Billy Meier

[branjo]

Is anyone else aware of the importance of this little old man?

[romas]

Yes.

[thirdwave]

I have to be honest this is one thing that always manages to confuse me.. there have been times where I have been compleatly convinced he is a bullshitter....

other times I have felt he could be very genuine.

I just feel for all his mega contact with them, he does not really have enough conclusive evidence... for example why not a simple photograph with him standing next to the UFO with the ETEs?

why not a photo of him inside the craft with them?

he has an audio recording of the UFO... but why not simple a close up of the UFO with sound?

I just feel for someone who had such constant and blatant contact all his evidence is very distant... and its not like he has had any real benaficial info to pass along..

[romas]

I have to be honest this is one thing that always manages to confuse me.. there have been times where I have been compleatly convinced he is a bullshitter....

other times I have felt he could be very genuine.

I just feel for all his mega contact with them, he does not really have enough conclusive evidence... for example why not a simple photograph with him standing next to the UFO with the ETEs?

why not a photo of him inside the craft with them?

he has an audio recording of the UFO... but why not simple a close up of the UFO with sound?

I just feel for someone who had such constant and blatant contact all his evidence is very distant... and its not like he has had any real benaficial info to pass along..


Plejaren did not want their image depicted, at one point thought he did take a picture of two women.

There are inside craft pictures, however he said due to the way craft works there is big interference with the camera, images usualy come out blured out(no photoshop at that time) and the one that worked you can see window and another ufo besides it up some couple houndred feet in the air.

He has tons of information, there are about 15,000 scriptures, such as Talmud of Emanuel(aka Jesus) etc. Tons of teaching and predictions, you have done poor research my friend :)

The only problem I see is, most of it is in german-swiss type of language.

It is the best case you can find, stuffed with 'evidence' and testomony, you should check out: The Silent Revolution Of Truth

If this was hoaxed then powers that can pull this off are very serious, beyond any official organisation on earth today, we're talking serious technology and mind manipulation and wisdom-knowledge you name it.

He predicted huge amounts of events, not all came to being, but certain aspects did manifest, he knew IO as the most active body in solar system almost a year before astronomers found that out and they did comment on the event agreeing with what he said.

And I havent even red any of german stuff yet! US citizens tount Rosvell being "biggest case" but in reality it's jack shit compared to amount of information from Switzerland, Rosvell is being pampered by TPTB very ellegantly via media, for the reason that it's bs with no substance, Billy Meier case explains alot of things in this world. He is very interesting figure, it's hard to point that yes this is 100% real and 100% benevolent, things can be decieving, but I would say 99.9% it's real.

[branjo]

Im with you on the 99.9% I was and have been blown away by what I have read and watched. Call me naive but I get a sense of calmness when I look at the old dude. I don't think he could lie if he tried.

George Green has some awesome things to say on this matter and his site http://www.nomorehoaxes.com/ has some good info on these ET's and also the bad guys David is trying to expose, apparently they approached him to be a money man way back in the 70's and he told them to shove it, and they tried to fianncially ruin him but he was a clever guy and stashed a few mill away for a rainy day. He has worked closely with Billy and also has some very new pics of the exact same craft taken by a guy in Florida that was also a contactee.

Awesome stuff, I havent slept right since I started researching it

[astro zombie]

It is definately an interesting case, i'll say that. I haven't read enough about it yet though...the only book i've read about this is in Alien Agenda by Jim Marrs.

As with most things i'm not going to totally believe or dis-believe this case until i've looked into it a little more. BUT, i think the guy is authentic, even if some of the information isn't 100% accurate.

Some things though, i just FEEL is right, even if it sounds far-fetched to our conditioned reality. I feel like their really exists a highly evolved civilization in the Pleiadian star sytem, just as i feel that the Orion star system is significant. Also in regard to reps, something withing me feels they exist. I know alot of you proably feel the same way, which only adds more confirmation for me.:D

[specialk85]

he is an interesting man..as is Riley Martin

[romas]

He predicted current pope is supposedly last one, so I'm kinda looking up to that information ^^

[thirdwave]

Plejaren did not want their image depicted, at one point thought he did take a picture of two women.

There are inside craft pictures, however he said due to the way craft works there is big interference with the camera, images usualy come out blured out(no photoshop at that time) and the one that worked you can see window and another ufo besides it up some couple houndred feet in the air.

He has tons of information, there are about 15,000 scriptures, such as Talmud of Emanuel(aka Jesus) etc. Tons of teaching and predictions, you have done poor research my friend :)

The only problem I see is, most of it is in german-swiss type of language.

It is the best case you can find, stuffed with 'evidence' and testomony, you should check out: The Silent Revolution Of Truth

If this was hoaxed then powers that can pull this off are very serious, beyond any official organisation on earth today, we're talking serious technology and mind manipulation and wisdom-knowledge you name it.

He predicted huge amounts of events, not all came to being, but certain aspects did manifest, he knew IO as the most active body in solar system almost a year before astronomers found that out and they did comment on the event agreeing with what he said.

And I havent even red any of german stuff yet! US citizens tount Rosvell being "biggest case" but in reality it's jack shit compared to amount of information from Switzerland, Rosvell is being pampered by TPTB very ellegantly via media, for the reason that it's bs with no substance, Billy Meier case explains alot of things in this world. He is very interesting figure, it's hard to point that yes this is 100% real and 100% benevolent, things can be decieving, but I would say 99.9% it's real.



I certainly have not written him off.... I would like to see more of this info...

I cant work out why they would not want to be photographed though...

[sloughi]

Is anyone else aware of the importance of this little old man?Yes. I off and on do research on his writings. I've been reading his writings for about 2 years now. His book is very expensive from $139.00-$225. But it is extensive work. He is actually a prophet and stated that the United States will have two Civil Wars. He stated that a major earthquake and firestorms would ravage the U.S. Was he wrong? Look at the 1300 fires that were in Northern California.

[galactic_stargazer]

Plejaren did not want their image depicted, at one point thought he did take a picture of two women.

I don't know this guy at all but a few things that I came across after reading this thread just don't make any sense and maybe you guys can clear them up...You just said that they didn't want their image depicted, then why does he have drawings of them on his website?

And I ask that because on his site there is a page 'Why do the Pleiadians only contact Billy Meier?'....Reason 6 says that they "only cultivate contacts with Earth humans who are known to us as absolutely trustworthy and reliable in every respect."....So at some point did they tell him it was ok to show their image?

But another thing about this that doesn't add up is in reason 1 it says "We get in contact with an individual from Earth only on condition that the person has executed studies in all spheres for decades."....now correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he 5 years old at first contact?

Like I said I don't know this mans full story and these things might already have been explained in a book or something, does anyone know?

Edited to add link:....http://www.steelmarkonline.com/why_billy.htm

[branjo]

Yeah that is true but the weird or cool thing is they said they have used him in many of his lives as they trust him and know he is committed to furthering mankind, it does require a leap of faith but really not that much. The people who have actually sat with him and tried to understand things with an objective mind just get amazed and leave him with no sense of doubt. What interested me was they told him that the "otherside" the place your soul goes after death to await the next body is actually empty, because of immense over population on earth and the 2012 to me is like a vacum effect where the planet will kill of a huge percentage of the population inorder for balance. Which although we are angry at the government and the way they do things its their agenda as well as the planets. Like a dog will only get wet so much before it shakes of the water. I have to say I have lost a lot of the fear of death for my own personal self, and being told that the concept of hell doesn't exist, only creation from which all matter is born from rock to twig to us. Its kind of a soothing thought in the face of oblivion.
They also said that they would not intervene even in the event of catastrophy but the second we have the ability to leave our own solar system in a manned craft then they would in a very serious way as there are rules that all races must uphold in the universe.

The Disclosure Project is a must see for anyone in doubt whether anyone exists outside of our solar system, very compelling stuff. Still on google as well as youtube.

They have also been in contact with a guy in Florida who has produced pictures that corroberate billy's pictures and contact info. This was presented to Randy Winters after a lecture he gave and he said there is no doubt of its accuracy. They even said they are in "contact" with around 24,000 people in some way or another whether they know it or not. Sometimes I feel like a big kid with this stuff and other times I have a profound sense of belonging, either way we live in extremely exciting times.

Billy's own book is "And still they Fly" I am on the look out for a copy too

Correction The book is called "And Yet they Fly" Amazon for $25 used, I might snag me one of those.

[romas]

I certainly have not written him off.... I would like to see more of this info...

I cant work out why they would not want to be photographed though...



Yeah it's pretty strange, something along the lines of them not wanting to be idol worshiped, because some people tend to make things into occult style.

[romas]

Yeah that is true but the weird or cool thing is they said they have used him in many of his lives as they trust him and know he is committed to furthering mankind, it does require a leap of faith but really not that much. The people who have actually sat with him and tried to understand things with an objective mind just get amazed and leave him with no sense of doubt. What interested me was they told him that the "otherside" the place your soul goes after death to await the next body is actually empty, because of immense over population on earth and the 2012 to me is like a vacum effect where the planet will kill of a huge percentage of the population inorder for balance. Which although we are angry at the government and the way they do things its their agenda as well as the planets. Like a dog will only get wet so much before it shakes of the water. I have to say I have lost a lot of the fear of death for my own personal self, and being told that the concept of hell doesn't exist, only creation from which all matter is born from rock to twig to us. Its kind of a soothing thought in the face of oblivion.
They also said that they would not intervene even in the event of catastrophy but the second we have the ability to leave our own solar system in a manned craft then they would in a very serious way as there are rules that all races must uphold in the universe.

The Disclosure Project is a must see for anyone in doubt whether anyone exists outside of our solar system, very compelling stuff. Still on google as well as youtube.

They have also been in contact with a guy in Florida who has produced pictures that corroberate billy's pictures and contact info. This was presented to Randy Winters after a lecture he gave and he said there is no doubt of its accuracy. They even said they are in "contact" with around 24,000 people in some way or another whether they know it or not. Sometimes I feel like a big kid with this stuff and other times I have a profound sense of belonging, either way we live in extremely exciting times.

Billy's own book is "And still they Fly" I am on the look out for a copy too

Correction The book is called "And Yet they Fly" Amazon for $25 used, I might snag me one of those.



Ok the soul thing does not make sense to me, if we had less population that would mean souls would have to wait longer as there would be less bodies?

Overpopulation, well I agree in a sense that people simply do not share with each other and in order to live a consumer life style most people in west love there are to many people, that's why when China or India wants to become like USA there are big problems of shortage of recourses and that leads to war.

To me less birthrate is better than more wars and wars are inevitable with this kind of living. People just don't wanna accept facts because that doesn't comfort their bs belief systems.

The Disclosure project states there around 57 species who have visited us in the past or-and continue the contact right now.
The problem with Billye Meier case is that I haven't see them mention other species. On surface Plejaren seem wise and benevolent, but there can be deception, you don't need to look far outside our planet to see that evil does use deception.

I have yet to see any reptillian information by Billy Meier, has anyone got anything on that subject?

[romas]

I don't know this guy at all but a few things that I came across after reading this thread just don't make any sense and maybe you guys can clear them up...You just said that they didn't want their image depicted, then why does he have drawings of them on his website?

And I ask that because on his site there is a page 'Why do the Pleiadians only contact Billy Meier?'....Reason 6 says that they "only cultivate contacts with Earth humans who are known to us as absolutely trustworthy and reliable in every respect."....So at some point did they tell him it was ok to show their image?

But another thing about this that doesn't add up is in reason 1 it says "We get in contact with an individual from Earth only on condition that the person has executed studies in all spheres for decades."....now correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he 5 years old at first contact?

Like I said I don't know this mans full story and these things might already have been explained in a book or something, does anyone know?

Edited to add link:....http://www.steelmarkonline.com/why_billy.htm



Yes apparently they gave him lessons on everything starting from age 5 the reason they chose him because of his "spirit" or "soul" I can't remember which exactly :P

[romas]

There are other people apparently in contact with Pleadians, both pretty strong cases imo:

Barbara Marciniak
James Gilliland

[branjo]

The soul thing makes perfect sense really, they said that thousands of years ago a soul would spend 150 to 200 years in a spirit form amongst creation, revitalizing it and showing it that it is indeed a part of something immense and that anger, distrust and jealousy are just illusions brought about by stagnation of the soul. But as souls are not spending anytime at all there, we are dying and instantly being reincarnated in another body without knowing what spiritual peace is. So we may die a horrible death and go straight into another body with the memory of that horrible death violently scribed into our minds so we are in a cycle of getting afraid of the bad things in life. So people become more and more attached to the material world and more and more attached to every life we have which is where emotions like fear and hate come from.
Instead of looking at death as the "end of a ride" we are awaiting it with utter dread.
We are so scared of it that we forget that we are supposed to be learning along the way.

Well this time I don't think we have a choice and the "awakening" I suspect is a mass realization that death is not only not the end but the simple transition to a spirit world that has long been forgotten.

There is a flip side to the coin though and one that my material existence is trying to hold onto, what if the entire planets population through a cataclysmic event actually turn to one another with love and through that love we convince creation that we are no longer a threat to it and although we are so densely overpopulated we make a spiritual promise to reduce our numbers by slowing down the breeding cycle and more and more filling up this spiritual relm to a healthy balance. That would be something now, slim chance but anything is possible even at this late stage.

Love discussing this kind of thing.

Thanks for those other names BTW

[galactic_stargazer]

I don't know, after further looking into this guy I have to say he is nothing but a money scamming fraud.

[romas]

The soul thing makes perfect sense really, they said that thousands of years ago a soul would spend 150 to 200 years in a spirit form amongst creation, revitalizing it and showing it that it is indeed a part of something immense and that anger, distrust and jealousy are just illusions brought about by stagnation of the soul. But as souls are not spending anytime at all there, we are dying and instantly being reincarnated in another body without knowing what spiritual peace is. So we may die a horrible death and go straight into another body with the memory of that horrible death violently scribed into our minds so we are in a cycle of getting afraid of the bad things in life. So people become more and more attached to the material world and more and more attached to every life we have which is where emotions like fear and hate come from.
Instead of looking at death as the "end of a ride" we are awaiting it with utter dread.
We are so scared of it that we forget that we are supposed to be learning along the way.

Well this time I don't think we have a choice and the "awakening" I suspect is a mass realization that death is not only not the end but the simple transition to a spirit world that has long been forgotten.

There is a flip side to the coin though and one that my material existence is trying to hold onto, what if the entire planets population through a cataclysmic event actually turn to one another with love and through that love we convince creation that we are no longer a threat to it and although we are so densely overpopulated we make a spiritual promise to reduce our numbers by slowing down the breeding cycle and more and more filling up this spiritual relm to a healthy balance. That would be something now, slim chance but anything is possible even at this late stage.

Love discussing this kind of thing.

Thanks for those other names BTW


What didn't make sense was that you said as there are more people souls have to wait longer in the void, being reincarnated asap does make sense, waiting somewhere does not.



I don't know, after further looking into this guy I have to say he is nothing but a money scamming fraud.


Elaborate?

[galactic_stargazer]

Well I came across a lot of info on him so I just pick a few.

Is it true that he said that traveled back in time and took this picture (which is actually from a painting)?

http://www.nutz.ca/pics/dino1.jpg

the painting

http://www.nutz.ca/pics/pteranodon.jpg

His ex wife said it was all a hoax (and yea I know she just could be trying to hurt him) and why is he asking for money for the analysis' of his proof? You would think he would be just giving that to everyone who asked for free.

There is just too much against him, even Stanton Friedman said the photos are fake....Sorry I have to go but like I said just too much against him.

[branjo]

I will be looking into this, thankyou. I am still optomistic though and debunkers have gone further than this in the past. I think our own powers as human being are debunked on a daily basis. The dino pics always kinda bugged me, it could be a desperate attempt to make us listen though. It could be covering the truth as well as a lie. But everything has to be taken into account so once again thankyou for new info

When you have the time can you link me to those pics?

Its ok I found them.

[sloughi]

Government agencies have done much to disprove Billy Meier. But he is the most legitimate man out their. Billy has NEVER released any of his pics. he has only taken pictures for his personal records. These photographs are certainly fakes as these are presented but agents to disprove him. Mostly he was not even permitted to take pictures. I have seen pictures by him from space that can't be faked. Pictures of him above venus with parts of satellites in the scenes.

[branjo]

Agreed, the validity of those few pics pails in comparison to the amount of skeptics that have tried their best to disprove him and came up empty every time is something to consider. Some extremely intelligent people have sat with him and didn't doubt him for one second. The ex air force employee's that confirmed they had seen those ships before on US bases namely George Green who was willing to pay billy as much as he needed to get his story told needs to be taken into account, he also wrote a book called the "The Handbook of the new paradigm" and its free.
There is with the aid of programs like photoshop a weird field underneath the pics of the Meier space craft, no photoshop in the 70's and quite hard to fake, the tree that was suppose to be a tiny model is seen bending under the force generated around it on the 8mm footage kinda hard to fake also. Didn't he also get the surface gases and composition spot on with a few planets we hadn't had anything to analyze them at the time? I am still convinced personally. The remotely operated ships in the multiple craft pics of Billy's sound very like the craft that Bob Lazar described when he was employed to back engineer the propulsion system at the Groom lake base. Gotta dig a little deeper it would be a shame for a few pics to taint the whole package in peoples eyes

[romas]

Well I came across a lot of info on him so I just pick a few.

Is it true that he said that traveled back in time and took this picture (which is actually from a painting)?

http://www.nutz.ca/pics/dino1.jpg

the painting

http://www.nutz.ca/pics/pteranodon.jpg

His ex wife said it was all a hoax (and yea I know she just could be trying to hurt him) and why is he asking for money for the analysis' of his proof? You would think he would be just giving that to everyone who asked for free.

There is just too much against him, even Stanton Friedman said the photos are fake....Sorry I have to go but like I said just too much against him.



I've never seen this from the Meier case, where did you get it?

[romas]

Government agencies have done much to disprove Billy Meier. But he is the most legitimate man out their. Billy has NEVER released any of his pics. he has only taken pictures for his personal records. These photographs are certainly fakes as these are presented but agents to disprove him. Mostly he was not even permitted to take pictures. I have seen pictures by him from space that can't be faked. Pictures of him above venus with parts of satellites in the scenes.




Have you got any of those pictures? If you don't want to post could you send a private message.

[blueyonder2012]

Looked into the billy case - Seems to stack up -

The painting could have been done after to discredit him!!?

Couple of videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sCz7GFtkYQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsp6lF4SCKI[/url][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsp6lF4SCKI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsp6lF4SCKI




Question everything!

[romas]

Well apparently they had some kind of disagreement with this guy Randolph Winters you see the post above, anyone got some insight into that story?

[branjo]

Im sure the guy is mentally exhausted and most probably ashamed of how money has ruined the message of spirituality he tried to spread. Maybe that's why the contacts also stopped, I hope that's not the case but money has a terrible effect on people. If these FIGU people are charging that kind of money that he says they are then it makes the whole thing look bad. Kinda sad.

[galactic_stargazer]

I've never seen this from the Meier case, where did you get it?

They were from a thread on ATS, just one of the many places that popped up when I googled him.

I do want to look into his story further tho...Which one of his books would any of you recommend?

[thirdwave]

Plejaren did not want their image depicted, at one point thought he did take a picture of two women.


there was quite a big thing around the net about claims these pictures were proven to be actresses and that the pics where taken from some movie..or program or something...

do you know the info on this... i never take in all that stuff as its so easy to cook up...

[romas]

there was quite a big thing around the net about claims these pictures were proven to be actresses and that the pics where taken from some movie..or program or something...

do you know the info on this... i never take in all that stuff as its so easy to cook up...


Yeah I've seen the supposed earthly version of the woman on some poster(it was a video documentary on debunking), the blonde one and her simmilarity was something akin to D. Wilcock and E. Cayce you know, simmilar in some respect but definately not the same person. And the asian-brunette wasn't even there.

This debunking is so vague, if you don't want to believe then it can 'help' you stay clear, but if you want to believe and-or stay objective than you will need more than these poor attempts.

If you want to know what keeps me from believing 100%? It's actually the names that these Plejaren gave as their "earth names" surely it could be some kind of houmor attempt and they just picked random nicknames, but still it's quite esoteric:

Ptaah(a diety?)
Quetzal(or google Quetzalcoatl?)

----

I don't know about these, but you can do your own research:

Semjase
Asket


http://blog.myspace.com/billymeier

[branjo]

His message alone just doesn't make me question the core of the evidence, that we must find our true spirituality and not despair about heaven and hell being the deciding factor on our souls rather that education of the mind is what collectively furthers our existence on this planet. Not exactly the ravings of a mad man.

The names are very interesting though as you said romas and from where I am reading about the ancient cultures Quetzalcoatl was suppose to be a good guy that was the main reason for stopping the human sacrifices, that has to be a good sign.

The pictures of the girls are that "confusing" factor that has convinced a huge majority of people to dismiss everything else he had said. Even so the ear lobes on the blonde girl are quite long and he said thats the only real distinction between them and us, could be earings on a normal girl of course, but the hairlines don't match the girls we are told they are. Again we can't dwell on the small things when we are judging the large picture.

I think its the way he talks also, he doesn't trip up and contradict himself in his interviews and he just seems so sure about things that we have no idea about, namely the time traveling and the future.

He says its impossible to change the past like our back to the future movie theory, and that the future is never set. The Pleiadian's said that the future is constantly changing by the collective mind of all humans. So if one day everyone on earth was sad if you zipped forward right then, doom and gloom is sure to follow, but catch the planet on a happy day and the projected future is said to be quite different. ie could a global awakening actually change predicted events of long awaited doom by quite a lot of people who had a huge amount of predictions come true and were totally wrong in others. Are we really in control of not only our own personal spirituality but when connected all as one even the material world around us too? Quite an empowering view I think.

I get a good feeling from the Meier information and even though I hope we get definite proof that he is correct and sincerely genuine about all he has said. I still feel I have gained something deeper even if it turns out to be all just fabrication.

[freethinker]

is there a link to the pics of the peledians ?

[branjo]

Interesting article by FIGU usa on the subject of the pics http://us.figu.org/portal/BillyMeier/HisWork/AsketNeraPhotos/tabid/59/Default.aspx

Link to pic in question http://www.mercuryrapids.co.uk/Asket_&_Nera.jpg

[galactic_stargazer]

Well apparently they had some kind of disagreement with this guy Randolph Winters you see the post above, anyone got some insight into that story?

