Full of She-at !!! [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

the norseman

20-04-2007, 11:03 PM

edelweiss pirate

20-04-2007, 11:16 PM

Oh dear.... Where to begin....

This forum is growing by the day, more and more members, more and more views.. more and more information getting out to those who need it....

There are other things going on in the world Norseman that you may not be aware of.... Politics is just the visible manifestation of a nation's psyche...

There are other ways..... The same methods THEY use, the same forces they use...

But I daresay this is the type of thing you consider 'shit'...

If this the way you would talk to people in order to help 'educate' them then I don't think you'll be very successful.... Have you just come here because you're angry.... Come back when you're feeling happier.

Mo0n5tar

20-04-2007, 11:34 PM

To be honest i was quietly impressed with the polite tone, listening ear and helpful manner provided by this forum.

My friend i would like to ask you what your point is, i sense alot of passion in your post and to be honest i feel a similar way to you, but i feel your use of caps and angry tone has distracted from the message you wish to purvey.

For instance what do you mean by stand up and be counted?

Many have, and sit rotting in prison, is that more productive than practicing a more ethical, modest and thoughtful life?

the norseman

21-04-2007, 12:20 AM

Thanks for the replies and I apologise if the use of capital letters caused offense or even portayed that I am angry as I am not - I remain detached enough to not let that be so but there is alot of passion in my post - yes.

I really do think that what I said is true and I hope and believe that many will identify if not agree with me.

Elderweiss pirate, "There are other things going on in the world Norseman that you may not be aware of.... Politics is just the visible manifestation of a nation's psyche..." agreed in part but that is a very blinkered view and you are somewhat burying your head in the sand with that statement if you can not think beyond it. No offense but your entire post is mamby pamby and ultimately means nothing. I do not need to go into the spiritual or "reality is how you manifest it" arguments etc this is because 99.9999% do not and will not ever understand so "physical change" is a requirement and topics addressed that people understand. You have to start somewhere and starting at the end point is as good as failing. Look, we have been discussing topics / conspiracies for years but are no better off!!!

People are "trapped" in a reality that is not reality and that goes for everything ie the political system, the banking system and the religious system to name but a few. If people really KNEW the truth of how they are conned to part with money everyday or conned out of their health etc then they would be angry and changes could come about.

People have to be "educated" initially within confines that they can understand. Society has been dumbed down for so long that intelligence / education is almost non existent. Ask someone how a radio or engine works they could not tell you but I bet they could tell you who is the top scorer in Chelsea or how big Jade Goodys ass is!!! You get the idea.

"For instance what do you mean by stand up and be counted?
Many have, and sit rotting in prison, is that more productive than practicing a more ethical, modest and thoughtful life?"

Stand up and be counted, surely I explained myself in my original post - Say what you believe even to those that wont listen. I bet that the people at your work or even some of your friends do not know your true believes. As I said sounding off here or to your family etc is useless. If everyone that came here alone (and there are many forums etc) stood up and started being proactive and tried to do something of substance we may even be able to delay or halt this onlsaught on humanity.

Many are rotting in prison yes - you will not even be able to deny or question anything about the holocaust (my believes on this are irrelevent for this point) soon to name but one example - it is snowballing out of control if a great many good people start to say enough is enough then who knows what can happen. You should be able to question and say what you want when you want no matter how absurd but I digress.

"Many have, and sit rotting in prison, is that more productive than practicing a more ethical, modest and thoughtful life?" Mickeyjay, no offense and I would agree with you in the ideal world but think about that for a minute. We would all like to be like grissly adams living off the land in isolation with our family and in peace with nature/everyone else but sitting on the fence like that is the biggest problem today. Change can never be brought about if people dont muck in. Rotting in prison for ones believes should not be an option and it CAN be changed with enough will. Ethics and modesty are true virtues but they are not employed by those that are enslaving us - now I am not advocating sinking to their level to bring about change - think of Ghandi !!! But he stood up to be counted when it mattered.

Food for thought.

I am enjoying the discussion - I hope it all made sense as I said earlier, English is not my first language.

If anyone else has points to add or rants to chip in please do.

The Norseman.

midwich cuckoo

21-04-2007, 12:26 AM

the norseman

21-04-2007, 12:33 AM

Midwich,

Thanks for the reply - you really tackled my post with substance and educated debate thank you.

I did not say that everyone on here was full of it, I said most and sadly with that post you proved to be one of the most.

Now please, be a grown up and lets all run through the issues I have raised with substance.

The norseman.

edelweiss pirate

21-04-2007, 12:33 AM

Elderweiss pirate, "There are other things going on in the world Norseman that you may not be aware of.... Politics is just the visible manifestation of a nation's psyche..." agreed in part but that is a very blinkered view and you are somewhat burying your head in the sand with that statement if you can not think beyond it. No offense but your entire post is mamby pamby and ultimately means nothing. I do not need to go into the spiritual or "reality is how you manifest it" arguments etc this is because 99.9999% do not and will not ever understand so "physical change" is a requirement and topics addressed that people understand. You have to start somewhere and starting at the end point is as good as failing. Look, we have been discussing topics / conspiracies for years but are no better off!!!

Your view.

I studied politics for two years I know all about it... It's nothing, just an outward manifestation of occult psychic forces operating on earth....

Go to the core, mould those forces and you will modify the physical political manifestation..

Ever wonder why the Nazis were Occultists first and foremost? Why Winston Churchill heard voices in his head? Because they are all members of the same schizo-gnostic gang.

You need to broaden your horizons... Politics is bullshit a 'product' for the masses, just like 'science', an empty skeleton that explains processes while stripping them of their true meaning. So the people remain in the dark.

Fuck politics, become a magician!

limelady

21-04-2007, 12:34 AM

Hello norseman

Welcome to the forum.

Firstly, I'd like to ask you to soften your tone a little when making posts here. There are many good people on this forum who would take strong objection to your telling them they are "full of crap"! And rightly so! This is bad manners in anyone's language, and is not the best way to approach a group of people with the intention of starting a worthwhile debate.

In reply to your post, I would say you may have over-looked a few points, not least of which is the fact that this forum is growing at a steady rate. From 0 to 4,606 registered members within a few months, not to forget that every day we have hundreds of regular casuals and newcomers to Ickes work drop by this forum and spend time reading the posts.

What this means is that our discussions are being read and absorbed by thousands of people every day, many of whom have never heard of the work of David Icke till they stumble upon this forum via a google search engine.

Perhaps you're not familiar with the '100-monkey syndrome' and the collective human conscious?? I suggest you check out the work of Rupert Sheldrake for a better understanding of how this works, as it is clear you have overlooked this very important aspect of reality in your opening post.

This forum (and others that discuss similar topics) are jointly having a MASSIVE affect on changing people's understanding of reality. The internet is perhaps our greatest tool for taking back our freedom, and forums like this are important for 'connecting-the-dots' that are changing human awareness at the most fundermentally important level of understanding -

So please don't be so quick too judge others when it is clear there are gaps in your own understanding.

midwich cuckoo

21-04-2007, 12:39 AM

Ok Norseman, I see what you are, I will take your bait no more.

I pity you and hope life takes a turn for the better for you, you sure need it. :)

yinon

21-04-2007, 12:43 AM

False enlightment = False guru = Full of Rital -In

mrguitarbear

21-04-2007, 12:43 AM

In 2003 , over a million British people marched against the war in Iraq , one of the biggest protest marches in British history. But it didn't stop the war.

What IS the way to fight back ? I don't know , honestly. If I go and blow up the local government offices , it just means a lot of poor people will not get their unemployment money on time. If I assassinate a politician , I will go to prison. I'm not particularly enamoured of violence anyway.

What cause am I meant to be fighting for ? Both Communism and Fascism are discredited , hell even Liberalism is discredited these days ! Big business would sabotage any Socialist government that got elected , and I don't particularly like the idea of Anarchism. Yes , Liberal Democracy is a failure but what are we going to replace it with ? Revolutions don't work.

If I went and spoke about the ideas of David Icke in London , I'd still be preaching to the converted as they would be the only ones who would listen , everyone else would just laugh or think I was mad !

The only thing we can do is to keep this forum rolling , keep looking at the evidence , keep discussing it. More and more people are looking for answers in this horrible world , and maybe some of them will find their way here or maybe some of them will read the books of Mr Icke. When the amount of people who have awakened reaches some sort of critical mass , then the REAL changes will begin to happen...( see Lyall Watson's book ' Supernature ' )

Most people aren't ready for all of this yet anyway , they may be imprisoned by their ignorance but that ignorance protects them as well.

Finally , be very wary of anyone who offers you ' illumination ' , very tempting maybe...but at what price ?

cheeb

21-04-2007, 12:44 AM

You use the term rotting in prison quite often ,most people i know have used prison as a time for self reflection and education and are more on par with the ways of the world
you do what you do to survive in this world 'as long as you only harm coorperations or banks thats fine

when you harm another human being that is different ,

this is when the phrase "your gonna reap what you sow "
enters the equation

metaphorically and spiritually speaking of course.

yinon

21-04-2007, 01:05 AM

The brain has been damaged

Rital-IN

midwich cuckoo

21-04-2007, 01:09 AM

Maybe we have someone with multiple accounts here, taking the piss?. ;)

eternal_spirit

21-04-2007, 01:17 AM

The brain has been damaged

Rital-IN
eh:confused:
There is posts on ritalin in other threads my dear.

yinon

21-04-2007, 01:18 AM

Nasa experimentations?????

False guru = No emotion achievable through drugs

midwich cuckoo

21-04-2007, 01:24 AM

Don't feed the trolls. ;)

tinmenace

21-04-2007, 01:36 AM

eternal_spirit

21-04-2007, 01:37 AM

Don't feed the trolls. ;)
LOL :D

The Illuminati Brotherhood who control societies, have been in control since at least the time of the ancient Egyptians. It's going to take time to change the system they created, there are no easy answers, but making people aware of the facts of how they operate is only the begining.

There is alot of their traps you can avoid and refuse to take part in some of their games, meaning they have less control over you.

dinachick

21-04-2007, 01:54 AM

However, the MASSES will never wake up and are either too apathetic and caught up in their day to day lives. They would not take kindly to the in-your-face hardline approach however much tempting it would be. It will have to continue at a grassroots level one person at a time, visiting various websites and becoming more informed at their own pace because the reality and scope of the info takes a few years at best to process.

There are quite a few hard line people who ARE taking action using their own funds to buy supplies making orgonite and risking their lives, getting harrassed etc and they are quietly doing their work while the general population has no clue how much they have brought down the NWO by busting the death towers ( they are not cell towers ) and underground bases, gifting huge city areas etc. Don and Carol Croft and the rest of the gang worldwide deserve a BIG round of applause because they HAVE done something about taking down the NWO and they do not want any recognition for it. Once these towers are busted the population around them are generally more receptive to new information you might want to give them about what is REALLY going on.

My supplies are ready to go and I just have to finish scouting out all the locations I need to go to. I never knew there were so many towers in our little suburban city until I knew what to look for, and it is shocking how no one questions what exactly these are for!

Alex Collier's vid regarding the Andromedans was excellent and it was in your face shocking :eek: , and he probably would endorse the norseman's idea of waking up the masses, he is that adamant that people wake up and take responsibility for their own lives. All we need is 10% and the benevolent ET's will be here to help, but we have to meet them halfway.

By the way, on a side note, I am not sure which is true, is the moon landing really a hoax or do we already have underground bases on the darkside and was mars really populated with earth people until they got raided in 1989? I am in a dilemma about this one.

oneofmany

21-04-2007, 02:24 AM

Both Communism and Fascism are discredited , hell even Liberalism is discredited these days ! Big business would sabotage any Socialist government that got elected , and I don't particularly like the idea of Anarchism. Yes , Liberal Democracy is a failure but what are we going to replace it with ? Revolutions don't work.

An Internet based form of referendum, where there is no government, only appointed public overseers who get rotated every six months and are appointed like a jury is. Every household is given the internet and a computer. The public forward the questions to be asked, and the public decide if the new law shall be passed or not, majority rules. New voters have to answer all existing questions, and eventually if there is a redundant law, the next generation will vote it out, unless a question gets passed to repeal an existing law, and passes referendum. What do you think?

for more on this I found a website a while back that totally stole my idea :D
not really, we just had the same idea independently http://www.unitedindependents.net/book.htm

whitenight639

21-04-2007, 02:59 AM

In the UK alone Mr Blair stands to sell you all down the river by signing an EU constitution (but it is not the constitution if you ask him!!) and thus politically entrenching the entire UK into a prerequisite European Superstate but HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING OR STAND UP TO BE COUNTED??? None!!!! That is but one example where NO ONE stands up to be counted -NONE OF YOU!!!

At the end of the day they can pass whatever constitution and laws they dosnt mean i will abide by them, also do you think most of the population are worth saving? or indeed have the IQ to understand whats really going on?
I think most are worth educating but it wont be done directly by a leaflet or preaching on the street, it may however be done through pirate TV or radio.
somthing to think about, but its best not to interupt peoples eastenders or there really would be a riot!

also oneofmany thats a great idea iv never thought about having a totally internet based democracy, only small problem is the computer illiterate ones.

oneofmany

21-04-2007, 03:12 AM

also oneofmany thats a great idea iv never thought about having a totally internet based democracy, only small problem is the computer illiterate ones. It would be like a multiple choice test at school, except all you have to do is turn on your computer, if you don't want to vote you don't have to, but you will never have a say on how to run things. Alongside this, you would run basic computer courses for the masses, you would have to make the site easy to browse and extremely secure, but these things could be easy to set up in a minimal amount of time. Freedom would only be a mouseclick away.

whitenight639

21-04-2007, 03:20 AM

Freedom would only be a mouseclick away.

VOTE ONEOFMMANY!!

great idea

oneofmany

21-04-2007, 03:28 AM

VOTE ONEOFMMANY!!

great ideaSpread the word, The more people know that this kind of thing is possible, the easier it will be to get rid of all politicians in the future. Imagine if the world knew that this was possible? Do you think they would vote for a fearless leader? I would say not :D

i am all i am

21-04-2007, 07:22 AM

This is my first post here.

I just have to say that most of you on here and the old icke forum are full of crap.

You come to places like this and complain and pretend you have more insight than others and say how you wish the sheeple would wake up but yet you all really do NOTHING!!!
How many of you actively try and educate people out there ie through leaflets, intellectual groups or even public speaking? None of you. No one has formed a group or any form mechanism to educate THE MASSES - when I was in London last I did not see anyone on Hyde Park Corner sounding off about what is really going on.

Many of you claim to try and convince others of what is going on but just sounding off to your mum or spouse as they struggle to watch Eastenders does not count!!!

Guys, I am not trying to get anyones backs up but please sit back and take a good long look at what I have said.

In the UK alone Mr Blair stands to sell you all down the river by signing an EU constitution (but it is not the constitution if you ask him!!) and thus politically entrenching the entire UK into a prerequisite European Superstate but HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING OR STAND UP TO BE COUNTED??? None!!!! That is but one example where NO ONE stands up to be counted -NONE OF YOU!!!
Food for thought - think it over and lets discuss matters properly and before anyone says "well what have you done!!!" well, I have made you think over and above simply logging on the net and making a career out of complaining anonomously to like minded individuals - preaching to the converted is a waste of time!!!

The Norseman.

Ps English is not my first language. Icelandic is.

G'day Norseman,

Welcome to the forum.

I'd be interested in where you get your information about everyone on the forum. Have you met everyone personally to find out what it is they are or are not doing ?

So, your first post is to use absolutes (none of you, no one, etc) to describe everyone on the forum. Is this because you have all the answers ?

If you do, I would love you to supply us all on this forum with the answers.

Oh, and...."You come to places like this and complain"....could all of what you have written been merely a self-description ?

With LOVE.

the norseman

21-04-2007, 10:40 AM

Thanks for the responses.

Yinon no offense but please keep the bullshit out of these posts. It contributes nothing and dilutes the points being made by all.

Midwich, there are no multiple IDs on my part - please flag this to the admin as I am sure that they can look at the IPs and see this is not so.

Cheeb - please go back and read all the posts in their entirety - I do not use that term - I am quoting other posters who made valid points. I think you have grabbed the wrong end of the stick. To address your points though:

"you do what you do to survive in this world 'as long as you only harm coorperations or banks thats fine
when you harm another human being that is different" - again I think this is a blinkered selfish view. If everyone did this then we would have anarchy (trust me, I was in the Sierra Leone when it all went wrong and anarchy is not a better system), scabbing around for your own self interest conning corporations leads to nothing!!! Again, change will only be faciliated if like minded people make a collective effort - doing what you have to do to survive on a daily basis as long as it does not hurt anyone is an absurd statement.

Limelady, yes I agree the forum is growing and of course it is a contributor to change but it alone will not bring about change. I am sure that many of you are familiar with the proposed changes for the internet that the powers that be have in store - forums like this could be a distant memory in a few years. I refer back to my inital point that people have to start becoming proactive unless they are happy to exist in their internet world and moan but never actually stand up and be counted. Gaps in my knowledge? I am the first to admit that and as long as I walk the earth there will be gaps in my knowlege and I will check out what you have suggested - but I am sure even with me not having read your suggestion you can see my point.

David Icke talks, he writes etc, whether you agree with him or not, he puts his money where his mouth is as we all should.

Elderweiss, I am 100% familiar in what you are bringing up and again, I agree in part but you seem to miss the point I am making.

To quote:
"You need to broaden your horizons... Politics is bullshit a 'product' for the masses, just like 'science', an empty skeleton that explains processes while stripping them of their true meaning. So the people remain in the dark.
Fuck politics, become a magician!"

This statement is utterly meaningless to 99.999999% of people. Politics and Science are only bullshit in their present form but obviously this does not need to be so - Politics and Science are to be enjoyed - it is just that we have let a few seize the systems for themselves and pervert them and sell them back in their bullshit form. People have to be enlightened within their present spheres of consciousness and understanding. You can not teach a 3 year old maths using quantum electrodynamics but you can start by teaching them to count to 10 - you get the point.

I take back that most people are full of crap and any feathers I have riled please pat them down - I wanted a heated discussion to start things moving and appears that I got that.

I liked some of the posts on here regarding why not microchip the politicians so we can see where they are 24/7 afterall they work for us and not the other way round. Who has written a coherent letter to a newspaper or made a leaflet publizing this idea? Probably no one so how do you hope for it to snowball and catch on? Now you see the point I am making.

The idea of pirate radio and or TV is a very good idea. If anyone had the resources there are still a few internet outlets that can be used like google video and youtube - however, as I mentioned above the internet as we know it may well be a thing of the past in a few years so it is a medium that can not necessarily be counted on in its entirety (read the headlines section on this site for further info).

The "multiple choice" internet democracy is a good idea in the real world but in the present climate it would be perfect for abuse - look at the rigmorale with the electronic voting machines. If this internet idea came into force in the present state it would be carte blanche for the powers that be!!!!

Dinachick, I agree in part but sadly for change to take place the Masses have to be awakened - that is my point regarding a lot of the "reality is as you perceive it" and "politics is bullshit, become a magacian" - the masses will never wake up based on this as they would not could not understand it. Awakening has to take place within the confines of their present understanding.

I am not advocating a hard line approach but I dont think there is anything wrong with set up different mediums to get the information accross.

I am all I am - I have not met everyone personally but I have been on the scene for a sufficient amount of time to know who the main players are and I am quite sure that no one on here is (including myself). I am in Ireland at the moment on business but when I return to my home (iceland) I am going to finish what I have started. You have to get politically involved - you have to change the system from within. I never want to be in a situation where I say "I told you so" when the world is in ruin as it can be prevented but the people in the know ie you and me have to start doing more over and above browsing the internet!!!!

I do not have all the answers and never will.

Food for thought.

The norseman.

Food for thought.

The norseman.

i am all i am

21-04-2007, 11:03 AM

Thanks for the responses.
I am all I am - I have not met everyone personally but I have been on the scene for a sufficient amount of time to know who the main players are and I am quite sure that no one on here is (including myself). I am in Ireland at the moment on business but when I return to my home (iceland) I am going to finish what I have started. You have to get politically involved - you have to change the system from within. I never want to be in a situation where I say "I told you so" when the world is in ruin as it can be prevented but the people in the know ie you and me have to start doing more over and above browsing the internet!!!!

I do not have all the answers and never will.

Food for thought.

The norseman.

What if I told you that the vibration of the whole planet could be raised through the use of music ???

Lumukanda posted this...... http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=31877&posted=1#post31877

Music is one way, there are many others that I would incorporate, and all of the varying ways can be used to continue to raise the vibration of the planet.

MY WORDS

MY WORDS ARE EXPRESSED,
WITH REASON AND RHYME,
A LOVE THAT'S CONFESSED,
THROUGH RYTHYM AND TIME.

MY WORDS ARE A GIFT,
A TRUTH THAT IS ME,
WITH A MESSAGE TO UPLIFT,
FOR ALL ETERNALLY.

MY WORDS ARE ALWAYS CLEAR,
WHETHER YOU LISTEN OR NOT,
THEY SHOW MY MIND HERE,
THE ONE THAT LOVE BEGOT.

MY WORDS I CONFIDE,
ARE ALL WRITTEN FOR ME,
FOR THE JOY I FOUND INSIDE,
HAS SET MY LOVE FREE.

"I do not have all the answers and never will."

I believe that you will realise that you are both the answer and the question, for all is one.

With LOVE.

P.S. - I have one belief, "ALL IS POSSIBLE".

i_am

21-04-2007, 12:28 PM

This is my first post here.

I just have to say that most of you on here and the old icke forum are full of crap.

You come to places like this and complain and pretend you have more insight than others and say how you wish the sheeple would wake up but yet you all really do NOTHING!!!

Do you know me? I somehow don't think so.

How many of you actively try and educate people out there ie through leaflets, intellectual groups or even public speaking? None of you. No one has formed a group or any form mechanism to educate THE MASSES - when I was in London last I did not see anyone on Hyde Park Corner sounding off about what is really going on.

That is a rather big assumption, don't you think?

Many of you claim to try and convince others of what is going on but just sounding off to your mum or spouse as they struggle to watch Eastenders does not count!!!

You really do have a low opinion of the human race in general don't you?

Guys, I am not trying to get anyones backs up but please sit back and take a good long look at what I have said.

Please!! Don't try. You seem to have done a good job of it without trying :p

In the UK alone Mr Blair stands to sell you all down the river by signing an EU constitution (but it is not the constitution if you ask him!!) and thus politically entrenching the entire UK into a prerequisite European Superstate but HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING OR STAND UP TO BE COUNTED??? None!!!! That is but one example where NO ONE stands up to be counted -NONE OF YOU!!!

Once again an assumption.. You know this, how?

Food for thought - think it over and lets discuss matters properly and before anyone says "well what have you done!!!" well, I have made you think over and above simply logging on the net and making a career out of complaining anonomously to like minded individuals - preaching to the converted is a waste of time!!!

I haven't seen anyone complaining, airing their frustration maybe, but not complaining. Preaching?? Sharing of knowledge and ones own views is hardly preaching. Please take a good look at your own post before making these sort of wild statements.

Most people who are here talking to like-minded individuals are doing so because they are very much alone, physically, emotionally and in their views. Having a place to talk to people who are on the same wave length, can regenerate ones batteries. Realising they have a great support group some may go on to do great things.

Ps English is not my first language. Icelandic is.

And perhaps that is why it comes across the way it does. The written word does not have the benefit of tone and passion as opposed to arrogance. It is sometimes hard not to offend people when writing something,especially when not in your first language. See!! That comes across as condescending doesn't it? It is not meant to be :rolleyes: :D

oneofmany

21-04-2007, 12:36 PM

The "multiple choice" internet democracy is a good idea in the real world but in the present climate it would be perfect for abuse - look at the rigmorale with the electronic voting machines. If this internet idea came into force in the present state it would be carte blanche for the powers that be!!!!

This is why I said it would have to be totally secure and after It was brought in, there would be no powers that be, the people would be the true power, like they are now but just don't know it. If you have a totally encrypted Internet voting system with passwords and usernames of your tax file numbers, It would be bloody near impossible to hack, and on top of that, it would have to be a non stop hack, as the system would never stop working, and they would also have to hack a majority some how, so it's almost infallible. If you gave the people hardware firewalls with their internet connections and computers, pretty much case solved.

lumukanda

21-04-2007, 12:49 PM

llogun

21-04-2007, 01:39 PM

i think norseman makes some valid points, but the sweeping generalisations are a bit insulting, we all do what we can, or rather we should, the clock is ticking, time is running out and there is the danger of just hanging around forums talking about it, but from what i can gather, most of us are doing something, i mean not everyone is going to form a movement, but i think that baby steps is also a way, speaking to at least one person at a time is as valid as writing a book, starting a protest etc etc
we all have our own ways of doing this stuff, but i think that we must not become complacent, reptiles or not, there is some serious shit going on, remember, 'evil happens when good men do nothing.'

I watched the Alex collier video in the ufo section and how he puts things across is brillant. May be we should step things up. The time is ticking away and who knows whats up there sleave for the next attack. What if the internet went down for good and we couldn`t contact eachover we would be stuffed. There are some very clever people here with knowlage and good hearts and we need to stick together as one which we do. may be we should set a group up and get to know eachover face to face for when the shit does hit the fan because that day will come. We could set something up where we could meet every few months or so at diffrant locations. you could start at my city if you wanted and im from david icks home town in leicester i can get a room for free where we could meet. We would have to set things up so no trolls or turn up. I dont know if this would work but im willing to give it a try and put the laws of attraction in place. GIve me a week and i will start a thread and call it meeting that way we can get peoples views and see if its worth setting up.

mrguitarbear

21-04-2007, 02:34 PM

This is why I said it would have to be totally secure and after It was brought in, there would be no powers that be, the people would be the true power, like they are now but just don't know it. If you have a totally encrypted Internet voting system with passwords and usernames of your tax file numbers, It would be bloody near impossible to hack, and on top of that, it would have to be a non stop hack, as the system would never stop working, and they would also have to hack a majority some how, so it's almost infallible. If you gave the people hardware firewalls with their internet connections and computers, pretty much case solved.

Maybe if you gave people their own controller , like a video zapper , with numbers 0-9 and buttons for ' Yes ' , ' No ' and ' Abstain ' on it then that would be even better - easier to use and less chance of hacking the system.

Would the results be any different though ? I can imagine the media constantly trying to influence the vote or hijack it with popular campaigns for its own agenda.

oneofmany

21-04-2007, 02:42 PM

Maybe if you gave people their own controller , like a video zapper , with numbers 0-9 and buttons for ' Yes ' , ' No ' and ' Abstain ' on it then that would be even better - easier to use and less chance of hacking the system.

