The Troops are Going Insane

[the7thdimension]

http://www.the7thdimension.com/2008/06/troops-are-going-insane-or-at-least.html

We see more and more of this behavior everyday. Is it possible that these people are desensitized in military training. surely there can't be that many psychopathic soldiers in the us armed forces. that would be in violation of several UN agreements. right?

[costrovs]

WTF!!!

that was f*cked up!
that ending...OMG!!!:mad::mad::mad:
Fuck him!!! Fuck THAT!!! FUCK!!!!

I really don't know what to say!!!
This shit pisses me off!!
Do they have no souls???

I will tell you, I know a couple of people that went to IRAQ and now they are back. Ages 22,23,27. They are the most inhumane childish selfish bastards I know!!
These kids come back from IRAQ more fucked up than when they left!!
They join the army to "grow up", but come back as 12year olds that don't know anything!!! I do not associate with these people any more, due to them being so thickheaded, selfish, childish, inhumane assholes!

They think they are better than everyone else.
But THOSE are the people that fuck up everything for everyone, and THOSE are the people that are in our military!!

They have NOOOO souls!!!

I am 20 years old, and seriously, get your children home schooled. Because these are the people that are in our high schools!!
That is why when I got out of school, I felt a sigh of relief!

Speaking of high school, the fucking kids are assholes!!
I would never in my entire life EVER, have sex with some chick that I just met, just to get laid! Otherwise known as Fuck'em 'n Dump'em !!
That shows that these kids are fucking assholes.

Yes, I am 20, Had sex many times, but with one girl!!
I am loyal, nice, and not these fuck heads!!
Thats probably why I have not had a girl in a while!! Because I am NICE!!!
WTF!!! And these assholes get all the women?? Are you serious???

What the fuck!! AARRGHH!!!
This shit pisses me off!!! "look at him run.... are you getting this?"
Are you fucking serious?? That guy needs to be shoot!!

As a matter of fact,, I'm going to go join the Army right now and kick them all square in the face!!!

FUCK!!!!


Damn..... Sorry bout the rant

[edelweiss pirate]

WTF!!!

that was f*cked up!
that ending...OMG!!!:mad::mad::mad:
Fuck him!!! Fuck THAT!!! FUCK!!!!

I really don't know what to say!!!
This shit pisses me off!!
Do they have no souls???

I will tell you, I know a couple of people that went to IRAQ and now they are back. Ages 22,23,27. They are the most inhumane childish selfish bastards I know!!
These kids come back from IRAQ more fucked up than when they left!!
They join the army to "grow up", but come back as 12year olds that don't know anything!!! I do not associate with these people any more, due to them being so thickheaded, selfish, childish, inhumane assholes!

They think they are better than everyone else.
But THOSE are the people that fuck up everything for everyone, and THOSE are the people that are in our military!!

They have NOOOO souls!!!

I am 20 years old, and seriously, get your children home schooled. Because these are the people that are in our high schools!!
That is why when I got out of school, I felt a sigh of relief!

Speaking of high school, the fucking kids are assholes!!
I would never in my entire life EVER, have sex with some chick that I just met, just to get laid! Otherwise known as Fuck'em 'n Dump'em !!
That shows that these kids are fucking assholes.

Yes, I am 20, Had sex many times, but with one girl!!
I am loyal, nice, and not these fuck heads!!
Thats probably why I have not had a girl in a while!! Because I am NICE!!!
WTF!!! And these assholes get all the women?? Are you serious???

What the fuck!! AARRGHH!!!
This shit pisses me off!!! "look at him run.... are you getting this?"
Are you fucking serious?? That guy needs to be shoot!!

As a matter of fact,, I'm going to go join the Army right now and kick them all square in the face!!!

FUCK!!!!


Damn..... Sorry bout the rant

Birds of a shit feather flock together...

Many people are completely insane and these nutters are attracted by people who are like them.... people like you and me... the nutters just can't reach us.

I wouldn't worry dude, if you stay good and strong, life will be very kind to you. It's the psychos out there who make a mess of their and others lives, just run a mile from these people, they're like bombs... more and more of them are going BOOM! these days and taking out anyone within range. Get clear, find a bunker and enjoy your life. We are the safe ones.

[lightgiver]

Its just like the kids on Britain's streets don't you think:rolleyes:Knife crime and all that:confused:
have they served in iraq:confused:
the trouble today everybody are a bunch of immature, soft, selfish,spoilt, arse wipes,
Who watch to much shit on the tv:rolleyes:
And because they do it, i have to do it,
Heard of thinking for your self,sheep mentality comes to mind,
i think all these young thugs need a bit of hardship instead of whining,
to much, much to young,
Gangs ha ha what a joke,bunch of Nancy mummy's boys more like it:mad:
And the trouble today with all these young squaddies=IMMATURE,
they should not be in the forces in the 1st place.
But if the forces did not employ them,the forces would COLLAPSE.

