Poverty Trap

[lightworker2012]

I'm living in poverty. I simply do not have the money to live properly. Rents and bills are sky high. I have just about every bill you can name but I don't have the funds to pay them so they have all been referred to debt collectors. If I have a job the wages don't cover the out going costs. I voted for the Lib Dems last year because they would have abolished the unfair council tax. The British had the chance to elect a new government but they chose to vote for Tony Blair yet again. After all the fuss the British made about Tony Blair and the war on terror I was amazed when they voted him in (double standards). Please note I am not feeling sorry for myself. I am just explaining my situation and wondering if anyone else is going through similar things.

As I walk through the valley of debt I will fear no debt collector.:p

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

Shit man. I'm not going through it, but I feel your pain man.

[deca]

Dude go and see the cab (citizen advice bureau ) it might take a few hours to get an interview then a couple of weeks to see a specialized adviser but its well
worth it they now how to deal with debt collectors.I was getting phone calls of
these people demanding money and assorts of threatening letters.They sorted
them all out. I don`t get any hassle and I only pay 1 pound a month to some of
these debtors even thou I owe thousands.Plus if you get hassle from these people you just say cab are handling it so they can`t bullshit you.

Do it, you will feel better don`t let it build up and worry you.

[truthseeker1980]

I know how you feel, in a very similar situation. The cost of living doesn't match inflation wage increases or even the so called inflation crap.

I wanted to vote for Lib dems too, but we DON'T live in a democracy, there were no candidates standing/representing any party apart from Labour in my ward, so i had no choice other than to vote for Mr Blair, or not vote at all, which is what i did and wrote this is not a democracy over the ballot paper.

Just because there are no candidates standing in a local ward should not effect who we vote for to control the whole country, madness.

Another blatant in your face load of bollocks to even try and say we live in a democracy.

[eternal_spirit]

I've been on reduced benefit payments for over 6 months, I get the staggering amount of £45 a week! I made an appeal, lost the appeal, so nothing changes. I'm allowed to keep £28 a fortnight from my housing benefit
(rent money) Think I'll be going to Citizens Advice Bearua real soon.:( death seems an easier option at times.

Is there a prize for being the poorest fuck on the forum lol?

[deca]

Don`t let the bastards run you down.Fuck`em get a allotment grow your own food use your time wisely go on training schemes that will benefit you.

[truthseeker1980]

Do you think maybe there are forces at work, that keep us lot on this forum from getting out of the poverty? Just so we will never not be able to not worry and get depressed about not having enough money to live life properly.

[eternal_spirit]

Don`t let the bastards run you down.Fuck`em get a allotment grow your own food use your time wisely go on training schemes that will benefit you.

Yes, I've tried work experience before, there isn't anything else on offer. I'll have to try again. :D Theres stuff been going on, so much and still is I can't really explain on a forum, but feels like I'm being messed with not just the reduced payments.

[auron]

Dude go and see the cab (citizen advice bureau )

Damn right! I personally know someone who was up to her eyeballs in debt with all kinds of people. I told her to see the C.A.B and they sorted everything out for her, so that she was paying these scum fucks around £1 a week! I'd recommend going seeing them man, they will help you out.

[deca]

Think people should become less reliant on money and government to provide for
them.This is hard in the world we live in.We should try and rely on ourself more.
The more we do for ourself the more control we have over our life's. I want to grow my own food and generate my own power.

[deca]

My mum is a surviver if she`s broke she will make or recycle stuff and car boot it.I have seen her make few quid out of pennies

[auron]

Personally i stay away from any kind of money things, like credit cards and the like. Try to get it down to just you only, and pay only necessary things like electric, gas etc. Just learn to live on as little as possible and you'll be fine!

[deca]

I also use payment books and payment cards instead of direct debits I like to pay when it suits me and it stops a lot of bank charges.

[deca]

I am doing out my garage (i don`t have a car,I use a push bike to get me to work).I am going to turn it into a sort of bar with pool table so my friends and family can come and drink and smoke with no hassle might even make my own beer and wine.

