Experiment on homophobia - Video

[alice34]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[challand]

lol Wow... just... wow. BTW, if anyone is looking for a new TV show along the lines of 'The moment of truth'. I have a absolutely fantastic idea. lmfao

[baron von lotsov]

Homophobia is a nonsensical term invented by the Tavistock.

[alice34]

Homophobia is a nonsensical term invented by the Tavistock.

good point...got any suggestions for a term which denotes aggression directed at individuals brought on by an inability to confront unresolved aspects of their own sexual drive?


mmm...:confused:

[challand]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

How about... Sexuality Challenged.

[chris]

good point...got any suggestions for a term which denotes aggression directed at individuals brought on by an inability to confront unresolved aspects of their own sexual drive?


mmm...:confused:

Chavs?

[baron von lotsov]

good point...got any suggestions for a term which denotes aggression directed at individuals brought on by an inability to confront unresolved aspects of their own sexual drive?


mmm...:confused:


No. I'm not into the label business much. I'll only use a label when people are involved in a cult like activity that makes them all identical, e.g. the greens.


Baron, I'm already a freemason...

Anyway since you have joined the freemasons you have to do their bidding now.

[alice34]

No. I'm not into the label business much. I'll only use a label when people are involved in a cult like activity that makes them all identical, e.g. the greens.



Anyway since you have joined the freemasons you have to do their bidding now.

...'tongue in cheek' humour...dontcha know ;)

[baron von lotsov]

...'tongue in cheek' humour...dontcha know ;)

Have a nice cup of Bisphenol A and tell me all about how homosexuality is a totally natural thing.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25837

[damagedbrainn]

Homophobia is a nonsensical term invented by the Tavistock.

I guess "Tavistock" is destined to become yet another meaningless buzzword.

[Anders Lindman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-7AoxFEJA

I guess it's true to a certain extent that we fight what we are. But that's a too simplistic answer. If I'm against something, then on a very deep subconscious level, that other something is a part of me, but on a higher conscious level it is not a part of my self. At the moment I'm against death penalty for example. Does this mean that some deep, hidden subconscious part of me actually likes death penalty? Maybe, but still, on a rational level, on my ordinary conscious level I am against it, and it would false to say that I am pro death penalty.

[matthew84]

Hi folks, sorry to be one of the great ignorant again, but I wonder if someone could clarify for me why it is the Tavistock Institute is suspect and the Tavistock and NHS Portman Trust is fine? (Is the clinic fine, or is it suspect too?)

The Clinic (where I spent two years training in psychodynamic practice) is a neo-Freudian institution which trains psychiatrists, therapists and other mental health workers in a variety of courses - and the other is??

I feel I might have something to contribute here - but I need to understand why/and in what way the ideology of the Tavistock Institute differs from the Kleinian (primarily) psychoanalytical approach of the Clinic?

I know the Tavistock Clinic was born from the psychoanalytical exploration of the impact of the first world war on the military survivors and that the group theories of Wilfred Bion spread and developed from these investigations.

I have some understanding of the history of the development of psychoanalysis and the British School's schisms in the mid 20th century etc and I know a bit about group dynamics, some of the ideas I can see have a bearing on many of the threads/topics being discussed in the forums but I guess I see the word 'Tavistock' bandied about quite a lot and I'm wondering what it is that has been specifically disseminated by The Institute that is considered so corrosive? If the clinic is also considered dodgy (which may well be the case, I don't know) I could enter into debate in some detail about this topic.

I'm neither a defender not a detractor of either institute, but would appreciate some clarity on the matter.

[matthew84]

Hi Anders, re your question, I guess it is a complex one. In Freud's topographical idea of the mind, it is in part, id, ego and superego. All three contain both conscious and unconscious aspects.

The Id contains the primal, more animalistic drives, the ego is the socialised sense we have of our self and how we view ourselves whilst the super-ego is the part of the mind that watches over the ego, which generally struggles to harmonise the impulses between the two. (That is, between the Id and the Superego)

The super-ego is the introjected aspect of the parent/authority figure etc. So your dad might have wanted you to be a Phd but your id wants to have as much sex as possible as soon as possible. The ego has to find a way of balancing these impulses without fracturing. I give these examples as random selections of what our id/superego might be wanting. Perhaps, for some of us, our id wants to have sex with those who are the same gender. But then maybe the super-ego would have been trained to view that as a real no-no causing lots of trouble for the ego to referee. (In turn of the century Vienna, it probably would have indeed have been a big no-no and some of Freud's early case studies deal with this issue in particular.)

And again that presumes we are conscious of what it is our id really wants, but the repression could have been so successful that even the id might be unaware of its own impulses. Some folks may have repressed their heterosexuality for a whole host of complicated reasons. Some radical gays may be out of touch with their repressed heterosexual, and, for Freud, this too would be a problem. It raises issues about how we have negotiated (or not) the oedipal conflict.

Perhaps we have repressed that homosexual feeling altogether and we are consequently unaware of even the slightest desire. (Freud believed most people have at least the capacity for bisexuality on some level but I digress.)