[majicdragon]

Birds of a shit feather flock together...


It doesn't take Rocket Appliances to see that.

Laheyisms: http://s.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=2800399346&BlogId=6020408641

Rickyisms:http://s.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=2800399346&BlogId=5402838241

[lostwonderer]

That is totally fucked up,I really want to deck em now,i only watched a few seconds of it,made be so fuckin angry that i couldnt watch the rest of it.It really pisses me of when things like this happen,i mean their little kids,how could they.

[adzboarder]

. to be watched outside my institution of employment.. sounds crazy...

[steevo]

Well I think it's "official" that the soldiers are suffering from mental health problems, in 2005 alone 120 American veterans per week committed suicide SUPPOSEDLY and that was just the data from 45 US states :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqFJAByDU40

[lostwonderer]

There was something on panorama the other day,about the amount of antidpressants being given out to soldiers,due to stress and stuff,and those who have commited suicide which is said to have been connected with the drug,completely forgotten the name of it.

[tinmenace]

America's medicated Army - LINK (http://vb.spiritual-nature.com/showthread.php?t=1919)

[rasnalgoul]

I live in the States and I know of a few people I went to school with grew up with that went to the army then went to Iraq. It is taboo in our society to have any other opinion than "Support our Troops" publicly. Ive talked to some of these people and in general you could say by societies standards they were fuck ups, who had issues usually resulting with them getting into troubles with violence, and drugs, skipping school (which was probably a positive), but anyway they usually reversed their fuck up status by joining the armed forces. This was always a superficial reversal and most of them still had the issues some even being discharged from the Army. The stories one kid told me were worse than what appears in the that video.

For instance some of the worse experiences he recalled was of speeding down narrow streets in Humvees small children would walk out into the street and he told that orders were to never stop because the children were being used to force the vehicles to stop which would them be ambushed. So he said they would just smash and roll over children in the street never stopping.

Of course his rationals for this kind of behavior were the orders from command, that it was kill or be killed, and that if I were to see the way these people lived and how they were "pieces of shit" who would do anything to trick and kill me that I would have done the same.
The statements about how these people were 'pieces of shit' were followed with stories of how he personally assaulted punched and kicked a street vendor attempting to sell DVDs for 10 dollars each, in which after the man was beaten he simply stole the merchandise which he wanted.

These types of stories have been confirmed to me by others as well as those that served in the conflicts of the 90s desert storm. What can you say about our age. All television is pro war, video games depicting war dominate the industry and violence a washes all media. The soldiers are just plain idiots who dont see anything wrong with this kind of behavior. It truly is brainwash.

[shellygurrrl]

Wow, you guys have no idea what you're talking about. That video proves nothing. Anyone can edit together a bunch of clips that prove whatever they want. Have you ever watched a Michael Moore movie? Selective editing. For every idiot soldier there are a shitload more who don't do the crap shown in this video.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say how superior you are and how stupid they are. They've seen a hell of a lot more of life than the vast majority of you have.

What would you do if a little boy walked up to you in Iraq and pulled out a gun and aimed it at you? Would you let him kill you or would you defend yourself? Because some of those people over there use their kids to kill soldiers and rely on the compassion of the soldiers to make them hesitate long enough for that kid to fire a weapon and kill them.

Now there are a lot of soldiers on meds and I disagree with the military's attitude on mental health and believe it should be addressed. But being depressed or feeling anxiety doesn't make you a psychopath.

Just another bash the military thread at David Icke.

[steevo]

Wow, you guys have no idea what you're talking about. That video proves nothing. Anyone can edit together a bunch of clips that prove whatever they want. Have you ever watched a Michael Moore movie? Selective editing. For every idiot soldier there are a shitload more who don't do the crap shown in this video.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say how superior you are and how stupid they are. They've seen a hell of a lot more of life than the vast majority of you have.

What would you do if a little boy walked up to you in Iraq and pulled out a gun and aimed it at you? Would you let him kill you or would you defend yourself? Because some of those people over there use their kids to kill soldiers and rely on the compassion of the soldiers to make them hesitate long enough for that kid to fire a weapon and kill them.

Now there are a lot of soldiers on meds and I disagree with the military's attitude on mental health and believe it should be addressed. But being depressed or feeling anxiety doesn't make you a psychopath.

Just another bash the military thread at David Icke.

I'm not gonna waste my time going into any detail but all the bits above that I have put in "bold" are typical Debunkers/Skeptics Movement tactics designed to give the illusion of successfully discrediting the information in the posts on this thread.

[lizzy]

That is totally fucked up,I really want to deck em now,i only watched a few seconds of it,made be so fuckin angry that i couldnt watch the rest of it.It really pisses me of when things like this happen,i mean their little kids,how could they.