[dickiebiz]

I have been going through the same thing with debts that have been refered to debt collection agency's.
I found that the reason (in my opinion) for debt collection agency's is to constantly pester you for a full payment which they know you cant give them. by doing this they keep you in a constant state of depression with know visible way out of the problem.
this works well for the system on more than one level.
First of all by constantly pestering you for payment they know you can't make they keep your mind in a state of confusion never allowing you to make sense of life and there for keeping you enslaved and stuck in your home, you cant go out because without money what is there to do.(every thing costs money)
And secondly by keeping peoples minds on their own problems they can divert peoples attention from the big problems in the world like third world suffering and the war on iraq. The goverment can also get away with their lie's and deceptions and can advance their agenda's with out our knowllage. It Proberly works on many more levels than i care to go in to or have time to address.

How ever i do have some good advise for you.
you could try getting in contact with the national debt help line like i have, they put me in contact with a debt management company that went through my incomings and out goings and helped me find out how much i can actually afford to spend each month on paying my debts with out getting in the way of important bills like rent, i then set up an account with the debt management company who are now in the process of contacting all of my creditors and are arranging payment with them based on what i can afford to pay out each month and not on what they want.
The debt managment company can do this because of a law that says that no one has to pay a creditor any more money per month than they can afford even if you ve signed a contract saying diffrent. they can also freeze any account so that you dont have to pay interest on accounts over due.

This to some satisfaction to me gets right up the noses of all creditors. they dont like it at all because they now have to comunicate with people who know what their talking about and can't be intimadated.

good luck with the debts.

Quote for the day== Never forget, Nothing lasts for ever. (even Debt):)

[deca]

Its hard when you ended up on the dole I have been there many a time you just
got to keep trying to dig yourself out it. I generally will go to a temp agency and
take the shit job knowing that it might lead to something better or it will look better to an employer that you are willing to work its not easy I have had to bite my lip a few times knowing I am working for a bunch of wankers walked out ,sacked a couple of times but you have got to keep trying no job is safe these days.

[melbo]

I've had calls from a debt collection agency regarding 'overpayment' of tax credits to the tune of £5,000, which is rubbish as I was entitled to the money. I am disputing it (for the third time) and if they still turn my appeal down I shall be visiting the citizen's advice bureau. They are very good for all kinds of legal problems and debt problems. They can advise you what you're entitled to claim (although its not worth it if they make you pay it back a few years down the line...) The C.A.B. are a charity, be wary of debt management agencies as some can take quite a cut.

Wages and benefits never go up in line with inflation, the poor seem to get poorer year on year, while the richest get richer.

Its no good telling people to grow their own food, not everybody is lucky enough to have the skills or land to do that, and you still have to work to pay the rent and bills. The system sucks and is well overdue a huge change.

[deca]

Yep the system sucks.I was just trying to get people to think how they could make the most of there time and money.I know how it is you get trapped plenty
of time and no money to do anything end up watching daytime tv worring about
how you can make it through the fortnight.

[joy division]

If you do not own any property just go bankrupt or just dont pay the cunts and let them make you bankrupt that way it wont cost you nothing, i am asuming you have loans and credit card debts. I think it cost about £400 to go bankrupt volutary.

As long as you dont mind not having credit/debit cards and a basic bank account for at least a year.

Look into it before you do it, but if you dont own anything they can take of you, Fuxck EM, if you do own a house just sell it, pay of your debts and rent.

[lightworker2012]

Hi I just wanted to thank everyone for their replys. I shall go to the CAB for help. :)

[freespark]

Think people should become less reliant on money and government to provide for
them.This is hard in the world we live in.We should try and rely on ourself more.
The more we do for ourself the more control we have over our life's. I want to grow my own food and generate my own power.

The problem here is that the whole system is set up to prevent people from existing outside of it. Oh sure it can be done but it's not easy i'm sure.

[seanx]

Lads, I've got to say it: You are responsible for this situation.

Not the 'cunts' or the 'system'.

It's easy to play along with all the rest saying everything is shit -
and it's not your fault. And that it's somebody's else fault.

This is not a criticism, lightworker2012 - money is not obviously
your thing - no doubt there are many more important things you
would love to concentrate on.

And 10 years ago I was in the same position as you. So
again, I'm not taking the piss.

Now, however I have lots of money.

How?
I truely realized that my deepest beliefs created what happened
to me. Not just an intellectual understanding but I REAALY grasped
and applied these ideas.

And they are the secret to true FREEDOM.

That's what it is all about.

Not money but the FREEDOM to create as much
or as little money as you need.

The first thing to do is get down to CAB and pay off a little.
Don't worry about your debtors - even a £1 a month.

Then - can I suugest the best book around on creating money and
freedom in your life - STUART wILDE's - The trick to money is having
some' . it's magic!


