of the Bible for contemporary Catholics. The meeting of 253 bishops, known as a synod of bishops, will run from Monday through October 26.

The Bible marathon is scheduled to end with Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican's No. 2 official, reading the last chapter of the Apocalypse.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/10/06/bible.marathon.ap/index.html)



Santa Croce in Gerusalemme...At that time, the basilica floor was covered with soil from Jerusalem, thus acquiring the title in Hierusalem.

WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Croce_in_Gerusalemme)

Relics enshrined at Santa Croce in Gerusalemme in the Chapel of the Holy Relics include:

A large fragment of the Good Thief's cross;

The bone of an index finger, said to be the finger of St. Thomas that he placed in the wounds of the Risen Christ

A single reliquary containing small pieces of: the Scourging Pillar (to which Christ was tied as he was beaten); the Holy Sepulchre (Christ's tomb); and the crib of Jesus

Two thorns from the Crown of Thorns. It is said that the plant from which these came is a species of thornbush that only grows in present day Israel.

Three fragments from the True Cross

One nail used in the Crucifixion.

One third of the Title of the Cross, discovered in the church in 1492. The fragment shows the word "Nazarene" written in Hebrew, Latin and Greek.





Very ritualistic! :eek:

Why Is the Vatican Obsessed With Bones And Relics? What Is The Essence Of Their Satanic Rituals Surrounding Human Remains?

READ MORE (http://www.illuminati-news.com/2007/0318a.htm)

[stfd]

Very ritualistic! :eek:





I personally dont find anything wrong with the act per-se.
And to add , mirracles do happen every day.

[markas32]

Interesting thread, especially about the communion.

Saturn is depicted as the murderer, and the cannabalistic killer of young children, so are the rituals in homage to SATURN?SATAN and why there is sitting or sat in your lap, eg santa claus.

I could never bow to a god that requires me to eat my young, sexually abuse "oh suffer little children" or be the cat that got the cream swallow the seed/ sperm.

There is a semblance of truth in christianity somewhere but has been hijacked by the saturnic religion, is this the RA one god deity they are celebrating.

Again a wrath full god that gives with one hand free will and the power of thought and takes away with the other is a teasing or bullying god.

The red slippers will soon be gone!!!!

[markas32]

http://armandscatacombs.com/Gallery/albums/The-Hills-Have-Eyes/franciscogoya_Saturn_Eating_Cronus.jpg

[markas32]

Wow just put the above picture on and when i clicked over it it reveals this is a test, how prophetic.

[hadeka]

According to Eliphas Levi, there are three fundamental pricipals of magick (magick being the ability to change the outcome of something by using one's will). They are:



I want to concentrate primarily on the first principal, which concerns light and the manipulation thereof.

I believe truly that dogma is the most powerful spell cast upon the people by the highest ranking sorcerer - the pope.

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/popesorcerer.jpg



I was looking at various definitions of dogma. Merriam Webster Online (http://m-w.com/dictionary/dogma) says this:





Yep, sounds right, but how does it grip people's minds and souls so tightly?



Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma) has a similar definition:




This still doesn't help me to understand how this is a spell. So, I went looking for answers at the Vatican's website (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a2.htm#88), and this is where I found the "LIGHT" references I was looking for:




The darkest form of magick is forcing YOUR will upon another.

The more I read the Vatican's BS, the more references I noticed about light and the worship of it. They tell you it's the worship of the SON, but in the meantime, they're worshiping the SUN. So, while they chant their little spells over their congregations, they're talking about the SUN, and the 'faithful' think it's about the SON.

This is blatant manipulation of LIGHT (sun/son), and it's right in our faces. Go back and read principal # 1 of magick.


Imagine, if you can free your mind from any Dogma, from any thought, and from any belief, you will be a real magician .. You will see the world as it is .. And you will be free, and you will be a real God!

[phildee3]

http://www.cephasministry.com/popecbs.jpg http://www.cephasministry.com/popesata.jpg
Is that cross upside down ???
http://www.cephasministry.com/inverted_cross_pope.gif http://www.cephasministry.com/popeisra.jpg

Well, well, well, what does this tell us then ???



It tells us that this is the throne of the successor of St. Peter (who was said to have been crucified upside down).

Nothing to do with dogmatism.

