Still not convinced

[tiddles]

Having read a lot about, and watched all the documentaries about 9/11, i'm yet to be convinced it was an inside job.

The only thing we know for certain is Condoleezza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld lied under oath at the 9/11 commission when they said they had no forewarning of impending terrorist attacks. The fact that they lied is absolutely indisputable. You could say if they were lying then, what else are they lying about, but this is not evidence that they were actually involved in orchestrating the attacks. A more likely explanation is, they were trying to hide their incompetence. The other thing we know for certain is that the American government used the attacks to its advantage.

The collapse of WTC7 is often given as proof of an inside job. The problem is, we know WTC7 was significantly damaged by the collapse of the twin towers. The damage could have been enough to make WTC7 fall, making this evidence of an 'inside job' tenuous at best.

The truth is, there is no absolutely solid, definitive evidence that 9/11 was an inside job. All there is is conjecture and circumstantial evidence.

[mercuryrapids]

WTC7 was significantly damaged on its SW side up to about the 18th floor. If this damage was the reason for it's collapse, the building should have collapsed starting at the site of most damage. It didn't, it fell straight down.

As for incompetence, if we go that route, then why has nobody been charged and convicted of gross incopetence resulting in the deaths of 3000 people?

NORAD failed to act when it knew at least four aircraft were significantly off-course and had probably been hijacked - incompetence?

When repeatedly told that a hijacked airliner was heading towards Washington DC, Vice-President Dick Cheney failed to act - incompetence?

When fighters were eventually scrambled, they headed out over the Atlantic and not towards the hijacked airliners - incompetence?

[coshh]

IMHO it was only an inside job in the sense that the US government trained the attackers.

[truthseeker1980]

How about the fact that the BBC reported WTC7 had collpased 15 minutes before it did, whilst it was still standing in the window behind the reporter.

[number 6]

Having read a lot about, and watched all the documentaries about 9/11, i'm yet to be convinced it was an inside job.

Read "The Terror Conspiracy" by Jim Marrs

[cruise4]

Bullshit!

[ronisron]

Having read a lot about, and watched all the documentaries about 9/11, i'm yet to be convinced it was an inside job.

The only thing we know for certain is Condoleezza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld lied under oath at the 9/11 commission when they said they had no forewarning of impending terrorist attacks. The fact that they lied is absolutely indisputable. You could say if they were lying then, what else are they lying about, but this is not evidence that they were actually involved in orchestrating the attacks. A more likely explanation is, they were trying to hide their incompetence. The other thing we know for certain is that the American government used the attacks to its advantage.

The collapse of WTC7 is often given as proof of an inside job. The problem is, we know WTC7 was significantly damaged by the collapse of the twin towers. The damage could have been enough to make WTC7 fall, making this evidence of an 'inside job' tenuous at best.

The truth is, there is no absolutely solid, definitive evidence that 9/11 was an inside job. All there is is conjecture and circumstantial evidence.

Those buildings fell straight down into their own footprints in free fall speed. 10 seconds. No resistance whatsoever.
It doesn't take much scrutiny. People were standing in the openings where there was supposedly heat that was intense enough to melt/weaken steel. Multiple explosions that triggered the collapse. The "pancake theory" doesn't come close to accounting for the speed at which the buildings fell, or for the complete collapse of the core beams. There's not going to be a FOX News expose on this anytime soon, and I suggest you watch 9/11 Revisited if you haven't already. I'm WAY past "Well, I'm not sure about this conspiracy stuff..." myself.

Bush also said he saw the first crash on TV before entering the classroom. No one did, it wasn't televised anywhere. After being told of the second, he stayed in the classroom, no evacuation. No one took the President to a safe location. Cheney, a civilian, was commanding NORAD that morning. First time a civilian ever commanded NORAD, and it just so happened that they were running drills that morning involving hijacked airliners. War games. That must have taken a hell of a lot of inside knowledge and careful execution on the part of 19 hijackers, commanded by a boogeyman in a cave, and armed with only boxcutters. Boxcutters.... try to hold up a convenience store with a boxcutter, let alone an airliner. Ridiculous. None of these guys had tickets or appear on any flight manifests, either. The Commission was a farce, and didn't even mention WTC 7. Fire does not weaken steel, if it did, gas ovens would melt and fall apart. All of those bulidings are built primarily of concrete and steel, and fireproof building standards. No buildings have ever collapsed like that from fire, only the WTC's, only on 9/11. All firsts.

Not to mention the Pentagon, where a plane crash left no visible wreckage anywhere, and supposedly vaporized on impact. The lawn is pristine, and this "vaporized" plane punched a 12' in diameter hole through 5 rings while leaving the landing gear in the courtyard. The impact crater left by Flight 93 also produced no wreckage, luggage, or bodies.... AND the hoie was there at least as far back as 1994 according to aerial views CONFIRMED to be genuine by the USGS.

