Hebrews And Vedic Brahmins

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http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0307/ET14-8222.html

Hebrews And Vedic Brahmins

BY DR. SAMAR ABBAS, ALIGARH, INDIA

EDITORIAL, Jul 14 (VNN) — A Review

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In 1979 the Oriental Institute at Baroda published a paper entitled "The Hebrews belong to a branch of Vedic Aryans." This was a follow-up to a previous article on the same topic published by the same author, Prof. Madan Mohan Shukla, in the Vishveshvaranand Indological Journal in 1976. The basic thesis of these papers is that the Hebrews represent an offshoot of Vedic Brahmins. It may be instructive to review Shukla's papers as they serve to illustrate the common origin of the Jews and Brahmins. As Shukla's papers are very difficult to obtain both within and outside India, and are virtually out of reach for laypersons, I am reproducing extensive tracts from them for reference purposes.

1. VOCABULARY

One of Shukla's strong points is the considerable vocabulary shared by Hebrew and Sanskrit. Indeed, M.M.Shukla has concentrated on providing a large list of of words which are common to Hebrew and Sanskrit. Thus, he provides the following examples:

"The word, 'Sva?' means 'heaven' or 'paradise' in Sanskrit. This word, written as 'svam' may assume the form, 'Sam-yim' which means, 'sky' and/or 'heaven' in Hebrew, while it may become 'Asvah' under the influence of the principle of vowelization. Sometimes, the sound 'a' may change to 'ya' and thus, the derivation, 'Asvah' or 'Asuah' may change to 'Yasuah' which is nearer to a Hebrew word, 'Yasuah' (= salvation).... It may be mentioned that 'Appa' is a Marathi word. The derivation 'Appa' may further change to 'Abba' (p=b), which is a Hebrew word... Now let us consider the root-word 'Svas'. It may change first to 'Vas' and thence to Bas or 'Bes' which is a Hebrew word though with different meaning, ie. 'daughter'." (Shukla 1979, p.45)

He also suggests that Surios gave rise to Kurios, or Kur (ibid., p.48) Shukla notes that 'Abru' and 'Uparohita' exist in Persian and Avadhi Hindi, distinct from Skt. bhru and purohita (Shukla 1979, p.44)

Describing the process of vowelization, he notes, "the Punjabis would pronounce the words station, putra and K???a as satation, puttar, and Kishan respectively." (Shukla 1976, p.41)

Building upon this, he writes, "the word Joasava may be transformed into Joasaph, from which the derivation of the word Joseph is a simple matter. Thus we can see that the Biblical name Joseph can be derived from an ancient Indian name, jayasva." (Shukla 1976, p.42)

Continuing in this line, he notes, "Adam. This word seems to have been derived from the Sanskrit word A-dityam, from the Vedic pronunciation of this word as A-ditiam." (Shukla 1976, p.45)

In addition, "The meaning of the root-word as in Sanskrit is 'to eat', and 'to enjoy' or 'to be merry'. Hence if we pronounce the term upasana as 'upasana', then it would mean, 'Eating before God', and 'Being merry before God.'" (Shukla 1976, p.46)

Another striking similarity exists with regard to script: "Now, the Hebrew script, like those of Arabic and Kaithi, does not use the word signs to indicate the pronunciation of its consonants." (Shukla 1976, p.44).

2. PRIESTHOOD

One of the strongest points for a common Brahmin-Jewish origin is the fact that both communities have been endogamous priests from the earliest times of their recorded history: "Chosen People of God: It may also be observed in this respect that the Hebrews, as well as their Indian counterparts, Brahmins, consider themselves as the "Chosen People of God". The Hebrews started their corporate career in history as a "Kingdom of Priests" (Exodus/19/6). Likewise, the Brahmins have also been a "Community of Priests" since the dawn of their history." (Shukla 1979, p.54)

The colonialists were the first to notice the similarity between Brahmins and Jews, namely that Brahma not only corresponds with Abraham, but that his consort Sarasvati corresponds to Sarah. Shukla also notes the story in Genesis 29, 32-33, 20/12.

3. BIBLICAL FIGURES

Citing his own work 'The Holy Bible - A Source book of Ancient indian History', a paper submitted to All Indian Oriental Conference (1976) held at Dharwar, he notes that "We have already tried to equate Brahma, Sarasvati, Manu and Bali with the Biblical Abraham, Sarai, Noah and Peleg." (Shukla 1979, p.53) Not only that, but Shukla holds that the Jewish Laban and Brahmanic Lavana coincide:

"It is noteworthy to note in the above context that the sister of Lavana on the Indian side becomes the daughter of Laban in the Biblical account. It may also be mentioned in this respect that while Sarasvati is said to be the daughter of Brahma in accordance with the Indian tradition, her Biblical counterpart, Sarai, has been described as the sister of Abraham. In this context, we would like to remind our readers of a previous discussion of 'Svas', the root-word of the Sanskrit 'svasar' (sister) which becomes 'Bes' to mean 'daughter' in the Hebrew language." (Shukla 1979, p.54)

Equally striking is Shukla's derivation of 'Mary' from 'Matri': "the words 'Mary' and 'Mariam' could be derived from a Sanskrit word, mat?, meaning 'mother'." (Shukla 1976, p.42)

"Similarly the word, 'Mari' or 'Mary' may also be derived from Sanskrit 'Matri'." [ and Shukla notes that Mary is worshipped as a mother goddess. ]... "The word Adam is derived from a Hebrew word, 'Adamah' which means 'the earth'. Similarly the Skt. 'Adityam' is derived from 'Aditi' which also means the Earth. Hence the primary meaning of both the words, 'Adam' and Adityam would be 'earthly one'. (Shukla 1979, p.47)

His papers provide detailed etymologies of the word 'Abraham':

"The word 'Adam' can also be derived from Sanskrit 'Adityam' with the help of the rule of haplology also. Haplology is the name given by Bloomfield to the phenomenon where of the two similar syllables following each other, one is dropped. The word 'Adityam' will change to 'Adam' under the influence of this rule in the following way: -

Adityam -> Adatam -> Adadam (t = d) = Adam (Haplology)

It would be interesting to note here that the Sanskrit 'Adityam', represented by the same rule would change to 'Aton':

Adityan -> Aditan -> Atadan (d=t) -> Atan ->: Aten /Aton (Shukla 1979, p.48) This is interesting, for it provides an Indo-European derivation for the Egyptian God Aton.

Moreover, "the Vayu Purana mentions Manu as Bharata" (Shukla 1979, p.56)

Intriguing is Shukla's derivation of Rcam: "We may consider another Sanskrit word, 'Rcam' which may become Arcam and then 'Aleichem' (r=l) which is a Hebrew word." (Shukla 1979, p.46)

Shukla also provides certain other etymologies, and repeatedly derives Adam from Adityam, and Mary from Matr (Shukla 1979, p.46) He also postulates a derivation of Gr. Adonis from Aton, and notes that Heb Adonay = Lord. (ibid., p.48).

"It can be shown that the Hebrew word, 'Elohim' can be derived from the Skt. 'Brahma':

Brahma -> Ibrahim (rule of vowelization) -> Ibrahim (rule of stress) -> Ilohim (r=l) -> Elohim

Hence the expression 'Adonay Elohim; becomes equivalent to the Skt. 'Aditya-Brahma'." (Shukla 1979, p.48)

Furthermore, he notes, "Savit? = Savitru (? -> ru) -> Sabiru (v=b) = Habitru (s=h)" -> Habiru = Habiru = PR Egyptian, Apiru, Ibru, Ibri, Ibrin." (Shukla 1979, p.51)

Another etymology is: (Shukla 1979, p.53)

Iksaku -> Issvahu (no k) -> Issahu (va -> a) -> Ishak, Isaac.

Further, Shukla writes, "It may also be mentioned here that Satarupa, the name of the daughter-wife of Manu, is also one of the names of the daughter-consort of Brahma" (Shukla 1979, p.53) From this we may note the case of Noah's daughters and Manu, the flood survivor.

Another interesting derivation is also supplied: "K???a -> Christ. We know that the Bengali pronounciation of the word Kr.s.n.a is Kriste. 'Christo' or 'Christ' is only a matter of spelling." (Shukla 1976, p.42)

Moreover, "Yehasua has been derived from a Sanskrit word, Yasasva." (Shukla 1976, p.42)

It would also appear that Jehova is also related to a Sanskrit word: "This word [Jehova] could, however, be equated with the Vedic word jahvuh, which may be considered, grammatically, both as an adjective and a proper noun. In the former sense, the word, jahv.uh has been used at least four times in the R.gveda. Thus, it has been used as an {p.44} attribute of Lord Agni (RV.3.1.12), as an attribute of Lord Indra (RV 8.13.24), as an attribute of Lord Soma (RV 9.75.1) and as an attribute of Lord Agni (RV 10.110.3)."

4. BHARATA, IBHRI, IBERIA HEBREWS

One of Shukla's most striking points is his discovery of an etymological connection between the words 'Hebrew' and 'Bharat':

"Hebrews and Rigveda: Let us first understand the real nature of the Rig Veda. As observed by Sri D.P.Mishra, "Both Devdasa and Sudasa belonged to the tribe of the Bharatas or T?tsu-Bharatas and won a number of victories over their Dasa and Aryan enemies. It is their wars and victories which have been repeatedly sung by their priests in the Rig Veda, and we have therefore no hesitation in naming it as (p.56) 'Bharata-Veda' or the Veda of the Bharatas and the Bharatas themselves as the Rigvedic Aryans. If the Rigveda supposed to deal with the entry of the Aryans into India, we would like to argue that it deals only with the entry of Bharatas ..." 34 [34. Studies in the Proto-History of India", D.P.Mishra, p.133]" (Shukla 1979, p.55)

Further, "Bharata was the first king according to Jaina traditions" (Shukla 1979, p.56)

"Now let us consider the word "Bharata'. This word is formed from the Sanskrit 'Bhara', which under the sway of the rule of vowelization (Prothesis), may assume the form 'Ibhar', 'Iber', 'Ibhray', 'Ibhri', 'Ibri', 'Ibrini' etc. which have been equated with the term Hebrew." (Shukla 1979, p.56) He then continues:

"[T]he Hebrews may be related to the Rigvedic Aryan tribes of Bharatas ... In this way, we can confidently say that the statement 'Rigveda is essentially the Bharata-Veda', means that it is the 'Veda of the Hebrews'. It is hence no wonder to find close similarity between the Rigveda and the Holy Bible." (Shukla 1979, p.56)

Intriguing is his statement that,"The famous V??akapi and some other allied saktas can be best understood and appreciated only in the form of the Book of Esther." (Shukla 1979, p,56) "Further discussion of the term 'Hebrew': We have mentioned earler that another meaning of the term Savitr (the Sanskrit form of the term Hebrew) is Brahma?a. Now let us consider the word 'Brahma?a'. f we remove the suffix 'mana' from this word, then it becomes 'Brah', which, if pronounced repeatedly, gives the word, 'Habra' which is nearer to the word 'Hebrew'. Also that, both the words, written without vowel signs, would give 'BRH' and 'HBR' respectively. The similarity is evident.

It would be interesting to note another Sanrkrit word, 'vipra' (a synonym of 'Brahma?a') in the same connection. The word 'vipra' beomes 'Ipar' in colloquial Marathi. Now consider the word 'Ipar'. This word may assume the forms 'Iber' (p=b), Ibri, Ibhray, Ibrani etc. and, on being subjected to the reverse operations of the rules of prothesis and Anaptyxis in succession, would reduce 'Pr' to 'Prm', which we have already shown to be the [ other form ] of Hebrew'. This leads us to the conclusion that the Hebrews can be identified unhesitatingly with these Indian Brahmins who had migrated from India in the very early dawn of the Vedic period." (Shukla 1979, p.54)

The rule of prothesis Shukla describes as the process of vowels developing before consonants, eg. Skt. rudhira, rajah, laghu, nr, nakha, naman which he claims led to Greek eruhtros, erobos, elakus, aner, onuch, onoma (ibid, p.44). The rule of anaptyxis is the insertion of vowel betwen combination of words (ibid, p.44).

Also, in both Avestan and Avadhi Hindi, the words Manthara and Manthra are used, and not the Sanskrit mantra (Shukla 1979, p.47).

Finally, he notes, "We have derived the word 'Hebrew' from the Sanskrit word, 'Savit?' (Shukla 1979, p.52)

More controversial would be Shukla's following statement:

"On the basis of the above since some similiarty of Jews and Arabs Sabeans

5. CUSTOMS

Describing the strength of his evidence, Shukla notes, "Sometimes, these evidences become so strong as may lead one to suspect that the Hebrews might have really been an offshoot of Vedic Aryans." (Shukla 1976, p.41)

Some of his strong evidence relates to common customs:

"It may also be mentioned here that like a devout Jew, a devout Hindu is also required to pray three times a day, morning, afternoon and evening (traikalika-sandhya)

To cite still another similarity in religious practices between the Hindus and the Jews, Hayyim Schauss notes in his Jewish Festivals, p.64: "When all is ready, the Samaritans form groups about the {p.47} sacrificial animals, and after uttering the prescribed blessings, fall upon the roast meat, pulling it hastily to pieces with their hands. Portions are brought to the women and children in the tents. Everybody eats rapidly and in twenty minutes all that is left is a mound of bones."

Here it is worthwhile to note: (a) Though turned largely vegetarians now, the Brahmins of India present almost similar scenes of eating hastily in their religious and ritual grand-feasts.

(b) Like Hebrews, the Hindu womenfolk also sit in seclusion to eat their share in their public feasts.

(c) Any person, who eats too rapidly (hurridly, impatiently), or too much, is called a 'haboru' in the Hindi language, particularly in the Avadhi dialect..... The resemblance bewteen the words Hebrew and Haboru is particulary striking" (Shukla 1976, p.46-47) "there is a strong case to suspect or speculate that either the Hebrews really belong to a branch of Vedic Aryans, or that they had been in direct touch with the latter at some remote and unrecorded period of their history." (Shukla 1876, p.47)

6. ANTHROPOLOGY

Citing evidence from anthropology for his thesis, Shukla notes:

"The above discussion also leads us to the conclusion that the term 'Bharatavarsa' (= India) actually means 'the land of the Hebrews', a conclusion which is fully supported by the observation of Prof. S.K.Chatterji that, "the third Mediterranean strain, the so-called 'Oriental' one, commoly miscalled the Semitic or Jewish, with a pronouncedly long nose and fair in skin, is found in the Punjab, in Sind, in Rajputana and in Western UP, and .... in other parts of India" [R.C.Majumdar, ed. Vedic Age, 1965, p.145-6]" (Shukla 1979, p.57)

To this we may add the brachycephaly common to both Jews and Brahmins.

7. SABEANS

Shukla agrees with the generally accepted concept of a common bond between Jews and Sabaeans or Yemenites:

"Now, let us consider the word, 'Sabean'. We have already mentioned that 'Savi' is the root-word of the term 'Savit?' and hence the term 'Sabean' can be shown to be the equivalent of the word, 'Savit?', ie. Hebrew. What we mean is that the Sabeans and the Hebrews were 2 twigs of the same branch." (Shukla 1979, p.55)

8. COW-WORSHIP

It may be instructive to cite additional facts in favour of the common origin of Jews and Brahmins which have arisen after Shukla's work. One striking common feature linking Brahmins with Jews is that of cow-worship. When Moses descended from Mt. Sinai, he found the Jews worshipping the golden calf. Likewise, "Ex. xxxii. attributes the making of a golden calf to Aaron at Mount Sinai," and "Jeroboam, in making the sanctuaries of Beth-el and Dan the recipients of his royal patronage, placed in them images of Yhwh made of gold in this calf form, the fame of which went far and wide (compare I Kings xii. 23; II Kings x. 29; II Chron. xi. 14, 15)." (Jastrow Barton 1906) Cow-worship was common amongst Hebrews:

"Among the Hebrews, as among the other agricultural Semites, the bull was associated with deity in a sacred character (see Ox). The form in which this thought found expression in Israel was in their representation of Yhwh by an image of an ox or bull made of gold (compare I Kings xii. 28)." ( Jastrow Barton 1906).

There was also a "representation of Yhwh by an image of an ox or bull made of gold (compare I Kings xii. 28)." Finally, "the twelve oxen on which rested the great laver in the Temple of Solomon (I Kings vii. 25; II Kings xvi. 17; Jer. lii. 20) are regarded as evidence that there was some sacred character attached to the bull," [ibid.].

The sacredness of the cow is likewise a fundamental part of Brahmanism:

"Dying, without the expectation of a reward, for the sake of Brahmanasand of cows, or in the defence of women and children, secures beatitude tothose excluded (from the Aryan community, vahya.)" [Manu, Ch.X.62]

"I call on you the Sons of Dyaus, the Asvins, that a dark cow to my redkine be added." [Rig-Veda, Book X, Hymn 61].

"He shall not touch with his foot a Brahmana, a cow, nor any other(venerable beings)." [Apastamba, Prasna I, Patala 11, Khanda 31]

9. MOON-WORSHIP

However, in his section on "Sun-worship", M.M.Shukla has made a mistake, for it is moon-worship which links Jews and Brahmins rather than Sun-worship. Selenolatry (moon-worship) was common to both Brahmans and Jews. Sun-worship is a natural outgrowth of a cold northern climate, where the nourishing warmth of the Sun is considered the bringer of life. It is hence a characteristic of Indo-European populations, compare the Ahura Mazda of Zoroastrianism, the Mithra of Mithraism, Sol Invictus of Rome, Asshur of the Assyrians, and the Surya of the Sauras of India.

By contrast, moon-worship is a natural phenomenon of warm and desert regions, where it symbolises the refreshing coolness of the night, the opposite of the harsh and inhuman desert day. It thus arose amongst the Sumerians, where the capital was "Ur, the central home of the Semitic moon-cult" (Waddell 1929, p.388). The Old and New Testaments bear ample testimony to selenolatry amongst Hebrews (Deut. xxxiii. 14; Jer. vii. 18, xliv. 17; Job, xxxi. 26-27;, Judges viii. 21, 26; Isa. iii. 18; Cant. vi. 10; Ps. lxxii. 5, 7, lxxxix. 37; Isa. xiii. 10 xxiv. 23; Joel ii. 10, ii. 31; Amos vii. 5; I Sam. xvii. 14).

The Jewish Encyclopedia further demonstrates selenolatry amongst Jews:

"In Job (xxxi. 26 et seq.) there is an allusion to the kissing of the hand in the adoration of the moon ... Thus, the fact that Terah, Abraham's father, had lived first at Ur of the Chaldees, and that later he settled at Haran (Gen. xi. 31), two cities known from Assyrian inscriptions as places of moon-worship, shows that Abraham's parents were addicted to that form of idolatry ... The golden calf, Hommel declares, was nothing more than an emblem of the moon-god, which, in the Assyrian inscription, is styled 'the youthful and mighty bull' and the lord of the heavenly hosts (comp. "Yhwh Zeba'ot," which term is intentionally omitted from the Pentateuch). He assigns the same character to the two calves made by Jeroboam several centuries later (I Kings xii. 28) .... The close similarity between the ancient Hebrews and the southern Arabs has led Hommel furthermore to find allusion to moon-worship in such Hebrew names as begin with "ab" (= "father"), as in "Abimelech" and "Absalom," or with "'am" (= "uncle"), as in "Amminadab" and "Jeroboam," because these particles, when they appear in the names of southern Arabs, refer to the moon." (Seligsohn 1902, p.528)

The reappearance of the moon is sanctified, like the entrance of the Sabbath or festivals, by the recitation of benedictions known in liturgy as "K.iddush ha-Lebanah" or "Birkat ha-Lebanah."

Sinai is likewise a centre for Selenolatry: "Those scholars who incline to establish a connection between moon-worship ("Sin" = "moon") and the monotheism of Israel ("Sinai") find a corroboration of their theory in the fact that Abram's original home was the seat of the worship of Sin." (Hirsch 1902, p.380)

'India' and 'Hindu' are likewise derived from Indu, the name of the moon-god, also called Soma. The Somanath temple in Gujarat is dedicated to the moon-god. In the name of Rama, Rama-Chandra, the suffix Chandra is derived from the Semitic 'Sin'. Parashu-rama, 'Rama with the Axe', one of the incarnations of Vishnu, is the foremost deity for many Brahmins; the Parashu-rama is derived from Param-Sin, a title of the Moon God Sin. Thus both Ramas are votaries of the moon.

Another common point shared by Jews and Brahmins is the concept of negative memories regarding "Asuras". Historians have long wrestled with this question, as to why the "Asuras" are treated with such fear in the Vedas. However, this fear of Asuras amongst Brahmins becomes understood when one considers that the Assyrians deported the Jews. If the Brahmins share a common descent with Jews, it is only natural that they preserve in their collective memory a negative conception of their oppressors. Another 'mystery' is solved.

10. STAR OF DAVID

Mysteriously, the Star of David is common to both Judaism and certain forms of Tantrism in India, as noted by Barbara G. Walker:

"The familiar design of two interlocked triangles is generally supposed to have represented the Jewish faith since the time of David, or Solomon; therefore this hexagram is known as Magen David (Shield of David), or the Star of David, or Solomon's Seal.... {p. 402} The downward-pointing triangle is a female symbol corresponding to the yoni; it is called 'shakti.' The upward-pointing triangle is the male, the lingam, and is called 'the fire' (vahni). ... Cabalists used the hexagram as Tantric yogis used it, to represent the union of God with his Female Power, Shekina, the Jewish form of Shakti-Kali." (Walker 1983, p.401-402) The oldest undisputed example of the six-pointed star, as recorded in the Encyclopedia Judaica, is on a seal from the seventh century B.C.E. found in Sidon north of Tyre and belonging to one Joshua ben Asayahu, the name indicating that the owner was Jewish. In the Second Temple period, the hexagram was often used alongside the pentagram (the five-pointed star), and is found in the synagogue of Capernaum (second or third century C.E.). This is before the attested appearance of the Tantric six-pointed star, indicating that it is derived from the Jewish Star of David. Perhaps it was imported via Kabbalic sects. Be that as it may be, this indicates a common origin of Jews and Brahmins.

11. Conclusion

Hence, there are several features which link Jews and Brahmins, indicating a common origin. From this M.M.Shukla and his followers would have the Jews descended from Vedic Brahmins, while the present author and other researchers would have the Brahmins descended from a "Lost Tribe of Israel". Whatever the details, Shukla's detailed researches assit in the establishment of a common origin of Jews and Brahmins. We may thus conclude with the words of the Enlightenment researcher Godfrey Higgins (1772-1833):

"Now, what am I to make of this? Were these Brahmins Jews, or the Jews Brahmins?" ("Anacalypsis", Vol.I, p.771, cited in Matlock 2000, p.70)

References

Hirsch 1902: "Ur", by Emil G. Hirsch, Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol.12, p.380; http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com.

