I have a question (maybe be offensive to some)

[fayette]

I have a question, do you think it would be racist if someone thinks that some black people tend to resemble apes? would you call them a racist? even if that person isn't against blacks in any way.

[mercuryrapids]

Actually, we all look like apes, because we are apes!

[manchurian_candidate]

Hmmm... that is a potentially volatile question. Personally saying someone resembles something isnt in itself a rascist comment... I am not sure how that comment might be taken though :confused::confused:

[fayette]

what if you notice a certain race tends to resmeble an animal? you can't help thinking it?

[montag]

Is this a hypothetical question or do you know somebody who thinks this? Also what type of black people are you referring to as people with dark skin color belong to many races and are as varying in looks as people of lighter skin?

[montag]

Actually, we all look like apes, because we are apes!
Speak for yourself..

[fayette]

Is this a hypothetical question or do you know somebody who thinks this? Also what type of black people are you referring to as people with dark skin color belong to many races and are as varying in looks as people of lighter skin?

I know someone who thinks this and was attacked by freinds who say she is racist for thinking such a thing. i don't think its harmful unless you say it, it something that is taboo. I'm talking about African Americans.

[paradox]

no we are not apes lol or monkeys for that matter.

monkeys/apes have huminoid DNA they are part of us not the other way round. As with most animals.

We were created from a mixture of many DNA's and none of them were Monkey based.

Monkeys/apes are just another creation that have slight matching dna thats all.

[montag]

People of all colors can look like primates..
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5341/bushchimppo3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[mercuryrapids]

There are five types of ape: gibbons, gorillas, chimpanzees, orang-utans and humans. We are more closely related to chimps than horses are to zebras.

That's the bottom line. Maybe we had out genetic code fiddled with way back when to make us the way we are now, but we are still members of the ape family.

[majicdragon]

Yeah, I think it's kind of racist to say that a specific race looks like apes.

WhaT's next?... chinese people look like rodents?... Nordic people look like aliens?

We all look like apes, we all resemble rodents, and we all could be mistaken as aliens.

Khazarians look like reptiles.

[fayette]

no we are not apes lol or monkeys for that matter.

monkeys/apes have huminoid DNA they are part of us not the other way round. As with most animals.

We were created from a mixture of many DNA's and none of them were Monkey based.

Monkeys/apes are just another creation that have slight matching dna thats all.

But don't humans descent from apes? and we all descent from Africa so it wouldnt be too strange to make the association that some blacks resemble apes. ??

[montag]

I know someone who thinks this and was attacked by freinds who say she is racist for thinking such a thing. i don't think its harmful unless you say it, it something that is taboo. I'm talking about African Americans.
Racism has to do with intent, that sounds more like political correctness..

[fayette]

People of all colors can look like primates..
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5341/bushchimppo3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

yes i personally think all races can look like apes.

[fayette]

Racism has to do with intent, that sounds more like political correctness..

so why are people so quick to say that is racist? I think its stupid.

[montag]

There are five types of ape: gibbons, gorillas, chimpanzees, orang-utans and humans. We are more closely related to chimps than horses are to zebras.

That's the bottom line. Maybe we had out genetic code fiddled with way back when to make us the way we are now, but we are still members of the ape family.
Ah you see, thats different to what you first said, yes I agree we are members of the same family, but we are not apes we are Human Beings..

[montag]

so why are people so quick to say that is racist? I think its stupid.
Programming.

[fayette]

Programming.

:( that is very very sad.

[fayette]

i feel we are in the matrix and everybody is programmed and i'm not. :(

[mercuryrapids]

Ah you see, thats different to what you first said, yes I agree we are members of the same family, but we are not apes we are Human Beings..

Huh? We are apes. Gorillas are apes. Chimps are apes.

Ape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[montag]

Huh? We are apes. Gorillas are apes. Chimps are apes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape
You may be but I can assure you that I am not..:D

[mercuryrapids]

Yes you are. We all are. Why don't you like being called an ape, anyway? What's wrong with apes?

[fayette]

Yes you are. We all are. Why don't you like being called an ape, anyway? What's wrong with apes?

lol

[montag]

Yes you are. We all are. Why don't you like being called an ape, anyway? What's wrong with apes?
I've already explained myself, I am a human being not an animal.

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.zoltron.com/apes/images/apes.jpg

[mercuryrapids]

Humans are animals. Everything on Earth is either animal, vegetable or mineral. I'm presuming you're not a vegetable or mineral, so you must be an animal, like the rest of us.

[celtic isis]

Actually, we all look like apes, because we are apes!

i'm more offended by this actually! hope that's a joke cause eh, WE'RE NOT APES!!!

Darwinism...:eek:blurgh

and we're not "animals" either!!!

[montag]

Humans are animals. Everything on Earth is either animal, vegetable or mineral. I'm presuming you're not a vegetable or mineral, so you must be an animal, like the rest of us.
I am infinite consciousness.

[montag]

i'm more offended by this actually! hope that's a joke cause eh, WE'RE NOT APES!!!

Darwinism...:eek:blurgh

and we're not "animals" either!!!
I'm with you celtic..:)

[mercuryrapids]

I am infinite consciousness.

...and so is everything else. That's what infinite means, love... ;) Meanwhile, in this body, we are apes.

[mercuryrapids]

i'm more offended by this actually! hope that's a joke cause eh, WE'RE NOT APES!!!

Darwinism...:eek:blurgh

and we're not "animals" either!!!

I refer my honourable friend to the answer I gave earlier... :)

[fayette]

i'm still confused why people would logically induce that a person is racist if they logically notice that a certain race tends to have characteristics of an animal(ape in this case) they can't help but think this. how does that authomatically make them an ignorant and stupid person? i feel people who think like this are programmed like montad saids and they just sheep.

[celtic isis]

I am infinite consciousness.

right on montag :)

i know i certainly don't look like an ape :D

look human beings, we didn't evolve from apes ok, and all this we're just animals stuff urgh how blazé...

It's just convenient to say and think that. Saying that animals are not just animals either, they have a higher consciousness too (anyone who has a pet knows this)...just they have to kill to survive unlike us wo have all our killing done for us and then neatly packaged in the supermarket...no blood on our hands.

Apes are apes, human beings are human beings, how do you explain the missing link?

Putting us in this "we are animals" category further serves to take our power away and make us enslaved. Also makes people think it's ok to be selfish and ruthless and seperate us all further.

[montag]

...and so is everything else. That's what infinite means, love... Meanwhile, in this body, we are apes.
Well I guess it all comes down to a matter of belief, obviously we differ there so lets just leave it at that.:)

[fayette]

right on montag :)

i know i certainly don't look like an ape :D

look human beings, we didn't evolve from apes ok, and all this we're just animals stuff urgh how blazé...

It's just convenient to say and think that. Saying that animals are not just animals either, they have a higher consciousness too (anyone who has a pet knows this)...just they have to kill to survive unlike us wo have all our killing done for us and then neatly packaged in the supermarket...no blood on our hands.

Apes are apes, human beings are human beings, how do you explain the missing link?

Putting us in this "we are animals" category further serves to take our power away and make us enslaved. Also makes people think it's ok to be selfish and ruthless and seperate us all further.

humans have evolved from apes, what are you talking about? this is what we learned in biology but i wouldn't be surprised if its not true but do you know something i don't?

[mercuryrapids]

Saying we are not animals just denigrates all the other animals. Animals are brilliant. Plants are brilliant. All life is brilliant. All life is connected. We are different because (to quote John Anthony West) we invented atom bombs and striped toothpaste.

[fayette]

Saying we are not animals just denigrates all the other animals. Animals are brilliant. Plants are brilliant. All life is brilliant. All life is connected. We are different because (to quote John Anthony West) we invented atom bombs and striped toothpaste.


us humans like to think we are more superior then animals. lol

[drael]

yeah this intellect at its best.

[mercuryrapids]

Well I guess it all comes down to a matter of belief, obviously we differ there so lets just leave it at that.:)

Talking about God can be a matter of belief. Talking about ghosts can be a matter of belief. Talking about telepathy can be a matter of belief. Talking about infinite consciousness can be a matter of belief. This is because there's little to no empirical evidence about those subjects (although many would argue about that).

There's a lot of evidence to show that humans are members of the ape family. We are animals. We are mammals. We are apes. I don't have a problem with that. :)

[eternal_spirit]

i'm still confused why people would logically induce that a person is racist if they logically notice that a certain race tends to have characteristics of an animal(ape in this case) they can't help but think this. how does that authomatically make them an ignorant and stupid person? i feel people who think like this are programmed like montad saids and they just sheep.

.................

Problem is some people have a chip on their shoulder about white people and are themselves racist so any excuse is a good enough reason for them to call anyone white racist. Sure it can apply the other way too vice versa. The word Nigger may originate from a country in Africa called Niger, or nigger may come from Negroid, Same for Paki relates to people who come from Pakistan, you can call A Scottish person a Scott and they don't mind because they are from Scotland.