No evidence?? Believe what you want, but you have to understand,most people are beyond debating this with you at this time.

[revelations]

With all the proof and evidence that is available on 9/11, if you are not convinced now then you never will be. :rolleyes:
Having read a lot about, and watched all the documentaries about 9/11, i'm yet to be convinced it was an inside job.

The only thing we know for certain is Condoleezza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld lied under oath at the 9/11 commission when they said they had no forewarning of impending terrorist attacks. The fact that they lied is absolutely indisputable. You could say if they were lying then, what else are they lying about, but this is not evidence that they were actually involved in orchestrating the attacks. A more likely explanation is, they were trying to hide their incompetence. The other thing we know for certain is that the American government used the attacks to its advantage.

The collapse of WTC7 is often given as proof of an inside job. The problem is, we know WTC7 was significantly damaged by the collapse of the twin towers. The damage could have been enough to make WTC7 fall, making this evidence of an 'inside job' tenuous at best.

The truth is, there is no absolutely solid, definitive evidence that 9/11 was an inside job. All there is is conjecture and circumstantial evidence.

[pac3lli]

People are still debating the kennedy assasination conspiracy theories 45 years later. You have people focusing on the magic bullet and the grassy knoll, the limo driver, and the individuals 'behind' it, while they have completely neglected the implemented solutions.

Somehow I think 9/11 will become a similar issue. Planes, no planes, thermite, directed energy weapon, eyewitnesses, new videos, doctored videos, passengers v. no passengers. I see a pattern forming.

If we continue to focus exclusively on the details, we may end up blind to the solutions. 9/11 is still a hot issue in the US, and anyone who publically questions it is immediately deemed unpatriotic and outcast as a liar. Will we still be debating these details in 45 years, and allow the globalists to take advantage of our distraction?

[lightgiver]

you must be suffering from left brain and right brain syndrome tiddles:rolleyes:

why did no other buildings collapse in the same way as the ones mentioned:rolleyes:

i think you are just trying to convince your self like the majority of the public,

that no one could pull off such a heinous CRIME:eek:

Powerful people walk on crooked legs;)

and have done since year dot;)

[number 6]

Bullshit!


What is?
Are you referring to the book I referenced?

[h2pogo]

can you share any evidence that building 7 or any steel frame skyscraper can fall like that.
I would love to hear a feasable explanation.
dont quote popular mechanics as i dont belive it to be a sound argument.

[cruise4]

No, the read a lot and not convinced part from the OP.

Some people just like to start controversy for the sake of controversy and so cloak such infantile behaviour in such statement's. It's about time they were called on it.

[number 6]

No, the read a lot and not convinced part from the OP.

Some people just like to start controversy for the sake of controversy and so cloak such infantile behaviour in such statement's. It's about time they were called on it.

I apologise and I agree.

[cruise4]

No need to apologise... I should have made it clearer :)

[lightgiver]

and another thing why as 911 been brushed under the carpet,
LITERALLY:eek:
NO PRESERVATION OF CRIME SCENE,
and it wasn't exactly a SMALL CRIME was it now:rolleyes:
and the pentagon:rolleyes:

COME ON WAKE UP:eek::rolleyes:

INSIDE JOB,how many FACTS does one need:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[lost_in_translation]

People are still debating the kennedy assasination conspiracy theories 45 years later. You have people focusing on the magic bullet and the grassy knoll, the limo driver, and the individuals 'behind' it, while they have completely neglected the implemented solutions.

Somehow I think 9/11 will become a similar issue. Planes, no planes, thermite, directed energy weapon, eyewitnesses, new videos, doctored videos, passengers v. no passengers. I see a pattern forming.

If we continue to focus exclusively on the details, we may end up blind to the solutions. 9/11 is still a hot issue in the US, and anyone who publically questions it is immediately deemed unpatriotic and outcast as a liar. Will we still be debating these details in 45 years, and allow the globalists to take advantage of our distraction?

I agree. there is a problem with the "conspiracy community" we are allowing the manipulators to over inject us with knowledge. some of it good but for the most part it confuses people we havnt been able to get our word out . i see smart people in this forum, good hearted people who just want the best for sociaty. but when we use our time chasing the little things we miss the bigger picture. they Divide and conquer us. keep us debating the little things while they pull the strings.evidence is not going to make a change. we can throw out evidence until we are blue in the face and we have. when are "WE" going to make a stand and not just be crazy people who are laughed at for chasing crop circles.we need to march on the capitol. stop paying taxes. stop voting. stop playing into everything which is wrong with this world.
Soldiers need to make a stand. we as soldiers are here to" Defend the constitution from ALL ENEMIES FORIEN AND DOMENSTIC. but we just follow the orders from the ones who are fucking up this world.
until we make a stand and do something besides typing and posting links to threads we are just part of the problem

[john white]

You dont have to be convinced that 9/11 was an inside job:

Some of the key 9/11 Truth activists arnt convinced of that

All you have to be is reasonably convinced the official story of 9/11 doesnt add up and ommits a vast amount of facts and established events in order to try and hold itself together: and to therefore WANT the Truth!

