Theory on Illuminati morality... [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

mcthompson2x

01-09-2008, 05:51 PM

oiram

01-09-2008, 06:41 PM

mcthompson2x

01-09-2008, 06:45 PM

I got to put my foot in here for a second!
My brain is driven 95% by logic and I believe I know what the real problem is in our so called system and what keeps these sick leaders in there positions! I also have a very good fantasy if I choose to do so!
But looking at your theory and two time lines different reality's individuality and separating your self from the outside world is not really Human in my eyes!
How would as example Truth and Love fit into this world you try to discover! Or would your world only have self love in the program!

To me this fits absolutely into the agenda of the Elite to separate all and every one from each other to live in there own dream world!

So nothing would change really and people would never unite to find the love which there are really looking for! And what's about creating offspring's ore do you just create them in your hologram program!!

Then again the people now are floating already around all over the place and trying to get land under there feet! To find a friend they can talk with to share ideas a create something...etc!

I don't know does not fit into my logic and looks to me your world will be a very lonely place running away from reality!

I am not saying to stop loving or anything like that at all. Love is magic. I am saying what you believe reality is, is what reality is to you. Some of us live in realities that reinforce paranoid delusions, some of us live in realities where nothing ever goes wrong. Our souls put us in certain planes for certain reasons - perhaps two people on the same plane can coexist because they can experience two exceptional, functional, and independently different realities nearly in the same space - but I am not saying that is the only way that reality can be perceived. I believe it can be perceived differently, and lack of awareness perception is what makes us believe there is only one reality and that it is linear. I am not saying to withdraw from people at all - spreading love is what reinforces our "magic" abilities. We should spread truth and knowledge and love, I feel like you put words into my mouth. My world isn't lonely at all, it's more full of life and people than it has been in a very long time. You misunderstand what I meant by my post... you seem to be assuming that there is only one reality, this one, and that even though we can think whatever we want, we can't shift realities. That's fine, and I respect your right to believe that. I understand where you are coming from, you are merely challenging my hypothesis. But I think your challenge is based on a false assumption about my intent...

oiram

01-09-2008, 07:09 PM

No I don't mean to upset you!
I think the different realitys we are experiencing is exactly what creates this holographic reality we live in!
I'm more on the track that frequency's connects as all and ones we swing in the same tone all comes together!

When I use the word reality I do relate it and put it into the category of Truth!
Reality is static for me the same like I interpret Truth it is static! There is only one Truth!
That's the problem with finding the right wording!
When you say there is a second reality is it not in a way his own individual reality!

mcthompson2x

01-09-2008, 07:13 PM

No I don't mean to upset you!
I think the different realitys we are experiencing is exactly what creates this holographic reality we live in!
I'm more on the track that frequency's connects as all and ones we swing in the same tone all comes together!

Oh, I wasn't upset.

I think that the more we put ourselves together psychically, the more reality appears to come together as one. For those who choose not to participate in coming together and becoming "one" as a people - and I don't mean forced integration or anything, I mean harmonious coexistence and mutual authentic respect and wonder for each other - a reality will exist to compensate them. But people who begin to understand what is true and know what they want, begin to manifest realities where people do coexist. These realities already existed, just people begin to tune into them and tune out of the more negative planes of reality.

tusme

01-09-2008, 07:40 PM

mcthompson2x

01-09-2008, 07:48 PM

Hi Mcthompson2x,

If ever the illuminati knew "morality", they certainly wouldn't be sharing it with you or me...there ain't no honour among thieves, as they say... ;)

I don't wish to be disrespectful, but, unless it's your intention...such a theory would make you a perfect (illuminati) tool... ;)

Cheers!

I'm not saying they're telling us anything, they're going out of the way to hide the truth. Still, the truth is available to those who truly want it enough to pursue it at all costs, because you don't discover what the truth is by finding "evidence" of it, you merely wake up and realize what control of your own reality you have. It only needs to be explored in innerspace - reflection and comprehension of the individual mental state. They know this, and so they feel morally justified in their actions. That doesn't mean they are, but they have other versions of themselves existing on different planes of reality that are probably much better. The same for the rest of us. As for saying that I would be "the perfect Illuminati tool" for merely drawing a conclusion, I don't really care about that. I'm not scared of what people think about me, I'm only interested in what I discover to be my own personal truth. That being said, I think that the Illuminati know what the truth is and they've been using it against us for a very long time. Discovering that truth does not make one an agent of the Illuminati, intentionally or unintentionally.

tusme

01-09-2008, 08:43 PM

I'm not saying they're telling us anything, they're going out of the way to hide the truth. Still, the truth is available to those who truly want it enough to pursue it at all costs, because you don't discover what the truth is by finding "evidence" of it, you merely wake up and realize what control of your own reality you have. It only needs to be explored in innerspace - reflection and comprehension of the individual mental state. They know this, and so they feel morally justified in their actions. That doesn't mean they are, but they have other versions of themselves existing on different planes of reality that are probably much better. The same for the rest of us. As for saying that I would be "the perfect Illuminati tool" for merely drawing a conclusion, I don't really care about that. I'm not scared of what people think about me, I'm only interested in what I discover to be my own personal truth. That being said, I think that the Illuminati know what the truth is and they've been using it against us for a very long time. Discovering that truth does not make one an agent of the Illuminati, intentionally or unintentionally.
Hi Mcthompson2x,

Well, your original post was not about "Truth", was it...?

As for, "darkness" being a "teacher"? What is there for anyone to learn, if I decide to go murdering millions of the World's population? ...and choose to enslave the rest?

Furthermore,...discovering that truth does not make one an agent of the Illuminati, intentionally or unintentionally ...of-course not!

However, establishing the truth about their philosophies, is one thing...but, trying to draw parallels between our existence and theirs, is quite another!

Mate, have you not had enough of them giving us their dodgy truth's? ...so why would you now, still want to consider (their) "darkness", as yet another of their truth's, hey?

I respect your thinking but sorry, I can't say the same for it's dynamics... :confused:

Cheers!

mcthompson2x

01-09-2008, 08:52 PM

Hi Mcthompson2x,

Well, your original post was not about "Truth", was it...?

As for, "darkness" being a "teacher"? What is there for anyone to learn, if I decide to go murdering millions of the World's population? ...and choose to enslave the rest?

Furthermore,... ...of-course not!

However, establishing the truth about their philosophies, is one thing...but, trying to draw parallels between our existence and theirs, is quite another!

Mate, have you not had enough of them giving us their dodgy truth's? ...so why would you now, still want to consider (their) "darkness", as yet another of their truth's, hey?

I respect your thinking but sorry, I can't say the same for it's dynamics... :confused:

Cheers!

Who is the philosophy dodgy to? Maybe to you, but certainly it doesn't seem dodgy to me. It's not like they are going out of their way to share it with us - I reached this conclusion through independent research and experience. I am not talking about following darkness or light, I am merely talking about balance and realize that there is no need to align with either, because alliances breed problems. We need to merely exist and respect each other and all of that stuff. Darkness is a teacher, unintentionally or not, I don't know how you could prove that wasn't true either way. You seem to be assuming that the established view of reality is true and that I'm placing my faith in abstract ideas that have never gotten anyone anywhere, but I'm challenging that very basis for reality.

tusme

01-09-2008, 09:40 PM

Who is the philosophy dodgy to? Maybe to you, but certainly it doesn't seem dodgy to me. It's not like they are going out of their way to share it with us - I reached this conclusion through independent research and experience. I am not talking about following darkness or light, I am merely talking about balance and realize that there is no need to align with either, because alliances breed problems. We need to merely exist and respect each other and all of that stuff. Darkness is a teacher, unintentionally or not, I don't know how you could prove that wasn't true either way. You seem to be assuming that the established view of reality is true and that I'm placing my faith in abstract ideas that have never gotten anyone anywhere, but I'm challenging that very basis for reality.
Hi Mcthompson2x,

So, you accept everything their (global) puppet governments and mainstream media feeds you, as truth? ...is that what you're saying?

I'm curious, just what is it, you're expecting the illuminati to share with you...?

You seem to make out, the illuminati are some kind of "champion beings", who's technique's need to be unravelled...and if possible, we too could become "champion beings", as they supposedly are...!? :confused:

Mate, do you realise the messed-up state the World is in at present? Is that what you want revealed/shared, so you can go along and do the same...?

As far as "darkness" goes, don't fool yourself, all it is, is a false/negative energy, there's nothing it can teach you or me...indeed, respecting it's presence is important but thats about as far as it will go...

If it's a "teacher" you're after, seek within, you'll find an energy infinitely more powerful than, what the illuminati is able to offer you...! ;)

Cheers!

mcthompson2x

01-09-2008, 10:27 PM

Look, I'm not entirely sure what your purpose is, but you are putting an awful lot of words and ideas into my mouth that did not come out of it.

Hi Mcthompson2x,

So, you accept everything their (global) puppet governments and mainstream media feeds you, as truth? ...is that what you're saying?

I'm curious, just what is it, you're expecting the illuminati to share with you...?

What are you talking about? Did I ever say that I accept anything that the government or mainstream media says? Can you point me in the direction of the mainstream media that talks about reality shifting, because I can't seem to find it anywhere except for maybe the occasional vague mention on Coast to Coast. I am not talking about siding with the Illuminati because they are evil and I don't expect to learn anything from them, I have simply learned the same things that many of them have learned, and I've put forth a hypothetical theory explaining why they're doing what they're doing. Nowhere in that theory do I justify anything that they have done or plan on doing. Why exactly are you drawing the conclusions that you are drawing based on what I am writing? Are you only seeing what you want to see? That's the conclusion I'm drawing from your responses.

You seem to make out, the illuminati are some kind of "champion beings", who's technique's need to be unravelled...and if possible, we too could become "champion beings", as they supposedly are...!?

Yes, I am suggesting that we are just as capable and as intelligent as they are, yes, I am suggesting that we have the same abilities that they have. It's just what I believe to be true, it's not an opinion that I think people need to take sides on. Who said "champion" anyway? I certainly didn't. I don't use that word very often. It implies superiority.

Mate, do you realise the messed-up state the World is in at present? Is that what you want revealed/shared, so you can go along and do the same...?

Are you kidding me? Are you even reading my posts? I don't think you are. You're skimming and finding the lines that outrage you. I never once suggested I planned on acting like or learning anything from the Illuminati, I am saying that they are teachers because their extreme darkness causes us to ask the light for help - it TEACHES us that the light is amazing. If we didn't have darkness, then we wouldn't understand why the light is so necessary and amazing. That is what I mean when I say that they are teachers - in this way, all demons are merely teachers.

As far as "darkness" goes, don't fool yourself, all it is, is a false/negative energy, there's nothing it can teach you or me...indeed, respecting it's presence is important but thats about as far as it will go...

If it's a "teacher" you're after, seek within, you'll find a energy infinitely more powerful than, what the illuminati is able to offer you...!

What makes you suspect that these answers did not come from inside me? More presumptions...

You just assume that I somehow want to be like the Illuminati and I can't grasp why for the life of me. You only put yourself in a box when you try to put me in one.

tusme

01-09-2008, 11:27 PM

Look, I'm not entirely sure what your purpose is, but you are putting an awful lot of words and ideas into my mouth that did not come out of it.