Jastrow Barton 1906: "Calf-Worship," by Morris Jastrow Jr. George A. Barton, Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol.III, p.510-511, http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com.

Matlock 2000: "Jesus and Moses are Buried in India, Birthplace of Abraham and the Hebrews", by Gene D. Matlock, Authors Choice Press, San Jose, imprint 5220 S 16th, Ste 200, Lincoln, NE 68512, Nov. 2000, $24, http://www.iuniverse.com.

Seligsohn 1902: "Star-Worship", by M. Seligsohn et al, Jewish Encyclopedia, 1902, Vol.11, p.527-528.

Shukla 1976: "Hebrews and Vedic Aryans" by Madan Mohan Shukla, (47, Kumar Bhavan, opp. M.M.Hospital, G.T.Road, Ghaziabad), Vishveshvaranand Indological Journal, Vol.XIV, Pt.1 (March 1976), p.41-47.

Shukla 1979: "The Hebrews belong to a Branch of Vedic Aryans" by Madan Mohan Shukla, Journal of the Oriental Institute, M.S. (Maharaja Sayajirao) University of Baroda, Baroda, Vol. XXVIII (March-June 1979) Nos. 3-4, p.44-57; Director, Oriental Insitute, Tilak Road, opp. Sayajigunj Tower, Baroda-390002, Gujarat, India; Rs.30/year.

Waddell 1929: "The Makers of Civilization in Race and History", by L.A. Waddell, 1929, reprint S.Chand Company, P.O.Box No. 5733, Ram Nagar, 7361, New Delhi-110055, 1986, Rs.400, http://www.schandgroup.com.

Walker 1983: "The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets," by Barbara G. Walker, Harper Row, San Francisco, 1983.

who are the ancestors of modern day jews. who was in babylon/iraq, who wrote the talmud. who are the priest caste/class, who control religions of krishna to krist. who created the linga/phallic/obelisk cult, who creatd the trimurti/trinity, who did flavius the historian of those times say created jerusalem. to me the traces of afghan families with hebrew names, indian familes with hebrew names, show that they were in india also.

http://www.studylight.org/his/bc/wfj/apion/view.cgi?book=1&chapter=1

flavius josephus contra apinon chapter 1 verse 22.

these Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem

[synergy777]

africa/india via the centres of egypt/babylon(iraq) gave the info to greece/italy, then these gave it to central/north europeans, the goths, franks, jutes, saxons, frisians etc. so how on earth do the east europeans get to be known as the real jews, is beyond me. converting to a religion does not give you right to the land which the religion originated in. do western white hari krishna's ask for land in india no, so why the do the jews get it.after we had the knowledge, how can then we not be the ones to keep it and our lands, why do the recent converts proclaim ownership? power from the crusades, charlemagne, industrial revolution, slavery, thats why.

after all a people who do not know its own history and yet follow elite doctrines are hardly in a postion to know/judge are they.

[synergy777]

http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/bldefsyantra.htm

origin of the star of david/israel

[synergy777]

http://www.indiastar.com/ancient.htm

IndiaStar Review of Books
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ANCIENT INDIA IN A NEW LIGHT
-- four books --

In Search of the Cradle of Civilization
by Georg Feuesrstein, Subhash Kak, & David Frawley
Wheaton, Illinois: Quest Books, 1995
341 pages $24.95 Tele: 1-708-665-0123

The Myth of the Aryan Invasion of India
by David Frawley
New Delhi: Voice of India, 1995
(2 / 18 Ansari Road, New Delhi, 110 002)


The Politics of History: Aryan Invasion Theory and the Subversion of Scholarship.
by Navaratna Rajaram
New Delhi: Voice of India, 1995
(2 / 18 Ansari Road, New Delhi, 110 002)

Return of the Aryans
by Bhagwan S. Gidwani
Penguin-India, 1994 (also Penguin-Canada)
943 page


Reviewed by C. J. S. Wallia

When I first heard about Gidwani's assertion in Return of the Aryans that the Black Sea and Germany's Black Forest were named in memory of dark-skinned Aryans from India, I thought his suggestion preposterous. Now, after reading the above four books, the suggested origin of these names begins to appear in the realm of the plausible.

The "standard" textbooks on India's early history, written by Eurocentric historians, have recently been challenged by postcolonial historians. Several new books question many of the "standard" assertions by presenting convincing evidence -- linguistic, literary, archaeological, geological (including recent Indo-French satellite photography), and astronomical. The postcolonialists call for a thorough rewrite of the erroneous history textbooks used in schools and colleges worldwide, including, sadly, those in India.

There never was any "Aryan" invasion of India, nor any "Aryan"-"Dravidian" war. The term "Arya" meant good, referring to quality of behavior, not race. Likewise "dasyu" referred to misconduct, not another race. The Rig Veda was composed not in 1200 B.C.; it was completed in 3700 B.C. The cradle of civilization is not Sumeria in Mesopotamia, but the Sapta Sindhu, the land of seven rivers, in northwest India. From the densely populated Sapta Sindhu, Sanskrit-speaking people migrated to Iran, Greece, and further West.

Commenting on Rajaram and Frawley, Professor Klaus Klostermaier of the University of Manitoba, writes:

"The facts referred to in this work are incontrovertible. The conclusions drawn have a high degree of plausibility. Consequently, the implications are nothing less than sensational....Rajaram and Frawley are true pioneers blazing new trails."

And so is Subhash Kak, Sanskrit scholar and computer scientist, co-author of In Search of the Cradle of Civilization, who has analyzed the astronomical code of the Rig Veda. Drawing on Kak's work and other evidence, Rajaram has established the period 4000-3700 B.C. for the composition of the Rig Veda.

The "standard" textbooks on early Indian history are an example of the adage that history books are written to reflect the views of the conqueror. In the late eighteenth century, when many Sanskrit classics, were first translated into contemporary European languages, they drew great admiration from Europe's major intellectual luminaries like Voltaire, Goethe, and Hegel. For example, G.W. F. Hegel wrote that India was"the starting-point for the whole Western world." Later, in the nineteenth century, the same Hegel dismissed the Puranas chronologies as fabrications and generally disparaged Indian history. Why this reversal? Nineteenth century European imperialism distorted European perceptions and brought forth racist attitudes. The colonized people and their culture came to be seen as inferior. Hegel's reversal exemplifies this changed perception.





However, eighteenth- and nineteenth-century European historians had to contend with a puzzling philological fact: the classical language of India, Sanskrit, and the classical languages of Europe, Greek and Latin, were closely related. In the words of William Jones, one of the earliest to make a systematic study of this resemblance, "... a stronger affinity than could possibly have been produced by accident; so strong, indeed, that no philologer could examine them all three, without first believing them to have sprung from some common source...The Sanskrit language is of wonderful structure, more perfect than the Greek, more copious than the Latin and more exquisitely refined than either." An example of the resemblance: the word for ten is dasha in Sanskrit, deka in Greek, and decem in Latin. Thousands of Sanskrit words such as pitah, brahta, raja have cognates in nearly all European languages. Based on the undeniable resemblance of these languages, philologists termed them Indo-European languages.

==============================

To detoxify yourself from the noxious Eurocentric notions injected by the "standard" history textbooks on India's cultural heritage, peruse these landmark books as soon as possible!

========================





To account for the common origin of Indo-European languages, several nineteenth- century European scholars hypothesized that in ancient times an invasion of India from Europe, by a people who spoke the original Indo-European language -- an "Aryan" invasion--must have occurred. In typical Eurocentric arrogance, they assumed, without any evidence, that the Aryans came from outside India. Principal among these "scholars" were Max Muller and Monier-Williams, both committed to denigrating India's cultural heritage in order to persuade Indians to convert to Christianity.

In a letter to his wife, Max Muller wrote: "This edition of mine and the translation of the Veda will hereafter tell to a great extent... the fate of India, and on the growth of millions of souls in that country. It is the root of their religion, and to show them what the root is, I feel sure, the only way of uprooting all that has sprung from it during the last 3000 years." Muller's purpose was to uproot Hinduism. Monier-Williams, in a speech given at Oxford to the Missionary Congress on 2 May 1877, said: "When the walls of the mighty fortress of Brahminism are encircled, undermined, and finally stormed by the soldiers of the Cross, the victory of Christianity must be signal and complete." Some objective scholars, these!

In picking a date for the supposed Aryan invasion of India by a supposed race of people, Rajaram writes: "Muller was strongly influenced by a current Christian belief that the creation of the world had taken place at 9:00 a.m. on 23 October 4004 BC. Assuming the date of 4004 BC for the creation of the world, as Muller did, leads to 2448 BC for the biblical Flood. If another thousand years is allowed for the waters to subside and for the soil to get dry enough for the Aryans to begin their invasion of India, we are left at around 1400 BC. Adding another two hundred years before they could begin composing the Rig Veda brings us right to Muller's date of 1200.BC...he used a ghost story from Somadeva's Kathasaritasagara to support this date." Some historical research, this!

Reader, to detoxify yourself from the noxious Eurocentric notions injected by the "standard" history textbooks on India's cultural heritage, peruse these two landmark books as soon as possible!

David Frawley, author of many books on Sanskrit literature, including Gods, Sages, and Kings: Vedic Secrets of Ancient Civilization, sumarizes his views on Vedic history, society, and geography in The Myth of the Aryan Invasion . Referring to the famous Battle of the Ten Kings in the Rig Veda, 3700 B.C., Frawley writes: "The Vedic war is a question of values, not race. It is a conflict between spiritual values and materialistic values, which occurs in all societies. Sometimes arya people become un-arya by a change in values, as indicated in the battle of Sudas....Even names of famous Vedic kings, such as Sudas and Devadasa have the ending of das or dasa meaning 'servant'." Sudas ruled the land of Sapta Sindhu, centered around the mighty Sarasvati river, which flowed from the Himalayas to the Rann of Kutch. After the Battle of the Ten Kings, many Indians migrated westwards into Iran and beyond.

Frawley observes that Max Muller, with his hidden Christian agenda, selectively lifted metaphorical passages from the Rig Veda to buttress his"Aryan invasion from Europe" theory. Taken in its entirety the literary evidence shows the Vedic civilization as an indigenous development.

In articles published in various journals Navaratna Rajaram, author of The Politics of History presents a chronological synthesis of ancient Indian civilization. One of the most interesting sections of his work is on the Sulbasutras, 3000 BC.,-- mathematical manuals for the design and construction of Vedic altars. Rajaram notes that A. Seidenberg, an American historian of science, in his paper entitled "Origin of Mathematics," published in the journal Archive for History of Exact Sciences, 1978, "established the Sulbasutras as the basis for the mathematics in Egypt, Babylonia, and Greece. This provides a mathematically rigorous foundation for the derivation of the chronology presented in this book."

The principal author of the Sulbasutras, Baudhayana, a South Indian, "discovered the theorem of Pythagoras some two thousand years before Pythagoras. His work was known in Egypt... as early as 2700 BC. He is the first known of the world's mathematicians." This is the civilization that invented mathematics.

Rajaram proposes a chronology of ancient Indian civilization as beginning before the archaeological evidence of the Mehrgarh site in the northwest, circa 6500 BC, the earliest and largest urban site of the period in the world. This site has yielded evidence for the earliest domestication of animals, evolution of agriculture, as well as arts and crafts. The horse was first domesticated here in 6500 BC. Mehrgarh, Harappa and Mohenjodaro are peripheral cities of the great Sarasvati civilization with more than 500 sites along its banks awaiting excavation. In 4500 BC, Mandhatr defeated the people of Druhyus, driving them to the west into Iran. 4000-3700 BC was the Rig Veda period. In 3730 BC occurred the Battle of Ten Kings-- the age of Sudas and his sage advisors, Vasishtha and Visvamitra. 3600 to 3100 BC was the late Vedic age during which Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Vedas were composed. 3100 BC is the date of the Mahabharata, composed by Vyasa. At this time, the Sarasvati river lost Yamuna because of a tectonic plate shift. It was the beginning of Kali Yuga. 3000 BC was the late Brahmanic period during which early Sutras were composed. In 1900 BC, another tectonic plate shift made Sarasvati lose Sutlej. This dried up Sarasvati, causing massive exodus of people to the east -- the Ganga valley, whence arose the classical civilization of India.

With more than 50 maps and illustrations, In Search of the Cradle of Civilization is a comprehensive book. The book's jacket quotes Deepak Chopra: "This is a scholarly masterpiece and belongs in the home and library of every person who wishes to evolve using the wisdom of the ages." One of its best sections is on the relation between the Indus-Sarasvati and the Brahmi scripts: by analyzing statistical computer-concordances, Subhash Kak has shown that"the most frequent letters of the Indus-Sarasvati and the Brahmi scripts look almost identical and share a rather similar frequency of occurrence." Kak also found that "the texts on the steatite seals follow grammatical rules like that of Sanskrit." Although deciphering of the script remains to be done, he suggests that the Brahmi is derived from Indus-Sarasvati.


Another excellent section of this book is "The Dravidian Puzzle": the authors note that "while scholars have identified some twenty Dravidian 'loan words' in the Rig Veda, the Dravidian languages have 'borrowed' at least fifty percent of their vocabulary from (Aryan) Sanskrit." Moreover, many Dravidian scholars credit "the creation of Tamil, the oldest Dravidian tongue, to Agastaya, who figures in the Rig Veda as one of the prominent sages of his era. The Dravidian kings historically have called themselves Aryans and have traced their descent through Manu....northern and southern India share a common culture and religion... God Shiva clearly is synonymous with the Vedic God Rudra." There was no Aryan invasion, no Dravidian invasion, no Aryan-Dravidian war. Sanskrit has been shown to include elements of Munda, the language of the tribals. All three language groups are indigenous developments.

Bhagwan S. Gidwani's Return of the Aryans, (Penguin-India, also distributed by Penguin-Canada) a recently published 943-page novel is a highly readable account of the Sapta Sindhu culture around 5100 BC as well as the migration of the Aryans from India to the West. It is a monumental work with a cast of thousands--among them the hero of mythic birth, Sindhu Putra, the physician-sage Dhanwantar and his wife Dhanwantarti.

In his introduction, the author says, "this novel will give a mosaic of a long-forgotten past to show that the Aryans did not belong to a different species, culture or race. Their cradle-grounds were the Sindhu, Ganga and Dravidian civilizations; and there is an unbroken continuity--spiritual, social and secular--between the pre-ancient civilizations of Bharat Varsha and the Aryans of 5000 BC.... The Aryans who left Bharat Varsha were not warriors or conquerors, not men of genius or madness; they were not adventurers or soldiers of fortune; and certainly, they were not religious zealots, fanatics or crusaders. These travellers simply had a dream that led them on towards the 'unreachable goal of finding a land that was pure and free from evil--and it was a road that led everywhere but finally nowhere' and at last they came to realize that there was no land of pure, except what a man might make of his own efforts."

This prodigiously researched historical novel presents a skillful exposition of the origin of writing, of mathematics, and technology (agriculture, metallurgy, boat-building, weaponry) in pre-ancient India. Particularly engaging are the chapters on the Aryans' journey from India to Mesopotamia, Egypt, Anatolia, Germany, and futher west. The author gives numerous examples of rivers and places named in Sanskrit language: Hari river and Hari rath (Herat), in Afghanistan, Dana (Danube) river in Europe. The Black Sea, near where they camped for a long time and built boats, and Germany's Black Forest are named in memory of the dark-skinned Aryans from India.

In 1996, Penguin (Canada) issued a press release that this novel had won the "Most Outstanding Book of the Year" award from the historical division of the research and reference center.

I recommend these four books to anyone interested in India's cultural heritage.

[synergy777]

shatkona - Google Search

the star of david vedic origin

[synergy777]

www.originsofwords.blogspot.com
www.wordorigins.wordpress.com

[synergy777]

FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS CONTRA APION CHAPTER 1 VERSE 22.

22. But now it is proper to satisfy the inquiry of those that disbelieve the records of barbarians, and think none but Greeks to be worthy of credit, and to produce many of these very Greeks who were acquainted with our nation, and to set before them such as upon occasion have made mention of us in their own writings. Pythagoras, therefore, of Samos, lived in very ancient times, and was esteemed a person superior to all philosophers in wisdom and piety towards God. Now it is plain that he did not only know our doctrines, but was in very great measure a follower and admirer of them. There is not indeed extant any writing that is owned for his (15) but many there are who have written his history, of whom Hermippus is the most celebrated, who was a person very inquisitive into all sorts of history. Now this Hermippus, in his first book concerning Pythagoras, speaks thus: "That Pythagoras, upon the death of one of his associates, whose name was Calliphon, a Crotonlate by birth, affirmed that this man's soul conversed with him both night and day, and enjoined him not to pass over a place where an ass had fallen down; as also not to drink of such waters as caused thirst again; and to abstain from all sorts of reproaches." After which he adds thus: "This he did and said in imitation of the doctrines of the Jews and Thracians, which he transferred into his own philosophy." For it is very truly affirmed of this Pythagoras, that he took a great many of the laws of the Jews into his own philosophy. Nor was our nation unknown of old to several of the Grecian cities, and indeed was thought worthy of imitation by some of them. This is declared by Theophrastus, in his writings concerning laws; for he says that "the laws of the Tyrians forbid men to swear foreign oaths." Among which he enumerates some others, and particularly that called Corban: which oath can only be found among the Jews, and declares what a man may call "A thing devoted to God." Nor indeed was Herodotus of Halicarnassus unacquainted with our nation, but mentions it after a way of his own, when he saith thus, in the second book concerning the Colchians. His words are these: "The only people who were circumcised in their privy members originally, were the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians; but the Phoenicians and those Syrians that are in Palestine confess that they learned it from the Egyptians. And for those Syrians who live about the rivers Thermodon and Parthenius, and their neighbors the Macrones, they say they have lately learned it from the Colchians; for these are the only people that are circumcised among mankind, and appear to have done the very same thing with the Egyptians. But as for the Egyptians and Ethiopians themselves, I am not able to say which of them received it from the other." This therefore is what Herodotus says, that "the Syrians that are in Palestine are circumcised." But there are no inhabitants of Palestine that are circumcised excepting the Jews; and therefore it must be his knowledge of them that enabled him to speak so much concerning them. Cherilus also, a still ancienter writer, and a poet, (16) makes mention of our nation, and informs us that it came to the assistance of king Xerxes, in his expedition against Greece. For in his enumeration of all those nations, he last of all inserts ours among the rest, when he says," At the last there passed over a people, wonderful to be beheld; for they spake the Phoenician tongue with their mouths; they dwelt in the Solymean mountains, near a broad lake: their heads were sooty; they had round rasures on them; their heads and faces were like nasty horse-heads also, that had been hardened in the smoke." I think, therefore, that it is evident to every body that Cherilus means us, because the Solymean mountains are in our country, wherein we inhabit, as is also the lake called Asphaltitis; for this is a broader and larger lake than any other that is in Syria: and thus does Cherilus make mention of us. But now that not only the lowest sort of the Grecians, but those that are had in the greatest admiration for their philosophic improvements among them, did not only know the Jews, but when they lighted upon any of them, admired them also, it is easy for any one to know. For Clearchus, who was the scholar of Aristotle, and inferior to no one of the Peripatetics whomsoever, in his first book concerning sleep, says that "Aristotle his master related what follows of a Jew," and sets down Aristotle's own discourse with him. The account is this, as written down by him: "Now, for a great part of what this Jew said, it would be too long to recite it; but what includes in it both wonder and philosophy it may not be amiss to discourse of. Now, that I may be plain with thee, Hyperochides, I shall herein seem to thee to relate wonders, and what will resemble dreams themselves. Hereupon Hyperochides answered modestly, and said, For that very reason it is that all of us are very desirous of hearing what thou art going to say. Then replied Aristotle, For this cause it will be the best way to imitate that rule of the Rhetoricians, which requires us first to give an account of the man, and of what nation he was, that so we may not contradict our master's directions. Then said Hyperochides, Go on, if it so pleases thee. This man then, [answered Aristotle,] was by birth a Jew, and came from Celesyria; these Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem. Now this man, when he was hospitably treated by a great many, came down from the upper country to the places near the sea, and became a Grecian, not only in his language, but in his soul also; insomuch that when we ourselves happened to be in Asia about the same places whither he came, he conversed with us, and with other philosophical persons, and made a trial of our skill in philosophy; and as he had lived with many learned men, he communicated to us more information than he received from us." This is Aristotle's account of the matter, as given us by Clearchus; which Aristotle discoursed also particularly of the great and wonderful fortitude of this Jew in his diet, and continent way of living, as those that please may learn more about him from Clearchus's book itself; for I avoid setting down any more than is sufficient for my purpose. Now Clearchus said this by way of digression, for his main design was of another nature. But for Hecateus of Abdera, who was both a philosopher, and one very useful ill an active life, he was contemporary with king Alexander in his youth, and afterward was with Ptolemy, the son of Lagus; he did not write about the Jewish affairs by the by only, but composed an entire book concerning the Jews themselves; out of which book I am willing to run over a few things, of which I have been treating by way of epitome. And, in the first place, I will demonstrate the time when this Hecateus lived; for he mentions the fight that was between Ptolemy and Demetrius about Gaza, which was fought in the eleventh year after the death of Alexander, and in the hundred and seventeenth olympiad, as Castor says in his history. For when he had set down this olympiad, he says further, that "in this olympiad Ptolemy, the son of Lagus, beat in battle Demetrius, the son of Antigonus, who was named Poliorcetes, at Gaza." Now, it is agreed by all, that Alexander died in the hundred and fourteenth olympiad; it is therefore evident that our nation flourished in his time, and in the time of Alexander. Again, Hecateus says to the same purpose, as follows: "Ptolemy got possession of the places in Syria after that battle at Gaza; and many, when they heard of Ptolemy's moderation and humanity, went along with him to Egypt, and were willing to assist him in his affairs; one of whom (Hecateus says) was Hezekiah (17) the high priest of the Jews; a man of about sixty-six years of age, and in great dignity among his own people. He was a very sensible man, and could speak very movingly, and was very skillful in the management of affairs, if any other man ever were so; although, as he says, all the priests of the Jews took tithes of the products of the earth, and managed public affairs, and were in number not above fifteen hundred at the most." Hecateus mentions this Hezekiah a second time, and says, that "as he was possessed of so great a dignity, and was become familiar with us, so did he take certain of those that were with him, and explained to them all the circumstances of their people; for he had all their habitations and polity down in writing." Moreover, Hecateus declares again, "what regard we have for our laws, and that we resolve to endure any thing rather than transgress them, because we think it right for us to do so." Whereupon he adds, that "although they are in a bad reputation among their neighbors, and among all those that come to them, and have been often treated injuriously by the kings and governors of Persia, yet can they not be dissuaded from acting what they think best; but that when they are stripped on this account, and have torments inflicted upon them, and they are brought to the most terrible kinds of death, they meet them after an extraordinary manner, beyond all other people, and will not renounce the religion of their forefathers." Hecateus also produces demonstrations not a few of this their resolute tenaciousness of their laws, when he speaks thus: "Alexander was once at Babylon, and had an intention to rebuild the temple of Belus that was fallen to decay, and in order thereto, he commanded all his soldiers in general to bring earth thither. But the Jews, and they only, would not comply with that command; nay, they underwent stripes and great losses of what they had on this account, till the king forgave them, and permitted them to live in quiet." He adds further, that "when the Macedonians came to them into that country, and demolished the [old] temples and the altars, they assisted them in demolishing them all (18) but [for not assisting them in rebuilding them] they either underwent losses, or sometimes obtained forgiveness." He adds further, that "these men deserve to be admired on that account." He also speaks of the mighty populousness of our nation, and says that "the Persians formerly carried away many ten thousands of our people to Babylon, as also that not a few ten thousands were removed after Alexander's death into Egypt and Phoenicia, by reason of the sedition that was arisen in Syria." The same person takes notice in his history, how large the country is which we inhabit, as well as of its excellent character, and says, that "the land in which the Jews inhabit contains three millions of arourae, (19) and is generally of a most excellent and most fruitful soil; nor is Judea of lesser dimensions." The same man describe our city Jerusalem also itself as of a most excellent structure, and very large, and inhabited from the most ancient times. He also discourses of the multitude of men in it, and of the construction of our temple, after the following manner: "There are many strong places and villages (says he) in the country of Judea; but one strong city there is, about fifty furlongs in circumference, which is inhabited by a hundred and twenty thousand men, or thereabouts; they call it Jerusalem. There is about the middle of the city a wall of stone, whose length is five hundred feet, and the breadth a hundred cubits, with double cloisters; wherein there is a square altar, not made of hewn stone, but composed of white stones gathered together, having each side twenty cubits long, and its altitude ten cubits. Hard by it is a large edifice, wherein there is an altar and a candlestick, both of gold, and in weight two talents: upon these there is a light that is never extinguished, either by night or by day. There is no image, nor any thing, nor any donations therein; nothing at all is there planted, neither grove, nor any thing of that sort. The priests abide therein both nights and days, performing certain purifications, and drinking not the least drop of wine while they are in the temple." Moreover, he attests that we Jews went as auxiliaries along with king Alexander, and after him with his successors. I will add further what he says he learned when he was himself with the same army, concerning the actions of a man that was a Jew. His words are these: "As I was myself going to the Red Sea, there followed us a man, whose name was Mosollam; he was one of the Jewish horsemen who conducted us; he was a person of great courage, of a strong body, and by all allowed to be the most skillful archer that was either among the Greeks or barbarians. Now this man, as people were in great numbers passing along the road, and a certain augur was observing an augury by a bird, and requiring them all to stand still, inquired what they staid for. Hereupon the augur showed him the bird from whence he took his augury, and told him that if the bird staid where he was, they ought all to stand still; but that if he got up, and flew onward, they must go forward; but that if he flew backward, they must retire again. Mosollam made no reply, but drew his bow, and shot at the bird, and hit him, and killed him; and as the augur and some others were very angry, and wished imprecations upon him, he answered them thus: Why are you so mad as to take this most unhappy bird into your hands? for how can this bird give us any true information concerning our march, who could not foresee how to save himself? for had he been able to foreknow what was future, he would not have come to this place, but would have been afraid lest Mosollam the Jew should shoot at him, and kill him." But of Hecateus's testimonies we have said enough; for as to such as desire to know more of them, they may easily obtain them from his book itself. However, I shall not think it too much for me to name Agatharchides, as having made mention of us Jews, though in way of derision at our simplicity, as he supposes it to be; for when he was discoursing of the affairs of Stratonice, "how she came out of Macedonia into Syria, and left her husband Demetrius, while yet Seleueus would not marry her as she expected, but during the time of his raising an army at Babylon, stirred up a sedition about Antioch; and how, after that, the king came back, and upon his taking of Antioch, she fled to Seleucia, and had it in her power to sail away immediately yet did she comply with a dream which forbade her so to do, and so was caught and put to death." When Agatharehides had premised this story, and had jested upon Stratonice for her superstition, he gives a like example of what was reported concerning us, and writes thus: "There are a people called Jews, and dwell in a city the strongest of all other cities, which the inhabitants call Jerusalem, and are accustomed to rest on every seventh day (20) on which times they make no use of their arms, nor meddle with husbandry, nor take care of any affairs of life, but spread out their hands in their holy places, and pray till the evening. Now it came to pass, that when Ptolemy, the son of Lagus, came into this city with his army, that these men, in observing this mad custom of theirs, instead of guarding the city, suffered their country to submit itself to a bitter lord; and their law was openly proved to have commanded a foolish practice. (21) This accident taught all other men but the Jews to disregard such dreams as these were, and not to follow the like idle suggestions delivered as a law, when, in such uncertainty of human reasonings, they are at a loss what they should do." Now this our procedure seems a ridiculous thing to Agatharehides, but will appear to such as consider it without prejudice a great thing, and what deserved a great many encomiums; I mean, when certain men constantly prefer the observation of their laws, and their religion towards God, before the preservation of themselves and their country

