How do you like your steak Sir......

[limelady]

.......raised or lab-grown?

In the not too distant future, this a question you are likely to be asked when you go to your local restaurant for a steak meal, and I just wondered what you guys think of the idea of In vitro meat (not to be confused with imitation meat, which can be a vegetarian meat-alternative food product made from vegetable protein.

Invitro-meat is REAL meat grown in a laboratory!

Before you all start shuddering at the thought of eating 'lab-grown' meat, there are some real advantages being touted:

* Animals would not have to suffer the torment of the slaughter-house, or suffer the indignities and oft cruel sets-ups of the factory-farm

* In vitro meat may be cleaner and less prone to disease than animals, provided that donor cells are not contaminated.

* The grown meat would also be free from the growth hormones and antibiotics that are a staple part of the feed lots used to raise many animals in intensive in factory farming set-ups like many countries utilise now.

* Meat may become a healthier food source than it currently is now, due to the elimination of the chemicals mentioned above, and the fact that the growing conditions would allow for the control of the fat and nutrient content of the meat.

I'm not a very big meat eater....'almost' vegetarian actually, however, now and then I feel like eating a little meat and always feel better for having done so. Unfortunately, I hate the fact that I am eating a slaughtered animal, so the idea that healthy meat (real meat) can be grown in a laboratory and eaten virtually guilt-free is intriguing to me.

A viable alternative to the slaughter of millions of animals annually for the purpose of food is something I have always thought should be looked into as a matter of urgency, and it looks like this is now in the pipeline. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if this gets off the ground.

Anyway, I'm posting some links for you to ponder.

Test Tube Meat Nears Dinner Table
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/06/71201

Will the Petri dish put Daisy out to grass?http://www.vatfood.com/cruelty-free.html

In vitro meat
In vitro meat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[lookfar]

Thanks for the post Lime, very interesting issue.

I must admit I first cringed at the title, but when put into perspective this actually sounds like the way to go to eliminate all the cruelty & crap that's pumped into these poor creatures & makes their short lives hell.

I'm also not quite veggie yet (have been a few times & then got urges for bacon sarnies or roast lamb!) It certainly seems like an interesting alternative, although I bet they manage to sneak some dodgy stuff into the meat in the lab eh?!

Mmm definitely food for thought....:)

[pollock]

That would make me an instant vegetarian!
But interesting issue for sure, my problem is I have a hard time eating any form of prossesed food at all so artificial meat, grown in a lab, invented by who knows who? I dont think so!
Besides if people only ate the meat thats needed to stay healthy and grew and hunted their own food, there would be no need for growing fake animals in labs, we need a change of mind not a change of diet, imo!

Love
F

[tommi]

I'm sorry but it sounds disgusting to me..

I was a veggie for years but relapsed lately, I still don't eat much meat though and I'm going back to being a veggie again very soon..

You could bet your last quid that it will be GM'd to the hilt and according to a leaflet I was given over a year ago KFC are already going this with their chicken burgers et al.

[limelady]

artificial meat, grown in a lab, invented by who knows who? I dont think so!

Its not artificial meat - its the same structure as REAL meat....only difference is one is grown on the animal the other in a petri-dish.

I knew the thought of it would make some of you feel sick...lol... but try and think of it more as a way of preventing the need to raise and slaughter many millions of poor animals each year, and then it doesn't seem so bad. Seems a lot less barbaric to me.

However, like any new ideas, this one may take a while to catch on, but if you cant tell the difference at the dinner table, then what's the big deal?

I sincerely hope there is GM over-sight, and one can only hope it won't be jammed full of worse chemicals than those already in the meat we eat now.

[welfarewarrior]

motherfucking shitballs for breakfast dear :)

[tommi]

Absolutely no way on Gods earth would I eat it and I would strongly advise anyone to do the same, in fact that is it, I'm completely cutting meat out altogether now.

People assume vegetarians are frail but this is really not the case at all. When I was a dedicated vegetarian I was unbelievably quick and strong. I used to practice ninjutsu and my body was so light from not eating meat that I could move all the way around someone quicker than they could turn round. My punching power soared and my bones got stronger. I developed lightning reflexes too, simply because I had no meat in my system weighing me down.

Trouble is, is that most people are stumped as what to eat when they leave meat out of their diets. Admittedly, you have to do research and be more creative in your cooking but the benefits are brilliant..

[garth]

motherfucking shitballs for breakfast dear :)

WTF has this got to do with meat??

[lookfar]

WTF has this got to do with meat??

Hmm, troll food...!?!

