Mindfuck-TRAP -What to do ???

[neomichi]

Hello everybody,

since my last "hot" and first thread where I asked: "Why do "they" let David do, what he does", I got many replies and I used the last few days to think a lot about everything. Maybe "thinking" is the problem?

If I understood you guys right, "we" (I) do create our reality "OURSELFES" (myself). What I beliefe, comes to reality. Right?
But that leads to the confusing conclusion, that in a strange (and this is all VERY strange) kind of sense, David is finally helping "THEM" !!???! Why? Because he makes us believe (and I really started to believe what David says, since I read his books) that this stuff is all true. And when we start to believe more and more, exactly this comes to reality. Right? So it is really a MIND-TRAP !?! What to do? Believe it or not? What would happen if (we) I wouldn`t believe it? Would it change anything? My personal experience (exept when I was on psylos five years ago) is, that it doesn`t matter if I believe, it will happen anyway. I couldn`t believe, that they would crash the WTC, but it HAPPENED without my believe? The question now ist, WHAT can we (I) do? Create our own reality, and just living in love and ignore all that shit "outside"? Would THAT help to make a better world? I`m really confused. David says, he creates his own reality, but THEN his reality, what he has created means "convincing" people of the EVIL, what finally leads to the conclusion, he HELPS the evil?????????????

What to do???????????

HELP???? I really don`t know what to do or NOT to do. Is it even possible to do the right, or is there a way to LIVE BEYOND the "duality-trap". Is there a Morpheus anywhere "out" there, which can pull (us) me out, NOW ???????

Sometimes I really think I get mad with all this.

So my question for today is: WHAT and HOW can (we?) I DO ????

:eek:

[thegates_are_always_open]

David is not trying to convince anyone about anything

we make up our own mind

he is merely describing things and processes in history past and present

that have already occured

I think the best thing you could do is concentrate on positive constructive

thoughts and attempt to change your inner world before worrying about

the external world

the world is a summation of all of our fears and all of our paranoias and all

of our interior conflicts but the world is also a mirror for the good things

and the concealed Light force we possess inside..........the more

you try to shut down negative thoughts processes and u are absolutely

certain about future positive outcomes than these things will form the reality

of the Universe we will live in.............whatever shape that Universe will have

Most important thing is to change ourselves first

The fact that david exposes the reality of things for what it really is doesnt

make it worse or more real................. we are the answers we are looking for

if we are not certain about this than there's no point in discussing conspiracy

theories in the first place..............We are the Universe ultimate energy

driving force...............our sould.............our sparks of creation

[rossus]

i think you're right that david helps the NWO in that manner, that people worry about it more... make yet another useless obsession of the mind of it.
i don't think he does it on purpose though, because in infinite love is the only truth...
he explains that stuff is indeed really fucked up, but that worrying about it only makes it worse for yourself and others.

i think the best thing you could do is, find out a way to be happy with as less as possible, learn to accept life in all it's forms and shapes.
learn to love yourself, your friends and even your enemies as much as possible.
if your thoughts bug you too much, learn meditation.

meditation is a great way to find out, who you are.
and when you know who you are, you can stop thinking.. stop identifying with the dualistic reality.
this way all the energy that goes into identifying with thoughts & identifying with beliefs... doesn't get "stuck" anymore.

the result of that is that you will be much happier, much more free & much more loving (accepting) of life...

http://users.telenet.be/psy/muziek/learnmeditation/
here is an mp3-file which can teach you how to meditate.
if you are interested in learning meditation,
i recommend you take two pillows and sit on it with a straight back and your legs crossed a bit and use that mp3 file to guide you 3 to 5 times...
or more if you feel that you need it.

eventually, you'll get better at it and it will become very easy.
i recommend you do it every day at least one session of 30 to 50 minutes though... at least in the beginning for a good kickstart.


i wish you the best, whatever you do :)

[the norseman]

Neomichi,

I wouldn't worry about these points too much. At the expense of upsetting the "I am me, I am reality" people - this so called physical world does run a lot deeper than any of us know, we are in this dimension and there may well be other dimensions of being and consciousness, I do not know.

