Dumbed down in the spirit world?

[limelady]

I thought some of you might enjoy Matthew Delooze's latest article about
how the serpent cult controls humanity in both life and death.

Is There Anybody There?

http://www.matthewdelooze.co.uk/images/articles/D%20jesus.jpg

Dumbed Down in the Spirit World (http://www.matthewdelooze.co.uk/readarticle.php?article_id=40)

[meave]

thank you some genuine views on information regarding reptilians this is one i'm most needing help in seeing new idea on not 100% on this one but logic always provails :)

[kha zarr]

very interesting thanks for sharing

[xpleet]

More and more peopel deceive themselves into thinking of the physical Universe as "You create your own reality, and therefore we can make a happy, peaceful Earth if we all wake up"

It is simply not true for the reality we live in.

Atomic matter is built up in a way that it is almost not alterable by thought, this is the foundation of the physical universe. It is NOT astral, and it's bound to the physical laws set up for it. Yes, the nature is that your imagination outright manifests in whatever you want, but not in the physical universe.

And you already know the purpose of this reality, only can you deny that it is really a prison, filled with illusions and programming.

And now only imagine, as Astral matter is made up of thought, how deceptive and illusory it is there.

I wish Dooze would read this.

[marpat]

I thought some of you might enjoy Matthew Delooze's latest article about
how the serpent cult controls humanity in both life and death.

Is There Anybody There?

http://www.matthewdelooze.co.uk/images/articles/D%20jesus.jpg

Dumbed Down in the Spirit World (http://www.matthewdelooze.co.uk/readarticle.php?article_id=40)

Is it not the will of the individual that controls their life and death?

[marpat]

More and more peopel deceive themselves into thinking of the physical Universe as "You create your own reality, and therefore we can make a happy, peaceful Earth if we all wake up"

It is simply not true for the reality we live in.

Atomic matter is built up in a way that it is almost not alterable by thought, this is the foundation of the physical universe. It is NOT astral, and it's bound to the physical laws set up for it. Yes, the nature is that your imagination outright manifests in whatever you want, but not in the physical universe.

And you already know the purpose of this reality, only can you deny that it is really a prison, filled with illusions and programming.

And now only imagine, as Astral matter is made up of thought, how deceptive and illusory it is there.

I wish Dooze would read this.

The creative power of the mind is a fact though. If you feel that your mind cannot create anything in your life then there is little purpose in living is there. I would have to add that to believe that we are in some prison with no means of changing ourselves or our environment is exactly the sort of thinking that will mke you a spiritual slave.

You mind can manifest things. You want to be a teacher, you study hard go to uni, do your exams, etc then become what your mind has defined and shaped, a physical result. I think people get confused because they expect a direct effect of mind upon matter then feel that such a thing is not possible. It is possible but you need the right medium, which is generally your body for creating physical change.

[empyblessing]

We can see the manifestation of real emotion through esoteric concepts. Good and evil are seats of arrogance and guilt. The thought creates the emotions and emotions can alter the physical nature of the body. Of course the body can in turn maneuver.

Nothing outside of the self can be manifested through thought. And yet, what is self? What is thought? Is not the self the all one consciousness? The "we" is merely illusionary division of infinite.

Perhaps it is such that only abstract thoughts can alter "reality" by altering the abstract's influence on the concrete, much similar to the way in which the spirit is said to influence the body. A sort of paradoxical concrete fabricating

Concerning the linked article: I found it at a high level thought. While being simple to understand, difficult to grasp. It lead me to much of my same conclusions. After death, deny anything or anyone which would lead to reincarnation. State my intent to return to oneness. Trust in my own self through my own discoveries.

It brings up many more thoughts as well. Much to consider.

Perhaps this is why there is minimal force applied to conspiracy theorists. As the author said many believe they'll be free from control once they die. I imagine that it will be difficult to resist Jesus and angels and Buddha. The spirit world is probably much like this world. In order to obtain freedom it is often required to deny your family or at least limit their influence in your life. Imagine the level of mind control exhibited in the spirit world.

What is brought to mind is all of the channeling concerning 2012 and Ascension. They often speak of densities. Icke has said these are just higher forms of the matrix.

[limelady]

Is it not the will of the individual that controls their life and death?

Yes, that was the point the article made. But it also pointed out that most people harbour fear-based beliefs (religious or otherwise) which have a powerful influence over their free-will and life and death choices.

[marpat]

Yes, that was the point the article made. But it also pointed out that most people harbour fear-based beliefs (religious or otherwise) which have a powerful influence over their free-will and life and death choices.

Indeed and this is why people should not be conditioned by fear of the NWO, or any other conspiracy. It is clear that a lot of people are quite depressed by it.

[limelady]

Indeed and this is why people should not be conditioned by fear of the NWO, or any other conspiracy. It is clear that a lot of people are quite depressed by it.

Indeed. You have just highlighted the huge difference between understanding and acknowledging something fully, and being fearful of that something 'out there' perceived to be much bigger than oneself.

The first part is empowering, the latter part is not - it is victim mentality.

There is also another view many have which makes them every bit the victim too, and that is one of denial of 'what is', and this view is ALWAYS fear-based.

[xpleet]

Actually it is your fear that is in play here. You are trying to base negative things such as that upon made-up good reasons, by basically saying "if you believe it is a prison(negative) you imprison yourself" which is false. Truth liberates, it does not imprison anyone at all. And that's what empowers David Icke aswell. It is deeply imbeded programmed fear that makes most ppl come to irrational conclusions without them even noticing. So beware.

[marpat]

Indeed. You have just highlighted the huge difference between understanding and acknowledging something fully, and being fearful of that something 'out there' perceived to be much bigger than oneself.

The first part is empowering, the latter part is not - it is victim mentality.

There is also another view many have which makes them every bit the victim too, and that is one of denial of 'what is', and this view is ALWAYS fear-based.

But to be in denial you have to have a real threat which is obvious and then deny that. A lot of the threats depend on peoples own viewpoints more than anything else.

[popeye11]

Indeed. You have just highlighted the huge difference between understanding and acknowledging something fully, and being fearful of that something 'out there' perceived to be much bigger than oneself.

The first part is empowering, the latter part is not - it is victim mentality.

There is also another view many have which makes them every bit the victim too, and that is one of denial of 'what is', and this view is ALWAYS fear-based.

I like the way you put that limelady. I do believe that beliefs have just about everything to do with how happy a person is; my beliefs however have been difficult to change. :o

[siscid]

Hey thanks for posting M!

I enjoyed reading the article, but I can't deny that I was a little frustrated about how it ended. Just like all the other the-spirit-world-is-still-a-big-trap articles, no one seems to put down any reasonable, thought-provoking ideas about what they would do in that situation should they come to realize before it was, say.. 'too late' that it was still a trap.

I would love to read anyones opinions about that. If it is the case at all of course and I have a good feeling it's got some truth too it.

Siscid

[marpat]

Hey thanks for posting M!

I enjoyed reading the article, but I can't deny that I was a little frustrated about how it ended. Just like all the other the-spirit-world-is-still-a-big-trap articles, no one seems to put down any reasonable, thought-provoking ideas about what they would do in that situation should they come to realize before it was, say.. 'too late' that it was still a trap.

I would love to read anyones opinions about that. If it is the case at all of course and I have a good feeling it's got some truth too it.