[peter19]

intresting like, but im not sure about it, i dont eat much meat at all really only abit of fish or praws or something now and then. and its one of them things if you were doing it yourself and you knew what was in it it could be more appealing. also how would they create the meat?. would they let the muscle grow to a certain weight and then kill it too eat it?. if it was grown in a dish or something wouldnt it need to be a-live for a certain peried then eaten?. i dunno.

[bigus_dickus]

.......raised or lab-grown?
Unfortunately, I hate the fact that I am eating a slaughtered animal, so the idea that healthy meat (real meat) can be grown in a laboratory and eaten virtually guilt-free is intriguing to me.

A viable alternative to the slaughter of millions of animals annually for the purpose of food is something I have always thought should be looked into as a matter of urgency, and it looks like this is now in the pipeline. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if this gets off the ground.

this is only your belief. the "slaughter" thing, it's only an idea and you hate it.

but, for what reasons? is it because you can identify more with animals than you do with plants? the reality is that plants, is what's keeping everyone alive and they are very much alive, more alive than most of the people who are sleeping. they are consciousness, they live, feel, reproduce, communicate, react, it is just a different form of life that is a "host" to everyone of us, even the animals.

so, are you only waiting for fruits to fall on your head? are you aware of what happens to a flower when you pull it from the ground?

[fantana]

this is only your belief. the "slaughter" thing, it's only an idea and you hate it.

but, for what reasons? is it because you can identify more with animals than you do with plants? the reality is that plants, is what's keeping everyone alive and they are very much alive, more alive than most of the people who are sleeping. they are consciousness, they live, feel, reproduce, communicate, react, it is just a different form of life that is a "host" to everyone of us, even the animals.

so, are you only waiting for fruits to fall on your head? are you aware of what happens to a flower when you pull it from the ground?

Which is what? It dies? I think I may go and pick some flowers up now for my lover (I actually have many, and Im not even slightly gay)

You can of course go and cry over a dead flower. I will be out doing manly things such as shooting squirrels and then eating them.

Au reservoir!

P.S - Who said they were lightning fast and a strong as a vegetarian? How many vegertarian World Champions have there ever been?

zero!

[limelady]

this is only your belief. the "slaughter" thing, it's only an idea and you hate it.

but, for what reasons? is it because you can identify more with animals than you do with plants? the reality is that plants, is what's keeping everyone alive and they are very much alive, more alive than most of the people who are sleeping. they are consciousness, they live, feel, reproduce, communicate, react, it is just a different form of life that is a "host" to everyone of us, even the animals.

so, are you only waiting for fruits to fall on your head? are you aware of what happens to a flower when you pull it from the ground?

Plants don't have a fully developed central nervous system and a brain like humans and animals do - plants react to stresses sure, and they are 'living' sure, but they don't feel pain or experience suffering in the same way animals and humans do.

[tommi]

P.S - Who said they were lightning fast and a strong as a vegetarian? How many vegertarian World Champions have there ever been?

zero!

World champions at what you plonker?

For your information, most top athletes revert to a vegetarian diet coming up to a big event!

[bigus_dickus]

Which is what? It dies? I think I may go and pick some flowers up now for my lover (I actually have many, and Im not even slightly gay)

don't you see it die?

what you don't see, or perceive, is what it does when you are cutting it. it too wants to live.

You can of course go and cry over a dead flower. I will be out doing manly things such as shooting squirrels and then eating them.

you can go and cry over a dead anything, but you are too picky ;)

P.S - Who said they were lightning fast and a strong as a vegetarian? How many vegertarian World Champions have there ever been?

zero!

nutrition depends on many things and not on what kind of form of life you are consuming. if you need to be physically fast and strong, you feed off flesh of fast and strong. if you need to be mentally fast and clear, you feed off flesh of mentally fast and clear. or something..

we also have preferences in which animals to eat and which to leave alone. for example, "western" cultures do not usually include insects in their diet, other cultures do. and this diet, is far from being unhealthy and non nutritional, we just pick for stupid reasons some times, food has to look good as well and of course not be attributed with thoughts and beliefs of disgust, or with thoughts of emotional attachment.

[bigus_dickus]

Plants don't have a fully developed central nervous system and a brain like humans and animals do - plants react to stresses sure, and they are 'living' sure, but they don't feel pain or experience suffering in the same way animals and humans do.

so what?

[limelady]

so what?

So you are sure living up to your name!