Would the results be any different though ? I can imagine the media constantly trying to influence the vote or hijack it with popular campaigns for its own agenda.Good idea there Mr Guitarbear, you are right about the Media, trying to influence you, but this would be an everyday process, and they wouldn't have time to, the law they wanted to influence you on would have already been voted upon before they could make a story on it.

emma royds

21-04-2007, 02:49 PM

yinon

21-04-2007, 03:33 PM

Yinon, I'm interested in what you have to say. Please don't be cryptic. I just can't use the brain power to decipher riddles right now.

Please say what you must say, because you caught my attention with the Rital-IN. So spill it darlin'....

Rital-In side effects

Reports also indicate severe psychological effects. A large percentage of children become robotic, lethargic, depressed, or withdrawn on stimulants, and withdrawal from them can cause emotional suffering, including depression, exhaustion, and suicide.

Psychotic episodes and violent behavior are also associated with chronic Ritalin abuse. Even the manufacturer warns in its information leaflet, “frank psychotic episodes can occur” with abuse.

The history of violence by teens who have been subjected to psychiatric drugs cannot be ignored. Consider the following examples:

*

November 20, 1986: Rod Mathews, 14, beat a classmate to death with a bat in the woods near his house in Canton, Massachusetts. Rod was put on Ritalin when he was in third grade.
*

February 19, 1996: Timmy Becton, 10, grabbed his three-year-old niece as a shield and aimed a shotgun at a sheriff's deputy who accompanied a truant officer to his Florida home. Becton had been taken to a psychiatrist in January to cure his dislike of school and was put on a psychiatric drug, Prozac. His parents said that when the dosage of the drug was increased, Timmy had violent mood swings and that he would “get really angry…”
*

May 21, 1998: Kip Kinkel, a 15-year-old at Thurston High School in Springfield, Oregon, murdered his parents and then proceeded to school where he opened fire on students in the cafeteria, killing two and wounding twenty-two. Kinkel had been prescribed both Ritalin and Prozac.
* April 16, 1999: Shawn Cooper, a 15-year-old-sophomore at Notus Junior-Senior High School in Notus, Idaho, was taking Ritalin when he fired two shotgun rounds, narrowly missing students and school staff.
*

May 20, 1999: T.J. Solomon, a 15-year-old at Heritage High School in Conyers, Ga., was being treated with Ritalin for depression when he opened fire on and wounded six classmat
------------------

The positive effects of Rital-In serve our teachers and society. Kids are sleeping in class. They become apathic and their vision are clouded by the drug's side effects. Here's the first step to create a robotic society. Since a while, I see a huge campain going on in my boy's school to repress their creativity and capacity to chose for themselves. Hitler is their new director. Masses are becoming more and more intolerant. Have you spend time in States in the past few months? They are becoming crazy. People are really intolerant.

In the first place, Norseman asked us to not spend time around here.Stay blind gang !Walk alone! Is it what you are asking us brother?

What was the Buddha message? Don't react to your environment or the outside world, overcome your emotions. Achieve a state of inner peace. See the beauty in all. The Rital-In can help kids to obtain that state of mind through drugs. Look how they operate on many websites. They are intolerant to others opinions and don't support you if you challenge their vision. What's their agenda? THE NON-EMOTIONAL agenda. That state of being can be achieve though drugs, informations control, creativity repression, intolerance.

In my opinion, there is natural ways to achieve the same kind of inner peace.

I feel the NASA made experimentations in the past and tried to reproduce that kind of state to create the new robotic society.

Watch!!

The chip is the second step

yinon

21-04-2007, 03:54 PM

What's the main drawback to fight counciousness awarness?

You'll give power to the pharmaceutic cartel and promote by the side many DRUGS to control masses behaviors.

I firmly believe that we can help masses to become more aware of what means tolerance and love

edelweiss pirate

21-04-2007, 04:38 PM

Hello Yinon,

It's not a 'robotic' human they're trying to create, it's an illuminated one.. They want us all to have masonic illuminated consciousness.

Our good friend GiftfromGod is a pertinent example...

There are many positive advantages (?) to illuminated consciousness, these include: reduced sex drive, reduced appetite, less need/inability to sleep, telepathy, hallucinations or seeing things that were previously invisible... The major one from the Illumies point of view is that you become hooked up to a group consciousness, whether you like it or not, therefore you are even easier to control than before...

AMERICA'S SUBVERSION
The Enemy Within
author: Sonny René Stermole

Chapter 6

The Trojan Horse - The Enemy Enters Within

Poised before the city's gate and walls, a man dressed in a white smock exclaims as he points to a Trojan Horse, "This is not a war-machine, this is science, this is art." The white-smocked man is himself an artist, a "spin artist." The "Trojan Horse" represents the art of deception and the science of warfare, indeed, and it is the appearance of art and the appearance of science which conceals the war-machine.

When in the First Degree Oath the Mason swears to ...

"ever conceal and never reveal any part or parts, art or arts, point or points of the secret arts and mysteries of ancient Freemasonry ..."
p. 21 ILLUSTRATIONS of MASONRY by ONE OF THE FRATERNITY
Who has devoted Thirty Years to the Subject. ...

Printed for the Proprietor, 1827, CAPT. WM. MORGAN'S

EXPOSITION OF FREEMASONRY

... it is apparent that it is not the "art" of Michelangelo, nor that of Vincent van Gogh which is implied.

Masonry has not limited itself to the art of deception, but has concealed within itself the "dark arts of espionage," occult arts of spiritistic practices, arts of spiritistic warfare. The foundation of Masonry is the "All-Seeing-Eye" of Lucifer, the human point of contact with Luciferic consciousness, spiritistic "illumination," the "incarnation on the physical plane" of demon entities "permeating the "brain-mind.""

One of the Middle Ages guises or clandestine vehicles under whose cover spiritistic practices were perpetuated was known as alchemy. "Science" served as a guise.

The real purpose of the gold makers was gradually and cautiously revealed, although a certain amount of discretion was still necessary. The mysticism of alchemy ... The secret tradition in alchemy, with its divine science of human regeneration and redemption, ....
p. 24 Orders of the Great Work: Alchemy, by Manly P. Hall, 1949, 1976

Occult "redemption," the 'serpent bite to the brain' facilitated with drugs and/or meditative techniques which alter the consciousness and produce a trance-like state in which a spirit entity "floods" the consciousness of a human being, was hidden from the public in a vehicle which flourished under the name of "science."

-- "Science" as a Trojan Horse --

It is important to remember that alchemy did not take on the overtones of the World Mystery until it became the vehicle of that Society of Unknown Philosophers
p. 63
which set up the Invisible Empire, to perpetuate in the modern world the great Mystery Schools of antiquity.
p. 64 Orders of the Great Work: Alchemy, by Manly P. Hall, 1949, 1976

Alchemy served as an adroit masquerade, a Trojan Horse "vehicle" on European soil dominated by the Roman Catholic Church, to perpetuate the esoteric arts of spiritistic "illumination" of the mystery religions. Masonry and Alchemy have traditionally concealed the use of "psychic" power and it's source, Lucifer.

"Masonry ,... and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled;
p. 104 Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike

Masonry and Alchemy have a legacy of "false explanations" as a cover to engage in the "Great Work," and to engage in restoring a set of conditions on earth which is referred to as "the golden age." The Lucifer associated spirit entities no doubt regard their walking the earth before the Noahcian Flood as a golden age, for themselves, and it is an age which they are intent on restoring by means of their "re-incarnation."

The foundations of alchemy shifted, and
p. 24
the abstract symbolism was applied to the transformation of corrupt governments, thus preparing the way for the emergence of a democratic-socialized way of life. In time, the mystic-chemists became mystic-politicians. They bound themselves into a Secret Empire of Philosophic Reformers. Through them, magical, cabalistic, and transcendental lore was focused upon the practical task of the restoration of the golden age. This golden age was the symbol of the Philosophic Empire.
p. 25 Orders of the Great Work: Alchemy, by Manly P. Hall, 1949, 1976

The "corrupt" governments linked with the Roman Catholic Church which had been influenced and corrupted by the pagan mystery religions were targeted to be replaced by governments ultimately even more corrupted in mystery religion.

The alchemical laboratory became the shrine of the spiritual sciences, taking the place of the ruined sanctuaries of the ancient Mysteries, which had been defiled by war, pillage, and the corruption of priesthoods. It was no longer possible to protect the physical houses of initiation. With the decline of the temporal power of pagan States, the hereditary descent of priestly offices became dangerous and
p. 19
impractical. One by one the shrines were sought out and demolished, and legislation enacted to prevent their re-establishment. It became unsafe even to be suspected of addiction to classical philosophy. ...
The initiate-philosophers simply transferred their temples, shrines, sanctuaries, and palaces to a less tangible but equally real sphere of action. They rebuilt their Empire "along the shores of the air;" that is, on the plane of mind, substituting psychological association for physical Fraternities. Their enemies could not attack successfully these airy fortresses, and the old wisdom continued to permeate the social structure from within. The Mystery teaching emerged under a variety of symbols, emblems, and figures. It took up its abode in the very camp of its adversaries, gradually transmuting all other doctrines into the likeness of itself. It became the Universal Proteus, taking on all appearances at will, yet never revealing its own shape. This Invisible Empire was beyond the reach of the profane. Occasionally one of its citizens (initiates) was apprehended and destroyed, but another immediately filled the vacancy. The machinery of the Inquisition was set in motion against this Empire of the sages, but persecution only strengthened the resolution of these unknown philosophers.
Alchemy was one of the earliest appearances of the Mystery Schools in early Christian Europe. The contrivance was most adroit. It appealed to the ideals of the idealists, and to the avarice of the avaricious.
p. 20 Orders of the Great Work: Alchemy, by Manly P. Hall, 1949, 1976

A "most adroit" "contrivance," Alchemy, a front for the perpetuation of the occult practices of ancient mystery religion, served as a "vehicle" for the "Invisible Empire" of occult Adepts.

The "Trojan Horse" of Alchemy on the soil of European rulerships which were linked with the Roman Catholic Church served as a most adroit means of concealment. Eventually the "machinery of the Inquisition" would be dwarfed in scope by the "machinery of Masonry." Mazzini's occult Machine would entrench itself in Western civilization, corrupt it, perpetrate perversion of justice in the judiciary, in the legislature, and engage in the most sinister methods of violating human beings and their human rights.

The occult conspiracy represents nothing less than a war on the human race by evil powers, clandestinely disenfranchising human rights, violating them, subverting the very soul of man.

This chapter considers some of the most sinister methods which New Age "warriors" have available to themselves to contrive or attempt to compel persons to submit to an earth-wide completion of the Luciferian Plan to accomplish the "Great Work" of re-incarnating Lucifer's angels. Following chapters consider more. Knowing the objectives and methods of the occult conspiracy, it becomes easier to distinguish a "science project" from a concealed war-machine, a Michelangelo from a "Trojan Horse"

-- Warriors of an Invisible Empire --

One of the principle reasons for secrecy in Masonry and other occult secret societies has been to permit the clandestine recruitment of others to join their Machine. The means of recruitment have included very subtle means by which persons become involved in stages, by steps or degrees. The formation of a virtual army of spiritistic warriors particularly facilitated by the machinery of secret societies has been in process, particularly since the formation of Adam Weishaupt's "ultimate secret society," the Order of the Illuminati, the Masters of Masonry, perpetuating the Princes of the Invisible Empire while expanding their influence.

Thus, the adepts were recruiting the Sons of Light {Lucifer's}, who were to form the Army of the Elect. These were instructed to remain in readiness until "the day be with us." The inner machinery of this program was too subtle to be captured in the pages of prosaic history. Only the consequences appeared as "effects deprived of their cause." As the philosophic program unfolded, the adepts revealed themselves as Princes of the Invisible Empire.
p. 7 Orders of the Great Work: Alchemy, by Manly P. Hall, 1949, 1976

An "Army of the Elect" who have been active, whether in the Masonic Machine, in the New Age Movement, or in other spiritistic, occult societies are spoken of as remaining in readiness until "the day be with us." There is, therefore, much more to the occult conspiracy than the activities or the scope thereof which has been pursued by the members of occult fraternities thus far, which in themselves have been quite extensive.

The New Age movement refers to a spirit entity speaking through the body of a human as "channeling." One such entity of Lucifer's New Age movement is that of "Lord Maitreya." The unpeaceful designs of the powers behind the New Age movement are more than simply alluded to.

Through his human voice, Benjamin Creme, Lord Maitreya {the discarnate spirit} has arrogantly crowed:
The time of My Emergence has arrived; and soon how, in full vision and fact, My Face and Words will become known.
p. 167
May you be among those who quickly find and recognize Me, for, if you do, you may become My Warriors.
My Army is now on the move and soon the clash of battle will be heard. The outcome of this battle is assured, for at my side are True Sons of God.
Take your places in the ranks of My Army, My friends, and create the New Time, the Time of God.
p. 168 Mystery Mark of The New Age:
Satan's Design for World Domination, Texe Marrs,1988

{footnote: Benjamin Creme, Messages from Maitreya, pp. 42, 87}

The New Age "Time of God" is the time of Lucifer.

"True" Masons do not simply form a power base in Mazzini's Masonic Machine. They become part of the inner machinery and become Lucifer's warriors who apply his seething energies.

When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy.
...
p. 48 The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, Manly P. Hall., 1923, 1976

Manly P. Hall's (33rd degree) reference to the Mason as a "warrior" in applying the "seething energies of Lucifer" is not coincidental. Hall himself speaks of "the Army of the Elect" being "instructed to remain in readiness until "the day be with us.""

To repeat and emphasize,

Warning, the following is a quotation !
Note: fancy brackets { } enclose America's Subversion's author's reference based on the "Masonic Light" source as "Lucifer."

Thus, the adepts were recruiting the Sons of Light {Lucifer's}, who were to form the Army of the Elect. These were instructed to remain in readiness until "the day be with us." ...
p. 7 Orders of the Great Work: Alchemy, by Manly P. Hall, 1949, 1976

The Masonic Machine is identified by the "illustrious" Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree, as a War Machine, in effect, a Trojan War Machine holding within itself "the Army of the Elect ... instructed to remain in readiness until "the day be with us." That Masonic Trojan War Machine extoled by Hall is essentially represented by Albert Pike as penetrating society under pretenses, that is, by "false explanations," presenting "misinterpretations ... to mislead." Masonic leaders reveal that the Masonic Machine has been at work, and their writings reveal ways in which it has been operating, but Hall's description evidently deals with aspects which go beyond the traditional behind-the-scenes activities engaged in thus far. Hall's other references such as those of "restoring the Mysteries" to their "rightful place" and having "adepts" gain public recognition as rulers have to do with ushering in a one-world government and a one-world religion. To accomplish the groundwork for their "Plan" many guises, a multitude of veritable "Trojan Horses" of spiritistic or occult practices are used to obtain witting or unwitting support for their practices. The campaign involves, however, not simply corrupting the public with their programs, but of "forming" "the Army of the Elect."

The public campaign to recruit warriors for the occult conspiracy has manifested itself in a variety of New Age programs. As with the case of Alchemy, "science" is a term used to recruit persons into processes and techniques which work insidiously with the power of gradualism. The steps, the processes of New Age techniques lead to an ultimate objective, which is often hidden from newcomers. Occult practices generally concealed within secret societies or co-opted by secret services have, in the public domain, been increasingly the "subject" of "research." The spiritualist movement founded psychic "research" organizations, while governments have kept the lid on the "research" as secret societies continued to work behind-the-scenes to influence political, religious and social developments. Particularly since the 1960's, the counter-culture in America served as fertile soil for promoting mind-altering drugs, eastern mysticism, astrology, the occult, and spirit guides. In the 1980's mass marketing of New Age practices made even greater strides. In the 1990's, the emphasis on having the public adopt spiritistic practices, adopting "research" in psychic powers, has gained considerable momentum.

Ultimately, this research goes on in a very special laboratory: the mind and body of a single human being. Warriors throughout history have found the keys to that laboratory and the inexhaustible potential that lies behind its doors. Use the laboratory at your disposal and join us at the warrior's edge.
p. 218 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The application made in the book The Warrior's Edge is not simply to personnel in the military, who are military "warriors." Techniques are therein specifically taught to the public to make psychic "warriors" out of persons in civilian life, and in business life. What is frightening is that the three authors of the book, The Warrior's Edge, having elite U.S. military backgrounds, teach techniques in which other human beings are put at the disposal of terrible psychic human rights violations. Other human beings, as well as the practitioners themselves, become the "very special laboratory" at the level of "the mind and body of a single human being." The "warriors" are not taught fundamentally to exert psychic powers upon themselves and do war against themselves, but to apply their techniques in working their will upon others. The authors admit or propose that the terminology of spiritism has been changed, and that it serves utilitarian purposes in essentially undemonizing the appearance of techniques which they teach.

-- Adroits --

One of the principle methods of operation still in use at the time of the writing of this book has been substantial concealment of purpose by Masonry, by the New Age movement. The goal of "re-incarnation," of "permeating" the "mind-brain" of humans to incarnate discarnate spirit entities would no doubt have traditionally had less success if they had just come right out with it. Just as Satan, or Lucifer, and his demons have presented themselves under other names, they have presented themselves, their agents, and their techniques with skillful camouflage.

Illuminism in reality is less an Order than a principle, and a principle which can work better under cover of something else. Weishaupt himself had laid down the precept that the work of Illuminism could best be conducted "under other names and other occupations," and henceforth we shall always find it carried on by this skilful system of camouflage.
p. 236 Secret Societies and Subversive Movements, Nesta H. Webster, 1924

One is struck not simply with the adroitness with which many proponents of the New Age present their techniques, but one is sometimes struck by their candidness.

Language can play a powerful part in the change of beliefs. Sometimes changing the words used to describe an item or event can have great impact. For example, most people believe that it is wrong to kill another human being, yet we send our young off to war and expect them to rapidly change their beliefs and begin killing on command. To facilitate this change, we often use new words, commonly racist in nature, to describe the enemy.
... because words can have positive as well as negative power, we will teach you some new words for new capabilities.
p. 24 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The authors teach that "the shaman of the past becomes the techno-shaman of today." The reader should note that although the authors point to the usefulness of changing the words or language in order to change a person's beliefs, it is, perhaps, more accurate to say in connection with the quoted expression that new words are being used for old capabilities, capabilities formerly concealed from the public by means of secret societies and by means of governments which had co-opted the use of psychic powers in espionage. However, due to concealment of the use and very existence of many human rights violating psychic powers, many persons in the general public would no doubt regard such powers as new to them. Yet, the authors seem to have done quite well in describing a process in which "to facilitate this change {of beliefs} we often use new words ..." The "old" words used therein to describe what it is that they are doing seem to be quite adequate to convey the meaning or import of their mission. Contextually, the example which the authors use is intriguing, because they use a moral issue, and as will be demonstrated from their own book, moral or ethical barriers in adopting amoral methods which they teach for application by the general public, is what they evidently attempt to dismantle. Techno-shaman ? Adroit language.

The "shaman" of today and of the past has relied on spirit guides. Similarly, spiritualists also have relied on "spirit guides," which have facilitated what are known as psychic powers mediumistically produced, whether in a complete or partial trance state, typically in an altered state of consciousness. Modern spiritualism began in 1848 with the Fox sisters in upstate New York. When a spirit engaged in fierce bangings and rappings at their new home, the Fox sisters responded by speaking to the spirit and received answers with knocks. Other manifestations followed, spiritualist circles formed and interest in spirit mediumship spread. Séances and spirit mediumship became the rage in America and Europe. Spirit guides imparted teachings upon which doctrinal beliefs were formed and spirit mediums who operated in a partial trance condition exhibited psychic powers such as telepathy.

New terminology, new language is designed to attribute such spirit entity induced effects on the human brain in such a way as to divert attention away from the true source of powers, at least until such a time that the individual is addicted to occult practices.

When shorn of spiritualism and trained by scientific method, the shaman of the past becomes the techno-shaman of today, a psychic warrior capable of using the tools of science to reveal the secrets hidden within the human mind.
p. 10 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Hooking electrodes up to a person's brain while he is in a trance state or while he is "channeling" a spirit entity does not make "science" out of spiritism. "Tools of science" ? Does a shaman with one or more spirit guides become a "techno-shaman" if he utilizes measuring instruments ? The yogi meditation practices of Eastern mystics have enabled the entry of discarnate beings to communicate with elderly persons and supposedly prepared them for the "next life" in their later years and has been modernized for the West. The issue of emptying one's mind and the application of particular breathing techniques to enter trance states are exposed in a later discussion, but the reader is no doubt already informed about the "Kundalini force," evidently employed by the Templars and Rosicrucians, which is involved in Tantric, or sexual yoga. Adroitly, persons are led into dangerous spiritistic fields while being told those fields are "science" fields.

Kundalini yoga had its origins in ancient India thousands of years ago. ...
p. 162
The military application of kundalini yoga dates back over five thousand years, to the time when powerful individuals known as rishis developed (over generations) control and mastery of kundalini yoga.
...
In both military and civilian life, there are many potential applications of advanced breathing techniques. ...
p. 163 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The kundalini "serpent" force is now packaged as science, and the contrivance is obvious.

Because of the flagrant misrepresentation and mislabeling, many purchasers of what they have been persuaded are scientific methods for developing their full potential are in fact being led into religious beliefs and practices.
...
Transcendental meditation (TM) is a typical example of New Age misrepresentation. When Maharishi Mahes Yogi first introduced TM to the West, he openly taught that it was a Hindu religious practice and that its real purpose was to produce "a legendary substance ... in the meditator's body so the Gods of the Hindu pantheon could be fed and awakened!" But when he was denied access to public schools and government funding on the grounds that he was promoting religious practices, Maharishi quickly deleted all reference to religion and began presenting TM as a science. Nothing was changed except the labels. This deception has been furthered by the many celebrities, athletes, psychiatrists, and other leaders who have practiced and promoted TM, some no doubt without recognizing that it is in fact pure Hinduism.
p. 47 The New Spirituality:
A Consumer's Guide to the Exploding Mystical Marketplace,

Dave Hunt & T.A. McMahon,1988

{Formerly titled: America: the sorcerer's new apprentice}

Do measurable changes in the respiration, heart rate or EKG patterns make yogi practice a "science" ? Outright intense demon possession in voodoo ceremonies also have measurable effects. What is the agency of the effects produced ? Are Christian and Jewish parents told that their children are learning "science" when in reality their children are participating in spiritism, coming in contact with spirit entities which condition or alter thought processes ?

While psychic powers, which have been for the most part covered-up by secret societies and national governments, are now being mass marketed to the public, in many of the presentations the real source of the psychic powers continues to be covered-up for the public. The "new word" "science" is used to obfuscate the source of supernatural entity-intervening activities. The "skillful camouflage" of "changing the words" makes it easier for persons to get involved in practices which they might otherwise avoid, and avoid strenuously.

Only the multidisciplined warrior, the techno-shaman, can scale the walls of ignorance and shed light over the prevailing darkness. The warrior spirit must guide this process. So we will teach you how to become warriors in the spirit, as well as the physical, realm.
p. 14 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Very adroit.

It is learned from a variety of sources promoting psychic powers that eventually, the practitioner learns that spirit guides are at the core of psychic powers. Quite literally, it is "the spirit... realm" through which the person obtains the means to become a "psychic warrior." It is quite literally a spirit guide, or warrior guide, which opens the psychic eye, which permeates the "brain-mind," which transforms the person, even transmutes the person. Language can be not only adroit, but disarming.

Because this is a book about human potential, the nature of reality, and "psychic" phenomena, we will present a new perspective, showing how psychic phenomena fit into a quantum-mechanical model of reality. The misnomer psychic is particularly unfortunate, given the number of tricksters and charlatans who have appropriated it, because psychic, or psi, potential are within the grasp of everyone. If an individual realizes that these phenomena are not unnatural, the work of the devil, or the province of social deviants, the results of this training can be a greater confidence, a more effective and integrated sense of self, and dominion over a wide range of human experience.
p. 10 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The authors assert that "psychic phenomena" fits "into a quantum-mechanical model of reality. The authors present four models and state that "No one knows which, if any, of these models is the correct one." "If any" ? "No one knows" ? The "no one knows" "new perspective" using a "change in words" to take the spiritualism out of shamanism is not exactly what one might call a "reality map." For that matter, psychic test results reported in the book The Mind Race disproves the postulated link the Russians made between psychic phenomena and electromagnetic brain waves. Having in mind the "scientific method" experiments in The Mind Race, it is easy to come to the conclusion, although the authors of The Warrior's Edge use the expression "when trained in scientific method," that the "techno-shaman" in reality becomes the "shaman."

In the following chapters, we will unroll a reality map that includes telepathy, psychokinesis, and manipulation of time by the human mind. To perform extraordinary acts, some warriors need only faith.
{this is followed by 4 models of psi}
...

No one knows which, if any, of these models is the correct one. No one knows for certain how consciousness interacts with the phenomenal world.
p. 111 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

This chapter further demonstrates from the statements of the authors of The Warrior's Edge that the claim that psychic phenomena is not the work of the devil is a diversionary claim, specious. The preponderant contradictions of the positions proposed in matters of morality or ethics demonstrate that the very essence of what is taught in such a book personifies evil, personifies sinister violations of the human body and of the human will. This analysis is necessary to better understand how the term science is falsely used to facilitate the entry of evil, discarnate entities into the human soul, and how individuals, groups and nations subvert foundation principles of the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution.

-- War on a Civilian Population --

The authors of The Warrior's Edge promote the use of "psychic phenomena" and teach techniques to achieve and implement such powers. Having admitted that "changing the words ... can have great impact," and that "when shorn of spiritualism ... the shaman of the past becomes the techno-shaman of today, a psychic warrior," it is important to examine what their ethical base is which they publicly advocate to those whom they teach.

All intelligence techniques require ruthlessness, duplicity, and absolute integrity. No, these are not contradictions in terms. If you are using influence technologies correctly, you can and will achieve your objective by the manipulation of others. Recognize what you are doing; we do. If this manipulation is for the eventual benefit of these others as well as yourself, then you are adhering to the warrior ethic.
p. 216 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

It's actually in black and white.

Achieving one's objectives by the manipulation of others is advocated and described as the warrior ethic. Integrity is explained or defined in terms of ruthlessness and duplicity. These characteristics are at the heart of what they refer to as the warrior's edge, and they openly declare that they are practicers of what they preach.

