Reptilian Questions

[dreamscaper555]

Hey everybody. First off, I am from the states, so David Icke is somewhat new to me. I am very knowledgeable about the illuminati and the new world order.

I heard Icke on the Alex Jones show he sounded like he really knew what was going on. So I got on his website and found the title The David Icke Guide to the Global Conspiracy (and how to end it). The title really resonated with me so I ordered it. I LOVED the first two chapters. I have personal experience that correlates with the knowledge he presents there.

Then all of the sudden, he starts talking about reptile aliens. Not to offend or anything, but what a let down! So when I first started reading about lizard people I was hoping he either had some damned good evidence to back the claim that the elite are reptiles or the reptile section would be short and sweet. Well neither of those things happened, so I am wondering how it is that Icke and other people have come to this conclusion.

I know a lot of this is information from eye witness accounts, but from my own independent studies I know that eye witness accounts are, in a best case scenario (i.e. if the person is actually taking notes while the event is happening) only 75% accurate. In most cases it will only be between 50% and 70% accurate depending on how much time has passed since the incident witnessed.

I also know that there are lots of artifacts and mythological references to "lizard people" that have been recorded. However, I just don't understand how this somehow is proof. This assumes so many things I just can't even list them all. But lets start with this:

It assumes there was no such thing as fiction in the past. That's like somebody in the future digging up a time capsule from the 1980's which holds some children's belongings and concluding that we were plagued by smurfs and care bears. Well why else would these people have written about such things and carved figurines in their likeness if they didn't exist right?

That's kind of the way I look at mythology. It's just stories. But back then there was no TV or even printing presses for that matter so most stories were told verbally and people pretended they were real kind of like people do with ghost stories. When you sit at the campfire and tell ghost stories, most people have an understanding that they aren't real. But at the same time they pretend that they are because they are more exciting that way. Verbal story telling just works better that way, and is really more fun then a book anyway if the storyteller is any good. So some people probably believed that stuff, but the vast majority knew it was just stories. Kind of like Santa Clause.

So another problem I see with the assumptions based on artifacts is falsification of evidence. I notice that Icke mentions homo erectus in the book and claims that the "reptilians" interbred with homo erectus and that is why there is a missing link. Scientists have already concluded that man is not related to homo erectus. There was actually an incident regarding this where a member of the scientific community faked a missing link between homo erectus and homo sapien. But it wasn't discovered that this was a fake for many years. There are countless other examples of scientific forgeries that could be cited as well. Point is, you can't always trust "artifacts", and even if the artifacts are genuine then there is the problem of how to interpret them. Snake people may have just been novel at the time and considered entertaining. Even if they were worshiped, then modern religion should tell you that people tend to worship that which they cannot see, not that which they can.

Finally, there is the clincher of the problem we have with trusting mythological accounts of lizard people. Ancient people had a really good reason to imagine lizard people or even worship them as ancient gods. Dinosaur skeletons. There is no doubt in my mind that our primitive ancestors would have trouble figuring out what creatures such skeletons belong to. As such, giant lizard people would probably be a good logical conclusion for them. Dinosaur bones are certainly strange, and finding something of that sort would be monumental for an indigenous people. So who could blame them for drawing lizards everywhere, when there really weren't any lizards?

Now let me get to to the logical flaws in Icke's assumptions that lizard people rule the planet:

First and foremost, BONES! So you are to tell me that these lizard people are everywhere, and not one single solitary bone has EVER been recovered? The official story of 911 sounds less bogus then that. But let's take it a step further then that. He says in the book that these beings project themselves holographically to be humanoid in form, and they do this consciously by manipulating their genetic codes. Okay, assuming that is true, what about when they die? They should revert back into lizards right? So what about when one gets assassinated? We should see a dead lizard should we not? John F Kennedy was related by blood to monarchs and was assassinated. If he were a lizard, then we would have seen him revert when he was shot. I could dig up countless others.

Next up God = Lizards. Icke seems to make this equation in the book that god means "gods" or lizards in the bible. Only problem with this is doesn't make any sense. The bible mentions faith several times. You don't have to have faith in lizards if they are real tangible beings. If the bible meant lizards I am inclined to think it would say lizards or lizard gods not God, and instead of addressing faith, it would just say look at their tails if you want proof.

Next, if these beings are so advanced and have been for so long, then they should've taken orweillian control of the planet in ancient times instead of now all the sudden in the future when people are way smarter, have guns and are all waking up. For technologically advanced aliens that want to dominate the human race, they sure are dumb. I mean you think people are stupid now, you should have seen people in the dark ages. They were REALLY stupid. And they didn't have guns. The lizards could've just set up control grids (cameras, etc.) and pulled out ray guns and totally dominated. They could've rewritten history to their liking, forced everybody into mind altering drugs and hypnosis, and had their slave race without hardly even lifting a finger. A person in 1000 AD wouldn't even have a clue what a camera was, nor complain about his civil liberties being taken away when they appeared everywhere. So to to think they had all this technology already and are just now using it is just plain ignorant.


Finally, there is the assumption that as long as people see these "reptilians" as looking human then they won't notice that they are lizards. If you talk to any hunters or trackers they could attest to how false this is. Even if they could control how they appear to the human brain, what about their footprints, what about their excrement? Wouldn't it be odd that no clothes would ever fit them? Their tailors would surely notice wouldn't they? I am willing to believe that they might be able to manipulate how people perceive them, but I don't see anyway they could constantly disguise their footprints and such. That doesn't make any sense at all.

Okay, so I am not trying to condemn anyone's beliefs. Hey I could be wrong. Maybe there is something that I am missing here. But I think that anybody who is going to run around yelling about lizard people better have some really compelling evidence. I also think that Mr. Icke is a very intelligent person, and I have a hard time believing that he believes in this lizard stuff knowing all of the logical holes that it is full of. He says in his book that it is necessary to connect the dots. I think it is the only dot that doesn't make any sense and doesn't belong in the book. So it makes me wonder why he put it there. Either he is using too much of the right lobe in his brain and none of the left or perhaps he has some other agenda such as to make people who are legitimately exposing the illuminati look crazy.

So in conclusion, I am willing to reconsider my position on this if anyone can fill in all the holes above with a good rebuttal and provide some decent evidence. I am very open-minded and if I see a tree which bears more fruit then the one I am currently picking, then I will pick from that tree. But I am also a truth seeker. I use my intuition. I use my logic. I use the heretical sword of discernment to slice through falsehoods. As such, this seems very false to me. So I have one last hypothetical question to put forth. For those that believe in these "reptilians", if there were a trial proceeding against these reptilians which have been named in Icke's books to determine whether or not they were in fact reptilians and you were on the jury, and David Icke was the prosecuting attorney, and he presented to you the evidence which he lists in his books, then ignoring the fact that these people have committed real crimes would you convict these people with clear conscience? I would have to say I would not. There are many things that our world leaders have done wrong, and they are definitely slimy. But lizards? I seriously doubt it.

[legendary]

to be honest i thin the majority of people on this website would actually agree with you about the reptilians.

as for me the only example of any mythology that i could think of providing conclusive evidence about whether reptilians existed (or whether a myth was false) hasn't been adressed by anybody who argues that reptilians exist.

this is the legend of Kekrops (first king of Athens) who was half man and half snake. this legend is provable because his tomb is located in the garden of the Erechtheum located on the Athenian Acropolis, and seeing as how so much of the reptilian theory is based on archeological discoveries it would only seem logical one of these archeologists would be able to gain permission to excavate there (although not if they claimed to be looking for a lizard man)

[ice9]

I think many of us have had these thoughts as we grapple with new realities: at the end of the day if it doesn’t feel right to your intuition… dump it. You might find it useful to read some of Ickes other books to get a understanding of the deeper context, these beings are inter dimensional: skeletons and footpints, clothes etc are irrelevant, in the film the Matrix Agent Smith flitted in and out in different guises as did Neo and his crew and nobody was any the wiser. It’s the reptilian mentality that should concern us not what sort of space suit they wear.

[mcthompson2x]

I think it's a matter of perspective and religious and historical understanding. I don't really think that people can be convinced that Reptilians are real and I also don't think that people should be convinced. Every individual should find out for himself or herself on a personal quest for knowledge. My first step was in expanding my horizons - due to increasing synchronicity in my life, and a lot of bizarre random thoughts that occurred to me, I started to believe that we can't explain reality in any way that we think we can. Quantum physics is starting to show that reality is literally created and modified by pure observation and will. Our ideas of space and time are bending, as well as our ideas of the human soul. It's becoming an increasingly more legitimate idea that reincarnation is not so impossible, and that our energy carries through our bodies and is not merely embedded and allowed by the seemingly random formation of the human brain amidst what was apparently the literal nothing the universe formed out of, for no explicable reason. I have in the basis of a year gone from a suicidal, skeptical agnostic to someone who is very close to saying that I know a soul exists and that it is immortal. Since I started to accept these ideas as potentially possible, if for no other reason than out of sheer boredom, I began to experiment and look for meaning in my life, and alas, it was before my very eyes. From there it was just a matter of following the dot-to-dot connections that laid themselves out before me, and brought me to various influences and ideas that literally blew my mind. I feel like I am in direct contact with my higher self/Oversoul and can hold a mental conversation at any time. For others who believe in this stuff, I can be pretty sure that this is my true self, and not some entity that means me harm because I can slam any advice handed to me against the Golden Rule and the compatibility with absolute Love and see if it holds up. You may think this is crazy, and that's fine because I would have thought it was crazy a year ago too. You just have to experience it to believe it, and to experience it you have to look for it and be receptive to it. Anyway, I guess that's a little off topic... The point is, if the soul is immortal, what does it do, where does it go? Does it evolve? So I started listening to accounts from people who claim to be able to tap into this universal intelligence, and I compare them. I look for where ideas collide as opposed to where ideas oppose - also, just look at history. Edgar Cayce had a remarkable accuracy rate with his predictions, including what is happening at this very moment on our planet. How is that explainable by modern science? How is that explainable if there is no soul? The things that Edgar Cayce spoke of, as well as his accuracy rate, resonate with my entire body. He was telling the truth. But it's not up to anyone to prove it to anyone else - individuals must decide for themselves what is true and what is not based on their own experience and knowledge and guidance. You owe it to yourself to find out if what David is saying is true, and for that reason I suggest you do your own independent research and develop/use your own logic, and fully explore the concept with an open mind before you make a judgment. It means the difference between a world of death and a universe of life.

The reason I believe that Reptilians could potentially be very real, is because I accept that there is life in the Universe aside from what is on this planet. In fact, I think the idea that this one planet in this random little part of the universe randomly developed life is completely laughable and any scientist who tries to prove that there is no life in this universe that is so vast that it is immeasurable is very jaded and closed-minded. Has that attitude ever helped humans evolve in the past? So if the universe is vast and potentially teeming with life, there are races that may be billions and billions of years old. If you accept this universe, can you immediately discredit the idea of others? Is it possible that life has gone on for trillions of years in various universes, and that there are races so technologically advanced that they can time travel and switch over from dimension to dimension? To most people, it isn't possible. I know that those people are here to learn and that eventually life will teach them the lesson that they have no idea what this Universe is capable of. So anyway, if the universe is billions of years old, if "Existence" were to have a start then potentially trillions to quadrillions to infinites, then there are definitely going to be races that conquer through strategic psychological warfare. It makes sense that psychological warfare to create dependency is the smartest way to win a war or conquer a planet. It also explains why our reality is so damned inexplicable! We look around ourselves every single day and say "How did the world get so bad? Why are people so stupid? Why don't people act in ways that make logical sense and that benefit the planet and all life on it? Why must we fight wars that were based on lies? Why are leaders that are supposedly bitter enemies being caught colluding in secret?" There are endless questions about why Earth has set itself on such a bizarre and horrible path to self-destruction. Just listen to people talk about their own experiences with alien abductions, and other bizarre phenomena. Look into secret societies and don't immediately think it's all bullshit. There is a lot of evidence that points to a lot of incredibly "impossible" things have manifested in this world, in spite of what people on this planet pass for "logic." The first step is to ask the question, the next step is to answer it for yourself. I could be completely crazy, or I could be right, or I could be partially right (which is probably the truth). What's the harm in researching it thoroughly? It could expand your horizons greater than you could have ever, EVER imagined.

[mcthompson2x]

I think many of us have had these thoughts as we grapple with new realities: at the end of the day if it doesn’t feel right to your intuition… dump it. You might find it useful to read some of Ickes other books to get a understanding of the deeper context, these beings are inter dimensional: skeletons and footpints, clothes etc are irrelevant, in the film the Matrix Agent Smith flitted in and out in different guises as did Neo and his crew and nobody was any the wiser. It’s the reptilian mentality that should concern us not what sort of space suit they wear.

Exactly. Reptilian is as reptilian does. It doesn't matter whether someone is possessed by a fourth dimensional Reptilian entity or not - anyone who's willing to eat his own, metaphorically or literally, is not someone we want to encourage or enable.

[noobcybot]

Hey Dreamscape nice to meet you!
The thing to keep in mind is that even if the reptilian idea does not immediately make sense it can still be used as a tool to help you see how far the conspiracy could go. You claim to be very knowladgeable about the illuminati and in a real world sense I am sure you are. But you will probably find that the agenda does not immediately make sense, these sorts of questions arise:-

- How could the agenda have kept cohesion for so long?
- What is the significance of symbols and numerology?
- What is the reason most all cultures show pictoral and anecdotal evidence of flying saucers, reptilian beings and dragons, possesion, heaven hell and a dreamtime limbo, the flower of life, mythical creatures not explained in zoology of cyrptozoology, a life force chi/orgone energy, knowledge of leylines/dragonlines, worship of the Sun?
- What is the reason for human beings having a "reptilian brain"?
- What, if all religions are from the same source, is the hidden meaning behind the scriptures of the major religions?
- What links dragons, vampires, royal bloodlines and the nwo conspiracy?
- What is the meaning of the hundreds of thousands of referances in media to the reptilians, aliens, dimensions above and below our our, pyramids and structures as stargates, vampireism, altered states and mind expanding drugs, the life"force", existance on other planets specifically Mars, the lady in red, the masonic symbols, checkered floorboards, numerology. When all these things and more combine in a single media film or television show then things look suspicious.

All of reality on this world can be explained if you look into this stuff, it isnt just a zany plot by a bunch of megalomaniacs. You may need to have had experience with astral projection, seeing unreal beings or ufos, time shifts or wierd changes in reality which just seem like they cant be real, psychic phenomenon, etc... to really start to see how if some of these phenomenons are real and dont have an explaination by modern science, then modern science doesant hold all the answers. What Icke puts forward is not the existance of an agenda,but a way of thinking that explains most everything on earth. All we need to do is accept we know nothing.
I thought I had the whole thing down until I saw that the mysteries went deeper. And when I saw that far into it you realise that it doesant concearn our immediate past present and future, but all of human creation and consciousness. None of the 'real world' conspiracies really make sense until you see everything put together. Just keep looking.

The following films are from an Islamic perspective which sometimes puts Westerners off, but a lot of the material holds amazing information and like Icke, shows how the conspiracy is intrinsically linked to all of reality and existance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rtSq-out08

[tim the enchanter]

Hey everybody. First off, I am from the states, so David Icke is somewhat new to me. I am very knowledgeable about the illuminati and the new world order.

I heard Icke on the Alex Jones show he sounded like he really knew what was going on. So I got on his website and found the title The David Icke Guide to the Global Conspiracy (and how to end it). The title really resonated with me so I ordered it. I LOVED the first two chapters. I have personal experience that correlates with the knowledge he presents there.

Then all of the sudden, he starts talking about reptile aliens. Not to offend or anything, but what a let down! So when I first started reading about lizard people I was hoping he either had some damned good evidence to back the claim that the elite are reptiles or the reptile section would be short and sweet. Well neither of those things happened, so I am wondering how it is that Icke and other people have come to this conclusion.

I know a lot of this is information from eye witness accounts, but from my own independent studies I know that eye witness accounts are, in a best case scenario (i.e. if the person is actually taking notes while the event is happening) only 75% accurate. In most cases it will only be between 50% and 70% accurate depending on how much time has passed since the incident witnessed.

I also know that there are lots of artifacts and mythological references to "lizard people" that have been recorded. However, I just don't understand how this somehow is proof. This assumes so many things I just can't even list them all. But lets start with this:

It assumes there was no such thing as fiction in the past. That's like somebody in the future digging up a time capsule from the 1980's which holds some children's belongings and concluding that we were plagued by smurfs and care bears. Well why else would these people have written about such things and carved figurines in their likeness if they didn't exist right?

That's kind of the way I look at mythology. It's just stories. But back then there was no TV or even printing presses for that matter so most stories were told verbally and people pretended they were real kind of like people do with ghost stories. When you sit at the campfire and tell ghost stories, most people have an understanding that they aren't real. But at the same time they pretend that they are because they are more exciting that way. Verbal story telling just works better that way, and is really more fun then a book anyway if the storyteller is any good. So some people probably believed that stuff, but the vast majority knew it was just stories. Kind of like Santa Clause.

So another problem I see with the assumptions based on artifacts is falsification of evidence. I notice that Icke mentions homo erectus in the book and claims that the "reptilians" interbred with homo erectus and that is why there is a missing link. Scientists have already concluded that man is not related to homo erectus. There was actually an incident regarding this where a member of the scientific community faked a missing link between homo erectus and homo sapien. But it wasn't discovered that this was a fake for many years. There are countless other examples of scientific forgeries that could be cited as well. Point is, you can't always trust "artifacts", and even if the artifacts are genuine then there is the problem of how to interpret them. Snake people may have just been novel at the time and considered entertaining. Even if they were worshiped, then modern religion should tell you that people tend to worship that which they cannot see, not that which they can.