[fantana]

don't you see it die?

what you don't see, or perceive, is what it does when you are cutting it. it too wants to live.



you can go and cry over a dead anything, but you are too picky ;)



nutrition depends on many things and not on what kind of form of life you are consuming. if you need to be physically fast and strong, you feed off flesh of fast and strong. if you need to be mentally fast and clear, you feed off flesh of mentally fast and clear. or something..

we also have preferences in which animals to eat and which to leave alone. for example, "western" cultures do not usually include insects in their diet, other cultures do. and this diet, is far from being unhealthy and non nutritional, we just pick for stupid reasons some times, food has to look good as well and of course not be attributed with thoughts and beliefs of disgust, or with thoughts of emotional attachment.


Just for the record, real men like myself dont cry.

World champions at what you plonker?

For your information, most top athletes revert to a vegetarian diet coming up to a big event!

I was on about the Internation Meat Eating Contests held anually, of course. Only real men need apply.

What top athletes would you be talking about who go on a vegertarian diet ocming up to a big event? An event as big as the IMEC?? (International Meat Eating Contest)

[tommi]

I was on about the International Meat Eating Contests held annually, of course. Only real men need apply.

I guess you won't be entering that one then :D

[fantana]

I guess you won't be entering that one then :D


Its a scandal, the damn height restrictions keep HMHTs like myself out. Im planning on keeping my hair growing, as when I gel and spike it and have my comfy shoes on (I wear them because they are comfy not due to the 2 and half inch heel) I can actualy get away with 5 foot 8. So I plan to be there this year.

[tommi]

Its a scandal, the damn height restrictions keep HMHTs like myself out. Im planning on keeping my hair growing, as when I gel and spike it and have my comfy shoes on (I wear them because they are comfy not due to the 2 and half inch heel) I can actualy get away with 5 foot 8. So I plan to be there this year.

Why don't you just glue about 5 steaks to each foot and put on a pair of slippers, worked for Ronny Corbet..

[bigus_dickus]

So you are sure living up to your name!

i don't know what means you :)

all i know is i was spot on: "is it because you can identify more with animals than you do with plants?"

[auron]

I'll be sticking to my potatoes and cheap noodles, thank you very much!

:)

[bigus_dickus]

Just for the record, real men like myself dont cry.

that's taking picky-ness to the extreme.

[ah42]

Au reservoir!


LOL

[ah42]

Its a scandal, the damn height restrictions keep HMHTs like myself out. Im planning on keeping my hair growing, as when I gel and spike it and have my comfy shoes on (I wear them because they are comfy not due to the 2 and half inch heel) I can actualy get away with 5 foot 8. So I plan to be there this year.
LMFAO!!!...I love these interloper people... so funny...Can I just ask that the mods dont ban this one....He's the best weve had yet!!!

[bigus_dickus]

LMFAO!!!...I love these interloper people... so funny...Can I just ask that the mods dont ban this one....He's the best weve had yet!!!

why would they ban him? he is fantana, man!

[tru3]

nutrition depends on many things and not on what kind of form of life you are consuming. if you need to be physically fast and strong, you feed off flesh of fast and strong. if you need to be mentally fast and clear, you feed off flesh of mentally fast and clear. or something..

we also have preferences in which animals to eat and which to leave alone. for example, "western" cultures do not usually include insects in their diet, other cultures do. and this diet, is far from being unhealthy and non nutritional, we just pick for stupid reasons some times, food has to look good as well and of course not be attributed with thoughts and beliefs of disgust, or with thoughts of emotional attachment.

i'm not a vegan, but i don't eat meat at every meal, either. still, there's nothing like a bag of 'sliders' at 2:00 a.m. on a sunday morning to make you feel alive!

here are some other points to ponder.

1. animals destined for human consumption today are stressed to the max. this reduces the flavor of the meat. have you ever tasted kobe beef? when you treat an animal with love, they taste better. imagine that. :)

2. animals destined for human consumption are so inbred that they have to be practically hermetically in a bubble, lest they get infections and die as a herd.

3. forget the moral implications of meat, the economics of meat consumption alone justify taking a look at veganism.