Whatever happens, mate - good luck

[whitenight639]

hey guys im having much the same problems as you but its looking better now, iv never been to the CAB, never had big enough debts but still unafordable, my one word of advice is to write to people (creditors, inland rev ect) they will respond alot more positivly than giving you the run around on the fone, and be realistic if its not managable then just tell them that and get a CCJ the courts wont order baliffs round if u havnt got anything of value (and if u have hide it!). If i was a homeowner i would do anything to keep my house and pay enough or the morgage untill i can sell it and move abroad!

[eternal_spirit]

Lads, I've got to say it: You are responsible for this situation.

Not the 'cunts' or the 'system'.

It's easy to play along with all the rest saying everything is shit -
and it's not your fault. And that it's somebody's else fault.

This is not a criticism, lightworker2012 - money is not obviously
your thing - no doubt there are many more important things you
would love to concentrate on.

And 10 years ago I was in the same position as you. So
again, I'm not taking the piss.

Now, however I have lots of money.

How?
I truely realized that my deepest beliefs created what happened
to me. Not just an intellectual understanding but I REAALY grasped
and applied these ideas.

And they are the secret to true FREEDOM.

That's what it is all about.

Not money but the FREEDOM to create as much
or as little money as you need.

The first thing to do is get down to CAB and pay off a little.
Don't worry about your debtors - even a £1 a month.

Then - can I suugest the best book around on creating money and
freedom in your life - STUART wILDE's - The trick to money is having
some' . it's magic!


Whatever happens, mate - good luck

You are taking the piss! I doubt you've ever known poverty with such a reply, you condesending bastard!

You think reading some book will give poor people the answer to get rich. Explain and tell us how you got rich quick?????
What job do you do?????

[whitenight639]

You are taking the piss! I doubt you've ever known poverty with such a reply, you condesending bastard!

You think reading some book will give poor people the answer to get rich. Explain and tell us how you got rich quick?????
What job do you do?????

I doubt seanx is is going to tell you after what u just called him! i do see your point and seanx's its easy to judge people, but life isnt fair and when u fall into the poverty rut its hard to get out, those who have money can only get richer (give me 50k and ill be a millionaire in 1yr i swear!). and those who are poor are faced with working really shit jobs (if they can get them) for very little money, just about cover the bills with no way of raising capital for there own buisnesses. I dont know how single parents can escape tho!

[oceanwave]

I voted for the Lib Dems last year because they would have abolished the unfair council tax.

you voted?...

...nuff said...

[eternal_spirit]

That's right whiteknight.

You can be talented, have qualifications and work experience, if you dont have the oppurtunity to prove yourself, like finding a job it can be frustrating.
I would like to have lot's of money, but I'd be happy to have enough to pay for the basics in life. I can't understand the saying, money cant buy happiness, that's a myth.

If I had enough money to be a boss and start up a buisness, I know I could pay the workers a good wage, I'd be happy and so would they.

[whitenight639]

That's right whiteknight.

You can be talented, have qualifications and work experience, if you dont have the oppurtunity to prove yourself, like finding a job it can be frustrating.
I would like to have lot's of money, but I'd be happy to have enough to pay for the basics in life. I can't understand the saying, money cant buy happiness, that's a myth.

If I had enough money to be a boss and start up a buisness, I know I could pay the workers a good wage, I'd be happy and so would they.

Damm right even if you made money selling cardboard boxes you would take happiness from paying your staff well. as for money cnt buy happiness i think they mean ALOT of money brings big decisions / responsibilities and test of ur friends loyalty but if you've got money u can always give it away! i would love to know where that myth originated.

as for being talented and having qualifications ect, iv been working with 2 bulgarian blokes that both have batchelors degrees but they are with me building walls with rocks! but that just sums up the UK.

[oceanwave]

I can't understand the saying, money cant buy happiness...

then you haven't...

...lived...

[whitenight639]

then you haven't...

...lived...

do please explain? we have all experienced the good things in life and the bad we are living but not alive, to me bieng alive is being able to provide for your family and do whatever you want when you want eg hey kids today were going rock climbing then skydiving then 2moz me and mum are going to india because we feel like it!

being alive is not a 9-5 and the same routine at home and at work, thats enslavement but without the visible shackles!

being alive is doing somthing totally random and getting into stupid situations, making people happy and dancing in the rain!

[oceanwave]

do please explain?

it's quite simple...