I know, their mission is to de-humanize every Iraqi left and you have lost part of your own humanity to do that.

[drael]

Very little would shock me about the behaviour of any soldier really. They condition themselves not to feel, so they can kill. Can pretty much go anywhere from that. U fight in a war, u gonna become jaded, messed up jaded.

US soldiers have relatively short training times making them more vulnerable to such psychological problems. War is intense after all, one needs strong training to be able to deal on any level. Plus things like political propaganda and racism. And terrorism puts the facts of war on the table in a nasty way.

But no suprises there really, war is disgusting and should only be a last option only.

[duckingdafta]

what a pathetic set of clips... when do people wake up and show ALL sides of the shit caused and the real damage being done rather than silly propaganda attempts like this that discredit many years of hard work done by proper activists in proving war crimes FROM ALL SIDES> they are all working to the same agenda people... we are all the same...future victims.
it's not right when people make vids with a one sided agenda.

[phildee3]

going??!!!

[noobcybot]

The army attracts nut cases and does not vet them properly, a very respected clinical psychologist I know practically begged them not to allow this one kid in ( schizophrenic, sociopathic, psychotic ) who was responsible for a few young childrens deaths when he was younger. They did not listen to him and yes, as they believed he was absolutely fearless in battle and was involved in many successful campaigns. He later drove two recruits to suicide before he was let go. The fact is that these people dont always just slip-though the net, sometimes they are seen and led through.
These people are taught martial ways without any teachings or help to keep them grounded. Furthermore many of them seem to think of themselves as "hard" even though they have never fought in a situation where they didnt have every nearly every advantage going. I wonder if our modern soldiers would think themselves so powerful if they had to face an equal opponent.
This does not mean that many of our soldiers are not good people with good intentions. I just think many are immature, the very fact they join an army can be testament to this.

[noobcybot]

Wow, you guys have no idea what you're talking about. That video proves nothing. Anyone can edit together a bunch of clips that prove whatever they want. Have you ever watched a Michael Moore movie? Selective editing. For every idiot soldier there are a shitload more who don't do the crap shown in this video.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say how superior you are and how stupid they are. They've seen a hell of a lot more of life than the vast majority of you have.

What would you do if a little boy walked up to you in Iraq and pulled out a gun and aimed it at you? Would you let him kill you or would you defend yourself? Because some of those people over there use their kids to kill soldiers and rely on the compassion of the soldiers to make them hesitate long enough for that kid to fire a weapon and kill them.

Now there are a lot of soldiers on meds and I disagree with the military's attitude on mental health and believe it should be addressed. But being depressed or feeling anxiety doesn't make you a psychopath.

Just another bash the military thread at David Icke.

The fact is you should not fight unless your life or the life of someone you love is in danger though no fault of their own. If everyone did that than surely there would be less heartache and horror in the world.
There is absolutely no reason that an army fighting in my name with my money for no good reason (and commiting horrible acts with it) should not be questioned. War is young men killing and suffering for greedy politicians, anyone who cannot see that should not be handed a weapon of war.
The T-shirt which has a picture of Kitchener and the words "you c*nt" is frank and to the point. Because when Kitchener tells you England needs you, and you believe him, thats what he thinks you are, a silly c*nt.

[lostwonderer]

I know, their mission is to de-humanize every Iraqi left and you have lost part of your own humanity to do that.

how so?

[lost_in_translation]

Im just sitting here trying to bite my tongue.. but i cant. why does one say thet because one soldier or one group of soldiers commits an act of stupidity then its all soldiers,, man the enlightened ones in here just have a selective thought process. edit bits of life out until you get it the way you want it.. most of the people in here you classify what one person does and says its what all of them do.. is still asleep .its a form of hate to say those things. wow we still have a long way to go in here. no wonder the masses ridicule us. we can get our own shit together.. lol

[noobcybot]

I dont think anyone here actually believes that because a few soldiers are evil that all soldiers are. I think the point is that it is either naive or evil to be a soldier, even if you think you are going out to save the world, because you are doing the Devils work and the Devil does not look after his workers.
Why do you think it is wrong to criticise something that causes so much pain and terror for no good reason?

[lostwonderer]

Im just sitting here trying to bite my tongue.. but i cant. why does one say thet because one soldier or one group of soldiers commits an act of stupidity then its all soldiers,, man the enlightened ones in here just have a selective thought process. edit bits of life out until you get it the way you want it.. most of the people in here you classify what one person does and says its what all of them do.. is still asleep .its a form of hate to say those things. wow we still have a long way to go in here. no wonder the masses ridicule us. we can get our own shit together.. lol

I dont think anyone did say that.