I'm watching that video now and he explains a little about what happened saying that the people are basically a cult and that they own Billy.

A little more on those dino pics I posted, they are Billy's. In part 10 of that video (Thanks BTW for the person who posted that :)) Randolph taped Billy's photo album as they were going through it....I just can't see if this guy is on par why the lies.

Here's part 10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXgno4Apqk&feature=related

[galactic_stargazer]

is there a link to the pics of the peledians ?

http://www.steelmarkonline.com/images/Quetzal.jpg

http://www.steelmarkonline.com/images/semjase.jpg

http://www.steelmarkonline.com/images/Ptaah.jpg

http://www.steelmarkonline.com/images/Sfath.jpg

Here's the link.... http://www.steelmarkonline.com/pleiadians.htm

[freethinker]

cheers guys

[thirdwave]

I'm watching that video now and he explains a little about what happened saying that the people are basically a cult and that they own Billy.

A little more on those dino pics I posted, they are Billy's. In part 10 of that video (Thanks BTW for the person who posted that :)) Randolph taped Billy's photo album as they were going through it....I just can't see if this guy is on par why the lies.

Here's part 10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXgno4Apqk&feature=related

yeah that guy has either been fed disinfo ...or is the disinfo....
or he is duped and BM is a fake...

[romas]

yeah that guy has either been fed disinfo ...or is the disinfo....
or he is duped and BM is a fake...



If it's fabrication then imagine what kind of resource they can pull off, there is metal nobody can reproduce in civillian world, there is sound thats hardly synthesized, but rather a recording of something crazy. If it's a hoax it's genius and all of that made up at around 1970-1980s imagine what they could pull off now?

There are alot of people standing behind this story with tears in their eyes and stories so touching and convincing, there is nothing out there to compare. Many predictions that did come true, there's loads of anti-establishment and ant-elite information, if it's a hoax then it's a hoax by forces that are just as unbelievable as this event itself.

If it is a hoax then I can say that David Icke is right and his reptillians are behind this case, but personally if you really do research in this case, human testimony and emotion alone is making 99.9% of proof.

[galactic_stargazer]

Does anyone know when his followers, this group of people that now seem to own him, was formed?

Maybe a lot of his story is true but that group wanted it more embellished and now we have the lies mixed in.

[thirdwave]

thinking about it, would he really have used pictures from in work actresses and images from published books?

How would someone targeting to gain fame and popularity knowing there would be full on attacks on his stories (and a allot of scepticism and debunker attacks) really use photos from working actresses and use pictures from published books, in the hope of getting away with it??

Surely this would have been too risky to do from the get go and not particularly necessary when you look at the other more convincing evidence he has... for a start, it would have only took one of the actresses to see her photo to catch him out, and the creator of the dinosaur book.. or a dedicated dinosaur researcher... very clumsy.

this is what maybe leads me to think there has been some corruption in there... maybe threats... and imposing people... so on..

[branjo]

Good point, and something these debunkers/saboteurs rarely look at when they make their disinformation public is, does it actually hold up to scrutiny itself. But they aren't concerned about it because they know the damage done in the early stages can turn truth into myth, and then it all comes down to guess work because the time when we had all the facts is long gone and then its a game for the historians and eye wittiness's then they can also have their own agendas too.

Im not to up on my study of dinosaurs by any means but does the dinosaur in Billy's Pic look like any that have been documented? Stands like a T Rex with the head of a Brontosaurus? I dunno just a thought.

[sloughi]

How would someone targeting to gain fame and popularity knowing there would be full on attacks on his stories (and a allot of scepticism and debunker attacks) really use photos from working actresses and use pictures from published books, in the hope of getting away with it??
Yep! Doesn't make sense at all to take pictures of hit TV show characters and claim them as personal visitors from outer space.

But Billy Meier didn't take pictures of Semjase. He wanted to but she refused because she said negative energy can be directed at her in that way. Plus, he wanted to touch the dinosaurs but I never actually read about him photographing them. He did have some photos but they were to show his session and were his personal records. He did take some nice pics of Venus but I'll have to find them. The government is trying to discredit him but he is one of the most geniune contacts of current times. Whitley and those other folks aren't comparable to Billy Meier and Semjase. Why do you think is book goes for $225.00? He's a man to read about. I've done read much of his work and the Henoch Prophecies as well.

[romas]

thinking about it, would he really have used pictures from in work actresses and images from published books?

How would someone targeting to gain fame and popularity knowing there would be full on attacks on his stories (and a allot of scepticism and debunker attacks) really use photos from working actresses and use pictures from published books, in the hope of getting away with it??

Surely this would have been too risky to do from the get go and not particularly necessary when you look at the other more convincing evidence he has... for a start, it would have only took one of the actresses to see her photo to catch him out, and the creator of the dinosaur book.. or a dedicated dinosaur researcher... very clumsy.

this is what maybe leads me to think there has been some corruption in there... maybe threats... and imposing people... so on..



Saddam Hussein's Body Double No Longer Getting Any
http://www.brokennewz.com/displaystory.asp_Q_storyid_E_928bodydouble


It's a good point, I mean if you listen to him he is definitely not stupid, so going from there you can conclude, that he would not preform foolish attempts at hoaxing.

I'm quite sure if some one with enough recourse wanted he could find a double for me and for you and for Saddam Hussein ;)

[romas]

Im not to up on my study of dinosaurs by any means but does the dinosaur in Billy's Pic look like any that have been documented? Stands like a T Rex with the head of a Brontosaurus? I dunno just a thought.



What struck me when I recently saw some mainstream "news" on Discovery channel, they specifically said that, everything showing dinosaurs pure green skinned since mass media started it's propaganda, is wrong.

The picture had the exact brownish-green dinosaur they supposedly guessed based on DNA experiments, it was just icing on the cake for me as proof that this man is not just nobody, if he is a hoax it's still fucking amazing.

[romas]

Does anyone know when his followers, this group of people that now seem to own him, was formed?

Maybe a lot of his story is true but that group wanted it more embellished and now we have the lies mixed in.


Well if you check out Wendel Stevens movies, Billy didn't seem to have his "followers" back then, they supposedly came about when he became very famous.

[galactic_stargazer]

Well if you check out Wendel Stevens movies, Billy didn't seem to have his "followers" back then, they supposedly came about when he became very famous.

Thanks I'll check out that video.

Now the question is, for me anyway, when was Billy claiming the fake photos to be real, before or after the group?

[size_of_light]

Billy Meier?

He's not so bad.

In fact he's 'armless.

[chattanova]

The Billy Meier Story


http://img33.picoodle.com/data/img33/3/8/23/f_billymeierm_756ced1.jpg


"Billy" Eduard Albert Meier was born in Bülach, Switzerland on February 3, 1937. For over 56 years, he has maintained a series of physical and telepathic contacts with extraterrestrial beings who claim they come from the Plejares star cluster. Acting as a mediator and spokesperson for the Pleiadians/ Plejarans from planet Erra, Eduard Meier imparts their fascinating, esoteric teachings and wisdom to us and assists them in their monumental task of guiding Earth mankind back to the path we have left so long ago.

Billy's contacts with extraterrestrials began at age five when he was prepared for his life's work through the teachings of Sfath, an extraterrestrial man from the Plejares. Asket, Billy's second contact person, continued his education for another eleven years, guiding him through many lands on Earth to learn about terrestrial beliefs and cultures.

On January 28, 1975, he began a series of over 100 contacts with Semjase, a female Pleiadian/Plejaran. During several contacts Billy was allowed to photograph her "beamship" during flight maneuvers. He took over 1,000 of the clearest photos of extraterrestrial spacecraft ever seen. The actual contact conversations were written down word-for-word and contain many interesting facts on Earth history, humanities, sciences and spiritual topics. Since 1989, Billy has been having approximately four contacts a year with Ptaah, the father of Semjase, and has had over 250 contacts to date.
The following text, taken from FIGU's booklet, "The Truth About Billy Meier" (1988), will provide you with additional information on Billy Meier and his mission:

UFO contact person, Billy Meier, is often attacked by uninformed people who do not have the slightest knowledge of Billy’s comprehensive contacts and his mission, and all the details. They have never even met Billy in person. This is proven also by the fact that Billy’s real and full name, namely Eduard Albert Meier-Zafiriou, as a rule, is only familiar to a handful of co-workers, some acquaintances, and the members of FIGU.

Even fewer people know how Eduard Albert Meier-Zafiriou got the name Billy or that his name was marked down 10,000 years ago in documents which were preserved, handed down, and still exist now on earth. The name Billy is not only used by the public all over the world and by Billy’s closest associates but also, generally, by the extraterrestrials (ETs).

Uninformed critics and untrustworthy people who feel Billy’s contacts and mission are impossible, discredit and accuse him of being a charlatan or worse, and try to ridicule him. However, generally speaking, they are ill-informed on the issues and contexts and, therefore, are in no position to pass any realistic and competent judgement on the mission, the contacts, or Billy’s person. In order to do so in a factual and realistic manner, one has to deal with these matters for many years in a serious, intensive, and honest way to get to know the pertinent and multifaceted information, to study intensely the facts, and to get to know Billy. As a rule, this has been the case with only a few closely associated individuals, as well as several outsiders who publicly announce their positive feelings toward Billy Meier and his contacts. In honest lectures, seminars, radio and TV programs, in films, newspapers, and magazines, the "Billy Meier Case" is called unique within knowledgeable circles. There is probably no other case as richly documented by witnesses’ testimonies and material as this one, even though none of the witnesses has ever had personal contact with extraterrestrials. (This privilege was granted exclusively to Billy by the extraterrestrials who came from the planet Erra in the open star cluster of the Pleiades. They have never conducted personal conversations or conscious telepathy with any other person.)

It is noteworthy that the witnesses agree to having heard, seen, and experienced inexplicable phenomena, which only could have taken place through Billy’s contacts. Those eye and ear witnesses by no means consist solely of Billy’s friends and co-workers, but also consist of completely unrelated persons, e.g., spectators who took part in a rock music festival in 1975 on nearby Bachtel mountain (at Ettenhausen, near Wetzikon in the Canton Zürich), from where they witnessed nocturnal beamship demonstrations, etc. Previous members of Billy’s group, which has loosely existed since 1975, have to admit that they had phenomenal experiences regarding UFOs and ETs.

Billy did not strive for these contacts with extraterrestrials. On the contrary, he was sought out by the Pleiadians, because of an ancient mission from thousands of years ago. Furthermore, it has been shown that Billy did not agree to these contacts for financial gain, publicity, or personal fame, which can be evidenced by his withdrawn lifestyle. The contacts with the Pleiadians also did not take place for his own pleasure because, behind all of these events, there looms a huge mission which must be fulfilled by many people. In connection with the mission many texts have been written, partially transmitted by the Pleiadians or even higher spiritual forms. Some were written by Billy himself at the request of the Pleiadians. Billy’s enemies know nothing of the existence and source of these texts, all of which can be obtained from FIGU, Switzerland, in the German language, including the contact notes and the latest publication, the OM.

Many years of experience with all types of people have shown that those who try to discriminate against Billy and question everything are obviously envious, pseudo-scientists, sectarians, fanatics, schizophrenics, or simply slanderers. In particular, they seem to be people who, because of some strange opinions concerning the rest of the world, politics, or religions, cannot bear the truth that may differ from their own beliefs. They are willing to suppress the truth with the aid of mean, dishonest methods, and to extinguish it, if possible, even if it means going over dead bodies, tarnishing and destroying the reputation of another human being.

The Photos and Videos

Billy Meier's UFO photos remain unparalleled for their clarity and sheer number. Several variations of the Pleiadian/Plejaran "beamships" were photographed at various remote locations in the Swiss countryside, mostly between 1975 and 1982. For the bulk of his photos, Billy used a camera that was easy for him to operate (having only one arm) -- an Olympus 35 ECR still camera. He also filmed several sequences using an 8mm movie camera Billy also used another camera (with variable focus) to take the photos of the "wedding cake" ships as well as with a video camera.

http://img27.picoodle.com/data/img27/3/8/23/f_foto1m_4384880.jpg

http://img28.picoodle.com/data/img28/3/8/23/f_foto2m_74bfe28.jpg

http://img32.picoodle.com/data/img32/3/8/23/f_foto3m_5bf7a3e.jpg

http://img33.picoodle.com/data/img33/3/8/23/f_foto4m_801ad1c.jpg

http://img37.picoodle.com/data/img37/3/8/23/f_foto5m_cccc8ab.jpg

http://img34.picoodle.com/data/img34/3/8/23/f_foto6m_12f9035.jpg

http://img33.picoodle.com/data/img33/3/8/23/f_foto7m_48b183b.jpg

http://img32.picoodle.com/data/img32/3/8/23/f_foto8m_b1dd644.jpg

The purpose of these photo demonstrations offered by the Pleiadians/Plejarans was to allow Billy the opportunity to acquire evidences in the form of photographic proof. This evidence is important as it can provide convincing testimony for the reality of Billy's contact experiences, if properly analyzed. This form of proof is also special since it affords each person the opportunity to decide for themself whether or not these contacts with extraterrestrials are really taking place, without harmfully infringing upon one's free will and beliefs. This policy of limited intervention by the Plejaran extraterrestrials, through photographic and metal-sample evidence, has served many purposes. Primarily, it has allowed both sides of the controversy -- the skeptics and those who are convinced it is real -- to form their own opinions through their individual level of research and study. In addition, it has brought about some desired goals of the extraterrestrials; one of which was to create a UFO controversy. This would urge a variety of scientists, government agencies, military services and other citizens to seriously preoccupy themselves with the subject of UFOs.

Many people still claim that Billy faked the hundreds of UFO photos he has taken to achieve some form of personal fame and/or monetary gain for himself, despite the positive analyses performed by several competent scientists and photo experts. Most of these allegations are not even backed up by scientific research, or they contain false, distorted data. In addition, it is a known fact that numerous photos of Billy's were carefully manipulated in the past to show strings and similar anomalies and were widely distributed in attempts to discredit him. However, the decision as to their authenticity ultimately lies with each and every individual...

http://www.ufocasebook.com/billymeier.html

British Skeptic Tries to Duplicate Meier’s UFO Films http://www.ufocasebook.com/082508.html

[matchbookpoet]

this guys a total .....im sick of people still debating this guys fakes

guys like this have good points though they shed more light on the subject and get more people into it.

but like all wishy washy new age crap it don't hold any water with me.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/ufo_et.htm

scroll down to the fake section.... shows his ufo photos on wires, and the funniest one i think he did is the pleadian with a ray gun, you gotta search he net for this one to lazy. ive seen comic book convention costumes that someone spent ten bucks on look better.

id love to make fakes just to show people how convincing they can be with the power of suggestion.

this guy fakes are really good....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jFaYqkCatQ

i think the chiken bones on the face are a nice touch

with any fakes i can always think hows its done, and how i could reproduce it being an artist i can always see the way how fakes can be made.


my favorite fake that made the guys millions is the alien autopsy... i cant believe how many people got taken in by this, when the movie about how they faked it came out i laughed so hard.. its was great movie too.

[sloughi]

Have you got any of those pictures? If you don't want to post could you send a private message.
I haven't forgot. The pictures were of him passing Venus. Last night on Coast to Coast AM they were talking about Billy Meier. They said that it was impossible for photo companies to duplicate his photos. This was JUST LAST NIGHT. Billy Meier also said their will be a catastrophic Earthquake off of the coast of Oregon, Seattle and L.A. The Earthquake will send Tsunamis as far as 20 miles inland. It might be a repeat if you didn't hear it last night.

If you didn't hear it then here.
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2008/09/05.html

I haven't forgot about those pics. I just haven't found the site lately.

[demise_of_time]

Not to bump an old thread but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2bZm4e1Kuo

WTF?

[chattanova]

Billy Meier PR Flak Admits False Articles

Longtime UFO Proponent Admits To Publishing Misleading Articles In Order To Support His Claims

The Various Claims Of Billy Meier Are Now Made Even More Unlikely. On August 27, 2008 in a public email Michael Horn admitted to posting false and misleading articles on his website in order to try and support the claims of Billy Meier.

PRLog (Press Release) – Sep 19, 2008 – Los Angeles, CA: The Independent Investigations Group (IIG) is the West Coast’s leading Paranormal Investigations group. One of the more prominent cases that the IIG has looked into is regarding the alleged UFO Contactee, Eduard Albert "Billy" Meier. An individual by the name of Michael Horn is the North American Publicist for Mr. Meier.

On August 27, 2008 in a public email Michael Horn sent to the IIG he revealed that he had posted false and misleading articles on his website. When confronted with this revelation Mr. Horn admitted to posting these false and misleading articles on his website in order to try and support the claims of Billy Meier.

Michael Horn also promotes several other claims made by Billy Meier. These claims include tales that Meier has traveled into the past on a flying saucer and took photographs of dinosaurs. However, his photographs turned out to be photographs of illustrations of dinosaurs taken from a book. Meier also published photographs of who he claimed was his extra-terrestrial contact, but it turned out that these were photographs of a singer performing on The Dean Martin Variety Show. Michael Horn also promotes the "prophecies" of Billy Meier. In January 2007 he claimed that one of these prophecies, which concerned the coming of World War III, had actually come true when four Heads of State died within seven days of each other. The problem with this “prophecy” is that the four Heads of State mentioned in the article did not die within seven days of each other like the “prophecy” claimed that they would.

http://www.prlog.org/10119352-longtime-ufo-proponent-admits-to-publishing-misleading-articles-in-order-to-support-his-claims.html

[romas]

this case was highjacked log time ago it seems, everything after vendel stevens seems bogus and way to far fetched.

[branjo]

yeah it does seem like it got to a point and when people lost interest, a little dishonesty started to creep in. I actually still believe the original first contact stories of Meier's.

Money seems to have ruined the original message though, when a corporation sprang up around him trying to make money, Billy's message was the last thing on their minds.

I guess its just what the individual wants to believe now, very sad indeed.

[freethinker]

you can see the pleidian women here

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D2GXyT_RYK0&feature=related

[branjo]

In his first contact notes they said he would NEVER be allowed to take a picture of them because of the way human beings idolize and fear.

[thirdwave]

some have announced that he has been "officially" debunked (for what that's worth)

what have these people got to say this.. can someone fill me in on why some think he has been debunked?

I know some pics where meant to be taken from books and stuff.... but apparently this was quite controversial how it was done...

[father ted]

I think whenever you hear the term "debunked", there's your red flag right there.

Some people think he has been debunked because of lots of instances, I got no general, quick answer to that. All I can say is FIGU, Michael Horn, and anyone around Billy Meier have some explaining to do.

There's only one thing that bothers me about the Meier case, and that's one of the beem ship footages.

[father ted]

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=5201

[branjo]

Good link, and I love your sig BTW :D totally agree WTF cares lol

[father ted]

Thanks, everyone needs a right of reply, and in this case I think since we heard one side of the story on this forum we should hear the other.

BTW, the link that chattanova gave does no longer have the article in it, it was taken down, Interesting that, very interesting.

I still would like to hear more from FIGU and others as to some of the "sabotage" that has been said to be going on...

[lorenxx]

i just want to ask who thinks the Henoch prophecies are real? Are they embellished or what he was actually told? who believes it?
http://www.theyfly.com/prophecies/prophecies.htm#henoch

Its confusing!

[romas]

There are videos made by Wendel Stevens, watch those and listen what Mr Meier has to say and see if it seems right or not, reading bullshit on internet leads nowhere, there are plenty of idiots looking for 15 minutes of being famous and even more so disinformation agents.

Not sure about Henoch prophecies, Mr Meier wrote them in swiss-german and he probably didn't check if the english translation wasn't altered so there you go, if anyone has access to the original manuscript I'd be more than glad to read :D

[branjo]

There are videos made by Wendel Stevens, watch those and listen what Mr Meier has to say and see if it seems right or not, reading bullshit on internet leads nowhere, there are plenty of idiots looking for 15 minutes of being famous and even more so disinformation agents.

Not sure about Henoch prophecies, Mr Meier wrote them in swiss-german and he probably didn't check if the english translation wasn't altered so there you go, if anyone has access to the original manuscript I'd be more than glad to read :D

Couldn't agree more, as much as the internet enlightens us, you have to take the rough with the smooth and as you say the level of bullshit also rises with the truth.

I think Billy is truly genuine but we have to agree that certain people have looked at the truth and they get dollar signs in their eyes.

Even when they say he faked some of those models I think when no one thinks the truth is real and would rather look at science fiction, you have to add a taste of what makes people listen and some times a little white lie can force people to look for the truth.

I got good vibes when I began to research Billy and his message was one of unity and peace and through your own means you can find true enlightenment. That doesn't for me sound like a bad thing to believe.

As far as reading into the future I feel you can see the future you want or the future you are afraid will happen. If you see beauty in life then the future of that theory is bright and when you see the people around you as crazy and mad then what other world could you see but that.

I say you take positivity where ever you can get it, and I felt pretty damn good listening to that old man speak, I saw no ego or agenda in his eyes, only a man trying to put into words what some of us only dream about.

I think at the time he gave the possible future the world was a pretty angry place and was about to get even angrier, so the extension of that was doom and gloom. Today I think Good has Evil by the short and curlies and tomorrow anything is possible.

[father ted]

I hear he has a Swiss bank account.

[branjo]

lmao :D no doubt

[father ted]

Australia is so dry and lifeless, the sun burns, how I would give my left arm to live in Switzerland.

It sounds like such a lush place, and imo most white people need to live in areas like europe/North america- not Australia! It's one of the reaons the Billy Meier saga draws me in, such a lush place. I'm still not %100 sure on him, but more so than not.

Even in one of the contact notes, one of the pleadians mentions that they don't always tell him everything and sometimes they "bend" the truth. The names of certain alien groups that they give, and the fact that they never mention reptilians but describe similar beings... intiguing.

[limelady]

There are other people apparently in contact with Pleadians, both pretty strong cases imo:

Barbara Marciniak
James Gilliland

Meier claims other contactees are mostly "charlatans and frauds"....and none of them have been chosen as the Plejaren's own representative on Earth as he has.

Here is an old controversial clip of Meier's. Make what you will of it. :)
http://www.livevideo.com/video/ConspiracyCentral/231D74E143A94D45834A20CD1DD63B67/billy-meier-wedding-cake-shi.aspx

[romas]

Meier claims other contactees are mostly "charlatans and frauds"....and none of them have been chosen as the Plejaren's own representative on Earth as he has.