Siscid

Thats is what winds me up, people have fantastic ideas about how a person can be trapped but no reason to how they can escape. I think the idea is to make a person feel trapped an helpless, then they either do nothing or fall under the spell of some cult who offer the right way to get out of the trap. My thinking is that the will of the individual reigns supreme.

[siscid]

Thats is what winds me up, people have fantastic ideas about how a person can be trapped but no reason to how they can escape. I think the idea is to make a person feel trapped an helpless, then they either do nothing or fall under the spell of some cult who offer the right way to get out of the trap. My thinking is that the will of the individual reigns supreme.

I know marpat, tell me about it!

I'm guessing from the material that I have read that I might have an idea that whatever may happen after this so-called physical body shuts down. Basically, things will start to form themselves around you according to your belief system and it is up to dissect it and basically become 'lucid' almost if you will.

I had a funny day dream today after reading something that reminded me of this very article. I had died and Buddha (I'm not a Buddhist) was in front of me offering me to go to heaven or something stupid like that. Anyways, I suddenly had the thought "Hey, if they are the real deal they will understand your questioning of them" Then all of a sudden 'he' had a horrible facial expression that showed a lot of anger and I suddenly realized that this was no Buddha that I knew and this was not heaven or anything to do with it. I needed to get the hell out of there!

That's one possibility, no matter how absurd it sounds. :)

[marpat]

I know marpat, tell me about it!

I'm guessing from the material that I have read that I might have an idea that whatever may happen after this so-called physical body shuts down. Basically, things will start to form themselves around you according to your belief system and it is up to dissect it and basically become 'lucid' almost if you will.

I had a funny day dream today after reading something that reminded me of this very article. I had died and Buddha (I'm not a Buddhist) was in front of me offering me to go to heaven or something stupid like that. Anyways, I suddenly had the thought "Hey, if they are the real deal they will understand your questioning of them" Then all of a sudden 'he' had a horrible facial expression that showed a lot of anger and I suddenly realized that this was no Buddha that I knew and this was not heaven or anything to do with it. I needed to get the hell out of there!

That's one possibility, no matter how absurd it sounds. :)

According to the Bordo Thodol (nicknamed the Tibetan Book of the Daed) the first experience is of the clear light and if you do not recognise it you begin descending. At each step you see visions and if you do not realise that they are aspects of your own consciousness and merge with them then you continue to descend, ending in rebirth. The basic idea is to recognise and merge with the images as they arise and not run from them, which obviously needs training until it is a reflex.

[siscid]

According to the Bordo Thodol (nicknamed the Tibetan Book of the Daed) the first experience is of the clear light and if you do not recognise it you begin descending. At each step you see visions and if you do not realise that they are aspects of your own consciousness and merge with them then you continue to descend, ending in rebirth. The basic idea is to recognise and merge with the images as they arise and not run from them, which obviously needs training until it is a reflex.

That sounds really interesting. Have you got any links that you have found that elaborate on your findings or should I just go do the usual Google and go from there?

Siscid

[empyblessing]

I've only read a few NDEs but I'm curious if most or all have some reference where they meet a being which speaks or questions them such as God or angels?

[marpat]

I've only read a few NDEs but I'm curious if most or all have some reference where they meet a being which speaks or questions them such as God or angels?


Same as what I posted before. The tradition you are close to will reflect what you come across.

[marpat]

That sounds really interesting. Have you got any links that you have found that elaborate on your findings or should I just go do the usual Google and go from there?

Siscid

Try this. I actually bought the book years ago

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mistic/bardo_thodol.htm

[meave]

Try this. I actually bought the book years ago

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mistic/bardo_thodol.htm

thanks for the link it a nightmare to navigate thate site

[siscid]

Try this. I actually bought the book years ago

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mistic/bardo_thodol.htm

Cheers marpat,

I did take a look through the videos and they were very interesting. But I started to notice too many inconsistencies for me to watch more than 30 minutes of the big doco on it. But one thing I definitely agree with is how we must realize that the creations in front of us when we die are work of our own mind. I've never really been a big fan on reincarnation and it really doesn't appeal to me at all. But it's fascinating stuff!

[kblood]

Indeed. You have just highlighted the huge difference between understanding and acknowledging something fully, and being fearful of that something 'out there' perceived to be much bigger than oneself.

The first part is empowering, the latter part is not - it is victim mentality.

There is also another view many have which makes them every bit the victim too, and that is one of denial of 'what is', and this view is ALWAYS fear-based.

A very good article, thanks for posting it Limelady :)

I am not sure I completely agree with what he has written in it though. I dont believe these serpents control the spirit world, its just that what is done here on earth actually affects the spirit world, through religion and other kinds of making sure we have expectations of what to see when we die, or what to seek out. Also what options we have as the article says.

I agree that religion is very likely about trying to make sure that we follow the rules. When we die, go somewhere else. But some NDEs prove how much its up to us. There was a post about a cancer patient, a mother, who nearly died from her cancer, but when she had her NDE, she felt and knew she had a choice: Die now and move on, or live and know she will be well. For the sake of her family she choose to stay alive. The doctors said it was a miracle, because over a few weeks or something like that, her cancer was gone.

Now to my belief. I believe its true, this one conciousness, or oneness as many refer to it as, is beyond the spirit world. But when it comes to dimensions you cant just put it in layers. The thing is, oneness is both within us, and outside of us. Its both part of the spirit and soul being in us, and part of everything in the physical world around us. The real world as we call it, is the a more persistant dream than the ones we have when we sleep, that is how I see it.

Someone said we are bound to the laws of physics, but I dont believe so. Its just another part of the illusion and indoctrination. Something that not just we ourselves believe, but everyone around us as well, and that is what makes it so realistic. We have to be able to see through it and understand it clearly to be able to change it, through our mind alone.

Also when we die, there are so many options open to us, that 3 options is really not quite enough. How infinite is that really?

Btw, anyone remember there once was some Asian news saying that they made it illegal for some Buddhas to reincarnate? It was getting hard to figure out which was the actuall reincarnated Buddah :D

[marpat]

A very good article, thanks for posting it Limelady :)

I am not sure I completely agree with what he has written in it though. I dont believe these serpents control the spirit world, its just that what is done here on earth actually affects the spirit world, through religion and other kinds of making sure we have expectations of what to see when we die, or what to seek out. Also what options we have as the article says.

I agree that religion is very likely about trying to make sure that we follow the rules. When we die, go somewhere else. But some NDEs prove how much its up to us. There was a post about a cancer patient, a mother, who nearly died from her cancer, but when she had her NDE, she felt and knew she had a choice: Die now and move on, or live and know she will be well. For the sake of her family she choose to stay alive. The doctors said it was a miracle, because over a few weeks or something like that, her cancer was gone.

Now to my belief. I believe its true, this one conciousness, or oneness as many refer to it as, is beyond the spirit world. But when it comes to dimensions you cant just put it in layers. The thing is, oneness is both within us, and outside of us. Its both part of the spirit and soul being in us, and part of everything in the physical world around us. The real world as we call it, is the a more persistant dream than the ones we have when we sleep, that is how I see it.

Someone said we are bound to the laws of physics, but I dont believe so. Its just another part of the illusion and indoctrination. Something that not just we ourselves believe, but everyone around us as well, and that is what makes it so realistic. We have to be able to see through it and understand it clearly to be able to change it, through our mind alone.

