Jobless UK Youths To Be Put Into Camps

[logic bomb]

Jobless UK Youths To Be Put Into Camps

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/may/26/conservatives.welfare


A future Conservative government will bring in "boot camps" for unemployed young people aged between 18 and 21 who refuse to take a job, Chris Grayling, the party's welfare spokesman, will say tomorrow.

In a significant hardening of Conservative policy towards welfare claimants, he will announce the abolition of benefit payments for any able-bodied person under 21 who is out of work for more than three months and who refuses to go on a compulsory community service programme or a "boot camp" training course aimed at improving their work discipline and giving them basic skills to get a job.

Grayling plans to ask private sector companies and voluntary organisations to run the intensive training centres - with the £5,000 it costs to support a single person on the dole being offered to the company or voluntary group once the person has been in work for one year. Individuals will be expected to report to the centre every day for an intensive training programme.

Some private companies - notably the Australian firm Work Directions - have successfully bid for business from Labour on a " bonus basis" to get the disabled back to work.

Grayling will say: "We plan to introduce much tougher rules for young people under the age of 21 claiming jobseeker's allowance. For this group, the welfare to work process will start much earlier. There will be employment 'boot camps' and community work programmes for those who don't find a job. Staying at home doing nothing will be a thing of the past."

Under the Tory proposals, unemployed young people who do not find a job within three months will be referred automatically to a specialist employment provider, where they will be expected to take part in an intensive programme of work-related activity. If they spend 12 months out of work, they will then be moved on to a full-time community work programme lasting a further year.

The hardening of Tory attitudes towards the unemployed will be combined with much tougher polices than Labour to get single parents and the disabled back to work, and a big move to privatise provision to help the unemployed. Ultimately the move could see the end of state-funded Jobcentres and a big reduction in size of the Department for Work and Pensions, which has already lost 30,000 jobs under Labour.

Grayling will also announce a clampdown on those who misuse government training programmes. This follows disclosures that government claims to have retrained three million people on the New Deal were false after 750,000 people were found to have been on the training programme twice, and a few dozen as many as six times. Some people also avoid going on the programme by signing off benefits for a week when they are due to go on the programme, only to sign on again a short time later.

Grayling will say: "Under our proposals, there will be no room for that kind of manoeuvre. In that situation, the clock will simply be frozen. It won't be reset to zero again. With this approach, for those who are struggling there will be real help. For those who are not, there will be no opt-outs. We will end the street-corner benefit culture among young people which this government has left to fester for the past 11 years."

The measures should cut crime because people would not be hanging around with nothing to do, Grayling will say. For those who decided to embark on a life of crime because they would not work and could not get benefit, there would be "zero tolerance from the criminal justice system".

[grannymoose]

street corners will look a bit better then, these yobs are a sodding joke. everynight at our local shop theres no less then 27 youths between the age 16 upwards, after pettions and complaints to the council there still there. Every street is over run by them, i,m not joking nither and this goes on untill 1 am to 2am in the morning.

"The measures should cut crime because people would not be hanging around with nothing to do, Grayling will say. For those who decided to embark on a life of crime because they would not work and could not get benefit, there would be "zero tolerance from the criminal justice system".

Thats whats needed.

[meave]

these schemes always involve so form of working for nothing sorry extra £10 a week on top of brew money while working next to somebody that gets paid a wage then no job at the end this is just away of moving the unemployment numbers around it doesn't create self worth

[cheeney1]

They've Got That Here For Years It Didn't Work and still Doesn't Just Hides Unemployment Figs For Government What a Wonderful Job We've Done By Lowering Unemployment..:rolleyes:

[the itinerant shrubber]

Lets use the american system of food stamps. What do you think an enemployed person does when he's handed a wad of cash? Just give them the means to feed themselves and thats it. Life without luxurys will soon get them looking for work.

[cheeney1]

Lets use the american system of food stamps. What do you think an enemployed person does when he's handed a wad of cash? Just give them the means to feed themselves and thats it. Life without luxurys will soon get them looking for work.