[shellygurrrl]

I'm not gonna waste my time going into any detail but all the bits above that I have put in "bold" are typical Debunkers/Skeptics Movement tactics designed to give the illusion of successfully discrediting the information in the posts on this thread.
I'm hardly a skeptic because I can't stand the military. But at least I actually have first hand experience to come to this conclusion. There's nothing to debunk. If I had personally seen troops going insane all over the place or heard about it, I would state so. Have I heard about soldiers doing stupid things, talking about how they want to kill people? Yes. I even heard people from my company talk about how they'd use dogs for target practice back in 2004 in iraq. They claimed the dogs were infested with fleas and disease and they were authorized to shoot them as pest control. Is that right? No.

But this is NOT the norm. That's a fact. :rolleyes:

[shellygurrrl]

Im just sitting here trying to bite my tongue.. but i cant. why does one say thet because one soldier or one group of soldiers commits an act of stupidity then its all soldiers,, man the enlightened ones in here just have a selective thought process. edit bits of life out until you get it the way you want it.. most of the people in here you classify what one person does and says its what all of them do.. is still asleep .its a form of hate to say those things. wow we still have a long way to go in here. no wonder the masses ridicule us. we can get our own shit together.. lol
watch out. To some, those statements must make you a debunker or part of skeptic movement tactics.

;)

[shellygurrrl]

I know, their mission is to de-humanize every Iraqi left and you have lost part of your own humanity to do that.

Yeah, that's exactly what their mission is. :rolleyes:

[shellygurrrl]

The army attracts nut cases and does not vet them properly, a very respected clinical psychologist I know practically begged them not to allow this one kid in ( schizophrenic, sociopathic, psychotic ) who was responsible for a few young childrens deaths when he was younger. They did not listen to him and yes, as they believed he was absolutely fearless in battle and was involved in many successful campaigns. He later drove two recruits to suicide before he was let go. The fact is that these people dont always just slip-though the net, sometimes they are seen and led through.
I find this hard to believe. Can you back this up with evidence? You cannot join the US military with pre-existing mental health issues without a doctor approval and some cases there are no waivers.

These people are taught martial ways without any teachings or help to keep them grounded. Furthermore many of them seem to think of themselves as "hard" even though they have never fought in a situation where they didnt have every nearly every advantage going. I wonder if our modern soldiers would think themselves so powerful if they had to face an equal opponent.
This does not mean that many of our soldiers are not good people with good intentions. I just think many are immature, the very fact they join an army can be testament to this.
Immature? Many people who join are 18 to 20 something. Logically speaking, this makes them more immature than others with more life experience. But this has nothing to do with the "very fact they join." Many join for very mature reasons, such as finances, money for school, job security, experience.

[noobcybot]

I am from England and I am talking about an incident that happened in England (many similar cases have also occoured, the DeepCut barracks incident for instance). Why on Earth would you ask for evidence about that, Why would anyone make that up, and why do you find it hard to believe?
Just because you join up for a mature reason does not make you mature. It is immature to think you are doing a good thing when you in fact are contributing to something very evil. Give me all my limbs over job security anyday.
In America veterans are well looked after so it looks more acceptable and respectable to go to war. In England veterans are treated very poorly even though they are told they would be looked after, believing someone who lies to you even though the great amount of evidence from WW1, the Falklands conflict etc.... suggests that you will risk your life health and happiness for no great reward is immature.
There is a saying in my country that goes " They promised us homes fit for heroes,they gave us heroes fit for homes ".
But hey, if you think its right that billions of young men die and billions of mothers/wives/children should suffer the deaths of their loved ones, and billions of people go through pain and misery and the worst in humanity is brought out for the sake of greedy polititians and war profiteers then go ahead. Keep having a go at the people who criticise war and the people who blindly walk into it.

[shellygurrrl]

I am from England and I am talking about an incident that happened in England (many similar cases have also occoured, the DeepCut barracks incident for instance). Why on Earth would you ask for evidence about that, Why would anyone make that up, and why do you find it hard to believe?
I ask for evidence because what you claim is very serious. There are MANY flaws with any type of military organization, but allowing psychopaths and schizophrenics willingly is something I have NEVER seen evidence of. The military may let questionable folks in sometimes - we all know the stories about them giving more waivers for crimes and drug use.

I know from personal firsthand experience, the military looks down on those with mental health issues. They don't champion it as something that is cool and harmless. That is why I question what you claim. That is not to say people don't lie and claim they are healthy when they are not. People do get in the military with medical issues because they hide it. The doctors approving and testing people do not take this lightly. They aren't going to willingly let in people who have serious mental issues.

Just because you join up for a mature reason does not make you mature. It is immature to think you are doing a good thing when you in fact are contributing to something very evil. Give me all my limbs over job security anyday.
I'm the first to agree that wars are started by politicians, and I hate politicians. But the average soldiers are not being evil. They are trying to stay alive. Millions of soldiers over time have never seen battle, nor do they lose limbs or life. It is the exception when someone dies, not the norm. So job security is a very valid reason to join. You have more chance of dying in a car crash than getting shot at in the military.

