Police stop 'n' search - advice?

[krakhead]

On getting off at my local train station this evening there were police there with a metal detector (big walk through one like in an airport). They were stopping passengers, asking them to step through and searching any bags that were being carried.

They were looking for knives apparently, they asked me to step through, I asked what powers they were using for this, the officer who was talking to me looked to another officer, this other officer just shook his head then they let me carry on out of the station without being searched!

Does anyone know the legalities behind such a search? Because of their response to my question, I've begun to suspect there wasn't one!

[dondaz]

Next time get it on film so we can see it for ourselves!

[krakhead]

Next time get it on film so we can see it for ourselves!

Unfortunately there was no warning, just off the train and into the waiting hands of the local constabulary! I'm not in the habit of carrying a camera around with me! ;)

[clozaril]

i'm pretty sure the police can issue you with a 'section 60' this was brought in for footy violence.


http://www.freewebs.com/knowyourshit/knowyourrights.htm

If you have a bag they will search that, but again for weapons only. Any other items, documents, potentially incriminating articles are OFF LIMITS.

Do not allow them to examine any of your personal possessions (cash cards, student cards, diaries, organisers etc). This is not part of S60. Under Article 8 of the UK Human Rights Act 1998 your privacy is assured. Make sure they know this. They can only confiscate weapons and facial masking.

They have the power to use "reasonable force" but ONLY if you do not submit to a search. No other force can be used for any other purpose.

[pauldonz]

On getting off at my local train station this evening there were police there with a metal detector (big walk through one like in an airport). They were stopping passengers, asking them to step through and searching any bags that were being carried.

They were looking for knives apparently, they asked me to step through, I asked what powers they were using for this, the officer who was talking to me looked to another officer, this other officer just shook his head then they let me carry on out of the station without being searched!

Does anyone know the legalities behind such a search? Because of their response to my question, I've begun to suspect there wasn't one!

was just looking at ur logo there bud, noticed the bar code and the 729, not sure if this is true or not but i heard that each of the 3 longer lines on any bar code represents a 6, that neans the three lines represent 666........food for thought!

im sure i read somewhere ( possibily the BIBLE ) that nothing will be bought or sold except under the mark of the beast
OOOOoooo!

[bones]

On getting off at my local train station this evening there were police there with a metal detector (big walk through one like in an airport). They were stopping passengers, asking them to step through and searching any bags that were being carried.

They were looking for knives apparently, they asked me to step through, I asked what powers they were using for this, the officer who was talking to me looked to another officer, this other officer just shook his head then they let me carry on out of the station without being searched!

Does anyone know the legalities behind such a search? Because of their response to my question, I've begun to suspect there wasn't one!

any excuse to see this police state through krakhead, it disgusts me !!!

:mad:

[brokenshadow]

I carry a leather man multi-tool. It satisfies the legal requirements but has several knife blades. You can buy them in well stocked toy shops but I could be arrested for owning one. What a great country.

[tom bombadil]

I carry a leather man multi-tool. It satisfies the legal requirements but has several knife blades. You can buy them in well stocked toy shops but I could be arrested for owning one. What a great country.

Not exactly. See; http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html

Krachead, you just need to use your phone. Set it to record so that you can use it on utube with a simple download.

They cant stop you using it in the high street, but on the grounds of the station they might get a uniformed station assistant to ask you to stop.

In the case of any altication with the boys in blue, you just need to hang your phone around your neck after you have set it to record. They will ask you to turn it off. You stay in honour by saying that you will if they can tell you under what act that this 'turning off' relates to.
The same goes for name, age address etc. You will if they explain under which law.

If they give one to you and you dont know if it is the right one then you can always claim wrongfull arrest if they then find something incriminating on you. Its all on your phone.

At some point they might try and touch you. As soon as they do this it is a technical arrest. Turn off your phone and let them try and 'open' it. You did set a password, right? This again is a wrongfull arrest and you have it on tape.

At some point, to get some money from them you will need to employ a solicitor. Dont use theirs. They will ask you if you want one. When it is all over and they had kept you there for a few hours or days, you take your evidence to youe solicitor and get them for a few thousand. This is all legal.


Nelly.

[krakhead]

Thank you all for your interest and advice :) But this thread is over two years old! I'd forgotten about the whole thing! :D

Still, I know I am better informed thanks to Tom's post in particular, and hopefully others will be too :)

[brianthebrain]

Thank you all for your interest and advice :) But this thread is over two years old! I'd forgotten about the whole thing! :D

Still, I know I am better informed thanks to Tom's post in particular, and hopefully others will be too :)

well no your not as its tripe

they have no right to insist you walk through the arch, and no RS to search you if you refuse, but probably will any way

[bones]

well no your not as its tripe

they have no right to insist you walk through the arch, and no RS to search you if you refuse, but probably will any way

they can insist all they like brian ide still say bollocks ... are we not supposed to be living in a free country with the right to roam unhindered?

unless they have proof im a threat why should we pass through em?

[tom bombadil]

well no your not as its tripe

they have no right to insist you walk through the arch, and no RS to search you if you refuse, but probably will any way

Hi, which part is tripe? :confused:

They do have a right to insist that you go through the arch.