Hence the repressed homosexuality is 'unconscious'. It will still be there, however, and, according to Freudian theory, what we resist, will persist. The more strongly we are resisting it, the more angry we'll be at those who 'overtly display their homosexuality.' All sorts of complex defensive mechanisims might be marshalled to quash the parts of ourselves we don't want to know about. (See Anna Freud who labelled quite a few of them; displacement, sublimation, reaction-formation etc etc.) Our ego is busy with this a great deal of the time. But there are also unconscious aspects to the id and to the super-ego.

Freud's famous idea states that 'where id was, there shall ego be.' In order for a person to become whole or fully functioning or whatever, Freud said we needed to be able to find meaningful work and love. If our id were running the show, instant gratification would be the name of the day and we'd act on any impulse, irrespective of the consequences to the wider group. If the super-ego were in charge, however our super-ego was composed/ whatever it contained, would then exert an over-significant influence on our life. Freud was hyper-aware that the return of the repressed as he called it was always a potentially explosive cultural/personal phenomenon.

I'm not definitely sold on these ideas; psychoanalysis itself is predicated on a belief - a belief in the unconscious. In that sense, it struggles to be science. But in another way, it would acknowledge the synchronicities that are so often referred to on this site. Also, the unconscious is a vast store-house of information which we can learn to access by decoding some of the filtering processes and understanding some of our own habitual defense mechanisms. We need the help of others to do this because we are blind to our own unconscious.

Paying money for it is bad though IMHO!!! I think it ought to be more of a vocation than a profession for the privileged. But knowing about it can be helpful and, I have to say, I find some of the ideas interesting.

I guess a classical Feudian might say that those of us who are inclined to be 'truthseekers' (or conspiracy theorists as they'd term us) are probably likely to have issues with our super-ego in some way. They'd probably big-up paranoia too and maybe our own innate aggressive impulses.

But groups have their own defence mechanisms and this is an area that I think is particualrly interesting in light of some of the discussions on these forums. If we are indeed 'truth seekers' then we could see ourselves as a community that utilises certain defenses against things we find difficult - and then we might be able to make a bit more progress.

Just a suggestion. I have some ideas.

[matthew84]

The Death Penalty is a political idea. It is not a biological drive/instinct and therefore not subject to psychic pressures that may be repressed/displaced/transferred/projected.

The question of life after death is considered a delusion by Freud. I profoundly disagree on this point.

[majicdragon]

So homophobics really are the gayest of the gay guys.

I knew a guy who had a problem admitting that his sister was not a virgin. He yelled and screamed, "my sister is a virgin"... I WONDERED THAT HE HAD HAD HER.

I woke up with this girl sucking on my private part. When she realized that I was becoming conscious, she left.

I always wondered whether she had also drug-fucked or drug-sucked her brother.... He drunkenly freaked out that she was a virgin. A regular berserker he was about it.

More than one time I heard him defending that his sister was a virgin...

She fucked a friend of mine... according to him anyhow.





You know, people are like this on this board too. Well, in a way. They complain about things that are wrong in themselves.

like:

"You fucking guys are always complaining... I'm so sick of it!"

Do you see where it is in your life? Do you do it as well? Anyone care to admit?

[Anders Lindman]

The Death Penalty is a political idea. It is not a biological drive/instinct and therefore not subject to psychic pressures that may be repressed/displaced/transferred/projected.

The question of life after death is considered a delusion by Freud. I profoundly disagree on this point.

Death penalty is not only a political idea, just as abortion for example is not just a political idea.

[alice34]

Have a nice cup of Bisphenol A and tell me all about how homosexuality is a totally natural thing.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25837

Interesting Baron, always had my suspicions there might be something like exactly what Bisphenol A would be doing to our water supply.

I think the rise in homosexuality is probably due to a number of factors ( not to reduce the validity of your point ).

...I mean its not like the Greeks had Bisphenol as an excuse, or the Pathans saying "A woman for duty, a boy for pleasure, and a goat for fun..."

My argument is that there is little if anything that is un-natural - because anything un-natural would not exist by way of its definition - a bit like how you've pointed out the questionable nonsensical side to the word "homophobia".

I would accept there is a natural harmony that the universe ( or God if you'd prefer ) relies on that holds the fundamental structure of things together - and the closer to our reality mimicing that fundamental structure from the source, the closer we are to harmony.

For instance, a male seal making sexual advances on a penguin would seem a far sight harder to comprehend than a male seal on a male seal, or for that matter human beings spending all their energy to exact disharmony between each other by dropping bombs and torturing each other is far harder to comprehend than two women or two men having an erotic wrestle to work off a little aggression.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44620000/jpg/_44620484_seal_debruyn_466.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7379554.stm

As a red blooded namby pamby, I'm not going to discourage two men from doing what they want in the privacy of their own homes if thats their cup of tea....that's an end to two extra factors of competition as far as I'm concerned....( but if the fuckers are going to kick down doors and wreck innocent peoples lives who've got no interest in their business, then I think I'm motivated to make some assessment of the situation....)

selfish, I know :D:D:D

[Anders Lindman]

the unconscious is a vast store-house of information which we can learn to access by decoding some of the filtering processes and understanding some of our own habitual defense mechanisms. We need the help of others to do this because we are blind to our own unconscious.