[fayette]

yeah this intellect at its best.

are you making fun of me or the others?

[montag]

Saying we are not animals just denigrates all the other animals. Animals are brilliant. Plants are brilliant. All life is brilliant. All life is connected. We are different because (to quote John Anthony West) we invented atom bombs and striped toothpaste.
A human life is sacred, classing us as animals means it becomes ok to control and enslave us like animals.

[mercuryrapids]

I always thought that all life was sacred.

[celtic isis]

are you making fun of me or the others?

if it's drael who cares. :)

ok mercury i get what you're saying now. :)

[montag]

I always thought that all life was sacred.
Are you a vegan then?

[mercuryrapids]

Are you a vegan then?


Nope. Just because I eat meat and plants, that doesn't mean I have any less respect for life.

[montag]

Nope. Just because I eat meat and plants, that doesn't mean I have any less respect for life.
Yes it does, you are supporting the exploitation of animals through factory farming, if you really thought all life was sacred you wouldn't be doing it.

[mercuryrapids]

You got me on that one. I'll just eat dirt and salt from now on, eh? Oh no, there might be microbes in them. Or I'll strip naked and go hunting with a stick, like we were designed to do.:rolleyes:

[fayette]

so? animals eat animals. its life.

[montag]

You got me on that one. I'll just eat dirt and salt from now on, eh? Oh no, there might be microbes in them. Or I'll strip naked and go hunting with a stick, like we were designed to do.:rolleyes:
I'm not trying to get anyone nor am I suggesting that you eat dirt, I'm stating my case and defending my POV ..

Sacred \Sa"cred\, a. [Originally p. p. of OE. sacren to consecrate, F. sacrer, fr. L. sacrare, fr. sacer sacred, holy, cursed. Cf. Consecrate, Execrate, Saint, Sexton.]

1. Set apart by solemn religious ceremony; especially, in a good sense, made holy; set apart to religious use; consecrated; not profane or common; as, a sacred place; a sacred day; sacred service.

2. Relating to religion, or to the services of religion; not secular; religious; as, sacred history.

Smit with the love of sacred song. --Milton.

3. Designated or exalted by a divine sanction; possessing the highest title to obedience, honor, reverence, or veneration; entitled to extreme reverence; venerable.

Such neighbor nearness to our sacred [royal] blood Should nothing privilege him. --Shak.

Poet and saint to thee alone were given, The two most sacred names of earth and heaven. --Cowley.

4. Hence, not to be profaned or violated; inviolable.

Secrets of marriage still are sacred held. --Dryden.

5. Consecrated; dedicated; devoted; -- with to.

A temple, sacred to the queen of love. --Dryden.

6. Solemnly devoted, in a bad sense, as to evil, vengeance, curse, or the like; accursed; baleful. [Archaic]

But, to destruction sacred and devote. --Milton.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

[informationx]

I have a question, do you think it would be racist if someone thinks that some black people tend to resemble apes? would you call them a racist? even if that person isn't against blacks in any way.

I dont think its racist to think that things have similarity's between them. I thought Mickey from the rocky movies looked like a little monkey. I also think lee evans looks like a chimpanzee. I'm clearly not being racist. We can all see similarity's in people and other things.

I think it would be clearly different if you were to say it to someone of colour. Because I would think without expection it would be taken as offensive and racist comment.

[montag]

so? animals eat animals. its life.
You've missed my point.

[eternal_spirit]

I dont think its racist to think that things have similarity's between them. I thought Mickey from the rocky movies looked like a little monkey. I also think lee evans looks like a chimpanzee. I'm clearly not being racist. We can all see similarity's in people and other things.

I think it would be clearly different if you were to say it to someone of colour. Because I would think without expection it would be taken as offensive and racist comment.

Lmao ditto about Evans and Norman Wisdom. Robbie who used to be in Eastenders years ago looks like a rat. And Sharon looked a bit like Miss Piggie off the Muppet show.

[mercuryrapids]

I'm not trying to get anyone nor am I suggesting that you eat dirt, I'm stating my case and defending my POV ..

Sacred \Sa"cred\, a. [Originally p. p. of OE. sacren to consecrate, F. sacrer, fr. L. sacrare, fr. sacer sacred, holy, cursed. Cf. Consecrate, Execrate, Saint, Sexton.]

1. Set apart by solemn religious ceremony; especially, in a good sense, made holy; set apart to religious use; consecrated; not profane or common; as, a sacred place; a sacred day; sacred service.

2. Relating to religion, or to the services of religion; not secular; religious; as, sacred history.

Smit with the love of sacred song. --Milton.

3. Designated or exalted by a divine sanction; possessing the highest title to obedience, honor, reverence, or veneration; entitled to extreme reverence; venerable.

Such neighbor nearness to our sacred [royal] blood Should nothing privilege him. --Shak.

Poet and saint to thee alone were given, The two most sacred names of earth and heaven. --Cowley.

4. Hence, not to be profaned or violated; inviolable.

Secrets of marriage still are sacred held. --Dryden.

5. Consecrated; dedicated; devoted; -- with to.

A temple, sacred to the queen of love. --Dryden.

6. Solemnly devoted, in a bad sense, as to evil, vengeance, curse, or the like; accursed; baleful. [Archaic]

But, to destruction sacred and devote. --Milton.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Okay, perhaps, I should have said all life should be respected. I do try to get free range stuff these days, but that could still be classed as animal exploitation, as the animals are still farmed and not in their natural environment.

My point of view is that humans are the diminant life form on this planet because of our ability to think abstractly and use tools. That doesn't make us any more or less important than all the other life on the planet. As I said earlier, all life is connected.

[montag]

Okay, perhaps, I should have said all life should be respected.
I agree with you there for sure, I also eat animals and I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you shouldn't. My point was that if you put us in the same category as mere animals then all sorts of atrocities inflicted upon us can then be justified by those who wish to enslave us under that pretext.

[limelady]

You've missed my point.

Well some of us got your point. :D

And we are certainly NOT apes....and there is no way we could have evolved from apes into humans in Darwin's allotted time-frame - its just not possible....unless of course there was some form of deliberate intervention (http://www.lloydpye.com/intervention.html)? ;)

[mercuryrapids]

mere animals?

I actually find that kind of offensive. :rolleyes: (not a lot, just a bit...)

[thirdwave]

Yeah, I think it's kind of racist to say that a specific race looks like apes.

WhaT's next?... chinese people look like rodents?... Nordic people look like aliens?

We all look like apes, we all resemble rodents, and we all could be mistaken as aliens.

Khazarians look like reptiles.


if you were to remove all judgement .. then its not racist...

I dont think that black people look like apes...

but with some very dark Africans because of featured like the lips being larger and the skin being darker... then you can see why people would see them more tied to the Rhesus DNA than lighter skinned people....

its not like you are saying that race is any worse than any other...or that its stupid... you are talking about its physical appearance, its DNA ...

for example if you said a white pail man with small eyes and small lips may look reptilian like more tied to reptilian DNA....

why is it this would not be seen as racist?.... because it would not. And I don't think snakes are any more intelligent or flattering than an ape.

Its only because of the recent history of the black people being enslaved that it is an issue... and racism will never really leave until that is aloud to be a thing of the past.

for example...If I was at work and was playing with my Spanish mate and joked "I dont know, bloody yops!" ..it would be cheeky and a joke....

If I said "I dont know, bloody Blacks" ...all of a sudden it would have a dark edge to it.....

I have a mate who is black and he agreed...we used to have a right laugh because we would call him black names and it was so funny because he use to see the funny side of it and call us names back... because of this it was so difficult to see his skin colour anyway..... it was the same colour as mine as far as I was concerned.. same with him...

[montag]

mere animals?

I actually find that kind of offensive. :rolleyes: (not a lot, just a bit...)
It's your choice to be offended by your own interpretation of my mere use of the English language.

mere

adjective

1: being nothing more than specified; "a mere child" [syn: {mere(a)}]

2: apart from anything else; without additions or modifications; "only the bare facts"; "shocked by the mere idea"; "the simple passage of time was enough"; "the simple truth" [syn: {bare(a)}, {mere(a)}, {simple(a)}]

[mercuryrapids]

It's your choice to be offended by your own interpretation of my mere use of the English language.

mere

adjective

1: being nothing more than specified; "a mere child" [syn: {mere(a)}]

2: apart from anything else; without additions or modifications; "only the bare facts"; "shocked by the mere idea"; "the simple passage of time was enough"; "the simple truth" [syn: {bare(a)}, {mere(a)}, {simple(a)}]

Yep, it is my choice, but the word 'mere' invokes the notion that you believe animals are lesser beings to humans. While that may be one interpretation, I'd suggest that a lot of people would share that. Got to stick up for our furry/scaly/feathery/slimy friends here... :)

[izzy]

Huh? We are apes. Gorillas are apes. Chimps are apes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape


i thought we were primates too - we are just a different breed of ape .. montaq humans are apes they are primates .. as far as i am aware that is a biological fact ..

saying no you are not an ape you are a human is like a gorilla saying he is not an ape he is a gorilla ...

i think you will find you are a primate .. and an ape ... albeit a human kind .. we all are

[izzy]

I agree with you there for sure, I also eat animals and I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you shouldn't. My point was that if you put us in the same category as mere animals then all sorts of atrocities inflicted upon us can then be justified by those who wish to enslave us under that pretext.