Also when we die, there are so many options open to us, that 3 options is really not quite enough. How infinite is that really?

Btw, anyone remember there once was some Asian news saying that they made it illegal for some Buddhas to reincarnate? It was getting hard to figure out which was the actuall reincarnated Buddah :D

How would they ban the reincarnations? I guess they could try and prevent people looking for them

[kblood]

How would they ban the reincarnations? I guess they could try and prevent people looking for them

Yea, I guess the idea was to have something with which they could say, "No you are not Buddha, see he is not allowed to reincarnte at the moment."

Still, some religions dont want us to reincarnate. I think religion like catholism might actually be one of the reasons some ghosts linger here, because they fear the afterlife. So they choose to stay, believing this to be the hell they have to endure, instead of reincarnating or moving on in some other way.

[empyblessing]

Same as what I posted before. The tradition you are close to will reflect what you come across.

Please elaborate.

When I die, I intend to return to oneness.

[kblood]

Please elaborate.

When I die, I intend to return to oneness.

I think oneness is just what links everything together, so returning to it probably isnt an option. That would be like going back into your mother, undoing what was done. Instead I believe oneness is what we travel through to either move on to other dimensions, or other places in this dimension. Maybe into a different state of being.

[limelady]

A very good article, thanks for posting it Limelady :)




Thanks kblood and all the rest of you who have responded on this thread - hearing your thoughts certainly makes for some interesting reading.

For my own part, I have felt for some considerable time now that the life/death cycle(s) (complete with reincarnation) is all part of the matrix construct we need to completely extricate ourselves from. I feel it is entirely possible that at some point after death our life memories are removed and we a tossed back into another 3D life-cycle. I have this horrible feeling humans are really just re-chargeable batteries for a machine that's been running here for eons, and if we cannot figure out an after-death escape plan in one life cycle, then our life memories will be deleted again as we are tossed back into the machine for another round on the treadmill starting from scratch.

I agree with David that we don't have to evolve (we are already enlightened beings), but we do need to remember who we REALLY are in order to carry on our way outside of the entrapment of the matrix life/death cycle......whatever it is and whomever it is controlled by.

Personally I feel it is automated, and the memory deletion process is by no means always fallible, and some memories (or inner 'knowings') are retained by the spirit (the real us) as we enter a new life cycle, and this is why some people are born with past life memories and others seem to be 'old souls' from the day they were born.

Maybe with each round in the matrix we manage to retain a little information from each physical life, and sooner or later we have retained enough to piece it all together and figure out what's going on in one lifetime....then make a break for freedom when we next enter the death phase of the cycle.

I'm of course still open to ALL other possibility here, but more and more I am feeling that unless we truly 'wake up' while in 3D physical form, death will not be the release or escape many people believe it will be.... and some of the beautiful things people see and feel upon death (depending on their last life conditioning) maybe just more spiritual entrapment we have no control over, and every bit as illusionary as the reality we are experiencing right here now.
The death experiences people report when they return to life could all be part a 'give them what they expect to find' holding facility while we wait it out till its time to re-enter another 3D life cycle.

I have vague recollections (or whatever you might want to call them) deep in my being that makes me feel I have experienced death before....perhaps many times, and it was in some way VERY disappointing....not frightening, but just not right in some way either.

I hope I haven't depressed anybody by my post, and I'm sorry if I have, but I'm just telling it as I see it at the moment. :)

[montag]

I feel it is entirely possible that at some point after death our life memories are removed and we a tossed back into another 3D life-cycle.
I have a theory that we are actually born with our memory intact but it is gradually lost in our first couple of years of life. Next time you see a baby in it's first few months of life, look at it's eyes and the way it is viewing whats going on around it, it's like they are going WTF this again!?!

[montag]

From Revelations of the Insider



The first thing a baby does when born is cry.
It does so because the Soul is conscious of what it has been born into and is in a state of disbelief (you are more conscious of what you are and where you are during/right after birth than you are now).
The Soul makes the body cry because it is the first time it came to this physical realm (although this is a very limited number) or because it realizes it has returned through reincarnation, after failing in the former life (which is a vast majority).
The Soul itself is not the one crying (it is unfamiliar with these functions in it´s original state) yet the impulses it gives makes the body cry.
It cries "without a reason" for days, weeks, months, until the consciousness has lost it´s power, be it through natural processes or the influence of parents and these days even medication...
That is when the human is truly born, after they forget who they are, where they are, some forget faster than others.
This crying is different to the crying that follows after the first few months, one can even hear it.
Comfort them during this crucial period of consciousness and make it known that the One has gifted them with a chance to return back to the place they belong.
This will have an impact which will influence them for the rest of their lives, subconsciously.

[eternal_spirit]

Could it be that's why babys cry when born, Oh no not this again!

[montag]

Could it be that's why babys cry when born, Oh no not this again!
See above post..;)

[kblood]

I agree Limelady that our memory is probably wiped, but then it would seem against my logic if it wasnt. We still have the our imprint of us through our soul. Our memory instead becomes blocked to us, but still shapes our personality. What would we really use memory of past lives for?

As I see it, we dont need that memory. In some cases it would probably just keep us locked in the same cycles we were in, in a past lifetime. Then again, often we tend to return the the cycles we have had in past lifetimes, but still without the actual memory, I think it gives us a better chance of starting over. When we do manage to cross over to the next level or whatever it will be, then that memory is likely accesible to us again.

I think the main reason why the memory is lost to us, is because our body is a shortcut to our memories. With our body we connect to its memories, but our soul is too close to the spirit, and too close to oneness. In the oneness all knowledge and memory resides, without much distinction. So after leaving our body, those past memories goes becomes harder to access, without knowing exactly what to focus on.

I believe we through the oneness can get answers for any question we might have, the only problem is knowing what to ask for.

Im actually quite certain that when we reincarnate into this plane of existance, it is because our soul doesnt feel ready. Therefore doing the, "I think I will have another go at it.", and try try again :)

Also I believe some of the reasons there are so many lies, is because its unnatural for us to begin with to accept the truth. It takes time for us to open up, learn and accept the truths we find.

[kblood]

Could it be that's why babys cry when born, Oh no not this again!

And still some doesnt cry. Only a few, but some actually doesnt cry much, as if they accept it and calmly enters life again. Taking the challenge instead of being a crybaby about it :cool:

[kblood]

I have a theory that we are actually born with our memory intact but it is gradually lost in our first couple of years of life. Next time you see a baby in it's first few months of life, look at it's eyes and the way it is viewing whats going on around it, it's like they are going WTF this again!?!

I actually remember quite alot of my childhood. Maybe even back when I was 1 year old. I remember thinking how hard it was to make others understand me, and how ignorant they seemed to me for not understanding me :D

[montag]

I agree that our memory is probably wiped, but then it would seem against my logic if it wasnt.
Stuart Wilde has a theory that there is a mirror world which we also inhabit and i agree. Science has proven that anti-particles exist, which mean that for every particle of matter that exists there also exists an anti-particle which resides in the mirror world. I myself experienced my other self in the mirror world after smoking DMT i believe, anyway according to Stuie Wilde after death all of our life experiences are stored in our mirror self and aren't lost, this is how our soul/spirit evolves, after my experience this theory totally resonates with me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiparticle

[om_shanti]

What if emotion/feeling comes before thought
what if what lies in our hearts- or lack thereof- gives rise and form to our reality
what if oneness is this moment and carries all that is- including polarity and all that we experience in dreaming and waking states
what if life has no meaning other than our subjective theories
what if there is no beginning and no end
what if we feel glimmers of love and decide to stick around a wee bit longer....what if "everthing we see and seem is but a dream within a dream?"

what if i make a cup of tea, comprehending even less (if that is possible) of what why this is so.......or not.