What are you talking about? Did I ever say that I accept anything that the government or mainstream media says? Can you point me in the direction of the mainstream media that talks about reality shifting, because I can't seem to find it anywhere except for maybe the occasional vague mention on Coast to Coast. I am not talking about siding with the Illuminati because they are evil and I don't expect to learn anything from them, I have simply learned the same things that many of them have learned, and I've put forth a hypothetical theory explaining why they're doing what they're doing. Nowhere in that theory do I justify anything that they have done or plan on doing. Why exactly are you drawing the conclusions that you are drawing based on what I am writing? Are you only seeing what you want to see? That's the conclusion I'm drawing from your responses.

Yes, I am suggesting that we are just as capable and as intelligent as they are, yes, I am suggesting that we have the same abilities that they have. It's just what I believe to be true, it's not an opinion that I think people need to take sides on. Who said "champion" anyway? I certainly didn't. I don't use that word very often. It implies superiority.

Are you kidding me? Are you even reading my posts? I don't think you are. You're skimming and finding the lines that outrage you. I never once suggested I planned on acting like or learning anything from the Illuminati, I am saying that they are teachers because their extreme darkness causes us to ask the light for help - it TEACHES us that the light is amazing. If we didn't have darkness, then we wouldn't understand why the light is so necessary and amazing. That is what I mean when I say that they are teachers - in this way, all demons are merely teachers.

What makes you suspect that these answers did not come from inside me? More presumptions...

You just assume that I somehow want to be like the Illuminati and I can't grasp why for the life of me. You only put yourself in a box when you try to put me in one.
Hi Mcthompson2x,

Apologies, I was merely trying to "flip the coin", as it were...give you another perspective of your "theory on illuminati morality" and "darkness"...

Ok, so you don't consider "puppet governments" and the "mainstream media" as illuminati machinations...?

Now, go on then (re, the illuminati), please tell us what "conclusions you've reached through independent research and experience"? And while you at it, please explain, "I have simply learned the same things that many of them have learned"?

As for your "hypothetical theory, explaining why they're doing what they're doing"...hmm, now you're having a laugh! What do you think their pyramid symbolises...?

Just what makes you think we're capable of taking on the illuminati at their own "game"...your whole theory is suddenly starting to look rather suspect now...don't you understand, it's their "game" and their rules...!?

A "game", which is played at every level of society throughout the entire World, regardless of nationality, religion, race or whatever...the truth is, there is no match (excuse the pun) to their "game..."!

Only Truth, because, it exists at all levels of both the Physical and Spiritual realms, can match them at their "game"...more importantly, beat them at it too!! ;)

As for "darkness" - "TEACHES us that the light is amazing"...all it is, is relativity...and so the question is, why's the illuminati's "darkness" so significant then?

What you're trying to establish here, is a typical Physical realm phenomenon, using relativity...I'll say it again, know your own Truth and you'll need no-one else's "darkness" to show how "amazing light" is...! ;)

Cheers!

mcthompson2x

02-09-2008, 12:33 AM

Ok, so you don't consider "puppet governments" and the "mainstream media" as illuminati machinations...?

When did I ever say that? They are clearly extensions of the Illuminati. I don't know where you're reading these things from.

Now, go on then (re, the illuminati), please tell us what "conclusions you've reached through independent research and experience"? And while you at it, please explain, "I have simply learned the same things that many of them have learned"?

I'm not going to re-explain what I posted in the very first post in this thread. The conclusions I've reached are the ones I've posted. I have explained why I think what I think to the full extent that I need to, if you can't understand what I'm saying that's fine but you don't need to ask me to re-explain it or to ask me to explain it like I haven't yet.

As for your "hypothetical theory, explaining why they're doing what they're doing"...hmm, now you're having a laugh! What do you think their pyramid symbolises...?

The pyramid is real, but they look at it from a far smaller scale. They think they can sit at the top of the pyramid but they really can't. The all-seeing-eye is real and it exists within every one of us - it is merely our god potential. Our higher selves. That which sees beyond limits. That's the all-seeing eye. Its' just the third eye.

Just what makes you think we're capable of taking on the illuminati at their own "game"...your whole theory is suddenly starting to look rather suspect now...don't you understand, it's their "game" and their rules...!?

What are you talking about again? Did I ever say anything about playing their game, or by their rules? I merely talked about recognizing reality. That's all. Putting words in my mouth AGAIN. I am saying that they merely recognize the nature of reality and by hiding it from us, they can use it against us. It's like a scientist who knows when a lunar eclipse is going to happen - he can walk into a jungle and tell some ignorant natives that he can command the sun, then prove it and they'll think he has the power of God. THAT IS ALL THAT I AM SAYING. They know how reality works, and they can use it against us. Denying reality is just as stupid as succumbing to their lies about it.

A "game", which is played at every level of society throughout the entire World, regardless of nationality, religion, race or whatever...the truth is, there is no match (excuse the pun) to their "game..."!

Only Truth, because, it exists at all levels of both the Physical and Spiritual realms, can match them at their "game"...more importantly, beat them at it too!!

As for "darkness" - "TEACHES us that the light is amazing"...all it is, is relativity...and so the question is, why's the illuminati's "darkness" so significant then?

What you're trying to establish here, is a typical Physical realm phenomenon, using relativity...I'll say it again, know your own Truth and you'll need no-one else's "darkness" to show how "amazing light" is...!

You try to force your opinions as truth while at the same time distorting mine and putting words into my mouth. Who is truly suspect here?

The funny thing is that you're merely seeing the same truth as I am from a different perspective, but you see fit to attack my perspective and continue to put forth the idea that I am submitting my authority to the Illuminati when in fact I am declaring absolute spiritual independence from it. I just don't get why that is. You have assumed so many completely bizarre things about what I've posted that it's hard to understand why I should bother defending myself, you clearly aren't reading what I'm writing.

oiram

02-09-2008, 03:02 AM

Hi Mcthompson2x
I don't know how to say this; you seam to be a good guy!
The way I see it you had two individual responses and both are going in the direction to warn you about this illuminate trickery!

It will always be up to you but try look for the light and truth because I also see the darkness will swallow you up one day! Like I say it's up to you!

Good people will never force you to do anything they will only give you a general direction and there opinions!

I actually think the stuff you talking about I have seen in a movie on CinMax two weeks ago! Something to do with a magician getting replaced!
I like the movie because I always liked things like the time travel idea!

What was hitting me in the end of the movie; was when they say the illuminate will save the world from evil for the next 1000 years!
Also strange they used the word Illuminate in there own media outlets; aren't they telling us its all just a conspiracy? I got my confirmation by this movie that it is real! Because the ones working for the Elite MSM surly don't have a free hand to show what they like for obvious reasons!
Now Exactly this swished on my light! You know how owns the MSM and what it is used for "right!"

I learned to read there movies they showing us in reverse! I find many answers in there movies it's like showing me a preview of the future events to come! All is preplanned; but they don't show it directly they hiding it in the movie and usually is presented in reverse logic!

This Illuminati is screwing with our minds and the weak people have to be very careful to not get sucked in!
I also got interested in the Revers Speech theory which makes it possible to read your lies which actually come out in reverse in real speech!
Very interesting theory and it does work I played with it my self; if any one is interested just google for it "Revers Speech" (http://revspeech.proboards45.com) and I think this is what they doing showing us things in revers and it gets stuck in our subconscious without realising it! I managed to find the lie of Bush from one of his speeches and also saying in "Revers Speech "My father is a mighty ass for cash they use me"

Anyhow think about it! Always it's your own decision what you like to play with!

mcthompson2x

02-09-2008, 04:07 AM

Anyhow think about it! Always it's your own decision what you like to play with!

Conversely, it's yours as well. All I'm doing is offering up hypotheses on how we can escape the intellectual/spiritual prison that they have built for us. It seems a lot of people would rather that it not be talked about except to be condemned. All I'm talking about is the power of the mind to manifest reality.

drael

02-09-2008, 05:26 AM

Thats and interesting track your going down here, and like most things, ur not alone.

For a metaphysic veiw that talks alot about the role of positive versus negative entities the ra materials aka the law of one is interesting reading on this matter. (also 9 dimensions, matrix, 2012, atlantis etc)

Mystic and magicians often talk about a trascendent morality, a wisdom that is above both "paths" of good and evil. The vast majority of early religions revered and respected their evil gods/entities not out of worship, but for recognition of their role in nature and human nature. Only really the judiac religions dont do this, which is why in western society we tend to be unhappy with the cosmos - theres a fly in our cosmis soup, and god obviously messed up!

For me, its plain stupid to not see purpose in all things in life, everything has its place. To not see the world _philosophically_ like this is to put extra pain and stress in your body and soul. That doesnt mean we like what they do, or that we will stop doing good, but only that we can see its purpose.

I like a trascendant morality though. Something like zen buddhism. If someone u love says something super dumb, slap em with a big stick and say WTF! (well thats not exactly it, but it sounds funny)

size_of_light

02-09-2008, 06:12 AM

Perhaps these tricksters are merely fulfilling the reality desire they want - they know that all darkness is agent of god or the evolved self as well. Darkness is just a teacher so that those in the light can learn how to appreciate. All of those in the dark will return to the light if they choose to, or more likely, at what point they choose to (why would anyone spend eternity in anything?). So, they feel entitled since most people who live in THIS reality choose to be so stupid/ignorant that they must be fulfilling a soul contract (actually there is no question, since everyone is always fulfilling a soul contract or we wouldn't be here). They are merely doing what they want, which is all we're put here to do, and souls who can't learn how to shift realities and empower themselves are on a subconscious level only doing what they want to do as well.

Perhaps the extreme darkness is supposed to be a teacher - and if you wish to believe in a collective reality, perhaps the more that people need to learn the greater the darkness appears. This could foreshadow great change (and probably does, since everyone reading this has decided to shift into the reality that I'm posting this in! Haha... I think.)

Icke's written on this from insights gained during his ayahuaska sessions, I think. Can't remember which book it was in...

"Conversations with God" has an in-depth discussion on the metaphysical reasons for it all, too, from memory.

It's covered in a lot of other spiritual and philosophical texts, also.

For me, when it comes to the 'why' of all this, I always think of the Buddha, and it being one of the few questions that he refused to answer, not because he didn't know the answer, but because he knew that it'd be just another 'concept' that would only add to the delusion.

If you had a profound discussion with somebody in a dark room about what the light looked like, but that person had never actually seen the light, it'd remain on a conceptual level, and you could end up having a very lucid dream where you thought you were awake, but were still asleep.

Another analogy the Buddha made was with someone who's been hit by an arrow. When you come across the wounded person, you don't first waste time analysing the type of wood the arrow's made from or the prevailing wind conditions etc. and try to determine where the arrow was fired from or by whom. By that time the patient has died. You start by just plucking it out!

This kind of speculation is interesting, to an extent, but I'm not sure I follow you, in terms of seeing it as being empowering.

It could be that one aspect of absolute consciousness is a dark agent that has dipped back into our reality to generate pain and suffering in order to evolve us, and that the Illuminati believe they are manifestations of this 'righteous' force, and so feel justified to do what they do.

If that's their thinking, I think they're perverting the truth and deceiving themselves, in order to gratify base desires, because I don't imagine an active, malevolent energy being a component of the absolute.

Again, though, that's only a speculation, albeit an intuitive one.