Here is an old controversial clip of Meier's. Make what you will of it. :)
http://www.livevideo.com/video/ConspiracyCentral/231D74E143A94D45834A20CD1DD63B67/billy-meier-wedding-cake-shi.aspx



Well maybe true and maybe it was only true for that time, it's really hard to draw any conclusions.

[branjo]

Australia is so dry and lifeless, the sun burns, how I would give my left arm to live in Switzerland.

You should know I nearly spilled my coffee when I read that..lol.

[tagmtl]

For all that i have seen BM is credible.

The only thing that did discredit him is his ex-wife saying it was all a hoax. She said that cause she was fed up of all the media attention and people making money in their backs especially americans and not giving back what they deserve.

Just imagine how they where ridiculed it wasnt easy for this family.

His son also acknoldges his father claims.

The sounds of the ship and picture analyzed in the 70s where irrefutable.

If u like debunking debunk Stanton Freedman skunk one of the first renamed ufologist wich operates for the CIA.

Watch his 1970s video and recently in 2008 and draw your own conclusions.

I believe BM is genuine.

Peace

[father ted]

For all that i have seen BM is credible.

The only thing that did discredit him is his ex-wife saying it was all a hoax.

I have heard her in an old interview say that it's all real. She also signed an afidavid stating that all is true, to that affect. BEFORE she started going against Billy.

[simplify]

I have heard her in an old interview say that it's all real. She also signed an afidavid stating that all is true, to that affect. BEFORE she started going against Billy.

She was probably paid a handsome amount of cash to destroy his credibility. Money talks.

[father ted]

She was probably paid a handsome amount of cash to destroy his credibility. Money talks.

Or threatened, like some that I've heard in this Meier saga.

[thirdwave]

I think all UFO and ETE stuff can be very hard to judge as there is so many smear campaigns and stuff that goes on and so much effort to silence people and to stop some info from being heard...so on... that you are left being open about anything and closed to anything...

If Meier was the real deal then he would of course had been targeted by smear efforts and so on.... so what can you believe.... apart from a few of those pics that have been proven to be fake.... nothing else has and apparently those pics where only seen quite late on and we are not sure if Billy had anything to do with them.... its a hard one to call....

I do find it odd how he does not have pics of the ETEs and stuff though.... or at least something a little more tangible..

[classified]

well. abouth bill maier. i know that there are ufos. and as i saw it they ware all round. and not soser shaped. and like i know in side this crafts are grey aliens. and he is saying that in this souser shape crafts are human from other planet. to here i can bolive it all. but when bill maier wass asked if there are any green man outh there he sead no! well i know they are and i have a pruffs. and i heard that this soucer shaped crafts are made by germans nacist. and now americans use it. and they wisit bill maier. the main question from me to bill maier. is whay he denay litle green mens exsistiance? i wached his one movie that he was talking something abouth a white bright light in front of his house. and flyed away. well billy wtf was that? well he saead that he asked plaedians and they didnt know what that was. it was a litle green men inside. and i think this was his first alien encounter. lol

[classified]

He predicted current pope is supposedly last one, so I'm kinda looking up to that information ^^

did he publish any predictions. and where?

[classified]

Yes. I off and on do research on his writings. I've been reading his writings for about 2 years now. His book is very expensive from $139.00-$225. But it is extensive work. He is actually a prophet and stated that the United States will have two Civil Wars. He stated that a major earthquake and firestorms would ravage the U.S. Was he wrong? Look at the 1300 fires that were in Northern California.

can you tell me a title of this book and dose it exsist in pdf?

[limelady]

I think all UFO and ETE stuff can be very hard to judge as there is so many smear campaigns and stuff that goes on and so much effort to silence people and to stop some info from being heard...so on... that you are left being open about anything and closed to anything...

If Meier was the real deal then he would of course had been targeted by smear efforts and so on.... so what can you believe.... apart from a few of those pics that have been proven to be fake.... nothing else has and apparently those pics where only seen quite late on and we are not sure if Billy had anything to do with them.... its a hard one to call....

I do find it odd how he does not have pics of the ETEs and stuff though.... or at least something a little more tangible..

Billy says his friends won't give him too much evidence as they like him and all us Earth humans to have to deal with a certain level of 'plausible deniability' - and they under-pin all of this by reassuring us its all for our own good, as they don't want us to worship them as gods.

Talk about a mixed message! According to Billy they want people of planet Earth to believe Billy and fully understand what they have to say for our own sake (they came all this way many times in their beamships to warn us) yet they won't give him enough evidence to be able to effectively convince the world of his own credibility, let alone prove that THEY are real.

[classified]

Well I came across a lot of info on him so I just pick a few.

Is it true that he said that traveled back in time and took this picture (which is actually from a painting)?

http://www.nutz.ca/pics/dino1.jpg

the painting

http://www.nutz.ca/pics/pteranodon.jpg

His ex wife said it was all a hoax (and yea I know she just could be trying to hurt him) and why is he asking for money for the analysis' of his proof? You would think he would be just giving that to everyone who asked for free.

There is just too much against him, even Stanton Friedman said the photos are fake....Sorry I have to go but like I said just too much against him.

oooooo shit this hurts!!! i remeber his photographs.

[classified]

bill maier is a project. somebody wona present the gray aliens like devols. nad they show us playedians like angels. like i see playedians do not exsist.

[romas]

There are interviews with his neighbours and his family, every one of them saw something in the sky at one point or the other, if it's a hoax it's not done by an one armed invalid.

[classified]

then this aliens of yours come from watikan. :D i dont se other explanation. they wona present grey aliens like devols. so my gues is watikan or germany.

[limelady]

bill maier is a project. somebody wona present the gray aliens like devols. nad they show us playedians like angels. like i see playedians do not exsist.

I'm afraid I agree with you. I looked into Meier quite extensively a number of years ago with my mind wide open, and my assessment after reading a heap of his "contact notes" information and other data (some of which has never been published in English, but was sent to me by a friend who had recently translated it from German to English), is that Meier is likely to be one of the very first psyops/mind-control projects to see how humans would respond to the ETs as they were presented to us via Meier.

If my assessment is right (and there has been nothing come along since to change my mind), over the years Meier, his family and his neighbours and other interested parties have likely been subjected to a number of black-op technologies that may have still be in the experimental stage. We also know the Nazis have had UFO technology for at least the last 50-60 years or longer.

So much of his information is contradictory, that THIS in itself is cause for concern, and one could even be excused for thinking that some of his material has been written by somebody suffering schizophrenia, which is also quite a common phenomena in those who have been victims of heavy mind-control.

Although I still keep an open mind, for the time being I conclude that Meier is more likely than not to have been the victim of a long-term experiment for the purpose of test running a number of technologies for the greater purpose of social engineering.

[romas]

Mmmm feasable theory, but the project of that kind would require immense organisation and equipment, brainwash the whole town and then kill the story in the media?

[simplify]

Every story of contact with aliens that has gone public has been debunked. This leaves us confused and we don't know who or what to believe anymore.

How do we now know which story is the truth and which is not. No matter how truthful the story teller is, someone will come along and say NO, its all fake.

So where does that leaves us? If the aliens do land one day, somebody will debunk them.............very frustrating.

[branjo]

Its a cynical world we live in.

When everyone understands that the human race is not the human body then the concept of aliens is as valid as your own reflection in the bathroom mirror.

The Law of One states that if there is a probability of 1 then there being 2 is already a matter of fact, after all there is no one anything except the whole of consciousness or god if you want to call it that. So the fact that there is life on this planet is by far all the proof you need that there is also life on other planets. It doesn't even take faith, it only takes common sense.

If you believe you die with your body then there truly is no hope of convincing you otherwise as all is tied to your fear of death. The government and religion cease to be a factor when you truly do not fear death, they both offer salvation from it, Governments offer protection "before" you die and religion offers protection "after" you die. Its a pathetic and vicious circle that filters into everything in your life until you nip it in the bud.

Anything they both do to control you depends on your own personal view of death.
That's why this forum has some of the most ridiculous conspiracies I have ever heard because the Illuminati and religion are "worshiped" here by constantly talking about them and keeping them in the flow of your everyday life.

So if billy is a government "Psy Ops" which is ridiculous BTW then what does it really matter? The message of inner evolution and spiritual awakening is not billy's to begin with so the only thing that remains is, can you let yourself believe the message, not the messenger?

[binkbonk]

Billy Meier = bunk.

[classified]

Every story of contact with aliens that has gone public has been debunked. This leaves us confused and we don't know who or what to believe anymore.

How do we now know which story is the truth and which is not. No matter how truthful the story teller is, someone will come along and say NO, its all fake.

So where does that leaves us? If the aliens do land one day, somebody will debunk them.............very frustrating.

i can youst say to you if you wana see it u will see it. it would be crazy if you bolive to somebody yust on word. there are people whit real materials movies and photos. but they dont wont to publish it. becouse people would laught at them.

[classified]

i can say that in nex 10 years. all questions will bee anserd. u bether have some questions :D

roger and out! :)

[limelady]

Its a cynical world we live in.

Indeed it is.....and with good cause. We have been fed bunk going back thousands of years. How could we be anything other than cynical when we have lost all our trust?


So if billy is a government "Psy Ops" which is ridiculous BTW then what does it really matter? The message of inner evolution and spiritual awakening is not billy's to begin with so the only thing that remains is, can you let yourself believe the message, not the messenger?

I believe it DOES matter in so much as anything matters at all in this 'smoke and mirrors' show we call life.

And BTW can you please explain why you believe this possibility I outlined is any more "ridiculous" than a Swiss farmer being chosen as the only person on this entire planet worthy enough to be the receiver of valuable information an advanced race of space brothers and sisters wishes to relate to humanity for its own good?

[simplify]

i can youst say to you if you wana see it u will see it. it would be crazy if you bolive to somebody yust on word. there are people whit real materials movies and photos. but they dont wont to publish it. becouse people would laught at them.

I believe in aliens for sure.....and I also believe many other things about them. If I was to have a personal conscious meeting with an alien and we talked etc. & even if I took a photo of said alien, I would not go public with this info. Why, because I would be subjected to first, riducule, disbelief and the usual round of stupid jokes from ignorant people who can't even spell their own name. So sadly it would remain a secret with me alone. It seems to me that most people really don't want to know the truth...because they would have to actually give some deep thought to meaning of it all, and they are too lazy to go to that level. Don't rock their boat.
'

[branjo]

Indeed it is.....and with good cause. We have been fed bunk going back thousands of years. How could we be anything other than cynical when we have lost all our trust?

Actually we have been fed nothing, all that was needed was the motivation to look for the truth. Your "we" doesn't include me. Being too cynical will do nothing but cloud the judgment when the truth is right in front of you.
Its the old saying of the flea's in the jar, the ones that keep jumping and hitting their heads on the lid will be the first ones to be free when the lid isn't there, the cynical ones are the ones who don't jump anymore and live their lives accepting the jar is always going to have a lid.

I believe it DOES matter in so much as anything matters at all in this 'smoke and mirrors' show we call life.

Smoke and Mirrors may be your life but its not mine. The big bad "powers that be" never made a dent in my life or made me unhappy, that's why I don't use them as an excuse for my failings, which pretty much puts me in a minority in this forum.

The credibility of Meier the man has no bearing on the message for me, I take from him exactly what I needed and that was a message of peace and inner and outer knowledge that broadened my perspective on a very interesting subject. I believe him when it came from him, not the organization around him.

If one runs around crying conspiracy at every little thing, then pretty soon it comes out that the only person being fooled is oneself.


And BTW can you please explain why you believe this possibility I outlined is any more "ridiculous" than a Swiss farmer being chosen as the only person on this entire planet worthy enough to be the receiver of valuable information an advanced race of space brothers and sisters wishes to relate to humanity for its own good?

Well to reflect, why was a carpenters son chosen to deliver a message of love and respect for all life instead of some great public figure?
People spend far too much time debating the person and not the message, then groups appear distorting everything the original message was about and focus solely on the person saying it, ie Religion.

You basically just answered your question yourself, why would a government spend time and money on brainwashing an entire village of people and conduct light shows for a one armed Swiss farmer with no education living in a remote village to deliver a message that aliens are real only to spend even more time and more money to debunk him.

I guess its a matter of how much faith you have in people reflecting how much faith you have in yourself. I don't mean that disrespectfully, the only thing I have control over is how I see things and can I make some positive sense of it. Cynical negativity I have no time for anymore or blaming anyone else for my mistakes.

I will keep giving people the benefit of the doubt until I have 100% irrefutable proof that they were lying and even after that I still won't let it get me down or hold a grudge. You get out of something exactly what you put into it, if you fill everyone with distrust then don't be surprised when that's all you see.

[limelady]

Well brango you seem to have few lingering doubts about Meier, and I have no problem with that at all, but as things stand right now, I'm afraid I cannot say the same as there is no doubt in my mind factions/rogue groups within the military industrial complex would be quite capable of conducting a techno/psyops of that magnitude on Meier et.el. over time, if they believed they had good reason to do so for something they had planned for the future.

In fact, when compared to the mind-boggling 9/11 psy-ops event that has changed so much in our lives after the fact (a massive smoke and mirrors show that cost many innocent lives), it would have been chicken feed working quietly away on such a back-waters project, and possibly even quite entertaining for those involved in the project.....if indeed Meier HAS been a target.

Comparing Meier with another of the smoke and mirrors shows (the biblical accounts of Jesus the shepherd/messiah of the control religions), really only emphasises the fact that those behind the scenes have been orchestrating historical psy-ops events for a very long time, so would likely by now be quite expert at it with the advancements in technology they have at their disposal.

But like you, I do believe in many of the positive messages and universal truths Meier speaks of, it is only the source he claims the information came from that I have trouble with at the moment. Besides, I believe humanity needs to learn to spiritually evolve past the need to have to look outside themselves for the answers that have always been within. Surely we should stop giving power away to beings (gods, goddesses, messiahs, advanced ET's etc) we consider higher than ourselves when a quick look at the world around us CLEARLY shows venerating 'higher powers' has not gotten us very far spiritually. That's because the guidance we seek remains inside each and every one of us while our attention has been craftily diverted elsewhere.

Having said that, if we have friendly space brothers and sisters out there who'd like to interact with us (a strong possibility IMO), then by all means lets all give them a hearty welcome, but lets not 'hang our hats' on THAT possibility until open contact with all citizens of our plant has been firmly established beyond a shadow of a doubt.

BTW, I am not convinced Meier is deliberately lying as such (although he could be), all I am saying is after reviewing a lot of information he presents and weighing it up against other research I have done, I am very open to the strong possibility he has been wilfully deceived.

I respect your views and thank you for taking the time to respond. All the best branjo.

[branjo]

I can agree with that. We have to remember that now Meier is the equivalent of Ronald Regan when he had Alzheimer's...lol, I guess the FIDO just flash things in front of him for him to sign. He's an old man so I too think that his message was given quite a nudge or two in the direction of profit.

Now the 9/11 fiasco was another kettle of fish, from the second I saw it happen I thought it was odd, I didn't know the whole ins and outs that came later but to the average eye buildings don't fall like that. I think personally it was meant to be as badly planned and executed like that, if only to gauge the public on how many will believe what they see rather than what they know. The voting system I also think is just a test by the Government to see how many people feel like they still need them to make their decisions for them, and provide them with a job.

I am under no illusions of course that these groups exist that will try and subvert anything and everything to ensure a hold over the people. Like Terence McKenna said "The patriarchal society is so fragile that the mere thought of any opposition no matter how small is considered a deadly threat".

Now my question is this, is there a legitimate reason to hate these groups? because it only seems to fuel the fire. The more information we have and consume about the Illuminati and the church and so on seems to elevate them even more. I stated this in another post but it seems relevant here too.

A persons view of death is directly related to how much control can be placed on them in their lifetime. The Government and Religion both offer salvation from it, the Government (they say) will protect you from death during your lifetime and religion says it will protect you after your death with even more life. Both their powers only deal with how you look at death.

Now I feel in order to be in any way "Awake" you have to dissolve any fears about death, that also means not preventing it (easier said than done as self preservation is a hard thing to unlearn), but the self doesn't matter in regards that if we can understand that our body is mortal and our consciousness is as eternal as a single atom. Then death is to be coveted not feared. The time we spend here in this reality is all about learning and it doesn't matter if its 1 second or a hundred years long, it takes as long as it takes.
I wish I could say I don't fear death 100% but I know I have crossed the half way mark and I literally feel wonderful about it. I can smile at those who would drive fear into people through horrible actions because they are having zero effect in the long run. To even discuss such people now I find a complete waste of my time. We know the government are corrupt not because of certain people but by the very structure of that power, as Nietzsche said "All power walks on crooked legs", and I can't remember who said "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

So, I know what they are capable of but dwelling on what they do is only a factor if you are desperately trying to hang on to this life like its your only chance of it. I firmly believe and it is just that "what I believe" is that you will have as many tries as you want at life, the more you rush learning the more mistakes you will make, and the longer you are re incarnated here the longer you must wait for the next level in evolution to occur.

The house of cards is falling bit by bit no doubt about that, stranger days are on the way for everyone.

As for Alien contact, I have a sneaky suspicion that what we see today is as good as its ever gonna get. Either you believe now or you never will.
We have extremely technical crop circles that in the time scale they appear are impossible for people in a field to do. We have those who channel and that is another leap of faith but there are the diamonds among the rough out there who just come out with the most profound things that make total sense to the inner consciousness we all posses.

Everything is there to believe more than we have been told, the real conspiracy is instilling the thought of giant ships one day landing, which will never happen. Not because it can't but because that would be an incredibly rude gesture and a sign of hostility and gives a mental picture of ET's being on the evil side. Which heightens your fear of death which in turn lengthens your need to be protected from them thus giving governments even more lifespan.

So Limelady for saying you theory was ridiculous when its just as valid as anything I have said was very wrong of me, and I apologize for that, I have read many of your posts and your opinions and patients are very thoughtful of others. I just get so frustrated with people worrying what the Illuminati are doing because with every breath or thought we give them its a breath and thought more for them to exist. The Illuminati and those alike them are afraid of one thing, "each other". They will do more damage to themselves if we stop pushing them together and making them act out of loyalty towards each other. Starve the snakes and they will eat themselves.

Anyhoo its good to vent, no doubt it won't be the last time :D.
Peace LL

[sloughi]

In his first contact notes they said he would NEVER be allowed to take a picture of them because of the way human beings idolize and fear.True plus Semjase didn't want negative energy directed at her.


There were years of domination and cruelty by the Lyrian leaders.

The leaders were very developed, and portrayed themselves to be Gods of man. They were called Kings of Wisdom, by the word IHWH, which on Earth means GOD.

500 years of wars broke out between the leaders and the public for freedom.

· 230,000 years ago Asael leaves with 183 great spacers - 250 explorer ships and 360,000 people. Settled on one planet - then two more. This was the beginning of the Pleiades.

· Started exploring in space again. Found debris from old Lyra and discovered Earth. Settled on Earth and Milona(MALDEK)

Years of wars, Earth became a colony of deported warriors.

· A large culture grows up, and then is destroyed.

· On the home planet Erra in the Pleiades, a war breaks out again. 70,000 people flee under rule of Pelegon, a IHWH (god)

· War calms down on the home planets and remained peaceful ever since.



Ancient Lyra

The leaders were very developed, and portrayed themselves to be Gods of man. They were called Kings of Wisdom, by the word IHWH, which on Earth means GOD. After 500 years of wars between themselves there was a great exodus for freedoms. A leader named Asael leaves with 183 great spacers - 250 explorer ships and 360,000 people. They travel throughout space and finally settle on one planet - then two more.

After a time they started exploring in space again. Found debris from old Lyra and discovered Earth. Colonies were created on Earth and Milona. After years of wars, Earth became a colony of deported warriors. A large culture grows up, and then is destroyed.

On the home planet in Lyra a war breaks out again. 70,000 people flee under rule of Pelegon, a IHWH (god) and settle on Earth building a civilization which last for 10,000 years and ends around 40,000 years back.

[romas]

I love their message, but as I get older more and more I see them to childish in their approach, maybe if we knew the truth we'd be like children to, but I think it's the reason their message doesn't click on many, it's to simple and to naive.

On the same note I'm begining to undirstand why aliens do not land and shake hands, the difference in level of consciousness is to great, a superior civilization will always become gods in the eyes of the lesser one, look at your pets, foolish is the pet who thinks he is greater than his caretaker.

[sloughi]

Semjase is a demon. Pleiadians generally are.

[romas]

What are demons?

[father ted]

Semjase is a demon. Pleiadians generally are.

Yeah but ya wouldn't knock her back.

[sloughi]

What are you talking about?:confused:

[father ted]

What are you talking about?:confused:

You wouldn't say no.

[sloughi]

Have you got any of those pictures? If you don't want to post could you send a private message.

I found a video with the picture I seen. The picture I seen was the one with the satellite around the planet at 0:28-31.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK92DICAAV4&feature=related

[cinder_darkskys]

Very cool footage. The actual tape is about 20 to 30 minits long..

In the full footage you see the US of A flag on the satilites<s> an space station or lab around Mars.

in the full tape he gos so far as to not only sugust TIME travel. but produce imagery of a time when we had 2 moons. To me the Imagery of this looked very static, an unreallistic. exspecial the robbot, creators he shows.

The footage is poor an He's useing imagery to show imagery.
What i do fine hard to believe is, since 1970's. This so called Imagers, has never been re-relested, in better footages. This something the press of any time would jumped, on an plaster around the world, even back then. One side or the other

Sugusting TIME travel I believe is possible. There are things here the populations of the world do not fully under stand.

A show like Star Gate seem so unlikely. But from my point veiw. More real then you know. lets look at that the MARKS on the Ja'far fore heads center. above the 3 eye. We or most of us are marked in this way.

[thirdwave]

What are demons?

Originally, simply another world for spirits... or angels.... later through various religious texts the name was used in negative light..

as for Pleiadians being demons... no one here as met one or has a definite answer on what or who they are.. so to say that just shows very vague and careless research IMO.

say the word demon and try and not visualise a scary or negative thing, its quite hard to do... but keep trying to say the word nice and fresh from judgement and see if you can hear it in a new light like its a word like spirit of angel..... it shows you how words and names can leave in imprinted perception in your head, quite interesting..... slightly off topic but interesting..