[cruise4]

Interesting article, almost lost credibility when he first mentioned Derek Accora, but recovered nicely. I also think there's more to this Sun Cult cycle that we seem to get put through. There's a purpose to it and this one is as good as any other I've heard. I would guess you aren't under any obligation to do as the entities suggest, but your prior belief's may hinder rational thought at such a time. It would be interesting to connect re-incarnation to bloodline. David Wilcock mentioned that a 'familiar' DNA might be an attractor for a spirit attempting to re-incarnate. So a Rothschild spirit might be pre-disposed to choose another Rothschild conception for reincarnation. And are we talking about the 'next dimension' or a sort of halfway house? Is our Pineal Gland working correctly? Where do all the extra people come from. And if we buy into the idea of entities coming to this planet at this time to aid escape, what is it that is to be done from 'within' this environment. Is there anything apart from the Sun Cult stuff that spans the generations and may provide an additional clue or two? And one other thing that bothers me... we keep hearing about 11, 9 and 7 but little about 5 and 8 for example. Are there numbers the masons 'don't' like?

[limelady]

I don't personally believe life cycle reincarnation is necessary to live out karma or for the purpose of trying to 'do better'. I think we end up having multiple lives because we are disconnected from our memories and have little choice but to return to this place. I do not believe we would choose to reincarnate if we had full access to our higher conscious, and if knowledge of who we really are WAS available to us, we would not sin against others anyway, there would be no need to hurt others in order to feel better about ourselves.

I don't believe in karma either....not the kind of karma people peddle as soul learning/redemption/punishment stuff anyway....I think this is just religious/new age bollocks.

I do however believe there are universal laws that can assist or constrain us in this and other realities though, and one of these laws is known as the LOA. Part of the LOA ensures that what you give out comes back, or what you hold in your heart is what you will experience. Some people call this karma, in that if you cause somebody harm (have dark or harmful thoughts, beliefs about yourself or others) then you will inevitably get the same back in 'like attracts like' style. This has nothing to do with redemption IMO. When people say, "he'll get his", they are really saying that in this reality, you get back what you give out. This is not judgemental karma per say, it is just understanding the laws that govern this reality.

[kblood]

Stuart Wilde has a theory that there is a mirror world which we also inhabit and i agree. Science has proven that anti-particles exist, which mean that for every particle of matter that exists there also exists an anti-particle which resides in the mirror world. I myself experienced my other self in the mirror world after smoking DMT i believe, anyway according to Stuie Wilde after death all of our life experiences are stored in our mirror self and aren't lost, this is how our soul/spirit evolves, after my experience this theory totally resonates with me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiparticle

I believe that as well, but it quite clearly isnt clear and sharp memory to us after a reincarnation. So as I tried to explain later in the post, our memory on a soul level becomes something else. Instead of memories it just imprints as personality. If you became a great leader and in the end didnt feel you did enough for those you were leading, then you might become a self sacrificing person in your next lifetime. Doing whatever you can for everyone else. Also it seems sorrow and other emotions sometimes gets carried over, in fact it seems that our emotional memory is what we keep. That is what I think imprints on our soul.

I also believe the actuall memory is still there, just hard to focus on. Not being in the body that had those actual experiences makes it so much harder to remember it clearly. I also think much of the memory is actually stored in the body. Muscle memory and so on, but then again, it seems I have memory of how to fight, using swords and other martial arts. If I do happen to end up in a fight, where I actuall have good reason to defend myself, I usuall have no problem doing so. If so its also because I feel like the person or persons im up against might learn something from it. Still I usually rather just avoid the unwanted attention that comes with it.

Arent there known and written ways of directly accessing past memories?

[kblood]

I don't personally believe life cycle reincarnation is necessary to live out karma or for the purpose of trying to 'do better'. I think we end up having multiple lives because we are disconnected from our memories and have little choice but to return to this place. I do not believe we would choose to reincarnate if we had full access to our higher conscious, and if knowledge of who we really are WAS available to us, we would not sin against others anyway, there would be no need to hurt others in order to feel better about ourselves.

I don't believe in karma either....not the kind of karma people peddle as soul learning/redemption/punishment stuff anyway....I think this is just religious/new age bollocks.

I do however believe there are universal laws that can assist or constrain us in this and other realities though, and one of these laws is known as the LOA. Part of the LOA ensures that what you give out comes back, or what you hold in your heart is what you will experience. Some people call this karma, in that if you cause somebody harm (have dark or harmful thoughts, beliefs about yourself or others) then you will inevitably get the same back in 'like attracts like' style. This has nothing to do with redemption IMO. When people say, "he'll get his", they are really saying that in this reality, you get back what you give out. This is not judgemental karma per say, it is just understanding the laws that govern this reality.

I dont believe in karma that way either. I dont believe bad karma would force us to stay here, or make us reincarnate as a rat or something like that. I do believe that we are here to learn though, and also as you do, in universal laws. Seems to me that everything has to follow some universal laws, that through them we can protect ourselves against anything at all, but living life a certain way. I dont believe that we can make only good things happen to us, but I believe that LOA and other universal laws are ways that we can avoid much, and attract much.

I believe that the reason we dont have full access is because we are evolving and learning. That we are blossoming souls, and as long as we havent fully learned how to the higher teachings, and maybe how we define ourself with them, then we wont be able to move on, because we wont know where to move on to. Unless we understand it, then how would we find it? I do think that there are lots of places to go to though, even without moving on. I think we can go to places that might be better than Earth, although everything is relative. Some find Earth a paradise, while others might have liked it better 1000 years in the future or the past.

[cruise4]

Just on that LOA thing. I know of one woman who is very warm hearted loving person. Yet she had a son that stuck a spoon into an electrical socket and died, and then adopted a 1 year old polynesian baby who became riddled with cancer and also died at about age 2. One of her other sons has just buried his wife from something like MS and in this case I just can't see how LOA is working. Unless the suggestion is that being warm and loving you attract bad stuff as you can handle it better and ultimately perform greater service? Just guessing now. Don't know much about LOA but I'm a bit suspicious at present.

[limelady]

I believe that the reason we dont have full access is because we are evolving and learning. That we are blossoming souls, and as long as we havent fully learned how to the higher teachings, and maybe how we define ourself with them, then we wont be able to move on, because we wont know where to move on to. Unless we understand it, then how would we find it? I do think that there are lots of places to go to though, even without moving on. I think we can go to places that might be better than Earth, although everything is relative. Some find Earth a paradise, while others might have liked it better 1000 years in the future or the past.

This is where we differ slightly in our take on things I think kblood, in that I feel we already know EVERYTHING but have been deliberately dumbed-down, stymied and effectively prevented from connecting to what we know as truth.

I think this stuff about us having to evolve, learn and grow in order to move on is more religious entrapment instilled in us for control purposes and to make us surrender to the idea that we are inferior/lessor beings than who we really are. I believe we are in fact already perfect spiritual beings, and I don't believe it is possible to unlearn what one knows to be universal truth at the level of absolute consciousness, but we do need to remember and reconnect to who we really are or we are little more than drones going round and round in circles through eons of time.