[eternal_spirit]

All religion started in India so some say. Shiva male principle, Shakti female principle, put them both together equals the star. Aliens, the chariots of the God's in vedic Literature, the star people.

Not the best of replys lol.

[edit]

THANK YOU Synergy777 !!!

This is great thread!!!

1. VOCABULARY

One of Shukla's strong points is the considerable vocabulary shared by Hebrew and Sanskrit. Indeed, M.M.Shukla has concentrated on providing a large list of of words which are common to Hebrew and Sanskrit. Thus, he provides the following examples:

"The word, 'Sva?' means 'heaven' or 'paradise' in Sanskrit. This word, written as 'svam' may assume the form, 'Sam-yim' which means, 'sky' and/or 'heaven' in Hebrew, while it may become 'Asvah' under the influence of the principle of vowelization. Sometimes, the sound 'a' may change to 'ya' and thus, the derivation, 'Asvah' or 'Asuah' may change to 'Yasuah' which is nearer to a Hebrew word, 'Yasuah' (= salvation).... It may be mentioned that 'Appa' is a Marathi word. The derivation 'Appa' may further change to 'Abba' (p=b), which is a Hebrew word... Now let us consider the root-word 'Svas'. It may change first to 'Vas' and thence to Bas or 'Bes' which is a Hebrew word though with different meaning, ie. 'daughter'." (Shukla 1979, p.45)

He also suggests that Surios gave rise to Kurios, or Kur (ibid., p.48) Shukla notes that 'Abru' and 'Uparohita' exist in Persian and Avadhi Hindi, distinct from Skt. bhru and purohita (Shukla 1979, p.44)

'Yasuah' (= salvation)....

as...v becomes b, and then also p >

Svas - Sbas - Spas

so....
Spas - also in Slavic is => salvation....

:p ;O)

[edit]

Posted by:Northwind
Today, 11:15 PM


Magnetic & Electric fields

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To what importance do magnetic and electric fileds play in shaping our uinverse?

Just kinda thinking what would be the most effiecient why of "moving" matter around.

Just it seems like a great way of moving H for instance, strip an electron, accelerate to some % of c, then "capture" it again via recombination.

Seems mother nature has it right

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=58428

[edit]

Rohini - Red Deer - Daughter - Saviour - Spas

Magnetic & Electric fields (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=58428)
a rare thing these days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereid

Quote:

Seems mother nature has it right

In what way?


earth's magnetic flux ... (in a space way.. a subtle magnetic flux) ..eg. ...like these ways, maybe ? >


Research sheds light on memory by erasing it
http://www.physorg.com/news97864344.html
Researchers uncover factors that control ion motion in solid electrolytes
http://www.physorg.com/news97847595.html
Meditation may fine-tune control over attention
http://www.physorg.com/news97825611.html

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Last edited by a rare thing these days : Today at 10:37 AM. Reason: memory..space... a subtle magnetic flux


Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary, Red-Roos, Theosophical U Pre (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:QKHMzjoQ1YUJ:www.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/red-roos.htm+rohini+red+deer&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=nl&lr=lang_en)

Rohinila (Sanskrit) [from rohini red + nila blue] "The ancient name of a ... for that purpose into a buck or red deer (rohita), Brahma's color being red. ...


The Lunar zodiac
Indian Star Names (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:oYKFNNU7PS0J:tanmoy.tripod.com/naksatra.html+rohini+red+deer&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=nl&lr=lang_en)
kRttikA (কৃত্তিকা)
This word probably derives from a word meaning ‘to cut’ or one related to ‘cart’. This is represented by a flame or a razor, and it consists of 6 stars which are commonly called the Pleiades in the west. This group of stars has been associated with agni, the god of fire. Alcyone/Alcor (η Taurii) amongst them is called ambA (অম্বা) (meaning ‘mother’) or arundhatI (অরুন্ধতী) (meaning related to ‘not obstructing’). It is the junction star with rohiNI.

rohiNI or brAhmI (রোহিণী, ব্রাহ্মী)
The former name is probably derived from a word meaning ‘rise’ or one meaning ‘red’, ‘red cow’, or ‘red deer’, whereas the latter is derived from a root which means ‘to grow’. It is represented by a wheeled vehicle, temple or fish. It lies about 10° south east of Pleiades and consists of the five stars α (Aldebaran, which sometimes is alone called rohiNI), β (sometimes called agni or hutabhuj (অগ্নি, হুতভুক্), both meaning ‘sacrificial fire’), Θ1,2, γ, δ, and ε-Tauri. In the west these comprise the constellation of Hyades. It also includes three stars from Auriga: α (Capella) and δ-Aurigae (called prajApati (প্রজাপতি) meaning ‘lord of the born’). The former is probably the same as the star called brahma-hRdaYa (ব্রহ্মহৃদয়) (meaning the ‘heart’ or ‘inside’ of brahma, the original principle, derived from a word for growth), or aryaman (অর্যমা) (meaning a ‘bosom friend’, one of the important deities, the word being derived from a root meaning to ‘go straight’ or to ‘rise’ usually related to being honourable. Aldebaran is the junction with mRgashIra. Confusingly, jyeSThA is sometimes also called rohiNI

mRgashIrA or AgrahAYanI (মৃগশীরা, আগ্রহায়নী)
The former means ‘the head of wild game beast’, and the latter is related to ‘beginning of the year’. It is represented by the head of an antelope and consists of the three stars in Orion: λ and φ1,2. λ is the junction star with ArdrA. It is also called mRgashIrSa (মৃগশীর্ষ) (same meaning), andhaka (অন্ধক) (blind), AryikA (আর্যিকা) (honourable woman), and invaka (ইন্বক) (pervading).

The entire constellation of orion was originally pictured as prajApati (প্রজাপতি) (meaning ‘lord of creatures’) in the form of a mRga (মৃগ) (meaning ‘game animal’; α or Betelgeuze which forms the left forearm and therefore called bAhu (বাহু), β or Rigel, γ or Bellatrix also called bAhu, and κ forming the legs and feet of the animal) going after his daughter rohiNI (the previous asterism; sometimes uSas (উষা), the morning or evening light appears instead). The nearby mRgavyAdha (মৃগব্যাধ) (meaning ‘hunter of game animal’, called Sirius in the west) stopped him with an arrow (iSus trikANDa (ইষুস্ত্রিকাণ্ড), meaning ‘arrow in three pieces’, identified with the belt of orion consisiting of δ, ε, ζ). This arrow is now also considered part of the asterism. A human concept of prajapati is in the description of hastA to anurAdhA below.

[synergy777]

eternal, it is a good reply. i have noriced, that if anything shalks the jews are chosen people, or jews are zionist/khazers, it gets ignored. people either side with jews or attack them. when if one wants the truth, the jews are being used, the jews we have today are khazerian etc, they thus supported by the british israel camp/tribe of dan/union of jacob = union jack. this is all derived from white jesus and vatican lies. they use these lies to use these powers to their biding. look the real power, "black pope", look at the vatican coat of arms, a black yashuah/jesus, do as we say, not as we do, sheep.

the same historian they used to find herods tomb, has stated that jews are indian philosophers, can you imagine how powerful the vedic technolgy/knowledge was then. even now vedic maths is faster than western maths, in those days they had algebra, aryuvedic medcine, yoga. they were the most advanced people. so add this to aristotle, another clever bloke, lol i think we have some very good authorities.

it shows the lemuria/rama = global vedic. add this to the africa/india, sister nation, which they are, then from ethiopia to india, india, to iraq/babylon persia/hyskos/aryan to israel, and to egypt. from egypt to greece, greece to rome. this is the flow of world culture/civilisation. grandmother africa, mother india, daughter europa.

edit, nice to see you bro or sis? keep dropping your abstract stuff, why not visit illusions, inner i, catch up with old friends.

yashuah from yahweh. hence yah is salvation = yashuah. yashuah/yoshuah ben(son of) yosef (joseph). no j in hebrew alphabet.

[synergy777]

Ancient African Kings Of India
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2498
" the african origins of india"

Return of the Aryans by Bhagwan S.Gidwani
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3066
" the western hijacking of aryan culture"


Romani / रोमानी
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1966
"panjabi origins of romani"
hence their genocide in ww2, also fully shows the extent of migration from india to europe this include the gitanos/spanish gypsies(aryan).

connect the dots, also ARYAN = IRAN, ARYA =EIRE=THE DRUIDS/BRAHMINS

[synergy777]

also christ in india thread is great read.

http://www.atmajyoti.org/sw_unknown_life.asp

The Unknown Life of Jesus Christ
Nicholas Notovich

In 1887, a Russian, Nicholas Notovich, journeyed to India to study Hindu culture. (Today we would call him an anthropologist.) Eventually Notovich arrived in Ladakh on the northern border of India, from whence he intended to return to Russia through Karakorum and Chinese Turkestan. While in Ladakh he was told by the abbot of a Buddhist monastery that manuscripts recording the life of Jesus were to be found in Lhasa-at that time absolutely closed to any "white" man, as was the entire country of Tibet. Despite this prohibition, Notovich determined to force his way to Lhasa in search of the rumored records. While still in Leh, the capital of Ladakh, Notovich visited the monastery of Himis and spoke with its abbot. When he asked the abbot if he knew anything of Isha, was amazed to receive this reply:

"The name of Isha is held in great respect by the Buddhists, But little is known about him save by the chief lamas, who have read the scrolls relative to his life....Among [the manuscripts of our monastery library] are to be found descriptions of the life and acts of the Buddha Isha, who preached the holy doctrine in India and among the children of Israel and who was put to death by the pagans, whose descendants have since embraced the tenets he then propagated,....

"The great Buddha, Soul of the Universe is the incarnation of Brahma. He remains almost always in passivity, preserving within himself all things from the beginning of time, and his breath vivifies the world. Having abandoned man to his own resources, he yet at certain epochs comes forth from his inertia, taking upon himself a human form to save his creatures from irremediable ruin.

"During his earthly existence, Buddha crates a new world among his scattered people. And after having fulfilled his task, he leaves the earth to reassume his invisible condition and his life of perfect bliss.

"Three thousand years ago, the great Buddha became incarnate in the celebrated prince Sakyamuni, thus continuing the scheme of his twenty incarnations....Simultaneously with the advent of Buddhism in China, its tenets were diffused amongst the Israelites [by Isha].

"Nearly two thousand years ago the perfect Being, again breaking through his state of inaction, became incarnate in the newborn infant of a poor family. It was his will that a child in simple words should enlighten the ignorant as to the life eternal-by his own example, bringing men back to the ways of truth in setting before them the paths most surely leading to the attainment of moral purity.

"When the holy child was still a boy, he was taken to India, where until manhood he studied the laws of the great Buddha who dwells eternally in heaven....

[synergy777]

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/the_lost_years_of_jesus.html

In her best-selling book, Out on a Limb, Shirley MacLaine recounts how a friend once said to her: "You know that nothing is recorded in the Bible about Christ from the time he was about twelve until he began to really teach at about thirty years old. Right?" "Yes," MacLaine replied, "I had heard about that and I just figured he didn't have much to say until he got older." "Well, no," her friend responded, "a lot of people think that those eighteen missing years were spent traveling in and around India and Tibet and Persia and the Near East. They say he became an adept yogi and mastered complete control over his body and the physical world around him[he] tried to teach people that they could do the same things too if they got more in touch with their spiritual selves and their own potential power."

now why would the elite stop you realising the brahma/creator in you, well one neo is hard, an army of them, game over for the nwo.

[edit]

Thanks Synergy777 :)

Here is about Savior... some more >

(Japanese, Miroku; Chinese, Mi-lo Fwo; Tibetan, Byams-pa; Vietnamese, Di-lac; Korean, Mi-rug)

According to some Buddhist traditions, the period of the Buddhist Law is divided into three stages: a first period of 500 years, of the turning the Wheel of the Law; a second period of 1,000 years, of the deterioration of the Law, and a third period of 3,000 years (called Mappo in Japan) during which no one practises the Law. After this, Buddhism having disappeared, a new Buddha will appear who will again turn the Wheel of the Law. This future Buddha is still in the Tusita heaven, in the state of a Bodhisattva. Gautama Buddha himself will enthrone him as his successor. The name means 'benevolence' or 'friendship'. He is now living his last existence as a Bodhisattva. In anticipation of his imminent arrival, he is sometimes considered as a Buddha and given the title of Tathagata.

Maitreya is the only celestial Bodhisattva recognized by the sects of the Theravada school, who represented him from the outset. His images appear in Gandhara, perhaps even before those of the Buddha (with whom he was perhaps confused): he is represented standing or seated, as an ornamented Buddha, with long thin hair on the shoulders or tied in a chignon on his head, his hands in Dharmacakra mudra when seated, or in Vitarka and Varada mudras when standing.


http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/images/maitreya.jpg In Tibet, when he is represented seated, his legs hang (in the European manner) and he is clothed as a Buddha. (The image on left is of the Maitreya Project Statue being built in Bodh Gaya, India). This is the form he assumes in Java in the eighth-century temple, the Chandi Mendut. His representations abound throughout Buddhist Asia. Yet he is usually shown as a Bodhisattva, standing and adorned with jewels, rather than seated. In certain images representing him in the sky Tusita, he appears seated with his legs in Padmasana. He is recognized by wearing a small stupa in his headdress. His attributes may vary, and he may hold a vase or a wheel (cakra) placed on lotus flowers. A scarf is always tied around his waist. Sometimes an antelope skin covers his left shoulder. He often forms a triad with Sakyamuni and Avalokitesvara; in fact, in Sri Lanka, sculptures thought to depict Avalokitesvara have been reinterpreted as showing Maitreya.

In Korea and Japan, where his cult enjoyed great favour from the sixth century, he is often confused (as in China) with Amitabha and Sakyamuni. In sculpture, he was sometimes confused with Nyoirin Kannon in Japan, a form of Avalokitesvara. He was also given the name of Jishi Bosatsu, 'He who is full of pity'. He was first likened to Kami Hachiman, a deification of the Japanese Emperor Ojin (third century), and was later considered an incarnation of Amitabha, serving as an intermediary between Gautama (the world of mortals) and Amitabha (the world of the beyond).

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/maitreya2.htm

[edit]

Oh, and.. < Sometimes an antelope skin covers his left shoulder >
antilope is a kind of deer ( roHiNI in Sk.)

AntilopePallas --> http://www.montoutou.com/AntilopePallas.jpg

It could be as well red and black too, or >

http://users.tamuk.edu/kfjab02/Biology/Mammalogy/images/antilope.jpg
http://users.tamuk.edu/kfjab02/Biology/Mammalogy/systematics/A7artiodactyla.htm
http://www.montoutou.com/AntilopePallas.html

[edit]

Furthermore, he notes, "Savit? = Savitru (? -> ru) -> Sabiru (v=b) = Habitru (s=h)" -> Habiru = Habiru = PR Egyptian, Apiru, Ibru, Ibri, Ibrin." (Shukla 1979, p.51)


Habiru = Hebiru =Hibiru = Nibiru

Nibiru

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Quill_and_ink.svg/35px-Quill_and_ink.svg.png This writing system-related article is a stub.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Cyrillic_letter_En.png

En (Н, н) is a letter of the Cyrillic alphabet. It represents the consonant /n/ unless followed by ь or any of the palatalizing vowels when it becomes /nʲ/. It looks exactly like the Latin capital letter H, but it is derived from the Greek letter nu (Ν, ν).

The letter I (И, и), which looks like a backwards N, derives from Η (eta) while the letter En (Н, н) derives from Greek Ν (nu) which looks like a backwards cyrillic И.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En_%28Cyrillic%29


Nibiru (hypothetical planet)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The term "Nibiru" comes from the Sumerian cuneiform tablets and writings dating 5,000 years old. The term Nibiru means "Planet of the crossing", and it's cuneiform sign was often a cross, or various winged disc. The Sumerian culture is the first recorded civilization on earth, in the fertile lands between the Euphrates and Tigris rivers,...

[edit] Archaeoastronomy
Due to its use in opposition to the phrase itebbiru "who used to cross," Landsberger and Kinnier Wilson1 suggest that it refers to a stationary point in the heavens.1 In a reconstruction of Tablet V of the Enûma Elish by Landsberger and Kinnier Wilson, the word ni-bi-ri (variant: ni-bi-ru and ni-bi-a-na) is translated as "pole star."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_%28hypothetical_planet%29


.
.


The Hindu Cosmos
Umma*
One of Shiva's wives. She represents motherhood, nuturing, and family.

[edit]

Habiru = Hebiru =Hibiru = Nibiru

Nibiru

from :
The Pentagram, Stars and other Symbols
see > http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2368&page=7
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6156/1107uh3.gif (http://imageshack.us)

This symbol pointed out something to me. I found : It is the symbol of extra terrestrial ones of Ummo which, according to letters sent by them (if it's not a hoax), revealed this logo :

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4643/ummof05ghj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummo




Shcha or Shta (Щ, щ) is a letter of the Cyrillic alphabet, representing the consonant /ɕː/ or /ɕʨ/ in Russian, /ʃʧ/ or /ɕʨ/ in Ukrainian, and the consonant cluster /ʃt/ in Bulgarian. Originally, this letter was a ligature of sha and te (Ш + Т = Щ), with the descender in the middle of the sha, and is descended from the Glagolitic letter Shta: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/GlagolitsaShta.gif.
This letter is the most troublesome for romanization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shcha

Sha (Ш, ш) is the last letter of the Cyrillic alphabet
Sha is one of the most typical letters of the Cyrillic alphabet.

Sha has its earliest origins in Hebrew Shin (ש), and is linked closely to Shin's Greek equivalent, Sigma (Σ, σ).