The discipline required is the discipline of the open mind. That discipline is at the heart of what we call the warrior's edge.
... we are practitioners of what we preach.
p. 14 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Operating with such a declared and advocated foundation of ruthlessness, duplicity and the manipulation of others, the author's would persuade you that psychic phenomena is not "the work of the devil," and feel confident that "the warrior spirit must guide this process. So we will teach you how to become warriors in the spirit ... realm." The author's have certainly come up with "new words" for integrity, and appear to attempt to redefine other words, but an analysis of the methods advocated to acquire psychic power will continue to point to the actual spirit realm as the source of psychic power, and actual spirit guides, to guide the psychic warrior process.

So what is meant by "influence technologies" ? First it should be observed that the authors themselves refer to the means which are used as "technologies." The invasion of privacy, the intrusion upon the property, bodies and minds of other human beings is referred to as technology. There are certainly laws explicit and implicit in the United States Constitution and supporting bodies of laws against the violation of fundamental human rights. Yet, the example of the Russians apparently poses no deterrent to the advocacy of fundamentally egregious human rights violating "technologies."

... the Russians identify ... the following discrete skills:
... telepathy (using the human mind to tap into
the thoughts of others)
remote viewing (to see or otherwise monitor
events occurring at a distant location)
... psychokinesis (PK -- altering or affecting
molecular states)
All these phenomena involve using the mind and/or some "field" of the body to affect other minds and inanimate objects, sometimes at a distance, without the intervention of conventional mechanisms such as electronics or tools.
Of all the categories listed above, one of the most useful and interesting is remote viewing, sometimes called remote perception or remote sensing. Remote viewing allows a practitioner to acquire information irrespective of intervening distance -- or elapsed time. This capability has obvious intelligence-gathering potential, and studies at Stanford Research Institute, as well as other research, verify it's usefulness. Think of what it would be like to be able to learn, in advance, what a competitor or an ally is thinking or to know the plans or state of mind of another person, even if that person is half a world away. Other governments have.
p. 11 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Psychic means or methods which the authors direct the reader's or psychic "warrior's" attention to include telepathy, using a definition not simply of communicating from mind to mind by cooperative participants but of "using the human mind to tap into the thoughts of others." The authors speak of 'affecting other minds as well as inanimate objects' "sometimes at a distance" by obviously clandestine means and refer to the term "psychokinesis" or PK. They promote psychic "remote viewing" and spur the potential psychic warrior into contemplating "what it would be like to learn ... what a competitor ... is thinking or to know the plans or state of mind of another person" even at a distance. The authors attempt to discard the thought that the enabling forces involved are "the work of the devil" and portray the human rights violating methods as "technology."

Regardless of whether the authors speak of "intervention" without "conventional mechanisms such as electronics or tools," persons who invent or deploy new, unconventional mechanisms or devise other unconventional inventions would be in deep trouble if they tapped into White House telephone conversations. Tapping into your competitor's telephone or office conversations is not a right which the Founding Fathers of America secured in the Bill of Rights. The Fourth Amendment of the Constitution expressly protects fundamental human rights.

On the issue of "influence technology," there is a preponderant difference between inviting someone to lunch and presenting logical arguments for buying your wares compared to clandestinely slipping a drug into someone's coffee, hypnotizing a person and thereby getting him to sign on the dotted line. Promoting psychically "... using the mind ... to affect other minds ... at a distance" represents an assault on America's Constitutional fiber. "Using influence technologies ... {to} achieve your objective by the manipulation of others" has brought the "enemy" of human rights into the public sector in the name of the "techno-shaman." Fundamentally it is very difficult to disguise such a grotesque violation of human rights, whether through a euphemistic vehicle entitled "science project," or by having a bumper sticker reading "techno-shaman." Even in the Soviet Union a psychic who evidently refused to participate in "research" to psychically influence others exclaimed, "I will never do your dirty work."

The Soviets may recently have encountered problems in obtaining individuals willing to participate in research designed to psychically influence others. One unidentified psychic is quoted on film as telling Soviet psi researchers, "I will never do your dirty work." This type of response from gifted subjects may influence the future of Soviet research and development in the field of psychotronics.
p. 151 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The issue of "psychic influence," consciously acting to influence or manipulate others through the use of psychic powers has well been described in the former Soviet Empire by one dissenter as "dirty work." The thrust and focus of The Warrior's Edge is not written diplomacy skills but the acquisition and application of psychic powers to influence and manipulate others.

The warrior must be able to consciously influence others. Just as politics is a controlled attempt to influence a domestic constituency, diplomacy is a measured attempt to exert national will upon another nation or group of nations. When an attempt at international influence breaks down and global imperatives are not met, warfare often results.
p. 44 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Strange, indeed. Haven't wars been fought to preserve the rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights ? If psychic warfare and "exerting national will upon another" is what the quoted authors would recommend to avert warfare, watch out ! Such exertion efforts to impose one nations' will upon another has caused warfare. With that "new" understanding of "diplomacy," one can certainly see that the Third Reich certainly had more than it's share of "diplomats" using The Warrior's Edge definitions. Where "ruthlessness" and "duplicity" have applied, the "new age" of the Third Reich certainly was not caught short in the area which is newly defined as "absolute integrity." Adopting the teachings of The Warrior's Edge appears to be less a case of "requiring" "the open mind," analytically, as it is of "emptying the mind" of the precepts which the Founding Fathers declared in writing.

-- Empty Minds - The Devil's Workplace --

Emptying the mind of fundamental principles of ethics and fundamental human rights underlies psychic influence, manipulation and intrusion.

Further, emptying the mind of all or virtually all thoughts is an occult technique taught to open the mind to spiritistic influence. To facilitate emptying the mind of one's own thoughts, the participant is taught to "free the mind of all thought's via detachment" or to concentrate on one point or "one chosen thought, without interruption", which effectively excludes the thought process from the human mind.

Our second mental exercise uses repetitious sounds or tonal vibrations that have no particular meaning but are useful in emptying the mind. One sound that is familiar to most people is
p. 34
om, or aum. This ancient Sanskrit world is said to replicate the basic sound of the universe. Such chants, used around the world, often have a very soothing effect. The purpose of the pure monosyllabic tonal qualities of aum is one of repetition, to free the mind of all thoughts via detachment, rather than to analyze complex and abstract concepts.
While the tonal approach is not recommended for use in the workplace, it is of great benefit when creating deeper states of relaxation within yourself. These states, once mastered, can also be instantly accessed with sufficient training.
p. 35 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Stilling the conscious mind" is the ultimate objective of techniques promoted. The security of a person's mind from outside influence in "these states", whether in civilian or military life, is also at issue.

Remember, ultimately your purpose is to control your mind, to be able to think one chosen thought, without interruption, for as long as you desire.
The next exercise in our arsenal of mental techniques for quieting the mind is meditation. Stilling the conscious mind is the ultimate idea of meditation, a preliminary step toward focusing mental powers on a single point. Many members of the military practice meditation; it has never been adopted as a training technique, although several proposals to do this have been put forward.
p. 36 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Subsequently, or consequently, "external thoughts may intrude." Stilling the conscious mind" is the ultimate objective of a variety of techniques which allow or are designed to invite "intruding thoughts," through which the enemy enters within.

As you practice any of the described techniques, external thoughts may intrude. ... One solution is to gently acknowledge the thought and then return to your word or sound.
p. 35
Do not become distracted by focusing on the intruding thought; you may then find it more difficult to banish the thought from your mind. For this reason, we suggest acknowledging the thought before returning to the exercise. Often, the intruding thought is an answer to a problem you have been unable to solve. By acknowledging that you have received the information and will work on it later, your subconscious mind should stop intruding and allow you to return to the activity.
p. 36 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The idea of acknowledging "external thoughts which intrude" while having blanked out one's own mind is by no means unique to The Warrior's Edge. It represents one of the more advanced techniques of Neuro Linguistic Programming in which hypnotic techniques are applied to oneself and to others. It also represents the path of Eastern Mysticism. The mind thereby closes itself to one's own thoughts and opens to the entry of the influence of discarnate spirits. The authors speak of the subconscious mind as imposing with intruding thoughts, but the results of the steps are by no means explained in terms of the actions of simply a "subconscious mind."

The authors' concept of controlling one's mind is by means of a method by which one's thought processes are shut down. "The purpose ... is ... to free the mind of all thoughts ... rather than to analyze complex and abstract concepts." That's one way to come up with "ruthlessness" and "duplicity" as answers to the question "What is integrity ?"

New Age leader and wife to 33rd Degree Mason Foster Bailey wrote this about the subject of the impressionability of the human mind at what she describes as the unconscious, or subconscious, level.

1. Those possessing unconscious receptivity to telepathic impression. ...
Under this group we must, therefore, class all mediumistic phenomena, even those of the highest astral or spiritual nature ...
p. 88 Telepathy, Alice A. Bailey, 1950

Alice Bailey is noted for transcribing teachings of a New Age spirit guide, Djwhal Khul. For authors' to speak of activity at the "subconscious" or "unconscious" level does not necessarily mean that a person's own mind is the source of information provided. New Age leader Alice Bailey has referred to "unconscious receptivity to telepathic impression." The association is made to that of spirit beings impressing thoughts on the individual mediumistically.

One path to the opening of the psychic eye, or mediumistic phenomena, begins with such exercises of consciously blanking out one's own thoughts and the willingness to have thoughts intrude and responding to them. What does this path lead to ?

2, Those who are developing or have developed a conscious receptivity wherein the impression is, first of all, received by the mind and then imparted to and registered by the brain. The one who is the impressing agent in this case works via the centre between the eyebrows, the ajna centre.
With this last mentioned type of communication, there will be found mixed certain messages or impressions ...
... the disciple begins to realize certain differences, a new type of registration will awaken and guide the disciple's consciousness.
p. 88 Telepathy, Alice A. Bailey, 1950

Such exercises as proposed by The Warrior's Edge, as well as methods involving person to person initiation, can lead to the "opening of the psychic eye." From the body of information available from practitioners or former practitioners, there are changes which take place in the thought processes of the individual, which might be expected when a "point of consciousness" with a discarnate being is established. Schnoebelen and many others refer to it as "illumination." Alice Bailey speaks of "a new type of registration" awakening and guiding the disciple's consciousness. The Warrior's Edge speaks of the "warrior spirit" which guides the process. That actual spirit guides are involved in the process of acquiring psychic powers is referred to by Dr. Richard Lawrence, a "leading psychic practitioner" in his 1993 book Unlock your Psychic Powers. Dr. Lawrence, while promoting psychic powers, alerts persons to dangers of blanking out one's mind and what such exercises can lead to. Critically, it can be observed that books promoting the acquisition or development of psychic powers often leave the substantial warnings to the end or near end of the book, if they contain them at all.

I know of cases where people have successfully practiced mediumship using a semiconscious trance condition. They have found that although the results of the mediumship were very good and helpful in every way, this practice, over a period
p. 93
of time, started to undermine their own willpower. By constantly allowing others to take them over, even partially, and hence giving up some of their sense of will and control over their consciousness to guides on a frequent basis, a certain undermining was taking place of their mental capacity and they became mentally weaker as a result.
p. 94 Unlock Your Psychic Powers: Mastering One's Psychic Potential,
Dr. Richard Lawrence, 1993, (by a "leading psychic practitioner")

Dr. Lawrence is referring to interposing spirit guides. Although he deserves credit for not speaking of "techno-shamans," for many persons finding intense warnings at the end of a how-to-do-it-book might seem a bit like finding a toxic warning label inside the bottom of a box of stuff which you ordinarily might not even want to touch, let alone eat. The shock alone from reading the warning label at the bottom of the box of stuff you just ate could be quite hazardous in itself.

Lesser states than this, however, require anything from a partial to a complete negation of conscious mental control in
p. 96
order to be taken over by the communicating entity. The reason for this is that the operation of the conscious mind is an obstacle to the psychic entity who wishes to overshadow your consciousness, and unless you are able to tap the full powers of your superconsciousness, as for example in the Samadhic trance referred to, then a partial mental vacuum is left by you for an outside entity to occupy. Once this mental vacuum has been created, an overshadowing entity can use it exactly as it chooses. In extreme cases, such as certain tribal rites where alcohol, sex and even animal sacrifices are used to encourage the medium, native doctor or priest of the tribe to enter the trance state, the condition used may be extremely dangerous. Almost an entire mental vacuum is created within the person. He or she can then be 'taken over' by whatever entity so chooses, and judging by some of the rituals performed in these tribes, the entity is not a very pleasant or positive one. It is foolish to dismiss such rites and ceremonies as meaningless nonsense -- in certain cases powerful magic is performed on these occasions. But they are certainly dangerous, and can attract malicious and evil entities to overshadow the blanked-out mind of the medium, or even cause the medium to become mentally deranged.
I have met victims of negative trance, who have attempted to commune with the deceased or even perform other practices which involved blanking out the mind and with it part of the will.. Some of these have become fully or partially possessed. There is sometimes a narrow dividing line between mental illness and psychic delusion.
...
... for many psychological illnesses are related to both psychological disturbance and psychic interference.
p. 97 Unlock Your Psychic Powers: Mastering One's Psychic Potential,
Dr. Richard Lawrence, 1993, (by a "leading psychic practitioner")

One must admit, if Dr. Lawrence would state such warnings at the beginning of his book, it could put the chill on a desire to "Unlock Your Psychic Powers."

Yet, even with the stark disclosures which Dr. Lawrence makes, one does not get the full story.

Examine the statement:

" ... the operation of the conscious mind is an obstacle to the psychic entity who wishes to overshadow your consciousness, and unless you are able to tap the full powers of your superconsciousness, as for example in the Samadhic trance referred to, then a partial mental vacuum is left by you for an outside entity to occupy."
p. 97 Unlock Your Psychic Powers: Mastering One's Psychic Potential,
Dr. Richard Lawrence, 1993, (by a "leading psychic practitioner")

The evident inference is that if "the Samadhic trance" is achieved, one does not need to worry about a "psychic entity who wishes to overshadow your consciousness", that one need not worry about a "partial mental vacuum ... for an outside entity to occupy." Manly P. Hall, 33rd degree Mason, explains that the ultimate state of illumination or "samadhi" involves casting aside the mind "as a snare and a delusion."

The Buddhist priest entering into Nirvana, and the Brahman bridging the chasm between mortal consciousness and samadhi,
p. 66
both cast aside mind as a snare and a delusion; yet without it the very principles upon which they work would be incomprehensible to them. The Eastern mind, endeavoring to annihilate the unreal and mingle itself with the Real, depends first upon the intellect to reveal the processes of illumination and the reasonableness of their abstract conceptions. The Western schools of philosophy differ from the Eastern in the they teach the perfection of the mind before its rejection, whereas the Eastern schools are prone to regard the mind as a hindrance, to be discarded at the very beginning of spiritual growth. Thus the Eastern mystic with his own nature slays the mind, while the Western philosopher, by elevating the mind to a realization of its own insufficiency, causes the intellect voluntarily to offer itself as a willing sacrifice upon the altar of spirit.
p. 67 Lectures on Ancient Philosophy: An Introduction To Practical Ideals
Manly P. Hall, 1984

This is a good description to deliver to persons before they line up for "the Samadhic trance" who have the idea that they can avoid a "psychic entity who wishes to overshadow your consciousness" and that one need not worry about a "partial mental vacuum ... for an outside entity to occupy" with the Samadhic consciousness, or "super-consciousness."

It should make a person reconsider deciding to "cast aside mind as a snare and a delusion." The Lucifer "Lie" is the "snare and a delusion." The process of "illumination" or the process described as "evolution" "to godhood" is a process of casting one's own mind aside and having another entity overshadow and eclipse one's own mind.

-- "Intuition" - The Troy Defense -

The process of "stilling the conscious mind" or of "emptying the mind" to enable "external thoughts" to "intrude" is the basis for what The Warrior's Edge characterizes as "intuitive decision making." It is the "Troy Defense," opening the barriers of the mind to give the enemy access to enter within.

To quiet the mind, there are two different approaches you may employ. One is a process of concentration; the other, a process of detachment. Both are good techniques.
p. 34 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Concentrating on one point to the exclusion of others, shutting down the active thought process is one technique whereas "detachment" by emptying the mind of thoughts directly is another Trojan technique. Defense by opening or dismantling one's barriers which otherwise prevent or limit the entry of the enemy or the enemy's devices represents "defense" through making oneself vulnerable, susceptible. The process of detaching one's mind, practicing "casting it aside" forms the first step in New Age "intuitive decision making." It is a first step to providing space "for an outside entity to occupy."

Defense through intuitive decision making is defense through detection and countermeasure. We have told you how intuition has saved lives and careers. Listen to what your heart tells you. Never shut out your intuition. It is your link to the warrior's edge.
p. 216 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Advising the readers "never {to} shut out your intuition" is like saying "never shut out" a Trojan Horse. The armed warriors inside the enemy's Greek Trojan Horse had the real warrior's edge when they emerged at night and opened the city's gates to a horde of invasive troops which then conquered the city. If Dr. Lawrence's warnings are not adequate testimony of ruined lives and careers, there is no shortage of supplemental testimony.

According to The Warrior's Edge authors, the key is to "set aside" one's "belief systems" of what constitutes the process of what they call "intuition," and to apply and use techniques and psychic powers at one's discretion.

Andrew Weil, in his book The Natural Mind, states, Intuitive flashes are transient, spontaneous altered states of consciousness consisting of particular sensory experience or thoughts, coupled with strong emotional reactions," and suggests that intuition is an internal process of rational or analytic thought.
Some psychologists argue that intuition, rather than being a supernatural or an unconscious process, is subliminally provided perception of data or insight already available to unconscious cueing. Rather than choose from among these explanations, we recommend that you temporarily set aside belief systems, apply the process we will describe and, if it works, continue to use it at your discretion.
p. 118 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The term "intuition" is used as "new language" for old practices. The two examples given of attempts to define a term called "intuition" both attempt to exclude "supernatural" intervention or influence. In the first example, however, there is certainly no imperative to exclude the supernatural from what is described as "spontaneous altered states of consciousness consisting of particular sensory experience or thoughts." The second example which is given and which represents an attempt to define "intuition" is even more intriguing in that it not only claims to discount "supernatural" intervention but goes on to suggest a meaning which fundamentally contradicts the objective of The Warrior's Edge process, that is, of obtaining information which is not "already available" to the person, as in "remote vision" wherein human eyes do not have access to "data" with their visual field of perception.

What the authors recommend is to set aside one's beliefs and simply to use techniques which they teach and advocate at the student's discretion, which "discretion" is not founded on ethical or moral standards such as are enfranchised in the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights.

The objective of The Warrior's Edge training is to blank the mind for the purpose of having "external thoughts ... intrude." The authors do not argue that in the practice of telepathy, in which the thoughts of one person are conveyed to another or "read" by another, that the thoughts "perceived" do not originate from an "external source." The authors of The Warrior's Edge even report results of personal experiments giving evidence that thoughts can be transferred from one person to another, (pages 182 - 185, The Warrior's Edge). If the inference of the authors is that the "external thoughts {which} ... intrude" in their mind-emptying exercises are of internal origin, and not from an outside source, it does not form a convincing argument consistent with the body of information which they themselves present. The authors specifically refer to telepathy and psychokinesis and state, "All these phenomena involve using the mind and/or some "field" of the body to affect other minds and inanimate objects, sometimes at a distance, without the intervention of conventional mechanisms .... We will discuss the methods researchers are using to document these types of abilities and show how a person can, through training, acquire these skills." [page 11, The Warrior's Edge].

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/america_subversion6.htm

edelweiss pirate

21-04-2007, 04:39 PM

continued....

The two examples wherein "intuition" is defined (as quoted) as not associated with the supernatural apparently represent an attempt by the authors to disassociate spiritualism or the "supernatural" from shamanism, and recommend to the student to set aside belief systems. The authors attempt to describe their mind-blanking process for obtaining "intruding thoughts" with a word not traditionally associated by the public with spiritualism. However, in spiritistic circles the word "intuition" is associated with psychic, spirit guide, or spirit contact influence.

As the Encyclopedia Britanica's discussion on spiritualism relates, traditional spirit mediums have gone into a deep trance, but the spiritualist movement unfolded spirit mediums who receive spirit messages while in a partial trance, or while retaining some measure of "consciousness." Although there appears to be more than one level of an altered state of consciousness which spirit mediums employ, and in which connection authors such as those of The Warrior's Edge speak of "instantly" "accessing" an altered state of psychic powers at will after training, there are common denominators in training persons to make contact with spirit guides or spirit guide messages. Other than a séance, common methods of "spirit guide" contact involve consciously focusing or concentrating on one point or thought, or using hypnotic repetition to shut down or impair the person's thought processes. Thus the access by outside or intruding entities or spirits is facilitated. Dr. Richard Lawrence who establishes an unmistakable link between psychic powers and spirit guides alludes to what is meant by the term "intuitive information."

... in relation to psychic gazing.
...
In gazing, you should not enter any trance condition but remain alert and focused upon an apparent vacuum which is then filled by the psychic and intuitive information you need to give the reading.
p. 98 Unlock Your Psychic Powers: Mastering One's Psychic Potential,
Dr. Richard Lawrence, 1993, (by a "leading psychic practitioner")

Mediumistic states include deep trance states wherein the subject does not have any control of oneself or afterwards have a recollection of what transpired, as well as states wherein a person retains memory and consciousness. Blanking one's mind is a common denominator or common path. Focusing upon an apparent vacuum to be filled by psychic and intuitive information is what Dr. Richard Lawrence definitely links with spirit guides. This is a process of creating a partial mental vacuum. It is therefore very disturbing for Dr. Lawrence to advocate the acquisition of psychic powers and the spirit guides which he himself identifies as being therewith associated, when he himself describes the menacing dangers and vulnerability which even a "partial mental vacuum" can result in. He wrote, "... then a partial mental vacuum is left by you for an outside entity to occupy. Once this mental vacuum has been created, an overshadowing entity can use it exactly as it chooses." Corroborating the capacity of spirit guides to exert their own will upon others, Alice Bailey referred to "total Hierarchal impression by the time the disciple is a Master."

Dr. Lawrence further wrote,

In fact, some people deliberately blank their minds for the very reason that they wish to enter a trance over which they have no control so that they can be taken over by an outside entity or what they believe to be a god, ancestor or benign spirit.
p. 67 Unlock Your Psychic Powers: Mastering One's Psychic Potential,
Dr. Richard Lawrence, 1993, (by a "leading psychic practitioner")

The Warrior's Edge would have you believe that blanking your mind and receiving "intruding" thoughts is what your "intuition" is composed of. In Masonry, the word "intuition" is also used.

Masonry has survived the ages because in truth and fact we have been guided by inspiration and by intuition, by the Grand Lodge on High ...
p. 119 The Spirit of Masonry, Foster Bailey, 1957

The external role of the so-called "Grand Lodge on High" is the role of discarnate spirit entities. The external nature of what is called "intuition" by those advocating psychic powers is quite apparent. To portray intruding entities as one's own subconscious is similar to calling the spirit guides one's "inner self." That is, in fact, exactly what is also done, and it will be discussed in another context later in this book.

The idea of defending oneself by arriving at answers by emptying one's mind of thoughts, shutting down the process of analytical thinking, tearing down the walls of the mind to invite in "intruding thoughts" to give us answers, equates to the "Troy Defense." It is a way in which even advocates in the field of psychic powers describe a means by which a person can "be taken over by the communicating entity." Psychic authorities write of "other practices which involved blanking out the mind and with it part of the will. Some of these have become fully or partially possessed." Tearing down one's walls of the mind to permit access by unknown "wooden horses" with who knows what kinds of enemies inside comprises the "Troy Defense." The city was taken when it was at ease.

What is the career of the "psychic warrior" as the "psychic eye" opens, as the "point of contact between humans and Lucifer-consciousness" establishes itself ? It is a path in which discarnate entities "re-incarnate." It is a path toward complete possession. It is a path to avoid, to leave, not a path to follow.

Jesus Christ stated,

"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world,
and is himself destroyed or lost?"
Luke, 9:25, NKJV.
Jesus Christ expelled demons from the demon possessed, and raised the dead to life again. Jesus Christ teaches resurrection to life and has the power to fulfill it.

The term proposed in The Warrior's Edge for stilling or quieting the mind of thought processes and readying oneself for intruding thoughts to solve complex problems without analysis is "intuition." It is an invitation for entities in the spirit realm who are willing to participate in outrageous violations of human minds and bodies, whether of the practitioner or of targeted victims, it is an invitation to spirits who are involved in the "Great Work" of re-incarnating themselves through human vehicles.

-- Invasive "Technologies" --

The authors of The Warrior's Edge offer examples as verification that the invasive "technologies" which they teach are to be taken seriously, which contributes to their culpability. Consider the implications of applying such methods by civilians against civilians, the "warrior's edge."

Complications arose from remotely viewing a site at Semipalatinsk, a nuclear facility in Soviet Central Asia. The remote viewers described equipment that resembled the "accelerators and electron injectors" used in directed-energy experiments, hidden in an underground site. The remotely sensed information was rejected as not possible by the project sponsors. Several years later, Western intelligence sources learned the Soviets had the equipment described and were working beyond a level credited to them by the U.S. technical establishment. Again, the psychics were right.
p. 148 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Giving Luciferian entities access to impress thoughts or images into one's brain opens the door of one's mind to powerful manipulative forces. The person applying psychic, occult methods to invade the domains of others becomes a concentrated point of invasion himself. The person seeking to use occult, psychic forces to manipulate and control others has opened himself to manipulation and control. The person opening one's mind to psychic forces to exert his or her will upon another has opened up one's own mind acutely to such forces.

The "Trojan Horse Defense" is not the only technique taught in psychic training.

For now, we ask that you expand your belief system just enough to practice with these weapons we are offering and make them part of your arsenal, so that their use can become second nature and their competence can become your competence.
The result will be the warrior's edge.
p. 25 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The authors aren't only advocating devices. They are advocating "weapons," and encourage the reader to make their "weapons" part of one's "arsenal." The "warrior" reference by New Age channeler Benjamin Creme, the "Army of the Elect," and "warrior on the block" references by Manly P. Hall (33rd degree) and the reference to the "seething energies of Lucifer" all fit in with the Masonic, New Age, Illuminati warfare agenda. "Expanding your belief system just enough to practice with these weapons we are offering" involves more than simply believing that the weapons of their "arsenal" have the capability of working, but involves discarding ethical beliefs embodied in the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights. The "invasive" techniques which the authors specifically teach and which are augmented by associated psychic techniques put foreword by similar authors is fittingly characterized as an "arsenal" for "psychic warriors." The authors of The Warriors Edge use the expression "influence technologies," and speak of such "technologies" "Without the intervention of conventional mechanisms such as electronics or tools." Yet, the substance of the violations represented by the "technologies" promoted are no less in magnitude than those violations perpetrated with more commonly employed "technologies." "These ethical difficulties are not unlike those involved with the introduction of any other new, invasive technology." [The Warrior's Edge, p. 154]

In principle, the issue is not one of whether, let's say, electronics is used. The authors then point to the resolution of the "Ethical issues" to an "ad-hoc basis by practitioners." [The Warrior's Edge, p. 154]

The practices, the psychic weapons of manipulation and intrusion, of invasion, are fundamentally unethical, and to speak of "integrity" in the context of fundamentally unethical practices, particularly while promoting "ruthlessness" and "duplicity," does not hide the fact that the reader is being asked to adopt human rights violating techniques under cellophane camouflage. Manipulation is the name of the "psychic warrior" game.