...only *you* can bring/create/experience "happiness"

...from your own devine will, aka "intent"

...you can be swimming in money but unhappy in life

...equally, you can have fuck all and be 'happy as larry'' (whoever he is :D)...

[whitenight639]

it's quite simple...

...only *you* can bring/create/experience "happiness"

...from your own devine will, aka "intent"

...you can be swimming in money but unhappy in life

...equally, you can have fuck all and be 'happy as larry'' (whoever he is :D)...

it all comes down to this:
if we have money we can have the basics to sustain life eg food drink ect
if we dont we will try and get them and if we are without for too long we will be unhappy, you cant argue that.. if you hadnt slept/ eaten for a week dnt think you would be happy.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/whitenight639/untitled.jpg

[eternal_spirit]

Right on whitenight.

[oceanwave]

it all comes down to this:
if we have money we can have the basics to sustain life eg food drink ect
if we dont we will try and get them and if we are without for too long we will be unhappy, you cant argue that.. if you hadnt slept/ eaten for a week dnt think you would be happy.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/whitenight639/untitled.jpg

who do you think created our dependance on money?...

...btw, i am not debating our need, or lack, of money

...but rather your query "money can't buy happiness"

...as far as i know, humanity did very well without money (and some still do, indigenous peeps for example) for thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of years

...money, like everything and anything else, these days is directed by will

...your will (intent)...

:)

[whitenight639]

who do you think created our dependance on money?...

...btw, i am not debating our need, or lack, of money

...but rather your query "money can't buy happiness"

...as far as i know, humanity did very well without money (and some still do, indigenous peeps for example) for thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of years

...money, like everything and anything else, these days is directed by will

...your will (intent)...

:)

Bankers! is who created our dependency on money its a 3rd party in an exchange of goods/ services!
I hear what your saying about indigenus peoples and i think they are probably the most happiest (they live natrually and dont know any better and dont get debt collectors!). what im saying is money can buy happiness if i had money i could afford a flight and live with the indigenus people!!

[eternal_spirit]

then you haven't...

...lived...


Think you missed the point, which is severe poverty not having enough to live.
Like, do I eat or pay the electric bill what sort of choice is that in the middle of winter say.

People with money dont have to worry about those sorts of things. If you had lot's of cash you could make others happy and inturn making yourself happy seeing others happy.

You cant go anywhere or do anything much without cash these days.

[oceanwave]

Bankers! is who created our dependency on money its a 3rd party in an exchange of goods/ services!
I hear what your saying about indigenus peoples and i think they are probably the most happiest (they live natrually and dont know any better and dont get debt collectors!). what im saying is money can buy happiness if i had money i could afford a flight and live with the indigenus people!!

fair enough...

...and kudos to you...

:)

[oceanwave]

Think you missed the point, which is severe poverty not having enough to live.
Like, do I eat or pay the electric bill what sort of choice is that in the middle of winter say.

People with money dont have to worry about those sorts of things. If you had lot's of cash you could make others happy and inturn making yourself happy seeing others happy.

You cant go anywhere or do anything much without cash these days.

i didn't miss the point, having been there myself...

...i was merely eludicating that it is *perception* that alludes to 'wealth/happiness' or lack thereof...

[eternal_spirit]

Yes, fairpoint ^^ alot of the good things in life are free he he.

[whitenight639]

fair enough...

...and kudos to you...

:)

why thankyou knew youd see it in a different light;) anyway what we really wanted to know is how you make your money then? hehe

[oceanwave]

why thankyou knew youd see it in a different light;) anyway what we really wanted to know is how you make your money then? hehe

"we"?... ;)

...like you do, through the system

...actually i am in my lowest paid job *ever* and i couldn't be more happier where i am

...as you may, or not, be aware

...my belief is that money, like everything else, is merely energy...once we accept that's all it is...

:)

[whitenight639]

''we'' meaning me and eternal spirit, anyway it really dosnt matter what people do for money aslong as its not for an evil corperation or government

i know what u mean by energy, iv been trying out this thing, iv somehow come up with this LOA kinda thing, when there is 2 possible outcomes i imagine a golden ball of light around the thing i want the posiitve outcome on and a dark kinda black hole around the thing i dont want to happen and it seems to work, im not crazy i just took positive thinking into a visual imagination kinda step it seems to work very well!
shows you what endless games of pissed up pool can do for you!