There is a possibility that Sha was taken from the Coptic alphabet, which was the same as the Greek alphabet but had a few letters added at the end, including one called "shai" which somewhat resembles both sha and shcha in appearance.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sha"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sha


Zhe (Ж, ж) is the letter of Cyrillic alphabet
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Cyrillic_letter_Zhe.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Quill_and_ink.svg/35px-Quill_and_ink.svg.png This writing system-related article is a stub.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Cyrillic_letter_En.png

En (Н, н) is a letter of the Cyrillic alphabet. It represents the consonant /n/ unless followed by ь or any of the palatalizing vowels when it becomes /nʲ/. It looks exactly like the Latin capital letter H, but it is derived from the Greek letter nu (Ν, ν).

The letter I (И, и), which looks like a backwards N, derives from Η (eta) while the letter En (Н, н) derives from Greek Ν (nu) which looks like a backwards cyrillic И.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En_%28Cyrillic%29

... /UMMA/http://www.shabdaonline.com/images/ms_uma_parvati-140x105.jpg
http://members.aol.com/hindunet/pics/gods/shiva04.jpg


The Hindu Cosmos
Umma*
One of Shiva's wives. She represents motherhood, nuturing, and family.
http://uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/religionet/er/hinduism/HCOSMOS.HTM
http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/womeninpower/Womeninpower1800-filer/image025.jpg
Rani Gouri Parvati Bai

UM-MA -- Mother of the MIND
Ma = Mother in Sanskrit
( Um = Mind in Slavic, Mozak = The brain )
Brains, Mind, Reason -- Body, Soul, Spirit
There is a sayings in Sl. < How is your mind reasoning ? >
or ... Reason uma



Furthermore, he notes, "Savit? = Savitru (? -> ru) -> Sabiru (v=b) = Habitru (s=h)" -> Habiru = Habiru = PR Egyptian, Apiru, Ibru, Ibri, Ibrin." (Shukla 1979, p.51)


Habiru = Hebiru =Hibiru = Nibiru

Nibiru

and..

THE MYSTERIOUS HABIRU

Other evidence strengthens a postulate that the Habiru/Habiri were Hebrew people.

click > CHAPTER 29
THE MYSTERIOUS HABIRU (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:09GjOYcepVgJ:www.world-destiny.org/a29hab.htm+Habiru+%3D+Ibru+Hebrew+means&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=nl)


The Timeless Ka-biri
The Kabiri or the Kabirim [the name is Phoenician] were Deities and very mysterious gods with the ancient nations, including the Israelites, and were held ...
http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/TheTimelessKabiri.html


Zohar Kabiri
Zohar Kabiri design a custom-made
wedding dresses and clothing
for celebrations.
www.zokoka.com/

[edit]

All those elements...
Posted by:Northwind
Today, 11:15 PM


Magnetic & Electric fields

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To what importance do magnetic and electric fileds play in shaping our uinverse?

Just kinda thinking what would be the most effiecient why of "moving" matter around.

Just it seems like a great way of moving H for instance, strip an electron, accelerate to some % of c, then "capture" it again via recombination.

Seems mother nature has it right

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=58428

The Elements Song
by Tom Lehrer
http://louhi.kempele.fi/~skyostil/archive/dump/flash/elements.swf
The Metallicity Distribution Function…!

„The Oldest Stars
in our Galaxy“

Discovery of HE 1523-0901, a Strongly r-Process Enhanced Metal-Poor Star with Detected Uranium
10 May 2007

http://images.spaceref.com/news/2007/phot-23a-07-preview.jpg

Milky Way's oldest star is 13.2 billion years old
Friday 11th May, 2007
(ANI)

Washington, May 11 : An international team of astronomers have measured the age of an ancient star in the Milky Way galaxy - an extraordinary 13.2 billion years - born soon after the Big Bang.

According to Anna Frebel of The University of Texas, who led the team, the star's age is close to that of the universe of 13.7 billion years.

Star Shows Its Age

Making a rainbow

Cosmic timeline
Big Bang
First stars
Second generation
Observations
Theory

' Earth no longer a Planet '
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3645&page=2
We are Children of the
Stars…!

[edit]

Thanks Synergy777 :)

Here is about Savior... some more >




A sound way to turn heat into electricity


Published: 1 hour ago, 02:06 EST, June 04, 2007
www.physorg.com

University of Utah physicists developed small devices that turn heat into sound and then into electricity. The technology holds promise for changing waste heat into electricity, harnessing solar energy and cooling computers and radars.

Full story here » (http://www.physorg.com/news100141616.html)


How to Get Power from Heat and Sound

Symko’s work on converting heat into electricity via sound stems from his ongoing research to develop tiny thermoacoustic refrigerators for cooling electronics.

In 2005, he began a five-year heat-sound-electricity conversion research project named Thermal Acoustic Piezo Energy Conversion (TAPEC). Symko works with collaborators at Washington State University and the University of Mississippi.

The project has received $2 million in funding during the past two years, and Symko hopes it will grow as small heat-sound-electricity devices shrink further so they can be incorporated in micromachines (known as microelectromechanical systems, or MEMS) for use in cooling computers and other electronic devices such as amplifiers.

Using sound to convert heat into electricity has two key steps. Symko and colleagues developed various new heat engines (technically called "thermoacoustic prime movers") to accomplish the first step: convert heat into sound.

Then they convert the sound into electricity using existing technology: "piezoelectric" devices that are squeezed in response to pressure, including sound waves, and change that pressure into electrical current. "Piezo" means pressure or squeezing.

Most of the heat-to-electricity acoustic devices built in Symko’s laboratory are housed in cylinder-shaped "resonators" that fit in the palm of your hand. Each cylinder, or resonator, contains a "stack" of material with a large surface area – such as metal or plastic plates, or fibers made of glass, cotton or steel wool – placed between a cold heat exchanger and a hot heat exchanger.

When heat is applied – with matches, a blowtorch or a heating element – the heat builds to a threshold. Then the hot, moving air produces sound at a single frequency, similar to air blown into a flute.

"You have heat, which is so disorderly and chaotic, and all of a sudden you have sound coming out at one frequency," Symko says.

Then the sound waves squeeze the piezoelectric device, producing an electrical voltage. Symko says it’s similar to what happens if you hit a nerve in your elbow, producing a painful electrical nerve impulse.

Longer resonator cylinders produce lower tones, while shorter tubes produce higher-pitched tones.

Devices that convert heat to sound and then to electricity lack moving parts, so such devices will require little maintenance and last a long time. They do not need to be built as precisely as, say, pistons in an engine, which loses efficiency as the pistons wear.

Symko says the devices won’t create noise pollution. First, as smaller devices are developed, they will convert heat to ultrasonic frequencies people cannot hear. Second, sound volume goes down as it is converted to electricity. Finally, "it’s easy to contain the noise by putting a sound absorber around the device," he says.

Studies Improve Efficiency of Acoustic Conversion of Heat to Electricity

Here are summaries of the studies by Symko’s doctoral students:

-- Student Bonnie McLaughlin showed it was possible to double the efficiency of converting heat into sound by optimizing the geometry and insulation of the acoustic resonator and by injecting heat directly into the hot heat exchanger.


She built cylindrical devices 1.5 inches long and a half-inch wide, and worked to improve how much heat was converted to sound rather than escaping. As little as a 90-degree Fahrenheit temperature difference between hot and cold heat exchangers produced sound. Some devices produced sound at 135 decibels – as loud as a jackhammer.

-- Student Nick Webb showed that by pressurizing the air in a similar-sized resonator, it was able to produce more sound, and thus more electricity.

He also showed that by increasing air pressure, a smaller temperature difference between heat exchangers is needed for heat to begin converting into sound. That makes it practical to use the acoustic devices to cool laptop computers and other electronics that emit relatively small amounts of waste heat, Symko says.

-- Numerous heat-to-sound-to-electricity devices will be needed to harness solar power or to cool large, industrial sources of waste heat. Student Brenna Gillman learned how to get the devices – mounted together to form an array – to work together.

For an array to efficiently convert heat to sound and electricity, its individual devices must be "coupled" to produce the same frequency of sound and vibrate in sync.

Gillman used various metals to build supports to hold five of the devices at once. She found the devices could be synchronized if a support was made of a less dense metal such as aluminum and, more important, if the ratio of the support’s weight to the array’s total weight fell within a specific range. The devices could be synchronized even better if they were "coupled" when their sound waves interacted in an air cavity in the support.

-- Student Ivan Rodriguez used a different approach in building an acoustic device to convert heat to electricity. Instead of a cylinder, he built a resonator from a quarter-inch-diameter hollow steel tube bent to form a ring about 1.3 inches across.

In cylinder-shaped resonators, sound waves bounce against the ends of the cylinder. But when heat is applied to Rodriguez’s ring-shaped resonator, sound waves keep circling through the device with nothing to reflect them.

Symko says the ring-shaped device is twice as efficient as cylindrical devices in converting heat into sound and electricity. That is because the .....

Full story here » (http://www.physorg.com/news100141616.html)
;)

[edit]

The Mighty Atom... (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=53498#post53498)
vishnu and ananta (http://www.tsso-ananta.nl/icms/ifiles/Image/vishnu%20and%20ananta.gif)

From where the material came from? - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum

http://www.omgili.com/preview/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5iYXV0Zm9ydW0uY29tL3Nob3d0aHJlYWQucG hwP3Q9NTQ2MDQ=

Click here to view the original discussion.
[http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54604]
Click here to search for discussions with Omgili forums search engine.


I kept asking myself where is the universe, but, the question the needs to be asked is from where the materials that build everything around us came from? since humans create and from example a car created from x,y,z the human thinking, is that everything got created somehow.


If you're asking about the origins of matter, a good primer on that question can be found here and here. Long story short, current astrophysics tells us that the early universe was dominated by high-energy photons.

Photons are known to spontaneously decay into particle and antiparticle pairs.

A portion of mass in the universe came about as a result of this particle decay.


Quote: Originally Posted by Scorch I kept asking myself where is the universe...
_______________________________




I remember hearing from my astronomy teacher that every single molecule of Hydrogen on the universe goes back to the big bang and that no new hydrogen was made.

All hydrogen on the universe....

In the air, water and in our bodies is the same stuff from the time everything was made... Pretty cool, huh? Quote: Originally Posted by Kaptain K Hydrogen and helium (and a very small amount of lithium) were created in the big bang.


All other elements were created in stars.


_________________________
Quote: Originally Posted by Professor Mayhem

If you're asking about the origins of matter, a good primer on that question can be found here and here. Long story short, current astrophysics tells us that the early universe was dominated by high-energy photons.

Photons are known to spontaneously decay into particle and antiparticle pairs.

A portion of mass in the universe came about as a result of this particle decay.

Your answering the "current astrophysics", is not answering his question, and it is probably the wrong question, in any case.

The question is not where did matter come from, or even where the high energy photons came from, but where did space come from? Enphilistor

http://www.omgili.com/preview/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5iYXV0Zm9ydW0uY29tL3Nob3d0aHJlYWQucG hwP3Q9NTQ2MDQ=



: Unifying Gravity and EM
sweetser 07-05-2006, 08:02 AM
Hello:



In a different forum, someone asked me about black holes and this proposal. For politeness sake, if you have any questions related to GEM theory, please do so right here.



The short answer is that I know the math behind very dense gravitational sources is going to be fundamentally different from what appears in general relativity, but I do not understand the details (and the details matter). The differences will be so significant that current efforts to understand black holes will have to be dismissed should GEM theory succeed both on experimental and theoretical grounds.



I have two ways so far of finding physically relevant applications of the GEM
theory. The first is the exponential metric that solves the field equations for a single spherical source with the choice of a constant potential. The second is a potential that in an approximation has a derivative with a 1/R^2 dependence. The potential gets plugged into a Lorentz force law to get to te same exponential metric expression (odd but true). In these two approaches, there is a point in the derivation where I say that the change in time is tiny compared to the changes in distance, so assume the small time contribution approximation. That is how one gets to the kinds of solutions we see often in Nature: changes in space dominate the near vacuum of a Universe we live in 13.6 billion years apres the big bang, with enough of a nod to changes in time that special relativity is respected.



Now consider the case where the changes in time are as significant as those that happen in space, a condition which may appear for very dense gravitational sources. The potential whose derivative is 1/R^2 via an application of perturbation theory will no longer be applicable. The potential will have a derivative that is 1/R^3, and then have a force that had the same inverse cubic dependence on distance. How odd! I have heard it said that an inverse cubic law is unphysical. That is true for a classical law of gravity. The math may give a different story for dense sources.



I recall from classes on differential equations taken decades ago that to say an equation was singular had a precise technical meaning. Nearly all researchers consider the point singularity that appears in general relativity as something worth working on, not a thin ice warning that could open up and drown a large body of work. There is a singularity for my field equations, but it is not a point singularity. Instead the equation blows up lightlike intervals, when tau^2=0. That may turn out to be a better deal, because we know there are particles like the

photon and graviton that live on the lightlike surface.



Should the GEM hypothesis get a following, the behavior of singular solutions will be a fun area of study.



doug



sweetser02-22-2007, 04:14 PM
Hello John:

There are quite a few statements in your note I find fall into that class "not even wrong." Sorry about that, but I can be precise.

>But QT predicts, Classical physics does not predict.

Newtonian mechanics, the Maxwell equations, even special and general relativity are considered to be classical physics, for the reason I gave (experimentalist can measure a number, the measurements are not quantized). The classical theories are only theories because they make predictions.

> All the experimental results are compactions of a single elementary particle; probably the graviton.

Different particles have different intrinsic spins. The graviton is predicted to have a spin of 2, while electrons have spin 1/2. One of the biggest implications of the difference in spin to characterize particles is the Pauli exclusion principle which applies to thos with half integral spin, but not integral spin. I would expect that should you make clear that there is a single elementary particle, that your proposal to the Independent Research Forum would be rejected on that ground alone. In the GEM proposal, the unified field strength tensor has a spin 1 particle, the photon, to do the work of EM, and a spin 2 graviton to do the work of gravity. Both are massless and travel at the speed c. The also differ because a photon is a transverse wave, while the graviton is a scalar or longitudinal mode of emission.

>The difference is caused by Einstein’s inclusion of movement. In order to understand what particles are and why they have there particular quantities it is necessary to examine structure not movement.

Modern field theory focuses on groups. The standard model was developed in the 1970's, so Einstein's post-mortem opinions don't matter on the subject at hand. Carl and I are working out the details of the groups U(1)xSU(2)xSU(3) which is at the heart of the standard model.

>Knowledge travels at the speed of the knowledge carrying particle, usually photons. This varies according to the density of the particles that the photons are passing through (gravitons). Each gravity field is its own time zone and this is the base of all those theories about time slowing down near black holes. Again there is no need for averaging and no disagreement with QT; classical theory is simpler.

I keep things simple, and work with the vacuum, or isolated currents in a vacuum. All my work so far has been for low energy densities. The math for high energy densities will be different for the GEM proposal, but I do not have the details.

>Newton’s graph of a gravity field without a central mass shows that absolute vacuum does not exist; the (vacuum) zero point has zero dimensions. It is where absolute vacuum would be if it existed. It is vacuum force emanating from the ZP that controls the structure of matter creating particles that are vacuum fields with mass (vacuum force carrier).

My proposal is not Newton's, so this point is not relevant. A vacuum is both well defined and observable: it is a place with an average energy density of zero. There is not such place, but most of the Universe is an excellent approximation of a vacuum, with a hydrogen hanging out in a cubic meter. There are no vacuum fields doing anything because they have no energy to do anything. The logic is simple. The deviation of the average is not zero, and that does not depend on the experimenter, but on a basic property of quantum mechanics, namely that complex numbers are needed.


>I have used the maximum attachment allowance to send you some tables from my proposal, only a fraction of table 4 can be included, but this should be sufficient to show the concept.

I will refrain from commenting further until/if your work is accepted here. As my comments above should indicate, I don't think your work does fit the criteria in the few bits I have seen. I appreciate your sincerity, but I cannot invest more time in work where I see fundamental errors are made. We will have to respectfully disagree with each other probably on most points I've tried to make.

doug

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CarlB02-22-2007, 07:04 PM
Doug,

What is |A^2=|a_0 e_0 + a_i e_i + a_j e_j + a_k e_k|^2 ?

I'm guessing it has to be a_0^2 \pm (a_i^2 + a_j^2 +a_k^2), but I'm not sure which sign to take. Am I right in supposing that it is a real number? I like to work with the + sign, but I'm guessing you're defining it as the - sign.

I need this to continue the analysis of the U(1)xSU(2) thingy. I'm sure it's obvious, thanks for bothering.

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sweetser02-22-2007, 08:33 PM
Hello Carl:

The norm of a quaternion is:
|A|^2=norm(A)=scalar(A^* A)=a_0^2+a_i^2+a_j^2+a_k^2
The norm can equal zero if and only if A=0, otherwise it is positive definite. The rule for the inverse of real, complex, and quaternion numbers can all be written exactly the same way:
A^{-1}= A^*/|A|^2
For the real numbers, the conjugate operation does nothing, but also don't hurt anything. For complex numbers, the imaginary part will flip a sign, then get hit by the norm. Same for quaternions.

So the answer is definitely the + sign.

doug

note added for fun: I have an animation of the norms of a bunch of quaternions. They all sit at the same place in 3D space: 0, 0, 0. What changes is how far in the future they are from now, t=0.

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View Full Version : Unifying Gravity and EM (http://physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-8259.htmlbr/t-87097.html)

[edit]

http://www.icarus5.com/

return of christ
Simon K
People Telecom

ISP Staff urobbert writes...
.
.Number one.
I am a carpenter.


Oh, well there you go! I'm convinced :D

Number 6.
On July 29th 1967 my wife conceived, I know, I was there at the time, it was my day off

I should hope you were there at the time Jesus

Number 9.
Hydrogen is the building blocks of the Universe, its tiny spinning orbits are squeezed together to form other elements. The sun produces 26 elements ending with iron aw 26. God is g = 7 o = 15 d =4 = 26. Greek concordance 26 = love, God is love. The nuclear fusion rate of the sun, is the conversion of 657 million tons of hydrogen into 652.5 million tons of helium, there are 657 verses in the New Testament with the word Lord.

Huh? Not sure how that proves he's Jesus...

Ah forget it, I could go on all day, and this stuff has probably already been posted a hundred times in this thread (sorry about that, I skipped to the end)

&gl=nl"]return of christ (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:FCn9rkKrYVMJ:forums.whirlpool.net.a u/forum-replies-archive.cfm/453532.html+bautforum+hydrogen+universe+every+mome nt+fusion&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=14Reflection Nebula in Ophiuchius [/B] (http://ryutao.main.jp/english/stl_ant.html)
IC4603, ..An interesting reflection nebula complex
located between Antares and Rho-Ophiuchi.
http://ryutao.main.jp/image/style/title_logo_e.gif

[edit]

Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > Life in Space > Human Origin
PaleBlueDot09-February-2007, 03:45 AM
Now here comes a funny one :
anything which involves (hu-)man's doings is usual called artifical, nonnatural etc. .
.
So to a certain degree "man created man according to her( am i PC enough) own (mental) image".................

???

That's an interesting point. However, I don't think that modern humans evolved based on a conscious breeding program. As far as I know, there were no ancient practitioners of eugenics who guided ours species' progress.

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satori09-February-2007, 03:27 PM
Dr Nigel,
it is interresting that you felt the need of putting in the adverb "generally" in your statement...
However, when we humans choose a mate, we generally do not make the choice based on what characteristics we wish to pass to our offspring. We make the choice based on what appeals to us personally and emotionally. We also do not take multiple generations and apply the same selection criteria to successive generations of a population (which is what tends to happen in selective breeding programmes).

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Dr Nigel09-February-2007, 07:09 PM
Dr Nigel,
it is interresting that you felt the need of putting in the adverb "generally" in your statement...

Interesting? I always try to be interesting.

In fact, it was simply that I did not wish to make a universal generalisation and claim it to be true. I meant only to imply that there may be exceptions, but that I was unaware of them.

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Fisherman10-March-2007, 09:42 PM
The Spirits created a unique Solar system in the Milky Way galaxy it would be a different system from all others in the universe. The sole purpose for the creation of this solar system was to conduct an experiment on Free Will through unique life forms that would only exist on one planet and the Earth was chosen for this purpose. The Earth had to be replenished with many necessary elements and as a result the planet was bombard with asteroids rich in elements. (For example an asteroid rich in nickel can be found in mines in Sudbury Ontario Canada.) The Earth had to contain all the necessary ingredients to support all life forms these elements were necessary for creating life forms on the planet Earth.

The Spirits decided to create man on the planet Earth who would have similar abilities to those of the Spirits. But the difference in this world would be the existence of Free Will. Man had to be created from ingredients taken from the Earth, which binds him permanently to the Earth. When the Spirits created man they chose him to be the custodian responsible for the Earth.

Man (physical body) had to live on the Earth and would never be able to leave the planet Earth, his permanent home. When the Spirits created man on the planet he has to live in isolation from the rest of intelligent life in space. At the same time the Spirits had to be sure that man would never interfere with others intelligent life in space. Man was also given the power to think and create, man has the power and ability to change anything he wants on the planet Earth.

After the Earth collision with asteroids life on the planet was totally different from the dinosaur’s time as the climate had changed and every living thing had to be redesigned. The second creation was completely different from the first creation as the animals were not bulky as they were in the first creation. Every life that was created on the planet is interconnected as each and every creature depends on one another. Every single creature was important as the creations of each individual Spirit were intended to work in harmony. The balance in nature existed within this physical world and was formed over a long period of time.

Similarly we find that man has grown in his knowledge, inventing the first radio, television and computer. Man first created the tubes, which were then replaced with the transistors, which are used today in computer chips. The first computer was so large and slow that one computer occupied an entire floor of a large building. Yet those mammoth machines were the foundation for today’s modern computer. These electronic devises (tubes, transistors and chips) did they evolve or did man create them?
A single drop was separated from each Spirit, including the Free Will Spirits, and added to every human being. This became his or her soul. The soul observes and experiences every thought, desire, difficulty, pleasure and pain in the human body. All of these observations are then collected and then sent back to the Spirit father, who receives the experiences of the soul. The Spirits in the last 10,000 years have made many improvements on Earth as is evident in history, when humans first started to develop self-awareness. A soul was added to the humans as part of this very important experiment to allow future children of the Light Spirits or the Free Will Spirits to express their own Free Will on earth. Learning opportunity about good or evil was given to all souls, allowing everyone the chance to express themselves as they wished.
Man is blinded by his own arrogance in his belief that he is the most intelligent life form in all creation. Man should be reminded of his genetic roots and that he is only smarter than animals.
Scientists know that DNA share similarities in all life forms on Earth. Even a cabbage has about 40% of human genes. The Spirits used genetic material by adding or removing DNA to make every life form unique. The Creators just added only 2% different DNA to a primate and modern man was created to be responsible custodian on the planet Earth.. http://thelastmessenger.com

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0110100110-March-2007, 10:44 PM
The Spirits created a unique Solar system

This is a discussion forum for space and astronomy science.