One could make any occupation "evil." What about businessmen (and women) who work for companies that promote fraud, worker abuse, and other corruption? That could be ANY company. What, are we all supposed to not work because we are inevitably somehow supporting something "bad?"

In America veterans are well looked after so it looks more acceptable and respectable to go to war. In England veterans are treated very poorly even though they are told they would be looked after, believing someone who lies to you even though the great amount of evidence from WW1, the Falklands conflict etc.... suggests that you will risk your life health and happiness for no great reward is immature.
There is a saying in my country that goes " They promised us homes fit for heroes,they gave us heroes fit for homes ".
But hey, if you think its right that billions of young men die and billions of mothers/wives/children should suffer the deaths of their loved ones, and billions of people go through pain and misery and the worst in humanity is brought out for the sake of greedy polititians and war profiteers then go ahead. Keep having a go at the people who criticise war and the people who blindly walk into it.
I think you're speaking from blind emotionality and not seeing the bigger picture. I agree with some of what you're saying. Because I don't believe troops are going insane hardly means I support war or the politicians.

What a lot of people don't seem to realize here is that the military does much good. They aren't all trigger happy goons, without a brain to think for themselves. Most are just trying to make a living, use it for a stepping stone to a better life. The military provides security. The same people who hate the military would be crying for them if it came down to it. It is a necessity.

I think the Iraq war was a disgusting mistake. But sometimes war is necessary if you are defending yourself. And the people who have the guts to possibly die for innocents shouldn't be called insane or immature or whatever else they're shortsightedly called here.

[steevo]

I think the Iraq war was a disgusting mistake. But sometimes war is necessary if you are defending yourself. And the people who have the guts to possibly die for innocents shouldn't be called insane or immature or whatever else they're shortsightedly called here.

We know that we should defend ourselves when it's necessary but WE are the ones who INVADED Iraq and Afghanistan, we are the aggressor. We are the bad guys. And as for the soldiers who are "mature" and "sane" who are in Iraq, they havent been told the truth of why they are even there. Let's start by telling them the truth and see what happens. Do you think that they should know the truth ?

[shellygurrrl]

We know that we should defend ourselves when it's necessary but WE are the ones who INVADED Iraq and Afghanistan, we are the aggressor. We are the bad guys. And as for the soldiers who are "mature" and "sane" who are in Iraq, they havent been told the truth of why they are even there. Let's start by telling them the truth and see what happens. Do you think that they should know the truth ?
I think we - Americans - had every right to invade Afghanistan. Iraq - no.

I don't think it makes us bad guys, but it's those who manipulated and lied to get us there. Politicians and upper level officers in the military (and not even all of them know what's really going on).

You'd be surprised how many people in the military know the Iraq war is a crock of shit. They're not all the sheep many portray them here to be.

Although, yeah, a lot of them just do what they're told. It's not a black and white issue.

[boots]

I think we - Americans - had every right to invade Afghanistan.

You have got to be kidding me.

FFS. Bin Laden was CIA.


.......Not even worth going on, if you have this type of mind set.

O Yeah, now the opium sale have increased:rolleyes: just what the drug lords in the American government wanted.

Right to invade Afghanistan . What a joke.


Quote from Nick Rockefella.

Rockefeller also told Russo that he would see soldiers looking in caves in Afghanistan and Pakistan for Osama bin Laden and that there would be an "Endless war on terror where there's no real enemy and the whole thing is a giant hoax," so that "the government could take over the American people," according to Russo, who said that Rockefeller was cynically laughing and joking as he made the astounding prediction.

[lizzy]

You have got to be kidding me.

FFS. Bin Laden was CIA.


.......Not even worth going on, if you have this type of mind set.

O Yeah, now the opium sale have increased:rolleyes: just what the drug lords in the American government wanted.

Right to invade Afghanistan . What a joke.


Quote from Nick Rockefella.

Rockefeller also told Russo that he would see soldiers looking in caves in Afghanistan and Pakistan for Osama bin Laden and that there would be an "Endless war on terror where there's no real enemy and the whole thing is a giant hoax," so that "the government could take over the American people," according to Russo, who said that Rockefeller was cynically laughing and joking as he made the astounding prediction.


My god boots , it's like teaching 1st grade is'nt it??? :D

[lizzy]

I think we - Americans - had every right to invade Afghanistan. Iraq - no.

I don't think it makes us bad guys, but it's those who manipulated and lied to get us there. Politicians and upper level officers in the military (and not even all of them know what's really going on).

You'd be surprised how many people in the military know the Iraq war is a crock of shit. They're not all the sheep many portray them here to be.