Yeah Thats sound Right, what about a Big sign they have to wear around there Heads saying I'm An Unemployed BUM..:rolleyes:

[kweli]

Lets use the american system of food stamps. What do you think an enemployed person does when he's handed a wad of cash? Just give them the means to feed themselves and thats it. Life without luxurys will soon get them looking for work.

Hey, better still, bring back conscription, get em all enlisted! That'll show em!! :rolleyes:

[mightiswrong]

Both conscription and these 'boot camps' are forms of slavery. What is needed is to return to the people the land that is rightfully theirs. With land a person can grow food and be free from dependence on the system.

[kweli]

Both conscription and these 'boot camps' are forms of slavery. What is needed is to return to the people the land that is rightfully theirs. With land a person can grow food and be free from dependence on the system.

I was joking, hence the sarcastic smiley.

[beldazar]

This is a sick sorry system we live in! We certainly are not living this life properly are we? I really, really want to go back to living how our native people do.

Kids dont have anything to do in city centres, theres no exploring to be done anywhere and evey piece of land is owned by someone! This life is so wrong!

[the itinerant shrubber]

Oh yes,lets all feel sorry for the people who cant be bothered to work shall we.
We are being bred to be dependent and weak. Thats why the people who wont work are looked after and housed and the junkies are provided with clean needles and help while the ones who are independent are taxed to the hilt and penalized for working.
The ignorant and idle are being encouraged to breed so future generations will be easier to control and manipulate. If you want to cure Britains society of its ills,pull the plug on the entire country for a year. No electricity and no hand-outs. Let natural selection take over instead of going against nature.

[grannymoose]

Both conscription and these 'boot camps' are forms of slavery. What is needed is to return to the people the land that is rightfully theirs. With land a person can grow food and be free from dependence on the system.

that would work a treat, as right now across the road is the thug and his 7 freinds drinking carling black label lager at 2 pm in the afternoon, standing outside the shops who only last saturday mugged a 11 year old of his bike and phone and leaving him a blooded nose, when only going to the shop to buy rusks for his sister, arrested saturday back out for tea time.
this person is free to do has he chooses at any cost is he not.

[rixxmixxhell]

This is a sick sorry system we live in! We certainly are not living this life properly are we? I really, really want to go back to living how our native people do.

Kids dont have anything to do in city centres, theres no exploring to be done anywhere and evey piece of land is owned by someone! This life is so wrong!

Damn that is so right mate, exactly what i think. I grew up in north London, but from a very young age i used to travel to the lea valley woods and camp buy myself, and fish, all at about 11- 15 before i found girls ;) but that wasmy only escape and release and experiencing,apart from living in a city, all you can do is work, sit on a bus, or go into crime.

[the itinerant shrubber]

Damn that is so right mate, exactly what i think. I grew up in north London, but from a very young age i used to travel to the lea valley woods and camp buy myself, and fish, all at about 11- 15 before i found girls ;) but that wasmy only escape and release and experiencing,apart from living in a city, all you can do is work, sit on a bus, or go into crime.

Pretty much goes for living in the country too. At least you have warm shopping malls to hang about in during the winter.

[steevo]

Oh yes,lets all feel sorry for the people who cant be bothered to work shall we.
We are being bred to be dependent and weak. Thats why the people who wont work are looked after and housed and the junkies are provided with clean needles and help while the ones who are independent are taxed to the hilt and penalized for working.
The ignorant and idle are being encouraged to breed so future generations will be easier to control and manipulate. If you want to cure Britains society of its ills,pull the plug on the entire country for a year. No electricity and no hand-outs. Let natural selection take over instead of going against nature.

I'm sorry but that sounds like something from Nazi Germany. If we let nature take it's course I suspect we would have a better world where our fellow man would help each other. The natural selection thing is for wild animals not humans. Unlike the other animals, we have been given a brain that has the ability to SOLVE problems but the "powers that be" are using their brains to CREATE problems for their own ends.