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Fisherman11-March-2007, 06:38 AM
This is a discussion forum for space and astronomy science.

I believe question was “human’s origin.”
The answer is human are made from Earthly ingredients.
The second question should be for what purpose humans was created.

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3rdvogon11-March-2007, 11:28 AM
Interesting points. However, when we humans choose a mate, we generally do not make the choice based on what characteristics we wish to pass to our offspring. We make the choice based on what appeals to us personally and emotionally. We also do not take multiple generations and apply the same selection criteria to successive generations of a population (which is what tends to happen in selective breeding programmes).

Yes that has certainly been true for nearly all of human history. Of course earlier in the 20th century the idea that we should take some active decisions about which humans should breed and with whom. H G Wells and others supported this idea and of course it was becoming increasingly accepted by many thinkers in the 1920s an 1930s. It was only in the aftermath of what happened later in Germany that the whole scheme became largely discredited.

Of course today we view the idea of selectively breeding humans in order to improve them as a very crude solution. It is largely assumed that in future we will improve ourselves artificially down at the design level.

However that said I often wonder if earlier societies may have practised similar exercises. So many human societies in the past have tried to "keep women firmly in their place". Was this just simple selfish posession enshrined into law or was it a deliberate policy to control access to females and how they would breed.

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0110100111-March-2007, 10:25 PM
The Spirits created a unique Solar system
This is a discussion forum for space and astronomy science.

I believe question was “human’s origin.”
The answer is human are made from Earthly ingredients.
The second question should be for what purpose humans was created.

You've totally lost me.

Are "spirits" something other than supernatural beings in your usage? What do you mean?

Do you have any scientific evidence for the existence of these spirits that "created a unique solar system"?

Science, please.

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Fisherman11-March-2007, 11:40 PM
You've totally lost me.

Are "spirits" something other than supernatural beings in your usage? What do you mean?

Do you have any scientific evidence for the existence of these spirits that "created a unique solar system"?

Science, please.

Example;
When I decide to buy a car I will ask questions?
1) The maker of a car?
2) Quality of a car?
3) And why I need a car?
I believe we should ask the same questions about human’s origin, the world is too perfect to believe, “Evolution everything is made by themselves” and created universe, galaxies and humans without any plan and purpose, I do not believe in this kind theory. In my own life I have to plan even before commence any kind work and for what kind purpose will be, so ET’s or the Spirits also have to plan and have a purpose of their creations. (Science believes existence of an intelligent life exist in universe and calls it Extraterrestrials (ET) the same intelligent life spiritual people call it Spirits.)

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0110100112-March-2007, 12:05 AM
(Science believes existence of an intelligent life exist in universe and calls it Extraterrestrials (ET) the same intelligent life spiritual people call it Spirits.)

So when you say "The Spirits", are you referring to supernatural spirits? If so, please take your supernatural explanations elsewhere. The BAUT Forum is about astronomy and space science. This is not the place to push religious explanations.

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Fisherman12-March-2007, 02:48 AM
So when you say "The Spirits", are you referring to supernatural spirits? If so, please take your supernatural explanations elsewhere. The BAUT Forum is about astronomy and space science. This is not the place to push religious explanations.


You are wrong I do not refer to supernatural the spirits. Probably you believe that ET’s exist, the same intelligent life I call them the Spirits. How you call bread in English I will call the same bread in Italian but is always meant the same thing. I do not have problem what you believe, why you have problem what I believe. Why people have to fight and pushing own idea upon other people it is wrong. I like to be myself as I am and I do not follow anyone. If you like to share your ideas it’s OK if I can learn something I will be grateful.

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0110100112-March-2007, 04:05 AM
You are wrong I do not refer to supernatural the spirits. Probably you believe that ET’s exist, the same intelligent life I call them the Spirits. How you call bread in English I will call the same bread in Italian but is always meant the same thing. I do not have problem what you believe, why you have problem what I believe. Why people have to fight and pushing own idea upon other people it is wrong. I like to be myself as I am and I do not follow anyone. If you like to share your ideas it’s OK if I can learn something I will be grateful.

I'm asking you a question. You referred to "spirits". When you did, did you mean supernatural beings? Or did you mean extraterrestrial beings? I don't care about what you believe. I care about what you mean -- so that we can have a conversation without using words that mean different things to different people. Give me a straight answer, please.

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Van Rijn12-March-2007, 04:57 AM
I believe question was “human’s origin.”
The answer is human are made from Earthly ingredients.
The second question should be for what purpose humans was created.

In a discussion of science, the question should be: What is the scientific evidence that humans were created?

If you are also going to suggest an agency for that creation, then you would be expected to show the scientific evidence for that agency.

I'll note that the web page you linked to used the word "god" five places in four paragraphs. This certainly doesn't sound like a scientific argument.

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Van Rijn12-March-2007, 05:11 AM
You are wrong I do not refer to supernatural the spirits. Probably you believe that ET’s exist, the same intelligent life I call them the Spirits. How you call bread in English I will call the same bread in Italian but is always meant the same thing. I do not have problem what you believe, why you have problem what I believe.


I don't have a problem with what you do or don't believe. The issue is that, as I noted in another thread and 01101001 noted here, this is a board for discussions of science, not belief. Your arguments, however, appear to be based on belief, not science.

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Fisherman12-March-2007, 11:29 PM
I don't have a problem with what you do or don't believe. The issue is that, as I noted in another thread and 01101001 noted here, this is a board for discussions of science, not belief. Your arguments, however, appear to be based on belief, not science.

Science can’t write the truth in stone, because science is constantly in search to make better, and better the world, today’ the truth and tomorrow will be different the truth. I approach untraditional way to explains creation and use my own words and I do not repeat words of great minds. Science one day will recognize my visions and it is only way to solve mystery of the universe. My writings were in simple words yet you are not able to understand, because you still live and use principle from Darwinians time I think you should wake up and we will welcome you to 21st century.

View Full Version : Human Origin (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:fiTlHKvq7XkJ:www.bautforum.com/archive/index.php/t-23717.html+bautforum+I+remember+my+high+school+ast ronomy+teacher+that+every+single+of+Hydrogen+goes+ back+to+the+big+bang+Your+theacher&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=nl)

[edit]

" If you believe in his device, INVEST YOUR MONEY IN IT ..."- Kaptain K16
On >
Anti-Gravity / Alternate propulsion system
BOUT :cool:



:D

[edit]

to add > A-dityam = Sun in Sanskrit >see the ...'cos - Savior is comming > (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?messageid=394889&mpage=1&showdate=6/4/07&forum=1)

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0307/ET14-8222.html

Hebrews And Vedic Brahmins

BY DR. SAMAR ABBAS, ALIGARH, INDIA

EDITORIAL, Jul 14 (VNN) — A Review

[Editor's note: some special characters do not properly display in web browsers]

In 1979 ....


1. VOCABULARY

One of Shukla's strong points is the considerable vocabulary shared by Hebrew and Sanskrit. Indeed, M.M.Shukla has concentrated on providing a large list of of words which are common to Hebrew and Sanskrit. Thus, he provides the following examples:

"The word, 'Sva?' means 'heaven' or 'paradise' in Sanskrit. This word, written as 'svam' may assume the form, 'Sam-yim' which means, 'sky' and/or 'heaven' in Hebrew, while it may become 'Asvah' under the influence of the principle of vowelization. Sometimes, the sound 'a' may change to 'ya' and thus, the derivation, 'Asvah' or 'Asuah' may change to 'Yasuah' which is nearer to a Hebrew word, 'Yasuah' (= salvation).... It may be mentioned that 'Appa' is a Marathi word. The derivation 'Appa' may further change to 'Abba' (p=b), which is a Hebrew word... Now let us consider the root-word 'Svas'. It may change first to 'Vas' and thence to Bas or 'Bes' which is a Hebrew word though with different meaning, ie. 'daughter'." (Shukla 1979, p.45)

He also suggests that Surios gave rise to Kurios, or Kur (ibid., p.48) Shukla notes that 'Abru' and 'Uparohita' exist in Persian and Avadhi Hindi, distinct from Skt. bhru and purohita (Shukla 1979, p.44)

Describing the process of vowelization, he notes, "the Punjabis would pronounce the words station, putra and K???a as satation, puttar, and Kishan respectively." (Shukla 1976, p.41)

Building upon this, he writes, "the word Joasava may be transformed into Joasaph, from which the derivation of the word Joseph is a simple matter. Thus we can see that the Biblical name Joseph can be derived from an ancient Indian name, jayasva." (Shukla 1976, p.42)

Continuing in this line, he notes, "Adam. This word seems to have been derived from the Sanskrit word A-dityam, from the Vedic pronunciation of this word as A-ditiam." (Shukla 1976, p.45)

In addition, "The meaning of the root-word as in Sanskrit is 'to eat', and 'to enjoy' or 'to be merry'. Hence if we pronounce the term upasana as 'upasana', then it would mean, 'Eating before God', and 'Being merry before God.'" (Shukla 1976, p.46)

Another striking similarity exists with regard to script: "Now, the Hebrew script, like those of Arabic and Kaithi, does not use the word signs to indicate the pronunciation of its consonants." (Shukla 1976, p.44).

.
.
His papers provide detailed etymologies of the word 'Abraham':

"The word 'Adam' can also be derived from Sanskrit 'Adityam' with the help of the rule of haplology also. Haplology is the name given by Bloomfield to the phenomenon where of the two similar syllables following each other, one is dropped. The word 'Adityam' will change to 'Adam' under the influence of this rule in the following way: -

Adityam -> Adatam -> Adadam (t = d) = Adam (Haplology)

It would be interesting to note here that the Sanskrit 'Adityam', represented by the same rule would change to 'Aton':

Adityan -> Aditan -> Atadan (d=t) -> Atan ->: Aten /Aton (Shukla 1979, p.48) This is interesting, for it provides an Indo-European derivation for the Egyptian God Aton.

Moreover, "the Vayu Purana mentions Manu as Bharata" (Shukla 1979, p.56)

Intriguing is Shukla's derivation of Rcam: "We may consider another Sanskrit word, 'Rcam' which may become Arcam and then 'Aleichem' (r=l) which is a Hebrew word." (Shukla 1979, p.46)

Shukla also provides certain other etymologies, and repeatedly derives Adam from Adityam, and Mary from Matr (Shukla 1979, p.46) He also postulates a derivation of Gr. Adonis from Aton, and notes that Heb Adonay = Lord. (ibid., p.48).

"It can be shown that the Hebrew word, 'Elohim' can be derived from the Skt. 'Brahma':

Brahma -> Ibrahim (rule of vowelization) -> Ibrahim (rule of stress) -> Ilohim (r=l) -> Elohim

Hence the expression 'Adonay Elohim; becomes equivalent to the Skt. 'Aditya-Brahma'." (Shukla 1979, p.48)

Furthermore, he notes, "Savit? = Savitru (? -> ru) -> Sabiru (v=b) = Habitru (s=h)" -> Habiru = Habiru = PR Egyptian, Apiru, Ibru, Ibri, Ibrin." (Shukla 1979, p.51)

Another etymology is: (Shukla 1979, p.53)

Iksaku -> Issvahu (no k) -> Issahu (va -> a) -> Ishak, Isaac.
Iksaku -> Ika-rus
A-leichem
& Laicha
http://laika.012webpages.com/celestia/image/laika_mockup.gif
http://www.solstation.com/stars/sirius.jpg
Sirius 2 (http://www.solstation.com/stars/sirius2.htm)

[edit]

Understanding a Familiar Da Vinci Work: Vitruvian[/COLOR]Man[/COLOR][/COLOR] (http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesTitle/productCd-0764578375.html)http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Skylab2-Patch.png
Vitruvian Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Vitruvian.jpg/360px-Vitruvian.jpg
Stock
Photo of Time and space science and evolution of man concept
Clock human body and the world
Photo By: Jodie Coston
http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/PHE1851.jpg

[edit]

crystalinks-quotationslab (http://www.crystalinks.com/ezine.html) Wisdom begins in wonder.http://www.crystalinks.com/earthblman.jpg
~ [COLOR="deepskyblue"] Socrates [Σωκράτης][/CENTER]

[edit]

Now....I am done.

Everybody, have a nice day~

;)

[edit]

Oh, &..I almost forgot this, btw >

A glimpse of your future
www & godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?messageid=395292&mpage=1&showdate=6/4/07&forum=1)

Anonymous Coward User ID: 246559
6/4/2007 7:52 AM Re: A glimpse of your future

utter hogwash...
...dont believe them. a better world is coming....

;)

[synergy777]

edit cool posts bro, some far out stuff. remember to use caution, test the accuracy of the sources, test them by the fruits. i will will be cutting down the forum stuff now, have a busy month coming up. see you guys soon. also edit, if you don't mind me asking are you a bloke/chick, oriental etc, everyone gets confused to who you really are, international man/woman of mystery. nowadays with trolls/agents you have to be careful to who you talk to etc. your posts are the most enigmatic, profound, surreal posts, totally artistic, creative, i wish i had that point of view. they are however, honestly, above my head most of the time, i actually am in awe of the majority of your posts, truly top quality. keep it up, also keep searching for the one, lol i see you posting on many forums etc.

1 love, peace.

that avatar reminds me of the fifth element. which is a great film.

[synergy777]

fifth element - Google Search

The Fifth Element - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Fifth Element (1997) is a science fantasy, action, comedy, techno thriller film, written and directed by Luc Besson, starring Bruce Willis, Gary Oldman, Milla Jovovich, Ian Holm, and Chris Tucker. The production design for the film was developed by French comics creators Jean Giraud (Moebius) and Jean-Claude Mézières and shows a strong influence of French comic storytelling and aesthetic style. The costume design was created by French fashion designer Jean-Paul Gaultier, who produced 954 costumes for use in the film.

The film's central plot involves the survival of humanity, which becomes the duty of a taxicab driver named Korben Dallas (Willis) when an extraterrestrial young woman named Leeloo (Jovovich) falls into his taxicab. She is the Fifth Element, whose appearance was prophesied by the Father Vito Cornelius (Holm). Korben's mission is to gather the other four elements before a black planet that represents pure evil collides with Earth. Mangalors, slow-witted warrior aliens led by corporate tyrant Jean-Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg (Oldman), are obsessed with thwarting Korben's efforts.

Although written and performed in the English language and set in a futuristic New York City, the film was a British/French co-production. Most of the principal photography was filmed at Pinewood Studios in England, while some scenes were shot on location in Mauritania. The concert scenes were filmed at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, except for the special effect shots that show the Planet Fhloston though the ship's portholes. The Fifth Element was shot in Super 35 mm film format; many scenes contain visual effects, and nearly all of visual effects scenes are hard-matted.

[edit]

Thank you, Synergy777
...and ...Yes!
<---SEE ..I've changed it now, from this AV --->
http://www.mi7.co.jp/2007contest/img/mi7_contest_title.jpg

Physorg-News, Published: June 06, 2007

On-Chip Optics Makes Continuous Visible Light from Low-Power Infrared (http://www.physorg.com/news100355022.html)

If you shine a red laser pointer through a glass window you wouldn't expect it to come out blue on the other side, but with a much brighter beam it just might. At high intensities light energy tends to combine and redistribute, so that red light really can produce blue.
Gravitational Potential Energy and Reciprocity (http://www.mathwright.com/librarya/cenergy/cenergy2.htm)
Exploration: Gravitational potential wells

The potential energy function that we use in the model is already entered:
http://www.mathwright.com/librarya/cenergy/cenergy2_files/image009.gif
When you come to this page, you have a birds eye view, looking straight down on the x-y plane so that you see the projection (or "shadow") of the satellite, with the blue Earth at the center.
http://www.mathwright.com/librarya/cenergy/cenergy2_files/image011.jpg
You may change the energy function later, if you like, to any differentiable function of x and y.
12
http://wallpapers.dpics.org/wallpapers/12/My_House_-_My_Blue_Planet_Earth.jpg
__ My House - My Blue Planet Earth (http://wallpapers.dpics.org/12__My_House_-_My_Blue_Planet_Earth.htm)
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/875612/2/istockphoto_875612_blue_earth_two.jpg
blue_earth_two

[synergy777]

bump

[synergy777]

according to the great jewish historian flavius josephus, jews are from india

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08522a.htm

Flavius Josephus
Jewish historian, born A.D. 37, at Jerusalem; died about 101. He belonged to a distinguished priestly family, whose paternal ancestors he himself traces back five generations; his mother's family claimed descent from the Machabeans. He received a good education, and association with distinguished scholars developed his intellectual gifts, more especially his memory and power of judgment. He also made himself fully acquainted with and tried the leading politico-religious Jewish parties of his age -- the Essenes, Pharisees, and Sadducees.

Impressed by the outward importance of the Pharisees and hoping to secure through them a position of influence, he attached himself to their party at the age of nineteen, although he shared neither their religious nor political views. He went to Rome in the year 64 with the object of procuring from Nero the release of some imprisoned Jewish priests, who were friends of his. He succeeded in winning the favour of Poppæa Sabina, the emperor's consort, and through her influence gained his cause. But he was dazzled by the brilliant court life in the metropolis of the world, that he became ever more estranged from the spirit of strict Judaism, considering its struggle against paganism as useless. After his return to Jerusalem, the great Jewish revolt broke out in the year 66. Like most of the aristocratic Jews, Josephus at first discountenanced the rebellion of his countrymen, goaded into activity by their enslaved condition and outraged religious sentiments; when, however, fortune seemed to favour the insurgents, Josephus like the rest of the priestly nobility joined them, and was chosen by the Sanhedrin at Jerusalem to be commander-in-chief in Galilee. As such he established in every city throughout the country a council of judges, the members of which were recruited from those who shared his political views. He guided the diplomatic negotiations as well as the military enterprises with prudence and astuteness. In the beginning the Jews were successful, but later when the Roman General Vespasian advanced with the main army from Antioch to Galilee, burning and murdering, the insurgents either fled or sought shelter in their fortresses. For six weeks Josephus and the boldest spirits among the insurgents defended themselves in the almost impregnable fortress of Jotapata. In the summer of 67, the garrison being now exhausted from lack of water and other necessaries, the Romans stormed the citadel; most of the patriots were put to the sword, but Josephus escaped the massacre by hiding in an inaccessible cistern, and emerged only after receiving an assurance that his life would be spared. Brought before the victorious general, he sought with great shrewness to ingratiate himself with Vespasian, foretelling his elevation, as well as that of his son Titus, to the imperial dignity. Vespasian, however, kept him as a prisoner, and it was only in the year 69, after he had actually become emperor, that he restored to Josephus his liberty.

As a freedman of Vespasian, Josephus assumed in accordance with the Roman custom the former's family name of Flavianus. He accompanied the emperor as far as Egypt, when the latter had handled over to his son the prosecution of the Jewish War, but then joined the retinue of Titus, and was an eyewitness of the destruction of the Holy City and her Temple. At his personal risk he had tried to persuade the Jews to surrender. After the fall of the city he went to Rome with Titus, and took part in the latter's triumph. But these scenes did not trouble Josphus's sense of national honour; on the contrary, he accepted the privilege of Roman citizenship in recognition of his services, and was granted a yearly stipend and also lands in Judea. The succeeding emperors, Titus and his cruel brother Domitian, also showed themselves kindly disposed towards Josephus, and conferred on him many marks of distinction. At court he was allowed to devote himself unmolested to his literary work until his death, which occurred in the reign of Trajan (probably in 101). In his life, as in his writings, he pursued a policy midway between Jewish and pagan culture, for which he was accused by his Jewish countrymen of being unprincipled and hypocritical. His works were written in elegant Greek, to influence the educated class of his time, and free them from various prejudices against Judaism.

The first work of Josephus was the "Jewish War" (Peri tou Ioudaikou polemou) in seven books. This is mainly based on his memoranda made during the war of independence (66-73), on the memoirs of Vespasian, and on letters of King Agrippa. While his story of warlike events is reliable, the account of his own doings is strongly tinctured with foolish self-adulation. This work furnishes the historical background for numerous historical romances, among those of modern times "Lucius Flavius" by J. Spillmann, S.J., and "The End of Juda" by Anton de Waal.

Josephus's second work, the "Jewish Antiquities" (Ioudaike Archaiologia), contains in twenty books the whole history of the Jews from the Creation to the outbreak of the revolt in A.D. 66. Books I-XI are based on the text of the Septuagint, though at times he also repeats traditional explanations current among the Jews in later times. He also quotes numerous passages from Greek authors whose writings are now lost. On the other hand he made allowance for the tastes of his Gentile contemporaries by arbitrary omissions as well as by the free embellishment of certain scenes. Books XII-XX, in which he speaks of the times preceding the coming of Christ and the foundation of Christianity, are our only sources for many historical events. In these the value of the statements is enhanced by the insertion of dates which are otherwise wanting, and by the citation of authentic documents which confirm and supplement the Biblical narrative. The story of Herod the Great is contained in books XV-XVII. Book XVIII contains in chapter iii the celebrated passage in which mention is made of the Redeemer in the following words:


About this time lived Jesus, a man full of wisdom, if indeed one may call Him a man. For He was the doer of incredible things, and the teacher of such as gladly received the truth. He thus attracted to Himself many Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ. On the accusation of the leading men of our people, Pilate condemned Him to death upon the cross; nevertheless those who had previously loved Him still remained faithful to Him. For on the third day He again appeared to them living, just as, in addition to a thousand other marvellous things, prophets sent by God had foretold. And to the present day the race of those who call themselves Christians after Him has not ceased.
Attempts have been made to refute the objections brought against this passage both for internal and external reasons, but the difficulty has not been definitively settled. The passage seems to suffer from repeated interpolations. The fact that the "Antiquities" testifies to the truth of Divine Revelation among the Jews as among the Christians, and confirms the historical facts related in the Bible by the incontrovertible testimony of pagan authors, renders this work of Josephus of extreme value for the history of the chosen people. The accounts which he gives of the rise and mutual relations of the different Jewish sects, which are so important in the history and sufferings of the Saviour; his information regarding the corruption of the ancient Jewish customs and institutions; his statement concerning the internal conflicts of the Jews, and lastly his account of the last war with the Romans, which put an end to the national independence of the Jews, are of prime importance as historical sources.

In his "Autobiography" (phlaouiou Iosepou bios), written A.D. 90, Josephus seeks, not without attempts at self-glorification, to justify his position at the beginning of the Jewish rising. In plan and language the book is probably influenced by the writings of Nicholas of Damascus, which Josephus had also used in the "Antiquities". His work entitled "Against Apion" (Kata Apionos), divided in two books, is a defence of the great antiquity of the Jews and a refutation of the charges which had been brought against them by the grammarian Apion of Alexandria on the occasion of an embassy to the Emperor Caligula.