If this is your basic hypothesis, and I'm not misunderstanding you, I don't see where 'reality-shifting' ties in, what it is for that matter, how it would work, or why it would be useful in the context you're describing.

tusme

02-09-2008, 10:06 AM

When did I ever say that? They are clearly extensions of the Illuminati. I don't know where you're reading these things from.

I'm not going to re-explain what I posted in the very first post in this thread. The conclusions I've reached are the ones I've posted. I have explained why I think what I think to the full extent that I need to, if you can't understand what I'm saying that's fine but you don't need to ask me to re-explain it or to ask me to explain it like I haven't yet.

The pyramid is real, but they look at it from a far smaller scale. They think they can sit at the top of the pyramid but they really can't. The all-seeing-eye is real and it exists within every one of us - it is merely our god potential. Our higher selves. That which sees beyond limits. That's the all-seeing eye. Its' just the third eye.

What are you talking about again? Did I ever say anything about playing their game, or by their rules? I merely talked about recognizing reality. That's all. Putting words in my mouth AGAIN. I am saying that they merely recognize the nature of reality and by hiding it from us, they can use it against us. It's like a scientist who knows when a lunar eclipse is going to happen - he can walk into a jungle and tell some ignorant natives that he can command the sun, then prove it and they'll think he has the power of God. THAT IS ALL THAT I AM SAYING. They know how reality works, and they can use it against us. Denying reality is just as stupid as succumbing to their lies about it.

You try to force your opinions as truth while at the same time distorting mine and putting words into my mouth. Who is truly suspect here?

The funny thing is that you're merely seeing the same truth as I am from a different perspective, but you see fit to attack my perspective and continue to put forth the idea that I am submitting my authority to the Illuminati when in fact I am declaring absolute spiritual independence from it. I just don't get why that is. You have assumed so many completely bizarre things about what I've posted that it's hard to understand why I should bother defending myself, you clearly aren't reading what I'm writing.
Hi Mcthompson2x,

It seems you and I are on different "frequencies", re, your "theory on illuminati morality"...!?

So if you agree, those government's and MSM media are merely "extensions of the Illuminati", then, what more do you want for them to "teach" us? :confused:

Actually, it's not your "conclusions" I was after, but, your "independent research"...mind sharing abit of detail here?

As for the, "pyramid & the all-seeing eye"...the issue is not whether it's "real" or not...what is, is the fact you said, "we're are as smart as they are"...and if that is the case, I assumed you meant, by learning from their "darkness", we too can become the "illuminated one's"... Does that make sense?

The illuminati and it's pyramid (scheme) is 1000's of years old...it has processed, generated & projected unimaginable amounts of (negative) energy throughout the World and beyond...and you want "them" teaching us morality? All you'll get, is more misery for the masses...is that what you want? Neither do I...hence, I don't think your "theory" is a good idea!

As for, your "scientist and his lunar eclipse" shenanigans...hmm, he better hope there's another lunar eclipse very soon, otherwise, those natives would no sooner "rise up" and realise what a fraud he is... ;)

My friend, every human being understands their own reality...well, they should be, anyway....even a new born baby does.

The illuminati believe it's their duty/right to take control of that/our reality...that is their illuminati reality!! Is that really what you want them to teach us? :confused:

I'm sorry, if you see my attempts to point out a different perspective, as an attack on you...as other commentators have acknowledged, I too, think you're a good guy...!!

Please understand, there are very big differences between my perspective and your theory...and, as an online friend, I'm just trying to show you, that, your "theory on illuminati moraility" may require a re-think...thats all.

Take it easy!!

mcthompson2x

02-09-2008, 10:58 PM

Tusme: :rolleyes:

I'm sick of repeating myself, you clearly have no intention of even hearing anything that I say. You consistently make comments that I am wanting the NWO to teach us morality, or that I want them to teach us the ways of life when I have said nothing of the sort. Sorry to be so mean, but frankly, I'm sick of this idiocy. I am generally a nice guy but I can't believe the way you continue to distort my post after I have pointed it out multiple times. I don't have anything else to say to you, no point in wasting my time talking to a brick that thinks it's better than a rock.

It could be that one aspect of absolute consciousness is a dark agent that has dipped back into our reality to generate pain and suffering in order to evolve us, and that the Illuminati believe they are manifestations of this 'righteous' force, and so feel justified to do what they do.

If that's their thinking, I think they're perverting the truth and deceiving themselves, in order to gratify base desires, because I don't imagine an active, malevolent energy being a component of the absolute.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say - the Illuminati do feel justified, even if they are not. But what else I am saying is that we are only trapped in this reality if we think we are, if we fall for the lies and deception perpetrated by the NWO to keep us inside a reality prison. Once we can break out of that reality, and we can, they cannot control us anymore because they don't have the power of spanning reality, except as individuals. Perhaps they can go around and try to influence whoever they want, however they want, but their souls are ultimately good (as all souls are) and their egos have merely been allowed to incarnate multiple times... they have a great deal of evil burden on their shoulders and they're going to bear the weight, put if off as long as they want to it's still going to happen. I am saying, they believe that we create our own reality - they think the only reason WE exist in this reality is because this is the reality we choose to be in, not on a physical level because we have hundreds of thousands of copies of ourselves in multiple different realities, but on a consciousness level. Anyone who has a conscious level on this plane clearly is creating their own reality where they allow themselves to be controlled and subjugated. That's all I'm trying to say.

You wouldn't be able to tell because some people in this thread refuse to even TRY to grasp the concept since it's got "illuminati taint" all over it and they think anything connected with the Illuminati is inherently evil. That's just ignorant. It's not connected to them because they created it, it's connected to them because they decided to understand it and abuse it.

size_of_light

03-09-2008, 07:34 AM

That's exactly what I'm trying to say - the Illuminati do feel justified, even if they are not. But what else I am saying is that we are only trapped in this reality if we think we are, if we fall for the lies and deception perpetrated by the NWO to keep us inside a reality prison. Once we can break out of that reality, and we can, they cannot control us anymore because they don't have the power of spanning reality, except as individuals. Perhaps they can go around and try to influence whoever they want, however they want, but their souls are ultimately good (as all souls are) and their egos have merely been allowed to incarnate multiple times... they have a great deal of evil burden on their shoulders and they're going to bear the weight, put if off as long as they want to it's still going to happen. I am saying, they believe that we create our own reality - they think the only reason WE exist in this reality is because this is the reality we choose to be in, not on a physical level because we have hundreds of thousands of copies of ourselves in multiple different realities, but on a consciousness level. Anyone who has a conscious level on this plane clearly is creating their own reality where they allow themselves to be controlled and subjugated. That's all I'm trying to say.

I think you're more or less right, and an analogy that helps me understand what you're saying is this:

The Illuminati could be likened to a group of people crouching in a dark, low level spiritual fog; bonded by the knowledge that it's possible to stand up and take in the light, but exploiting the fact that you don't have to, because the fog is a perfectly natural phenomenon, and serves a purpose in the order of things.

They view all other people who are crouching down there with them in the gloom, who don't understand the higher possibilities, to be there for a reason, which must be to experience the qualities of this state of being, and so they seize on this as an excuse to acts as agents of the fog itself, because the fog must be what these people need.

That provides the justification they're looking for to act on their negative impulses, and create as much darkness, cold, confusion and misery as they can, for as long as they can, which will probably be for as long as there are others down there with them to exploit.

But we can stand up at any time, right, and the little bit of mist swirling around our ankles is enchanting and fine, when you're breathing in the brisk dawn air and feeling the warm rays of light melting the dew from your cheeks.

What do you think 'standing up' or 'reality-shifting' involves, on a practical level, in the here and now?

tusme

03-09-2008, 02:49 PM

bendoon

03-09-2008, 04:23 PM

They have no morality whatsoever.

They have no power whatsoever, except that which we give them freely.

We only have to pursuade 5 billion or so others to stop giving them power, thats it.

size_of_light

03-09-2008, 04:34 PM

Hi Size_of_light,

Good post, thanks...! ;)

It was never a case of anyone being right or wrong though...apart from the "morality" & "darkness being a teacher" bit, everything else, re, Mcthompson2x original post, made perfect sense...!

I was merely "carrying" his theory beyond the point of "morality" & "darkness being a teacher", ie, putting it through the "Truth & Time test"...

In both cases, your and Mcthompson2x's analysis, no "morality" exists...and therefore, my "argument" is, "darkness" cannot be considered a "teacher"...would you want your kids to be educated by a liar, thief, murderer or paedophile? Neither would I...! And before my mate, Mcthompson2x, "kick's-off" :D, I know this is not what he said...but these "types", they too represent a degree of "darkness", don't they? ;)

The reality is, however, whatever "morality" the illuminati is able to muster...no matter which way one looks at it, it will always be considered fake/false...!

Why? ...because it cannot exist without "sapping our energy"...that is why, they're so intent on keeping us content...literally, keeping us dumbed down and asleep... ;)

Now, contrast that with Truth...? Truth requires nothing from me, you or the illuminati to exist...!

Well, that me, I have nothing else to add to this thread...! ;)

Cheers!

Hi tusme,

Was working it out in my head, for myself, mostly, when I posted above, then ending on a q. for mcthompson, to elaborate further...

I agree with what you just said, including the point about them being completely immoral, though they may justify it to themselves differently.

They may see themselves as teachers in some perverse sense, but they're more like leeches, and ultimately irrelevant to us.

If anything is to be learned from the darkness, they need to be separated from it, and seen as being with it, and not of it, and then brushed aside entirely.

We can, and in fact have to learn from darkness itself (negativity/suffering are probably better words to use here), because it's all around us, all our lives, and will stay with us until we come to view it not as something to fear, but as a simple fact of life, and the most readily available raw material for growth, and ultimately, transcendence.

Shit does make the best fertiliser, and it's definitely raining shit right now.

tusme

03-09-2008, 04:58 PM

They have no morality whatsoever.

They have no power whatsoever, except that which we give them freely.

We only have to pursuade 5 billion or so others to stop giving them power, thats it.
Bingo! ;)

Now, can someone turn "ON" the lights...and waketheflockup! :D

tusme

03-09-2008, 06:09 PM

Hi tusme,

Was working it out in my head, for myself, mostly, when I posted above, then ending on a q. for mcthompson, to elaborate further...

I agree with what you just said, including the point about them being completely immoral, though they may justify it to themselves differently.

They may see themselves as teachers in some perverse sense, but they're more like leeches, and ultimately irrelevant to us.

If anything is to be learned from the darkness, they need to be separated from it, and seen as being with it, and not of it, and then brushed aside entirely.

We can, and in fact have to learn from darkness itself (negativity/suffering are probably better words to use here), because it's all around us, all our lives, and will stay with us until we come to view it not as something to fear, but as a simple fact of life, and the most readily available raw material for growth, and ultimately, transcendence.

Shit does make the best fertiliser, and it's definitely raining shit right now.
Hi Size_of_light,

So I'm not going crazy then...!? :D

And I agree with what you're saying...however, for me personally, it's my "stand in defiance of darkness or negativity", that I choose not to want to learn anything from them...

My advice to people, is usually...our physical being (throughout its existence) is (constantly) capable of both, emitting and receiving energy. Meaning, when we emit energy (radiate outwards), its possible for it to be done in both a positive & negative manner... And similarly, when we receive (absorb) energy, it is possible for that energy to be interpreted as either positive or negative energy...