Finally, there is the clincher of the problem we have with trusting mythological accounts of lizard people. Ancient people had a really good reason to imagine lizard people or even worship them as ancient gods. Dinosaur skeletons. There is no doubt in my mind that our primitive ancestors would have trouble figuring out what creatures such skeletons belong to. As such, giant lizard people would probably be a good logical conclusion for them. Dinosaur bones are certainly strange, and finding something of that sort would be monumental for an indigenous people. So who could blame them for drawing lizards everywhere, when there really weren't any lizards?

Now let me get to to the logical flaws in Icke's assumptions that lizard people rule the planet:

First and foremost, BONES! So you are to tell me that these lizard people are everywhere, and not one single solitary bone has EVER been recovered? The official story of 911 sounds less bogus then that. But let's take it a step further then that. He says in the book that these beings project themselves holographically to be humanoid in form, and they do this consciously by manipulating their genetic codes. Okay, assuming that is true, what about when they die? They should revert back into lizards right? So what about when one gets assassinated? We should see a dead lizard should we not? John F Kennedy was related by blood to monarchs and was assassinated. If he were a lizard, then we would have seen him revert when he was shot. I could dig up countless others.

Next up God = Lizards. Icke seems to make this equation in the book that god means "gods" or lizards in the bible. Only problem with this is doesn't make any sense. The bible mentions faith several times. You don't have to have faith in lizards if they are real tangible beings. If the bible meant lizards I am inclined to think it would say lizards or lizard gods not God, and instead of addressing faith, it would just say look at their tails if you want proof.

Next, if these beings are so advanced and have been for so long, then they should've taken orweillian control of the planet in ancient times instead of now all the sudden in the future when people are way smarter, have guns and are all waking up. For technologically advanced aliens that want to dominate the human race, they sure are dumb. I mean you think people are stupid now, you should have seen people in the dark ages. They were REALLY stupid. And they didn't have guns. The lizards could've just set up control grids (cameras, etc.) and pulled out ray guns and totally dominated. They could've rewritten history to their liking, forced everybody into mind altering drugs and hypnosis, and had their slave race without hardly even lifting a finger. A person in 1000 AD wouldn't even have a clue what a camera was, nor complain about his civil liberties being taken away when they appeared everywhere. So to to think they had all this technology already and are just now using it is just plain ignorant.


Finally, there is the assumption that as long as people see these "reptilians" as looking human then they won't notice that they are lizards. If you talk to any hunters or trackers they could attest to how false this is. Even if they could control how they appear to the human brain, what about their footprints, what about their excrement? Wouldn't it be odd that no clothes would ever fit them? Their tailors would surely notice wouldn't they? I am willing to believe that they might be able to manipulate how people perceive them, but I don't see anyway they could constantly disguise their footprints and such. That doesn't make any sense at all.

Okay, so I am not trying to condemn anyone's beliefs. Hey I could be wrong. Maybe there is something that I am missing here. But I think that anybody who is going to run around yelling about lizard people better have some really compelling evidence. I also think that Mr. Icke is a very intelligent person, and I have a hard time believing that he believes in this lizard stuff knowing all of the logical holes that it is full of. He says in his book that it is necessary to connect the dots. I think it is the only dot that doesn't make any sense and doesn't belong in the book. So it makes me wonder why he put it there. Either he is using too much of the right lobe in his brain and none of the left or perhaps he has some other agenda such as to make people who are legitimately exposing the illuminati look crazy.

So in conclusion, I am willing to reconsider my position on this if anyone can fill in all the holes above with a good rebuttal and provide some decent evidence. I am very open-minded and if I see a tree which bears more fruit then the one I am currently picking, then I will pick from that tree. But I am also a truth seeker. I use my intuition. I use my logic. I use the heretical sword of discernment to slice through falsehoods. As such, this seems very false to me. So I have one last hypothetical question to put forth. For those that believe in these "reptilians", if there were a trial proceeding against these reptilians which have been named in Icke's books to determine whether or not they were in fact reptilians and you were on the jury, and David Icke was the prosecuting attorney, and he presented to you the evidence which he lists in his books, then ignoring the fact that these people have committed real crimes would you convict these people with clear conscience? I would have to say I would not. There are many things that our world leaders have done wrong, and they are definitely slimy. But lizards? I seriously doubt it.

You're using simple straw man arguments half based on ONE individul's research on the phenomena, research which is perhaps a little extravegant in some regards.

If you have a little money to spare, you can start here: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21941&page=2

And here's our resident reptilian overlord expert:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1748

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=332258#post332258

[tim the enchanter]

to be honest i thin the majority of people on this website would actually agree with you about the reptilians.




Yeah, but are the lazy basterds actualy gonna take the time to check Icke's sources? No, it's just "Icke's blood drinking reptile monsters?! Pull the other one!"

:rolleyes:

[noobcybot]

[QUOTE] Next up God = Lizards. Icke seems to make this equation in the book that god means "gods" or lizards in the bible. Only problem with this is doesn't make any sense. The bible mentions faith several times. You don't have to have faith in lizards if they are real tangible beings. If the bible meant lizards I am inclined to think it would say lizards or lizard gods not God, and instead of addressing faith, it would just say look at their tails if you want proof. [QUOTE]

In some places in the Bible it mentions God as the god consciousness, represented by the levels of existance on a vibrational energy scale. Existance has to exist because otherwise there would be nothing, this manifests as the constant interaction between posative and negative forces like the Chinese Ying/Yang concept and there is a middle point or balance if you will that some might refer to as pure love or the Christ Consciousness. It might have been that if Jesus was an enlightened being that he was preaching about this, contacting the middle point of all consciousness and this was how he was able to perform miracles or 'magic'. It also may mean that when Jesus said he was the son of God that he meant he was one with the collective consciousness like we all are ( which may have been what David was trying to get across when he said he was the Son of God on tv, people just didnt know it yet).
In the old testament however God actually did mean gods as in visible entities that created man and communicated with him in the early days.
I think if you did some research into the Sumerian Tablets you might find better explainations for this.

[QUOTE] Next, if these beings are so advanced and have been for so long, then they should've taken orweillian control of the planet in ancient times instead of now all the sudden in the future when people are way smarter, have guns and are all waking up. For technologically advanced aliens that want to dominate the human race, they sure are dumb. I mean you think people are stupid now, you should have seen people in the dark ages. They were REALLY stupid. And they didn't have guns. The lizards could've just set up control grids (cameras, etc.) and pulled out ray guns and totally dominated. They could've rewritten history to their liking, forced everybody into mind altering drugs and hypnosis, and had their slave race without hardly even lifting a finger. A person in 1000 AD wouldn't even have a clue what a camera was, nor complain about his civil liberties being taken away when they appeared everywhere. So to to think they had all this technology already and are just now using it is just plain ignorant. [QUOTE]

If you read something like ' The Art of War' then the total domination idea does not fully work, reptilians imagine they exist are sneaky and manipulative beings, and go about matters with set strategies. Also they created humans as slaves and may even soldiers, we might easily have proved a threat to them back then and now. Or they may be "growing" us to be "farmed" and so would avoid direct conflict because its better to have billions of slaves who think they are in control then no slaves because slaves = profit.
Do you really think people in the past were so stupid? Then how did they create Pyramids and universities and come up with philosophies and concepts that todays modern thinkers can bareley come close to. If they were so stupid then compared to us now then why do we still follow the religions and doctorines they created to this day.
Furthermore they did set up a control network back then which is society today and they did set up a control grid using pyramids and leylines with technology out of the grasp of todays scientists?
And if the NWO is a human invention, then why do they still practice numerology and occultism?


[QUOTE] Finally, there is the assumption that as long as people see these "reptilians" as looking human then they won't notice that they are lizards. If you talk to any hunters or trackers they could attest to how false this is. Even if they could control how they appear to the human brain, what about their footprints, what about their excrement? Wouldn't it be odd that no clothes would ever fit them? Their tailors would surely notice wouldn't they? I am willing to believe that they might be able to manipulate how people perceive them, but I don't see anyway they could constantly disguise their footprints and such. That doesn't make any sense at all. [QUOTE]

Think of them not as reptilians literally cloaking themselves and more about possesion. A human that is so close to the reptilians mental vibration may be able to be possesed from the 4th dimension. This might explain the practice of inbreeding with royalty and the constant theme of being descendants of god, so the bloodlines that can be most easily possessed can be in power. Or how about the legends of shapeshifters in Native American culture? Witches could go into the astral realm, use thoughtforms to change their image and then use all their mind to concentrate on the middle point in consciousnes while they came into the 3d realm and maintain the image.

[QUOTE]Okay, so I am not trying to condemn anyone's beliefs. Hey I could be wrong. Maybe there is something that I am missing here. But I think that anybody who is going to run around yelling about lizard people better have some really compelling evidence. I also think that Mr. Icke is a very intelligent person, and I have a hard time believing that he believes in this lizard stuff knowing all of the logical holes that it is full of. He says in his book that it is necessary to connect the dots. I think it is the only dot that doesn't make any sense and doesn't belong in the book. So it makes me wonder why he put it there. Either he is using too much of the right lobe in his brain and none of the left or perhaps he has some other agenda such as to make people who are legitimately exposing the illuminati look crazy. [QUOTE]

I am not saying the theory is right but it did connect the dots for me. Maybe Icke is using too much of his right lobe, or maybe you are using too much of the left....and lo, here we go onto the idea of Ying/Yang right away again, existance formed by interacting oposites, the negative being the male aspect, which is why the NWO use phallic symbolism so much and maintain male control of earth and the perception of reality through, logic. Sometimes the most simple explaination is the most unbelieveable.

[mcthompson2x]

All that you really need to accept is the existence of the possibility. Think enormously large for a moment, and we can stop inside one single universe if necessary. Let's assume there is only one universe and that it's only been around 14 billion years old. If life developed elsewhere in the universe, and there is absolutely no evidence that would suggest otherwise (all is hear-say), then wouldn't you think that it's possible that there are going to be conquering civilizations that develop amazingly intellectual and intelligent methods of control? And doesn't it make more sense to you to control and dumb down a population to the point where they think free will is BAD in order to take over? It makes perfect sense and on top of that, there is a great deal of physical and intellectual evidence to suggest that there is some scheme of vast proportion being played out before our very eyes. The thing is, the more you look into it, the more and more complex and detailed everything gets. When we think merely on a global scale, we doom ourselves to defeat. If there really is a large-scale operation to create a one-world government that will kill anyone who stands in the way, and if the soul does not exist, then aren't we just fucked?

People who are in touch with their souls and in control of their soul functions seem to be not only convinced that extraterrestrial life exists, but they are positive that it's influence is all around us. There is another level of being that exists and is an achievable state where we don't have to rely on hear-say and "context" - the truth is revealed to those who know how to access this knowledge, the key to which lies dormant in our very DNA. There's no need to rely on witness testimony when you've talked to some sort of mysterious "other" being yourself. Just ask anyone who has ever had a weird experience with a ouija board.

[tim the enchanter]

All that you really need to accept is the existence of the possibility. Think enormously large for a moment, and we can stop inside one single universe if necessary. Let's assume there is only one universe and that it's only been around 14 billion years old. If life developed elsewhere in the universe, and there is absolutely no evidence that would suggest otherwise (all is hear-say), then wouldn't you think that it's possible that there are going to be conquering civilizations that develop amazingly intellectual and intelligent methods of control?

Thing is though, "they" might not be all that powerful. They might be quite weak and desperate, more akin to a parasite than race of conquering gods. Because indeed, why don't they just pull out the lasers, Independance Day style?

Because presumably they're not Green Martians, and this ain't Barsoom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barsoom

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/985/barsoomli0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Then again, maybe that's exactly what once happened, to all our dooms.

http://gizadeathstar.wordpress.com/

[dreamscaper555]

Okay, I will respond to several responses here. First off, I feel I should give some background on myself and beliefs. I am all on board with the spiritual side of reality. As matter of fact, I have some experience there. That is why I say that the first two chapters of the guide to the global conspiracy resonate with me. Through personal experience I can vouch for the fact that we are indeed spiritual beings and not physical beings, and indeed everything is a wave, matter included. I can also vouch for the existence of inter-dimensional beings. I used to be into practicing shamanism, and I can tell all of you that interdimensional beings are provable if you are willing to do one of three things. These three things are 1. take hardcore psychodelic drugs such as ayahuasca (I used to drink it), deprive yourself of sleep for a very long time, or cause yourself to die and then be brought back to life. The third method is the most powerful, and the most dangerous.

So in a very bizarre experience I actually met a few of these interdimensional beings, and they weren't lizards. Neither were they at all physical. The story of what they were and what they said and did is so bizarre that I don't even like to repeat it since it makes little sense to most people anyway. But one of them actually showed me how things in this universe actually look. It was awesome! Matter and energy were one. It is actually really confusing to the brain. I remember asking "how can you tell what is what and where everything is?". To which they responded "you get used to it". The other thing I learned was that these beings are mostly total liars, and will tell you anything to get you to do what they want you to do. So in short, I am not disbelieving of reptilians due to closed mindedness. Quite the opposite in fact. It just hasn't passed my truth test. Anything that I am to believe has to go through a multi-pronged attack. 1. It must make logical sense. 2. It must have the ring of truth (call it intuition or whatever), 3. It must survive the sword of discernment (a symbolic spiritual tool I use to rip it apart with my logic and intuition simultaneously and debunk). If it doesn't pass that test I am not inclined to believe it. However, I NEVER rule anything out.

Now I will respond to specific responses quoted from several different sources:

Quote: "It’s the reptilian mentality that should concern us not what sort of space suit they wear."

It should though because in the book it specifically says that these beings exist physically on some level and that they are the people in control of our planet. If Icke had said they are non-physical beings that influence the people who rule our planet mentally, I would've just been like "oh more of those". Really, no matter which way you look at it, it doesn't make sense though since if they are not physical beings then they have no real shape and wouldn't be "reptilian" so to speak. As Icke noted, everything is waves, so then there are no shapes, only frequencies, wavelengths, and amplitudes. This lack of shape was what was so confusing when I was looking at the universe in wave format. Any shape that you do see from the spiritual realm is a construct of your brain. I think Icke would have to agree with me on that as well.

Quote: "But you will probably find that the agenda does not immediately make sense, these sorts of questions arise:-

- How could the agenda have kept cohesion for so long?
- What is the significance of symbols and numerology?
- What is the reason most all cultures show pictoral and anecdotal evidence of flying saucers, reptilian beings and dragons, possesion, heaven hell and a dreamtime limbo, the flower of life, mythical creatures not explained in zoology of cyrptozoology, a life force chi/orgone energy, knowledge of leylines/dragonlines, worship of the Sun?
- What is the reason for human beings having a "reptilian brain"?
- What, if all religions are from the same source, is the hidden meaning behind the scriptures of the major religions?
- What links dragons, vampires, royal bloodlines and the nwo conspiracy?
- What is the meaning of the hundreds of thousands of referances in media to the reptilians, aliens, dimensions above and below our our, pyramids and structures as stargates, vampireism, altered states and mind expanding drugs, the life"force", existance on other planets specifically Mars, the lady in red, the masonic symbols, checkered floorboards, numerology. When all these things and more combine in a single media film or television show then things look suspicious."

To me you don't need lizards to explain that stuff. Actually lizards seem like a rather complicated answer. Here it is:

How could the agenda have kept cohesion for so long?

Wealth and aspirations for world domination were passed down from generation to generation in all the royal families. In ancient times this was pretty normal, and only now in modern day does it seem odd. It used to be, if your father was a blacksmith, you would also be a blacksmith, and your son would be a blacksmith as well. Trades were passed down from generation to generation. The only reason why your family isn't still blacksmithing is because blacksmithing is no longer in demand, and society has changed to make it so that now to learn a trade you go to school and become indoctrinated. However, nothing has changed for those who are above society, and there is really little to dislike about money and power. Add that in with a strong genetic tendency to seek power over other men, and really this is quite plausible.

What is the significance of symbols and numerology?

They are useful for occult practices. I have used them and continue to use them for benevolent purposes. They are especially powerful on the spiritual plain. They have only become evil because the illuminati have made them so. Hopefully some time in the future we can take these back.

What is the reason most all cultures show pictoral and anecdotal evidence of flying saucers, reptilian beings and dragons, possesion, heaven hell and a dreamtime limbo, the flower of life, mythical creatures not explained in zoology of cyrptozoology, a life force chi/orgone energy, knowledge of leylines/dragonlines, worship of the Sun?

Simple, some of these things are legitimate. Some of them are symbolic, and others are just works of fiction. Sun worship only makes sense. The sun gives energy and life. UFO's have to be a real phenomena as there are WAY too many unconnected reports to just write off. Chi energy is provable, and is proven scientifically. Look up mitogenetic radiation and bioplasm. Mythical creatures are mostly works of fiction though. Notice that most of them are just combinations of two different animals. Like a man and a lizard, or a a lion and a bird. These could be in different cultures because of traveling storytellers. Storytelling is one of the original vagabond arts. My uncle is a storyteller and travels all over the place telling his tales. Even though many stories aren't true, they still have value not just for entertainment but for wisdom. Kind of like George Orwells 1984. It was fiction, yet it was downright prophetic. Also, again, dinosaur bones would be a good reason for a fascination with lizards. I noticed some of these lizard people that Icke refers to were "lizard giant hybrids". Giant lizards, ergo dinosaurs.