The early Christians were zealous readers of Josephus's "History of the Jews", and the Fathers of the Church, such as Jerome and Ambrose, as well as the early ecclesiastical historians like Eusebius, are fond of quoting him in their works. St. Chrysostom calls him a useful expounder of the historical books of the Old Testament. The works of Josephus were translated into Latin at an early date. After the art of printing had been discovered, they were circulated in all languages. The first German translation was edited by the Strasburg Reformer Kaspar Hedio, in 1531, and a French translation was issued by Burgoing in Lyons in 1558. Among the best-known translations in English is that by Whiston (London, 1737), revised by Shilleto (5 vols., London, 1888-9). In the middle of the nineteenth century the interest in the "Jewish Antiquities" was revived by a translation which the Society of St. Charles Borromeo induced Professor Konrad Martin, afterwards Bishop of Paderborn, to undertake in collaboration with Franz Kaulen (1st ed., Cologne, 1852-3; 2nd and 3rd ed. by Kaulen, 1883 and 1892). The test of Josephus's works has been published by Dindorf in Greek and Latin (2 vols., Paris, 1845-47) and Bekker (6 vols., Leipzig, 1855-6). There are critical editions by Naber, (Leipzig, 1888-96) and Niese (7 vols., Berlin, 1887-95; text only, 6 vols., Berlin, 1888-95).

NEW: Get the full contents of New Advent
(Catholic Encyclopedia, Church Fathers,
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Publication information
Written by Karl Hoeber. Transcribed by Stephen W. Shackelford. In Memory of my father, Carl W. Shackelford
The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VIII. Published 1910. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, October 1, 1910. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York

Bibliography
Consult SCHÜRER in Realencycl. für prot. Theol., s. v.; MÜLLER, Christus bei Flavius Josephus; EDERSHEIM in Dict. Christ. Biog., s.v. For fuller bibliography see SCHÜRER, Gesch. des jud. Volkes im Zeitalter Jesu Christi, I (3rd ed., Leipzig, 1901), 98-106.

[eternal_spirit]

The Hindu Brahmins are the top of the caste ( class) system, a priestly caste who believe they are better than all the other lower castes, and it's their divine right to have more of everything while the lower castes are treated worse than animals.

I wouldn't trust them. Christianity comes from Judaism which some say in turn developed from Hinduism, which is possibly the oldest historically recorded religon.

[synergy777]

its a wrong interpretation of the vedas. now it a common trend throughout humanity, for the learned people eg clergy to hold the true secrets of life, information is power. all areas from religion, science, meditation, magic, history etc all are kept by the clergy/esoteric cults. now this class wants to hold onto power, and today they are highest power. so how do you hold onto it. change the facts, eg introduce false doctrines that support your cause/aim eg caste/class/colour system, where man is honoured due to his birth/bloodline and not his actions/spirit.

so what you get is racial purity/bloodline, eg levite priesthood, priesthoods of egypt, americas, the vatican. a monopoly on power, monarchies/empires come and go, the clergy always remain. after all if kings are gods on earth/divine right of kings/bluebloods, who tells them this, who supports them ? the clergy.

[synergy777]

http://irishoriginsofcivilization.com/appendices/appendix8.html

STAR

A very important term in the ancient world. The word, and the symbol of the star, was used as a title to distinguish high level adepts and initiates of "Judaic" cults and sects. The Queen of Sheba, for instance, meant "Queen of the Star." The so-called "Star of David," is really the star of the Hyksos Dynasty of kings in Egypt, that history knows as the Israelites

hyskos are indians. it called the shatkona, shiva/shakti united, like yin/yang.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefshexagram.htm

hexagram is a six pointed star composed of two overlapped triangles, found in use by a number of faiths and cultures. Outside of the cross and the swastika, the hexagram is one of the oldest and most universal spiritual symbols.

It is associated with the Biblical Solomon, known as the Star of David in the Jewish religion.

The Seal of Solomon

In Ritual Magick, the hexagon is called the Seal of Solomon, and represents Divine Union, being composed of a female, watery triangle, and a male, fiery triangle. The traditional elemental triangles of earth, air, water, and fire are derived from the seal.

When the points of a hexagram are connected, a hexagon is formed. Kabbalistically, the hexagram represents the Sefirah Tifaret, perfection.

Hindu Shatkona

In the Hindu religion, the hexagram is called the Shatkona, and is equivalent to the symbolism in ritual magick. The Shatkona is the combination of the Shiva kona (trikona, triangle), the symbol of the God Shiva, representing the element of fire, and the Shakti kona, representing the element of water. Together, they represent the union of male and female, and the heart chakra.


http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsmagen.htm

Star of David (Magen David, Shield of David)

The Star of David is the primary modern emblem of the Jewish religion. How it came to be such is a matter of some debate. Legend has it that the emblem was used by the Biblical King David (hence the name 'Magen David,' or shield of David).

In reality, it was not associated specifically with the faith until the middle ages, when it began to appear on flags, tombstones, and synagogue decorations. It is probably not coincidental that the symbol was important to the flourishing kabbalistic tradition of the same time period. Kabbalistically, the hexagram symbolizes the six directions of space, the divine union of male and female energy, and the four elements.

The Star of David is also important in the Rastafarian and Messianic Christian religions. A Rastafarian version

http://log24.com/blog/0305.html

The Eightfold Way and Solomon's Seal

Introduction to Yantra

by Horia Cristescu and
Dan Bozaru

The Triangle (TRIKONA)

The triangle (TRIKONA) is the symbol of SHAKTI , the feminine energy or aspect of Creation. The triangle pointing down represents the YONI , the feminine sexual organ and the symbol of the supreme source of the Universe, and when the triangle is pointing upwards it signifies intense spiritual aspiration, the sublimation of one's nature into the most subtle planes and the element of fire (AGNI TATTVA). The fire is always oriented upwards, thus the correlation with the upward triangle - SHIVA KONA. On the other hand, the downward pointing triangle signifies the element of water which always tends to flown and occupy the lowest possible position. This triangle is known as SHAKTI KONA.

The intersection of two geometric forms (lines, triangles, circles, etc.) represents forces that are even more intense than those generated by the simple forms. Such an interpenetration indicates a high level in the dynamic interaction of the correspondent energies. The empty spaces generated by such combinations are described as very efficient operational fields of the forces emanating from the central point of the YANTRA. That is why we can very often encounter representations of MANTRAS in such spaces. YANTRA and MANTRA are complementary aspects of SHIVA and their use together is much more efficient than the use of one alone.


The Six Points Star (SHATKONA)

A typical combination often found in the graphical structure of a YANTRA is the superposition of two triangles, one pointing upwards and the other downwards, forming a star with six points (SHATKONA), also known as David's Star. This form symbolically represents the union of PURUSHA and PRAKRITI or SHIVA-SHAKTI, without which there could be no Creation.

TRIKONA

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1164/030525trikonalj1.jpg


SHATKONA

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3427/030525shatkonasr3.jpg


http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/apion-1.htm

flavius josephus contra apinon chapter 1 verse 22:16

these Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/JOSEPHUS.HTM

The Works of Flavius Josephus

Translated by William Whiston

[synergy777]

http://www.fisiusa.org/fisi_News_items/Sharon_2003/sharon_000.htm

Title: Yehudi-Hindu Bhai Bhai (Jews and Hindus are Brothers)
Author: Ranbir Singh(UK)
Publication: Sword of Truth
Date: Sept 3, 2003

URL: http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/readersvoice/yhbb.html

"Besides all this, the servants of Huram and Solomon, who had brought gold from Ophir, brought also cargoes of algum wood and precious stones . . . The like of them had never before been seen in the land of Judah. . . . The king had a fleet of ships plying to Tarshish with Hurram's men; once every three years this fleet of merchantmen came home, bringing gold and silver, ivory, apes, and monkeys." (2 Chronicles 8,9, New English Bible, The Bible Societies, 1970, pp.324-5)

The above Passage from the Old Testemant refers to 'Ophir'. This mysterious land has been identified by some scholars as Bharat itself. The Solomon in the above extract was King of Israel, of the Jews. Like the Hindus, Jews are an ancient people, and with the above passage, the relations between the two are very old indeed. The far-sighted observer might then bemoan how this has not been utilised to the mutual benefit of both.

New geo-political alliances form in the post Cold War world as one enters the new millennium. It has taken over 50 years for the Indian government to realise who its true allies are, as it gains a raj which is reflective of its majority community, in harmony with its indigenous traditions, and lack the rootlessness so common of Congress raj. In 1947, the battle of Kurukshetra was truly lost when the Kaurava Congressiya of Nehru and Indira Khan, Rajiv Khan reduced the sacred Punyabhoomi to further oblivion. Nehru's Panchsheel made Bharat an unwanted prostitute to the imperialistic designs of Communist China; entirely fitting to Jawaharal's own family background but not to Bharat. Indira and Rajiv Khan mafia crawled like rats to the USSR. Their seduction by Islam was no less, not entirely surprising as they flitted from one totalitarian ideology to another. It was against this political backdrop that they alienated what could have been Bharat's most supportive ally, Israel.

Indeed the parallel struggles for self-determination by the Jews and Hindus has been largely ignored. The domination of India' institutions and organs of education by a motley collection of Marxists, Islamists, Macaulites, pseudo-Dalits, and Christians has led not only to Hinduphobic indoctrination of anyone who aspired to be intellectual or just plain informed, but a streak of anti-Semitism in a land where it had no place.

Anti-Semitism and its sister hate of anti-Zionism has become part of India's pseudo-secular and Hinduphobic political mainstream. The pre-BJP raj tried hard to show its solidarity with the Islamic and Communist nations by a strong anti-Israel stance, in the name of anti-colonialism and Third World solidarity. Had the philosophy which manifested itself during the early days of Hindu and Indian nationalism (as readers will know the two are harmonised, Gandhism now consigned to the dung heap) triumphed this would not have been so.

Veer Savarkar, ideologue of Hindutva, saw the Jews as allies in a common struggle. In his famous Hindutva of 1923, he wrote:

"if the Zionists' dreams were realised, if Palestine became a Jewish State, it would gladden us almost as much as our Jewish friends."

Savarkar had been pro-Zionist since 1908 and remained so as Bharat's betrayers went in the opposite direction. In 1952, Savarkar looked to the Jews an example for the Hindu to emulate if they wished to be a modern nation:

"Even a tiny state like Israel has sensibly started developing fish field and sand fruits and because of that they are able to meet the needs of the countless immigrants who would have otherwise half-starved. The Jews are a brave and intelligent people. And although their State looks like a child before our great state of Bharat we must emulate its example."

In the post-1947 years Savarker denounced Comrade Nehru's refusal to recognise Israel, saying quite frankly that he feared that it would invite the very Muslim opposition which he was so eager to please. In February 1956 at the annual session of the Hindu Mahasabha in Jodhpur, he was clear that this was a suicidal course:

". . . if tomorrow there breaks out a war between Pakistan and Bharat almost all Muslims will be arrayed on the side of Pakistan in opposition to us and their enemy Israel will be our only friend. Therefore I say that Bharat should give unequivocal recognition to Israel. If we desire to safeguard the independence of Bharat we should be militarily strong."

But the fascination with Islam and Communism held by the Congress raj would never allow for such practical thinking. Indeed in the name of anti-colonialism, anti-Israel sentiment became an article of faith, supporting the PLO terrorists an act of proof of this desire to shake off the colonial shackles. Yet how did this Non-Aligned Movement benefit Bharat? Until the BJP victory India remained a nation ridiculed by others as weak, the easy punching bag of others' frustrations. Hindus the world over, self-alienated, eager to please others at how stupid and backward they regarded their cultural roots. Anti-Semitism meanwhile seeped into India's political structure. Islam from the outset has been anti-Semitic, as the Prophet's own genocide of Jewish tribes of Arabia attests. That is why Anwar Shaikh is keen to point out that such an example of extreme nationalism was not witnessed so early elsewhere. With the pro-Islamic stance of Hinduphobic groups claiming to speak for Dalits, such as that led by Rajashekhar, anti-Semitism and belief in a global Jewish plot were parcel of the ideological baggage (this has been reviewed by Koenraad Elst in Indigenous Indians from Voice of India).

The Communist influence on India's institutions was also a factor, and not just in the anti-Isreali stance. Marx, though born Jewish, was ashamed of his Jewish origins: like many latter day Hindu pseudo-intellectuals of JNU who also shout about how they are just Hindus by birth, accident, or some other unnatural freak. This factor and because many Jews joined the Communist movements in Europe and North America, as well the self-righteous stance taken by Reds in opposing Fascism, has given the opinion that Communists were anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic per se. Yet a deeper investigation would reveal that many Jewish Communist leaders in USSR were liquidated by Stalin, Trotsky being the most notorious case. The 'liberation' of Nazi Europe by Communists in 1945 brought no respite from anti-Semitism. Keen to play friends to Arab nations, who remained Islamic to the core however lax such as Syria, Egypt, Libya and Algeria, and incensed at Israel's pro-Western stance, the Warsaw Pact nations fuelled hatred of Jews under the guise of anti-Zionism. Eastern Europe was also the heir to virulent anti-Jewish hatred which remained under anti-Zionism, and almost erupted into a mass pogrom in USSR in 1953 had it not been for Stalin's death (the infamous Doctor's Plot). Communism, being born in reaction to Christian dogma, nevertheless imported its erstwhile foe's (and mother's) sinister baggage, with anti-Semitism against Jewish capitalism, Israeli imperialism, rootless Cosmopolitanism (Judaism), and Zionist world domination.

Yet Bharat's indigenous philosophy was not suppressed, which is why anti-Semitism never could gain mass acceptance. Web site articles by Sudheer Birodkar (http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/sudheer_history/judaism.htm) will attest to the fact that in a 2000 year presence in Bharat, Jews never suffered anti-Semitism at Hindu hands. Such intolerance was an anathema to the Hindu mind. In 1981, RSS Sarsanghachalak, Balasaheb Deoras made this clear when discussing the once large Jewish community of Kerela:

"In a book published by the Israeli Consulate in Bombay . . . it says that the Jews were ill-treated and subjected to all sorts of humiliations all over the world, the only example being Bharat and that during their long sojourn in Bharat, there was not even one single instance of their persecution."

The Jews left India to help build the fledgling state of Israel, not because of persecution. Israel showed a marked contrast to India in its dealings with hostile neighbours. Attacked on its very inception by the Arabs in 1948, it routed them. While in 1965 and 1971 Bharat sought peace with Pakistan following two wars instigated by the latter, Israel not only defeated the Arabs in 1967 and 1973, but also annexed territory for itself. In a very short space of time, Jewish pioneers transformed a land of desert into the most prosperous and advanced nation in the Middle East. It is the only viable democracy in that region, with a diverse society in stark contrast to the dull, monotonous, corrupt and totalitarian regimes of its Islamic neighbours.

The Jews and Hindus have been victims of the dogmatic totalitarianism which has stalked the earth for two millennia. Born from Judaism, Christianity nevertheless was opposed to it, as the Jews remained steadfast to their ancient beliefs. The conversion of the Roman Empire was a negative factor for the Jews as the now state sponsored Church began the anti-Semitism which became an integral part of its belief whilst stealing many Jewish cultural aspects. It was this hatred which could not be suppressed by the Reformation in the 1500s which led to Protestantism, the Enlightenment in the 1700s which had rationalism, nor by the emergence of Communism in the 19th century. Fascism and Nazism as the most extreme forms of nationalism naturally saw Jews as an unwanted alien presence in a secularised religion in which race and nation were the pseudo-spiritual pillars. The modern Christian rejection of overt anti-Semitism does not his the fact that it is a monstrous being of its own creation. Pastor Martin Niemoller, imprisoned by Hiler for opposing the persecution of Jews, as in many ways an exception. The Roman Catholic Church, especially in Croatia and Poland was an eager participant in Nazi atrocities. This was revived following the collapse of Communism in 1989, most evidently with Pamyat in Russia which inherits its Judeophobia from the Russian Orthodox Church itself.

The advent of Islam brought no respite for the Jews. Indeed it made things worse. Ibn Warraq (Why I am Not a Muslim, 1995) as well as Anwar Shaikh have exploded the myth of Islamic tolerance. Christianity after all was the heir to an earlier age of humanism and rationalism found in Greek philosophy. It had a possibility of reforming itself. Though often credited with laying the foundations of modern democratic traditions, Christianity did the opoosite. Western democracy is the heir of pre-Christian 'pagan' ideas, the philosophy of ancient Greece, the glory of Hellas. It was Western Fascism and Communism which were ejected from the loins of Christianity.

Abba Eban, a great authority on Jewish history and one who has yielded immense service to Israel, nevertheless continues with the myth of Jewish prosperity under Islam. Even a scholar such as Robert Wistricht (AntiSemitism, The Longest hatred, 1991), who by no means ignores Islamic Judeophobia, tries to explain it away. Bat Y'eor is one of the few who does not. Islamic history is not as clear and reliable as one would be led to believe. The Quran is full of contradictions, grammatical errors, even non-Arabic words. To rely on the Hadith is no better as contradictory accounts occur of the same event. But if one relies upon the Islamic traditions then it is clear that Islam was anti-Semitic form the outset. Muhammad's massacre of Medina's Jews could in no way set an example for Islamic tolerance. The Prophet stole Jewish ideas, and claimed them as his own, mixing them with aspects of Arab 'paganism', and pure unabashed egotism. It is amazing how this has gone unnoticed and how one is brainwashed into the myth of Islamic tolerance, as opposed to Israeli aggression. The Quran, Hadith and numerous fatwas since all show that Islamic ideology is replete with anti-Semitic manure of the vilest type.

But the Jews did not just come to Israel from the west. They were not just the idealistic pioneers from USA, the survivors of the death camps such as Treblinka, nor the victims of the sickening 1946 pogrom in Poland. Many came from Arab lands, the Sephardi Jews, where they had suffered relentless persecution. It was the coming of the French to the Maghrib and British to Egypt which gave greater political rights to these Jewish minorities, even though these nations were by no means innocent: France had its own Dreyfus Affair of 1897, endemic anti-Jewish paramiltary outfits in the 1930s, Vichy pro-Nazi collaboration, and more recently the largest post-war Fascist party; Britain's more polite society confined overt anti-Semitism to Mosley's Blackshirts and the qualgmire of the post-1945 far right. The rise of anti-French nationalism in Algeria also had anti-Semitic overtones. By 1962, most Jews had been driven from Algeria. Nasser, Egypt's strongman and apparent leader against Western colonialism, imperialism and racism, expelled all Jews from Egypt. Israel had all Yemeni Jews evacuated. Saudi Arabia to this day refuses entry to Jews. Pogroms, distinctive clothing (preceding the Star of David worn by Jews in Nazi Europe), degradation, were as much of the lives of Jews in dar'ul Islam as they were in Christian Europe. Unlike in Europe, there was no Reformation, no Enlightenment, no parallel to the French Revolution. So there was no Emancipation.

In short Jews suffered anti-Semitism in Islamic lands which was not due to any importations from the west such as that which led to the rise of modern Arab nationalism. No doubt that helped but the elements were already in existence. In no Islamic country were Jews accorded respect. When Israel was formed, they saw the opportunity of liberation and left. Some had already chosen the path of exit. Prominent UK commercial success stories of Sassoon and Saatchi, are in fact of Iraqi Jewish origin. The opposition to Israel by Arab and Muslim nations must be understood in this context. The only exception is Turkey, and that because Islam was uprooted by Ataturk in 1924. If it was merely a local issue, then why would Pakistan, Malaysia, Bangladesh, and Indonesia all be so concerned to bray Judeophobia like an ass. Pakistan and Bangladesh may wish to court Arab petrodollar, but Malaysia and Indonesia have had comparative prosperity. It is due to Islam. It is Islam which has led to the anti-Israeli sentiment of these nations, and the statement in 1998 by Mahathir Mohamed of Malaysia that the East Asian economic crisis was due to the Jews.

Therefore the crisis facing Israel must be seen in the ideological context. The problem is not Arabs or even Muslims, but Islamic ideology. Before Islam, Jews had found shelter with the Arabs. They had prospered in Medina and elsewhere. In an earlier article, Koenraad Elst had reviewed David Duke's chapter on India in his 1999 My Awakeining. Duke devotes a large part of his book on Jewish arrogance, racism, and domination of the media. He puts the blame of anti-Semitsm on the Jews themselves, for their chauvanism towards host populations. Yet this cannot explain why they lived peacefully for 2000 years in Bharat. The roots of anti-Semitism lie not with the Jews but the dogmatic ideologies which have twisted and stolen ideas from their victims: Christianty, Islam, Communism, Nazism. Even in Ethiopia, one of the earliest victims to be swallowed by Christian dogma, the Falashas (Ethiopian Jews) could not escape the shadow of persecution. The scenario of Arabia is perhaps the best example. In the pre-Islam period, Arabia, as explained by Aditi Chaturvedi, was a Hindu rashtra, which was why the Jews enjoyed the same tolerance their co-religionists in India. This changed with Muhammad. There was no evident change in Jewish thinking or habits, nor a mass change in the Arab genotype (just to please Duke, who seems obsessed with genotype, a more sophisticated word for race he utilises, in his aspirations to be taken seriously as an intellectual, and perhaps one day as a normal human being). The only quantifiable metamorphosis was ideological, that of Islamic ideology, which introduced anti-Semitism to the formerly civilised an tolerant Arabs. Israel has failed to take this into account. It has seen the opposition in a purely political context. This explains why it has fallen for the trap of trying to make peace with its Islamic neighbours in the hope that it will not be a pariah.