But........ I have never read so much twoddle in all my life.

I alway laugh when I read or hear people say "just dont let it be part of your reality" or other such bullshit. Like you say, it does NOT stop one single action from taking place and if you ask me - these thoughts cause apathy and lack of action in many ways, and allow those that want to steam roll over the masses and even those are so called awake. It is an excuse for any real action or political will.

Statements like this are utterly meaningless in discussions such as these:

"I think the best thing you could do is concentrate on positive constructive
thoughts and attempt to change your inner world before worrying about
the external world the world is a summation of all of our fears and all of our paranoias and all of our interior conflicts but the world is also a mirror for the good things and the concealed Light force we possess inside"

and:

"i think the best thing you could do is, find out a way to be happy with as less as possible, learn to accept life in all it's forms and shapes.
learn to love yourself, your friends and even your enemies as much as possible"

No, the best thing that people can do is say enough is enough. I am sure everyone is sick of the sleeze in the so called people that run the countries. Sick of seeing some overweight controlled mason telling us how we should lead our lives (which is always for the benefit of the global elite), many of the people I would guess who are so called awake will look at the latest news items and think, "doesnt anyone say or do something?" and as I said in another thread YOU ARE that anyone.

If you bury your head in the sand and say I will love it away or imagine it away it will never go away. People need to research and educate themselves and bring about real change for the many. This is done by groups of like minded people forming coherent collective bonds and educating people through the various mediums out there. Be that speaking, leaflets, the internet etc.

I am not saying do not love or practice the various virtues but these are only ever compliments to action and will. I really do not get where the thought of
"learn to accept" and "attempt to change your inner world first" became so in vogue at the expense of actually doing. You are reading the research of Mr Icke because he refused to accept. Granted you do want to change your inner world and learn to love etc but this is as a compliment to the real self will to cause change.

Fear is something not to be feared it is an instinctive energy response that can be re-directed for the positive be this action or thought processes. We all know about the inverted U bell curve graph for stress and arousal. You have to remain detatched and take an outside looking in view and you will see that you can see a lot of things from a multiple of angles and perspectives.

Once you can see things for what they are, what next? Form groups of like minded people, start to educate yourself deeper and concentrate on teaching your fellow man in langauage concepts within the realms of understanding and start a sweeping change throughout this world.

A modern re-naissance if you like.

The Norseman.

[oneofmany]

Hello everybody,

since my last "hot" and first thread where I asked: "Why do "they" let David do, what he does", I got many replies and I used the last few days to think a lot about everything. Maybe "thinking" is the problem?

If I understood you guys right, "we" (I) do create our reality "OURSELFES" (myself). What I beliefe, comes to reality. Right?
But that leads to the confusing conclusion, that in a strange (and this is all VERY strange) kind of sense, David is finally helping "THEM" !!???! Why? Because he makes us believe (and I really started to believe what David says, since I read his books) that this stuff is all true. And when we start to believe more and more, exactly this comes to reality. Right? So it is really a MIND-TRAP !?! What to do? Believe it or not? What would happen if (we) I wouldn`t believe it? Would it change anything? My personal experience (exept when I was on psylos five years ago) is, that it doesn`t matter if I believe, it will happen anyway. I couldn`t believe, that they would crash the WTC, but it HAPPENED without my believe? The question now ist, WHAT can we (I) do? Create our own reality, and just living in love and ignore all that shit "outside"? Would THAT help to make a better world? I`m really confused. David says, he creates his own reality, but THEN his reality, what he has created means "convincing" people of the EVIL, what finally leads to the conclusion, he HELPS the evil?????????????

What to do???????????