All intelligence techniques require ruthlessness, duplicity, and absolute integrity. No, these are not contradictions in terms. If you are using influence technologies correctly, you can and will achieve your objective by the manipulation of others. If this manipulation is for the eventual benefit of these others as well as yourself, then you are adhering to the warrior ethic.
p. 216 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The "warrior ethic" is strangely framed as acting "for the eventual benefit" of "others as well as yourself." Definitely a formulation which should set off alarm bells when the authors speak of "ruthlessness, duplicity" and "the manipulation of others."
The domain of New Age psychic practices has a set of philosophical tenets which are quite alarming.
As one scrutinizes the New Age / Masonic principle for "psychic malpractice" and "psychic victimization" one finds that it blames the victim for successful victimization. (Chapter 9). The domain of psychic influence work includes Masonic Lodges. (Chapter 9).

The "manipulation of others" is promoted as a fundamental principle.

To begin on the path of influence, you must envision where you wish to go or what you need to accomplish. You then develop a plan, sketch a rational road map for its execution, and see it through to fruition.
Most of us are aware that we're subjected to the art of influence every day. Whether by the news media, Madison Avenue, domestic politicians, or international propagandists, the effects of these influences are visible, if not always clear. Hidden agendas, subterfuges, and ploys are part of the art. Influence technology is a serious and potentially deadly game.
p. 45 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

To emphasize, the techniques promoted for "psychic warriors" are not, fundamentally, the written word, as in the case of conventional media influence. The techniques include means of causing not only mental harm but physical harm including death. Fundamentally, the very means which "psychic warriors" use embodies the word "subterfuge."

We know these techniques work.
...
You can take advantage of your physiological connection with the ordering force of the universe to become strong, to shape your future, to gain your heart's desire.
What you will do is in no way predicated on what you can do. Unfortunately, we cannot stop you from using these techniques to oppress your fellow, to achieve selfish ends at the expense of your society and the biosphere, or to become the worst that you can be.
...
Given that some will make effective use of these techniques without having learned the good judgment that years of training and risk instill, you may need to defend yourself against such people.
p. 215 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

If a person "expands one's belief system" to adopt "ruthlessness" and "duplicity" as embodiments of "integrity," enough to make the outrageous human rights violating psychic powers "part of your arsenal" and to "practice with these weapons," it should come as no surprise that the student would "use these techniques to oppress your fellow" or "to achieve selfish ends at the expense of your society and the biosphere, or to become the worst that you can be." In fact, considering the degradation of moral, ethical standards therein represented, the "dirty work," the human violations of mind and body, it comes as no surprise that the reader of the book The Warrior's Edge is warned about persons who "make effective use of these techniques" in that "you may need to defend yourself against such people." It is not only "such people" whose "good judgment" is not molded by "risk" assessment that pose the danger, but it is such people whose judgment uses risk assessment, rather than human rights, as a fundamental guideline "against" whom "you may need to defend yourself."

To act effectively, the warrior must be able to expand beliefs to encompass new possibilities. By testing those possibilities personally, the warrior determines whether they offer an advantage--and if securing that advantage is worth the risk. The possibilities we use here to push reality's envelope are not risk free.
p. 198 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

It is not at all mitigating for the authors to characterize the persons against whom we need to defend ourselves as persons who "make effective use of these techniques" and who act as they do "without having learned the good judgment that years of training and risk instill." When "ruthlessness" and "duplicity" are portrayed as "integrity," and when "good judgment" is formed by years of training and risk, one is left with the impression that the "years of training" enable a person to more so "make effective use of these techniques" in that "you may need to defend yourself against such people," and that it does not put one at ease if the person against whom "you may need to defend yourself against" is deterred more by" risk" than by moral or ethical principle.

The guideline "if securing that advantage is worth the risk" is a morally devoid way of learning so-called "good judgment." The training subtly uses words such as "integrity," but when examined more closely it is ethically vacuous if not also fundamentally bankrupt.

Applications of remote viewing to industrial espionage are not unthinkable. If remote viewing were used during early research and development phases, the target company would be without even the hypothetical protection of patent application.
These ethical difficulties are not unlike those involved with the introduction of any other new, invasive technology. Ethical issues of remote viewing will be settled on an ad-hoc basis by practitioners, whether or not a consensus of behavior eventually evolves.
The majority of researchers in this field come to the conclusion that there is an interconnectedness among all things. This premise has major implications for our beliefs and behaviors. Proponents of this concept suggest that information--in the form of consciousness--is a common ingredient throughout the universe. This universal interconnectedness may be the vehicle that allows remote viewing to operate.
p. 154 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The "implications" for "beliefs and behaviors" in the "premise" work which psychics have been doing have already been established fundamentally, that is, the very means which they advocate and promote fundamentally represents egregious human rights violations. The "implications" are, rather, that behind-the-scenes violations of human rights, subverting the U.S. Constitution with "intrusive" "technology," are being promoted, not only from a base of secret societies, but by means of proliferation, or expanding recruitment, among the public. The essence of the ethical subversion and empty reference to "ethical difficulties" is most apparent from the following position.

When you choose to
p. 48
apply the lessons learned in this book, be sure you constantly perform environmental checks. It is in your own best interest to be aware of how much stress you place on those around you, especially superiors. Keep in mind their belief systems, and how they might accept your practices. We are not suggesting limits on your practice and application of skills, just judicious caution in how open you are with others.
p. 49 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

Clearly an ethically corrupt position. The rhetoric about "integrity" being compatible with "ruthlessness" and "duplicity" obtains a contextual framework with the foregoing revelation. What is the code of "honor," silence ? The philosophy doesn't get any better upon further examination.

"The majority of researchers in this field come to the conclusion that there is an interconnectedness among all things. This premise has major implications for our beliefs and behaviors. Proponents of this concept suggest that information--in the form of consciousness--is a common ingredient throughout the universe. This universal interconnectedness may be the vehicle that allows remote viewing to operate."
p. 154 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

There is an "interconnectedness" between computers on a network, but the major "implication" for "behavior" is not the theft of computer files or information. Your neighbor's property might be connected to yours, but does that premise carry with it the implication for a belief or behavior that your property may be trespassed by your neighbor's grazing animals or that your home may be invaded by your neighbor's relatives ? Light is a common ingredient throughout the universe, but does that give your neighbor a right set up a video camera in your livingroom to keep an eye on you ? When the authors state that "We are not suggesting limits on your practice and application of skills, just judicious caution in how open you are with others," it is no exaggeration for the authors to characterize their disciples as "psychic warriors."

The "technologies" of psychic "warriors" in America represent a flagrant assault on the U.S. Constitutional protections of the Fourth Amendment against personal invasion. The emphasis of the authors appears to be on "success" of "actions" based not upon meeting the behavioral standards of the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights, but of one's "own behavioral standard." Prisons are full of persons with their "own behavioral standard."

What do we mean by morality ? We mean your subjective and personal sense of right and wrong, developed in a context of cultural ethics. If you meet your own behavioral standard, your actions have a much greater chance of success, because the expectations of your reality map are consonant with your belief-system tree.
p. 110 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

It's amazing how close the quoted author's description is to the account in the book of Genesis of meeting one's "own behavioral standard" right down to the "belief-system tree" and Lucifer's "reality map" of deception and corruption. For that matter, The Warrior's Edge promotes "a context of cultural ethics" which is inconsonant with the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution.

The focus is on performance and one's "own behavioral standard." By adopting the "invasive" "technologies" or invasive "weapons" promoted by the authors, the behavioral standard respecting human rights is scuttled into an abyss, deferring to "risk" assessment. The "culture" which is developed by the authors is framed in terms of "warriors" who deploy "weapons" of a psychic "arsenal."

The books' most eloquent statement, which follows, is contravened by the preponderant force of the book's lessons on the whole.

We must caution you to influence with integrity. There is truth in the old saying "What goes around, comes around." We urge you to practice the art of influence with the best interest of all parties in mind. The warrior exerts his influence in keeping with a code of honor and an unassailable integrity above reproach. With these tools comes the responsibility for right action. Our purpose in providing you with advanced human technology techniques is to help enhance all human performance. Properly used, these techniques can have a positive impact on human interaction worldwide.
p. 52 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

The military is notorious for euphemistic descriptions which can make an all out Reign of Terror read like a tune-up manual. Any "Hidden agendas" imbedded in the language ? Does The Warrior's Edge serve as a part of the occult goal of influencing all humans to embrace the "Plan" of adopting psychic powers by dangling the bait to "enhance all human performance" ? Using psychic powers as a warrior to exert influence or to place pressure on others to get sucked into the New Age movement and psychic practices could result in what might be euphemistically described as enhancing "human performance." (by drafting all into psychic participation). Do not the application of "these techniques" "impact on human interaction worldwide" in a way "positive" in promoting the "psychic eye" for (1) - the practitioner, (2) - the "recruitment" of more "psychic warriors", and (3) - by the exertion of "influence" on the population in general in keeping with objectives of the "Hierarchy" to expand telepathic "interaction" such that increasing segments of the population establish the "point of contact between humans and Lucifer-consciousness" ?

[p. 197, Masonry: Beyond The Light, William Schnoebelen]

"Influence with integrity" is quite a statement considering what the standards are not, and considering what standards are trash-canned. But really, what kind of standing ovation can somebody get for using the word "honor" while trampling upon the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights ?

Having in mind clandestine techniques which psychics are taught, it is similar to recommending "integrity" in the use of slipping a drug into someone's drink and hypnotizing the person. "Ruthlessness," "duplicity," "unassailable integrity" ? Fundamentally, the techniques used violate the individual over whom the person exerts his will. Fundamentally, it is disconsonant to appear to take a high moral ground in proposing "integrity" when the very means used represent outrageous violations of the human mind and will, if not also of the human body.

"If you are using influence technologies correctly, you can and will achieve your objective by the manipulation of others." When the authors speak of the "warrior's" "arsenal of weapons" they are speaking of psychic weapons for "psychic warriors" which elucidates their positions that "The warrior must be able to consciously influence others ..." and in that connection even diplomacy is viewed as "a measured attempt to exert national will upon another." Chilling. The authors are speaking of psychic influence when speaking of "influence technologies" and the "manipulation of others." From the psychic warrior's viewpoint, the psychic capabilities are described as "All these phenomena involve using the mind and/or some "field" of the body to affect other minds and inanimate objects, sometimes at a distance, without the intervention of conventional mechanisms such as electronics or tools."

The authors take the position that "If this manipulation is for the eventual benefit of these others as well as yourself, then you are adhering to the warrior ethic." Would you say that if a person engages in drugging, hypnotizing, and kidnapping others "for the eventual benefit of these others as well as yourself, then you are adhering to the warrior ethic" ? If so, whose "warriors" ? The methods are comparable. Considering the ethical and philosophical abyss which people are invited or recruited into, it is not reassuring for such psychic warriors to be making decisions about manipulating and influencing others clandestinely with "psychic" forces for someone else's "eventual benefit" as well as for their own benefit. The body of information available shows that world-wide initiation into the occult, or Luciferian consciousness is an occult plan. There are those who might argue that they are influencing persons in that direction for their own "benefit," but eventually having discarnate entities re-incarnate themselves in one's own human body is no one's right to seek to impose onto anyone.

The ultimate standard for the "psychic" "warrior on the block" who "applies the seething energies of Lucifer," is Lucifer. That is usually something a person doesn't find out until later, as the testimony has shown. The god of Masonry, Lucifer, who supplies oaths to conceal murder and treason provides the philosophical and operative context for the New Age agenda.

The recruits for "psychic warriors" are not simply asked to subvert the U.S. Constitution by themselves. They are given examples to reinforce their criminal actions.

To repeat,

In the following chapters, we will unroll a reality map that includes telepathy, psychokinesis, and manipulation of time by the human mind. To perform extraordinary acts, some warriors need only faith. Others need to know that what they are doing is behavior accepted by authorities they respect.
{this is followed by 4 models of psi}
...

No one knows which, if any, of these models is the correct one. No one knows for certain how consciousness interacts with the phenomenal world.
p. 111 The Warrior's Edge,
Colonel John B. Alexander, Major Richard Groller, Janet Morris, 1990

What or whom do the authors mean by "authorities" ? Authorities or experts in "psychic warfare" ? The preponderant lessons of The Warrior's Edge can hardly be spoken of as consonant with the military establishment's sworn duty to uphold the Constitution. Yet, The Warrior's Edge was co-authored by a Colonel (John Alexander) who "evolved from hard-core mercenary to thanatologist" (expert in causing death), who "studied meditation in Buddhist monasteries ..." "He was chief of the Advanced Human Technology Office, U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command; and director, Advanced Systems Concepts Office, U.S. Army Laboratory Command." Another co-author, a Major (Richard Groller) , "exemplifies the modern-day techno-shaman. A military intelligence officer in the U.S. Army for over eleven years, ... a mathematician, MBA, and systems engineer. On active duty, he served in a variety of high-tech, R&D, and operational assignments on the staffs of the Directorate of Intelligence, U.S. Forces Command, the 7th Infantry Division, and the U.S. Army Intelligence School." The third author (Janet Morris) was "Elected to the New York Academy of Sciences in 1980, she is affiliate with the National Intelligence Study Center. ... She was initiated into the Japanese art of bioenergetics, joh re, the Indonesian brotherhood of Subud, and graduated from the Silva course in advanced mind control. She has been doing remote viewing for fifteen years." [The Warrior's Edge, pps. 14, 15]

As this book goes on to show, encompassing the techniques which are advocated in The Warrior's Edge and similar books teaching and advocating psychic powers, the "belief systems" which are "set aside" are fundamentally those of the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights and those of the Judeo-Christian ethic.

anoninnyc

21-04-2007, 05:39 PM

i think norseman makes some valid points, but the sweeping generalisations are a bit insulting, we all do what we can, or rather we should, the clock is ticking, time is running out and there is the danger of just hanging around forums talking about it, but from what i can gather, most of us are doing something, i mean not everyone is going to form a movement, but i think that baby steps is also a way, speaking to at least one person at a time is as valid as writing a book, starting a protest etc etc
we all have our own ways of doing this stuff, but i think that we must not become complacent, reptiles or not, there is some serious shit going on, remember, 'evil happens when good men do nothing.'

i very much agree with this statement. however, the person who started this thread does not know me personally and does not know what groups i am involved with. i do participate in charity work aimed at certain aspects of the nwo (though these groups just think they are fighting certain evils, not realizing it is all linked up together).... i will not go into details of which groups i am involved in, etc. bc this website is a wonderful forum for me to chill out and talk w like minded individuals without identifying myself. i love the anonymity of it. of course the mods probably know who i am, but i dont care about that, it is not like i am famous, just dont want anyone else to know who i am.

i also feel that even my day to day activities, i help. like smiling at the grocery clerk. or helping an elderly person. just by adding little bits of positivity into the world i am helping to fight the nwo, by increasing the positives.

i also try to wake people up when i can, but i dont shuv anything down anyones throats, that would be counterproductive.

i very much appreciate that i do have this forum as a refuge and a place to discuss with like minded individuals. and i dont think it is preaching to the choir. i am not preaching on here, i am sharing info in a situation where my energy will not be drained in defending myself. it is also a great place to come to educate myself or at least let me know what issues are going on, so i can research further. i think that is really the purpose of this websites forum, so we dont feel alone in our thoughts, and we can learn more w minimal energy wasted. it leaves me w much more so that i can go out there in the "real world" and do my part in changing things.

Anders Lindman

21-04-2007, 05:57 PM

How many of you actively try and educate people out there ie through leaflets, intellectual groups or even public speaking?

Internet is a form of public speaking. Spreading information and ideas through the Web is very efficient. Leaflets and public speaking feels a bit outdated.

the norseman

21-04-2007, 06:34 PM

"In the first place, Norseman asked us to not spend time around here.Stay blind gang !Walk alone! Is it what you are asking us brother?"

Yinon, I did not say do not spend time around here - please go back and read my threads again. What I did say was that here is not enough. What Llogen suggested is an excellent idea. A global gathering could be formed or even a country wide one. It can be a peaceful movement where groups of like minded individuals could meet and discuss the various topics of importance and make a real effort to diseminate the material through means of newsletters, speakers (Mr Icke speaks often) and even documentaries - if resources are pooled and used for the common aim which is education then we could first form a snowball and then an avalanche.

People who have an interest in one particular area ie Esoteric, banking, politics etc could "specialise" for the good of the community. Look at the various 9/11 groups. Momentum is gaining there due to like minded people who can see through the crap forming a coherent group. They are not just posting in forums, they are speaking, lobbying and distributing material that is backed by evidence and facts to people and in terms that "normal" people can understand. More and more people are becoming aware of the 9/11 anomolies everyday and there is no reason for this to not be the case for the biggest truths of all.

Anders thanks for joining the discussion - I am aware internet is a form of public speaking and yes it is very effective at diseminating information but I do not think it is the best. The anonymity of the net builds barriers as does the bad press that the net gets ie "dont believe everything you read on the internet" etc

Public speaking is by no means old fashioned and it allows more articulation in the information you are conveying. Public speaking is one of the best mediums to educate, cause debate.

Trust me and I am not scaremongering but thought crime is already in existance ie holocaust denial / questioning (my believes on this subject is irrelevant) etc - the internet could well be a different place in years to come - if the net was switched off tomorrow - what would we do? What would happen? We would all just be a individuals scattered around the globe with no power. Now what if we actually formed a real community a global effort if you like where educating people and meeting and debating and actually being proactive? what could we achieve then? Think about this.

Emma Royds, I did not say I did not like the atmosphere on here - what I was / am refering to is the apothetic nature of the many people around these forums who are happy to just to talk about it all day to like minded people and do nothing more. If you or anyone else is doing more etc and granted I do not know most of you then please share what you are doing so we can gain ideas. If we all pull in the same direction at the same time who knows what we can achieve.

My original post may have had an aggressive tone and I apologise for that but I did want a response as well as to make people think and I think I achieved that.

adramelech

21-04-2007, 07:01 PM

"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy beleive we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near."

"Do not depend on the enemy not coming, but depend on our readiness against him. Do not depend on the enemy not attacking, but depend on our position that cannot be attacked."

"In ancient times, those skilled in warfare make themselves invincible and then wait for the enemy to become vulnerable. Being invincible depends on oneself, but the enemy becoming vulnerable depends on himself. Therefore, those skilled in warfare can make themselves invincible, but cannot necessarily cause the enemy to be vulnerable. Therefore it is said one may know how to win but cannot necessarily do it."

"If you know others and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know others but know yourself, you win one and lose one; if you do not know others and do not know yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

"The more you read and learn, the less your adversary will know. Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory."

"If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected."

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Anders Lindman

21-04-2007, 07:11 PM

I am aware internet is a form of public speaking and yes it is very effective at diseminating information but I do not think it is the best. The anonymity of the net builds barriers as does the bad press that the net gets ie "dont believe everything you read on the internet" etc

On the Web we often tend to believe the information given by mainstream media more than grassroot information. The Web is still very young and one of the next steps could be that some kind of hybrids between mainstream and grassroot media begin to emerge. That would be interesting. The Web is not the only way of spreading information, but it has great potential and is already a massive and super-efficient information machine.

cleft_asunder

21-04-2007, 07:33 PM

Ok Norseman, I see what you are, I will take your bait no more.

I pity you and hope life takes a turn for the better for you, you sure need it. :)

Oh my God, you people are such fragile sissies. Instead of focusing on the mans good points, you focus on how offended you were because he raised a stir. How is that different from the sleeping masses who want racial indifference? (i.e. ban everything that's offensive or "racial")
I see no reason why he has to apologize for his tones.

And Cuckoo, your ability to identify a troll from a genuine poster is in it's infant stage. I recommend you don't do it anymore.

cleft_asunder

21-04-2007, 07:52 PM

This is my first post here.

I just have to say that most of you on here and the old icke forum are full of crap.

You come to places like this and complain and pretend you have more insight than others and say how you wish the sheeple would wake up but yet you all really do NOTHING!!!

How many of you actively try and educate people out there ie through leaflets, intellectual groups or even public speaking? None of you. No one has formed a group or any form mechanism to educate THE MASSES - when I was in London last I did not see anyone on Hyde Park Corner sounding off about what is really going on.

Many of you claim to try and convince others of what is going on but just sounding off to your mum or spouse as they struggle to watch Eastenders does not count!!!

Guys, I am not trying to get anyones backs up but please sit back and take a good long look at what I have said.

In the UK alone Mr Blair stands to sell you all down the river by signing an EU constitution (but it is not the constitution if you ask him!!) and thus politically entrenching the entire UK into a prerequisite European Superstate but HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING OR STAND UP TO BE COUNTED??? None!!!! That is but one example where NO ONE stands up to be counted -NONE OF YOU!!!

Food for thought - think it over and lets discuss matters properly and before anyone says "well what have you done!!!" well, I have made you think over and above simply logging on the net and making a career out of complaining anonomously to like minded individuals - preaching to the converted is a waste of time!!!

The Norseman.

Ps English is not my first language. Icelandic is.

Hi norseman. I'm going to address your points quickly here, because they are valid, however ultimately you are missing a big piece of the puzzle.

That piece is that the Illuminati have been in power since Lumeria and Atlantis, and at least from Sumer. That's a lot of time, and the fact of the matter is that we were powerless throughout that time, and we are powerless now. I'm sure there were many people throughout history that knew of this demonic plan. They knew who really controlled the world, but what could they do? And before you say "they should have sounded off and destroyed the controllers," I'm sorry but that's wishful thinking.

The point is that this power is really really great, and nothing short of an act of God is going to stop it. nothing short of this has worked in the past, and it won't now. I know that's not what you want to hear but the fact of the matter is that the conspiracy is persistent, and that is proof in itself that we can't defeat it alone.

roxanna222

21-04-2007, 07:57 PM

Firstly, I'd like to ask you to soften your tone a little when making posts here. There are many good people on this forum who would take strong objection to your telling them they are "full of crap"! And rightly so! This is bad manners in anyone's language, and is not the best way to approach a group of people with the intention of starting a worthwhile debate.

Why do we all have to be excrutiatingly polite on here all the time?? Its like a "political correctness" we cant ever voice out and express anger or hurt or other such "non acceptable" emotions. Im mean jeeeeeeeeeeeeees. I personally was not in the least bit offended by Norsemans post. Why is everyone so bleeding sensitive these days? Anyway, he was in my "humble" opinion just using that phrase to catch the attention to his post in which he elaborated on his frustrations and if he feels that way then its his right. Why should any take offence to that? Also in the course of his post he makes it clear he does not wish to get anyone's back up. Seemed sincere enough to me. What he recieved in return were attacts. Cheers No place for eggshells here on the forum in my opinon far more important things to discuss.

thedame

21-04-2007, 08:10 PM

On the contrary, I thought Norseman was quite aggressive and battling in his tone. I see your point, roxanna, but given the nature of the subject I think being told what you are and what you aren't doing by someone you don't know is actually a tad annoying. However, he's apologised for his tone so no harm done.

On another note, I see this thread is splitting in two... yinon why not start a thread relating to the ritalin conspiracy in the medical section? That means when edl. pirate wants to quote 25 pages from a book it will be relevant! :p

good stuff,
thedame

the norseman

21-04-2007, 08:11 PM

Cleft Asunder,

Thanks for actually reading what I wrote and I agree 100% with you. I noticed that those that spoke negatively about my points did not tackle the points in question but rather went on about my tone as it were.

I did not even bother responding to Midwich's comments as sadly he/she had zero points to make and offered nothing to the debate.

Cleft you are right, there is no difference. It is funny we often read and see in political spheres what happens when someone dares to step forward and say what we are all really thinking - if their points are relevent the points are never addressed but they are attacked personally ie what they wear, how they present themselves, their past believes or actions, in fact anything that draws attention away from the real issues. Midwich with comments like those slots himself / herself into the category.

There does appear to be far to many fragile egos on here - people are far to happy in their comfort zone. For most people outside of these forums / believes their comfort zone is the pub, football, TV and or Beer, you try and explain certain things and they dont care or do deep down but prefer to bury their heads in the sand. For many here, the comfort zone is ultimately doing nothing to bring about change and to me this worse because they know what is happening but apathy and fear even in these circles is still rife but it neednt be so.

People need to be educated by us - it is our duty - it has to be done in a way that people can understand and relate to. Groups of like minded individuals who actually want to achieve something for mankind and this planet should form and start standing up to be counted.

Days as we know it may well be numbered now and the further along we let things go the harder it will be to reverse.

Many are upset and took issue with what I said because deep down they know it is true. I stand by my points but I could have been a little less harsh though with hindsight.

edelweiss pirate

21-04-2007, 08:24 PM

On another note, I see this thread is splitting in two... yinon why not start a thread relating to the ritalin conspiracy in the medical section? That means when edl. pirate wants to quote 25 pages from a book it will be relevant! :p

good stuff,
thedame

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4036/dastardlygi6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And I hope you've read every single one.... I'll be hijacking this thread with a test on it, later on...

i am all i am

21-04-2007, 08:26 PM

I posted this earlier and wondered if you had a reply Norseman ???

What if I told you that the vibration of the whole planet could be raised through the use of music ???

Lumukanda posted this...... http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...ed=1#post31877

Music is one way, there are many others that I would incorporate, and all of the varying ways can be used to continue to raise the vibration of the planet.

MY WORDS

MY WORDS ARE EXPRESSED,
WITH REASON AND RHYME,
A LOVE THAT'S CONFESSED,
THROUGH RYTHYM AND TIME.

MY WORDS ARE A GIFT,
A TRUTH THAT IS ME,
WITH A MESSAGE TO UPLIFT,
FOR ALL ETERNALLY.

MY WORDS ARE ALWAYS CLEAR,
WHETHER YOU LISTEN OR NOT,
THEY SHOW MY MIND HERE,
THE ONE THAT LOVE BEGOT.

MY WORDS I CONFIDE,
ARE ALL WRITTEN FOR ME,
FOR THE JOY I FOUND INSIDE,
HAS SET MY LOVE FREE.

"I do not have all the answers and never will."