Although, yeah, a lot of them just do what they're told. It's not a black and white issue.


sorry shellygurrrl,.....Afganistan was all part of the plan to getinto Iraq, they need Afganistan (besides making the C I A drug dealers a bit richer) to make sure the gas pipeline went through there form the Caucuses. It has a history of independance it had to be subverted and conquered first in TPTB war on Islam.

[danster82]

Whats in these videos is obviously tame.

What the general attitude reminds me off is school and the general population of north London which I can vouch for personally so its nothing new really if this is insane then the vast majority of people I have grown up around are also insane which is true. Obviously in war it gets far far worse than this video shows.

[noobcybot]

I ask for evidence because what you claim is very serious. There are MANY flaws with any type of military organization, but allowing psychopaths and schizophrenics willingly is something I have NEVER seen evidence of. The military may let questionable folks in sometimes - we all know the stories about them giving more waivers for crimes and drug use.

I know from personal firsthand experience, the military looks down on those with mental health issues. They don't champion it as something that is cool and harmless. That is why I question what you claim. That is not to say people don't lie and claim they are healthy when they are not. People do get in the military with medical issues because they hide it. The doctors approving and testing people do not take this lightly. They aren't going to willingly let in people who have serious mental issues.
I'm the first to agree that wars are started by politicians, and I hate politicians. But the average soldiers are not being evil. They are trying to stay alive. Millions of soldiers over time have never seen battle, nor do they lose limbs or life. It is the exception when someone dies, not the norm. So job security is a very valid reason to join. You have more chance of dying in a car crash than getting shot at in the military.

One could make any occupation "evil." What about businessmen (and women) who work for companies that promote fraud, worker abuse, and other corruption? That could be ANY company. What, are we all supposed to not work because we are inevitably somehow supporting something "bad?"


I think you're speaking from blind emotionality and not seeing the bigger picture. I agree with some of what you're saying. Because I don't believe troops are going insane hardly means I support war or the politicians.

What a lot of people don't seem to realize here is that the military does much good. They aren't all trigger happy goons, without a brain to think for themselves. Most are just trying to make a living, use it for a stepping stone to a better life. The military provides security. The same people who hate the military would be crying for them if it came down to it. It is a necessity.

I think the Iraq war was a disgusting mistake. But sometimes war is necessary if you are defending yourself. And the people who have the guts to possibly die for innocents shouldn't be called insane or immature or whatever else they're shortsightedly called here.


If you have not seen evidence of this type of thing happening then I would suggest you "first hand experience" is somewhat limited. It is not a serious allegation to make in comparison to some of things the armed forces of the world have done, are still doing and will continue to if young people keep joining up. That bit of anecdotal evidence I gave I believe is true because it was given to me by a very reliable source so I respectifully ask you to take it or leave it. I could easily ask you to provide evidence of your first hand experiences but I do not for the sake of continuity.
You seem to choose arguments that suit you, for example seem to state the I made out the army ( again you are probably talking about the American military specifically ) somehow thought mental illness was cool and harmless, which I did not. You simply dont understand what the British army is like and was like in the late 80s when said incident occoured, put simply its a bit rough. You need to be thinking more 'Full Metal Jacket' and less 'Jarhead'.
Again you imply that people here generally think all soldiers are evil when it has been repeatedly stated that is not the case.
The point you make about any company/business being evil by way of contribution makes no sense. Where do you draw the line? I know its an old chestnut but were the SS Deathshead just trying to get by? People rightly criticise them to this day but even they had more to lose (their life and freedom) than an American joining the army for "job security".
You keep making assumptions about people, for example why do you have to say "businessmen (and women)", do you consider that people on a site like this might not need to have it pointed out to them that there are business men AND women? Dont you think that they just might have endless points about this type of programming?
Might you explain how exactly you came to the conclusion I have been speaking from "blind emotionallity"? Might you explain how it is me unable seeing the bigger picture and not yourself?
I never said I thought you didnt support politicians (by this I guess you mean pro-war politicians at this moment in time), you are just seeing what you want to again. No one said they thoght all soldiers were trigger happy goons, without brains. Some of the most intelligent (IQ and EQ) people I know are soldiers, it doesant mean they are seeing how they are being taken advantage of.
You say the military provides security, but you dont say for whom. Think about this, how many people have died in terrorist attacks in the USA? Even assuming its not an inside job dont you know how many civil liberties have been taken away form 'the land of the free' by Bush administration under the guise of protecting you?
Let me show you how you contradict yourself. More than likely you meant there is more of a chance of a soldier being killed in a car crash than a soldier dieing through being shot ( does exclude death by explosive concussion,shrapnel etc?) then you say war and the military are needed for protection. Does it add up? The why not have all the soldiers become road safety inspectors?
Then you start talking about the guts to save innocents. And certain people would be crying for the military when the time came. Which again seems a bit childish, and a bit "short-sighted".
So lets get back to something we can actually flesh out.
Tell me why, assuming 911 wasnt an inside job, it was acceptable to attack Afghanistan.