Its all about undoing rather than doing.....its about shedding programming and instilled beliefs....its about connecting the dots and finding our way home again IMO. :)

[montag]

This is where we differ slightly in our take on things I think kblood, in that I feel we already know EVERYTHING but have been deliberately dumbed-down, stymied and effectively prevented from connecting to what we know as truth.

What about this for a concept, what if infinite consciousness(God) is still growing? And us all being aspects of that infinite consciousness experience the separation of being for the purpose of this growth? I've always had a bit of a problem with a static all knowing God, wheres the fun if everything to be known is known? can something which is infinite still grow? Apparantly the universe which if infinite is still expanding..

This is a concept that I've toyed with in my mind from time to time and I would be interested to hear what others think..

[limelady]

What about this for a concept, what if infinite consciousness(God) is still growing? And us all being aspects of that infinite consciousness experience the separation of being for the purpose of this growth? I've always had a bit of a problem with a static all knowing God, wheres the fun if everything to be known is known? can something which is infinite still grow? Apparantly the universe which if infinite is still expanding..

This is a concept that I've toyed with in my mind from time to time and I would be interested to hear what others think..

Yep, that is what I have always believed we are! As such we are aspects of 'the divine' - co-creators, travellers, and explorers - free to come and go and experience in any reality we could possibly imagine.

But somewhere along the way I believe we became entrapped in THIS reality with such incredible limitation. :(

I get tiny glimpses of our former glory days, and its sure nothing like the restricted reality we are living now!

We need to free ourselves from this 'veil of tears' (as worker slaves for somebody else's static system) so once again our spirits can soar. The same goes for 'whatever/whoever' so effectively trapped us here in the first place, as they have effectively trapped 'themselves' also.

[montag]

But somewhere along the way I believe we became entrapped in THIS reality with such incredible limitation. :(

\
Thats true, but isn't it also true that we experience our greatest periods of personal growth through overcoming adversary? The lotus flower grows up and blossoms out of the muck, the greater adversary the greater potential for growth. Most spiritual awakenings occur after periods of great suffering or a tragedy, when the bottom of the pit has been reached we're faced with a choice, evolve or face annihilation.

When I went on my DMT trip to me it felt like going for a pit stop like at the Grand Prix, the beings that where in that other dimension expressed great love and appreciation towards me like I was on some sort of special mission, but they also had a sense of urgency like a pit stop to do what needed to be done because like the pit stop at the Grand Prix there time with me was limited and very brief, but somehow I came out of it feeling like we all have a very special purpose with our work here.

I hope this makes some sense, cause it's difficult to put to words as it's more of a feeling..:)

[limelady]

Thats true, but isn't it also true that we experience our greatest periods of personal growth through overcoming adversary? The lotus flower grows up and blossoms out of the muck, the greater adversary the greater potential for growth.

Hmmm, maybe in the context of this reality, but its also still assuming we need to learn rather than remember. It all feels too much like religious/matrix programming to me .....like the phoenix rising out of the ashes type of thing.....and having to experience bad karma in order to become wise, knowledgeable, and feel a connection to the right and the good etc.

I take the view that we are all ready all-knowing infinite beings (co-creators) who have merely forgotten who we are, and most of what we experience in this reality is related to hardship and adversity in one way or another anyway.:(


Most spiritual awakenings occur after periods of great suffering or a tragedy, when the bottom of the pit has been reached we're faced with a choice, evolve or face annihilation.

Yes, its likely just the shock and fear of our own survival in this reality that breaks the human psyche open enough for some higher truth to seep through the induced amnesia.

But surely it shouldn't take great suffering and pain in order for us to remember that we are already whole spiritual beings? Humans have been programmed to expect to suffer and endure tragedy to breaking point over and over - in fact its the main-frame of the matrix 'computer' program we live in, and its this way by design....for the sole purpose of extracting fear and stress energy. Suffering has nothing to do with evolving into spiritual beings, although we have been programmed to believe this is so.....its all just part of the great lie IMHO.

When I went on my DMT trip to me it felt like going for a pit stop like at the Grand Prix, the beings that where in that other dimension expressed great love and appreciation towards me like I was on some sort of special mission, but they also had a sense of urgency like a pit stop to do what needed to be done because like the pit stop at the Grand Prix there time with me was limited and very brief, but somehow I came out of it feeling like we all have a very special purpose with our work here.

I have never done DMT, and therefore could only speculate about who these beings you met may or may not have been, their motivation, and whether they are still part of the matrix construct or outside of it etc.... but maybe the urgency they displayed (and you experienced) was in these beings (and yourself) knowing that your DMT 'trip' only gives you a limited window of time - a mere glimpse of these other levels of reality:confused:

I hope this makes some sense, cause it's difficult to put to words as it's more of a feeling..:)

All this stuff is difficult to put into words, as most of it IS only feelings coming from one amnesiac to another, so what I have written is likely not to make much sense to you either. :p

[shenoma]

I have seen old friends has babies, it one of my perks of seeing my past lives, and those of others people's. I love reading babies, a few has read me back, and will smile at each other. Like see what shithole we are both in, haha.

I have a theory that we are actually born with our memory intact but it is gradually lost in our first couple of years of life. Next time you see a baby in it's first few months of life, look at it's eyes and the way it is viewing whats going on around it, it's like they are going WTF this again!?!

[shenoma]

I have one memory when I was six months old, I wasn't thinking at all, just feeling and seeing the world around me.

I actually remember quite alot of my childhood. Maybe even back when I was 1 year old. I remember thinking how hard it was to make others understand me, and how ignorant they seemed to me for not understanding me :D

[shenoma]

It is not a mirror per sa, but you feeling the rest of your being that is asleep somewhere else 7d.

Stuart Wilde has a theory that there is a mirror world which we also inhabit and i agree. Science has proven that anti-particles exist, which mean that for every particle of matter that exists there also exists an anti-particle which resides in the mirror world. I myself experienced my other self in the mirror world after smoking DMT i believe, anyway according to Stuie Wilde after death all of our life experiences are stored in our mirror self and aren't lost, this is how our soul/spirit evolves, after my experience this theory totally resonates with me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiparticle

[shenoma]

I wouldn't go there, I have been here for the past four years. It is great sometimes but remembering old ways, dead societies, and finding former lovers ain't something you want to go through. You are better off just enjoying this life, my friend but you will never know what I do either, haha.:p A burden and a curse of knowledge, which I have and will set myself free with. Peace and love.



Arent there known and written ways of directly accessing past memories?

[shenoma]

Suffering is fun that is why we go through it, to exprience so joy later on, and the pain creates more pain, and more fun.


But surely it shouldn't take great suffering and pain in order for us to remember that we are already whole spiritual beings? Humans have been programmed to expect to suffer and endure tragedy to breaking point over and over - in fact its the main-frame of the matrix 'computer' program we live in, and its this way by design....for the sole purpose of extracting fear and stress energy. Suffering has nothing to do with evolving into spiritual beings, although we have been programmed to believe this is so.....its all just part of the great lie IMHO.



