We're NOT 'all one' yet...

[21_12_2012]

A lot of members on this forum often talk about 'one-ness' and that we are 'all one'......David Icke also speaks of this, regarding his research.
People like Bill Hicks also have spoken about this.
The people who do speak about this are people who have been into other temporary 'states of awareness' on hallucinogenic drugs.

BUT.... these states of awareness are temporary, and even when a person is in this state, true oneness is not achieved, because it would mean that EVERYONE else on the planet would have to be in the same state (permanently) to achieve any kind of level of 'oneness' (and the DRUG level of oness is not a true oneness anyway)

So, the people who continually state "we are all one"...are actually coming from a fake viewpoint of drug-experienced one-ness.

True oneness would come when the actual DNA of every person on the planet has expanded from the current 2 strand DNA which we all have, into DNA which allows for multi-dimensional (multi-level) access

We may be 'all one' (consciousness) at a deeper level than this 'matrix' we live in.....BUT:-

As long as we are living in this matrix, at this level we call 'reality', with this current 2 strand DNA which we all have, then we are NOT all one.

We are 'locked into' this tiny frequency range on this level we call the matrix....

We are imprisoned (for want of a better word), and seperated from 'oneness'

Many authors write about the coming dimensional shift in 2012...a higher frequency which in turn will raise the vibrational rate of our solar system and the life contained within it.
Also, these authors write about our DNA becoming 12 strand DNA, enabling multi-dimensional access.
Now....this (to me) sounds more like 'one-ness' (or at least a level CLOSER to oneness)....or a chance to access the level of one-ness at a deeper level.

BUT....UNTIL THIS HAPPENS (DNA CHANGE)...then how can we 'all be one" ?

A lot of people on this forum constantly go on and on quoting "we are one"....."you are me and I am you"....etc. etc.
It's becoming tedious.
We CANNOT be one as long as we're trapped like we are....

Even the 100th monkey syndrome will not make us one-ness....it will not change our DNA.

SO..that's one point i wanted to get off my chest anyway...

ANOTHER POINT IS THIS:- THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG (??????????)

Some people on this forum continually state things like:-
"there is no right or wrong"
"if you think that is wrong then that becomes your reality"

Actually, from a moralistic point of view, there IS RIGHT and there IS WRONG.

An example is this:-
You drive your car down an empty street and you see a person who you do not like the look of...if you deliberately drove at that person and killed them, would that be the right thing to do or the wrong thing?

The answer is:- moralistically WRONG.
Therefore, you are IN THE WRONG to do that....
It does not matter whether you BELIEVE it is right or wrong, the truth is that it is still moralistically wrong...and that is what some people on this forum DO NOT wish to associate themselves with, but instead prefer to bang on about "if we believe it is wrong then it is wrong"

There are an infinite number of examples i could write that prove right and wrong exist, that was just one of them.

The same stuff can be said for 'creating our own realities'
Until this becomes 'part of our DNA' for us all to be able to create our own realities at any time, and be 100% successful with it, then this too cannot be 'true'...so why do people go on and on about it?

We would never be able to create our own realities in this level of the 'matrix' because for one, our morals and motives are not 100% pure, and many people's 'wishes' would interfere with other people's free-will.....
Many people's 'wishes' would also cause negative effects upon other people. All this would affect the COLLECTIVE level of it all.

There would have to be a MASSIVE cleansing process of every person (and a DNA upgrade) for people to TRULY become PURE creators of their own realities....yet...on this forum...we hear it mentioned in near-enough every other post we read.....WHY ???

[zircon]

It's an interesting thought and has been addressed by philosophers and religious leaders for so long. I don't have an answer but it seems to be that it is not collective social oneness that we should be looking for obviously, one that would be governed by laws as we know them (which after all were put in place to subdue rebellious humanity) or by any kind of slavish following of leaders or promises or deceit; but a deeper awareness (perhaps brought about - partially - by cognitive discovery, experience of what's happening around us in this infected world, sharing, our own suffering and karma too) and - I hope - by Earth's own natural balance, that will drive out the psychic infection herself; restoring balance from the bipolarity that started it. If it's an "occult" battle then I'd say that we might expect further intervention from the same forces leading to a show-down and perhaps total annihilation; if it depends on us then without a doubt we will need help from the living Earth, and i would say from the forces of planetary change. A polar shift or some such thing might also mean a shift in other planetary positions relative to us; this would change the nature of out magnetic environment (the moon for a start might lose some of her control - not a bad thing if you look at it from a certain perspective of what the moon does) and "life" would take on a different guise.

[bigus_dickus]

A lot of members on this forum often talk about 'one-ness' and that we are 'all one'......David Icke also speaks of this, regarding his research.
People like Bill Hicks also have spoken about this.
The people who do speak about this are people who have been into other temporary 'states of awareness' on hallucinogenic drugs.

not necessarily. plato was talking about it and later philosophers like plotinus. search plotinus if you haven't already, you will find it interesting. and these people were thinkers, not on drugs.

So, the people who continually state "we are all one"...are actually coming from a fake viewpoint of drug-experienced one-ness.

again, not necessarily. i haven't been taking any hallucinogenic drugs and i haven't experienced that "state of oneness". i don't have to, because i "think my way to it", i don't have to "see it to believe it", and i don't believe it, but i arrive there with simple thinking from various view points.

True oneness would come when the actual DNA of every person on the planet has expanded from the current 2 strand DNA which we all have, into DNA which allows for multi-dimensional (multi-level) access

We may be 'all one' (consciousness) at a deeper level than this 'matrix' we live in.....BUT:-

As long as we are living in this matrix, at this level we call 'reality', with this current 2 strand DNA which we all have, then we are NOT all one.

the point is, that we not being one, is realized to be one of the biggest illusions. it is reality as we all know, but thinking about it a little more and a closer observation of what and how it is, we understand that it is just an illusion made by our various beliefs.

to give a simple example of what 'oneness' means, you would not be you and you would not be here now, if literally everything hadn't happened the way they did. even the slightest thought that sparks in your mind is important, even the smallest detail has significance.
another example, is that today's science begins to understand the timeless nature of the human mind, meaning the thoughts and the reality they observe and create. this has been ancient knowledge, but it doesn't matter, most of us today are able to understand that time is an illusion connected to space and the relativity of body movements and that all there is is this moment, in which all dimensions are manifested. which also means that the highest dimension possible to contemplate, is a singularity and what comes next is nothingness.

'oneness' does not mean that you have to do anything about it. knowing about it, about what it really means, if you can resonate with what i wrote above, is your awareness of it. and since you are aware of it, you don't forget it. you don't have to do anything about it, because you are it. the same "i" that you are, the same "i" the universe and everything that exists is and you have been "i" always, you can do nothing about it, all you can do is forget it and pretend to be someone else. we are all doing that, that's what we are here for.

We are 'locked into' this tiny frequency range on this level we call the matrix....

We are imprisoned (for want of a better word), and seperated from 'oneness'

ok, let me unlock you. there you go, you are free now. what else do you need?

Many authors write about the coming dimensional shift in 2012...a higher frequency which in turn will raise the vibrational rate of our solar system and the life contained within it.
Also, these authors write about our DNA becoming 12 strand DNA, enabling multi-dimensional access.
Now....this (to me) sounds more like 'one-ness' (or at least a level CLOSER to oneness)....or a chance to access the level of one-ness at a deeper level.

BUT....UNTIL THIS HAPPENS (DNA CHANGE)...then how can we 'all be one" ?

A lot of people on this forum constantly go on and on quoting "we are one"....."you are me and I am you"....etc. etc.
It's becoming tedious.
We CANNOT be one as long as we're trapped like we are....

you are no longer trapped, because it is all in your mind. nothing exists outside of you. you don't have to wait until vibrations change, photon belts, solar eclipses, messiahs, aliens, humans or whatever. you are yours and you can do anything you want with you.

i can describe that situation like this: you are in a 1000hp race car, motor running, handbrake down, gear on, left foot on clutch, right foot on brakes, sound system on and ready, road clear and no fear.. and you are waiting for someone to come light your joint.

Even the 100th monkey syndrome will not make us one-ness....it will not change our DNA.

your dna is fine as it is! it works. put the pedal to the medal and let it do what it can do.

Actually, from a moralistic point of view, there IS RIGHT and there IS WRONG.

yes you are right! but a holistic point of view, also includes the moralistic and many others.

The same stuff can be said for 'creating our own realities'
Until this becomes 'part of our DNA' for us all to be able to create our own realities at any time, and be 100% successful with it, then this too cannot be 'true'...so why do people go on and on about it?

because we do create it nevertheless. this is what the manipulators are counting on, otherwise they would leave us alone and just go hunting.

We would never be able to create our own realities in this level of the 'matrix' because for one, our morals and motives are not 100% pure, and many people's 'wishes' would interfere with other people's free-will.....
Many people's 'wishes' would also cause negative effects upon other people. All this would affect the COLLECTIVE level of it all.

what is a 100% pure moral and motive?

what you say "Many people's 'wishes' would also cause negative effects upon other people."

do i have to tell you that this has already been happening for ages?

trust me, you don't need fear, fear needs you.

There would have to be a MASSIVE cleansing process of every person (and a DNA upgrade) for people to TRULY become PURE creators of their own realities....yet...on this forum...we hear it mentioned in near-enough every other post we read.....WHY ???

because to believe that you need a DNA upgrade in order to function, is another one of those 'false beliefs'. get rid of it and you will see why. all change comes from within, your original choice.

[21_12_2012]

I don't have an answer but it seems to be that it is not collective social oneness that we should be looking for obviously, one that would be governed by laws as we know them (which after all were put in place to subdue rebellious humanity) or by any kind of slavish following of leaders or promises or deceit; but a deeper awareness (perhaps brought about - partially - by cognitive discovery, experience of what's happening around us in this infected world, sharing, our own suffering and karma too)

I'd like to agree with that...but...when I look at the world in general, and see the amount of spiritual ignorance, and moralistic ignorance....it paints a grim picture for humanity (in my eyes anyway)
When I see people in towns/cities/on the street, what I see is mainly 'followers' and 'sheep'....and many of them are ignorant to their own selfish behaviours....many blindly do what others do.....many do not think for themselves....most live in fear of what other people might think of them if they dare to be 'different' or individual...
I see people drinking themselves into oblivion....then fighting....and doing/saying things they will regret....then blaming it on the drink and thinking it's OK to do that....they do it week after week...month after month...year after year....and many do it because OTHER PEOPLE do it...
It gets worse and worse every day, not better...young kids copying their parents who have drunk all their lives....setting bad examples.
How can this situation get any of us anywhere near one-ness ?

and - I hope - by Earth's own natural balance, that will drive out the psychic infection herself; restoring balance from the bipolarity that started it. If it's an "occult" battle then I'd say that we might expect further intervention from the same forces leading to a show-down and perhaps total annihilation; if it depends on us then without a doubt we will need help from the living Earth, and i would say from the forces of planetary change.

I would say without a doubt humanity needs BIG TIME help.
If, as is stated in many books, our DNA is going to have an 'upgrade', then i seriously doubt that everyone on the planet will be able to accomodate this change. It would probably rely upon how much negative energy is stored in peoples bodies at the time of change, as to whether that person 'makes it through' the change.
I mean...how many people do you know who are actually 'living their truths' ? ..with good morals/values and all the rest of it ?
It's not a big percentage of the population at all.
Even this '100th monkey syndrome' issue...i have seen it stated a few times in books, the figure of 144,000 (i also believe this figure has been stated in the bible somewhere but i am unsure of where)...
This figure of 144,000 is supposedly the amount of people necessary (who have become 'enlightened' and of pure mind/morals/values etc) needed for 'mass ascension' of the human race when it comes to the time of the change
Considering that this forum is supposed to contain (supposedly) some of the worlds most 'switched on' and 'awake' people....(around 4000-5000 members), then if you think about it, another 140 000 people would also be needed to reach this figure of 144,000...(i do not know if this will be the case, but i am using it as an example of just how small the percentage of 'awake' people are actualy in the world)
If it is the case that a dimensional shift will occur (2012 as has been stated by many people), then in my opinion, this is definately not enough time for enough of the population to become 'enlightened' and get us all through this.
I wish this wasn't the case, but look around you, you can see it everywhere...ignorance...people asleep and pre-occupied with superficial things...material things....media....tv....drink....drugs....anythin g but the truth.

A polar shift or some such thing might also mean a shift in other planetary positions relative to us; this would change the nature of out magnetic environment (the moon for a start might lose some of her control - not a bad thing if you look at it from a certain perspective of what the moon does) and "life" would take on a different guise

That could also be the case...if it is...then the world is in for BIG TIME upheavals...and....maybe....the people who do NOT become 'enlightened' enough before this time will be the people who will remain in the aftermath of the upheavals...probably still being controlled by the same forces that control us now...although i do not hope for that..but it does look (to me) like that could very well be the case.

Either way...humanity is as far from one-ness as it probably ever has been.
Also, as far from 'reality-creation' as we have probably ever been too.....otherwise we would be living in paradise....not prison.

[21_12_2012]

Thanks for the post Bigus.

not necessarily. plato was talking about it and later philosophers like plotinus. search plotinus if you haven't already, you will find it interesting. and these people were thinkers, not on drugs.

I agree these people were thinkers...but..we will never know for sure if some of their findings came from the use of drugs or not...i doubt they would be in a hurry to admit it if they were...but i see where you're coming from.

again, not necessarily. i haven't been taking any hallucinogenic drugs and i haven't experienced that "state of oneness". i don't have to, because i "think my way to it", i don't have to "see it to believe it", and i don't believe it, but i arrive there with simple thinking from various view points.

I have actually been at 'oneness' (the fake drug-induced oneness) MANY times (although i am not proud of it..)...I no longer use them..BUT...i do know it exists...HOWEVER...no matter how much i attempt to (as you say) 'think myself' to oneness, i cannot..I am locked into 2 strand DNA reality prison.

the point is, that we not being one, is realized to be one of the biggest illusions. it is reality as we all know, but thinking about it a little more and a closer observation of what and how it is, we understand that it is just an illusion made by our various beliefs.

It goes deeper than that...probably even beyond the collective belief level...for example...if THE most enlightened person on the earth was to try and (for example) make a mountain disappear, then it would not happen...so therefore he is not at true oneness, and cannot truly create his own reality (ie the reality of the mountain disappearing)

to give a simple example of what 'oneness' means, you would not be you and you would not be here now, if literally everything hadn't happened the way they did. even the slightest thought that sparks in your mind is important, even the smallest detail has significance.

But that isn't oneness, that is various actions culiminating into a result..even thoughts have to have some form of action behind them to manifest...they cannot just manifest (as would be the case with true oneness..pure heart/pure desire etc)

most of us today are able to understand that time is an illusion connected to space and the relativity of body movements and that all there is is this moment, in which all dimensions are manifested. which also means that the highest dimension possible to contemplate, is a singularity and what comes next is nothingness.

But we can only access this one dimension with our current DNA structure (apart from when we sleep and visit the astral and similar dimensions where thoughts become form..in which case, the DNA is being over-ridden in our sleep...something we cannot do in the waking state...)

'oneness' does not mean that you have to do anything about it. knowing about it, about what it really means, if you can resonate with what i wrote above, is your awareness of it. and since you are aware of it, you don't forget it. you don't have to do anything about it, because you are it.

I agree that we 'are it' but in this current dimension that we only have access to, how can we all be one....we are perceiving everything as seperate...and living our lives that way...it's like playing a playstation game..we cannot reprogram the game..it is just the game...with limits and rules that cannot be bent.

the same "i" that you are, the same "i" the universe and everything that exists is and you have been "i" always, you can do nothing about it, all you can do is forget it and pretend to be someone else. we are all doing that, that's what we are here for.

I agree, but even if we stop pretending to be this person who we really are not, we are still bound by the limits of this one dimension, and our access to it (by our limited 2 strand DNA)

ok, let me unlock you. there you go, you are free now. what else do you need?

If unlocking was that simple, none of us would even be on this forum...we would experiencing all there is to experience...and manifesting to our hearts desires !

you are no longer trapped, because it is all in your mind.

It is also hard-wired into our DNA

nothing exists outside of you.

If a guy comes over to me with a loaded gun...pulls the trigger and a bullet hits me and 'kills' me, then that surely did exist outside of the 'me' that is locked into this dimension (or WAS locked into this dimension before i died !)

you don't have to wait until vibrations change, photon belts, solar eclipses, messiahs, aliens, humans or whatever. you are yours and you can do anything you want with you.

Again, if it was that easy, EVERYONE would be manifesting their hearts desires constantly...and we would be living in BLISS (which is what i have experienced in the fake drug-induced oneness states i have been in)

i can describe that situation like this: you are in a 1000hp race car, motor running, handbrake down, gear on, left foot on clutch, right foot on brakes, sound system on and ready, road clear and no fear.. and you are waiting for someone to come light your joint.

Well, if that is the case, which i doubt, then I'm having trouble moving off...because i am bound by physical rules of this dimension...
Also, i gave the joints up with the rest of the stuff !

your dna is fine as it is! it works. put the pedal to the medal and let it do what it can do.

My DNA must be corrupted then.


because we do create it nevertheless. this is what the manipulators are counting on, otherwise they would leave us alone and just go hunting.

I am sure that if the controllers/manipulators could create their own realities and be at true oneness themselves, they would be creating far far much havoc on this earth right now that they currently are....or alternatively, if they could experience true oneness all the time, they would be living in 100% pure bliss, so why would they need to control or manipulate us at all?

what is a 100% pure moral and motive?

In my opinion it is pure, unselfish desires with positive beneifts for the person/persons, or some kind of benefit for mankind

what you say "Many people's 'wishes' would also cause negative effects upon other people."

do i have to tell you that this has already been happening for ages?

Yes, this has been happening for ages, but because of ACTIONS, not just pure reality creation...the manipulators have chosen to take negative action against humanity, which anyone can do..you or i could decide to take negative actions and carry them out upon people...but that isn't true reality creation, that is taking steps and action to get a result..true reality creation goes deeper than that, and thoughts become reality without steps needed

because to believe that you need a DNA upgrade in order to function, is another one of those 'false beliefs'. get rid of it and you will see why. all change comes from within, your original choice.


We will need a DNA upgrade to access other dimensions at will..and to experience oneness constantly if that's what we wish to do.
It's the same as wanting to jump over a sky scraper...we cannot and will not achieve it..because we are bound by the limits of our 2 strand DNA prison.

[21_12_2012]

Thanks for the post Bigus.

not necessarily. plato was talking about it and later philosophers like plotinus. search plotinus if you haven't already, you will find it interesting. and these people were thinkers, not on drugs.

I agree these people were thinkers...but..we will never know for sure if some of their findings came from the use of drugs or not...i doubt they would be in a hurry to admit it if they were...but i see where you're coming from.

[quoute]again, not necessarily. i haven't been taking any hallucinogenic drugs and i haven't experienced that "state of oneness". i don't have to, because i "think my way to it", i don't have to "see it to believe it", and i don't believe it, but i arrive there with simple thinking from various view points.[/quote]

I have actually been at 'oneness' (the fake drug-induced oneness) MANY times (although i am not proud of it..)...I no longer use them..BUT...i do know it exists...HOWEVER...no matter how much i attempt to (as you say) 'think myself' to oneness, i cannot..I am locked into 2 strand DNA reality prison.

the point is, that we not being one, is realized to be one of the biggest illusions. it is reality as we all know, but thinking about it a little more and a closer observation of what and how it is, we understand that it is just an illusion made by our various beliefs.

It goes deeper than that...probably even beyond the collective belief level...for example...if THE most enlightened person on the earth was to try and (for example) make a mountain disappear, then it would not happen...so therefore he is not at true oneness, and cannot truly create his own reality (ie the reality of the mountain disappearing)

to give a simple example of what 'oneness' means, you would not be you and you would not be here now, if literally everything hadn't happened the way they did. even the slightest thought that sparks in your mind is important, even the smallest detail has significance.

But that isn't oneness, that is various actions culiminating into a result..even thoughts have to have some form of action behind them to manifest...they cannot just manifest (as would be the case with true oneness..pure heart/pure desire etc)

most of us today are able to understand that time is an illusion connected to space and the relativity of body movements and that all there is is this moment, in which all dimensions are manifested. which also means that the highest dimension possible to contemplate, is a singularity and what comes next is nothingness.

But we can only access this one dimension with our current DNA structure (apart from when we sleep and visit the astral and similar dimensions where thoughts become form)

'oneness' does not mean that you have to do anything about it. knowing about it, about what it really means, if you can resonate with what i wrote above, is your awareness of it. and since you are aware of it, you don't forget it. you don't have to do anything about it, because you are it.

I agree that we 'are it' but in this current dimension that we only have access to, how can we all be one....we are perceiving everything as seperate...and living our lives that way...it's like playing a playstation game..we cannot reprogram the game..it is just the game...with limits and rules that cannot be bent.

the same "i" that you are, the same "i" the universe and everything that exists is and you have been "i" always, you can do nothing about it, all you can do is forget it and pretend to be someone else. we are all doing that, that's what we are here for.

I agree, but even if we stop pretending to be this person who we really are not, we are still bound by the limits of this one dimension, and our access to it (by our limited 2 strand DNA)

ok, let me unlock you. there you go, you are free now. what else do you need?

If unlocking was that simple, none of us would even be on this forum...we would experiencing all there is to experience...and manifesting to our hearts desires !

you are no longer trapped, because it is all in your mind.

It is also hard-wired into our DNA

nothing exists outside of you.

If a guy comes over to me with a loaded gun...pulls the trigger and a bullet hits me and 'kills' me, then that surely did exist outside of the 'me' that is locked into this dimension (or WAS locked into this dimension before i died !)

you don't have to wait until vibrations change, photon belts, solar eclipses, messiahs, aliens, humans or whatever. you are yours and you can do anything you want with you.

Again, if it was that easy, EVERYONE would be manifesting their hearts desires constantly...and we would be living in BLISS (which is what i have experienced in the fake drug-induced oneness states i have been in)

i can describe that situation like this: you are in a 1000hp race car, motor running, handbrake down, gear on, left foot on clutch, right foot on brakes, sound system on and ready, road clear and no fear.. and you are waiting for someone to come light your joint.

Well, if that is the case, which i doubt, then I'm having trouble moving off...because i am bound by physical rules of this dimension...
Also, i gave the joints up with the rest of the stuff !

your dna is fine as it is! it works. put the pedal to the medal and let it do what it can do.

My DNA must be corrupted then.


because we do create it nevertheless. this is what the manipulators are counting on, otherwise they would leave us alone and just go hunting.

I am sure that if the controllers/manipulators could create their own realities and be at true oneness themselves, they would be creating far far much havoc on this earth right now that they currently are....or alternatively, if they could experience true oneness all the time, they would be living in 100 pure bliss, so why would they need to control or manipulate us at all?

what is a 100% pure moral and motive?

In my opinion it is pure, unselfish desires with positive beneifts for the person/persons, or some kind of benefit for mankind

what you say "Many people's 'wishes' would also cause negative effects upon other people."

do i have to tell you that this has already been happening for ages?

Yes, this has been happening for ages, but because of ACTIONS, not just pure reality creation...the manipulators have chosen to take negative action against humanity, which anyone can do..you or i could decide to take negative actions and carry them out upon people...but that isn't true reality creation, that is taking steps and action to get a result..true reality creation goes deeper than that, and thoughts become reality without steps needed

because to believe that you need a DNA upgrade in order to function, is another one of those 'false beliefs'. get rid of it and you will see why. all change comes from within, your original choice.


We will need a DNA upgrade to access other dimensions at will..and to experience oneness constantly if that's what we wish to do.
It's the same as wanting to jump over a sky scraper...we cannot and will not achieve it..because we are bound by the limits of our 2 strand DNA prison.

[mada88]

If you believe in the big bang (I don't) then we where all one and then we where split up into little pieces. Though maybe thats what happened without the bang and all.

All matter is energy and everything is energy so we are all one.

[21_12_2012]

If you believe in the big bang (I don't) then we where all one and then we where split up into little pieces. Though maybe thats what happened without the bang and all.

All matter is energy and everything is energy so we are all one.

Like i said above...we may be all one at a VERY deep level (which we do not access in our 'daily lives')

You are not me...I am not you...we are individuals trapped within a biological computer (the body)....and that biological computer is trapped within a 3d reality (or matrix ).
You cannot influence me and I cannot influence you...you have free will and i have free will.
I cannot read your mind, neither can you read my mind.

So, like i said above, we certainly are not all one as long as we live in this 3d reality, and as long as we have limited access with our current 2 strand DNA.

[zircon]

I'd have to say I agree with your pessimism at the moment; the forces of matrix control in our reality are very real to us, because the energies that make it so are so strong. Either a global cataclysm, major re-orientation of the planets, or - perhaps as was done in times gone by - a blocking of those forces, (was it by magnifying earth energies, sound vibration? - I don't know for sure - or were those things used to increase the imprisonment?) but I don't really feel that a concerted spiritual willingness by even a very sizeable number of people would be enough, as when push comes to shove and food is scarce, humanity will be even easier to dominate. This is because in our modern times (the last 4 or 5 thousand years at least I suspect) the global forces of control have gained in their ability to organise and to remove our proximity to nature and to each other. People wouldn't have any means for organisation and communication. The illuminati (or whatever the hidden forces manifest as) are working on that premise, in fact they have reorganised the economic system to ensure we remain naked. And that is why they are speeding things up, and removing even recently-fought dignity and empowerment again, since it has had its usefulness in spreading technological needs. The route to our future empowerment and development might be in using those technologies differently; more pessimistically through the cycle of reincarnation in the "future"; in this time I'm hoping that planetary forces are on our side to break through and reveal truths more dramatically to the ones who are brainwashed. The moon cycles tend to make that difficult as they dominate so much of what manifests.

[zircon]

Of course - if you go along with what some have been saying - if the moon can be "shut down" (as might in fact be intended??) then humanity might suddenly break through and the division be repaired. I'll have to think more about that! Remember the moon is the "reflection" of the sun.... but its energies are quite obviously different and for a reason....

[21_12_2012]

I'd have to say I agree with your pessimism at the moment; the forces of matrix control in our reality are very real to us, because the energies that make it so are so strong. Either a global cataclysm, major re-orientation of the planets, or - perhaps as was done in times gone by - a blocking of those forces, (was it by magnifying earth energies, sound vibration? - I don't know for sure - or were those things used to increase the imprisonment?) but I don't really feel that a concerted spiritual willingness by even a very sizeable number of people would be enough, as when push comes to shove and food is scarce, humanity will be even easier to dominate. This is because in our modern times (the last 4 or 5 thousand years at least I suspect) the global forces of control have gained in their ability to organise and to remove our proximity to nature and to each other. People wouldn't have any means for organisation and communication. The illuminati (or whatever the hidden forces manifest as) are working on that premise, in fact they have reorganised the economic system to ensure we remain naked. And that is why they are speeding things up, and removing even recently-fought dignity and empowerment again, since it has had its usefulness in spreading technological needs. The route to our future empowerment and development might be in using those technologies differently; more pessimistically through the cycle of reincarnation in the "future"; in this time I'm hoping that planetary forces are on our side to break through and reveal truths more dramatically to the ones who are brainwashed. The moon cycles tend to make that difficult as they dominate so much of what manifests.

It is looking grim isn't it...but...i do not tend to dwell on the grimness....i try to think positively...even though i see the negativity every day, and the sleeping masses.
Maybe, if Icke is right about the 100th monkey syndrome bringing down 'the house of cards', maybe there is hope...maybe enough people will wake up and pass on enough knowledge (consciously or unconsciously) for the world to change...i like to think so...but it is hard to think like that with the constant reminders of just how asleep most of the world is.
I have been into Icke's material for around 8 years now...and interested in the occult since the 1980s, yet i still find myself 'sleeping' now and again, so i don't know how the 'masses' who do not know any of this stuff will go on...it takes years to start waking up and becoming free from the control...we don't have that much time left by the looks of things....
But maybe we do..hopefully we do...

[bigus_dickus]

I agree these people were thinkers...but..we will never know for sure if some of their findings came from the use of drugs or not...i doubt they would be in a hurry to admit it if they were...but i see where you're coming from.

well, what use could it be to think that all the philosophers eastern and western were on drugs when they made their philosophies?

maybe they were, but does that mean that everything they wrote is bullshit?

you know, from one point of view, yes, everything is bullshit i have to agree, but whatever it is it means something.. we are discussing it, so it must mean something.

I have actually been at 'oneness' (the fake drug-induced oneness) MANY times (although i am not proud of it..)...I no longer use them..BUT...i do know it exists...HOWEVER...no matter how much i attempt to (as you say) 'think myself' to oneness, i cannot..I am locked into 2 strand DNA reality prison.

well, i was talking about philosophy and theory and an awareness of our connection to everything in the world. but, i might be talking about something different than what you mean, because i said that you can't get there, you are there already, it's just hidden from our perception.

i don't know how to explain this.. it is like we don't understand how we affect each other and everything around us with our behavior. we believe some things are "not a big deal" and we make a "big deal" of other things, however sometimes those little things are the most important in our lives.

you are not locked in a 2 strand DNA, we all have 2 strand DNA, we are all completely unique, yet we all share the same structure, we all have 2 eyes, 2 feet, 2 hands. this must be a belief of yours that i understand and respect, but it is not necessarily the truth. that you are "trapped" i mean..

It goes deeper than that...probably even beyond the collective belief level...for example...if THE most enlightened person on the earth was to try and (for example) make a mountain disappear, then it would not happen...so therefore he is not at true oneness, and cannot truly create his own reality (ie the reality of the mountain disappearing)

why would an enlightened person do that? that's the last thing someone would do, if they were “enlightened”. can't you see the implications of this? if someone did that, it would be a mere demonstration of power, to make you overwhelmed and maybe scared and maybe to make you have someone to put your hopes and dreams on. so there goes your freedom...

it's not about magic and supernatural powers and manipulation of reality. we are human beings, we don't move mountains like that.

if you think that "oneness" is going to provide you with magic powers and make you, or anyone a super hero, you are missing the point and i guess i am failing to explain it how i intended.

But that isn't oneness, that is various actions culiminating into a result..even thoughts have to have some form of action behind them to manifest...they cannot just manifest (as would be the case with true oneness..pure heart/pure desire etc)

'oneness' is a huge field of action! do you see anything standing still? is there any part inside your body right now that is still?

do you know that "stillness" is an illusion? you are never still, you are constantly moving. even when you're just sittin there you are moving, the earth is not still, it spins and changes position in relationship with other bodies, much as we do.

the only thing that you are "still" in relationship with is space.

in relationship with space, every thing is completely still. space isn't going anywhere. one body in empty space doesn't go anywhere. there's nowhere to go. we desire to go somewhere, we will it, it becomes thought, then action, we separate I and this (universe) and create movement and action. it comes with a desire, a will and a thought.

But we can only access this one dimension with our current DNA structure (apart from when we sleep and visit the astral and similar dimensions where thoughts become form)

our mind is timeless, our thoughts are timeless and spaceless. our conscious mind creates an illusion of a linear time line and gets feedback from the timeless unconscious. but the unconscious, functions like a tape recorder. it records everything, even things that you are not aware of, from every possible perspective.

would you like to have full access to the unconscious? if you did, do you understand, that a 'wrong' conscious thought of yours would be enough to stop your heart or someone else's heart?

I agree that we 'are it' but in this current dimension that we only have access to, how can we all be one....we are perceiving everything as seperate...and living our lives that way...it's like playing a playstation game..we cannot reprogram the game..it is just the game...with limits and rules that cannot be bent.

we won't do it like that. that's a "new age" belief, to make you want to try to achieve something that you can't. it doesn't work that way, we will have to drop all beliefs, almost everything we think we know, just to only begin to perceive it. that's why you perceive it with clearing your mind or with drugs, because thoughts of beliefs don't pop up and distract you, you are free during this time.

well, if you are free in sleep and meditation, you can be free in wake time. piece a cake my friend. those beliefs are what holds us back and our attachment to them and to the past.

If unlocking was that simple, none of us would even be on this forum...we would experiencing all there is to experience...and manifesting to our hearts desires !

i happen to like this forum and the people in it. it's a wonderful experience, part of all there is to experience. you are experiencing all there is to experience, one moment at a time.

what does your heart desire that you can't experience?

It is also hard-wired into our DNA

that's a belief. i don't believe that. it could be, but i don't think so.

there are 2 views that exist in our world. the one is the "positive" and the other is the "negative".

positive: everything is in a 'higher' order. we are the creators of our reality and the power of our mind.

negative: it is a mechanical universe, where everything works like robots and we are the victims of imprisonment in it.

these both are belief systems. all theories and philosophies come from them. The first I call “esoteric” and the second “exoteric”. The first is “the fundamental I”, the common ground of all consciousness, the second is “everything apart from I”.

so if you believe the second case, that's your reality. if you believe the first, that's your reality. and people who come from both of these belief systems and world views are in a constant quarrel.

so there you have a dilemma. which one do you identify with? do you have to identify with a belief? do you have to belong to a group?

well, you don't have to. you don't have to believe any of that.

If a guy comes over to me with a loaded gun...pulls the trigger and a bullet hits me and 'kills' me, then that surely did exist outside of the 'me' that is locked into this dimension (or WAS locked into this dimension before i died !)

that's just another way to see things. it's not necessarily like that. and it's not “not like” that either.
if you said that to a tibetan buddhist for example, he would tell you that yes you are locked and you are holding the key.

what is "common knowledge" to you, is quite different to the "common knowledge" of some other people. again, it is about what you believe. so you behave according to your beliefs. we all do.

Again, if it was that easy, EVERYONE would be manifesting their hearts desires constantly...and we would be living in BLISS (which is what i have experienced in the fake drug-induced oneness states i have been in)

why would we want to do that?

I am sure that if the controllers/manipulators could create their own realities and be at true oneness themselves, they would be creating far far much havoc on this earth right now that they currently are....or alternatively, if they could experience true oneness all the time, they would be living in 100 pure bliss, so why would they need to control or manipulate us at all?

sure. maybe they can't? or, they just want to manifest that havoc.

who says that you have to be in 'bliss' all the time. that's boring!

In my opinion it is pure, unselfish desires with positive beneifts for the person/persons, or some kind of benefit for mankind

unconditional love. i like, that's what the human heart is capable of, our biggest potential.

so, is there anyone that you hate? how do you feel about your self?

Yes, this has been happening for ages, but because of ACTIONS, not just pure reality creation...the manipulators have chosen to take negative action against humanity, which anyone can do..you or i could decide to take negative actions and carry them out upon people...but that isn't true reality creation, that is taking steps and action to get a result..true reality creation goes deeper than that, and thoughts become reality without steps needed

the "manipulators" did nothing but influence us to do what they told us and we believed them. they never put their asses on the front line, they got brainwashed brothers of ours to do that.

and if we believe what they say, we help to create the reality they want.

we are doing it... we have a choice and we make it. and we always have good reasons.

there's an ancient greek saying that goes "no evil is independent of good".

We will need a DNA upgrade to access other dimensions at will..and to experience oneness constantly if that's what we wish to do.
It's the same as wanting to jump over a sky scraper...we cannot and will not achieve it..because we are bound by the limits of our 2 strand DNA prison.

my DNA, i am using it, i don't want someone mess with it, thanks, but no thanks! :)

[21_12_2012]

well, what use could it be to think that all the philosophers eastern and western were on drugs when they made their philosophies?

maybe they were, but does that mean that everything they wrote is bullshit?

Not bullshit, but also not relevant to our normal, waking, 3d, DNA reality experience.

you know, from one point of view, yes, everything is bullshit i have to agree, but whatever it is it means something.. we are discussing it, so it must mean something.

It is relevant i agree, but only as information as to what is deeper than we can currently access in this reality we are locked into.

well, i was talking about philosophy and theory and an awareness of our connection to everything in the world. but, i might be talking about something different than what you mean, because i said that you can't get there, you are there already, it's just hidden from our perception.

That's exactly my point...whoever created us into this most recent human form has genetically manipulated the DNA so we cannot access these oneness levels, and true reality creation levels.
Even science has concluded that 90% of DNA is unexplainable...this must be what has been taken away from us and made 'useless' so we are more slave-like for the manipulators. Michael Tsarion speaks a lot about this in his lectrues too.

i don't know how to explain this.. it is like we don't understand how we affect each other and everything around us with our behavior. we believe some things are "not a big deal" and we make a "big deal" of other things, however sometimes those little things are the most important in our lives.

I agree, we do create on subtle levels regarding maybe subconscious thoughts/beliefs...but on a conscious level there is power missing.

you are not locked in a 2 strand DNA, we all have 2 strand DNA, we are all completely unique, yet we all share the same structure, we all have 2 eyes, 2 feet, 2 hands. this must be a belief of yours that i understand and respect, but it is not necessarily the truth. that you are "trapped" i mean..

Well, i think if we weren't 'trapped' in this DNA prison, the sky would be the limit regarding creating and being at oneness all the time..but from what i can see, not even the most enlightened tibetan monks are at oneness all the time, or true creation level...so in my eyes, theres something amiss in our DNA.

why would an enlightened person do that? that's the last thing someone would do, if they were “enlightened”. can't you see the implications of this? if someone did that, it would be a mere demonstration of power, to make you overwhelmed and maybe scared and maybe to make you have someone to put your hopes and dreams on. so there goes your freedom...

I only used the disappearing mountain as an example...another example could be:- levitating over buildings.....walking through solid objects like walls...solving starvation and water shortages...curing cancer or other life-threatening diseases by will power...
I can't see any of this happening in our current reality....curing diseases is one thing im sure we would all be doing if it was possible....

it's not about magic and supernatural powers and manipulation of reality. we are human beings, we don't move mountains like that.

but what i am saying is that it would be about magic/supernatural powers if we did have access to these levels of oneness..the sky would be the limit.

if you think that "oneness" is going to provide you with magic powers and make you, or anyone a super hero, you are missing the point and i guess i am failing to explain it how i intended.

Why would it not provide these powers? The sky would be the limit if we could access the levels that we cannot currently access.

'oneness' is a huge field of action! do you see anything standing still? is there any part inside your body right now that is still?

do you know that "stillness" is an illusion? you are never still, you are constantly moving. even when you're just sittin there you are moving, the earth is not still, it spins and changes position in relationship with other bodies, much as we do.

I've been at oneness many times, as have other people such as Icke, and it is actually still. Also time does not exist. Infinite love (oneness) is the only truth, everything else is illusion...not stillness..that is oneness.
Anything that vibrates isn't oneness.

the only thing that you are "still" in relationship with is space.

in relationship with space, every thing is completely still. space isn't going anywhere. one body in empty space doesn't go anywhere. there's nowhere to go. we desire to go somewhere, we will it, it becomes thought, then action, we separate I and this (universe) and create movement and action. it comes with a desire, a will and a thought.

Space is continually expanding, as are the bodies within it, which are continually moving their positions.

our mind is timeless, our thoughts are timeless and spaceless. our conscious mind creates an illusion of a linear time line and gets feedback from the timeless unconscious. but the unconscious, functions like a tape recorder. it records everything, even things that you are not aware of, from every possible perspective.

I know, and agree with that about the subconscious mind

would you like to have full access to the unconscious? if you did, do you understand, that a 'wrong' conscious thought of yours would be enough to stop your heart or someone else's heart?

I dont think anybody would know if it would be dangerous or not to have full control over the subconscious, because nobody (from what i know) has had this power. Maybe this power will be ours when eventually our DNA expands.

we won't do it like that. that's a "new age" belief, to make you want to try to achieve something that you can't. it doesn't work that way, we will have to drop all beliefs, almost everything we think we know, just to only begin to perceive it. that's why you perceive it with clearing your mind or with drugs, because thoughts of beliefs don't pop up and distract you, you are free during this time.