One can thus express surprise since the Jews have learnt much from their history and turned their misfortune into something positive. Yet this is due to the west's own fascination with Islam, as a parallel civilisation, another wonder of human creation. Jewish groups such as JDL (Jewish Defence League, www.jdl.org ) and Kach, who take their ideology from the late Rabbi Kahane, are condemned as extremist or even Nazi. One would hope that Israel would learn from its treatment at the hands of Islam as well as the west. A new nexus of Islamists and Nazis is forming, not content with what Hitler had committed. Ahmed Rami's site of Radio Islam has long been the centre of anti-Semitic propaganda, linked to the sites of white Nazis who would if true to their ideology expel or even gas this Arab 'wog'. Yet the Nazi-Islamic alliance is nothing new. Jinnah himself said that India's Muslims should act like Sudenten Germans, who were trying in the 1930s to secede from Czechoslovakia. Many ex-Nazis such as Remer found sanctuary in the Middle East. The Mufti of Jerusalem was openly supportive of Hilter. Arabic translation s of Hitler's Mein Kampf have remained popular in the Middle East, even distributed to soldiers on the eve of the 1967 Six Day War, by 'socialist' Egypt. It was that country's later president, the dark-complexioned Anwar Sadat who had been an admirer of Hitler (one wonders if Sadat ever heard of Hitler's reaction to Jesse Owen's victory in the 1936 Olympics) Saudi Arabia's King Faisal funded Holocaust denial 'research', and encouraged the UK to expel its Jews. In Kuwait and Saudi the two worst things that one can import are pictures of scantily clad women (they have to wait until they reach the Islamic heaven before enjoying those sort of sights) and an atlas with Israel on it (which is promptly scrubbed off the map). In UK Islamic groups Hizb-ut Tahrir and Omar Bakri's new outfit, Al Muhajiroun have wreaked anti-Jewish (and anti-Hindu) violence on college campuses, causing the National Union of Students to establish Campuswatch against such hate groups. So it is not surprising when one finds David Duke featured on Radio Islam's self- righteous 'anti-racist' and anti-Zionist website: (http://www.radioislam.net/duke/index.htm)

Hindus should thus recognise that Israel can be one of its few reliable allies. From Israel Bharat has much to learn. Instead of peace treaties it should have followed the Jewish state'' example in annexing the lands of the aggressor. Pakistan is eager for war again. This time it will be different if Hindus follow the Israeli example. The jawans should carry the saffron into Lahore, which is the natural capital of East Punjab and the city of Lav. How could Lahore become a city of Islam any more than Jerusalem? These are just two of the examples of Islam's theft of the cultural icons of others. If Pakistanis want to be Arabs they should be sent forth to their imaginary homeland where they can do the jobs the Arab sheikhs have reserved for them: mercenaries, prostitutes, menial workers, nannies, attendants wiping the faeces from the expensive porcelain toilets of the sheikhs. Islamic fascists see Bharat as the soft spot to propagate their irrational creed and foment violence. India tries to placate them. Israel expels them, This is what Bharat should do. If they hate Hindu Rashtra so much they are free to leave for dar'ul Islam.

Bharat can also learn in the economic sphere. Israel was pioneered via its kibbutzim system, which transformed desert into lush agricultural land. The opportunity is there for closer collaboration in both economic and political spheres. Israeli expertise can contribute into alleviating some of Bharat's obstacles to becoming an advanced nation. Military expertise will show how one survives, thrives, and even turns the tables on its aggressors. They also retain the memory of their Holocaust. We Hindus do not, to our eternal shame, even though it continues unabated in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, and Assam.

From Bharat Israel can also envisage what would happen should it fall victim to complacency. It can ill afford to have an Islamic monster in the form of a Palestinian state on its borders. It can also ill afford to have its most sacred shrine usurped by Islam. Just as Babri Masjid hijacked the site of Rama Janmabhoomi, the al-Aqsa, Dome of the Rock, sits like a parasite on the Temple Mount. In Israel as in Bharat, Islam has hijacked 'pagan' shrines for its own purpose, its own imperialist stamp of victory on the sub-human 'kaffirs' Jewish as well as Hindu shrines have been victims of this Islamic colonialism.

Worse than the Iron Curtain of the Cold War, an Iron Purdah has descended from Kashmir to Karchi in the east, from Senegal to Sudan in the south, and advances elsewhere. Bharat and Israel are holding back this Purdah and Green Menace, but have thus far made inefficient use of their resources. The Jews and Hindus are two ancient nations, survivals from a more enlightened era which we are hopefully once again entering as the new millennium dawns, and dogmatic ideologies are shelved by intelligent people. They have faced common enemies, being victims of the aforementioned dogmas: the religious dogma of Christianity, the colonialist Orwellianism of Islam, the pseudo-rationalism of Marxism, and the racial fundamentalism of Nazism. Presently they face two challenges. One is from a resurgent Nazism, presented by figures such as David Duke (www.duke.org) in North America, and Le Pen and Haider in Europe. Yet the most pressing danger is Islam, which aims at the conversion or physical liquidation of Jews and Hindus, and with that Israel and Bharat.

The arrival of a Hindu led government in Bharat should be an advent in rejecting earlier myopic political actions. If any people are the true brothers of the Hindus, it is the Jews. If any nation is the true ally of Bharat it is Israel. Let all Jews and Hindus who have the vision for the new millennium work closer together to achieve the liberation of their respective peoples from the shackles of anti-human dogmas.

Israel is Yehudi Rashtra, as Bharat is Hindu Rashtra.

Refrences:

2 Chronicles 8,9, New English Bible, The Bible Societies, 1970, pp.324-5
Dhanajay Keer, Veer Savarkar, Popular Prakashan Private Ltd, 1988, Bombay, p.467.
Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, RSS: A Force for Social Change, Jagarana Prakashana Kempegowda Nagar, 1981, Bangalore, pp.7-8

[synergy777]

http://searchwarp.com/swa113711.htm

The Common Origin of Arabs and Jews - Part One

Burton H. Wolfe

Burton H. Wolfe's interview with Professor George E. Mendenhall

Professor George E. Mendenhall, Chairman Emeritus of the Department of Near East Studies at the University of Michigan, is one of the foremost authorities on biblical lore and the people of the Mediterranean region. Unwilling to be just an office academician, between 1950 and 1993 Professor Mendenhall participated in numerous archaeological expeditions in Jordan, Syria, Turkey, Lebanon, Saudia Arabia, and Yemen. His ability to understand many languages - including Arabic, Hebrew, Greek, Egyptian, and a variety of ancient semitic languages - has enabled him to produce distinguished works incorporating original sources, such as Law and Covenant in Israel and the Ancient Near East (1955, Biblical Colloquium); The Tenth Generation: The Origins of the Biblical Tradition (1973, Johns Hopkins); Ancient Israel's Faith and History (2002, Westminster, John Knox); and Our Misunderstood Bible (BookSurge).

In 1943 Professor Mendenhall was an ordained minister serving as pastor at the Trinity Lutheran Church in Laramie, Wyoming, when he decided to change careers because, as he explained to me: "I was enraged at the treatment of Japanese Americans and found myself in disagreement with the church members." His first step was to enlist in the U.S. Navy, which sent him to its Japanese language school at the University of Colorado. Commissioned as an ensign, from there Mendenhall was shipped to the Southwest Pacific where he served as an inelligence officer assigned to transmit information to units of the Seventh Fleet.

After World War II ended Professor Mendenhall resumed studies at Johns Hopkins University, earning a Ph.D with a thesis on semitic language dialects. Since then he has pursued his combined career in education, writing, and archaeology.

What follows is part one of a two-part interview.

Wolfe: Why is the department at the University of Michigan called the Department of Near East Studies rather than the Department of Middle East or Mideast studies?

Mendenhall: When the Department of Near Eastern Studies was formed, it was the only term in use.

W: Various encyclopedias and dictionaries distinguish between the Near East and Middle East. What, in your view, is the proper way to distinguish between the two regions? By geographically identified boundaries, nations, or what? M: They are now the same thing.

W: How did the term "Middle East" become substituted for "Near East"?

M: The term "Middle East" is a part of the flotsam garbage that washed up after the wreckage of the British Empire. When India became independent the Brits abolished the Near East section of the Foreign Office and assigned its function to the Middle East section.

W: Which nations should be identified as comprising the present Near East?

M: Anything between Eastern Europe and Western boundary of India.

W: Having identified the region we are talking about, let us turn to some basic, historical information about the inhabitants of the region. There have been identifications of the inhabitants of the region as "semitic people," an identification that both you and I have disparaged. If you were forced to provide a meaning for the term, what would it be?

M: I don't know of any term in use. About the only thing I can think of would be "Near Easterners."

W: The terms "anti-Semite" and "anti-semitic," as applied exclusively to persons and attitudes antagonistic to Jews, are therefore unjustifiable misnomers, are they not?

M: Worse. They are linguistic atrocities. Actually, they have no valid meaning at all.

W: Some scholars, and encyclopedias, identify the term "semitic" as a word coined by the Eighteenth-Century German philologist and philosopher A. L. Schloezel, who used it only for the purpose of designating a group of related languages. Do you agree?

M: I certainly do. The term should be used only to refer to a large group of related languages.

W: In any event, were the people referred to united in some way at some time in the past?

M: Let's put it this way: they had a common origin or common complex of origins. The old idea that semitic languages came from an original primitive semitic has been abandoned by most scholars. There was a diversity from the beginning. Anyway, the semitic languages are related by a number of common elements.

W: Let us turn, then, to the separate identifications of the semitic-speaking people of the Near East that eventually produced the terms "Arabs" and "Jews," starting with the latter. As I understand it,the people who became known as Jews were first identified as Israelites. Correct?

M: No, they were not called Israelites. The only conceivable way to identify them is as a society called ancient Israel. They identified themselves in most cases as members of a particular village, clan, or family; and very rarely did they even identify themselves as members of one of the original twelve tribes of Israel. As for Israel, that was the name of a large, comprehensive community that constituted "the people of God." This community was formed most probably in the Twelfth Century B.C.

W: So, it was strictly on a religious basis that they were formed into Israel?

M: Absolutely. They did not even speak the same dialect of the semitic languages. The only conceivable basis for the unity of the group was their common allegiance to a single common deity.

W: What was their name for that deity, and how was he differentiated from other all-powerful gods such as Ahura Mazda of the Zoroastrians?

M: The name was almost certainly pronounced as Yahweh. This is an Amorite verb meaning "He causes to become." This verb actually occurs in Amorite personal names in the Bronze Age, such as "Yahwi-Dagan."

W: So that the reader or viewer can follow this from the perspective of time, what era are we talking about?

M: The Iron Age between 1200 and 1000 B.C.

W: Now, in addition to the formative religious aspect of the society in the Near East called ancient Israel, is it not true that the members of that society were engaged in a rebellion against the Canaanite priests as part of a desire to live democratically rather than under the rule of those priests?

M: Not against the priests so much as the kings. At the time of Moses in the early Twelfth Century a large number of the kings, we know from their personal names, were recent newcomers to the area, largely from the region of modern Turkey. Some had Amorite names, many had Hittite names; the king of Jerusalem two centuries before the time of Moses had a Hurrian name, and some of them are even Indic names closely related to Sanskrit - so that these newcomers who became kings of this Syro-Palestinian region had established themselves as power structures superimposed on the existing population. And most of the population did not have any great allegiance to those power structures. We have two examples before the time of Moses in which local people, usually kings, were trying to unify the population so that they could throw off the yoke of foreign conquerors.

W: What we have there, then, is a general picture of people who were formed together in a number of tribes, or maybe a federation of tribes, called Israel, on the basis of religious belief, with the addition of political rebellion?

M: Yes, on the basis of a covenant of loyalty to the common deity, not to a common king. In other words, they transferred political loyalty to a deity to which they turned for the functions of protection from enemies from outside, protections from criminals inside, and protection of the prosperity of the community. These were the traditional functions of the king in the ancient world. Thus the functions of war, law, and prosperity were assigned to their god. Thus, "Holy War." Since the community consisted almost entirely of village farmers and shepherds, prosperity depended upon rainfall, obviously not controlled by any king.

W: That takes us by your estimate to somewhere between Twelve Hundred and Eleven-fifty B.C. Do you have any idea when and how these people came to be called Hebrews?

M: Oh, yes. I would say from their beginning. Although there is a lot of controversy about it, and some scholars vehemently reject it, the term "Hebrew" is simply the Iron Age form of what in an earlier time was called 'apiru, literally "one who crosses the boundary line." I would say it is the exact semantic equivalent of the modern term "transgressor." The 'apiru were persons who had rejected all allegiance to the existing political structures and consequently were not entitled to the protection of any of the political structures. In other words, they were rebels.

W: The term 'apiru is transmuted by some scholars into habiru.

M: That's the way it was rendered in the cuneiform writing system.

W: That's because when it's 'apiru with a symbol in front of it, you have a "hah" sound, right?

M: Well, originally it's an 'ayin, as it is in Hebrew. Most of our sources about the 'apiru are in the Akkadian language, and the Akkadians didn't have that sound, so they transliterated it with a "hah" sign.

W: You told me in some of our correspondence that you don't think the theory of habiru as the original Hebrews is going to get anywhere, and yet now you seem to be saying it was the origin.

M: They were called that by their enemies. Nobody ever called himself an 'apiru so far as I know. We know that the Philistines asked of David's group, "who are these 'apiru," or "who are these Hebrews"?

W: What it comes down to, then, is that the name "Hebrew" is a linguistic term more than anything else.

M: Of course. As an appellative or a pejorative, it is a term that was used quite widely; in fact, we can trace the term back almost a thousand years before the time of Moses.

W: But dictionaries define Hebrews as the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That is untenable, is it not? There was never any such entity as a purebred ethnic stock of people that you could identify as Hebrews, was there?

M: No. As I mentioned before, we know that they didn't even speak the same dialect of ancient Hebrew.

W: So, you could not say the term 'apiru or habiru became related to Hebrews in the sense of either being identified as a distinct ethnic group, could you?

M: No. The term "Hebrew" was used widely over most of the civilized Near East for centuries before the time of Moses. Consequently, when this group of people had accepted the kingship of God, then these petty political power structures which were fighting each other for power and domination said all these 'apiru, Hebrews, are rebels against us who are the legitimate power structure in the area. So, they [these rebels] did away with thirty-one different kings. You can read that in the Old Testament books of Joshua and Judges. So, that's what made them 'apiru and then Hebrews. W: Okay, I wanted you to expound on this subject because there are so many people who think of Hebrews or Jews as a race that has continued from biblical times. But actually they were a mixture, as were all semitic language speakers. Right?

M: Yes. For the population of the eastern Mediterranean, and particularly we have evidence from the northeastern part, there were about one-third semitic speaking, one-third Hurrian speaking [people from east central Turkey], and one-third Indo-European. That was the population of the eastern Mediterranean in the Late Bronze and early Iron Ages.

W: All right, We've gone from a group or federation of tribes called Israel to Hebrews, and I know you have an idea of how and why Hebrews eventually came to be called Jews.

M: "Jews" simply comes from the tribe of Judah. When there was a separation of the empires of David and Solomon, the northern tribes seceded and called themselves "Israel," almost certainly because there was an original tribe in that area before the time of Moses which called themselves "Israel," and the tribe is referred to by that name in ancient Egyptian sources. I think most scholars would agree with that now. So, the term "Israel" is the name of the larger federation, which went from Dan to Beersheba. I think what happened then was they took the name of a major subsection in the central hill country called "Israel." Anthropologists have observed that this process is quite frequently the case: tribal forms of organization are very unstable, so that when a new tribe is formed, it usually takes the name of an existing dominant subsection. So, when the northern tribes seceded from the empire [of David], they took the name "Israel," while what was left of the southern tribes they called "Judah." It was the called "the House of Judah" from that time on; and from then on the northerners were considered to be heretics.

W: If we're getting accurate translations in the English-language Bible, then the scribes who wrote the Old Testament scriptures were reluctant to use an equivalent in their languages of the term "Jews." You have to go all the way to Nehemiah, if I remember correctly, before you find the term "Jews" as transliterated and then translated into English. Before that the identification is either "children of Israel" or "Israelites" and then in a few places "Hebrews" starting with "Abram the Hebrew."

M: That's right. You have a continuation of people from Jerusalem and environs who had already regarded the northerners as illegitimate heretics. The descendants of the tribe of Judah regarded themselves as Jews, Yehudi.

W: Now, by whatever name their major common language was Aramaic, was it not?

M: Oh, no, only much later - after the Persian Empire. Till then their language was Phoenician. Hebrew and Phoenician are the same language, basically. There's been a controversy going on for many years about the extent to which Hebrew was still used and spoken during the time of the Roman Empire, and we just don't know. It seems, however, that increasingly Hebrew or its descendant, Biblical Hebrew, became the language of learning. The language of the common people was Aramaic, and this was true all over the Roman Empire. Even in Egypt the written language was Aramaic. It was the lingua franca of the time. But I maintain that in the Iron Age what we call Biblical Hebrew was pretty much the lingua franca of the entire Mediterranean world, with examples as far west as Sardinia.

To be continued.

[synergy777]

http://personalpages.tds.net/~theseeker/Abraham.htm

Abraham of India

Abram/Abraham/Brahma/Avram/Abu-Ramu/Ibrahim Zeradust (@ 2000 - 1800 BCE). One of the most central figures of Judaism and Islam and also revered to some extent among Christians.

Abraham is believed to have lived around 2000 BCE, and died at the age of 175 years according to the Bible as well as Muslim sources. There are no independent sources confirming this abnormally long lifespan. While there is no form of historical or archaeological evidence for his personal existence, there is sufficient evidence that the peoples and regions we learn about existed during this time of history.

Abraham is of great importance to Judaism because he is the Patriarch of the Jews, through the line of his ‘legitimate’ son, Isaac, Father of Jacob who later became “Israel”.

Abraham is important to the Muslims because he is a prophet of the same message from God as Mohammed and the Father of ‘Ishmael’, his elder ‘illegitimate’ son for whom God also made a promise. In essence Abraham is believed to be the Patriarch of the Muslim’s through his son Ishmael. As God promised, Ishmael became the father of 12 princes (Gen 25:12-17), as well as a daughter, Mahalath, who later married Essau, son of Isaac (Gen 28:6-9). Ishmael was the father of the ISHMAELITES, a nomadic peoples that lived in northern Arabia. Modern-day Arabs claim descent from Ishmael. Ishmael died at the age of 137 (Gen 25:12-17).

The following is our interpretation of the life of Abraham; this has not been done arbitrarily or with malice or the intent to deceive. It has been done through critical and comparative scholastic analysis.

As well as can be traced historically we believe the following to be the facts about Abraham, our search leads us to India.

The Bharatas

The Mahabharata, meaning “Great India” was written down @ 540 to 300 BC, but has a much older oral history, it has been attributed to the sage Vyasa. They record “the legends of the Bharatas, one of the Aryan tribal groups.”

To understand the significance of this one must understand that Bharata was not a nation. Bharata was a collection of nations. India is the modern name of the land once called by its indigenous peoples Bharata - not in the context of a nation or country but as a collection of independent semi-cooperative individual nations just as Europe is a collection of nations.

Consider the word Bharata. This word is formed from the Sanskrit root ‘Bhara’, which under the sway of the rule of vowelization, may assume the form ‘Ibhar’, ‘Iber’, ‘Ibhray’, ‘Ibhri’, ‘Ibri’, ‘Ibrini’ etc. Words which all have been equated with the term Hebrew.

Further discussion of the term ‘Hebrew’: Another meaning of the term Savitr (the Sanskrit form of the term Hebrew) is Brahmana. Now let us consider the word ‘Brahmana’. If the suffix ‘mana’ is removed from this word, then it becomes ‘Brah’. Through time and usage this would give us the word, ‘Habra’ which is nearer to the word ‘Hebrew’. Also that, both these words, written without vowel signs, would give ‘BRH’ and ‘HBR’ respectively. The similarity is evident.

It is of interest to note another Sanskrit word, ‘Vipra’ (a synonym of ‘Brahmana’) in the same connection. The word ‘Vipra’ becomes ‘Ipar’ in colloquial Marathi. Now consider the word ‘Ipar’. This word may assume the forms ‘Iber, Ibri, Ibhray, Ibrani’ etc, - other forms of the word Hebrew. This leads to the conclusion that the Hebrews can be identified unhesitatingly with these Indian Brahmins who had migrated from India in the very early dawn of the Vedic period.

A strong point for a common Brahmin-Jewish origin is the fact that both communities have been endogamous priests from the earliest times of their recorded history. It may also be observed in this respect that the Hebrews, as well as their Indian counterparts, Brahmins, consider themselves as the “Chosen People of God”. The Hebrews started their career in history as a “Kingdom of Priests” (Exodus/19/6). Likewise, the Brahmins have also been a “Community of Priests” since the dawn of their history.

The cult of Brahm (Hinduism) was carried to the Middle and Near East by several different Indian groups About 1900 BC, after a severe rainfall and earthquake tore Northern India apart, ever changing the courses of the Indus and Saraswathi rivers.

The classical geographer Strabo tells us just how nearly complete the abandonment of Northwestern India was. “Aristobolus says that when he was sent upon a certain mission in India, he saw a country of more than a thousand cities, together with villages, that had been deserted because the Indus had abandoned its proper bed.” (Strabo’s Geography, XV.I.19.)

The drying up of the Saraswathi around 1900 BCE, led to a major relocation of the population centered around and in the Sindhu and the Saraswathi valleys, causing a migration westward from India. It is soon after this time that the Indic element begins to appear all over West Asia, Egypt, and eventually, even Greece.

An Indian historian, Kuttikhat Purushothama Chon, believes that Abraham was driven out of India. He states that the Aryans, unable to defeat the Asuras (The mercantile caste that once ruled in the Indus Valley or Harappans) spent so many years fighting covertly against the Asuras, such as destroying their huge system of irrigation lakes, causing destructive flooding, that Abraham and his kindred just gave up and marched to West Asia. Therefore, besides being driven out of Northern India by floods, the Aryans also forced Indian merchants, artisans, and educated classes to flee to West Asia.

Edward Pococke writes in India in Greece,
“...in no similar instance have events occurred fraught with consequences of such magnitude, as those flowing from the great religious war which, for a long series of years, raged throughout the length and breadth of India. That contest ended by the expulsion of vast bodies of men; many of them skilled in the arts of early civilization, and still greater numbers, warriors by profession. Driven beyond the Himalayan mountains in the north, and to Ceylon, their last stronghold in the south, swept across the Valley of the Indus on the west, this persecuted people carried with them the germs of the European arts and sciences. The mighty human tide that passed the barrier of the Punjab, rolled on towards its destined channel in Europe and in Asia, to fulfill its beneficent office in the moral fertilization of the world. The distance of the migratory movement was so vast, the disguise of names so complete, and Grecian information so calculated to mislead, that nothing short of a total disregard of theoretic principles, and the resolution of independent research, gave the slightest chance of a successful elucidation.”
If all these refugees were exclusively of Indian heritage, why is it that History doesn’t mention them?
The exodus of refugees out of ancient India did not occur all at once but over a period of one or more thousand years.

Indeed they are mentioned as Kassites, Hittites, Syrians, Assyrians, Hurrians, Arameans, Hyksos, Mittanians, Amalekites, Aethiops (Atha-Yop), Phoenicians, Chaldeans, and many others. But we have been wrongly taught to regard them as ethnicities indigenous to Western Asia.

Our history books also call them “Indo-Europeans,” causing us to wonder where they were really from.

Many Christian and Jewish religious scholars (mostly of the ‘Eurocentric’ persuasion) don’t want it to be true that ten to thirty million “Indians” once lived in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and as far west as half-way across modern day Iran and the Eastern borders of modern day Saudi Arabia. They claim it’s a mere “coincidence” that so many place names and tribes there have biblical names.