Feeding the world
We are in the midst of what has become known as the ‘livestock revolution’ in the developing world*. Meat consumption is projected to rise there by a massive 3 per cent per annum until 2020, by which time 63 per cent of global meat production and slightly more than half (50.3 per cent) of global milk production are expected to be from the South. 68
Rather than helping to alleviate world hunger, this ‘revolution’ is likely to prove detrimental to the task of feeding a growing human population. Other than in areas where animals are fattened predominantly on grazing land that
could not easily grow food crops for direct human consumption, or else where they eat primarily crop residues or other waste products, livestock farming actually wastes resources. This is because grain-fattened animals take more
energy and protein from their feed than they return in the form of food for humans. Much of the food value of the grain is wasted in bodily repair and maintenance.
2.1 The inefficiency of animal foods - food conversion rates
Commentators differ in their assessment of the efficiency of animal farming because they apply different criteria to their calculations. Those sympathetic to the livestock industry might omit some factors - perhaps losses through
disease or transport costs for feed - that a more critical observer might include. It also depends upon the type of diet on which animals are fed and the proportion of their lives in which they consume high protein feeds. For
example, a vested interest organisation such as the US National Cattlemen’s Beef Association has claimed that it takes only 4.5 kg of grain to produce 1 kg of beef raised intensively in a US feedlot. 69 On the other hand, the US
Department of Agricultural Economic Research Service puts the figure at 16 kg of grain to produce 1 kg of beef. 70Similarly, the UK poultry industry claims that through selective breeding it has improved feed efficiency to the point where it takes only 1.6 kg of feed to produce 1 kg of weight gain per animal, but this takes no account of the fact that by its own calculation the total edible meat yield from each bird is only 33.7 per cent of the total carcase. 71 Once the inedible part of the dead animal is taken into account, the ratio of grain to meat becomes considerably higher.
Given that there is no such thing as the ultimate accurate scientific calculation, the following assessment by the US Council for Agricultural Science and Technology (CAST) - an organisation that would claim to have no bias - gives a useful indication. The statistics, based upon a survey of several other studies, are particularly relevant since they include conversion rates for feed to finished product, as well as the more often quoted feed to weight of animal when slaughtered.

http://www.plantsforhunger.org/PDF/CIWF%20Eat%20Less%20Meat.pdf

4. If you have handled the whole mental disgust thing, i'd be happy to send you a nice, fresh, piping hot loaf of head cheese (souse, for you brits) for christmas, b.d. :D

http://www.karlehmer.com/ProductImages/0375SuelzeLarge.jpg

mmm! mmm! mmm! just like mum used to make!

[tru3]

I'll be sticking to my potatoes and cheap noodles, thank you very much!

:)

beefaroni's good, too.

we're having beef-a-RO-ni....

[bigus_dickus]

1. animals destined for human consumption today are stressed to the max. this reduces the flavor of the meat. have you ever tasted kobe beef? when you treat an animal with love, they taste better. imagine that. :)

i don't disagree at all with your post and with what you wrote.

however, this is only a practical reason and not an ideological one, that i have addressed. i haven't addressed the practical at all ;) thanks for giving me a chance.

this is the result of the industrial society that we, meaning me and you personally, live in. our whole environment gets the same "treatment" as our food and so do we ourselves. we even do it to ourselves alone, knowingly.

it also means, that every vegetable food is also contaminated and also grown with similar tactics and intentions. i can find and copy-paste lots of text, but i don't think it is necessary.

what use would a self sufficient farmer have for all that info? and why would he want to read it?

4. If you have handled the whole mental disgust thing, i'd be happy to send you a nice, fresh, piping hot loaf of head cheese (souse, for you brits) for christmas, b.d. :D

http://www.karlehmer.com/ProductImages/0375SuelzeLarge.jpg

mmm! mmm! mmm! just like mum used to make!

lol, i don't know what that is, and i don't think i would eat that. i don't eat quality food only when i'm too hungry ;)

and i don't have such issues as disgust, if it's tasty and good, it's food.

but, i don't intend to suggest to you what to eat. i never did!

how about this possible scenario:
they deliberately contaminate food and the atmosphere (the industries), so we will need the antidotes they make (the same industries). lots and various and endless forms of antidotes to everything conceivable.
how about this: once they have contaminated all meat and turned all humans to vegetarians, it will be easier for them to poison humans through the vegetation.

or how about this:
there would be more vegetation needed to feed the extra animals, plus the much more extra vegetation needed to feed all the humans and supplement the lack of meat. one natural disaster, and whole generations will be without food. where will all these animals go? who is going to grow? how will our carnivore animals feed? how long before all humans get outnumbered by animals and get extinct?

i just don't know :rolleyes:

[tru3]

lol, i don't know what that is, and i don't think i would eat that. i don't eat quality food only when i'm too hungry

and i don't have such issues as disgust, if it's tasty and good, it's food.

but, i don't intend to suggest to you what to eat. i never did!

i'm just pulling your leg, b.d.! :p lol if you don't know what it is, you don't WANT to know.

i read "the jungle" by upton sinclair in junior high, and i didn't eat a hot dog for 10 years. :eek:

this is the result of the industrial society that we, meaning me and you personally, live in. our whole environment gets the same "treatment" as our food and so do we ourselves. we even do it to ourselves alone, knowingly.