[branjo]

Originally, simply another world for spirits... or angels.... later through various religious texts the name was used in negative light..

as for Pleiadians being demons... no one here as met one or has a definite answer on what or who they are.. so to say that just shows very vague and careless research IMO.

say the word demon and try and not visualise a scary or negative thing, its quite hard to do... but keep trying to say the word nice and fresh from judgement and see if you can hear it in a new light like its a word like spirit of angel..... it shows you how words and names can leave in imprinted perception in your head, quite interesting..... slightly off topic but interesting..

Very true 3rd, words themselves need to be cleaned from so many years of mental attachments to them.

A good little movie was that Golden Compass, were everyone had a demon which was a little animal guide the helped them and protected them and totally changed the appearance of the word "demon", and I believe the RC church wasn't to pleased about it either..awww bless 'em lol :D

[chesterd]

There's a good documentary on him called The Silent Revolution of Truth.Worth a watch.As far as I'm aware he hasn't made a penny from selling any of his stuff.
Peace

[romas]

I found a video with the picture I seen. The picture I seen was the one with the satellite around the planet at 0:28-31.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK92DICAAV4&feature=related




Thanks :)

For some reason I don't trust Randolf Winters.

[romas]

Originally, simply another world for spirits... or angels.... later through various religious texts the name was used in negative light..

as for Pleiadians being demons... no one here as met one or has a definite answer on what or who they are.. so to say that just shows very vague and careless research IMO.

say the word demon and try and not visualise a scary or negative thing, its quite hard to do... but keep trying to say the word nice and fresh from judgement and see if you can hear it in a new light like its a word like spirit of angel..... it shows you how words and names can leave in imprinted perception in your head, quite interesting..... slightly off topic but interesting..




Thanks, this is exactly the reason I asked him, people often say things they have been taught in a certain Carl Jungian archetype way(an image), some one says demons! - Well, what do you actually mean by that?

And when you ask directly people often think you're "untaught" or simply stupid. This degrades the level of conversation somewhat :(

As branjo pointed out same word can have many meanings even opposites ones.

[thirdwave]

Very true 3rd, words themselves need to be cleaned from so many years of mental attachments to them.

A good little movie was that Golden Compass, were everyone had a demon which was a little animal guide the helped them and protected them and totally changed the appearance of the word "demon", and I believe the RC church wasn't to pleased about it either..awww bless 'em lol :D

Yeah I saw that film .. good example!

[thirdwave]

Thanks, this is exactly the reason I asked him, people often say things they have been taught in a certain Carl Jungian archetype way(an image), some one says demons! - Well, what do you actually mean by that?

And when you ask directly people often think you're "untaught" or simply stupid. This degrades the level of conversation somewhat :(

As branjo pointed out same word can have many meanings even opposites ones.

well what do we call evil humans?... humandos?... Humanicons?

no they are humans... just bad humans.. just like you get good and bad spirits... angels... demons... that's how I see it..

[supertzar]

Billy Meier?

He's not so bad.

In fact he's 'armless.

Good one, sol!

[cinder_darkskys]

I try hard since I was here to explain that question to peaple.

What are demons?

Each preson, or most, has Angel an a Demon
We see this in Cartoons an hear in Wifes and fairly tales. These storys, tell more then they seem. They all discirbe in detail a magic world. a world differant then our own. a special place where every thing is better.

Angel can appear in the sky and as cloud, I have detailed IMAGERY. They are not hollow and alway have meening, I meen always have meening.
He is right there are wips of air in the sky, and just how the blind should see them. Thats how it should be.

Demon also have this abilitys but mainly in destuction, as far I know. They count on your blindness. Because they believe, in you, an that all that counts.

Possission of the body or vessal. there are tales of this happening including, the seen from the exorsist, I am Leigion. which is right out the bible. Christ Cast's Leigion out. < what intressing about this is. They beg for there lives)

Christ dose not kill them but casts them in to pigs. The spirte of the land, Or god tell, the land sprite to kill them. They the pigs charge off a clift. ether way. the demons move on. Why the Land sprite. Anamial go to the land the Natural pressences of god, they do not have a pice of god soul.

Other things about these passages are Christ seem to come just alone out the blue, by boat, accross water. He seems to talk to only 1 man, but refur to the vilage. and he lets the Demons go, but there no escape.

Angels an Demon can show you, your sin, it one the main ways they can harm or even kill you.

This can be showen.
As I said every person has one of each, main ones. They can even be IDENTIFED.

The warrios spirte Earth bound angel
Air sprite Earth bound angel
Land sprite Earth bound angel
Water sprite bound angels / demons
Death Earth bound angel

And many more.

Peaple with a whole demon, They can be beat. the demon exspeicial, since they work, with in emosision an cental ego or self. They force of a demon the same as an angel, an you cant not have 1 with out the other. There normanly confind to there sides of brain. Whole demon is in body or vessal, it could even be traped in the body, C. Manson. jailed

Best I can discribe a demon a form of unfeeling speical soldior. weapons are personal self dought, presonal miss trust.

When the hoop was fully active, an unbroken, a person commen could have something call a 3 Demon Pouch The Shamen Would atempt Cast out the demons an or lock it away.
In real time this is logical Srinks have been talking about feeling for years. in shamenisum, the person make a public display of his commitement an atemped to have his curse or sins removed. Shamen atemp to heal his sins. The demons would then be forced out and or locked away. The possesor of that pouch, which is not a phyical pouch, would then have the power over that sin. The Churchs dose the same kind of thing with pentance.

Other worldly Angels an Demons, most of the action is here on Earth.
I personaly have not studdies demonlogy. but I do know my Angels.

I believe you'll find the Greys helpfull there, seeming so other worldly. < I believe in fact in severail post I make menchin of beening at Ground Zero of a major event), Can change you.

I have made a post where I discribe a other worldly demon in Hell.

do not confuss metal disorder. its on a much diferent level, then religion.
I hope my oppinion helps

sorry for the type'os
peace

[limelady]

Thanks for your post cinder_darkskys.... I found that very insightful.

[romas]

well what do we call evil humans?... humandos?... Humanicons?

no they are humans... just bad humans.. just like you get good and bad spirits... angels... demons... that's how I see it..



Ahh but now we have to decipher what you mean by "evil" and "bad" ;)

[romas]

I try hard since I was here to explain that question to peaple.



Each preson, or most, has Angel an a Demon
We see this in Cartoons an hear in Wifes and fairly tales. These storys, tell more then they seem. They all discirbe in detail a magic world. a world differant then our own. a special place where every thing is better.

Angel can appear in the sky and as cloud, I have detailed IMAGERY. They are not hollow and alway have meening, I meen always have meening.
He is right there are wips of air in the sky, and just how the blind should see them. Thats how it should be.

Demon also have this abilitys but mainly in destuction, as far I know. They count on your blindness. Because they believe, in you, an that all that counts.

Possission of the body or vessal. there are tales of this happening including, the seen from the exorsist, I am Leigion. which is right out the bible. Christ Cast's Leigion out. < what intressing about this is. They beg for there lives)

Christ dose not kill them but casts them in to pigs. The spirte of the land, Or god tell, the land sprite to kill them. They the pigs charge off a clift. ether way. the demons move on. Why the Land sprite. Anamial go to the land the Natural pressences of god, they do not have a pice of god soul.

Other things about these passages are Christ seem to come just alone out the blue, by boat, accross water. He seems to talk to only 1 man, but refur to the vilage. and he lets the Demons go, but there no escape.

Angels an Demon can show you, your sin, it one the main ways they can harm or even kill you.

This can be showen.
As I said every person has one of each, main ones. They can even be IDENTIFED.

The warrios spirte Earth bound angel
Air sprite Earth bound angel
Land sprite Earth bound angel
Water sprite bound angels / demons
Death Earth bound angel

And many more.

Peaple with a whole demon, They can be beat. the demon exspeicial, since they work, with in emosision an cental ego or self. They force of a demon the same as an angel, an you cant not have 1 with out the other. There normanly confind to there sides of brain. Whole demon is in body or vessal, it could even be traped in the body, C. Manson. jailed

Best I can discribe a demon a form of unfeeling speical soldior. weapons are personal self dought, presonal miss trust.

When the hoop was fully active, an unbroken, a person commen could have something call a 3 Demon Pouch The Shamen Would atempt Cast out the demons an or lock it away.
In real time this is logical Srinks have been talking about feeling for years. in shamenisum, the person make a public display of his commitement an atemped to have his curse or sins removed. Shamen atemp to heal his sins. The demons would then be forced out and or locked away. The possesor of that pouch, which is not a phyical pouch, would then have the power over that sin. The Churchs dose the same kind of thing with pentance.

Other worldly Angels an Demons, most of the action is here on Earth.
I personaly have not studdies demonlogy. but I do know my Angels.

I believe you'll find the Greys helpfull there, seeming so other worldly. < I believe in fact in severail post I make menchin of beening at Ground Zero of a major event), Can change you.

I have made a post where I discribe a other worldly demon in Hell.

do not confuss metal disorder. its on a much diferent level, then religion.
I hope my oppinion helps

sorry for the type'os
peace





Interesting, thanks ^_^

[thirdwave]

Ahh but now we have to decipher what you mean by "evil" and "bad" ;)

this is true...

[thirdwave]

I try hard since I was here to explain that question to peaple.



Each preson, or most, has Angel an a Demon
We see this in Cartoons an hear in Wifes and fairly tales. These storys, tell more then they seem. They all discirbe in detail a magic world. a world differant then our own. a special place where every thing is better.

Angel can appear in the sky and as cloud, I have detailed IMAGERY. They are not hollow and alway have meening, I meen always have meening.
He is right there are wips of air in the sky, and just how the blind should see them. Thats how it should be.

Demon also have this abilitys but mainly in destuction, as far I know. They count on your blindness. Because they believe, in you, an that all that counts.

Possission of the body or vessal. there are tales of this happening including, the seen from the exorsist, I am Leigion. which is right out the bible. Christ Cast's Leigion out. < what intressing about this is. They beg for there lives)

Christ dose not kill them but casts them in to pigs. The spirte of the land, Or god tell, the land sprite to kill them. They the pigs charge off a clift. ether way. the demons move on. Why the Land sprite. Anamial go to the land the Natural pressences of god, they do not have a pice of god soul.

Other things about these passages are Christ seem to come just alone out the blue, by boat, accross water. He seems to talk to only 1 man, but refur to the vilage. and he lets the Demons go, but there no escape.

Angels an Demon can show you, your sin, it one the main ways they can harm or even kill you.

This can be showen.
As I said every person has one of each, main ones. They can even be IDENTIFED.

The warrios spirte Earth bound angel
Air sprite Earth bound angel
Land sprite Earth bound angel
Water sprite bound angels / demons
Death Earth bound angel

And many more.

Peaple with a whole demon, They can be beat. the demon exspeicial, since they work, with in emosision an cental ego or self. They force of a demon the same as an angel, an you cant not have 1 with out the other. There normanly confind to there sides of brain. Whole demon is in body or vessal, it could even be traped in the body, C. Manson. jailed

Best I can discribe a demon a form of unfeeling speical soldior. weapons are personal self dought, presonal miss trust.

When the hoop was fully active, an unbroken, a person commen could have something call a 3 Demon Pouch The Shamen Would atempt Cast out the demons an or lock it away.
In real time this is logical Srinks have been talking about feeling for years. in shamenisum, the person make a public display of his commitement an atemped to have his curse or sins removed. Shamen atemp to heal his sins. The demons would then be forced out and or locked away. The possesor of that pouch, which is not a phyical pouch, would then have the power over that sin. The Churchs dose the same kind of thing with pentance.

Other worldly Angels an Demons, most of the action is here on Earth.
I personaly have not studdies demonlogy. but I do know my Angels.

I believe you'll find the Greys helpfull there, seeming so other worldly. < I believe in fact in severail post I make menchin of beening at Ground Zero of a major event), Can change you.

I have made a post where I discribe a other worldly demon in Hell.

do not confuss metal disorder. its on a much diferent level, then religion.
I hope my oppinion helps

sorry for the type'os
peace

Before the bible was here the word "daimon" in ancient Greek simply meant "higher self" ... or "Spirit" ....

as usual through time we have seen alterations on what these words are to confuse and distort the message they are contained within....

for example if anyone reads an old Greek text (if they could get their hands on it) explaining how to interact with the daimon (higher self) ..it would have been feared as evil magic.. and more than likely destroyed.

I believe the origins of Angel was the Greek word "angelos" which meant "messenger".

I like to look deep and focus on the core of what the words meant... and look and see how every religion has taken them and created their own depiction of what these things are, that suit their doctrines...

I personally feel demon is more of a word that describes our inner selves... where Angel is word to describe interaction with it.

[branjo]

When we look at anything given to us via religion we have to be very very careful on how we let that into our lives, like you said thirdwave "demon" can't be given the evil label to quickly.

The church has always tried to control us so any threat to that control is quickly termed "evil", "bad" or "demon" and anything that enforces that control gets the label "Angel".

Now the Lucifarians take this to another extreme by saying they will take everything the Christian church says and reverse it because they were killing luciferians left and right so you can't blame them for leaning to the opposite direction, they believe that they are good, and as long as they act good, there is no real difference to the debate, they are cast as evil everywhere that Christianity went to spread the word, and vice versa for Luciferians. Each create conflict in the unknowing person who has never heard of either.

There is nothing wrong with any person who believes in something, but there (for me) is something wrong with the "need" to believe in anything outside of yourself. By believing in yourself you are also believing in everyone else because they are you.

By worshiping God as separate from existence, even in the slightest way seems very contrary to the message. Do we really think that the war between good and evil causes bloodshed on both sides?

For me, I think the war between good and evil is completely one sided, in my heart of hearts I don't see "good" fighting back at all, I don't think it has the need to fight. In a fight you can choose not to fight and you can choose it right to the end of your life. You will die good, the second you lift your hands in anger you become bad, you insight conflict. We are led to believe that Angles with take up sword and shield and kill Demons. Something about that just does not compute for me.

The church tries to whip us into a frenzy in order to produce conflict in the heart of the people it controls, now I am not saying all priests of the RC church are evil, but they come from a long line of bloodshed and horrible deeds in the name of the god of love.
Even as a child this was a huge contradiction to me.

Lately I have come to the conclusion as have many others that religion doesn't seem like enough, there are too many dead ends that end in contradiction for me to apply all my energy to it. Spirituality came first, Always! what ever religion resides in the world it was started by a centering from spirituality, religion came from people trying to explain that spirituality to others and then the ground work was laid for dogmas to flourish, now if you want to believe in a religion, it has to be a certain way with certain rules, you can no longer come to the conclusion yourself and expect to call yourself a member of that religion. It seems most religion come with a small print of "All rights reserved".

[demise_of_time]

When we look at anything given to us via religion we have to be very very careful on how we let that into our lives, like you said thirdwave "demon" can't be given the evil label to quickly.

The church has always tried to control us so any threat to that control is quickly termed "evil", "bad" or "demon" and anything that enforces that control gets the label "Angel".

Now the Lucifarians take this to another extreme by saying they will take everything the Christian church says and reverse it because they were killing luciferians left and right so you can't blame them for leaning to the opposite direction, they believe that they are good, and as long as they act good, there is no real difference to the debate, they are cast as evil everywhere that Christianity went to spread the word, and vice versa for Luciferians. Each create conflict in the unknowing person who has never heard of either.

There is nothing wrong with any person who believes in something, but there (for me) is something wrong with the "need" to believe in anything outside of yourself. By believing in yourself you are also believing in everyone else because they are you.

By worshiping God as separate from existence, even in the slightest way seems very contrary to the message. Do we really think that the war between good and evil causes bloodshed on both sides?

For me, I think the war between good and evil is completely one sided, in my heart of hearts I don't see "good" fighting back at all, I don't think it has the need to fight. In a fight you can choose not to fight and you can choose it right to the end of your life. You will die good, the second you lift your hands in anger you become bad, you insight conflict. We are led to believe that Angles with take up sword and shield and kill Demons. Something about that just does not compute for me.

The church tries to whip us into a frenzy in order to produce conflict in the heart of the people it controls, now I am not saying all priests of the RC church are evil, but they come from a long line of bloodshed and horrible deeds in the name of the god of love.
Even as a child this was a huge contradiction to me.

Lately I have come to the conclusion as have many others that religion doesn't seem like enough, there are too many dead ends that end in contradiction for me to apply all my energy to it. Spirituality came first, Always! what ever religion resides in the world it was started by a centering from spirituality, religion came from people trying to explain that spirituality to others and then the ground work was laid for dogmas to flourish, now if you want to believe in a religion, it has to be a certain way with certain rules, you can no longer come to the conclusion yourself and expect to call yourself a member of that religion. It seems most religion come with a small print of "All rights reserved".

Absolutely amazing post with many VERY true points. Bravo my friend; you took the words out of my mouth on this one :)

[freeworld]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsp6lF4SCKI

[father ted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsp6lF4SCKI

I have seen that whole vid and many others from Randy Winters, I find his info to be good, better than the others! It's interesting what he has to say about figu...

[romas]

When we look at anything given to us via religion we have to be very very careful on how we let that into our lives, like you said thirdwave "demon" can't be given the evil label to quickly.

The church has always tried to control us so any threat to that control is quickly termed "evil", "bad" or "demon" and anything that enforces that control gets the label "Angel".

Now the Lucifarians take this to another extreme by saying they will take everything the Christian church says and reverse it because they were killing luciferians left and right so you can't blame them for leaning to the opposite direction, they believe that they are good, and as long as they act good, there is no real difference to the debate, they are cast as evil everywhere that Christianity went to spread the word, and vice versa for Luciferians. Each create conflict in the unknowing person who has never heard of either.

There is nothing wrong with any person who believes in something, but there (for me) is something wrong with the "need" to believe in anything outside of yourself. By believing in yourself you are also believing in everyone else because they are you.

By worshiping God as separate from existence, even in the slightest way seems very contrary to the message. Do we really think that the war between good and evil causes bloodshed on both sides?

For me, I think the war between good and evil is completely one sided, in my heart of hearts I don't see "good" fighting back at all, I don't think it has the need to fight. In a fight you can choose not to fight and you can choose it right to the end of your life. You will die good, the second you lift your hands in anger you become bad, you insight conflict. We are led to believe that Angles with take up sword and shield and kill Demons. Something about that just does not compute for me.

The church tries to whip us into a frenzy in order to produce conflict in the heart of the people it controls, now I am not saying all priests of the RC church are evil, but they come from a long line of bloodshed and horrible deeds in the name of the god of love.
Even as a child this was a huge contradiction to me.

Lately I have come to the conclusion as have many others that religion doesn't seem like enough, there are too many dead ends that end in contradiction for me to apply all my energy to it. Spirituality came first, Always! what ever religion resides in the world it was started by a centering from spirituality, religion came from people trying to explain that spirituality to others and then the ground work was laid for dogmas to flourish, now if you want to believe in a religion, it has to be a certain way with certain rules, you can no longer come to the conclusion yourself and expect to call yourself a member of that religion. It seems most religion come with a small print of "All rights reserved".






Pretty much the same as the Plejaren view from Billy Meiers notes ;)

I agree btw :)

[branjo]

I have seen that whole vid and many others from Randy Winters, I find his info to be good, better than the others! It's interesting what he has to say about figu...

Yeah I too got more insight from Randy than other sources, He seemed to be only concerned with what Billy had to say than FIGU. Totally agree with you, randy to me is a good sort of guy and comes across well.

[kasalt]

some have announced that he has been "officially" debunked (for what that's worth)

what have these people got to say this.. can someone fill me in on why some think he has been debunked?

This ought to suffice:

Originally Posted by cheeb http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1036577#post1036577)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6824/meiernavealca1zt0.jpg
Seen above, a shot of Billy Meier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Meier)’s “weddingcake” craft, allegedly an extraterrestrial device. A strange appendage is circled in blue. What could it possibly be?

According to The Billy Meier case: more conclusive “smoking gun” proof of deception (http://thebiggestsecret.online.fr/ufo/billy_meier_smoking_gun.htm), that’s just the handle of a garbage can lid that can be found on Meier’s farm:

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/5371/meiertampalacakl4.jpg

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/ufo/Wedding_Cake_garbage_compare.jpg

Read the full analysis (http://thebiggestsecret.online.fr/ufo/billy_meier_smoking_gun.htm) for much more details. But maybe the best part is the “explanation” given by Meier (or his aliens) for why the lower part of an alleged alien craft looks exactly like a garbage can lid, complete with a handle. From Meier’s 254th Contact Report, November 28, 1995:

Ptaah: “. . . As far back as the 1920s we worked with flying devices you have named the ‘Wedding Cake Ship,’ … we endeavored to transmit all of the necessary data regarding the vehicles’ shape to terrestrial scientists, in the form of telepathic impulses, to assist them in developing flying disks on Earth … We thoroughly investigated the entire situation and discovered that the old, newly re-emerged drawings were used for the design and production of these receptacle covers. … This, then, is how the shape of the container covers came about, which, as I mentioned earlier, strikingly resemble the lower rim section and undercarriage on our flying devices.”

It’s more ridiculous than his excuses (http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/may/m23-010.shtml) as to why his photos of the pretty Pleiadian girls were exactly like dancers from the Dean Martin show.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9426/ding8avq4.jpg

Photographing an American show on TV and claiming it was a real contact with aliens is also not much different from photographing a book illustration and claiming it was from a time travel trip. Click here (http://www.spacetimenews.com/) to check “SpaceTimeNews” comparison:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6176/meierdinosaurhoax2qhgjkao0.jpg

Knowing how Meier created his alien ship, and having a photograph of an enthusiast on his farm proudly holding a garbage can lid (probably assuming it was obviously different, which it is not), tempted me to use some Photoshop skills to correctly scale the Weddingcake craft. The result:

http://forgetomori.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/tampalixoplieadiana.jpg

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/2605/iwanttobelievebillt.jpg

Not...!!!

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/alva1977/Morrissey/Picture043.gif

[kasalt]

Loads of stuff at these links...