I believe that you will realise that you are both the answer and the question, for all is one.

With LOVE.

P.S. - I have one belief, "ALL IS POSSIBLE".

the norseman

21-04-2007, 08:33 PM

Cleft Asunder,

I just read your other post and I am 100% familiar with how far back the control grid extends. Just to put you in the picture of where I am coming from, I started on my research into these topics because I have a deep interest in language etc I like to study on protolanguage and origins of words etc and that lead me to the study of Sumer and the Annunaki and from that on we go.

Now obviously the control grid goes back to before our fabricated history but I do believe you are wrong when you say "and the fact of the matter is that we were powerless throughout that time, and we are powerless now. I'm sure there were many people throughout history that knew of this demonic plan. They knew who really controlled the world, but what could they do? And before you say "they should have sounded off and destroyed the controllers," I'm sorry but that's wishful thinking"

We are not powerless now, the plan may be coming to fruition for the powers that be but I am certain that the information media is greater these days. The internet is a wonderful tool - look here alone how many people there are from all over this planet - the information sharing today is unsurpassed in all of history as we know it and that is the ultimate power hence mainstream media being controlled and the attacks on the freedom of information on the net. What we need and one of my core points is collective guided effort. Change will not happen over night but at the very least we can buy time for things to gain momentum.

In days gone by many / most of the common folk could not even read - they had no idea of what was going on outside of their town let alone on a global / international scale - most days were taken up with struggle to feed your family. They were then given a good dose of misinterpreted bullshit from the papacy on a Sunday to make sure authority was never questioned. Those days at least in the countries in the information age have passed somewhat hence us being here. Information can be sent around the world in seconds BUT the net is not enough as I have said ad nausium in my earlier posts.

What now is the problem is pulling people away from mindless entertainment and awakening them from their apathetic sleep. My harsh language / tone at the beginning may have offended some people but it did awaken many to take part in this discussion which I believe is highly important.

The Norseman.

amadeus

21-04-2007, 09:13 PM

Greetings,

I personally believe in the power of collective awareness. *Doing* things is one way, *Being* is another. We are all one, and we are connected. Do not underestimate the power of the unseen.

If you want to do more concrete actions, affecting people in this way,that's ok with me.That is your way of doing things. I think all possible "tactics" are needed in this battle. You of course have the right not to believe in the power of the awareness, LOA etc. But shame on you if you think that everybody should do things your way.

'Est proprium stultitiae aliorum vitia cernere, oblivisci suorum.'

-amadeus-

december

21-04-2007, 10:03 PM

This is my first post here.

I just have to say that most of you on here and the old icke forum are full of crap.

You come to places like this and complain and pretend you have more insight than others and say how you wish the sheeple would wake up but yet you all really do NOTHING!!!

How many of you actively try and educate people out there ie through leaflets, intellectual groups or even public speaking? None of you. No one has formed a group or any form mechanism to educate THE MASSES - when I was in London last I did not see anyone on Hyde Park Corner sounding off about what is really going on.

Many of you claim to try and convince others of what is going on but just sounding off to your mum or spouse as they struggle to watch Eastenders does not count!!!

Guys, I am not trying to get anyones backs up but please sit back and take a good long look at what I have said.

In the UK alone Mr Blair stands to sell you all down the river by signing an EU constitution (but it is not the constitution if you ask him!!) and thus politically entrenching the entire UK into a prerequisite European Superstate but HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING OR STAND UP TO BE COUNTED??? None!!!! That is but one example where NO ONE stands up to be counted -NONE OF YOU!!!

Food for thought - think it over and lets discuss matters properly and before anyone says "well what have you done!!!" well, I have made you think over and above simply logging on the net and making a career out of complaining anonomously to like minded individuals - preaching to the converted is a waste of time!!!

The Norseman.

Ps English is not my first language. Icelandic is.

I agree with you. The other forum www.davidickeforum.com proved that -

1 - David Icke is NOT serious about the subject;

2 - The followers of David Icke and those who run the forum are NOT looking for the solutions;

3 - It looks like that the goal is to convince people that the so-called Illuminati really control everything...

Also....

What interesting is that when I express this opinion the "INFINITE LOVE"... disappears :D and Icke followers become rude and violent and I am attacked for saying that...

I wonder why?

:cool:

cheeb

21-04-2007, 10:30 PM

Hi norseman. I'm going to address your points quickly here, because they are valid, however ultimately you are missing a big piece of the puzzle.

That piece is that the Illuminati have been in power since Lumeria and Atlantis, and at least from Sumer. That's a lot of time, and the fact of the matter is that we were powerless throughout that time, and we are powerless now. I'm sure there were many people throughout history that knew of this demonic plan. They knew who really controlled the world, but what could they do? And before you say "they should have sounded off and destroyed the controllers," I'm sorry but that's wishful thinking.

The point is that this power is really really great, and nothing short of an act of God is going to stop it. nothing short of this has worked in the past, and it won't now. I know that's not what you want to hear but the fact of the matter is that the conspiracy is persistent, and that is proof in itself that we can't defeat it alone.

I find your beleifs in Atlantis and Lemuria to be naive
You toss it into a sentence as if it is fact
Atlantis was only mentioned once in Platos dialogues as a mythical place
every other reference to it is derived from this

I beleive what Plato was referring to was the very real catastrophe of the valcano erupting on Thera [Sontorini] in the Aegean sea some 1600 yrs bc

This catastrophe may have something to do with the biblical story of Moses '
the plagues ,fire and hoal from the sky and the tsunami like effects of the parting of the reed sea

It is touched upon by Velivoski?Worlds in Cillision but this is speculation rather than fact,the dates do roughly match

and this isnt based solely on books ,i went to the Cycladic Islands for 3 months to study mythology in the field as it were (and to get pissed on retsina in the bacchanallic landscaped of the pellopenese

the caldera of sontorini is one of the most amazing places i have come across'
in scale comparable to the grand canyon,i spect

lemuria is another fiction,no basis in fact
It was a made up continent placed somewhere between Africa and India
as a hypothetic structure to show why the flora and fauna were similar or summat to do with the midpoint size of African and Indian elephants ear sizes
oh! there you go a white elephant

I was under the impression that the illuminati were founded in 1776 ,on mayday, in Inglostadt , Bavaria by a fellow named adam Weishaupt (George Washington)

So couldnt possibly go back to Platos hypothetic utopia (Platos Republic)

Or forewards to a 19th centurys construct(Lemuria) to explain earthquakes and evolution

yes the illuminatis/NWO/globallists might be/are pernicious ,but as from this analogy of Atlantis demonstrates all empires ,including this one we are currently in ,will fall

usually when they become decadent and narcisstic(like this one is0

maybe it doesnt hurt to give them a bit of a shove to help them on their way

the norseman

21-04-2007, 10:35 PM

Amadeus,

"Being" could well be one way but there are far too many people "being" which is not getting anyone anywhere. Just think from a different angle for a moment - if "being" was a solution then we would not have more and more erosion to liberties and social decay almost everyday. Another point is there are far too many people "being" in the opposite to your / our thoughts on these subjects and if this "being" is the solution then you are severly outweighed I am afraid.

I do agree that all possible tactics are required but where would be if everyone was just "being" ? And on the other side where would be if everyone took a proactive coherent considered collective action? I think you can answer that.

"But shame on you if you think that everybody should do things your way" - I do not think that everyone should do things my way - if that were the case then I would be advocating changing one control system for another. I am not infallable and not without fault and would not wish myself in that manner on anybody. But I do believe that many people have been sitting on the fence "being" for too long among these groups. I wanted to provide an impetus to get people to realise that we have been coming to places like this for years but nothing has been achieved - as I said preaching to the converted is a waste of time.

Obviously this place is fantastic to come and discuss topics etc but we have to go beyond that if we really want to change.

I think many people here are like battered wifes who refuse to leave their husbands - it is almost like they love being the victim and complaining within their closed circles but never really doing anything to improve their predicament or that of those around them.

Food for thought.

The Norseman.

i am all i am

21-04-2007, 10:46 PM

Be the change that you want to see in the world.
Mohandas Gandhi.

G'day Norseman.

Does the absence of a reply to my post mean that you are not going to reply ???

With LOVE.

i_am

21-04-2007, 10:49 PM

Be the change that you want to see in the world.
Mohandas Gandhi.

G'day Norseman.

Does the absence of a reply to my post mean that you are not going to reply ???

With LOVE.

Hahahaha! Don't feel left out. I was ignored too :D

the norseman

21-04-2007, 10:54 PM

I am all I am, to address your point. I do not know. The link was an interesting read. There are a lot more within the human capabilities then we know about that is for sure.

Now to follow onto the point about the earths vibration - if we link to what I have read about Ley Lines and I am no expert on this matter, then it seems to me that the worlds energy system (if you believe in these things) could have been altered beyond previous recognition or even almost shut down.

We know in days gone by that religious sites were carefully chosen as were neolithic sites based on specific parameters that many people believe would have an affect on the planet - we also know that many of these sites have been destroyed and or altered by the powers that be ie the site of the vatican, the site of St Pauls in London, Temple mount etc to name but a few. We also have an indication that satanic rituals take place on these ancient sites again possibly having an effect (if you believe in this subject - my believes are irrelevent).

How do you know that changing the vibration of the earths grid through say music is of benefit? especially due to the fact the the vibration grid may well have been altered due to what is mentioned above? Sure it may sound nice but.......

We do know that a group of people passionate about an outcome can make change though and I believe our energies are best used in this endevour.

Also, these subjects do nothing to further the education of the masses but actually harm it in my opinion as many would think it "way too out there" - again as I was saying earlier people have to be educated within the confines of their knowledge and understanding.

I am not taking anything away from you, again, like I said, if a group of people could be formed throughout the globe then people could well specialise in certain areas ie politics, religion and this subject - but our energies and resources should be pooled to get things moving.

The Norseman.

the norseman

21-04-2007, 10:59 PM

"I am", you were not ignored but I have addressed your points in my responses to others and do not want to keep repeating myself.

Have another read through my posts in their entirety and read through your post along side and you will see that your points have been addressed a number of times.

The Norseman.

december

21-04-2007, 11:16 PM

I think that David Icke followers are some kind of neo-hippies.
The Illuminati story is their world of illusion and they want to remain there and don't want to be disturbed.

If they start looking for the solutions then their illusion world will begin to disappear... :)
So they don't... :)

And the David Icke books is their new "Alice in Wonderland".

http://www.goddesswithin.com.au/catalog/images/Alice_in_Wonderland.jpg

amadeus

21-04-2007, 11:35 PM

Amadeus,

I do agree that all possible tactics are required but where would be if everyone was just "being" ? And on the other side where would be if everyone took a proactive coherent considered collective action? I think you can answer that

The Norseman.

You certainly make a big effort to present *your* way of thinking. So here's some more thoughts of *my* way of looking at things:

I think you answered the question above your self. If everybody would be "being", or let say aware of *who they really are*, then there wouldn't be no psychopaths, no murderers, no wars. It just seems that this type of thinking is impossible for you to comprehend, because you're a man of action.

Ok, let us ask everyone here: How many of you have been awakened to these truths presented here because of a proactive coherent considered collective action?

I myself started the "awakening process" when a inner urge awoke in me to want to know more. And this urge started to attract things like books that i just happened to stumble upon, like persons(who did not seek me up in anyway) and suddenly i started to just KNOW what i wanted to know and where to find it. And the internet and forums like this have been a great asset!

It would really amaze me if I was the only one who had this experience? By the way, what started your process of searching for the truth? Did somebody hand you a phamplet? :)

-amadeus-

i am all i am

21-04-2007, 11:48 PM

I am all I am, to address your point. I do not know................................
The Norseman.

G'day Norseman.

Music heals through vaibration at a cellular level. I know this through experience. It is unnecessary to tailor it to anyone's understanding or knowledge. The vibration of the music creates an effect through resonance with all physical structures. Sympathetic resonance bypasses individual 'blockages', or misunderstandings, raising the vibration of each cell of the physical body.

Here is some information that may help you to understand.....

the secret power of the word thread.....
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3002

Two books that I higly recommend.....
Sacred sounds - Ted Andrews.
The Secret Power of Music - David Tame.

http://music-cog.ohio-state.edu/Resources/learn.more.html

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...63546112866411

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=Cymatics

This site was posted by Phoenix1.......
http://www.firethegrid.com/eng/home-fr-eng.htm

Are you interested in helping to heal the world through music with myself and a few other people ???

With LOVE.

lemonique

21-04-2007, 11:50 PM

You certainly make a big effort to present *your* way of thinking. So here's some more thoughts of *my* way of looking at things:

I think you answered the question above your self. If everybody would be "being", or let say aware of *who they really are*, then there wouldn't be no psychopaths, no murderers, no wars. It just seems that this type of thinking is impossible for you to comprehend, because you're a man of action.

Ok, let us ask everyone here: How many of you have been awakened to these truths presented here because of a proactive coherent considered collective action?

I myself started the "awakening process" when a inner urge awoke in me to want to know more. And this urge started to attract things like books that i just happened to stumble upon, like persons(who did not seek me up in anyway) and suddenly i started to just KNOW what i wanted to know and where to find it. And the internet and forums like this have been a great asset!

It would really amaze me if I was the only one who had this experience? By the way, what started your process of searching for the truth? Did somebody hand you a phamplet? :)

-amadeus-

Hi Amadeus, I too started 'the inner journey' by thinking deeply about things and 'being led to certain books to buy and borrow'.
Forums like this one are an important tool for people to learn about, and assimilate the things we discuss. As Norseman points out, there are not too many people awake yet to discuss things with, and at least here, we can do that. Very important!
The world needs warriors and 'doers', but from where I am sitting, the warrior aspect (re wars, sects etc) haven't in the past achieved much except more of the same. If I go hit someone the likelyhood of them hitting back is extremely high. There IS another way. This forum is attracting a large number of spiritually and mentally strong, yet gentle people who have much to contribute in educating others as to what is really happening in our world.
May it continue for a long time.
Lemonique (with love)

lookfar

21-04-2007, 11:57 PM

G'day Norseman.

Music heals through vaibration at a cellular level. I know this through experience. It is unnecessary to tailor it to anyone's understanding or knowledge. The vibration of the music creates an effect through resonance with all physical structures. Sympathetic resonance bypasses individual 'blockages', or misunderstandings, raising the vibration of each cell of the physical body.

Here is some information that may help you to understand.....

the secret power of the word thread.....
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3002

Two books that I higly recommend.....
Sacred sounds - Ted Andrews.
The Secret Power of Music - David Tame.

http://music-cog.ohio-state.edu/Resources/learn.more.html

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...63546112866411

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=Cymatics

This site was posted by Phoenix1.......
http://www.firethegrid.com/eng/home-fr-eng.htm

Are you interested in helping to heal the world through music with myself and a few other people ???

With LOVE.

G'day iaaia :)

Nice post, thanks for the links & books, I'll add em to my Amazon list :)

I'm also really interested in the music & vibration stuff, I've been reading things lately that have led to it & I'm intrigued to learn more...

Am definitely up for the Fire the Grid event too & can't wait!! The music by Anael from there is excellent stuff (got it on now actually:) ), I've gotta get myself some of the cd's.

the norseman

22-04-2007, 12:04 AM

Where to begin.

I do make a big effort to present my way of thinking because I can not present anyone elses as I am not them.

As to the statement: "Ok, let us ask everyone here: How many of you have been awakened to these truths presented here because of a proactive coherent considered collective action?"

I am talking about educating the masses - we have already up to a point dared to break the mold but we are in a sever minority, I am sure you can see that. You make the point that you could locate information when you were awakened and I would hazard a guess that a lot of that involved the internet - have a read of the headlines section on this website and you will see that in all possibility this information may not be available freely as it is today. Have a read of this as I would like to discuss that further with you - but suffice to say that the time to allow people to wake themselves may have been and gone.

It is far from impossible for me to comprehend - and I do understand your points - I would like to agree with them but it is bullshit to think everyone will suddenly feel the urge that you felt to start seeking answers - why you are waiting for this (I assume you are UK based) - your health minister is calling for chipping of the elderly, you can be randomly fingerprinted at the roadside having commited NO offence, 1000 will die in the middle east for profit to name but a few. People are too dosed up on a manufactured food supply and a wealth of brain rot entertainment to feel these urges. Again, I am sure that you can see that hence IN MY OPINION for a collective effort on our part.

"It would really amaze me if I was the only one who had this experience? By the way, what started your process of searching for the truth? Did somebody hand you a phamplet?" This statement shows you have not read my posts in their entirety but yet you want to discuss my points? Please go back and read them, your question is answered in them.

"If everybody would be "being", or let say aware of *who they really are*, then there wouldn't be no psychopaths, no murderers, no wars" -This statement is somewhat contradictory on your part, everybody can only be "being" if they are educated - they obviously have not felt the awakening urge that you did or they would not be murdering and again why you wait for their awakening how many more have to die? But maybe if they were presented with proper information they may well begin to see the light - you get my point - Again, the masses, not you, me or other so called truth seekers may not feel an urge to research and many do not even know anything is afoot UNLESS they are educated as such.

December, I would have to agree in part as I said earlier alot of this is about "comfort zones" even in this sphere and many do not want to address the issues I have raised hence some of the hostility I have encountered (not by you amadeus and many others, disagreeing with my point of view is not hostility and I was not refering to this, if the disagreement is based on a considered response to the points raised).

The Norseman.

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 12:07 AM

G'day iaaia :)

Nice post, thanks for the links & books, I'll add em to my Amazon list :)

I'm also really interested in the music & vibration stuff, I've been reading things lately that have led to it & I'm intrigued to learn more...

Am definitely up for the Fire the Grid event too & can't wait!! The music by Anael from there is excellent stuff (got it on now actually:) ), I've gotta get myself some of the cd's.

You are welcome gorgeous.

The books are a great resource to have handy. I just lent Sacred Sounds to Oneofmany and a friend, Raphael, that I write music with, has the other.

Maybe if we come up with the correct vibration in a song it will liberate you to do the I AM ME.... photo. Hehehehe....I haven't forgotten about that.

This is a site that you may find very intersting as well Lookfar....
http://www.pakhomov.com/cryptogram.html

With LOVE.

lookfar

22-04-2007, 12:26 AM

You are welcome gorgeous.

The books are a great resource to have handy. I just lent Sacred Sounds to Oneofmany and a friend, Raphael, that I write music with, has the other.

Maybe if we come up with the correct vibration in a song it will liberate you to do the I AM ME.... photo. Hehehehe....I haven't forgotten about that.

This is a site that you may find very intersting as well Lookfar....
http://www.pakhomov.com/cryptogram.html

With LOVE.

Thanks honey, that looks like a great site which I'll check out more fully for sure :)

Hehe yeah go for it, I'd love to hear some :) I need something to liberate me for that pic, as it seems to be getting closer!! :eek: ;) :)

Love watching the cymantics stuff with all the sacred geometry, just proves even more that it's all connected.

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 12:42 AM

Thanks honey, that looks like a great site which I'll check out more fully for sure :)

Hehe yeah go for it, I'd love to hear some :) I need something to liberate me for that pic, as it seems to be getting closer!! :eek: ;) :)

Love watching the cymantics stuff with all the sacred geometry, just proves even more that it's all connected.

G'day sunshine.

Oneofmany has offered to help Raphael and myself to record the songs that we have written, so, when we have the first CD recorded I'll send you a copy. If you would love to pick out a poem we could record it for you as a swap for the I AM ME.... photo (having a go at a new angle here..hehehe).

I posted a few of the pictures of the geometrical patterns that I said that I would get, if you're interested ???....
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2505&page=2

With LOVE.

the norseman

22-04-2007, 12:48 AM

lookfar

22-04-2007, 12:52 AM

G'day sunshine.

Oneofmany has offered to help Raphael and myself to record the songs that we have written, so, when we have the first CD recorded I'll send you a copy. If you would love to pick out a poem we could record it for you as a swap for the I AM ME.... photo (having a go at a new angle here..hehehe).

I posted a few of the pictures of the geometrical patterns that I said that I would get, if you're interested ???....
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2505&page=2

With LOVE.

Ah thanks honey, that's really sweet of you, I'd love to receive one :) Hehe, trying at all angles I see!! Although this sounds like a good one to me, I'll have to really think about that one & let you know cos I've so many favourites, it's hard to choose :)

Those pics are excellent, I love em!! Got my favourite pattern on the wall so I can get mesmerised in it (amongst others!!) & will print the others off soon, thanks again for sharing them :)

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 01:01 AM

lookfar

22-04-2007, 01:09 AM

What is exactly the topic of this thread Norseman ???

The title says "Full of She-at !!!".

Does this mean that the thread is about She-at (shit) ? or is it about being full of shit ?

With LOVE.

Hehe I'm glad you asked that question iaaia, I was thinking the same thing just now :)

Perhaps some of this could to be moved to a music/vibration thread maybe, you've got some great info there?

roxanna222

22-04-2007, 01:25 AM

Hehe I'm glad you asked that question iaaia, I was thinking the same thing just now :)

Perhaps some of this could to be moved to a music/vibration thread maybe, you've got some great info there?

I think if you have followed the thread in its entirety you can pretty well guess what the subject matter is fairly easily. Its about what we are doing as individuals to awaken the people. What concrete steps other then visiting this forum of already like minded individuals. Cheers And I hope this has answered both of your questions. And yes a thread on the music/vibration would be excellent. Ill enjoy watching that one. Thanks

lookfar

22-04-2007, 01:36 AM

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 02:11 AM

I think if you have followed the thread in its entirety you can pretty well guess what the subject matter is fairly easily. Its about what we are doing as individuals to awaken the people. What concrete steps other then visiting this forum of already like minded individuals. Cheers And I hope this has answered both of your questions. And yes a thread on the music/vibration would be excellent. Ill enjoy watching that one. Thanks

G'day Roxanna.

Here is the opening post, and I wonder if you could point out where the subject matter that you have described is written, maybe I missed it in between the complaints of what others are not doing.

Full of She-at !!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is my first post here.

I just have to say that most of you on here and the old icke forum are full of crap.

You come to places like this and complain and pretend you have more insight than others and say how you wish the sheeple would wake up but yet you all really do NOTHING!!!

How many of you actively try and educate people out there ie through leaflets, intellectual groups or even public speaking? None of you. No one has formed a group or any form mechanism to educate THE MASSES - when I was in London last I did not see anyone on Hyde Park Corner sounding off about what is really going on.

Many of you claim to try and convince others of what is going on but just sounding off to your mum or spouse as they struggle to watch Eastenders does not count!!!

Guys, I am not trying to get anyones backs up but please sit back and take a good long look at what I have said.

In the UK alone Mr Blair stands to sell you all down the river by signing an EU constitution (but it is not the constitution if you ask him!!) and thus politically entrenching the entire UK into a prerequisite European Superstate but HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING OR STAND UP TO BE COUNTED??? None!!!! That is but one example where NO ONE stands up to be counted -NONE OF YOU!!!

Food for thought - think it over and lets discuss matters properly and before anyone says "well what have you done!!!" well, I have made you think over and above simply logging on the net and making a career out of complaining anonomously to like minded individuals - preaching to the converted is a waste of time!!!

The Norseman.

Ps English is not my first language. Icelandic is.

And after I have offered a way in which to raise the vibration of the planet for The Norseman to be a part of.......?????

Music is not off topic if we are discussing awakening people. The reason The Norseman wanted to censor the discussion is obvious in the reply....

"I would like to keep this thread on topic please and fail to see the relevance."

And instead of questioning to understand or "to see", more complaints and an attempt at censorship.

The offer that I made about healing the world with music, or raising the vibration, is open for everyone that desires to help. If anyone would like to do their own tests (I have done my own and I am satisfied completely), the previous links and books that I provided are a great place to start your own research and to conduct your own tests. There are also many other resources, including Masaru Emoto and others, that provide compatible knowledge.

With LOVE.

midwich cuckoo

22-04-2007, 02:22 AM

As far as doing something goes, I make Techno music and use it to get info about the world situation out to people. I have petitioned the government on many issues, I visit many forums to spread information and share ideas about what is going on.

That's what I do, so don't come here and tell me that I'm full of shit and have nothing to add.

You attacked us, so I paid the compliment in kind.

What do you suggest that everybody does?.

Take up arms?.

Protest?.

Or stir up people at a forum who, if they had answers to these issues they would certainly share them and actually do from time to time?.

You've even asked someone not to hijack this thread when they offered an idea in answer to what you supposedly began this thread for.

You wanted the attention and now you've got it mate, now give us some of your ideas to what we could do to get out of this mess, rather than tell us how full of shit we are and how we don't speak about what you want!.

lookfar

22-04-2007, 02:50 AM

I watched the Alex collier video in the ufo section and how he puts things across is brillant. May be we should step things up. The time is ticking away and who knows whats up there sleave for the next attack. What if the internet went down for good and we couldn`t contact eachover we would be stuffed. There are some very clever people here with knowlage and good hearts and we need to stick together as one which we do. may be we should set a group up and get to know eachover face to face for when the shit does hit the fan because that day will come. We could set something up where we could meet every few months or so at diffrant locations. you could start at my city if you wanted and im from david icks home town in leicester i can get a room for free where we could meet. We would have to set things up so no trolls or turn up. I dont know if this would work but im willing to give it a try and put the laws of attraction in place. GIve me a week and i will start a thread and call it meeting that way we can get peoples views and see if its worth setting up.

Hi llogun

Great post there :) I reckon it's a good idea & would definitely be interested in it. Look forward to your thread. Funnily enough, Lottie & I were discussing something similar the other day - great stuff!!

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 02:50 AM

Well said Midwich Cuckoo.

And thanks for your understanding of the offer that I made.

Personally, I have over the last 8 years :-

Initiated people through mushrooms into understanding the oneness.

Lived with people to personally assist them in their awakening.

Used geometrical crystal configurations to give energy to the earth, often for weeks at a time, either in parks or on beaches.

Written songs with a friend (Raphael), played them for many, many people, and handed out or given aproximately 100,000 photocopied poems to people.

Discussed with numerous people ways in which we can change our reality.

Written letters to politicians (including the Whitehouse), well known people, spiritual groups and individuals, and even religious groups.

Created geometrical patterns for healing.

Had printed up 1,500 Flower of Life posters and have given out around 800 - 1,000 of them.

Given books, crystals, support and even money to individuals to help them on their journey.

Ahhhh....I could keep going with this....but you get the idea.

With LOVE.

bigus_dickus

22-04-2007, 03:14 AM

i just wasted 10 fucking minutes on that stupid thread. i could be doing what i was doing before, which was saving the world, or reading something good. thanks, norseman.

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 03:18 AM

You are welcome gorgeous.

