infinte oneness and the beginning of the matrix

[themadmirror]

hi, i am a first time poster with a enourmous question.

I believe that our "matrix" reality can be traced back to "oneness" this makes perfect sense to me bar one though I have. and this is it.

In the beginning there was oneness and through some means there was a division and the identification of self and other was created.
the "some means" has me confused.
in a state where there is no polarity, no movement, nothing and everything all at once in a state of not needing...(blah blah blah - however you personally describe the state i speak of) what created the first division?
if nothing moves why did it move?
does this mean that there is an external influence effecting the oneness?
does this mean that even the oneness is trapped inside its own matrix?
conciousness itself trapped in a program surrounding it?
did it do it of its own accord?
any thoughts anyone has on the topic would be greatly appreciated.
regards
MM

[marpat]

hi, i am a first time poster with a enourmous question.

I believe that our "matrix" reality can be traced back to "oneness" this makes perfect sense to me bar one though I have. and this is it.

In the beginning there was oneness and through some means there was a division and the identification of self and other was created.
the "some means" has me confused.
in a state where there is no polarity, no movement, nothing and everything all at once in a state of not needing...(blah blah blah - however you personally describe the state i speak of) what created the first division?
if nothing moves why did it move?
does this mean that there is an external influence effecting the oneness?
does this mean that even the oneness is trapped inside its own matrix?
conciousness itself trapped in a program surrounding it?
did it do it of its own accord?
any thoughts anyone has on the topic would be greatly appreciated.
regards
MM


How can something external be the cause?

I dont think the unified state is so sterile that nothing can occur. To my thinking the first thing that would occur is movement caused by becoming aware, as we can be in a state of balance then decide to move. Maybe you should look into the Hindu concept of the night of the gods.

[lizzy]

July 25, 2008
Alan Watt "Cutting Through The Matrix" LIVE on RBN:
"Hey, Have You Heard, Why, It's All the Rage?
Science, Sustainability Joined with the New Age,
The Latter, a Religion to Tie It Together,
To Bind Us as One, All Wound with a Fetter,
Dazed Devotees Simply Haven't a Clue,
That Their Creed has been Borrowed from the Hindu,
Their Collective Intellect Boils Down to a Smidgen,
As They Scoff at, yet Practice, a Belief called Religion"


you will find a link to Alan Watt in the media section........his site is called cuttingthroughthematrix.........

[marpat]

July 25, 2008
Alan Watt "Cutting Through The Matrix" LIVE on RBN:
"Hey, Have You Heard, Why, It's All the Rage?
Science, Sustainability Joined with the New Age,
The Latter, a Religion to Tie It Together,
To Bind Us as One, All Wound with a Fetter,
Dazed Devotees Simply Haven't a Clue,
That Their Creed has been Borrowed from the Hindu,
Their Collective Intellect Boils Down to a Smidgen,
As They Scoff at, yet Practice, a Belief called Religion"


you will find a link to Alan Watt in the media section........his site is called cuttingthroughthematrix.........


Is that relevant to this thread and if so who is to say that Alan Watt is the ultimate authority on the nature of the universe.

[themadmirror]

How can something external be the cause?

I dont think the unified state is so sterile that nothing can occur. To my thinking the first thing that would occur is movement caused by becoming aware, as we can be in a state of balance then decide to move. Maybe you should look into the Hindu concept of the night of the gods.

thankyou, I will look into the night of the gods.

My reasoning behind thinking that there was a static state in the purest form of oneness comes from tracing back the growth and expansion of everything. the following is my thought trail behind my query...
I can see that actions have reactions and actions ripple outward creating a sequence of events. If i trace this in reverse there becomes fewer and fewer actions that the reactions stem from. boiling down to polarity being the second phase and unity being the first.
in order for anything to move there has to be some form of polarization be it compression and rarfaction or from here to there.
the only place it can go back from polarization is one.

I have been reading one of Davids books -infinite love is the only truth- and I find his viewpoint amazing.
he describes the oneness as still for my lack of a better word. this makes sense to me.
I have always wondered what caused the one to become two then more then more and more.

[disorder2k8]

Read: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31623

Dont think of it as a being. Because then you will always ask, what is 'above' or higher than one, god etc.

[themadmirror]

thankyou for your advice I see the wisdom in it however cannot extinguish the feeling that the universe is a being and always has been.
and the link, I hadn't thought of the beginning stages as building the first atom... interesting view you have.