The Photographs Of Billy Meier

Asket and Nera Photo Deconstruction (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/asket_nera_deconstruction.html) Updated!
Dinosaur Photo Deconstruction (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/dinosaur_deconstruction.html) Updated!
Fire Ship Photo Deconstruction (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/fire_ship_deconstruction.html)
Wedding Cake UFO Deconstruction (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/wedding_cake_ufo_deconstruction.html) Updated!
Wandering Tree Deconstruction (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/wandering_tree_deconstruction.html) New!
IIG Photographs Compared To Billy Meier Photographs (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/ufopix.html)
High Resolution IIG Photographs (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/highres_photos.html)
Formerly Secret "Easter Egg" IIG Photograph Explanation (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/meier.html)


The Audio Of Billy Meier

Billy Meier Space Ship Audio Deconstruction (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/space_ship_audio_deconstruction.html)


The Metal Of Billy Meier

Metal Analysis Deconstruction (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/metal_analysis_deconstruction.html) New!


The Prophecies Of Billy Meier

Bugey Prophecy Deconstruction (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/bugey_prophecy_deconstruction.html)
WWIII Prophecy Deconstruction (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/wwiii_prophecy_deconstruction.html) Updated!
Research Into Billy Meier's Predictions: An Informal Report by Ike42 (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/ike42report.htm)


The Publicist Of Billy Meier

Who is Michael Horn? (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/horn.shtml)
The Misquotes of Michael Horn (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/misquotes_of_michael_horn.html)
Email Correspondence with Michael Horn (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/horn.letters.html)
Summary of the August 27, 2008 Emails (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/horn_email_summary.html)



(http://thebiggestsecret.online.fr/ufo/billy_meier_smoking_gun.htm)

[thirdwave]

So we can see those parts are blatant.... (apart from the two girls that are two different people with blond hair)

makes you ask the question why these points were not spotted at the hight of his claim when all eyes where really on him....

why so late in the story did these things become noticed?

are these pictures and stuff straight from the man him self or latter?

Its not as if BM is the weight behind the UFO thing anyway... But its also hard when these debunks come out, the manner in which they do.

[kasalt]

So we can see those parts are blatant.... (apart from the two girls that are two different people with blond hair)

I don't know why you can't see the clear resemblance between Billy Meyer's photographs of the alleged "Pleiadians" and the babes on the Dean Martin TV show. They are clearly the same women. Even Billy Meyer admits that now--his excuse is that they were snuck into his books by the "men in black" in order to discredit him...:rolleyes:

makes you ask the question why these points were not spotted at the hight of his claim when all eyes where really on him....

why so late in the story did these things become noticed?

1) Because most UFO enthusiasts tend not to be very good fact checkers. They tend to fall more into the category of "believers" rather than investigators.

2) The internet is a tremendous resource for this sort of fact checking. People could easily get away with a lot more back then than they can now.

[father ted]

The problem I have is this; in a Randy Winters documentary/talk that he did, (on youtube, post 122 of this thread), he shows that he filmed Billy's photo album, and Billy is taking him throught it as he's filming the photos. They go right to the photos of the two girls, there's more than one. In this, you know that Billy would have had a good look at those photos and he would have known straight away that they're fake.

But then Randy proceeds to talk about those photos to the audience, as if he doesn't know they're fake, which means he never discussed this with Billy; which in turn would leave us to assume that Billy didn't know they're fake? (surely he would have told him) This doesn't make sense. However, in the footage that he was showing to the audience in that lecture, you never see Billy's face, only his hands.

Is Randy genuine? If he is, than what's going on? His presentations are good and more insightfull than others'!

Another reason I find this strange is because of a 5 hour conference that I watched on google, about Billy Meier, which also had his son speaking and a woman that had seen Asket. This goes back to 1999.

This woman who is called Phobo Cheng, describes Asket as having a completely different appearance to the ones on the photos and that is how she knew the photos were fake. She had met up with Billy after not having seen him since she was little. Billy's son and others who had met Billy were at the conference.

The Randy Winters presentations took place earlier than that 1999 conference.

[michael christopher]

he is an interesting man..as is Riley Martin

Riley Martin is a self-centered maniac who makes a joke of serious subjects.

[freethinker]

He predicted current pope is supposedly last one, so I'm kinda looking up to that information ^^

there is a place in portugal where there was an apparition at a place called fatima

a lady (supposed to be mary but probably a plaedian), gave some messages that were delivered to the pope, the shooting of him was predicted and a few other things.

i suspect that the final secret is that aliens do exist and god doesn't

[thirdwave]

I don't know why you can't see the clear resemblance between Billy Meyer's photographs of the alleged "Pleiadians" and the babes on the Dean Martin TV show. They are clearly the same women. Even Billy Meyer admits that now--his excuse is that they were snuck into his books by the "men in black" in order to discredit him... :rolleyes: going by these pictures I don't think its the same woman, they look alike but it is by no means solid...... also if he has claimed they were sneaked into his books by the men in black, would that not be easy to expose as a lie having to just point out where BM previously promoted them first hand?...

1) Because most UFO enthusiasts tend not to be very good fact checkers. They tend to fall more into the category of "believers" rather than investigators.

Says the forum bible basher :)
It is a fact that thousands of UFOs are seen every year...

it is a fact that thousands of abduction cases have been reported officaly...

it is a fact that ex military and government offical speak of UFO or ETE cover ups....

it is a fact that ancient texts and pictures reference UFOs...

it is a fact that there are secret bases that neither you or I could get within a sniff...

but the guy who comes here to tell us that Jesus Christ is going to come back and save humanity (or those who believe in him) is telling us that UFO enthusiasts like to avoid facts ...

lol !


2) The internet is a tremendous resource for this sort of fact checking. People could easily get away with a lot more back then than they can now.

The internet is also stacked full of bullshit as well.... it depends with websites you favour ... and why. :)

[kasalt]

going by these pictures I don't think its the same woman, they look alike but it is by no means solid...

It is by all means solid.

This is a photo of "Asket" from Billy Meyer's 1983 book, UFO…Contact From The Pleiades Volume II
http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/Contact_From_The_Pleiades-Asket-small.jpg

Below is a better quality photo of "Asket" from Billy Meyer's 1991 book, …And Yet They Fly!
http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/And_Yet_They_Fly-German-Asket-small.jpg

Now here is a still of singer/dancer Michelle DellaFave from the Dean Martin TV show:
http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/vlcsnap-9421794.jpg

Look at her hair. Notice the little "sideburn" deal she has going with her hair? It's exactly the same in all 3 photos. Granted she has a different facial expression in the 3rd photo, but it's obviously the same chick.

Says the forum bible basher :)

Me, a Bible-basher? Thirdwave, I think you've been doing wayyy too many mind-numbing drugs. See my thread: Why don't Jews believe in Jesus? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66093) and then call me a "Bible-basher".

It is a fact that thousands of UFOs are seen every year...

it is a fact that thousands of abduction cases have been reported officaly...

it is a fact that ex military and government offical speak of UFO or ETE cover ups....

it is a fact that ancient texts and pictures reference UFOs...

it is a fact that there are secret bases that neither you or I could get within a sniff...

but the guy who comes here to tell us that Jesus Christ is going to come back and save humanity (or those who believe in him) is telling us that UFO enthusiasts like to avoid facts ...

lol !

Yes, lol indeed! :D

Once again, I will reference you to my Why don't Jews believe in Jesus? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66093) thread.

Furthermore, you don't have to tell me that UFOs exist. I KNOW because I've seen them on more than one occasion. For example, back in 1994 a massive UFO flew directly over my head at cloud level. I watched it fly across the sky towards the horizon, where it eventually disappeared into the thickness of a cloud. As I say, you don't have to tell me that UFOs exist. My only question is, Who's piloting them?

The internet is also stacked full of bullshit as well.... it depends with websites you favour ... and why. :)

I favour websites that present facts--facts which I verify for myself through my own research before I accept their claims as valid.

Which websites do you favour?

[branjo]

I think Billy has been out of the loop for quite sometime, that FIGU and the people around him, is what turned Randy winters of the whole mess, for a "new" copy of Billy's book it is a ridiculous price.

Billy said very early on that he would never be allowed to take a photo of these guys that to much emotion is attached to a photo, so as a scenario maybe billy just sat watching the dean martin show one night and though "Fuck me, that girl looks exactly like Asket" and as its not actually her then no harm could be done"...lol. It may have happened that way or someone else could have done it.

I feel sorry for this old man, cause he had nothing to gain from his disclosure but the heartache of people calling him a liar for the rest of his life.

Incidentally he was asked to either build or advise on the building of models to illustrate where and how the crafts came, these models could be the main reason for the debunkers proof of hoax.

Is he or was he at the time of his disclosure a professional in the photography field? I mean people say "with photoshop I can do anything" well I say without photoshop or a computer can you still do anything and make it look like these videos and pictures, and all with one arm to boot.

If people don't believe him that's is fine and there is no point in fighting about that aspect. The truth is we have no idea past his videos of him actually saying these things than the possible written word that could quite clearly be someone else.

I mean with a smirk and a giggle the government convinced everyone in 1947 that the Roswell crash was a missing weather balloon, even though shorty after they did recover the balloon intact.

We all think with the mind that Aliens do exist outside our realm of conscious awareness but we are immediately suspicious of someone who tries to give proof, now there is no denying that there are MIB who have every single available resource and funding to cover anything up that would lead the people to know what the government agencies know. To the PTB secrets are power and any threat to that power has their utmost attention.

So who exactly has more merit for the truth, an old farmer in the hills of Switzerland who is still living in those hills on the same farm doing the same things as he has always done, or the people around him making an absolute fortune selling their stories of Billy Meier to the highest bidder, or to the companies involved in the printing of his documents which range into the thousands of contact notes btw.

How far would a hoaxer go in preparing his hoax to the world, would they take 30-40 years of their life defending it. This old man could be on the edge of a nervous break down and in his turmoil could have signed any document without even knowing what it was. I think what started out as Billy's story has been claimed by the greed of money and now the money has dried up with regarding truth, the money moves to the process of dismantling that truth.

My gut instinct tells me there is truth to Billy Meier the man. What has culminated around him is where I see the problems.

[thirdwave]

Thank you, these resemblance is clearer here.. not that it was necessary as my point still stands regardless..

Me, a Bible-basher? Thirdwave, I think you've been doing wayyy too many mind-numbing drugs. See my thread: Why don't Jews believe in Jesus? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66093) and then call me a "Bible-basher".

So you do not believe that Jesus is the son of god, and that Christ is the way out of the NWO?


Furthermore, you don't have to tell me that UFOs exist. I KNOW because I've seen them on more than one occasion. For example, back in 1994 a massive UFO flew directly over my head at cloud level. I watched it fly across the sky towards the horizon, where it eventually disappeared into the thickness of a cloud. As I say, you don't have to tell me that UFOs exist. My only question is, Who's piloting them?

you don't appear to be asking questions.

And I believe I referenced ETEs as well... by the way Im not asking you to debunk all this as i can look for my self, im pointing out the facts that are within it.. not the theories that surround it.




I favour websites that present facts--facts which I verify for myself through my own research before I accept their claims as valid.

what ever you say..


Which websites do you favour?
Ones I think are interesting.

[kasalt]

So you do not believe that Jesus is the son of god, and that Christ is the way out of the NWO?

When I was a child, one of my older sisters had a book on gnomes, and she believed in the existence of gnomes and fairies. I took one look at the book and protested, "This isn't true!" Then she took one look at me and said, "It's true if you believe it."

That said, I tend to deal with facts, not with beliefs. The fact is that for the last 8 years, Christians in America have been the strongest supporters of the Bush administration. The more Christian they are, the more they supported Bush, and Bush was doing his part to bring in the NWO. So how can Jesus or Christianity be the way out of the NWO, when Christians have been doing their part to bring in the NWO? The whole idea of Christianity or Christians saving us from the NWO strikes me as ridiculous because Christians are (and have been) the most easily duped segment of the population.

[thirdwave]

When I was a child, one of my older sisters had a book on gnomes, and she believed in the existence of gnomes and fairies. I took one look at the book and protested, "This isn't true!" Then she took one look at me and said, "It's true if you believe it."

That said, I tend to deal with facts, not with beliefs. The fact is that for the last 8 years, Christians in America have been the strongest supporters of the Bush administration. The more Christian they are, the more they supported Bush, and Bush was doing his part to bring in the NWO. So how can Jesus or Christianity be the way out of the NWO, when Christians have been doing their part to bring in the NWO? The whole idea of Christianity or Christians saving us from the NWO strikes me as ridiculous because Christians are (and have been) the most easily duped segment of the population.

I seem to recall you being very pro christian and bible.. excuse me if I am wrong...

[kasalt]

I seem to recall you being very pro christian and bible.. excuse me if I am wrong...

No problem at all, mate. I am a strong critic of the errors in Zeitgeist, that's why you think I'm pro-Christian and pro-Bible.

[freethinker]

the pledians have extra long ear lobes - or so I have been told

[freethinker]

http://www.super-hair.net/qs-0906.html

looks like she has changed - or has had plastic surgery

this is her singing - http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/michelledellafave-01.m3u

[novymir]

If this was hoaxed then powers that can pull this off are very serious, beyond any official organisation on earth today, we're talking serious technology and mind manipulation and wisdom-knowledge you name it.



Yes, they are very serious, and the rest.
That is the advantage they are exploiting, a higher level of "dimensional" perception, and intellect.
We are like mice in a privacy-glass encased spherical labyrinth to "them"( or "fish in a barrel"). But they lack Spirit, and do not understand it(though they do try to copy it, or sell a counterfeit), their Achilles Heal. It's all (finite) intellect for them, calculations, mathematical
predictability, stimulus-response, ,,, that's why it's so important to increase awareness of the Creative Spirit within, and let IT inform the mind, IT is Infinite, unpredictable, and All-Knowing.

I'm not saying either way concerning the topic of the thread , but, Knowing or having an idea of their true capabilities is helpful.
Anyways, now I'll read the rest of this interesting thread.

[kasalt]

Billy said very early on that he would never be allowed to take a photo of these guys that to much emotion is attached to a photo, so as a scenario maybe billy just sat watching the dean martin show one night and though "Fuck me, that girl looks exactly like Asket" and as its not actually her then no harm could be done"...lol. It may have happened that way or someone else could have done it.

Here is Billy Meyer's own absurd explanation for the "Asket and Nera" photographs:
"Unfortunately, during my conversation with Ptaah he revealed that the two women depicted on the photos are not Asket and Nera from the DAL Universe, but two American look-alikes. These photos are malicious hoaxes and were switched upon the order of and in collaboration with the 'Men in Black.'"

[vienna]

Well I came across a lot of info on him so I just pick a few.

Is it true that he said that traveled back in time and took this picture (which is actually from a painting)?

http://www.nutz.ca/pics/dino1.jpg

the painting

http://www.nutz.ca/pics/pteranodon.jpg

His ex wife said it was all a hoax (and yea I know she just could be trying to hurt him) and why is he asking for money for the analysis' of his proof? You would think he would be just giving that to everyone who asked for free.

There is just too much against him, even Stanton Friedman said the photos are fake....Sorry I have to go but like I said just too much against him.

just a thought but given the big organisations out to discredit him (the knights of st john episode bit in that google documentary) could that painting have been commissioned and done after the photo was taken to make him look like a hoax? - they have the money and resources to go to these lengths - and given the impact of Meier if he is geniune they will do everything to stop him

i've been folowing Meier for years and am still undecided ... the Talmunt Emmanuel stuff is very compelling and convincing

[kasalt]

just a thought but given the big organisations out to discredit him (the knights of st john episode bit in that google documentary) could that painting have been commissioned and done after the photo was taken to make him look like a hoax?

"This illustration is by Zdenek Burian and was published in 1972 in the book Life Before Man, which was written by Zdenek V. Spinar. This book was first published in Prague. It is possible that Meier thought it would be an obscure enough of a book that no one would notice. However, it was picked up by the British publishing company of Thames & Hudson and was then published throughout the world."
Source: http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/dinosaur_deconstruction.html

Here is the page in question:

http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/Life_Before_Man-Image-small.jpg

[size_of_light]

http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/Contact_From_The_Pleiades-Asket-small.jpg

Below is a better quality photo of "Asket" from Billy Meyer's 1991 book, …And Yet They Fly!
http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/And_Yet_They_Fly-German-Asket-small.jpg

Now here is a still of singer/dancer Michelle DellaFave from the Dean Martin TV show:
http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/vlcsnap-9421794.jpg

Why are people still undecided about this guy, once they're familiar with the above?

[kasalt]

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/106.gif

It's absolutely incredible to me that people still feel compelled to believe in this nonsense even after irrefutable proof of fraud has been presented.

[trev1]

Yes there is some dodgy stuff that has appeared such as the dinosaur photos
and the Dean Martin photos. Also his ex-wife said recently he was a fake. But
bear in mind she passed lie detector tests in the 70s where she swore he was
truthful...also keep in mind that he claims that there are forces that tampered
with some of that to make him look like a fraud. Surely on David Ickes forum you
could accept that possibility??

My own opinon for what its worth is that something happened to him
at some stage. But when the media exposure hit he may have hoaxed
some of it? why? well he is only human and maybe he wanted to add on
bells and whistles to make people believe his story. So I think there is
real stuff , mixed with some stuff that was hoaxed mixed with some stuff
that has been tampered with by the powers that be. As David Icke said
very few things in this world is black and white, more like shades of grey
and this case is a great example. There are some people out there (illuminati)
that would have cause for the infomormation he was getting not to come out
becuase it would discredit most if not all religions. Maybe they WANTED
Meier to look like a hoax..

For me There is still some really good evidence for example:
1. The photos he took of UFOs around 75-76 have been analysed by experts
and they said there not fake

2. Hundreds of witnesses seeing lights in the sky around the mid seventies
during the time of the contacts. In the area he lived many people other
than Billy saw the Beamships. Friends and neighbours swore to the people
that initially investigated the case (Wandell Stevens, Lee Elders, Britt
Elders). See:


3. Billy Meier passed Lie Detector tests

4. There is the noise recoring of the UFO which was analysed by experts
of the time and it could be compared to nothing that could be generated
at that time. Plus Wendell Stevens was investigating at this time and he
claimed that 20-30 minutes after the noise started the police arrived - they
were called by people 7-8 miles away that complained about the noise.
You should try to hear this noise - it really send shivers up my spine when
I heard it.

5. Metal fragments from the UFO - again analysed by experts who said
that they could not find any earth substance there

6. Through his many contacts Billy has been given infomation about the
about the history of the earth and so on - none of which is contradictory.
I found it strange that were he lieing he would surley trip himself up
somewhere. I mean he literall has dozens of contact notes - surely if
he was lieing he would slip up here.... They also gave him many
prophecies , many of which have come true as far as I know

7. Hes had something like a dozen attempts on his life for various reasons.
One of them was witnessed by 14 people who thought he was shot dead.
Only thing was he was wearing a metal plate on his side. He said that a day
or two before the pleadies aliens propehcised the assanation attempt and
told him to wear a metal plate. Its actually amazing the metal plate still
has the bullet mark in it !

8. Before he went to Swizerland he lived in India where he also had contacts
and took some amazing photos. People ahve come forward that verify what
he seen , in actaul fact one woman claims that she knew one of the alien
contactees!


9. Theres so amazing video footage. One especially that has a car driving by
underneath the object. Another is of a UFO 10-12 feet across - judging by the
area it covers across a tree and can be seen the braches are in front of the ufo

Anyway i'm not 100% certain of this been genuine and I DO ACCEPT there
have been some dodgy stuff found to maybe point to hoax but as far as im
concerned based on points 1-9 there are still some things that happened
him that CANNOT be answered. My own feeling is that something did happen
around 75-78/79 but once the publicity hit he maybe tried to fake some
things to make people accept it more. Thats my gut feeling , he is only a
human being after all.

[supertzar]

He says the Men in Black switched it. Is that impossible? Other sources have claimed that fake Meier material has been put out to discredit him.

[trev1]

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/106.gif

It's absolutely incredible to me that people still feel compelled to believe in this nonsense even after irrefutable proof of fraud has been presented.

You taking thee higher 'i know it all ground' is soo annoying!

Its NOT irrefutable proof of fruad ..... please explain to me:

ONE
Please explain how hundreds of his neighbours and friends seen lights in
the sky ..... was he a magician too? some man for a one armed man..
David Copperfield of the 70s

TWO
His contact notes and predictions and prophecies - hy have a lot of them
come true (some very specific) and the contact notes DONT have any
contradictions. He must have been Charles Dickens too right?

THREE
The sound recordings -
1. How did he create those recordings using a simple cassette deck?

2. How can it be explained how several other witnessed heard the sound?

3. How is there a documented account from Wendelle Stevens that after
20 mins police arrived on the scene. They had gotten complaints from
neighbours about the noise 7 miles away.

4. The sound engineers that originally analysed the tapes found them very
strange and one even drew a drawing of what he thought was making it
which turned out very similar to one of the UFOs photographed. These
experts were selected by Wendelle Stevens, Britt and Lee Elders who
still stand by the results of the analysis.

5. If it is a hoax im still waiting for someone to tell me 'WHAT' the sounds
are and 'HOW' he created them.

FOUR
The photos of the UFOS. Its been shown that the tree in
the picture exists:
http://www.theyfly.com/UFO_Mag_Article_files/image009.gif
And judging by the size of the tree they assessed the UFO to be 10-12ft
across. Now, if it is a model it a fairly big one and please explain how
a one armed man manufactured this...

FIVE
He passed LIE DETECTOR tests ... please see :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB1ARjj0wXw

SIX
Three people that initially investigated the case tried to catch him out a
number of times but failed. These people : Wendelle Stevens, Britt Elders and Lee Elders
to this day stand by the througohness og the investigation and the results they came too.
Infact all 3 claimed to have experienced some type of unexplained stuff when living with Billy..

[size_of_light]

Ive been familiar with this case since my early teens and have kept tabs on it ever since.

He's definitely connected to different intelligence agencies and the whole thing is a massive psy-op/mindfuck/experiment.

None of the channeled shit he's presented is at all impressive. None of the film that's been shot couldn't be done with a few (fairly primitive) toys made by him and others or handed to him by somebody else. A lot of his photos are proven fakes.

He's been caught out many times and gullible idiots then swallow explanations about people trying to discredit him.

Measuring the extent to which those gullible idiots will swallow the covering lies form part of the long-term experiment being run.

Bottom line: there's nothing positive in any of this. It's all intended to manipulate and deceive.

The Bill Hicks line couldn't be more aptly applied than here: It's a piece of shit. Walk away.

[limelady]

Ive been familiar with this case since my early teens and have kept tabs on it ever since.