I have never done DMT, and therefore could only speculate about who these beings you met may or may not have been, their motivation, and whether they are still part of the matrix construct or outside of it etc.... but maybe the urgency they displayed (and you experienced) was in these beings (and yourself) knowing that your DMT 'trip' only gives you a limited window of time - a mere glimpse of these other levels of reality:confused:



All this stuff is difficult to put into words, as most of it IS only feelings coming from one amnesiac to another, so what I have written is likely not to make much sense to you either. :p

[limelady]

Suffering is fun that is why we go through it, to exprience so joy later on, and the pain creates more pain, and more fun.

Sounds kinda masochistic to me, and they tell me that's a self-defeating personality disorder. :o

[marpat]

Please elaborate.

When I die, I intend to return to oneness.


If you are a christian you will see christian style images, saints, etc. If you don't have any religius feelings then you will be met by family and friends.

[kblood]

Thats true, but isn't it also true that we experience our greatest periods of personal growth through overcoming adversary? The lotus flower grows up and blossoms out of the muck, the greater adversary the greater potential for growth. Most spiritual awakenings occur after periods of great suffering or a tragedy, when the bottom of the pit has been reached we're faced with a choice, evolve or face annihilation.

When I went on my DMT trip to me it felt like going for a pit stop like at the Grand Prix, the beings that where in that other dimension expressed great love and appreciation towards me like I was on some sort of special mission, but they also had a sense of urgency like a pit stop to do what needed to be done because like the pit stop at the Grand Prix there time with me was limited and very brief, but somehow I came out of it feeling like we all have a very special purpose with our work here.

I hope this makes some sense, cause it's difficult to put to words as it's more of a feeling..:)

Yes, I think this is a learning experience, and that this kind of reality is new, even to our spirit. Although time doesnt exist and the future, past and present is all the same to our spirit, then I still think that our spirit actually grows from this experience.

And I agree with LimeLady that we are very very limited here, but only because we let ourselves be, and havent found the way to get rid of that limitation. I have tried releasing the hidden powers of creativity and visualisation, and it seems when our mind reaches a higher frequency we can change the reality around us almost freely. When we look upon others, we know the thoughts they dont mind us knowing, and get to see into their past and future. We get to feel the focus around us, and whenever someone is looking at us, we will know and know the thoughts of that person and therefore why he or she is looking.

Having tried all this, I still like the limitation. Having to work for it all, instead of just instantly having it.

Also it seems that some of the spirits that control part of this matrix actually choose a human form now and then as well, and live a human lifetime, or maybe just have one human body to live in throughout the ages. Also it seems there are spirit who live in the spirit world with a purpose, instead of by accident as I in the beginning thought was the most common reason of being there. Being in transition. I believe these beings are there to help with the transitions.

We are still able to access our spirit and the source of all knowledge through it. Part of us still know everything, but in this world, its difficult through a 3D body to process all the data that the spirit can transmit. I believe that is the reason we have intuition instead, the spirits way of letting us know what would be the wiser choice and giving insight into what is going on around us.

[marpat]

There is no value in anything if it has not been earned as only effort gives a sense of appreciation. Look at the difference between people who earn money and those who it is given to, who appreciates it more and earns the greatest sense of pride and self respect for their effort.

This is the nature of the devil card of the tarot, it creates these limitations in order that people will strive to overcome them. We also need limitations in order to concentrate on anything, to set boundaries to focus upon. The devil card is this 'necessary evil'.

[limelady]

There is no value in anything if it has not been earned as only effort gives a sense of appreciation. Look at the difference between people who earn money and those who it is given to, who appreciates it more and earns the greatest sense of pride and self respect for their effort.

All true within the confines of programmed thinking under the spell of amnesia. All the religious beliefs we have been given tell us these things. We must work hard to be worthy and experience fulfilment! :rolleyes:

This is the nature of the devil card of the tarot, it creates these limitations in order that people will strive to overcome them. We also need limitations in order to concentrate on anything, to set boundaries to focus upon. The devil card is this 'necessary evil'.

Yes, strife and limitation are the very nature of this false reality, and will always be so as long as the slaves continue to believe nothing is worthwhile having without hard long-term effort and endurance. This is why this closed system has served the higher feeders so well for so long. :)

[montag]

I have never done DMT, and therefore could only speculate about who these beings you met may or may not have been, their motivation, and whether they are still part of the matrix construct or outside of it etc....


My feeling is that they are a part of the outer matrix, another dream within a dream, but more real than this, just as this reality here in my living room is more real or at least now seems more real than our dreams when we sleep. I felt like I was home in that reality, but I also now feel I'm at home here with my family, so what is real? It's levels of consciousness I believe. The Australian aboriginal believe that this is the dream time and they are only visitors here at this time, I agree.

but maybe the urgency they displayed (and you experienced) was in these beings (and yourself) knowing that your DMT 'trip' only gives you a limited window of time - a mere glimpse of these other levels of reality
Thats exactly what it is, they know there time is short, so there is a sense of urgency on there part, there was a reason I believe that that the opportunity manifested for me to have that experience, it's hard to describe in words, but the way it worked was quite synchronistic to what was happening in my life at that time, and the intelligence that I experienced in that dimension seemed as it was waiting for me, or knew I was coming, again hard to articulate.

[montag]

There is no value in anything if it has not been earned as only effort gives a sense of appreciation. Look at the difference between people who earn money and those who it is given to, who appreciates it more and earns the greatest sense of pride and self respect for their effort.

Agreed..

[montag]

It is not a mirror per sa, but you feeling the rest of your being that is asleep somewhere else 7d.
Thats right, it's the authentic you which has forgotten it is dreaming..

[marpat]

All true within the confines of programmed thinking under the spell of amnesia. All the religious beliefs we have been given tell us these things. We must work hard to be worthy and experience fulfilment! :rolleyes:



Yes, strife and limitation are the very nature of this false reality, and will always be so as long as the slaves continue to believe nothing is worthwhile having without hard long-term effort and endurance. This is why this closed system has served the higher feeders so well for so long. :)

Well that is only your opinion and not a fact. People always appreciate things that they earn. Do you think things such as spiritual growth are going to be free from effort? that is the way of the moral coward, the person who refuses to rise to the challenge. To try and pass it off as religious programming is just an effort to belittle the efforts of those who have striven and overcome adversity.

You make it sounds like strife and adversity are the creations of some spiritual entity rather than natural facts and you have nothing to base that idea on. having negativity in life gives you something to push against, like a thrust block, in order to push you onwards.

It is nice to sit on the fence and say it is all programming (which seems more like an excuse to not bother doing it) but can you offer any view of reality in which any worthwhile attainment is achieved without effort? personal change can be a very difficult undertaking so to change from joe average into an enlightened being is going to mean some real changes within, and this does not happen easy as the ego does not like being knocked off it's perch.

[limelady]

Well that is only your opinion and not a fact.

Very true, it is only my opinion and I don't expect others to go along with it. I just don't acknowledge most of what you say as "truth" anymore as I have begun to see through all the control systems in place here and a lot of what you believe as necessary for personal growth I now see for the systemic conditioning and mind programming (trap) it really is is. I once believed as you do, but when I started to break out of programmed thinking, cleared the decks of as many preconceived notions as I could (which kept me anchored in place) and started thinking for myself from outside the box, I found I could see things I was unable to see before, and I'm afraid there really is no going back to my box of old ways and old beliefs now. I can move my thoughts round in more of a free-form way and I'm now remembering stuff I know I've always known at some level...and I'm loving the sense of freedom it gives me!