I'll share my idea

there was one source. it was all that is. a state of pure potential.
for "some reason" something moved. giving a floating point of reference.
"I can move! existance and 1d time(aka distance)...cool!"
"I can move this and keep this still...fixed reference. yay!"
"I can move this more between the still points... scale. yay!"
"I can do this moving thing sideways im in 2d wow
how far can i take this?
explosion of experimental movement and creation reaching levels of dimentional complexity only know to its self
realization that this movement is something
realization that It itself is something
"what am I?" -big moment
how can I tell what I am if I am all there is?
how can I see what I am?
If i can see me like i can see the movement i make,I can see what i am.
creates models of its ability to percieve in order to view itself
isnt satisfied with the results
and builds another
and another
and another
our universe or the matrix is just one of its models used to view itself
we are the atomic vibrational universe model 1.2.3.4.5
the version that explores this crazy mess.
model probably discontinued.

Just an idea on the first moments of existance.
:)
curiosity is another thing i have always pondered the origin of...

[marpat]

thankyou, I will look into the night of the gods.

My reasoning behind thinking that there was a static state in the purest form of oneness comes from tracing back the growth and expansion of everything. the following is my thought trail behind my query...
I can see that actions have reactions and actions ripple outward creating a sequence of events. If i trace this in reverse there becomes fewer and fewer actions that the reactions stem from. boiling down to polarity being the second phase and unity being the first.
in order for anything to move there has to be some form of polarization be it compression and rarfaction or from here to there.
the only place it can go back from polarization is one.

I have been reading one of Davids books -infinite love is the only truth- and I find his viewpoint amazing.
he describes the oneness as still for my lack of a better word. this makes sense to me.
I have always wondered what caused the one to become two then more then more and more.


If something moves within itself it creates opposing motions and then these combine to form other more complex motions. That is how it can be expressed in its most simple form. There is a good book that covers exactly this sort of topic called the Cosmic Doctrine by Dion Fortune.

[disorder2k8]

Very good I like that idea too.

Its very similar to the RA Material: "Law of One" http://www.lawofone.info/

For anyone not familiar, Abridged Overview>

The first known thing in the creation is infinity. The infinity is creation. The Infinity became aware. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. “Logos” or “Love.” The next step is an infinite reaction to the creative principle following the Law of One in one of its primal distortions,the law being " freedom of will ".

The energy moves from the intelligent infinity due to the outpouring of randomized creative force, this then creating patterns which in holographic style appear as the entire creation no matter which direction or energy is explored. These patterns of energy begin then to regularize their own local, rhythms and fields of energy, creating dimensions and universes.

The energies moved in increasingly intelligent patterns until the individualization of various energies emanating from the creative principle of intelligent infinity became such as to be co-Creators. Thus the so-called physical matter began. The concept of light is instrumental in grasping this great leap of thought as this vibrational distortion of infinity is the building block of that which is known as matter, the light being intelligent and full of energy, thus being the first distortion of intelligent infinity which was called by the creative principle. The One is both simultaneous and infinite.

This light of love was made to have in its occurrences of being certain characteristics, among them the infinite whole paradoxically described by the straight line, as you would call it. This paradox is responsible for the shape of the various physical illusion entities you call solar systems, galaxies, and planets of revolving and tending towards the lenticular.

The intelligent infinity discerned a concept. This concept was discerned to be freedom of will of awareness. This concept was finity. This was the first and primal paradox or distortion of the Law of One. Thus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness. Due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity there is no ending to many-ness. The exploration, thus, is free to continue infinitely in an eternal present.

The galaxy and all other things of material of which you are aware are products of individualized portions of intelligent infinity.As each exploration began, it, in turn, found its focus and became co-Creator. Using intelligent infinity each portion created an universe and allowing the rhythms of free choice to flow, playing with the infinite spectrum of possibilities, each individualized portion channeled the love/light into what you might call intelligent energy, thus creating the so-called Natural Laws of any particular universe.

Each universe, in turn, individualized to a focus becoming, in turn, co-Creator and allowing further diversity, thus creating further intelligent energies regularizing or causing Natural Laws to appear in the vibrational patterns of what you would call a solar system. Thus, each solar system has its own, shall we say, local coordinate system of illusory Natural Laws. It shall be understood that any portion, no matter how small, of any density or illusory pattern contains, as in an holographic picture, the One Creator which is infinity.

he process is from the larger, in your illusion, to the smaller. Thus the co-Creator, individualizing the galaxy, created energy patterns which then focused in multitudinous focuses of further conscious awareness of intelligent infinity. Thus, the solar system of which you experience inhabitation is of its own patterns, rhythms, and so-called natural laws which are unique to itself. However, the progression is from the galaxy spiraling energy to the solar spiraling energy, to the planetary spiraling energy, to the experiential circumstances of spiraling energy which begin the first density of awareness of consciousness of planetary entities.