Many good books are available (mainly channeled) about the subject of the coming shift and DNA upgrades. Authors such as:- Barbara Hand Clow, Amorah Quan Yin, Barbara Marciniak...all these refer to the current changing vibration which is increasing right now, and increasing the vibrational rate of our bodies and altering our DNA.
As you state, regarding "dropping all beliefs"...i don't know anyone who can come anywhere close to 'dropping all beliefs"...because, beliefs/morals/ideas/thoughts etc make us who we are....if we got rid of all that, we would be nothing, and most beliefs would not be able to be changed..such as the belief that if we jump off a building we will die...or the belief that we cannot walk through solid objects...or the belief that we cannot fly...the list is endless...and even if we could change those beliefs, would it make it possible to walk through solid objects? No...not in this current 3d reality we are locked into with our DNA.

well, if you are free in sleep and meditation, you can be free in wake time. piece a cake my friend. those beliefs are what holds us back and our attachment to them and to the past.

The reason we can achieve such things in sleep is because the DNA has been over-riden, and the conscious mind shut down...this does not happen in waking life...not in this current DNA prison we are locked into.

i happen to like this forum and the people in it. it's a wonderful experience, part of all there is to experience. you are experiencing all there is to experience, one moment at a time.

I like it too, but i bet if everyone on here could manifest EVERYTHING they ever wanted, and were at true oneness all the time, there wouldn't be many people left on here seeking out 'the truths' like there is now...

what does your heart desire that you can't experience?

Abundance in all areas of my life:- physical, spiritual, mental, social, love, wealth, the best material items, the best foods, the best people around me..

there are 2 views that exist in our world. the one is the "positive" and the other is the "negative".

positive: everything is in a 'higher' order. we are the creators of our reality and the power of our mind.

negative: it is a mechanical universe, where everything works like robots and we are the victims of imprisonment in it.

these both are belief systems. all theories and philosophies come from them. The first I call “esoteric” and the second “exoteric”. The first is “the fundamental I”, the common ground of all consciousness, the second is “everything apart from I”.

so if you believe the second case, that's your reality. if you believe the first, that's your reality. and people who come from both of these belief systems and world views are in a constant quarrel.

There is a lot of emphasis on belief here...it doesnt matter how much i believe that i am not locked into this 3d DNA prison, this tiny frequency range..it will not change...i will still continue to be locked into it whether i believe it or not...thats the way the manipulators have got us.

so there you have a dilemma. which one do you identify with? do you have to identify with a belief? do you have to belong to a group?

well, you don't have to. you don't have to believe any of that.

You are correct, we do not have to identify with any of it...but..it still doesnt change the fact that we are trapped in a 2 strand DNA prison.

that's just another way to see things. it's not necessarily like that. and it's not “not like” that either.
if you said that to a tibetan buddhist for example, he would tell you that yes you are locked and you are holding the key.

Well, if the tibetan monks supposedly hold the key, then why havent they (or anyone else who claims to hold the key) solved world hunger, world disease, shortages, poverty, misery, war...etc etc...?

what is "common knowledge" to you, is quite different to the "common knowledge" of some other people. again, it is about what you believe. so you behave according to your beliefs. we all do.

It doesnt matter how much i believe i can do or cant do certain things..there are rules within this 3d reality that beliefs cannot break through.

why would we want to do that?

If you or i were manipulators and we were at true oneness and had true creative abilities, we would not be spending time trying to enslave the population ! We would be living in bliss...creating whatever we wanted.

sure. maybe they can't? or, they just want to manifest that havoc.

who says that you have to be in 'bliss' all the time. that's boring!

Like i said above...also..i have been to 'bliss' and that'll do for me thank you !

so, is there anyone that you hate? how do you feel about your self?

I dont hate anyone, i dislike certain people but not full on hatred no..and i've never felt better about myself..what about you?

the "manipulators" did nothing but influence us to do what they told us and we believed them. they never put their asses on the front line, they got brainwashed brothers of ours to do that.

Thats right, so they mustnt have true creative power either...or be at true oneness level.

and if we believe what they say, we help to create the reality they want.

Not just that, if we ACT how they say...its not just about belief...for example, if they told us we can all levitate over tall buildings, and we all believed it, would we actually be able to do it?...or what about if they told us we can all walk through solid objects and we all believed it, would that alter the rules of this current 3d DNA reality?

my DNA, i am using it, i don't want someone mess with it, thanks, but no thanks! :)

I would like the full 12 strand DNA back please !

[james777]

Genesis 11

The Tower of Babel

1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.

6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.

I'm not sure, but, it seems to me as we were purposely divided from oneness! Perhaps that was when the 'first' shift took place, again, I don't know. Possibly our oneness would have caused us more problems (in this realm) than our division. Either way we can only accept what reality we have and choose to make the 'right' choices based on the moral structure we accommodate. Just because there is division and real seperation among us, does not mean we shouldn't strive to work together. No one really knows what's going to happen next, so everything else is just speculation. It's our beliefs that drive us.

[zircon]

I was reading your conversation, which is very interesting, and I'm just wondering if there's something to do with cycles of consciousness and of progressive change in the numbers of reincarnating individuals, that could be missing from the discussion. About developing from cellular to mammalian, tribal, individual consciousness. The relevance of the Kali cycle, or maybe something in the Mayan calendar.. don't know; things that have entered consciousness at diffferent periods and changed our perception of our place in reality, and relationship with the infinite. The tension in the bi-polarity is more and more extreme (all recent history leading up to human development of atomic energy, pressure on the planet by people, population connected to the "present") I'm sure that this awareness is being pushed under by certain occult forces, but it is also breaking out too.

[21_12_2012]

Genesis 11

The Tower of Babel

1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.

6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.

I'm not sure, but, it seems to me as we were purposely divided from oneness! Perhaps that was when the 'first' shift took place, again, I don't know. Possibly our oneness would have caused us more problems (in this realm) than our division. Either way we can only accept what reality we have and choose to make the 'right' choices based on the moral structure we accommodate. Just because there is division and real seperation among us, does not mean we shouldn't strive to work together. No one really knows what's going to happen next, so everything else is just speculation. It's our beliefs that drive us.

I agree, we should strive to work together...and i wish there could be more awake people...maybe it is the area i live in, because round here it's like zombie city most days !
And they speak in confused tongues !

[21_12_2012]

I was reading your conversation, which is very interesting, and I'm just wondering if there's something to do with cycles of consciousness and of progressive change in the numbers of reincarnating individuals, that could be missing from the discussion. About developing from cellular to mammalian, tribal, individual consciousness. The relevance of the Kali cycle, or maybe something in the Mayan calendar.. don't know; things that have entered consciousness at diffferent periods and changed our perception of our place in reality, and relationship with the infinite. The tension in the bi-polarity is more and more extreme (all recent history leading up to human development of atomic energy, pressure on the planet by people, population connected to the "present") I'm sure that this awareness is being pushed under by certain occult forces, but it is also breaking out too.

I definately agree about the evolution (cycles) of consciousness.
Have you watched any Ian Lungold videos? He explains about the evolution of consciousness very well, and we are supposedly heading for many quick successions of evolution between now and 2012.
Also, yes, reincarnation and the number of current reincarnating souls is interesting too, although i do not know much about the reasons behind it.
The Mayan calendar must be connected with it all as well. Some people often suspect that the Mayan end-date is just a date and nothing more...some people relate the date to illuminati-control, but i myself do not think that...i doubt illuminati control was around in the times when the calendar was created, so it must be a relevant date for our time.

Also yes, i agree, all this is being pushed under by occult forces somehow, and is breaking through in places...it's one big mass of confusion on certain levels.
It's no wonder we are so far from oneness.

[zircon]

Yes I've looked into his work, about the mind only being able to cope with so much information, about needing to leave the mind behind, the orientation of consciousness, and how what Icke calls the matrix being the limitation of the mind, we being locked into it because we "switch off" into unconsciousness and just depend on all that's set up around us as the result of bollions of years. And denial and planetary suicide being the outcome. "Knowing" or intuition being a personal power. Very interesting, positive, solid - and he's hilarious too!
I'll watch those again. Highly recommendable!

[bigus_dickus]

That's exactly my point...whoever created us into this most recent human form has genetically manipulated the DNA so we cannot access these oneness levels, and true reality creation levels.
Even science has concluded that 90% of DNA is unexplainable...this must be what has been taken away from us and made 'useless' so we are more slave-like for the manipulators. Michael Tsarion speaks a lot about this in his lectrues too.

maybe this is so, but do you see where all this comes from?

there are things that we take for granted and by doing so, we are not capable to perceive or comprehend things that are different, or different perspectives.

so even, if an alien scrambled our DNA some thousands years ago, to keep us herded, what can we now do about it?

isn't that the same alien who provided us with this knowledge, so we are now aware of it? or are these different aliens?

I agree, we do create on subtle levels regarding maybe subconscious thoughts/beliefs...but on a conscious level there is power missing.

yes, because the conscious level works on a subconscious background and we don't easily understand that.

Well, i think if we weren't 'trapped' in this DNA prison, the sky would be the limit regarding creating and being at oneness all the time..but from what i can see, not even the most enlightened tibetan monks are at oneness all the time, or true creation level...so in my eyes, theres something amiss in our DNA.

well, i think that if you didn't believe that you are 'trapped' in a DNA prison, the sky would represent no limit, because you would be unlimited.

I only used the disappearing mountain as an example...another example could be:- levitating over buildings.....walking through solid objects like walls...solving starvation and water shortages...curing cancer or other life-threatening diseases by will power...
I can't see any of this happening in our current reality....curing diseases is one thing im sure we would all be doing if it was possible....

all these are tricks, mental tricks, distraction methods, illusions and lies, that some people believe as 'magic'. it's all bogus.

will power can only cure yourself. you can reprogram you not to be ill. i can program your mind to believe whatever i want if i hypnotize you, i can make you see me as a reptilian. all this stuff is in your mind. there is no supernatural magic here, these are superstitions and archetypes from old times.

but what i am saying is that it would be about magic/supernatural powers if we did have access to these levels of oneness..the sky would be the limit.

or i can make an illusion for you that there are magic and supernatural powers for you to be after, and manipulate you to do anything i want.

it has nothing to do with magic. it's advanced 'alien' science. we, as humans, are not capable to handle our 'earth' science, we are that stupid, do you think we can handle that?

Why would it not provide these powers? The sky would be the limit if we could access the levels that we cannot currently access.

well, because they don't exist maybe?

I've been at oneness many times, as have other people such as Icke, and it is actually still. Also time does not exist. Infinite love (oneness) is the only truth, everything else is illusion...not stillness..that is oneness.
Anything that vibrates isn't oneness.

that's right, you've been into the "void".

imagine that you are an object in space. you only know that you are on object in space, when you are moving in relationship to another object in space, like watching your own reflection. your movement is only an illusion depending on your observation of a separate object, which is also an illusion. when you project your awareness to space, then all objects contained in existence are still.

does it make any sense?

Space is continually expanding, as are the bodies within it, which are continually moving their positions.

space, does not. celestial bodies in it drift apart, but space stays where it is and it always have and will be.

I dont think anybody would know if it would be dangerous or not to have full control over the subconscious, because nobody (from what i know) has had this power. Maybe this power will be ours when eventually our DNA expands.

maybe... if it expands...

Many good books are available (mainly channeled) about the subject of the coming shift and DNA upgrades. Authors such as:- Barbara Hand Clow, Amorah Quan Yin, Barbara Marciniak...all these refer to the current changing vibration which is increasing right now, and increasing the vibrational rate of our bodies and altering our DNA.

i have read those books. again, they are based on ancient myths, such that of enki and enlil, the "eternal twins", who made some experiments on our planet. one of them pretended to be a "god" many times and made alterations to our biology.

and there you have the bloodlines, the illuminati, the religions, the systems and blah blah.

so, what now?

As you state, regarding "dropping all beliefs"...i don't know anyone who can come anywhere close to 'dropping all beliefs"...because, beliefs/morals/ideas/thoughts etc make us who we are....if we got rid of all that, we would be nothing, and most beliefs would not be able to be changed..such as the belief that if we jump off a building we will die...or the belief that we cannot walk through solid objects...or the belief that we cannot fly...the list is endless...and even if we could change those beliefs, would it make it possible to walk through solid objects? No...not in this current 3d reality we are locked into with our DNA.

i know one. an "enlightened one". his name was nikos kazatzakis, a great writer and poet.
in his grave, there is a label that says:

"i don't hope for anything, i am not afraid of anything, i am free"

this guy, managed to have himself excommunicated from the greek orthodox church because of his writings.

Nikos Kazantzakis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The reason we can achieve such things in sleep is because the DNA has been over-riden, and the conscious mind shut down...this does not happen in waking life...not in this current DNA prison we are locked into.

so, the only way for you to be free is to have your DNA upgrade.

I like it too, but i bet if everyone on here could manifest EVERYTHING they ever wanted, and were at true oneness all the time, there wouldn't be many people left on here seeking out 'the truths' like there is now...

what if i could manifest the instant destruction of everything and did it, because i didn't like it? that would be a real enough oneness, no?

Abundance in all areas of my life:- physical, spiritual, mental, social, love, wealth, the best material items, the best foods, the best people around me..

good. so what makes you believe that there is lack of those?

There is a lot of emphasis on belief here...it doesnt matter how much i believe that i am not locked into this 3d DNA prison, this tiny frequency range..it will not change...i will still continue to be locked into it whether i believe it or not...thats the way the manipulators have got us.

so, what do you have to say to the manipulators?

Well, if the tibetan monks supposedly hold the key, then why havent they (or anyone else who claims to hold the key) solved world hunger, world disease, shortages, poverty, misery, war...etc etc...?

what makes you think that they can? or that they are allowed to do that?

If you or i were manipulators and we were at true oneness and had true creative abilities, we would not be spending time trying to enslave the population ! We would be living in bliss...creating whatever we wanted.

and we would be doing that by ...manipulating other beings with free will. do you see the difference and why we are not manipulators? we are at true oneness though, because there can't be manipulators if there aren't beings with free will. can you see the oneness? the significance? can you spot the duality and self definition of each belief by its opposite?

Like i said above...also..i have been to 'bliss' and that'll do for me thank you !

yeah, me too. for how long do you think?

I dont hate anyone, i dislike certain people but not full on hatred no..and i've never felt better about myself..what about you?

the same as you :)

Thats right, so they mustnt have true creative power either...or be at true oneness level.

so who has it? and who is?

Not just that, if we ACT how they say...its not just about belief...for example, if they told us we can all levitate over tall buildings, and we all believed it, would we actually be able to do it?...or what about if they told us we can all walk through solid objects and we all believed it, would that alter the rules of this current 3d DNA reality?

yes, it is the same thing, read what i wrote above.

someone can make you believe that he has wings and he flies and you will see him do that, someone can make you believe that he made a mountain disappear and you will believe it is magic, when it is all in your mind.

it's all there. you can have any illusion you want, because it is available.

I would like the full 12 strand DNA back please !

are you waiting in line, or do you have a v.i.p pass? :)

[21_12_2012]

so even, if an alien scrambled our DNA some thousands years ago, to keep us herded, what can we now do about it?

We don't have to do anything except go with the flow of the higher vibrations which are currently coming into our solar system, apparently altering our bodies and our DNA.

isn't that the same alien who provided us with this knowledge, so we are now aware of it? or are these different aliens?

It could well be, then again it could not.

yes, because the conscious level works on a subconscious background and we don't easily understand that.

But it doesn't matter about the subconcious because it is conscious creation we are concerned with, which involves more power which we do not possess (yet)

well, i think that if you didn't believe that you are 'trapped' in a DNA prison, the sky would represent no limit, because you would be unlimited.

If that was the case, then there should be plenty of people with unlimited powers (due to their 'free minds') and these people would be curing diseases and making the world into a paradise..performing public miracles for all to see how anything is possible..i haven't seen any of this...have you?

all these are tricks, mental tricks, distraction methods, illusions and lies, that some people believe as 'magic'. it's all bogus.

How could it be bogus, if, as you say, we are capable of anything, then surely someone would be capable of showing us some kind of 'extra-ordinary' feat, such as walking through a solid object...levitating...curing diseases ...if it's all just down to belief then why does none of this happen?

will power can only cure yourself.

Why only yourself? Why not others? If its down to simple belief then surely anyone could be cureable?

you can reprogram you not to be ill. i can program your mind to believe whatever i want if i hypnotize you, i can make you see me as a reptilian. all this stuff is in your mind. there is no supernatural magic here, these are superstitions and archetypes from old times.

Not all people are 'hypnotiseable'..and the ones who are, does that make them able to walk through solid objects? Levitate? Cure diseases? Create world peace? Manifest food for the hungry?
If so, then why are the hypnotists not making this happen for us?

or i can make an illusion for you that there are magic and supernatural powers for you to be after, and manipulate you to do anything i want.

As i said above, could you manipulate me to walk through a wall? Levitate? etc?

it has nothing to do with magic. it's advanced 'alien' science. we, as humans, are not capable to handle our 'earth' science, we are that stupid, do you think we can handle that?

Again, if all it depends upon is belief, like people keep saying, then surely people would be proving this..yet..they're not.

well, because they don't exist maybe?

So, you say that these magical powers do not exist, that means that the power of belief will not allow a person to walk through a wall then?
So, what limits are there? How far does this so-called belief thing let us go?


that's right, you've been into the "void".

It's oneness (or as close to oneness as a human can get)..and it didnt vibrate..everything was still..and time did not exist.

imagine that you are an object in space. you only know that you are on object in space, when you are moving in relationship to another object in space, like watching your own reflection. your movement is only an illusion depending on your observation of a separate object, which is also an illusion. when you project your awareness to space, then all objects contained in existence are still.

How can anything we perceive as being 'solid' be an illusion? If a bullet came at you and entered your body, thats as real and solid as you can get..because you are trapped in a 3d solid reality...and your 3d solid body will feel and react to the so-called illusory bullet and be damaged by it...belief or no belief.

does it make any sense?

What makes sense to me is that no matter what we believe...we are in a solid world (even though it is an illusion at deeper levels) as long as we are trapped within this current DNA reality, it is solid, and its far from an illusion when that bullet hits...or when you try to walk through a solid wall...and its as far from oneness as we can be..and theres no getting away from it.

space, does not. celestial bodies in it drift apart, but space stays where it is and it always have and will be.

I think you'll find that space is expanding, and always has been, since it was 'created'

i have read those books. again, they are based on ancient myths, such that of enki and enlil, the "eternal twins", who made some experiments on our planet. one of them pretended to be a "god" many times and made alterations to our biology.

I dont think you have read the books that i am referring to...namely:-
Barbara Hand Clow-The Pleiadian Agenda....Barbara Marciniak-Bringers of the Dawn...& Earth the Living Library...Amorah Quan Yin-The Pleiadian Workbook...&...Pleiadian perspectives.
There are constant references to the coming galactic changes and the increased vibrations and DNA changes which are affecting peoples minds and bodies.

i know one. an "enlightened one". his name was nikos kazatzakis, a great writer and poet.
in his grave, there is a label that says:

"i don't hope for anything, i am not afraid of anything, i am free"

this guy, managed to have himself excommunicated from the greek orthodox church because of his writings.

OK, supposing he did manage to get rid of all his belief systems...that's one person out of 6 billion...and did he actually manage to walk through walls or cure any serious illnesses, or be at permanent oneness ?

so, the only way for you to be free is to have your DNA upgrade.

Not being free, being closer to oneness and able to actually create and manifest, maybe yes..but definately not in this 3d DNA prison.

what if i could manifest the instant destruction of everything and did it, because i didn't like it? that would be a real enough oneness, no?

It wouldnt happen, because true oneness would require pure intent, and thats malicious intent...low vibration....and that is one reason explained in many of the books i have named above, why our bodies are currently changing to a higher vibratory level, in order to be able to manifest and have purer intent.

good. so what makes you believe that there is lack of those?

It's not a belief, its a fact..i am lacking in those things..

so, what do you have to say to the manipulators?

I dont understand what youre getting at here..do you mean what would i say to them if i could speak to them?

what makes you think that they can? or that they are allowed to do that?

Well, it would be obviously a person like a tibetan monk (or their level of spirituality) that would 'hold the key', and tibetan monks actually meditate for the sake of mankind..so youd think that if they possessed so-called power (using belief and oneness) that they would have solved the worlds problems by now..and be levitating all over the place...but they havent..nobody has.
Whether theyre 'allowed to' or not wouldnt make a difference..they would do it anyway, because it is for the benefit of mankind to solve the current problems..starvation...illnesses...torture..etc etc...makes sense to me anyway.

and we would be doing that by ...manipulating other beings with free will. do you see the difference and why we are not manipulators? we are at true oneness though, because there can't be manipulators if there aren't beings with free will. can you see the oneness? the significance? can you spot the duality and self definition of each belief by its opposite?

No, all i can see is a solid 3d world in which we are trapped. True oneness doesnt vibrate..it is still..time does not exist..yet..when i look at my clock in this room it ticks..the sun rises..the moon comes up..they move through the sky..therefore we aren't in oneness..its that simple.

yeah, me too. for how long do you think? time wouldnt exist, so 'how long' wouldnt come into it !

the same as you :)

Glad to hear it !

so who has it? and who is?

I have no idea who is at true oneness and the true power of creating.

yes, it is the same thing, read what i wrote above.

someone can make you believe that he has wings and he flies and you will see him do that, someone can make you believe that he made a mountain disappear and you will believe it is magic, when it is all in your mind.

But it isnt just in our minds...it is in our DNA, which imprisons us...it doesnt matter who tries to make the whole population believe that it can walk through a solid wall....the fact is that we live in a 3d world, and there are rules to it that no amount of believe on earth can change. It is still energy..condensed to a low vibration..and its still solid to us..belief wont change it.

it's all there. you can have any illusion you want, because it is available.

Then why hasn't someone yet come up with the illusion that all diseases are cured and all war has ended..and peace on earth forever?

are you waiting in line, or do you have a v.i.p pass? :)

DNA changes are happening right now, its up to us whether we can go with the flow of the changes and allow our bodies to adapt to the physical and mental and spiritual changes which are bombarding earth right now...its one reason the illuminati are panicking, and the constant warnings to 'keep away from the sun', when in reality sunshine is assisting us to change faster.
High vibrational photons.

[bigus_dickus]

But it doesn't matter about the subconcious because it is conscious creation we are concerned with, which involves more power which we do not possess (yet)

yet, the belief that conscious creation involves more power (of what kind?) resides in the subconscious.

If that was the case, then there should be plenty of people with unlimited powers (due to their 'free minds') and these people would be curing diseases and making the world into a paradise..performing public miracles for all to see how anything is possible..i haven't seen any of this...have you?

public miracles. like david copperfield? yes, i've seen him!

as for curing diseases, how does someone cures you from a disease that you keep creating?

How could it be bogus, if, as you say, we are capable of anything, then surely someone would be capable of showing us some kind of 'extra-ordinary' feat, such as walking through a solid object...levitating...curing diseases ...if it's all just down to belief then why does none of this happen?

well, isn't it extra-ordinary and amazing enough that this moment, there are huge generators and transmitters working, that keep electrons oscillating in wires, creating electric energy that powers up electronic devices through which we can communicate? what would be extraordinary for you? what would you think if you saw someone disappear in front of you?

Why only yourself? Why not others? If its down to simple belief then surely anyone could be cureable?

because you can't intervene to anyone's will without their permission and that will is what you have to control in order to cure them. to be a real healer is a very responsible job.

Not all people are 'hypnotiseable'..and the ones who are, does that make them able to walk through solid objects? Levitate? Cure diseases? Create world peace? Manifest food for the hungry?
If so, then why are the hypnotists not making this happen for us?

who says they are not? but, they have different intentions than yours.

As i said above, could you manipulate me to walk through a wall? Levitate? etc?

you mean enclose you in an em field and change your molecular structure?

it is possible and it has been done. but it's against the universal laws. either we all do it, or no one. no more jesuses in this era.

So, you say that these magical powers do not exist, that means that the power of belief will not allow a person to walk through a wall then?
So, what limits are there? How far does this so-called belief thing let us go?

as long as the collective belief that you are part of, says that you can't, you can't. if you believe in magic, you can practice it. it's illusion though and if you don't accept proper responsibilities, you are banging your head on the wall.

It's oneness (or as close to oneness as a human can get)..and it didnt vibrate..everything was still..and time did not exist.

well, that's the idea...

How can anything we perceive as being 'solid' be an illusion? If a bullet came at you and entered your body, thats as real and solid as you can get..because you are trapped in a 3d solid reality...and your 3d solid body will feel and react to the so-called illusory bullet and be damaged by it...belief or no belief.

ok.

do you know that you can blow your head off with air, that is not solid?

do you know that you can be squashed by outside pressure in a non-ordinary environment, by "non-solid" reasons?

do you know that you can blast by inward pressure if there's sudden unbalance with the outer, by "non-solid" reasons?

define solid.

do you know that you consist of 80% of water? how solid is that?

do you know that when you are talking on your cell phone, the voice that you hear and your own voice, get decoded and encoded to a signal that goes all the way through your solid head and your solid walls?

do you know that at this moment you are reading this, you are being penetrated by millions of 'cosmic' particles and energy that is way out of your perception?

as long as there is a wall there, the wall will be a wall.

What makes sense to me is that no matter what we believe...we are in a solid world (even though it is an illusion at deeper levels) as long as we are trapped within this current DNA reality, it is solid, and its far from an illusion when that bullet hits...or when you try to walk through a solid wall...and its as far from oneness as we can be..and theres no getting away from it.

do you ever consider, that talking about our solar system, is talking about the sun? or if we are not, then we are talking about the 0,0001% of what there is if we take the sun out?

define solid! :)

I dont think you have read the books that i am referring to...namely:-
Barbara Hand Clow-The Pleiadian Agenda....Barbara Marciniak-Bringers of the Dawn...& Earth the Living Library...Amorah Quan Yin-The Pleiadian Workbook...&...Pleiadian perspectives.
There are constant references to the coming galactic changes and the increased vibrations and DNA changes which are affecting peoples minds and bodies.

i have read marciniak's books and i don't remember the others, but i have read other relevant stuff.

you know, there's also controversy about this. there are people who claim that certain centers are trying to manipulate the public to create an 11-strand DNA and that 12-strand gets developed with certain techniques that you can learn and of course pay them to learn them. :rolleyes:

and that the 11-strand creates a reptilian-friendly hybrid, ready to be inhabited?

you can find anything you want, as long as you keep digging. i am telling you, it will never be enough.

It wouldnt happen, because true oneness would require pure intent, and thats malicious intent...low vibration....and that is one reason explained in many of the books i have named above, why our bodies are currently changing to a higher vibratory level, in order to be able to manifest and have purer intent.

ok, if this happens, i am there with you ...i guess. but again it has nothing to do with 'oneness', but with another illusion.

It's not a belief, its a fact..i am lacking in those things..

it's a fact then. but it's an illusion that you need something first in order not to be lacking.

I dont understand what youre getting at here..do you mean what would i say to them if i could speak to them?

if you could respond to their manipulations and their suggestions.

Well, it would be obviously a person like a tibetan monk (or their level of spirituality) that would 'hold the key', and tibetan monks actually meditate for the sake of mankind..so youd think that if they possessed so-called power (using belief and oneness) that they would have solved the worlds problems by now..and be levitating all over the place...but they havent..nobody has.
Whether theyre 'allowed to' or not wouldnt make a difference..they would do it anyway, because it is for the benefit of mankind to solve the current problems..starvation...illnesses...torture..etc etc...makes sense to me anyway.

this has to do with focusing on the collective consciousness and helping mankind from the "inside" of things. levitating and throwing darts to the moon will accomplish nothing.


No, all i can see is a solid 3d world in which we are trapped. True oneness doesnt vibrate..it is still..time does not exist..yet..when i look at my clock in this room it ticks..the sun rises..the moon comes up..they move through the sky..therefore we aren't in oneness..its that simple.

well, if you say so, then you aren't. just don't box me in though..

I have no idea who is at true oneness and the true power of creating.

do you have an idea of who you are?

[21_12_2012]

yet, the belief that conscious creation involves more power (of what kind?) resides in the subconscious.

Or is it the DNA, which enables us to access more information and deeper levels?

public miracles. like david copperfield? yes, i've seen him!

No, those are tricks, not actual 'superhuman' feats.

as for curing diseases, how does someone cures you from a disease that you keep creating?

So, when an African kid is injected with the aids virus, he is knowingly creating that disease?

well, isn't it extra-ordinary and amazing enough that this moment, there are huge generators and transmitters working, that keep electrons oscillating in wires, creating electric energy that powers up electronic devices through which we can communicate?

Not really extra-ordinary no.

what would be extraordinary for you? what would you think if you saw someone disappear in front of you?

I have already said what i would like to see (which still has not happened)
If i saw someone disappear in front of me, then yes, i would start to change my mind about the so-called oneness we are supposed to have access to, and true reality creation.

because you can't intervene to anyone's will without their permission and that will is what you have to control in order to cure them. to be a real healer is a very responsible job.

So that's like saying "nobody with AIDS wants to be cured, therefore the people who have the (so-called) power to cure them will not cure them"

who says they are not? but, they have different intentions than yours.

Even the greatest hypnotists state that only a percentage of the population is 'hypnotiseable'. It's a fact.

you mean enclose you in an em field and change your molecular structure?

it is possible and it has been done. but it's against the universal laws. either we all do it, or no one. no more jesuses in this era.

I mean by any means whatsoever. And if it does depend on universal laws (either we all do it or no one) then how come certain people claim to be able to achieve miraculous things by belief/reality creation (such as becoming super-rich and abundant) yet the rest of us dont?

as long as the collective belief that you are part of, says that you can't, you can't. if you believe in magic, you can practice it. it's illusion though and if you don't accept proper responsibilities, you are banging your head on the wall.

Surely, if what you say is correct, either we can all be successful at magic, or no one can.
And how can it be illusion at this 3d 'solid' level of reality in which we are all trapped?

do you know that you can blow your head off with air, that is not solid?

Yes, i do know.
Air is made of atoms though, the same as a wall is made of atoms..and in this 3d reality, atoms have laws.

do you know that you can be squashed by outside pressure in a non-ordinary environment, by "non-solid" reasons?

Again, atomic changes...solid to us in this 3d prison.

do you know that you can blast by inward pressure if there's sudden unbalance with the outer, by "non-solid" reasons?

Same as above.

define solid.

Same as above..atoms..which interact in a perceivably solid manner to us in this 3d prison.

do you know that you consist of 80% of water? how solid is that?

Same as above..atoms..interacting..in this 3d solid prison.

do you know that when you are talking on your cell phone, the voice that you hear and your own voice, get decoded and encoded to a signal that goes all the way through your solid head and your solid walls?

Radio waves...electrons...it's all measurable within this 3d prison.

do you know that at this moment you are reading this, you are being penetrated by millions of 'cosmic' particles and energy that is way out of your perception?

Yes, and i know that our bodies will feel solid until we actually break out of this 3d prison.

as long as there is a wall there, there will be a wall.

Well..yes.

do you ever consider, that talking about our solar system, is talking about the sun? or if we are not, then we are talking about the 0,0001% of what there is if we take the sun out?

Yes...and did you know that no matter how hard you change your beliefs...solid will still be solid...in this 3d prison?

define solid! :)

See above :)

i have read marciniak's books and i don't remember the others, but i have read other relevant stuff.

you know, there's also controversy about this. there are people who claim that certain centers are trying to manipulate the public to create an 11-strand DNA and that 12-strand gets developed with certain techniques that you can learn and of course pay them to learn them. :rolleyes:

and that the 11-strand creates a reptilian-friendly hybrid, ready to be inhabited?

you can find anything you want, as long as you keep digging. i am telling you, it will never be enough.

Maybe the 11 strand theory is correct, maybe it is disinfo...but the emphasis is upon the human race (or those capable of handling the change) becoming 12 strand..it is mentioned in many different books by many people.

ok, if this happens, i am there with you ...i guess. but again it has nothing to do with 'oneness', but with another illusion.

It would be a LOT closer to oneness than this 3d solid prison...it would be a much higher-vibratory reality....with much more 'processing power' and more access to information...but yes..it would also be illusion (at the deepest level)

it's a fact then. but it's an illusion that you need something first in order not to be lacking.

Not necessarily...for example...if you had no water to drink, would it be an illusion that you are lacking in water and need some to survive? Or would that be a solid, verifyable fact of life that you needed that water to continue to survive?

if you could respond to their manipulations and their suggestions.

There isn't much to say...the damage is already done..and what could i say to them to alter anything?

this has to do with focusing on the collective consciousness and helping mankind from the "inside" of things. levitating and throwing darts to the moon will accomplish nothing.

But curing terminal diseases en-masse would accomplish a lot..and creating enough food for the world would accomplish something too.

well, if you say so, then you aren't. just don't box me in though..

I do say so..and i'm not boxing anybody in..i'm just stating the truth.

do you have an idea of who you are?

Yes...a soul, trapped within a biological computer which is trapped within a 3d solid world, as far from oneness as it gets....the same as you...and the same as everybody else on the planet.

[bigus_dickus]

Or is it the DNA, which enables us to access more information and deeper levels?

i don't know. it could be, it's possible, but it's not the only thing we should cling to.

No, those are tricks, not actual 'superhuman' feats.

how do you distinguish?

So, when an African kid is injected with the aids virus, he is knowingly creating that disease?

not the kid, but someone is knowingly creating it.

Not really extra-ordinary no.

it depends on your perception. to people who have never lived with electricity (and there are lots living like that in our earth in 2007), all this would be seen as "magic".

I have already said what i would like to see (which still has not happened)
If i saw someone disappear in front of me, then yes, i would start to change my mind about the so-called oneness we are supposed to have access to, and true reality creation.

so, you can be easily manipulated by magic and smoke and mirrors like most people.. or not. but it would be easier for you to be manipulated than for someone who is aware of what's behind it. and it would be easier to someone who would just believe anything without question.

So that's like saying "nobody with AIDS wants to be cured, therefore the people who have the (so-called) power to cure them will not cure them"

they do want to be cured, and this desire gets exploited by the pharmaceutical industries to make themselves fortunes. not all people who believe that have AIDS and treated as such, really have AIDS. but they all die as if they did have it eventually... AIDS, among many others, is one of the biggest scams.

Even the greatest hypnotists state that only a percentage of the population is 'hypnotiseable'. It's a fact.

i agree, i was just stating that mass hypnotism is already occurring through various media and much of it results to beliefs and programmed behavior.
"PRS".

I mean by any means whatsoever. And if it does depend on universal laws (either we all do it or no one) then how come certain people claim to be able to achieve miraculous things by belief/reality creation (such as becoming super-rich and abundant) yet the rest of us dont?

don't believe the hype! it will all come clear (not in this thread though and not now)

Surely, if what you say is correct, either we can all be successful at magic, or no one can.
And how can it be illusion at this 3d 'solid' level of reality in which we are all trapped?

illusion doesn't mean that it is void, but it is to believe something to be different than what actually is.

Yes, i do know.
Air is made of atoms though, the same as a wall is made of atoms..and in this 3d reality, atoms have laws.

oh, so you mean 'solid' because of the presence of atoms in what we call matter? then define 'non solid'! we're not getting anywhere with this as you will see...

Again, atomic changes...solid to us in this 3d prison.

so, everything is solid? is there anything that is not solid?

Same as above..atoms..which interact in a perceivably solid manner to us in this 3d prison.

Same as above..atoms..interacting..in this 3d solid prison.

yeah, it's a machine..

Yes, and i know that our bodies will feel solid until we actually break out of this 3d prison.

and then what?

Yes...and did you know that no matter how hard you change your beliefs...solid will still be solid...in this 3d prison?

no, it's like: as long as you are holding on to a 'solid' belief, any other belief that contradicts it, is going to create problems.

Maybe the 11 strand theory is correct, maybe it is disinfo...but the emphasis is upon the human race (or those capable of handling the change) becoming 12 strand..it is mentioned in many different books by many people.

i have read many books. i can't say i believe all that i have read... they can make you crazy. (which means unable to function as a human being among human beings)

It would be a LOT closer to oneness than this 3d solid prison...it would be a much higher-vibratory reality....with much more 'processing power' and more access to information...but yes..it would also be illusion (at the deepest level)

a higher vibrating reality, with you vibrating higher in it, is the same "solid" as the 3d reality you are experiencing right now as "prison".

Not necessarily...for example...if you had no water to drink, would it be an illusion that you are lacking in water and need some to survive? Or would that be a solid, verifyable fact of life that you needed that water to continue to survive?

if... then yes. it would be a very much real situation. however you were talking about values and not 'solid' lack if i remember correctly.

There isn't much to say...the damage is already done..and what could i say to them to alter anything?

you can say "i don't believe your lies" for starters.

But curing terminal diseases en-masse would accomplish a lot..and creating enough food for the world would accomplish something too.

first, we would have to kick some guys off the planet...

Yes...a soul, trapped within a biological computer which is trapped within a 3d solid world, as far from oneness as it gets....the same as you...and the same as everybody else on the planet.

you know, from a point of view, i like this way of thinking, which means that you are not 'asleep', but it's not the whole truth and neither is what i say.

i know that this is a possibility, but i don't hold it as a firm belief. i have had that belief when i was younger, but i didn't even know that it was just a belief. well, it's just that... a belief. and it is real and true when you have it, because you are hard-wired with it in your mind.. if you understand how the mind works, you may want to reconsider.

however i am not going to convince you and i don't want to. it seems to me that you are on the right track and i am enjoying the conversation.

[21_12_2012]

i don't know. it could be, it's possible, but it's not the only thing we should cling to.

I agree. And i also believe that "becoming aware' of the manipulation helps to free our subconscious and conscious minds, allowing them to perform more efficiently, powerfully, and probably more controllably. But, whether that will allow us access to true reality creation and oneness, i guess we will never know...due to the fact that so many people have so many implanted beliefs within them, it would take a lifetime to remove them.

how do you distinguish?

A trick can be explained by rules of this 3d solid reality.
Example:- A magician uses sleight of hand to conceal an object, but makes out to the audience that he made it disappear, when in 'reality' it did not...it was just concealed from view at a fast speed that our eyes cannot detect.

A real feat would actually be making that object disappear without using sleight of hand.
Or making one 'solid' object enter another. (like a person entering a brick wall)
Those, in my opinion, would be real feats.

not the kid, but someone is knowingly creating it.

Yes, someone is knowingly creating it, but that doesn't alter the fact that the kid thinks it is being immunised against hepatitus B (or whatever lie has been told to the kid or its parents) so therefore(if people possess powers that could cure people) the kid should be 'curable' as he is not creating the disease himself.

it depends on your perception. to people who have never lived with electricity (and there are lots living like that in our earth in 2007), all this would be seen as "magic".

It would from one perspective..but if you introduced the laws of physics to those people, it would no longer be seen as 'magic'
Unlike a person walking through a brick wall, which goes against all laws of physics within this 3d reality.

so, you can be easily manipulated by magic and smoke and mirrors like most people.. or not. but it would be easier for you to be manipulated than for someone who is aware of what's behind it. and it would be easier to someone who would just believe anything without question.

If i saw someone walk through a wall in front of my eyes (for example a friend of mine who i knew to be a 'real' person), then i would not be being manipulated by any smoke or mirrors...and i would then think that such 'feats' were possible.

So, there would be no question of whether i was more 'manipulable' (is that the right word?) than someone who is aware of what's behind it, because it would be a genuine 'feat' which goes against all laws of this 3d reality.

It also wouldnt matter if someone who 'believes things without question' saw the same feat, because the feat goes against all laws of this 3d reality, and therefore that person would not be classed as 'gullible', he would have seen a genuine feat..

they do want to be cured, and this desire gets exploited by the pharmaceutical industries to make themselves fortunes. not all people who believe that have AIDS and treated as such, really have AIDS. but they all die as if they did have it eventually... AIDS, among many others, is one of the biggest scams.

But even so, the actual unknowing victims would still suffer from the disease, and would want to be cured even though they arent aware of what is wrong with them.

i agree, i was just stating that mass hypnotism is already occurring through various media and much of it results to beliefs and programmed behavior.
"PRS".

I agree, but not everybody is affected by mass hypnotism..especially the ones aware of it.

don't believe the hype! it will all come clear (not in this thread though and not now)

I await that time with anticipation !

illusion doesn't mean that it is void, but it is to believe something to be different than what actually is.