[kingmonkey]

People are still debating the kennedy assasination conspiracy theories 45 years later. You have people focusing on the magic bullet and the grassy knoll, the limo driver, and the individuals 'behind' it, while they have completely neglected the implemented solutions.

Somehow I think 9/11 will become a similar issue. Planes, no planes, thermite, directed energy weapon, eyewitnesses, new videos, doctored videos, passengers v. no passengers. I see a pattern forming.

If we continue to focus exclusively on the details, we may end up blind to the solutions. 9/11 is still a hot issue in the US, and anyone who publically questions it is immediately deemed unpatriotic and outcast as a liar. Will we still be debating these details in 45 years, and allow the globalists to take advantage of our distraction?

Exactly.All the time wasted arguing over opposing theories and bits of evidence about "how" are only serving the perpetrators, but no one wants to know, most people are more interested in arguing the toss over molten metal, planes/no planes etc. The evidence is gone, destroyed.

You're right, in 45 years people will still be studying the trees and misunderstanding how the forest has become what it is.

[keystone]

Snip

The problem is, we know WTC7 was significantly damaged by the collapse of the twin towers. The damage could have been enough to make WTC7 fall ...........................

Snip




So just ignore the inside job bit for a moment and consider this in relation to WTC7:

Can you explain how it is that 5 and 6 were significantly damaged by the collapse BUT did not themselves collapse but 7 did although the buildings either side of 7 (yellow arrows) show no damage nor did they collapse?

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/wokensheep/342999d9.jpg

[keystone]

You dont have to be convinced that 9/11 was an inside job:

Some of the key 9/11 Truth activists arnt convinced of that

All you have to be is reasonably convinced the official story of 9/11 doesnt add up and ommits a vast amount of facts and established events in order to try and hold itself together: and to therefore WANT the Truth!

Yup - spot on.

[christophera]

Having read a lot about, and watched all the documentaries about 9/11, i'm yet to be convinced it was an inside job.

The only thing we know for certain is Condoleezza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld lied under oath at the 9/11 commission when they said they had no forewarning of impending terrorist attacks.

The facts you mention are damming, but as you say nothing we can do anything with so therefore unconvincing.

What if FEMA misrepresented the towers design to NIST and the world? Would that invaildate the collapse analysis?

Consider; these 5 factors MUST be explained, because they actually happened.

free fall (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
total pulverization (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg)
superfine, heated particulate (http://wmdatthewtc.com/pyroclastic_like_flow.htm)
smooth, square cut column ends x the 1,000's (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/shearedboxcolumns.gif)
heavy steel assemblies heaved hundreds of feet (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1plumecascade.jpg)

Have you seen this video? It shows using images from 9-11 as the towers structure is being bared at various times, that FEMA seriously misrepresented the towers design.

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition I (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6240504594075547308&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

Twin Tower Deception and Demolition II (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5255701680091399090&q=twin+towers+deception+and+demolition&total=15&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1)

[astro zombie]

Come on let's get real. I always find it weird that somebody can be on David Icke's forum and then post something like "i'm not convinced 9/11 was an inside job." What's the point in posting evidence or arguing with this? It's just a waste of time and effort. Some people will never be convinced no matter what.

[ajaydean]

the weight of evidence is atonishing,too much to go into so i will use an illustration.....demolition experts are overpaid and unnesessary,three towers randomly fall into their own footprint. ask any demolition expert if this is remotely possible, then tell the over100 eye and ear witnessess that they miss heard the multiple explosions...good luck

[upsetbrit]

Earlier today, i posted a comment on yahoo regarding David Grays music being used for torture in Guantanamo.
I'd like to paste it here if i may. It seems quite appropriate.

Why is it that the choice of music is a news issue? Why is it even being discussed?

The real issue is, why are the US even torturing anyone at all?
Just do a video search for "Rumsfeld shot down" and you'll find one of the many smoking guns behind the real truth of the war on terror.

So many pro-war Americans accuse those of questioning the US government of being anti-patriotic... so what does that say about what their idea of being an American really is?

Obviously not peace, freedom and democracy!

Bush is on record... actual video evidence, saying that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11... yet the children of that sovereign nation are still suffering. Still having to cope with a lack of electricity, food, water and in many cases, limbs and parents.