[phildee3]

Imagine, if you can free your mind from any Dogma, from any thought, and from any belief, you will be a real magician .. You will see the world as it is .. And you will be free, and you will be a real God!



Absolutely.

Libertarian, independent Catholics have no dogma.

[hadeka]

Absolutely.

Libertarian, independent Catholics have no dogma.


How come?

As i know, that all religions, are based on dogmatic beliefs!

Please elaborate.


Many thanks.

[phildee3]

How come?



Because they have a libertarian ideology
which holds that all interpretation of scripture should be (and ultimately is) personal.



As i know, that all religions, are based on dogmatic beliefs!



You obviously have not investigated them all.
I doubt if anyone has.
There are as many religions as their are ideologies!



Please elaborate.



The best example that I know of is the Liberal Catholic Church, but there are others.

[stfd]

Because they have a libertarian ideology
which holds that all interpretation of scripture should be (and ultimately is) personal.



You obviously have not investigated them all.
I doubt if anyone has.
There are as many religions as their are ideologies!



The best example that I know of is the Liberal Catholic Church, but there are others.

Hi phildee3 !
You forgot Orthodoxy ;)

[phildee3]

You forgot Orthodoxy ;)



I never forget Orthodoxy.

What are you saying -
that Orthodoxy is non-dogmatic?

[rozzy]

Well, there is a lot being said about it. I mention it in this thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3234&page=2). It's called St Peter's Cross because apparently the dude was crucified upside down. Then he was buried where the St Peter's Cathedral now stands. So, yeah full of symbolism....on and on and on...that's all it's about.



Actually there is no real record of Peter the Apostle ever having been in Rome, think about it for a moment, Peter was illiterate in both Greek or Aramaic and new nothing of Latin, what would he be doing in Rome. Further more Peter is entombed on the mount of Olives not in Rome.
They should have chosen Paul for their succession theory because he was highly educated and was actually in Rome. Instead of the Petrene theory they would have the Pauline theory which would have been far more credible.

rozzy

[phildee3]

Actually there is no real record of Peter the Apostle ever having been in Rome, think about it for a moment, Peter was illiterate in both Greek or Aramaic and new nothing of Latin, what would he be doing in Rome. Further more Peter is entombed on the mount of Olives not in Rome.
They should have chosen Paul for their succession theory because he was highly educated and was actually in Rome. Instead of the Petrene theory they would have the Pauline theory which would have been far more credible.



The reason why the Roman church basis it's succession on Peter is because Jesus said "Upon this rock [Peter] I will build my church."

Peter was an apostle, Paul was not.
There are lines of succession going back to Paul, if you would like to be initiated into one of them, but it is arguable if they are "apostolic" or not.

The fact that Paul went to Rome and Peter did not is irrelevent.

[danceswithbunnies]

I think this idea of a dark spell is very damn close to the truth...but i think it is ALMOST ALL RELIGIONS involved..and the way it is imposed is belief structure.

I have put together some stuff that ties in with this thread, but could be considered adjunct to it.

Unfortunately i cannot change the title of my thread...currently it is called
"The christians DO get some things right"
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66482

(just putting it here in case you are interested)

In it i am putting the ideas together from several different religions in support of the gnostic conception that the archons are indeeed harvesting souls, not just through the catholic church...but all churches, and most religions.

There is DEFINITELY something going on...i usually don't give advice to people, but in this case i am. I would highly advise that people not worship anything, or evoke anything, or pray to any religious "God"...although "creator of all spirits" is probably a safe bet.

[solarwindspirit]

The pope is a dope
and the catholic church practices witchcraft
it's the craft
gawd are all men just into witchcraft or what?

you really don't need a go between you and the crystal clear light of reason

[fidelcastro]

Christianity has been infiltrated. They changed a lot of texts and brought symbolism.

Islam rejects the SON/SUN idea you give to it. It states Jesus is a messenger but he is human and not the son of god.

In Islam you will never find any form of sun worshipping. It clearly states god created the sun and moon.

Islam strongly rejects any idol worshipping or magic. It states judaism christianity and islam worship 1 god.