What, if all religions are from the same source, is the hidden meaning behind the scriptures of the major religions?

I don't believe that all religions are from the same source, unless you mean that source to be man. I hold that if the bible were written by god, then it wouldn't be in book format. What need does god have of a printing press? Same with the tora and the quran. To me religion is just an organized philosophy. Taoism is considered religion, but isnt that just a philosophy? Can you even really compare taoism with such religions as islam? What about buddhism? Are you going to tell me that Shakyamuni was a lizard too? He was clearly just a man who achieved enlightenment, and there is nothing in the sutras or tantras that suggests otherwise.

What is the reason for human beings having a "reptilian brain"?

As far as I can tell it is more like a monkey brain. See http://www.dericbownds.net/evol_mind_web/evol_hommind-22.gif

and http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://science.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/Science/Images/Content/human-brain-vis304784-ga.jpg&imgrefurl=http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/photos/brain.html&h=330&w=470&sz=39&tbnid=QXR9hzfUmk4J::&tbnh=91&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhuman%2Bbrain&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=3&ct=image&cd=1

One is a chimpanzee brain, the other a human brain. So then do both chimpanzees and humans have lizard brains? If so, then how did the chimps get reptile dna?

What is the meaning of the hundreds of thousands of referances in media to the reptilians, aliens, dimensions above and below our our, pyramids and structures as stargates, vampireism, altered states and mind expanding drugs, the life"force", existance on other planets specifically Mars, the lady in red, the masonic symbols, checkered floorboards, numerology. When all these things and more combine in a single media film or television show then things look suspicious.

I am not really sure what you mean by that, but I am sure that again you are talking about works of fiction. Nowadays we have science fiction, so real theories are incorporated into works of fiction. I think that science fiction actually does a service to the public as it opens people's minds a bit. Like doctor who, that is one of the better ones. If that had never been created many people would not be any the wiser about some of these things. That is what is cool about fiction. Sometimes very clever people can use it to communicate important messages to the public and the illuminati are none the wiser. I refer mostly to the old Doctor Who BTW. The newer one is dumbed down a bit.

Okay, so let me save my place here and I will continue this conversation later. Thank you everybody for all your responses. Please note, I am not trying to be argumentative. I rather like a good conversation with differing viewpoints. So please keep them coming!

[mcthompson2x]

Thing is though, "they" might not be all that powerful. They might be quite weak and desperate, more akin to a parasite than race of conquering gods. Because indeed, why don't they just pull out the lasers, Independance Day style?

Because presumably they're not Green Martians, and this ain't Barsoom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barsoom

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/985/barsoomli0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Then again, maybe that's exactly what once happened, to all our dooms.

http://gizadeathstar.wordpress.com/

There is nothing more empowering than realizing the lack of power others have over you entirely. The greatest feeling in the world for me is knowing that in spite of any temporary pain or discontent, the default is love and harmony. Anything else is an extension of that love and free well, and things will manifest as they shall, but because we are all the exact same thing - one conscious mind creating one reality, segmenting off into various infinite capabilities. We think that there is a solo, single point of reference within the human body and that is the mind, and that it is merely one thing, creating itself constantly. The truth is that the mind is a collaboration of many smaller thought processes which are just as equally utilizing free will to exist in harmony with each other, or to the detriment of the individual, in disharmony. But people determine their own wavelengths and understanding, and this is the knowledge that these monsters don't want to be revealed. They don't want you to know that they can never harm you, not for one second in the never-ending aeons of love that compromise our essential understanding. They want you to think they can kill you, hurt you, end your life, take your "money," ruin your "reputation," wreck your "life" - but they themselves forget as well. They forget because there is no other explanation for why they try at all. They will remember, and they have no choice but to remember, and to remember means they will realize the horrible creatures they are and they will realize the blood they have spilt and the souls they have tormented and they will mourn the doom they nurtured and created. There is no "winning" or "losing" - there is only progress, and the speed between intervals of evolution. People adjust these speeds according to their fears and needs to maintain ego, a thing which was created to enslave us literally.

I'm just rambling but the point is there is nothing to do but be harmonious, and that we are neverending and all-encompassing. They want us to be so afraid of them because it gives them power but the absolute reality of the situation is that they cannot control how we feel about anything, and that's why they hate us so much.

[dreamscaper555]

mcthompson2x: Good show on the Edgar Cayce. I happen to be a Cayce fan, and often refer to the Cayce files when looking for an answer. I can tell you and I think similarly in a few areas. I believe the unconscious mind to be incredibly powerful. Cayce is proof of that. That is why a lot of my spiritual practice revolves around dreaming. Thing is, if you don't use your unconscious mind, it doesn't just go to waste. Other people can use it. This is what the illuminati count on. This is why people these days are so brainwashed. They don't use their unconscious minds, so the elite use it for them via programming. A person who is a master of his or her unconscious self is not at all susceptible to programming. THAT'S what the elite don't want you to know, and why Edgar Cayce has been buried very deeply. It's kind of funny though. I still to this day have never had one person argue that Cayce was a fake. That would be a losing argument for sure. Mostly people just have never heard of him or tend to ignore him. Disbelief is somewhat common, but I have yet to hear a reason for the disbelief. It is all just general disbelief because it seems impossible to left brainers.

Although I definitely think that the right brain has been suppressed, at the same time though I don't think that people need to overcompensate. True wisdom comes from using both sides of the brain in conjuction with one another, not one or the other. I like to point out that a good crossover point is mathematics. Mathematics transcend both. You can make mathematical proofs for some of the wildest theories! Furthermore, mathematicians tend to be pretty solidly rounded and use both left and right because that is where math leads you. Chance of no God: mathematically astronomical, chance of no extraterrestrials: mathematically astronomical. I mean look, even imaginary numbers are unbelievably useful. Math is also closely related to symbology and numerology, therefore occult.

Point is though, even though we should all keep the openest minds possible, you can't throw logic out the window. There is just too much information to believe it all or know it all. You have to have some kind of guide. Those guides are intuition and logic. Of course the former is a bit hard to describe, but what I am really trying to find out here is what logic and intuitions lead people here in this forum to believe in the physical existence of reptilians, and then share my logical and intuitional views on it as well. The spiritual existence of them really doesn't concern me though, since I really don't think there are very many things if any that don't exist in the spiritual dimensions. So the fact that there would be lizards there would not be shocking to me. What is shocking is that people seem to think they exist here disguised as real people and somehow never leave ANY physical evidence. That seems pretty hard to swallow. But maybe there is a good explanation for this that I have not thought of yet. If someone here could explain that in a way that makes sense I would be a lot more inclined to accept the possibility that it may be true. But if you are going to say that they are just spiritual beings that influence elitists, then that is really no different then occult demonic possession which is more along the lines of what Tex Marrs, Jordan Maxwell, and Alex Jones are saying and the belief that I ascribe to as well.

At the moment, the occult practices thing seems more feasible to me especially considering my own experiences. Occult practice is dangerous! You never know what the hell might attack and overpower you. I highly advise against it to anyone who may be thinking about it and isn't VERY well researched and practiced, including shamanism. All of it is very dangerous. Also, if you want to know what the illuminati is REALLY about, it makes sense to me to ask one of them. (http://www.leozagami.com/) For any of you that haven't already, you should check out this interview (http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2006/12dec/RICR-061217.html) with a former illuminati member who came clean. I guess the guy could be BSing, but he seems pretty legit to me! The stuff he describes is also QUITE BIZARRE, as I know the illuminati are themselves. His website is now up and running as well and he has started a forum.

[dreamscaper555]

Thing is though, "they" might not be all that powerful. They might be quite weak and desperate, more akin to a parasite than race of conquering gods. Because indeed, why don't they just pull out the lasers, Independance Day style?

Because presumably they're not Green Martians, and this ain't Barsoom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barsoom

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/985/barsoomli0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Then again, maybe that's exactly what once happened, to all our dooms.

http://gizadeathstar.wordpress.com/

I don't know. Let's put it this way then. Let's say you could go back in time before the bow and arrow was even invented and you brought 50 people, a few tanks, craploads of FAL rifles, and craploads of ammunition, body armor, grenades, sniper rifles, etc. Do you think you could conquer the world? I DO! You would be as gods, and would easily dominate our ancient ancestors. So supposedly these reptilians are more advanced then all of that. These weapons are primative in comparison. Wouldn't you say there are at least 50 of them? Plus they can always get others to do their bidding like they do already. Seems like a no brainer. Instant world domination. Even if they are just parasites, it really wouldn't be that hard with all this advanced technology to get primative man to serve under them. It would be a lot easier then it is now anyway. And it's pretty damned easy now. So what was the hold up? It's like the villain in the old spy movies that instead just capping the protagonist and being done with it chooses to tie them up and slowly lower him into a pool of sharks and decides to just assume that it worked and walks away. Just shoot him already, idiot!

[dreamscaper555]

[QUOTE] Next up God = Lizards. Icke seems to make this equation in the book that god means "gods" or lizards in the bible. Only problem with this is doesn't make any sense. The bible mentions faith several times. You don't have to have faith in lizards if they are real tangible beings. If the bible meant lizards I am inclined to think it would say lizards or lizard gods not God, and instead of addressing faith, it would just say look at their tails if you want proof. [QUOTE]

In some places in the Bible it mentions God as the god consciousness, represented by the levels of existance on a vibrational energy scale. Existance has to exist because otherwise there would be nothing, this manifests as the constant interaction between posative and negative forces like the Chinese Ying/Yang concept and there is a middle point or balance if you will that some might refer to as pure love or the Christ Consciousness. It might have been that if Jesus was an enlightened being that he was preaching about this, contacting the middle point of all consciousness and this was how he was able to perform miracles or 'magic'. It also may mean that when Jesus said he was the son of God that he meant he was one with the collective consciousness like we all are ( which may have been what David was trying to get across when he said he was the Son of God on tv, people just didnt know it yet).
In the old testament however God actually did mean gods as in visible entities that created man and communicated with him in the early days.
I think if you did some research into the Sumerian Tablets you might find better explainations for this.

[QUOTE] Next, if these beings are so advanced and have been for so long, then they should've taken orweillian control of the planet in ancient times instead of now all the sudden in the future when people are way smarter, have guns and are all waking up. For technologically advanced aliens that want to dominate the human race, they sure are dumb. I mean you think people are stupid now, you should have seen people in the dark ages. They were REALLY stupid. And they didn't have guns. The lizards could've just set up control grids (cameras, etc.) and pulled out ray guns and totally dominated. They could've rewritten history to their liking, forced everybody into mind altering drugs and hypnosis, and had their slave race without hardly even lifting a finger. A person in 1000 AD wouldn't even have a clue what a camera was, nor complain about his civil liberties being taken away when they appeared everywhere. So to to think they had all this technology already and are just now using it is just plain ignorant. [QUOTE]

If you read something like ' The Art of War' then the total domination idea does not fully work, reptilians imagine they exist are sneaky and manipulative beings, and go about matters with set strategies. Also they created humans as slaves and may even soldiers, we might easily have proved a threat to them back then and now. Or they may be "growing" us to be "farmed" and so would avoid direct conflict because its better to have billions of slaves who think they are in control then no slaves because slaves = profit.
Do you really think people in the past were so stupid? Then how did they create Pyramids and universities and come up with philosophies and concepts that todays modern thinkers can bareley come close to. If they were so stupid then compared to us now then why do we still follow the religions and doctorines they created to this day.
Furthermore they did set up a control network back then which is society today and they did set up a control grid using pyramids and leylines with technology out of the grasp of todays scientists?
And if the NWO is a human invention, then why do they still practice numerology and occultism?


[QUOTE] Finally, there is the assumption that as long as people see these "reptilians" as looking human then they won't notice that they are lizards. If you talk to any hunters or trackers they could attest to how false this is. Even if they could control how they appear to the human brain, what about their footprints, what about their excrement? Wouldn't it be odd that no clothes would ever fit them? Their tailors would surely notice wouldn't they? I am willing to believe that they might be able to manipulate how people perceive them, but I don't see anyway they could constantly disguise their footprints and such. That doesn't make any sense at all. [QUOTE]

Think of them not as reptilians literally cloaking themselves and more about possesion. A human that is so close to the reptilians mental vibration may be able to be possesed from the 4th dimension. This might explain the practice of inbreeding with royalty and the constant theme of being descendants of god, so the bloodlines that can be most easily possessed can be in power. Or how about the legends of shapeshifters in Native American culture? Witches could go into the astral realm, use thoughtforms to change their image and then use all their mind to concentrate on the middle point in consciousnes while they came into the 3d realm and maintain the image.

[QUOTE]Okay, so I am not trying to condemn anyone's beliefs. Hey I could be wrong. Maybe there is something that I am missing here. But I think that anybody who is going to run around yelling about lizard people better have some really compelling evidence. I also think that Mr. Icke is a very intelligent person, and I have a hard time believing that he believes in this lizard stuff knowing all of the logical holes that it is full of. He says in his book that it is necessary to connect the dots. I think it is the only dot that doesn't make any sense and doesn't belong in the book. So it makes me wonder why he put it there. Either he is using too much of the right lobe in his brain and none of the left or perhaps he has some other agenda such as to make people who are legitimately exposing the illuminati look crazy. [QUOTE]

I am not saying the theory is right but it did connect the dots for me. Maybe Icke is using too much of his right lobe, or maybe you are using too much of the left....and lo, here we go onto the idea of Ying/Yang right away again, existance formed by interacting oposites, the negative being the male aspect, which is why the NWO use phallic symbolism so much and maintain male control of earth and the perception of reality through, logic. Sometimes the most simple explaination is the most unbelieveable.

"In some places in the Bible it mentions God as the god consciousness, represented by the levels of existance on a vibrational energy scale. Existance has to exist because otherwise there would be nothing, this manifests as the constant interaction between posative and negative forces like the Chinese Ying/Yang concept and there is a middle point or balance if you will that some might refer to as pure love or the Christ Consciousness. It might have been that if Jesus was an enlightened being that he was preaching about this, contacting the middle point of all consciousness and this was how he was able to perform miracles or 'magic'. It also may mean that when Jesus said he was the son of God that he meant he was one with the collective consciousness like we all are ( which may have been what David was trying to get across when he said he was the Son of God on tv, people just didnt know it yet).
In the old testament however God actually did mean gods as in visible entities that created man and communicated with him in the early days.
I think if you did some research into the Sumerian"

Hey, that sounds pretty interesting. What passages are those that speak of vibrational energy? I don't remember reading that in there, but I haven't read the bible in quite a long time. I have been meaning to reread, except I am looking for a copy of the geneva bible instead of a retranslation of that sniveling idiot king james's version.

"Or they may be "growing" us to be "farmed" and so would avoid direct conflict because its better to have billions of slaves who think they are in control then no slaves because slaves = profit."

Okay, but if that is true, then why do they want to reduce the population of the planet by 90%?

"Think of them not as reptilians literally cloaking themselves and more about possesion. A human that is so close to the reptilians mental vibration may be able to be possesed from the 4th dimension. This might explain the practice of inbreeding with royalty and the constant theme of being descendants of god, so the bloodlines that can be most easily possessed can be in power. Or how about the legends of shapeshifters in Native American culture? Witches could go into the astral realm, use thoughtforms to change their image and then use all their mind to concentrate on the middle point in consciousnes while they came into the 3d realm and maintain the image."

Aha! Now we are getting somewhere. I fully believe in spiritual possession. I also think that is commonly miscategorized as multiple personality disorder which should be named multiple possession syndrome. As a matter of fact, according to my belief there are many types of possession. There is total possession by one entity, total possession by multiple entities, and then there is sharing with one or more entity which is more like strong influence rather then possession. I also believe that possession is often caused by fooling around with the occult when you don't know what you are doing (or even sometimes when you do). In Buddhism there are seven levels of existence. Most people do not get to experience the top two which are the gods and the jealous gods. For those who do, if you experience the gods (which is almost impossible)you experience enlightenment. But if you experience the jealous gods, you are screwed. I think this is a pretty accurate assessment of how that works, and may explain why some of the elite act so wickedly. BUT, this doesn't really explain the whole shape shifting thing icke was talking about. Nor do lizards really come into play in the whole thing other then the possessing entities may or may not identify as lizards (they wouldn't actually be lizards since there is no shape in the spiritual realms). I do not deny that reptilians exist in that realm. Everything exists in that realm. It would be incredibly unlikely not to find a few entities that identify as reptiles. But why conclude that they are possessed by reptilians, and not something else. Really, these things can choose to identify as anything. And whatever they choose to identify as most likely whatever they feel will pursuade you to go along with their agenda. That's what they do, just lie, lie, lie. I experienced this first hand, and it really explains a lot about how some of our leaders have an inability to tell the truth. It is that mentality. It is the truth that these beings fear. They hate it.

BTW, that left/right paradigm really does get old. Have to agree there. But I was really getting at that I thought maybe Icke was presenting false information on purpose for some agenda that we don't know of. Really no evidence for this, just a hunch. I don't even necessarily think it is a bad agenda. Maybe something else. I just found it really odd that I was reading his book and was totally on the same wavelength/frequency, then hit lizard people and was totally like HUH? It was like hitting a brick wall. It just kind of felt like he had obtained the same information I had in much the same way I had, so the whole reptile thing seemed incredibly strange. I have taken ayahuasca. No lizards. I also have studied it, and know that most people experience "gnomes" not lizards. This info is from a government funded research study that refers to DMT as the spirit chemical. I never got any gnomes out of it either though...