I'm disgusted to call myself British. What a cloud of shame i am forced to carry while my soul is crying for the suffering of the innocent.

Iraq had WMD's? Maybe once. But where did they come from? Try the US government in the 1980's! Remember the baby formula factory that was bombed, claimed by US intelligence to be a weapons factory? Testimonies of Iraqis prove that Saddam got rid of any remaining WMD's... or is the word of Iraqis not good enough? What makes anyone in the West think that their word is more important than that of an Iraqi? If not, remember the media spouting in the newspapers before the invasion, about convoys of WMD's being moved from Iraq to Syria? Oh yes, now you do! So you see... Iraq got rid of them either way. Ask the UN inspectors too. They found nothing in all the years of searching.

All those lies, all those dead Iraqis, Afghanis, Americans, British and other coalition troops. For what?
For a bent businessmans insurance deal and a good excuse to steal Iraqi oil and secure a pipeline through Afghanistan. Not just that though; a greater plan... a New World Order, where the population is microchipped, money is obsolete, rights are non-existent and if you question authority, your chip is turned off.
Look in the media for the news pieces on school uniforms having microchips embedded in them. Look for soldiers having microchips. Look at the real ID act in the US and the national ID in the UK. Look at the patriot acts and the other plethora of "anti-terror" laws such as "stop and search" in the UK... where civilians are targeted by police to be searched in the street. Guilty until proven innocent.
Oh, it's for our security? Then why then, even after 9/11 and 7/7, the borders are operating on a business-as-usual basis, with hundreds of thousands of potential enemies pouring through?

For Gods sake people, wake up.

[shodan]

Earlier today, i posted a comment on yahoo regarding David Grays music being used for torture in Guantanamo.
I'd like to paste it here if i may. It seems quite appropriate.


Quote:
Why is it that the choice of music is a news issue? Why is it even being discussed?

The real issue is, why are the US even torturing anyone at all?
Just do a video search for "Rumsfeld shot down" and you'll find one of the many smoking guns behind the real truth of the war on terror.

So many pro-war Americans accuse those of questioning the US government of being anti-patriotic... so what does that say about what their idea of being an American really is?

Obviously not peace, freedom and democracy!

Bush is on record... actual video evidence, saying that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11... yet the children of that sovereign nation are still suffering. Still having to cope with a lack of electricity, food, water and in many cases, limbs and parents.

I'm disgusted to call myself British. What a cloud of shame i am forced to carry while my soul is crying for the suffering of the innocent.

Iraq had WMD's? Maybe once. But where did they come from? Try the US government in the 1980's! Remember the baby formula factory that was bombed, claimed by US intelligence to be a weapons factory? Testimonies of Iraqis prove that Saddam got rid of any remaining WMD's... or is the word of Iraqis not good enough? What makes anyone in the West think that their word is more important than that of an Iraqi? If not, remember the media spouting in the newspapers before the invasion, about convoys of WMD's being moved from Iraq to Syria? Oh yes, now you do! So you see... Iraq got rid of them either way. Ask the UN inspectors too. They found nothing in all the years of searching.

All those lies, all those dead Iraqis, Afghanis, Americans, British and other coalition troops. For what?
For a bent businessmans insurance deal and a good excuse to steal Iraqi oil and secure a pipeline through Afghanistan. Not just that though; a greater plan... a New World Order, where the population is microchipped, money is obsolete, rights are non-existent and if you question authority, your chip is turned off.
Look in the media for the news pieces on school uniforms having microchips embedded in them. Look for soldiers having microchips. Look at the real ID act in the US and the national ID in the UK. Look at the patriot acts and the other plethora of "anti-terror" laws such as "stop and search" in the UK... where civilians are targeted by police to be searched in the street. Guilty until proven innocent.
Oh, it's for our security? Then why then, even after 9/11 and 7/7, the borders are operating on a business-as-usual basis, with hundreds of thousands of potential enemies pouring through?

For Gods sake people, wake up.

That is fantastic

[onourwayto2012]

If on September 10th, you told someone the "Official Story" you would have been told your scenario was so utterly preposterous,farfetched and just lame to even make a decent fiction story. They would say that each situation would never happen in a million years. 19 Arabs with plastic forks... not one,two or three planes but four! Zero response......and so on and so on. And yet 3 billion people of varying intelligence bought this story a few days later. Not a SINGLE aspect of the official story is remotely plausible yet at least 2 billion of those 3 still buy it 7 yrs later. That's almost as unbelievable as the "story". I guess...like some of you I was very surprised to see someone on THIS forum still not sure....

[true]

watch this clip. It's only 5 minutes, make sure you see the end. Very convincing evidence...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0