'I want you to go there' he points. Er 'no' you explain, 'Only if you show me where I am legaly obliged to do so'! Your rights and their rights were not breached there.

They will then tell you that they need to do a bag search on the table instead. You say ' I will allow this only when you explain to me how I am obliged to do so'. You dont ask for an act. You are asking for the readin to you of the act in this context. There is a difference.

You dont move from the concourse, and you hope to create a queue behind you to force their hand. They cant touch you untill they have a right to do so. Yes they can touch you, but you just fall to the ground or stand your ground, ask them why they are arresting you (they touched you and essentialy tried to guide you) If they had not arrested you then the only other thing is ABH. This will stand in court.

Dont forget to scream 'dont touch me, strainger alert' or 'NO!' :) Its the same thing. Untill a right is given, they have no rights to touch you.

They cant go through your bag at the table without a warrent issued looking for a particular item. Anything they find other than this item , in your eyes, does not exsist. Dont talk about it or sign anything for it (this relates to things you dont wish to assotiate yourself with). It is not known how this thing got there. Got that?

They might hold you and then get a warrent!!! It is up to you how you then claim compensation for your wasted time if they dont find whats on the warrent. For how a warrent should look, there are better places for that. Do a google.

If after all these conciderations they do (under a particular act that is in force,) search you, you still dont have to go under the scanner. If they force you then just say I dont wish to be searced in such a way' and as they push you through, you kick it out fron the top and break the thing if you can. It is not like you didnt tell them. By forcing you through they violated your rights to a fair trial for not wishing to pass through. Its their fault.

This is all bumkum if you dont follow through with action and complaints.


Nelly on the concourse.

[tom bombadil]

Also, concerning sniffer dogs.

If they have a sniffer dog, it will be trained in one field only. Drugs, firearms, bombs etc. It wont, cant multitask. It will have been put there by the handler and be signed in with them. It, in other words, is a working officer. It is all recorded.

They cant bring in an act, put it in to force, and say they are looking for bombs or guns and have a sniffer dog for drugs. Well they can but it is not the usual thing to merge two or more opperations without a jolly good cause.

Also, this is how I handle any dog that sniffs at me; It is a tool of the handler. If the handler misuses their tools then they are to blame. If they send a dog on a loose lead in all directions, then they are not doing their job properly. If a dog comes near me, I give it a sharp 'NO' and if it still comes, I bang it on the nose. Or I might kick it. Never have kicked a dog, but this inocent thing is a tool foirst and formost of the guy in charge. They need to ask you first.

I cant be held responsable if some guy throws his dog at me. Can I?


Sharp 'NO' A tap on the nose or lastly a kick. YOU HAVE MORE RIGHTS THAN A TOOL.


Nelly on the band wagong.

[krakhead]

One thing Tom, you say that if a police officer touches you/tries to guide you that you should go for ABH - isn't this covered through 'battery' rather than ABH?

Actually, two things! :D Does the fact that it occurred on a train station platform change the situation at all? I can't remember exactly who was who, but there was a mix of transport and 'ordinary' police officers carrying it out.

[tom bombadil]

One thing Tom, you say that if a police officer touches you/tries to guide you that you should go for ABH - isn't this covered through 'battery' rather than ABH?

Actually, two things! :D Does the fact that it occurred on a train station platform change the situation at all? I can't remember exactly who was who, but there was a mix of transport and 'ordinary' police officers carrying it out.

I remember cases of ABH being used by people just touched by another. It wasnt grevious but just actual. It means that man no.1 touched man no.2 intentionaly. Not just by mistake but on purpose. Harm might not have been meant but the touching was unwarrented by man no.2.

I dont know of battering.

Your other point is used today on the streets too. How many times have you seen a copper and a community pleb walking along side each other? It swells the numbers of the coppers.

On the station forecourt or ticket hall (I assume it happened there?) you would normaly have to listen to or at least when an assistant gets your attention. Normaly they are there all day to guide you when required. Nothing wrong in that. You also ask them for directions etc.

What the rozzers do is have the workforce of the stations to be around if things lead a certain way.

When you purchased a ticket to travel on the train you did not expect to be stopped by a cop, and this wass not explained as part of the purchase that you are giving up your rights when you did get the ticket. You did agree to be treated like a sheep to get you safely to your stop. This is why you are still refered to as a passenger, not customer. Different rights. Agreed if they get you there safely.

What we have now are cops asking to use the station as a platform for their actions. You notice that they rarely do this on the queens highway! To do it on the station grounds, under permision is easier for them.
THIS is why there is a big hoo-ha when you deny them something that the cop feels is ok to do. They asked for permission to carry out an exersize, but run the risk of you and I knowing that they have little powers there if you know how to ask where this action applys to you.

Put it this way. If a train driver asked you for your address, would you supply? If you were being forced into the barrier that has the scanner behind it would you just go to another barrier? This is why the cop is on the other side of the barriers. Still on the permision of the station, but not on the side of the trains. Station and trains are run by different companies.


Simples :D



Nelly.