HELP???? I really don`t know what to do or NOT to do. Is it even possible to do the right, or is there a way to LIVE BEYOND the "duality-trap". Is there a Morpheus anywhere "out" there, which can pull (us) me out, NOW ???????

Sometimes I really think I get mad with all this.

So my question for today is: WHAT and HOW can (we?) I DO ????

:eek:Sounds like you need an instant shot of 5 dried grams of psilocybin mushrooms my friend. sit back, relax and enjoy your trip. I believe you will truly find that this beats the shit out of Morpheus's red pill

[thegates_are_always_open]

Neomichi,
No, the best thing that people can do is say enough is enough. I am sure everyone is sick of the sleeze in the so called people that run the countries. Sick of seeing some overweight controlled mason telling us how we should lead our lives

It is not helpful merely recitating enough is enough or we are tired of fat

controlled puppets telling us how we should live our lives............

when u rebel for the sake of rebelling alone but dont offer an alternative or

have a sense of how to correctly direct your rebellion then u are not

accomplishing anything..........it is just your ego responding to theirs

Until we respond to problems in a reactive way rather than a proactive way,

indulging our ego impulses we cant aspire to change the world

U cant change the world if u dont first change yourself

if you are cynical and aggressive then expect the world to be that way

I think that most people who read david's book are convinced that it is

and US and THEM problem but its not............ an expression of darkness even

littlest one can be found anywhere including ourselves ..............our job

is to eradicate it by being kind to others and loving unconditionally even

our "enemies"

when we modify are crooked characteristics the gates of heaven open

for us.............We are the keys

[the norseman]

the_gates_are_always_open,

Thanks for the reply and I do agree in part. The quote you supplied from my post is a little out of context because you go further to say:

"when u rebel for the sake of rebelling alone but dont offer an alternative or have a sense of how to correctly direct your rebellion then u are not accomplishing anything"

because alternatives have been offered and a sense of directing the so called "rebellion" is what is being discussed in another thread on this site but collective effort and direction is required.

I disagree with your statement:

"Until we respond to problems in a reactive way rather than a proactive way,
indulging our ego impulses we cant aspire to change the world"

I think both are valid concepts and ways to bring about change - surely it depends on the problems at hand - we know about the so called global conspiracy etc and a proactive approach certainly has its place if we constantly wait for problems to arise and then only react then we will never change the heart of the problem and real change will never manifest. Wanting change (not MY change) is not an ego impulse on our parts. Many of us here have come to places like these as we want change for ourselves and allow others to be educated for change also.

Who said we necessarily need to change ourselves from the beginning? I am not saying we are perfect far from it - but maybe we as individuals are evolved enough in order to start making progress as a group. We can continue to develop ourselves as we walk this journey but to not do anything until we are at our higher state of being is wrong because 99.99999% of people will never do anything.

"our job is to eradicate it by being kind to others and loving unconditionally even our "enemies" when we modify are crooked characteristics the gates of heaven open for us.............We are the keys"

Many people that do read David's books do have the "us and them attitude" because it is partly true. We are only the answer to the world mess if others catch on - for them to catch on - they need to be educated in a way that they understand. 99% of people have spent their lives unspritually, unintellectually - they are dosed up on neurotoxins, manufactured food, fear and huge amounts of over stimulation, entertainment and distractions. To go out and tell them to "love" and that "the answers lie in the perceptions of reality" is bullshit because it will lead 99% of people no where. The us and them attitude is the hook to catch the attention, spark the interest of education. People then invariably go deeper it is just like an onion with layers. Many people like to talk about only the centre even though over the course of their research they have had the benefit it layering their knowledge - the masses have to have this benefit too and for that information has to be diseminated by us in its rawest simplest form.

I am sure most can see that.

To imagine / focus on an ideal world may well help if the entire human psyche was focused, I dont know - but the entire human psyche will not be focused anytime soon and while we are waiting for that to happen, more people die, more people are unhappy, the elite have more power at our expense, civil liberties and freedoms are further eroded and more people continue to live just as a shell hell bent on satisfying their self destructive lust for entertainment and so called modern living never knowing the real story.