These kids have been manipulated into being what they are. The system is wrong like beldazar says and is rotten to the core

[beldazar]

To be honest when I read the post from Itinerant shrubber, my first thought was 'heil hitler' but I didnt want to upset anyone.

Thanks for the support Rixmixx and Steevo, the human race isnt lost after all :)

[the itinerant shrubber]

I'm sorry but that sounds like something from Nazi Germany. If we let nature take it's course I suspect we would have a better world where our fellow man would help each other. The natural selection thing is for wild animals not humans. Unlike the other animals, we have been given a brain that has the ability to SOLVE problems but the "powers that be" are using their brains to CREATE problems for their own ends.

These kids have been manipulated into being what they are. The system is wrong like beldazar says and is rotten to the core

So why havnt you been manipulated into being a yob or just someone who sponges of the state? Are you superior in some way? Other animals are capable of looking after themselves.How many westerners can say the same?

I was bored and broke as a teenager too and where I lived we had one shop and several pubs we couldnt get into because we were underage. We got hold of booze and we got pissed but we never vandalized peoples property or hurt anyone. Stop making excuses for people. When ignorant people breed,they produce ignorant children.
The people who 100 years ago would of died of alcoholism and disease in the gutter long before their time are now being supported and housed by the state;part of a deliberate programme of breeding ignorant peasantry and they are breeding like rabbits.

When me and my young family had no house to live in and only a tent,I managed to secure regular work.When we were given emergency accommodation, I still worked and provided for my family. All the time these poor,manipulated youths were burgelerising the apartments and when they couldn't get into any of the apartments where other young families lived,they would shit on the pushchairs that were left downstairs in the hall. One time an air rifle pellet narrowly missed my then 6 year old son so why exactly should I care about these sort of people?

Feel sorry for them if you wish but they sure as hell dont give a shit about you. You cant blame the powers that be for everything. We all have a personal responsibiliy and we all have choices in our lives. You can choose to be a shit stain on the world;a less than human chatel of the new world order or you choose to be a human being who lives with dignity and honour.Those who choose the former are not worthy of my time and attention. The longer I live and the more I see,the more abhorrent western "civilisation" seems to me.

[steevo]

So why havnt you been manipulated into being a yob or just someone who sponges of the state? Are you superior in some way? Other animals are capable of looking after themselves.How many westerners can say the same?

I was bored and broke as a teenager too and where I lived we had one shop and several pubs we couldnt get into because we were underage. We got hold of booze and we got pissed but we never vandalized peoples property or hurt anyone. Stop making excuses for people. When ignorant people breed,they produce ignorant children.
The people who 100 years ago would of died of alcoholism and disease in the gutter long before their time are now being supported and housed by the state;part of a deliberate programme of breeding ignorant peasantry and they are breeding like rabbits.

When me and my young family had no house to live in and only a tent,I managed to secure regular work.When we were given emergency accommodation, I still worked and provided for my family. All the time these poor,manipulated youths were burgelerising the apartments and when they couldn't get into any of the apartments where other young families lived,they would shit on the pushchairs that were left downstairs in the hall. One time an air rifle pellet narrowly missed my then 6 year old son so why exactly should I care about these sort of people?

Feel sorry for them if you wish but they sure as hell dont give a shit about you. You cant blame the powers that be for everything. We all have a personal responsibiliy and we all have choices in our lives. You can choose to be a shit stain on the world;a less than human chatel of the new world order or you choose to be a human being who lives with dignity and honour.Those who choose the former are not worthy of my time and attention. The longer I live and the more I see,the more abhorrent western "civilisation" seems to me.

We have ALL been manipulated, me and you included. It has effected us all in different ways depending on how manipulated your parents were, who you mixed with and how intuitive you are etc

[kweli]

We have ALL been manipulated, me and you included. It has effected us all in different ways depending on how manipulated your parents were, who you mixed with and how intuitive you are etc

Exactly.

I'm in no way defending acts of mindless vandalism or violence. But take a generation of kids, poison them with whatever chemicals you can - vaccinations/water supply/food supply/in the very air they breathe! Dumb em down with the education system, program them through - TV/video games etc; break up their family life, their neighbourhoods. Stigmatize them ALL, by labelling them knife weilding hoodies! Take away their freedom... Jeez I could go on & on here.