But our reality is real...to us..at this 3d level...so its not illusion...unless you look at it from the point of oneness....which we are not at.

oh, so you mean 'solid' because of the presence of atoms in what we call matter? then define 'non solid'! we're not getting anywhere with this as you will see...

Non solid = the absence of atoms

so, everything is solid? is there anything that is not solid?

Empty space..or absence of atoms.

and then what?

And then, hopefully (according to many authors) we shall have access to less dense realities (illusions from a oneness point of view)..higher vibrational realities.

no, it's like: as long as you are holding on to a 'solid' belief, any other belief that contradicts it, is going to create problems.

It wouldn't matter how much i changed my belief, and on how many levels, as deep as i could go...i would still perceive solid objects as being solid.
Unless of course my DNA (and everyone elses probably) was changed (expanded) to incorporate a wider range of 'realities' and experiences...then maybe what we perceive as now being solid, would actually not 'feel solid'

i have read many books. i can't say i believe all that i have read... they can make you crazy. (which means unable to function as a human being among human beings)

Crazy to some i suppose, but who is to say that some channeled material is not factual ?

a higher vibrating reality, with you vibrating higher in it, is the same "solid" as the 3d reality you are experiencing right now as "prison".

Not necessarily...an expanded DNA system could (and probably would) incorporate an expanded perception of levels of realities (dimensions), in which case some things would appear to be solid but not 'feel' solid due to our higher vibrational bodies.

if... then yes. it would be a very much real situation. however you were talking about values and not 'solid' lack if i remember correctly.

One such need (value) would be our need to evolve spiritually....if we do not continue to evolve we would feel we are 'lacking' in the "spiritual department".

you can say "i don't believe your lies" for starters.

I doubt i would say anything..because it couldnt change anything...saying to them "i dont believe your lies" wouldnt have any affect upon them, or make them lie less.

first, we would have to kick some guys off the planet...

Maybe...or render their powers ineffective somehow.

you know, from a point of view, i like this way of thinking, which means that you are not 'asleep', but it's not the whole truth and neither is what i say.

You too..and i agree, the whole truth is well beyond any of our comprehension at this stage of our 'evolution'

i know that this is a possibility, but i don't hold it as a firm belief. i have had that belief when i was younger, but i didn't even know that it was just a belief. well, it's just that... a belief. and it is real and true when you have it, because you are hard-wired with it in your mind.. if you understand how the mind works, you may want to reconsider.

I do think about this daily...but the more i think, the more it appears that we are trapped within this 3d DNA realm...which is one reason i decided to start this thread to see what other people thought.

however i am not going to convince you and i don't want to. it seems to me that you are on the right track and i am enjoying the conversation.


I am enjoying it too. Things like this make good discussion topics, and different viewpoints are a good thing.

[mada88]

Like i said above...we may be all one at a VERY deep level (which we do not access in our 'daily lives')

You are not me...I am not you...we are individuals trapped within a biological computer (the body)....and that biological computer is trapped within a 3d reality (or matrix ).
You cannot influence me and I cannot influence you...you have free will and i have free will.
I cannot read your mind, neither can you read my mind.

So, like i said above, we certainly are not all one as long as we live in this 3d reality, and as long as we have limited access with our current 2 strand DNA.

Free will! the consciouss mind has no free will! so we don't have any free will and why would you want choice?

[bigus_dickus]

I agree. And i also believe that "becoming aware' of the manipulation helps to free our subconscious and conscious minds, allowing them to perform more efficiently, powerfully, and probably more controllably. But, whether that will allow us access to true reality creation and oneness, i guess we will never know...due to the fact that so many people have so many implanted beliefs within them, it would take a lifetime to remove them.

maybe even more lifetimes, but it is also a choice. we too have beliefs to remove, because if we didn't we would be efficient, powerful, creative and all that. and we are not.. is it because we are just waiting until we gain some power from the universe?

A trick can be explained by rules of this 3d solid reality.
Example:- A magician uses sleight of hand to conceal an object, but makes out to the audience that he made it disappear, when in 'reality' it did not...it was just concealed from view at a fast speed that our eyes cannot detect.

A real feat would actually be making that object disappear without using sleight of hand.
Or making one 'solid' object enter another. (like a person entering a brick wall)
Those, in my opinion, would be real feats.

my point is that the second case, is a first case of a 'higher' dimension.

to give you an example, watch this:
Dr Quantum - Flatland - YouTube

what you perceive as 'supernatural' is nothing but a 'hyper dimensional' being moving its little finger.

to give you a possible implication for such an idea, an 'alien' intelligence of a higher dimensional plane, is able to implant memories, knowledge and even historical events in your reality and make them appear as genuine. yet something like this may look impossible to you.
(i don't think so since you've read marciniak's books)

and in the end everything can be seen as a multi dimensional projection, of immense depth, of which the third density, is only the surface.

we don't exist only on the surface, but we are connected to the center of the projection, rooted in the 'middle' and covering the whole spectrum from the root, we show our manifestation on the third density of geometrical shapes.

we basically are the whole system, alone and together..

Yes, someone is knowingly creating it, but that doesn't alter the fact that the kid thinks it is being immunised against hepatitus B (or whatever lie has been told to the kid or its parents) so therefore(if people possess powers that could cure people) the kid should be 'curable' as he is not creating the disease himself.

the whole process of disease creation, is to make you seek for cures, thus spend your life in fear and frustration and then take all your money for the cures that they manufacture.

and you can take this on any level you want.

It would from one perspective..but if you introduced the laws of physics to those people, it would no longer be seen as 'magic'
Unlike a person walking through a brick wall, which goes against all laws of physics within this 3d reality.

people don't need to be science majors to live their lives. some people live their lives in forests without the need of information and knowledge and additional strands of DNA.
they are happy and they have what they need. they know who they are and they know what they want. and when they die, those who love them don't cry and mourn for years and even die of sadness.
these 'stupid', 'primitive' and 'ignorant' people, as many would have called them, have all those that you mentioned that you need, without even needing them.

But even so, the actual unknowing victims would still suffer from the disease, and would want to be cured even though they arent aware of what is wrong with them.

only as long as he is buying the lie...

if you believe that there is no cure and only an extension of life through chemicals, you are not supposed to get better.

i mean, you block that possibility once and for all even if it is still there as a possibility.

your belief won't allow it.

I agree, but not everybody is affected by mass hypnotism..especially the ones aware of it.

still, they are under the collective consciousness matrix, which is in a big part hypnotized, so they have to operate with conditions.

But our reality is real...to us..at this 3d level...so its not illusion...unless you look at it from the point of oneness....which we are not at.

of course it is real, but it is only the surface.

it is like you have never seen a train, and you see this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/66/Northern_line_train_front.PNG

and you believe that a door is going to hit you.

the point is, we can not not be multidimensional. and multidimensional means that our existence is not just what it appears. you know this, but you are not aware of it. how are you possibly going to be aware of it, by believing that you are trapped and that someone is going to free you, in 2012?

i mean.. the fact is that, if you believe that, then until 2012 you are going to be in the same condition as you are now not having progressed at all, because you are "trapped". :)

but, even if we are indeed trapped and can't escape, this also does not change the fact that we are multidimensional and that we see nothing but the surface of what is.

Non solid = the absence of atoms

so, you mean that you want to become the 'void' permanently or something?

And then, hopefully (according to many authors) we shall have access to less dense realities (illusions from a oneness point of view)..higher vibrational realities.

hopefully? we already have. but you have forgotten about it.

It wouldn't matter how much i changed my belief, and on how many levels, as deep as i could go...i would still perceive solid objects as being solid.
Unless of course my DNA (and everyone elses probably) was changed (expanded) to incorporate a wider range of 'realities' and experiences...then maybe what we perceive as now being solid, would actually not 'feel solid'

atom, means "non divisible". from the greek a-tomos, from "a" (non) and "temno" (cut).

the "atom" got its name from the scientists, who thought that this was the basic particle impossible to divide and reduce.

but, as you know, they were wrong.

as you don't know though, the particle does not even exist.

Crazy to some i suppose, but who is to say that some channeled material is not factual ?

my material is not factual, i don't know about the others. :)

Not necessarily...an expanded DNA system could (and probably would) incorporate an expanded perception of levels of realities (dimensions), in which case some things would appear to be solid but not 'feel' solid due to our higher vibrational bodies.

you can choose any illusion you want. right now, you have chosen this one. you can die too, you know.. and then life stops being a problem.

it's a 'good question' whether to commit suicide or not.

One such need (value) would be our need to evolve spiritually....if we do not continue to evolve we would feel we are 'lacking' in the "spiritual department".

spirit does not share your need to evolve. it just revolves as a spiral.

I doubt i would say anything..because it couldnt change anything...saying to them "i dont believe your lies" wouldnt have any affect upon them, or make them lie less.

yes, it would make you or help you not believe their lies.

Maybe...or render their powers ineffective somehow.

not believing their lies is a start.

I do think about this daily...but the more i think, the more it appears that we are trapped within this 3d DNA realm...which is one reason i decided to start this thread to see what other people thought.

I am enjoying it too. Things like this make good discussion topics, and different viewpoints are a good thing.

thanks. i feel free to express my thoughts :)

[21_12_2012]

maybe even more lifetimes, but it is also a choice. we too have beliefs to remove, because if we didn't we would be efficient, powerful, creative and all that. and we are not.. is it because we are just waiting until we gain some power from the universe?

It has been written many times that the current high vibrations (and high vibrational photons) are actually re-coding our DNA and giving us higher knowledge as well as expanding our perception levels. So this would constitue power from the universe yes.

my point is that the second case, is a first case of a 'higher' dimension.

to give you an example, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWyTxCsIXE4

what you perceive as 'supernatural' is nothing but a 'hyper dimensional' being moving its little finger.

But, as i said, nobody has seen 'feats' like that, because we are locked into this dimension, and cannot perceive anything from higher dimensions..(apart from people such as shamans, proper mediums and people who have encountered 'spirits')..which involves the use of drugs (so the result cannot be definate )...and certain people who have a very very slightly wider frequency perception range that 'normal' people...the rest of us perceive nothing but this 3d world, therefore we are limited to its rules (locked into it)

to give you a possible implication for such an idea, an 'alien' intelligence of a higher dimensional plane, is able to implant memories, knowledge and even historical events in your reality and make them appear as genuine. yet something like this may look impossible to you.
(i don't think so since you've read marciniak's books)

If it happened to you, you would perceive it as impossible too, due to being locked into this perception..you would not be able to explain what has happened to you.

and in the end everything can be seen as a multi dimensional projection, of immense depth, of which the third density, is only the surface.

we don't exist only on the surface, but we are connected to the center of the projection, rooted in the 'middle' and covering the whole spectrum from the root, we show our manifestation on the third density of geometrical shapes.

we basically are the whole system, alone and together..

But we only perceive a tiny frequency range of the 3rd dimension.

the whole process of disease creation, is to make you seek for cures, thus spend your life in fear and frustration and then take all your money for the cures that they manufacture.

I know this, but we were talking about why, if it is possible, are 'people with so-called true creational abilities' not helping the diseased people who have no knowledge of what is wrong with them, didn't create own their disease, had it injected, and now want curing from their disease which was no fault of their own.

people don't need to be science majors to live their lives. some people live their lives in forests without the need of information and knowledge and additional strands of DNA.

True, but they, like us, are locked into this tiny 3d frequency range.

they are happy and they have what they need. they know who they are and they know what they want. and when they die, those who love them don't cry and mourn for years and even die of sadness.
these 'stupid', 'primitive' and 'ignorant' people, as many would have called them, have all those that you mentioned that you need, without even needing them.

But. their lives would be easier if technology was introduced to them, they would want to evolve by having it.

only as long as he is buying the lie...

if you believe that there is no cure and only an extension of life through chemicals, you are not supposed to get better.

i mean, you block that possibility once and for all even if it is still there as a possibility.

your belief won't allow it.

But the kid with the injected disease (who believed it was just an immunisation) wouldnt be buying a lie that he has been given a disease...he would think he has been made safe from disease..so when the disease manifested (aids) he would not have manifested it himself...and would not be buying any lies..he would just want to be better..thats my point.

still, they are under the collective consciousness matrix, which is in a big part hypnotized, so they have to operate with conditions.

So youre saying that the only reason i cannot walk through a wall is because of the collective consciousness? Or is it because of 3d atomic rules and limited DNA structure?

of course it is real, but it is only the surface.

it is like you have never seen a train, and you see this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/66/Northern_line_train_front.PNG

and you believe that a door is going to hit you.

the point is, we can not not be multidimensional. and multidimensional means that our existence is not just what it appears. you know this, but you are not aware of it. how are you possibly going to be aware of it, by believing that you are trapped and that someone is going to free you, in 2012?

But still, we are locked into 3d perception, whether i believe it or not...like everyone else.
If you are aware of us being multidimensional (and believe it), what extra rules can you 'break' in this dimension that i cannot?

i mean.. the fact is that, if you believe that, then until 2012 you are going to be in the same condition as you are now not having progressed at all, because you are "trapped". :)

So how are you progressing more than me by being aware (believing) that we are multidimensional?

but, even if we are indeed trapped and can't escape, this also does not change the fact that we are multidimensional and that we see nothing but the surface of what is.

My point is, that our DNA is trapping us..locking us into this frequency..and offering us a limited amount of perception.

so, you mean that you want to become the 'void' permanently or something?

You asked me what i define as being not solid..and i replied.."not solid=absence of atoms"..so i dont know what youre getting at here.

hopefully? we already have. but you have forgotten about it.

I would say we were at one time, then we were later manipulated into this limited DNA slave situation we are in now.

atom, means "non divisible". from the greek a-tomos, from "a" (non) and "temno" (cut).

the "atom" got its name from the scientists, who thought that this was the basic particle impossible to divide and reduce.

but, as you know, they were wrong.

as you don't know though, the particle does not even exist.

It exists as long as we are locked into this tiny frequency range...we feel it..we can touch it..it affects us..we cannot pass through solid objects..so it does exist on this level.

my material is not factual, i don't know about the others. :)

How do you know your channeled material is not factual?

you can choose any illusion you want. right now, you have chosen this one. you can die too, you know.. and then life stops being a problem.

it's a 'good question' whether to commit suicide or not.

I havent chosen, i am stuck with it, as you are...3d...with all its limits.
If this is not what you have 'chosen' then how is your life different to mine? What can you do that i cannot? Whats the difference between us?
We are still limited by the exact same rules of this dimension, so choice doesnt come into it.

yes, it would make you or help you not believe their lies.

I cant see how telling them that i dont belive their lies would help me to not believe their lies..i dont belive their lies without telling them.

not believing their lies is a start.

I dont.

Do you believe in the evolution of consciousness and the 2012 end date of this 'period' ?(dimension?)

[bigus_dickus]

It has been written many times that the current high vibrations (and high vibrational photons) are actually re-coding our DNA and giving us higher knowledge as well as expanding our perception levels. So this would constitue power from the universe yes.

that would mean that the DNA all over earth would be subject to the "upgrade".

and this is only a speculation and "channeled" information and it is not fact. it is an event placed in the "future" and since 2012 is a date that everyone seems to be obsessed about, it's not strange at all that everyone anticipates a change in this year. but if a change occurs in 2012, it will happen because the people want it, not because it was programmed.

if what mentioned in these books is true, then we are already 'upgraded', but we are not going to see our biology change, because we are our biology and since we live, we remain the same in shape and balance.

imagine that you get your dna upgraded and every other form of life stays as it is, with the 2-strand DNA. you would not be able to function in this environment, you would be as good as dead.

however, those 'new age' ideas, sell a lot.

you can buy your brand new priceless 12-strand DNA on the internet today, with the very reasonable price of ~$100:

http://www.dnaperfection.com/
http://activateyourdna.com/order.html
http://www.dnaactivation.org/ <- here, you can pay something more and activate more strands that you could ever imagine

and hundreds of other sites that sell a lie.

want controversy? check this one out here: http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/Words/D/DNA.htm

these guys sell their own pack and dismiss all the others as fake and they say that they create "anunnaki" dna.

i know a guy who says that has bought the above and he can 'see' his DNA upgraded to 4-5 strands, because he (says) he is a 'remote viewer'.

it's a placebo effect. same case with the 'indigo' and 'crystal' children. look what beliefs can do:

ABC News segment about indigo children - YouTube

these are 'normal' kids, but are they special too? of course they are, their parents programmed them to be even before they got born. in other words, they are as special as you and me, they have just been brainwashed with a different program.

check out how extraordinary a belief can be and what implications our belifs have in our lives:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

this girl believes that god speaks to her and i have no doubt that he does..

But, as i said, nobody has seen 'feats' like that, because we are locked into this dimension, and cannot perceive anything from higher dimensions..(apart from people such as shamans, proper mediums and people who have encountered 'spirits')..which involves the use of drugs (so the result cannot be definate )...and certain people who have a very very slightly wider frequency perception range that 'normal' people...the rest of us perceive nothing but this 3d world, therefore we are limited to its rules (locked into it)

that's how a 3d world is supposed to be. if you add another dimension to it, it stops being 3d!

understand that, dimensions, mean 'freedom degrees'. so in a 3d system, we are free to move in 3 dimensions.

but, are we only moving in 3 dimensions? think about it.

But we only perceive a tiny frequency range of the 3rd dimension.

because we are human beings! aren't we human beings? can you imagine how it would be to perceive the whole thing? would you be able to handle it?

how would it feel to have no privacy whatsoever? how would you feel if right now you found out that right now you and your mind are being watched? would you be able to have a 'normal' life? most people would freak out so much, that they would become paranoid.

I know this, but we were talking about why, if it is possible, are 'people with so-called true creational abilities' not helping the diseased people who have no knowledge of what is wrong with them, didn't create own their disease, had it injected, and now want curing from their disease which was no fault of their own.

they are helping. but it depends on the people to want to be helped and listen. you can't manipulate someone to cure him, he has to have the will to do it. if he doesn't, then he has a good reason and i should respect it because a good reason is good for them because they decide it.

how can i help someone, who doesn't want to let go of the lies that he believes?

But. their lives would be easier if technology was introduced to them, they would want to evolve by having it.

that's what they thought, when they hijacked cultures and religions, to 'civilize' them and establish their own systems.

we would insist that they become like us, we don't like 'different' people. we even see them as 'evil' and try to 'christianize' them.

But the kid with the injected disease (who believed it was just an immunisation) wouldnt be buying a lie that he has been given a disease...he would think he has been made safe from disease..so when the disease manifested (aids) he would not have manifested it himself...and would not be buying any lies..he would just want to be better..thats my point.

he would have no idea about this new disease. he would go to the doctor and the doctor would analyze his blood and find too few white blood cells, that would be the effect of the vaccine.

and then the doctor would tell him "you have AIDS and you are going to die", which would not be the case. and then a brand new adventure would begin.

do you know that 1,5 million kids die today in "3rd world" countries, so that we can have 1,5 million kids of ours in our "1st world"? it is insane! we slaughter "black" kids in order to have "white" kids. and since there is no "white race" and everything about it is a lie and a big illusion, the whole thing is stupid, insane and inhumane to begin with.

So youre saying that the only reason i cannot walk through a wall is because of the collective consciousness? Or is it because of 3d atomic rules and limited DNA structure?

in the 3 dimensions, the light has a constant speed. this creates the illusion of linear time and the 3 dimensions of shapes and forms. with no linear time perception, the 3d reality is not stable.

but, with a macroscopic point of view, the 3 dimensions are not stable, but decaying. everything manifests and gets sustained for a period of time and then decays and dies. we are merely a process of the universe and not forms that are meant to last forever. it's the ego that we have built with our language and lives in the noosphere, that wants to live for ever and struggles with suffering, only to find out that it is only temporary. if you find this out the moment you die, then you have spent your whole life suffering to avoid the inevitable.

that's why 'salvation' sells so much and there are many options to 'save yourself'. you can be 'saved' in a moment, in a lifetime with devotion and ascetic life, or you can pay a few thousand bucks and buy you a brand new body, that is going to die even sooner than if you were just living in harmony with the universe.

But still, we are locked into 3d perception, whether i believe it or not...like everyone else.
If you are aware of us being multidimensional (and believe it), what extra rules can you 'break' in this dimension that i cannot?

if i break any rules, then i break myself. i don't need to break rules, other than rules made by humans.

you can alter any belief and consequently change your whole perspective and understanding of life and do whatever your heart desires with certain techniques. or with only a choice that is all yours.

check out neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) and what it can do for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

that is to say, that if you really really intend something (that is not out of the borders of your workspace; i mean if you want to fly, you die and reincarnate into a bird. humans don't fly, if it was so, people would be flying by now), nothing and no universal force is going to stop you.

if more than a "critical mass" percentage of humans believe that they can fly, then we will see it happen and probably create the proper means to do so.

So how are you progressing more than me by being aware (believing) that we are multidimensional?

no. everyone is progressing the same, but we are all in different stages. there is no "more" and "less" in the universe.

and your beliefs are not 'wrong'. they are simply your reality and reality is "what is real", which is "what is, minus the unreal".

reality does not come to being with mere observation. it is subject to language. and observation does not mean mere perception. perception and observation is a different thing. observation is the understanding of the perceptions, forming ideas with language, thinking those ideas over, creating a 'dense' concept of reality and interacting with it.

if you observe nature carefully, you will understand that it is all language. the same language that we speak, but with different encoding and decoding. and its language is the DNA.

My point is, that our DNA is trapping us..locking us into this frequency..and offering us a limited amount of perception.

ok, but i have explained that this is just a belief and it's not necessarily the truth. the DNA does not exist only in the 3rd dimension, so it is not 'trapped' itself. you just think it is.

You asked me what i define as being not solid..and i replied.."not solid=absence of atoms"..so i dont know what youre getting at here.

you said that the whole existence is "solid" because it contains atoms and that the "non solid" world does not exist, because it is nothingness.

i countered that by showing you that "atoms" are just an illusion. so where is this solidity that you are talking about?

do you know where it is?

I would say we were at one time, then we were later manipulated into this limited DNA slave situation we are in now.

yes, but we are not the DNA. our DNA is us, but we are not our DNA.

It exists as long as we are locked into this tiny frequency range...we feel it..we can touch it..it affects us..we cannot pass through solid objects..so it does exist on this level.

have you ever heard that "reality is an illusion"?

it is illusion, but by illusion we don't mean lie.

for example, when you play a video game on your computer, you take one character and move into a virtual world. when you are at your controls, you are that character and you imagine this world to be real, otherwise you can't play your game and you can't make it to the next level.

to be really good at this game, you have to pretend, as a good actor, that you are that character in the game. and as soon as your game is over, then you are back in your normal self.

this doesn't mean that your game was a lie. it was reality until you decided that you are done with it.

it's the same kind of illusion.. only we are not aware of the real I.

How do you know your channeled material is not factual?

mine is real, not channeled material, i was kidding :)

I havent chosen, i am stuck with it, as you are...3d...with all its limits.
If this is not what you have 'chosen' then how is your life different to mine? What can you do that i cannot? Whats the difference between us?
We are still limited by the exact same rules of this dimension, so choice doesnt come into it.

there is no difference between us! none! nada!

the difference is in your intentions. for example, when you feel that you lack and that there is something you have to wait for, or that there is something that holds you back and doesn't let you live free, you create that reality of yours yourself, i have nothing to do with it.

if you think about wanting and not having, you manifest wanting and not having, because you become what you think. there's no issue about whether you are 'better' or 'worse', there's no such thing, because you are exactly what you think.

I cant see how telling them that i dont belive their lies would help me to not believe their lies..i dont belive their lies without telling them.

then don't believe their 2012 ascension DNA crap..

this shit is designed to keep you further locked. but if you really believe it and can do nothing about it, you still have to wait for 5 years.

i say "don't wait". whatever you want to think and do, do it now. there is no other time, only NOW exists. if you want to wait, fine, but having a negative 'impatient' attitude about it is not very helpful. if it is, please explain to me why.

Do you believe in the evolution of consciousness and the 2012 end date of this 'period' ?(dimension?)

consciousness is awareness that expands with thought, it has nothing to do with evolution. however 2012 is significant because of the beliefs of the majority of the people today, who are brainwashed with it.

evolve
1641, "to unfold, open out, expand," from L. evolvere "unroll," from ex- "out" + volvere "to roll" (see vulva).

in greek, evolution is 'exelixi', which is 'ex' - 'helix', which means 'un' - 'folding'.

it simply means 'change of form'. and with any change of form, there is change of thought and change of consciousness.

the human concept we have about evolution, i think is fundamentally wrong. because a constant change, a constant unfolding, is what this universe does.

i think that darwin's idea is partly the truth, but mostly a mistake.

so a big change is going to happen by that time, but only in our minds and of course our consciousness.

the 'vibrational' changes may eventually happen, but i don't believe this is for 2012. who says so?

[21_12_2012]

This thread has gone way off the mark !
I named the thread "we are NOT all one yet" because we're not at oneness yet. And, in my opinion, we will not be at true 'oneness' until we have evolved as high up the scale of 'dimensions' in the grand illusion as we can go (god level?)

that would mean that the DNA all over earth would be subject to the "upgrade".

That is the idea yes, although not everybody will "make the change' due to excess stored energy (miasms etc) and reluctance to 'go with the flow'. In my opinion, the ones who do not 'make the shift' will remain in this 3d reality, ruled by the current New World Order. The ones who do make it will move into a 'higher' part of the illusion...less dense...less controlled (or maybe no control)

It explains why so many people are currently experiencing 'ascension symptoms' which range from inexplicable 'flu-like' symptoms to relationship breakdowns and mental changes/shifts in attitude. People are changing, and most do not know why. The changes are coming more and more frequently, just as the Mayan calendar predicts. The 'cycles of change' will become more and more close together and more frequent as we near 2012.

and this is only a speculation and "channeled" information and it is not fact.

The Mayan calendar has accurately predicted changes in human consciousness since it's creation.
Check google out for "Ian Lungold"..he is now dead, but he has explained the meanings of the calendar probably better than anyone else ever has. He also presents examples of how the calendar has predicted exactly what it was designed to predict.

it is an event placed in the "future" and since 2012 is a date that everyone seems to be obsessed about, it's not strange at all that everyone anticipates a change in this year. but if a change occurs in 2012, it will happen because the people want it, not because it was programmed.

Even Icke writes about the Mayan end date being highly significant as a 'change' in the 'program' (illusion) to another illusion, yet it still isn't a true transformation to 'oneness'

If, as you say, the change will happen because 'the people want it', how come all the other predictions have come to pass, yet nobody had the knowledge of those 'predictions' like we have today (with the net and books and information sharing technology) ? So how could they have come about by 'the people wanting it?'

if what mentioned in these books is true, then we are already 'upgraded',

If we were 'already upgraded' we wouldn't be locked into this shitty dimension with no power.

but we are not going to see our biology change, because we are our biology and since we live, we remain the same in shape and balance.

How do you know we arent going to see our biology change?

imagine that you get your dna upgraded and every other form of life stays as it is, with the 2-strand DNA. you would not be able to function in this environment, you would be as good as dead

No, you would have ascended into a higher, less dense dimension..

however, those 'new age' ideas, sell a lot.

you can buy your brand new priceless 12-strand DNA on the internet today, with the very reasonable price of ~$100:

http://www.dnaperfection.com/
http://activateyourdna.com/order.html
http://www.dnaactivation.org/ <- here, you can pay something more and activate more strands that you could ever imagine

and hundreds of other sites that sell a lie.

want controversy? check this one out here: http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/Words/D/DNA.htm

these guys sell their own pack and dismiss all the others as fake and they say that they create "anunnaki" dna.

i know a guy who says that has bought the above and he can 'see' his DNA upgraded to 4-5 strands, because he (says) he is a 'remote viewer'.

I'm not saying that there are no 'con-men' jumping onto the bandwagon...
Does this make the whole thing not true?

it's a placebo effect. same case with the 'indigo' and 'crystal' children. look what beliefs can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZwyiy90X2I

these are 'normal' kids, but are they special too? of course they are, their parents programmed them to be even before they got born. in other words, they are as special as you and me, they have just been brainwashed with a different program.

Some of these kids are actually being born with different internal organs to us, and increased psychic abilities..they are highly evolved souls who are specifically coming into this time to assist with the 2012 shift.

But, as i said, nobody has seen 'feats' like that, because we are locked into this dimension, and cannot perceive anything from higher dimensions..(apart from people such as shamans, proper mediums and people who have encountered 'spirits')..which involves the use of drugs (so the result cannot be definate )...and certain people who have a very very slightly wider frequency perception range that 'normal' people...the rest of us perceive nothing but this 3d world, therefore we are limited to its rules (locked into it)

that's how a 3d world is supposed to be. if you add another dimension to it, it stops being 3d!

So are you now saying that we are in fact locked into this 3d world like i have been saying all along?
That must mean that you also agree that we are not at oneness either.

understand that, dimensions, mean 'freedom degrees'. so in a 3d system, we are free to move in 3 dimensions.

Obviously.

but, are we only moving in 3 dimensions? think about it.

We have thought/emotional/astral etc dimensions, but, what i am saying is that our lives are totally dominated by this 3d DNA reality, belief doesnt get us away from it...and we aren't at oneness either.

But we only perceive a tiny frequency range of the 3rd dimension.

because we are human beings! aren't we human beings? can you imagine how it would be to perceive the whole thing? would you be able to handle it?

So, do you not believe that there are other human beings that are more highly evolved than us living in higher dimensions than we are?
Why couldnt we handle it, if our current DNA was changed and our bodies and minds cleansed, i would think everybody could handle 'moving up' a level or 2 in the illusion.

how would it feel to have no privacy whatsoever? how would you feel if right now you found out that right now you and your mind are being watched? would you be able to have a 'normal' life? most people would freak out so much, that they would become paranoid.

Whos to say we would be 'being watched' ? Why would a loving being want to watch another loving being? And how do you know that 'feelings' like paranoia would be able to exist at higher levels?
Probably the only reason that human can actually feel all the negative emotions that we feel is because we are at this low level of 3d reality...higher levels will be free from low-vibrational emotion..it stands to reason.

I know this, but we were talking about why, if it is possible, are 'people with so-called true creational abilities' not helping the diseased people who have no knowledge of what is wrong with them, didn't create own their disease, had it injected, and now want curing from their disease which was no fault of their own.

they are helping. but it depends on the people to want to be helped and listen. you can't manipulate someone to cure him, he has to have the will to do it. if he doesn't, then he has a good reason and i should respect it because a good reason is good for them because they decide it.

Im quite lost here with that reply.

how can i help someone, who doesn't want to let go of the lies that he believes?

The diseased kid would not be holding onto any lies...they would just know they were ill, and not what was wrong with them (he believes he was injected with a vaccine weeks before to guard against hepatitus B, yet now he has a mystery illness which is really aids...what lies is he holding onto?)

But. their lives would be easier if technology was introduced to them, they would want to evolve by having it.

that's what they thought, when they hijacked cultures and religions, to 'civilize' them and establish their own systems.

we would insist that they become like us, we don't like 'different' people. we even see them as 'evil' and try to 'christianize' them.

You were speaking about cultures being happy with having no technology etc..i was just stating that it would make life easier for them, and they would in fact embrace it and appreciate some technology.

But the kid with the injected disease (who believed it was just an immunisation) wouldnt be buying a lie that he has been given a disease...he would think he has been made safe from disease..so when the disease manifested (aids) he would not have manifested it himself...and would not be buying any lies..he would just want to be better..thats my point.

he would have no idea about this new disease. he would go to the doctor and the doctor would analyze his blood and find too few white blood cells, that would be the effect of the vaccine.

and then the doctor would tell him "you have AIDS and you are going to die", which would not be the case. and then a brand new adventure would begin.

So, are you trying to say, that if someone got aids and never knew they had it, then they would not die from it? You're trying to say it is all in the mind and the belief? And nobody dies from it unless they know they have it and believe they have it?

do you know that 1,5 million kids die today in "3rd world" countries, so that we can have 1,5 million kids of ours in our "1st world"? it is insane! we slaughter "black" kids in order to have "white" kids. and since there is no "white race" and everything about it is a lie and a big illusion, the whole thing is stupid, insane and inhumane to begin with.

I am aware of the numbers of african children who die each day.

]So youre saying that the only reason i cannot walk through a wall is because of the collective consciousness? Or is it because of 3d atomic rules and limited DNA structure?

in the 3 dimensions, the light has a constant speed. this creates the illusion of linear time and the 3 dimensions of shapes and forms. with no linear time perception, the 3d reality is not stable.

but, with a macroscopic point of view, the 3 dimensions are not stable, but decaying. everything manifests and gets sustained for a period of time and then decays and dies. we are merely a process of the universe and not forms that are meant to last forever. it's the ego that we have built with our language and lives in the noosphere, that wants to live for ever and struggles with suffering, only to find out that it is only temporary. if you find this out the moment you die, then you have spent your whole life suffering to avoid the inevitable.

that's why 'salvation' sells so much and there are many options to 'save yourself'. you can be 'saved' in a moment, in a lifetime with devotion and ascetic life, or you can pay a few thousand bucks and buy you a brand new body, that is going to die even sooner than if you were just living in harmony with the universe.

But you didnt answer the question ! What is the reason i cannot walk through a wall? Is it because of the collective consciousness? Or is it (as is my opinion) because of 3d atomic rules and our limited DNA structure?

But still, we are locked into 3d perception, whether i believe it or not...like everyone else.
If you are aware of us being multidimensional (and believe it), what extra rules can you 'break' in this dimension that i cannot?

if i break any rules, then i break myself. i don't need to break rules, other than rules made by humans.

you can alter any belief and consequently change your whole perspective and understanding of life and do whatever your heart desires with certain techniques. or with only a choice that is all yours.

check out neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) and what it can do for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-l...ic_programming

You can only do whatever your heart desires 'within limits' no matter what beliefs you apply or change...or no matter how much 'will power'...there will always be things that cannot be achieved within this 3d reality.
Even with hypnosis (NLP) etc...has anybody ever made anyone else go through a solid object, or levitate under hypnosis? No..because there are limits to this 3d world...so ANYTHING is NOT possible.

that is to say, that if you really really intend something (that is not out of the borders of your workspace; i mean if you want to fly, you die and reincarnate into a bird. humans don't fly, if it was so, people would be flying by now), nothing and no universal force is going to stop you.

Exactly, people would be flying now if it was possible...and passing through solid walls...and a million other 'feats' which will never be achieved within this 3d reality..which proves my point that we are NOT at oneness, and also it doesnt matter how hard we believe something, or change our beliefs, it isnt gunna happen.

if more than a "critical mass" percentage of humans believe that they can fly, then we will see it happen and probably create the proper means to do so.

Id like to see it.

So how are you progressing more than me by being aware (believing) that we are multidimensional?

no. everyone is progressing the same, but we are all in different stages. there is no "more" and "less" in the universe.

and your beliefs are not 'wrong'. they are simply your reality and reality is "what is real", which is "what is, minus the unreal".

But that statement doesnt hold true...one person might believe that 'everything is possible'...whereas i do not believe that...does that make 'everything possible' ? No...so how can that persons reality be different to mine...its a fact that it is not possible to do anything...there are limits.

My point is, that our DNA is trapping us..locking us into this frequency..and offering us a limited amount of perception.

ok, but i have explained that this is just a belief and it's not necessarily the truth. the DNA does not exist only in the 3rd dimension, so it is not 'trapped' itself. you just think it is.

Well, show me somebody...anybody..who does not believe that their DNA is trapping them into this 3d reality...and show me how different they are to me, and what they can and have achieved by believing this.

You asked me what i define as being not solid..and i replied.."not solid=absence of atoms"..so i dont know what youre getting at here.

you said that the whole existence is "solid" because it contains atoms and that the "non solid" world does not exist, because it is nothingness.

i countered that by showing you that "atoms" are just an illusion. so where is this solidity that you are talking about?

do you know where it is?

As i said before, everything that contains atoms (including the water, and wind example that you mentioned) will feel solid to us as long as we are trapped within this 3d reality...it is energy condensed to a low vibration...and it interacts with our 3d dna reality, so yes, it is solid on 'our level' and theres no getting away from it.

I would say we were at one time, then we were later manipulated into this limited DNA slave situation we are in now.

yes, but we are not the DNA. our DNA is us, but we are not our DNA.

I know. We are a combination of 7 different bodies.
But the main body which we experience is our 3d 2 strand DNA body, in combination with our emotional and other higher bodies.
Nobody can bypass this 3d body permanently..nobody (to my knowledge) has ascended out of this dimension to be able to bypass this dna either. We are trapped.

It exists as long as we are locked into this tiny frequency range...we feel it..we can touch it..it affects us..we cannot pass through solid objects..so it does exist on this level.

have you ever heard that "reality is an illusion"?

Yes. But as long as we are locked into it like we are, the bullet coming at you is solid...it will kill you...and illusion doesnt come into it does it?

it is illusion, but by illusion we don't mean lie.

I know exactly what the illusion thing is all about..BUT WE ARE TRAPPED IN A 3D DNA SITUATION!

for example, when you play a video game on your computer, you take one character and move into a virtual world. when you are at your controls, you are that character and you imagine this world to be real, otherwise you can't play your game and you can't make it to the next level.

to be really good at this game, you have to pretend, as a good actor, that you are that character in the game. and as soon as your game is over, then you are back in your normal self.

this doesn't mean that your game was a lie. it was reality until you decided that you are done with it.

it's the same kind of illusion.. only we are not aware of the real I.

You can leave the video game...you CANNOT leave this 3d DNA prison !!!

I cant see how telling them that i dont belive their lies would help me to not believe their lies..i dont belive their lies without telling them.

then don't believe their 2012 ascension DNA crap..

this shit is designed to keep you further locked. but if you really believe it and can do nothing about it, you still have to wait for 5 years.

i say "don't wait". whatever you want to think and do, do it now. there is no other time, only NOW exists. if you want to wait, fine, but having a negative 'impatient' attitude about it is not very helpful. if it is, please explain to me why.

Youd have to be very naive or closed-minded to ignore the mountains of information about the Mayan calendar and its accuracy to think that it is '2012 ascension DNA crap' as you put it !

Who has a negative impatient attitude? I started this thread to put people straight that we are, in fact, not at oneness as many people on here like to keep quoting.
We are far from it..and we are separated probably as much as we could ever be separated...and thats a 3D DNA fact, not a choice.

Do you believe in the evolution of consciousness and the 2012 end date of this 'period' ?(dimension?)

consciousness is awareness that expands with thought, it has nothing to do with evolution. however 2012 is significant because of the beliefs of the majority of the people today, who are brainwashed with it.

I think you need to watch Ian Lungold's "evolution of consciousness' video on google.

evolve
1641, "to unfold, open out, expand," from L. evolvere "unroll," from ex- "out" + volvere "to roll" (see vulva).

in greek, evolution is 'exelixi', which is 'ex' - 'helix', which means 'un' - 'folding'.

it simply means 'change of form'. and with any change of form, there is change of thought and change of consciousness.

the human concept we have about evolution, i think is fundamentally wrong. because a constant change, a constant unfolding, is what this universe does.

i think that darwin's idea is partly the truth, but mostly a mistake.

so a big change is going to happen by that time, but only in our minds and of course our consciousness.

the 'vibrational' changes may eventually happen, but i don't believe this is for 2012. who says so?


As above, you need to see some 2012 videos..or read some 2012 material.

[bigus_dickus]

This thread has gone way off the mark !
I named the thread "we are NOT all one yet" because we're not at oneness yet. And, in my opinion, we will not be at true 'oneness' until we have evolved as high up the scale of 'dimensions' in the grand illusion as we can go (god level?)

and i responded that we ARE all one always. we can not not be. it is only YOUR opinion, that we will not be at true 'oneness' until we have evolved as high up the scale of 'dimensions' in the grand illusion as we can go. you believe that you have a ladder to climb to become "god", i don't.

so, if 'I' am (at) oneness, then 'I' am (at) one with you, so 'WE' are (at) one. but since 'you' are not at oneness, then 'you' are not at one with 'I', so 'we' are not at oneness. the 'WE' is different than the 'we' and the difference is nothing more than a simple understanding.