[john white]

Oceanwave is talking a lot of sense

Whatever we fear to lose: is not us

Laugh at "the system": its the one thing it cannot handle

[eternal_spirit]

The university of strife
The shift in the balance of funding for higher education from grants to loans has certainly had a big impact on young people. The typical graduate left university in 2006 with average debts of £13,252, according to NatWest bank.
The debt burden is likely to get heavier because of Labour’s controversial decision to introduce tuition fees: universities can now charge fees of up to £3,000 a year. The extra cost means students can easily run up debts of more than £22,000 if - over a three-year course - they take out the maximum student loan of £13,200, plus £9,000 in tuition fees.
OK, so they don’t have to pay off the loan immediately and they get a good finance deal through the Student Loan Company, but it’s no fun starting your adult life in hock.
It’s also very difficult to get out of debt. It’s a bit like trying to walk up an escalator that’s going down. James Conway, a student from Sussex, says: “It’s really quite daunting. You know you will have to pay off the debt before you can even think about buying a home or starting a family.”
No wonder most students expect to take on part-time jobs – 87%, according to the NatWest survey. That’s nearly twice as many as in previous years. And no wonder many students sponge off mum and dad.
Moving back in with mum and dad
The sponging doesn’t stop when they graduate because today’s young people often live at home.
Last year, 60% of men and 40% of women aged between 20 and 24 were living with their parents. There’s even a name for them: kippers – kids in parents’ pockets eroding retirement savings.
Chris Rhodes, director of retail banking at Alliance & Leicester, says: “The picture for the under-30s is dominated by student loans. A hangover of student debt is constraining their appetite for other borrowing and delaying their ability to get on the housing ladder.”
Young people simply can’t afford to move out. The average graduate salary is £17,230 a year, or £1,122 a month. But the average rent is between £300 and £500 a month. In other words, their rental payments account for more than a third of their take-home pay. (TAKE UP HALF YOUR INCOME IF YOUR ON MINUMUM WAGE (MY EMPHASIS ETERNAL)
Buying a home? Forget it…
If renting is beyond their financial reach, there isn’t much chance they can afford to buy a place of their own.
The average house price paid by a first-time buyer pushed through the £150,000 barrier for the first time in 2006. If you look back over the past five years, the average house price paid by a first-time buyer has almost doubled, rising by 95% from £77,914 in 2001.
Those are the national averages: the figures for London are even worse. The average first-time buyer in London paid more than £250,000 last year. At that price, they would have to pay stamp duty at 3%.
House prices rocketed by 204% in the 10 years to 2005. But incomes rose by just 96%.
The gap between house prices and incomes means that a typical first-time buyer cannot afford to buy the average house in 93% of towns, according to the Halifax. In 2001, only 37% of towns were unaffordable. It’s perhaps no surprise that the number of first-time buyers is estimated to have fallen to 315,000, the lowest annual total since 1980.
Shelter, the charity for the homeless, recently concluded that it is almost 100% harder to buy a home than it was 10 years ago. The startling statistic perhaps accounts for the rise in the number of repossessions. They reached 17,000 in 2006, 65% higher than in 2005.
The recent hikes in interest rates can only make things worse, especially for younger people who are already stretching their budgets. Michael Coogan, Director General of the Council of Mortgage Lenders, says: “Repossessions are likely to creep up to 19,000 this year and 20,000 next year.”

TAKEN FROM MSN TODAY NEWS

http://money.uk.msn.com/Planning/Life_Events/Dealing_With_Debt/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4837594

[seanx]

Crap from 'eternal spirit'


You are taking the piss! I doubt you've ever known poverty with such a reply, you condesending bastard!

You think reading some book will give poor people the answer to get rich. Explain and tell us how you got rich quick?????
What job do you do?????

It's called owning and running your own business.

And it's also called quit whining all your life - and take some
responsibility for yourself.

The 'Elite' or the 'system' - whatever you want to call them -
have you totally controlled, Mr. Eternal Spirit

They WANT you to believe that you are totally powerless- that
EVERYTHING is hopeless - that you can never 'beat' the system.

Everything is directed towards that purpose. They want you to believe
that you must be FORVER poor and at their mercy.

And By God - have they done a good job with you!

Of course a book can't make you rich - but the f**** IDEAS in it
can.

You lads, keep ignoring or missing the POSITIVE message in
david icke's ideas.

We're not at their mercy if we change our vibrations - our deepest
beliefs and feelings about what is possible for us.