Many kids today, have no hope of a decent future, they're seriously disillusioned. These so called 'Yobs' are manufactured by 'the System' I spend an awful lot of time around youngsters/Teens, I listen to them, perhaps you should give it a try IS, maybe then, you'll realise what it means to be a teenager in 2008, and stop jumping on the MSM bandwagon.

[informationx]

Ill decode the latest conservatie diatribe.

Elitist pricks who employ cousins and family members (not what you know, its who you know) who will say and do anything to gain power, want to enforce a kind of work fascism. Forcing those young minds who have figured out what a load of bollocks the system is, into mindless soul destroying positions.

If as a young person you stand up to this kind of thought crime, any means of your survival will be stripped from you.

As I suspected many years ago unemployment now equals crime.

And by the way cameron employs his sister in law. Pays to know people in the right places eh?

I wonder if the position she holds was up for interview by other people?

Cue the Daleks "OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!"

lol :D

[jim fear]

I was going to leave a long-winded reply, but it’s just a waste of time ands energy, so I’ll just say this to Kweli, Beldazar, and steevo:

When you dive under water and stay down for a little to long you’ll feel like your lungs are about to burst, and you swim to the service as fast as you can and as you surface and take that breath in, that first huge breath you’ll feel a euphoria which can’t be put into words, and people like you are my breath air, people like you have seen though it all and come out the other side and you restore my faith in mankind and it’s hope of a future.

[element]

Parents should take better responsibility of the children and show themself as a good example, so the children have something to strife for.These goverment actions are the wrong way in my opinion.

[drhemp]

There are always people who don't want to work, to be honest, who can blame them, they have been trying to stop these people for years but the reality is they never will, they will always find a way round the rules to get benefits, short of stopping them completely, which would present problems in any case. They can't stop benefits to people with children, they can't really shove people out on the streets, and crime will increase, if people have no money from the State; people who receive benefits tend to spend it all, rather than save it, so it all goes back into the economy; they spend much more on benefits in other European countries, such as Holland, where I am writing this post from now than they do in the UK; personally I'm more offended that my tax payers money goes on weapons and arms to kill and maim innocent people in illegal wars, than the fact that some of it goes to help the poorest people in society get by.

[ennui]

these schemes always involve so form of working for nothing sorry extra £10 a week on top of brew money while working next to somebody that gets paid a wage then no job at the end this is just away of moving the unemployment numbers around it doesn't create self worth

Yes I know. I did that for 6 months cos' no one would give me a job cos' I didn't have any experience. I did that plus one day a week business course. Worked though in the long term cos' I got a job now and now I earn more than the people I did work experience with.

Sometimes you have to suck dick to get somewhere.

[pri01]

The way I see it, there are always going to be jobless in this system. There can never be an abundance of jobs since many people would not be motivated to do some of the less favourable ones. Keep the adult population on it's toes by providing just enough jobs paying the minimum wage to have them scrambling for them is the way it works.

You also have the spoilt generation to contend with too. I know that some higher earning families indulge their kids to the extent that they too are unable to present themselves appropriately for employment. Why should they? Some have everything provided for them there is no motivation to work themselves.

[lightgiver]

the kids need education and skills,not camps:confused:
lets hope its not FEMA style camps,eh,:eek:;)
love that dog cheeney 1:D

[matthew84]

In the Uk, if you earn anything less than £18k p/a you are better off claiming benefits, especially if you can get council tax/housing benefit.

This labour govnmnt are taxing the poor disproportionately and I don't blame anyone for claiming off the state.

I, personally, do not, claim any benefit, but I have worked in many a job where I would have been better off had I been claiming.

I view it as a radical way of non-compliance with the system and more power to anyone who does it; in saying that I am not condoning abusive/violent behaviour in any way.