'' mere animals '' huh .. we are animals ... it amazes me that anyone can delude themselves into thinking differently ..

humans are biologically animals - mammals ... FACT

[montag]

Yep, it is my choice, but the word 'mere' invokes the notion that you believe animals are lesser beings to humans. While that may be one interpretation, I'd suggest that a lot of people would share that. Got to stick up for our furry/scaly/feathery/slimy friends here... :)
I am an animal lover so I think you have the wrong end of the stick here, anyway we seem to be beginning to go around in circles now so I'll end this here if thats ok..

Peace..

[mercuryrapids]

I am an animal lover so I think you have the wrong end of the stick here, anyway we seem to be beginning to go around in circles now so I'll end this here if thats ok..

Peace..

No probs... :) I suddenly feel the urge to eat a banana... ;)

[izzy]

Apes are the members of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, which includes humans. Under the current classification system there are two families of hominoids:

the family Hylobatidae consists of 4 genera and 13 species of gibbons, including the Lar Gibbon and the Siamang, collectively known as the lesser apes.
the family Hominidae consisting of orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans,[1][2] collectively known as the great apes.
A few other primates, such as the Barbary Ape, have the word "ape" in their common names (usually to indicate lack of a tail), but they are not regarded as true apes.

Ape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


ok ill stop now .. but as you can see we are apes

[montag]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape


Ah wikipedia, the fountain of all knowledge and truths..:rolleyes:

[ticker]

I am an animal lover so I think you have the wrong end of the stick here, anyway we seem to be beginning to go around in circles now so I'll end this here if thats ok..

Peace..

No probs... :) I suddenly feel the urge to eat a banana... ;)


I'm with montag here. Mercury, the argument isn't black or white.. its gray. Montag is simply saying he/she isn't an ape, which is a valid point as there is NO conclusive evidence that proves we are descendants of apes. Therefore it is just a theory among many. You on the other hand, feel the need to impose your belief on montag (and everyone) as you are saying he/she and everyone else is an ape. If you feel you are an ape, then fine. Montag and everyone else are ok with that. We don't challenge your beliefs by saying you're otherwise, maybe you should do the same for others.

I'm not trying to insult you. Just trying to help you take a step back and perhaps see the big picture.

TiCkEr

[mercuryrapids]

Er, I'm just saying what I feel to be true. If others disagree, that's fine, but I'm not going to just roll over, I'm going to argue my point and I'd expect others to do the same about their point of view.

I'm not trying to impose any view on anybody. If we were not allowed to say what we think, then we might as well sit in small, dark boxes and never come out.

[thirdwave]

Yep, it is my choice, but the word 'mere' invokes the notion that you believe animals are lesser beings to humans. While that may be one interpretation, I'd suggest that a lot of people would share that. Got to stick up for our furry/scaly/feathery/slimy friends here... :)

in a way they are lesser beings .....

for example if the world was about to suffer a flood... then we would have more chance of saving animals and food than them...so on...

we have the responsibility, its a shame when we abuse it...

but of course it does not mean we are more important... just more advanced.

[thirdwave]

Ah wikipedia, the fountain of all knowledge and truths..:rolleyes:

Regarding the ape thing I think this is odd territory...

If we are to take in as "Fact" what the offical institutions teach us then we are in fact just the most advanced breed of ape and that's all....

But we would also be taught that we used to actually be monkeys.... even though monkeys are alive today %100 unchanged than they were years and years ago...

and we are the only animal on earth who has managed to and strive to evolve into different life styles and different habits and ways of living... and to become more intelligent and powerful.

which is compleatly separate to the behaviour of any other ape on earth....

so while we can prove that we share some of the same DNA as apes, we also have %90 of our DNA that can only be classed as "Junk DNA" and a huge amount of characteristics and ways about us that are compleatly different to that of an ape.

[eternal_spirit]

Lmao ditto about Evans and Norman Wisdom. Robbie who used to be in Eastenders years ago looks like a rat. And Michelle looked a bit like Miss Piggie off the Muppet show.

I think some black people may LOL at this.

[izzy]

Ah wikipedia, the fountain of all knowledge and truths..:rolleyes:

yea i know what you are saying but if you look at any scientific data it will tell you the same - I can if i want to be pedantic .. get the references for you ..

but you are wrong on this i am afraid .. we are apes we are mammals - all mammals are animals therefore we are all animals
what is your gripe with this

[izzy]

I'm with montag here. Mercury, the argument isn't black or white.. its gray. Montag is simply saying he/she isn't an ape, which is a valid point as there is NO conclusive evidence that proves we are descendants of apes. Therefore it is just a theory among many. You on the other hand, feel the need to impose your belief on montag (and everyone) as you are saying he/she and everyone else is an ape. If you feel you are an ape, then fine. Montag and everyone else are ok with that. We don't challenge your beliefs by saying you're otherwise, maybe you should do the same for others.

I'm not trying to insult you. Just trying to help you take a step back and perhaps see the big picture.

TiCkEr


it is not a valid point - we are not descended from apes we have a common ancestor which means we have a common lineage ...

WE ARE GREAT APES - AND WE ARE ANIMALS FACT ..sorry if that damage your ego

:rolleyes:

[izzy]

Regarding the ape thing I think this is odd territory...

If we are to take in as "Fact" what the offical institutions teach us then we are in fact just the most advanced breed of ape and that's all....

But we would also be taught that we used to actually be monkeys.... even though monkeys are alive today %100 unchanged than they were years and years ago...

so while we can prove that we share some of the same DNA as apes, we also have %90 of our DNA that can only be classed as "Junk DNA" and a huge amount of characteristics and ways about us that are compleatly different to that of an ape.


98 /99 % of our DNA is the same as the great apes and i agree we are advanced versions of apes

BTW monkeys are not great apes they are primates but they are not great apes the only great apes are

orangutans gorillas chimpanzees and bonobos .. and us humans

[debdare]

A few years ago, one of my nephews (who happens to be part Jamaican) told one of my daughter's friends that she looked like his rabbit (She is white and had slightly bucked teeth). Is this racist..?? Of course not!
Lots of different people of any race can resemble any animal. The human brain recognises faces and certain images and compares these images to what we already know.

I also agree that Lee Evans and Bush have 'ape like' features and they are white. :D

[supertzar]

It's shocking how ignorant some people are about evolutionary biology. I make no claims as to the veracity of the theory, but according to mainstream science humans are neither apes nor are they descended from apes. In the mainstream scientific opinion humans and apes developed seperately from a common ancestor.

[danster82]

I think your pointing towards a much deeper social conditioning than we are aware, Alex Jones is quite good at demonstrating how society has become sick with its egoic political correct opinions.

The truth to the answer is if you was innocently saying that a black person looked like an ape and by innocent I mean truly innocent like a very young child then no it is not racist but although that is the truth it is hard for people to believe because the line "a black person looked like an ape" simply cannot be interrupted in an innocent way in a decadent society.

The more important point is the example can be vastly expanded to many areas of life in many forms and far more subtle than the example given.

[informationx]

Good evolution site as far as I can see

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/darwin/index.html

[particlezen]

Saying we are not animals just denigrates all the other animals. Animals are brilliant. Plants are brilliant. All life is brilliant. All life is connected. We are different because (to quote John Anthony West) we invented atom bombs and striped toothpaste.

i completely agree. i think part of our problem as a species is the fact that we think we are separate from every other living being, that we are superior. this kind of thinking is the reason that people have no respect for other sentient beings, and think we have the right to just consume every resource this planet has to offer with no concern for anything else that lives on it alongside us. it's just an ego trip of cosmic proportions.

the whole point of infinite consciousness is that ALL consciousness combined creates infinite energy, not just OUR consciousness. the fact that we happen to inhabit a more capable vehicle than other lifeforms is irrelevant; it's the same spark of divine energy that makes everything from an amoeba to us alive.

most of us don't even understand our own consciousness, never mind that of anything else. it's like trying to measure the unmeasurable. we build stuff, animals don't. this actually tells us nothing about the nature of consciousness, only matter.

it makes no difference whatsoever what we evolved from, or whether we were deliberately constructed in this form. whatever we are, we're here on this planet on our own individual journeys, just like every other creature. some of us are walking, some of us are on pushbikes and some of us are flying. we all get to the same place in the end.