We can break out of the spell of powerlessness the illiminati have us
in.


As for your comments about poverty - I know exactly what it is -
more than you ever probably will.

But the comments I made to lightworker were in good faith - to offer
him another perspective OTHER than the litany of negative,
'we're-all-dooomed' crap he was getting.

You may be an eternal spirit - but that doesn't mean you have
to live in eternal poverty.

There is nothing GOOD about poverty unless it is consciously
chosen as a way of life.

[eternal_spirit]

seanx it's nothing to do with willing money into your life, you can think that you're a money magnet all you're life, it wont suddenly manifest itself into you're bank account, so don' try tell us other wise.

The only reason you have money now, is that you thought out a good plan in you're mind, then went out into the real world and physically made it happen.

Maybe you need help from some masons or something ? I'm sure you needed a loan from the bank to put you're plan into action.

Think you need to read some of the threads in the poverty trap.
If you star a business and it goes bust, you'll be in even more debt.

Stop jumping to conclusions, about some of us, you dont know the facts about how we became trapped in poverty, it's to do with uncontrollable actions of other people in some instances, victims of circumstances beyond our control.
I'm concluding that you're under 30 and had some help to start you're own business.

It's different for people like Icke, he was allready a famous sports presenter on national Tv, I remember seeing him when I was akid, he was allready a household name, that was his platform to fame, regarding his books, no one would of heard Of Icke, if this wasn't the case let alone bother to read his books, the neagtive attenion he got in the press actually helped him to sell his books, I for one wanted to read and see what all the fuss was about. eternal poverty lol like that. ha.

I may be poor but, I have many qualities that the rich will never have.

[starfire56]

:mad: as a fellow poverrtitarian stricken member, the last few winters have been cold,hungry, just paying the basic bills,i have no credit cards,i knew i could not afford them. i am suffering from diabetis i have done for years. i do not owe a great deal, but paying for washing machines,etc no sooner you have paid for one they break and you have to get another one,they are it seems designed to break,you can rent,we can not afford it. i have terrible trouble in the winter buying enough gas,electricity, trying to live as you put it but we exist dont we ,we are not allowed to live,we are trapped,we want a way out, i wud love to grow food but i cant tend it as my healthis not good., all the food on thesupermarket shelves another reminder of looking atstuff we cant afford to buy not even the basics. i like to read david icke books cant afford any more things have gotten much worse for all of us over the last few years. There is hope, always is it a sin to be poor in this day and age,yes i think it is dont you. some of us have no choice.i have no choice yet i know the answer will come. get a sack of poatoes,bags of rice,cheap eggs,cut price bread, go to the market to buy soup broth mixture, get cheap cuts of meat. not out of date. make a stews, soups, chips homemade, stuff like pies made with butter wil last longer than stuff made with margerine( that is poisonous so is oils like veggy oil,use a little olive oil,get a pressure cooker and cook your stew in that, lasts for two days, when on offer fill your freezer up with buy one get one free offers. buy special offers,trouble is cant afford the special offers all the time. but i scrape by not buying istant food,you cant pay your bills if you are dead! i eat some tinned cheap fruit, cheap icecream, use cheap porrige, pasta,cheap tomatoes and beans,make toastie sandwiches, cheap bacon cuts and buy offcuts of ham cheap from a famous freezer stuff store. get powered milk from the market they sell dried stuff,broth ,mixture,porrige,rice all makes, butterbeans,cereals, peas,lentils pearl barley, you name they got it cheaper than supermarket stuff,treats i buy occassional sausage rolls my son who is on the dole,insists on cheap pop. dreaded cola,moody git at times,we have to suffer in all ways,he was ADH i think, the cheap bread is disgusting, milk keeps going up but our allowances dont. i will be a pensioner in 4 years!!! i get frozen veg, diced onions,mushrooms,veg mixes oriental veg is going cheaper these days, green cut beans,cheap gravy mix no room for luxuries, because the fresh stuff goes off at the supermarket have you noticed!!!! cuppa soups cheap make and noodles for my son cheap. but i dont say i enjoy some of the food i am forced to eat, its something at east, but i am mother hubbard often. whoops i forgot to pay the tv licience, i get text messages all the time ,it is against the law you can get arrested for that, constant worry hey!!!! i know what you mean dear fellow povertitarian. where will be in 5 years time,dead do you think or eating worse that we have or are forced to, we have no choice. we dont buy rubbish we cant afford to waste our precious little even war rations were better and kept the nation healthy, did it!!!!!that and second hand cloths,but hey primark a new cheap store but i heard they are sewn up by foriegn sweat shop labour,oh my god we will have to be naked then. grants you have to apy back out your benefit, they call it benefit who does all this crap really benefit!!!!!!! we are trapped and cannot get out of it,
this david icke site gives me hope and is educating me on how to break free! i want to break free lets all us povertitarians join forces!!!! what about that.!!!!! what about the woman or man looking after children, living in worse poverty. you think there are no worse ones than us, there are our children are undernourished in fact suffereing from malnutrition,even if you are looking fat, you can eat and still suffer from malnutrition you know. medication can make you fat and really bloated, the stuff i am on side effects can make your kidneys fail!!!!!make your liver eventually fail!!!!!! so perhaps we should start a povertarian group to put pressure on the government to take notice of us the small voice in the wilderness. we shall overcome!!!! yeh we will have to make them listen!!!!!what about those who are crippled who cant and have to pay for help to change their soiled nappy she had to stay in it for 16 hours it was reported in the local paper,because they changed a law so those suffer we all suffer lets get cracking hey we will not be silenced you may dear fellow povertitarian have given me a great idea. thank you for your message it has fin:D ally woke me up