[lightgiver]

New Labour=New world order:eek:;)

[thankyoudave]

I'll be honest here I have agoraphobia and have been unemployed for some time claiming incapacity benifits. Pretty much housebound. I guess some people on here would rather see me dead with this "natural selection" talk.

Obviously I dont want to stay like this, its a miserable, lonely existence but I dont fancy being sent to some "unemployment camp" either. Sounds like a soul destroyer.

John Hagee's opinion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmFaNnRy40o

STARVE!!!!

[cheeney1]

the kids need education and skills,not camps:confused:
lets hope its not FEMA style camps,eh,:eek:;)
love that dog cheeney 1:D

He's Me Mate, Cookie The Fox Terror...Goes Everywhere I Go Even Going To Oz With me..:D

[cheeney1]

Oh yes,lets all feel sorry for the people who cant be bothered to work shall we.
We are being bred to be dependent and weak. Thats why the people who wont work are looked after and housed and the junkies are provided with clean needles and help while the ones who are independent are taxed to the hilt and penalized for working.
The ignorant and idle are being encouraged to breed so future generations will be easier to control and manipulate. If you want to cure Britains society of its ills,pull the plug on the entire country for a year. No electricity and no hand-outs. Let natural selection take over instead of going against nature.

I actually feel sorry for you, You need to take some cod liver oil..:D

[informationx]

I'll be honest here I have agoraphobia and have been unemployed for some time claiming incapacity benifits. Pretty much housebound. I guess some people on here would rather see me dead with this "natural selection" talk.

Obviously I dont want to stay like this, its a miserable, lonely existence but I dont fancy being sent to some "unemployment camp" either. Sounds like a soul destroyer.

John Hagee's opinion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmFaNnRy40o

STARVE!!!!

I dont want to see you dead, I wish you all the success and happiness in the world. :D

[scottmurray]

Lets use the american system of food stamps. What do you think an enemployed person does when he's handed a wad of cash? Just give them the means to feed themselves and thats it. Life without luxurys will soon get them looking for work.
i listened to a girl i know on benifits compalining the other day..........that you now have to spend baby milk tokens on baby milk where you used to be able to spend it on anything this just about sums it up in my mind tradeing her babys milk for vodka is what she used to do and i dont expect she was the only one.......how awfull

[the itinerant shrubber]

I actually feel sorry for you, You need to take some cod liver oil..:D

No,I need a sniper rifle.
All this talk of camps is obviously bullshit anyway. You're all selectively believing at face value what politicians say becouse it fits in with everyones world view on here. Since when did we start believing anything politicians say?
If they'd said they were all going to give everyone a car and a plot of land to grow on,no one here would of believed it.
The agenda is to fragment society and continue with the totalitarian tip-toe. How are they going to do that when the very excuse they use for half of the fascist policies they make are all in camps instead of running riot in the streets. I'm talking about the yobs here and not unemployed people generally but thats the impression they're trying to give to the bovine public.
It's just another lie to try and get themselves elected. Think about it...:rolleyes:

[redhead]

Exactly.

I'm in no way defending acts of mindless vandalism or violence. But take a generation of kids, poison them with whatever chemicals you can - vaccinations/water supply/food supply/in the very air they breathe! Dumb em down with the education system, program them through - TV/video games etc; break up their family life, their neighbourhoods. Stigmatize them ALL, by labelling them knife weilding hoodies! Take away their freedom... Jeez I could go on & on here.

Many kids today, have no hope of a decent future, they're seriously disillusioned. These so called 'Yobs' are manufactured by 'the System' I spend an awful lot of time around youngsters/Teens, I listen to them, perhaps you should give it a try IS, maybe then, you'll realise what it means to be a teenager in 2008, and stop jumping on the MSM bandwagon.

Well said that man, i do voluntary youth work and i see this all the time, all the kids need is something to do, someone to take an intrest in them and to be there for them.

[mad as a cat]

What is needed is to return to the people the land that is rightfully theirs. With land a person can grow food and be free from dependence on the system.