Ditto!

He's definitely connected to different intelligence agencies and the whole thing is a massive psy-op/mindfuck/experiment.

I am of this same opinion after thoroughly looking into this case over a number of years. I feel the Billy Meier "case" is closely related to those involved in Project Paper Clip.

None of the channeled shit he's presented is at all impressive. None of the film that's been shot couldn't be done with a few (fairly primitive) toys made by him and others or handed to him by somebody else. A lot of his photos are proven fakes.

The channelled "shit" could quite easily be advanced tech (easy when you are many decades ahead with this unacknowledged stuff), and we know the Nazi's had UFO technology WAY back in the late 1930's and 40's .....and Switzerland (where Meier lives) is not far from Germany.....as the crow (or UFO?) flies. So it seems highly likely to me Meier and his neighbours, followers etc DID actually see and hear real craft......just maybe not Pleiadian. I do believe at some point in is life, Meier may have seen REAL UFO's and this would make him a great subject for a major psyops experiment in human gullibility. I believe he has likely been under heavy mind=control for many decades.....possibly his wife as well. This would account for how they both managed to pass lie detector tests.....they BOTH believed it all to be real. His wife later came out and said he was a fraud. I don't believe his wife became bitter when they split....I just think her 'programming' worn off and she attempted to spill the beans!

He's been caught out many times and gullible idiots then swallow explanations about people trying to discredit him.

Measuring the extent to which those gullible idiots will swallow the covering lies form part of the long-term experiment being run.

Yep! A great way to measure human gullibility over a period of years involving many absurdities.

Bottom line: there's nothing positive in any of this. It's all intended to manipulate and deceive.

The Bill Hicks line couldn't be more aptly applied than here: It's a piece of shit. Walk away.

I agree.....and that's why I walked away! :)

[trev1]

A lot of his photos are proven fakes.

Yes but not all

If you or the last poster have taken the time to actually READ any of
my posts you will see that I acknowledge some of it may be fake....

Yet I bring up a number of parts of the case that I cant explain yet you
just ignore it and dont make any effort to explain????

the whole thing is a massive psy-op/mindfuck/experiment
For what purpose please enlighten me !

there's nothing positive in any of this. It's all intended to manipulate and deceive
Thats just your opinion. Im entitled not to agree ! :)

[trev1]

gullible idiots then swallow explanations

You should have respect for people that have a different opinion than you -
Im suprised that someone would say that on a David Icke forum :p


So it seems highly likely to me Meier and his neighbours, followers etc DID actually see and hear real craft......just maybe not Pleiadian. I do believe at some point in is life, Meier may have seen REAL UFO's and this would make him a great subject for a major psyops experiment in human gullibility.

This is just a guess on your part? Im actually interested in your theroy.... please exaplin why the experiments
and by who and for what purpose?

[limelady]

limelady
So it seems highly likely to me Meier and his neighbours, followers etc DID actually see and hear real craft......just maybe not Pleiadian. I do believe at some point in is life, Meier may have seen REAL UFO's and this would make him a great subject for a major psyops experiment in human gullibility.

This is just a guess on your part? Im actually interested in your theroy.... please exaplin why the experiments
and by who and for what purpose?

No not a guess, its an opinion I have formed after many years of looking into this case, black projects, and 'disclosure' information. Each of us are free to do our own research and offer different opinions...I am merely just adding my opinion on this case in the same manner you and other contributors are doing. You are not obliged to agree with me. :)

[trev1]

No not a guess, its an opinion I have formed after many years of looking into this case, black projects, and 'disclosure' information. Each of us are free to do our own research and offer different opinions...I am merely just adding my opinion on this case in the same manner you and other contributors are doing. You are not obliged to agree with me. :)

Fair enough :) Hello though and please to meet you!

[limelady]

Fair enough :) Hello though and please to meet you!

Howdy-doody trev.....I hope you enjoy the DI forum. :)

[kasalt]

His wife later came out and said he was a fraud. I don't believe his wife became bitter when they split....I just think her 'programming' worn off and she attempted to spill the beans!

At about 3 minutes into this video, Popi Meier explains how she came to realize that her husband was committing fraud:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j7BQcnqZFM

[branjo]

Then again with FIGU owning the rights to the Meier information, they could have easily said to the wife, no more money for you, because ex wives never say anything derogatory about their ex husbands....lol.

Now I am all for keeping an open mind, and I would rather know the truth too, but playing devils advocate for a second here. For this old guy to establish these "special effects" given the time period we are talking about when Hollywood was having a hard time doing it with a million dollar budget. How was he able to fool people for so long?

The one with the saucer floating around the tree, the video zooms in before you get to work out were the pivot point would be for the pendulum effect, it would need to be well within frame. Now if you got yourself a big fishing pole and dangled something 8 feet away from the camera like the debunker guy said, could you make it go around the "tiny" tree like that, in the open air with the wind blowing, with one arm? Plus a miniature tree wouldn't bend so easily with the wind, I had a few bonsai's a few years ago and they are rigid as heck, and if the wind was blowing the tree then that would make it way harder to control the "model" saucer.

That video was pure Ad hominem, comparing him to the guy who got everyone one to wear a new pair of nikeys and drink the kool aid was a stretch to say the absolute least. Showing the atomic bomb going off and end of the world predictions. Most people in this forum believe the world is going to change for the worst too. I mean its either pure luck that we haven't had a nuclear war already, maybe they are predictions of futures that could have happened, who knows.

There is a a lot of Meier stuff that makes me go "hmmm", I won't lie, but this was a pathetic attempt at debunking. If someone wants to do it right then do it with the exact tools of the time in the exact same environment and reproduce the results exactly or nothing has been proved at all.

Bottom line is, either he was filming real flying saucers piloted by real ET's, or he was one of the worlds best special effects men, cause I reckon that would have been pretty freaking hard to do those videos unless you were trained very well in photography.

lol I mean the guy saying "look if we rewind the video back we can see it looks like it oscillates, which could be someone pulling on a wire".
If I was there I would have just said "Why, are anti gravity craft not supposed to do that?, could you show me a real flying saucer not doing that for comparison please"...lol.

I dunno I still get a kick out of seeing the videos and the theories fly around like a food fight. To be honest I still can't nail down a definite opinion either way. :rolleyes: I just like the old guy, I don't know what it is.

[majorion]

Measuring the extent to which those gullible idiots will swallow the covering lies form part of the long-term experiment being run./I]

Hello size_of_light,

You could be right, it could all be the work of those manipulative groups that somehow managed to infiltrate Ufology and have helped Meier in the effort to deceive everyone. But how feasible is that? Why is it that Meier was a target of over 15 assassination attempts if this were true? And what exactly would those manipulative parties try to convince us with the Meier case? That some guy encountered a human looking group and took a ride with them around the Solar System? - Don't get me wrong, you absolutely could be right. But there are still some unanswered questions.

Why is it that we have groups like IIG/West trying so hard to debunk Meier? It doesn't make sense. You'd think if the guy was just a plain hoaxer nobody would really bother. But too many have bothered, quite incessantly.

Best,
M

[vienna]

You taking thee higher 'i know it all ground' is soo annoying!

Its NOT irrefutable proof of fruad ..... please explain to me:

ONE
Please explain how hundreds of his neighbours and friends seen lights in
the sky ..... was he a magician too? some man for a one armed man..
David Copperfield of the 70s

TWO
His contact notes and predictions and prophecies - hy have a lot of them
come true (some very specific) and the contact notes DONT have any
contradictions. He must have been Charles Dickens too right?

THREE
The sound recordings -
1. How did he create those recordings using a simple cassette deck?

2. How can it be explained how several other witnessed heard the sound?

3. How is there a documented account from Wendelle Stevens that after
20 mins police arrived on the scene. They had gotten complaints from
neighbours about the noise 7 miles away.

4. The sound engineers that originally analysed the tapes found them very
strange and one even drew a drawing of what he thought was making it
which turned out very similar to one of the UFOs photographed. These
experts were selected by Wendelle Stevens, Britt and Lee Elders who
still stand by the results of the analysis.

5. If it is a hoax im still waiting for someone to tell me 'WHAT' the sounds
are and 'HOW' he created them.

FOUR
The photos of the UFOS. Its been shown that the tree in
the picture exists:
http://www.theyfly.com/UFO_Mag_Article_files/image009.gif
And judging by the size of the tree they assessed the UFO to be 10-12ft
across. Now, if it is a model it a fairly big one and please explain how
a one armed man manufactured this...

FIVE
He passed LIE DETECTOR tests ... please see :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB1ARjj0wXw

SIX
Three people that initially investigated the case tried to catch him out a
number of times but failed. These people : Wendelle Stevens, Britt Elders and Lee Elders
to this day stand by the througohness og the investigation and the results they came too.
Infact all 3 claimed to have experienced some type of unexplained stuff when living with Billy..

I agree with most of what you said - I've become cynical about alot of stuff from the ringing cedars books to the organite movement but the sheer amount of collaborated information around this case including that UN envoy from Cambodia who backed him up makes it hard to dismiss it

one possibility is if Meier is genuine and is also Emmanual as he claims he wouldn't feel the need to fake the stuff , more likely it was planted to discredit him, there is clearly some powerful terrestrial agencies interested in him and they would take the low key approach to avoid attention

is there any indication Meier looked at these photos as they appear above and claimed them real?

or did someone switch them after he spoke about them, removing the genuine ones?

also as a side note I thought it interesting Meier mirrored BIll Coopers claim of secret US ships orbiting Mars

[fekdemasons]

http://www.super-hair.net/qs-0906.html

looks like she has changed - or has had plastic surgery

this is her singing - http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/michelledellafave-01.m3u


Ironic that the group became known as the golddiggers eh billy ?

[bluechip]

I'm getting here a little late and have not read all 12 pages of previous discussion. I hope this isn't redundant. Billy Meier's case is very similiar to a much older case of a man named George Adamski. His case is detailed in a book 'Inside the flying saucers'. As in the Meiers case, Adamski was sincere, but in my opinion was being 'played' by cosmic tricksters. Adamski explained in great detail encounters with beings from Venus. At the time of the books writing Venus was still a possibility for life. Adamski was given a great deal of info. either through voice or telepathicly by direct contact with human looking beings who gave him a tour of the solar system in their craft. His story, like Meiers was sincere and I feel both actually were giving their honest assessment, but may have been 'used' by the entitys. For what purpose these men were used I can't say.

[kasalt]

The one with the saucer floating around the tree, the video zooms in before you get to work out were the pivot point would be for the pendulum effect, it would need to be well within frame. Now if you got yourself a big fishing pole and dangled something 8 feet away from the camera like the debunker guy said, could you make it go around the "tiny" tree like that, in the open air with the wind blowing, with one arm? Plus a miniature tree wouldn't bend so easily with the wind, I had a few bonsai's a few years ago and they are rigid as heck, and if the wind was blowing the tree then that would make it way harder to control the "model" saucer.

Here's a quote taken from http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/misquotes_of_michael_horn.htmlMr. Bartholomaus followed up with Marc and told him that the owners of the farmhouse in the film have said that there never was a tree on their property. He also showed Marc the photos of what appears to be the same tree in different locations throughout Switzerland:
http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/Tree_Comparison-Left_Branch.jpg

[supertzar]

Here's a quote taken from http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/misquotes_of_michael_horn.htmlMr. Bartholomaus followed up with Marc and told him that the owners of the farmhouse in the film have said that there never was a tree on their property. He also showed Marc the photos of what appears to be the same tree in different locations throughout Switzerland:


Pretty good evidence of fakery. I like the 'one arm' argument. "How could he fake those shots with only one arm?"

[kasalt]

Pretty good evidence of fakery. I like the 'one arm' argument. "How could he fake those shots with only one arm?"

Would it be too implausible to suggest that he has assistants?

[fekdemasons]

Pretty good evidence of fakery. I like the 'one arm' argument. "How could he fake those shots with only one arm?"

You can frisbee a hubcap with the camera round your kneck ?

[supertzar]

Would it be too implausible to suggest that he has assistants?

That is what I was getting at. I should have added the :rolleyes: when I said I like the one arm argument.

[limelady]

At about 3 minutes into this video, Popi Meier explains how she came to realize that her husband was committing fraud:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j7BQcnqZFM

Thanks for posting that kasalt. :)

A woman scorned?

I personally don't think so. I remember reading an interview transcript where after the split Popi had been questioned about her life with Billy, and apparently one day she just decided she'd had enough of the charade, and just 'packed up the yak' and left.

Can't have been easy for her raising a family through all this, and she likely got tired of all the hoo-haa going on in her home and around her every day of their marriage. Billy spend almost every minute of his day living and breathing this stuff.......or as some have speculated, writing his contact notes with one hand on his typewriter, and setting up his dodgy photos.

I personally agree with an earlier poster who made the suggestion that its likely Billy had assistance with some of this stuff. He certainly had a small group of very keen supporters around him most of the time, and its not beyond the realms of possibility that one of them was his 'right hand man' .....pun intended. ;)

[trev1]

At about 3 minutes into this video, Popi Meier explains how she came to realize that her husband was committing fraud:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j7BQcnqZFM

YOu still though refuse to answer all the things I cannot explain.. ive
listed them twice now please no MORE VIDEOS please exaplin

[trev1]

personally i dont think the 3 trees in the pics are the same one.
they have all different characteristics. The one on the left is more rounded
at the top

[kasalt]

personally i dont think the 3 trees in the pics are the same one.
they have all different characteristics. The one on the left is more rounded
at the top

They may not be the same. However, you have already admitted that the "wedding cake" UFO is a fake, so what is your point?

[trev1]

They may not be the same. However, you have already admitted that the "wedding cake" UFO is a fake, so what is your point?


As ive said many times if you read my posts -

1. THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN FAKED OR TAMPERED WITH
(wedding cake, laser run, dinosaurs, etc)

2. THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE THAT I CANNOT EXPLAIN AWAY
(not gonna list here ive listed 2-3 times already)

Do you now get my point ??? NOw ive asked you a few times already - can you
explain them for me?

My point also is that this case does not have to be true or not true. black or white.
Couldnt some of it be true and some of it be faked?

[majorion]

Couldnt some of it be true and some of it be faked?

Hi trev1,

I once met an individual who is a Freemason, and he is also an excellent UFO researcher who has traveled practically everywhere in the world in search of answers. He even went on a tour with Erich Von Daniken. He is a very respectful person and I learned so much from him. One of those treasure troves of information you encounter so rarely.

When it came to Billy Meier, I asked him, was Billy Meier for real? His answer was maybe. Then he elaborated that Meier's core story were probably true but he imagined that he built a whole story later on and fabricated evidence to support his position.

Now mind you, this individual I know is no "true believer" by any measure. He's actually quite a stern skeptic so his stance really surprised me, especially because his colleagues were so heavily opposed to Meier as well.

Personally, I think its not really a matter of whether this case is true not, its a matter of whether this case is credible enough to be presented to non-ufologists. Fact is its not unfortunately. Who's gonna buy into some story about beamships, time travel, laser guns, dinosaurs, "asketh", etc..? The average person who has no interest in UFOs would just get put off.

Best,
M

[kasalt]

Couldnt some of it be true and some of it be faked?

There is an old saying that goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I haven't seen any persuasive evidence that the Meier case is true, but there is plenty of proof of fraud.

[trev1]

There is an old saying that goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I haven't seen any persuasive evidence that the Meier case is true, but there is plenty of proof of fraud.


But what about the stuff I cant explain - you still havent explained for me !

[azureangel]

There is an old saying that goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I haven't seen any persuasive evidence that the Meier case is true, but there is plenty of proof of fraud.

...your logic? Your avatar says it all. Have another hit...Love, angel

[kasalt]

...your common sense? Or the lack thereof.

And as for my avatar, I'd take Carl Sagan's advice (http://www.druglibrary.org/think/%7Ejnr/sagan.htm) over yours any day.

[jamesc]

Gulf Breeze Sightings. Anyone got any comments on this famous UFO case that involved Ed Walters in Florida.He produced a lot of UFO pictures at that time an these were put in his book, "The Gulf Breeze Sightings".Read it a few times but i am still on the fence on this one.



1987-Gulf Breeze, Florida. Of the many accounts of UFO sightings, photographs, and videos, the sensational reports that originated in Gulf Breeze, Florida are some of the most controversial. Gulf Breeze was a small city of approximately 6,000 at the time of the wave of sightings that began in the winter of 1987. News of UFO photos par excellence spread rapidly and far, becoming a world-wide sensation, and the subject of a plethora of newspaper and magazine articles, and television talk and feature programs...continued in next clip.


http://www.ufocasebook.com/gbonesmall.jpg



http://www.ufocasebook.com/bestufopictures4.html

[sloughi]

can you tell me a title of this book and dose it exsist in pdf?The name of the book is:

MESSAGE FROM THE PLEIADES

You can order it below but it's quite expensive.

http://www.amazon.com/Message-Pleiades-Contact-Notes-Eduard/dp/B0013IQLYM

[chica314]

I approached the Billy Meier case as a skeptic at first, but after careful investigation I truly believe he is a genuine contactee.

First, please read this recent article about image analysis that was just performed on his photographs in the US: http://www.allnewsweb.com/page9399895.php

Infrared rays were shown to be emanating from the craft, and an x-ray version of several of the photographs revealed the shading patterns of two "faces." How the hell do you hide extraterrestrial faces in a photograph so that you can only find them by taking an x-ray version of the picture?

Second, Billy has predicted multiple events that have been relayed to him by the Pleiadians, such as earthquakes, that have happened very close to the date. There is a list of predictions that are just coming out now.

Example: Meier also documented the fact that Jupiter had rings; described the chemical composition of the planet's surface, the coloration of it's moons, Io's smooth surface and Europa being encrusted in ice. But far more amazingly, Meier accurately described both the composition and the source of Jupiter's rings 20 years before scientists from Cornell announced their findings, in 1998!

And finally, you must understand that many, if not the majority, of Billy's photos have been tampered with to silence him. There ARE originals out there, specifically the ones in his photo journal book. But he has had many people try to cash in on his photos by taking the originals and replacing them with "hoax" pictures. One example is the alleged photograph of Semjase, which was a photograph of an actress from the 1970s. The pictures are not the only evidence that Billy is a true contactee though; just look at the metal samples that he received from the pleiadians, which were shown to be created via COLD FUSION and did not match up to any known element or compound on this planet.

Billy has revealed that "Men In Black" have silenced him; he has been the victim of 21 assassination attempts; and a military post has been established near his home for observation. Why would Billy literally continue to risk his life releasing predictions unless it were actually true and he actually needed to relay this information to the human race?

Re-enactment photos that use models in order to compare to Billy's photos were found to contain UFOs in the distance in those pictures. You can look it up. Some believe that the ETs knew that others would try to discredit him and tried to sabotage their attempts by posing their crafts in the "fake model" pictures.

Additionally, there have been 86+ witnesses who have attested to the Billy Meier contact events, including seeing Pleiadians; seeing Billy suddenly disappear/reappear; eye witness accounts of the crafts; and viewing the "disappearing tree" demonstration.

[jamesc]

I approached the Billy Meier case as a skeptic at first, but after careful investigation I truly believe he is a genuine contactee.

First, please read this recent article about image analysis that was just performed on his photographs in the US: http://www.allnewsweb.com/page9399895.php

Infrared rays were shown to be emanating from the craft, and an x-ray version of several of the photographs revealed the shading patterns of two "faces." How the hell do you hide extraterrestrial faces in a photograph so that you can only find them by taking an x-ray version of the picture?

Second, Billy has predicted multiple events that have been relayed to him by the Pleiadians, such as earthquakes, that have happened very close to the date. There is a list of predictions that are just coming out now.



And finally, you must understand that many, if not the majority, of Billy's photos have been tampered with to silence him. There ARE originals out there, specifically the ones in his photo journal book. But he has had many people try to cash in on his photos by taking the originals and replacing them with "hoax" pictures. One example is the alleged photograph of Semjase, which was a photograph of an actress from the 1970s. The pictures are not the only evidence that Billy is a true contactee though; just look at the metal samples that he received from the pleiadians, which were shown to be created via COLD FUSION and did not match up to any known element or compound on this planet.

Billy has revealed that "Men In Black" have silenced him; he has been the victim of 21 assassination attempts; and a military post has been established near his home for observation. Why would Billy literally continue to risk his life releasing predictions unless it were actually true and he actually needed to relay this information to the human race?

Re-enactment photos that use models in order to compare to Billy's photos were found to contain UFOs in the distance in those pictures. You can look it up. Some believe that the ETs knew that others would try to discredit him and tried to sabotage their attempts by posing their crafts in the "fake model" pictures.

Additionally, there have been 86+ witnesses who have attested to the Billy Meier contact events, including seeing Pleiadians; seeing Billy suddenly disappear/reappear; eye witness accounts of the crafts; and viewing the "disappearing tree" demonstration.



Well my friend good on you for persevering and taking the time and trouble to dig deeper.If the debunkers can stop people digging deeper with attempts at character assassination attempts and forging deliberate hoaxed remakes of his pictures then they have won.You are right that this smear campaign against him has been orchestrated very professionally and with vicious candour as well.

There is always some things that will remain that signal high strangeness in any given high profile cases that will either be difficult to debunk by the sceptics or will be ignored or filed way as not relevant.

Very interesting findings on these images after the image analysis of them.Seems that these findings are being ignored and labelled irrelevant.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[philidor]

The guy was irrefutably proven to be a hoaxer.

[thirdwave]

I approached the Billy Meier case as a skeptic at first, but after careful investigation I truly believe he is a genuine contactee.

First, please read this recent article about image analysis that was just performed on his photographs in the US: http://www.allnewsweb.com/page9399895.php

Infrared rays were shown to be emanating from the craft, and an x-ray version of several of the photographs revealed the shading patterns of two "faces." How the hell do you hide extraterrestrial faces in a photograph so that you can only find them by taking an x-ray version of the picture?

Second, Billy has predicted multiple events that have been relayed to him by the Pleiadians, such as earthquakes, that have happened very close to the date. There is a list of predictions that are just coming out now.



And finally, you must understand that many, if not the majority, of Billy's photos have been tampered with to silence him. There ARE originals out there, specifically the ones in his photo journal book. But he has had many people try to cash in on his photos by taking the originals and replacing them with "hoax" pictures. One example is the alleged photograph of Semjase, which was a photograph of an actress from the 1970s. The pictures are not the only evidence that Billy is a true contactee though; just look at the metal samples that he received from the pleiadians, which were shown to be created via COLD FUSION and did not match up to any known element or compound on this planet.