On a basic level, it is quite easy to interpret these (darkness/negative) energies, like for instance, someone disrespecting another...and in most cases, a quick and decisive response is all it requires to deal with it... In my case, though, I put it through the "Truth & Time test"...:D

However, in the case, of the illuminati, it is not as simple as taking it (the negative energy) all in and then responding to it quickly and decisively...

Why? because I run the risk of getting caught up or sucked into the negativity the illuminati is generating, processing and projecting...to all and sundry, and the Universe! :D

So, in such a case, rather than "wasting time", trying to interpret whether an energy is in fact a negative energy or indeed, because there's no way of knowing but very possibly connected to the illuminati negative energy, I'd rather keep that "darkness/negativity" at arms length...meaning, while I acknowledge and respect it's (the darkness/negative energy's) existence, I want no association with it...!

And in that way, I allow Truth to "engage" that negative energy for me...which in turn, allows me to continue my Truth destiny...through that "blackhole"... ;)

I hope that made sense, otherwise, let me know, I'd be more than happy to elaborate further...and if there is anyone else wishing to ask questions, please feel free...!

Otherwise, I agree 100%, re, sh!t being the best fertiliser...! :D

Cheers!

size_of_light

03-09-2008, 06:20 PM

tusme

03-09-2008, 06:36 PM

tusme,

no, I understand what you're saying. I don't think we actually disagree on anything, just have different ways of describing/explaining it.

When it comes to the Illuminati or whatever you want to call them, they can fuck off. I'm not interested in their shit, or learning anything from them at all.
Hi Size_of_light,

I'm glad, at least one other person, is able to make sense of what goes on in my mind... :D

Yeah...fuck the illuminati!! ...and their "darkness"!! :D

Cheers!!

mcthompson2x

03-09-2008, 10:57 PM

I think you're more or less right, and an analogy that helps me understand what you're saying is this:

The Illuminati could be likened to a group of people crouching in a dark, low level spiritual fog; bonded by the knowledge that it's possible to stand up and take in the light, but exploiting the fact that you don't have to, because the fog is a perfectly natural phenomenon, and serves a purpose in the order of things.

They view all other people who are crouching down there with them in the gloom, who don't understand the higher possibilities, to be there for a reason, which must be to experience the qualities of this state of being, and so they seize on this as an excuse to acts as agents of the fog itself, because the fog must be what these people need.

That provides the justification they're looking for to act on their negative impulses, and create as much darkness, cold, confusion and misery as they can, for as long as they can, which will probably be for as long as there are others down there with them to exploit.

But we can stand up at any time, right, and the little bit of mist swirling around our ankles is enchanting and fine, when you're breathing in the brisk dawn air and feeling the warm rays of light melting the dew from your cheeks.

What do you think 'standing up' or 'reality-shifting' involves, on a practical level, in the here and now?

Perfect description, I think you are dead on.

As for reality shifting, I think that in order for people to understand how to navigate through the multiple different realms of possibility they must first understand that they have the ability to do so. Since it is a mental thing, the decisions that one makes and the worldview that one has will effect what plane of existence they reside on. The paranoid and fearful will reside in a reality that gives them exactly what they want - reasons to be paranoid and afraid. I think when the ascension occurs in 2012, it is only going to occur for people who literally want it, and you can consciously want it without literally wanting it. To literally want it, you must make lifestyle adjustments and stop poisoning yourself. To only consciously want it means you have to just say the right things and tell yourself you deserve it without doing any hard work. I think that once we begin to master this reality shifting, the hard work will seem less and less the more we understand how to do it. Eventually humans might evolve to the point where they can do it at will - although I think we already can. What I mean by that is, I think we will be able to shift reality without even having to consider a worldview or an inner reflection of how we perceive the outer world because those concepts will no longer exist to imprison our souls. I think we can literally shift our consciousness into alternate timelines, although facets of ourselves remain in all realities, working out possibilities and consequences. Although there are probably a billion different variations of me in various different timelines, my conscious only resides in the one I'm typing through. That isn't to say that those other versions of me do not have a conscious, but the soul fragment that I am observing reality through can only view from one perspective at a time currently. No person can observe from two different people's viewpoints LITERALLY - only imaginatively. But the quest that my soul is on - the perspective that remains constant for me - only seems to reside in "one reality" when in reality my decisions - and everyone's decisions, conversely and individually - have probably catapulted me through numerous different possible realities, but the shifting is so subtle that our egos - which were built up and enforced by Illuminati brainwashing - refuse to notice. The same can probably be said of every individual reading this thread.

bendoon

04-09-2008, 12:14 AM

2012, right they have primed everyone to expect something on that date and right on cue they will provide you with that something, have no fear.

eternal_spirit

04-09-2008, 12:32 AM

2012 is a Illuminati scam. The Mayan's also have their Freemasons. Aleister Crowley was initiated into the Scottish Rite by a Mayan Shaman.

If you're planning on waiting around for ascension day you may as well say it's game over now.

If anything happens in 2012 you can bet it will be another box of electronic tricks to do with HAARP type technologies or a Project Blue beam scenario.

Some will be fooled into believing it's some kind of natural Earth phenomenon, they can stimulate your mind in which ever way suits their agendas. Remember the Wizard of Oz.

BTW Mcthompson please leave some spaces between your words, it's difficult to read your posts.

mcthompson2x

04-09-2008, 03:16 AM

damagedbrainn

04-09-2008, 10:07 AM

anonymousoneuk

04-09-2008, 10:16 AM

tusme

04-09-2008, 10:28 AM

A simple analogy for those having difficulty understanding the basic concept being discussed: You can't gain strength without the existance of resistance. Likewise, you don't gain such strength by giving into it, but by, well, resisting it. The absense of resistance, and anything generally challenging, would only result in stagnant atrophy.

The universe operates entirely through oppossing forces and the inevitible reconcillatory balance that results from their conflict. If it didn't, then nothing would exist.
Hi Damagedbrainn,

Interesting comment... ;)

I agree entirely...however, everything you're saying, is basically, Physical realm (level) dynamics/potential...

In the Spiritual realm, due to the principle of Infinity (and Truth)...no-thing is required to maintain a-thing's existence...

Therefore, whatever result it is you want or don't want, will exist in infinite possibilities, regardless of "strength", "resistence" or whatever...

Hope that makes sense...? ;)

Cheers!

anonymousoneuk

04-09-2008, 10:30 AM

This will make more sense to those of you who understand the idea of simultaneous time, reality shifting, holographic existence, etc.

I have been considering this particular aspect lately and it's helped me to cope with suffering and the idea that it's self-created for everyone. I am not saying that people who are starving in third world countries created their own suffering, because that is false, in one sense (that sense being that the US probably created some war in that region). But in the sense of an individual soul, our soul is more powerful than any people in this holographic world. I also am beginning to understand that the more you know about reality - like, the more you understand that reality shifting is REAL and try to understand how to do it - the less power anyone can have over you because you can merely shift into another dimension at your own will. We do this on a regular basis, even people who don't believe in it - every time you make a decision, mental or physically manifested, you move into another reality, the manifestation of what was once a potential reality becoming real to the individual who perceives the situation. Since all reality exist at once, we don't really exist as a collective - people can reside in different versions of themselves at will, but because everyone believes in linear time, it tricks us into thinking that we must take certain actions to realize a certain outcome. You will be hard-pressed to find anyone outside of Tibet who can really accept at face value that we can shift dimensions at all - I accept that it is possible but I need more evidence to actually believe it is 100% true. I still think it makes more sense than anything else and that's why I'm pursuing this now...

Anyway, I'm rambling too much without getting to the point.

Perhaps these tricksters are merely fulfilling the reality desire they want - they know that all darkness is agent of god or the evolved self as well. Darkness is just a teacher so that those in the light can learn how to appreciate. All of those in the dark will return to the light if they choose to, or more likely, at what point they choose to (why would anyone spend eternity in anything?). So, they feel entitled since most people who live in THIS reality choose to be so stupid/ignorant that they must be fulfilling a soul contract (actually there is no question, since everyone is always fulfilling a soul contract or we wouldn't be here). They are merely doing what they want, which is all we're put here to do, and souls who can't learn how to shift realities and empower themselves are on a subconscious level only doing what they want to do as well.

Perhaps the extreme darkness is supposed to be a teacher - and if you wish to believe in a collective reality, perhaps the more that people need to learn the greater the darkness appears. This could foreshadow great change (and probably does, since everyone reading this has decided to shift into the reality that I'm posting this in! Haha... I think.)

Okay sure, but i don't think it's most likely that they think of themselves as teachers.

All serve the All by simply existing, they may or may not maintain an understanding of this.

Perhaps the extreme darkness is supposed to be a teacher - and if you wish to believe in a collective reality, perhaps the more that people need to learn the greater the darkness appears. This could foreshadow great change (and probably does, since everyone reading this has decided to shift into the reality that I'm posting this in! Haha... I think.)

Bro!

I wrote about this same idea like 2 weeks ago.

The idea that we all create our won realities.

That there are parallel realities based on our choices.

That we can create any reality we want and those that find themselves within our own realities have chosen to be in them.

The problems with it are however that:

1) It means that we can create any reality we want and morality does not exist, we reason with ourselves, as you have, that anyone who finds themselves in our reality, chose to be here to learn, so i have no responsibility except to do what i like.

2) You basically invalidate the importance of anyone elses existance but your own.

For example, we reading your post now, are just versions of ourselves that have chosen to incarnate into your reality right and we are subject to you, lord and master of your reality right???

And what does that make you to me?

A pawn to be manipulated within my reality right? So i can create any reality i like and you will have no choice but to come along for the ride eh?

This is called sollophism, but if it can be reason with in less Amoral terms then maybe it works out, what do you think?

3) It would mean that beings have chosen to incarnate into each version of all potensial probable reallities.

4) I'm pretty sure the above idea takes the concept of freewill the fuck out!:confused:

5) There's more i made about 30 pages of notes on this concept.

I also am beginning to understand that the more you know about reality - like, the more you understand that reality shifting is REAL and try to understand how to do it - the less power anyone can have over you because you can merely shift into another dimension at your own will.

Bro!

I had this exact same thought, it's why i just ordered about 20 books.

I have a theorey that the more you understand about the patterns within the sensate based data we acculated and knowledge formed there from, it effects us on a subconscious level, leading to an emotion and actual realise that we are in control.

But the morality of this needs to be reasoned with and study is required.

You can say it's true, but wishful thinking will only get you so far IMO.

Peace

anonymousoneuk

04-09-2008, 10:34 AM

Hi Damagedbrainn,

Interesting comment... ;)

I agree entirely...however, everything you're saying, is basically, Physical realm (level) dynamics/potential...

In the Spiritual realm, due to the principle of Infinity (and Truth)...no-thing is required to maintain a-thing's existence...

Therefore, whatever result it is you want or don't want, will exist in infinite possibilities, regardless of "strength", "resistence" or whatever...

Hope that makes sense...? ;)

Cheers!

Spiritual systems must interact with physical systems however you cannot separate you existance totally from physical from, a greater part of yourself encompasses the understanding and memory of experience of it.