Having read through this thread, this post really sticks out.
Well said!
:D

[redhead]

I've just had another thought, get the camps up and running for the kids first so the public accept them then when the id cards/microchip comes in all those who refuse won't be able to interact with the system therefore making themselves unemployable, hence more camps, which the public will have already accepted as the norm.

[the itinerant shrubber]

Well said that man, i do voluntary youth work and i see this all the time, all the kids need is something to do, someone to take an intrest in them and to be there for them.

Aw bless... I had none of those things as a teenager 20 years ago either. No one cared about me,cared about what I thought or my opinions and I had bugger all to do living in rural suffolk. No mobile phones or Playstations or Ipods.
Thats your lot as a teenager. No one cares what they think becouse you dont know anything and havnt earned peoples respect yet and its always been that way but guess what-I didnt mug anyone,kill anyone,steal cars or vandalise anything and neither did the generations before me at least not on the scale it has become now.
People that do this dont need understanding and sympathy,they need to have consequences for their actions;something that is severely lacking at the moment and the main reason why some are like the way they are now.

[sorath]

I quit my soul destroying job 6 weeks ago and now recieve job seekers allowence every 14 days. I am searching for a new job but to be honest I do not see the point in getting a job which leaves me depressed. Alot of people will disagree with this and just say that I am work shy(like my parents) but this is not the case. I am sick to death of working 40+ hours a week only to be knackered every weekend and give most of my money up in taxes. Income tax, council tax, food tax, Tabacco tax etc etc.

No wonder the youth of today don't want to work. I myself have no problems working for a living at all. I used to work on a farm and did 12 hour shifts and the physical and emotional benefits of that were fantastic I can tell you. The camp idea is slavery and I hope it does go ahead. Maybe then the new generation will rebel and start this revolution that everyone is waiting for someone else to start. Fuck knows we need it!

[killmicrosoft]

COME ON PEOPLE WAKE UP SEE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING


No job=jsa ,is,ib

job losses=more unemployed

unemployed=jsa ,is,ib

jsa ,is,ib=forced labour

lack of jobs due to recession =only choice will be work for the government

only choice will be work for the government=fight for your country weather you like it or not or you and your family will suffer with no food no home no nothing



--------------------------------

[hagbard_celine]

street corners will look a bit better then, these yobs are a sodding joke. everynight at our local shop theres no less then 27 youths between the age 16 upwards, after pettions and complaints to the council there still there. Every street is over run by them, i,m not joking nither and this goes on untill 1 am to 2am in the morning.

"The measures should cut crime because people would not be hanging around with nothing to do, Grayling will say. For those who decided to embark on a life of crime because they would not work and could not get benefit, there would be "zero tolerance from the criminal justice system".

Thats whats needed.

But is it really worth a return of the workhouse?:confused:

The question to ask is: Why do some people refuse to work? What exactly is the state of mind called "lazy"? Could it be because work is usually an unpleasent thing to do. If we make it more enjoyable then people will want to do it. If you create a world where work is a dull chore where you lose all the democratic rights you enjoy out of work and get treated as a mindless cog in a machine then don't raise your hands in shock and indignation when some people take the option of refusing to do it! I honestly don't blame them. I was unemployed as a teenager for more than a year until I found one of the few jobs available I actually liked.

Check out this thread: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9061&highlight=workers+cooperatives

The number of people who are deliberately avoiding work is very small though. This becomes obvious during the last boomtime when unemployment in the UK fell to less than a million. What amazes me is that so many people still insist on the dignity of earning a wage when work in this world almost inevitably means exploitation, boredom and humiliation. Imagine what it would be like if we had a system of small workers cooperatives. I bet there'd be no able-bodied people unemployed at all! But government plans for getting people into work never address this. It's always "Oh, they're just lazy, let's put 'em in camps! Make 'em work!"

[mr_pixie]

Jobless UK Youths To Be Put Into Camps

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/may/26/conservatives.welfare


A future Conservative government will bring in "boot camps" for unemployed young people aged between 18 and 21 who refuse to take a job, Chris Grayling, the party's welfare spokesman, will say tomorrow.