[noobcybot]

I think we - Americans - had every right to invade Afghanistan. Iraq - no.

I don't think it makes us bad guys, but it's those who manipulated and lied to get us there. Politicians and upper level officers in the military (and not even all of them know what's really going on).

You'd be surprised how many people in the military know the Iraq war is a crock of shit. They're not all the sheep many portray them here to be.

Although, yeah, a lot of them just do what they're told. It's not a black and white issue.

So, if iam clear you think that American Soldiers should not be called evil or naive.

And so you have contradicted yourself again.

Soldiers who think they are doing the right thing = Naive
Soldiers who are just following orders = Easily conditioned to commmit evil acts.
Soldiers who think its "a crock of shit" but are still there = Either tricked into joining under the guise of helping people, and so naive. Or they just dont care/ put it out of their minds = Selfish and evil.

[shellygurrrl]

So, if iam clear you think that American Soldiers should not be called evil or naive.

And so you have contradicted yourself again.

Soldiers who think they are doing the right thing = Naive
Soldiers who are just following orders = Easily conditioned to commmit evil acts.
Soldiers who think its "a crock of shit" but are still there = Either tricked into joining under the guise of helping people, and so naive. Or they just dont care/ put it out of their minds = Selfish and evil.
I don't believe you should paint the whole lot as anything. There are definitely isolated cases that can back up anyone's claims.

And actually, no I don't think you should call them evil. Are some of their actions evil? YES. I myself could act in a way that, at that time, might make me "evil" to someone - but does that make me overall evil?

I think you've come to generalized conclusions based on seeing a very small piece of the big picture.

Soldiers do not have to kill innocent people, even if they are given an order to do so. They have to follow the rules of engagement, which are actually very strict. I do not think someone trying to kill me is innocent, so I would have no trouble trying to kill them before they did me in.

[shellygurrrl]

You have got to be kidding me.

FFS. Bin Laden was CIA.


.......Not even worth going on, if you have this type of mind set.

O Yeah, now the opium sale have increased:rolleyes: just what the drug lords in the American government wanted.

Right to invade Afghanistan . What a joke.


Quote from Nick Rockefella.

Rockefeller also told Russo that he would see soldiers looking in caves in Afghanistan and Pakistan for Osama bin Laden and that there would be an "Endless war on terror where there's no real enemy and the whole thing is a giant hoax," so that "the government could take over the American people," according to Russo, who said that Rockefeller was cynically laughing and joking as he made the astounding prediction.

I haven't seen any evidence that Bin Laden was CIA.

[shellygurrrl]

sorry shellygurrrl,.....Afganistan was all part of the plan to getinto Iraq, they need Afganistan (besides making the C I A drug dealers a bit richer) to make sure the gas pipeline went through there form the Caucuses. It has a history of independance it had to be subverted and conquered first in TPTB war on Islam.
Never heard this theory before.

[mynameis]

I haven't seen any evidence that Bin Laden was CIA.


About Tim Osman (skeptical)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/binladen_cia.html

Better is the time line of association with CIA & ISI
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a1980ssayyafafghan

Clincher

CIA Says It Didn't Meet With bin Laden

NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, Nov. 1, 2001

WASHINGTON – CIA officials Wednesday rejected a French newspaper report that one of their agents allegedly met with terrorist mastermind Osama bin laden in July.

The Saudi underwent treatment for kidney problems at an American hospital in Dubai, France's Le Figaro newspaper reported Wednesday.

"Complete and utter nonsense," said Anya Guilsher, a spokeswoman for the Central Intelligence Agency. "It's false, and I told Le Figaro that, too."

Bin Laden reportedly checked into American Hospital Dubai, a 100-bed, acute-care general hospital, on July 4 and stayed until July 14. He arrived from Quetta, Pakistan, accompanied by his doctor and a close aide, possibly Ayman el Zawahiri, a leader of Egypt's Islamic Jihad, the newspaper said.

Le Figaro cited a "professional partner" linked to the hospital's management as its source.

Besides a stream of local dignitaries and family members, bin Laden's visitors included a CIA agent, the newspaper claimed. The agent was widely recognized locally, Le Figaro said, and later told several friends of the meeting.

The alleged American agent was called back to the CIA's McLean, Va., headquarters on July 15, a day after bin Laden checked out, Le Figaro reported, citing "authorized sources."

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/10/31/163622.shtml

[shellygurrrl]

I'll definitely look into that. Thanks!