[element]

i'm more offended by this actually! hope that's a joke cause eh, WE'RE NOT APES!!!

Darwinism...:eek:blurgh

and we're not "animals" either!!!

Exactly. Some don't understand mainstream science has put up many belief systems, darwin fraud being one of the many. ;)

[izzy]

It's shocking how ignorant some people are about evolutionary biology. I make no claims as to the veracity of the theory, but according to mainstream science humans are neither apes nor are they descended from apes. In the mainstream scientific opinion humans and apes developed seperately from a common ancestor.

that is what i said ! we have a common ancestor ...:rolleyes:

[element]

that is what i said ! we have a common ancestor ...:rolleyes:

I have no ancestor. I am immortal soul.

'We' or 'I' is not the body.

[izzy]

Evolution Of Man - What is it?
The modern theory concerning the evolution of man proposes that humans and apes derive from an apelike ancestor that lived on earth a few million years ago. The theory states that man, through a combination of environmental and genetic factors, emerged as a species to produce the variety of ethnicities seen today, while modern apes evolved on a separate evolutionary pathway http://www.allaboutscience.org/evolution-of-man.htm

can some one please explain why alot of people on this thread think they are superior to animals and are not animals ..

are these people denying we are mammals ... if all mammals are animals .. then we are ANIMALS

we have a common ancestor with the great apes .. that does not mean we are descended from apes it means we have a common ancestor and we have all developed on different evolutionary paths ...

WE ARE APES ... why do people have a problem with this .. please explain so i understand your mindset .. a

the mind set that says the human species is not an animal not a mammal and not ana Ape ..

AND WHY DO YOU THINK THIS .. its not logical it does not make sense but i am curious to know:rolleyes:

[izzy]

I have no ancestor. I am immortal soul.

'We' or 'I' is not the body.

ok well lets say your body's ancestor :rolleyes:

[izzy]

i'm more offended by this actually! hope that's a joke cause eh, WE'RE NOT APES!!!

Darwinism...:eek:blurgh

and we're not "animals" either!!!

what are we then ?

or should i say to preempt what is your body then ?

is it a mammal or a subspecies or a new species ?

Im curious to know thanks:cool:

[thirdwave]

98 /99 % of our DNA is the same as the great apes and i agree we are advanced versions of apes

BTW monkeys are not great apes they are primates but they are not great apes the only great apes are

orangutans gorillas chimpanzees and bonobos .. and us humans


can you confirm that 99% of ALL of our DNA is the same... or 99% of what they can read of our DNA which is %10

How do they know that the 90% of out junk DNA is the same as other primates?

[izzy]

can you confirm that 99% of ALL of our DNA is the same... or 99% of what they can read of our DNA which is %10

How do they know that the 90% of out junk DNA is the same as other primates?

good question .. i dont know not a biologist ..

i have no problem accepting i am an ape , or my body is that of an ape .. as we all are ...though i love my cousins the orangutan gorilla bonbos and chimps ..

[mercuryrapids]

Human, Chimp Ancestors May Have Mated, DNA Suggests (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/humans-chimps.html)

[krakhead]

I remember reading an article in New Scientist regarding the brain's rection when shown a piture of a chimpanzee and a picture of a black person. The same part of the brain lit up with both. The article went on to suggest that this makes all people inherently rascist which I considered to be absolute arse!

As has already been said earlier in this thread, I think Letitia Dean looks like Miss Piggy!

And I also consider humans to be well-tooled up monkeys. For me I only have to look at people having an argument, the body language, the screaming etc, then watch footage of chimps disagreeing, I find little difference.

From Robert Anton Wilson's "Schrödinger's Cat Trilogy"

Most of the domesticated primates of Terra did not know they were primates. They thought they were something apart from and "superior" to the rest of the planet....

Benny had actually read Darwin once, in college a long time ago, and had heard of sciences like ethology and ecology, but the facts of evolution had never really registered on him. He never thought of himself as a primate. He never realized his friends and associates were primates. Above all, he never understood that the alpha males of Unistat were typical leaders of primate bands. As a result of this inability to see the obvious, Benny was constantly alarmed and terrified by the behavior of himself, his friends and associates and especially the alpha males of the pack. Since he didn't know it was ordinary primate behavior, it seemed just awful to him.

Since a great deal of primate behavior was considered just awful, most of the domesticated primates spent most of their time trying to conceal what they were doing.

Some of the primates got caught by other primates. All of the primates lived in dread of getting caught.

Those who got caught were called no-good shits.

This metaphor was deep in primate psychology because primates mark their territories with excretions, and sometimes they threw excretions at each other when disputing over territories.

[paradox]

You may be but I can assure you that I am not..:D

I can also assure you im not an Ape!

They were created just the same way we was thats all.

[mercuryrapids]

I can also assure you im not an Ape!

They were created just the same way we was thats all.

And how was that? Apes evolved from a common ancestor(s), including us. So, if we're not apes, what are we? Rodents? Equines? Camels? :) Or did God mould us out of the dirt (except women, who he genetically engineered from Adam's rib)? ;)

[element]

And how was that? Apes evolved from a common ancestor(s), including us. So, if we're not apes, what are we? Rodents? Equines? Camels? :) Or did God mould us out of the dirt (except women, who he genetically engineered from Adam's rib)? ;)

Your texts do not contain facts. All but speculation.

[mercuryrapids]

Your texts do not contain facts. All but speculation.

Where do I say I'm talking fact? I'm saying I agree with the theory that humans and the other great apes evolved from a common ancestor, making us closely related. Besides, what's wrong with a bit of speculation now and again? :)

I suppose the theory that humans are super special beings that should be set on a high pillar far away from the other animals is hard fact, eh? ;)

[element]

Where do I say I'm talking fact? I'm saying I agree with the theory that humans and the other great apes evolved from a common ancestor, making us closely related. Besides, what's wrong with a bit of speculation now and again? :)

I suppose the theory that humans are super special beings that should be set on a high pillar far away from the other animals is hard fact, eh? ;)

My bad. But yes we are super special. Our body may be mammal but it does not mean we ourselves are animal.

[izzy]

ok well if our body is mammal can we agree that our body is also animal .. :D

therefore we all inhabit animals bodies ... we are consciousness animating animals

ALL mammals are ANIMALS BTW Fact

[element]

ok well if our body is mammal can we agree that our body is also animal .. :D

Is your Self an animal?

[mercuryrapids]

My bad. But yes we are super special. Our body may be mammal but it does not mean we ourselves are animal.

Huh? *scratches head* :)

[izzy]

I can also assure you im not an Ape!

They were created just the same way we was thats all.

i LIKE being an APE :D

[izzy]

Is your Self an animal?

cause I am a bloody animal haha

if you are human .. you are mammal .. if you are mammal youa re also animal ..

infact so animal like that a lion would happily eat you !

cause your're an animal or your body is .. but then consciousness or soul is in all animals too ..

so tell me what are you .. ???

[mercuryrapids]

i LIKE being an APE :D

Me too. It's cool. I've got opposable thumbs and everything. It's ace. :) Wish I still had grapsing feet, though. That would come in handy. Pity we had to EVOLVE into upright ANIMALS. :)

[izzy]

haha someone that agrees yipee !

also there is some argumant that elephants are also primate .. they have an opposable thumb .. their trunk .. seriously

and they are self aware

[mercuryrapids]

haha someone that agrees yipee !

also there is some argumant that elephants are also primate .. they have an opposable thumb .. their trunk .. seriously

and they are self aware

yeah, but could they set my video timer? :)

[izzy]

yeah, but could they set my video timer? :)


dunno but is that an indicator of intelligence ?

[mercuryrapids]

dunno but is that an indicator of intelligence ?

Problem solving? Some of the best problem solvers in the animal kingdom are squirrels, octopuses (octopi? I can never remember :) ) and several bird species, particularly corvines and parrots/macaws.

[thirdwave]

I remember reading an article in New Scientist regarding the brain's rection when shown a piture of a chimpanzee and a picture of a black person. The same part of the brain lit up with both. The article went on to suggest that this makes all people inherently rascist which I considered to be absolute arse!

As has already been said earlier in this thread, I think Letitia Dean looks like Miss Piggy!

And I also consider humans to be well-tooled up monkeys. For me I only have to look at people having an argument, the body language, the screaming etc, then watch footage of chimps disagreeing, I find little difference.

From Robert Anton Wilson's "Schrödinger's Cat Trilogy"


I know what you mean... if you can just de focus from the words they are saying and your familiarity of them... you can see them how another animal would and it is very ape like....