[marpat]

to be honest i thin the majority of people on this website would actually agree with you about the reptilians.

as for me the only example of any mythology that i could think of providing conclusive evidence about whether reptilians existed (or whether a myth was false) hasn't been adressed by anybody who argues that reptilians exist.

this is the legend of Kekrops (first king of Athens) who was half man and half snake. this legend is provable because his tomb is located in the garden of the Erechtheum located on the Athenian Acropolis, and seeing as how so much of the reptilian theory is based on archeological discoveries it would only seem logical one of these archeologists would be able to gain permission to excavate there (although not if they claimed to be looking for a lizard man)


The trouble with these hybrids are that there are so many variations. You can get half man- half horse or bull or anything, but nobody suggests that there are alien bull men about.

I don't feel that mythology is suitable evidence.

[mcthompson2x]

The trouble with these hybrids are that there are so many variations. You can get half man- half horse or bull or anything, but nobody suggests that there are alien bull men about.

I don't feel that mythology is suitable evidence.

It's truly irrelevant anyway, it's merely a distraction. Even if it is true, sitting around wondering about it keeps us from wondering about what really matters - the way that we are being controlled by globalist elitists who are bent killing nearly everyone on this planet.

[tim the enchanter]

I'll get right on back to this thread in a couple of hours, not deserting it...

:)

[darketernal]

It's truly irrelevant anyway, it's merely a distraction. Even if it is true, sitting around wondering about it keeps us from wondering about what really matters - the way that we are being controlled by globalist elitists who are bent killing nearly everyone on this planet.

Don't be rediculous. If they kill everyone, there would be no livestock left. They simply wish to "cull the herd".

[mcthompson2x]

Don't be rediculous. If they kill everyone, there would be no livestock left. They simply wish to "cull the herd".

I'm not being ridiculous at all, in their attempt to "cull the herd" they will kill everyone, including themselves. They just don't believe that they'll die. They think they can manipulate and scheme and have the end of the world turn out in their favor, so they're bringing it on. They think they're going to be gods, and for awhile at least they'll let their willing slaves serve and worship them. This is a fantasy. They're going to fail pathetically, and by attacking nature and the people on this planet, they are dooming themselves to death.

[tim the enchanter]

I used to be into practicing shamanism, and I can tell all of you that interdimensional beings are provable if you are willing to do one of three things. These three things are 1. take hardcore psychodelic drugs such as ayahuasca (I used to drink it), deprive yourself of sleep for a very long time, or cause yourself to die and then be brought back to life. The third method is the most powerful, and the most dangerous.
So in a very bizarre experience I actually met a few of these interdimensional beings, and they weren't lizards.

Guess you just weren't taking the right dose:

http://www.johnperkins.org/shapeshifting_book.htm

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9ztU1bafTig

:D

See my "Authors" thread for more info on the above filmaker

Neither were they at all physical. The story of what they were and what they said and did is so bizarre that I don't even like to repeat it since it makes little sense to most people anyway.

Try me. :)


Now I will respond to specific responses quoted from several different sources:

Quote: "It’s the reptilian mentality that should concern us not what sort of space suit they wear."

It should though because in the book it specifically says that these beings exist physically on some level and that they are the people in control of our planet. If Icke had said they are non-physical beings that influence the people who rule our planet mentally, I would've just been like "oh more of those". Really, no matter which way you look at it, it doesn't make sense though since if they are not physical beings then they have no real shape and wouldn't be "reptilian" so to speak.

Maybe they just work through certain bloodlines, as apposed to "possesing" them.



" - What is the meaning of the hundreds of thousands of referances in media to the reptilians, aliens, dimensions above and below our our, pyramids and structures as stargates, vampireism, altered states and mind expanding drugs, the life"force", existance on other planets specifically Mars, the lady in red, the masonic symbols, checkered floorboards, numerology. When all these things and more combine in a single media film or television show then things look suspicious."


"What is the meaning of the hundreds of thousands of referances in media to the reptilians, aliens, dimensions above and below our our, pyramids and structures as stargates, vampireism, altered states and mind expanding drugs, the life"force", existance on other planets specifically Mars, the lady in red, the masonic symbols, checkered floorboards, numerology. When all these things and more combine in a single media film or television show then things look suspicious."

I am not really sure what you mean by that, but I am sure that again you are talking about works of fiction.

O RLY?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_humanoids_in_fiction#In_fiction


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2DRXK8FG-6U

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9k4kiz9UWY8

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hnOtE1Wtkjw

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wtMZKYnLg5c

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=A_YgupUZNdw

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gWeZasH5u7o

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xJjhP6VR-kU&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7NzzzcOWPH0


I could go no.

[tim the enchanter]

There is nothing more empowering than realizing the lack of power others have over you entirely. The greatest feeling in the world for me is knowing that in spite of any temporary pain or discontent, the default is love and harmony. Anything else is an extension of that love and free well, and things will manifest as they shall, but because we are all the exact same thing - one conscious mind creating one reality, segmenting off into various infinite capabilities. We think that there is a solo, single point of reference within the human body and that is the mind, and that it is merely one thing, creating itself constantly. The truth is that the mind is a collaboration of many smaller thought processes which are just as equally utilizing free will to exist in harmony with each other, or to the detriment of the individual, in disharmony. But people determine their own wavelengths and understanding, and this is the knowledge that these monsters don't want to be revealed. They don't want you to know that they can never harm you, not for one second in the never-ending aeons of love that compromise our essential understanding. They want you to think they can kill you, hurt you, end your life, take your "money," ruin your "reputation," wreck your "life" - but they themselves forget as well. They forget because there is no other explanation for why they try at all. They will remember, and they have no choice but to remember, and to remember means they will realize the horrible creatures they are and they will realize the blood they have spilt and the souls they have tormented and they will mourn the doom they nurtured and created. There is no "winning" or "losing" - there is only progress, and the speed between intervals of evolution. People adjust these speeds according to their fears and needs to maintain ego, a thing which was created to enslave us literally.

I'm just rambling but the point is there is nothing to do but be harmonious, and that we are neverending and all-encompassing. They want us to be so afraid of them because it gives them power but the absolute reality of the situation is that they cannot control how we feel about anything, and that's why they hate us so much.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D79peD6i-rw

;)

[tim the enchanter]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1748

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3795

[darketernal]

I'm not being ridiculous at all, in their attempt to "cull the herd" they will kill everyone, including themselves. They just don't believe that they'll die. They think they can manipulate and scheme and have the end of the world turn out in their favor, so they're bringing it on. They think they're going to be gods, and for awhile at least they'll let their willing slaves serve and worship them. This is a fantasy. They're going to fail pathetically, and by attacking nature and the people on this planet, they are dooming themselves to death.

They never put themselves at risk. They can't afford to lose their herd completely, but certainly have no issues with cutting it down to a few million. In any event it is not like they have not done it before.

[noobcybot]

And so Dreamscaper, I have to admit I was in the same situation as you, for I had not knowingly came into contact with real reptilians in any way although I did seem to have most of the other parts of the agenda down aswell as a good idea of what other dimensions might be like and one-mind state might be like. I saw how reptilians through the idea of extra-dimensionals might make sense, and logically I thought on earth dinosaur fossils and such might have led to ancient humans making artistic representations of them.
But look at those media sources the Enchanter put forward, and there are literally hundreds of thousands more then we have all the things you have knowledge of.....and also the reptilians.
I will admit to the possibility of an evil 4th dimensional entity or something using an inherant fear of reptiles in humans to take over humanity. But to me it seems more contrived than simply a race of reptilian beings existing before humans and simply manipulating them.

[mcthompson2x]

They never put themselves at risk. They can't afford to lose their herd completely, but certainly have no issues with cutting it down to a few million. In any event it is not like they have not done it before.

By engaging in the practice of evil and dark magic they put themselves at risk to predators who will have no problems preying on them. The population is enormous, and they are certainly at risk, which is why they are so damned scared of what's about to happen. It's not going exactly according to plan and you can tell by the simple fact that a site like this exists. I'm really not worried about the controllers and I will give them no power over me. They are going to die and they'll manufacture their own destruction, it's inevitable. There is no need to sit back and worry about whether or not they're going to pull it off because they're destined to fail by the nature of reality alone.

[darketernal]

By engaging in the practice of evil and dark magic they put themselves at risk to predators who will have no problems preying on them. The population is enormous, and they are certainly at risk, which is why they are so damned scared of what's about to happen. It's not going exactly according to plan and you can tell by the simple fact that a site like this exists. I'm really not worried about the controllers and I will give them no power over me. They are going to die and they'll manufacture their own destruction, it's inevitable. There is no need to sit back and worry about whether or not they're going to pull it off because they're destined to fail by the nature of reality alone.


The only way they will fail is if enough humans wake up and reclaim enough of their power to change the consensus reality, and prevent them. They've culled the herd before, but only because the herd chose to be livestock, and my chosing an existance of slavery or livestock one gives the power to their masters to do as they will.

[dreamscaper555]

And so Dreamscaper, I have to admit I was in the same situation as you, for I had not knowingly came into contact with real reptilians in any way although I did seem to have most of the other parts of the agenda down aswell as a good idea of what other dimensions might be like and one-mind state might be like. I saw how reptilians through the idea of extra-dimensionals might make sense, and logically I thought on earth dinosaur fossils and such might have led to ancient humans making artistic representations of them.
But look at those media sources the Enchanter put forward, and there are literally hundreds of thousands more then we have all the things you have knowledge of.....and also the reptilians.
I will admit to the possibility of an evil 4th dimensional entity or something using an inherant fear of reptiles in humans to take over humanity. But to me it seems more contrived than simply a race of reptilian beings existing before humans and simply manipulating them.

Okay, so then they use reptiles as villains on the television and movies somewhat frequently. They use bugs quite a bit too. How many b movies have been made about ants, spiders, and other insects. Remember starship troopers? Why do people have such an aversion to insects? Are there insect aliens? How about this one. You know what the number one villain is in movies and television? People. People are the number one enemy.

I think that is because people are most likely creating the chaos and mayhem that we are experiencing today. Just look at human nature. It is completely natural to want to be at the top and be in control. When people work in corporations, their ultimate goal is ladder climbing. They want to be at the top. So we know that is human instinct to want to be the king, the president, the CEO, whatever. But now let's look at horrible acts. Is that human nature? For most, maybe not. But you don't have to be an illuminatus to be a sick person. Look at all the serial killers, rapists, and downright disgusting criminals that have fun at the expense of other people's suffering and they love it. Most people don't do that, but who is to say that more people don't have the potential to do that. Look at children that catch insects, and tear the legs off one by one. Children that put tape on cat's feet and do other cruel bizarre things to animals. Most of them don't grow up to be serial killers. But the potential to get enjoyment from the suffering of others is there. Of course not every child will do these things. But let's say that a man that does that mates with a woman whose father did that. Let's also say that seeking money and power run in the family. They then decide they like these traits, and want their offspring to keep these traits. So they find a few other families that also have these traits. Then these few families only breed with one another. These traits get stronger and stronger while at the same time their genetic stock gets more perverted and grotesque from inbreeding. Pretty soon we have several families that have offspring who only do the evil bidding of their family inheritance.

Don't you think this a pretty good explanation of why our rulers are so twisted and how they keep their goals going through inheritance? I think they are even more evil and twisted then originally intended. At first these people just admired aggressive and domineering family traits. But through inbreeding they have devolved into being totally sick and twisted. If you want a good example of how inbreeding causes this, watch the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That movie is based on a true story here in Texas. It was a family that lived in the hills that inbred so much that they become totally devolved, sick, and twisted beyond belief. Much of their offspring was deformed and retarded as well. The elite have found out that excessive inbreeding causes this as well. So now they refresh the genetics every once in a while to prevent deformities and retardation. But some of the tell tale signs are still there. Look how stupid our current president is here in the states. Look how sick and twisted he is. He is not inbred to the point of deformation and retardation, but he is on his way there genetically speaking. Inbreeding is kind of like pissing in the gene pool. Eventually it becomes quite rancid and foul. The fact that the elite ruling class are obsessed with breeding with each other over and over is well documented. So this explanation seems more likely then them being reptiles.

I actually kind of find it annoying that most people have an aversion to bugs and reptiles. My girlfriend is like that, if she sees a bug she freaks out. I like bugs and I refuse to kill them. When I see a snake, my first impulse is to want to pick it up. Same with lizards. I think that they are a beneficial piece to our ecosystem. There is nothing evil or malicious about them in real life. Normally they only show malice when threatened. But unfortunately they are slimy and gross looking and in some occasions insects and reptiles bite people. So people have an aversion to them. Anything that bites you, you naturally become afraid of. It is like the child that touches a hot stove. People are afraid of lions too. But since lions are not slimy and gross looking then people don't have an aversion to them like something that they are both afraid of and repulsed by at the same time. I think this fear and repulsion is most likely what causes people to villify reptiles. Look at alligators. People SHOULD be afraid of them. I met someone who had his arm bitten off by one. It wasn't pretty. If ever there was a reason to dislike reptiles, try having your arm bit off by one. Again, we get to dinosaurs which were also ferocious beasts. There were so many other prehistoric aquatic reptilian sea monsters as well. Really, it is kind of obvious where people get this whole reptile thing from. Dinosaurs, snake and alligator bites, genesis in the bible. All of that stuff is constantly bubbling around in people's heads.

[darketernal]

Okay, so then they use reptiles as villains on the television and movies somewhat frequently. They use bugs quite a bit too. How many b movies have been made about ants, spiders, and other insects. Remember starship troopers? Why do people have such an aversion to insects? Are there insect aliens? How about this one. You know what the number one villain is in movies and television? People. People are the number one enemy.

I think that is because people are most likely creating the chaos and mayhem that we are experiencing today. Just look at human nature. It is completely natural to want to be at the top and be in control. When people work in corporations, their ultimate goal is ladder climbing. They want to be at the top. So we know that is human instinct to want to be the king, the president, the CEO, whatever. But now let's look at horrible acts. Is that human nature? For most, maybe not. But you don't have to be an illuminatus to be a sick person. Look at all the serial killers, rapists, and downright disgusting criminals that have fun at the expense of other people's suffering and they love it. Most people don't do that, but who is to say that more people don't have the potential to do that. Look at children that catch insects, and tear the legs off one by one. Children that put tape on cat's feet and do other cruel bizarre things to animals. Most of them don't grow up to be serial killers. But the potential to get enjoyment from the suffering of others is there. Of course not every child will do these things. But let's say that a man that does that mates with a woman whose father did that. Let's also say that seeking money and power run in the family. They then decide they like these traits, and want their offspring to keep these traits. So they find a few other families that also have these traits. Then these few families only breed with one another. These traits get stronger and stronger while at the same time their genetic stock gets more perverted and grotesque from inbreeding. Pretty soon we have several families that have offspring who only do the evil bidding of their family inheritance.

Don't you think this a pretty good explanation of why our rulers are so twisted and how they keep their goals going through inheritance? I think they are even more evil and twisted then originally intended. At first these people just admired aggressive and domineering family traits. But through inbreeding they have devolved into being totally sick and twisted. If you want a good example of how inbreeding causes this, watch the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That movie is based on a true story here in Texas. It was a family that lived in the hills that inbred so much that they become totally devolved, sick, and twisted beyond belief. Much of their offspring was deformed and retarded as well. The elite have found out that excessive inbreeding causes this as well. So now they refresh the genetics every once in a while to prevent deformities and retardation. But some of the tell tale signs are still there. Look how stupid our current president is here in the states. Look how sick and twisted he is. He is not inbred to the point of deformation and retardation, but he is on his way there genetically speaking. Inbreeding is kind of like pissing in the gene pool. Eventually it becomes quite rancid and foul. The fact that the elite ruling class are obsessed with breeding with each other over and over is well documented. So this explanation seems more likely then them being reptiles.

I actually kind of find it annoying that most people have an aversion to bugs and reptiles. My girlfriend is like that, if she sees a bug she freaks out. I like bugs and I refuse to kill them. When I see a snake, my first impulse is to want to pick it up. Same with lizards. I think that they are a beneficial piece to our ecosystem. There is nothing evil or malicious about them in real life. Normally they only show malice when threatened. But unfortunately they are slimy and gross looking and in some occasions insects and reptiles bite people. So people have an aversion to them. Anything that bites you, you naturally become afraid of. It is like the child that touches a hot stove. People are afraid of lions too. But since lions are not slimy and gross looking then people don't have an aversion to them like something that they are both afraid of and repulsed by at the same time. I think this fear and repulsion is most likely what causes people to villify reptiles. Look at alligators. People SHOULD be afraid of them. I met someone who had his arm bitten off by one. It wasn't pretty. If ever there was a reason to dislike reptiles, try having your arm bit off by one. Again, we get to dinosaurs which were also ferocious beasts. There were so many other prehistoric aquatic reptilian sea monsters as well. Really, it is kind of obvious where people get this whole reptile thing from. Dinosaurs, snake and alligator bites, genesis in the bible. All of that stuff is constantly bubbling around in people's heads.


Dreamscaper, or it could be that this "reptilian thing" has been started by people with experiences, either real of delusional, who in signifigant numbers have talked about their experiences and researchers have picked up on this. Your assumptions are based on the belief that conspiracy researchers have come up with the idea of reptilians because it sounded plausable to them.

[mcthompson2x]

The only way they will fail is if enough humans wake up and reclaim enough of their power to change the consensus reality, and prevent them. They've culled the herd before, but only because the herd chose to be livestock, and my chosing an existance of slavery or livestock one gives the power to their masters to do as they will.