it also means, that every vegetable food is also contaminated and also grown with similar tactics and intentions. i can find and copy-paste lots of text, but i don't think it is necessary.

that's a very astute observation. this world is, on one level at least, a slaughterhouse, isn't it?

g-m crops are going to become the norm. you think maybe the bees are pissed off about this?

how about this possible scenario:
they deliberately contaminate food and the atmosphere (the industries), so we will need the antidotes they make (the same industries). lots and various and endless forms of antidotes to everything conceivable.
how about this: once they have contaminated all meat and turned all humans to vegetarians, it will be easier for them to poison humans through the vegetation.

i think this is quite likely, actually. get them in the stomach, and you've got them by the short 'n' curlies, to paraphrase david's newsletter.

[limelady]

=bigus_dickus;35132]i don't know what means you :)

You were acting in accordance with your name on this forum ;)

all i know is i was spot on: "is it because you can identify more with animals than you do with plants?"

You are spot on! I do identify more with animals because they are living breathing creatures whith free will and a central nervous system and brain that allows them the kind of functionality that plants don't have. So in that regard, I see animals as a higher form of life, and I guess you could say my abilty to empathise with creatures who are more like us directs my connscience.

In fact, that was the point of my original post. If you remember, I said I don't eat a lot of meat, and due to my empathy towards animals I don't feel 'good' about the fact that I am eating something that was once living and breathing, relating with others of its kind, and feels pain and anguish just like myself in my present physical form.

That's where I'm at, but I do respect where other may be on this position because I understand there are may layers to all this and many ways one can look at it all.

All I can say is that if given the opportunity to chose a source of real meat that wasn't once a living, breathing creature before it hit my dinner plate (and providing it was 'safe' with regards to contaminants), I would jump at it. However, like others have stated already, it is unlikely (given the nature of the present 'controllers' and their intentions towards humanity), this food would be any healthier once it comes under their influence.

So I guess we once more get back to it being the system, those who control the system, and our being 'programmed' into it that needs understanding at the most fundamental level of our collective and individual awareness level.

Thanks to all for your comments....I appreciate you took the time to respond.....even our friend fantana, who sucessfully managed to hijack this thread for a time. :D

[bigus_dickus]

You were acting in accordance with your name on this forum ;)

really, how is that?

You are spot on! I do identify more with animals because they are living breathing creatures whith free will and a central nervous system and brain that allows them the kind of functionality that plants don't have. So in that regard, I see animals as a higher form of life, and I guess you could say my abilty to empathise with creatures who are more like us directs my connscience.

i can fully understand your point of view, as i have had that belief -and guilt- myself. now, i don't know what to believe, or if i believe anything.

for example, why not see plants as a higher form of life, sustaining the atmosphere and us and the animals, offering themselves in abundance to all and not asking anything in return?

don't mind me, i'm just being a bigus of a dickus :)

In fact, that was the point of my original post. If you remember, I said I don't eat a lot of meat, and due to my empathy towards animals I don't feel 'good' about the fact that I am eating something that was once living and breathing, relating with others of its kind, and feels pain and anguish just like myself in my present physical form.

of course i remember. it was the reason i posted in this thread.

That's where I'm at, but I do respect where other may be on this position because I understand there are may layers to all this and many ways one can look at it all.

sure thing!

[ah42]

why would they ban him? he is fantana, man!
Well they banned king of the mountain and some others who I found highly entertaining. In a non gay way of course.

[jinjo5]

Well they banned king of the mountain and some others who I found highly entertaining. In a non gay way of course.
Dont you think that saying you found it entertaing in a non-gay way is actually.............gay.:eek: ;)

[garth]

here are some other points to ponder.

1. animals destined for human consumption today are stressed to the max. this reduces the flavor of the meat. have you ever tasted kobe beef? when you treat an animal with love, they taste better. imagine that. :)


I have some first hand knowledge here, I was born & breed on the land and spent 18 months working in a large beef abatoir, the vibe in the place was chilling, the air was thick with the smell of adrenalin, death/fear permiated the slaughterhouse, I only worked on the slaughterhouse floor for a week, and lost me lunch everyday from the horrific fear/death vibe of he place..YUK..it was like a reptilian bloodfest.This freezing works packed amongst other things about 15 tons of burger meat destined for macca's in the US everyday.
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/a/aa/CattleRestrainedForSlaughter.jpg