That is the idea yes, although not everybody will "make the change' due to excess stored energy (miasms etc) and reluctance to 'go with the flow'. In my opinion, the ones who do not 'make the shift' will remain in this 3d reality, ruled by the current New World Order. The ones who do make it will move into a 'higher' part of the illusion...less dense...less controlled (or maybe no control)

people have had this idea for millenniums and they always believed that the 'end times' are near.

you are waiting for the sun to clear us, that's what we are doing, you are saying nothing new to me. people have believed that they are trapped for ages, influenced of course by some other who knew. a 'salvation' scenario helps this cause, that's why it has always been present.

It explains why so many people are currently experiencing 'ascension symptoms' which range from inexplicable 'flu-like' symptoms to relationship breakdowns and mental changes/shifts in attitude. People are changing, and most do not know why. The changes are coming more and more frequently, just as the Mayan calendar predicts. The 'cycles of change' will become more and more close together and more frequent as we near 2012.

they are not changing, their way of thinking changes. they were always the same selves that they are now. if you remember something that you have forgotten, that doesn't mean that you change, you simply remember, you put your mind to it.

The Mayan calendar has accurately predicted changes in human consciousness since it's creation.
Check google out for "Ian Lungold"..he is now dead, but he has explained the meanings of the calendar probably better than anyone else ever has. He also presents examples of how the calendar has predicted exactly what it was designed to predict.

i am well aware of ian lungold, i have seen all his videos and i love him even though he is dead.

Even Icke writes about the Mayan end date being highly significant as a 'change' in the 'program' (illusion) to another illusion, yet it still isn't a true transformation to 'oneness'

of course he does, because the mayan calendar is accurate. but what does "end" date mean? what ends?

If, as you say, the change will happen because 'the people want it', how come all the other predictions have come to pass, yet nobody had the knowledge of those 'predictions' like we have today (with the net and books and information sharing technology) ? So how could they have come about by 'the people wanting it?'

lol...

predictions? what are predictions? predictions get defined by their own purpose, when they come true, that is when they become predictions.

simple example.

man A talks about future event E1
man B talks about future event E2

E2, happens to come to pass, so then:

man A was 'wrong'
man B was 'predicting'

therefore everything that man B has said is 'prediction' and he is a 'prophet' and everything man A has said gets forgotten and not mentioned again

it's a joke.

but if i say something now and it makes an impact and you start thinking about it, and more people start thinking about it, it becomes theory and then in time when even more people put their attention to it, they unconsciously and consciously 'working' to its direction.

that would make me a great prophet.

If we were 'already upgraded' we wouldn't be locked into this shitty dimension with no power.

as long as i think 'locked', locked i shall be.

How do you know we arent going to see our biology change?

well, i am going to, when i die

No, you would have ascended into a higher, less dense dimension..

and you would be dead.

I'm not saying that there are no 'con-men' jumping onto the bandwagon...
Does this make the whole thing not true?

no, it makes the whole thing a bandwagon.

Some of these kids are actually being born with different internal organs to us, and increased psychic abilities..they are highly evolved souls who are specifically coming into this time to assist with the 2012 shift.

some of these kids actually have different DNA. we create these kids. we evolve our 'souls', we specifically come to assist and all that.

So are you now saying that we are in fact locked into this 3d world like i have been saying all along?
That must mean that you also agree that we are not at oneness either.

i am not not at oneness, neither i am at oneness. i can never be 'at' oneness, because it would have to be something separate than I.

We have thought/emotional/astral etc dimensions, but, what i am saying is that our lives are totally dominated by this 3d DNA reality, belief doesnt get us away from it...and we aren't at oneness either.

of course they aren't dominated by the 3D! you dominate your body with your thoughts. your thoughts aren't 3D. or are YOUR thoughts 3D?

So, do you not believe that there are other human beings that are more highly evolved than us living in higher dimensions than we are?
Why couldnt we handle it, if our current DNA was changed and our bodies and minds cleansed, i would think everybody could handle 'moving up' a level or 2 in the illusion.

of course there are. hundreds of millions and there are many here on earth too.

Whos to say we would be 'being watched' ? Why would a loving being want to watch another loving being? And how do you know that 'feelings' like paranoia would be able to exist at higher levels?

paranoia is not a feeling.

Probably the only reason that human can actually feel all the negative emotions that we feel is because we are at this low level of 3d reality...higher levels will be free from low-vibrational emotion..it stands to reason.

no, we feel the negative emotions that we feel, because they define the positive. and because they are there and they will always be there.

emotions are vibrations of different scales. when you don't choose what to feel, you get a clue of what creates it, what motivates it and learn how to choose.

if you really want it, that is.

The diseased kid would not be holding onto any lies...they would just know they were ill, and not what was wrong with them (he believes he was injected with a vaccine weeks before to guard against hepatitus B, yet now he has a mystery illness which is really aids...what lies is he holding onto?)

AIDS is not a mystery illness. it does not exist in nature, so that you can catch it.

what if a doctor examined you and told you that you are going to die? and this is of course not true? and all doctors tell you the same, because they are the wrong idea with what they find? and then make you take all this sickening medication? you would have something, it would not be AIDS, but it would be fatal.
or you could simply change your mind about this.

You were speaking about cultures being happy with having no technology etc..i was just stating that it would make life easier for them, and they would in fact embrace it and appreciate some technology.

we were speaking about cultures who are well aware of themselves without technology and who would experience our modern technology as 'supernatural' or 'magic'.

this means that anything 'supernatural' or 'magic' to us now, is just advanced technology that we are not aware of.

So, are you trying to say, that if someone got aids and never knew they had it, then they would not die from it? You're trying to say it is all in the mind and the belief? And nobody dies from it unless they know they have it and believe they have it?

AIDS is a syndrome, not a virus. it doesn't exist in nature, it is man made.

But you didnt answer the question ! What is the reason i cannot walk through a wall? Is it because of the collective consciousness? Or is it (as is my opinion) because of 3d atomic rules and our limited DNA structure?

the reason is, that you put that wall there to keep others from coming in. you put that wall there for a reason.

if you could walk through that wall, then you would make another wall, of other kind, to keep others from coming in and then you would want to penetrate that other wall yourself. is this some kind of obsession of yours?

You can only do whatever your heart desires 'within limits' no matter what beliefs you apply or change...or no matter how much 'will power'...there will always be things that cannot be achieved within this 3d reality.
Even with hypnosis (NLP) etc...has anybody ever made anyone else go through a solid object, or levitate under hypnosis? No..because there are limits to this 3d world...so ANYTHING is NOT possible.

that means that SOMETHING IS possible.

you can not only do what you desire within limits. you can only do what you know, can you do something that you don't know? if you could, maybe you would create new possibilities.

Exactly, people would be flying now if it was possible...and passing through solid walls...and a million other 'feats' which will never be achieved within this 3d reality..which proves my point that we are NOT at oneness, and also it doesnt matter how hard we believe something, or change our beliefs, it isnt gunna happen.

so if it isn't gonna happen, what is it all about?

But that statement doesnt hold true...one person might believe that 'everything is possible'...whereas i do not believe that...does that make 'everything possible' ? No...so how can that persons reality be different to mine...its a fact that it is not possible to do anything...there are limits.

of course not, but it makes 'everything is possible' to be possible.

Well, show me somebody...anybody..who does not believe that their DNA is trapping them into this 3d reality...and show me how different they are to me, and what they can and have achieved by believing this.

me, i don't believe that DNA is trapping me into any reality. i can't talk about anyone else but me. i am not going to tell you what i have achieved though.

As i said before, everything that contains atoms (including the water, and wind example that you mentioned) will feel solid to us as long as we are trapped within this 3d reality...it is energy condensed to a low vibration...and it interacts with our 3d dna reality, so yes, it is solid on 'our level' and theres no getting away from it.

there is a way.. to die.

I know. We are a combination of 7 different bodies.
But the main body which we experience is our 3d 2 strand DNA body, in combination with our emotional and other higher bodies.
Nobody can bypass this 3d body permanently..nobody (to my knowledge) has ascended out of this dimension to be able to bypass this dna either. We are trapped.

you simply do it when you sleep. it is right there, no need to say more.

Yes. But as long as we are locked into it like we are, the bullet coming at you is solid...it will kill you...and illusion doesnt come into it does it?

there are many things that can kill you, not only a bullet. even a simple thought can kill you, that is not solid. and the bullet, it is just another idea. if you were not solid, you would have non solid 'bullets' to threaten you. i mean you could have.

what a bullet can do is destroy your body, it can't destroy who you are.

I know exactly what the illusion thing is all about..BUT WE ARE TRAPPED IN A 3D DNA SITUATION!

no we are not.

You can leave the video game...you CANNOT leave this 3d DNA prison !!!

you leave it when you sleep, meditate, have an 'alternative reality' experience, have a 'virtual reality' experience, a religious experience and so on.

if you want to leave this life permanently, then just die. it is an option you know.

Youd have to be very naive or closed-minded to ignore the mountains of information about the Mayan calendar and its accuracy to think that it is '2012 ascension DNA crap' as you put it !

the mayan calendar has nothing to do with the 'new age'.

Who has a negative impatient attitude? I started this thread to put people straight that we are, in fact, not at oneness as many people on here like to keep quoting.
We are far from it..and we are separated probably as much as we could ever be separated...and thats a 3D DNA fact, not a choice.

no it's not.

As above, you need to see some 2012 videos..or read some 2012 material.

sure, you know better what i need. :rolleyes:

[graflok]

Oneness sucks.

We are not "all one" and we have never been "all one."

"All one" is the spiritual equivalent of the New World Order, i.e., a global fascist
state. Oneness is the New Spiritual Order, a global mish-mash of miserable, trapped souls.
It is the opposite of spiritual freedom.

Those con artist, Eastern religion illuminati scum bags who started this "all one" idea know it too.
That's why they use all those flower petals and incense -- because that "all one" crap stinks to high
heaven.

And, they want to use it to trap you after you die because trapping you while
you are alive isn't enough for those slimy creatures.

Eastern religions are just as corrupt and illuminati-run as western ones, maybe more so.

"All One" is bullshit from start to finish -- don't buy it.

Just be free. Just be YOU. :)


There -- now doesn't that feel better?

graflok

[bigus_dickus]

Oneness sucks.

We are not "all one" and we have never been "all one."

it is really a matter of understanding and it is not such a big deal as people have made it.

it's like asking "what are you going to be after you are dead".

[21_12_2012]

it is really a matter of understanding and it is not such a big deal as people have made it.

it's like asking "what are you going to be after you are dead".

I like your attitude..it is very similar to mine...and i can see where you are coming from on all your points, believe it or not !

I will reply to your last big post when i get time tomorrow probably.

[cleft_asunder]

Since when did "oneness" have anything to do with thinking? I guess you're talking about a different state, because the one I have in mind is the enlightenment state which you go into when you surrender to the now. When the mind tries to grab hold of this state called "our true nature," you lose the experience.

In other words, in the grandest scale we are that "emptiness" and the whole Matrix and everything is going on in this "emptiness," and we are all that emptiness, and everything is one.

[bigus_dickus]

Since when did "oneness" have anything to do with thinking?

since it began to do with talking (about it).

[21_12_2012]

and i responded that we ARE all one always. we can not not be. it is only YOUR opinion, that we will not be at true 'oneness' until we have evolved as high up the scale of 'dimensions' in the grand illusion as we can go. you believe that you have a ladder to climb to become "god", i don't.

so, if 'I' am (at) oneness, then 'I' am (at) one with you, so 'WE' are (at) one. but since 'you' are not at oneness, then 'you' are not at one with 'I', so 'we' are not at oneness. the 'WE' is different than the 'we' and the difference is nothing more than a simple understanding.

I agree, at the deepest of levels though, we are oneness, but at our level of 'reality' (the reality that our limited DNA lets us access) we are far from oneness...we are disconnected from it, so therefore we cannot be 'living' it.
If we were not disconnected from it like we are, we would all be capable of creating whatever we wanted (in positive terms) but like i said, this isn't happening yet.
Even Icke says on page 194 of 'infinite love':-
About the 2012 end date...
"I have no problem with the fact that 2012 is significant in time loop terms. nor that the Mayans clearly had a remarkable grasp of the planetary and cosmic cycles they related to time"
BUT....
"there is no time, and anything that identifies with it is not a transformation to oneness"
So even after 2012 we will probably not be 'transforming to oneness' as Icke says, so how can we be there now?

people have had this idea for millenniums and they always believed that the 'end times' are near.

I'm not saying 2012 is an 'end time', its a change time...ascension time.

they are not changing, their way of thinking changes. they were always the same selves that they are now. if you remember something that you have forgotten, that doesn't mean that you change, you simply remember, you put your mind to it.

Their (our) physical bodies are changing as well as ways of thinking. DNA is changing.

of course he does, because the mayan calendar is accurate. but what does "end" date mean? what ends?

Many sources say 'time' ends...but who knows if this relates to everybody or not. Time ending would relate to ascension, because time does not exist like it does in the 3rd dimension when you go to higher dimensions.

predictions? what are predictions? predictions get defined by their own purpose, when they come true, that is when they become predictions.

simple example.

man A talks about future event E1
man B talks about future event E2

E2, happens to come to pass, so then:

man A was 'wrong'
man B was 'predicting'

therefore everything that man B has said is 'prediction' and he is a 'prophet' and everything man A has said gets forgotten and not mentioned again

it's a joke.

but if i say something now and it makes an impact and you start thinking about it, and more people start thinking about it, it becomes theory and then in time when even more people put their attention to it, they unconsciously and consciously 'working' to its direction.

that would make me a great prophet.

I am not aware of the Mayan calendar being wrong on anything it 'predicts'

as long as i think 'locked', locked i shall be.

I would like to believe that this is 'true', but i still have yet to see anyone who is 'unlocked' from this dimension enough to be totally free and connected with oneness, and truly creating whatever they desire. That to me is unlocked.

well, i am going to, when i die

There is no death ! We are energy, and that cannot be destroyed !

and you would be dead.

There is no death !

no, it makes the whole thing a bandwagon.

But it doesnt make it all dismissable.

i am not not at oneness, neither i am at oneness. i can never be 'at' oneness, because it would have to be something separate than I.

But what i am saying is no matter how much we believe we are oneness, we are disconnected from it at this level of our 'reality' by our limited DNA.

of course they aren't dominated by the 3D! you dominate your body with your thoughts. your thoughts aren't 3D. or are YOUR thoughts 3D?

No, thoughts arent 3d, but even so, i could think and think and think the same thought (and believe it) and in this reality it would not manifest due to the 'rules' and constraints of this DNA reality we are in.

paranoia is not a feeling.

OK its a conditioned response, along with fear i suppose....but id like to see someone not let fear or paranoia register in their brains if a loaded gun was pointed at them, or they were being pursued by a group of murderers or something.

no, we feel the negative emotions that we feel, because they define the positive. and because they are there and they will always be there.

emotions are vibrations of different scales. when you don't choose what to feel, you get a clue of what creates it, what motivates it and learn how to choose.

if you really want it, that is.

Emotions/feelings are what make us 'who we are'...what about compassion and love?...these things are hardwired into us, probably into our deepest soul levels...theres no disconnecting from that, especially at our 3d level of reality.
Who would want to disconnect from emotions? It would make a very boring person if they were totally un-emotional.
I have read that many people on the earth right now have no souls, although i am unsure if this is correct or not, but i have met many 'cold' people.
I doubt that a 'normal person' with a soul could disconnect from their emotions to the extent of being totally 'blank'

AIDS is not a mystery illness. it does not exist in nature, so that you can catch it.

what if a doctor examined you and told you that you are going to die? and this is of course not true? and all doctors tell you the same, because they are the wrong idea with what they find? and then make you take all this sickening medication? you would have something, it would not be AIDS, but it would be fatal.
or you could simply change your mind about this.

I agree, if you didn't have aids or any form of life threatening disease, and you believed you wouldn't die, then you wouldn't...but what i don't believe is if someone does get aids, and doesn't know its aids (example a person who doesn't live near any doctors and doesn't get checked out by anybody) if they don't believe they are going to die, they will still 'die' (go to another dimension), because the disease will physically kill them, belief or no belief.

we were speaking about cultures who are well aware of themselves without technology and who would experience our modern technology as 'supernatural' or 'magic'.

this means that anything 'supernatural' or 'magic' to us now, is just advanced technology that we are not aware of.

It wouldn't necessarily mean it is advanced technology. For example, a solid person walking through a solid object, that would be super-human or super-natural, but technology couldn't change a persons 'energy' vibration to enable him to pass through another 'solid' object, due to his DNA and the level of his 'vibration' being so low in this 3rd dimension.
Even cloaking devices which make 'ufo's' (man made or otherwise) appear to dissapear, this is only an illusion of it dissapearing, and ufo's that actually leave our 'frequency perception' range, they haven't really dissappeared, our DNA and frequency reception will not allow us to see it any more, due to the fact that we have limited range (in my opinion we were 'manipulated' by whoever created our 'latest human form' to have limited perception range)

AIDS is a syndrome, not a virus. it doesn't exist in nature, it is man made.

I know, but it still destroys our immune system and allows us to die from minor diseases, whether we believe we will die or not.

the reason is, that you put that wall there to keep others from coming in. you put that wall there for a reason.

if you could walk through that wall, then you would make another wall, of other kind, to keep others from coming in and then you would want to penetrate that other wall yourself. is this some kind of obsession of yours?

You've lost me there.
I've put no wall up..if a wall exists on a street, it exists on a street, collective consciousness states this fact.
If anyone could walk through it they would not be from this dense dimension.
If i could walk through it, i would not be from this dense dimension either. And i'm lost where you say 'you would make another wall to keep others coming in"
Obsession? ! It's an example of how we are locked into 3d DNA rules, and theres no getting away from it, belief or no belief.

that means that SOMETHING IS possible.

you can not only do what you desire within limits. you can only do what you know, can you do something that you don't know? if you could, maybe you would create new possibilities.

If i 'knew' i could walk through a wall, would i still be able to do it? Consensus reality states otherwise...collective consciousness and 3d DNA rules will not permit it, whether i 'know' it or not.
I'm not saying "nothing is possible" from beliefs, i am saying there are rules and limits, and beliefs and 'knowing' cannot change these rules.

so if it isn't gonna happen, what is it all about?

It's about this thread "we're not all one yet" and we cannot truly create our own realities. That's all it's about.
I should have named the thread "we are disonnected from oneness" but it's still the same meaning.

of course not, but it makes 'everything is possible' to be possible.

I fail to see how that makes sense. Collective (conscensus) reality, and the rules i have stated above create limits. So therefore 'everything isn't possible'

me, i don't believe that DNA is trapping me into any reality. i can't talk about anyone else but me. i am not going to tell you what i have achieved though.

Fair enough statement, but it still doesn't get around the 'rules' that limit us in this dimension.

there is a way.. to die.

There is no death ! Even so, things would appear solid in that dimension where we are 'dead'

you simply do it when you sleep. it is right there, no need to say more.

I said "nobody is able to bypass this 3d dna body permanently", sleeping isn't permanent.

there are many things that can kill you, not only a bullet. even a simple thought can kill you, that is not solid. and the bullet, it is just another idea. if you were not solid, you would have non solid 'bullets' to threaten you. i mean you could have.

I doubt there would be threats at higher dimensions, but who knows. And i've never heard of thoughts killing people.

what a bullet can do is destroy your body, it can't destroy who you are.

True

no we are not.

Have to disagree with you there. We are trapped and limited in a 3d DNA situation.

you leave it when you sleep, meditate, have an 'alternative reality' experience, have a 'virtual reality' experience, a religious experience and so on.

if you want to leave this life permanently, then just die. it is an option you know.

You leave it 'temporarily' when you sleep/meditate etc...I'm talking about permanently..it isn't possible to bypass the DNA reality..even hypnotists' subjects are limited to what they can do under trance conditions...its because the DNA is limiting them, and the collective reality.
And why death? Ascension would be enough.

the mayan calendar has nothing to do with the 'new age'.

How come the 2012 end time correlates with ascension information if they're not related?

no it's not.

Have to disagree again...we are trapped !

sure, you know better what i need. :rolleyes:

Fair enough, but there is mountains of information out there about ascension/Mayan end time and the current increasing vibrations which are changing our bodies, DNA and our thinking.
Whether it's channeled or not, it's information that makes sense, and cannot be dismissed.

[bigus_dickus]

I agree, at the deepest of levels though, we are oneness, but at our level of 'reality' (the reality that our limited DNA lets us access) we are far from oneness...we are disconnected from it, so therefore we cannot be 'living' it.
If we were not disconnected from it like we are, we would all be capable of creating whatever we wanted (in positive terms) but like i said, this isn't happening yet.
Even Icke says on page 194 of 'infinite love':-
About the 2012 end date...
"I have no problem with the fact that 2012 is significant in time loop terms. nor that the Mayans clearly had a remarkable grasp of the planetary and cosmic cycles they related to time"
BUT....
"there is no time, and anything that identifies with it is not a transformation to oneness"
So even after 2012 we will probably not be 'transforming to oneness' as Icke says, so how can we be there now?

well, as you know, 'oneness' refers to a timeless dimension, or in other words in a dimension that is no subject to time. which means that all our past, present and future is included in just one of its moments, the eternal now.

you can't be contemplating 'oneness' and asking for connectivity of your awareness with it, if you are not aware of the basic principle, that all of existence is happening together in one moment.

this means that 'oneness' IS before, IS now and IS after. which also means, there is no single moment, in which 'oneness' IS NOT. it is a matter of perception of a local consciousness, being conscious of a separate body, perceiving oneness as a separate entity, that 'oneness' does not seem to exist in its reality. we basically make these agreements before we show up in a world as manifest beings. so, to want to break these agreements, defies our purpose to begin with.

so you are now found in a realm of relativity, in which you exist only because of others and you can be conscious of yourself only because you can be conscious of others. how would it be if you were the only one that existed? i mean no other, no space, no time, no people, no animals, no planets, nothing. you wouldn't have anywhere to look at, anything to experience, anything to create. but you can be human, by being among humans and you are a human being, because you showed up as a human being, which means you agreed to play the human game.

from another point of view, more 'mechanistic' you are nothing but water and dna. molecules that combine together and form a creature. and as that, you are one with all nature that is exactly as you.

from another point of view, more 'esoteric', your identity is nothing but an illusion and it doesn't even exist. so, that means, that everyone else is the same thing, which is mere nothingness experiencing itself in worlds, therefore there can be no two nothingnesses. there can only be one nothingness, the being of no being, which is not a being, but it is 'oneness' as the world of the unmanifest.

there can be many points of view that it can be seen and it can also be seen as total separation, as a "me and you", or "us and them" situation, which is the most common among us.

then, what can we make of all that? as far as i know, none of the above is an explanation. it all derives from the necessity of truth, but this necessity does not come from our need for truth, because a need means a lack and a lack means that someone or something is blocking our perception. but that is a general belief that our perceptions are blocked and that "we can do better".

but, of course we would, but you see, right now, the earth is doing "war on terror". i am an alien and i view the earth from above and it says that the humans are doing a "war on terror" right now and thus they are terrified themselves. that's how i see oneness in them.. so how can they change their situation, it is entirely up to them.

how "more oneness" could it get from that.. maybe if they all decided to stop fighting and see how they can work together for the benefit of their lives and their spirits, then they would start to begin to see with their eyes what it means to be creative. then maybe it would be possible for them to create 'oneness' and peace with themselves and start to experience what always has been there, but never was experienced before. except in small breaks from their fears.

I'm not saying 2012 is an 'end time', its a change time...ascension time.

oh well, time does not exist, so whatever time 2012 is, it doesn't exist also. why not now be an ascension time? where are we going to ascend to?

Their (our) physical bodies are changing as well as ways of thinking. DNA is changing.

have our bodies ever ceased changing? right now billions of creatures go in and out of your body from all possible directions. our bodies are in constant change and exchange, all the time, no stop. we never stop breathing while we live, we never stop recycling energy in order to move. if we didn't belong in this balanced realm, we would be discarded as waste.

yet, each one of us is unique, even each one of our cells is unique, if it wasn't like that, we would not be separate. if i wasn't unique, there would be many copies of me, that would behave exactly as i do in the same world. but that would make life impossible in this world. however maybe there are copies of us in other worlds that we are not aware of in our consciousness and if it is so, there should be a good reason for that.

Many sources say 'time' ends...but who knows if this relates to everybody or not. Time ending would relate to ascension, because time does not exist like it does in the 3rd dimension when you go to higher dimensions.

i agree. since time does not exist, how can it end? time, as we know it, would 'end' if the universe suddenly stopped moving. which means everything stopped moving, which we now fantasize as time 'stopping'. what happens when time stops, everything freezes. time runs, everything moves. so time, has to do with movement and our measuring of movement we are able to create this entity, so we can keep an order of things.

it is all about order, because, had we been not aware of the entity of time, we would not be able to communicate, exchange messages, work and live life within the boundaries of dimensions.

even the notion of dimensions, is an implication of a single dimension, a singularity, where all dimensions must be included. and that's no more than 'oneness'. it means that even this dimension that we are now, is included as a very tiny slice and that the 2012, or what lies beyond, is another tiny slice of the singularity.

I am not aware of the Mayan calendar being wrong on anything it 'predicts'

the mayan calendar predicts nothing. it is like saying that our clocks predict that by 12 a.m. it will be night time.

ian lungold was correct about the many cycles of the calendar, but incorrect about what the calendar's effect to the events were. the calendar had nothing to do with the events, it had to do with cosmic energies and the potentials that they brought to life on the planet. how the people took advantage of these energies, these fluctuations of these cycles, it is a different story.

for example, some things that he predicted for dates that have passed, simply did not happen. therefore, the mayan calendar is not a psychic tool, but something with different significance.

2012, according to the mayan calendar, means that a "big" cycle, which includes all the small ones, comes to a closing. and this concludes all the big cycles and there is none left. so no one has a single clue what they meant about what happens next.

ascension, revelation, oneness, death, birth, black hole, white hole.. we have all these scenarios and people just pick one and take it personal. it is their personal choice what to pick.. will one of these happen? then that would mean, that some people will be lucky and the unlucky ones, will "burn to hell", or get sucked in a "black hole" or something.

but i am not worried. it is half stupid enough to talk about it already :)

I would like to believe that this is 'true', but i still have yet to see anyone who is 'unlocked' from this dimension enough to be totally free and connected with oneness, and truly creating whatever they desire. That to me is unlocked.

you are waiting for a miracle then. but don't you know that miracles happen when they are not expected?

There is no death ! We are energy, and that cannot be destroyed !

then why don't you slit your wrist?

There is no death !

it's not that i'm dying to know that, but death is what it is. if no one died, then no one would be able to have children and know how it is to be born, to give birth, to kill or to die.

But it doesnt make it all dismissable.

everything is acceptable. to me, it's simply the natural course of events. this will change as well. there are many changes to come, but it has always been like that, it has just been an illusion that we need to secure our borders in order to keep everything as we want them to be. there are no walls there.

But what i am saying is no matter how much we believe we are oneness, we are disconnected from it at this level of our 'reality' by our limited DNA.

since we know nothing of an 'unlimited' DNA, we can't say that our DNA is limited.

No, thoughts arent 3d, but even so, i could think and think and think the same thought (and believe it) and in this reality it would not manifest due to the 'rules' and constraints of this DNA reality we are in.

since your basic belief is that you are in a DNA prison of some kind, how will another belief override that? it is like pushing a running train to the opposite direction. conflicting beliefs create conflicting situations in our lives, in all levels.

so, if your basic belief is that you are a slave of your DNA, then you'd better start acting as one, because the belief that you can break free and the struggle, is going to create uncomfortable situations and disease.

and since you do believe, as you say, that you are in prison, may i ask who the warden is?

OK its a conditioned response, along with fear i suppose....but id like to see someone not let fear or paranoia register in their brains if a loaded gun was pointed at them, or they were being pursued by a group of murderers or something.

what are you talking about? since when someone running for his life is paranoid?

Emotions/feelings are what make us 'who we are'...what about compassion and love?...these things are hardwired into us, probably into our deepest soul levels...theres no disconnecting from that, especially at our 3d level of reality.
Who would want to disconnect from emotions? It would make a very boring person if they were totally un-emotional.
I have read that many people on the earth right now have no souls, although i am unsure if this is correct or not, but i have met many 'cold' people.
I doubt that a 'normal person' with a soul could disconnect from their emotions to the extent of being totally 'blank'

maybe you are not aware of the fact that you are experiencing emotions because you have a body, which is 'solid', which does not disappear, levitate and walk through walls?

you experience love, because you have a heart and an energy center there, sexual arousal in your genitals, because you have another vortex there, all connected to the brain.

you experience every emotion with the wholeness of your being, in and out. emotions maybe exist because of "souls", but are manifested because of bodies and bodies are minds.

and then you have consciousness. you are conscious of your body and your emotions. then you decide if they are 'negative', 'positive' or whatever and then you decide your reaction, or to let yourself express them.

for example, some people can't stand pain, others like to be in pain. so who is to say that pain is 'negative'? the final authority for that is you.

I agree, if you didn't have aids or any form of life threatening disease, and you believed you wouldn't die, then you wouldn't...but what i don't believe is if someone does get aids, and doesn't know its aids (example a person who doesn't live near any doctors and doesn't get checked out by anybody) if they don't believe they are going to die, they will still 'die' (go to another dimension), because the disease will physically kill them, belief or no belief.

and i know of cases where people were supposed to die in very short time, yet they recovered completely and now they are alive. and they were regarded as 'miracles'. so who is to decide who lives and who dies anyway?

It wouldn't necessarily mean it is advanced technology. For example, a solid person walking through a solid object, that would be super-human or super-natural, but technology couldn't change a persons 'energy' vibration to enable him to pass through another 'solid' object, due to his DNA and the level of his 'vibration' being so low in this 3rd dimension.
Even cloaking devices which make 'ufo's' (man made or otherwise) appear to dissapear, this is only an illusion of it dissapearing, and ufo's that actually leave our 'frequency perception' range, they haven't really dissappeared, our DNA and frequency reception will not allow us to see it any more, due to the fact that we have limited range (in my opinion we were 'manipulated' by whoever created our 'latest human form' to have limited perception range)

are you implying that the UFOs are made of DNA?

what makes you think that it is the DNA that is blocking our perception? what does DNA have to do with UFOs?

this is getting boring.. walk through walls. if that's what you wanna do, go live to the planet with the rizla houses, i don't know. or become a ghost or something. what would you possibly achieve if you could walk through walls? you wanna rob a bank or something? and how would you be able to hold stuff and wear clothes if you had a transcendent super human body?

i don't really get this. what does 'oneness' has to do with walls and walking through them? and why would a wall be needed if anyone could walk in and do whatever they like?

You've lost me there.
I've put no wall up..if a wall exists on a street, it exists on a street, collective consciousness states this fact.
If anyone could walk through it they would not be from this dense dimension.
If i could walk through it, i would not be from this dense dimension either. And i'm lost where you say 'you would make another wall to keep others coming in"
Obsession? ! It's an example of how we are locked into 3d DNA rules, and theres no getting away from it, belief or no belief.

it doesn't make any sense. but it is obvious why you are talking in terms of walls and walking through them all the time. it's your wall from the start.

If i 'knew' i could walk through a wall, would i still be able to do it? Consensus reality states otherwise...collective consciousness and 3d DNA rules will not permit it, whether i 'know' it or not.
I'm not saying "nothing is possible" from beliefs, i am saying there are rules and limits, and beliefs and 'knowing' cannot change these rules.

ok, get it straight. you are never ever ever going to walk through walls :rolleyes:

it is forbidden to you, by higher authority :)

It's about this thread "we're not all one yet" and we cannot truly create our own realities. That's all it's about.
I should have named the thread "we are disonnected from oneness" but it's still the same meaning.

sure! ok! lets create the other's realities, they always sound a lot better. they fuck us of course, but we are masochists enough. off we go to create more prisons and victims. j/k

Fair enough statement, but it still doesn't get around the 'rules' that limit us in this dimension.

they are rules that i have agreed with.

here is a rule: you have to keep on breathing. here, try to break that, let's see what you got.

I said "nobody is able to bypass this 3d dna body permanently", sleeping isn't permanent.

what is permanent?

I doubt there would be threats at higher dimensions, but who knows. And i've never heard of thoughts killing people.

really? here is one: "DIE" lol (hey, not you of course)

Have to disagree with you there. We are trapped and limited in a 3d DNA situation.

may i talk to your warden?

Have to disagree again...we are trapped !

you are trapped? well, how long do you plan to be this way?

Fair enough, but there is mountains of information out there about ascension/Mayan end time and the current increasing vibrations which are changing our bodies, DNA and our thinking.
Whether it's channeled or not, it's information that makes sense, and cannot be dismissed.

changes have been always happening, now maybe accelerating, maybe coming to a conclusion. but no one knows what's next. so whether you believe you are going to ascend, or go to hell or anything, makes no difference to me.

you are trapped and your destiny is to be free. so sit there and wait, maybe a messiah will come and free you from your DNA. and then maybe you will live. until then, you are virtually dead, since you are trapped. bad luck my friend.

[tru3]

the first step toward a genuine theory of consciousness is the realization that consciousness is not located in the organism. Rather, consciousness is a four-quadrant affair, and it exists, if it exists at all, distributed across all four quadrants, anchored equally in each. Neither consciousness, personality, individual agency, nor psychopathology can be located simply or solely in the individual organism. The subjective domain (Upper Left) is always already embedded in intersubjective (Lower Left), objective (Upper Right), and interobjective (Lower Right) realities, all of which are partly constitutive of subjective agency and its pathologies.

It is true that the Upper Left quadrant is the locus of consciousness as it appears in an individual, but that's the point: as it appears in an individual. Yet consciousness on the whole is anchored in, and distributed across, all of the quadrants -- intentional, behavioural, cultural, and social. If you `erase' any quadrant, they all disappear, because each is intrinsically necessary for the existence of the others.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1858/4quadrantskx5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.imprint.co.uk/Wilber.htm

if one is in this 3d world, as you say, 2012, then that's the most succinct explanation i could give you, from a deeper thinker than i. 'oneness' is a gem of perfection, but it is a multifaceted jewel.

and wilber would be the first to agree, i think, that whatever it is for you:

I agree, at the deepest of levels though, we are oneness, but at our level of 'reality' (the reality that our limited DNA lets us access) we are far from oneness...we are disconnected from it, so therefore we cannot be 'living' it.
If we were not disconnected from it like we are, we would all be capable of creating whatever we wanted (in positive terms) but like i said, this isn't happening yet.

than that's exactly the suchness, the precise quality and texture and taste of oneness, for you. i have theses types of thoughts crossing my mind all the time, 2012, and like b.d. said, it's the awareness of those thoughts that is the ground of oneness, from which the 'sense' or 'experience' of oneness arises. we're all that same Conscious Awareness, right here, right now. so it appears to me.

if you've got a couple of months to spare, pick up "sex, ecology and sprituality". damn near killed me, but it was worth it. :)

better yet, here's an essay on holonic theory:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/10/099.html

[bigus_dickus]

better yet, here's an essay on holonic theory:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/10/099.html

yeah, ken wilber has attempted a convergence of many ideas and philosophies as others have done and he seems to be successful with the holonic theory. however the holonic theory is no different than the CU theory (consciousness and "localized" consciousness called Consciousness Units) suggested by the "seth material" and the "ra material" and by other authors who have addressed these issues.

ken wilber pays a great deal of attention to the ideas of socrates, plato and plotinus and to how they "fit" together with the buddhist theories of the east. Alan Watts also explains the many forms of buddhism that exist, what each of them represents and what kind of "enlightenment", or "transcendence" of the physical world (body) they have to offer.

but literally everything and i mean everything, every one of these theories and philosophies can be unfolded the same way and doing so, they all converge to the same exact point, which is the self. even religions, all they have to deal with is the self. some do have to suggest a "higher" entity or authority, or God, but if you unfold the whole plot, it comes down to the self's relationship with that.

so, what "we are not at 'oneness' yet" means, is that our physical form doesn't allow us to think out of the box. but then again, how come we are here discussing it if we are not able to perceive it and how come does this concept comes up everywhere and becomes a necessity of thought in the long run? that's maybe because we really know it, because we are it, but our beliefs that we have grown up with don't contain this understanding.

maybe if we were already in 'oneness', we would be thirsty for individuality!

but in the end, you see, no matter what we think, what we believe, how we deal with it, what we want, this is a process that happens in the universe with its cycles. so one cycle is 'oneness', another is 'individuality', a "now you see me now you don't" game. in reality, there is nothing there.. it was you all along, a very powerful entity, so powerful that it can forget what or who it is.

[tru3]

but literally everything and i mean everything, every one of these theories and philosophies can be unfolded the same way and doing so, they all converge to the same exact point, which is the self. even religions, all they have to deal with is the self. some do have to suggest a "higher" entity or authority, or God, but if you unfold the whole plot, it comes down to the self's relationship with that.

god, guru, the Self, are the same thing- ramana maharshi. i agree with him.

so, what "we are not at 'oneness' yet" means, is that our physical form doesn't allow us to think out of the box. but then again, how come we are here discussing it if we are not able to perceive it and how come does this concept comes up everywhere and becomes a necessity of thought in the long run? that's maybe because we really know it, because we are it, but our beliefs that we have grown up with don't contain this understanding.

try explaining to a blind man the blue sky. i dare you. words fail.

maybe if we were already in 'oneness', we would be thirsty for individuality!

lol, maybe that's what happens at the 'other end' of the mayan calendar:

"jeez, we've been in oneness for 26,000 years...BOOOOORIIING!" :D

good post, b.d.

[tru3]

but literally everything and i mean everything, every one of these theories and philosophies can be unfolded the same way and doing so, they all converge to the same exact point, which is the self. even religions, all they have to deal with is the self. some do have to suggest a "higher" entity or authority, or God, but if you unfold the whole plot, it comes down to the self's relationship with that.

god, guru, the Self, are the same- ramana maharshi. i agree with him.

so, what "we are not at 'oneness' yet" means, is that our physical form doesn't allow us to think out of the box. but then again, how come we are here discussing it if we are not able to perceive it and how come does this concept comes up everywhere and becomes a necessity of thought in the long run? that's maybe because we really know it, because we are it, but our beliefs that we have grown up with don't contain this understanding.

try explaining to a blind man the blue sky. i dare you. words fail.

maybe if we were already in 'oneness', we would be thirsty for individuality!

lol, maybe that's what happens at the 'other end' of the mayan calendar:

"jeez, we've been in oneness for 26,000 years...BOOOOORIIING!" :D

good post, b.d.

[21_12_2012]

well, as you know, 'oneness' refers to a timeless dimension, or in other words in a dimension that is no subject to time. which means that all our past, present and future is included in just one of its moments, the eternal now.

you can't be contemplating 'oneness' and asking for connectivity of your awareness with it, if you are not aware of the basic principle, that all of existence is happening together in one moment.

Yes, i am aware of oneness, having 'been there' hundreds of times myself over the last 20 years using MDMA, LSD and psylocibin (a fact that i am not proud of, and do not recommend anybody to do either)

What i am pointing out in this thread is the fact that we are not anywhere near oneness in our normal 'waking' permanent existence (our daily lives)...whether we 'think' or 'believe' we are are not.

this means that 'oneness' IS before, IS now and IS after. which also means, there is no single moment, in which 'oneness' IS NOT. it is a matter of perception of a local consciousness, being conscious of a separate body, perceiving oneness as a separate entity, that 'oneness' does not seem to exist in its reality. we basically make these agreements before we show up in a world as manifest beings. so, to want to break these agreements, defies our purpose to begin with.

So, that paragraph basically means that no matter if oneness exists or not (which it does at the deepest of levels), we cannot connect with it in our 'normal daily lives' so therefore we cannot benefit from the existence of oneness either. We are nowhere near it due to being trapped in a 3d DNA situation, where our perception is but a tiny frequency range, and time exists (for everyone)....this cannot be changed either.