Each step recapitulates intelligent infinity in its discovery of awareness. In a planetary environment all begins in what you would call chaos, energy undirected and random in its infinity. Slowly, in your terms of understanding, there forms a focus of self-awareness. Thus the Logos moves. Light comes to form the darkness, according to the co-Creator’s patterns and vibratory rhythms, so constructing a certain type of experience. This begins with first density which is the density of consciousness, the mineral and water life upon the planet learning from fire and wind the awareness of being. This is the first density.

The spiraling energy, which is the characteristic of what you call “light,” moves in a straight line spiral thus giving spirals an inevitable vector upwards to a more comprehensive beingness with regards to intelligent infinity. Thus, first dimensional beingness strives towards the second-density lessons of a type of awareness which includes growth rather than dissolution or random change.

Picture, if you will, the difference between first-vibrational mineral or water life and the lower second-density beings which begin to move about within and upon its being. This movement is the characteristic of second density, the striving towards light and growth. A very simplistic example of second-density growth striving towards light is that of the leaf striving towards the source of light.

The third density is the density of self-consciousness or self-awareness. The striving takes place through the higher second-density forms who are invested by third-density beings with an identity to the extent that they become self-aware mind/body complexes, thus becoming mind/body/spirit complexes and entering third density, the first density of consciousness of spirit.

And it does get very long so read more here > http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=13&sc=1&ss=0

[shankara]

hi, i am a first time poster with a enourmous question.

I believe that our "matrix" reality can be traced back to "oneness" this makes perfect sense to me bar one though I have. and this is it.

In the beginning there was oneness and through some means there was a division and the identification of self and other was created.
the "some means" has me confused.
in a state where there is no polarity, no movement, nothing and everything all at once in a state of not needing...(blah blah blah - however you personally describe the state i speak of) what created the first division?
if nothing moves why did it move?
does this mean that there is an external influence effecting the oneness?
does this mean that even the oneness is trapped inside its own matrix?
conciousness itself trapped in a program surrounding it?
did it do it of its own accord?
any thoughts anyone has on the topic would be greatly appreciated.
regards
MM

Hi MM! Good question! I get the sense that you're thinking of the state before the division as a certain nothingness or non-being, and if that were the case, you would be correct in assuming that being or movement cannot come from emptiness, nothingness, or non-being. However, the One (aka Being) is full of potentialities, infinite expressions, and movements, so much so that from our limited mentality we see these expressions as being contradictory.

For instance, many believe that because God/Oneness is the Absolute, the stillness, the silent witness without scar of differentiation, that the world and individual identity must be an illusion. I believe that The Absolute is just that, and all possibilities (both unity and the multiplicity of forms) are contained within it's infinite embrace. This has always been the case. There was not a silent and still Oneness in the beginning (time does not apply infinitely anyways) and today a Oneness, a "One without a second" with an unreal yet pervasive illusion and deception that has been forced upon the omnipotent One against It's Will. In the beginning there was a Oneness, and today there is a Oneness.

Division was created the same way we divide things conceptually that are truly one. For example, When I observe an analyze my own thoughts, I am the knower, the knowledge (my analysis and conclusions) and the known (my thoughts that I am analyzing), yet I separate myself in 3 different concepts. We do this because it is the nature of the lower mind to separate and divide. We would not even be able to proceed mentally with separating. This concept can be applied to creation. God is the creator, the creative force, and the creation. God creates of Himself, and God gives Himself infinitely to each projection (each self is both the drop and the ocean at once), so that, until egoistic thinking is transcended, each projection says to itself "I am this, but I am not that."

But this ignorance and egoistic mentality has happened by design, and the One is not threatened or limited by it's playing at being finite and separate selves. From the perspective of the One, the transitory pleasures and pains that we as limited selves experience as extensions of the One are blissful.

Is that helpful at all?

[lizzy]

Is that relevant to this thread and if so who is to say that Alan Watt is the ultimate authority on the nature of the universe.

LOL.yup, I did get the wrong thread here......:D

[abrilliantone]

Infinite Oneness is a seamless energy field in which Everything and Nothing Exist.