[seanx]

seanx it's nothing to do with willing money into your life, you can think that you're a money magnet all you're life, it wont suddenly manifest itself into you're bank account, so don' try tell us other wise.

The only reason you have money now, is that you thought out a good plan in you're mind, then went out into the real world and physically made it happen.

Maybe you need help from some masons or something ? I'm sure you needed a loan from the bank to put you're plan into action.

Think you need to read some of the threads in the poverty trap.
If you star a business and it goes bust, you'll be in even more debt.

Stop jumping to conclusions, about some of us, you dont know the facts about how we became trapped in poverty, it's to do with uncontrollable actions of other people in some instances, victims of circumstances beyond our control.
I'm concluding that you're under 30 and had some help to start you're own business.

It's different for people like Icke, he was allready a famous sports presenter on national Tv, I remember seeing him when I was akid, he was allready a household name, that was his platform to fame, regarding his books, no one would of heard Of Icke, if this wasn't the case let alone bother to read his books, the neagtive attenion he got in the press actually helped him to sell his books, I for one wanted to read and see what all the fuss was about. eternal poverty lol like that. ha.

I may be poor but, I have many qualities that the rich will never have.

That's your view of reality - one it seems of chronic negativity.

We all have our own beliefs - and thus we will all experience the
affects or consequences of those beliefs in the reality we experience.

In the long run, it makes no difference as they are all just temporary
creations.

i wrote to offer lightworker ANOTHER perspective on what is possible -
and not another negative depressing view.

I have the right to offer him this view of reality just as you have
the right to offer him your negative, it's-all-hopless view.

What's WRONG with saying you can be successful?

What wrong with saying that things CAN change?

if lightworker can change( if he wants to- he may not. His choice)
how he feels at a deep cellular level - really let himself feel new
positive thoughts literally deep in the white of his bones -
amazing things can happen.

The world - all around him, down to the tiniest things will all start
to change and reality will start to mirror this new genuine feeling.

But in my opinion, you MUST REALLY FEEL THIS - it's not
a question of thinking postive thoughts or thinking yourself
to a new reality.

This must be something you feel in your blood - A real knowing.

That why I recommended Stuart Wilde book - 'The trick to money is
having some'.

it explains in a real practical way how beliefs/ deep feelings can
change your life.

So that's the perspective I'm offering him. You've offered yours -

There is more than one reality.

[eternal_spirit]

sean you're full of shit and an insenstive F*** you are denying reality.

[seanx]

sean you're full of shit and an insenstive F*** you are denying reality.

Great reply, mate.

I too have been in poverty. Sharing a floor in an highbury bedsit with a swarm of coachroaches - and if I has your view of reality - I'd still be
there. So go and F***your negative crap on somebody else.

Things CAN change.

I just read this description of how things can change by I am. Explaines
it much better than I do.

LOA is not all about money. It is about attracting everything that you desire: Health, wealth, happiness, a change in your life, anything. It does not work by just saying that you wish to be a millionaire. That is just greed and is a fear based wish. People who try this are coming from a point of fear: fear of poverty, fear of getting sick, fear of the unknown etc. This will not work.