So you are now found in a realm of relativity, in which you exist only because of others and you can be conscious of yourself only because you can be conscious of others.

I'd say it was more a realm of 3D DNA reality, a tiny frequency range, a tiny perception of the 'allness'

how would it be if you were the only one that existed? i mean no other, no space, no time, no people, no animals, no planets, nothing. you wouldn't have anywhere to look at, anything to experience, anything to create.but you can be human, by being among humans and you are a human being, because you showed up as a human being, which means you agreed to play the human game.

But also, when we 'agreed' to play the human game, we may or may not have known that we would be in a DNA prison situation (which we all are)...a 'far from oneness' situation.

from another point of view, more 'mechanistic' you are nothing but water and dna. molecules that combine together and form a creature. and as that, you are one with all nature that is exactly as you.

We aren't 'one with nature'.
An example of this is dogs and cats who have a greater range of perception than we do, and probably many animals have to some extent extra sensory perceptions, which have been 'taken away' from us as humans....
(see...The Bible:- Let us go down and confuse their speech, so they may not understand one another).... We have been interfered with...our DNA....we have been 'dumbed down'....(see Michael Tsarions works for examples)

from another point of view, more 'esoteric', your identity is nothing but an illusion and it doesn't even exist. so, that means, that everyone else is the same thing, which is mere nothingness experiencing itself in worlds, therefore there can be no two nothingnesses. there can only be one nothingness, the being of no being, which is not a being, but it is 'oneness' as the world of the unmanifest.

At the deepest of levels yes, but we aren't 'living' anywhere near those deep levels...we are (and still will be even if we 'ascend') living at a DNA level of reality, which is imprisoning and restricting us, and placing 'rules' upon our perceptions and abilities.

there can be many points of view that it can be seen and it can also be seen as total separation, as a "me and you", or "us and them" situation, which is the most common among us.

It is a 'total separation' situation.
Fair enough, we may be able to 'get on someone else's wavelength'...think in similar ways etc..but at this level of reality that we all exist in, we are each of us 'imprisoned' and separated from each other, and from oneness on a permanent day-to-day basis..with the exception of sleeping and taking 'substances' which by-pass the DNA and allow us to perceive more of 'what's out there'

then, what can we make of all that? as far as i know, none of the above is an explanation. it all derives from the necessity of truth, but this necessity does not come from our need for truth, because a need means a lack and a lack means that someone or something is blocking our perception. but that is a general belief that our perceptions are blocked and that "we can do better".

We have been blocked. We have been 'dumbed down'. We can 'do' and 'have' better, and probably were A LOT better off before we were 'interfered with'.
The lack you speak of is a lack of 'expanded DNA'

oh well, time does not exist, so whatever time 2012 is, it doesn't exist also. why not now be an ascension time? where are we going to ascend to?

But time DOES exist as long as we are connected to this 'matrix' by our DNA (which we all are, no exceptions)...so therefore 2012 will in fact exist for all of us, whether we want to believe it or not.
Ascension=moving higher...to the next 'level' of the illusion...probably still another DNA illusion, but a 'better' illusion with more 'perception' and an upgraded DNA structure (which is currently changing due to the high vibrational energies coming into our solar system as we move through the galactic procession)

have our bodies ever ceased changing? right now billions of creatures go in and out of your body from all possible directions. our bodies are in constant change and exchange, all the time, no stop. we never stop breathing while we live, we never stop recycling energy in order to move. if we didn't belong in this balanced realm, we would be discarded as waste.

Our bodies have remained the same since we were 'created' into this form, unless you believe in 'evolution'.

i agree. since time does not exist, how can it end? time, as we know it, would 'end' if the universe suddenly stopped moving. which means everything stopped moving, which we now fantasize as time 'stopping'. what happens when time stops, everything freezes. time runs, everything moves. so time, has to do with movement and our measuring of movement we are able to create this entity, so we can keep an order of things.

But it also relates to our DNA, perception of time

it is all about order, because, had we been not aware of the entity of time, we would not be able to communicate, exchange messages, work and live life within the boundaries of dimensions.

But this also relates to our DNA, in which is 'stored' 'the matrix' (transmitted and received') on the consensus level also.

even the notion of dimensions, is an implication of a single dimension, a singularity, where all dimensions must be included. and that's no more than 'oneness'. it means that even this dimension that we are now, is included as a very tiny slice and that the 2012, or what lies beyond, is another tiny slice of the singularity.

It is, as you say, 'a very tiny slice' due to our DNA situation, which is only permitting us to 'perceive' and 'experience' a 'very tiny slice' of 'what there is'

the mayan calendar predicts nothing. it is like saying that our clocks predict that by 12 a.m. it will be night time.

It predicts the cycles of human consciousness.

ian lungold was correct about the many cycles of the calendar, but incorrect about what the calendar's effect to the events were. the calendar had nothing to do with the events, it had to do with cosmic energies and the potentials that they brought to life on the planet. how the people took advantage of these energies, these fluctuations of these cycles, it is a different story.

It relates to human changes, cosmic energies relate to human changes, especially DNA changes.
It probably all relates to the 100th monkey syndrome also, which would create change 'en-masse' for the population.

for example, some things that he predicted for dates that have passed, simply did not happen. therefore, the mayan calendar is not a psychic tool, but something with different significance.

Can you name me something which he predicted regarding the calendar that did not happen?
If so, maybe he interpreted the date wrongly, who's to say?

2012, according to the mayan calendar, means that a "big" cycle, which includes all the small ones, comes to a closing. and this concludes all the big cycles and there is none left. so no one has a single clue what they meant about what happens next.

So there is no reason to dismiss the idea that mass ascension is what the Mayans are predicting for the end date...the end of this current DNA 'prison'...(as many books/authors and channeled material is stating)

ascension, revelation, oneness, death, birth, black hole, white hole.. we have all these scenarios and people just pick one and take it personal. it is their personal choice what to pick.. will one of these happen? then that would mean, that some people will be lucky and the unlucky ones, will "burn to hell", or get sucked in a "black hole" or something.

You're speaking here as if our 'beliefs' will actually manifest.
Example...if 1/4 of the population believe they will ascend in 2012...and another 1/4 believe a comet will destroy earth...and another 1/4 believe Jesus will come and save them...and another 1/4 believe Santa Claus will take them away to never-never land, will all these 4 events happen? No.
It's not about belief, it's about what is actually going to happen to us as the galactic vibrations actually increase (which they are doing).
It isn't a myth that the vibrations are rising, and the sun/our solar system, and everything in it is changing because of it...it's a fact...

but i am not worried. it is half stupid enough to talk about it already :)

Maybe to you it's stupid.

you are waiting for a miracle then. but don't you know that miracles happen when they are not expected?

I'm not waiting for any miracles...i'm looking at information...and that includes:-
rising energy/vibrations, changes in our solar system (and everything in it), and even the earth's 'pulse' (heartrate) has risen over the last few decades (the schumann resonance)...also the Mayan Calendar...the many 'hidden' ancient meanings of various religions, and the many books regarding 2012.
That's not 'hoping for a miracle'...it's following information.

then why don't you slit your wrist?

Bit of a non-sensical question really.
I have accepted that i am trapped within this DNA prison, with the rules and restrictions it places upon me (and everybody else even though they are reluctant to accept it)
I have also realised that 'beliefs' and 'you create your own reality' has it's limits too..it's the people who DONT realise this that will be feeling like 'slitting their wrists' eventually ... not me :)

everything is acceptable. to me, it's simply the natural course of events. this will change as well. there are many changes to come, but it has always been like that, it has just been an illusion that we need to secure our borders in order to keep everything as we want them to be. there are no walls there.

Your/our/everyone's DNA is a wall that keeps us within this tiny frequency range of perception/experience.
I think Icke refers to it as 0.001% of what is actually 'out there'

I'd call that 'walled in' ...wouldn't you?

since we know nothing of an 'unlimited' DNA, we can't say that our DNA is limited.

We know that animals for one have a greater frequency perception range than we do...and extrasensory perception.
We also know that at some point our DNA has been 'tweaked' to make us slaves...we know we have been 'dumbed down'

since your basic belief is that you are in a DNA prison of some kind, how will another belief override that? it is like pushing a running train to the opposite direction. conflicting beliefs create conflicting situations in our lives, in all levels.

Like i have said, we are ALL in a DNA prison..(unless of course i am the only person here with such a tiny frequency range of perception and experience).
I could sit here til the cows come home believing that I am not 'locked into' this tiny perception range, but would it make a difference? Would it expand my DNA structure and allow me to perceive MORE than this 0.001% of what is 'out there'...NO..and neither would yours change either.
You said in one of your previous posts that things have changed for you but you will not tell me what they are...but i'd be willing to bet you still perceive...and experience...exactly the same amount of 'frequency range' that i do (namely 0.001%), and whatever reality you can create, is exactly the same amount of reality i can create using my beliefs.
This is because we all have the same DNA structure. It's as simple as that.

so, if your basic belief is that you are a slave of your DNA, then you'd better start acting as one, because the belief that you can break free and the struggle, is going to create uncomfortable situations and disease.

Not really...i have accepted that i am the same as everybody else who has the same DNA as me...it's the ones who don't want to accept it who will create discomfort and 'disease' for themselves, as they realise that they in fact cannot 'create whatever they like', and cannot experience 'oneness' in this DNA prison.

and since you do believe, as you say, that you are in prison, may i ask who the warden is?

OUR DNA.

what are you talking about? since when someone running for his life is paranoid?

Kind of another non-sensical question.
Wouldn't you be just a little bit paranoid if you were running for your life for some reason?

maybe you are not aware of the fact that you are experiencing emotions because you have a body, which is 'solid', which does not disappear, levitate and walk through walls?

Actually, we experience emotions in dream states, by-passing the physical body and the DNA.
We have an 'emotional body'
Are you trying to say that our 'soul' and our other bodies feel no emotion? Maybe yours doesn't, but mine certainly does.

you experience love, because you have a heart and an energy center there, sexual arousal in your genitals, because you have another vortex there, all connected to the brain.

So what happenes when you're dreaming/astral travelling, and you are not in your physical body, yet still experiencing these emotions?

you experience every emotion with the wholeness of your being, in and out. emotions maybe exist because of "souls", but are manifested because of bodies and bodies are minds.

So, as above, what happens when we are not in our bodies and experience these emotions? How do they manifest when we are OUT of our bodies?

and i know of cases where people were supposed to die in very short time, yet they recovered completely and now they are alive. and they were regarded as 'miracles'. so who is to decide who lives and who dies anyway?

Nobody can answer that question.

are you implying that the UFOs are made of DNA?

No, i am stating a fact that when UFO's 'cloak', all they are doing is creating a 'wall' around themselves which (to our limited DNA perception range) makes the UFO appear to have dissappeared. When someone sees a 'ghost' dissapear, or a UFO dissappear, all that is happening is that we cannot access it anymore with our limited DNA frequency perception.

what makes you think that it is the DNA that is blocking our perception? what does DNA have to do with UFOs?

Like i said, our DNA limits us to what we can perceive...namely...a tiny frequency range of perception...0.001% of what is 'out there' ...it's quite simple really.

this is getting boring..

There's me thinking we could have a civilised debate..ah well.

walk through walls. if that's what you wanna do,

But we can't do that...our DNA does not permit this !

go live to the planet with the rizla houses,

Unsure of what you mean here..sarcasm i expect...anyway, i gave up using 'substances' a long time ago now.

become a ghost or something. what would you possibly achieve if you could walk through walls?

I would have by-passed my DNA, and would probably be able to achieve all kinds of other stuff too..but...sadly...none of us have achieved this yet...or else we would be closer to oneness !

you wanna rob a bank or something?

Never thought of that ! Although why would I need money if i was living as a true reality-creating, multi-dimensional-accessing being ?!?!

and how would you be able to hold stuff and wear clothes if you had a transcendent super human body?

Simple, i would be a multi-dimensional being !

i don't really get this. what does 'oneness' has to do with walls and walking through them? and why would a wall be needed if anyone could walk in and do whatever they like?

OK...i will use another example instead of 'walking through walls'

Can you (or anybody else on the face of this planet) see, or hear, or perceive in any kind of way, MORE THAN the 0.001% (the tiny frequency range) of what is actually 'going on' right now in all the dimensions, and all the past, present and future?
If not, then you're as far from oneness as i am.

it doesn't make any sense. but it is obvious why you are talking in terms of walls and walking through them all the time. it's your wall from the start.

Actually...we're all walled-up...in a tiny frequency range...0.001% actually...you included....and David Icke....even David Copperfield !

ok, get it straight. you are never ever ever going to walk through walls :rolleyes:

And neither are you ! Whether you change your belief or not !
Not as long as we have this DNA.

it is forbidden to you, by higher authority :)

DNA actually !

here is a rule: you have to keep on breathing. here, try to break that, let's see what you got.

It is like what i have been saying all along, there are rules, no matter how hard you want to believe something is possible, and how much you think and believe that you can are 'oneness' and have the ability to create whatever you like...there are rules...and our DNA is a set of rules which cannot change unless DNA changes.

what is permanent?

Obviously it is our normal 'waking' state (ie. NOT ASLEEP IN BED..and not 'under the influence of mind-altering and DNA-by-passing substances)

really? here is one: "DIE" lol (hey, not you of course)

I'm not sure if you are serious that a single thought can kill a person. I doubt you were being serious.

may i talk to your warden?

It's the same warden as yours...DNA...simple really.

you are trapped? well, how long do you plan to be this way?

Coincidentally, it will be the EXACT same amount of time that you will be trapped ! (namely..until our DNA evolves) !

changes have been always happening, now maybe accelerating, maybe coming to a conclusion. but no one knows what's next. so whether you believe you are going to ascend, or go to hell or anything, makes no difference to me.

Like i have been saying...there are rules...beliefs do not necessarily create your reality, so the same goes for you:- your beliefs make no difference to me either.

you are trapped and your destiny is to be free. so sit there and wait, maybe a messiah will come and free you from your DNA. and then maybe you will live. until then, you are virtually dead, since you are trapped. bad luck my friend.

Actually, we are both trapped by our DNA, and we both have restrictions on what we can perceive and experience due to this limited DNA, the difference is that i have realised this, and you haven't !
Bad luck my friend !

There are, in fact, a lot of people on here claiming to be at 'oneness'...and 'not limited by beliefs'

Using statements like this at the bottom of every post:-

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

Yet, when i questioned that person about whether he had any moral beliefs, and any morals, and if they were 'imprisoning' him, he side-stepped the issue with answers such as "i believe all is possible". He would not give me a straight 'yes' or 'no' answer.

This is in fact a contradiction in terms, and hypocritical, because in reality we ALL have moral beliefs (morals) which prevent us and drive us to do certain things in life...therefore we are ALL imprisoned by our morals....a fact which nobody seems to want to admit on this forum, but a fact that i will openly admit.
Since when did spirituality and 'waking up' involve lying to one's self about 'right and wrong defining your beliefs' and denying the fact that we all have morals?

Also the following statements make no sense either:-

What is TRUTH ? . . . .THAT THE ONENESS IS ALL !!!
What is JOY ? . . . . . .ALL THAT THE ONENESS IS !!!
What is LOVE ? . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT IS ALL !!!
What is LIFE ? . . . . . ALL THAT IS THE ONENESS !!!
WHO AM I ? . . . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT ALL IS !!!

The truth is we're all the same, and we're all imprisoned by our DNA, AND by our morals...whether we refuse to accept it or not.
Oneness is far far away, so why pretend it isn't ?

[bigus_dickus]

Yes, i am aware of oneness, having 'been there' hundreds of times myself over the last 20 years using MDMA, LSD and psylocibin (a fact that i am not proud of, and do not recommend anybody to do either)

What i am pointing out in this thread is the fact that we are not anywhere near oneness in our normal 'waking' permanent existence (our daily lives)...whether we 'think' or 'believe' we are are not.

of course, i know what you are talking about. basically, this is not a debate, it is a friendly discussion, because we are saying the same thing, but with different perspective. it's the most classic difference and that's what i am pointing out. i think i wrote it from the start, but i don't remember after all this text.. the situation we are in, is one. which means that, we are both here and now, in this particular one instance of the space-time or universe. the difference is that there is never one standard perspective for all. there is only one perspective and that is your perspective, but it happens to differ from all others. but all other perspectives added together, make the whole collective perspective. which means that the truth of the perspective, must lie in the sum total of the perspective of the collective consciousness of human minds.

so, there is another "higher" perspective, that is not to be experienced by anyone, but it is theoretical and it is supposed to be the perspective of humanity, in which we all are included right here and now.

and if i suppose that i don't know and don't believe anything, by following this thought, i can arrive to this theoretical form of 'one mind' that i would better call it than 'oneness', with simple logic. of course, it wouldn't mean much, but does it really?

so, you are saying that you have experienced 'oneness' using drugs. and i suppose you could walk through walls in this other reality and do whatever you like and levitate and stuff. but you didn't go anywhere, you were right there and you had to "come back", because what would have happened if you didn't?

and having taken those drugs and experienced that, you believe that you can make this state permanent and never return to your body, or leave it behind. and then you have the other guys, the 'new age' type, who talk about 'oneness' and heaven on earth and a network of love and light and stuff like that and that kind of 'resonates' with that drugged state, so you think that this is what they are talking about.

but, what if they don't really know what they are talking about? i have no need to believe them, i have no need to believe anyone. and i also have no need for drugs, although i have taken, but not hallucinogens.

so basically, what you are saying is true, we are never going to be in that state of 'oneness', because if you view it that way, you perceive your own body to be a prison. that's how fucked up these drugs are, all drugs not only hallucinogens. they make you 'high' and after that, everything else seems 'low'. but that of course is not true, to believe that this is the ultimate truth, is suicide.

and the net is full with ascending prophets who encourage you to sit down and meditate all the time. life is out there, it is right here, we have only one life, one chance to make it great or small, one choice.

so, i am telling you, i don't believe any of that. i will question everything, even my own self. i don't write to prove knowledge, because i don't know shit. but, people who claim that they know, must provide answers to my questions, even if they are 'childish' for them.

So, that paragraph basically means that no matter if oneness exists or not (which it does at the deepest of levels), we cannot connect with it in our 'normal daily lives' so therefore we cannot benefit from the existence of oneness either. We are nowhere near it due to being trapped in a 3d DNA situation, where our perception is but a tiny frequency range, and time exists (for everyone)....this cannot be changed either.

there is nothing to benefit from, i am not talking about a future state, where we are the 'greys', or the 'pleiadians' on another planet, playing their role, possessing superior technology, possibly herding intelligent species of this other planet and using them.

or some state where all dreams come true instantly, because that's what you are talking about. a state where you can be aware of everything in the cosmos, become everything you want, experience everything to the maximum, always remember who you are, be totally free of any kind of limit, even DNA systems and stuff like that.

all the above, is nothing more than fantasy. our imagination makes it alone. what is the benefit to believe that i am imprisoned and that i am a victim of a world of forms, while if i wasn't, i should be behaving like a super hero, shape shifting and manipulating everything? this is cool when we see it in the movies, but since our reality of life is different, we either live with it, or die. there are billions of ways to die, one way to live. yet, we all die.. go figure.

I'd say it was more a realm of 3D DNA reality, a tiny frequency range, a tiny perception of the 'allness'

that makes you a separate being of form inside a huge variety. the perception of the 'allness' lies in the mind. your brain is the center were all signals and stimuli go to be interpreted.

but, if you have heard of "epigenetics", there are some experiments that prove, that the DNA does not control the biology of an organism, rather the DNA is just a code that is being conducted and it doesn't have its own behavior.

but, conducted by who? and here the experiments showed that the environment is what conducts the codes. and then, what makes the environment? this question remains unanswered.. some people believe that the mind makes the environment according to the response of the beliefs that are "hard wired" in the brain, so everything is being conducted with a hierarchy, with the "top" being the strongest beliefs that one has.

thus, it now seems as an interactive system and not only that, also a "holistic" system, because, to come to think about what we believe, our basic level truths, we all share them. we don't have unique things of those, we exchange them, transform them, contradict them, debate them, add new stuff in them, even change them or remove them completely. therefore, we are all one in this very simple and basic way, the way that we verbally communicate.

that way, we have built a theoretical noosphere, a non existent sphere of ideas. some people believe that such thing exists and that we are building a soul of some sort, that is all intelligent and wise. and has no body but all our bodies. i don't disagree, because as individual human minds, each one of us is a unique 'neuron' in a huge scaled virtual brain. we behave like the actual neurons in our own brains, they make relationships, friendly, enemy, even love relationships. that's how we think and that's what happens when we think and when they say that "we create reality", they are talking about something simple as this and nothing magic and supernatural.

that means, that if humanity got wiped out right at this moment and there was only one human being left on the planet, maybe we would all be that one human being in an instant.

We aren't 'one with nature'.
An example of this is dogs and cats who have a greater range of perception than we do, and probably many animals have to some extent extra sensory perceptions, which have been 'taken away' from us as humans....
(see...The Bible:- Let us go down and confuse their speech, so they may not understand one another).... We have been interfered with...our DNA....we have been 'dumbed down'....(see Michael Tsarions works for examples)

ok and how do you know this? why should i believe that once i was a magician and now i am not because someone fiddled with my DNA? because of the bible, or Tsarion? please..

At the deepest of levels yes, but we aren't 'living' anywhere near those deep levels...we are (and still will be even if we 'ascend') living at a DNA level of reality, which is imprisoning and restricting us, and placing 'rules' upon our perceptions and abilities.

yes because those 'deep' levels is when we are dead. and i mean dead in the sense that, we don't occupy a body, we don't go by its rules and limitations that it has in a balanced system. if you unbalance that body, there are consequences, and the same happens with nature.

the 'ascension' you are talking about, is when even the last one of us is dead. or else, tell me where all that came from.

We have been blocked. We have been 'dumbed down'. We can 'do' and 'have' better, and probably were A LOT better off before we were 'interfered with'.
The lack you speak of is a lack of 'expanded DNA'

ok, then tell me what an expanded DNA looks like. what does it do, how does it behave, how does it evolve and replicate, what does it produce?

and who have we been blocked by and dumbed down? were you clever in another past lifetime? do you remember this?

But time DOES exist as long as we are connected to this 'matrix' by our DNA (which we all are, no exceptions)...so therefore 2012 will in fact exist for all of us, whether we want to believe it or not.

yes, of course, we all know how to count. it does exist yes, only in our minds though.

Ascension=moving higher...to the next 'level' of the illusion...probably still another DNA illusion, but a 'better' illusion with more 'perception' and an upgraded DNA structure (which is currently changing due to the high vibrational energies coming into our solar system as we move through the galactic procession)

all you have to do, is stick your finger in the wall outlet and you will experience it instantly. seriously.

you want to tell me that all this stuff is going to happen in 2012 instantly?

Our bodies have remained the same since we were 'created' into this form, unless you believe in 'evolution'.

our bodies have never remained the same. ask your parents for pictures of you when you were a baby and see for yourself.

they constantly change, to say that they don't is complete disassociation with reality.

But it also relates to our DNA, perception of time

But this also relates to our DNA, in which is 'stored' 'the matrix' (transmitted and received') on the consensus level also.

It is, as you say, 'a very tiny slice' due to our DNA situation, which is only permitting us to 'perceive' and 'experience' a 'very tiny slice' of 'what there is'

that could be true, if the genes were the masters of the system, but they aren't. so your whole DNA prison theory doesn't have credibility. DNA is not understood by the scientists who research it, they don't even know the half of it and you claim that you know all this stuff?

but, of course, if your sources are these 'new age' books. channeled information.. sorry, but i am not buying it.

they would not be talking about DNA, if scientists haven't discovered it and named it as such. and then they will bring up the caduceus and other symbols and connect them to DNA and make whole stories.

if you believe them, fine. but that's where the problem begins.. what we believe is the basis of what we become.

It predicts the cycles of human consciousness.

like you know what that is?

It relates to human changes, cosmic energies relate to human changes, especially DNA changes.
It probably all relates to the 100th monkey syndrome also, which would create change 'en-masse' for the population.

yes, but this is observable evidence and not a cause and effect. it just makes sense and seems to fit in the calendar, so there must be some correlation or even mirroring between cosmic, planetary and self changes.

Can you name me something which he predicted regarding the calendar that did not happen?
If so, maybe he interpreted the date wrongly, who's to say?

i think he said WW3 in the end of 2005.

but it doesn't matter. no calendar makes things happen. if it did, then our destiny is to die altogether in 2012, because that's what the calendar "predicts" in the first place. then what this death would mean, nobody would be able to know. so they start making stories about second comings, because hope must live and die last. we must die before her..

So there is no reason to dismiss the idea that mass ascension is what the Mayans are predicting for the end date...the end of this current DNA 'prison'...(as many books/authors and channeled material is stating)

and there is no reason to believe it either. i don't dismiss it, i take it into consideration, question it and research it. and i spot the scam and when i do, i expose it. right now, i don't know it is a scam or not.

why shouldn't i believe the church then, that says that christ is coming back and that if we are good we are going to heaven? it looks much better to me than that ascension thing. at last, we will know god..

You're speaking here as if our 'beliefs' will actually manifest.
Example...if 1/4 of the population believe they will ascend in 2012...and another 1/4 believe a comet will destroy earth...and another 1/4 believe Jesus will come and save them...and another 1/4 believe Santa Claus will take them away to never-never land, will all these 4 events happen? No.
It's not about belief, it's about what is actually going to happen to us as the galactic vibrations actually increase (which they are doing).
It isn't a myth that the vibrations are rising, and the sun/our solar system, and everything in it is changing because of it...it's a fact...

yes, but the problem is that nobody knows what and why it is happening. how do you know what ascension is? how do you know that you are not ascended already?

what if everything just blows up and no ascension happens, we just fly through a black hole and get spit out of a white hole with a new configuration and start all over?

and even if we ascend to a higher dimension, we will still have to deal with our baggage. what i am suggesting is to drop that baggage now and you are ready for this ascension any time. i know you are saying the same thing, but either way, it has nothing to do with the ever present 'oneness'. DNA will still be there because it is multidimensional too.

Maybe to you it's stupid.

yes it is. self sarcasm. you take it too seriously, i see.

Bit of a non-sensical question really.
I have accepted that i am trapped within this DNA prison, with the rules and restrictions it places upon me (and everybody else even though they are reluctant to accept it)
I have also realised that 'beliefs' and 'you create your own reality' has it's limits too..it's the people who DONT realise this that will be feeling like 'slitting their wrists' eventually ... not me :)

i asked, because you say that what is preventing you to live your life fully and do what you desire and feel complete and even happy, is this body, your DNA, your mind all-in-all.
and i asked the logical question. why don't you leave then? are you scared of something?

Your/our/everyone's DNA is a wall that keeps us within this tiny frequency range of perception/experience.
I think Icke refers to it as 0.001% of what is actually 'out there'

I'd call that 'walled in' ...wouldn't you?

i assure you that the subconscious mind records the 100% of what is happening. your conscious does not need that information, but it gets regular feedback. i don't called it 'walled in', i call it 'misconception'.

We know that animals for one have a greater frequency perception range than we do...and extrasensory perception.
We also know that at some point our DNA has been 'tweaked' to make us slaves...we know we have been 'dumbed down'

the animals have the physical characteristics that they need in order to survive and so do we. we don't need more in order to live, we live fine with what we got, like animals do.

the hawk needs the sharp vision, so he can spot little animals from a mile's distance. humans don't need that sharpness. if we had it, we would not be able to watch television or the movies.. or our reflections in the mirror.

that's why we don't have tails, feathers, claws, scales and a bunch of other stuff :rolleyes:

Like i have said, we are ALL in a DNA prison..(unless of course i am the only person here with such a tiny frequency range of perception and experience).
I could sit here til the cows come home believing that I am not 'locked into' this tiny perception range, but would it make a difference? Would it expand my DNA structure and allow me to perceive MORE than this 0.001% of what is 'out there'...NO..and neither would yours change either.
You said in one of your previous posts that things have changed for you but you will not tell me what they are...but i'd be willing to bet you still perceive...and experience...exactly the same amount of 'frequency range' that i do (namely 0.001%), and whatever reality you can create, is exactly the same amount of reality i can create using my beliefs.
This is because we all have the same DNA structure. It's as simple as that.

yes, because you are not becoming a super hero. not yet. and you are not going to become one on this planet, so no matter how cool the movies look, we'd better forget them, because supermen and spidermen and wonder women exist only in the movies.

then again, if you feel like in prison because you are not a super hero type human, it is your choice, i respect it, but allow me not to feel this way myself. i have done it and it is not so productive, having a free mind is much better. and that's only my personal opinion, from experience.

OUR DNA.

our DNA is the warden? i thought it was the prison.

Kind of another non-sensical question.
Wouldn't you be just a little bit paranoid if you were running for your life for some reason?

not for some reason, for my life. you bet your ass i would be totally sane if i did :rolleyes:

Actually, we experience emotions in dream states, by-passing the physical body and the DNA.

did you just make that up?

We have an 'emotional body'
Are you trying to say that our 'soul' and our other bodies feel no emotion? Maybe yours doesn't, but mine certainly does.

ok. how does your soul feel the emotions?

So what happenes when you're dreaming/astral travelling, and you are not in your physical body, yet still experiencing these emotions?

you are always in the body. your consciousness is not, but your awareness is. you experience everything with the awareness of your body, but with alternate imagery from the mind.

So, as above, what happens when we are not in our bodies and experience these emotions? How do they manifest when we are OUT of our bodies?

we don't experience them. we are them.. the emotions. in our wholeness. and when we are them while conscious in body, we experience what we are with our body..

No, i am stating a fact that when UFO's 'cloak', all they are doing is creating a 'wall' around themselves which (to our limited DNA perception range) makes the UFO appear to have dissappeared. When someone sees a 'ghost' dissapear, or a UFO dissappear, all that is happening is that we cannot access it anymore with our limited DNA frequency perception.

where does your UFO technology information come from?

how do you know what a UFO does when it disappears? i can find you other explanations that don't have to do with DNA and limited perceptions.

Like i said, our DNA limits us to what we can perceive...namely...a tiny frequency range of perception...0.001% of what is 'out there' ...it's quite simple really.

like i said, it is scientific fact that our subconscious can perceive everything and this can be proven with hypnosis.

maybe you don't realize why we perceive that low percentage...

the reason is, because our minds are mostly focused to a single point, a single task. everything else is taken care of unconsciously.

if you were to perceive everything, your consciousness would not be able to relate to any human being or animal of this planet. so it is not really a trap, but a convention.

There's me thinking we could have a civilised debate..ah well.

no humor then. i'll be serious from now on. not my style though.

Simple, i would be a multi-dimensional being !

so, you are a 3 dimensional being right now huh. interesting..

but of course you are.

Can you (or anybody else on the face of this planet) see, or hear, or perceive in any kind of way, MORE THAN the 0.001% (the tiny frequency range) of what is actually 'going on' right now in all the dimensions, and all the past, present and future?
If not, then you're as far from oneness as i am.

yes. everyone does. yes i am, apparently. :)

Actually...we're all walled-up...in a tiny frequency range...0.001% actually...you included....and David Icke....even David Copperfield !

it's a miracle i can hear music in that narrow range. it really is!

I'm not sure if you are serious that a single thought can kill a person. I doubt you were being serious.

not in this dimension.

It's the same warden as yours...DNA...simple really.

since i am not in prison, i have no warden. thanks, but i really don't want or need one.

Like i have been saying...there are rules...beliefs do not necessarily create your reality, so the same goes for you:- your beliefs make no difference to me either.

who creates your reality? your DNA? is that it? and this DNA is self generated somehow?

Using statements like this at the bottom of every post:-

WHEN PAIRED OPPOSITES DEFINE YOUR BELIEFS, YOUR BELIEFS WILL IMPRISON YOU.

Yet, when i questioned that person about whether he had any moral beliefs, and any morals, and if they were 'imprisoning' him, he side-stepped the issue with answers such as "i believe all is possible". He would not give me a straight 'yes' or 'no' answer.

This is in fact a contradiction in terms, and hypocritical, because in reality we ALL have moral beliefs (morals) which prevent us and drive us to do certain things in life...therefore we are ALL imprisoned by our morals....a fact which nobody seems to want to admit on this forum, but a fact that i will openly admit.
Since when did spirituality and 'waking up' involve lying to one's self about 'right and wrong defining your beliefs' and denying the fact that we all have morals?

Also the following statements make no sense either:-

What is TRUTH ? . . . .THAT THE ONENESS IS ALL !!!
What is JOY ? . . . . . .ALL THAT THE ONENESS IS !!!
What is LOVE ? . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT IS ALL !!!
What is LIFE ? . . . . . ALL THAT IS THE ONENESS !!!
WHO AM I ? . . . . . . .THE ONENESS THAT ALL IS !!!

The truth is we're all the same, and we're all imprisoned by our DNA, AND by our morals...whether we refuse to accept it or not.
Oneness is far far away, so why pretend it isn't ?

i haven't talked about morals yet. it is an interesting discussion. and i am not that other person who you are quoting, so i can't speak for them.

our morals are not prison. our morals represent free will. it is a big discussion and i don't have much time right now to analyze that in the same post.

oneness and whether we are it or not, or whether we can use it or not, has nothing to do with morals and rules that we make. we would never be able to create anything and progress in anything if we didn't have morals. yet, morals got so contradicting and confusing, not because of religious beliefs, but by manipulating these beliefs for self benefit. big discussion...

[21_12_2012]

of course, i know what you are talking about. basically, this is not a debate, it is a friendly discussion, because we are saying the same thing, but with different perspective. it's the most classic difference and that's what i am pointing out. i think i wrote it from the start, but i don't remember after all this text.. the situation we are in, is one. which means that, we are both here and now, in this particular one instance of the space-time or universe. the difference is that there is never one standard perspective for all. there is only one perspective and that is your perspective, but it happens to differ from all others. but all other perspectives added together, make the whole collective perspective. which means that the truth of the perspective, must lie in the sum total of the perspective of the collective consciousness of human minds.

haha, i like the way that's worded anyway, sounds good to me.

so, there is another "higher" perspective, that is not to be experienced by anyone, but it is theoretical and it is supposed to be the perspective of humanity, in which we all are included right here and now.

and if i suppose that i don't know and don't believe anything, by following this thought, i can arrive to this theoretical form of 'one mind' that i would better call it than 'oneness', with simple logic. of course, it wouldn't mean much, but does it really?

I see what you're saying, our idea of oneness is different, and i suppose everybody's idea of oneness is different.

so, you are saying that you have experienced 'oneness' using drugs. and i suppose you could walk through walls in this other reality and do whatever you like and levitate and stuff. but you didn't go anywhere, you were right there and you had to "come back", because what would have happened if you didn't?

Well, that kind of oneness (using drugs) is still not 'true' oneness due to the fact that the DNA can not be bypassed fully, even on ayahuasca. As David Icke states during his ayahuasca experiences, he could still feel the ground he was lying on, and see stuff around him etc, whereas if he had bypassed DNA surely he would be able to pass through 'solid' objects.
One experience i have had with 4 friends was being able to 'see through' our hands as we held them up to the sky, and that was as far as i ever got at 'by-passing DNA', and that was using psylocibin.
And, like you said, if we hadnt have 'come back' we would probably have 'died' but who knows !
I did actually 'die' once for about 10 or 20 seconds on MDMA, and i stopped breathing, i don't know if my heart stopped or not, my hearing disappeared, and everything i could see went into a small dot and disappeared, and i think i must have left my body, but luckily i came round again. It was not an unpleasant experience either, but i would not like to be in that situation again.

and having taken those drugs and experienced that, you believe that you can make this state permanent and never return to your body, or leave it behind.

No, it was never like that for me, i knew that drugs only showed you a glimpse of what the 'other levels' of reality are like. I knew it wasn't possible to reach them without drugs, so i wasn't 'disappointed' or anything about 'normal life' (in this DNA reality)

and then you have the other guys, the 'new age' type, who talk about 'oneness' and heaven on earth and a network of love and light and stuff like that and that kind of 'resonates' with that drugged state, so you think that this is what they are talking about.

It does resonate actually, it's all about energy and how love energy is the highest form of energy, and some drugs (especially MDMA) cause this energy to flow in abundance, and connect you to its source (again, i would not advise anybody to try it though, because it is all adulterated with chemicals, hardly ever pure)

but, what if they don't really know what they are talking about? i have no need to believe them, i have no need to believe anyone. and i also have no need for drugs, although i have taken, but not hallucinogens.

Fair enough statement. But once you've been to the other levels many times, you 'know' they're for 'real'. I suppose people have reached these levels without drugs, maybe deep meditation (which i do from time to time).
I find it easy to 'imagine myself' at those levels i have reached, but not to actually experience the feelings and the visuals i had when i was actually on the drugs, but yes i have vivid memories of it all.

so basically, what you are saying is true, we are never going to be in that state of 'oneness', because if you view it that way, you perceive your own body to be a prison.

The body is a prison. And i would not have known it if i had not visited the other 'levels' on drugs. The same as David Icke wanted to visit the other levels, which he did, on ayahuasca.

that's how fucked up these drugs are, all drugs not only hallucinogens. they make you 'high' and after that, everything else seems 'low'.

But that's not a permanent state of mind. All things have downers even caffeine, but i feel better now than i ever felt when i was taking drugs years ago. And even when i was taking drugs, the downers would only last a few days at the most, then back to normal.

but that of course is not true, to believe that this is the ultimate truth, is suicide.

I know, but like i said above, i did not think like that, and i did not look at life in that way. After a few days i was back to normal again.

and the net is full with ascending prophets who encourage you to sit down and meditate all the time. life is out there, it is right here, we have only one life, one chance to make it great or small, one choice.

I believe we live many lifetimes, and have lived many lifetimes before this one. In fact i have had 100% proof that there is life after death.

so, i am telling you, i don't believe any of that. i will question everything, even my own self. i don't write to prove knowledge, because i don't know shit. but, people who claim that they know, must provide answers to my questions, even if they are 'childish' for them.

Fair enough statement.

there is nothing to benefit from, i am not talking about a future state, where we are the 'greys', or the 'pleiadians' on another planet, playing their role, possessing superior technology, possibly herding intelligent species of this other planet and using them.

or some state where all dreams come true instantly, because that's what you are talking about. a state where you can be aware of everything in the cosmos, become everything you want, experience everything to the maximum, always remember who you are, be totally free of any kind of limit, even DNA systems and stuff like that.

Well, in my opinion, this state would be as 'high' up the 'levels' as we could go. I believe we ascend up levels as we evolve, eventually going back to the 'source' (some call it God)

all the above, is nothing more than fantasy. our imagination makes it alone. what is the benefit to believe that i am imprisoned and that i am a victim of a world of forms, while if i wasn't, i should be behaving like a super hero, shape shifting and manipulating everything?

Well, the benefit for me is that it stops me from believing stuff like 'i can create anything'...and 'all is possible'...because i can't create 'anything i want'...and 'all' is not possible...and i think believing it is is not beneficial to anybody.

this is cool when we see it in the movies, but since our reality of life is different, we either live with it, or die. there are billions of ways to die, one way to live. yet, we all die.. go figure.

I would say there are billions of ways to live myself, but pretending to myself that 'all is possible' and 'i can do anything' are not ways i choose to live.

that makes you a separate being of form inside a huge variety. the perception of the 'allness' lies in the mind. your brain is the center were all signals and stimuli go to be interpreted.

The 'soul' perceives things also. Not just the electrical brain/mind.

but, if you have heard of "epigenetics", there are some experiments that prove, that the DNA does not control the biology of an organism, rather the DNA is just a code that is being conducted and it doesn't have its own behavior.

but, conducted by who? and here the experiments showed that the environment is what conducts the codes. and then, what makes the environment? this question remains unanswered.. some people believe that the mind makes the environment according to the response of the beliefs that are "hard wired" in the brain, so everything is being conducted with a hierarchy, with the "top" being the strongest beliefs that one has.