[noobcybot]

Hey Madmirror!
I have heard some sources state that there was infinite oneness, until a rift caused by an evil entity from inside the "Christ" consciousness separated some souls from it and trapped them in the matrix reality. I believe this could be possible. But it is a little basic. We have a lot of people call "the bringer of light" the prince of lies, probably not just because lies often bring about negative karma and the biblical sense that to lie was a sin, but because he created the whole lie that is our reality. It might depend largely on perspective.
Personally though I believe that there has to be existance of some kind and it is manifested by interaction between opposing force in our reality and in other dimensions. I do however also think that there might be a middle point between the opposing forces, where the energy for their interactions and manifestations come from. This middle point might be where the "infinite oneness" resides. This makes sense to me when you talk about the idea stillness. Of course the idea of vibrational frequencies forming our reality could easily co-exist with this theory. Perhaps when we die or when we astrally project etc... go get closer to or even reach the one consciousness.

[shankara]

Infinite Oneness is a seamless energy field in which Everything and Nothing Exist.

How can non-existence exist? How can non-being be?

[shankara]

Hey Madmirror!
I do however also think that there might be a middle point between the opposing forces, where the energy for their interactions and manifestations come from. This middle point might be where the "infinite oneness" resides. This makes sense to me when you talk about the idea stillness.

If the opposing forces are getting their energy from the Oneness, does this mean they are part of the oneness? Doesn't the idea of 'infinite' mean that it is omnipresent and ubiquitous, residing not only at a middle point but everywhere, even expressing Itself as "opposing" forces?

[abrilliantone]

How can non-existence exist? How can non-being be?

because I can:)

[abrilliantone]

If the opposing forces are getting their energy from the Oneness, does this mean they are part of the oneness? Doesn't the idea of 'infinite' mean that it is omnipresent and ubiquitous, residing not only at a middle point but everywhere, even expressing Itself as "opposing" forces?

Yes:)

[danster82]

hi, i am a first time poster with a enourmous question.

I believe that our "matrix" reality can be traced back to "oneness" this makes perfect sense to me bar one though I have. and this is it.

In the beginning there was oneness and through some means there was a division and the identification of self and other was created.
the "some means" has me confused.
in a state where there is no polarity, no movement, nothing and everything all at once in a state of not needing...(blah blah blah - however you personally describe the state i speak of) what created the first division?
if nothing moves why did it move?
does this mean that there is an external influence effecting the oneness?
does this mean that even the oneness is trapped inside its own matrix?
conciousness itself trapped in a program surrounding it?
did it do it of its own accord?
any thoughts anyone has on the topic would be greatly appreciated.
regards
MM

Your thinking is on the right lines in a way it sends you into confusion but confusion is a teacher because it will lead you on an inward spiral of finite forms(concepts) until you simply break :)

But contemplating infinity is a great spiritual tool you might say. Starting with your first sentence the division was created out of an illusion, meaning you are one everything is one and so the sense of separation is unreal, but if you imagine god as an infinite sheet of glass that decided to shatter itself into an infinite number of pieces and then begin a process of working its way back to oneness... However separation isnt real its just a figment of our imagination you are already an enlightened being you simply believe you are not and so it is.

When you say there is an external influence on the oneness this is where you have misunderstood infinity and oneness, If there is an external source to oneness then it cannot possibly be oneness anymore because it is not whole. Infinity and oneness are the same thing because if you realize there is nothing outside of oneness then oneness is infinite. the sense of separation is happening within oneness but even that is incorrect as there is no location in oneness so how can it be within?

You might say infinity desired to experience finite "form" you know intuitively somthing cannot come from nothing you look around you and there is clearly somthing where did that come from, big bang? well were did that come from? and if there was somthing else where did that come from and this line of thinking leads you to the aha experience of knowing that nothing was born and nothing will die it simply IS God IS and we are being IS.

And so it is.

[popeye11]

If there was a beginning, what was before the beginning? If there is an end, what comes after the end. There is no such thing as time until we create it for convenience to have an experience. Forever is forever without beginning or end.
We co-create these games or dreams and will do so forever, and hopefully we will create a very different one when we finish this one. :)
To say "infinite oneness" and then say "in the beginning" is a contradiction. We are oneness and not divided, we just think we are so that we can have this experience. How can you divide up all-that-is?