[time for change]

yes very well said..

there are many links with the "SUN of god" paradox. jesus' birthday (25th dec) is actually the date the sun begins to return for the summer months giving longer light, warmth and protection. easter is the opposite of this process. its a rather obvious link of these two catholic celebrations that itself is truely worshiping the sun and the celestial beings of mans universe.

the "crown of thorns" simply resembles the SUN RAYS. as jesus was the SUN OF GOD. the worship of jesus is ironically on SUNday. also, most of the"gods" that have a supposed birthdate were born on the 25th of december. it all comes back to cosmos. bethlehem= house of bread= a place in the stars. the three kings are also stars who "travelled" to see the SUN of god at "bethlehem". so if jesus was the sun, then his "desciples" were really the other planets in our solar system who "followed" him, as do the planets that orbit the sun..

you see, they know the truth and surpress it. they know that we are GOD. man is GOD. they know the real powers we have of travelling different planes of existence.

there was once a true, real and pure belief system on this planet of our celestial awareness. the sun was our saviour. we new that without it we could not survive, in this realm of existence anyway. this was thousands of years ago, and afterwards, by the time of the ancient egyptians (whos god was RA, the SUN) they simply hid the true beliefs and substituted them for fake, divided "religions". funilly enough, the ancient egyptian BOOK OF THE DEAD (-rules) is actually what came to be the 10 commandments. this gained maximum control, via the strict rules and conditions. this is why "religion" is the most necessary tool for the sick minded and secretive network of the elitists.

its great that people have started to wake up. the question is, can we change things in time before they have ultimate control and its to late. when you dont even socialise anymore, you just stay at home and go to work like a robot in hypnosis. we are already unconceous enough as it is.

if they global elite were to get this control, i believe, that it will take WWIII, or as some have come to call it, the final war.

they use false flag terrorism to take away your rights, they will use WWIII to completely imprison us all and put the last nail in the coffin.

[jesusistruth]

Well alright you Wise men, if anyone of you have reached your proclaimed level of enlightenment you may PM me on how you did that, otherwise you appear like nothing but being decieved to believe in your own sovereignity.

And please let it be without child sacrifices and demon possesion.

I also would like to know what spells you are going to cast and where you are going to take refuge from the demons you will be sharing the same space with after you "die".

(And we all know that Jesus was not born on 25 of dec but on passover and thus he died at exactly 33 years of age. Neither is Sunday the actual sabbath. The whole Sun=Son argument is based on lies from the Church of satan itself.)

[octopusrex]

The catholics started the bible you hold in your hand!

Do the math!

[phildee3]

The catholics started the bible you hold in your hand!

Do the math!



Math done!

Moses started it.
The Vatican finished it.

[octopusrex]

Soooooo?
How do you break it?:confused:

Might this help?Lisa Thiel - Sacred Ancestors&#39; Chant - YouTube

[rebel_recon]

Cool thread sunshine !!! http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8071/coolsmileygp1.gif



http://www.cephasministry.com/popecbs.jpg http://www.cephasministry.com/popesata.jpg
Is that cross upside down ???
http://www.cephasministry.com/inverted_cross_pope.gif http://www.cephasministry.com/popeisra.jpg

Well, well, well, what does this tell us then ???





With LOVE. http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

Yet again you have been deceived by Satan Father of lies, if you taken the time to study the Bible you would have learned that the Catholic Church is the referred to as the Beast in which the Whore Babylon rides, your so called "enlightment" new age religion ideas source from Babylon. But Satan mixes lies with truth, you are the One World Religion paving the way for Anti Christ and his New World Order. Jesus will cast out Chatholic Church and your "we are all Gods" religion of Satan, on his arrival in the second coming.

AntiChrist=against=Christ the Saviour
Upside down cross=against=cross of Christ the Saviour

You believe the (Satans) New World Order will come to pass true, but because this is true you believe the lies your new age religion has told you that God does'nt excist. Satan mixes lies with truth.

When the disciples asked Jesus what would characterize the last days just prior to His return, He explained that it would be a time of the greatest religious deception the world had ever seen. He said sound doctrine would be despised and wondered if there would be any faith left whatsoever when He returned. He gave His disciples a solemn warning: "Take heed that no man deceive you" (Matt. 24:4,5,11,24).