People have been talking about your approach to these problems since biblical times and perhaps even beyond, but you can follow the social decay and change since that time and actually see that it has got a lot worse.

Again, Proactive means such as education, study groups etc and a collective effort is required. You could say that the proactive approach that I suggest is the reactive approach that you suggest to the problem of awakening the masses.

The Norseman.

[bigus_dickus]

So my question for today is: WHAT and HOW can (we?) I DO ????

:eek:

well, what do you want to do?

[auron]

How about millions of like minded people all agree at the same time to do mushrooms? Imagine the power of love that would be created all around the world! :)

I'm sure that is the only practical answer, but then again how do you go about organizing something like that?:confused:

[a fine naked fellow]

Just a quick word, awareness and knowledge is never negative.
Haven’t for many long years, the lack of awareness of conspiracy worked for it?
So being aware of it does not add to its power. ;)

[pollock]

Just a quick word, awareness and knowledge is never negative.
Haven’t for many long years, the lack of awareness of conspiracy worked for it?
So being aware of it does not add to its power. ;)

Quite, and as one of the "I am me, I am reality" people (whatever thats supposed to mean) I must say that there has not been a time in history when as many people have been able to do something about the corruption as today simply because of the information available.
I think the norseman is doing a very important thing in gathering info offine and I am also collecting info I think might be censored in the attempt to keep it safe!
You being aware of the agenda gives you the power to overthrow it, how can you change something you do not know what is?
Knowledge is power and knowing your enemy does not make him stronger, quite the opposite as far as I have experienced.

F

[a fine naked fellow]

Yep yep. Yippie for knowledge and free expression of knowledge. Yippie!
:cool:

[the norseman]

A_fine_naked fellow - you are right, "awareness and knowledge is never negative" but only in its rawest form. It can and does bring out the best but most of the time the worst in mankind be that destroying of such knowledge, the selfish hording or even the lack of strength and will to act with this knowledge. That was my point in my thread "full of she-at" that MOST (not all) on the conspiracy scene love to moan about who is doing what and what really happened behind X news incident but never really do anything to facilitate change - I admit I was one of these people but I am making strides to make sure I am no longer.

Pollock, let me explain:

I believe the human psyche is "wired" in series and not parallel, just like those old Christmas tree lights, if one of the bulbs blew non of the others would illuminate. This is my point regarding the "i am me, I am reality, I will imagine a better reality" school of thought (which does have its place but hear me out) - The collective human psyche is dead. The majority of people as I have said earlier are so dosed up on manufactured food/chemicals and have had their brain chemistry altered beyond recognition through drugs, alcohol, and over stimulation with brain rot entertainment, fear and the actual lack of interlectual pursuits that the "human energy grid" will not be turned on for the positive anytime soon.

Couple that with so called modern science confirming constantly that the human brain is only there to control your collection of cells and organs and has no place outside of the physical body - no wonder the world is fucked up.

"the I am reality, infinate love" school of thought is not wrong but I think it is being focused on too early at the expense of any real collective will to change. I said it earlier that it probably does have its place in moving this planet along but NOT at this time. If we want to start a modern renaissance then educating the masses and forming cohesion should be our clear and present goal - not singing in a circle and thinking you are going to bring the world to a higher place of consciousness (due to the reasons above) - I am not saying stop this if this is what you are doing but use it as an adjunct to my main points.

Auron, I do not think mushrooms are the answer - I have never understood why people are so hell bent on altering their perceptions through the use of mind altering substances be they natural or manufactured? I think the human mind is far less limited when it is crystal clear and not bogged down by plagues on the brain tissue. Granted mushrooms may have been used in esoteric cultures since the word dot by they were not utilised by Joe Public popping along to the village common and digging them up. They were used at specific times on specific people who had been "groomed" for want of a better description for their use ie in ceremonies of passing to manhood / womanhood. This for a start would influence what you would feel perceive from them. If you are even slightly wired up wrong due to emotions, the use of other substances etc then I think permenant damage is possible and then you are no good to anyone. Do you think the majority of people that you advocate all doing mushrooms is a good thing? I do not. Mankind is too immature (that is assuming that mushrooms contribute positively - I am convinced that they do not) and as I have said above not mentally / spiritually evolved enough.