But the stress dosen't start at the meat works, it starts when the cattle arounded up on the farm & yarded to wait for the truck. This is when the real stress begins, they get crammed into a stock truck, usually herded with the use of an electric stock prodder http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4536/miniwaspprodderqu0.jpg
(like a tazer but less volts about 4000), then carted away, sometimes over a 1000 miles with no stops, food or drink. The are unloaded into the stock yards at the meatworks, where they can wait up to 24 hours to be processed. All the time they are herded and moved by some rather horrible people with stock prodders, the whole thing is sick. I have witnessed every part of this process as a young fella.
http://www.exploreveg.org/issues/i/transport.jpg


I have wondered it all the adrenalin and fear that is embodied in this meat at the time of slaughter is responsible for modern mans need to aquire new highs, seek out adrenlin pumping persuits, is it because we have been reared on meat loaded with the stuff, and are continually seeking more..sort of adrenalin dependance..just a thought


2. animals destined for human consumption are so inbred that they have to be practically hermetically in a bubble, lest they get infections and die as a herd.

this is true of a lot of feedlot or intensively managed beef operations, the majority of the beeding program is undertaken via artificial insemination, meaning sperm from a small select number of bulls is harvested and inseminated into a multitudes of females, narrowing the gene diversisty. Brings low disease tolerance, particularly in feedlot/barn type operations wher stock is in close company at all times.


3. forget the moral implications of meat, the economics of meat consumption alone justify taking a look at veganism.


As I said i was born & bred on the land, the family farm is all grass feed dairy production with some animal fattening, no supplementary feed brought in from anywhere, definitley no grains. When I was younger I used to be involved in "filling the freezer" with meat, these animals were done where they stood in the paddock, had no idea what was going on. was very differnet tasting meant to he factory farmed, supermarket pedling , plastic trayed muck that is available today. I am not a big meat eater, but need some every now and again, sorry for the graphic nature of this post, don't want to gross anyone out, but thought it might be useful for a first hand account.

For factory faming see
www.themeatrix.com if ya havn't already seen it

On a lighter note...if there is one to be had, you can't beat walking around a paddock (about 5 acres) with about 250 cows in it, wonder up to one and give her a big cuddle, cows are very effectionate, tis the best:)

[limelady]

Hi garth,

Yes, the horror of what goes on in slaughter houses is blood chilling. Its like a real reptilian blood-fest, and I can only imagine the amount of fear energy the reptilians siphon off from these poor animals that are treated so badly. :eek:

The following image is mild in comparison to actually going and seeing what goes on in these places.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3424/240slaughter1zl5.jpg


The information at this site tells the whole horrendous story about our meat production and how live stock atre treated until they become dead stock.

http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery/cattle1.htm

Give me REAL meat made in a labortory any day thanks!

[jinjo5]

Hi garth,

Yes, the horror of what goes on in slaughter houses is blood chilling. Its like a real reptilian blood-fest, and I can only imagine the amount of fear energy the reptilians siphon off from these poor animals that are treated so badly. :eek:

The following image is mild in comparison to actually going and seeing what goes on in these places.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3424/240slaughter1zl5.jpg


The information at this site tells the whole horrendous story about our meat production and how live stock atre treated until they become dead stock.

http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery/cattle1.htm

Give me REAL meat made in a labortory any day thanks!
When it comes to animal cruelty i buried my head,i cant bear it,its just too upsetting.
A friend of my daughter sent her a video of dogs that were put in cages only a few inches depth,this video showed,i think it was taiwanese men just shoving these cages from a lorry,the dogs yellped and were in absolute distress........i was shocked to the core,i cant bring myself to see anymore videos of cruelty,i cant tell you how much it sickens me.
Its cruel beyond belief...............but lets keep this reptilian thing out of it please,its bad enough without bringing that into it.

[i am all i am]

http://www.madcowboy.com/ .........the home page.

ABOUT HOWARD

"As a fourth-generation family farmer in Montana for almost 40 years, I speak from a background of personal experience when I say that chemically based agricultural production methods today are unsustainable, and therefore ecologically disastrous. My experiences range from working in a large organic dairy to raising registered beef cattle to owning a large factory feedlot. I have farmed thousands of acres of grain and reproduced a herd of over one thousand commercial beef cows. In addition to raising cows, I have raised chickens, pigs, and turkeys. I have also grown crops such as wheat, barley, oats, corn, alfalfa, and grass.

I was involved in agriculture at a time when the call dictated getting bigger and better or getting out. I was educated in modern agriculture, and I can tell you from firsthand experience -- it is not sustainable. I followed all the modern advice and turned a small organic family farm into a large corporate chemical farm with a thousand range cows, five thousand head of cattle in a factory feedlot, thousands of acres of crops, and as many as thirty employees. I saw the organic soil go from a living, productive base to a sterile, chemical-saturated, mono-cultural ground produced by my so-called modern methods.