The books are a great resource to have handy. I just lent Sacred Sounds to Oneofmany and a friend, Raphael, that I write music with, has the other.

Maybe if we come up with the correct vibration in a song it will liberate you to do the I AM ME.... photo. Hehehehe....I haven't forgotten about that.

This is a site that you may find very intersting as well Lookfar....
http://www.pakhomov.com/cryptogram.html

With LOVE.

And it's next on my list to read, I'm in the middle of the cosmic serpent right now (this book is great) and I just finished the Celestine Prophesy, but sacred sounds if definitely next.

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 03:22 AM

G'day sunshine.

Oneofmany has offered to help Raphael and myself to record the songs that we have written, so, when we have the first CD recorded I'll send you a copy. If you would love to pick out a poem we could record it for you as a swap for the I AM ME.... photo (having a go at a new angle here..hehehe).

I posted a few of the pictures of the geometrical patterns that I said that I would get, if you're interested ???....
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2505&page=2

With LOVE.You bet I have. These guys songs are beautiful, and with a good sound engineer behind them (ME) :D we can make these songs resonate the heart. Let's heal the world with music.

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 03:27 AM

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 03:32 AM

And it's next on my list to read, I'm in the middle of the cosmic serpent right now (this book is great) and I just finished the Celestine Prophesy, but sacred sounds if definitely next.

Yeah brother, I love 'The Cosmic Serpent', and 'The Secret in the Bible' has great correlations with it.

You bet I have. These guys songs are beautiful, and with a good sound engineer behind them (ME) we can make these songs resonate the heart. Let's heal the world with music.

Fucking ah.....we might even get some I AM ME... photo's from it....hehehe.

Thanks for the compliment on the music brother.

With LOVE.

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 03:34 AM

Your welcome Brother :)

lookfar

22-04-2007, 03:48 AM

Fucking ah.....we might even get some I AM ME... photo's from it....hehehe.

With LOVE.

Hehe iaaia, there are still a few more guys to post theirs first, but the poem to music does sound tempting;) :p I've just been re-reading them but my list of favourites is 20!!!:) I've tried but I can't get it any shorter!!

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 03:53 AM

Hehe iaaia, there are still a few more guys to post theirs first, but the poem to music does sound tempting;) :p I've just been re-reading them but my list of favourites is 20!!!:) I've tried but I can't get it any shorter!!

That's o.k. sunshine.

There is music for well over 100 poems already, most of it written by Raphael, and we thought that a double album of 30 songs would be the way to go. So there is no worries with 20, send me your list and I'll see what I can do about having them recorded, if not on the first album.

With LOVE.

lookfar

22-04-2007, 04:00 AM

That's o.k. sunshine.

There is music for well over 100 poems already, most of it written by Raphael, and we thought that a double album of 30 songs would be the way to go. So there is no worries with 20, send me your list and I'll see what I can do about having them recorded, if not on the first album.

With LOVE.

Wow that's great news, you have been busy :) Best of luck with it all.

Thanks honey:) 20 was just trying to narrow it down but I'll send the list to you tomorrow as it's 3am & I'm just off to bed. Nite nite :)

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 04:13 AM

Wow that's great news, you have been busy :) Best of luck with it all.

Thanks honey:) 20 was just trying to narrow it down but I'll send the list to you tomorrow as it's 3am & I'm just off to bed. Nite nite :)

It's obvious that you stay up late because you don't need any beauty sleep.

Enjoy and I'll talk with you 'ron ('ron in Aussie lingo = later on).

With LOVE.

lookfar

22-04-2007, 04:17 AM

It's obvious that you stay up late because you don't need any beauty sleep.

Enjoy and I'll talk with you 'ron ('ron in Aussie lingo = later on).

With LOVE.

Ah thanks honey, bless you :)

Ok will do, I'll email you tom (or today even, LOL!) :)

i_am

22-04-2007, 05:44 AM

I am all I am et al,

At the expense of sounding like the forum police and I know this is a free forum but could you please be so kind to not hijack this thread with your music topics. Whilst they may well be of importance I would like to keep this thread on topic please and fail to see the relevance.

I would be happy to participate in a discussion of these topics with you in a seperate thread.

Thanks for your understanding.

The Norseman.

Hi Norseman

So when someone tells you what they are 'doing', you say it is off-topic :confused:

It is very clear that you are on a different wave length to many of the people here. Now I don't have a problem with that. You are where you are in your journey and others are where they are.

Love, compassion, understanding and joy (to mention but a few positive emotions) are doing more to raise the vibration of this planet than all of the 'trying' to awaken people with cold hard facts that most just turn off to anyway.

When you live your life in peace and love, others begin to wonder how you can be that way in this screwed up world. They wonder what you know. They then ask you and you tell them. Meaningful lyrics get through to many who would not normally listen to someone speaking or read a book..

I am not about to go and stand on Speakers Corner in Hyde Park and subject myself to abuse, ridicule and hate. I do not need that energy. We all have different ways of doing things and for me 'being' is one of them...You said in one of your posts that others were 'being' something else. There is no something else to being..

They are not being, they are doing.

As far I have read you have offered no ideas, just criticism of how others perceive things. Offer some constructive ideas but don't expect everyone to agree. Some will, some won't but thats life.

Personally I don't care what anyone else is doing. I live my life as I desire. I do what I feel is right. I will (and have done) march for peace. I will give people information. I will help them to understand if I can but I am not going to force my views on anyone. I will resist the microchip and refuse to play their games. This is what I do and I have convinced many, but in a non-confrontational way.

Do what you do and power to you but please respect that your way is not everyone's way.

amadeus

22-04-2007, 10:35 AM

Ciao,

I think that you basic idea of stirring things up around here and encouraging people to make a difference has been accomplished. I'll thank you for that, we all sometimes need a kick in the butt. ;)

I personally however do not feel the need to continue this debate much longer, because your slightly arrogant and provocative style is no longer constructing. Why don't you start a new thread suggesting concrete ideas of actions to take. I'm sure that those of us who are like-minded(and yes, you may have woken up some of them) will join you there.

Just to humor you(and me) one last time I'll will try to address your questions(or should I say accusations?). Ok,...where did I put my glasses...yes...lets see:

Where to begin.
I do make a big effort to present my way of thinking because I can not present anyone elses as I am not them.

That's good. You do however present the profile of us all in your opening post as a fact.Ok, that might have been just a way of heating things up...?

As to the statement: "Ok, let us ask everyone here: How many of you have been awakened to these truths presented here because of a proactive coherent considered collective action?"

I believe it's a quite simple question, not a statement.

[...] You make the point that you could locate information when you were awakened and I would hazard a guess that a lot of that involved the internet - have a read of the headlines section on this website and you will see that in all possibility this information may not be available freely as it is today. Have a read of this as I would like to discuss that further with you - but suffice to say that the time to allow people to wake themselves may have been and gone.

What makes you think I haven't read them? Have you ever thought that maybe there's a reason for things to happen? Maybe the day when the internet1 goes down and their trying to put up no2, that'll be the day when people REALLY wake up. But it's good to bring that up, maybe we could get some of us to do more research in that area and see what could be done to prevent this shutdown. Yeah, maybe that's something I myself could do(like an action,you know) because of my former education in telecommunications.I'll look into that.

It is far from impossible for me to comprehend - and I do understand your points - I would like to agree with them but it is bullshit to think everyone will suddenly feel the urge that you felt to start seeking answers.

Not suddenly my friend. Just as a little tease: This statement shows you have not read my posts in their entirety.Sound familiar?This is just twisting words(not so much point in this), but I did use the word 'would'."If everybody would be being." But we're getting there I'm sure. Have you ever thought that lets say...planetary motions could have an effect on "the awakening process"? Have you ever thought what happens to this reality of ours/yours when you die? I mean is this world and reality still here after you died? If you answer yes, how would you know?Because maybe this whole world is just an illusion created by your/my mind-and it will vanish the moment we die.Just some alternatives bro.
[/QUOTE]

(I assume you are UK based)

I'll give you a hint: Mitt modersmål är svenska, men jag bor inte i Sverige.

"It would really amaze me if I was the only one who had this experience? By the way, what started your process of searching for the truth? Did somebody hand you a phamplet?" This statement shows you have not read my posts in their entirety but yet you want to discuss my points? Please go back and read them, your question is answered in them.

Did you mean:

I started on my research into these topics because I have a deep interest in language etc I like to study on protolanguage and origins of words etc and that lead me to the study of Sumer and the Annunaki and from that on we go.

Ok, so tell me where did this deep interest in languages come from? Maybe something in you started that sparkle of wanting to know more about languages, thus leading you to the knowledge you now have.

[...]Again, the masses, not you, me or other so called truth seekers may not feel an urge to research and many do not even know anything is afoot UNLESS they are educated as such.

Hmmm...this is just where we fundamentally disagree. I believe the awakening process is like a computer virus in the collective mind that just keeps growing. The more I know and educate myself, the more "sparkles" in peoples subconscious that will light. Those who seek shall be given.

So I'll promise to try and do some "concrete actions" if you'll promise to give collective awareness, LOA and intuition a chance. Good luck on your path, let me know how your doing!

'E pluribus unum' - 'One from many'

-amadeus-

the norseman

22-04-2007, 12:15 PM

One of many, I am all I am, lookfar,

I was not / am not trying to censor your posts on Music etc. What I was suggesting was that you made your point that Music was one way to raise awareness and that you were engaging in it so you are not doing she-at (I did try to say most and not all in my original thread and the use of my initial language tone has been addressed in subsequent posts).

I fail to see the relevance of how the benefits of music contribute to this discussion - like I said, you made your point that music was one possible avenue (and something you are partaking in) that you are partaking in - a deep discussion on this should take place elsewhere NOW. For a start, when threads go off on a tangent information is lost and it is no longer easy to find if people want to review. Do you understand my point now, I was not trying to be insulting or censoring you so please dont be too fragile. Thanks.

I am - to quote you:
"Personally I don't care what anyone else is doing. I live my life as I desire. I do what I feel is right. I will (and have done) march for peace. I will give people information. I will help them to understand if I can but I am not going to force my views on anyone. I will resist the microchip and refuse to play their games. This is what I do and I have convinced many, but in a non-confrontational way.

Do what you do and power to you but please respect that your way is not everyone's way."

Now this is on topic - I dont agree with your statement at all. One of my points is that we SHOULD all care what others are doing if a change is to be made. You may well live life as you desire and what you feel to be right but I guarentee you that "as you desire" is within your comfort zone. You say that you are not going to force your views on anyone and I agree with that, I said earlier if forcing is used then we are exchanging one form of oppression for another but people can be told in no uncertain terms and even Mr Icke employs that method. A "harder" (notice I did not say hard) line approach maybe would not go amiss (we can discuss that further).

You say that you will resist the Microchip and I am arguing that if you are at a point of refusing it then we are too late as it should never come to fruition and it will not if we make a collective effort. Again the main point of this thread. I bet you sit at home at times, read what passes for news and wonder why doesnt anyone say anything etc but I am saying that you are that anyone (as am I) and WE have to start saying something.

We can discuss the merits of how music may well play a part in the above in a seperate thread if you like. I am researching the topic as we speak and am in the infancy of my education on the topic and would like to explore it deeper so please kick off another thread where we can all engage on that topic.

Amadeus, thanks for your points, I enjoy the discussion and you do make some very good points. You opening statement was exactly what I wanted to hear hence the thread title and the first use of the language I did - that was my aim and it did work - sometimes as I said above a harder line approach does not always go amiss.

As regarding my point "have a read" etc, that is not 100% aimed at you specifically but also the lurkers that are reading this thread - it is refering them to the point that time may well be critical in the not too distant future and many of the books, websites and discussions we have enjoyed over the years (and have played a ciritical role in our awakening and understanding) may well be a thing of the past. It was not condesending or to make you look not too well versed at all. I would not address your threads the way I have if I did not think you would reply coherently in a thought provoking way for me.

"planetary motions could have an effect on "the awakening process"?

I do not doubt it but again, as hinted at earlier in the discussion on politics and Science that many of these processes have been perverted and altered. If the powers that be know that this is the case then surely they will use ways to prevent or minimise the impact of this. Here we can go into why certain things seem to happen on certain dates etc My point again is that time may be running out and a collective effort on our parts is required.

I take back that you are UK based.

Yes, If people "would be being" then none of us would need to come here but people wont. They have been manipulated, oppressed and taught to fear since almost the beginning of time. They are also provided with immense distractions be it entertainment, the latest fashions, debt etc. Many that feel a need for change or spritiual enhancement fall into a lot of the traps such as manufactured religion or following so called truth seekers with an agenda. Again, education, is the way out of this. People have not been woken up for 2 millenia or more and unless the planetory influences are very strong they wont anytime in a hurry because they do not even know they are asleep.

"I believe the awakening process is like a computer virus in the collective mind that just keeps growing. The more I know and educate myself, the more "sparkles" in peoples subconscious that will light. Those who seek shall be given.

So I'll promise to try and do some "concrete actions" if you'll promise to give collective awareness, LOA and intuition a chance. Good luck on your path, let me know how your doing!"

Agreed, it may well be but the virus may well be too slow compared to the conspiracy and the control grid. Time is not a luxury that we have much of I fear. Just look back over the changes to the that have taken place over the last 5 years. The laws make up of the world has changed beyond recognition but many dont see it because to them it is still business as usual. Living from one Christmas to the next, going into debt to take one holiday a year and getting home in time for the soap operas and the latest celebrity TV voting crap.

"concrete actions" in my opinion is what is required. I will give it a chance and I dont think we disagree too much once it is analysed. I think that collective awareness as you refer to should be a complement to concrete actions and not the other way round.

The Norseman.

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 12:31 PM

the norseman

22-04-2007, 01:12 PM

Oneofmany,

I think Roxanne sums up the answer to your post in her earlier thread:

"I think if you have followed the thread in its entirety you can pretty well guess what the subject matter is fairly easily. Its about what we are doing as individuals to awaken the people. What concrete steps other then visiting this forum of already like minded individuals. Cheers And I hope this has answered both of your questions. And yes a thread on the music/vibration would be excellent. Ill enjoy watching that one. Thanks"

Now Music as I say, is one way that you are employing and the point has been made and a very valid one at that. What I am getting at is which I thought I did make quite clear (as I obviously have not I apologise) is that we then do not need lots of threads with music links and discussion of the merits of music to bring about change - they are as I have said a few times valid concepts etc but the merits should be discussed in their own thread - that is all I am saying. I made the point that for a start people that may have a deep interest in music and/or things to contribute may never read this thread and so miss out on the links that have been supplied etc and will never pick your brain on the merits. A new thread will facilitate this sharing of knowledge.

There is no point having individual threads - we may as well just have one large one encompassing everything, I am sure you can see why that is not practical. Please start another thread on the merits as I would love to learn more. Please do not get so upset there is no need, I have not taken anything away from you as many would agree.

You may well be getting to the heart of the issue, ie this thread is about concrete steps that people are taking and music is yours but as stated ad nausium now the FULL list of merits, relevant links etc and spinoffs from this discussion should be kicked off in a new thread to explore them further.

Where did I say I was all knowing? Where did I say you are in an intellectual wilderness? In fact where did I say you were ever wrong? In fact I think I defended your believes on Music as a medium and admitted my ignorance on the subject and asked you in the know to start a new thread where I and others can explore this fascinating topic further. Here is not the place.

The above post I have supplied is off topic and I wanted avoid such things as they are distracting from the discussion. I hope I have made myself clear and look forward to your thread.

The Norseman.

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 01:27 PM

Where did I say I was all knowing? Where did I say you are in an intellectual wilderness? In fact where did I say you were ever wrong?

I said your attitude is coming off sounding like that, by cutting us off from a relevant part of the questions you brought up, your acting like a policeman in this thread when somebody YOU deem is going off topic posts. The other problems with your style have already been addressed in my previous posts, at the end of the day, we are still talking about the questions YOU brought up in your first post, even if you cant see it. I'm not getting upset or angry here, just pointing out the facts as I see them is all

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 01:38 PM

One of many, I am all I am, lookfar,

I was not / am not trying to censor your posts on Music etc. Yes you were and you still are TRYING. What I was suggesting was that you made your point that Music was one way to raise awareness and that you were engaging in it so you are not doing she-at (I did try to say most and not all in my original thread and the use of my initial language tone has been addressed in subsequent posts). You "try". Why not actually doing it, similar to your belief that others should be doing.
I fail to see Once again YOU FAIL TO SEE and you therefore dismiss it without discussion. the relevance of how the benefits of music contribute to this discussion - like I said, you made your point that music was one possible avenue (and something you are partaking in) that you are partaking in - a deep discussion on this should take place elsewhere NOW. As I am already doing it, maybe it should be you that has the deep discussion about it. For a start, when threads go off on a tangent What is your point for this thread. I asked and you haven't answered ? information is lost and it is no longer easy to find if people want to review. Do you understand my point now, I was not trying to be insulting or censoring you so please dont be too fragile. Thanks.

I am - to quote you:
"Personally I don't care what anyone else is doing. I live my life as I desire. I do what I feel is right. I will (and have done) march for peace. I will give people information. I will help them to understand if I can but I am not going to force my views on anyone. I will resist the microchip and refuse to play their games. This is what I do and I have convinced many, but in a non-confrontational way.

Do what you do and power to you but please respect that your way is not everyone's way."

Now this is on topic - I dont agree with your statement at all. Ahh, so the topic is you not agreeing with others statements. One of my points is that we SHOULD all care what others are doing if a change is to be made. Why SHOULD I have to do what you want ? If you desire to change then do so, or are you waiting for others to hold your hand before you do ? You may well live life as you desire and what you feel to be right but I guarentee you that "as you desire" is within your comfort zone. You guarentee ??? Can you also guarentee the lottery results ? You do not know I am personally, so your guarentees are really assumptions. You say that you are not going to force your views on anyone and I agree with that, And yet you attempt to force the topic of this thread. I said earlier if forcing is used then we are exchanging one form of oppression for another but people can be told in no uncertain terms and even Mr Icke employs that method. A "harder" (notice I did not say hard) line approach maybe would not go amiss (we can discuss that further). Being given understandings and being told what to do are two totally different things. And we can definitely discuss this further if you so desire.
You say that you will resist the Microchip and I am arguing that if you are at a point of refusing it then we are too late as it should never come to fruition and it will not if we make a collective effort. Again the main point of this thread. I bet Are you a gambler ? you sit at home at times, read what passes for news and wonder why doesnt anyone say anything etc but I am saying that you are that anyone (as am I) and WE have to start saying something. Once again, if you desire to do something, then do it and allow others to do as they desire.

We can discuss the merits of how music may well play a part in the above in a seperate thread if you like. I am researching the topic as we speak and am in the infancy of my education on the topic and would like to explore it deeper so please kick off another thread where we can all engage on that topic. So, you are not willing to discuss something that you have NO knowledge of. Is this because you truly wish to preach and not discuss ?
Amadeus, thanks for your points, I enjoy the discussion and you do make some very good points. You opening statement was exactly what I wanted to hear hence the thread title and the first use of the language I did - that was my aim and it did work - sometimes as I said above a harder line approach does not always go amiss. And it isn't always creative either.

As regarding my point "have a read" etc, that is not 100% aimed at you specifically but also the lurkers that are reading this thread - it is refering them to the point that time may well be critical in the not too distant future and many of the books, websites and discussions we have enjoyed over the years (and have played a ciritical role in our awakening and understanding) may well be a thing of the past. It was not condesending or to make you look not too well versed at all. I would not address your threads the way I have if I did not think you would reply coherently in a thought provoking way for me.

"planetary motions could have an effect on "the awakening process"?

I do not doubt it but again, as hinted at earlier in the discussion on politics and Science that many of these processes have been perverted and altered. If the powers that be know that this is the case then surely they will use ways to prevent or minimise the impact of this. Here we can go into why certain things seem to happen on certain dates etc My point again is that time may be running out and a collective effort on our parts is required.

I take back that you are UK based.

Yes, If people "would be being" then none of us would need to come here but people wont. Or do you mean that you won't ? They have been manipulated, oppressed and taught to fear since almost the beginning of time. They are also provided with immense distractions be it entertainment, the latest fashions, debt etc. Many that feel a need for change or spritiual enhancement fall into a lot of the traps such as manufactured religion or following so called truth seekers with an agenda. Again, education, is the way out of this. People have not been woken up for 2 millenia or more and unless the planetory influences are very strong they wont anytime in a hurry because they do not even know they are asleep.

"I believe the awakening process is like a computer virus in the collective mind that just keeps growing. The more I know and educate myself, the more "sparkles" in peoples subconscious that will light. Those who seek shall be given.

So I'll promise to try That is an empty promise if you only "try" and don't do. and do some "concrete actions" if you'll promise to give collective awareness, LOA and intuition a chance. Good luck on your path, let me know how your doing!"

Agreed, it may well be but the virus may well be too slow compared to the conspiracy and the control grid. Time is not a luxury that we have much of I fear. When you come from a position of love there is no fear. Just look back over the changes to the that have taken place over the last 5 years. The laws make up of the world has changed beyond recognition but many dont see it because to them it is still business as usual. Living from one Christmas to the next, going into debt to take one holiday a year and getting home in time for the soap operas and the latest celebrity TV voting crap.

"concrete actions" in my opinion is what is required. So go and do your "concrete actions". I will give it a chance and I dont think we disagree too much once it is analysed. I think that collective awareness as you refer to should be a complement to concrete actions and not the other way round.

The Norseman.

With LOVE.

limelady

22-04-2007, 01:43 PM

Just because YOU fail to see the relevance of what we were talking about, doesn't mean we weren't getting to the heart of your issue. The highlighted parts of your post come of very condescending in my point of view, and I believe you are deliberately trying to insult us, and for what? answering your question about what we were individually doing to get the message across? How do you come to the conclusion that you are all knowing, while we are in the intellectual wilderness? because that's how your coming off. Great way to make friends and influence people, straight out of Hitlers book on relations hey!

Hi oneofmany

From reading the norseman's last post, I didn't at all feel he was deliberately trying to insult you or anyone else with regard to the role music may play in the awakening and healing of humanity. In fact he said he was researching it himself now, so I think you have achieved your goal of awakening him to the idea that music may have a large role to play.

Actually, music and frequencies its such a HUGE subject, it really does deserve its own thread, and the norseman has even stated he will contribute there also, which means we can all learn from each other here. Isn't this what this forum is all about? :D :D :D

Personally I can't wait to hear what you, IAAIA and Raphael come up with.....and I know many others on the forum will want to keep abreast of how it all goes too, so you guys are going to need your own thread soon anyway! ;)

Remember guys, we're all on the same team.

i_am

22-04-2007, 01:45 PM

Now this is on topic - I dont agree with your statement at all

Of course you don't because you have decided that we should all do things a certain way.

[B]One of my points is that we SHOULD all care what others are doing if a change is to be made.

Once again, we cannot force anyone to do anything. I did not say that I did not care IF others were doing anything, I merely pointed out that we do what we do and it is not up to any one person to dictate HOW we do it.

but people can be told in no uncertain terms and even Mr Icke employs that method. A "harder" (notice I did not say hard) line approach maybe would not go amiss (we can discuss that further).

I think I said that I did, didn't I? in a non-confrontational way!
Mr Icke merely gives information, do with it what you will. I am not here to justify myself to you and I will therefore not continue along this line.

I bet you sit at home at times, read what passes for news and wonder why doesnt anyone say anything etc but I am saying that you are that anyone (as am I) and WE have to start saying something.

grrrrrrr! I am not even going to dignify that quote with a rebuttal.

Threads go off-topic. Get over it. It will come back on track. Sure there are some little asides and a little bit of banter. lighten up! Life is not meant to be so intense. Yep!! The whole issue is serious but that is not to say we can't have a laugh now and then (and a cyber love in, if we so desire)

I believe that everyone on this planet at this time is here because they chose to be. They will awaken when and if they are ready. Something will happen to make the penny drop and then it is our job to help them. They will need nurturing as there whole 'reality' falls apart. There will be fear, anger, frustration. The last thing they need is to be bombarded from all sides. I have an extensive library and usually have something that suits the level of understanding, be it spiritual, ancient civilisations or NWO related.

The aggressive approach may work for some but from what I have seen, it more tends to piss people off. When that happens you have lost them.

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 01:53 PM

Hi oneofmany

From reading the norseman's last post, I didn't at all feel he was deliberately trying to insult you or anyone else with regard to the role music may play in the awakening and healing of humanity. In fact he said he was researching it himself now, so I think you have achieved your goal of awakening him to the idea that music may have a large role to play.

Actually, music and frequencies its such a HUGE subject, it really does deserve its own thread, and the norseman has even stated he will contribute there also, which means we can all learn from each other here. Isn't this what this forum is all about? :D :D :D

Personally I can't wait to hear what you, IAAIA and Raphael come up with.....and I know many others on the forum will want to keep abreast of how it all goes too, so you guys are going to need your own thread soon anyway! ;)

Remember guys, we're all on the same team.
That's your opinion, I read it a bit differently

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 01:55 PM

I have another question for you norseman. If you say you know nothing about music, how can you know whether it is off topic or not ?

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 01:58 PM

I have another question for you norseman. If you say you know nothing about music, how can you know whether it is off topic or not ?

Great question Oneofmany. Pertinent and to the point.

And I think that we all know the answer to the question !!!

With LOVE.

i_am

22-04-2007, 02:29 PM

OK I have a question too :p

Go and get your ladder, soap box or whatever, take it along to speakers corner and hand out pamphlets while yelling your truths above the hecklers. You may get one or two who actually read the pamphlet or listen to what you are spruking.

How is this going to change things? The last two elections in the US showed that what the people want means jack shit to the elite. They have their President SELECTED in the big house, not the one the people ELECTED. It matters not which party gets in, the one who serves their purpose best will become President, Prime Minister, whatever.

Millions, possibly billions, worldwide marched for peace prior to the illegal invasion of Iraq. Did it stop the agenda? LOL Didn't even slow it down.

I believe that the eventual change will be a spiritual one, not a revolution. I believe that it will happen in the twinkling of an eye. I believe that raising the vibration will do more to bring this on than anything else. Sure we need to be aware and we do need to resist what they have planned and we do need to inform people but anger and fear just feeds their energy. From what you said in another thread it would appear that you feel this way of thinking is bullshit and that is your prerogative and you could be right BUT you could, however, be wrong :D

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 02:33 PM

How is this going to change things?Another relevant question. Excellent I am

the norseman

22-04-2007, 02:40 PM

Thanks for the responses but again I feel we are getting off topic.

This thread was started to and has developed as such to ask the question, what do most people really do to bring about change other than coming here and preaching to the converted or living in a shell of so called knowledge but never standing up to be counted to make their real beliefs known to and to educate where it really matters ie to the masses.