I don't think you have enough faith. They have so much hubris because of their success in the past, but prophecy after prophecy describes their inevitable failure, and if you look around you can see that people are starting to wake up more and more. The worse the state of affairs in this country gets - and it's going to get bad - the more people are going to want to find out why the shit has hit the fan. I personally will not contribute to the energy of the idea that we are helpless and probably going to fail. I really don't think it's possible for us to fail at this point - there are so many people on the planet now that the elitist dominators are vastly outnumbered. I feel like our time has come to finally put them back in their places. Still, I recognize the validity of your opinion entirely.

[darketernal]

I don't think you have enough faith. They have so much hubris because of their success in the past, but prophecy after prophecy describes their inevitable failure, and if you look around you can see that people are starting to wake up more and more. The worse the state of affairs in this country gets - and it's going to get bad - the more people are going to want to find out why the shit has hit the fan. I personally will not contribute to the energy of the idea that we are helpless and probably going to fail. I really don't think it's possible for us to fail at this point - there are so many people on the planet now that the elitist dominators are vastly outnumbered. I feel like our time has come to finally put them back in their places. Still, I recognize the validity of your opinion entirely.

I do not believe in prophecy. I think at this point is purely in the hands of humanity to decide their own fate. Even a few of the "bloodlines" (to use David's terms again) such as myself are breaking our programing and realizing that if we are going to be free ourselves, our fate lies in the hands of the rest of humanity. Humanity has to make a choice and decide, collectively, if it is ready to move on into a more enlightened state and refuse to be cattle, or if it will remain blind to its posibilities and power and continue to give it away to their gods/creators... and be slaughted like cattle again. It comes down to choice... it is that simple.

[dreamscaper555]

Dreamscaper, or it could be that this "reptilian thing" has been started by people with experiences, either real of delusional, who in signifigant numbers have talked about their experiences and researchers have picked up on this. Your assumptions are based on the belief that conspiracy researchers have come up with the idea of reptilians because it sounded plausable to them.

That's what everyone has told me so far. Although I will say that any eye witness accounts are at most only 75% accurate. This has been proven in studies. That is in the best case scenario when someone is taking notes during a witnessed event. But, having said that, 75% of "I saw green, scaly, talking, bipedal reptilian looking creatures would still be green, talking and bipedal right? So if anyone has actually seen them, I would certainly like to hear about it. Although, I would imagine it is one of those things like ufo's that most people will not believe unless they see it themselves. I think that such stories should be thoroughly cross-examined, and if they pass the cross-examination then the event witnessed should be thoroughly investigated. Modern cross-examination has really been refined into an art. A really good cross-examiner can almost always discover a falsehood within a testimony.

So I guess the question then is have you seen them, or know of people who have seen them? Are the testimonies of those who have seen them consistent? Are the stories told complete and do they contain extemporaneous detail?

Please note, I am not trying to be skeptical. Rather I am trying to be investigative. I may consider reading more books on the subject if the subject proves to have merit. But first, I am just trying to find out why other people believe it. I think I may try asking that Leo Zagami guy (ex-illuminati) if he knows anything about reptilians in his forum. I haven't cross-examined him, but his story is very complete, consistent, and contains extemporaneous detail which says something. I will post back here with his reply...

[tim the enchanter]

Please note, I am not trying to be skeptical. Rather I am trying to be investigative. I may consider reading more books on the subject if the subject proves to have merit. But first, I am just trying to find out why other people believe it.

This is highly illogical, to quote Mr. Spock. How can you know the subject has merit if you narrow your field of inquiry to one single facet, without even taking the time to discover anything in detail about what others have to say from their investigations?

But note, I am not saying shapeshifting reptilians possess the visage of our leaders. I am still making up my own mind, in as far as one should completly "make up" one's mind about anything.

[izzy]

I do not believe in prophecy. I think at this point is purely in the hands of humanity to decide their own fate. Even a few of the "bloodlines" (to use David's terms again) such as myself are breaking our programing and realizing that if we are going to be free ourselves, our fate lies in the hands of the rest of humanity. Humanity has to make a choice and decide, collectively, if it is ready to move on into a more enlightened state and refuse to be cattle, or if it will remain blind to its posibilities and power and continue to give it away to their gods/creators... and be slaughted like cattle again. It comes down to choice... it is that simple.

i believe this is true but i also believe that the ptb are making it as hard as possible for people to wake up - they are panicking - and they are increasing petty laws / tightening our belts with false fear over food and petrol [ they have renewable resources out there ] / crashing the housing market etc etc

basically keeping people focused in survival ..

Brainwashing the masses and making them incapable of thinking for themselves ie making them think every man is a paedophile / person is a racist etc etc

if people do not have free minds how can they wake up - when consciousness increases so does all the stuff that has been blocking us for years .. and this needs to be released before we can be fully in our power ..

however the process can be very difficult for many ..

so although the vibrations are rising - and the ptb are panicking - it is not gonna be an easy ride for a few years ..

and what do you mean you are ' bloodline ' just out of curiosity :)

[tim the enchanter]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21941

[darketernal]

and what do you mean you are ' bloodline ' just out of curiosity :)


Izzy put this thread into perspective with other things I've said about my background.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30908

I've seen nightmares and horrors beyond belief... but survived... and survived with my humanity, compassion and love intact. I know what is in my genes... who and what I am... but I've rejected the purpose I was bred and programmed for. I said no to slavery.

[izzy]

Izzy put this thread into perspective with other things I've said about my background.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30908

I've seen nightmares and horrors beyond belief... but survived... and survived with my humanity, compassion and love intact. I know what is in my genes... who and what I am... but I've rejected the purpose I was bred and programmed for. I said no to slavery.


ok i understand now - i thought u were a brit btw not a texan :)

[darketernal]

ok i understand now - i thought u were a brit btw not a texan :)

LoL No I was born and raised in Texas.

[izzy]

bet you have a sexy drawl then .. love southern accents:D

[darketernal]

bet you have a sexy drawl then .. love southern accents:D

I do, but it is not very pronounced. I can change my accent as needed though.

I love British acents myself. My wife laughs because I have the hots for Billie Piper when she was "Rose" on Dr Who, which we get in the US on Sci Fi. French accents are sexy as well.


Hey you distracted me... we got off topic. LoL

[tim the enchanter]

Hey you distracted me... we got off topic. LoL

This'll help:

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7060/glastonbury2004theatredtd9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3529/bakerxt1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[i_am]

Hello dreamscaper555

Many people when first introduced to David Icke have the same reaction as yourself. I can't say that I am one of them as I had read much on these bloodlines before I read anything of David's.

All I can say is keep an open mind. I have an open mind. Anything is possible and our belief or disbelief has little relevance to what is.

This quote from your OP rather amazed me

That's kind of the way I look at mythology. It's just stories. But back then there was no TV or even printing presses for that matter so most stories were told verbally and people pretended they were real kind of like people do with ghost stories. When you sit at the campfire and tell ghost stories, most people have an understanding that they aren't real. But at the same time they pretend that they are because they are more exciting that way. Verbal story telling just works better that way, and is really more fun then a book anyway if the storyteller is any good. So some people probably believed that stuff, but the vast majority knew it was just stories. Kind of like Santa Clause.

Most people have an understanding that are not real??

They do?

Having had many encounters with entities, I can assure they are very real.

Just as many people relate their encounters with reptilian entities, it is something that only those who have experienced them can know for sure. If you have not experienced then nothing is really going to convince you.

[mcthompson2x]

I do not believe in prophecy. I think at this point is purely in the hands of humanity to decide their own fate. Even a few of the "bloodlines" (to use David's terms again) such as myself are breaking our programing and realizing that if we are going to be free ourselves, our fate lies in the hands of the rest of humanity. Humanity has to make a choice and decide, collectively, if it is ready to move on into a more enlightened state and refuse to be cattle, or if it will remain blind to its posibilities and power and continue to give it away to their gods/creators... and be slaughted like cattle again. It comes down to choice... it is that simple.

My problem is that you keep acting as though the salvation of any individual is dependent upon the decision of the collective. It's really not. The suffering of death and pain is nothing to fear because it's only temporary and it doesn't put you anywhere except back to your normal condition, which is one of pure bliss and knowledge. I'm not saying at all that we should sit back and suffer and die because I believe we should fight the violation of our rights to life and liberty, however, I am not going to believe it's all or nothing and that these idiots actually have any true power over any of us, because they don't. Even if they "succeed" in the short term they will fail in the long-term. So, all that we do when we say that they MUST be defeated and that everything rests on our victory over the oppressors, it's like saying there is actually a way for them to win and there isn't. Eventually, it's inevitable - they will self-destruct. Luckily, I think they're going to self-destruct now. If you don't believe in prophecies, then how do you account for people like Edgar Cayce? I know that a prophecy is never set in stone and that it's always a prediction of a potential future, but honestly, to me it seems like there is no way they're going to win and the more we fear them, the stronger they become. We have nothing to fear, they are pathetic.

[noobcybot]

Okay, so then they use reptiles as villains on the television and movies somewhat frequently. They use bugs quite a bit too. How many b movies have been made about ants, spiders, and other insects. Remember starship troopers? Why do people have such an aversion to insects? Are there insect aliens? How about this one. You know what the number one villain is in movies and television? People. People are the number one enemy.

I think that is because people are most likely creating the chaos and mayhem that we are experiencing today. Just look at human nature. It is completely natural to want to be at the top and be in control. When people work in corporations, their ultimate goal is ladder climbing. They want to be at the top. So we know that is human instinct to want to be the king, the president, the CEO, whatever. But now let's look at horrible acts. Is that human nature? For most, maybe not. But you don't have to be an illuminatus to be a sick person. Look at all the serial killers, rapists, and downright disgusting criminals that have fun at the expense of other people's suffering and they love it. Most people don't do that, but who is to say that more people don't have the potential to do that. Look at children that catch insects, and tear the legs off one by one. Children that put tape on cat's feet and do other cruel bizarre things to animals. Most of them don't grow up to be serial killers. But the potential to get enjoyment from the suffering of others is there. Of course not every child will do these things. But let's say that a man that does that mates with a woman whose father did that. Let's also say that seeking money and power run in the family. They then decide they like these traits, and want their offspring to keep these traits. So they find a few other families that also have these traits. Then these few families only breed with one another. These traits get stronger and stronger while at the same time their genetic stock gets more perverted and grotesque from inbreeding. Pretty soon we have several families that have offspring who only do the evil bidding of their family inheritance.

Don't you think this a pretty good explanation of why our rulers are so twisted and how they keep their goals going through inheritance? I think they are even more evil and twisted then originally intended. At first these people just admired aggressive and domineering family traits. But through inbreeding they have devolved into being totally sick and twisted. If you want a good example of how inbreeding causes this, watch the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That movie is based on a true story here in Texas. It was a family that lived in the hills that inbred so much that they become totally devolved, sick, and twisted beyond belief. Much of their offspring was deformed and retarded as well. The elite have found out that excessive inbreeding causes this as well. So now they refresh the genetics every once in a while to prevent deformities and retardation. But some of the tell tale signs are still there. Look how stupid our current president is here in the states. Look how sick and twisted he is. He is not inbred to the point of deformation and retardation, but he is on his way there genetically speaking. Inbreeding is kind of like pissing in the gene pool. Eventually it becomes quite rancid and foul. The fact that the elite ruling class are obsessed with breeding with each other over and over is well documented. So this explanation seems more likely then them being reptiles.

I actually kind of find it annoying that most people have an aversion to bugs and reptiles. My girlfriend is like that, if she sees a bug she freaks out. I like bugs and I refuse to kill them. When I see a snake, my first impulse is to want to pick it up. Same with lizards. I think that they are a beneficial piece to our ecosystem. There is nothing evil or malicious about them in real life. Normally they only show malice when threatened. But unfortunately they are slimy and gross looking and in some occasions insects and reptiles bite people. So people have an aversion to them. Anything that bites you, you naturally become afraid of. It is like the child that touches a hot stove. People are afraid of lions too. But since lions are not slimy and gross looking then people don't have an aversion to them like something that they are both afraid of and repulsed by at the same time. I think this fear and repulsion is most likely what causes people to villify reptiles. Look at alligators. People SHOULD be afraid of them. I met someone who had his arm bitten off by one. It wasn't pretty. If ever there was a reason to dislike reptiles, try having your arm bit off by one. Again, we get to dinosaurs which were also ferocious beasts. There were so many other prehistoric aquatic reptilian sea monsters as well. Really, it is kind of obvious where people get this whole reptile thing from. Dinosaurs, snake and alligator bites, genesis in the bible. All of that stuff is constantly bubbling around in people's heads.

I am well aware of the psychology of fear behind creatures that differ largely from the human form, and also aversions brought about by fear of posioning and so one. I know bugs are sometimes the badguys but more often than not it is reptilians and the thing about these media sources is that the ones with reptilains also have all the other piece of the puzzle at the same time. So why in super mario, does it have pyramids, alternate realities, mind altering drugs, touching the satrs, checkered floorboards..........and a reptilian overlord.
I dont really think George Bush is stupid....unless he has had a labotomy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw4Bhmm22xo

Dream, you seem to see most of this topic clearly, yet you still arent convinced by the real world reptilian thing. How can you believe all of that and then when the reptilian bit comes up you hit a wall?
Reps are the ones that tie it all together.


http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/97/47/23304797.jpg

[dreamscaper555]

Hello dreamscaper555

Many people when first introduced to David Icke have the same reaction as yourself. I can't say that I am one of them as I had read much on these bloodlines before I read anything of David's.

All I can say is keep an open mind. I have an open mind. Anything is possible and our belief or disbelief has little relevance to what is.

This quote from your OP rather amazed me



Most people have an understanding that are not real??

They do?

Having had many encounters with entities, I can assure they are very real.

Just as many people relate their encounters with reptilian entities, it is something that only those who have experienced them can know for sure. If you have not experienced then nothing is really going to convince you.

What I meant when you quoted me was that most people know that the ghost stories are not real. Not ghosts themselves. And not even necessarily ghost stories, scary stories told in the dark around campfire.

I am sure that ghosts probably exist. I am sure reptilians probably exist too to some degree whether here or somewhere else in our vast universe. I don't know that there is anything that does not exist, whether somoeone has seen it or not. I am sure that there are many things that not a single person on this whole entire planet has seen that do indeed exist. No one has seen any non-black ravens. Does that mean that there are none? Of course not. What I am trying to ascertain is whether or not our world is run by "reptilians", and whether or not they disguise themselves as our leaders. That seems a little far fetched even for me (and I believe in just about everything).

I could in fact be convinced without having seen one myself though. If someone else has seen one, I could thoroughly cross-examine them and if they passed my cross-examination then I would be convinced that the information was accurate. Also there are devices that scientologists use called "e-machines" that in the hands of a skilled "auditor" can tell the difference between truth and fiction incredibly accurately.

Also,I do not believe in "figments of the imagination". Although I believe that the imagination could possibly produce figments, it is not something that it does except under extremely rare circumstances and in fact these "figments" are actually perceptions of that which is not normally perceptible in this dimension. This could be fluke crossovers (that is how I explain UFO's) or it could be a person who uses parts of their brain/endocrine system to perceive these things. These people are typically labeled as "skitzophreniks" and shoved in a mental ward. If you study the cases of these people you find that they constantly have bizarre stories that don't make any logical sense and paranoid seeming delusions of total misinformation. Well they don't make it up themselves. There are actually get all of this misinfo from entities in another realm who are all chronic liars. I have experienced this myself, but was lucky enough to have the luxury of being able to shut it off. Those poor folks in the mental wards can't do that. It is actually extra sensory perception in the form of a curse. Had I not temporarily experienced THAT myself I probably would still believe they are nuts myself. Now I don't think anybody is nuts. Well, at least the vast majority of people aren't. Our so called "leaders" that massacre millions. THEY ARE NUTS!

I later discovered that Buddhism has documented this that skitzophreniks are actually possessed by those they call "the jealous Gods", and possession is a good way to describe it. In my experience, possession is their aim. Only the strong minded can resist. If they can't completely take motor control then they move on to plan B which is manipulating you psychologically. I tell you, there is a really good reason why there are certain dimensions that are imperceptible to human beings. And anyone trying the sleep deprivation, near death experiences, or ayahuasca should remember that. That is why there are such organizations (call them religions if you like) such as the Santo Daimes. If you are a Santo Daime, you are protected from the malicious entities. When the human race finally decides to start exploring this vast new horizon, I believe that we are going to have to form groups such as this and come up with tactics to protect one another.

[dreamscaper555]

I am well aware of the psychology of fear behind creatures that differ largely from the human form, and also aversions brought about by fear of posioning and so one. I know bugs are sometimes the badguys but more often than not it is reptilians and the thing about these media sources is that the ones with reptilains also have all the other piece of the puzzle at the same time. So why in super mario, does it have pyramids, alternate realities, mind altering drugs, touching the satrs, checkered floorboards..........and a reptilian overlord.
I dont really think George Bush is stupid....unless he has had a labotomy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw4Bhmm22xo

Dream, you seem to see most of this topic clearly, yet you still arent convinced by the real world reptilian thing. How can you believe all of that and then when the reptilian bit comes up you hit a wall?
Reps are the ones that tie it all together.


http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/97/47/23304797.jpg

I love that last quote from the video! "Too many doctors are going out of business. Too many gynocologists can't practice their love with women all across the country" That is one of my favorite Bush quotes. I was actually aware that he was more articulate in his years as governor in Texas. But I think that whatever degenerative disease he has is probably due to inbreeding. I doubt he is faking it, he has nothing to gain from that. If you notice he talks about expanding TYC (the kiddie pen here in Texas) and all of that in the video. Well he did, and Texas has the highest percentage of population in prison out of any other state. It's really disgusting. They all make money off it here too. I still think that is part of the plan that people overlook. They plan to put a large portion of the population in prisons where they can't fight the good fight anymore. Forced labor. That is where it is at. And believe me, you don't have to do much for them to throw the book at you here in Texas. But they let the really bad criminals go on parol to "make more space". Yeah they mean more space for people caught with drugs that government agents sold to them or who don't pay their taxes or whatever. The violent criminals get released to keep people in fear. Besides, they need them for the military and police state. Good old expendable hard criminals to terrorize the population. And when they are done with them, they can just dispose of them like Hitler did with the S.A.