In 1979, a tumor on my spinal cord caused me to be paralyzed from the waist down. That changed my life forever. I promised myself that, whatever the outcome of the surgery, I would dedicate the rest of my life to doing what I believed to be right -- no matter what changes that necessitated.

The period before and after the surgery gave me much time to think about the changes resulting form my methods of farming. Convinced that we were going the wrong way, I decided to become a voice for the family farmer and the land. In 1983, I sold most of my farm and started working for farmers in financial trouble. This led to my working for the Montana Farmers Union and from there to Washington, D.C. as a lobbyist for the National Farmers Union.

For five years I worked on Capitol Hill for America's family farmers. In that time we had some small successes, such as passing the National Organic Standards Act. But even after the act became a law, it took the administration several years to allow funds for its implementation. I became convinced that the changes needed had to come from the producer and the consumers at the grassroots level. Until that alliance is put into play, the big money interest will continue to control public policy in the Congress of the United States."

"The question we must ask ourselves as a culture is whether we want to embrace the change that must come, or resist it. Are we so attached to the dietary fallacies with which we were raised, so afraid to counter the arbitrary laws of eating taught to us in childhood by our misinformed parents, that we cannot alter the course they set us on, even if it leads to our own ruin? Does the prospect of standing apart or encounttering ridicule scare us even from saving ourselves?

That prospect intimidated me once, and I can only wonder now what I was frightened of. It's hard to imagine, now that I'm a hundred thirty pounds lighter, infinitely healthier, more full of life and energy, much happier. Now that I have vegetarian friends wherever I go, and feel part of a movement that is not so much political as it is a march of the human heart. Now that I understand how much is at stake. Now that I've come to relish shaking people up.

I would love to see the meat industry and the pesticide industry shaken up, too. I would love to see feedlots close and factory farming end. I would love to see more families return to the land, grow crops for our own species, and raise them organically. I would love to see farm communities revive. I would love to know that I've wandered into my nation's heartland by the sweet smell of grain and not the forbidding smell of excrement.

When you can't take it with you, all that really matters is what you leave behind."*

Howard F. Lyman, LL.D

http://www.madcowboy.com/01_AboutPS.000.html

Hot Debate Over Chicken Dung; FDA Wrestles With Whether To Ban It And Other Waste From Cattle Feed: (04/22/04): "A mountain of chicken dung - among other things - is preventing the Food and Drug Administration from banning blood, chicken waste and restaurant leftovers from cattle feed, a top administration official said yesterday. In the scramble to keep mad cow disease from spreading after a Holstein from Yakima County was diagnosed with the brain-wasting illness, the FDA recommended in January what seemed like simple and sensible restrictions on cattle feed.

In an interview yesterday, Sundlof [director of the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine] provided no likely deadline for the new bans, only assurances that progress was being made. But Sundlof did offer some explanations for the delays. He said, for example, that the proposed ban on adding chicken litter (fecal matter, dead birds, feathers and spilled feed) generated huge concern from chicken producers. Sundlof said adding chicken litter to cattle feed is one of the primary methods of waste disposal for the chicken growers, especially in the Southeast. "From an environmental standpoint, what are people going to do with the poultry litter?" he asked. "One of the benefits of doing this was that it was an environmentally sound way of recycling the material.""

Mmmmmmmmm.........meat.......no thank you.

As to the death of animals vs plants.......wake up !!!

When you kill an animal, the chi (energy) that gave the animal life leaves the body. It is called "death". If what you eat you become (physically that is), then would this mean that you (an infinite being) cause your own "death" (the chi leaving the body) by eating meat ???

When you eat a banana for example, the plant is still living, the banana itself continues to ripen, it's chi is still present, and therefore, it is still "alive". Do you see the difference ???


Two great books for understanding plants are.........

The Psychic Power of Plants - John Whitman.

The Secret Life of Plants - Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird.

With LOVE.

[lumukanda]

i wouldn't eat that lab meat, but i also have problems with slaughtering animals, my girlfriends parents have a farm, and so for the past 8 years or so i've been exposed to the reality behind those little packets of meat in the supermarket and i don't like it.
i'm much like you limelady, i prefer eating veggies, i also like fish (even though seafood is a rape on a massive scale!) but every now and then i feel the urge for a decent piece of meat, but all said and done, i think that cutting out meat is the way forward, i mean really, we kill an animal to eat it's flesh? not nice, but someone once posted something really striking about eating meat :

the right way
http://www.accd.edu/pac/history/hist1302/buffalo.jpg

the wrong wayhttp://www.limousin.co.uk/beef/images/slaughterhouse.jpg

if you're going to eat meat, you can at least kill the animal and watch it die yourself, with respect of course.