The "fear of conspiracys" is due to lack of global cohesion. I went water skiing once in the middle of the med with a few friends- it was bare foot water skiing. I let go of the boat and it was a few minutes before my friend driving the boat realised. I was effectively on my own in the middle of the sea. All I could see was water and stupidly I did not have a life jacket on. I had quite some time to think and I did not focus on my predicament I focused on how small and insignificant the human seems to be - I trod water for what seemed like ages until my friend found me and I jumped on the boat. I realised that we, collectively are stronger as a group.

Let me ask, do you think the global elite lack cohesion and organisation? I dont think so. Do you think that the forced social unrest and the divisive polices are not there for a reason? People need to form and start producing a collective effort to bring about real change. This is done by educating and making sure the information that we in these circles enjoy and like to thrash around gets out there. I think that our real effort should be placed on these fronts -facts that people can understand like how they are being conned out of their health, their money, their history and also their spirituality.

I do not think we should focus on telling people "to imagine their reality and love your way to freedom" because most people as reasoned above will be turned off for life. Knowledge has to be layered, just because many of you (and even me - but my beliefs are irrelevent on this) may have come to the conclusion onlong the line of - that the true freedom may lie in the collective human psyche does not mean that people should be taught this from day one. Think of my magic onion that I have mentioned a number of times - dont start at the centre, layer the info.

The Norseman.

[pollock]

Pollock, let me explain:

I believe the human psyche is "wired" in series and not parallel, just like those old Christmas tree lights, if one of the bulbs blew non of the others would illuminate. This is my point regarding the "i am me, I am reality, I will imagine a better reality" school of thought (which does have its place but hear me out) - The collective human psyche is dead. The majority of people as I have said earlier are so dosed up on manufactured food/chemicals and have had their brain chemistry altered beyond recognition through drugs, alcohol, and over stimulation with brain rot entertainment, fear and the actual lack of interlectual pursuits that the "human energy grid" will not be turned on for the positive anytime soon.

Couple that with so called modern science confirming constantly that the human brain is only there to control your collection of cells and organs and has no place outside of the physical body - no wonder the world is fucked up.

"the I am reality, infinate love" school of thought is not wrong but I think it is being focused on too early at the expense of any real collective will to change. I said it earlier that it probably does have its place in moving this planet along but NOT at this time. If we want to start a modern renaissance then educating the masses and forming cohesion should be our clear and present goal - not singing in a circle and thinking you are going to bring the world to a higher place of consciousness (due to the reasons above) - I am not saying stop this if this is what you are doing but use it as an adjunct to my main points.


The Norseman.

I cant believe you go on with the singing in circles and likewise silly comments, if you think that is what it is all about for me I understand your scepticism.
But if you had read my posts properly you would know better!

Love:)
F
PS
And how do you believe these people who "are so dosed up on manufactured food/chemicals and have had their brain chemistry altered beyond recognition through drugs, alcohol, and over stimulation with brain rot entertainment, fear and the actual lack of interlectual pursuits" are to be awakened then?

[the norseman]

Pollock,

Thanks for the reply but I fear you have slightly misinterpreted my meaning - again English is not my native language so I may not be 100% clear in all my writing.

To quote:

"""""I cant believe you go on with the singing in circles and likewise silly comments, if you think that is what it is all about for me I understand your scepticism.
But if you had read my posts properly you would know better!""""

I am not judging YOU - I do not know you nor have I read all of your posts (only those in comment to mine) - my point was a collective point not individually directed at you. I was explaining my thoughts and not my thoughts specifically on what you do. I explain this further below so please do not take this paragraph in isolation.