I still just don't see how the reptiles tie it together though. How do you go from Mario Brothers and ancient mythology to reptiles own and control the planet? That is a pretty lofty assertion. And if Mario Brothers and mythology are the best that there is in the way of evidence I guess I just don't get it. I know that there are eye witness accounts of seeing these reptilians as well, but even if they do exist on some level how would anyone be able to say they own and control the planet based on that? I still think that world leaders being possessed and/or influenced by evil spirits makes more sense. Everybody here keeps telling me that reptilians aren't in physical existence, but then where does shape shifting come in, and how could they be in the guise of leaders if they don't physically exist?

That staff you have pictured BTW is not the symbol for healing. It is in fact the caduceus of Hermes the Greek messenger God. The real symbol for medical healing is the Asclepius staff which has only one snake around it and no wings. Here is an interesting article on that:

http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html

[element]

I still just don't see how the reptiles tie it together though. How do you go from Mario Brothers and ancient mythology to reptiles own and control the planet? That is a pretty lofty assertion. And if Mario Brothers and mythology are the best that there is in the way of evidence I guess I just don't get it. I know that there are eye witness accounts of seeing these reptilians as well, but even if they do exist on some level how would anyone be able to say they own and control the planet based on that? I still think that world leaders being possessed and/or influenced by evil spirits makes more sense. Everybody here keeps telling me that reptilians aren't in physical existence, but then where does shape shifting come in, and how could they be in the guise of leaders if they don't physically exist?


I agree with you. You know many snake symbolism get used to advocate the idea of reptilians, but most have no real idea what all the snakes mean. Ancient connections are out of the picture, if you ask me. Still, there's a good possibility there are reptilians. But yeah if they control everything, it's the same with the whole grand conspiracy, one wonders why we live longer then back in time and are with more. And that's just the tip of an iceberg of questions, conspiracy theorists just can't explain..

[noobcybot]

I am not really sold on that link Dream, it says in one part the use of serpant symbolism in those times comes from ancient esoteric sources one minute and then a mundane contrived reason the next. Again you havent explained how you can believe in most of the subject but not reptilians. Again, I was just choosing Mario Bros as an example there are literally thousands more. Please could you explain why all the symbols of esoterica come up........aswell as evil reptilians.

What would it take for you to believe in reptilians?

Fossils?

http://conspiracyrealitytv.com/starchild-alien-skull-video-evidence/

Art?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewshk_vjCKA

Biology?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_brain

[noobcybot]

Converging Photographic and Video Evidence?

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~kate45/mypic30.jpg

http://www.stargods.org/ClintonShapeShiftBush.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epgooeTt7Bk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj8741m2jLc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07saol9YJ-s&NR=1

[darketernal]

I agree with you. You know many snake symbolism get used to advocate the idea of reptilians, but most have no real idea what all the snakes mean. Ancient connections are out of the picture, if you ask me. Still, there's a good possibility there are reptilians. But yeah if they control everything, it's the same with the whole grand conspiracy, one wonders why we live longer then back in time and are with more. And that's just the tip of an iceberg of questions, conspiracy theorists just can't explain..


Does the inability to answer all of the potential questions make something no true? How do you know humans live longer now than 10,000 years ago? Did you do a census in 8000 bc in a previous life which you retained the memory of in this incarnation? The next question would be, what is the relevance of this question? Does the sky being blue also make us question this idea? I mean the sky is blue during the daytime and I have a real problem believing reptilians could be the dominant life form on a planet with a blue sky.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of the reality of the reptilian thing, however to date 90% of the arguments and questions I've seen, I cannot for the life of me figure out what the connection is between the questions being asked, and the perceived answers conflicting with the idea of the reptilians.

[tim the enchanter]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of the reality of the reptilian thing, however to date 90% of the arguments and questions I've seen, I cannot for the life of me figure out what the connection is between the questions being asked, and the perceived answers conflicting with the idea of the reptilians.

Ditto. :)

[mcthompson2x]

Originally Posted by element View Post
I agree with you. You know many snake symbolism get used to advocate the idea of reptilians, but most have no real idea what all the snakes mean. Ancient connections are out of the picture, if you ask me. Still, there's a good possibility there are reptilians. But yeah if they control everything, it's the same with the whole grand conspiracy, one wonders why we live longer then back in time and are with more. And that's just the tip of an iceberg of questions, conspiracy theorists just can't explain..

I think we have been presented with a highly dubious view of our true history. We don't really have more and we are on an increasingly fast path to self-destruction. Also, our health as a whole is getting worse and worse and that's hard to deny - just look at the shit they put in our foods. It's on the ingredients list, for all to see.

[darketernal]

Originally Posted by element View Post
I agree with you. You know many snake symbolism get used to advocate the idea of reptilians, but most have no real idea what all the snakes mean. Ancient connections are out of the picture, if you ask me. Still, there's a good possibility there are reptilians. But yeah if they control everything, it's the same with the whole grand conspiracy, one wonders why we live longer then back in time and are with more. And that's just the tip of an iceberg of questions, conspiracy theorists just can't explain..

I think we have been presented with a highly dubious view of our true history. We don't really have more and we are on an increasingly fast path to self-destruction. Also, our health as a whole is getting worse and worse and that's hard to deny - just look at the shit they put in our foods. It's on the ingredients list, for all to see.

This man speaks truth on this.

[element]

Does the inability to answer all of the potential questions make something no true? How do you know humans live longer now than 10,000 years ago? Did you do a census in 8000 bc in a previous life which you retained the memory of in this incarnation? The next question would be, what is the relevance of this question? Does the sky being blue also make us question this idea? I mean the sky is blue during the daytime and I have a real problem believing reptilians could be the dominant life form on a planet with a blue sky.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of the reality of the reptilian thing, however to date 90% of the arguments and questions I've seen, I cannot for the life of me figure out what the connection is between the questions being asked, and the perceived answers conflicting with the idea of the reptilians.

I'll say this again: I don't rule reptilians out! Some believe every depiction of a snake is a reptilian. Those snakes in combo with eagles/vultures are spiritual symbols, same as bible and other books are spiritual symbols.

And what's all this about the sky? If reptilians have their own ''shaped'' planet, what sky color would they have?

[tim the enchanter]

I'll say this again: I don't rule reptilians out! Some believe every depiction of a snake is a reptilian. Those snakes in combo with eagles/vultures are spiritual symbols, same as bible and other books are spiritual symbols.

No one's arguing that serpent/reptile symbology can't be used in a positive sense.

[noobcybot]

[QUOTE=element;429430]I'll say this again: I don't rule reptilians out! Some believe every depiction of a snake is a reptilian. Those snakes in combo with eagles/vultures are spiritual symbols, same as bible and other books are spiritual symbols.[QUOTE]

Why are they spiritual symbols though Element? When I hear of the Mayan Quezactol (hope thats spelled right) being half-bird half-reptile and it following the story of Jesus and Horus etc... I start to think about gods as in the creators of man being reptilian. I guess I could do with a little research. I mean I see how the Ourobus symbol using snake imagary could easily have been entirely man made, but there is still this link with esoteric knowledge and the brotherhood of the snake.

[mcthompson2x]

I think we get hung up on whether or not Reptilians exist in the physical realm when it doesn't change a whole lot about how we can deal with them. They must be dealt with on a spiritual level and if they actually turn out to be commanding a physical presence in our world, then we can't act on it until we have some sort of confirmation. It just creates division to argue over tiny little points when the real problem is that there are people who are manipulating and controlling our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers. The real way that we're going to fight them is by exposing the method of control, RETROACTIVELY doing so (showing how 9/11 was a false-flag attack and how another one was planned long ago), and helping all of those we Love - which should be every person we lay on eyes - to Awaken to the truth that we have nothing to fear. If we must fight on a physical front then we will do should the time come, but until then, this is intellectual warfare, and I do see where people might have problems explaining the presence of physical Reptilians that have lived underground for thousands of years. It's kind of one of those things where you can understand it and believe or not, but thankfully, it's not the most important part of our argument by a long-shot. It's really just a technicality because evil is as evil does, and it must be stopped despite whatever sort of pupils it's proxies may have.

[darketernal]

I'll say this again: I don't rule reptilians out! Some believe every depiction of a snake is a reptilian. Those snakes in combo with eagles/vultures are spiritual symbols, same as bible and other books are spiritual symbols.

And what's all this about the sky? If reptilians have their own ''shaped'' planet, what sky color would they have?


Element that is exactally the point I was making. The question you asked, like most questions people ask who say "Well if these reptilians are realy what about [insert question here]", seemed to have zero connection or relevance to the issue of they reptilians are real and if they run our planet. Is there some connection between the lifespan of humans and species that controls them?

[amethyst]

The reptillians are discerned in the spiritual rhealm. That's why generally, you are not going to see one walking down the street.

Or in a tv commercial with Naomi Campbell.;)

[darketernal]

I think we get hung up on whether or not Reptilians exist in the physical realm when it doesn't change a whole lot about how we can deal with them. They must be dealt with on a spiritual level and if they actually turn out to be commanding a physical presence in our world, then we can't act on it until we have some sort of confirmation. It just creates division to argue over tiny little points when the real problem is that there are people who are manipulating and controlling our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers. The real way that we're going to fight them is by exposing the method of control, RETROACTIVELY doing so (showing how 9/11 was a false-flag attack and how another one was planned long ago), and helping all of those we Love - which should be every person we lay on eyes - to Awaken to the truth that we have nothing to fear. If we must fight on a physical front then we will do should the time come, but until then, this is intellectual warfare, and I do see where people might have problems explaining the presence of physical Reptilians that have lived underground for thousands of years. It's kind of one of those things where you can understand it and believe or not, but thankfully, it's not the most important part of our argument by a long-shot. It's really just a technicality because evil is as evil does, and it must be stopped despite whatever sort of pupils it's proxies may have.

We are in agreement. I do believe they are physically here, indiginous to earth, and have underground cities, however you are right in the fact that humanity cannot win this in a physical confrontation. They control your leaders, have vast technology... even if it came down to hand to hand combat with them. One verse one, they are stronger faster and more adapt warriors than the averag human solider. Due to humans not honing their psychic abilites, compaired to humans they are high telepathic and precognative. They will know you are about to shoot/attack/strike, before you do it and react accordingly. This can only be won by a change in the mindset of humanity.

Where you and I disagree is on the amount of humanity that must wake up and change things. We create our reality around us, however so is everyone else. The beliefs and vibrations of everyone around you, will effect the change a few individuals can make.

[noobcybot]

Hey Dark, do you think that humans and reptilians have fought in modern times? Do you think the Dulce wars ever took place?

[mcthompson2x]

We are in agreement. I do believe they are physically here, indiginous to earth, and have underground cities, however you are right in the fact that humanity cannot win this in a physical confrontation. They control your leaders, have vast technology... even if it came down to hand to hand combat with them. One verse one, they are stronger faster and more adapt warriors than the averag human solider. Due to humans not honing their psychic abilites, compaired to humans they are high telepathic and precognative. They will know you are about to shoot/attack/strike, before you do it and react accordingly. This can only be won by a change in the mindset of humanity.

Where you and I disagree is on the amount of humanity that must wake up and change things. We create our reality around us, however so is everyone else. The beliefs and vibrations of everyone around you, will effect the change a few individuals can make.

We don't disagree at all, I just think that we approach the same ideas from different perspectives. While I do agree that if humanity is going to be saved, a larger number of people must be awakened (and I have full faith that this will happen), I refuse to believe that I need to worry about it and be afraid of what will happen otherwise. Even if our planet explodes and we all die there is nothing to be upset about or worry over because we are all immortal souls and our seeds will manifest elsewhere, and we will have to learn our lessons all over again - although individuals can always choose to move along or move backward at any given pace. So, while I agree that more people need to wake up, I refuse to fret over it or allow any negative energy to root inside my head. I am the master of my own reality and no one on the face of the planet can take that away from me, and I refuse to despair under any circumstance. I have faith that my positive attitude and refusal to despair is part of the mindset that is going to help bring about this change. When we fear or worry, we give energy over to those who wish to take it from us.

Coincidentally, I also agree with you about the Reptilians being here physically, and existing underground physically. It makes vast amounts of sense to me when I tie together ancient religions and modern day "myths."

[darketernal]

Hey Dark, do you think that humans and reptilians have fought in modern times? Do you think the Dulce wars ever took place?

I've never heard anything on this, or looked into it myself. This does not mean it is not true of course. Keep in mind, as I say often, people on the inside of the system are kept ignorant of many things. They are only told what they need to be told to complete their part.

[dreamscaper555]

I think we get hung up on whether or not Reptilians exist in the physical realm when it doesn't change a whole lot about how we can deal with them. They must be dealt with on a spiritual level and if they actually turn out to be commanding a physical presence in our world, then we can't act on it until we have some sort of confirmation. It just creates division to argue over tiny little points when the real problem is that there are people who are manipulating and controlling our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers. The real way that we're going to fight them is by exposing the method of control, RETROACTIVELY doing so (showing how 9/11 was a false-flag attack and how another one was planned long ago), and helping all of those we Love - which should be every person we lay on eyes - to Awaken to the truth that we have nothing to fear. If we must fight on a physical front then we will do should the time come, but until then, this is intellectual warfare, and I do see where people might have problems explaining the presence of physical Reptilians that have lived underground for thousands of years. It's kind of one of those things where you can understand it and believe or not, but thankfully, it's not the most important part of our argument by a long-shot. It's really just a technicality because evil is as evil does, and it must be stopped despite whatever sort of pupils it's proxies may have.

I will have to disagree on that point. If they do not exist on the physical realm, then we need to change our strategy (something I think ought to be done anyway). I just think that if Icke thinks that there are lizards then that is fine, to each his own. But unless he has some sort of conclusive proof, he ought to keep all that to himself and talk about the rest of it.

If he hadn't been talking about reptiles this whole time, he would've woken up at least twice as many people. Here in the states Alex Jones is the main person at the front lines exposing the new world order. And he has had massive success due to his significant advantage over Icke. A conspiracy of bankers and occultists just sounds a lot more believable then a conspiracy of extraterrestrial lizards controlling the planet.

I was listening to the Alex Jones show the other day, and evidently the 911 truth movement finally got some positive recognition in a mainstream media news source. It was some major European newspaper (I can't remember the name). But the article stated this. I guess another reporter from that same newspaper printed some article about the psychology behind people who think 911 is a conspiracy and he basically went on to say that people's minds create that scenarios because they can't deal with what really happened. Well this reporter actually looked at the evidence (which is quite overwhelmingly against the official fairy tale) and noted that it was very convincing and went on about the psychology of people like that other reporter that just deny everything that isn't officially backed by the government and refuse to actually investigate it themselves. He then goes on to say that not all of these conspiracy buffs are like those ewho talk of reptiles and rediculous things, and in fact, some of them have good evidence to back what they say.

That guy basically proves my point that the reptiles are like a wrench in the gears of the movement. If in fact what you say is true, and we have to attack this in the same way, then the prudent thing to do would be drop the whole reptile thing and just tell people the more believable parts that are easy to swallow. After all, we really just want people to wake up, right? More will wake up if the truth you want them to wake up to does not include extraterrestrial reptiles.

The other thing about this is most of the evidence comes from conjecture about certain artifacts, and historical tablets and documents and such. Well there is this guy called Freeman who resides here in Texas that comes to similar conclusions as Icke, only he believes that it was fish aliens from the constellation sirius who run the planet. Having seen this I was like hmmmmm. He makes just as convincing of a case. So are they fish or reptiles? It really is open to interpretation which is the problem with basing something off archaeology. It really is just whatever you make out of it. So certain things in the truth movement really ought to be considered opinion. When something is an opinion, and especially a controversial one such as this, then don't you think that ought to be kept to one's self for the sake of truth?

[darketernal]

The other thing about this is most of the evidence comes from conjecture about certain artifacts, and historical tablets and documents and such. Well there is this guy called Freeman who resides here in Texas that comes to similar conclusions as Icke, only he believes that it was fish aliens from the constellation sirius who run the planet. Having seen this I was like hmmmmm. He makes just as convincing of a case. So are they fish or reptiles? It really is open to interpretation which is the problem with basing something off archaeology. It really is just whatever you make out of it. So certain things in the truth movement really ought to be considered opinion. When something is an opinion, and especially a controversial one such as this, then don't you think that ought to be kept to one's self for the sake of truth?

If one absolutely believes this to be true, would their keeping it to themselves in their lectures for the purpose of making their argument more convincing be the oppost of doing it for the sake of truth? That would suppression of information for the purpose of an agenda.

Now that you've expressed what you think, I'll express what I think. I think you should go back to listening ot Alex Jones then if that is where you feel yourself drawn and stop telling everyong that David Icke should shutup about the reptilians. I don't see anyone else who knows about the subject with enough balls to get up and talk about it in front of people, and there are a hell of a lot of us who don't speak out who know about it.

[sebastian]

I don't think that anyone should bring you evidence or try to prove you.

I believe that YOU should take a look at all the evidence and material on reptilians.

If it doesn't resonate to you maybe it wasn't meant to be.