In a significant hardening of Conservative policy towards welfare claimants, he will announce the abolition of benefit payments for any able-bodied person under 21 who is out of work for more than three months and who refuses to go on a compulsory community service programme or a "boot camp" training course aimed at improving their work discipline and giving them basic skills to get a job.

Grayling plans to ask private sector companies and voluntary organisations to run the intensive training centres - with the £5,000 it costs to support a single person on the dole being offered to the company or voluntary group once the person has been in work for one year. Individuals will be expected to report to the centre every day for an intensive training programme.

Some private companies - notably the Australian firm Work Directions - have successfully bid for business from Labour on a " bonus basis" to get the disabled back to work.

Grayling will say: "We plan to introduce much tougher rules for young people under the age of 21 claiming jobseeker's allowance. For this group, the welfare to work process will start much earlier. There will be employment 'boot camps' and community work programmes for those who don't find a job. Staying at home doing nothing will be a thing of the past."

Under the Tory proposals, unemployed young people who do not find a job within three months will be referred automatically to a specialist employment provider, where they will be expected to take part in an intensive programme of work-related activity. If they spend 12 months out of work, they will then be moved on to a full-time community work programme lasting a further year.

The hardening of Tory attitudes towards the unemployed will be combined with much tougher polices than Labour to get single parents and the disabled back to work, and a big move to privatise provision to help the unemployed. Ultimately the move could see the end of state-funded Jobcentres and a big reduction in size of the Department for Work and Pensions, which has already lost 30,000 jobs under Labour.

Grayling will also announce a clampdown on those who misuse government training programmes. This follows disclosures that government claims to have retrained three million people on the New Deal were false after 750,000 people were found to have been on the training programme twice, and a few dozen as many as six times. Some people also avoid going on the programme by signing off benefits for a week when they are due to go on the programme, only to sign on again a short time later.

Grayling will say: "Under our proposals, there will be no room for that kind of manoeuvre. In that situation, the clock will simply be frozen. It won't be reset to zero again. With this approach, for those who are struggling there will be real help. For those who are not, there will be no opt-outs. We will end the street-corner benefit culture among young people which this government has left to fester for the past 11 years."

The measures should cut crime because people would not be hanging around with nothing to do, Grayling will say. For those who decided to embark on a life of crime because they would not work and could not get benefit, there would be "zero tolerance from the criminal justice system".

I've just about had my fill of the way the dole treat people, they are trying to put sick people who carnt work into jobs.

[skyline]

The NWO social experiemnt has been a huge success yes we do have a generation of people who have no morals but its not their fault.Society is a mess with intention and the only proof we need is looking at the popularity of computer games, Grand theft Auto anyone,then chuck in a dollap of alcohol a bit of MTV cribbs showing people what they dont have and hey presto!

[fullfathomfive]

My girlfriend's little brother (12 yrs old) recently had a visit from British police because he and a friend phoned the American police saying they were from the Taliban. Initially I thought 'great', wish i'd thought of that, but then he said, and i quote, 'they can't do anything to me, i'm too young'.

Is it just me or have things got worse (in Britain) since the Children Act of 1989ish? (rhetorical question). Gangs have always been a problem (eg. scuttlers of salford) but at least when I was a lad (hovis music) we did a runner, rather than make peoples' lives a misery.

I don't believe that kids are so bored that they need to kick people to death.

[mad as a cat]

The NWO social experiemnt has been a huge success yes we do have a generation of people who have no morals but its not their fault.Society is a mess with intention and the only proof we need is looking at the popularity of computer games, Grand theft Auto anyone,then chuck in a dollap of alcohol a bit of MTV cribbs showing people what they dont have and hey presto!

Spot on!

[fullfathomfive]

The NWO social experiemnt has been a huge success yes we do have a generation of people who have no morals but its not their fault.Society is a mess with intention and the only proof we need is looking at the popularity of computer games, Grand theft Auto anyone,then chuck in a dollap of alcohol a bit of MTV cribbs showing people what they dont have and hey presto!

Spot on?