""""""And how do you believe these people who "are so dosed up on manufactured food/chemicals and have had their brain chemistry altered beyond recognition through drugs, alcohol, and over stimulation with brain rot entertainment, fear and the actual lack of interlectual pursuits" are to be awakened then?"""""

I can not believe you asked me that - I am SURE that I have explained myself a number of times before on that front. Have another read through and you will see it glaringly obvious the approach I advocate. I will summarise here but the more detailed information is contained within my posts:

Basically people need to be "physically" awakened before they can be "spiritually" this is done with "hard facts", like I said, we need a hook to catch peoples attention. On the whole, people will only turn away from eastenders (metaphorically) if they are confronted with something that affects them!!! ie, why are their loved ones dying of cancer (brought about through modern living and this including diet and lifestyle choices) and not getting the so called treatment they need due to expense when the drugs took literally pennies to make. Why are they so wrapped up in debt which continues to get worse? Why are they tricked into demanding government action / intervention on things that the governments ultimately orchestrated?Why are they no longer allowed to question official history with certain European Countries without facing Jail?

This will go further to awaken people intially NOT telling them that infinate love is the only way (when it may well be - I do not know). Again information has to be layered, I made the point in another thread that you can not teach a 3 year old mathematics by handing him a book on quantum electro dynamics (no matter how worthwhile this topic may be) but you can by first teaching him/her to count to 10. If you start educating people with the end result it is as good as failing or infact worse because people will walk away. Start at the beginning with hard facts and people will all ultimately come to the same point. The infinate love school of thought takes 1) far too long to convert people and I do worry that we are now on borrowed time with information exchange 2) it is incomprehensable to most in this current climate 3) It is in direct competition with peoples religious beliefs and scientific believes and the modern establishment propaganda machine is far more powerful.

My comment: """"not singing in a circle and thinking you are going to bring the world to a higher place of consciousness""""

Serves to highlight my point that many people perceive the so called "new age movement" to be just that and never get any deeper into exploring the benefits. I think the so called conspiracy field has been negatively affected by this due to the everyday peoples perceptions that it is all mumbo jumbo. That sounds harsh but it is true.

My main thrust has been that in order to facilitate change in this world people need to band together and start to coherently educate people within the confines of their present understanding which is on issues that affect THEM directly. The esoteric if it indeed has its place (my thoughts on this are irrelevent) can be introduced down the line as people become more aware that what they perceived the world to be is not in fact what it really is. It can be practiced by those at that current state of spiritual evolution but physical change ie global awakening through information exchange and groups of people forming is in my opinion the action that needs to take place.

I hope that is more clear. I am enjoying the discussion.

I will now ask you the same question, as I am interested to hear your thoughts, how do you propose to awaken the poeple in light of

"""are so dosed up on manufactured food/chemicals and have had their brain chemistry altered beyond recognition through drugs, alcohol, and over stimulation with brain rot entertainment, fear and the actual lack of interlectual pursuits"""

If indeed you think that the above even has a bearing.

The Norseman.

[synergy777]

norseman spot on. we need to be more pragmatic, professional and productive. utilise the assets we have, eg electronic transfer of data can be acheived globally with the click of a mouse. what we need ironically,is to come together as a cohesive collective, and use all of our skill sets.

before we preach values, data to the masses, we need to honour these values ourselves. the truth movement is so fractured/split, its time someone from the truth movement instigated a change, a push for unity. united we stand, divided we fall, all for one, one for all etc. we need to use our info to improve ourselves and eachother.

[pollock]

I will now ask you the same question, as I am interested to hear your thoughts, how do you propose to awaken the poeple in light of

"""are so dosed up on manufactured food/chemicals and have had their brain chemistry altered beyond recognition through drugs, alcohol, and over stimulation with brain rot entertainment, fear and the actual lack of interlectual pursuits"""

If indeed you think that the above even has a bearing.