Without laws to govern existance, you end up with too many random weird possible realities, creation is beutiful because of the laws that govern it, we can become totally free by joining in unison with the greater, once of consciousness has evolved into something far beyond our linear ego based imaginations, eventually to become infinite.

anonymousoneuk

04-09-2008, 10:36 AM

tusme

04-09-2008, 11:12 AM

Spiritual systems must interact with physical systems however you cannot separate you existance totally from physical from, a greater part of yourself encompasses the understanding and memory of experience of it.

Without laws to govern existance, you end up with too many random weird possible realities, creation is beutiful because of the laws that govern it, we can become totally free by joining in unison with the greater, once of consciousness has evolved into something far beyond our linear ego based imaginations, eventually to become infinite.
Hi Anonymousoneuk,

Of-course the Spiritual & Physical systems interact...if only for the Truth, they have to! ;)

Otherwise, in the Physical realm, anyway, every existence will be "randomly wierd..." ;)

As a Physical being, only in death is it possible for me to separate myself from the Physical realm...but, separation from my own Spirit and indeed, the Spiritual realm is forever impossible...!

The Physical realm is dependent on the Spiritual (Truth) realm...

However, in the case of the Spiritual Realm, all energies exists perfectly, peaceful and harmoniously in accordance with the principles of Truth...

The Spiritual realm is pure energy, it requires no other energy to maintain it's existence...

Hope this makes sense...?

Cheers!

tusme

04-09-2008, 11:14 AM

To reiterate, there are rules, not everything is possible, as it would not from stable energy systems and would result in random , weird and horrific possible realities.
Hi again,

Yeah...in the Physical realm, its called Free-will...and, in the Spiritual Realm, it is called Truth... ;)

Cheers!

eternal_spirit

04-09-2008, 12:17 PM

Opinions about 2012 noted, thanks. I see nothing wrong with looking forward to something that I have come to believe seems likely. I am not going to kill myself if it doesn't happen, I'll get over it, in the meantime I see no reason to be skeptical and every reason to believe it. All signs point to yes for me - all of my research leads me to similar roads, this being the most frequent. I obviously have a lot of other reasons to believe what I do, not all of them entirely evidential. I tend to think that doom-and-gloom folks just can't believe in 2012 because it sounds too good to be true, and a lot of Christians can't accept it because it means things aren't going to be working out the way Revelation predicts, which would invalidate their entire belief system. Atheists can't believe it because they don't believe in anything spiritual and assume that all occult information is part of a bizarre Illuminati religion, and thus insane and unlikely. I believe what I do because I have plenty of my own compelling reasons to believe it. I know all of the reasons to be skeptical, and I know all of the reasons to be optimistic. I choose to be optimistic, because that's simply the way that I feel based on my current level of awareness.

I used to believe in this stuff and know all about all the other theories and stories that go with it.

Some people said 2012 Mayan calender could be out by a number of years either way. That the shift in conciousness ascension whatever you wanna call it, could happen years before or after the date 2012, I got tired of waiting around for it to happen.

And I'll try explain other reasons why I'm no longer a believer and throw in a few theories and opposing views as well.

(some say the ascension is an internal process and can be achieved at any time regardless of what the time or date is) Think alchemy:the esoteric meaning is to perfect the human and nothing to do with elixirs and turning lead into gold. Religion has apotheosis and enlightenment it's all the same thing. There's masons etc who are 33 degree are no wiser than the man on the street.

What a perfect deception their masters/Gurus play- they say follow these rules, rituals etc and you'll become a great spiritual being etc, the whole thing could be a scam and carrot on a stick, another few years, more rituals, higher degrees etc then you'll be there. It's another form of mind and physical control, some will waste a lifetime and get involved in some very strange practices trying to "get there."

Some Christians have ascension day in their calender to do with Christ's ascension to heaven (I think that's what it means) Some New Agers believe in Christ conciousness which to them is connecting to their higher self, and becoming ascended/enlightened.

Eugenicists and trans-humanists were also the spawn of the Elite/mystery school religions, they see themselves as illuminated/enlightened and from a higher form of spirit and being.... they truly believe they are like Gods on Earth and the masses (mass) are the cattle/goyim and lower beings culled by them the shepherds and preached to and used as slaves.

Others will say man is perfect by nature and or God made man in his own image. So why fix it if it's not broken.
Ascension 2012
It can be for some people who need to believe in something spiritual because they lack true spirit inside themselves and they need a substitute for religion to feed their superstitious and imaginative nature and sense of wonder.

Think how many stories mankind has been told similar or the same to 2012, it's a scam that's been played on people through out history.
2012
It's the same as what some religious people believe that their Messiah or God itself will return and off all the bad guys and it will be Heaven on Earth, 2012 is for those who don't believe in a Messiah or divine intervention by a God. the elite have a trap and lie to cater for everyone's needs/beliefs.

Also those who think the occult etc is better than religion the occult came out of religion and therefore is a set of rules rituals and dogmatic beliefs. So it could be said the Elite/Illuminati invented the occult and all the symbols etc that go with it. So in a sense you would be following another religion.

Also if people are waiting around for 2012 many will not be focused on the real problems the NWO Big Brother loss of freedoms new laws etc etc and are of no opposition to the NWO players.

No one can prove that Mayan calender dates back to the time they say it came from, you'd just be taking some so called experts word that it does. For all we know the calender may have been created in recent times as a scam.

Even if the Calender is genuine people will wait for some kind of miracle ... you'd still be basing your beliefs on faith (same as religion or belief in good aliens will save the day) not a definite reality.

So it's basically party of the Masonic Mystery school New Age religon which much is just rehashes of previous older stories.

tusme

04-09-2008, 12:59 PM

I used to believe in this stuff and know all about all the other theories and stories that go with it.

Some people said 2012 Mayan calender could be out by a number of years either way. That the shift in conciousness ascension whatever you wanna call it, could happen years before or after the date 2012, I got tired of waiting around for it to happen.

And I'll try explain other reasons why I'm no longer a believer and throw in a few theories and opposing views as well.

(some say the ascension is an internal process and can be achieved at any time regardless of what the time or date is) Think alchemy:the esoteric meaning is to perfect the human and nothing to do with elixirs and turning lead into gold. Religion has apotheosis and enlightenment it's all the same thing. There's masons etc who are 33 degree are no wiser than the man on the street.

What a perfect deception their masters/Gurus play- they say follow these rules, rituals etc and you'll become a great spiritual being etc, the whole thing could be a scam and carrot on a stick, another few years, more rituals, higher degrees etc then you'll be there. It's another form of mind and physical control, some will waste a lifetime and get involved in some very strange practices trying to "get there."

Some Christians have ascension day in their calender to do with Christ's ascension to heaven (I think that's what it means) Some New Agers believe in Christ conciousness which to them is connecting to their higher self, and becoming ascended/enlightened.

Eugenicists and trans-humanists were also the spawn of the Elite/mystery school religions, they see themselves as illuminated/enlightened and from a higher form of spirit and being.... they truly believe they are like Gods on Earth and the masses (mass) are the cattle/goyim and lower beings culled by them the shepherds and preached to and used as slaves.

Others will say man is perfect by nature and or God made man in his own image. So why fix it if it's not broken.
Ascension 2012
It can be for some people who need to believe in something spiritual because they lack true spirit inside themselves and they need a substitute for religion to feed their superstitious and imaginative nature and sense of wonder.

Think how many stories mankind has been told similar or the same to 2012, it's a scam that's been played on people through out history.
2012
It's the same as what some religious people believe that their Messiah or God itself will return and off all the bad guys and it will be Heaven on Earth, 2012 is for those who don't believe in a Messiah or divine intervention by a God. the elite have a trap and lie to cater for everyone's needs/beliefs.

Also those who think the occult etc is better than religion the occult came out of religion and therefore is a set of rules rituals and dogmatic beliefs. So it could be said the Elite/Illuminati invented the occult and all the symbols etc that go with it. So in a sense you would be following another religion.

Also if people are waiting around for 2012 many will not be focused on the real problems the NWO Big Brother loss of freedoms new laws etc etc and are of no opposition to the NWO players.

No one can prove that Mayan calender dates back to the time they say it came from, you'd just be taking some so called experts word that it does. For all we know the calender may have been created in recent times as a scam.

Even if the Calender is genuine people will wait for some kind of miracle ... you'd still be basing your beliefs on faith (same as religion or belief in good aliens will save the day) not a definite reality.

So it's basically party of the Masonic Mystery school New Age religon which much is just rehashes of previous older stories.
Hi Eternal_spirit,

Wow! Thanks for that (big) bit of insight...brilliant post!

I dunno what this 2012 paranoia is all about...!? To be honest, I couldn't give a sh!te about it and I hope, whatever it's about, it never becomes a part of my consciousness...!

And this is not a dig at Mcthompson2x...but, your post made perfect sense...to me it did, anyway!

Cheers!

bendoon

04-09-2008, 01:03 PM

tusme

04-09-2008, 01:14 PM

I have a feeling that they are planning something big for the London Olympics now they have primed people with the 2012 date. Maybe they will introduce the new world leader (antichrist).

(just a hunch, not a prediction)
Hi Bendoon,

Hmm...the London Olympics has always caused me abit of wonder, in relation to all this 2012 paranoia...!?

Cheers

bendoon

04-09-2008, 01:20 PM

What better place to introduce the world to the new leader than London (Babylon),

anonymousoneuk

04-09-2008, 01:26 PM

Hi Anonymousoneuk,

Of-course the Spiritual & Physical systems interact...if only for the Truth, they have to! ;)

Otherwise, in the Physical realm, anyway, every existence will be "randomly wierd..." ;)

As a Physical being, only in death is it possible for me to separate myself from the Physical realm...but, separation from my own Spirit and indeed, the Spiritual realm is forever impossible...!

The Physical realm is dependent on the Spiritual (Truth) realm...

However, in the case of the Spiritual Realm, all energies exists perfectly, peaceful and harmoniously in accordance with the principles of Truth...

The Spiritual realm is pure energy, it requires no other energy to maintain it's existence...

Hope this makes sense...?

Cheers!

Please explain this truth?

You understand that to understand the full truth that one would have to understand all of creation within perspective, otherwise, i can know what 1 is, but how cna i know what 1 is without knowing what 2 is?

Everything must be in perspective to understand even the simplest of things.

Therefore, one must infact be all of consciousness, be an infinite being in order to understand the truth of finity, which is why the creator, created finite consciousness, to understand infinity and give meaning to the concept.

How does that ring with you?

That's my truth, what is your truth?

Peace

tusme

04-09-2008, 01:33 PM

What better place to introduce the world to the new leader than London (Babylon),
I would loathe the idea of initiating a conspiracy on these forums...imagine if it's Hilary Clinton?

David Icke's predictions would be right then, won't it!? :confused: :mad:

anonymousoneuk

04-09-2008, 01:34 PM

I used to believe in this stuff and know all about all the other theories and stories that go with it.

Some people said 2012 Mayan calender could be out by a number of years either way. That the shift in conciousness ascension whatever you wanna call it, could happen years before or after the date 2012, I got tired of waiting around for it to happen.

And I'll try explain other reasons why I'm no longer a believer and throw in a few theories and opposing views as well.

(some say the ascension is an internal process and can be achieved at any time regardless of what the time or date is) Think alchemy:the esoteric meaning is to perfect the human and nothing to do with elixirs and turning lead into gold. Religion has apotheosis and enlightenment it's all the same thing. There's masons etc who are 33 degree are no wiser than the man on the street.