[whysosirius84]

Dogma in itself can in no logical way that I know be considered a magic spell. Also, I find it particularly ridiculous how DOGMATIC many of the posts on this thread are considering that they are in opposition to dogma in the first place. I can only laugh at your blindness to your own fundermental contradiction in this regard.

[tinmenace]

Dogma in itself can in no logical way that I know be considered a magic spell.

Can you logically explain what a spell is then?

[whysosirius84]

Can you logically explain what a spell is then?

As far as I know magic spells always involve the practitioner seeking out a spirit or force in order to use it for a task. Dogma is completely different. Dogma is a belief or an assertion of belief in objective truth. That's all, This thread is so ridiculous it isn't even funny.

[tinmenace]

Dogma in itself can in no logical way that I know be considered a magic spell. Also, I find it particularly ridiculous how DOGMATIC many of the posts on this thread are considering that they are in opposition to dogma in the first place. I can only laugh at your blindness to your own fundermental contradiction in this regard.



As far as I know magic spells always involve the practitioner seeking out a spirit or force in order to use it for a task. Dogma is completely different. Dogma is a belief or an assertion of belief in objective truth. That's all, This thread is so ridiculous it isn't even funny.

Speaking with such authority about magic spells, yet you admittedly know nothing about them. You have some very strong opinions based on....well nothing.

Well done indeed.


:cool:

[whysosirius84]

Speaking with such authority about magic spells, yet you admittedly know nothing about them. You have some very strong opinions based on....well nothing.

Well done indeed.


:cool:

Well if thats how your going to be about it.

I never claimed to be an authority. However I do have my opinions based on what little I do know. If you can prove me wrong I welcome it and will gain deeper understanding but simply dismissing what I say without giving an alternative viewpoint or additional information doesnt either prove me wrong or prove you right. Just something for you to think about. :rolleyes:

[himitsunomiko]

Hi everyone, just wanted to say that I am new here, this is my first post. My opinion on this particular subject is very strong, as I have researched much about religion, mythology, spirituality, and all kinds of -alities LOL

Anywhoo, the biggest spell put on the earth happened when the word YAHWEH was created from the OM symbol.
http://www.donmeh-west.com/om.shtml

Then, the symbol theft out of India went from there. You have the svastika which is now the swastika, the hexagram, which originally meant the balance of male and female energy in Eastern Thought. is now the sign of the alleged star of David.

So from the symbology it is blatant that symbols which had no negative connotation are being used for another fashion.

Some will argue that the eastern thought is evil, run by aryan beleifs. But I would like to beg differ, because Hitler preached Aryan philosophy and would have anyone not going that route murdered. And, the people of eastern thought are a peaceful people, so how can they be associated with the evil man's agenda?

I have been on another message board arguing with Christians for nearly 2 months now that just because you are not Christian does not mean you worship Satan. Here is what they have to say about that,

Enlightenment is evil. The earth is evil. All forms of magic are bad.

Clearly this is the highest form of brainwashing being administered to the so-called followers of Jesus.

If he did really die on the cross for our sins, then that means he is alleging that he can rid us of our karma, and according to Eastern Thought, that is done by either becoming enlightened, Moksha, and either of which allegedly can be achieved by Bhakti Yoga.

This large spell the world is under is caused by the lack of enlightenment in people today. Without spiritual knowledge, the soul cannot shine through the body, thus creating it to be a life less drone - - Exactly what the powers that be want to usher in what is on the agenda.

Please let me know what you think and sorry if some of this has already been said.

[ben87]

"If he did really die on the cross for our sins, then that means he is alleging that he can rid us of our karma, and according to Eastern Thought, that is done by either becoming enlightened, Moksha, and either of which allegedly can be achieved by Bhakti Yoga."


Why should a criminal not be held responsible for his own actions? That is ridding yourself of karma isnt it?

I bet hitler was also "enlightened".

the false light, the outer material world. that is why baphomet carries a torch, to represent the "enlightenment" of the soul, man thinks he came become god. the light of the masonic lodge is the same light, known as venus or lucifer.

Man is part of god, but he is not god.

[phildee3]

Why should a criminal not be held responsible for his own actions?



Good question, but it's irrelevent -
unless you can time-travel back 2000 years and talk Jesus out of willingly going to his death.