Yes, the unconscious/subconscious is as Bruce Lipton says like a tape recorder just playing tapes that we have downloaded. Not only information downloaded from being an infant to adulthood, but also information being programmed as a fetus, and information going back even further through genetics and epigenetics. In fact, information from the entire history record of the universe is in us. A massive amount of information, much of which is difficult to see directly within oneself.

[romas]

baron von lotsov comes out as little cultophobic though :D

[alice34]

baron von lotsov comes out as little cultophobic though :D

mmm...good point:.

Baron, if I carried a sword, compass square and posed on a chequer board floor wearing nothing more than an apron while clenching a rose seductively between my teeth....

Would I give you a woody?

[Anders Lindman]

Rod Parsley: McCain's Anti-Gay "Spiritual Guide" - YouTube

:D

Homosexual marriages should be legal but the churches should also be allowed to say no to homosexual marriages if they think it's against their tradition.

[chris]

To be fair, the test's conclusion is faulty.

The homophobes know what is going on..They are being shown gay porn with a dick sensor around their penis. The psychology that will be in their heads will be "Don't get a boner, don't get a boner, don't get a boner," it may not nessesarily be the porn triggering the increase in blood to the penis but may have been the psychology of the setup. It is like being told "Don't imagine the colour blue or else your favourite colour is blue."

Those who aren't homophobes will be relatively more relaxed in the surrounding.

Imagine if they did the same thing to normal people to find pedaphiles, this would be an outragious test but because people like to ridicule homophobes, they take the conclusions in the direction they want.

Having a boner doesn't say anything about sexuality, having blood flow through your penis is a natural thing and happens without any kind of stimulation whatsoever. Have you ever walked along and find yourself asking "Why the Fuck am I getting a woody?" It doesn't mean your sexualy aroused by walking down the street and your a streetophile...

[Anders Lindman]

To be fair, the test's conclusion is faulty.

The homophobes know what is going on..They are being shown gay porn with a dick sensor around their penis. The psychology that will be in their heads will be "Don't get a boner, don't get a boner, don't get a boner," it may not nessesarily be the porn triggering the increase in blood to the penis but may have been the psychology of the setup. It is like being told "Don't imagine the colour blue or else your favourite colour is blue."

Those who aren't homophobes will be relatively more relaxed in the surrounding.

Imagine if they did the same thing to normal people to find pedaphiles, this would be an outragious test but because people like to ridicule homophobes, they take the conclusions in the direction they want.

Having a boner doesn't say anything about sexuality, having blood flow through your penis is a natural thing and happens without any kind of stimulation whatsoever. Have you ever walked along and find yourself asking "Why the Fuck am I getting a woody?" It doesn't mean your sexualy aroused by walking down the street and your a streetophile...

Good point. I don't trust such tests either. From crude experiments like that, they can come up with all sorts of outrageous claims. It's like in the dark ages when they tested 'witches' by throwing them into water. If they sunk and drowned, they were innocent, and if they floated they were burned at the stake. :eek:

The sexual drive is very deep and related to death. There's more to it than meets the eye and crude measuring devices.

[alice34]

Good point. I don't trust such tests either. From crude experiments like that, they can come up with all sorts of outrageous claims. It's like in the dark ages when they tested 'witches' by throwing them into water. If they sunk and drowned, they were innocent, and if they floated they were burned at the stake. :eek:

The sexual drive is very deep and related to death. There's more to it than meets the eye and crude measuring devices.

A few thoughts:

1.Impotent homophobes would slip thru the net with this test.

2.It maybe more effective to have a dick monitor on them while conducting a test involving a real homosexual that they can beat the living shit out of.

(Ethically speaking this may run into problems I suppose)

[chris]

2.It maybe more effective to have a dick monitor on them while conducting a test involving a real homosexual that they can beat the living shit out of.


It would still be faulty because the homo could decide to be aroused and get involved with it in his imagination or not.

An artist might have a beautiful naked model to paint and not feel a degree of sexuality towards her yet he might also look at a page3 girl in a completely different light.

[danster82]

I think it would have to be said that homophobe or not theres going to be some reaction. Even just by association when you watch porn you see parts of a man so maybe the body would just start reacting simialr to when it thinks its watching porn.

If this Documentry is trying to suggest that everyone is somehow partialy gay it is wrong. Infact alot of people have started to notice how mainstream media seems to pushing being gay for some unknown reason.

[Anders Lindman]

1.Impotent homophobes would slip thru the net with this test.


That's why it is of crucial importance to give all test subjects Viagra before commencing the test. Just kidding. :D

[Anders Lindman]

Plus, Osho spoke of most people being autosexual. This means only having sex with one's own body. We can see this in ordinary porn with autosexual men and indifferent women having sex with each other. :p:D