Check out my threads on reptilians in the Reptilian section of course ;)

[shenoma]

How do I know they are real? Because I have been one in the past lives, and can talk to them or anyone else in the universe because it is all connected, thank you.

[tim the enchanter]

I've never heard anything on this, or looked into it myself. This does not mean it is not true of course. Keep in mind, as I say often, people on the inside of the system are kept ignorant of many things. They are only told what they need to be told to complete their part.

"The lie is different at every level!" - Richard C. Hoagland

[tim the enchanter]

Where you and I disagree is on the amount of humanity that must wake up and change things. We create our reality around us, however so is everyone else. The beliefs and vibrations of everyone around you, will effect the change a few individuals can make.

What do you believe might happen over the next few years regarding this The Matrix like dialectic?

[tim the enchanter]

I don't think that anyone should bring you evidence or try to prove you.

I believe that YOU should take a look at all the evidence and material on reptilians.


If it doesn't resonate to you maybe it wasn't meant to be.

Check out my threads on reptilians in the Reptilian section of course ;)

Of course, but when you have people on these threads who think that this whole thing sarts and ends with Icke, you know, "Icke's blood drinking reptiles from Mars" (completely forgetting that he sourced it from fellow authors as well as witnesess) well sir, it's enough to make me start an "Authors" thread (which one can locate in the "sticky" section of the Reptilian forum ;))

[sebastian]

Of course, but when you have people on these threads who think that this whole thing sarts and ends with Icke, you know, "Icke's blood drinking reptiles from Mars" (completely forgetting that he sourced it from fellow authors as well as witnesess) well sir, it's enough to make me start an "Authors" thread (which one can locate in the "sticky" section of the Reptilian forum ;))

It's funny ...everyone agrrees with Icke but only on issues they feel confo0rtable with.

It's like I tried to explain someone about the current state of afairs...it was all good, corruption...check....power greedy break all rules fanatics..etc

Then I tried a little bigger picture :

The Royals are shapeshifting reptilians who get high on raping/murdering kids ....

Neeedless to say I got laughed at...

It's about perspective, it's about seeing and understanding the bigger picture, understanding how it all ties together....and frankly , David Icke isone of the very few that can articulate all this oh so well.

[tim the enchanter]

I don't usualy just come out with "the royals are blood drinking shapeshifting reptiles", rather, I'd raise questions about ancient history, throw around ideas pertaining to the possabilities of an intergalactic cargo cult on earth being responisible for some of our mysterious origins. Things like that. I ask people if they've ever read I Am Legend by Richard Matheson, and maybe if there's any truth in it? Seen any smart UFOs lately miss? Husband can't account for the missing time and love bites is it?

Basically, I segue into the thing, more often than not.

[mcthompson2x]

If one absolutely believes this to be true, would their keeping it to themselves in their lectures for the purpose of making their argument more convincing be the oppost of doing it for the sake of truth? That would suppression of information for the purpose of an agenda.

Now that you've expressed what you think, I'll express what I think. I think you should go back to listening ot Alex Jones then if that is where you feel yourself drawn and stop telling everyong that David Icke should shutup about the reptilians. I don't see anyone else who knows about the subject with enough balls to get up and talk about it in front of people, and there are a hell of a lot of us who don't speak out who know about it.

Exactly. No person should be controlled and no one should be told that for the sake of something else, they need to suppress the truth. It is just a universal law that suppression leads to negative consequences. What David says is obviously ringing true in the hearts of many, many people.

Also, most people thing from the completely wrong perspective - David doesn't have to prove anything to you. All he has to do is put out what he believes the truth is, and if you are interested or think there is a possibility - or if you are responsible, and want to maximize your knowledge - then you will investigate it yourself. No one owes anyone anything else - we don't have to prove anything. The truth is what the truth is, and if we're wrong, we're wrong. Vice versa. The truth does not come down to a consensus, and just because you can't bring yourself to believe it because you haven't seen enough evidence is not evidence in and of itself of your being correct. The only way you'll ever know is if you find out for yourself.

[amethyst]

It's funny ...everyone agrrees with Icke but only on issues they feel confo0rtable with.

It's like I tried to explain someone about the current state of afairs...it was all good, corruption...check....power greedy break all rules fanatics..etc

Then I tried a little bigger picture :

The Royals are shapeshifting reptilians who get high on raping/murdering kids ....

Neeedless to say I got laughed at...

It's about perspective, it's about seeing and understanding the bigger picture, understanding how it all ties together....and frankly , David Icke isone of the very few that can articulate all this oh so well.

That's true.

[legendary]

maybe it's because it all makes sense up to the point about the reptilians try suggest the possibility our government have communicated with an alien race or are covering up their existence and you'll receive a much more positive response i'm sure

[sebastian]

pay attention !!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are not communicating....the Government IS ALIEN ! bIG PICTURE


Alien Affiliations of Current Governors
thru Peter Farley
Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:51 am (PST)

Current Governor State Party Alien Affiliation/ Reptilian? SeatUp

Bob Riley Alabama Republican Orion (shapeshifter) 2010 (term limits)

Sarah Palin Alaska Republican Orion (shapeshifter) 2010

Janet Napolitano Arizona Democratic Orion (shapeshifter) 2010 (term limits)

Mike Beebe Arkansas Democratic Reptilian (dark agenda) 2010

Arnold Schwarzenegger California Republican (From Kochab –central planet of darkness) 2010 (term limits)

Bill Ritter Colorado Democratic Reptilian 2010

M. Jodi Rell Connecticut Republican Sirian reptilian 2010

Ruth Ann Minner Delaware Democratic Other (negative agenda) 2008 (term limits)

Charlie Crist Florida Republican Dark, dark Orion 2010

Sonny Perdue Georgia Republican Ciakar (winged reptilian --Orion origin) 2010 (term limits)

Linda Lingle Hawaii Republican Human (reptilian wannabe) 2010 (term limits)

Butch Otter Idaho Republican Other 2010

Rod Blagojevich Illinois Democratic Human (other agenda) 2010

Mitch Daniels Indiana Republican Orion (dark leader) 2008

Chet Culver Iowa Democratic Sirian (dark leader) 2010

Kathleen Sebelius Kansas Democratic Ciakar (winged reptilian –Orion origin) 2010 (term limits)

Ernie Fletcher Kentucky Republican Reptilian (other origin) 2007

Kathleen Blanco Louisiana Democratic Orion (shapeshifter) 2007

John Baldacci Maine Democratic Dark, dark Orion leader 2010 (term limits)

Martin O'Malley Maryland Democratic Reptilian (first-class) 2010

Deval Patrick Massachusetts Democratic Human (dark agenda) 2010

Jennifer Granholm Michigan Democratic Arcturian (fence-sitter) 2010 (term limits)

Tim Pawlenty Minnesota Republican Human (questionable agenda) 2010

Haley Barbour Mississippi Republican Kochab (planet of darkness) 2007

Matt Blunt Missouri Republican Kochab (planet of darkness – front runner)2008

Brian Schweitzer Montana Democratic Other (reptilian wannabe) 2008

Dave Heineman Nebraska Republican Human (doubtful agenda) 2010

Jim Gibbons Nevada Republican Nasty reptilian (Sirian origin) 2010

John Lynch New Hampshire Democratic Artificial intelligence/A.I. 2008

Jon Corzine New Jersey Democratic Reptilian ( Low level follower) 2009

Bill Richardson New Mexico Democratic Reptilian (Other origin) 2010 (term limits)

Eliot Spitzer New York Democratic Reptilian (Kochab affiliations) 2010

Mike Easley North Carolina Democratic Reptilian 2008 (term limits)

John Hoeven North Dakota Republican Pleiadean (dark agenda) 2008

Ted Strickland Ohio Democratic Artificial biological entity 2010

Brad Henry Oklahoma Democratic Artificial biological entity 2010 (term limits)

Ted Kulongoski Oregon Democratic Kochab (planet of darkness) 2010

Ed Rendell Pennsylvania Democratic Orion (Shapeshifting leader) 2010 (term limits)

Donald Carcieri Rhode Island Republican Human (dark agenda) 2010 (term limits)

Mark Sanford South Carolina Republican Pleiadean (darker agenda) 2010 (term limits)

Mike Rounds South Dakota Republican Orion (shapeshifter) 2010 (term limits)

Phil Bredesen Tennessee Democratic Artificial Intelligence (A.I) 2010 (term limits)

Rick Perry Texas Republican Dark, dark Orion 2010

Jon Huntsman, Jr. Utah Republican Kochab (planet of darkness) 2008

Jim Douglas Vermont Republican Human (questionable agenda) 2008

Tim Kaine Virginia Democratic Other 2009 (term limits)

Christine Gregoire Washington Democratic Artificial biological entity 2008

Joe Manchin West Virginia Democratic Reptilian (Sirian - lower order) 2008

Jim Doyle Wisconsin Democratic Reptilian (lower order) 2010

Dave Freudenthal Wyoming Democratic Human (doubtful agenda) 2010 (term limits)

[mcthompson2x]

To the poster above me, I'm just wondering where you get your information and whether or not you trust your source... I have no reason to doubt you, but I have no reason to believe you either. My intuition tells me that Reptilians wouldn't assume such high positions of power because anyone who knows they exist can develop the ability to see through to what they really look like, right?

I could be completely wrong, this is just what I think I know so far.

[sebastian]

Wrong ! And anotherthing.... they ARE the authority, always have!

[mcthompson2x]

Wrong ! And anotherthing.... they ARE the authority, always have!

Well I've gotta be honest, that's not convincing enough evidence for me that the individuals you listed are actual, literal Reptilian beings...

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I just asked where you got your information from. I would like to get the same information from the same place, that's all.

[sebastian]

Well I've gotta be honest, that's not convincing enough evidence for me that the individuals you listed are actual, literal Reptilian beings...

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I just asked where you got your information from. I would like to get the same information from the same place, that's all.

I got my info from various sources. I can give you plenty of links. How do I know they are on point ? Easy : I follow my intuition. It's always told me what's right and what's garbage.

And I use another powerful tool : common sense.

I do nod need ten's of thousands of scientific data to be CONVINCED :rolleyes: that 1+1=2

[sebastian]

It always baffles me when someone demands evidence .

You shitting me ?

We are falling from 98th floor and as we are passing the 11th, I'm screaming " we are falling and will hit the ground! " and you are demanding proof that we indeed are mid air, that the ground is bellow, etc....

Wake the fuck up ! ( sorry for the language:))

Open your eyes and look around: the people who want proof are usually the ones who never bother to do the research. If they do and still question, they simply don't get it. Which is ok too.


http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/dragons/imagenes_dragons/dragondescent1.gif

[sebastian]

http://www.wiolawapress.com/davinci.htm

http://www.wiolawapress.com/davinci/davinci_lastsupperets.gif

Here's your reptilian jesus

[sebastian]

Humanity vs. The New World Order
The war between humanity and the New World Order is at least 50,000 years on this planet, longer if you consider that Earth is simply the latest battleground in a Galactic War that has been going on for hundreds of thousands of years. One thing is for certain, however, the first shots of this the final battle in this war have been fired in the form of the chemtrails now being seen in at least most of the First World countries around the planet.

Designed to spread their sickness and disease in order to ?cull? out the weaker members of the human herd?in particular the elderly, the young, and those with an already overloaded immune system, these chemtrails are a flagrant broadside fired against what is left of the freedoms still remaining to humankind.

As people?s attention is increasingly drawn away from the higher goals of life and back to the subsistence level from which they so recently crawled after the last major planetary disaster?the great Biblical Flood of 10,000 years ago, these chemtrails represent a final blow to an already overworked human system that cannot take any more strain after a century of constant war.

Now, as it is forced to work even longer hours for an ever decreasing value in its wages, and having surrendered pretty much all the rest of its rights either to big government or to big business, Mankind?s biggest problem is not so much the slavery into which it has fallen as a species, but rather the fact that it has given away as much of its personal power as it has had stolen.

One of the principal tenets of the propaganda by which Mankind has come to be controlled is that it addresses itself to the individual but acts on the masses. It is here in the mass that we as individuals find ourselves most susceptible to the peer pressure that is only designed to rob us of our freedom.

All modern propaganda profits from the structure of the mass, for it is in the mass that one can exploit the individual?s need for self-affirmation, both individually and in wanting to be a member of the group. This is the situation known as the ?lonely crowd.? It is the most favorable moment to seize a man and influence him?when he is alone in the masses. And the bigger and more homogenous the mass the better. This desire to be a part of something bigger goes to the very depth?s of the human Soul where we are all part of one big Soul rather than being each an individual soul. We therefore hone in on this beehive-like cluster mentality the New World Order has prepared as a trap for us.

Like a sweet honey fly-trap, the mass becomes not our savior but our executioner. Population growth is therefore not only allowed, but even covertly rewarded as long as its makeup can be controlled. Notice how many religions and politicians tacitly strive for larger and larger birthrates and rage against any form of birth control.

The next step is to herd the population together, concentrate them all in the urban areas where the psychological and sociological characteristics of the mass can most easily be manipulated?or failing manipulation?be dealt with in the most extreme of manners, such as the chemtrails.

Here, in this lonely urban mass, man will also be most susceptible to control through the fear spread by the appearance of yet unrecognizable technology such as the massive V-shaped aircraft (UFO) seen over Phoenix in the well-documented case of the ?Phoenix lights?. Missing or unwanted children, kidnapped and then programmed as they grow to adulthood, trained as unsympathetic drones, will then walk among this mass metering out summary judgement more swift and more harsh than any metered out by Cold-War commissars.

Those among the masses already balking at their fellow man?s mindless obedience to unbending Rules will be the first to go. The scientists, the intellectuals, the religionists, and the political favorites who are already used to following a ?party line? will have no trouble blending in to this New World Order run by the Graymen of conspiracy theory. Like a flashback to the 70s and the TV series ?V??they will all fall in line as the changes begin to take place in earnest. They will be backed by the advanced crowd-control technology of their acknowledged masters?the aliens who have controlled the planet on and off for millennia?in particular the Men in Black from Orion, the old time Black Sorcerer Kings of Atlantis. These aliens are only pawns themselves in an even bigger battle taking place at the present time in the Universe, the battle between the forces of Darkness led by Lucifer and his minions, and the Forces of Light working for the ultimate Creator.

The astute viewer will have noticed the frequency with which one particular saying keeps reappearing in recent movies such as The Usual Suspects or The End of Days (along with sundry others) as a wake-up call to us all: ?The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was to convince Man that He didn?t really exist.? Unfortunately for all of us, He does, and not just in the mind of some pulpit-pounding preacher or some deluded homeless person walking the streets shouting out things about the end of the world.

While movies such as The X-Files: Fight the Future correctly hint at the true alien-New World Order connection, one must ultimately look more deeply to the recent rash of supernatural thrillers crowding the screens at the local mall to find the ultimate source of the Darkness now trying to crowd out any and all Light on the planet and steal what is left of our free will. it is no accident that our children and teenagers are being led to dabble in witchcraft and other darker supernatural pursuits under the guise of harmless entertainment.

Perhaps the simplest and easiest expression of this whole New World Order scenario, however, is found in that classic of both adult and children?s literature alike, Madeleine L?Engle?s A Wrinkle in Time.

Searching for their kidnapped scientist father, three children take on the Ultimate Darkness as it slowly but surely swallows up whole galaxies and heads towards Earth in its final quest to take over control of the Universe. The sole weapons these children carry with them are their youthful innocence and the love they share for each other, for their parents, and ultimately for all Mankind.

This wonderfully simple delineation of the battle now taking place both on our planet, and indeed in this entire quarantined corner of the Universe, provides a lesson for us all, as well as a very handy tool with which to begin reclaiming our the pieces of our lost humanity?Love. While it might seem like a trite word in these days when it is used so often but rarely ever meant, Love can also be the ultimate weapon to use against the New World Order in the very difficult years that now confront us.

Perhaps the most painful aspect of this whole long drawn-out process involved with this takeover of the world by the New World Order is not the ease with which it has been accomplished?Mankind falling easily into slavery, but rather the fact that we have all sacrificed our own personal power to make the New World Order?s task so much simpler.

Pandemic in Mankind since its genetic manipulation by the Annunaki more than 40,000 years ago is the ?slave mentality?-an inherent sense of low self-esteem and low self-worth. As Zecharia Sitchin points out in his translation of the ancient Sumerian texts, God is a relatively new word in the human language?the word our alien ?gods? were most commonly referred to by was the word ?lord.?

The ?Lord and Master?/?peasant and slave? relationship has continued over all these thousands of years?both between us and those aliens adopted by our religions as their gods, and between us and the surrogate masters these absentee landlords left in their stead?the power elite?manifested in the various forms of Freemasonry and other secret societies which form only a part of the hydra-headed New World Order.

That the Darkness thrives on fear is a well known fact among those with any kind of eyes to see into the true nature of the Cosmos. The chief product of low self-esteem and a barely existent sense of self-worth is exactly that?fear. The ultimate purpose of propaganda as used for control by the New World Order, is to rob the individual of his or her personal will or power, and to instill in its place fear. It seeks to exchange the personal will or power for that of the masses or the organization seeking to control. Anyone taking a look at any system in society such as the schools, the Yuppies, the scientific communities etc., will recognize the inherent power peer pressure seeks to impose over the individual these days in an attempt to rob the individual of his personal freewill and personal power. This involves gradually substituting one set of goals for another in order to have the individual buy into the greater will of the Masses or the organization. One of the simplest yet most vivid of examples of this kind of mindless adherence to the rules that I have witnessed recently is the desire of people not to take the responsibility for making a personal decision. Like the guards at the concentration camps of the Second World War, it is easier to blame it on the leaders and the fact that ?we were only following the rules.? Institutional rules, even those that are blatantly inhumane or against normal common sense, have become the scapegoat for everyone?s failure to act rationally and with dignity towards their fellow man.