[izzy]

yes i know pretty amazing huh .. elephants can problem solve too and they ahve emtion as do the bonobo apes .. apes can problem solve and so can monkeys ..

but some birds are dead smart .. ilove birds they are dinosaurs i love that they are the only living dinosaurs

[izzy]

if you can just de focus from the words they are saying and your familiarity of them... you can see them how another animal would and it is very ape like....

yes you only have to look into the eyes of a gorilla or a chimpanzee or an orangutan they are so like us ..

[mercuryrapids]

yes i know pretty amazing huh .. elephants can problem solve too and they ahve emtion as do the bonobo apes .. apes can problem solve and so can monkeys ..

but some birds are dead smart .. ilove birds they are dinosaurs i love that they are the only living dinosaurs

I read somewhere that elephants are the only other mammals that cry tears of grief...

...and, yes, birds are cool, being dinosaurs that crap on your car after you've just washed it! :)

[thirdwave]

good question .. i dont know not a biologist ..

i have no problem accepting i am an ape , or my body is that of an ape .. as we all are ...though i love my cousins the orangutan gorilla bonbos and chimps ..

I accept that we most defiantly share smiler genetics with apes and that some of our DNA has the same program so to speak... Im just not convinced there is not apart of us that is completely alien to that of an ape.

[izzy]

I read somewhere that elephants are the only other mammals that cry tears of grief...

...and, yes, birds are cool, being dinosaurs that crap on your car after you've just washed it! :)
yes . they are very beautiful and they grieve .. it is true , though bonobos also show emtions like grief in a very human way .

[supertzar]

Why not call this thread "Let's abuse logic itself!"

[izzy]

I accept that we most defiantly share smiler genetics with apes and that some of our DNA has the same program so to speak... Im just not convinced there is not apart of us that is completely alien to that of an ape.

do you mean there is a part of us that is alien to the ape .. im sure you are right about that ..

[izzy]

Why not call this thread "Let's abuse logic itself!"

i agree

[mercuryrapids]

Bonobos are capable of passing the mirror-recognition test for self-awareness. They communicate through primarily vocal means, although the meanings of their vocalizations are not currently known. However, most humans do understand their facial expressions and some of their natural hand gestures, such as their invitation to play. Two Bonobos at the Great Ape Trust, Kanzi and Panbanisha, have been taught a vocabulary of over 3,000 words which they can type using a special keyboard of lexigrams (geometric symbols), and they can respond to spoken sentences. Some, such as philosopher and bioethicist Peter Singer, argue that these results qualify them for the "rights to survival and life," rights that humans theoretically accord to all persons.

Like I said, we are apes... ;)

[supertzar]

Actually, Izzy, you are one of the ones I am talking about. I have no problem with the original post.

[izzy]

Actually, Izzy, you are one of the ones I am talking about. I have no problem with the original post.

haha id love to hear what is illogical about being a mammal

all mammals are animals

therfore you are an animal we all are - that is pure logic

plus i said we were evolved from the same common ancestor as apes .. id love to know what is illogical about that

Plus what is illogical about 5 great apes having a common ancestor ...

LOVE TO KNOW AND FOR YOU TO EDUCATE US ALL:D

[izzy]

It's shocking how ignorant some people are about evolutionary biology. I make no claims as to the veracity of the theory, but according to mainstream science humans are neither apes nor are they descended from apes. In the mainstream scientific opinion humans and apes developed seperately from a common ancestor.

is nt it illogocal that you agree that science believes we have a common ancestor but when i say we have ... oh yes .. a common ancestor .. you call me illogical ..

is nt that an illogocal thing for you to say :D:D

[supertzar]

all mammals are animals

This is not true. Humans are not considered animals.

[supertzar]

Furthermore, it is illogical to say that because humans and apes developed from a common ancestor, all humans are apes. You might as well say all apes are humans. Or that all cabbages are cauliflowers.

[krakhead]

This is not true. Humans are not considered animals.

Who by?

[supertzar]

The world?!

[izzy]

The world?!
umm well thanks for your '' LOGIC '' very comprehensive ... :eek:

I AM AN APE WE ARE APES YOU ARE APE:rolleyes: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL MAMMALS ARE ANIMALS - HUMANS ARE MAMMAL - THEREFORE ???

yep you got it - pure logic ..

haha

[krakhead]

The world?!

Not reeeeally! I just asked the three people in the room with me and we all concur that humans are, indeed, animals.

Just clever ones with iPhones


(the three people being marpat, thirdwave and braindamagedd btw. We're holding a black mass! ;))

[izzy]

Furthermore, it is illogical to say that because humans and apes developed from a common ancestor, all humans are apes. You might as well say all apes are humans. Or that all cabbages are cauliflowers.


its science and its not some conspiracy theory either .. and its not me saying that it is biologists .. do you know more about biology then biologists ?

[izzy]

Not reeeeally! I just asked the three people in the room with me and we all concur that humans are, indeed, animals.

Just clever ones with iPhones


(the three people being marpat, thirdwave and braindamagedd btw. We're holding a black mass! ;))

yea black mass very ape like - i rest my case !

[supertzar]

The difference between humans and animals could be seen as a matter of opinion. Given your opinion that all mammals are animals, it is logical to conclude that humans are animals, but since the opinion is untrue by widely accepted standards, the conclusion is false. Logical and false.

It is definitely illogical is saying that because humans and apes developed from a common ancestor, all humans are apes.

[lookfar]

its science and its not some conspiracy theory either .. and its not me saying that it is biologists .. do you know more about biology then biologists ?

But what about the missing link that's never been found, doesn't really say much for the biologists who are backing this theory does it?:)

[supertzar]

its science and its not some conspiracy theory either .. and its not me saying that it is biologists .. do you know more about biology then biologists ?

I feel sorry for you. :o

[izzy]

I feel sorry for you. :o

haha you are hilarious :D:D:D

[element]

When will all those common ancerstors be found?

I think Supertzar has shown your not really logical Izzy:D
It's a bit like saying all birds and mammals come from dinosaurs, therefor all birds are mammals...

[krakhead]

Given your opinion that all mammals are animals, it is logical to conclude that humans are animals, but since the opinion is untrue by widely accepted standards, the conclusion is false.

Who by, what standards, where do 'they' say this?

[supertzar]

No, I'm not hilarious. You don't understand the mainstream theory, izzy, but you think you do.

[supertzar]

Who by, what standards, where do 'they' say this?

Just google human animal difference.

[izzy]

The difference between humans and animals could be seen as a matter of opinion. Given your opinion that all mammals are animals, it is logical to conclude that humans are animals, but since the opinion is untrue by widely accepted standards, the conclusion is false. Logical and false.




has anyone ever explained to you that opinion is not logic so again i rest my case you were being illogical , it is not my opinion taht we are mammals ... we are .. it is not my opinion that all mammals are animals - they are ... :confused: wipes sweat from brow ,,,,,,

what are you are you borg .. seriously what are you the rest of us are mammals ... and if we are mammals we are animals ...

you are not grasping the concept of logic .. logic is 2 follows 1 or that b follows a ...

opinion and logic are different - opinion does not depend on facts it is emotive - such as what you are saying now - it does not need a factual basis ..

logic is based on factual deduction

[izzy]

Just google human animal difference.

can i ask what type of being you are - seriously ?

[supertzar]

Wow. :confused:

[izzy]

No, I'm not hilarious. You don't understand the mainstream theory, izzy, but you think you do.


you are just arguing for arguments sake and you are hilarious :D

[krakhead]

But what about the missing link that's never been found, doesn't really say much for the biologists who are backing this theory does it?:)

I thought the idea of there being a 'missing link' fossil for any evolutionary transition had been shown to be a falsehood?

Something to do with the evolutionary process that I have read about and forgotten! Sorry! :o

[thetonic]

we may not be 'apes' per say , but we are certainly no better/superior than them or any other creature on this planet..

[thirdwave]

do you mean there is a part of us that is alien to the ape .. im sure you are right about that ..

yes very much so...

I think in some ways it may well be the reptilian thing... mixed.

[krakhead]

Just google human animal difference.

I did.

The first page was a wiki page, the first line of which was -

Human beings, or humans (Homo sapiens — Latin: "wise human" or "knowing human"[2]) are bipedal primates in the family Hominidae.[3][4]

Definition of 'primate'

primate 1
Noun
a mammal with flexible hands and feet and a highly developed brain, such as a monkey, an ape, or a human being

Definition of 'mammal'

mam·mal (mml)
n.
Any of various warm-blooded vertebrate animals of the class Mammalia, including humans, characterized by a covering of hair on the skin and, in the female, milk-producing mammary glands for nourishing the young.

PWN3D!!!11!! ;)

[izzy]

haha :D

[supertzar]

Animal
1. any member of the kingdom Animalia, comprising multicellular organisms that have a well-defined shape and usually limited growth, can move voluntarily, actively acquire food and digest it internally, and have sensory and nervous systems that allow them to respond rapidly to stimuli: some classification schemes also include protozoa and certain other single-celled eukaryotes that have motility and animallike nutritional modes.
2. any such living thing other than a human being.