Anyway, nice chatting to ya marpat, and good luck on your own personal journey. :D

[marpat]

Very true, it is only my opinion and I don't expect others to go along with it. I just don't acknowledge most of what you say as "truth" anymore as I have begun to see through all the control systems in place here and a lot of what you believe as necessary for personal growth I now see for the systemic conditioning and mind programming (trap) it really is is. I once believed as you do, but when I started to break out of programmed thinking, cleared the decks of as many preconceived notions as I could (which kept me anchored in place) and started thinking for myself from outside the box, I found I could see things I was unable to see before, and I'm afraid there really is no going back to my box of old ways and old beliefs now. I can move my thoughts round in more of a free-form way and I'm now remembering stuff I know I've always known at some level...and I'm loving the sense of freedom it gives me!

Anyway, nice chatting to ya marpat, and good luck on your own personal journey. :D


I know what you mean here though as I have been there years ago. I got to a stage in which I detached from all concepts and it feels good. The Buddhists would call it becoming liberated from the method, a stage in which a described method serves as a bond rather than an aid to liberation. It is more a stage on the journey. Such things are not always directly visible to others though and they need to progress to a point in which they can realise such a condition.

Although you have come into such a state it could be past life efforts that have brought you to such a stage and this is why you may feel that the spiritual struggle is not required.

Although lots of religious stuf is programming I think a lot of it is genuine and gives a good inner structure for people to explore and relate to. It is my belief that it is only negative and controlled when you are forced to stop exploring and unfolding. When the beliefs are imposed rather than unfolded then problems occur.

[limelady]

"Life" is a jig-saw puzzle, and its fun when the pieces start coming together. Who knows if one will get a full picture in one lifetime (perhaps there are many pictures?), but as long as you keep acknowledging the various puzzle pieces along the way, then there is much to be encouraged by. :D

[montag]

It is my belief that it is only negative and controlled when you are forced to stop exploring and unfolding.
Bingo! Dumbed down in the spirit world..;)

[montag]

All the religious beliefs we have been given tell us these things. We must work hard to be worthy and experience fulfilment! :rolleyes:
I think this philosophy goes way beyond religion, what of people that run in marathons just for the sense of achievement, or scale Mt. Everest and risk live and limb purely for the experience and exhilaration of it, is this matrix programming also? Why should hard work or effort be perceived as negative, that could be a form of programming in itself? Maybe, but it is only with a sense of purpose are we able to move forward I believe, even if it is only to escape this matrix, maybe then we will arrive at a place where it is possible to just be.

[montag]

Thinking about it more lime, I think I see where you're coming from, but what you need to ask yourself though is is it external or internal forces that are motivating you to effort, there is a big difference I believe.

[siscid]

I've been thinking about what Lime said and I think I know where she is coming from as well.

I believe the achievement of something worthwhile that has had a lot of effort invested into it is a wonderful thing, but on the other hand maybe taking away the effort for everything would help people eventually learn that happiness does not come from material things, status, reputation etc (though that does not apply to everything I wouldn't have thought). It comes from within.. if you wish to say it like that. I'm not entirely 100% on that philosophy but it's worth throwing around ideas around when you can.

Siscid

[shenoma]

I will reveal a few things I have seen, it has cost me a lot to endure gaining this knowledge on my own. First, there was a second universe before this one, it is completely gone now, but this universe is much smaller, I call it the choas verse(spelled wrong to make a point). Most of our true selves are asleep/death in the higher realms, I call it the seveth dimension. Very little of ourselves are here, some are completely but that is other matter, this universe is not fully real in that sense. It is a mirror, you can tap into your resting self if you wish, mine is what I see has red, there is reasons for that has well. That is why I believe this is nothing more then a real dream state, nothing matters here when it dies because it just fades somewhere else.

I had a thought: put your hand in front of your face, it becomes blurred and you can't see through it and realize it or completely seen it because it is to close. What if reality is like that too?

Thats right, it's the authentic you which has forgotten it is dreaming..

[limelady]

I think this philosophy goes way beyond religion, what of people that run in marathons just for the sense of achievement, or scale Mt. Everest and risk live and limb purely for the experience and exhilaration of it, is this matrix programming also? Why should hard work or effort be perceived as negative, that could be a form of programming in itself? Maybe, but it is only with a sense of purpose are we able to move forward I believe, even if it is only to escape this matrix, maybe then we will arrive at a place where it is possible to just be.

That is dependency on the rush of hormones (adrenaline/testosterone/estrogen) in the physical computer program we work through. Its the "high" they're after....its people desperately looking for feelings that will make them feel good about themselves for a time because we have been so thoroughly deprived from our higher connections. The rush will make them feel good till it wears off, but by then they will be planning their next high, and that in itself will sustain them till they need their next big fix. What you see as striving to achieve, I see as an individuals desperate for another"high" and recognition (ego), and each time they must push that little bit further to achieve that little bit more in order to get the same rush.

You see this in the business world, you see it in careers, you see it in sport.

But this is just my opinion having studied human physiology (our meat-suit computer program) and I expect nobody to believe what I say. :D

[shenoma]

But, how can you even know it possible to break out of the programming at all? Maybe, you are just wasting your time with what you are doing? What you now believe to be freedom is nothing more then a new/other field where you are picking cotton for the master?

I just don't acknowledge most of what you say as "truth" anymore as I have begun to see through all the control systems in place here and a lot of what you believe as necessary for personal growth I now see for the systemic conditioning and mind programming (trap) it really is is. I once believed as you do, but when I started to break out of programmed thinking, cleared the decks of as many preconceived notions as I could (which kept me anchored in place) and started thinking for myself from outside the box, I found I could see things I was unable to see before, and I'm afraid there really is no going back to my box of old ways and old beliefs now. I can move my thoughts round in more of a free-form way and I'm now remembering stuff I know I've always known at some level...and I'm loving the sense of freedom it gives me!

Anyway, nice chatting to ya marpat, and good luck on your own personal journey. :D

[montag]

That is dependency on the rush of hormones (adrenaline/testosterone/estrogen) in the physical computer program we work through. Its the "high" they're after....its people desperately looking for feelings that will make them feel good about themselves for a time because we have been so thoroughly deprived from our higher connections. The rush will make them feel good till it wears off, but by then they will be planning their next high, and that in itself will sustain them till they need their next big fix. What you see as striving to achieve, I see as an individuals desperate for another"high" and recognition (ego), and each time they must push that little bit further to achieve that little bit more in order to get the same rush.

You see this in the business world, you see it in careers, you see it in sport.

But this is just my opinion having studied human physiology (our meat-suit computer program) and I expect nobody to believe what I say. :D
I agree to a point, but as I mentioned in a previous post what is it that is motivating you to effort? All these things you have mentioned above, ego, hormones etc are external forces I believe as we are not these things, they are contructs of the matrix. But when motivated by an internal sense of purpose this is very different IMO.

[montag]

I will reveal a few things I have seen, it has cost me a lot to endure gaining this knowledge on my own. First, there was a second universe before this one, it is completely gone now, but this universe is much smaller, I call it the choas verse(spelled wrong to make a point). Most of our true selves are asleep/death in the higher realms, I call it the seveth dimension. Very little of ourselves are here, some are completely but that is other matter, this universe is not fully real in that sense. It is a mirror, you can tap into your resting self if you wish, mine is what I see has red, there is reasons for that has well. That is why I believe this is nothing more then a real dream state, nothing matters here when it dies because it just fades somewhere else.