For me it is the local library that won?t allow a person to use the computers for more than hour once a day?even though the computers might sit vacant for hours on end waiting for non-existent people to use them. Or the apartment owner who has you move your car from the vacant parking spot of an unoccupied apartment, even though it would only take a minute to pick up a friend. Rules are rules is the cry of the irresponsible, not the responsible. When rules come before humanity, then we must be aware that the guile of the New World Order has already done its job and we are already slaves.

The small ways in which each and every one of us can begin to fight back against the mindless greater will of the omnipresent New World Order is to exercise Love in all our decision-making processes and dealings with our fellow man. This is especially true when they relate to our own sense of being overwhelmed by something which feels so much bigger than ourselves.

The Macrocosm is indeed inherent in the microcosm, and vice versa. If we begin with each small decision that we make during the course of the day and hold out in favor of humanity over technology and the mass consciousness as expressed by ?the rules? , we can all feel a little more human, and strikes one more blow, however small, for humanity over institutionalism. Standing in your power and deciding to be treated like a human being (and in turn treating others also as human beings) not like a number is one of the greatest acts of rebellion we can perform.

The one thing that must be done above all to begin our own healing with regard to our own low self-esteem is to love. To forgive both those who we feel have wronged us, and most importantly of all ourselves, is to regain our lost power. To reclaim this lost power (that which we have so readily given away to both friends, family, and enemies alike, I recommend the following exercise borrowed liberally from the Native American Shamanic tradition of erasing personal history (and thereby reclaiming the personal power given away).

Reclaiming your Power:

1. With plenty of time to complete the task no matter how long it takes, find a quiet comfortable area where you will not be disturbed?a place where you feel safe, a place where you feel some kind of nurturance from your surroundings such as a room filled with your favorite books, a quiet garden space, or somewhere out in nature.

2. Center yourself in whatever way is most comfortable for you?by chanting, by smudging, or simply by sitting peacefully with your eyes open or closed for a short period of time.

3. Open yourself to your own highest Good, your Higher Power, some non-denominational sense of the Cosmos that you know loves you and that you trust.

4. As you find yourself ready, go slowly over the decades of your life?either chronologically or in reverse order. Think of and/or write down a list of all those you have been involved with you in some way and to whom you have given a part of yourself. This could be either in a positive or negative way through some kind of attachment of love or hate or fear or some other emotional state. This list should include such people as your parents, your teachers, your school mates who you envied or tried to copy, the neighborhood bully, the girlfriends or boyfriends?real or imagined, the husbands or wives, your children, your neighbors, the bosses and co-workers with whom you have shared both good times and bad?everyone who you can say took or was given a piece of you that you now need to reclaim in this attempt to regain your personal power.

Kenneth Meadows, in his book The Medicine Way?A Shamanic Path to Self Mastery, says to use the phrase, ?Things would have been so different IF . . .? The things which follow that IF are the very attachments you now need to release. In releasing attachments we let go of what is draining us of our personal power. We reclaim the focus and the attention from the past and are now able to recrystallize it on our present circumstances and stand in our power and in our strength.

5. Once we have made this list or identified those with whom our personal power has been in storage, then comes the essential act of reclaiming our power, thanking?and if necessary, forgiving them, and ourselves. No matter what has happened between the two of you?things either positive or seemingly negative?the lessons have been there for you to learn, and these people have done their best, limited though it may appear to you, to help you learn your lessons and make you the best person you can be. Thank them for whatever part they have played in your own spiritual growth, and forgive them for whatever they did or did not do to you in any other way. To hold any strong feeling for anyone in the past is to give away a piece of your energy to that person, and the personal power you will need here in the very near and very real future that awaits us all in combating the New World Order. Do this for each and every person on your list, savoring each moment as you recall it and then letting it go.

6. And when all is said and done, then look at your own behavior over these same times and know that, although you may not always have been at your best, that to live in shame or blame or with some degree of guilt is the greatest source of giving away your personal power to a source which is not real. The real Creator has only and is only Love. Darkness cannot even come near to it because IT is so much Light. If IT cannot see Darkness, then it certainly does not judge us for it knows we are learning, and that there is a balance for everything we do. In this spirit, love yourself as IT loves you, and then forgive yourself.

7. Make a small ritual of burning or destroying your list, and feel the weight being lifted from your shoulders as your strength and Will and power return to you. Then be cognizant of every person and situation that enters your day and may try to steal some of your power away again. Bless them or the situation and give them love and be on your way, safe in your newfound strength, prepared for the difficult days ahead, knowing that though the Darkness may reign for a short time longer on the planet as it solidifies its power base here?there can only be one eventual winner?and of that there is no doubt. The Light will always overcome the Darkness and drive it back into the Void from whence it first came.

author Peter Farley

[mcthompson2x]

You know, you are very arrogant to assume that I should have just accepted your claims without any initial evidence. The way you respond it's as if you already know me, and for some reason you know that I don't have an open mind and my conscience isn't awake. It's very insulting. I am totally open to the possibility that I am wrong about this and if I am, I would love to know why. You don't need to act as though I'm some kind of idiot for demanding evidence. Blindly believing what other people has to say is what has gotten humanity in the situation it's in right now. You need to step back and realize that when you talk to people the way that you are, then you aren't helping your situation at all. I'm going to review your evidence now, but I don't appreciate being talked to like I'm some kind of moron for asking you to supply evidence. I didn't demand anything. When you post something, then someone might ask you to provide evidence. It's common sense. You're very rude.

EDIT: Now that I've read what you have to say, all that I can say is that your photo and the family tree certainly aren't evidence enough to justify your arrogance and dominant attitude. I'm glad we're on the same page about stopping this reptilian bullshit, but you need to be more accepting of people who you think aren't as "aware" as you happen to think you are. Otherwise you just come off as a jerk. The excerpt you posted also doesn't say anything to me that I don't already know.

[sebastian]

You know, you are very arrogant to assume that I should have just accepted your claims without any initial evidence. The way you respond it's as if you already know me, and for some reason you know that I don't have an open mind and my conscience isn't awake. It's very insulting. I am totally open to the possibility that I am wrong about this and if I am, I would love to know why. You don't need to act as though I'm some kind of idiot for demanding evidence. Blindly believing what other people has to say is what has gotten humanity in the situation it's in right now. You need to step back and realize that when you talk to people the way that you are, then you aren't helping your situation at all. I'm going to review your evidence now, but I don't appreciate being talked to like I'm some kind of moron for asking you to supply evidence. I didn't demand anything. When you post something, then someone might ask you to provide evidence. It's common sense. You're very rude.

EDIT: Now that I've read what you have to say, all that I can say is that your photo and the family tree certainly aren't evidence enough to justify your arrogance and dominant attitude. I'm glad we're on the same page about stopping this reptilian bullshit, but you need to be more accepting of people who you think aren't as "aware" as you happen to think you are. Otherwise you just come off as a jerk. The excerpt you posted also doesn't say anything to me that I don't already know.

Let me rephrase so you won't think that I think you are not aware and openminded :rolleyes:

As far as the reptillian, draco, ciakar connection are concerned, I personally believe that it might be a little bit difficult for you to understand because you don't have all the pieces to see the whole puzzle.

I don't feel like proving anything to you, but I believe that YOU should do your own research since reptiloid references are in ALL major and minor biblical, mythological references and materials since many thousands of years ago.

Again: do your research.

As far as me being rude, I believe you are just getting your panties up in a bunch for nada. Relax my friend and don't take it personally.

There are more important issues to debate right now than someone proving to you that reptilian races coexist with us here and in this galaxy ;)

[sebastian]

PS: The "picture" above,is the Last Supper, superimposed on it's own copy mirror like.

The necessary commentary you have it in the link I provided. Jesus, with a reptile face, red dragons on his garment, several types of aliens,etc.

I'm sure it's just a huge coincidence.

If you still have doubts, maybe you should gravitate towards other areas of interest. Or not.

[sebastian]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/biggestsecretbook/images/biggestsecretbook28.jpg



The Flying Serpent statue in the centre of Temple Bar (left) in London, the former Knights Templar lands and home to some of the most important secret societies within the Babylonian Brotherhood.

The dragon and the fire cross marking the entrance to the City of London financial district (right), one of the most important centers on the planet for the Brotherhood. The red cross on the white background was a sun symbol for the Phoenicians, the logo of the Knights Templar, and is the flag of England.

A reptile statue (above) found in graves of the Ubaid people who lived in what is now Iraq up to around 4,000 BC. Mother and baby are depicted with lizardlike features. This culture predates the Venus cataclysm which probably forced the surviving reptilians underground or into another dimension.

The White Horse at Uffington in Wiltshire (below), dated at 3,000 BC, the time the Phoenicians had arrived in Britain. The white horse was a Phoenician symbol for the Sun.

Gargoyles and flying serpents (above) have been placed all over the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris and many are smaller versions of serpent symbols found at Maya sites in Mexico. Gargoyles are symbols of the reptilians and were chosen by the Brotherhood secret societies, especially the Knights Templar; to ‘decorate’ endless cathedrals, churches, stately homes of the aristocratic bloodlines and other buildings.

[sebastian]

“The Queen Mother... now that’s a serious piece of wizardry. The Queen Mother is a lot older than people think. To be honest, the Royal Family hasn’t died for a long time, they have just metamorphosised. It’s sort of cloning, but in a different way. They take pieces of flesh and rebuild the body from one little bit. Because it’s lizard, because it’s cold-blooded, it’s much easier for them to do Frankenstein shit than it is for us. The different bodies are just different electrical vibrations and they have got that secret, they’ve got the secret of the micro-currents, it’s so micro, so specific, these radio waves that actually create the bodies. These are the energies I work with when I’m healing.



They know the vibration of life and because they are cold-blooded, they are reptiles, they have no wish to make the Earth the perfect harmony it could be, or to heal the Earth from the damage that’s been done. The Earth’s been attacked for zeons by different extraterrestrials. It’s been like a football for so long. This place was a bus stop for many different aliens. All these aliens, they could cope with everything, including the noxious gases.



They’re landing all the time and coming up from the bowels of the Earth. They looked like reptiles originally, but they look like us when they get out now through the electrical vibration, that life key I talked about. They can manifest how they want to. All the real knowledge has been taken out and shredded and put back in another way. The Queen Mother is “Chief Toad” of this part of Europe and they have people like her in each continent. Most people, the hangers on, don’t know, you know, about the reptiles. They are just in awe of these people because they are so powerful.


“Bal moral is a very, very nasty place. That’s somewhere they want to dig underground. They will find reptile fossils, it goes back that far. Don’t think of people like the Queen Mother and Queen Victoria, as different people. Think of them as the same person which after a while has had to replace their coat. When the flesh dies, that energy, while it’s dying, will be immediately up someone else’s jacksy (backside). It’s very vampire, worse than vampire.



They are not going to come to you with hooked teeth and suck you’re blood. Fear is their food, they can actually take fear and manifest it into a tangible thing. The key is the vibrational current. At that vibrational current, they can manifest anything from anything. Its like a holographic image. We are all minerals and water vibrating. This is all an illusion we are living in. That’s the secret. You know when the monarchy’s fallen, it’s not the end of it. They will manifest in another form. The reptiles have never been defeated and this is the closest they have come to it.



The reason they are so threatened today is because the Earth is in such trouble and the mental power of people is returning. This is their most frightening time, but this is not going to kill them. There are long centuries before it’s over yet. The difference this time is that it’ll be more difficult for them and they are going to have to settle for less and the Earth people are going to get more.



But even though these reptilian ones are fuckers, they are sad, pathetic beasts really, while humanity is galloping towards light. They’re just pathetic lumps of nastiness who aren’t going to win. I can’t talk about this everywhere because they would just go ‘Christine, get a white coat, put it on backwards, get out’. But I want an end to the bullshit.”

"....Christine Fitzgerald had talked publicly about her experiences with Diana and what she knows of the reptilian agenda. "

excerpt from " The Biggest Secret "

[mcthompson2x]

Look, you don't understand. I already believe in Reptilians, and I believe they exist not only extradimensionally, but in this dimension as well. All I asked for was proof that the public individuals that you listed were actually Reptilians, and if not for proof, then at least some evidence for me to begin following. I do a great deal of research, in fact when I'm not here if I'm on the internet, I'm somewhere else, researching this vast subject. You are arrogant to assume I have no idea what I'm talking about. Your little roll-eyes smiley is proof enough that you think you know something I don't. It's not an attractive way to make friends. My problem with you is that you seem very condescending and the only reason I can think of is because I refuse to just blindly believe that the list of people you posted on this website are reptilians themselves. I have no reason to believe it and none of my research has led me there. Now, I'm not demanding proof from you at all. I know that's not the way it works. If it's true, it's not up to you to prove anything. My only problem is the hyper-condescension you seem to have risen to the challenge of proving yourself with. It is unattractive and turns people off to your message. You don't need to assume that I'm ignorant about the whole issue at all, because I'm highly knowledgeable, at least as knowledgeable as one can be about intergalactic politics. I'm kind of done defending why I think you're being condescending though, you've laid the evidence out in front of everyone. You may very well be right when it comes to the facts that you've presented, but in your assumption that I must just be totally ignorant on the subject and that you should merely be trusted because of the precise knowledge you have accumulated - which, by the way, did you get off of your knowledge off of the internet and through word of mouth? Because that's how I got mine. If you got your information the same way, there's yet another reason for you to lose the condescending and useless attitude. But I won't make another mention of it, I'm done pointing it out to you.

[sebastian]

ok. Gotcha....I've seen a picture of a flying winged draco in plain day over twin towers wreckage , one slightly distorted reptillian picture

If anyone has them saved please post them.

[sebastian]

Look, you don't understand. I already believe in Reptilians, and I believe they exist not only extradimensionally, but in this dimension as well. All I asked for was proof that the public individuals that you listed were actually Reptilians, and if not for proof, then at least some evidence for me to begin following. I do a great deal of research, in fact when I'm not here if I'm on the internet, I'm somewhere else, researching this vast subject. You are arrogant to assume I have no idea what I'm talking about. Your little roll-eyes smiley is proof enough that you think you know something I don't. It's not an attractive way to make friends. My problem with you is that you seem very condescending and the only reason I can think of is because I refuse to just blindly believe that the list of people you posted on this website are reptilians themselves. I have no reason to believe it and none of my research has led me there. Now, I'm not demanding proof from you at all. I know that's not the way it works. If it's true, it's not up to you to prove anything. My only problem is the hyper-condescension you seem to have risen to the challenge of proving yourself with. It is unattractive and turns people off to your message. You don't need to assume that I'm ignorant about the whole issue at all, because I'm highly knowledgeable, at least as knowledgeable as one can be about intergalactic politics. I'm kind of done defending why I think you're being condescending though, you've laid the evidence out in front of everyone. You may very well be right when it comes to the facts that you've presented, but in your assumption that I must just be totally ignorant on the subject and that you should merely be trusted because of the precise knowledge you have accumulated - which, by the way, did you get off of your knowledge off of the internet and through word of mouth? Because that's how I got mine. If you got your information the same way, there's yet another reason for you to lose the condescending and useless attitude. But I won't make another mention of it, I'm done pointing it out to you.

You and I would not make friends for sure. Nor would I want to. Let it go. Get on with life. Plant a tree...

Don't worry about the " masses " . They will have all the necessary proof soon....when it'll be too late of course

[tim the enchanter]

I got my info from various sources. I can give you plenty of links. How do I know they are on point ? Easy : I follow my intuition. It's always told me what's right and what's garbage.

And I use another powerful tool : common sense.

I do nod need ten's of thousands of scientific data to be CONVINCED :rolleyes: that 1+1=2

You didn't answer his question. :)

[mcthompson2x]

You didn't answer his question. :)

Exactly. He hasn't proven a damn thing yet, and somehow we're still supposed to believe him because he follows his intuition. It's completely stupid.

[sebastian]

Exactly. He hasn't proven a damn thing yet, and somehow we're still supposed to believe him because he follows his intuition. It's completely stupid.

you're just angry cause you don't get it

I really do not care if you believe me, Farley or Icke.

[tim the enchanter]

you're just angry cause you don't get it

I really do not care if you believe me, Farley or Icke.

The only thing I was realy insinuating is that it seems very unlikely that you would be able to name all of those (seemingly) random and prominent politicians as being aliens or aligned with aliens. It also seems very unlikely that they would be so.

But, I might be proven completely wrong, and you may be dead to rights. So, that was the question you did not answer to my personal satisfaction, viz: so, show us what you got to prove it.

[sebastian]

The only thing I was realy insinuating is that it seems very unlikely that you would be able to name all of those (seemingly) random and prominent politicians as being aliens or aligned with aliens. It also seems very unlikely that they would be so.

But, I might be proven completely wrong, and you may be dead to rights. So, that was the question you did not answer to my personal satisfaction, viz: so, show us what you got to prove it.

Oh that was a list from Peter Farley

[mcthompson2x]

Oh that was a list from Peter Farley

Who is Peter Farley? Do you know where he got his research from? Is it based on anything other than his intuition?

I'm not angry at all, I just think it's bizarre that you refuse to provide solid evidence yet demand that people "wake up" and believe that you are telling the absolute truth. It's irrelevant anyway, but you seem to not even have enough respect for me to understand why I can't just assume you're telling the truth. I can do that without thinking you're a liar.