Well, i dont know if you believe in reptilians, and their ability to move between their dimension (void) and this dimension, but i do believe it having watched CRedo Mutwas dvds with Icke, and Arizona Wilders videos, i have no reason to doubt these people whatsoever...anyway, hybrid reptilians (such as royalty etc) interbreed for a reason, and that reason must be to keep the DNA pure...and that indicates to me that their DNA enables them to 1)shapeshift and 2) move between dimensions...so that also indicates to me that they have more advanced DNA than we have, yet they appear human to us...so our 'limited' DNA structure must have been altered at some stage to prevent us from doing the same as they can (because they appear human just like we do)

thus, it now seems as an interactive system and not only that, also a "holistic" system, because, to come to think about what we believe, our basic level truths, we all share them. we don't have unique things of those, we exchange them, transform them, contradict them, debate them, add new stuff in them, even change them or remove them completely. therefore, we are all one in this very simple and basic way, the way that we verbally communicate.

I agree with that statement.

that way, we have built a theoretical noosphere, a non existent sphere of ideas. some people believe that such thing exists and that we are building a soul of some sort, that is all intelligent and wise. and has no body but all our bodies. i don't disagree, because as individual human minds, each one of us is a unique 'neuron' in a huge scaled virtual brain. we behave like the actual neurons in our own brains, they make relationships, friendly, enemy, even love relationships. that's how we think and that's what happens when we think and when they say that "we create reality", they are talking about something simple as this and nothing magic and supernatural.

I also agree with this.but i believe there are limits to 'we create our own reality', and these limits relate to our DNA.

that means, that if humanity got wiped out right at this moment and there was only one human being left on the planet, maybe we would all be that one human being in an instant.

I don't think anybody could ever know if that would be true or not !

ok and how do you know this? why should i believe that once i was a magician and now i am not because someone fiddled with my DNA? because of the bible, or Tsarion? please..

The bible has lots of hidden meaning, even though it is coded/twisted, but basically it states that there were experiments in the garden of eden, and the story of Enki and Enlil (i think thats who they were anyway), and we were made as slaves to mine gold for the annunaki, it makes perfect sense to me that a 'slave' would have to have its DNA 'dumbed down' in order to be 'slavelike' compared to the 'gods' who created us, otherwise we would 'suss them out' and rebel and overcome them.

yes because those 'deep' levels is when we are dead. and i mean dead in the sense that, we don't occupy a body, we don't go by its rules and limitations that it has in a balanced system. if you unbalance that body, there are consequences, and the same happens with nature.

Even when we're 'dead' we are still not at oneness, the spirit world is stil part of the matrix but with a different type of DNA connecting us to it.

the 'ascension' you are talking about, is when even the last one of us is dead. or else, tell me where all that came from.

Ascension doesn't mean 'death', it means to move upwards..to ascend..like in a lift(elevator)...if a person's body changed enough to a higher vibration to allow that person to 'live' in another higher dimension without dying, then that is ascension.

ok, then tell me what an expanded DNA looks like. what does it do, how does it behave, how does it evolve and replicate, what does it produce?

From what i have studied, we used to have 12 strand DNA, and we now have 2 strand...and we will be returning to the 12 strand DNA in order for ascension to take place and allow us access to higher dimensions.

and who have we been blocked by and dumbed down? were you clever in another past lifetime? do you remember this?

The 'gods' who made us into slaves would be the ones who 'dumbed us down'
Apparently we have been created by several types of beings...loving beings and not-so-loving beings.
The loving beings created us first (which explains the 'missing link' in science where we went from apes to neanderthals and then to our current human form). We had the 12 strand DNA originally, but then the not-so-loving beings made us into 2 strand slaves.
I do not know who or what i was in previous lifetimes, but i have always had the feeling that i am limited in this lifetime, and as a teenager i thought about it a lot and often was frustrated because i knew something was missing from us, and still do 'know' this.

yes, of course, we all know how to count. it does exist yes, only in our minds though.

But it is in our DNA, in our 'reality'.

you want to tell me that all this stuff is going to happen in 2012 instantly?

No, it's happening progressively. As more of this high vibrational photonic energy hits our solar system and our bodies, it is slowly slowly changing our DNA structure.

our bodies have never remained the same. ask your parents for pictures of you when you were a baby and see for yourself.

I mean, we have not 'evolved' into a 'higher form of human' since we were created into this one, only consciousness has evolved.

that could be true, if the genes were the masters of the system, but they aren't. so your whole DNA prison theory doesn't have credibility. DNA is not understood by the scientists who research it, they don't even know the half of it and you claim that you know all this stuff?

I dont claim to know all this stuff, but what i do claim to know is that our consciousness is evolving, and our DNA is evolving, and time is speeding up for everybody, this is because our consciousness is evolving.

but, of course, if your sources are these 'new age' books. channeled information.. sorry, but i am not buying it.

You don't have to buy anything, but the facts still remain that time is speeding up (our perception of time should i say) and our consciousness is evolving at an ever increasing rate as we near 2012.

they would not be talking about DNA, if scientists haven't discovered it and named it as such. and then they will bring up the caduceus and other symbols and connect them to DNA and make whole stories.

Science is wayyyy behind and science does not go beyond what is 'provable' so science will come up with limited statements and refuse to go into any kind of 'spiritual' research. Science is sceptical.

if you believe them, fine. but that's where the problem begins.. what we believe is the basis of what we become.

If you want to close yourself off from chanelled material it's up to you, but like i say, the facts remain that time is indeed speeding up, and our solar system and everything within it, including our bodies and our consciousness, are indeed evolving along with it at an ever increasing rate as we approach 2012, whether you want to believe that or not.

like you know what that is?

I just explained above that i do know what evolving consciouness is, and the cycles are predicted on the Mayan calendar for one.

yes, but this is observable evidence and not a cause and effect. it just makes sense and seems to fit in the calendar, so there must be some correlation or even mirroring between cosmic, planetary and self changes.

That's right, there is correlation/mirroring between cosmic planetary and self changes (evolution of consciousness and DNA)

i think he said WW3 in the end of 2005.

Well, that's not wrong is it, world war 3 started in 2003 when USA invavded Iraq.

but it doesn't matter. no calendar makes things happen. if it did, then our destiny is to die altogether in 2012,

Nobody is saying it makes things happen, it is just a record of future events and cycles of evolving consciouness. And why would 2012 mean death? Can it not just mean ascension? A new beginning? An end of the current 'time' (because time, as you know, is collapsing)

because that's what the calendar "predicts" in the first place. then what this death would mean, nobody would be able to know. so they start making stories about second comings, because hope must live and die last. we must die before her..

The 'messiah' symbolism just relates to the positive vibrations overcoming the end of this giant cycle..ascension..., which is ending in negativity due to the 'powers that be'

and there is no reason to believe it either. i don't dismiss it, i take it into consideration, question it and research it. and i spot the scam and when i do, i expose it. right now, i don't know it is a scam or not.

You said earlier you are 'not buying it'...or at least not 'buying' anything that maybe channeled.

why shouldn't i believe the church then, that says that christ is coming back and that if we are good we are going to heaven?

Because for one, it isn't a message that is echoed throughout many ancient cultures but the evolution of consciousness and the 2012 end date is.

it looks much better to me than that ascension thing. at last, we will know god..

It looks like pure illuminati control of the masses to me (religion)

yes, but the problem is that nobody knows what and why it is happening. how do you know what ascension is? how do you know that you are not ascended already?

From my studies, i believe higher beings exist (angels, archangels etc) and there are definately higher dimensions than this 3rd dimension...the reptilians reside in one just above ours in a 'void'...if we were 'ascended' already, we would not be here in the 3rd dimension, simple as that.

what if everything just blows up and no ascension happens, we just fly through a black hole and get spit out of a white hole with a new configuration and start all over?

I believe a similar thing will happen to the ones who cannot make the 'change'..apparently they will be 'reincarnated' into a similar scenario to earth, again in 3d dna prison.

and even if we ascend to a higher dimension, we will still have to deal with our baggage.

From my studies, we will have to 'lose' the baggage in order to ascend. That is why there are more and more cases of relationship breakdowns/changes, people experiencing unknown sadness and releasing guilt, feelings of despair etc, because this is actually releasing these energies (baggage) in preparation for ascension. We cannot ascend to a higher dimension with lower forms of energy stored within us. Reptilians are unable to ascend either past their dimension due to the nature of their ways, and never will do.

what i am suggesting is to drop that baggage now and you are ready for this ascension any time. i know you are saying the same thing, but either way, it has nothing to do with the ever present 'oneness'. DNA will still be there because it is multidimensional too.

I agree.

yes it is. self sarcasm. you take it too seriously, i see.

Sometimes i do yes.

i asked, because you say that what is preventing you to live your life fully and do what you desire and feel complete and even happy

I didnt say it makes me unhappy. And i do live my life as fully as i can. I have never been so happy actually

is this body, your DNA, your mind all-in-all.

It's the realisation that things can, and will, be so much better soon :)

and i asked the logical question. why don't you leave then? are you scared of something?

Why would i want to leave when ascension is coming up? As i said above, i have never been happier...call it anticipation of ascension if you want....i am itching to ascend :)
Scared? haha..i am virtually fearless these days.

i assure you that the subconscious mind records the 100% of what is happening. your conscious does not need that information, but it gets regular feedback. i don't called it 'walled in', i call it 'misconception'.

And who can use anywhere near 100% of this recorded information? Ever wonder why?

the animals have the physical characteristics that they need in order to survive and so do we. we don't need more in order to live, we live fine with what we got, like animals do.

So how come, being the most advanced species on earth as we are, that animals can in fact see spirits and 'other dimensional entities' and we cannot? Woudn't you like to know if a reptilian was in the room with you, and was out to kill you, but we can't see it because our sense have been dumbed down?

the hawk needs the sharp vision, so he can spot little animals from a mile's distance. humans don't need that sharpness. if we had it, we would not be able to watch television or the movies.. or our reflections in the mirror.

It sure would be handy to know if (as above) some 'other being' was around.

that's why we don't have tails, feathers, claws, scales and a bunch of other stuff :rolleyes:

And that's why your dog would survive if a reptilian came into your living room to eat you both, and you would not. :rolleyes:

yes, because you are not becoming a super hero. not yet. and you are not going to become one on this planet, so no matter how cool the movies look, we'd better forget them, because supermen and spidermen and wonder women exist only in the movies.

But who knows what the next 'level' holds for us..or the one after that.?!

then again, if you feel like in prison because you are not a super hero type human, it is your choice

But i dont, i feel like we have been dumbed down, and created as mere slaves with not much perception at all of whats going on around us, yet people think they're 'free' and can see and hear and perceive 'everything there is to perceive'....the super human element doesnt really matter to me, its the 'slave' element that annoys sometimes.

i respect it, but allow me not to feel this way myself. i have done it and it is not so productive, having a free mind is much better. and that's only my personal opinion, from experience.

My mind is free-er than ever before, but being this free has made me realise more and more just what i am and how 'better' it can and will be.

our DNA is the warden? i thought it was the prison.

It is both.

not for some reason, for my life. you bet your ass i would be totally sane if i did :rolleyes:

Cant work out what youre trying to say here.

did you just make that up?

No, its a fact...if you astral travel your 'astral body' leaves you physical body, and therefore is not bound by the DNA and its limits. We experience emotions in astral dreams. Simple. No need to make things up, its a fact that stares us in the face everytime we sleep.

ok. how does your soul feel the emotions?

Probably to do with energy..everything else is.

you are always in the body. your consciousness is not, but your awareness is

Astral body leaves the physical body..it is attached by a cord to the other bodies.

you experience everything with the awareness of your body, but with alternate imagery from the mind.

So how can 'spirits' see things? And 'feel' things? They have no bodies.

we don't experience them. we are them.. the emotions. in our wholeness. and when we are them while conscious in body, we experience what we are with our body..

Same question as i asked above.

where does your UFO technology information come from?

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1595&highlight=cloaking

Theres one piece of info from the top of my head anyway.

how do you know what a UFO does when it disappears? i can find you other explanations that don't have to do with DNA and limited perceptions.

Also UFOs create a bubble around them by manipulating the energy field using crystals and magnetics, but the end result is we cannot perceive their 'new' position dimensionally with our limited perception field.

like i said, it is scientific fact that our subconscious can perceive everything and this can be proven with hypnosis.

So can science prove that we can 'perceive' other dimensions too? Not from what i can see !

maybe you don't realize why we perceive that low percentage...

I do, its because our DNA has been manipulated that way.

the reason is, because our minds are mostly focused to a single point, a single task. everything else is taken care of unconsciously.

So why can't we see spirits then, and reptilians, and ufos, and whatever else is in the 99.99% we cannot perceive? .are they not considered 'important' enough by the subconcious mind to be reported to the conscious mind?

if you were to perceive everything, your consciousness would not be able to relate to any human being or animal of this planet. so it is not really a trap, but a convention.

How do you know? Have you experienced this?

so, you are a 3 dimensional being right now huh. interesting..

but of course you are.

At the deepest of levels yes...but at this DNA level / waking permanent state, no..i am a mere 3d being like everyone else at the moment.

yes. everyone does. yes i am, apparently. :)

Seen any reptilians recently? Ghosts?

it's a miracle i can hear music in that narrow range. it really is!

Ultrasonic sound too? Like cats and dogs can hear?

in this dimension.

Which one then?

since i am not in prison, i have no warden. thanks, but i really don't want or need one.

Can i have a copy of the key you used to by pass your DNA please :)

who creates your reality? your DNA? is that it? and this DNA is self generated somehow?

As i've said, beliefs can some to some extend create your own reality, but there are limits, unlike what people on here are saying.

i haven't talked about morals yet. it is an interesting discussion. and i am not that other person who you are quoting, so i can't speak for them.

Fair enough. But i openly admit that i am a very moralistic person, and that dictates my behaviour. So therefore, if relating to being 'free', i am imprisoned by them.

our morals are not prison. our morals represent free will. it is a big discussion and i don't have much time right now to analyze that in the same post.

Same here..this post is long enough already.

oneness and whether we are it or not, or whether we can use it or not, has nothing to do with morals and rules that we make. we would never be able to create anything and progress in anything if we didn't have morals. yet, morals got so contradicting and confusing, not because of religious beliefs, but by manipulating these beliefs for self benefit. big discussion...

I'm willing to leave the moral aspect out of this discussion...it needs a new thread altogether.


Here's a good 2012 video that i have just watched yesterday for the first time and recommend everyone to see if you're interested:-
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2134106544967952302&q=dannion+brinkley&hl=en

[auron]

Wow! That was a long read! :)

[21_12_2012]

Wow! That was a long read! :)

It was a long write as well !

2012 is gunna be here by the time i finish replying to the next post :eek: !

[tru3]

I believe we live many lifetimes, and have lived many lifetimes before this one. In fact i have had 100% proof that there is life after death.

agreed. i would like to read more about this "proof", especially if it's first-hand testimony. just speaking forth experience to someone who is willing to listen fully can be liberating. pm me, if you'd like.

The body is a prison. And i would not have known it if i had not visited the other 'levels' on drugs. The same as David Icke wanted to visit the other levels, which he did, on ayahuasca.

the bodymind can be an ally, too. powerful states of expanded consciousness can be experienced without drugs. breathwork is an extremely powerful way to access subconscious memories. the same principles and archetypes in dream interpretation can be applied to the psyche, the body, the astral body, even past lives.

for example, i have never done a past life regression, because what's the point? if i have unresolved issues, they are sure to come back and bite me in the ass this time around. and, this is the crucial question:

in my past life vision, why, real or unreal, out of all the possible experiences that Infinite Being could choose, why this specific one?

so, that's just it; they're still, however majikal, still experience. the truth is, imho, that we are That Which Experiences. there is a fundamental quality of being alive that does not change. if it were to be gotten anew, it would be impermanent and therefore not worth having (ramana maharshi)

ime, chasing astral experiences is like tying to pick up quicksilver off a table. ;)

[21_12_2012]

agreed. i would like to read more about this "proof", especially if it's first-hand testimony. just speaking forth experience to someone who is willing to listen fully can be liberating. pm me, if you'd like.

In 2002 a very close friend of mine died in his sleep, it was classed as an 'accidental death'.
We were the very best of friends for years, until he started getting involved with heroin, and then i stopped hanging around with him, but i still spoke to him when i saw him around.
He came off the heroin and was on a methodone reduction program, I was seeing him more regularly out and about, and he was also on various other medication.
Anyway, one night he had been drinking and he accidentally died in his sleep aged 28.
The funeral was massive, lots of old friends there, it was a big occasion.

Just before his death, i had booked an appointment to see the first psychic medium i had ever visited..the appointment ended up being 3 weeks after his death.
So i went to this psychics house, all she knew about me was my first name when i rang her on the phone to book the appointment a month before.
She did not know anything about me, or my family or anything to do with me whatsoever....i made an appointment with her because she had an excellent reputation, and a friend of a friend of my mother recommended her at my mothers workplace.

So i went into her house, and immediately was told there was 'someone with me' as i entered her house.
She went on to tell me "it is a friend of yours...he died recently...very recently...in fact he died 3 weeks ago today".
She was accurate to the day...spot on.
Anyway, she described him exactly as his was in 'life' from his hobbies, to his personality, and even how he spoke and laughed.
She told me he is stood right by me now laughing like he always used to...and she told me he wants to be my spiritual guide.
She then told me that it is very very unusual for spirits to 'come through' from the other side so soon after death, but he has done this because he wants you to know he is here and he wants to be your guide and he wants you to give a message to his mother for him (which i ended up doing eventually)
The psychic even told me word for word the last conversation me and him had together before he died, and the conversation was about a girl i was seeing at the time who i had met from the internet, an american girl, and i was going over to the USA to meet her because she had come over and visited me a few months earlier...my friend was excited for me about me going to america...and the psychic even mentioned all that word for word...nobody could guess that in a million years..everything was accurate.

I have to say it was the most moving experience of my entire life, and i actually started crying in front of this woman.

Anyway, here is the message he wanted me to give. It was a simple but kind message:-
"dont worry mum, please...i am alright now..everything is alright now"

Anyway, i gave the message to his sister to give to his mum, because his mum was grieving so badly at the time, and i didnt want to upset her, or have her thinking i have lost my mind or telling some kind of sick joke or something...but apparently she was very happy and thanked me later after his sister told her the message.

But thats not the end of it..i visited another psychic after that, years later, and this psychic said the very same things about my friend, described him in near enough every detail as to what he was like in 'real life', and said he is 'watching over me'

Well that's my 100% proof anyway.

[bigus_dickus]

I see what you're saying, our idea of oneness is different, and i suppose everybody's idea of oneness is different.

i wanted to make replies shorter by expanding a little on the most important topics, but it looks like it only makes it longer.

anyway, yes, exactly everybody's idea of oneness is different because oneness is an idea, like everything is an idea. matter is just an idea. we can understand nowadays that it is just an illusion, it is only how things appear to us and that appearance of things we call it matter. it is not here, it is not there, but the idea of it is, so we believe that we live in a solid environment in which we can only bounce around and thus, we do. but not all the people have the same views, there have been people who have transcended these ideas and broke the lid and as we like to say "went to the other side".

but that doesn't mean that the "other side" is the oneness and this isn't. because of the simple fact that "oneness" means allness, including this side and quite more simply, how could there be "another side" if there was no idea of it, or no idea of an illusion in which we live in. therefore it is all the same one being that appears to be more, so many aspects of it take "sides" by identifying themselves with them. so if we identify ourselves with "limiting separation", we find ourselves where we are now, talking about whether 'oneness' exists or not and when. the question is not really when, but why.

Well, that kind of oneness (using drugs) is still not 'true' oneness due to the fact that the DNA can not be bypassed fully, even on ayahuasca. As David Icke states during his ayahuasca experiences, he could still feel the ground he was lying on, and see stuff around him etc, whereas if he had bypassed DNA surely he would be able to pass through 'solid' objects.
One experience i have had with 4 friends was being able to 'see through' our hands as we held them up to the sky, and that was as far as i ever got at 'by-passing DNA', and that was using psylocibin.
And, like you said, if we hadnt have 'come back' we would probably have 'died' but who knows !
I did actually 'die' once for about 10 or 20 seconds on MDMA, and i stopped breathing, i don't know if my heart stopped or not, my hearing disappeared, and everything i could see went into a small dot and disappeared, and i think i must have left my body, but luckily i came round again. It was not an unpleasant experience either, but i would not like to be in that situation again.

so what i intended to say, was that no matter where your consciousness focuses and no matter the means and the reasons, you still to be anchored to a physical form in order to retain your identity. because if you don't, it means that you drop your identity and then you are no one.

and when you do experience alternate realities, you experience the emotions with your physical body as you do when you are focused to your persistent reality, but that takes energy from your body to do, to focus to other realities with your mind, so your body has to be relaxed, so that it doesn't use energy to move, but only energy to keep it working. your emotions continue to work, because if someone comes and hits you, you will feel it.

the same thing happens when you sleep and dreaming. the mind falls into "theta" state. it is aware of the body, but the body doesn't move, it keeps the basic functions, but most of the energy goes to the mind, which performs a type of "de-fragment" parallel to the computers' hard disks. random images and incomprehensible situations pop up and your mind tries to put them in order and make a meaning from them and create a story in which you can participate and be. when you are having a dream, you are not just watching it like a movie, you are in it. the dream is you alone and every other entity in it, whether it exists or not, is present because you "call" them.
and if you are stressed in your dream, then your physical body starts to sweat and move and even talk in comprehensively, because you experience every emotion with it in your dream, so if you are not having a "good" dream, other people around will notice it without having any idea what the dream is about.

hallucinogens don't transfer you to other realities, what they do is they unleash your mind of its focus and then what happens, it is entirely up to you, for how long the drugs effect will last. they make these other realities feel more real, realer than real, but to come to think of it, that's why you should be suspicious of it in the first place. only the mind can make an illusion feel so real, as it does here, in our common life-reality, our "basic" illusion. and the more controlled and attached you are, the more real this reality gets.

this is just some information, not to make you feel bad about it, or to make you stop doing it or anything, but because you may want to find the truth behind it someday. so, i am not asking you to believe it.. just research it.

It does resonate actually, it's all about energy and how love energy is the highest form of energy, and some drugs (especially MDMA) cause this energy to flow in abundance, and connect you to its source (again, i would not advise anybody to try it though, because it is all adulterated with chemicals, hardly ever pure)

drugs force you to feel things. these things, energy that you are talking about, you are the source of it. what the drugs do, is they remove your barriers for a short while. there is no free love "out there" to be attained, you are already it, you are all the love that is ever possible to exist.. because you are the source of it. and also you are everything else that derives from that source, by putting focus "lenses" on it. the drugs remove (very partially too) your lenses for a short while. then you get back and feel trapped.

but, this is an insane situation to be in.. because in the end you don't believe that you are a source of anything and that you need to become it.

The body is a prison. And i would not have known it if i had not visited the other 'levels' on drugs. The same as David Icke wanted to visit the other levels, which he did, on ayahuasca.

all the other "levels" are in your mind. that which is also a body. why did david need ayahuasca in the first place? what would have happened to him if he didn't drink it? wouldn't he be the same david icke writting the same books about what he believes or researches?

that's exactly what i said in the previous paragraph, you only know that your body is a prison, because you have taken those drugs! think about it..

But that's not a permanent state of mind. All things have downers even caffeine, but i feel better now than i ever felt when i was taking drugs years ago. And even when i was taking drugs, the downers would only last a few days at the most, then back to normal.

yet, the drugs are the only ones that can provide you freedom, so you get addicted to them. not you, but people who become junkies, are people who believe that they are trapped and want out of this body, this reality.

do you see a pattern here? who profits from them? people are destroying their lives everyday and the people that you believe that are controlling them, get richer. but who is the real provider of freedom behind this?

I believe we live many lifetimes, and have lived many lifetimes before this one. In fact i have had 100% proof that there is life after death.

then what i said, applies even more. you can view your current life as the unique one chance to break the chain. because how do you know what your next life will be? maybe in your next life, you know nothing about reincarnation, so why wait while this here is obviously your big chance?

i don't believe in reincarnation in a sense that we are all tied in endless circles of development and evolution. if we do, it is our choice to do, maybe it is the universe's choice of which we are born.

so if it happens, it does because of some order which is not outside of you. therefore, you die, you get a life review from perspectives you have never imagined existing and you realize everything. and then you choose if you want to live again in the same world, for example if you are attached because of things that you did, or if you desire to help some people or the whole world. or, i suppose you can surrender yourself to oneness, so it chooses what happens, or you decide to implode into yourself and become a star.

so, what i'm saying is that, if your only possibility that exists is reincarnation, then quite probably that's what you are and will be doing with your present identity. for me, i am just not sure :)

Well, in my opinion, this state would be as 'high' up the 'levels' as we could go. I believe we ascend up levels as we evolve, eventually going back to the 'source' (some call it God)

but since you believe that some reptilians keep you from doing that, you will have to go through them first. how are you planning to free yourself from the reptitties?

Well, the benefit for me is that it stops me from believing stuff like 'i can create anything'...and 'all is possible'...because i can't create 'anything i want'...and 'all' is not possible...and i think believing it is is not beneficial to anybody.

belief: because i can't create 'anything i want'...and 'all' is not possible...and i think believing it is is not beneficial to anybody.

"benefit": it stops me from believing stuff like 'i can create anything'...and 'all is possible'

nice benefit! how can you live like this, this is totally insane.

no... this is spartaaaaaa!

sorry, i can't help it :)

I would say there are billions of ways to live myself, but pretending to myself that 'all is possible' and 'i can do anything' are not ways i choose to live.

so you prefer to live by pretending to yourself that 'all is not possible' and that 'you can't do anything'.

so, that means that you know yourself!

ok, can you then answer me, what is possible? what can you do? who are you? are you the reptilian who is holding this body captive?

The 'soul' perceives things also. Not just the electrical brain/mind.

really? like what?

Well, i dont know if you believe in reptilians, and their ability to move between their dimension (void) and this dimension, but i do believe it having watched CRedo Mutwas dvds with Icke, and Arizona Wilders videos, i have no reason to doubt these people whatsoever...anyway, hybrid reptilians (such as royalty etc) interbreed for a reason, and that reason must be to keep the DNA pure...and that indicates to me that their DNA enables them to 1)shapeshift and 2) move between dimensions...so that also indicates to me that they have more advanced DNA than we have, yet they appear human to us...so our 'limited' DNA structure must have been altered at some stage to prevent us from doing the same as they can (because they appear human just like we do)

no i don't believe in reptilians the way these wackos do. these people are brainwashed, plain and simple.

people see lots of things, some see ghosts, others see aliens (of many kinds), others see reptitties, others see ghouls, others see demons, others see angels, others see jinns and other see bollocks. so, there's quite a variety there to pick from like minded people. all these things are memes transferred by word of mouth, books and thoughts. all based on fear, on giving your energy to "them", to believe that they trap you and you have no hope. then to provide you with hope, with religions, drugs and what have you.

I also agree with this.but i believe there are limits to 'we create our own reality', and these limits relate to our DNA.

only our beliefs create limits. not DNA. the mind can change the DNA, it does, but it takes it a while so it is not noticeable. the process starts from the microcosm, but where it really initiates, is the background, the 90% of what there is and we don't perceive.

that means, that if humanity got wiped out right at this moment and there was only one human being left on the planet, maybe we would all be that one human being in an instant.

I don't think anybody could ever know if that would be true or not !

why not? if you believe in reincarnation, then this would be absolutely true. only one body to focus to, one parent for all..

The bible has lots of hidden meaning, even though it is coded/twisted, but basically it states that there were experiments in the garden of eden, and the story of Enki and Enlil (i think thats who they were anyway), and we were made as slaves to mine gold for the annunaki, it makes perfect sense to me that a 'slave' would have to have its DNA 'dumbed down' in order to be 'slavelike' compared to the 'gods' who created us, otherwise we would 'suss them out' and rebel and overcome them.

so you are saying that we are to dumb to be free, is that it? is that what the masons who wrote those books think too? so now you are telling me that i am a slave, because i am too dumb not to be. thanks!

on the other hand, i am telling you that you are free and you deny it. that's cool, no problem, it's not that i want to convert you or something, i will just not believe you, or those guys that you believe. i am no cynic, i just don't feel like choosing beliefs and sticking with them right now, i have other plans.

Even when we're 'dead' we are still not at oneness, the spirit world is stil part of the matrix but with a different type of DNA connecting us to it.

well, that's just speculation.

Ascension doesn't mean 'death', it means to move upwards..to ascend..like in a lift(elevator)...if a person's body changed enough to a higher vibration to allow that person to 'live' in another higher dimension without dying, then that is ascension.

higher vibration, you mean love? you mean freedom? and trust and faith and not having to wait for an external event or something?

From what i have studied, we used to have 12 strand DNA, and we now have 2 strand...and we will be returning to the 12 strand DNA in order for ascension to take place and allow us access to higher dimensions.

we now can see with our scientific organs only 2 strands of DNA. we need more sophisticated technology to understand the rest 90% of the DNA that is already there, but makes no sense.

it is already there. our minds have been controlled to limit it. that's why i said that we are like in a race car ready to go and we are waiting for someone to come light our joint. our beliefs are what is limiting, not the DNA, not the reptitties.

No, it's happening progressively. As more of this high vibrational photonic energy hits our solar system and our bodies, it is slowly slowly changing our DNA structure.

i have read these books. this is just something that is fantasy, or just a possibility. it may happen, thus it is a possibility, it is not necessarily the truth. that's why i mentioned religion.. because religion is the same, some people say that something will happen and you can't dismiss that possibility and accept the other for other reasons than your personal preferences.

so, it may be selfish for everyone, to think that they themselves will become something that eventually matters and be able to control their reality and their lives and everything. but, maybe in the end, we are all selfish and what we only care about is our own selves and by caring for others we give power to us. so, you believe that there is going to be a time when you and everyone else will become more powerful than some others and be free and able to control any kind of reality.

ok, that might happen, it is a possibility, but you may also be disappointed. it comes down to what we believe once more, so i will not disagree that DNA changes because of the photons. how would i ever know that? and how would they? but, it still doesn't make much sense.

I mean, we have not 'evolved' into a 'higher form of human' since we were created into this one, only consciousness has evolved.

since we are oblivious of such a higher form of human, except in our myths, why would we think that we should evolve to that? you know, everyone's preference is different, there may be people who wish to incarnate to mountains.

I dont claim to know all this stuff, but what i do claim to know is that our consciousness is evolving, and our DNA is evolving, and time is speeding up for everybody, this is because our consciousness is evolving.

evolving really means unfolding and unfolding means that something that has always been there is being deployed. but nothing really evolves, everything just flows, it does not mean it is getting better or worse, it keeps motion going, it keeps the streams and the desires. waking up is a very personal thing. but it also gets collective when it reaches a threshold. but 'waking up' has never and will never be permanent, but a journey. you do it for the journey, not for the outcome. to be attached to results and expectations, means to miss the point.

and time is not speeding up. it only seems like that when you are having good of it, because you resist the ending of what you are occupied with. on the other hand, when you wait and wish for the ending, time does not seem to go by. when people get older (and more stupid), the think that time goes fast. that happens, because there are far more things they are emotionally attached to, that they find comfort and security in, that they identify with, that it seems to go faster and faster. for a child, every moment is the same moment of playtime, no matter the toy, no matter the weather, no matter what the world is doing. thus there is no resistance and when the child is being a child, it has all the time in the world.

Science is wayyyy behind and science does not go beyond what is 'provable' so science will come up with limited statements and refuse to go into any kind of 'spiritual' research. Science is sceptical.

no, science is not skeptical. in it's classic sense, science is another form of religion. but science changes too like everything else and when we change, science changes too. everything does actually.

If you want to close yourself off from chanelled material it's up to you, but like i say, the facts remain that time is indeed speeding up, and our solar system and everything within it, including our bodies and our consciousness, are indeed evolving along with it at an ever increasing rate as we approach 2012, whether you want to believe that or not.

on the contrary, i am open to all this stuff, have studied lots of it and nothing you can say here is new to me. but this wasn't our topic.. i don't have anything to say about that, it might happen, but i am not sure. what it seems to me, is that we are all going to die and what will really matter will be how hard we'll take it.. but then again, even if this happens in 4 years, what does it mean for now? that we have to keep pretending that we are slaves?

Well, that's not wrong is it, world war 3 started in 2003 when USA invavded Iraq.

i don't think so.. if this is the case, then ww2 just never ended. and that's not what ian meant, clearly.

Nobody is saying it makes things happen, it is just a record of future events and cycles of evolving consciouness. And why would 2012 mean death? Can it not just mean ascension? A new beginning? An end of the current 'time' (because time, as you know, is collapsing)

you keep saying that all possibilities are not possible and that they are limited. why would they be limited to your preferences only?

You said earlier you are 'not buying it'...or at least not 'buying' anything that maybe channeled.

i think about it and don't take it for granted. i have seen to many honest helpers having a secret agenda, some of them not even knowing it.

From my studies, i believe higher beings exist (angels, archangels etc) and there are definately higher dimensions than this 3rd dimension...the reptilians reside in one just above ours in a 'void'...if we were 'ascended' already, we would not be here in the 3rd dimension, simple as that.

are you saying that being in 3rd dimension excludes you from the spectrum of vibrations and when you are not in 3rd dimension but from the 4th and above, you don't exist at all in the 3rd and below?

it doesn't make any sense. what are your studies about?

From my studies, we will have to 'lose' the baggage in order to ascend. That is why there are more and more cases of relationship breakdowns/changes, people experiencing unknown sadness and releasing guilt, feelings of despair etc, because this is actually releasing these energies (baggage) in preparation for ascension. We cannot ascend to a higher dimension with lower forms of energy stored within us. Reptilians are unable to ascend either past their dimension due to the nature of their ways, and never will do.

people have always been experiencing these feelings, especially in times of crisis, wars and recoverings from them. so they must have been ascending too. or do you believe that desperation and stress is exclusive for our era only? so, i have read that the reptilians are locked in the 4th dimension and that we are not, we are only led to believe that we are so we create this reality. but, that doesn't really mean anything to me.. and so what?

what is your baggage? your reptilian? you carry him with you and let him go when the stream takes him away? there is no other way for the reptilian to go away, is it.

I didnt say it makes me unhappy. And i do live my life as fully as i can. I have never been so happy actually

that's good, improvement perhaps, from a post that you made earlier.

It's the realisation that things can, and will, be so much better soon :)

yes, and then the realisation that the time is always now. there is no then time, time never becomes then, it can only become now.

Why would i want to leave when ascension is coming up? As i said above, i have never been happier...call it anticipation of ascension if you want....i am itching to ascend :)
Scared? haha..i am virtually fearless these days.

well, that doesn't show the entrapment that you claim to be experiencing. only because you can't be a magician, but that's bs. magic is illusion.

And who can use anywhere near 100% of this recorded information? Ever wonder why?

we use it in ways that we can't imagine... yet. but we do. and our conscious minds, which is our consciousness plays a big role with it. 90% of our reality is made of patterns of our unconsciousness and 10% is patterns of our consciousness, so that means that even our beliefs and our memory that we "skip" from our awareness in our consciousness create the most of what we experience.

it is like, we are looking at a picture, but if we go very close, we see something, but we don't know what it is, then we move back, we get the whole picture and when we get further, we don't see what it is, but we see that it is a picture. that's how the mind works in an analogy. so we are now being occupied with a level of detail that make us see ourselves as individual minds and not as one. this is our perception of what appears to be, but not of what is.

So how come, being the most advanced species on earth as we are, that animals can in fact see spirits and 'other dimensional entities' and we cannot? Woudn't you like to know if a reptilian was in the room with you, and was out to kill you, but we can't see it because our sense have been dumbed down?

they receive more light in their cortex, but that doesn't mean that they can make sense of it. they don't see spirits, they see moving things that could be anything.

i throw some food to the cat, but she doesn't see it. she can see it very clearly of course, but she doesn't understand that it is food, unless it has a familiar shape or sound when it falls down and she confirms it with smell.

so, the animals have different traits that serve them in their life, many of them don't see colors at all, but can see in the dark very well and some of them are not capable to recognize their own reflections.

so, who is really being dumbed down here?

It sure would be handy to know if (as above) some 'other being' was around.

would it? then, i inform you that there are trillions of beings around right now. you would be totally unable to focus anywhere if you were to perceive them all. you would only choose some of them, to make sense. maybe that's what you are doing already.

And that's why your dog would survive if a reptilian came into your living room to eat you both, and you would not. :rolleyes:

rofl!

But i dont, i feel like we have been dumbed down, and created as mere slaves with not much perception at all of whats going on around us, yet people think they're 'free' and can see and hear and perceive 'everything there is to perceive'....the super human element doesnt really matter to me, its the 'slave' element that annoys sometimes.

but you are a slave one, aren't you? i don't believe you are of course.. i don't believe you when you say that you believe it either.

It is both.

no it is not. if you say it is both, then it must have a life of its own, it must be a virus.

Cant work out what youre trying to say here.

i am saying that someone avoiding danger in order to protect his body, is doing a sane thing to do.

No, its a fact...if you astral travel your 'astral body' leaves you physical body, and therefore is not bound by the DNA and its limits. We experience emotions in astral dreams. Simple. No need to make things up, its a fact that stares us in the face everytime we sleep.

do you have a clue of what an astral body is?

Probably to do with energy..everything else is.

since emotion means energy in motion and is experienced by the vibrations in the body, induced by the proper chemicals that are produced from the brain, how can the soul, a single spot in the universe experience such a vibration? in what terms? why, for instance, don't you experience your tail and your wings or your beak? maybe because you don't physically have one? where would an 'astral body' be projected from if there was no 'dense body' to be projected?

Astral body leaves the physical body..it is attached by a cord to the other bodies.

the astral body is just your imagination.

So how can 'spirits' see things? And 'feel' things? They have no bodies.

but we do. ;)

Same question as i asked above.

same answer.

Also UFOs create a bubble around them by manipulating the energy field using crystals and magnetics, but the end result is we cannot perceive their 'new' position dimensionally with our limited perception field.

are you sure about this?

So can science prove that we can 'perceive' other dimensions too? Not from what i can see !

you perceive a limited amount of the dimension of memory, which is related to the 4th dimension.

you also have programmed behavior since your childhood according to the way you were brought up. there lie some of our basic phobias.. that's another dimension that we don't constantly perceive, but we do only when we notice it. generally there are countless dimensions around us, that we do not perceive, because we don't select them. they are not going anywhere, we are not just paying attention. but unconsciously, everything is being recorded by all possible angles and perspectives and this can be verified.

I do, its because our DNA has been manipulated that way.

nah, it's not that.

So why can't we see spirits then, and reptilians, and ufos, and whatever else is in the 99.99% we cannot perceive? .are they not considered 'important' enough by the subconcious mind to be reported to the conscious mind?

because they are not there.

How do you know? Have you experienced this?

but what i am saying is that it is impossible to experience, unless perhaps you have no body, but all. which means that you're quite dead alright, or alive as an idea in the cosmic mind.

At the deepest of levels yes...but at this DNA level / waking permanent state, no..i am a mere 3d being like everyone else at the moment.

i am not. i exist in all dimensions. i simply exist in the 4th dimension, because the 3rd is a slice of the 4th. so is the 4th, a slice of the 5th and so on. and that means that if exist in the lower dimension, then i definitely exist in the higher. how do you manage to be left out of this?

Seen any reptilians recently? Ghosts?

yeah, they were playing football, the ghosts were winning, then the reptitties made a comeback.

Ultrasonic sound too? Like cats and dogs can hear?

even the cats and the dogs have limits.

Can i have a copy of the key you used to by pass your DNA please :)

no key. you have to have a chat with the warden and he will decide.

As i've said, beliefs can some to some extend create your own reality, but there are limits, unlike what people on here are saying.

we make them, we define them, we know nothing of limits and what we can do, the most part is speculation, superstition and prejudice. and know-it-all attitude. it's ok though.