[noobcybot]

Please stop saying that I am missing the bigger picture Shelly, especially without really backing it up.
It is unreasonable for you to claim I am missing the bigger picture when you are not even aware of the possibility that war with Afghanistan (this is intrinsicly linked with the whole 9/11 thing!) was a ploy to take war to the middle east in general. 9/11, it just might have been an inside job you know, remember that it was the official reason to go to war in Afghanistan.
Again I have to state that I do not think all soldiers are evil full stop, I think there very few people in the world you could class as evil. I know that many soldiers are good people.
But here is my point, if an invading army is in a country that is not theirs then they will inevitably cause suffering and nearly always more harm than good, especially if they are there for an unjust reason and the people resoponsible at the top of the military are unable to maintain control of the troops.

[dangermouse2]

Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdyN2_GJmP8&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kG1HLiTuEg&NR=1

[steevo]

Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdyN2_GJmP8&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kG1HLiTuEg&NR=1

Someone needs to have a FRIENDLY chat with those soldiers that are doing those silly things. Those soldiers themselves dont even know why they are doing it. The people in charge of the armies do not want to help these guys get out of that dangererous state of mind because it benefits "the powers that be" to have people like that working for them because those particular soldiers are likely to be the EASIEST OF ALL to manipulate into carrying out their attrocities.

[turbine]

I really hope the prick at the end who throws the puppy get's what he deserves. ******* ******.

That's totally unacceptable along with everything else done this that video.

[tothestars]

I think we - Americans - had every right to invade Afghanistan.

Yeah you needed that pipeline ...

[danster82]

People say you should support the troops regardless of the reason they are out there but quite frankly NO, you do not get my support, I do not support war under any circumstances and therefore I do not support you, You are not fighting for my freedoms you are fighting for the opposite my slavery and if you want proof of this one example is the economic slavery we are now further indebted to with higher oil prices and war debt. soldiers are responsible for the death of innocent people not governments or institutions, this is a key point because people have to take personal responsibility's for their freewill choices and if they personally didn't kill then they were complicit in the killing. I answer to God alone and Life does not support death therefore I do not support "our troops" in any way shape or form. (there is no such thing as "our troops" when you do not distinguish between nation or race)

It is a shame that innocently ignorant soilders really do feel they are fighting for our freedoms and this situation is truly sad but it does not justify my support of the killing of innocence., they chose not to listen to the antiwar voice and so they are learning through the school of hard knocks.

[phaid]

Last night I watched Nick Broomfield's dramatised documentary film 'Battle For Haditha', based on incidents that happened in Haditha in late 2005, and I wasn't sure that I was going to enjoy it (if one can enjoy looking at the Iraq conflict) or stay the course for the whole film but I'm glad I did.

It seems like a pretty unbiased film. The film-makers don't take any side, they just try to show the viewer what craziness is going on. You've got the young US Marine types who are trying to get through their tour of duty and go home alive, wondering why they're actually there, you've got the 'insurgents' who are planting bombs etc. (encouraged and supplied by 'Al Qaeda' foreign militants) and you've got the people trying to get on with their lives but who are caught in the middle. Also there is a subtext questioning the motivations of the higher-ups who give the orders.

The US marine corporal who's in charge of the squad we follow complains of not being able to sleep because of nightmares about what he's seen and when he asks to see a doctor is told that he'll have to wait until his tour is over.
A few hours later, the squad is ambushed and this guy goes ballistic in retaliation.

I won't give any more away, but it's worth seeing IMHO. The mortal damage & psychological scars (or lack of them) caused by the consequences of peoples' actions is well observed.

http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0870211/

[lostwonderer]

Last night I watched Nick Broomfield's dramatised documentary film 'Battle For Haditha', based on incidents that happened in Haditha in late 2005, and I wasn't sure that I was going to enjoy it (if one can enjoy looking at the Iraq conflict) or stay the course for the whole film but I'm glad I did.

It seems like a pretty unbiased film. The film-makers don't take any side, they just try to show the viewer what craziness is going on. You've got the young US Marine types who are trying to get through their tour of duty and go home alive, wondering why they're actually there, you've got the 'insurgents' who are planting bombs etc. (encouraged and supplied by 'Al Qaeda' foreign militants) and you've got the people trying to get on with their lives but who are caught in the middle. Also there is a subtext questioning the motivations of the higher-ups who give the orders.

The US marine corporal who's in charge of the squad we follow complains of not being able to sleep because of nightmares about what he's seen and when he asks to see a doctor is told that he'll have to wait until his tour is over.
A few hours later, the squad is ambushed and this guy goes ballistic in retaliation.

I won't give any more away, but it's worth seeing IMHO. The mortal damage & psychological scars (or lack of them) caused by the consequences of peoples' actions is well observed.

http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0870211/
yeh i watched this on tele a few months ago,reminded if the mark of cain,showing the amount of psychological damage it can do to some,it really gets to you.

[phaid]

yeh i watched this on tele a few months ago,reminded if the mark of cain,showing the amount of psychological damage it can do to some,it really gets to you.

I'm not sure that I've seen this, thanks for the heads-up.