It is about vibration. It is about vibrating in sync with the universe, not an easy state to attain. It is impossible from a fear-based vibration. When people are ‘trying’ to manifest they are putting conditions on. These conditions are about control and control is fear-based so the vibration is wrong. You want to be rich because you are sick of being poor. Your vibration is with being poor and that is negative. Take note of how that feels. Instead, see yourself doing what you want when you want. Feel it. Enjoy it. Love it! Believe it. Feel the difference in vibration. You may well become a millionaire if you really get a handle on this. I know someone who did. Did she focus on that? Not at all. Her focus was on a happy life for her and her children. She put the LOA into action and after it worked so well, she wrote about how it had worked. She is now a millionaire travelling the world and talking to people.

[eternal_spirit]

This is some of the stuff I buy at the supermarket.

Buy big bags of fruit it works out cheaper(bumper packs or family packs)
Oranges, apples, (potatoes or try buy a big sack from the local farm)
Onions, lemons bananas, carrots.

If you're lucky some Supermarkets sell off stuff that's almost out of date they have a shelf full some days. Fruits always good and less than half price, the stuff that's usualy unafordable, kiwi, berrys, etc. Look out for the bread to you can stick some in the freezer.

Supermarkets own brand stuff is cheaper too...margarine, eggs, cheese, froxen peas and sprouts, chocolate spread, marmalade , pickled onions, (beetroot a drummers favourite vegetable lol) tinned tomatoes, beans, pasta, veggie mince, chili powder, italian mixed herbs, spices, makes a wicked bolognese, you can make enough for two dinners, some for the next day, same goes for a stew or soup. Buy a big jar of yeast extract which is cheaper than marmite (same thing) for flavour and full of b vitamins folic acid etc. :)

[eternal_spirit]

Quote by seanx

LOA is not all about money. It is about attracting everything that you desire: Health, wealth, happiness, a change in your life, anything. It does not work by just saying that you wish to be a millionaire. That is just greed and is a fear based wish. People who try this are coming from a point of fear: fear of poverty, fear of getting sick, fear of the unknown etc. This will not work.

It is about vibration. It is about vibrating in sync with the universe, not an easy state to attain. It is impossible from a fear-based vibration. When people are ‘trying’ to manifest they are putting conditions on. These conditions are about control and control is fear-based so the vibration is wrong. You want to be rich because you are sick of being poor. Your vibration is with being poor and that is negative. Take note of how that feels. Instead, see yourself doing what you want when you want. Feel it. Enjoy it. Love it! Believe it. Feel the difference in vibration. You may well become a millionaire if you really get a handle on this. I know someone who did. Did she focus on that? Not at all. Her focus was on a happy life for her and her children. She put the LOA into action and after it worked so well, she wrote about how it had worked. She is now a millionaire travelling the world and talking to people.


Eternal's reply below.....
Don't give me that LOA crap, you're insulting mine and many others intelligence.

I suggest you go and read the post by King and adramelech in The secret of the secret thread, they have got it spot on.

[seanx]

I won't give you that 'crap' - if you stop filling this forum with chronic,
negative - 'we're-all-powerless- we're-all- doomed' rubbish.

[mk72]

Hi Lightworker2012 - I sometimes think that people don't care about other people's problems, that is why there is such a big difference between the haves and the have nots. The haves wastes their money on shit and think life owes them, they think poor people are there because it's their own fault, while they live in a world were everything is cheaper and more dispossible not thinking they are using more petrol, dumping stuff others can use and wearing clothes manufactured in sweatshops. We should help each other instead, we all have a responsibility, not handouts just help where we can. I found a job for a young guy the other day, because I'm better off, I can go to a coffee shop in a expensive part of town and ask the manager if they need waiters, he would never have known, he's never even been to that mall in his life because he is too poor - that is not his fault. If we helped each other this world would be a different place, and if I'm wrong what harm would be done?
I hope your life change, and I hope somebody care about your problems, even if its only to cheer you up and feel more positive. Keep us up to date

[seanx]

People talk about poverty as if it is a fatal, incurable condition.

As if they are powerless before it.

As if they are powerless victims who must take whatever fate throws at
us and surrender.

Well that one version of a reality. You're welcome to it if you want it.

The illuminati have spend erons trying to make humanity believe it.

They have succeeded.

But there is also another version of reality which anyone can join if
they are willing to retune their vibrations to enter.

We can be free if we want.