Fair enough. But i openly admit that i am a very moralistic person, and that dictates my behaviour. So therefore, if relating to being 'free', i am imprisoned by them.

i am too, but it by no means mean that you are prisoned. why would you want to be free to fuck your sister or mother (for example)? if you were an animal you would, but you have will. the animal is not free of its nature, if it wants to fuck, it will fuck anything. reminds you of some humans by the way.

Here's a good 2012 video that i have just watched yesterday for the first time and recommend everyone to see if you're interested:-
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2134106544967952302&q=dannion+brinkley&hl=en

good one, but i didn't like it that much when he was keep saying "go buy my book and my wife's book".

his interview that i have posted a couple of weeks ago is much better.

[21_12_2012]

but that doesn't mean that the "other side" is the oneness and this isn't. because of the simple fact that "oneness" means allness, including this side and quite more simply, how could there be "another side" if there was no idea of it, or no idea of an illusion in which we live in. therefore it is all the same one being that appears to be more, so many aspects of it take "sides" by identifying themselves with them. so if we identify ourselves with "limiting separation", we find ourselves where we are now, talking about whether 'oneness' exists or not and when. the question is not really when, but why.

I understand what youre saying there, but we shall have to disgree on our 'idea' of oneness. My idea is similar to David Icke's idea of oneness.... namely:-
It is still (it doesn't vibrate)...there is no time (it ceases to exist)....and there is the overwelming feeling of blissness, all-knowing-ness, and 'one with everything'-ness
A state that i cannot feel whilst i am living in this 3d world in this 2 strand DNA body...UNLESS i take substances which by-pass the DNA (which David Icke talks about regarding ayahuasca and other substances)

so what i intended to say, was that no matter where your consciousness focuses and no matter the means and the reasons, you still to be anchored to a physical form in order to retain your identity. because if you don't, it means that you drop your identity and then you are no one.

I disagree with this also..it's like saying:-"after your physical body ceases to exist, you cease to have an identity and you become no one"...i have 100% proof that this is NOT true..after your physical body 'dies' you still have your same identity and you STILL are 'someone'...i have first hand experience of this, see my previous post on this thread regarding my friend who died in 2002.

and when you do experience alternate realities, you experience the emotions with your physical body as you do when you are focused to your persistent reality

I disagree again...people who have 'died' still experience emotions/empathy/bliss/happyness/elation etc in their spirit form..they have no 'physical bodies'
Also, people who have experienced 'death' whilst being operated upon and 'died', and had heart attacks and been recusitated, they also have felt everwelming emotions whilst being in THEIR spirit form (AFTER their physical body died)

but that takes energy from your body to do, to focus to other realities with your mind, so your body has to be relaxed, so that it doesn't use energy to move, but only energy to keep it working. your emotions continue to work, because if someone comes and hits you, you will feel it.

Feeling someone hitting you isnt to do with your emotions, it is merely your sensory nerve endings in your skin, and, like i said above, you dont need your physical body to experience emotions, the spirit can experience it quite easily, after death or during 'astral' experiences when it leaves the physical body.

the same thing happens when you sleep and dreaming. the mind falls into "theta" state. it is aware of the body, but the body doesn't move, it keeps the basic functions, but most of the energy goes to the mind, which performs a type of "de-fragment" parallel to the computers' hard disks. random images and incomprehensible situations pop up and your mind tries to put them in order and make a meaning from them and create a story in which you can participate and be. when you are having a dream, you are not just watching it like a movie, you are in it. the dream is you alone and every other entity in it, whether it exists or not, is present because you "call" them.
and if you are stressed in your dream, then your physical body starts to sweat and move and even talk in comprehensively, because you experience every emotion with it in your dream, so if you are not having a "good" dream, other people around will notice it without having any idea what the dream is about.

There are several types of dreams...some of them the spirit leaves the body and experiences actual entities, other beings, other planes of existance, other realms, other dimensions (the astral dimension and the higher dimensions)...even though everything can be classed as 'illusion', it is still 'real' as an experience rather than 'all in the mind' as you put it.

hallucinogens don't transfer you to other realities, what they do is they unleash your mind of its focus

What they do is they by-pass your DNA, and allow a wider perception of what is 'out there'...they let you see other realities that are hidden due to our limited DNA structure.

and then what happens, it is entirely up to you, for how long the drugs effect will last. they make these other realities feel more real, realer than real

They break down the barriers of our DNA-related experience of the world..the limited perception that most people think is 'all there is'

but to come to think of it, that's why you should be suspicious of it in the first place. only the mind can make an illusion feel so real

The other realities it allows you to see ARE real (as real as our 3d dimension)..its not a matter of 'the mind is making it feel real'...it is there....the drug just drops the DNA walls down.

the more controlled and attached you are, the more real this reality gets.

I disagree...there are sheople out there who are the most controlled people in the world, and attached to material things/emotions etc, yet they still experience as much of a 'real reality' as people who are 'free-minded', and feel like theyre not controlled (people on this forum for example)
It doesnt matter how much we try and detach from the 'control' and all the rest of it, the bottom line is we all experience the same reality, with the same rules and limits, because we all have the same DNA structure..belief or not belief.

this is just some information, not to make you feel bad about it, or to make you stop doing it or anything, but because you may want to find the truth behind it someday. so, i am not asking you to believe it.. just research it.

I dont feel bad about it...i know 'my truth' about it...and i dont need to research it any further...ive BEEN THERE...hundreds of times !

drugs force you to feel things.

'drugs' is a loose term, different drugs have different effects...if you're talking about hallucinogens, they also have widely varying effects...MDMA is what i was referring to regarding the connection of 'pure love' and its source.
It does not force you to feel anything, what it did 'for me' is bypass the DNA emotions and the 'programmed' self, and it connected me to my 'true' feelings (what my soul feels) and that is pure love/empathy. We cannot connect to this in our everyday lives, it just is not possible. We are closed off from our 'true' selves, and from this 'pure love' due to our DNA structure.
Other hallucinogens do have different effects to MDMA, and the 'oneness' / 'pure-soul-love-ness' is not very prevelant from their usage, although it does come quite close depending on the mood of the user at the time/the situation/the doseage etc...whereas MDMA is almost an instant connection to the soul/love feeling.
I know this because i have taken MDMA hundreds of times, and have experienced that loving/blissness/empathy hundreds of times too..it isnt just a case of "drugs make you feel a certain way'...it allows TRUE connection to the TRUE feelings of the soul.

these things, energy that you are talking about, you are the source of it. what the drugs do, is they remove your barriers for a short while. there is no free love "out there" to be attained, you are already it, you are all the love that is ever possible to exist.. because you are the source of it. and also you are everything else that derives from that source, by putting focus "lenses" on it. the drugs remove (very partially too) your lenses for a short while. then you get back and feel trapped.

So, do you spend everyday walking around/doing your thing feeling 100% absolute blissness/soulful pure loving/timeless ecstasy...? or are you, like me, limited by your DNA structure?

all the other "levels" are in your mind.

All these other levels are as real as this level we are stuck in, whether theyre 'illusion or not'....the chair you are sitting in is 'real' to you isnt it? Your body is 'real' to you isnt it? It is your reality...you feel it as solid, therefore it is your reality...you can call it illusion all day long, but you still have to 'live it' as 'real'...same as the 'other levels'..theyre as real as this one...

why did david need ayahuasca in the first place? what would have happened to him if he didn't drink it? wouldn't he be the same david icke writting the same books about what he believes or researches?

Probably not...and if he didnt experience it, he wouldnt have coined the phrase "infinate love is the only truth..everything else is illusion"...but he missed the ending out....which should be ..."but it still feels real to us....and we still have to live it"

that's exactly what i said in the previous paragraph, you only know that your body is a prison, because you have taken those drugs! think about it..

I knew a long time before i ever took drugs that something was 'missing' and people should have 'more power' than what we currently have..i said that in my previous post. This is also a common feeling with Ascension Symptoms.

See this thread for more information about Ascension:- http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3883

yet, the drugs are the only ones that can provide you freedom, so you get addicted to them. not you, but people who become junkies, are people who believe that they are trapped and want out of this body, this reality.

They've realised that we are limited with this DNA, so who can blame some people for becoming addicted...its natural to want to repeat certain experiences if it is fullfilling for the soul, but unhealthy if not taken in moderation..thats where the 'mind' comes into it.
Weak minded people often become addicted and tend to over-use drugs...also young people are impressionable and tend to over-use them too, peer pressure plays a part also.

do you see a pattern here? who profits from them? people are destroying their lives everyday and the people that you believe that are controlling them, get richer. but who is the real provider of freedom behind this?

Believe me, i have seen more tragic drug cases than i care to remember..and i know perfectly well about destroyed lives and who profits...but it does not take the truth away that certain drugs do by pass the DNA and connect a person to his true soul feelings(pure love)

then what i said, applies even more. you can view your current life as the unique one chance to break the chain. because how do you know what your next life will be? maybe in your next life, you know nothing about reincarnation, so why wait while this here is obviously your big chance?

I dont quite understand what you mean here, but, in my opinion reincarnation depends upon whether the soul feels it has gained the experience it needed in order to feel fulfilled or 'evolve'. I would only know the answer to that after my physical body ceases to exsist...i dont know what you mean about 'breaking the chain' in this lifetime.

i don't believe in reincarnation in a sense that we are all tied in endless circles of development and evolution. if we do, it is our choice to do, maybe it is the universe's choice of which we are born.

I do believe in reincarnation..and i believe we select our 'parents' according to what experiences we wish to gain in the lifetime we choose to participate in.

so if it happens, it does because of some order which is not outside of you. therefore, you die, you get a life review from perspectives you have never imagined existing and you realize everything. and then you choose if you want to live again in the same world, for example if you are attached because of things that you did, or if you desire to help some people or the whole world. or, i suppose you can surrender yourself to oneness, so it chooses what happens, or you decide to implode into yourself and become a star.

I believe we have 'soul families', like branches from a tree, we are a leaf from a certain branch, and we return and interact with the same soul family through our incarnations..i do not know whether surrendering to oneness would be an option, but i suspect it could be.

so, what i'm saying is that, if your only possibility that exists is reincarnation, then quite probably that's what you are and will be doing with your present identity. for me, i am just not sure :)

My present identity is going to ascend to the next level of 'reality'...in this lifetime.

but since you believe that some reptilians keep you from doing that, you will have to go through them first. how are you planning to free yourself from the reptitties?

I have no idea what you mean here...are you referring to the manipulated DNA which we were created with? If so, i have already explained in the previous post that our DNA is curently undergoing changes/expansion to allow for ascension (in those people who can withstand the changes)...so the 'reppies' dont really have a hold on me for long do they !

belief: because i can't create 'anything i want'...and 'all' is not possible...and i think believing it is is not beneficial to anybody

Correct..its self-deceit really...."i can create anything" its a lie to ones self...because i cannot create 'anything'...i can create 'some things...with limits'

"benefit": it stops me from believing stuff like 'i can create anything'...and 'all is possible'

Correct !

nice benefit! how can you live like this, this is totally insane.

haha NO, what is totally insane is people believeing "I CAN CREATE ANYTHING" and "ALL IS POSSIBLE" (in this 3d dna reality)...now THAT is INSANE !
Prove it i say ! (and then everything goes quiet)

no... this is spartaaaaaa!

sorry, i can't help it :)

hahaaaa me too !!!

so you prefer to live by pretending to yourself that 'all is not possible' and that 'you can't do anything'.

Im not pretending anything..its a fact "ALL is not possible...SOME is"(with limits) and "i cant do ANYTHING..i can do SOME things" (with limits of course haha)

so, that means that you know yourself!

It means i know that this 3d DNA reality is LIMITED...FOR EVERYONE ... not just me !

ok, can you then answer me, what is possible? what can you do? who are you? are you the reptilian who is holding this body captive?

What kind of question is that? DNA is the only thing limiting me, it has rules, which you, me, david icke, david copperfield....cannot BREAK..apart form that everything is possible to an extent.
Example:-
Can you cut your own head off, stick it back on, and carry on living your normal life as before? ...NO...So is 'all' possible...no
Can you stand in front of a speeding train and let it hit you, and then continue to live a normal life after that?...NO..so "all" is NOT possible.
Could you go and pluck out your eyeball, eat it, then grow another eye and have perfectly normal sight again...No...
could you cut off your hand and grow a new one back on....No.

I could make this list go on...and on...and on...and on...probably forever and ever...but i wont...because i know for fact that 'all' is not possible...and so do you but seem to not want to admit it for some reason !

Who am i ? I am a soul, experiencing physical life in a limited DNA structured body..just like you, icke and copperfield...

the sould perceives things also

really? like what?

Like ive said above....pure love/bliss/empathy....like i said...IVE BEEN THERE...HUNDREDS OF TIMES !

no i don't believe in reptilians the way these wackos do. these people are brainwashed, plain and simple.

So, David Icke is brainwashed..and the witnesses he has interviewed are brainwashed...do you actually believe in ANY of Icke's theories?

And have you visited the 4th dimensional void where they reside, totally explored it with your expanded perceptions, and found there to be no reptilians existing ?
Please explain more fully about your journey into these realms when you explored them !

people see lots of things, some see ghosts, others see aliens (of many kinds), others see reptitties, others see ghouls, others see demons, others see angels, others see jinns and other see bollocks. so, there's quite a variety there to pick from like minded people. all these things are memes transferred by word of mouth, books and thoughts. all based on fear, on giving your energy to "them", to believe that they trap you and you have no hope. then to provide you with hope, with religions, drugs and what have you.

Is there anything 'out there' that you believe exists. or is it all you you you ?!?!

only our beliefs create limits. not DNA. the mind can change the DNA, it does, but it takes it a while so it is not noticeable. the process starts from the microcosm, but where it really initiates, is the background, the 90% of what there is and we don't perceive.

Well im still waiting for someone to show me how theyve 'changed their beliefs' to such an extent that they can percieve 'other dimensions'...manifest things instantly...pass through solid objects...move objects with their minds.....levitate at will.....anythings possible right ?!

so you are saying that we are to dumb to be free, is that it? is that what the masons who wrote those books think too? so now you are telling me that i am a slave, because i am too dumb not to be. thanks!

We are dumber than we should be, and dumber than we were before we were created into this present form.
And what makes you think that all books relating to our previous forms are illuminati-written? Very cynical and narrow minded view.

on the other hand, i am telling you that you are free and you deny it. that's cool, no problem, it's not that i want to convert you or something, i will just not believe you, or those guys that you believe. i am no cynic, i just don't feel like choosing beliefs and sticking with them right now, i have other plans.

I am free from my DNA reality am i ? Well how come i cannot perceive all that is...and achieve absolutely anything i want to.and how come i am stuck day after day just like you are in the same 2 strand body with limits? Surely if i was free there would be no limits? And i would feel 100% blissful love every moment of my 'existance" yet this is not so ?! Why not..if i am free?!

Even when we're 'dead' we are still not at oneness, the spirit world is stil part of the matrix but with a different type of DNA connecting us to it

well, that's just speculation.

David Icke and other authors confirm this. Also there is channeled material referring to the nature of the spirit world, and its limits/rules.

Ascension doesn't mean 'death', it means to move upwards..to ascend..like in a lift(elevator)...if a person's body changed enough to a higher vibration to allow that person to 'live' in another higher dimension without dying, then that is ascension.

higher vibration, you mean love? you mean freedom? and trust and faith and not having to wait for an external event or something?

No, i mean a higher/physically less-dense reality, which our current bodies/DNA could not withstand without the necessary changes which are occuring presently.

we now can see with our scientific organs only 2 strands of DNA. we need more sophisticated technology to understand the rest 90% of the DNA that is already there, but makes no sense.

That doesn't mean we have 12 strands presently though does it.

it is already there. our minds have been controlled to limit it. that's why i said that we are like in a race car ready to go and we are waiting for someone to come light our joint. our beliefs are what is limiting, not the DNA, not the reptitties.

How come your race car isnt going any faster than mine or anyone elses for that matter ? Looks like whoever lit your joint used a dud match.
We wont be 'racing' until we shed the current DNA structure.

i have read these books. this is just something that is fantasy,

Can you prove this?

or just a possibility. it may happen, thus it is a possibility, it is not necessarily the truth.

And it is not necessarily NOT the truth.

that's why i mentioned religion.. because religion is the same, some people say that something will happen and you can't dismiss that possibility and accept the other for other reasons than your personal preferences.

Religion is nothing like ascension. There are no scientific facts with religion, whereas the current changing frequencies in the solar system, and the rising schumann resonance, and the links to the ancient dates actually can be proved.

so, it may be selfish for everyone, to think that they themselves will become something that eventually matters and be able to control their reality and their lives and everything. but, maybe in the end, we are all selfish and what we only care about is our own selves and by caring for others we give power to us. so, you believe that there is going to be a time when you and everyone else will become more powerful than some others and be free and able to control any kind of reality.

Im not saying we dont matter right now..we do...people like myself who believe we are experiencing ascension symptoms have long felt restless and wanting to shed this current reality. And yes, i do believe i will be better able to control and create my reality after ascension.
When you say 'more powerful than others' do you mean more powerful than others who have not ascended 'this time around' and reincarnated into a similar 3d world again? Then yes, i would be more powerful in not so many words. I would have transcended this dimension and be able to achieve higher and wider levels of possibilty.

ok, that might happen, it is a possibility, but you may also be disappointed. it comes down to what we believe once more, so i will not disagree that DNA changes because of the photons. how would i ever know that? and how would they? but, it still doesn't make much sense.

We are light, these photons are high intensity powerful forms of light, it makes sense that an increased amount of photons will affect our bodies/minds/souls. Belief doesnt come into it, it really is affecting us.

since we are oblivious of such a higher form of human, except in our myths, why would we think that we should evolve to that? you know, everyone's preference is different, there may be people who wish to incarnate to mountains.

I guess you can 'know it' or 'not know it'.....'feel it' or 'not feel it'...you KNOW when things arent right for you here, and you KNOW when you're body/mind/spirit is changing....and i KNOW it.
Ascension happens in waves, some people have not started experiencing symptoms yet. I did around 2 years ago. Some may not experience them, although i think everybody will either right now or in the very near future (before 2012)

evolving really means unfolding and unfolding means that something that has always been there is being deployed. but nothing really evolves, everything just flows, it does not mean it is getting better or worse, it keeps motion going,

EVOLVE
1. to develop gradually: to evolve a scheme.
2. to give off or emit, as odors or vapors.
–verb (used without object) 3. to come forth gradually into being; develop; undergo evolution: The whole idea evolved from a casual remark.
4. Biology. to develop by a process of evolution to a different adaptive state or condition: The human species evolved from an ancestor that was probably arboreal

it keeps the streams and the desires. waking up is a very personal thing. but it also gets collective when it reaches a threshold. but 'waking up' has never and will never be permanent, but a journey. you do it for the journey, not for the outcome. to be attached to results and expectations, means to miss the point.

I am not missing the point...i am merely feeling the ascension symptoms of wanting to break free from this limited reality.

and time is not speeding up. it only seems like that when you are having good of it, because you resist the ending of what you are occupied with. on the other hand, when you wait and wish for the ending, time does not seem to go by. when people get older (and more stupid), the think that time goes fast. that happens, because there are far more things they are emotionally attached to, that they find comfort and security in, that they identify with, that it seems to go faster and faster. for a child, every moment is the same moment of playtime, no matter the toy, no matter the weather, no matter what the world is doing. thus there is no resistance and when the child is being a child, it has all the time in the world.

Actually, thats wrong. Time, for everybody, young or old, is appearing to pass much faster. Ask anyone. I even noticed when it started to 'speed up' in the mid-late 1980s/early 1990s.
A 24 hour day now, seems like 16 hours was back then. We have 'lost' 1/3rd of our day due to our perception of time speeding up. It is directly related to the evolution of consciouness and the increasing vibratory rate which our solar system is experiencing, and has been experiencing since the 1980s, and the increasing schumman resonance.

no, science is not skeptical. in it's classic sense, science is another form of religion. but science changes too like everything else and when we change, science changes too. everything does actually.

Science is very sceptical. see David Ickes works for confirmation of this. In fact see any form of 'truth seekers' writings for more confirmation.
Does science tell us we even have a spirit/soul? Not from what i have seen. How sceptical is that?

on the contrary, i am open to all this stuff, have studied lots of it and nothing you can say here is new to me. but this wasn't our topic.. i don't have anything to say about that, it might happen, but i am not sure. what it seems to me, is that we are all going to die and what will really matter will be how hard we'll take it.. but then again, even if this happens in 4 years, what does it mean for now? that we have to keep pretending that we are slaves?

There is no pretending, for me at least. As long as i am in this reality, and especially with the current 'control regime', i am a slave..there is no pretending about it. Its a fact. But does that stop me enjoying life to the full...no. I just accept it and carry on.

i don't think so.. if this is the case, then ww2 just never ended. and that's not what ian meant, clearly.

Im unsure of what you mean here. If, as you say, Ian said the Mayans predicted ww3 in 2005, then why is that (to you) so 'off the mark' ?
The Mayan calendar is thousands of years old, yet (according to Ian) it predicted ww3 in 2005, wouldn't you say that is astonishingly accurate?
How can anybody say 'it is wrong' ?

you keep saying that all possibilities are not possible and that they are limited. why would they be limited to your preferences only?

I dont know what you mean. What i do know is 'all' is not possible for me....'all' is not possible for you...'all' is not possible for David Icke..'all' is not possible for David Copperfield...'all' is not possible for Joe Bloggs or John Doe...there is no 'preference' about it...its just the way it is..i cannot explain it any simpler.

i think about it and don't take it for granted. i have seen to many honest helpers having a secret agenda, some of them not even knowing it.

I also dont take channeled writing for granted...i take what resonates with me as the truth.

are you saying that being in 3rd dimension excludes you from the spectrum of vibrations and when you are not in 3rd dimension but from the 4th and above, you don't exist at all in the 3rd and below?

I am saying that us low-vibrational beings in this dense reality (3d) do not have access to higher dimensions whilst we are clogged up with low vibrational thoughts/feelings which need releasing/transmuting/working through. This in combination with changing DNA wil enable higher access yes.
Whether we can access 3d AFTER ascension, i do not know, and i do not care really. If it is there to access i doubt i would want to access it or exist in it.

it doesn't make any sense. what are your studies about?

Acsension/evolution of consciousness/crystals/energy and lightwork...plus the stuff discussed on this forum.
Makes sense to me anyway.

people have always been experiencing these feelings, especially in times of crisis, wars and recoverings from them. so they must have been ascending too. or do you believe that desperation and stress is exclusive for our era only?

Again, a very sceptical/cynical and narrow minded way of looking at it.
Its obvious that you are 'hell-bent' on dimsissing acension and all related information as 'airy fairy' make believe, or illuminati disinformation...fair enough, thats up to you...you obviously must not be experiencing any of the symptoms, or 'living' them right now to think like that...unless you are just denying it to yourself..either way it doesnt matter to me..i know my truth.

so, i have read that the reptilians are locked in the 4th dimension and that we are not, we are only led to believe that we are so we create this reality. but, that doesn't really mean anything to me.. and so what?

I have also read that the reptilians are locked...in a 'void' just outside our dimension and just below the next. Also we are locked, by the DNA in 3d...can you see anybody escaping...have you escaped?

what is your baggage? your reptilian? you carry him with you and let him go when the stream takes him away? there is no other way for the reptilian to go away, is it.

We all have baggage..emotional energy to be transmuted/released. What your reference to reptilian is for i have no idea, and i dont understand your wording or what it means.

I didnt say it makes me unhappy. And i do live my life as fully as i can. I have never been so happy actually

that's good, improvement perhaps, from a post that you made earlier.

Ive always stated ive never been happier. The only thing that sometimes annoys me is the fact that i feel like i want to leave this dimension and feel limitied by its constraints (ascension symptoms)..this doesnt 'ruin my life', but it can be annoying at times, so can releasing/transmuting negative energies.
It can be a painful process, but a purifying one, so it is well worth it.

yes, and then the realisation that the time is always now. there is no then time, time never becomes then, it can only become now.

but as long as we live in this 3d dna world, time does exist, will exist, and will be a factor in our 'lives' here, therefore we will relate to past. present and future.

well, that doesn't show the entrapment that you claim to be experiencing. only because you can't be a magician, but that's bs. magic is illusion.

I would say 'itching to ascend' shows the entrapment i am experiencing.
I dont know what the reference to being a magician is about, but if you're referring to the fact that "all" is not possible and my realisation of this, then yes, thats a factor of feeling 'entrapped' as you call it.

we use it in ways that we can't imagine... yet. but we do. and our conscious minds, which is our consciousness plays a big role with it. 90% of our reality is made of patterns of our unconsciousness and 10% is patterns of our consciousness, so that means that even our beliefs and our memory that we "skip" from our awareness in our consciousness create the most of what we experience.

Yet, we all see the same stuff, we are all 'in the same boat' regardless of who believes what and who things 'all is possible'...we all still see and perceive the same stuff...because we all have the same DNA locking us into this fact.

it is like, we are looking at a picture, but if we go very close, we see something, but we don't know what it is, then we move back, we get the whole picture and when we get further, we don't see what it is, but we see that it is a picture. that's how the mind works in an analogy. so we are now being occupied with a level of detail that make us see ourselves as individual minds and not as one. this is our perception of what appears to be, but not of what is.

As above, we all see the same stuff and perceive the same stuff..regardless of beliefs etc.

they receive more light in their cortex, but that doesn't mean that they can make sense of it. they don't see spirits, they see moving things that could be anything.

They have a wider frequency perception range, not just a matter of receiving more light. And how do oyu know they dont see spirits?
I have first hand experience of a dog of mine seeing a spirit in a graveyard while i was holding him on a lead. Ive never seen him so terrified. Dogs dont just go 'insane' for nothing, and stare at 'nothing' in a graveyard..so please dont tell me that animals dont see spirits.
Also, see David Ickes 'secrets of the matrix' for his refence to 'cat reacting to empty space' (spirits/entities)

i throw some food to the cat, but she doesn't see it. she can see it very clearly of course, but she doesn't understand that it is food, unless it has a familiar shape or sound when it falls down and she confirms it with smell.

Unsure of what youre getting at here, but i know for 100% fact that animals (namely cats and dogs to name 2) can actually see spirits, and do actually have a wider frequency perception range than humans)..science wont tell you THAT either.

so, the animals have different traits that serve them in their life, many of them don't see colors at all, but can see in the dark very well and some of them are not capable to recognize their own reflections.

But they can see spirits..its a fact.

so, who is really being dumbed down here?

Us, obviously.

would it? then, i inform you that there are trillions of beings around right now. you would be totally unable to focus anywhere if you were to perceive them all. you would only choose some of them, to make sense. maybe that's what you are doing already.

How do you know there would be trillions of beings around me now? Have you experienced this? Its doubful.
And i have no idea what you mean by saying "you would only choose some of them, to make sense. maybe that's what you are doing already"...the fact is, i am seeing EXACTLY the same as what youre seeing..! And every one else in the dna world.

And that's why your dog would survive if a reptilian came into your living room to eat you both, and you would not.

rofl!

You wouldnt be laughing when the dog has run off and left you, due to its wider perception range. But then again, you dont believe that animals can see spirits/entities from other dimensions, so that wouldnt be your reality would it.....

but you are a slave one, aren't you? i don't believe you are of course.. i don't believe you when you say that you believe it either.

Fair enough, believe what you like..its up to you.

do you have a clue of what an astral body is?

erm yes..its what you experience the astral world with, and it connects to your physical body with a cord. Do YOU have a clue?

since emotion means energy in motion and is experienced by the vibrations in the body, induced by the proper chemicals that are produced from the brain, how can the soul, a single spot in the universe experience such a vibration?

There are countless 'souls' on other dimensions, with no physical bodies, experiencing emotions constantly...they need no chemicals..they need no physical bodies...how selfish to believe that only physical humans can experience emotions !

the astral body is just your imagination.

It is a real part of a 'whole persons being' namely 7 bodies all connected on some level.

So how can 'spirits' see things? And 'feel' things? They have no bodies.

but we do. ;)

But you didnt answer the question...! You say that only us humans can experience and feel emotions,..i asked the question, above.

Also UFOs create a bubble around them by manipulating the energy field using crystals and magnetics, but the end result is we cannot perceive their 'new' position dimensionally with our limited perception field.

are you sure about this?

Yes...or do you have some alternative fact for me.

you perceive a limited amount of the dimension of memory, which is related to the 4th dimension.

I dont understand what you mean.
We have a limited perception range though.

you also have programmed behavior since your childhood according to the way you were brought up. there lie some of our basic phobias..


Phobias come from past lives, and also times of 'major changes' like poleshifts and 'earth upheavals'

that's another dimension that we don't constantly perceive, but we do only when we notice it. generally there are countless dimensions around us, that we do not perceive, because we don't select them.

No....its not because we dont select them..its because we cannot perceive them...at all !
Not me...not you....not Icke...NOBODY !

they are not going anywhere, we are not just paying attention. but unconsciously, everything is being recorded by all possible angles and perspectives and this can be verified.

It can be verified that we take in ALL THE DIMENSIONS and EVERYTHING goin on in them can it?
I'd love to see those data results !

So why can't we see spirits then, and reptilians, and ufos, and whatever else is in the 99.99% we cannot perceive? .are they not considered 'important' enough by the subconcious mind to be reported to the conscious mind?

because they are not there.

Are you being serious?
So i take it you have explored the 99.99% of what we cannot perceive...checked it all out, and found none of the above to exist...right...ok.

i am not. i exist in all dimensions. i simply exist in the 4th dimension, because the 3rd is a slice of the 4th. so is the 4th, a slice of the 5th and so on. and that means that if exist in the lower dimension, then i definitely exist in the higher. how do you manage to be left out of this?

Whether we 'exist' in higher dimensions than the 3rd or not, you...me....icke....none of us can PERCEIVE IT...belief or no belief.

even the cats and the dogs have limits.

Not as limited as our senses though are they !

we make them, we define them, we know nothing of limits and what we can do, the most part is speculation, superstition and prejudice. and know-it-all attitude. it's ok though.

I know...i know me or you couldnt stand in front of a speeding train and live...id call that limits wouldnt you?

i am too, but it by no means mean that you are prisoned. why would you want to be free to fuck your sister or mother (for example)? if you were an animal you would, but you have will. the animal is not free of its nature, if it wants to fuck, it will fuck anything. reminds you of some humans by the way.

Quite ridiculous. Being free wouldnt mean doing moralistically 'wrong' acts.
Ascension is about releasing negative patterns/energies, ascended 'souls' would not have that negativity within them to do such negative things. But as you said, some humans would.

good one, but i didn't like it that much when he was keep saying "go buy my book and my wife's book".

Fair enough..doesnt mean anything is wrong what he said though..especially about time collapsing.

[bigus_dickus]

I understand what youre saying there, but we shall have to disgree on our 'idea' of oneness. My idea is similar to David Icke's idea of oneness.... namely:-
It is still (it doesn't vibrate)...there is no time (it ceases to exist)....and there is the overwelming feeling of blissness, all-knowing-ness, and 'one with everything'-ness
A state that i cannot feel whilst i am living in this 3d world in this 2 strand DNA body...UNLESS i take substances which by-pass the DNA (which David Icke talks about regarding ayahuasca and other substances)

that is not disagreement on my idea of 'oneness'. that's just a different description. it's the buddhist "nirvana", that is contrary to samsara or maya.

and by saying that you are bound by DNA to feel that, makes all the buddhists and the like, liars for having achieved that while in body. by-passing the DNA? i don't think so, just clearing their mind.

I disagree with this also..it's like saying:-"after your physical body ceases to exist, you cease to have an identity and you become no one"...i have 100% proof that this is NOT true..after your physical body 'dies' you still have your same identity and you STILL are 'someone'...i have first hand experience of this, see my previous post on this thread regarding my friend who died in 2002.

no, what i said is that it is impossible for someone to be identified with a body after he is dead. the memory of the body and its experiences may continue to live and merge with the other memories of the particular identity, or dissolve into nothingness if it is not that important.

but, in order to understand this, we have to understand more basic concepts first, such as: what makes you, you? what does a personality consist of? is a soul separate from the body and the mind, or does it include them? does the unconscious mind contain all personalities and memories and history ever existed?

and then we come back to beliefs... the average person believes in a "higher power" that directs his or her actions, that the soul possesses the body and that death means that the soul leaves the body and goes somewhere else. but, this is not exactly how it is, this is what people believe and teach and it is not necessarily how things work. i believe that the biggest possibility, is that the complex mind-body-spirit is the soul. and the soul is a fraction of a group and this group a fraction of another group and in the end everything that exists is "soul" in those terms.

but, since our topic is whether we are 'one' yet or not and not what the nature of life, spirit, or soul is, this detour can spark a few more pages of discussion in which we will be trying to determine what is what, because of confusion of terminology.

I disagree again...people who have 'died' still experience emotions/empathy/bliss/happyness/elation etc in their spirit form..they have no 'physical bodies'
Also, people who have experienced 'death' whilst being operated upon and 'died', and had heart attacks and been recusitated, they also have felt everwelming emotions whilst being in THEIR spirit form (AFTER their physical body died)

i suggested that what they "experienced" is their true nature, which is what we would call 'infinite love'. and that must be our 'natural' spiritual state. and when they "experienced" fear for example, they became fear, they didn't experience it with emotions.

this is not simple to explain, if you believe that the soul is a replica of your human biology that can experience feelings and emotions the same way. i don't know if it's wrong to believe that, but it doesn't add up.

here is a simple example of what happens. our emotions and feelings, are our "soul" state. so, when i say "i am happy", i mean that my soul IS happy, but i can also have the physical experience of happiness with my body, with dopamine and other chemicals that create this feeling of "happiness", "bliss", or "love". the same goes when i am sad. sadness comes from deep inside, comes to my mind, i understand it, i experience it with my body, i think it and then i say "i am sad". it means "i am experiencing sadness", but the body is experiencing the sadness, but the body is not sad, "I AM" sad.

Feeling someone hitting you isnt to do with your emotions, it is merely your sensory nerve endings in your skin, and, like i said above, you dont need your physical body to experience emotions, the spirit can experience it quite easily, after death or during 'astral' experiences when it leaves the physical body.

feeling someone hitting you, is being aware of your body while you are in stillness, which means that you are still aware of your senses, which means that you are still aware of the nerves that manifest your emotions, your experience of your emotions.

There are several types of dreams...some of them the spirit leaves the body and experiences actual entities, other beings, other planes of existance, other realms, other dimensions (the astral dimension and the higher dimensions)...even though everything can be classed as 'illusion', it is still 'real' as an experience rather than 'all in the mind' as you put it.

illusion does not mean fake or lie. it is a trick.. a real trick.

here is your etymology treat
illusion
c.1340, "act of deception," from O.Fr. illusion "a mocking," from L. illusionem (nom. illusio) "a mocking, jesting, irony," from illudere "mock at," lit. "to play with," from in- "at" + ludere "to play" (see ludicrous). Sense of "deceptive appearance" developed in Eng. c.1374. Illusionist "conjurer, magic act performer" is from 1850. Illusive formed in Eng. 1679; the other adj. form, illusory (1599) is from Fr. illusorie, from L.L. illusorius "of a mocking character," from L. illudere.

The other realities it allows you to see ARE real (as real as our 3d dimension)..its not a matter of 'the mind is making it feel real'...it is there....the drug just drops the DNA walls down.

no, that's just speculation, you just made that up. if there was no DNA, no drug would be able to be received in the first place. drugs don't cancel out DNA, period. it's impossible.

I disagree...there are sheople out there who are the most controlled people in the world, and attached to material things/emotions etc, yet they still experience as much of a 'real reality' as people who are 'free-minded', and feel like theyre not controlled (people on this forum for example)
It doesnt matter how much we try and detach from the 'control' and all the rest of it, the bottom line is we all experience the same reality, with the same rules and limits, because we all have the same DNA structure..belief or not belief.

no we don't experience the same reality, even if you disagree. i don't experience spirits and psychic phenomena and stuff like that the way you do. so, our realities are different, but we obviously have common ground.

It does not force you to feel anything, what it did 'for me' is bypass the DNA emotions and the 'programmed' self, and it connected me to my 'true' feelings (what my soul feels) and that is pure love/empathy. We cannot connect to this in our everyday lives, it just is not possible. We are closed off from our 'true' selves, and from this 'pure love' due to our DNA structure.
Other hallucinogens do have different effects to MDMA, and the 'oneness' / 'pure-soul-love-ness' is not very prevelant from their usage, although it does come quite close depending on the mood of the user at the time/the situation/the doseage etc...whereas MDMA is almost an instant connection to the soul/love feeling.
I know this because i have taken MDMA hundreds of times, and have experienced that loving/blissness/empathy hundreds of times too..it isnt just a case of "drugs make you feel a certain way'...it allows TRUE connection to the TRUE feelings of the soul.

that's what i said, that they remove your barriers from your brain. but, not by-pass DNA, that's science fiction. and then you say that everything is not possible. of course... everything is not possible, only what you want is possible. you want to by-pass DNA with drugs, fine, it's possible. you want to ascend like jesus? yeap, that's possible too, but everything else is just impossible.

and that's because you believe that experiencing this state is impossible without drugs that by-pass DNA. there are a lot of guys who have proved that it is possible, so there goes your theory.

So, do you spend everyday walking around/doing your thing feeling 100% absolute blissness/soulful pure loving/timeless ecstasy...? or are you, like me, limited by your DNA structure?

i don't intend to spend my everyday life feeling 100% absolute bliss and ecstasy. this is not what life is about.

All these other levels are as real as this level we are stuck in, whether theyre 'illusion or not'....the chair you are sitting in is 'real' to you isnt it? Your body is 'real' to you isnt it? It is your reality...you feel it as solid, therefore it is your reality...you can call it illusion all day long, but you still have to 'live it' as 'real'...same as the 'other levels'..theyre as real as this one...

i see, there is confusion on what reality is. what does "reality" mean to you?

Probably not...and if he didnt experience it, he wouldnt have coined the phrase "infinate love is the only truth..everything else is illusion"...but he missed the ending out....which should be ..."but it still feels real to us....and we still have to live it"

i have coined that phrase long before Icke wrote it, without having drank aya or taken drugs. the title of his last book was the only reason i started reading Icke.

I knew a long time before i ever took drugs that something was 'missing' and people should have 'more power' than what we currently have..i said that in my previous post. This is also a common feeling with Ascension Symptoms.

See this thread for more information about Ascension:- http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3883

i have already seen this thread. and i have already read all about ascension and symptoms in the past. i have also met guys who have been ascending for the last 3 years.. well, they're still here...experiencing "symptoms". whatever!

They've realised that we are limited with this DNA, so who can blame some people for becoming addicted...its natural to want to repeat certain experiences if it is fullfilling for the soul, but unhealthy if not taken in moderation..thats where the 'mind' comes into it.
Weak minded people often become addicted and tend to over-use drugs...also young people are impressionable and tend to over-use them too, peer pressure plays a part also.

there you go, naming traps as "natural". and then you claim that you are naturally trapped.

but i don't blame the people, they just don't know what they are doing. some commit suicide, i don't blame them, they just don't know what they are doing.

there have been many who committed mass suicide, while on drugs too, believing that they would ascend. well, are they ascended now? who knows... they are dead alright.

Believe me, i have seen more tragic drug cases than i care to remember..and i know perfectly well about destroyed lives and who profits...but it does not take the truth away that certain drugs do by pass the DNA and connect a person to his true soul feelings(pure love)

the soul does not feel anything, the soul IS love, IS everything that exists. damn!

I dont quite understand what you mean here, but, in my opinion reincarnation depends upon whether the soul feels it has gained the experience it needed in order to feel fulfilled or 'evolve'. I would only know the answer to that after my physical body ceases to exsist...i dont know what you mean about 'breaking the chain' in this lifetime.

the chain of karma. reincarnation goes together with karma and dharma and all that. can't have karma without reincarnation and can't have reincarnation without karma, unless we decide to reinvent these terms to fit our likeness.