[bigus_dickus]

Mmmmmmmmm.........meat.......no thank you.

As to the death of animals vs plants.......wake up !!!

whoa! i just woke up! :D

When you kill an animal, the chi (energy) that gave the animal life leaves the body. It is called "death". If what you eat you become (physically that is), then would this mean that you (an infinite being) cause your own "death" (the chi leaving the body) by eating meat ???

When you eat a banana for example, the plant is still living, the banana itself continues to ripen, it's chi is still present, and therefore, it is still "alive". Do you see the difference ???

yes, yes, i see it. i see it! i am going to live! oh man, thanks for waking me up, now i will be immortal. from now on my soul will live forever.

just kidding :)

[limelady]

IAAIA said.....
When you kill an animal, the chi (energy) that gave the animal life leaves the body. It is called "death". If what you eat you become (physically that is), then would this mean that you (an infinite being) cause your own "death" (the chi leaving the body) by eating meat ???

Here's an interesting thought.

If you could grow meat that was just as good or even better than killing a living animal for its meat, how would you categorise that meat?

In a way it is living as it grows, yet it's unlikely to have any chi life energy in the way we all understand it, so since the grown meat cannot really be considered alive (no chi), you cannot really kill it to cause it's death either, can you?

So do we have here a new category of non-living-non-dead, just "is" or "neutral" food?:confused:

BTW A lot of the non-meat foods people eat are also DOA at the dinner table. Grains, and all dried foods, and of course processed and milled foods are TOTALLY stripped of all their life force (and almost all of their nutrient value) well before eaten....and alas, these food groups constitute a HUGE part of the average human diet in the forms of breads, brekky cereals, sugars etc.

Maybe that's why much of the populace seem almost 'brain dead' or 'sheep-like' to us?

EDIT: Felt I should add here that amazingly enough "dead" foods like sun-dried wheat or barley etc, when given water and a growing medium, will begin to sprout and turn into a 'living' food once more!

[i am all i am]

Here's an interesting thought.

If you could grow meat that was just as good or even better than killing a living animal for its meat, how would you categorise that meat?

In a way it is living as it grows, yet it's unlikely to have any chi life energy in the way we all understand it, so since the grown meat cannot really be considered alive (no chi), you cannot really kill it to cause it's death either, can you?

So do we have here a new category of non-living-non-dead, just "is" or "neutral" food?:confused:

G'day Limelady.

Personally, I do not consume meat or dairy products and avoid any food with 'numbers' in it, for over 8 years now, and I have benefited greatly from eating this way.

As there is an abundance of variety of food to eat, I would personally find that it is unnecessary to eat anything grown in a laboratory.

As to your questions.....

1. I would class it as artificial.

2. No you cannot realy kill it if it isn't alive.

3. Cloned food could be the new category.

With LOVE.

EDIT:- I thought of this before and didn't put it in so......The question that I asked myself when I decided to change what it is that I eat was, "What is the purpose of me eating ?". This question allowed me to view the food that I eat with a new perspective, and gave me an understanding of the eating 'habits' that I had formed over my lifetime, and what they had created for me physically.

[ah42]

Dont you think that saying you found it entertaing in a non-gay way is actually.............gay.:eek: ;)
But, darling...maybe I am .......GAY!!!!!!

[wheresmyparachute]

Great post! I'm sick now but your words are so true and we need to hear them all of the time!!! I often wonder if places like Kansas have the terrible tornados and floods that they do because there is literally miles and miles and miles of... stock yards and cattle processing plants there. I've only past that way once and it was enough! Tornados may be mother natures way of rebelling....?

by the way, nice birdie - is that your baby? -

-Kait

[limelady]

Great post! I'm sick now but your words are so true and we need to hear them all of the time!!! I often wonder if places like Kansas have the terrible tornados and floods that they do because there is literally miles and miles and miles of... stock yards and cattle processing plants there. I've only past that way once and it was enough! Tornados may be mother natures way of rebelling....?

by the way, nice birdie - is that your baby? -

-Kait

Hello wheresmyparachute

Wow you dug this thread out from the depths!!!!

If you were talking to me re my ave, no its not my birdie...this is my parrot here:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47867&postcount=28

BTW....is that YOUR MacCaw in your av? If so, why don't you upload a nice big photo of him/her to the "For the Love of your pets" thread so we can all admire his/her beauty?

LL :D