I came to some conclusions that some of the forms are:

1) MUSIC 2) My so called proactive response by forming groups and working on a common aim, political lobbying and focusing attention on educating people in a way they can understand to raise awareness to the global plight.
3) Amadeus advocated a "being" form of bringing about change etc

This is to name but a few.

Now, the individual merits of these forms need not necesarily be listed in this thread where they are hidden from people that may not read this thread. THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING QUITE CLEARY - but instead some of you guys and gals are missing this and for some reason have interpreted it completely wrong and have taken statements completely out of context and interpreted them as an attack and now the thread has been somewhat hijacked by this.

Limelady makes some very valid points based on this - so please read her post again.

The statement:

" have another question for you norseman. If you say you know nothing about music, how can you know whether it is off topic or not ?"

This is silly and I will tell you why because it has been addressed - I know what the topic of this thread is and the INDIVIDUAL components of everyones actions to bring about change is not what this is about - again - a seperate thread is needed for these where the knowledge can be shared and easily accessed not hidden amongst these silly irrelevent arguments in this thread.

I am all I am - your large thread with bold against my points are 100% off the mark - have another read through the thread in its entirety and then write me a response based on the entire post and not on individual sentences mid paragraph which are completely out of context.

One example but I will not go through them all because they serve no purpose and again are taking things off topic:

"I fail to see Once again YOU FAIL TO SEE and you therefore dismiss it without discussion. the relevance of how the benefits of music contribute to this discussion "

I fail to see the relevence of how music contributes to this discussion ON PROPOSED FORMS OF ACTION - it has been highlighted that it is a form and a large and complex one at that and now deserves to not clutter this thread with every single item of it - BUT DESERVES ITS OWN THREAD.

You say I am dismissing without discussion - we have been discussing it for the last 10 posts or so - I have even gone on further to say:

"""You may well be getting to the heart of the issue, ie this thread is about concrete steps that people are taking and music is yours but as stated ad nausium now the FULL list of merits, relevant links etc and spinoffs from this discussion should be kicked off in a new thread to explore them further.

Where did I say I was all knowing? Where did I say you are in an intellectual wilderness? In fact where did I say you were ever wrong? In fact I think I defended your believes on Music as a medium and admitted my ignorance on the subject and asked you in the know to start a new thread where I and others can explore this fascinating topic further. Here is not the place.""""

If thats is dismissing music as a medium then I obviously have looked up the wrong word in the dictionary but I would hazard a guess that I have not and sadly you are reading only one sentence or word at a time and not putting them to together into a complete package. It is obvious that you are not reading and understanding in entirity because you think you are picking holes in my points but you are quoting other posters and making out they are my points, example and then no more because it is truly ridiculous (your inserted text is underlined):

""""So I'll promise to try That is an empty promise if you only "try" and don't do. and do some "concrete actions" if you'll promise to give collective awareness, LOA and intuition a chance. Good luck on your path, let me know how your doing!""""""

That paragraph was written by amadeaus - so please read everything properly, in context, think about it and then respond accurately please and that way the discussions have substance.

I will say it simply:

Music is one form of diseminating information, sparking interest and debate and it is on topic in this thread based on that - now to carry on EVERY single merit of it, how it affects the people at a cellular level, how it affects the planet, who you are collaborating with on it, what books you are reading, where you obtain it and all the other links should be encompassed in a thread of its own where those that have a limited knowledge of it (and I have admited a number of times that I am one of these people) can read it clearly and contribute and further their understanding.

I can not be clearer than that. A vast topic like music as I have said many times now deserves its own place where people who really want to talk about it can access the information easily and quickly and not have to sift through the last pointless arguments to find it.

So please lets not block this thread up with anymore bullshit.

The Norseman.

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 02:40 PM

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 03:04 PM

G'day Norseman,

I am all I am - your large thread with bold against my points are 100% off the mark - have another read through the thread in its entirety and then write me a response based on the entire post and not on individual sentences mid paragraph which are completely out of context. Perhaps you should re-read the points for a clearer understanding.

One example but I will not go through them all because they serve no purpose If they serve no purpose, why go through any of them ? and again are taking things off topic:

"I fail to see Once again YOU FAIL TO SEE and you therefore dismiss it without discussion. the relevance of how the benefits of music contribute to this discussion "

I fail to see As you say it, for you shall it be. the relevence of how music contributes to this discussion ON PROPOSED FORMS OF ACTION

"100% off the mark" - and your proof is ....???? Or is it merely your opinion ?

Music is a form of action. I will use the guitar as an example for you to understand. You pick it up, hold your left fingers on the strings in set patterns and strum with your right fingers (or the opposite hands if you prefer). Sound, music, is created from your ACTIONS.

Has this helped you "to see the relevance..." Norseman ?

With LOVE.

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 03:16 PM

Thanks for the responses but again I feel we are getting off topic.

This thread was started to and has developed as such to ask the question, what do most people really do to bring about change other than coming here and preaching to the converted or living in a shell of so called knowledge but never standing up to be counted to make their real beliefs known to and to educate where it really matters ie to the masses. People have tried to do exactly that, but you say it's off topic and that were silly for even bringing it up

I came to some conclusions that some of the forms are:

1) MUSIC 2) My so called proactive response by forming groups and working on a common aim, political lobbying and focusing attention on educating people in a way they can understand to raise awareness to the global plight. Yes Political songs are ones people remember, sadly nobody is doing it anymore EXCEPT PEOPLE LIKE US
3) Amadeus advocated a "being" form of bringing about change etc

This is to name but a few.

Now, the individual merits of these forms need not necesarily be listed in this thread where they are hidden from people that may not read this thread. If the thread is interesting, people will read all sides of the equasionTHIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING QUITE CLEARY - but instead some of you guys and gals are missing this and for some reason have interpreted it completely wrong and have taken statements completely out of context and interpreted them as an attack and now the thread has been somewhat hijacked by this. It hasn't been Hi Jacked as you say, only balanced out from your "police state tactics"

Limelady makes some very valid points based on this - so please read her post again. I read her posts and unfortunately, I don't agree

The statement:

" have another question for you norseman. If you say you know nothing about music, how can you know whether it is off topic or not ?"

This is silly and I will tell you why because it has been addressed - I know what the topic of this thread is and the INDIVIDUAL components of everyones actions to bring about change is not what this is about - again - a seperate thread is needed for these where the knowledge can be shared and easily accessed not hidden amongst these silly irrelevent arguments in this thread. How is this silly? you have not addressed it, because music has a big affect on a lot of people, and some recearch suggests that music will raise the overall vibration og conciousness, thus raising us out of the matrix paradigm that you seem so fixed in

I am all I am - your large thread with bold against my points are 100% off the mark - have another read through the thread in its entirety and then write me a response based on the entire post and not on individual sentences mid paragraph which are completely out of context. He's just responding to your words

One example but I will not go through them all because they serve no purpose and again are taking things off topic: Your quick to say what is irrelevant or not, aren't you?

"I fail to see Once again YOU FAIL TO SEE and you therefore dismiss it without discussion. the relevance of how the benefits of music contribute to this discussion " Once again, you won't let us discuss it so we can't enlighten you because you believe it's irrelevant. A conundrum to be sure.

I fail to see the relevence of how music contributes to this discussion ON PROPOSED FORMS OF ACTION - it has been highlighted that it is a form and a large and complex one at that and now deserves to not clutter this thread with every single item of it - BUT DESERVES ITS OWN THREAD. But what we have to say would fit in nicely if you only opened your mind to the idea that it's relevant to the topic at hand.

You say I am dismissing without discussion - we have been discussing it for the last 10 posts or so - I have even gone on further to say: No we have been defending the right to discuss the topic, not the topic itself.

"""You may well be getting to the heart of the issue, ie this thread is about concrete steps that people are taking and music is yours but as stated ad nausium now the FULL list of merits, relevant links etc and spinoffs from this discussion should be kicked off in a new thread to explore them further. You haven't let us state our case as to why it should be in this topic.

Where did I say I was all knowing? Where did I say you are in an intellectual wilderness? In fact where did I say you were ever wrong? In fact I think I defended your believes on Music as a medium and admitted my ignorance on the subject and asked you in the know to start a new thread where I and others can explore this fascinating topic further. Here is not the place."""" Once again, re read my posts, I said it's the way you are portraying yourself to be, not literally what you've said.

If thats is dismissing music as a medium then I obviously have looked up the wrong word in the dictionary but I would hazard a guess that I have not and sadly you are reading only one sentence or word at a time and not putting them to together into a complete package. It is obvious that you are not reading and understanding in entirity because you think you are picking holes in my points but you are quoting other posters and making out they are my points, example and then no more because it is truly ridiculous (your inserted text is underlined): There your words, how can somebody pick on what you say, unless of course, what you say is offensive to others, or arrogant. I'm just trying to answer your points. And it is quite presumptuous to assume that we don't understand what you are saying.

""""So I'll promise to try That is an empty promise if you only "try" and don't do. and do some "concrete actions" if you'll promise to give collective awareness, LOA and intuition a chance. Good luck on your path, let me know how your doing!"""""" It's quite hard to tell who's words you are using if you don't use the quote function. Im sure I am all I am, didn't know that it was somebody else's words

That paragraph was written by amadeaus - so please read everything properly, in context, think about it and then respond accurately please and that way the discussions have substance.

I will say it simply:

Music is one form of diseminating information, sparking interest and debate and it is on topic in this thread based on that - now to carry on EVERY single merit of it, how it affects the people at a cellular level, how it affects the planet, who you are collaborating with on it, what books you are reading, where you obtain it and all the other links should be encompassed in a thread of its own where those that have a limited knowledge of it (and I have admited a number of times that I am one of these people) can read it clearly and contribute and further their understanding. But it's much more than what you think, this is what we want to elaborate on, but you keep knocking it on the head because you believe it is irrelevant.

I can not be clearer than that. A vast topic like music as I have said many times now deserves its own place where people who really want to talk about it can access the information easily and quickly and not have to sift through the last pointless arguments to find it. But we want to talk about how music can be used to change the world and how we will do it, which is totally relevant to this topic, but you won't let us

So please lets not block this thread up with anymore bullshit. This is not Bullshit, it is quite relevant to your topic, even more so than the one theme that your driving at, but once again, you won't give us the chance to elaborate.

The Norseman.Oneofmany..

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 03:23 PM

Personally, I have over the last 8 years :-

Initiated people through mushrooms into understanding the oneness.

Lived with people to personally assist them in their awakening.

Used geometrical crystal configurations to give energy to the earth, often for weeks at a time, either in parks or on beaches.

Written songs with a friend (Raphael), played them for many, many people, and handed out or given aproximately 100,000 photocopied poems to people.

Discussed with numerous people ways in which we can change our reality.

Written letters to politicians (including the Whitehouse), well known people, spiritual groups and individuals, and even religious groups.

Created geometrical patterns for healing.

Had printed up 1,500 Flower of Life posters and have given out around 800 - 1,000 of them.

Given books, crystals, support and even money to individuals to help them on their journey.

Ahhhh....I could keep going with this....but you get the idea.

With LOVE.

This is my first post here.

I just have to say that most of you on here and the old icke forum are full of crap.

You come to places like this and complain and pretend you have more insight than others and say how you wish the sheeple would wake up but yet you all really do NOTHING!!!

How many of you actively try and educate people out there ie through leaflets, intellectual groups or even public speaking? None of you. No one has formed a group or any form mechanism to educate THE MASSES - when I was in London last I did not see anyone on Hyde Park Corner sounding off about what is really going on.

Many of you claim to try and convince others of what is going on but just sounding off to your mum or spouse as they struggle to watch Eastenders does not count!!!

Guys, I am not trying to get anyones backs up but please sit back and take a good long look at what I have said.

In the UK alone Mr Blair stands to sell you all down the river by signing an EU constitution (but it is not the constitution if you ask him!!) and thus politically entrenching the entire UK into a prerequisite European Superstate but HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING OR STAND UP TO BE COUNTED??? None!!!! That is but one example where NO ONE stands up to be counted -NONE OF YOU!!!
Food for thought - think it over and lets discuss matters properly and before anyone says "well what have you done!!!" well, I have made you think over and above simply logging on the net and making a career out of complaining anonomously to like minded individuals - preaching to the converted is a waste of time!!!

The Norseman.

Ps English is not my first language. Icelandic is.

G'day Norseman.

I have expressed some of the things that I do.

Please enlighten us all as to what it is that you do.

With LOVE.

midwich cuckoo

22-04-2007, 03:25 PM

This thread has just went from bad to worse, I'm done wasting my time with it.

I'm off to watch my dog chase his own tail. ;)

the norseman

22-04-2007, 03:28 PM

I_am,

Thanks for the post - good points and ones I would like to address:

I will not be in London for a good few months now so speakers corner is not ideal for me - but I will continue to speak when I return to Iceland. Also as stated earlier public speaking is but one way of doing things. Leaflets as you suggest are another - if I hand out 100 leaflets and only 1 or 2 get read, is that a waste of time as you infer? I think not. Those one or two people may well do the same and another 1 or 2 could follow suit - you do the maths. Again if a great many people were lobbying with the alternative media then people can not help but catch on in varying degrees. A good example of this is 9/11. A group of dedicated scholars have formed a network of information sharing and fact. They get the info out there in laymans terms and people are catching on. They start at the beginning by highlighting the anomolies and take it from there.

""""I believe that the eventual change will be a spiritual one, not a revolution. I believe that it will happen in the twinkling of an eye. I believe that raising the vibration will do more to bring this on than anything else. Sure we need to be aware and we do need to resist what they have planned and we do need to inform people but anger and fear just feeds their energy. From what you said in another thread it would appear that you feel this way of thinking is bullshit and that is your prerogative and you could be right BUT you could, however, be wrong""""

I dont think this form of thinking is bullshit, again please read what I said in context and not in isolation - it is almost like you have made your mind up with what I say before you read it properly and you profess to have an open mind. What I said was that is bullshit to think this will bring about a mass awakening - music / song / imagination may well have its place BUT I think we need to form groups and start to educate people in a layered way (I used the onion to illustrate this point in another thread, which I think was the one you were referring to) - you see, if you go up to Joe Public and start talking about imagining reality, love your way to better existance you will do nothing to further your cause. As said earlier the information has been oppressed for so long and a lot of people sadly as I have said are just shells in many ways reacting in a perfectly predictable manner to the stimulus that the powers that be give them - a very great and ingrained stimulus - if you start with the esoteric they will walk away. If David Icke had started is WTC book with the lizards did it, how many people who are no converts would have read the end and we awakened somewhat? I think you can answer that.

As I said - the so called spirtual side of things should be a complement to bring about this change - they may well form the heart of the matter further down the path of humanities enlightment but they are not the heart of the beginning.

"""Millions, possibly billions, worldwide marched for peace prior to the illegal invasion of Iraq. Did it stop the agenda? LOL Didn't even slow it down.""""

This is a blinkered statement in my opinion as history contradicts this statement. If you look back only as far as WW1 and WW2 and read profusely on the subject you will well know that these were manufactured conflicts. How many people truely marched in protest ? Hardly any, in fact people were falling over themselves to join up. Now, fast forward to the Iraq war and you see millions out in protest - high ranking officers and politicians speaking in protest. Bit of a difference. You say that it had no impact but it did - certain countries despite the coalition bullying did not engage in this war - France for one. So it did make a difference. What caused these people to get out bed and make themselves heard? Education in part to what the real agenda is. Now, my point has been what can we do as a group as we are the so called "enlightened ones" in many ways to make sure that that was the snowball to cause the avalanche!!!!

The eventual high level change may well be a spiritual one - I do not know and I would be interested as I have said to read your thoughts on music - but the low level change which I hope is stirring is one of education, coherent groups of like minded individuals forming a bond to make a real change happen - It is our duty to do this in my opinion. The spiritual side of things in my opinion forms an accompanyment to this initially and who knows maybe the heart further down the line.

The Norseman.

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 03:32 PM

G'day Norseman.

I have expressed some of the things that I do.

Please enlighten us all as to what it is that you do.

With LOVE.I have already asked that question, with deafening silence as the response.

Now I mention it, what are you doing to spread the word?

oneofmany

22-04-2007, 03:39 PM

The eventual high level change may well be a spiritual one - I do not know and I would be interested as I have said to read your thoughts on music - but the low level change which I hope is stirring is one of education, coherent groups of like minded individuals forming a bond to make a real change happen - It is our duty to do this in my opinion. The spiritual side of things in my opinion forms an accompanyment to this initially and who knows maybe the heart further down the line.Isn't this what we are doing on this forum? Entering politics won't work, it's just adding to the problem, so what kind of group do you advocate? a musical group maybe?

the norseman

22-04-2007, 04:18 PM

What am I doing? You question has not been met with deafening silence as it has been addressed albeit in part and does deserve my further clarification.

For one, I have stirred a great many people to take interest that we can talk all we like in forums such as these but we are somewhat going nowhere or progressing very slowly. In less than 48 hours I have caused a large response to my points with over 1500 views and a lot of replies - that is not bad and I have made people think.

A number of posters have addmited that we may well have been complacent at times etc and posts such as mine serve to give everyone a shake up.

Now, I am trying to get people to realise that in order for a global change to manifest we need to join together and form a group that can exert a collective effort against the tyranny. What have I done? I have come here to see who is interested in actually doing something. One poster offered the use of his room etc for people to meet, study and discuss but it seemed no one bothered to even consider the idea because it goes outside of comfort zones. There is a saying the Good is the Enemy of Best - many people are content to fill their hours with endevours that while Good are not the Best. I also hoped to focus people to the fact that just because they think the Esoteric is the answer etc it does not mean that is the starting point to educate people. I have described how knowledge is layered and starting to educate using the end outcome is useless.

"""""Isn't this what we are doing on this forum? Entering politics won't work, it's just adding to the problem, so what kind of group do you advocate? a musical group maybe?"""""""

In part yes, but in the most part no. No, I dont advocate a pure music group based on what I have been said a number of times already - please try and think beyond music being the answer to everything. It is not a way to waken the masses. Information, fact and first class diseminating machine is. Music can/may play a part - we can discuss that in its own thread - if you ever truly start one. Political will does work. Politics has been downgraded and perverted diliberately in order to turn people off and cause apathy and your statement highlights that this has worked but it need not be so - and deserves to be remodeled.

As to actual physical actions that I do:

1) I am in the process of forming a group in Iceland and hope others will do the same where we can share information, discuss and decide on courses of action and make a collective timely effort to start moving forward.
2) I write profusely to mainline media and Politicians. I email the British Press regularly as I do take issue with the way the EU is turning and also the control laws placed on the British Public - I am often told to mind my own affairs though.
3) I am compiling a huge data archive on topics - a modern library of Alexandria if you like. Many people do not realise quite how close we are to losing a lot of the information on the net etc due to the proposed internet changes. The internet information exchange as we know it may well be a thing of the past.
4) I speak regularly and people do listen - I would like to do more on this front in the future and am developing myself in this respect.
5) I also came here to try and develop my ideas further and to gain some solid import.
6) I am travelling regulary to visit historic sites (hence being in Ireland at the moment) to further my understanding on matters. Like a lot of people my sole research is not just this website or the net in isolation.

The Norseman.

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 04:42 PM

"""""Isn't this what we are doing on this forum? Entering politics won't work, it's just adding to the problem, so what kind of group do you advocate? a musical group maybe?"""""""

In part yes, but in the most part no. No, I dont advocate a pure music group based on what I have been said a number of times already - please try and think beyond music being the answer to everything. It is not a way to waken the masses. If you have no understanding of the subject, why do you continue to profess what it can or can not do ? Information, fact and first class diseminating machine is. Music can/may play a part - we can discuss that in its own thread - if you ever truly start one. Maybe you should start the thread as it is you that has questions because of your lack of understanding and lack of knowledge of the topic. You could even start it with a humble question instead of verbal abuse that you started this thread with. Possibly like this..."As I understand and know little to no knowledge of music, could someone please enlighten me as to it's potential." ...merely a suggestion. Political will does work. And your proof is ??? Politics has been downgraded and perverted diliberately in order to turn people off and cause apathy and your statement highlights that this has worked but it need not be so - and deserves to be remodeled.

With LOVE.

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 04:56 PM

For one, I have stirred a great many people to take interest that we can talk all we like in forums such as these but we are somewhat going nowhere or progressing very slowly. In your opinion, without any fact to back it up. "Information, fact and first class diseminating machine is." Your words that you appear to not follow. In less than 48 hours I have caused a large response to my points with over 1500 views and a lot of replies - that is not bad and I have made people think. Maybe people have been reading this thread to find out about music....and 1,500 pales in comparison to 23,000 on the photo thread....as to you having "caused a large response", check out how many people have actually replied out of the 1,500....

The Norseman.

With LOVE.

i am all i am

22-04-2007, 04:59 PM

As to actual physical actions that I do:

1) I am in the process of forming a group in Iceland and hope others will do the same where we can share information, discuss and decide on courses of action and make a collective timely effort to start moving forward.
2) I write profusely to mainline media and Politicians. I email the British Press regularly as I do take issue with the way the EU is turning and also the control laws placed on the British Public - I am often told to mind my own affairs though.
3) I am compiling a huge data archive on topics - a modern library of Alexandria if you like. Many people do not realise quite how close we are to losing a lot of the information on the net etc due to the proposed internet changes. The internet information exchange as we know it may well be a thing of the past.
4) I speak regularly and people do listen - I would like to do more on this front in the future and am developing myself in this respect.
5) I also came here to try and develop my ideas further and to gain some solid import.
6) I am travelling regulary to visit historic sites (hence being in Ireland at the moment) to further my understanding on matters. Like a lot of people my sole research is not just this website or the net in isolation.

The Norseman.

Even though it took 114 posts, thank you for letting us all know what it is that you do.

With LOVE.

pollock

22-04-2007, 05:51 PM

1) I am in the process of forming a group in Iceland and hope others will do the same where we can share information, discuss and decide on courses of action and make a collective timely effort to start moving forward.
2) I write profusely to mainline media and Politicians. I email the British Press regularly as I do take issue with the way the EU is turning and also the control laws placed on the British Public - I am often told to mind my own affairs though.
3) I am compiling a huge data archive on topics - a modern library of Alexandria if you like. Many people do not realise quite how close we are to losing a lot of the information on the net etc due to the proposed internet changes. The internet information exchange as we know it may well be a thing of the past.
4) I speak regularly and people do listen - I would like to do more on this front in the future and am developing myself in this respect.
5) I also came here to try and develop my ideas further and to gain some solid import.
6) I am travelling regulary to visit historic sites (hence being in Ireland at the moment) to further my understanding on matters. Like a lot of people my sole research is not just this website or the net in isolation.

The Norseman.

And what leads you to the assumption that the rest of us are not doing any of these things (or maybe more)?
It so happens to be that I enjoy coming to this forum, not to wake people up, the reason that most are here in the first place is because they are awake already.
I come here to be able to talk about these things without being told that I am full of shit (thank you very much) and to make friends with likeminded people, I also enjoy the vast amount of info here.

I am so tired of people, on the net and of, who are so full of themself that they have the nerve to tell others that they are not doing enough, when they know nothing about them.
If you are so great why do you feel you need to insult others, it is usually a sign of low selfesteem!
And then to try to justify your insults with crap like, oh but this thread got lots of hits and it made you all wake up!
BS, you got lots of hits because of two things, the people who feel offended and want to defend themselves and the people who want to argue on your side, so congratulations you managed to start an argument, great, that will do a lot of good.
On an other note, I find it nice that you involve yourself as much as you do and I wish you all the luck on your quest, just remember there is not only one way to do things, there are infinite posibilities!

Love
F

yinon

23-04-2007, 10:05 PM

Edelweiss pirate wrote:

advantages (?) to illuminated consciousness, these include: reduced sex drive, reduced appetite, less need/inability to sleep, telepathy, hallucinations or seeing things that were previously invisible... The major one from the Illumies point of view is that you become hooked up to a group consciousness, whether you like it or not, therefore you are even easier to control than before...

PolarizeD!!!!! How can you not be part of a group, enlightened one...328 posts.

The guy is not controled. He sees clearly and he is free. Listen him. Nothing to add.

edelweiss pirate

23-04-2007, 10:20 PM

i am all i am

23-04-2007, 11:04 PM

PolarizeD!!!!! How can you not be part of a group, enlightened one...328 posts.

The guy is not controled. He sees clearly and he is free. Listen him. Nothing to add.

G'day Yinon

A group denotes something other than oneness.

Either there are no groups or only one group of ALL THAT IS.

With LOVE.

i_am

24-04-2007, 12:44 AM

My common sense told me to let this go but my ego won :D

I will not be in London for a good few months now so speakers corner is not ideal for me - but I will continue to speak when I return to Iceland.

It was an example! One that you, yourself, used in your initial post!

Also as stated earlier public speaking is but one way of doing things. Leaflets as you suggest are another - if I hand out 100 leaflets and only 1 or 2 get read, is that a waste of time as you infer?

I did NOT infer that it, or anything else was a waste of time. I asked how this was going to change things when, on the occasions when the people have stood up and been counted, it made not one iota of difference.

Those one or two people may well do the same and another 1 or 2 could follow suit - you do the maths.

So those one or two matter but the one or two or ten or twenty that we are talking to don’t?? And my grip on math is just fine - thank you. I fully understand the idea of ‘it only takes two' MLM companies having been using it for decades.

Again if a great many people were lobbying with the alternative media then people can not help but catch on in varying degrees. A good example of this is 9/11. A group of dedicated scholars have formed a network of information sharing and fact. They get the info out there in laymans terms and people are catching on. They start at the beginning by highlighting the anomolies and take it from there.

Hmmm!! Been doing that since September 11 2001. Talking my head off to all and asunder because as I sat and watched the buildings come down, I said to the people watching it with me that it was a controlled demolition. Didn't you see it that way? So that would be nearly six years that I have been pointing out the anomalies to everyone to whom I talked.

""""I believe that the eventual change will be a spiritual one, not a revolution. I believe that it will happen in the twinkling of an eye. I believe that raising the vibration will do more to bring this on than anything else. Sure we need to be aware and we do need to resist what they have planned and we do need to inform people but anger and fear just feeds their energy. From what you said in another thread it would appear that you feel this way of thinking is bullshit and that is your prerogative and you could be right BUT you could, however, be wrong""""

I dont think this form of thinking is bullshit, again please read what I said in context and not in isolation –

Did you not say this in another thread? Maybe I misunderstood? Yep it is out of context but it really does stand alone.

To go out and tell them to "love" and that "the answers lie in the perceptions of reality" is bullshit because it will lead 99% of people no where.

it is almost like you have made your mind up with what I say before you read it properly and you profess to have an open mind.