I believe we have 'soul families', like branches from a tree, we are a leaf from a certain branch, and we return and interact with the same soul family through our incarnations..i do not know whether surrendering to oneness would be an option, but i suspect it could be.

that's not far from what i believe, but i always take things further. no need to expand more here.. maybe in other threads.

My present identity is going to ascend to the next level of 'reality'...in this lifetime.

that's what david korresh and his followers believed. that's what religious people believe, that they are going to live forever. not only that, but that they will be young again, with much better bodies, with unlimited fulfillment of desires and so on. that's what the scientists believe too, that they will find a way to sustain their bodies and their egos forever. nice delusions, but the reality has always been disappointing for them.

I have no idea what you mean here...are you referring to the manipulated DNA which we were created with? If so, i have already explained in the previous post that our DNA is curently undergoing changes/expansion to allow for ascension (in those people who can withstand the changes)...so the 'reppies' dont really have a hold on me for long do they !

i assumed that since your DNA is your prison AND your warden, the reptits would have something to do with it. after all, they are here controlling and manipulating their slaves, aren't they?

haha NO, what is totally insane is people believeing "I CAN CREATE ANYTHING" and "ALL IS POSSIBLE" (in this 3d dna reality)...now THAT is INSANE !
Prove it i say ! (and then everything goes quiet)

you proved it, by claiming that you are ascending and having symptoms, one of which is the transformation of your DNA. and that you by-pass your DNA occasionally and that you have spirits of your friends walking beside you invisible on the street. you have created all these "impossible" things.

Im not pretending anything..its a fact "ALL is not possible...SOME is"(with limits) and "i cant do ANYTHING..i can do SOME things" (with limits of course haha)

yeah and you can ascend too, that's too possible, whatever that is.

when i say "all possibilities exist", i take it that you understand a totally different notion of what i am saying.

I could make this list go on...and on...and on...and on...probably forever and ever...but i wont...because i know for fact that 'all' is not possible...and so do you but seem to not want to admit it for some reason !

ok. i will agree with you now (for only this paragraph). not everything is possible, because i can't cut my head off and grow a new one.

and it's also impossible that you have a soul. if you do, show it to me. also it is impossible that there are spirits and ascension and of course it is impossible for other realities to exist, only in illusory realities, that are not real but virtual.

also, it is impossible to create with thoughts. everything is created in random and your thoughts are the result of this randomness, they just seem to be in order, but it is impossible that they are.

Who am i ? I am a soul, experiencing physical life in a limited DNA structured body..just like you, icke and copperfield...

maybe we are all one soul.

So, David Icke is brainwashed..and the witnesses he has interviewed are brainwashed...do you actually believe in ANY of Icke's theories?

the truth? i invented them.

And have you visited the 4th dimensional void where they reside, totally explored it with your expanded perceptions, and found there to be no reptilians existing ?
Please explain more fully about your journey into these realms when you explored them !

everything that your mind can conceive, exists in another dimension. which is not a place. the connections that you have with the "other" dimensions, is your mind. so, not only the reptitties exist, but billions of forms of life that we are yet to meet.

but, the reptitties shape shifting into humans is something 'impossible' that you should not believe, as you say, because it should not be possible. but then again you believe what icke and wilder and whoever says and you accept it as a reality. it is no more possible, it is the truth for you.

you may even believe that the reps are invisible evil blood thirsty creatures, who eat babies and virgins and mate with our women. like demons of some sort, or maybe they are the middle ages' demons in person. maybe you and other people have experienced and seen them doing these things.

sure... however there are other people who have only met angels in their lives. why don't you believe them?

Is there anything 'out there' that you believe exists. or is it all you you you ?!?!

does anything exist out of you? where does the "out" begin? in fact, do you know where you begin?

Well im still waiting for someone to show me how theyve 'changed their beliefs' to such an extent that they can percieve 'other dimensions'...manifest things instantly...pass through solid objects...move objects with their minds.....levitate at will.....anythings possible right ?!

you are waiting for an illusionist?

We are dumber than we should be, and dumber than we were before we were created into this present form.
And what makes you think that all books relating to our previous forms are illuminati-written? Very cynical and narrow minded view.

i didn't mention the illuminati. i mentioned the masons. the masons, took works like blavatsky's for example and brainwash hitler with it, so that they make him believe that satan has released his people to take control of the planet. they follow the biblical texts, they make rituals (mind control) and have their own beliefs (religion) no matter what they say.

not all the masons though.. there are positive and negative ones.

i don't think this is a narrow minded view. and i don't believe that the masons are "evil" by nature. selfish maybe, believers maybe as well, but i don't know if it is possible for anyone to be born genuinely "evil". but, anyone can be made to be anything, with teaching and practice (programming).

I am free from my DNA reality am i ? Well how come i cannot perceive all that is...and achieve absolutely anything i want to.and how come i am stuck day after day just like you are in the same 2 strand body with limits? Surely if i was free there would be no limits? And i would feel 100% blissful love every moment of my 'existance" yet this is not so ?! Why not..if i am free?!

that's like asking "why am i here", "what is my purpose", "what do i have to do in this life", "why is this not working". i am not god to answer your questions, maybe you have chosen the task of finding these answers for yourself. i don't have them.

all i can say is that "all that is" is what you perceive right now. and "all that is not", you are not.

David Icke and other authors confirm this. Also there is channeled material referring to the nature of the spirit world, and its limits/rules.

so what? most times they contradict with each other and all times, each author or channel has studied the previous, so that their work can make sense. you can't have icke without a whole lot of authors preceding him.

and what does DNA have to do with the spirit world anyway?

No, i mean a higher/physically less-dense reality, which our current bodies/DNA could not withstand without the necessary changes which are occuring presently.

ah.. resurrection. just like jesus. and others, who have managed to transform their bodies to light and disappear from this reality. and others who have performed total implosion, or spontaneous combustion. but, this is something that has been done long before 2012. documented in ancient scripts and stuff.

That doesn't mean we have 12 strands presently though does it.

why not? if the "junk" DNA is "dimensional", how would we know that it doesn't have to do with dimensions? how would we know that it doesn't get extended to the dimensions, possibly with a lot more than 12 strands?

but, even if it was so, we would not be able to measure it and discover the rest of the strands, we can only observe the 2 of them and the 3rd which is the RNA, that make the 3 dimensional shapes from the geometrical patterns that exist in nature (mind).

How come your race car isnt going any faster than mine or anyone elses for that matter ? Looks like whoever lit your joint used a dud match.
We wont be 'racing' until we shed the current DNA structure.

i think it has always been running... it's an illusion that we are stopped. but of course i can't prove that and i can't really believe it. but it seems logical.

maybe when our bodies got engineered, there was a switch installed in the mind.. which took away our long term memory. and that consequently made death exist as a concept. it also made us forget how to communicate and maybe.. enabled our minds to develop in a much more faster rate than "before".

Can you prove this?

And it is not necessarily NOT the truth.

then all possibilities MUST exist. ;)

Religion is nothing like ascension. There are no scientific facts with religion, whereas the current changing frequencies in the solar system, and the rising schumann resonance, and the links to the ancient dates actually can be proved.

Im not saying we dont matter right now..we do...people like myself who believe we are experiencing ascension symptoms have long felt restless and wanting to shed this current reality. And yes, i do believe i will be better able to control and create my reality after ascension.
When you say 'more powerful than others' do you mean more powerful than others who have not ascended 'this time around' and reincarnated into a similar 3d world again? Then yes, i would be more powerful in not so many words. I would have transcended this dimension and be able to achieve higher and wider levels of possibilty.

all religions are about either "ascension", "after life", "soul", "direction", "higher being", "god".

the "new age" that you believe in, is not a religion in it's classic meaning, but as a belief system it is. and as such, science in it's classic meaning is too.

what i am saying, to be relevant to our topic, is that you are never going to be more "ONE" than you are now and than you have always been. what you were or are going to be able to do and what your limits were or will be, in other lives, other realities, other forms of existence, is irrelevant. you will still be you creating yourself anew.

We are light, these photons are high intensity powerful forms of light, it makes sense that an increased amount of photons will affect our bodies/minds/souls. Belief doesnt come into it, it really is affecting us.

we are reflections of light, as "spirit" and we are the being reflected as "oneness".

the properties of a mirror, change the reflecting image of a being, but does not change the being.

many mirrors, make many reflections, many forms, many images. but what is, remains what is, before and after time.

EVOLVE
1. to develop gradually: to evolve a scheme.
2. to give off or emit, as odors or vapors.
–verb (used without object) 3. to come forth gradually into being; develop; undergo evolution: The whole idea evolved from a casual remark.
4. Biology. to develop by a process of evolution to a different adaptive state or condition: The human species evolved from an ancestor that was probably arboreal

the truth behind words can be found in the meanings that they were invented for:

evolve
1641, "to unfold, open out, expand," from L. evolvere "unroll," from ex- "out" + volvere "to roll" (see vulva). Evolution (1622), originally meant "unrolling of a book;" it first was used in the modern scientific sense 1832 by Scot. geologist Charles Lyell. Charles Darwin used the word only once, in the closing paragraph of "The Origin of Species" (1859), and preferred descent with modification, in part because evolution already had been used in the 18c. homunculus theory of embryological development (first proposed under this name by Bonnet, 1762), in part because it carried a sense of "progress" not found in Darwin's idea. But Victorian belief in progress prevailed (along with brevity), and Herbert Spencer and other biologists popularized evolution.

Actually, thats wrong. Time, for everybody, young or old, is appearing to pass much faster. Ask anyone. I even noticed when it started to 'speed up' in the mid-late 1980s/early 1990s.

that's what i said, it appears. it passes, but where does it go? what are the ingredients of time, its properties, that makes it pass faster?

if you say it's just perception, that's what i said, it's just perception, people think it and it happens, because it's a mental construct. but if it does indeed go faster, in what way does it? does the earth spin faster around her axis? does she spin faster around the sun?

Science is very sceptical. see David Ickes works for confirmation of this. In fact see any form of 'truth seekers' writings for more confirmation.
Does science tell us we even have a spirit/soul? Not from what i have seen. How sceptical is that?

science is not skeptical, people are skeptical. science is not just physics, it is the collection of all its branches and all its history. it has "walked through walls" many times in the past, as a metaphor and keeps finding walls to walk through.

science is not the ultimate truth, imagination is. there would be no science without imagination, without making "impossible" theories and trying to find evidence of their applications. hence science is also flawed.

and since scientists of old times decided that they would take a different path than religions, they don't talk about soul and spirit, just like you never hear the word "jesus" in spiderman and superman movies.

Im unsure of what you mean here. If, as you say, Ian said the Mayans predicted ww3 in 2005, then why is that (to you) so 'off the mark' ?
The Mayan calendar is thousands of years old, yet (according to Ian) it predicted ww3 in 2005, wouldn't you say that is astonishingly accurate?
How can anybody say 'it is wrong' ?

i didn't say that the calendar is wrong, i said that it doesn't predict what we want it to predict. it gives a picture of cycles and potential changes within these cycles and we can arrive to this conclusions by applying our known history on it. and that's about it!

I dont know what you mean. What i do know is 'all' is not possible for me....'all' is not possible for you...'all' is not possible for David Icke..'all' is not possible for David Copperfield...'all' is not possible for Joe Bloggs or John Doe...there is no 'preference' about it...its just the way it is..i cannot explain it any simpler.

if you didn't want to ascend, would you experiencing ascension symptoms now?

I am saying that us low-vibrational beings in this dense reality (3d) do not have access to higher dimensions whilst we are clogged up with low vibrational thoughts/feelings which need releasing/transmuting/working through. This in combination with changing DNA wil enable higher access yes.
Whether we can access 3d AFTER ascension, i do not know, and i do not care really. If it is there to access i doubt i would want to access it or exist in it.

it is possible that you have no idea what "higher" dimensions would mean.

Again, a very sceptical/cynical and narrow minded way of looking at it.
Its obvious that you are 'hell-bent' on dimsissing acension and all related information as 'airy fairy' make believe, or illuminati disinformation...fair enough, thats up to you...you obviously must not be experiencing any of the symptoms, or 'living' them right now to think like that...unless you are just denying it to yourself..either way it doesnt matter to me..i know my truth.

i am not dismissing it, i am saying that it is not what you think. that we are going to be able to be at one with everything that exists after some ascension event. we are already one with everything that exists. if we weren't, any ascension would be totally impossible.
i am just on topic.

I have also read that the reptilians are locked...in a 'void' just outside our dimension and just below the next. Also we are locked, by the DNA in 3d...can you see anybody escaping...have you escaped?

i am not locked. no need for me to escape then.

We all have baggage..emotional energy to be transmuted/released. What your reference to reptilian is for i have no idea, and i dont understand your wording or what it means.

it means that since you are restricted by your DNA, that you have no control on and since the reptilians can do whatever they want with it, even transfer their thoughts to you and make you do things, quite possibly i am having a discussion with a reptilian right now. and that's only by what you have stated.

Ive always stated ive never been happier. The only thing that sometimes annoys me is the fact that i feel like i want to leave this dimension and feel limitied by its constraints (ascension symptoms)..this doesnt 'ruin my life', but it can be annoying at times, so can releasing/transmuting negative energies.
It can be a painful process, but a purifying one, so it is well worth it.

then, i must be an ascended master, because i've already been through this stage that you are describing. but sorry, i can't cut my arms and grow wings in their place. i really don't feel like it.. :rolleyes:

but as long as we live in this 3d dna world, time does exist, will exist, and will be a factor in our 'lives' here, therefore we will relate to past. present and future.

if time exists, then it exists always. anything that exists, exists always. but where?

I would say 'itching to ascend' shows the entrapment i am experiencing.
I dont know what the reference to being a magician is about, but if you're referring to the fact that "all" is not possible and my realisation of this, then yes, thats a factor of feeling 'entrapped' as you call it.

but, you believe that all is not possible, so ascension is impossible. why is ascension possible? it is 'light years' more impossible than me levitating and lifting buildings.

however, if ascension is possible, then it must already exist. therefore all possibilities exist.

what you are saying, is that no.. not all possibilities exist, only those that I like!

They have a wider frequency perception range, not just a matter of receiving more light. And how do oyu know they dont see spirits?

how do you know that they do? because they react to something that you don't see? a cat can see a bug moving from 8ft away, which is impossible for you to see.

I have first hand experience of a dog of mine seeing a spirit in a graveyard while i was holding him on a lead. Ive never seen him so terrified. Dogs dont just go 'insane' for nothing, and stare at 'nothing' in a graveyard..so please dont tell me that animals dont see spirits.
Also, see David Ickes 'secrets of the matrix' for his refence to 'cat reacting to empty space' (spirits/entities)

i have seen it. nothing to say about it. they see things that we don't, in a different way and we see things that they don't and in a different way. we can "see" (feel) spirits too, that's how we see them.

if we only believe what we see, we see only what we believe.

How do you know there would be trillions of beings around me now? Have you experienced this? Its doubful.

i know without having to experience it. everything around you is alive, no matter if it seems dead. your own cells are beings on their own as well, doing exactly what you do living your life, communicating with others, making relationships, eating, shitting, fighting, etc. i know this, without having to occupy your body.

And i have no idea what you mean by saying "you would only choose some of them, to make sense. maybe that's what you are doing already"...the fact is, i am seeing EXACTLY the same as what youre seeing..! And every one else in the dna world.

the eyes don't see anything. the mind does. the eyes are the receptors, the mind is the watcher. you can see with your heart, you can see with your skin. ask a blind man.

You wouldnt be laughing when the dog has run off and left you, due to its wider perception range. But then again, you dont believe that animals can see spirits/entities from other dimensions, so that wouldnt be your reality would it.....

i would be laughing if i saw you running because your dog barked at thin air. it would be hilarious.

Fair enough, believe what you like..its up to you.

or, like what you believe. of course it's up to me. i can claim to be anything, why should you believe what i claim?

erm yes..its what you experience the astral world with, and it connects to your physical body with a cord. Do YOU have a clue?

why does it connect to the physical body with a cord? what is the function of this cord? what happens if you cut the cord?

There are countless 'souls' on other dimensions, with no physical bodies, experiencing emotions constantly...they need no chemicals..they need no physical bodies...how selfish to believe that only physical humans can experience emotions !

selfish? you judge it as being selfish? with what criteria?

It is a real part of a 'whole persons being' namely 7 bodies all connected on some level.

bodies, you mean the chakras?

But you didnt answer the question...! You say that only us humans can experience and feel emotions,..i asked the question, above.

spirits can experience themselves by occupying a body or connecting with an existing body. otherwise they would remain spirits forever and ever. why do spirits want bodies?

Yes...or do you have some alternative fact for me.

no. who does? these are speculations.. you refer to something like this as fact.

in the same manner, i can claim that i have ridden one of these spaceships myself and i know all about them and it is a fact.

I dont understand what you mean.
We have a limited perception range though.

that memory is an aspect of the "4th dimension".

Phobias come from past lives, and also times of 'major changes' like poleshifts and 'earth upheavals'

whatever!

It can be verified that we take in ALL THE DIMENSIONS and EVERYTHING goin on in them can it?
I'd love to see those data results !

hypnosis (sleep)

Are you being serious?
So i take it you have explored the 99.99% of what we cannot perceive...checked it all out, and found none of the above to exist...right...ok.

yeap. why don't you believe me? i am not being serious all the time, how about you?

I know...i know me or you couldnt stand in front of a speeding train and live...id call that limits wouldnt you?

so, "no limits" would be you standing in front of a train that goes right through you and leaves you untouched. right!

then you would not be able to ride that train, so there is a new limit created. the train would go through you all the time. and in the end, you would not need a train, the train would be for those low living limited DNA creatures and not for you the super human, who can manipulate reality like a god.

Quite ridiculous. Being free wouldnt mean doing moralistically 'wrong' acts.
Ascension is about releasing negative patterns/energies, ascended 'souls' would not have that negativity within them to do such negative things. But as you said, some humans would.

i have no negativity within me and i consciously don't do negative things. so, by your terms, i am ascended. that's why i can talk about freedom.

and i must have been really lucky, because there were no "symptoms", it happened in a moment. lol..

Fair enough..doesnt mean anything is wrong what he said though..especially about time collapsing.

time does not stand somewhere to collapse. the idea in our minds is going to change, that's how it collapses.

interesting.. a couple of weeks ago, i post his interview, that quite possibly sparked an interest and brought this video up, that you posted to me as an example of what you have to say to "disagree" with me, using my own example.... in a thread that is entitled we are NOT 'all one' yet...

:cool:

[mada88]

We're not all one "yet"????? there is no time there is only this one moment. The infinte now.

[aznality]

Like i said above...we may be all one at a VERY deep level (which we do not access in our 'daily lives')

You are not me...I am not you...we are individuals trapped within a biological computer (the body)....and that biological computer is trapped within a 3d reality (or matrix ).
You cannot influence me and I cannot influence you...you have free will and i have free will.
I cannot read your mind, neither can you read my mind.

So, like i said above, we certainly are not all one as long as we live in this 3d reality, and as long as we have limited access with our current 2 strand DNA.


I'd like to add a few points to the discussion.

Firstly about the mind reading, well a lot of psychics are very capable of that. I know I have had a few ESP experiences myself too, along with my family members. So given psychic abilities do exist, how is it that we are not all connected? The only way we are able to traverse our minds into the infinity is that we need to be connected. Not just Icke, but a lotta psychics say this too, if you believe you are trapped and powerless, maybe that does become your reality. If you believe you are mortal, therefore you are. It is the ones who believe outside the box, are the ones who will do so. So maybe we are currently trapped into 3D version of reality. But so what. At the highest level, if we are one, that SHOULD hold true for all levels. Maybe we just do not see it because of our illusionary version of reality, but that's what we are. A lot of people just choose not to be imprisoned by the 3D reality. They break out of it and make their own.

This figure of 144,000 is supposedly the amount of people necessary (who have become 'enlightened' and of pure mind/morals/values etc) needed for 'mass ascension' of the human race when it comes to the time of the change
Considering that this forum is supposed to contain (supposedly) some of the worlds most 'switched on' and 'awake' people....(around 4000-5000 members), then if you think about it, another 140 000 people would also be needed to reach this figure of 144,000...(i do not know if this will be the case, but i am using it as an example of just how small the percentage of 'awake' people are actualy in the world)
If it is the case that a dimensional shift will occur (2012 as has been stated by many people), then in my opinion, this is definately not enough time for enough of the population to become 'enlightened' and get us all through this.

How do you know we don't have enough? I know there are a whole lot more people in the world who are like us. Us David Icke fans aren't the only one who share the same beliefs.

Thanks for reading.

[wormhole]

O-sensei taught,

One's real body is the universe itself, and one's responsibility as a human being encompasses all things therein.

[21_12_2012]

We're not all one "yet"????? there is no time there is only this one moment. The infinte now.

If you are experiencing the deep level of oneness, then yes, there is no time 'experience'
But go and put your hand in a fire for 10 seconds, you'll notice time then !

In fact, we all are bound by time, and limited by it.....time to wake up....time to go to work...time to eat....time to go and visit friends....
So, at our level of reality (3d level of 'normal waking life') time does exist and time plays a big part.
But time is collapsing and appearing to be going faster, so what i am sayig is that this is related to 2012, and our gradual 'shedding' of this dimensional experience and onto a new experience.

[21_12_2012]

I'd like to add a few points to the discussion.

Firstly about the mind reading, well a lot of psychics are very capable of that. I know I have had a few ESP experiences myself too, along with my family members. So given psychic abilities do exist, how is it that we are not all connected?

I have had a few myself, youll see on this thread further back if you read about my experience visiting a psychic.

In my opinion, these 'psychics' have a slightly different DNA code than we have...very very slightly wider range of perception.
Which would explain why their sons/daughters often inherit the psychic 'gift'...Whereas the rest of us do not have it. Its like an 'error' in the DNA, but only very slightly.
I also think that we all had these abilities at one time, but were taken away from us by our 'creators' who altered our DNA.
Only a small percentage of the earths population are 'psychic' on that kind of level. And an even smaller amount can actually 'see' spirits' and other dimensional entities.
I have ALWAYS agreed with the fact that we are 'oneness' and connected at the DEEPEST OF LEVELS...what i am saying is that as long as we remain in this DNA 3d dimensional reality, we will not experience this 'oneness', and all these psychic powers etc, or true connection.

believe you are trapped and powerless, maybe that does become your reality.

If you read back on this thread, youll see that i have been making points about this time and time again.
Many many people believe that 'everything is possible' and 'we arent trapped..we are truly free/connected/oneness" whatever...yet, they experience EXACTLY the same thing as me and everybody else does..regardless of their beliefs..so how is their reality different than mine ?
I believe we are trapped into perceiving the TINIEST amount of 'what is out there'...and our senses have been 'dumbed down' at one stage of our genetic development (creation)...yet i still experiece the same realities as everybody else who does not believe that..so how does belief change THAT reality? It doesnt !

If you believe you are mortal, therefore you are. It is the ones who believe outside the box, are the ones who will do so.

Do YOU believe outside the box? If so, how is your experience different to mine ? And what can you perceive/see/do/create differently that me? Do you have psychic powers ? Can you see spirits?

So maybe we are currently trapped into 3D version of reality. But so what. At the highest level, if we are one, that SHOULD hold true for all levels. Maybe we just do not see it because of our illusionary version of reality, but that's what we are. A lot of people just choose not to be imprisoned by the 3D reality. They break out of it and make their own.

I am saying that it is our DNA thats preventing us from truly becoming creators and experiencing/seeing more than we currently do. And what we experience in our daily lives is far from 'the highest level'.

How do you know we don't have enough? I know there are a whole lot more people in the world who are like us. Us David Icke fans aren't the only one who share the same beliefs.

Thanks for reading.

Its just my opinion that there are nowhere near 144 000 people enough for a mass-ascension.
I dont know if you 'believe' in ascension or not, but apparently that is the number that would be needed to take the whole population a level higher (mass ascension)
All i see when i go outside are people who appear to be more interested in watching big brother / pop idol and eating junk food and drinking beer.

[21_12_2012]

BIGUS...i will reply in a day or 2...its gunna take me hours...again !
But cheers for the post anyway..its been interesting so far.

[infinitely free]

A lot of members on this forum often talk about 'one-ness' and that we are 'all one'......David Icke also speaks of this, regarding his research.
People like Bill Hicks also have spoken about this.
The people who do speak about this are people who have been into other temporary 'states of awareness' on hallucinogenic drugs.

BUT.... these states of awareness are temporary, and even when a person is in this state, true oneness is not achieved, because it would mean that EVERYONE else on the planet would have to be in the same state (permanently) to achieve any kind of level of 'oneness' (and the DRUG level of oness is not a true oneness anyway)

So, the people who continually state "we are all one"...are actually coming from a fake viewpoint of drug-experienced one-ness.



I have experienced True Oneness, without consuming any odd mind-alterer! It is a state like no other, and just because we are not able (don't know how) to stay there, does not mean that it doesn't exist!

I mean - what can i say - it is a lack of anything - this is why we are fast to come back to this painful illusion, which is really only illusion

[21_12_2012]

I have experienced True Oneness, without consuming any odd mind-alterer! It is a state like no other, and just because we are not able (don't know how) to stay there, does not mean that it doesn't exist!

I mean - what can i say - it is a lack of anything - this is why we are fast to come back to this painful illusion, which is really only illusion

I'm not saying it doesn't exist.
In fact i know it does, i've been there (close) more times that i can remember.

What i am saying though, is that we are 'blocked' (held) away from it, by our DNA.
This reality may be only illusion, but you, me and everybody else has to live it, and experience it as real...so we can call it illusion all day long if we want...it's still 'real' to us.
And oneness is still far away.
Thats the point of this thread.

[infinitely free]

True oneness would come when the actual DNA of every person on the planet has expanded from the current 2 strand DNA which we all have, into DNA which allows for multi-dimensional (multi-level) access

We may be 'all one' (consciousness) at a deeper level than this 'matrix' we live in.....BUT:-

As long as we are living in this matrix, at this level we call 'reality', with this current 2 strand DNA which we all have, then we are NOT all one.

We are 'locked into' this tiny frequency range on this level we call the matrix....

We are imprisoned (for want of a better word), and seperated from 'oneness'



There are two main tragedies, in this Matix.

One is called Death. The other's called Time.
These are the tragedies, as i'd call them, because they keep us '"imprisoned"!

But they are both illusory! So, what is the moral of the story? :)

[infinitely free]

I'm not saying it doesn't exist.
In fact i know it does, i've been there (close) more times that i can remember.

What i am saying though, is that we are 'blocked' (held) away from it, by our DNA.
This reality may be only illusion, but you, me and everybody else has to live it, and experience it as real...so we can call it illusion all day long if we want...it's still 'real' to us.
And oneness is still far away.
Thats the point of this thread.


Yes, I understand what you're saying!
But, one of the most basic, things that we need to have in mind is - 'Nothing has to be as it is! ' - Which ithink, is the main point David Icke's trying to make, in the books!

We cannot really live in oneness, because, in a way, Oneness seems to be Nothingness! But, we can reprogramme our Reality, to suit us!

[mada88]

Nothingness sounds great! its just plain old being. Oh but that would be "boring" not really its just because your addicted to doing instead of being. We don't connect with oneness because we are kept preoccupied by distractions. The one is silent and still but this world is far from that.

[21_12_2012]

There are two main tragedies, in this Matix.

One is called Death. The other's called Time.
These are the tragedies, as i'd call them, because they keep us '"imprisoned"!

But they are both illusory! So, what is the moral of the story? :)

Regardless of it being illusory, nobody can escape time, and nobody can escape death.
We will continue to experience these things as 'real'...it does not matter how many times we say to ourselves "its all an illusion" ....or..."time does not exist"....or...."death is an illusion"...because....at our level of existance within this matrix, we experience it ALL as being real.
It doesnt matter how much we try and change our belief system to "its all an illusion"...."time doesnt exist"....it will STILL EXIST at our level of existance (the 3d dna matrix level that we remain stuck in)
I know where Icke is coming from with all this, he speaks about 'not associating' with the world as being 'real', and to try and connect more and more with the 'all that is' ..'oneness'...but even Icke still has to experience time the same as the rest of us do....and all the rest of the things that are 'illusory'
The bottom line is we experience them all as REAL....so stating that 'its all illusion' doesnt mean anything at this level of existance.
Like i said in a previous post on this thread, if a bullet comes flying at your head, youll feel it, and youll be affected by it. Thats as 'real' as real can be in our level of existance.
Same as if we jumped off a skyscraper, nobody can escape the limits and rules of our 3d DNA reality....even though it is illusion (at the deepest of levels which we do not 'experience')
SO, to your point "what is the moral of the story"

In my opinion, the moral is:- "even though life is illusion, we all experience it as REAL, and it has rules and limits at this level of our existance, and no amount of 'belief-changing' can alter that"

[21_12_2012]

Yes, I understand what you're saying!
But, one of the most basic, things that we need to have in mind is - 'Nothing has to be as it is! ' - Which ithink, is the main point David Icke's trying to make, in the books!

We cannot really live in oneness, because, in a way, Oneness seems to be Nothingness! But, we can reprogramme our Reality, to suit us!

This is another point i disagree on (to an extent)...reprogramming our realities.

We cannot achieve "ANYTHING we want" by changing our beliefs.
We can achieve "SOME things"

There are rules, and there are limits...there always have been and always will be 'at this level of existance'

I don't even think anybody knows exactly what true oneness really is...i doubt it is just 'nothingness'.
My opinion of true oneness is what a soul experiences at the highest of dimensions (some may refer to it as GOD level), whether this is 'achievable' i have no idea.
But even so, how can we disconnect from this reality and attempt to connect with TRUE oneness as Icke states?

[infinitely free]

I don't wanna bore anybody with my views, but it seems to me that - True Oneness is just like the time - when we are falling asleep -
At the time, we are falling asleep, we actually disconnect from the matrix! The reason for this is that as we are falling asleep('slipping away'), we are not experiencing any dreams yet. At such a time - we just Are - disconnected from any illusion,

("reality"'s just gone off and dreams haven't started, yet)
---------------------------------------

As for beating Time and Death - I am working on this (:) no matter what), but suppose I've got my personnal reasons, so ;) :rolleyes:...
-----------------

Above all, it is down to Knowlege (what some would call Illumination)

If we don't know that we don't know - we might as well be living in a box ;)

[aznality]

In my opinion, these 'psychics' have a slightly different DNA code than we have...very very slightly wider range of perception.
Which would explain why their sons/daughters often inherit the psychic 'gift'...Whereas the rest of us do not have it. Its like an 'error' in the DNA, but only very slightly.

Thanks for your reply. I agree with a few of your points actually.

That genetic inheritance of psychic abilities would make sense, although I still think ALL of us are somewhat psychic to an extent. I agree with you that most of us are still locked down, however we are all still able to connect to the ONE in my opinion. If we weren't, then we wouldn't have psychic moments. I feel that our minds are constantly trying to break down that barrier.

Do YOU believe outside the box? If so, how is your experience different to mine ? And what can you perceive/see/do/create differently that me? Do you have psychic powers ? Can you see spirits?
Let's just say when I woke up and grew more aware, I did start to notice things I have never before. Auras is one of them. Never noticed them before, but now I always see thin coloured layers around objects and people. Since I started practicing a lotta meditation, I have had some weird crazy visions from time to time (I can't even remember what I saw exactly, because I was not fully awake) and even felt an OBE once. I believe I have even been close to the ONE experience at one time when I meditated. I felt absolute stillness. Although I don't have psychic powers or are able to see spirits, my point is we can expand our horizons. I was as normal as you could get, now I experience paranormal things.


Its just my opinion that there are nowhere near 144 000 people enough for a mass-ascension.
I dont know if you 'believe' in ascension or not, but apparently that is the number that would be needed to take the whole population a level higher (mass ascension)
All i see when i go outside are people who appear to be more interested in watching big brother / pop idol and eating junk food and drinking beer.
Yeah, I sorta believe in that. I do think the 2012 thing is highly possible. But yeah, I know how you feel about a lotta the ignorant people. They are all over the place. But let's not forget there are a lot like us too. It's just that most of us may not be open like David Icke is.

[21_12_2012]

Thanks for your reply. I agree with a few of your points actually.

That genetic inheritance of psychic abilities would make sense, although I still think ALL of us are somewhat psychic to an extent. I agree with you that most of us are still locked down, however we are all still able to connect to the ONE in my opinion. If we weren't, then we wouldn't have psychic moments. I feel that our minds are constantly trying to break down that barrier.

I actually agree with that myself, there are times when things happen, thoughts happen, experiences that aren't like 'normal' everyday experiences, so perhaps yes we do break out from time to time in little ways...maybe its part of ascension (if you believe in that which i do), preparing us for bigger and better things...maybe changing our bodies and minds to perceive more and more.


Let's just say when I woke up and grew more aware, I did start to notice things I have never before. Auras is one of them. Never noticed them before, but now I always see thin coloured layers around objects and people. Since I started practicing a lotta meditation, I have had some weird crazy visions from time to time (I can't even remember what I saw exactly, because I was not fully awake) and even felt an OBE once. I believe I have even been close to the ONE experience at one time when I meditated. I felt absolute stillness. Although I don't have psychic powers or are able to see spirits, my point is we can expand our horizons. I was as normal as you could get, now I experience paranormal things.

Actually, my story is similar, and ive been able to 'sense' stuff since being a kid, but not always. LIke when the phones going to ring and who it is before i answer it...and if people are looking at me i can sense it and often turn round for no reason and catch people staring at me sometimes...and i can read people before i talk to them, and get a rough idea what theyre like.
But this has been with me all my life..i think we are born with slightly more wide perception of senses and this starts to fade away as we are conditioned into this world, but maybe all mine didnt totaly disappear and stayed with me..but nothing has expanded from this anyway.
I do meditate daily if i can too, but it just seems to still my mind.

Yeah, I sorta believe in that. I do think the 2012 thing is highly possible. But yeah, I know how you feel about a lotta the ignorant people. They are all over the place. But let's not forget there are a lot like us too. It's just that most of us may not be open like David Icke is.

Im sure 2012 is a major major time for mankind, its obvious by all the increased illuminati activity thats building up faster every day...it has to be headed for 2012...their goal of microchipping us all will be for before 2012..its all heading that way.
They know something is going to happen to makind in 2012, or else they wouldnt be rushing the agenda like they are now doing.
I think the chip is to further 'lock us into this reality' and stop our senses from expanding and 'waking up'.
I think the 'mass ascension' could go either way by the looks of it...it would probably depend on how many wake up in the near future. But, at least where i live, everyone i see is asleep !

[aznality]

I actually agree with that myself, there are times when things happen, thoughts happen, experiences that aren't like 'normal' everyday experiences, so perhaps yes we do break out from time to time in little ways...maybe its part of ascension (if you believe in that which i do), preparing us for bigger and better things...maybe changing our bodies and minds to perceive more and more.

I think more and more people may be becoming more "psychic" as a part of the ascension. But then again, there has always been psychic people throughout history.

I do meditate daily if i can too, but it just seems to still my mind.
Sometimes I question what 'oneness' is even about. I mean, absolute stillness and not thinking at all, is it the same as being dead? Is there much fun in the afterlife? I'm sure there is a lot more to it than that, but I haven't heard anything yet.


Im sure 2012 is a major major time for mankind, its obvious by all the increased illuminati activity thats building up faster every day...their goal of microchipping us all will be for before 2012..
They know something is going to happen to makind in 2012, or else they wouldnt be rushing the agenda like they are now doing.
I think the chip is to further 'lock us into this reality' and stop our senses from expanding and 'waking up'.
I think the 'mass ascension' could go either way by the looks of it...it would probably depend on how many wake up in the near future. But, at least where i live, everyone i see is asleep !

The microchip issue, I definitely believe. It isn't a coincidence Icke already knew about all this and published it in his books long before everyone even knew it existed. But not just that. The big brother state is moving in too. I also feel it coming in Australia. We are even having a new transport system in place where the tickets get replaced by some sorta credit card that is used specifically for transport. That means constant tracking. :confused:

Haha well, I'm in Melbourne, and it is a large city with 3 million. I'm sure there are a few of us here who are already awake. But it's difficult to say how many of us is there. But I have been browsing myspace in the past few days and have come across a lotta people who believe in ONENESS and ASCENSION and these similiar topics. That's one of the reasons why I feel there are many more of us than we think there is. And 5 years down the track, I'm sure it will continue to increase.

[21_12_2012]

Sometimes I question what 'oneness' is even about. I mean, absolute stillness and not thinking at all, is it the same as being dead? Is there much fun in the afterlife? I'm sure there is a lot more to it than that, but I haven't heard anything yet.

If you look on this page on this thread (just over half way down the page)
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3443&page=5
i wrote about a friend of mine who died in 2002, and how 2 psychics i visited gave me messages about him.
It is proof to me that the afterlife does exist, and he communicated to me 3 weeks after his death, through this psychic woman. And then a few years later another psychic woman also confirmed things about him, and that he is 'looking after me'
The afterlife isnt oneness, it is another form of this 'matrix' we live in.

The microchip issue, I definitely believe. It isn't a coincidence Icke already knew about all this and published it in his books long before everyone even knew it existed. But not just that. The big brother state is moving in too. I also feel it coming in Australia. We are even having a new transport system in place where the tickets get replaced by some sorta credit card that is used specifically for transport. That means constant tracking. :confused:

Its what is called the 'totalitarian tip-toe' (as Icke calls it)...little steps towards getting the public used to being tracked/watched/spied on and their freedoms taken away bit by bit, step by step..until finally the chip is brought out and made law. Thats their goal. But they cannot just move straight to doing that without the steps in between (such as fake terror/set up/sensationalising stuff like kids going missing etc)..'track your child wherever they go!...help prevent them from being abducted! Have them chipped !"....and the parents all fall for it, then itll become EVERYBODY being chipped, and the majority of the population will go along with that too thinking its a 'good idea'...'theyre doing it to help us and to fight terrorism'
Its a sad state, but thats the way it is heading.

Haha well, I'm in Melbourne, and it is a large city with 3 million. I'm sure there are a few of us here who are already awake. But it's difficult to say how many of us is there. But I have been browsing myspace in the past few days and have come across a lotta people who believe in ONENESS and ASCENSION and these similiar topics. That's one of the reasons why I feel there are many more of us than we think there is. And 5 years down the track, I'm sure it will continue to increase.

Good to hear theres people on myspace who are waking up to things anyway.
I have read that mysapce is owned by Rupert murdoch (illuminati) and they are monitoring and collecting details on 'conspiracy type people' on there...

[aznality]

If you look on this page on this thread (just over half way down the page)
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3443&page=5
i wrote about a friend of mine who died in 2002, and how 2 psychics i visited gave me messages about him.
It is proof to me that the afterlife does exist, and he communicated to me 3 weeks after his death, through this psychic woman. And then a few years later another psychic woman also confirmed things about him, and that he is 'looking after me'
The afterlife isnt oneness, it is another form of this 'matrix' we live in.
Oh alright, I see what you mean. I guess it is good we will still be living individual lives in the afterlife. See, I haven't touched much on this subject so yeah. =) I am planning to pick up some books on this subject soon though, after I'm done with Icke's works.

And I read your account of the psychic experience just now. I believe it. It is quite extraordinary that psychics are able to perceive such things. By the way, was there a particular reason why you booked an appointment with a psychic just before his death?

[21_12_2012]

Oh alright, I see what you mean. I guess it is good we will still be living individual lives in the afterlife. See, I haven't touched much on this subject so yeah. =) I am planning to pick up some books on this subject soon though, after I'm done with Icke's works.

And I read your account of the psychic experience just now. I believe it. It is quite extraordinary that psychics are able to perceive such things. By the way, was there a particular reason why you booked an appointment with a psychic just before his death?

The only reason i booked the appointment was that i was getting prepared to emmigrate to the USA with my american wife at the end of the year.
I just wanted to know if she could tell me anything about what might be in store for me there...but she talked more about my friend.
It just happened to be a 'coincidence' that he died 3 weeks before my appointment with her.

[cruise4]

If we are all one, where do 'more' people come from?
ie. to be one, you can't have bits missing because then we'd be almost all one