[nectars]

Same old taking things literally. Never seems to get boring for some folks even when it makes no sense to take it as such :rolleyes:

[tinmenace]

Good question, but it's irrelevent -
unless you can time-travel back 2000 years and talk Jesus out of willingly going to his death.

I think we'll have a hard time finding him. No evidence, outside the bible, that he ever existed.

I have no reason to believe he did, and I won't do it just based on faith. No reason for any of that really....

[ben87]

Good question, but it's irrelevent -
unless you can time-travel back 2000 years and talk Jesus out of willingly going to his death.

How is it irrevelant, the statement was about ridding yourself of karma, and the idea is that you can do whatever you want as long as it feels good.

These are the thoughts of people like Hitler and facists.

[phildee3]

...the idea is that you can do whatever you want as long as it feels good.



No it's not.
Atonement is only for the sincere penitant.
(translation: you are only forgiven/cleared of karma if you are truly sorry for what you did).
Now if you are truly sorry for what you did, you will make every effort not to do it again - won't you?

Every time you use the get-out-of-jail-free card, it goes back in the deck. :)

The redeeming blood of Christ is not a carte blanche permit to sin!

[ellis_deatrip]

http://mysticpolitics.com/images/stories/automatic/0/27829_10150187933325543_772000542_12461656_1489159 _s.jpg
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[tinmenace]

No it's not.
Atonement is only for the sincere penitant.
(translation: you are only forgiven/cleared of karma if you are truly sorry for what you did).
Now if you are truly sorry for what you did, you will make every effort not to do it again - won't you?

Every time you use the get-out-of-jail-free card, it goes back in the deck. :)

The redeeming blood of Christ is not a carte blanche permit to sin!

One can atone without the so-called "redeeming blood of christ." You can be truly sorry for wrong doings - you can learn your lesson, become a better person and live a more fruitful and loving life .... all this can be done without beckoning the energies that many call "Christ."

In fact, it's better if you lose the christ crutch and do it on your own without outside influence.

[phildee3]

One can atone without the so-called "redeeming blood of christ." You can be truly sorry for wrong doings - you can learn your lesson, become a better person and live a more fruitful and loving life .... all this can be done without beckoning the energies that many call "Christ."



I totally agree with you.
I've never heard of anyone "beckoning the energies."
One need not have even heard the good news of the Gospel.
Jesus has paid the karmic debt off, for all who are truly penitent, anyway.

[ben87]

What a joke.

So i can say today i am going to off myself, and all the rapists and murderers should be forgiven just because i said so.

That is crazy.

[phildee3]

What a joke.

So i can say today i am going to off myself, and all the rapists and murderers should be forgiven just because i said so.



Nope.
You have nothing to say about the matter. That would be crazy.
All sins are forgiven anyway - as long as they are confessed in sincere penetance.

(btw, under secular law suicide is legal in some places).

[tinmenace]

I've never heard of anyone "beckoning the energies."


By that I mean "invite jesus into your heart" and "through jesus..amen..."

This is DIRECT beckoning of energy OUTSIDE of oneself. Very very dangerous.

[phildee3]

By that I mean "invite jesus into your heart" and "through jesus..amen..."

This is DIRECT beckoning of energy OUTSIDE of oneself. Very very dangerous.



Okay.
I would agree with you when another person is an intermediary, especially an evangelical pastor. Satan often poses as Jesus in these fake "churches."

But a DIRECT, personal and private invitation to the true Jesus Christ is not from OUTSIDE - it is an awakening of the godhead within. We are all drops from the infinite ocean, made of the same stuff - pure, unconditional, unlimited love.

[ben87]

I totally agree with you.
I've never heard of anyone "beckoning the energies."
One need not have even heard the good news of the Gospel.
Jesus has paid the karmic debt off, for all who are truly penitent, anyway.

Ben87
"What a joke.

So i can say today i am going to off myself, and all the rapists and murderers should be forgiven just because i said so.

That is crazy."

This is what jesus did though. He committed suicide, and told everyone their sins would be forgiven, just because he said so!

That is what the bibel says.

That is a fallacy.

[phildee3]

This is what jesus did though. He committed suicide,

That is what the bibel says.



Wrong on both counts - he was executed.

[ben87]

He knew he was going do die.

Did he make a decision to save his own life? NO, that is suicide.

[ben87]

They call it death by cop.