What a perfect deception their masters/Gurus play- they say follow these rules, rituals etc and you'll become a great spiritual being etc, the whole thing could be a scam and carrot on a stick, another few years, more rituals, higher degrees etc then you'll be there. It's another form of mind and physical control, some will waste a lifetime and get involved in some very strange practices trying to "get there."

Some Christians have ascension day in their calender to do with Christ's ascension to heaven (I think that's what it means) Some New Agers believe in Christ conciousness which to them is connecting to their higher self, and becoming ascended/enlightened.

Eugenicists and trans-humanists were also the spawn of the Elite/mystery school religions, they see themselves as illuminated/enlightened and from a higher form of spirit and being.... they truly believe they are like Gods on Earth and the masses (mass) are the cattle/goyim and lower beings culled by them the shepherds and preached to and used as slaves.

Others will say man is perfect by nature and or God made man in his own image. So why fix it if it's not broken.
Ascension 2012
It can be for some people who need to believe in something spiritual because they lack true spirit inside themselves and they need a substitute for religion to feed their superstitious and imaginative nature and sense of wonder.

Think how many stories mankind has been told similar or the same to 2012, it's a scam that's been played on people through out history.
2012
It's the same as what some religious people believe that their Messiah or God itself will return and off all the bad guys and it will be Heaven on Earth, 2012 is for those who don't believe in a Messiah or divine intervention by a God. the elite have a trap and lie to cater for everyone's needs/beliefs.

Also those who think the occult etc is better than religion the occult came out of religion and therefore is a set of rules rituals and dogmatic beliefs. So it could be said the Elite/Illuminati invented the occult and all the symbols etc that go with it. So in a sense you would be following another religion.

Also if people are waiting around for 2012 many will not be focused on the real problems the NWO Big Brother loss of freedoms new laws etc etc and are of no opposition to the NWO players.

No one can prove that Mayan calender dates back to the time they say it came from, you'd just be taking some so called experts word that it does. For all we know the calender may have been created in recent times as a scam.

Even if the Calender is genuine people will wait for some kind of miracle ... you'd still be basing your beliefs on faith (same as religion or belief in good aliens will save the day) not a definite reality.

So it's basically party of the Masonic Mystery school New Age religon which much is just rehashes of previous older stories.

Um.. yea, but i heard that we aligned with the galatic centre and reach a point of max solar activity in 2012 and stuff...

Even if the Calender is genuine people will wait for some kind of miracle ... you'd still be basing your beliefs on faith (same as religion or belief in good aliens will save the day) not a definite reality.

Um.. yea, but everything we believe is on faith, we have faith in our 5 senses and a whole bunch of other stuff, that creates our interpretation or projection of reality.

You see truth or existance can be logically identified in formular and quantum physics has proven that observation of particles effects their behaviour, so trying to establish an objective reality upon which truth could be based is a kinda tricky deal, i have a theory that truth may be identified in the way of pattern recognition, up until we have full realisation, as to keep us ever desiring forward progression so that a consciousness never ceases in it's expression.

Anyway with 2012, i have no idea, no point in believing or disbelieving it, or believe or don't believe based on what you think helps you move forward with your search for truth, i would not convince myself that such a thing was inevitable unless i could think of a real benefit to believing in it however..

Peace.

tusme

04-09-2008, 02:10 PM

Please explain this truth?

You understand that to understand the full truth that one would have to understand all of creation within perspective, otherwise, i can know what 1 is, but how cna i know what 1 is without knowing what 2 is?

Everything must be in perspective to understand even the simplest of things.

Therefore, one must infact be all of consciousness, be an infinite being in order to understand the truth of finity, which is why the creator, created finite consciousness, to understand infinity and give meaning to the concept.

How does that ring with you?

That's my truth, what is your truth?

Peace
Hi Anonymousoneuk,

We're going off-topic, I don't fancy getting "banned" for this type of transgression... ;)

Anyway, I hope Mcthompson2x won't mind...?

Truth is simply a gift to all mankind...however, unlike a "birthday gift", the "Truth gift" is, and will always be, exclusively owned by the Universe/God/Creator or whatever name you'd prefer to know Him/Her by...

In the Physical realm, Truth is merely offered to us...in the Spiritual (Truth) realm, we are infinitely & eternally connected to that Truth...

And this is my definition of Truth...

In it's Universal form or everyday occurrence, Truth, since the beginning of Time has and always will be, simply, The Gift to all of mankind.
We have the freedom to either use it or abuse it...using it in conjuction with it's Universal properties and dynamics, has and always will ultimately only produce a positive consequence...and by contrast, abusing it, has and always will ultimately only produce a disproportionate, unpredictable, unbalanced or selective consequence, and hence, by abusing Truth, we do so at our peril.

Hope that made sense...!?

Otherwise, you can read some more about my understanding of Truth and it's origins here (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30437)...

Cheers!

anonymousoneuk

04-09-2008, 02:44 PM

Hope that made sense...!?

Otherwise, you can read some more about my understanding of Truth and it's origins here (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30437)...

Cheers!

Maybe...

I practise philosophy of non-belief, i don't believe objective truth can be accessable to a subjective consciousness.

The history of philosophical thought has given great evidence to this.

I admire all beings who try to try to make sense of potensials of higher existances however, so goodluck to you.

Peace

tusme

04-09-2008, 03:36 PM

Maybe...

I practise philosophy of non-belief, i don't believe objective truth can be accessable to a subjective consciousness.

The history of philosophical thought has given great evidence to this.

I admire all beings who try to try to make sense of potensials of higher existances however, so goodluck to you.

Peace
Hi Anonymousoneuk,

My philosophy is simply, knowing and being Truth...

So in fact, I might also be praticing the philosophy of "non-belief"....which, if I'm honest, I've never had to rely on "historical evidence" of any kind, whatsoever...just pure Truth energy revealing itself to me, through my Spirit.

And the result, if I can describe it as such, is...humility with empowerment! ...or as others have said, "being at One with the Universe".

Lastly, this experience is not unique to a certain few, ie, Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi, to name but a few...because we all possess a Spirit, these Truth experiences are indeed, accessible to each and everyone wishing to realise, it exists within themselves...and throughout the Universe... ;)

Well, Good Luck to you too...! ;)

Cheers!

mcthompson2x

04-09-2008, 10:57 PM

[quote]1) It means that we can create any reality we want and morality does not exist, we reason with ourselves, as you have, that anyone who finds themselves in our reality, chose to be here to learn, so i have no responsibility except to do what i like.

Sorry, but that is simply not what I said or what I meant. While you really are only here to do what you want to do (literally), you obviously shouldn't do things that are going to have negative consequences. The only way that people can learn what is right is by doing what is wrong and realizing why it was wrong. This is why organized religion does not work - it tells people the rules and what to believe, but it never explains why to believe them or even how to believe them. We are all in our own little individual reality, and the fact that we all have singular conscience dispositions is literal proof of that. The fact that two people can interpret one event in two different ways proves that reality is malleable. So while people can do whatever they want and learn how to use their powers, negativity won't get them very far so it would be discarded pretty quickly in a normal state of affairs. Unfortunately because of the centuries of justified negativity that have been ingrained into our minds, we can't get over the stupidity and we just keep repeating our mistakes. That's why the theory hasn't worked so far - because it's grounded in a false sense of reality.

2) You basically invalidate the importance of anyone elses existance but your own.

Why is that? I just don't get it. You can respect that other people have their own individual realities and respect their rights if you want your own to be reflected - afterall, your subconscious decides what happens to your soul, not your conscience (which is a manifestation of the ego, a program created to own our minds). Your subconscious will not choose to take self-destructive actions, but it will allow your ego to take self-destructive actions. Because self-destructive actions are inherently negative, the self-destructive soul will find himself or herself in a reality that is conducive to that mindset pretty quickly.

And what does that make you to me?

A pawn to be manipulated within my reality right? So i can create any reality i like and you will have no choice but to come along for the ride eh?

Why is your first assumption that people are pawns if they have individual realities? That is the thought of a mentally ill mind. A healthy mind would know not to harm other minds because we all ultimately reconnect at some point. We are all the same mind.

I also don't understand why you think everyone else is subject to your reality shift - can't they all have their own realities? It seems the most likely assumption to me to be correct... I never said anyone is subject to the reality of anyone else, nor did I imply it.

You can say it's true, but wishful thinking will only get you so far IMO.

WIshful thinking is not intellectual inquiry, and intellectual inquiry shouldn't be restricted for the sake of a false morality.

anonymousoneuk

05-09-2008, 07:39 AM

[quote]

Why is that? I just don't get it. You can respect that other people have their own individual realities and respect their rights if you want your own to be reflected - afterall, your subconscious decides what happens to your soul, not your conscience (which is a manifestation of the ego, a program created to own our minds). Your subconscious will not choose to take self-destructive actions, but it will allow your ego to take self-destructive actions. Because self-destructive actions are inherently negative, the self-destructive soul will find himself or herself in a reality that is conducive to that mindset pretty quickly.

Why is your first assumption that people are pawns if they have individual realities? That is the thought of a mentally ill mind. A healthy mind would know not to harm other minds because we all ultimately reconnect at some point. We are all the same mind.

I also don't understand why you think everyone else is subject to your reality shift - can't they all have their own realities? It seems the most likely assumption to me to be correct... I never said anyone is subject to the reality of anyone else, nor did I imply it.

WIshful thinking is not intellectual inquiry, and intellectual inquiry shouldn't be restricted for the sake of a false morality.

I suggested people would become pawns because whether you realise it or not that is what people would become, pawns to this concepts which is solophistic and insulting to most philosophers.

They would become pawns if you choose to become self destructive and fearful and shifted into a negative reality , people would be powerless pawns to your almight control over the destiny of the global reality.

On the other side of the coin.

So let's say you shift out of this reality, what happens to the reality you left behind, lets say some self destructive youth shifts us from this timeline, further into a negative reality, what happenes to you in that reality, do you pop out, disappear in a flash of light?

If not then a version of yourself would be subjugated to the will of that persons reality creation, the only way in which this would not negate your freewill, is if some alternate version of yourself choose to incarnate into a destructive reality.

Your philosphy is solophistic and your approach to reasoning with it egocentric.

Have a good day :)

P.s I'm being whimsically antagonistic, but i am just trying to learn with you here.

Peace

size_of_light

05-09-2008, 09:33 AM

Perfect description, I think you are dead on.

As for reality shifting, I think that in order for people to understand how to navigate through the multiple different realms of possibility they must first understand that they have the ability to do so. Since it is a mental thing, the decisions that one makes and the worldview that one has will effect what plane of existence they reside on. The paranoid and fearful will reside in a reality that gives them exactly what they want - reasons to be paranoid and afraid. I think when the ascension occurs in 2012, it is only going to occur for people who literally want it, and you can consciously want it without literally wanting it. To literally want it, you must make lifestyle adjustments and stop poisoning yourself. To only consciously want it means you have to just say the right things and tell yourself you deserve it without doing any hard work. I think that once we begin to master this reality shifting, the hard work will seem less and less the more we understand how to do it. Eventually humans might evolve to the point where they can do it at will - although I think we already can. What I mean by that is, I think we will be able to shift reality without even having to consider a worldview or an inner reflection of how we perceive the outer world because those concepts will no longer exist to imprison our souls. I think we can literally shift our consciousness into alternate timelines, although facets of ourselves remain in all realities, working out possibilities and consequences. Although there are probably a billion different variations of me in various different timelines, my conscious only resides in the one I'm typing through. That isn't to say that those other versions of me do not have a conscious, but the soul fragment that I am observing reality through can only view from one perspective at a time currently. No person can observe from two different people's viewpoints LITERALLY - only imaginatively. But the quest that my soul is on - the perspective that remains constant for me - only seems to reside in "one reality" when in reality my decisions - and everyone's decisions, conversely and individually - have probably catapulted me through numerous different possible realities, but the shifting is so subtle that our egos - which were built up and enforced by Illuminati brainwashing - refuse to notice. The same can probably be said of every individual reading this thread.