The Norseman.

Oh, I think it has bearing all right, If you look at this thread:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3031&page=2 Ive tried to come with some points of how I feel I can make a difference.
The point I am trying to get to here is not weather we should do everything that is in our power to remain free and to overthrow the agenda, of course we should, my point is that I am not pretending to know what is the way for others!
We all have very different powers and abilitys and it would be strange if there was only one kind of action needed to overcome?
One of the reasons I come to this forum, is to find out what I can do, where my powers can be of use, I am on a mission so to speak and I got offended by your blatant dissmissal of other peoples way of reaching enlightenment.
I agree newage crap is worthless, and I admire the energy with witch you try to show us this, but there are a whole bunch of those kinds of hippy dippy forums with no aim other than to pat each others auras on the back and I think they need saving and waking up by you more than most people on this forum, who imo are very aware of what they are doing and how it affects our reality!
But this is mostly my ego speaking anyway, I wish we could all put away our differences and concentrate on the things we have in common and on how we can combine our different powers into a new stronger one, not on how to pick apart others way of doing things in order to prove our own way is the only right one.
So to recap, I don't think we can awaken others, only ourself, we can show others what we have learned and help them on their way but the choice to acctually wake up and what to use to do it with, lies squarly in the hands of the individual imo.
I think I can first of all aim at living what I preach, to tell people my honest oppinion when a subject comes up in a conversation around me, I feel I can raise my children to be thinking acting individuals with their own point of veiw and a lot of knowledge, I spread info about whats going on to whoever wants to listen and some who don't.
I collect info from the net and other sources to avoid the massive amount of info being lost.
I prepare myself and my family physically and mentaly for hard times ahead as I will die before I let them enslave my family and I think the time to choose is inevitable and close.
I am no fluffy dreamer, imo the fight is coming and we are going to be the ones fighting it, but I will let you choose your own weapon and I will fight back to back with you with the weapon of my choice!
In the meantime I will try to be open minded and not to dismiss others because they are not using the same tools as me when I really have no idea weather their tools will work or not, instead I will examine the tools I can use and see how they can be combined with others in order to make something new and stronger!!!!

Well thats what I feel i have the abillity to do at the moment anyhow.

Love is the way for me
F

[neomichi]

I`m sorry, but there more I try to understand, the more I get confused. Thank you very much for your hints and ideas, but probably everybody (every body) has to decide himself what he want`s to do. On the other side I remember the conversation of Neo and the oracle from the second Matrix movie: "Your are not here to decide but to understand why you have decided so". Should probably mean, the script of our live is already written (by ourselfes before birth) and doing decisions in our lives is just a pharse or illusion, because the script is already finished and there is nothing we could do against. Or not? As I said, there more I think of all that, the more I get confused. So I really ask myself: "IS there (inside our "Matrix") ANY A B S O L U T E TRUTH, or is EVERYTHING (every THING) relatively, means nothing plays a role, because everything is just illusion. So if everything is just illusion, actually it doesn`t matter WHAT and HOW we do, because it is just a movie???
MINDFUCK, as I said before. Probably the only way out of this "mind-trap" is to get in a kind of enlightened condition, but WITHOUT any drugs, because drugs are "from this world (Matrix)" and in this sense also part of the illusion.
So probably the only way is really meditating, praying and hoping that a "hand" from the "outside" will help to pull you out and show you the illusionary world. Probably it is not possible to pull yourself outside this "program", but we can get prepared and ask for help ??????????????????????????????????????
I see, it makes no sense to talk about all this and asking ANY questions, because the TRUTH is beyond the polarity in which we seem to be caught. Yes, I really think the THINKING MIND is the problem, because it creates the illusion. And inside the mind-created "matrix", there is probably absolute NO tru or false.
Hard to believe, but it really leads me to the conclusion, that there is NO right or wrong WAY to solve the mystery-riddle called "life". Just DO (or not do) what you WANT. !?! ............................................
:confused: :eek: ;) :) :) :)

[the norseman]

Pollock,

A truely excellent post - I do agree in most part.