Humans can only be considered animals in the most obtuse sense of the word. When people say 'animal' it is understood that they are speaking of creatures other than humans.

[krakhead]

Animal
1. any member of the kingdom Animalia, comprising multicellular organisms that have a well-defined shape and usually limited growth, can move voluntarily, actively acquire food and digest it internally, and have sensory and nervous systems that allow them to respond rapidly to stimuli: some classification schemes also include protozoa and certain other single-celled eukaryotes that have motility and animallike nutritional modes.
2. any such living thing other than a human being.

Humans can only be considered animals in the most obtuse sense of the word. When people say 'animal' it is understood that they are speaking of creatures other than human.

And that quote is from....................?

[supertzar]

dictionary.com

[krakhead]

dictionary.com

Then it appears we have arrived at a semantic impasse! :D

[element]

I did.

The first page was a wiki page, the first line of which was -



Definition of 'primate'



Definition of 'mammal'



PWN3D!!!11!! ;)

So you think there are no differences between humans and animals, while only checking some body similarities? :rolleyes:

[izzy]

i completely agree. i think part of our problem as a species is the fact that we think we are separate from every other living being, that we are superior. this kind of thinking is the reason that people have no respect for other sentient beings, and think we have the right to just consume every resource this planet has to offer with no concern for anything else that lives on it alongside us. it's just an ego trip of cosmic proportions.

the whole point of infinite consciousness is that ALL consciousness combined creates infinite energy, not just OUR consciousness. the fact that we happen to inhabit a more capable vehicle than other lifeforms is irrelevant; it's the same spark of divine energy that makes everything from an amoeba to us alive.

most of us don't even understand our own consciousness, never mind that of anything else. it's like trying to measure the unmeasurable. we build stuff, animals don't. this actually tells us nothing about the nature of consciousness, only matter.

it makes no difference whatsoever what we evolved from, or whether we were deliberately constructed in this form. whatever we are, we're here on this planet on our own individual journeys, just like every other creature. some of us are walking, some of us are on pushbikes and some of us are flying. we all get to the same place in the end.

yea that is what i think too actually

[krakhead]

So you think there are no differences between humans and animals, while only checking some body similarities? :rolleyes:

I don't see us as being totally separate from the rest of the animal kingdom.

We're better at communicating (at times!) and we have better tool making skills.

To see humans as being separate from the rest of the animal kingdom strikes me as supremely arrogant.

We are hairless primates and, apart from special occasions, act as such.

[izzy]

When will all those common ancerstors be found?

I think Supertzar has shown your not really logical Izzy:D
It's a bit like saying all birds and mammals come from dinosaurs, therefor all birds are mammals...

super is super illogical and is resorting to feeling ' sorry for me ; and announcing it on a public forum to indicate his superiority and my supposedly illogical brain and to diminish what i am saying - which is a personal attack ...

Super I LOVE YOU YOU ARE AMAZING YOU ARE SO GORGEOUS :rolleyes:


It's a bit like saying all birds and mammals come from dinosaurs, therefor all birds are mammals

I DID NT SAY THIS YOU DID ...

and birds are dinosaurs

[supertzar]

Logic is based on variables, by the way, which are what facts are in a statement. It has nothing to do with the objective reality outside the statement. For example one could say crumps and dibbles were both developed from zozzers, therefore both crumps and dibbles share a common heritage. That would be logical within the frame of reference (the variables.) It would be illogical to conclude that because crumps and dibbles were developed from zozzers, all crumps are dibbles.

[izzy]

I don't see us as being totally separate from the rest of the animal kingdom.

We're better at communicating (at times!) and we have better tool making skills.

To see humans as being separate from the rest of the animal kingdom strikes me as supremely arrogant.

We are hairless primates and, apart from special occasions, act as such.

that is exactly what i was trying to say

[izzy]

Logic is based on variables, by the way, which are what facts are in a statement. It has nothing to do with the objective reality outside the statement. For example one could say crumps and dibbles were both developed from zozzers, therefore both crumps and dibbles share a common heritage. That would be logical within the frame of reference (the variables.) It would be illogical to conclude that because crumps and dibbles were developed from zozzers, all crumps are dibbles.

did i tell you that i love you ..

[element]

super is super illogical and is resorting to feeling ' sorry for me ; and announcing it on a public forum to indicate his superiority and my supposedly illogical brain and to diminish what i am saying - which is a personal attack ...

Super I LOVE YOU YOU ARE AMAZING YOU ARE SO GORGEOUS :rolleyes:



Aaahh we're gonna play the victim role now? :D

[izzy]

Aaahh we're gonna play the victim role now? :D

ok ok ...

i love you too ...:rolleyes:

[krakhead]

Logic is based on variables, by the way, which are what facts are in a statement. It has nothing to do with the objective reality outside the statement. For example one could say crumps and dibbles were both developed from zozzers, therefore both crumps and dibbles share a common heritage. That would be logical within the frame of reference (the variables.) It would be illogical to conclude that because crumps and dibbles were developed from zozzers, all crumps are dibbles.

LMAO! You alright? ;) :p

[supertzar]

I just think it's important to understand logic.

[jhado]

I apologise for not having read much of this thread.

However, when I first visited Australia in 1977,(OOOOH Jhado's really old.)
We went ashore and one of the lads was as black 2 in the morning, he was Joe from African descent and one of us. Walking around Sydney that day was an eye-opener for me. These folks weren't used to seeing a Negro walking their streets. Their heads were spinning .But as I said, he was one of us , ergo, no problems.

On later visits to Oz I learned, and saw ,how they treated the native Australians. Rhodes would have been proud.

[informationx]

6. If humans evolved from apes then why are there still apes?

Humans did not evolve from present-day apes. Rather, humans and apes share a common ancestor that gave rise to both. This common ancestor, although not identical to modern apes, was almost certainly more apelike than humanlike in appearance and behavior. At some point -- scientists estimate that between 5 and 8 million years ago -- this species diverged into two distinct lineages, one of which were the hominids, or humanlike species, and the other ultimately evolved into the African great ape species living today.

from

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat03.html

[mercuryrapids]

While the dictionary definitions of 'animal' vary (one of the definitions on dictionary.com says: animal - 1 [ˈӕniməl] noun - a living being which can feel things and move freely - Example: man and other animals ), the scientific definition of an animal is something other than a vegetable or mineral. As humans are neither vegetables or minerals, we MUST be animals.

This argument is getting circular.

[supertzar]

I'd probably love you, too, izzy. It's alright. :)

While watching the film "Till the End of the World" my friend commented that aborigines don't look much like people. I said they may be more human than any of us.

Stewart Swerdlow says the different peoples of the Earth were genetically influenced by different alien groups who wished to gain advantage over the other aliens. In this view humanity is a joint product of a number of alien species, ostensibly to find out if their various DNA could be joined to create a new race. The base of all humans is reptilian. Some of the various influences are: Slavs are Tau Cetian. Native Americans are Procyons. Blacks are Annunaki. Hebrews are Sirian (B's I think, could be A's.) Many others. I could probably look it up if anyone is interested.

[northern_light]

http://www.zoltron.com/apes/images/apes.jpg

L O L !

About the "we are apes " subject, I have to say I strongly disagree. While microevolution may be true, macroevolution is a load of bull in my opinion. I don't agree with the Darwinian model at all. I like what the Hopi say about the apes: "They are relatives, not our ancestors." I could go on and on about the theory of evolution, but that belongs in another thread.

To answer the original question: No, I do not think that would make you a racist, as long as, like Montag mentioned, you don't have the intent to be racist. I think the subject of race has been blown way out of proportion and has become an extremely sensitive issue, especially in the US, where they also have a unbelievable doublestandard in my opinion. Black skinned professor says" "exterminate all white people" and barely a spark, a white skinned human mentions something about nappyheaded ho's and the whole country goes ballistic. So yes, be careful when talking about anything that implies race or racism, especially about African Americans(history), or you will most likely be labelled as a racist unfortunately. That's just how it is nowadays.

EDIT: *Opinion* Stewart Swerdlow is either a disinfo agent, controlled via his microchips or he's in it for the money.

[supertzar]

You may be right about Stewart, but when I met him he told me things that verified his abilities in my opinion.

[izzy]

L O L !