[shankara]

Your thinking is on the right lines in a way it sends you into confusion but confusion is a teacher because it will lead you on an inward spiral of finite forms(concepts) until you simply break :)

But contemplating infinity is a great spiritual tool you might say. Starting with your first sentence the division was created out of an illusion, meaning you are one everything is one and so the sense of separation is unreal, but if you imagine god as an infinite sheet of glass that decided to shatter itself into an infinite number of pieces and then begin a process of working its way back to oneness... However separation isnt real its just a figment of our imagination you are already an enlightened being you simply believe you are not and so it is.

When you say there is an external influence on the oneness this is where you have misunderstood infinity and oneness, If there is an external source to oneness then it cannot possibly be oneness anymore because it is not whole. Infinity and oneness are the same thing because if you realize there is nothing outside of oneness then oneness is infinite. the sense of separation is happening within oneness but even that is incorrect as there is no location in oneness so how can it be within?

You might say infinity desired to experience finite "form" you know intuitively somthing cannot come from nothing you look around you and there is clearly somthing where did that come from, big bang? well were did that come from? and if there was somthing else where did that come from and this line of thinking leads you to the aha experience of knowing that nothing was born and nothing will die it simply IS God IS and we are being IS.

And so it is.

Good explanation. :)

[shankara]

because I can:)

Touché :)

Regarding the concept of 'nothingness,' or 'nothing,' it is my suspicion that these are merely pragmatic terms used to describe lack ("there was nothing in the mail today,") rather than a true absence of Being or a nothingness, because Being, being infinite, is all there is. I'm being too obvious aren't I? :D

[abrilliantone]

Your thinking is on the right lines in a way it sends you into confusion but confusion is a teacher because it will lead you on an inward spiral of finite forms(concepts) until you simply break :)

But contemplating infinity is a great spiritual tool you might say. Starting with your first sentence the division was created out of an illusion, meaning you are one everything is one and so the sense of separation is unreal, but if you imagine god as an infinite sheet of glass that decided to shatter itself into an infinite number of pieces and then begin a process of working its way back to oneness... However separation isnt real its just a figment of our imagination you are already an enlightened being you simply believe you are not and so it is.

When you say there is an external influence on the oneness this is where you have misunderstood infinity and oneness, If there is an external source to oneness then it cannot possibly be oneness anymore because it is not whole. Infinity and oneness are the same thing because if you realize there is nothing outside of oneness then oneness is infinite. the sense of separation is happening within oneness but even that is incorrect as there is no location in oneness so how can it be within?

You might say infinity desired to experience finite "form" you know intuitively somthing cannot come from nothing you look around you and there is clearly somthing where did that come from, big bang? well were did that come from? and if there was somthing else where did that come from and this line of thinking leads you to the aha experience of knowing that nothing was born and nothing will die it simply IS God IS and we are being IS.

And so it is.

If there was a beginning, what was before the beginning? If there is an end, what comes after the end. There is no such thing as time until we create it for convenience to have an experience. Forever is forever without beginning or end.
We co-create these games or dreams and will do so forever, and hopefully we will create a very different one when we finish this one. :)
To say "infinite oneness" and then say "in the beginning" is a contradiction. We are oneness and not divided, we just think we are so that we can have this experience. How can you divide up all-that-is?



Regarding the concept of 'nothingness,' or 'nothing,' it is my suspicion that these are merely pragmatic terms used to describe lack ("there was nothing in the mail today,") rather than a true absence of Being or a nothingness, because Being, being infinite, is all there is. I'm being too obvious aren't I? :D



Thank You :) It's good to see others who "know" Infinite Oneness and "know" that's who we are. :) :D

[survivor1]

We are the One, always have been, always will be.
There was no movement of division in reality ,only from the perspective of the virtual reality that many people call life and it's being played out within the One, within you.

Thought drives the virtual reality, without thought the virtual reality disappears.
Stop the movie and your left on your own in the infinite, your alone in the infinite because you are the infinite, and is indescribable directly using words from the virtual reality.
Enlightenment isn't something you get, it's the destruction of all the illusion to reveal what is left, your true nature.
And it's a blast being God isn't it?

[themadmirror]

Thankyou all for your help in explaining these conscepts to me. I apologise for the lateness of my reply(much to think about :) ) I now see the matrix as a... giant ball(for lack of a better word) vibrating with energy 1 being the funamental and everything existing within it is a harmonic frequency of the fundamental. infinite devisions and infinite configurations. I continue unlearning what I have learned. Once again thankyou for your help.
MM