Do I?? When did I say that? Actually I do but don’t think I said so. I am sure you will correct me if I am mistaken. You see I do believe people need to be informed but I also think they need a balance. Otherwise they become angry and fearful. This is negative energy and THEY feed on it.

If you look back only as far as WW1 and WW2 and read profusely on the subject you will well know that these were manufactured conflicts.,

Why do you keep assuming that you are so much more well read than everyone else??

Now, fast forward to the Iraq war and you see millions out in protest - high ranking officers and politicians speaking in protest. Bit of a difference. You say that it had no impact but it did - certain countries despite the coalition bullying did not engage in this war - France for one.

Ever heard of good cop bad cop?? Enough countries did take part to totally trash a country that never did anything to them. I doubt more damage would have been done had the rest of the world taken part.

So it did make a difference.

No it didn’t!!! It made not one scrap of difference to the agenda. THEY do not care what WE think. They still invaded Iraq illegally and I reiterate ''They have their President SELECTED in the big house, not the one the people ELECTED."

Yes, I inform people of how we are being manipulated and will resist it to my last breath. However, I believe in ascension. I believe that our planet, along with those who are in sync with her vibration, will ascend into another dimension. That vibration/dimension is not one of fear and anger and fighting. It is one of love and compassion, even for the bad guys. They are just fulfilling their life’s mission, as are you and I. They, too, believe they are right,

I have said to read your thoughts on music –

It is I am all I am that talked about music, not me

but the low level change which I hope is stirring is one of education, coherent groups of like minded individuals forming a bond to make a real change happen - It is our duty to do this in my opinion. The spiritual side of things in my opinion forms an accompanyment to this initially and who knows maybe the heart further down the line.

Cool!! . You do it your way, I will do it mine. The important part is that people are awakened. Lets not argue about the hows. Let us just do it and have respect for each other’s methods.

I am not saying your way is wrong. I am saying it is not right for me. Big difference. So please stop saying that others are doing nothing because they do not wish to do it your way. We are all concerned; otherwise we would not be here talking about it. There are many who are relatively new to all of this. They are still learning and coming to terms with it all. Those of us that have been on this track for a while are helping them to understand. In the meantime we are still learning stuff too.

And that really is my last post to this thread :p :rolleyes: ;)

i am all i am

24-04-2007, 01:21 AM

It is I am all I am that talked about music, not me.

And that really is my last post to this thread :p :rolleyes: ;)

G'day I am.

Maybe Norseman has been confused by the similarities in our ID's.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2904/lolsoleil1bu3.jpg

Anyway, think of his posts as an opportunity to express yourself positively, as I believe you are doing, as opposed to his negative approach. I love reading your thoughts and would love to see you to continue to post your beautiful positive expression of the individuated creator of ALL THAT IS that you truly are, I AM.

And as for ego....Expressing Gods Oneness....keep giving in to it sunshine.

With LOVE.

yinon

24-04-2007, 01:38 PM

Yinon, have you experienced or are you presently experiencing this illuminated state? ( I won't say 'enlightened' because that word has more positive connotations and I am yet to be convinced that illumination is an entirely useful and healthy thing)....

I worked out on my capacity to truly love in the past. That's all. I am not enlightened.

I appreciate this part of one of your post. They see things that were previously invisible or they have hallucinations...That's why many of them transformed stories. Tha't why they fatasize on what's not there. They live in a false reality, one created to stay in power.

The shaman of the past became the techno-shaman of today. They all have been recruited to serve the elite purpose. THeir " False SHE" channeled entities and has relied on spirit guides. SHEAT! They are first warriors.They don't know what's true love because they are obsessing on entities outside themselves. I see now why one of their guy is in jail. He has been recruited to fulfill their agenda. I've met few of them in the past. They cannot truly love. They want to control. Many secret things are going on when they are around.

I am not saying your way is wrong. I am saying it is not right for me. Big difference. So please stop saying that others are doing nothing because they do not wish to do it your way. We are all concerned; otherwise we would not be here talking about it

Right what's the best way to educate people? We know how they have infiltrated every organizations and control information. They won't let you achieve your goal if you don't support them. Anyway, SHE faced her wall. Fair exchange is a simple natural law to not bypass and she did.

Let it be!

edelweiss pirate

24-04-2007, 04:19 PM

You sound like you've met the mystery muppets too Yinon...

They're odd people, sad most of the time, they do a lot of espionage activities (not really James Bond, more Like Brooke Bond, hiding in bars and listening to people's conversations) but they do have the unnerving habit of reading your mind...

This was one of the carrots that I dangled to myself, I thought that I really had to learn to read people's minds... If these guys can do it then I want to join...

The enlightenment sounds good but the reality is awful, more like a curse than a gift... Imagine being perpetually plagued by people's thoughts... I think your love of humanity would soon dry up, maybe that's why these guys don't seem to have any...

Have you met the guys Yinon, how? Where you recruited to join em?

yinon

24-04-2007, 09:00 PM

Have you met the guys Yinon, how? Where you recruited to join em?

It's not that important the way I have been in contact with them. I have met few of them. Right, they tried to recruit me. Yes you can be impress for a while but generally speaking, people who dance with them are really suffering. They use the telepathy carrot to attract them but many are in bad position (sexual, drug, identity issues) .They are "insane or unbalance" and think that they are enlightened because they developped their telepatic power. Maybe that's why the illuminies became so powerful. They work with fragile beings. Yes they are strong with telepathy but they are often missing the essential of the message. A thought is not who we truly are, only a part of the whole in space and time. They are strategic. They will share only few thoughts in keeping the essential for them . In acting like this they can manipulate informations and transform the truth.

They have a big ego because they developped their spiritual powers

Again they are ignorant about the concept of true humility

yinon

25-04-2007, 02:47 PM

All intelligence technique require ruthlesness, duplicity. and absolute integrity. No these are not contradictions in terms. If you are using influence technologies correctly, you can and will achieve your objective by the manipulation of others

Yes. Numerous websites use this technic
As GURUS too

Recognize what you are doing:we do. If the manipulation is for the eventual benefit of these others as well as yourself, then you are adhering to the warrior ethic.

How can you achieve it? Impossible to achieve. It's really hard to not protect your siblings. Americans don't care about others nations dying for their own excess

How can you condemn nations who are now dying and work for their survival?How can you condemn them? Are they warrior or survivor?

Gosh they are sick. But first of all they are self-centered.

All these phenomena involve using the mind and/or some field of the body to affect others minds and inanimate objects, sometimes at a distance without the intervention of conventional mechanism such as electronics or tools

It explains all. They control folks around and can impact the linear time. It is so sad to look at them operate as if we don't see everything.

Few tears

wizard

25-04-2007, 03:09 PM

Dear oh dear. None of us here are involved in trying to educate the public!! how do you know norseman. I myself have been campaignign on a regular basis for the last two years on many issues, including: Vegetarianism/veganism, fur farming and the selling of fur for fashion, vivisection, hunting, culling, horse and dog racing, nulear power, weapons of mass destruction, war, etc. To make such a sweeping gesture is to say the least... immature.

auron

25-04-2007, 03:12 PM

Nice one Wizard! By the way? is that really you in your avatar? If so, cool!! :D

wizard

25-04-2007, 03:14 PM

Nice one Wizard! By the way? is that really you in your avatar? If so, cool!! :D

Lol:D No afraid not. would be cool though, what an afro eh? That is Rudy a character from one of the best comedies ever called............ The Mighty Boosh. Check it out it is brilliant. :D

wizard

25-04-2007, 03:17 PM

Nice one Wizard! By the way? is that really you in your avatar? If so, cool!! :D

Lol:D No afraid not. would be cool though, what an afro eh? That is Rudy a character from one of the best comedies ever; called............ The Mighty Boosh. Check it out it is brilliant. :D

auron

25-04-2007, 03:18 PM

Damn! I was hoping it was lol:p Yeah, i'll definitely be checking that film out now! Keep up with the campaigning man!

Auron :)

wizard

25-04-2007, 03:23 PM

I will do mate.Was in Manchester last year with Greenpeace at the climate clinic which coincided with the labour party conference. By the way it"s a BBC comedy series not a film. Though i wouldn"t be surprised to see a feature film in the future.

yinon

25-04-2007, 04:02 PM

I won't educate only between two ice cream cones. I am opening an ice cream store in Groenland

With the climate change I'll make a lot of money and will be the first one in the new establishment of the new world to come.

In this New wolrld to come all is reverse
The last are the first
The south pole becomes The old north
China will be capitalist
Men are submit
More money you earn and less power you have
Water is the new gold
Jews become the New africans
The pope immigrate in Bangladesh to experiment poverty

Gtg

auron

25-04-2007, 04:06 PM

By the way it"s a BBC comedy series not a film.

Ah! I see. I've not watched tv for nearly 7 months now, so i wouldn't know!

:)

wizard

25-04-2007, 04:08 PM

Ah! I see. I've not watched tv for nearly 7 months now, so i wouldn't know!

:)

Don"t blame you it"s mostly shit and mindnumbingly dull. This programme was an exception though. That and Doctor Who :cool:

yinon

26-04-2007, 01:27 PM

To begin on the path of influence, you must envision where you have to go or what you need to accomplish

You are right on Edeiweis.

THEY want all to have a masonic consciousness
Gift from God is the ultimate model with the FALSE SHE(???) Gosh , we are in big sheat

You then develop a plan, sketch a rational road map for it's execution and see it through to fruition

They are now promoting transexuality around here and they have introduced the concept of shamanism on the national news

They do watever they can to keep me apart from the Masonic family.

Look how they operate!

THEIR FALSE HE (Gift from god???? with sexual issues) and THEIR FALSE SHE (with AIDS and sexual abuse) are the forefront to achieve the luciferian plan. They target a bad girl who try to let truth shines.(The whore, then they can repress sexuality) She becomes the scapegoat and they can shine. They influence many people around her with techno shamanic tools and through the ether from a far. They even want the death of people who obstruct their plan. But they want the TRIO alive to maintain the polarity game on earth

Most of us are aware that we're subjected to the art of influence every day.Hidden agendas , subterfuges, and ploys are part of the art. Influence technology is a serious and potentially deadly game

Right

They promote polarity through political parties (The right and the left) and in the spiritual world (The good and the BAD) to maintain our warrior spirit. They can save us all and lead the new millenium to come.

It's the end of the Masonic power

Many of them will have to look for a new job.

yinon

26-04-2007, 01:38 PM

If the whore wants to educate : They gonna destroy her image eventually

If the whore joins the masonic family : She accepts their plan

If the whore stays alone: They gonna destroy her anyway

The only way to get out of there is to destroy the old power and cut the plan of the OLD club boy - All suckers

yinon

26-04-2007, 01:49 PM

IT'S THE END OF THE MASONIC EMPIRE!!!

BRAVO

edelweiss pirate

26-04-2007, 03:05 PM

It's not that important the way I have been in contact with them. I have met few of them. Right, they tried to recruit me. Yes you can be impress for a while but generally speaking, people who dance with them are really suffering. They use the telepathy carrot to attract them but many are in bad position (sexual, drug, identity issues) .They are "insane or unbalance" and think that they are enlightened because they developped their telepatic power. Maybe that's why the illuminies became so powerful. They work with fragile beings. Yes they are strong with telepathy but they are often missing the essential of the message. A thought is not who we truly are, only a part of the whole in space and time. They are strategic. They will share only few thoughts in keeping the essential for them . In acting like this they can manipulate informations and transform the truth.

They have a big ego because they developped their spiritual powers

Again they are ignorant about the concept of true humility

SNAP!!! Wow, sounds like we've been to the same hole in the ground Yinon...

When you mention 'whore' in your previous post I think that will scare people off and make them think you are mysoginistic...

Sadly, you are right about illuminati women.. In my experience they will all use their body if they are told to... I hate to say it but if you are in the illuminati then your opinion of women and humanity really goes down the pan... because your colleagues cannot be trusted and they are always trying to trip you up and fuck you over... I had an illumie girlfriend who nearly managed to break my heart...

Love is total control and these sick peeps know it... Loadsa celebs and politicians have MK'd wives and I bet half of them don't even know it... First loyalty to the secret society, love takes second place.. Man! Imagine living like that! We really are the lucky ones y'know...

Anyway one girl I knew would routinely visit Turkey to get a dose of syphalis, she would then return to Europe and share it out among her mason friends... She was actually called Syph, by her friends...

BTW they refer to the system as 'the tower of power'... and they are terrified of it... as long as they behave themselves and do as they are told they will be ok, but if they start going off the programme their life soon becomes hell... we're talking anything from credit card fraud to car accidents..

Peeps like us have noting to fear, they can really only pick on their own... they don't have authority to attack innocent goodly folks like us...

Nutters the lot of them, mental illness is one thing but when it's running the world... Fuck!

yinon

26-04-2007, 03:15 PM

About The "False He" (their false Jesus)
I figure that the guy have been brainwashed through experimentations or have been caught in a plan without knowing what was the true game. (As many spiritual warriors by the way). That's why I protect him like he has done since almost 10 years now, knowing what was the real game. We have been connected since childhood through OBE. (many prooves)

The "False SHE" is manipulate through techno tools and she is obsessing on the guy. She lives in a world of fantasies and imagine things who are not there. (Their Virgin with Aids and psychic powers) He finds her ugly but she accepts to be destroy in front of all.

They won't reverse the roles - Not this time

The same old story with new elements.

PATHETIC! You know who I am now

edelweiss pirate

26-04-2007, 03:22 PM

You're right about the false Jesus thing...

I'm kind of embarrassed to admit that this was what was going through my head when I was away with the fairies...only thing is the fairies were real!

Since it's a massive archetype and even Hollywood is in on it then it's probably very a common delusion amongst schizo-gnsotic mason nuts.

Still, when you start performing miracles is it still a delusion?

tru3

26-04-2007, 03:38 PM

forgive me for not going through all the responses. i'm playing catchup, and time is short.

norseman,

i applaud you for going back and "finishing what you started".

check back with us when you have actually manifested change in your world. maybe we can all learn something.

i welcome you to the forum. those of us who have been here for a while have read the same kind of confrontational rhetoric from new members, only to have them fade back into the woodwork within a few weeks. i hope you're not one. i'm sure you mean well and want to "wake us all up", but many times one catches more bees with honey than vinegar (if there are any bees left to catch...).

change always starts from within, imv. "outside in" never works, never will.

imo, the more attention we give to their games, the more real they become. that's not bullshit, that's quantum mechanics. the observer influences the observation. this occurs in the individual, but also in the collective unconscious, where the order of magnitude of the thoughtwave is thousands of times greater. this is where the real change must occur; all things hidden, including collective projection and displacement must come to light. otherwise, there will continue to be an "invisible third hand" choking the Life out of humanity.

"know thyself" continues to be the prime directive, imv. everthing else is a distraction, an avoidance of true responsibility. there is no politcal solution. the only thing i can change is located somewhere between the top of my skull and my sternum. as i become less fearful, my world becomes less fearful.

if you don't believe me, read "man's search for meaning" by victor frankl. or, watch "the nature of evil", by micheal tsarion.

what we're doing on this forum is right on the masthead: "exposing the dreamworld we believe to be real." there's nothing wrong with bashing sacred cows, because we all live in a version of the dreamworld.

expose the dreamworld. it's simple; the more people who simply disengage their attention from the "system", from the illusion of fear, the sorcery of the financial system, the old racial/religious grudges, the glamour of war, the need for security, the illusion that we are not enough, right here, right now, the weaker the system becomes.

but resisting it only strengthens it. energy follows attention. again, not new-age bullshit, just energy dynamics.

see the problem, but don't be the problem. just my opinion.

yinon

26-04-2007, 05:56 PM

BTW they refer to the system as 'the tower of power'... and they are terrified of it... as long as they behave themselves and do as they are told they will be ok, but if they start going off the programme their life soon becomes hell... we're talking anything from credit card fraud to car accidents..

Lol
I know what you are talking about. I don't care anymore about the money they stole to our family.

This world is gonna blow if they continue their game

They have few things to learn from us . Courage to follow our heart

A lot of people know the truth and act to kick their ass out of here

They are done man!

No more masonic power

Really! Better to behave !

yinon

26-04-2007, 06:01 PM

We can easily destroy the reputation of My kid's school if they continue!!!!

.

edelweiss pirate

26-04-2007, 06:05 PM

Really really?

Speak up... spill the beans... That's how I broke the programming, just by blabbing about all their shit on the old icke forum...

The truth WILL set you free.

Alex Jones just said:

"I've got so many info-bombs I'm gonna drop on the NWO's head.."

INFO BOMBS!

How about that as our website name?

yinon

26-04-2007, 06:36 PM

I have met their false Jesus in the past weeks. I confronted them after my passage with what I noted. They are on my back since that moment.

They are also on my kids back since a while

I have a lot of informations to kick the new director out if he continues to harass them. Anyway I wanted to change their school. It's done but they will hear about us if they dont change track

My ex-hubby lost almost one million dollars with fews friends. The guy behind the fraud worked in Washington many years ago. (weird) In the past months the same guy stole 4 millions to another guy in another city.

I am going through a divorce now and they all try to destroy what I am building
(weird) and they are manipulate., for sure

Right when you disagree with them your life becomes hell

But all depends on the way you perceive things.

edelweiss pirate

26-04-2007, 06:50 PM

Wow! Is there just one false Jesus or are there many?

I think there are many 'new Jesus's out there... or new messiahs or super x-men or whatever...

Only this time they're not going to fall for no sacrifice suicide doctrine...

They're gonna kick satan inc.'s ass.

You sound like you know your stuff Yinon... What you need (if you don't already have it of course) is a big fat dose of AUTHORITY!

When you realise that they are trying to trick us all into giving away our authority and fearing them, you realise that they are working very very hard to create an illusion of our powrlessness, they must therefore be doing this because we are in fact very powerful.....

The funny thing is those guys at the higher levels, you could just blow 'em over... they feed only on your fear, if you are fearless and have authority they can't even look you in the eye...

They're like sheets blowing in the wind..

So the anti-christ... what's he like?

yinon

26-04-2007, 08:19 PM

The funny thing is those guys at the higher levels, you could just blow 'em over... they feed only on your fear, if you are fearless and have authority they can't even look you in the eye...

LOL

Oh! I see. They have erection's weakness and cannot face the light. Yes I have met one of them when I was with the anti-Christ

The anti-christ has a beautiful smile... I figure a nice ass too but he wears long vest

I have already met few new false JESUS...they are all nice in their personal way

For the AUTHOR ITY, The Dic is already OUT and he doesn't know it yet!

One step at a time!

love

yinon

26-04-2007, 08:44 PM

My kids are strong

I am their mother. They see what's going on. Really! I respect them . They just don't let stupid folks around behave as ass hole.

One of illuminies initiation is pedophily...In my kid's school there is a guy who doesn't like bright kids cauze he is sexually repress since many life times. That's why they attack kids. For that reason the guy is mad when a clever kids answer him. Maybe he is an old frustrated JESUIT. Who knows?

That's enough. Our kids are our planetary future. Don't touch them!

In the high spheres of power they abuse of children

In the criminal circle they rape and kill.

Where are you in all this?

I have enough of that shittt

Do you?

yinon

27-04-2007, 12:49 AM

Still, when you start performing miracles is it still a delusion?

There is no miracle. I had a dream. That's all. I believed in it. I was ready to pay the price. It's done. Nothing for Holly-wood here who is looking for a new messiah.

The less money you have - The more powerful you are in the next world to come

They are so far away behind us gang (wink) I don't buy their lies. If they are making money , great for them. I know one thing. They are unhappy and most of them don't know it. A big difference between us! I dance easily between happiness and sadness, No drama even if my life can be hard sometimes. I let it go and ask after awhile what's next?

The False SHE's gonna play THE HOLLYWOOD STAR! After the good weather always comes the storm....She'll learn. Maybe she is slower than us but she'll eventually grasp what is so obvious. (wink)

Love

yinon

27-04-2007, 01:58 AM

imo, the more attention we give to their games, the more real they become. that's not bullshit, that's quantum mechanics. the observer influences the observation. this occurs in the individual, but also in the collective unconscious, where the order of magnitude of the thoughtwave is thousands of times greater. this is where the real change must occur; all things hidden, including collective projection and displacement must come to light. otherwise, there will continue to be an "invisible third hand" choking the Life out of humanity.

I agree Tru3 but sometimes we all need to spill it out . There is no place and no one with who we can share about it. They think we are crazy

"know thyself" continues to be the prime directive, imv. everthing else is a distraction, an avoidance of true responsibility. there is no politcal solution. the only thing i can change is located somewhere between the top of my skull and my sternum. as i become less fearful, my world becomes less fearful.

Yes. No fears and many dreams are coming true

amyg

27-04-2007, 12:03 PM

This is my first post here.

I just have to say that most of you on here and the old icke forum are full of crap.

You come to places like this and complain and pretend you have more insight than others and say how you wish the sheeple would wake up but yet you all really do NOTHING!!!

How many of you actively try and educate people out there ie through leaflets, intellectual groups or even public speaking? None of you. No one has formed a group or any form mechanism to educate THE MASSES - when I was in London last I did not see anyone on Hyde Park Corner sounding off about what is really going on.

Many of you claim to try and convince others of what is going on but just sounding off to your mum or spouse as they struggle to watch Eastenders does not count!!!

Guys, I am not trying to get anyones backs up but please sit back and take a good long look at what I have said.

In the UK alone Mr Blair stands to sell you all down the river by signing an EU constitution (but it is not the constitution if you ask him!!) and thus politically entrenching the entire UK into a prerequisite European Superstate but HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING OR STAND UP TO BE COUNTED??? None!!!! That is but one example where NO ONE stands up to be counted -NONE OF YOU!!!

Food for thought - think it over and lets discuss matters properly and before anyone says "well what have you done!!!" well, I have made you think over and above simply logging on the net and making a career out of complaining anonomously to like minded individuals - preaching to the converted is a waste of time!!!

The Norseman.

Ps English is not my first language. Icelandic is.

I do not post here that much as some people on here are abit strange.

I find by reading alot of the posts on here that if you think in diffrent ways than the members on here you will get banned. "What?" *I hear you shout!
"But there truth seekers!" *You scream!

The members on here are really good its just the management that are the problem on here.

Sorry to drible on you lol

yinon

27-04-2007, 03:04 PM

I know who is tapping my home. I call him the pinky baby. He is part of the old lawyer club here with 3 BMW, 4 mercedes. Since a while he looks at me really weird. His wife too. There is dishonnest folks everywhere.

Lol

Maybe we can find a scandal to stop him! (Mistress, sexual harassment, sexual abuse ???) We can operate the way they do or we just let them do because we have nothing to hide.

I am in connection with few powerful beings.

Many things I am going through in my life are reported on tv, and used in movie.... We must laugh ! They make money. I don't prostitute myself. Who feels better? Right there is no sin but unhapiness exists. When I look at me in the miror I say gosh poor them.

Good day

edelweiss pirate

27-04-2007, 03:07 PM

tru3

27-04-2007, 06:11 PM

I don't know what you're talking about AmyG.. Do you?

From what I see you get banned for posting a picture of a guy with something up his arse that shouldn't be there... You get banned for going loopy and swearing and insulting everyone, and finally you get banned for being a self confessed masonic troll who once he was rumbled and broke down and confessed all, (see my sig) started trying to convince us that Icke was actually a mason and even made a dodgy photoshopped picture of Icke as a Mason...

Mods are doing a great job I reckon... You obviously haven't been here since the start, you should have seen the shit they had to put up with.

If you want an unmoderated forum expect it to go the same way as the sadly missed davidickeforum.com.... That's just the way it goes...

seriously. the old forum makes this one look like an english country garden.

i've been spanked here once or twice meself, and i'm still standing :)

i'm not one for much censorship, but jeez, we've all got to live together too. personal responsibility goes a long way to solve a lot of problems, imv. speaking from the "I" helps, as well.

compare these two statements:

"you're all a sorry lot of mindless sheep", vs.

"i get frustrated when i read postings that seem mindless to me".

see the difference? one gets the point across without offending anyone, because anything that comes out of my mouth (or my keyboard) is about me, anyway.

in love and service. :)

amyg

29-04-2007, 07:45 AM

seriously. the old forum makes this one look like an english country garden.

i've been spanked here once or twice meself, and i'm still standing :)

i'm not one for much censorship, but jeez, we've all got to live together too. personal responsibility goes a long way to solve a lot of problems, imv. speaking from the "I" helps, as well.

compare these two statements:

"you're all a sorry lot of mindless sheep", vs.

"i get frustrated when i read postings that seem mindless to me".

see the difference? one gets the point across without offending anyone, because anything that comes out of my mouth (or my keyboard) is about me, anyway.

in love and service. :)

Your right! Good post! I didn't even finish reading the "pirates" post as he’s boring! Every post he rights is banning the troll drum. I think they need to ban him lol, your right!!

tru3

29-04-2007, 08:10 AM

Your right! Good post! I didn't even finish reading the "pirates" post as he’s boring! Every post he rights is banning the troll drum. I think they need to ban him lol, your right!!

oh, e.p. is a good egg, once you get to know him. um, he means well, right e.p??:o

oneofmany

29-04-2007, 11:44 AM

I do not post here that much as some people on here are abit strange.

I find by reading alot of the posts on here that if you think in diffrent ways than the members on here you will get banned. "What?" *I hear you shout!
"But there truth seekers!" *You scream!

The members on here are really good its just the management that are the problem on here.

Sorry to drible on you lolWhat a load of shit!!! With 10 posts to your name, how do you know what goes on on this forum? Dribble is right. If you talk crap about other people or insult people, you will get banned, but that is to be expected. As for people being a bit strange, You would only think that if you had your own idiosyncrasies moulded by the powers that be. if you find people here strange, why post here?

oneofmany

29-04-2007, 11:47 AM

Your right! Good post! I didn't even finish reading the "pirates" post as he’s boring! Every post he rights is banning the troll drum. I think they need to ban him lol, your right!!At least he contributes to the discussion. What do you do to contribute to all of this except rubbish people?

i_am

29-04-2007, 12:51 PM

Boy is the norseman ever going to be pissed off if he comes back. He was quite pedantic about people going off topic and hi-jacking his thread :D :D :D

pollock

29-04-2007, 12:56 PM

lol:)
F

thirdwave

29-04-2007, 04:43 PM

All shapes and sizes ... if you dont like someone then you dont have to chat with them ...

likewise anyone who does not like this forum or what it is all about can use the "dont come here function"

is this thread really getting anywhere?

If anyone has any ideas to help make the forum better please PM a mod... likewise if you think something is wrong with it PM us....