I like what the Hopi say about the apes:.

i was thinking about this earlier today i love the native american philosophy that talks about '' all our relatives in the air the sea and the land - ALL OUR RELATIONS ''

I love that and that is where i am coming from and that is how i see life and the world and all those who populate it - mammals or not - as ALL MY RELATIONS

[mynameis]

http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/telebuddy/archives/caveman.jpg

Quite frankly I find the term ape rude and offense! Now I've lost my appetite. You people.


lol

[izzy]

6. If humans evolved from apes then why are there still apes?

Humans did not evolve from present-day apes. Rather, humans and apes share a common ancestor that gave rise to both. This common ancestor, although not identical to modern apes, was almost certainly more apelike than humanlike in appearance and behavior. At some point -- scientists estimate that between 5 and 8 million years ago -- this species diverged into two distinct lineages, one of which were the hominids, or humanlike species, and the other ultimately evolved into the African great ape species living today.

from

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat03.html

and the orangutans they are indonesia and Borneo

[smariot]

Humans are animals. Everything on Earth is either animal, vegetable or mineral. I'm presuming you're not a vegetable or mineral, so you must be an animal, like the rest of us.

...

Fungi are recognized as having their own kingdom separate from plants or animals. Fungi was once considered to be related closely to plants, but now they are known to be in fact more closely related to animals.

[cleopatraxxx]

us humans like to think we are more superior then animals. lol

unfortunately humans do think that, feel that, act like if they were Gods...
what a disgrace.

[cleopatraxxx]

i stopped reading this topic somewhere on the 4th page...
i am presently listening to MUSIC and WOW! although i agree that cats, dogs, dolphins and other intelligent animals are wise, the human being was gifted with the ABILITY TO CREATE, for example MUSIC.... when truly well done it is magnificent...so of course there is something wonderful that humans have...teh creative ability of MAKING something that affects others for good. unfortunately the same goes for the creation of the atomic bomb and poisonous things in detriment of both humans and the whole planet themselves.... would it be for purposes of balancing extremes? then WHY?????
...

[cleopatraxxx]

i was thinking about this earlier today i love the native american philosophy that talks about '' all our relatives in the air the sea and the land - ALL OUR RELATIONS ''

I love that and that is where i am coming from and that is how i see life and the world and all those who populate it - mammals or not - as ALL MY RELATIONS

very clever

dont destroy if you don't want to be destroyed..e.i.
do to others what you would like others to do to you...

doesn't matter where humans originate from
matters what humans create for the good of all

[kblood]

In the ends it is all about definition. We could define humans as having higher conciousness than animals, since we can use our brain in more advanced way than the most animals. No other known animals have been found to be able to do algebra and such. So we could define humans as something else than animals, or we could define ourselves as animals.

I would say that we are advanced animals, which in the end makes it our duty to protect and respect the life of other animals. I would find that as good use of our intelligence, but alas I like most end up being selfish and not really doing much to change it.

As for the having a common ancestor as apes... doesnt that alone say that we in fact are not apes? Rodents... there are many distinctions of these. How about horses and dogs? They probably have common ancestors as well. That doesnt makes dogs horses or the other way around does it?

When it comes to DNA, we are also very closely related to pigs. Maybe even more so than apes. Doctors have been trying to find ways to make pigs able to become heart donors for humans and maybe other intestines as well. Im not saying neither pigs or we would want that, but it shows how closely the DNA matches.

So DNA alone doesnt really say much. Yes we are similar to apes, and we are animals according to most definitions. Still calling us apes have no basis in science or biology. They are another branch of the same tree at most. Why they havent evolved more when it comes to abstract thinking, I guess that has to do with the spiritual part of our beings.

As for Darwin, the problem with his theory is what it lead to. Instead of animals being equal to humans, it became the excuse to say humans, and especially some races of humans were equal to animals. It was even ranked, and I think they also came to the conclusion that Europeans were the least animal of the humans, followed by asians, and africans were at the bottom. So they had their slave trade justified. Not that it kept them from using some Europeans as slaves either.

I agree that we should instead go the other way and show other animals as much respect as we show humans. I also agree that we are all part of the same, and all part of a greater conciousness. All life is sacred. That we have higher intelligence than other animals gives us more choices of good and evil, which gives us more responsibility to be responsible about it. At the same time it makes us very capable of being worse than other animals and I would have to say, less deserving of life even. Then again, I dont believe life is something that is to be deserved. Its just there. And it seems enevitable to me that good doesnt come out of it in some way.

[kblood]

unfortunately humans do think that, feel that, act like if they were Gods...
what a disgrace.

Then again, where would we be now if none of us did? We have been blessed with abilities to create, more so than most animals. We should make as much use of it as possible, to make good.

The disgrace as I see it, is to take everything we have for granting, and us as masters of this planet. That since we are the most powerfull beings we know of here, we got the right to do whatever we please with the planet, its resources and other lifeforms.

At least we do show some self restraint, and many strive to make sure that we dont just do whatever we can to have new scientific breakthroughs or empty our planet of resources. I hope that we will keep getting better at our self moderation.

[romas]

There are five types of ape: gibbons, gorillas, chimpanzees, orang-utans and humans. We are more closely related to chimps than horses are to zebras.

That's the bottom line. Maybe we had out genetic code fiddled with way back when to make us the way we are now, but we are still members of the ape family.


Well I disagree, donkeys can mate with zebras, donkeys can mate with horses. Hybrid babies.

We can't make babies with any apes. We've got 2 chromosomes LESS, yet we think we're superior. We do not resemble any apes directly, while horses and zebras have very simmilar structure.

[izzy]

Well I disagree, donkeys can mate with zebras, donkeys can mate with horses. Hybrid babies.

We can't make babies with any apes. We've got 2 chromosomes LESS, yet we think we're superior. We do not resemble any apes directly, while horses and zebras have very simmilar structure.


romas did you read what i posted to explain the chromosomes .. this is the link

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30352&page=10

we do resemble apes ...

we are genetically more similar to apes then horses are to zebras ..

[izzy]

Well I disagree, donkeys can mate with zebras, donkeys can mate with horses. Hybrid babies.

We can't make babies with any apes. We've got 2 chromosomes LESS, yet we think we're superior. We do not resemble any apes directly, while horses and zebras have very simmilar structure.


did you open the link and see what we discussed about chromosomes on the other thread ?

we do resemble apes ...

we are as similar to apes as zebras are to horses .. physically

who knows if we could produce hybrids ? you dont .. i dont ... i bet some guy in a lab somewhere does though ,,,

[romas]

Talking about God can be a matter of belief. Talking about ghosts can be a matter of belief. Talking about telepathy can be a matter of belief. Talking about infinite consciousness can be a matter of belief. This is because there's little to no empirical evidence about those subjects (although many would argue about that).

There's a lot of evidence to show that humans are members of the ape family. We are animals. We are mammals. We are apes. I don't have a problem with that. :)


There are enough "gaps" and inconsistencies with 'facts'
There is missing link between cromagnon and homo sapiens, also what seems like unbelievably fast evolution compared that to previous stages.

Agains we're missing 2 chromosomes.

Why haven't any other species of apes progressed at any comparable rate? There were dozen species and still is today.

we've got some pretty useless things like nails etc, not very usefull in wilderness yes?

Also how come there aren't any links between mullusks and fish?(exoskelleton vs inside bones).

Dude you've been programmed. ;)

[amethyst]

Monkeys have monkeys...birdies have birdies.....kitty cats have kitty cats etc. etc.

humans have humans

except if they have been tampered with genetically and made into hybrids.

which is not supposed to happen anyway...but unfortunately does

That said, no monkey is my uncle

[izzy]

Dude you've been programmed. ;)

REALLY ! thanks for the update !

[romas]

did you open the link and see what we discussed about chromosomes on the other thread ?

we do resemble apes ...

we are as similar to apes as zebras are to horses .. physically

who knows if we could produce hybrids ? you dont .. i dont ... i bet some guy in a lab somewhere does though ,,,



That's right you don't know. It could be true or the guy could be payed up by the same reality creators you're discussing on this forum.

We do not resemble apes in the same way donkeys resembles horse, we're in animal form because that's most apropreate on this planet, hence our current dominance on the planet.

Our brains are totally different to that of the ape, this gap of evolution and separation from apes is not explained, hypothesis based on shit does not count as facts.

[romas]

Back on topic :)

I'm not racist, but when I checked BBC new couple times, I chuckled cause this guy does look like a mountain gorilla, big and wise one! :p

Robert Mugabe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[romas]

can some one please explain why alot of people on this thread think they are superior to animals and are not animals ..

are these people denying we are mammals ... if all mammals are animals .. then we are ANIMALS

we have a common ancestor with the great apes .. that does not mean we are descended from apes it means we have a common ancestor and we have all developed on different evolutionary paths ...

WE ARE APES ... why do people have a problem with this .. please explain so i understand your mindset .. a

the mind set that says the human species is not an animal not a mammal and not ana Ape ..

AND WHY DO YOU THINK THIS .. its not logical it does not make sense but i am curious to know:rolleyes:




I think you have to discern two things, having mammalian body does not = being animal. Yes our structure is very simmilar to apes, but neither of them move like we do, neither of them think like we do and I'm not saying we're better or worse, it should be clear as daylight we're totally different to all animals in our behaviour!