I had a thought: put your hand in front of your face, it becomes blurred and you can't see through it and realize it or completely seen it because it is to close. What if reality is like that too?
Very interesting shenoma, thanks for sharing..:)

[limelady]

I agree to a point, but as I mentioned in a previous post what is it that is motivating you to effort? All these things you have mentioned above, ego, hormones etc are external forces I believe as we are not these things, they are contructs of the matrix. But when motivated by an internal sense of purpose this is very different IMO.

Well its the old 'splinter in your mind' thing of course, but each reacts differently to the 'splinter' depending on their external conditioning IMO.

But I guess it could be asked "what came first, the chicken (sense of purpose) or the egg (splinter)". :D

[montag]

Well its the old 'splinter in your mind' thing of course, but each reacts differently to the 'splinter' depending on their external conditioning IMO.


Got it in one.;)

[limelady]

But, how can you even know it possible to break out of the programming at all? Maybe, you are just wasting your time with what you are doing? What you now believe to be freedom is nothing more then a new/other field where you are picking cotton for the master?

All great questions shenoma!

But I cannot possibly answer them for you because these are the key question we all have to find answer for ourselves!

Besides, I'm still at the stage of asking these same questions and looking into the many possible answers myself. :)

The irony being, the more I think I understand, the more I realise there is to understand. I've come to see its the very nature of the rabbit hole we find ourselves in. But I must say its getting to be more fun the further along I go, and things are coming at me thick and fast now. :D

[montag]

All great questions shenoma!

But I cannot possibly answer them for you because these are the key question we all have to find answer for ourselves!

Besides, I'm still at the stage of asking these same questions and looking into the many possible answers myself. :)

The irony being, the more I think I understand, the more I realise there is to understand. I've come to see its the very nature of the rabbit hole we find ourselves in. But I must say its getting to be more fun the further along I go, and things are coming at me thick and fast now. :D
In other words it is required is that you seek the answers to these questions yourself, firstly though the motivation must be there and only through persistence will you be rewarded for your effort..;)

[kblood]

All great questions shenoma!

But I cannot possibly answer them for you because these are the key question we all have to find answer for ourselves!

Besides, I'm still at the stage of asking these same questions and looking into the many possible answers myself. :)

The irony being, the more I think I understand, the more I realise there is to understand. I've come to see its the very nature of the rabbit hole we find ourselves in. But I must say its getting to be more fun the further along I go, and things are coming at me thick and fast now. :D

Yes, I agree and feel the same way. Every answer opens more questions and more to secrets to uncover.

Also as you mentioned earlier, I also believe the ego is part of what limits us, and blinds us from the truth. Its quite efficient at, because even when its obvious it is still something not easy to get around.

I read posts about how the ego is part of what made this 3D existance what it is today. A new kind of madness, and probably what has made oneness show in all these facets called souls. Without it, I am not even sure we would have individualism.

[shenoma]

Brudevold said he has no need for a gavel because attendance at the meetings is lackluster at best.

"Not everybody usually makes it to the meetings, so it really doesn't get out of hand," he said. "The only time we really get people to show up is when we want to raise taxes — then everybody shows up."



All great questions shenoma!

But I cannot possibly answer them for you because these are the key question we all have to find answer for ourselves!

Besides, I'm still at the stage of asking these same questions and looking into the many possible answers myself. :)

The irony being, the more I think I understand, the more I realise there is to understand. I've come to see its the very nature of the rabbit hole we find ourselves in. But I must say its getting to be more fun the further along I go, and things are coming at me thick and fast now. :D

[limelady]

In other words it is required is that you seek the answers to these questions yourself, firstly though the motivation must be there and only through persistence will you be rewarded for your effort..;)

Well funnily enough, these days I only have to ask the question a few times and the way to the answer (or the answer itself) is presented to me.....this is what I meant in my post above when I said things are coming in thick and fast now. Perhaps they always did, but I was unable to recognise them for what they were.

[montag]

Well funnily enough, these days I only have to ask the question a few times and the way to the answer (or the answer itself) is presented to me.....this is what I meant in my post above when I said things are coming in thick and fast now. Perhaps they always did, but I was unable to recognise them for what they were.
Yes, but it's what you do with the answer which is important.

[limelady]

Indeed! :D

[shenoma]

http://www.kellys27.freeserve.co.uk/cast/tealc/teal'c.jpg

Indeed! :D

[limelady]

http://www.kellys27.freeserve.co.uk/cast/tealc/teal'c.jpg

Hahaha.....another stargate SG-1 fan huh!!

I nearly posted a pic of Tea'alt with my "indeed" but changed my mind, so thanks for making me smile shenoma! :D

[shenoma]

You are welcome, and I miss SG1. Atlantis is coming with new episodes I think this month or next.

Hahaha.....another stargate SG-1 fan huh!!

I nearly posted a pic of Tea'alt with my "indeed" but changed my mind, so thanks for making me smile shenoma! :D

[titan]

It's a fantastic read, had me laughing out loud too.

Thanks Matt, keeps me spiritually armed. It's ok knowing what you think you know about the NWO etc but this shit goes way deep...if some shimmering monk had gave me a life review and then asked me to jump I would have said 'HOW HIGH?'

I will never re-incarnate. I'm going home!:)

[kblood]

By the time of Noah's hour, there was no longer the pure genetic gene left. Therefore incorporated within the genes of the sons of Noah, (keep in mind, the fact that Noah had no daughters) was the attributal capabilities of every evil thing imaginable to mortal mankind. When all other male children from the Sethite line had begotten daughters, along comes Noah, a man who walked with God in the midst of all that ungodliness; that had no daughters born unto him. If he had, would they have been pure seed Sethites? No. Because it is obvious that Noah himself was not a pure seed Sethite, from the genetic standpoint. Therefore after the flood, when God gave the commission to the survivors, "Be fruitful, and multiply," the earth was again to be filled with humanity possessing the attributes of a fallen nature; and every male and female child that would be born unto them, would stand in need of redemption; and the necessary sacrifice for that redemption, God Himself would have to supply. It is a beautiful story we indulge ourselves in; when we study the history of mankind from beginning to end; because, if we have eyes to see, we see the great Creator working with, and for mankind every mile of the journey from his beginning to the end. Why did God allow the devil to interfere in His plan for man? It is a plan thought out from beginning to end, and set in motion in such a way, that the devil could be allowed to do what he did; and what he is still doing, and in the end, the Creator will have a family of sons and daughter that have been tested in every possible way; and have overcome those temptations by their own will to do so; and without any supernatural power except that which is available to every believer.

Taken from: http://www.thecontender.org/read/twolaws3a.htm

It is a text following up on the genesis were Cain was the son of Eve and the Serpent in Paradise, and Abel was the son of Adam and Eve. Having these sons were apparantly the original sin. It is mostly believed to be a false story though, even heresy. At least that is what is believed in most of Christianity.

So the reason we are born as sinners is because we have impure genes... so we have to earn redemption? I guess in some way it does make sense. It even fits somewhat with what I have come to believe, although I dont know if the story is believable.

[pepsirat]

Wow this thread has give me a lot to think about. My face has gone red from reading it. I can see and agree with almost everyones views. I am so very confused now lol.