Billy has revealed that "Men In Black" have silenced him; he has been the victim of 21 assassination attempts; and a military post has been established near his home for observation. Why would Billy literally continue to risk his life releasing predictions unless it were actually true and he actually needed to relay this information to the human race?

Re-enactment photos that use models in order to compare to Billy's photos were found to contain UFOs in the distance in those pictures. You can look it up. Some believe that the ETs knew that others would try to discredit him and tried to sabotage their attempts by posing their crafts in the "fake model" pictures.

Additionally, there have been 86+ witnesses who have attested to the Billy Meier contact events, including seeing Pleiadians; seeing Billy suddenly disappear/reappear; eye witness accounts of the crafts; and viewing the "disappearing tree" demonstration.



do you think this guy is for real?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsp6lF4SCKI

[nicholaq]

Im really not sure about this Billy Meier case. Some of the photos look a bit snide to me.:confused:

[noewhan]

It is intriguing. I'm still unsure too...
George Green claims to meet them or talk to them fairly often.
George says, "if you want to apart of the 'ground crew', you say in your mind:

I am a human becoming help me become."

There's another site which claims Billy hoaxed the whole thing and his wife admitted it... But as said before there's those who can silence you a few ways, without committing a murder.

[raffles]

do you think this guy is for real?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsp6lF4SCKI

Great find TW,
Very interesting videos, i really don't no what to make of the guy, some of the video/pictures look real dodgy the ones taken by the trees for example.
But yet hes got amazing pictures from the apollo/soyuez dock-up and pictures of mars and jupiter.
And how the hell did he no that jupiter had rings long before nasa :confused:

I don't think we will ever no for sure the truth on this one.

[elton]

I'd like to see his "dissapearing tree trick". ffs.

[thirdwave]

Great find TW,
Very interesting videos, i really don't no what to make of the guy, some of the video/pictures look real dodgy the ones taken by the trees for example.
But yet hes got amazing pictures from the apollo/soyuez dock-up and pictures of mars and jupiter.
And how the hell did he no that jupiter had rings long before nasa :confused:

I don't think we will ever no for sure the truth on this one.

for me this video is interesting, because there were some of Meiers pics exposed as being copies from books and so on...

on this video this guy claims to have video footage filming through Billys photo album with Billy there...

There for if this guy is for real, then it proves that Meier is a fraud, and was showing him bogus pics...

but this guy could simply be someone attacking his works and deliberately presented the fake pics, to make it easy to debunk Billy.

for me these videos prove that either Billy or this guy are lying.

[jamesc]

Example: Meier also documented the fact that Jupiter had rings; described the chemical composition of the planet's surface, the coloration of it's moons, Io's smooth surface and Europa being encrusted in ice. But far more amazingly, Meier accurately described both the composition and the source of Jupiter's rings 20 years before scientists from Cornell announced their findings, in 1998!

If the above is true then i would like to see how he could have known this, wild guess:rolleyes:, got lucky:rolleyes:, or he was informed by ubkown intelligences.:cool:

[jamesc]

I'd like to see his "dissapearing tree trick". ffs.

Its the same aliens that have maid and are responsible for EVERY SINGLE crop circle that has every appeared , they cloaked the tree just for a piss take and a laugh.;):cool:

[kasalt]

Example: Meier also documented the fact that Jupiter had rings...But far more amazingly, Meier accurately described both the composition and the source of Jupiter's rings 20 years before scientists from Cornell announced their findings, in 1998!

If the above is true then i would like to see how he could have known this, wild guess:rolleyes:, got lucky:rolleyes:, or he was informed by ubkown intelligences.:cool:

"...all of the information about Jupiter that appears in Billy Meier's 115th Contact was published in widely-available magazines and newspapers in 1979, most of it in early March. More recent scientific findings show that some of that information was wrong."

Source: http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/ike42report.htm#05section1

[jamesc]

"...all of the information about Jupiter that appears in Billy Meier's 115th Contact was published in widely-available magazines and newspapers in 1979, most of it in early March. More recent scientific findings show that some of that information was wrong."

Source: http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/ike42report.htm#05section1




UFO Skeptics Throw in the Towel - How Did Meier Beat NASA by 32 Years?

The subject of UFOs is no longer just fodder for the tabloids, as several recent Larry King TV shows indicate. Though primarily dominated by discussions about sightings of lights in the sky, and perennial dead-end conjecture about Roswell, the recent shows have engaged viewers everywhere.

They also coincide with increased worldwide attention being once again focused on the highly controversial Billy Meier UFO contacts in Switzerland, due to the release of the new film on the case, 'The Silent Revolution of Truth' (http://www.theyfly.com), and the newest scientific corroboration for Meier's prophetic information.

While NASA's announcement on July 31, regarding proof of the discovery of water on Mars, excited scientists, Meier had already been informed about water on the red planet - on July 8, 1976. (English language translations of this information, available since 1986, were also published by Lt. Col. Wendelle Stevens, USAF Ret., in 1993, in Volume 3 of Message from the Pleiades. The four-book series, now out of print, collector's items, are available as ebooks http://theyfly.com/products/products.htm).

Skeptics Defeated:
Renewed international interest in Meier's claims of personal contacts with extraterrestrial humans, for over 66 years, also coincides with the total collapse of the skeptical challenges. Chief among those who have long characterized Meier's stunning photographic, film and video evidence as merely 'an easily duplicated hoax done with models', has been the international professional skeptics organizations CFI-West and IIG, affiliated with skeptical debunker James Randi.;)

Shortly after the release of 'The Silent Revolution of Truth' the lead case investigator for IIG, Derek Bartholomaus, was forced to retract his own claims (included in the Special Features section of the film) that Meier used model trees:rolleyes: and UFOs to help hoax his clear, daytime UFO photos, films and video from the mid-1970s .

(http://theyfly.com/newsflash91/Top_Skeptic_Fixed.htm). Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG were completely unable to provide even one photograph as evidence of any model tree or model UFO to support their premise, despite having had seven years to do so.

The skeptics had stubbornly pinned all their hopes on the model theory, as no personal computers, PhotoShop, digital effects, etc. were available to anyone, let alone a Swiss farmer, at the time that Meier presented his evidence.:cool:

Bartholomaus and the skeptics took another devastating blow when Uncharted Territory, the Academy Award-winning special effects company (for Independence Day) rebuffed his request for support for his model theories, instead clearly describing one of Meier's UFO films as 'hard to achieve, very hard, probably even impossible to fake this kind of shot.' :eek:(http://theyfly.com/newsflash92/Academy_%20Award_Fx.htm)

Meier's U.S. representative, Michael Horn then took the fight back to Bartholomaus, challenging him to prove his claim that Meier had used models to hoax a highly dramatic film segment (http://www.tjresearch.info/bachtel.htm). Horn, who's researched the case for 30 years, said that there were only two possibilities for use of a model and that he was prepared to unequivocally demolish either argument.

Bartholomaus, who's been the most vocal of the skeptical protagonists for some time, failed to answer the bell for the final round, admitting that he simply wasn't prepared to substantiate his own claims. :rolleyes:Then, like a good corner man trying to protect his fighter from further battering, James Randi's official spokesperson, Jeff Wagg, threw in the towel for the organization, surprisingly supporting Horn's position, saying, 'If there's not enough evidence to support the model claim, the model claim is suspect.':cool:

With any hoaxing by special effects or models having been eliminated - by the skeptics themselves - the skeptical challenge was over.

Lie Detection:
In light of these stunning, unexpected developments, the question of Meier's truthfulness takes on even more importance. And it's also explored, in a unique way, in 'The Silent Revolution of Truth'. Horn said, 'We took the unusual step of bringing in an expert consultant to the U.S. Army Special Forces, a specialist in reading body language - which can mean life or death to a soldier.

We filmed him as he watched Meier speak on film, for the first time with the sound off, just in case he could understand Meier's Swiss-German dialect, which he couldn't. We had him evaluate Meier and the retired UN diplomat, who also spoke about seeing the UFOs, and one of the Plejaren extraterrestrials, in India years ago. He gave them both a 'thumbs up'.

'Anyone who's been skeptical of Meier's truthfulness, and the huge implications of all this, should learn more about how science - as well as the U.S. Army - is relying on human 'lie detectors'.:cool:



Your article is very interesting on the debunking of Meiers information he claimed he got from progressive contacts and the dates he gave when these contacts happened and the information he claimed to have received.There is no mention of these contacts or dates in my above article but we all know how James Randi the hater of anything paranormal and king sceptic works.

Still your article does through up important facts and possibilities that Meiers claims about his information he received from repeated contacts could have been copied from media sources but the questions of his UFO photos and the possibility them of just being hoaxed models seems to be a bit harder to confirm.

[kasalt]

UFO Skeptics Throw in the Towel - How Did Meier Beat NASA by 32 Years?
{...}
While NASA's announcement on July 31, regarding proof of the discovery of water on Mars, excited scientists, Meier had already been informed about water on the red planet - on July 8, 1976.

"Giovanni Schiaparelli first discussed martian channels/canals in 1877 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals), and the Martian Polar Ice Caps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_on_Mars) have been observed since the 1700s, so Meier discussing there being water on Mars in the 1970s is no big deal no matter how many press releases Michael Horn decides to put out. As far as the other astronomical 'predictions' of Meier, well, those have already been addressed in this report (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/ike42report.htm)."

Source: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread380900/pg3

[jamesc]

"Giovanni Schiaparelli first discussed martian channels/canals in 1877 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals), and the Martian Polar Ice Caps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_on_Mars) have been observed since the 1700s, so Meier discussing there being water on Mars in the 1970s is no big deal no matter how many press releases Michael Horn decides to put out. As far as the other astronomical 'predictions' of Meier, well, those have already been addressed in this report (http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/ike42report.htm)."

Source: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread380900/pg3


Yes i agree about his predictions but the model hoax explanations from Bartholomaus, who's been the most vocal of the skeptical protagonists for some time is another different ball game.:cool:

[romas]

The problem is B.Meyer is not speaking himself, how can some one else represent him is beyond my comprehension. I personally am convinced something really happened to mr. Meyer, for this you have to watch old Vendel Stevens videos, when they actually went there and filmed contactee himself.

If one armed farmer could pull that kind of hoax off, then I still want to hear what he has to say, even when it's likely some one was backing him up.

I find it an amusing paradox, aliens would choose a hermit to spread their message. I undirstand he could have exeptional qualities, like lack of ego, but it also stopped him from speaking publicly...

[romas]

The guy was irrefutably proven to be a hoaxer.



There really is no proof either way. The debunkers are actually much goofier than supposed metal and sound sample "proof" filmed by Wendel Stevens and co.

[kasalt]

please read this recent article about image analysis that was just performed on his photographs in the US: http://www.allnewsweb.com/page9399895.php

Here's some more image analysis:

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4247/piece7we.jpg

You can see that one of the pins has apparently fallen on top of the middle section of the "UFO". Here is a close up:

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd345/easynoww/WCUFO_Pin-1.jpg

Raw materials used to build the "wedding cake UFO":

http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/ats44563_cakeparts.jpg

Christmas tree ornaments:

http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/silver_ornaments.jpg

Here is one of the ornaments with the hanging cap removed:

http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/silver_ornament_cap_off.jpg

A perfect match:

http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/images/wedship3-CU+ornament.jpg

Source: http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/wedding_cake_ufo_deconstruction.html

[kasalt]

There's another site which claims Billy hoaxed the whole thing and his wife admitted it...

Here's a link to that video:

http://www.youtube.com/v/3j7BQcnqZFM

[romas]

Here's some more image analysis:

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4247/piece7we.jpg

[/URL]





LoL quality fo sho, not to mention they didn't film the ground, because that would mess up the FOV trick that makes it look much bigger than it really is.

[jamesc]

So i take it the below information and facts are hoaxed too, the person who was the photo analyst sounds creditable and is his findings not relevant.Seems that these where tested and found to be genuine. Is the below evidence on this object possibly being real to be entertained or is the information below just horse shit.




Scientific analysis suggests Billy Meier UFO photos may be genuine

Ronald Nussbeck info@allnewsweb.com

The UFO photographs surveyed were taken on March 26, 1981 and sometime in 1984 by Billy Meier in Switzerland. This survey has been authorized by Michael Horn, Billy Meier's United States associate to determine the authenticity of these photographs. The survey conducted between October 22, 2009 and November 6, 2009 included 100 hours of laboratory time and over 100 photographic enhancements using APEP (Advanced Photographic Extraction Process) regarded by many as one of the world's leading imaging process. The UFO photographs below will have a caption with our opinion accompanied by Scientific evidence leading to conclusions drawn from our 25 years of combined UFO photographic expertise.

An original copy of the Billy Meier Photograph taken March 26, 1981 is seen below. The photography has not been retouched or manipulated in any detectable way and the conclusion of the sciencific team is that it is authentic in every aspect. The craft measures approximately 48 feet in diameter and is 25 feet tall, it's composition is unknown and it is in no way is suspended by any device detectable. There is no pixel manipulation or overlay created by any artificial means, the craft is not supported by any means known.




http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/fdbe5e5f4e72b1abbe7e42fe66bb5534.jpeg




The photograph below is an X-Ray of the original Billy Meier photograph from 1981 showing the UFO (which will be referred to as the craft throughout this document,) next to a tree while hovering over a Van just outside of Billy Meier's home. The X-Ray photographic process allows details not otherwise able to be seen to become visible: giving insight to contrast. The red arrows on the top of the craft point to windows that have a translucent material that permits light to travel beyond their surface. The red arrows on the bottom of the craft also point to a translucent area allowing light to travel into the craft and could be considered viewing areas or an observation area on the lower portion of the craft.

While APEP was able to look inside several windows this was not part of this survey, we will say that the craft windows show the inside of what you might expect to find in an Extraterrestrial space craft. The creators of APEP claim capacity to capture images to the microscopic level and employ patented light/dark filters that allow extraction of images beyond current technology used in conventional extraction processes. They have also imaged the entire area around the craft including the van, trees, buildings, hillside, and objects not visible to the naked eye or light magnification. This information will only be released if requested by Michael Horn or Billy Meier and remains secret at this time. There are three green arrows pointing to a high energy wave disbursement, it was picked up during the X-Ray imaging process which we will discuss in more detail below.

http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/bf56c3fbf3203acefc65d78502510637.jpeg







The side by side photographs below show the comparison of the original photograph and a X-Ray/Infrared combination image. The photograph on the right side shows what is believed to be an electrical field surrounding the craft. The red arrows point in the direction the field is emitting high intensity electrical waves that are most intense under the craft while waves above the craft are negligible. Infrared energy is just one part of the electromagnetic spectrum that encompasses radiation in a thin region of visible light found in infrared, microwaves and radio waves, these are all related and differentiated in the length of their wave. All objects emit a certain amount of black body radiation as a function of their temperatures. In this case we see a field created around the craft created by an outside force that is causing a disturbance, this disturbance was duplicated many times over in our laboratory leading to our conclusion. APEP has imaged many vehicles, buildings, airplanes, UFO models and other object but could not duplicate the discharge surrounding the Billy Meier craft. In fact, the electrical discharge wave was repeatedly duplicated in the Billy Meier photography, this observable evidence was considered empirical evidence. It was also observed that the vehicle below the craft has been affected by the electrical waves causing the Van to tilt slightly to the right. It was noted that the hillside slopes slightly to the right but is exaggerated by the electrical wave field in our opinion.





http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/9270d1a033502dbe1abc3be54a6ce2ef.jpeg

The image below is the enlarged photograph of the electrical field generated around the craft showing a distinct disturbance. This Theory is based on what is believed to be an antigravity prolusion system stabilizing the craft. Although invisible to human eyes and most cameras, equipment used here can allegedly detect multiple spectrums of invisible light, heat, and radiation. APEP conducted many experiments and in every case found the field surrounding the craft distinct from any other object in the test survey.


http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/b6b17484108176b14ab19634bd0c2684.jpeg




Below is a Toy model photograph from 2008 of the Billy Meier craft in X-Ray, notice the lack of any electrical field generation or of translucent material on the craft. This is just one test performed to try and duplicate the electrical wave field that surrounds the 1981 Billy Meier X-Ray photograph. APEP also looked at the entire surface to determine if any similarities could be make to the Billy Meier 1981 photograph, there were none found. This is the first of many facts that suggest, in the teams estimation, that the Billy Meier photograph is authentic and unduplicated in a laboratory setting.



http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/92efc3e8274d562e146082cd3e7ad159.jpeg




The image below is the original Toy model photograph as taken by debunkers before X-Ray photography was applied.:D The distance to the Toy model is estimated at 5 feet, this photographic imaging was an attempt to give size to the Toy model but is considered child's play in professional photographic imaging

http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/0e12ebb6988d3d0a4f433eac08babd56.jpeg




The photograph below is a Toy model of Billy Meier's craft setting on top of a toy car photographed using X-Ray photography. Once again no electrical field generation or translucent materials appear. The APEP team felt that it was impossible to build a model that could contain the size and scope of the Billy Meier craft after careful examination.

http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/47248bee2b93100ceb94172a2ca705a2.jpeg







The image below is the original Toy model photograph before X-Ray imaging.




http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/89333efbc7415e337a601f21f6ef47fc.jpeg


The image below is an X-Ray image of the leading edge of the craft showing a pictograph image. Every UFO imaged by APEP over the last 5 years has had pictographs on the exterior, it is the opinion of APEP's creators after studying hundreds of UFO's that the first clue that a UFO photograph was faked is the omission of pictographs. These complex pictographs or Art work have very intricate details as will be seen in the photographs below, it is believed they are unduplicated by humans. It has been hypothesized that Extraterrestrial civilizations use pictographs to communicate who they are and where they are from. It is also thought that with such diverse life forms, languages would not pose a problem in communications using pictographs. An example that all can relate to is the Florida Gator's, this intercollegiate sports team can be recognized by there team logo (pictograph), located in Gainesville, Florida it is immediately identifiable at a glance.

http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/418679e393806fb42e97e17fb2c552f2.jpeg




The pictograph found on the leading edge of the craft is specific to this Alien Race, under light magnification there are additional pictographs embedded on the larger pictograph image. The Theory that pictographs tell a story is more compelling than ever, pictographs or Art are used by Colleges as Mascots, on Flags, and Helmets for Football players, just think of all the pictographs used by humans. Humans use pictographs in the form of logos for Corporation, Military Fighter Squadrons to name just a few, that tell you who they are and where they are from without saying a word, it only makes sense that Aliens use pictographs to tell their story. The fact that Billy Meier's photograph has this amazing pictograph on it's surface gives it validity. This image was duplicated under many different photographic processes and is certifiable in it's appearance on the craft. This is empirical evidence that is beyond the scope of denial, it is in fact embedded on the exterior. This is not an opinion and can be proven in the laboratory every time during scientific processes.

The enlarged photograph of the pictograph shows multiple faces and designs embodied on the image. If you look closely there seems to be two heads on the leading edge, in the up coming photographs of the second Billy Meier photograph taken in 1984 you see the same crocodile image. APEP examined the eye of the large Head and believe it is used for imaging objects, it maybe a camera of sorts.



PART 2 OF SURVEY
The second part of the survey deals with a photograph taken by Billy Meier in 1984, if you look in the upper left hand corner you will see 84 written in ink, this was said to have been taken from inside one of the UFO's while in flight by Billy Meier.
In the background you can see a UFO in the center of the photograph, this is of special interest as it is part of a much bigger story, one that may come to surprise the Worlds population but not Billy Meier. Billy's representative Michael Horn told me in a phone conversation that the Aliens monitor all communications on Earth, that the Aliens have special crafts that monitor all human activity. We have examined this issue and believe we have the "smoking gun" photographic evidence that could prove this to be true.

The photograph below is an X-Ray image of the two crafts as taken by Billy Meier from inside the Alien craft. The larger craft at the bottom has a pictograph on the leading edge and is similar to the pictograph in the first Billy Meier photograph. But, there is a slight difference in the fact that it looks like a crocodiles head and body. Special note, the green craft in the distance will be referred to as a Scout craft for the rest of this survey (special note, there are three different types of Alien crafts photographed in this survey). The red arrow points to the enhanced leading edge of the main craft in the 1984 Billy Meier photograph. The pictograph and has many similarities to the 1981 Billy Meier Pictograph with the most obvious the crocodile head. This leads to the conclusion that each craft has it's own designation or pictograph which identifies and distinguishes it from the others. In the 1981 photograph the same face is seen just below the Bulls head, this clearly shows the crafts are related to each other.

The first photograph in the black box shows one of the Shuttle craft up close. It is estimated to be about 20 feet in diameter. Billy Meier has stated some of the Alien crafts are pilot-less and are used for monitoring human activity. If you look closely just below the jaw of the Crocodile you will see a pink image as a dot, this is a Shuttle craft when magnification is used. This is of tremendous importance as this same craft or one identical to it is in the 2008 Toy model Debunkers photograph.

The combination photograph shows the leading edge of the main craft for the 1984 Billy Meier photograph with a smaller Shuttle craft just below the Jaw/snout of the pictograph we have called "The Crocodile". This same craft is of special interest as it will be seen in the 2008 Toy model Debunkers photograph.

The photograph below shows an enlarged image of the Shuttle at a distance. Keep this image of the Shuttle in mind as we attempt to prove the Theory that Aliens are monitoring the human population. The fact that the same Shuttle craft could be in the Billy Meier photograph from 1984 and in the 2008 Toy model Debunkers photograph, seems uncanny.

The photograph below was taken in 2008 by the same toy model builder seen in earlier photographs in this survey. The Toy model was to demonstrate how Billy Meier's UFO could be duplicated, instead the Aliens interjected themselves into the Debunkers photograph. What is so profound about this photograph is not the toy model, it in no way represents the reproduction of Billy Meier photograph except that it contains the same Shuttle craft. The Shuttle craft was found under high magnification and then easily imaged using X-Ray imaging. The UFO you will see is in fact the same Shuttle craft or one identical to it seen in the 1984 photograph by Billy Meier.

The image below is the first enlarged image of the Toy model produced by the Debunkers to prove it was possible for Billy Meier to make a Toy model and fake the photographs. The red arrow points to the Shuttle craft, it appears the Aliens were monitoring the activity of the Debunkers, the proof can be seen in the photographs below. This revelation will have a profound effect on the way humans understand how our actions are seen by the Aliens, likely every detail of our lives is monitored.