If you permit me, I would like to address a couple of the points when I have a little more time.

The Norseman.

[pollock]

Pollock,

A truely excellent post - I do agree in most part.

If you permit me, I would like to address a couple of the points when I have a little more time.

The Norseman.

Yes, you are here by permitted:D!

looking forward to having some of my points adressed
:) F

[cheeb]

heres a suggestion

Every year they have a literary festival at a tiny town ,on the Welsh/English border_

Hay on Wye end of may-beginning of june

They have some big hitters there
last year it was Al Gore , and the Tipton 2{prisoners recently released from Guantalimo Bay

couple of years back it was Bill Clinton

This year it is John Major

why cant "they"? try to get David Icke to speak at this event, I Think its a bit of a testing ground to see how new books fare

If not ,its a good place to go, but the good natured ambiance of the place might not make ideal for a demonstration, but more a show of strength,stand up and be counted ,"Im sparticus "sort of thing

They have a campsite with a pub,just outside called holy bush which was set up as a "Celestine Prophecy thing although this has faded a bit

yuo can have open fires there and there always seems to be music going on

Could be a good to meet and organise,or just meet and chill

[bigus_dickus]

"Your are not here to decide but to understand why you have decided so". Should probably mean, the script of our live is already written (by ourselfes before birth) and doing decisions in our lives is just a pharse or illusion, because the script is already finished and there is nothing we could do against. Or not?

why does it matter so much? after all, even to wonder why was also programmed or predetermined, or not, denying or even accepting it. what's the difference and why is it so important?

As I said, there more I think of all that, the more I get confused. So I really ask myself: "IS there (inside our "Matrix") ANY A B S O L U T E TRUTH, or is EVERYTHING (every THING) relatively, means nothing plays a role, because everything is just illusion.

well, let me ask you this. if you want to meet the absolute truth face to face, what do you think it will look like? or if you were to feel/experience it in any sense, how would that be? how would you know it is it?

So if everything is just illusion, actually it doesn`t matter WHAT and HOW we do, because it is just a movie???

matter? to who exactly? do you have a master?

MINDFUCK, as I said before. Probably the only way out of this "mind-trap" is to get in a kind of enlightened condition, but WITHOUT any drugs, because drugs are "from this world (Matrix)" and in this sense also part of the illusion.
So probably the only way is really meditating, praying and hoping that a "hand" from the "outside" will help to pull you out and show you the illusionary world. Probably it is not possible to pull yourself outside this "program", but we can get prepared and ask for help ??????????????????????????????????????

you ask for help, you receive help. at this point i am providing you sincere help. going out of a "mindfuck" and inside another "mindfuck" is not a solution to the "mindfuck" problem. it's just a different "mindfuck".

since your mind/reality -as you say- is an illusion, then so is any "enlightened" or "endarkened" condition. or if there is such condition that is the truth, then once you're enlightened, you're supposed to be experiencing the truth, therefore you don't need or hope any "hand" from the "outside" will help you. you are supposed to have helped yourself. and then all you want is to help others.

Yes, I really think the THINKING MIND is the problem, because it creates the illusion. And inside the mind-created "matrix", there is probably absolute NO tru or false.

well, that's like saying that the FIRE ARMS are the problem, because they create killing of people and killing is not really an action made by people. like guns or cars or whatever are machines with their own will.

if the thinking mind is the problem, then what kind of mind thinks that idea? an unthinking one?

Hard to believe, but it really leads me to the conclusion, that there is NO right or wrong WAY to solve the mystery-riddle called "life". Just DO (or not do) what you WANT. !?! ............................................
:confused: :eek: ;) :) :) :)

there IS a way and it is YOUR way. you know the right way, but you don't know you.