Some traditional spiritual paths are basically instruction manuals guiding you through the steps necessary to master the potential you’re talking about.

I’m not sure it’s an easy thing to do.

If there’s different density levels of consciousness, and also karma to contend with, then there might be real restrictions on what we can achieve just by wanting it, and precise methods to adopt in order to navigate a route that allows us to escape those limitations.

It starts with the recognition that ‘we are what we think’, and develops from there. For a few special individuals, it might be an accelerated development thing, but I think for most of us, there’s probably no easy mind trick to really ‘I Dream of Jeannie-blink’ our way into different realms at will.

If a certain process of habitually negative decision-making over a long, long period of time, got us down to this point we're at, then we might have to simply turn around and start climbing back out with a consistent , concerted and strenuous effort to react positively to all of our experiences, and gradually build up the momentum needed to push us back up to the surface.

Re: multiple identities, etc. there’s a recent thread that brought up the story of John Titor, the internet poster from the turn of the century, who claimed to be a time traveler from the future. I think it was a hoax, but he had some interesting things to say about morality and parallel universes and how every choice you make creates a junctures that branches ‘you’ off into multiple timelines, expanding into infinity, which basically renders the notions of good and evil meaningless, but the concept of personal morality paramount, since every possibility inevitably plays itself out, and all you can really do is use your own rudder of morality to steer you into positive realities.

How do you ‘jump out of', or 'shift' from whatever reality you're in? Anything you do will be a choice, and no matter what choice you make, you’ll still experience the same unbroken flow of reality, while other ‘you’s’ will go in other directions., as you’ve already explained more effectively than me.

Maybe there’ll be some sort of cosmic evolution like the 2012 thing, that will allow us to speed up our development, and become more consciousness-fluid while we’re still in our physical bodies, but even if that happens, and probably moreso if it does, the crucial thing is to be stable, and grounded, and apply common sense and sanity to all situations.

damagedbrainn

05-09-2008, 10:40 AM

Seriously...

They do not think of themselves as teachers, they probably understand that any interaction with a system or consciousness educates that consciousness, but for them to be in the least bit concerned with our spiritual progression.

I don't think so...

However, there could be some reason to the suggestion they are teachers, in the same way any system of consciousness from the most finite particles of matter to the most complex imaginable that interacts with any of consciousness, educates.

It depends on how you define consciousness and education, but if any part of my reality was not present right now, it would not make up the scene of my existance and so contribute to my progression and education.

Peace...

I don't think the point really had anything to do with morality, motives, or intentions; nor whether any action is right or wrong, good or evil. It's just a simple matter of cause and effect. Like the relationship between a predator and it's prey and the evolutionary advancements that result from this relationship. A prey animal will evolve various attributes in order to better escape its predator, thereby advancing as a species. This advancement was not the intention of the predator....the predator's only goal remains the death and consumption of the prey....rather it was the inseparable effect that was caused by the existance of the predator. Likewise, the predator will evolve its own attributes to match the advancements of its prey; however, the prey's motive is still simply to escape the predator, thereby threatening it with stravation and death.

sukyspook

05-09-2008, 11:04 AM

This subject very much a 'work in progress' for me but you may want to do your own research:

LUCIFERIAN WITCHCRAFT.....

I'm on the case of both - but not until this week have I been introduced to the 'concept' of both comprising a particular form of witchcraft which, imho, is a major part of the kabbalistic/occult/satanic/luciferian/illuminazionazi/rothschild new world odour modus operandii.

I've just ordered the book: Luciferian Witchcraft from Amazon - it's amazing how many books on 'the craft' you can get....hmmmmm.

In the meantime - you can read the book online here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Jv_gilqk-pwC&pg=PA391&lpg=PA391&dq=Black+Eagle+luciferian+witchcraft&source=web&ots=rujLhDJQ4g&sig=Lz39pTs4B78FdvpMmqHuJBoA7EQ&hl=en#PPA400,M1

This book explains how one can use this 'magic' for one's own personal 'development' (??????) however, I believe that those who would 'rule the world' under a satanic entity/mindset and are currently creating their version of 'hell' on Earth - use this very magic.

Listen to this final part of Chris Everard's short series on magic at:

www.britanniaradio.co.uk

http://domain1638172.sites.streamlinedns.co.uk/listenagain/cemagic.mp3

Check out this image:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/images/crests/apgb.gif

Notice "honi soi qui mal y pense" with a 'belt' wrapped around the centre shield (lions - listen to Chris Everard mp3 above).

The garter is the garter of the "Knights of the Garter" - the garter belt is.....witchcraft, according to Dr Margaret Alice Murray from the book "God of the Witches" - see p28 (30/91):

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/godwitch.pdf

And of course, we've been sold the lie of 'liberalism' which in that one word encapsulates the phrase (still) promoted by now deceased satanist Aleister Crowley - one of 'them' and self titled 'beast 666':
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" - which promotes a life without "the Divine Force in the universe that some men call God" (J Maxwell phrase) or moral compass - just look around you.

To conclude:

Luciferian Witchcraft/satanism/Liberalism = illuminazionist 'morality'.....

John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:31-33 (in Context) John 8 (Whole Chapter)

anonymousoneuk

05-09-2008, 11:32 AM

I don't think the point really had anything to do with morality, motives, or intentions; nor whether any action is right or wrong, good or evil. It's just a simple matter of cause and effect. Like the relationship between a predator and it's prey and the evolutionary advancements that result from this relationship. A prey animal will evolve various attributes in order to better escape its predator, thereby advancing as a species. This advancement was not the intention of the predator....the predator's only goal remains the death and consumption of the prey....rather it was the inseparable effect that was caused by the existance of the predator. Likewise, the predator will evolve its own attributes to match the advancements of its prey; however, the prey's motive is still simply to escape the predator, thereby threatening it with stravation and death.

What are you saying?

There is no objective standard of morality?

There is only cause and effect, a mechanical universe and that is that, is that what you are trying to say?

Peace

anonymousoneuk

05-09-2008, 06:35 PM

Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump

mcthompson2x

05-09-2008, 09:03 PM

What are you saying?

There is no objective standard of morality?

There is only cause and effect, a mechanical universe and that is that, is that what you are trying to say?

Peace

I think that both ideas can peacefully co-exist, but when you look at the big picture (as we look at the big picture in relation to the animal kingdom), there really is only cause and effect. When antibodies kill a virus, do we think it's immoral? Or when a virus kills a body, do we think the virus is immoral?

What if that virus is capable of thought processes that we cannot conceive of and does, in fact, exist in a conventional sense? If consciousness is non-local that it is perfectly plausible. Nature just does what nature does. Morality is our perspective on what is healthy and what is unhealthy, but nothing more. What is healthy will always win out, no dominator will ever manage to dominate completely. There is, by design, always a way for the prey to use intelligence to overcome the predator and nature shows that this will always manifest itself via evolution. This is what is happening to humans - morality is "real" per se because we make it real, but really what is immoral is simply what is self-destructive. Self-destructive things self-destruct, which is their nature. This is what is going to happen to the Illuminati, there is no way to prevent it. They know it.

So let's say you shift out of this reality, what happens to the reality you left behind, lets say some self destructive youth shifts us from this timeline, further into a negative reality, what happenes to you in that reality, do you pop out, disappear in a flash of light?

That version of you would remain in that reality, creating what it needs to and making mistakes that it needs to. Your conscious perception would merely shift to another version of you in another reality that makes better decisions. The past cannot literally be changed but it doesn't exist anyway - it's just a memory. It might exist in a spatial sense, but not a time sense.

If not then a version of yourself would be subjugated to the will of that persons reality creation, the only way in which this would not negate your freewill, is if some alternate version of yourself choose to incarnate into a destructive reality.

No, the version of you that remains in a negative reality is still creating his/her own reality. It's just another facet of conscious. Luckily that version of you is not the one you decide to locate your mind in.

mcthompson2x

05-09-2008, 10:29 PM

Bump

anonymousoneuk

07-09-2008, 05:45 PM

I think that both ideas can peacefully co-exist, but when you look at the big picture (as we look at the big picture in relation to the animal kingdom), there really is only cause and effect. When antibodies kill a virus, do we think it's immoral? Or when a virus kills a body, do we think the virus is immoral?

What if that virus is capable of thought processes that we cannot conceive of and does, in fact, exist in a conventional sense? If consciousness is non-local that it is perfectly plausible. Nature just does what nature does. Morality is our perspective on what is healthy and what is unhealthy, but nothing more. What is healthy will always win out, no dominator will ever manage to dominate completely. There is, by design, always a way for the prey to use intelligence to overcome the predator and nature shows that this will always manifest itself via evolution. This is what is happening to humans - morality is "real" per se because we make it real, but really what is immoral is simply what is self-destructive. Self-destructive things self-destruct, which is their nature. This is what is going to happen to the Illuminati, there is no way to prevent it. They know it.

That version of you would remain in that reality, creating what it needs to and making mistakes that it needs to. Your conscious perception would merely shift to another version of you in another reality that makes better decisions. The past cannot literally be changed but it doesn't exist anyway - it's just a memory. It might exist in a spatial sense, but not a time sense.

No, the version of you that remains in a negative reality is still creating his/her own reality. It's just another facet of conscious. Luckily that version of you is not the one you decide to locate your mind in.

Maybe...

Kind of unlucky for the version of yourself that doesn't get to shift out of other peoples negative realities though huh?

Maybe, got any tips on how we can shift our consciousness other realities?

Peace

mcthompson2x

07-09-2008, 05:58 PM

Maybe...

Kind of unlucky for the version of yourself that doesn't get to shift out of other peoples negative realities though huh?

Maybe, got any tips on how we can shift our consciousness other realities?

Peace

I don't think it's unlucky at all, that personality version of yourself still believes in that reality because that is what it is supposed to do. God is merely Creation experiencing and making literal everything. I think that Creation wanted to gain all knowledge, so it created every possible scenario - it created every possible reality first, based on every possible combination of rules imaginable. Our laws of reality exist because that's either the part of the universe we're in (probably) or the entire universe we're in (if there are multiple universes, which is probable but not necessarily true). So, you are experiencing every possible decision or choice or variable that could have ever happened to you. Your mind however, is lucky. While these other yous can experience things and learn from things, your mind is truly powerful because it is connected to your future mind or higher self. It can move around from experience to experience. You are working your way toward that mind, but paradoxically, you are also remembering yourself. The higher soul has multiple different bodies which are your past selves, future selves, present selves (maybe there are more people on this planet with the exact same higher soul as you - maybe these are soul mates). You are experiencing this life because you are simply at it, for whatever potential reason. Because you have free will, part of the experience of your soul is to live experiences that it needs to. So you simply direct yourself around through relevant and perceivable possibilities based on the destination of your mind. Because we are still at the very early stages of remembering how to become one with our source, or God, we can't remember how to navigate and control reality entirely. This is why we reincarnate over and over until we begin to learn how to stop reincarnating, which is what a lot of people are actually learning how to do as 2012 approaches.