The photograph below is an enlarged photograph of the area just to the lower right of the tree, the Toy model replicating Billy Meier's UFO photograph. The Shuttle is either the same craft as seen in the 1984 photograph or an identical craft of which there may be many. The Aliens might have had prior knowledge that the people involved in trying to Debunk Billy Meier were making a Toy model and hanging it from this tree. Perhaps the Aliens posed for this photograph knowing at some point it would be discovered and vindicating Billy Meier to the world. The appearance of the Shuttle craft in the 2008 photo suggests several conclusions, all electronic communications are monitored by Aliens as stated by Billy Meier. The Billy Meier photographs should be considered real, based on the photographic evidence provided in this survey the photographic scientists concluded.

The photograph below is an X-Ray image of the Shuttle craft showing it is the same or an identical craft as seen in the 1984 Billy Meier photograph. Billy Meier's photographs are said to be part of his interaction with a race of Aliens who wish to help the human population, and that all communications by humans are monitored.

The photograph below is an enlargement of the Shuttle craft, its design is consistent with the design of the main craft or Mother ship in both the 1981 and 1984 Billy Meier photographs. The Shuttle craft is also producing an electrical field around itself as seen in the first photograph taken by Billy Meier in 1981 photograph. The photographic evidence seemed so overwhelming that it was conclusion of the scientific team that Billy Meier's photographs are real. Look closely at this 2008 Shuttle craft image and compare it to the 1984 Shuttle photograph below.


Billy Meier's 1984 UFO pictograph and Shuttle craft and the evidence provided gave the APEP team great confidence in saying that his photographs are likely to be real. After comparing the photograph above and the photograph below of the Shuttle craft their conclusion was that Aliens are monitoring electronic communications.What do you think?


Comment on this story: info@allnewsweb.com


http://www.allnewsweb.com/page9399895.php


IF THIS X-Ray imaging process is correct then we have something here, a possible way to sniff out the hoaxes from the genuine photos of UFOs.

[jamesc]

http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/1302f0abfe4178f8b08df0e9cf39748b.jpeg

The photograph below was taken in 2008 by the same toy model builder seen in earlier photographs in this survey. The Toy model was to demonstrate how Billy Meier's UFO could be duplicated, instead the Aliens interjected themselves into the Debunkers photograph. What is so profound about this photograph is not the toy model, it in no way represents the reproduction of Billy Meier photograph except that it contains the same Shuttle craft. The Shuttle craft was found under high magnification and then easily imaged using X-Ray imaging. The UFO you will see is in fact the same Shuttle craft or one identical to it seen in the 1984 photograph by Billy Meier.

http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/f8ed53ce597b7656948aa3e659044534.jpeg


The image below is the first enlarged image of the Toy model produced by the Debunkers to prove it was possible for Billy Meier to make a Toy model and fake the photographs. The red arrow points to the Shuttle craft, it appears the Aliens were monitoring the activity of the Debunkers, the proof can be seen in the photographs below. This revelation will have a profound effect on the way humans understand how our actions are seen by the Aliens, likely every detail of our lives is monitored.


http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/b21d2522e33e98d0341f290effb09312.jpeg


The photograph below is an enlarged photograph of the area just to the lower right of the tree, the Toy model replicating Billy Meier's UFO photograph. The Shuttle is either the same craft as seen in the 1984 photograph or an identical craft of which there may be many. The Aliens might have had prior knowledge that the people involved in trying to Debunk Billy Meier were making a Toy model and hanging it from this tree. Perhaps the Aliens posed for this photograph knowing at some point it would be discovered and vindicating Billy Meier to the world. The appearance of the Shuttle craft in the 2008 photo suggests several conclusions, all electronic communications are monitored by Aliens as stated by Billy Meier. The Billy Meier photographs should be considered real, based on the photographic evidence provided in this survey the photographic scientists concluded.

http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/4dd4c4806a0ca19e7b557c54e5961963.jpeg


The photograph below is an X-Ray image of the Shuttle craft showing it is the same or an identical craft as seen in the 1984 Billy Meier photograph. Billy Meier's photographs are said to be part of his interaction with a race of Aliens who wish to help the human population, and that all communications by humans are monitored.

http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/aa9418ebcedbc116d37e965bf320d656.jpeg



The photograph below is an enlargement of the Shuttle craft, its design is consistent with the design of the main craft or Mother ship in both the 1981 and 1984 Billy Meier photographs. The Shuttle craft is also producing an electrical field around itself as seen in the first photograph taken by Billy Meier in 1981 photograph. The photographic evidence seemed so overwhelming that it was conclusion of the scientific team that Billy Meier's photographs are real. Look closely at this 2008 Shuttle craft image and compare it to the 1984 Shuttle photograph below.



http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/3de8c5a3e125d2aa43e1ae5f5c4d1242.jpeg




http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/41665e331f0fa9192f4defc1b9ebe8a8.jpeg





http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/105216cf3b8968e8c64af3e1cee50fec.jpeg





http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/31db5bac0dc6efa3689fd31b4c644300.jpeg




http://www.allnewsweb.com/attachments/CropImages/6a02c9eb15f997639dd5ec04d41c06bf.jpeg




http://www.allnewsweb.com/page9399895.php

[kasalt]

So i take it the below information and facts are hoaxed too, the person who was the photo analyst sounds creditable and is his findings not relevant.Seems that these where tested and found to be genuine. Is the below evidence on this object possibly being real to be entertained or is the information below just horse shit.




Scientific analysis suggests Billy Meier UFO photos may be genuine

Ronald Nussbeck info@allnewsweb.com

The UFO photographs surveyed were taken on March 26, 1981 and sometime in 1984 by Billy Meier in Switzerland. This survey has been authorized by Michael Horn, Billy Meier's United States associate to determine the authenticity of these photographs. The survey conducted between October 22, 2009 and November 6, 2009 included 100 hours of laboratory time and over 100 photographic enhancements using APEP (Advanced Photographic Extraction Process) regarded by many as one of the world's leading imaging process. The UFO photographs below will have a caption with our opinion accompanied by Scientific evidence leading to conclusions drawn from our 25 years of combined UFO photographic expertise.

An original copy of the Billy Meier Photograph taken March 26, 1981 is seen below. The photography has not been retouched or manipulated in any detectable way and the conclusion of the sciencific team is that it is authentic in every aspect.

The first problem I have with the above claims is that we are not told who did this photographic analysis, or in which research laboratory it was performed. We are not given any names, either of individuals or of institutions, who performed this analysis. How do you know that any of their claims are authentic? There is no reason to believe any of it other than because "someone" (who?) told you it was true!

[jamesc]

The first problem I have with the above claims is that we are not told who did this photographic analysis, or in which research laboratory it was performed. We are not given any names, either of individuals or of institutions, who performed this analysis. How do you know that any of their claims are authentic? There is no reason to believe any of it other than because "someone" (who?) told you it was true!



No one has been able to reproduce them yet with the same technology he had at the time and one of the main skeptics has jumped ship and admitted they are real.:rolleyes:





"Shortly after the release of "The Silent Revolution of Truth" the lead case investigator for IIG, Derek Bartholomaus, was forced to retract his own claims (included in the Special Features section of the film) that Meier used model trees and UFOs to help hoax his clear, daytime UFO photos, films and video from the mid-1970s ( [link to theyfly.com] Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG were completely unable to provide even one photograph as evidence of any model tree or model UFO to support their premise, despite having had seven years to do so. :rolleyes:The skeptics had stubbornly pinned all their hopes on the model theory, as no personal computers, PhotoShop, digital effects, etc. were available to anyone, let alone a Swiss farmer, at the time that Meier presented his evidence."

"Bartholomaus and the skeptics took another devastating blow when Uncharted Territory, the Academy Award-winning special effects company (for Independence Day) rebuffed his request for support for his model theories, instead clearly describing one of Meier's UFO films as "hard to achieve, very hard, probably even impossible to fake this kind of shot."


The above 2 paragraphs are my main problems with this case.

No one has yet been able to re- produce these pictures the he took. Also we have this reality, Uncharted Territory, the Academy Award-winning special effects company (for Independence Day) rebuffed requests from Bartholomaus and the skeptics for support for his model theories, instead clearly describing one of Meier's UFO films as "hard to achieve, very hard, probably even impossible to fake this kind of shot.":eek:



Again we have this quote from Uncharted Territory ,
"hard to achieve, very hard, probably even impossible to fake this kind of shot.":eek:

Now when experts and experienced professional people like those involved with Uncharted Territory, the SPECIAL EFFECTS company are saying that its impossible to fake this kind off shot then when do people actually start to listen.Yes i see your point that no names where given of who done this scientific photo annalist and no labs where mentioned where this was done but APEP was reverted to as the main area of research here.Is there a reason for the lack off any references to the names ect who carried out these investigations , possibly two i think.


1. is that it was NOT carried out by anyone involved in any scientific APEP investigation and therefore casts serious doubts on the legitimacy of these photos and enhances the hoax reality.

2.It was carried out by APEP scientific personnel and in controlled scientific labs but they requested anonymity based on the nature of this case and for their protection or credibility.In short they agreed to do this investigation with the promise of them or the individuals involved to remain anonymous.

To me its just not as simple as you suggested the following, "There is no reason to believe any of it other than because "someone" (who?) told you it was true![/QUOTE]" Yes i would agree with what you said if it was not for the Uncharted Territory, the SPECIAL EFFECTS company saying what they said and for the possibility of the individuals involved with the APEP to request and remain anonymous.Also the fact that the following two realities cannot be over looked or treated as irrelevant,

1." as no personal computers, PhotoShop, digital effects, etc. were available to anyone, let alone a Swiss farmer, at the time that Meier presented his evidence."

2. "No one has been able to reproduce them yet with the same technology he had at the time and one of the main skeptics has jumped ship and admitted they are real."

To me anyway this case remains open FOR NOW.Just my views and i do respect yours.:cool:

[kasalt]

No one has been able to reproduce them yet with the same technology he had at the time and one of the main skeptics has jumped ship and admitted they are real.:rolleyes:


A main skeptic admitted they are "real"? According to whom?

"Bartholomaus and the skeptics took another devastating blow when Uncharted Territory, the Academy Award-winning special effects company (for Independence Day) rebuffed his request for support for his model theories, instead clearly describing one of Meier's UFO films as "hard to achieve, very hard, probably even impossible to fake this kind of shot."

The above 2 paragraphs are my main problems with this case.

No one has yet been able to re- produce these pictures the he took. Also we have this reality, Uncharted Territory, the Academy Award-winning special effects company (for Independence Day) rebuffed requests from Bartholomaus and the skeptics for support for his model theories, instead clearly describing one of Meier's UFO films as "hard to achieve, very hard, probably even impossible to fake this kind of shot.":eek:

I must remind you that award-winning Hollywood special effects artists said exactly the same thing about the "alien autopsy" footage in the mid-90s, which was later proven to be a hoax. The same applies here.

So much of the Billy Meier case has already been proven to be absolute fraud, and yet some are so desperate to "believe" that they will cling to the slightest shreds of the case that still remain. There is some serious psy-ops going on here...

[fekdemasons]

I have to be honest this is one thing that always manages to confuse me.. there have been times where I have been compleatly convinced he is a bullshitter....

other times I have felt he could be very genuine.

I just feel for all his mega contact with them, he does not really have enough conclusive evidence... for example why not a simple photograph with him standing next to the UFO with the ETEs?

why not a photo of him inside the craft with them?

he has an audio recording of the UFO... but why not simple a close up of the UFO with sound?

I just feel for someone who had such constant and blatant contact all his evidence is very distant... and its not like he has had any real benaficial info to pass along..

I only can state what I feel on this one.


It has to be this way , slowly slowly... ETs are well aware of our fragile mental states. If you rock up in a 30 mile diameter mothership and say , were here to help. What would happen. Mass delusion , panic , looting , rioting , people firing semi automatics at them.

They know full well the level of brainwashing that has been inflicted upon people. They (benevolent plaeidians) make contact in my opinion with those that they have kept an eye on (so to speak) and that in most cases are f a certain mind set.

But the contacts have to be on the low pro.

I have to say I read Billies book when I was about 14 I think , I bought it cause it had cool saucer photo's in it.

I read it and got really into it for a month or so then TBH I forgot about it for years , probably 10 or 15.

By today's standards the photos look a little cheesy. But I dont think a one armed guy could have faked some. Especially the distant one next to the tree.

[jamesc]

A main skeptic admitted they are "real"? According to whom?



I must remind you that award-winning Hollywood special effects artists said exactly the same thing about the "alien autopsy" footage in the mid-90s, which was later proven to be a hoax. The same applies here.

So much of the Billy Meier case has already been proven to be absolute fraud, and yet some are so desperate to "believe" that they will cling to the slightest shreds of the case that still remain. There is some serious psy-ops going on here...






When you say "slightest shreds of the case that still remain", are these facts below included in this,or is it that these facts of this case that are very hard to debunk are often labelled as irrelevant.:rolleyes:There is some serious selective scepticism going on in this case.Its either a open or shut case and ALL facts have to be taken into account too.


1"Shortly after the release of "The Silent Revolution of Truth" the lead case investigator for IIG, Derek Bartholomaus, was forced to retract his own claims (included in the Special Features section of the film) that Meier used model trees and UFOs to help hoax his clear, daytime UFO photos, films and video from the mid-1970s ( [link to theyfly.com] Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG were completely unable to provide even one photograph as evidence of any model tree or model UFO to support their premise, despite having had seven years to do so.:cool:


2 The skeptics had stubbornly pinned all their hopes on the model theory, as no personal computers, PhotoShop, digital effects, etc. were available to anyone, let alone a Swiss farmer, at the time that Meier presented his evidence." :rolleyes:


3." as no personal computers, PhotoShop, digital effects, etc. were available to anyone, let alone a Swiss farmer, at the time that Meier presented his evidence." :rolleyes:

4. "No one has been able to reproduce them yet with the same technology he had at the time and one of the main skeptics has jumped ship and admitted they are real.":rolleyes:(THIS SAYS SO, THIS LEADING SCEPTIC HAS ALL BUT ADMITTED BY HIS RETRACTION, NOTHING SHORT OFF HIM SAYING IT HIMSELF) ,"the lead case investigator for IIG, Derek Bartholomaus, was forced to retract his own claims (included in the Special Features section of the film) that Meier used model trees and UFOs to help hoax his clear, daytime UFO photos, films and video")

To me anyway this case remains open FOR NOW.Just my views and i do respect yours.:cool:

ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE TO SAY "DESPERATE TO BELIEVE", I WOULD SAY DESPERATE TO CONSIDER ALL THE FACTS AND EVIDENCE,("slightest shreds of the case that still remain", INCLUDED), BEFORE JUMPING TO ANY ABSOLUTE AND FINALE CONCLUSIONS , IF SOME EVIDENCE OR INFORMATION ,(EVEN SMALL), REMAIN HARD TO DISMISS THEN IS IT NOT BY THAT VIRTUE THAT THE GUN HERE IN THIS CASE DID HAVE SOME SMOKE AFTER ALL.:confused::cool:

[kasalt]

When you say "slightest shreds of the case that still remain", are these facts below included in this,or is it that these facts of this case that are very hard to debunk are often labelled as irrelevant.:rolleyes:There is some serious selective scepticism going on in this case.Its either a open or shut case and ALL facts have to be taken into account too.


1"Shortly after the release of "The Silent Revolution of Truth" the lead case investigator for IIG, Derek Bartholomaus, was forced to retract his own claims...Let us again state clearly for the record what has been stated previously on the record on multiple occasions.

No one from CFI-West, IIG, or JREF has ever retracted anything they have ever stated regarding the Billy Meier Case.
{...}
Sincerely,
Derek Bartholomaus
Independent Investigations Group
Source: http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/emails/20080826_Email_Response_From_Derek.pdf

[romas]

I only can state what I feel on this one.


It has to be this way , slowly slowly... ETs are well aware of our fragile mental states. If you rock up in a 30 mile diameter mothership and say , were here to help. What would happen. Mass delusion , panic , looting , rioting , people firing semi automatics at them.

They know full well the level of brainwashing that has been inflicted upon people. They (benevolent plaeidians) make contact in my opinion with those that they have kept an eye on (so to speak) and that in most cases are f a certain mind set.

But the contacts have to be on the low pro.

I have to say I read Billies book when I was about 14 I think , I bought it cause it had cool saucer photo's in it.

I read it and got really into it for a month or so then TBH I forgot about it for years , probably 10 or 15.

By today's standards the photos look a little cheesy. But I dont think a one armed guy could have faked some. Especially the distant one next to the tree.






I have had break from this forum for a bit, but I remember you're earlier posts were pretty skeptical of lots of things, you seem changed, after your event presumably? :P

[fekdemasons]

I have had break from this forum for a bit, but I remember you're earlier posts were pretty skeptical of lots of things, you seem changed, after your event presumably? :P


Nail and head

[romas]

I'm unfamiliar with this expression :(

[fekdemasons]

I'm unfamiliar with this expression :(

It means you are exactly correct.

As in , Hitting the nail squarely on the head ... (if you had a hammer and where attempting to nail something to a wall or door)

It was a compliment :)

[jamesc]

Let us again state clearly for the record what has been stated previously on the record on multiple occasions.

No one from CFI-West, IIG, or JREF has ever retracted anything they have ever stated regarding the Billy Meier Case.
{...}
Sincerely,
Derek Bartholomaus
Independent Investigations Group
Source: http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/emails/20080826_Email_Response_From_Derek.pdf



Lets us clearly state for the record the following FACTS ,


1. Why did Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG claim and accuse Meier of using model trees and UFOs to help hoax his clear, daytime UFO photos, films and video from the mid-1970s ( [link to theyfly.com] Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG were completely unable to provide even one photograph as evidence of any model tree or model UFO to support their premise, despite having had seven years to do so.:cool:


2.. The skeptics had stubbornly pinned all their hopes on the model theory, as no personal computers, PhotoShop, digital effects, etc. were available to anyone, let alone a Swiss farmer, at the time that Meier presented his evidence." :cool:

3.Why did Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG fail to provide even one photograph as evidence of any model tree or model UFO to support their premise, despite having had seven years to do so":rolleyes: WHY after seven years did they not admit they failed , THEIR SILENCE IS A SIGN OF ADMITTANCE , they may not have openly said they retract their model debunking attack but their silence is as good as.


On Aug 26, 2008, at 10:56 AM, Michael Horn wrote:
Dear Phil,
It's a bit of a shame that you've chickened out of the debate on the Billy Meier
UFO case...but maybe it's quite understandable.
After all, we now have retractions from Randi and Bartholomaus, CFI-West
canned Vaughn Rees because of his bungling, Michael Shermer tried to offer
the theory that some kind of elves were responsible for Meier's evidence, etc.

And Bartholomaus is completely non-responsive to my very polite offer for him
to substantiate his model theory in one of Meier's films. (I'm sure he'd be glad
to give you the details...and excuses.):rolleyes:


So I'll acknowledge you as also surrendering and joining the "I give up" camp,
however, please stay tuned as such a complete trouncing of the professional
skeptics is always worthy of more publicity, which I know you enjoy anyway.:cool:

[kasalt]

So I'll acknowledge you as also surrendering and joining the "I give up" camp,
however, please stay tuned as such a complete trouncing of the professional
skeptics is always worthy of more publicity, which I know you enjoy anyway.:cool:

Are you kidding?

How much of the Meier case do you admit is a hoax? 50%? Higher? Lower?

[jamesc]

Are you kidding?

How much of the Meier case do you admit is a hoax? 50%? Higher? Lower?



How much of the Meier case that contains smoking guns and failed attempts of debunking explanations like the ones below do you admit is NOT hoaxed? 50%? Higher? Lower?

What percentage from the below would be sufficient to justify this case unsolved or remain open??


1. Why did Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG claim and accuse Meier of using model trees and UFOs to help hoax his clear, daytime UFO photos, films and video from the mid-1970s ( [link to theyfly.com] Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG were completely unable to provide even one photograph as evidence of any model tree or model UFO to support their premise, despite having had seven years to do so.


2.. The skeptics had stubbornly pinned all their hopes on the model theory, as no personal computers, PhotoShop, digital effects, etc. were available to anyone, let alone a Swiss farmer, at the time that Meier presented his evidence."

3.Why did Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG fail to provide even one photograph as evidence of any model tree or model UFO to support their premise, despite having had seven years to do so" WHY after seven years did they not admit they failed , THEIR SILENCE IS A SIGN OF ADMITTANCE , they may not have openly said they retract their model debunking attack but their silence is as good as.


Selective scepticism is evident in this case , if there are facts and things that are not debunked or remain unanswered then is that not relevant and justifiable for this case to remain open.A smoking gun no matter how trivial or small can lead to a bigger can of worms and i for one would not rule any smoking gun out.:cool:

[kasalt]

How much of the Meier case that contains smoking guns and failed attempts of debunking explanations like the ones below do you admit is NOT hoaxed? 50%? Higher? Lower?

Lower. Much lower. At least 90% or more of Meier's claims have already been proven to be fraud. Look over this thread, so much proof of his fraud has already been posted.

[romas]

It means you are exactly correct.

As in , Hitting the nail squarely on the head ... (if you had a hammer and where attempting to nail something to a wall or door)

It was a compliment :)



Ok I got it :P

[fekdemasons]

Don't know if you've all seen this , I got this from ECETI today.

hmmm... strokes chin sucks pipe and leans on mantlepeice in thoughtfull contemplation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wanTrOyu2Q0

[hirona]

Thanks, James, for those comprehensive information.

Billy Meier’s case was very real in every way to me after 5 years of personal study.

To me, the more Derek Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG is trying to make
false claims and constant attacks, the more I could smell something is going on
to CFI-West/IIG’s with their hidden agenda.

By distracting people’s attention and luring others to join the mud fight,
to me, it is just CFI-West/IIG’s way to avoid real issues and meanwhile applying
smoke screens to disturb and pollute the process of other relevant research
of this case. Just like all other so call “UFO/ET Skeptics” out there been trying to do for eons.

[kasalt]

To me, the more Derek Bartholomaus and CFI-West/IIG is trying to make
false claims and constant attacks, the more I could smell something is going on
to CFI-West/IIG’s with their hidden agenda.

What false claims have they made? Provide specific examples.