However we're all children of mother earth :)

[romas]

6. If humans evolved from apes then why are there still apes?

Humans did not evolve from present-day apes. Rather, humans and apes share a common ancestor that gave rise to both. This common ancestor, although not identical to modern apes, was almost certainly more apelike than humanlike in appearance and behavior. At some point -- scientists estimate that between 5 and 8 million years ago -- this species diverged into two distinct lineages, one of which were the hominids, or humanlike species, and the other ultimately evolved into the African great ape species living today.

from

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat03.html



This is exactly what I have problem with, people are so god damn programmed and really gulible that mere words "scientists" hypnotize them into believing anything.

The fact is you don't know shit, you've been baby fed with whatever they want you to believe. It's not paranoia, but you have to be honest with yourself and others, you take things word for word. As far as I know facts are tested in controlled envoiroment, otherwise it's a hypothesis?

Do you know who these scientists are? How exactly they make these estimates, who finances them? Oh that's right you forgot that scientists are often financed by private groups. Scientists are people to, alot of them still believe in man in the clouds religions, how does that compute for you logic freaks?

[particlezen]

I would say that we are advanced animals, which in the end makes it our duty to protect and respect the life of other animals. I would find that as good use of our intelligence, but alas I like most end up being selfish and not really doing much to change it.


As for Darwin, the problem with his theory is what it lead to. Instead of animals being equal to humans, it became the excuse to say humans, and especially some races of humans were equal to animals. It was even ranked, and I think they also came to the conclusion that Europeans were the least animal of the humans, followed by asians, and africans were at the bottom. So they had their slave trade justified. Not that it kept them from using some Europeans as slaves either.

I agree that we should instead go the other way and show other animals as much respect as we show humans. I also agree that we are all part of the same, and all part of a greater conciousness. All life is sacred. That we have higher intelligence than other animals gives us more choices of good and evil, which gives us more responsibility to be responsible about it. At the same time it makes us very capable of being worse than other animals and I would have to say, less deserving of life even. Then again, I dont believe life is something that is to be deserved. Its just there. And it seems enevitable to me that good doesnt come out of it in some way.


Exactly. Darwinism and Christianity are responsible for the fallacy that we have dominion over other life-forms, even each other. It's just reinforcing the programmed heirarchy that binds us all to get so lost in what is essentially a pointless argument. The only point of measurement is the ability to manipulate matter, and going along these lines you eventually end up in Nazi territory; if we are superior simply because we are "more intelligent", then logic dictates that we sub-divide humans accordingly - and there you have archaic basis of the class system.

It's interesting that animist societies, who have never been force-fed the superiority programming, respect all life, live in harmony with their environments and recognise the whole planet as a spiritual entity of which we are an indistinguishable part, albeit with a "care-takers" role.

I don't care if i'm an ape, or if i'm not. i am probably even less capable of doing algebra than a zebra. we're all different, but all living beings are endowed with consciousness and having respect for that is the only thing that really matters.

[mercuryrapids]

Oh, who really gives a shit, eh? :)

[celtic isis]

Exactly. Darwinism and Christianity are responsible for the fallacy that we have dominion over other life-forms, even each other. It's just reinforcing the programmed heirarchy that binds us all to get so lost in what is essentially a pointless argument. The only point of measurement is the ability to manipulate matter, and going along these lines you eventually end up in Nazi territory; if we are superior simply because we are "more intelligent", then logic dictates that we sub-divide humans accordingly - and there you have archaic basis of the class system.

It's interesting that animist societies, who have never been force-fed the superiority programming, respect all life, live in harmony with their environments and recognise the whole planet as a spiritual entity of which we are an indistinguishable part, albeit with a "care-takers" role.

I don't care if i'm an ape, or if i'm not. i am probably even less capable of doing algebra than a zebra. we're all different, but all living beings are endowed with consciousness and having respect for that is the only thing that really matters.

great stuff from particlezen and kblood, i take my hat off to you both :)

[manjosa]

The lack of our knowlegde leads to these discussions.
It also shows the desperate need for understanding.
That is one of the biggest reasons why knowledge is hidden and surpressed.

Thanks to the biologists and other scientists we know that there is a missing link.

The one real good explanation that I read in this thread is the starseed from Stewart Serdlow it think Supertzar mentioned it.

I read a similar fascinating story in the book: no more secrets, no more lies from Patricia Cori. A 6 dimensional channeling from Sirius.

4 races on earth, black, red, yellow and white. All from different starsystems, blended by the higher realm with each 12 dna strands. Mixed with the 5th element, the homo erectus. We all have mixtures of all these races in us, for pro-creation purposes. We all were aware of this and in agreement, we all knew our history, where we came from, why we were here, we were in total knowledge.This was done in the highest realms.

Until.. the annunaki came and they made 10 of our 12 dna strands inoperable, so that our knowledge would be suppressed. We became perfect slaves, with no knowledge where we came from and what we basically are.
All we have to do is open ourselves up to regain the hidden knowledge deep inside of us. With the help of our cosmic changes, the energies that help us with that is what is happening to us right now. We are evolving spiritually in a fast mode. The time is here and now.

[hokhmah]

Hey, please lets hear it for the other side.

I think that apes, chimpanzees and monkeys would be well pissed off accepting that they are descended from human beings or behaving like human beings in any way shape or form - cuz you don't see them polluting and ravaging the planet, starting wars, and ***king one another over for a goddamn percentage!

If this is the best that the twisted, corrupt, lunatic human race can do,

then I wanna be a dolphin...

[hokhmah]

To get back to the original question from FAYETTE, who asked whether it was 'racist' to think that black-African Americans resemble apes?

DEBDARE, you said: "Lots of different people of any race can resemble any animal. The human brain recognises faces and certain images and compares these images to what we already know." An excellent point.

Merely 'thinking' that the physical appearance of people from other races resemble animals is NOT racist. We all look at other people in the street, and in comparison to ourselves, we may think that, that person is fat, that person is skinny, that person is too tall or too short etc. We compare things that we see with past experience and images stored away in our brain.

To THINK these things is not fattist, or thinist, or tallist or racist; it is our right to think freely and form and express personal opinions within our own minds about what our eyes are seeing.

Ok, SAYING out loud that black African-Americans resemble apes, with the intent to wilfully deride, mock, offend, cause harm, intimidate or bully black people, or any person from a race different to our own, would be racist.

Also, this works both ways - black people, and indeed people of all the non-white races, are just as entitled to think that white people resemble animals in exactly the same way.

To me, human beings are human beings, people are people. The race issue is complete mind-controlling bullshit anyway!

People of different races only look different to one another purely as a consequence of adaptation to local surroundings i.e. how near or far away from the equator their ancestors lived - nothing more.

Today, the PTB have the act of fomenting racial (and religious) tensions betwen different ethnic / racial groups (using the controlled press and media) down to a fine art!!

They have used race (and religion) as a very powerful divide and conquer tactic for a long time now, further fragmenting nations, steering them away from from being ONE. Whilst they play each race off against one another, the PTB are still there hiding in the shadows, manipulating and controlling (and counting their money).

All this race / racist / racial crap has been carefully engineered by the PTB to divide people into still smaller, more controllable 'ethnic' groups. They fear large numbers of people all having one united voice and working together in the same direction - that is what this is all about.

I would liken the PTB to a stinking, diseased, cesspool of rotting faeces.

I was gonna say like a pack of diseased rats, but I wouldn't wanna insult rats!

[romas]

It's all about intent.

[krakhead]

It's all about intent.

Isn't EVERYTHING! :)

[blane777]

Isn't EVERYTHING! :)

No it's about choices.

[krakhead]

No it's about choices.

OK, how about the INTENT behind your choices?

[montag]

can some one please explain why alot of people on this thread think they are superior to animals and are not animals ..

Well which animals are you talking about? Because obviously the animal in your avatar is held in much higher esteem than say a lowly pig which we'll quite happily munch away on for breakfast along side our chicken eggs. It is all relative, so until we begin to hold all life in this same high esteem the point you raised is moot.

[izzy]

Well which animals are you talking about? Because obviously the animal in your avatar is held in much higher esteem than say a lowly pig which we'll quite happily munch away on for breakfast along side our chicken eggs. It is all relative, so until we begin to hold all life in this same high esteem the point you raised is moot.

actually not by me .. the pig and the dolphin are all my relations .. i love them equally

[montag]

actually not by me .. the pig and the dolphin are all my relations .. i love them equally
Well you may but as a general rule pigs are treated pretty poorly.

[izzy]

Well you may but as a general rule pigs are treated pretty poorly.

i realise this !!!
as are most life forms on this planet - including us !

but when people IF people wake up and i do not mean to conspiracy theories but to a state where we all increase our consciousness .. none of us could abuse each other or other creatures