Reality shifting is very fluid, unless we can learn to make it more obvious (I think that's also possible). For those who learn how to control reality by making either the conscious decision to do so with the literal belief that it can be done, they will be shown how to do it. It takes time and patience and most importantly, listening. I haven't learned how to do anything all that amazing yet, at least not when it concerns special effects. But mentally I am in a higher level of thinking than I ever believed was possible.

anonymousoneuk

07-09-2008, 07:19 PM

I don't think it's unlucky at all, that personality version of yourself still believes in that reality because that is what it is supposed to do. God is merely Creation experiencing and making literal everything. .

That is my understanding too.

However, while some higher form of youself knows that this would be the expression it is to take, i don't think that version of ourselve would be inclined to find it that fair, i personally don't want to be dragged into someone elses nightmare reality.

You can hope it's not going to be you or you can be absolutely confident it won't be you

I guess all there is left to do is assume that the system works and try to get as higher level of understanding of it as possible.

I think that Creation wanted to gain all knowledge, so it created every possible scenario - it created every possible reality first, based on every possible combination of rules imaginable. Our laws of reality exist because that's either the part of the universe we're in (probably) or the entire universe we're in (if there are multiple universes, which is probable but not necessarily true).

I think the exact same thing.

So, you are experiencing every possible decision or choice or variable that could have ever happened to you. Your mind however, is lucky. While these other yous can experience things and learn from things, your mind is truly powerful because it is connected to your future mind or higher self. It can move around from experience to experience. You are working your way toward that mind, but paradoxically, you are also remembering yourself. The higher soul has multiple different bodies which are your past selves, future selves, present selves (maybe there are more people on this planet with the exact same higher soul as you - maybe these are soul mates). You are experiencing this life because you are simply at it, for whatever potential reason. Because you have free will, part of the experience of your soul is to live experiences that it needs to.

Indeed, but it's apparent to me that myself in my present form, is not one and the same with my higherself, else i'm sure if i had control over my choices of circumstances they would be far different from the ones i'm presently facing.

I have simple desires for the world, the first being for the world to be well, the second for myself to feel well, as present the world does not appear to be well, nor do i feel that well generally.

The circumstances i face do not seem to be a result of total freewill as it would normally be termed, as i hardly had control of the actions of others, nor complete understanding of the consequences of my own actions.

I guess freewill would have to mean limitless will and i doubt that a possible achievement, i do suspect personalities become warped with no limits placed upon them.

What i want to know is, is if the desires i have for myself can be manifested, or if i am always going to be blocked by some higher form of myself.

It seems if my higher self truly has great levels of control over my incarnational experience, it's goal are far different from mine.

I'm quite sure, my perspective on the purpose of my existance and relation to my higherself is awry somehow, but i am frequnetly frustrated at not having any answers to my own questions.

So you simply direct yourself around through relevant and perceivable possibilities based on the destination of your mind. Because we are still at the very early stages of remembering how to become one with our source, or God, we can't remember how to navigate and control reality entirely. This is why we reincarnate over and over until we begin to learn how to stop reincarnating, which is what a lot of people are actually learning how to do as 2012 approaches.

What do you think happens in 2012?

Reality shifting is very fluid, unless we can learn to make it more obvious (I think that's also possible). For those who learn how to control reality by making either the conscious decision to do so with the literal belief that it can be done, they will be shown how to do it. It takes time and patience and most importantly, listening. I haven't learned how to do anything all that amazing yet, at least not when it concerns special effects. But mentally I am in a higher level of thinking than I ever believed was possible.

What has this higher level of thinking entailed for you?

What kind of thoughts should one have so that they may begin to access their innate power?

Can one try to get better life circumstances for themself?

What kind of control over our bodies, minds and realities can we ultimately achieve?

Peace

mcthompson2x

07-09-2008, 08:03 PM

Before I start, I just want to say that all of this is completely hypothetical... it's just the understanding of the potential reality we have right now. I freely admit that I could be wrong but I don't think that my thoughts have ever been so dynamic, spontaneous and "wise" (as in wisdom to myself) as they have since I started down this line of thinking. That's why I'm inclined to follow it.

That is my understanding too.

However, while some higher form of youself knows that this would be the expression it is to take, i don't think that version of ourselve would be inclined to find it that fair, i personally don't want to be dragged into someone elses nightmare reality.

Well the thing is, you're still thinking that one person has more power than another. That's simply not true. The problem with free will and destiny is that both can exist when people think it's impossible. Destiny is one path followed from beginning to end. Free will is the ability to choose between destinies. So there is a part of you that is going to be tortured, murdered, raped, etc. on some level of reality no matter what happens because the program is to play out every possible scenario. Luckily the program is completely just because we have the ability to switch between those existences to whatever existence we choose, and this ability is heightened when we begin to understand that the problem is not changing one reality, it's changing to another reality. When we understand that the problem is not what we thought it was, we can go about accurately solving that problem. The problem isn't fair as in what happens to the physical memory that exists of you in some part of time-space. That you does not exist. Your body literally doesn't have a soul. Your soul just inhabits the body. Your soul has a body, not the other way around. So those bodies "experience" but they are only lived if you choose to live them. You live in the reality that your soul needs to inhabit to teach you the lessons that you have, prior to your experiencing this incarnation of life, decided to experience.

You can hope it's not going to be you or you can be absolutely confident it won't be you

You don't have to hope, just be confident. If it is you, then you need to figure out how and why you got there and once you do that, you can figure out how to get out of there. You really choose what to experience, once you get more in touch and in communication with your subconscious, then you can know what's going to happen and guide what's going to happen. If you move your frame of reference to your soul instead of to your body, reality becomes a lot more manageable and a lot less frightening. Part of what is so frightening about reality is the illusion that it cannot be understood! When you can understand it, you have an awful lot less to fear.

I guess all there is left to do is assume that the system works and try to get as higher level of understanding of it as possible.

Don't assume anything! Try to determine if it is true, meditate, try to think outside of the box, look for synchronicities, etc... once you prove to yourself that there is a good enough reason to explore the idea, that's all that you need to do. Don't assume anything because assumptions will ALWAYS be proven false, no matter how logical they may sound. Reality is highly contradictory and paradoxical, and while that sounds confusing, once you open up to trying to understand the nature of those two ideas it's no longer all that hard to comprehend.

Indeed, but it's apparent to me that myself in my present form, is not one and the same with my higherself, else i'm sure if i had control over my choices of circumstances they would be far different from the ones i'm presently facing.

But you are where you are because the choices you have made brought you here, whether you can see it or not. I think that if you truly try to see, you will see. This is no reason to be frightened. By realizing where you have brought yourself, you can realize how to bring yourself out of there. Life is a dream, dreams are a reflection of your greater identity communicating to you. The dream is confusing because you don't remember all the rules of existence. "Dying" is just what happens before you wake up.

I have simple desires for the world, the first being for the world to be well, the second for myself to feel well, as present the world does not appear to be well, nor do i feel that well generally.

I would say that the way you feel inside about the world is what the world is projected as outside, or the reality that your soul takes your conscious mind to.

The circumstances i face do not seem to be a result of total freewill as it would normally be termed, as i hardly had control of the actions of others, nor complete understanding of the consequences of my own actions.
I guess freewill would have to mean limitless will and i doubt that a possible achievement, i do suspect personalities become warped with no limits placed upon them.

Perhaps your have a misunderstanding of free will - perhaps in some way, the choices you have made brought you exactly to where they would bring you, but you expected a different outcome and your sorrow is the result of your thinking that you must lower expectations about what you can achieve now. This is a design that is meant to trap you in the matrix. You can do whatever you want, just think it. Shift into whatever reality you want, but it only happens when you attempt to know how to do it - when you attempt to know, the knowledge will slowly be brought to you by your higher mind at a rate that your current frame of reference can process. You will begin to understand as you need to, and then when you do understand there will be no more questioning about whether or not it can be done because you will know that you are doing it. You do it unconsciously - tap into that unconscious. Merge it with the front of your mind. Once you know what your body is doing by raising your awareness, you will begin to know every subtle process of your mind, and once you find the process that you are looking for then there is no way to stop it from being done at will. This takes a lot of reflection and analyzation I bet. I think it is achievable.

What i want to know is, is if the desires i have for myself can be manifested, or if i am always going to be blocked by some higher form of myself.

You will only be blocked until you learn the lesson that must be learned. Often times the block will indicate that which you must explore if you wish to go further. Sometimes blocks will appear in the form of demons or things that scare you - if we are "fallen angels" (and I'm not a Christian, I just use the term conveniently) then we are afraid of that which is true because we rejected it at some point. The block is evidence of a former rejection of truth. We can break the barriers. This is why mysticism has been declared "sorcery" or described as negative or evil for the last few thousand years. There is obviously black magic, which is a lower form of base science that takes energy away from. This is just regressive. We ended up here because of our pursuit of darkness on a spiritual level. The point isn't to try to be "of the light" because you can't just do it - once we achieve balance, we can learn how to move on. Imbalance is a sign of immaturity. No one can live up to an imbalanced standard, and this is one of the greatest barriers keeping us from realizing our abilities.

It seems if my higher self truly has great levels of control over my incarnational experience, it's goal are far different from mine.

Most likely this is true, but that is because our greater minds can see far more than we can even conceive of.

I'm quite sure, my perspective on the purpose of my existance and relation to my higherself is awry somehow, but i am frequnetly frustrated at not having any answers to my own questions.

Stop looking for answers outside and start looking for them inside. Just ask your mind a question and listen for a response. Your subconscious communicates to you every day and you probably think it's just another random thought you have. Some of the thoughts you have are absolutely true - once you learn how to differentiate those thoughts from the static and the random clutter that is brought about by the typical drugging of us by the government, you will know what voice can teach you the things you are ready to know. I must stress that you have to be careful speaking with your mind, because you will get thoughts that sound like yours but which are not yours. Don't ever do anything that is negative or don't do anything to harm the universe. Remember that karma is real. You have someone looking out for you, and you will have a lot of conflicting thoughts at first as you try to sabotage yourself. The ego does not want to give up control.

What do you think happens in 2012?

I can't quite say, but something good is what I feel emotionally.

What has this higher level of thinking entailed for you?

Profound joy and happiness! Peace and understanding, loss of fear of death... many things. I feel like I am living in Final Fantasy or something.

What kind of thoughts should one have so that they may begin to access their innate power?

You already have the right thoughts, it's just that the wrong thoughts try to discredit them or drown them out. Ask your subconscious how to differentiate between clutter and knowledge... it's an inner process, it's different for everyone. Be positive, I guess, but that's a lazy comment. It's still completely true. Negative thoughts are lies and program traps.

Can one try to get better life circumstances for themself?

Trying is only half-doing! Just do it! You'll learn how to, if you truly wish to.

What kind of control over our bodies, minds and realities can we ultimately achieve?

100% absolute control.

Peace to you as well!