Still other scholars insist that it was the Moslems who christened all those tribes and places.

The truth, however, as history now reflects, is that many of those tribes and places had already received their so-called “Biblical names” centuries or even millennia before Islam was a gleam in Mohammed’s eyes and many centuries before those same names started showing up in the Middle East.

Our history books also call them “Indo-Europeans,” causing us to wonder where they were really from. The people of India came to realize their social identity in terms of societal functions or caste not in terms of races and tribes.

The following is a small sampling of some startling examples:

Minoa (Ancient Greek nation). Meena (An Ancient Indian tribe)

Turbazu (Palestinian clan) Turvazu (An Ancient Indian tribe)

Kopt; Guptas (Ancient Egyptian dynasty) Gupta (Ancient Indian ruling dynasty)

Saracens (Ancient Turks) Sauresena (A territory & people of Ancient India)

Arabea (Arabs) Arabi (Original inhabitants of Makran, now part of Pakistan)

Mecca (Islam’s most sacred city.) Makka (Capital of Makran)

Islam (Mohammedan religion) Ishalayam (Temple of God)

Khurus (The tribe of Mohammed) Kurus (An Ancient Indian tribe)

Cabul (Town in Israel) Kabul (Capital of Afghanistan)

Jidda (Saudi Arabian city) Juddha, Yuddha (Warrior)

Bashan (Region of Jordan) Bazana; Vashana (Ancient capital of Gujarat)

Manesseh (Territory and tribe of Israel) Manasa (Himalayan lake, near Mount Meru)

Laish (City of Canaan) Laish (Town in Afghanistan)

Cutha (City in ancient S. Mesopotamia) Kuth; Cathia; Cutch (Part of Gujarat)

Yemen (Arab country) Yamuna (River of India)

Dubai (Nation of Arab Emirate) Dwab (Territory of ancient Afghanistan)

Sheba (Ancient Ethiopian kingdom) Siva; Sibi(Territory of ancient Yaudheyapura, India)

Syria (Home of the ancient Jews) Suriya (Mythical Indian territory)

Succoth (Place near Jordan and in Egypt) Sukhothai (Ancient Indian and Thai kingdom)

Talmud (Written Jewish teachings) Tal-Mudra (Sacred teachings written on palm leaves)

Kippot (Skullcap worn by Orthodox Jews) Kaparda (Hair top-knot)

Yehudi (Jewish People) Yutiya; Yah-Khuda (Name of an Indian tribe)

Since the proto-Semitic Tribes (the Yehudi) left the Dwarka region, the original Sanskrit that they spoke has undergone considerable changes of pronunciation and an admixture of words, so what was Sanskrit 5,742 years ago is now Hebrew.

The Buddhists say that the Abhiraans spoke “Abhira” (Yet another possible derivative form of Bharata). The Yadavas, a seemingly proto-Hebraic peoples still living in India, also claim to have spoken a language called Abhiri or Sabari. Today, Israeli Jews whose roots sink deep into Israeli soil are called “Sabaras.”

Judaism and Hindu Shaivism (Worship of Shiva) Share the Same Names for God.

Judaism Shaivism

Ish; Yish; Is; Isa; Issa; El; Al; etc. The same in Shaivism (Suffixes & prefixes for “God”)

Yahve; Jahve; Tseeva (God) Shiva; Shaiva; Siva (God)

Elohim; Elokhim (God intellectualized) Lakhimi(Goddess of Prosperity); Lokhi; Lukh(Shiva)

El Shaddai (God of the Mountain) Saday; Sada (Shiva)

Ha-Kadosh (The Holy One) Hakh-e-Kheda (God’s Duty)

El Elyon (Possessor of Heaven and Earth) Il Layun (Absorption in God)

Yesoda (Dual Sexual Nature of Life) Yeshoda (Shiva’s Dual Sexual Nature)

[jerichoforce]

there's our syn
insane sikh chap to the rescue :rolleyes:

[synergy777]

http://personalpages.tds.net/~theseeker/Abraham.htm

table of words at link.

The similarity of these Indian and Hebrew names certainly traumatized European colonists. Unwilling to admit that the Jews had never sprouted spontaneously in the Arabian desert, but were from the East as the bible itself tells us, they merely erased these matters from their minds or convinced themselves that they were “coincidences,” even though the “coincidences” numbered in the thousands and were peppered over every region in India.

Aramaic, a language as similar to Hebrew as Spanish is to Portuguese, originated in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Both Afghanistan and Pakistan were once part of India. Afghanistan seceded from Indian in the 1700s. Pakistan was cut out of India when the two nations were partitioned after World War II. Aramaic also is the source of modern Hebrew’s square alphabet, used in Israel today.

Here’s an example of how the ancient Indians identified people: The leaders were called Khassis (Kassites), Kushi (Kushites), Cossacks (Russian military caste) Caesars (Roman ruling caste), Hattiya (Hittites), Cuthites (a dialectical form of Hittite), Hurrite (another dialectical form of Hittite). The Assyrians (in English), Asirios (in Spanish), Asuras or Ashuras (India), Ashuriya, Asuriya (Sumer and Babylon), Asir (Arabia), Ahura (Persia).

Naturally, in areas where this religion prevailed, they were known as “Assyrians”, no matter what the real names of their respective kingdoms were.

In his History of the Jews, the Jewish scholar and theologian Flavius Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), wrote that the Greek philosopher Aristotle had said: “...These Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calani.”

Clearchus of Soli (a pupil of Aristotle) wrote, “The Jews descend from the philosophers of India. The philosophers are called in India Calanians and in Syria Jews. The name of their capital is very difficult to pronounce. It is called ‘Jerusalem.’”

Megasthenes, a Greek historian from Ionia, was sent by the hellenistic king Seleucus I as an ambassador to the court of King Chandragupta Maurya in India. His report about the culture, history and religion of India was the basis of Western knowledge about India and whose accounts are every day acquiring additional credit from new inquiries, says that the Jews ‘were an Indian tribe or sect called Kalani...’”

The Magi of Persia in some references are said to have called their religion Kesh-î-Ibrahim. They also trace their religious books to Abraham, who was believed to have brought them from heaven.

Arabian historians of the past have also contended that Brahma and Abraham, their ancestor, are the same person. The Persians generally called him Abraham Zeradust. Cyrus considered the religion of the Jews the same as his own Zoroasterianism. “The Hindoos must have come from Abraham, or the Israelites from Brahma...”

Mr. Hyde, in his book Religion of the Ancient Persians, points out how Magianism, as set forth in its sacred books, taught that the human race sprang from a single pair; that it bore testimony to the occurrence of the flood; that it mentions Noah and his sons; that as far as Abraham is concerned, it declares him to have been its own author; and that it makes mention also of Moses. Moreover, it contains predictions respecting the appearance on earth of a Savior, who would ultimately overthrow the kingdom of darkness and make supreme and universal the kingdom of light and of God. It also taught the existence of good and of bad angels, also a resurrection of the dead.

In the sacred book of the ancient Persians and modern Parsees, The Zend Avesta, it is declared that the religion taught in it was received from Abraham; this was believed by leading Arabian writers not only of Persian Magianism but also of Indian Brahmanism.

The claims of Magianism to have been influenced by the revelations made to Abraham are far from being discountenanced by the laws of historical probability. For the war waged so successfully by Abraham in behalf of his kinsman, Lot, against the five kings, among whom was the king of Elam [i.e., Persia], is of itself a sufficient proof that the Father of the Faithful, Abraham, the Hebrew from Ur of the Chaldees, must have been as well known to the eastern kingdoms as Moses was in after times.

It is generally admitted that in the days of Abraham the forefathers of the Persians and Brahmins were one people. That these two cultures are of common descent is urged from the close relationship existing between Sanskrit, the language of the Brahmins, and the Zend or Persian; it is also said that the remarkable identity between the Brahminical and Persian mythologies indicates, unerringly, the original union of the two. It may also be noticed that Hitzig, in his Geschichte dcs Volkes Israel, reasons from the identity of certain practices observed by Abraham and the patriarchs of Israel on the one hand, and by Brahminical Hindus on the other, that a community in common of some kind once existed between these people.

The religion of ancient Persia was derived from that of the ancient Indians, or Aryans. The language of the earliest Zoroastrian writings is close to that of the Indian Vedas, and much of the mythology is recognizably the same. Two groups of gods were worshiped, the ahuras and the daevas.

The Greeks asserted that the Jews were Indians whom the Syrians called Judea, the Sanskrit synonym of which is Yadava or Yaudheya, and the Indians called them Kalanis, meaning orthodox followers of the scriptures.

Abraham

Abraham is understood by some as, “A Brahma” - meaning a Brahmin.

He is understood by others as an “ex-Brahmin”, being a prophet, sect, or a tribe which because of their conflict with orthodox Brahmins became refuges in the west.

This can be clearly proven if one investigates the root meanings of both words. Abraham is said to be one of the oldest Semitic prophets. His name is supposed to be derived from the two Semitic words ‘Ab’ meaning ‘Father’ and ‘Raam/Raham’ meaning ‘of the exalted.’ In the book of Genesis, Abraham simply means ‘Multitude.’

The root of Brahma is ‘Brah’ which means - ‘to grow or multiply in number.’ In addition Lord Brahma, the Creator God of Hinduism is said to be the ‘Father of all Men and Exalted of all the Gods’, for it is from him that all beings were generated. Thus again we come to the meaning ‘Exalted Father.’ This is another clear indicator that Abraham is linked the Hindu deity Brahma.

The Name Abram/Abraham is clearly derived from the Sanskrit word Brahma.

The fact that Abram’s family migrated to Haran from Ur has often been taken by scholars to mean that Ur was Abram’s birthplace, but that is not stated anywhere in the Bible.

On the contrary, the command to Abram to go to Canaan and leave for good his past abodes lists three separate places: his father’s house (which was then in Haran); his land (the city-state of Ur); and his birthplace (which the Bible does not identify).

The etymological evidence, as illustrated above clearly link the words Ibri, Brahmin, Abraham and Hebrew pointing toward India as Abram’s true birthplace or at the very least the land of his fathers.

The name of Brahma was highly respected in India, and his influence spread throughout Persia as far as the lands bathed by the rivers Euphrates and Tigris. The Persians adopted Brahma and made him their own. Later they would say that the God arrived from Bactria, a mountainous region situated midway on the road to India.

Bactria (a region of ancient Afghanistan) was the locality of a proto-Semitic nation called Juhuda or Jaguda, also called Ur-Jaguda. Ur meant “place or town”. Therefore, the Bible was correct in stating that Abraham came from “Ur of the Chaldeans.”

“Chaldean,” more correctly Kaul-Deva (Holy Kauls), was not the name of a specific ethnicity but the title of an ancient Hindu Brahmanical priestly caste who lived in what are now Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Indian state of Kashmir.

Whether Abram’s family was Chaldean (from the Sumerians) or a Kaul-Deva (from Brahmanical priestly caste). His culture and his people worshipped many gods. This was his heritage. The Chaldeans inherited their “Pantheon of Gods” from Sumeria, who inherited them directly from India. The Kaul-Devas, of course brought theirs directly from what was then India, but in either case his family worshipped the same “Gods”.

Voltaire was of the opinion that Abraham descended from some of the numerous Brahman priests who left India to spread their teachings throughout the world; and in support of his thesis he presented the following elements: the similarity of names and the fact that the city of Ur, land of the patriarchs, was near the border of Persia, the road to India, where that Brahman had been born.

Equating the Hindu Brahma and Saraswathi with the Biblical Abraham and Sarai is easily attainable. It must be mentioned in this respect that while Saraswathi is said to be the daughter of Brahma in accordance with the Indian tradition, her Biblical counterpart, Sarai, has been described as the sister of Abraham.

There are many striking similarities between the Hindu god Brahma and his daughter/consort/wife Saraswathi, as compared with the Jewish Abraham and his sister/wife Sarai that seem more than mere coincidences.

Abraham and Sarah (Sarai) can easily refer to the Indian version of Brahma and Saraswathi. This indicates that this is an abridgement of some of the versions in the Indian Puranas, which is an easy jump to make logically as many Indian epics existed long before the Bible was written.

The Bible says that Abraham and Sarai went to the Middle East to escape a terrible flood that had taken place in their original homeland. The Biblical timeframe roughly corresponds to the drying up of the Saraswathi River, which triggered mass migrations of Indians westward.

Joshua 24:2&3 - Joshua said unto all the people, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and they served other Gods. And I took your father Abraham from the other-side of the flood and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed.”

The Persians also claim Ibrahim (Abraham), for their founder, as well as the Jews. Thus we see that according to all ancient history the Persians, the Jews, and the Arabians are descendants of Abraham.

In ancient India, the Aryan cult was called “Brahm-Aryan.” The Aryans worshiped multiple gods. Abraham turned away from polytheism. By so doing, he could have become “A-Brahm” (No longer a Brahman). The Aryans called the Asuras “Ah-Brahm”. Therefore, we can logically assume that the fathers of the Indus civilization were probably proto-Semitics.

Melchizadek –Sage and King of Jerusalem

Melchizedek was a king of Jerusalem who possessed secret mystical and magical powers. He was also Abraham’s teacher.

Melik-Sadaksina was a great Indian prince, magician, and spiritual giant - the son of a Kassite king. In Kashmiri and Sanskrit, Sadak = “a person with magical, supernatural powers.” A certain Zadok (Sadak?) was also a supernaturally endowed priest who anointed Solomon. Why does the Kassite (of royal caste) Melik-Sadaksina, a mythical Indian personage, suddenly appear in Jerusalem as the friend and mentor of Abraham?

According to Akshoy Kumar Mazumdar in The Hindu History, Brahm was the spiritual leader of the Aryans. As an Aryan (Not of Yah), he naturally believed in idols. The Bible says that he even manufactured them. Upon seeing how increasing idol worship and religious guesswork were contributing to the further downfall of his people, Brahm backed away from Aryanism and re-embraced the ancient Indian (Yah) philosophy (Cult of the Material Universe) even though it, too, was foundering in manmade evils. He decided that mankind could save himself only by dealing with what was real - not the imagined.

This is paralleled in a story about Abraham in the Koran when he turned away from his father’s business of manufacturing idols.

Shocked at the barbarism and blind selfishness of the people, the wise men and educated people among the proto-Semitics isolated themselves from the masses. Dr. Mazumdar wrote, “The moral fall was rapid. The seers and sages lived apart from the masses. They seldom married and were mostly given to religious contemplation. The masses, without proper light and leader, soon became vicious in the extreme. Rape, adultery, theft, etc., became quite common. Human nature ran wild. Brahma (Abraham) decided to reform and regenerate the people. He made the chief sages and seers to marry and mix with the people. Most refused to marry, but 30 agreed.” Brahm married his half sister Saraswathi. These sages became known as Prajapatis (progenitors).

There is no doubt that the Yadavas founded ancient Israel. The real name of the Jews, Yahuda, seems to suggest this.

The Jews spell the name of the city of ‘Yerushalayim,’ of which the Sanskrit synonym is Yadu Ishalayam, which means the temple of the Lord of the Yadus (the descendents of Lord Krishna’s clan).

Interestingly enough, the Indian tribe of Ioud (Yadu), was either expelled from or left the Maturea of the kingdom of Oude in India and, settled in Goshen, in Egypt, giving it the name of the place which they had left in India, Maturea.

Ayodhya or Yaudheya would be the Indian equivalent of the word Judea. It is true that the Jerusalemites were known as Yehudiya or Judeans (Warriors of Yah), a fact making the Hebrews Indian origins incontrovertible.

Jerusalem was a Hittite (Indian hereditary leadership caste) city at the time of Abraham’s death. In Genesis 23:4, Abraham asked the Jerusalem Hittites to sell him a burial plot. The Hittites answered, “...thou art a prince among us: in the choice of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee.”

If the Hittites revered Abraham as a prince he must have been a highly regarded member of India’s hereditary ruling, warrior or priestly caste. The Bible never did say that Abraham wasn’t a Hittite. It just said, “I am a stranger and a sojourner with you.” (Genesis 23:4.) As the Hittites said, they recognized Abraham as being even above them.

The Hittites were not a unique ethnicity neither were the Amorites or Amarru. Marruta was the Indian caste name of commoners. The word “Amorite” (Marut) was the first caste name of the Indian Vaishyas: craftsmen, farmers, cattlemen, traders, etc.

In Ancient Geography of Ayodhya, G. D. Pande writes, “Maruts represented the Visah. The Maruts are described as forming troops or masses. Rudra, the father of the Maruts, is the lord of cattle.” In The Civilized Demons, Malita J. Shendge states, “...the Maruts are the people.”

We should therefore not be surprised to find the Khatti (Hittites) and Maruts (Amorites) functioning as the protectors and helpmates or assistants of Jerusalem.

In India, the Hittites were also known as Cedis or Chedis (pronounced Hatti or Khetti). Indian historians classify them as one of the oldest castes of the Yadavas. “The Cedis formed one of the most ancient tribes among the Ksatriyas (the aristocratic class made up of Hittites and Kassites) in early Vedic times. As early as the period of the Rgveda the Cedi kings had acquired great reknown... they are one of the leading powers in northern India in the great epic.” Ram or Rama also belonged to the Yadava clan. If our Abraham, Brahm, and Ram are the one and the same person, Abraham went to Jerusalem to be with his own people!

Ram’s congregations segregated themselves in their own communities, called Ayodhya, which in Sanskrit means “The Unconquerable”. The Sanskrit word for “fighter” is Yuddha or Yudh.

Abraham and his group belonged to the Ayodhya (Yehudiya, Judea) congregation who remained aloof from non-believers and Amalekites (Aryans).

It is extremely naive to assume that for the birth of a nation, and for kingship over all the lands from the border of Egypt and beyond to the border of Mesopotamia (and beyond?), Abram’s God would have chosen a simple shepherd or picked someone at random.

With the above statement in mind a critical review of Abram’s lineage will show that he was most probably a descendent of a line of Royalty or at the very least of a Priestly Caste.

[mahabaratara]

How far have you got with this information 777...?

I havent studied it in depth like you but I can tell you this its obvious some of the elite have Vedic origins...

Indeed the Vedic empire itself may not have actually been based in India...

[synergy777]

me being insane, i thought it vital to look at the testimony of other insane people, i have highlighted their insane names, lol

[synergy777]

before india, its a most probably sunken continent in the pacific/lemuria, the aboriginies/southern indians being the same stock, and then arctic theory aswell. before that panagea, before that, who knows, mars, marduk/tiamat.lol

its a matter of looking at history, language, religion, linguistics etc. also alot of it is intuition. trust yourself.

[mahabaratara]

to be honest I keep coming up with little clues here and there...i mean after almost two years at this I only have nuggets...Ciggy says it could take entire lifetimes...LOL!

*but* I do keep coming across adepts that can raise their kundalinis's and do all sorts of spectacular feats with this...

but at best its only ever brief information...

[synergy777]

it could take lifetimes, but it hink we at this stage/epoch are lucky, we can know it all. if anything its dealing with the huge amounts info, to control the data flow, stopping an overflow.

anyway bro, gotta go, spooks is on bbc3, will back in a hour.

[edit]

I havent studied it in depth like you but I can tell you this its obvious some of the elite have Vedic origins...

Indeed the Vedic empire itself may not have actually been based in India... Karma
Lords of Karma
Members of the Karmic Board: (http://www.ascension-research.org/karma.html)
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Lords of Karma


Great Divine Director

Goddess of Liberty

Ascended Lady Master Nada

Cyclopea, Elohim of the Fifth Ray

Pallas Athena, the Goddess of Truth

Portia, the Goddess of Justice

Kuan Yin, the Goddess of Mercy

Great Divine Director
Sk.Ranga
Ranga-Vishnu
VishnuRanga
http://i.pbase.com/u44/svami/small/28423720.ranganathar.jpg
The Great Divine Director (http://www.ascension-research.org/karma.html)
http://www.ascension-research.org/images/gdd-300.jpg
sri ranga pankajam
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ENERGIZERS
http://www.templenet.com/Tamilnadu/images/df001.jpg
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Ranganathar and ...
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Lord Ranganathar (Vishnu)
http://www.geocities.com/aaditya55/ranga2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/aaditya55/srirangamtitle5.gif

About Srirangam (http://www.geocities.com/aaditya55/srirangam2.html)



About Srirangam and its Legends

The abode of Lord Ranganatha in Srirangam, is as ancient as Ramayana. Ranga means a platform (Arangam) , a beautiful stage. Natha means the Lord. Rangam also means our own Antarangam; inner conscience. Natha is the Lord at our heart. Nam-Perumal ( our God ) is another name of Ranganatha. Srirangam is the only temple in India with seven enclosures (Praakaras).The other place is the heavenly Vaikunta. The Vedas sing the glory of Vaikunta, the God's Kingdom as the one with seven beautiful wide enclosures. Hence Srirangam is hailed as Bhoo-Loka-Vaikunta by all the scriptures and saints. The heavenly Vaikunta stands on the other side of the sacred river Vinaja Nadi. In Srirangam too, similar is the flow of the river Cauveri.

According to a legend, the celebrated, "Srirangam Vimana" with Lord Ranganatha inside, rose out of the "Milky Ocean" at the prayer of the creator. Brahma, who enshrined it in Satyaloka, comissioned the Sun-God to perform the daily worship. Ikshvaku, a scion of the sun-race became priviledged to have it installed in his palace at Ayodhya. His successors continued the worship. His more famous descendant-Sri Rama - ( An Avatara of Lord Vishnu ) gifted it during his coronation to Vibhishana with instructions to worship it constantly. While returning to Sri-Lanka, Vibishana chanced to place it on the bank of the Tank "Chandra Pushkarni" ( situated north in the islet) where it got firmly embedded, a place fit for the Gods - a spot filled with fragrance of different flowers in the thick groves fenced by the bent bamboos ( according to Silapathikaram ). Dharmavarma of the early Chola Dynasty, ruling from Nisulapuri (Woraiyou) who was performing penance then on the banks of "Chandra Pushkarni", saw the glittering Sri Ranga Vimana. He consoled Vibhishna, who left for Sri Lanka. Dharmavarma built a shrine which was grown to the present dimensions and arranged for regular worship.

Moolavar : Sri Ranganathar (also called as Nam Perumal, Periya Perumal, Azaghiya Manavalan) - Adhisesha sayana stance facing south)

Utsavar: Nam Perumal (in standing pose)

Thayar: Sri Ranganayaki (also called as Ranga Nachiyar)

Sacred Waters: Chandra Pushkarini, Cauvery, Kollidam, Vedasrungam

Vimanam: Pranavakrudhi


This temple and the Lord has been sung by all the ten Azhwars (except Madhura Kavi Azhwar) and Andal. It is also believed that Swami Desigan received the following titles "Kavidharkiha Simham" (¸Å¢¾¡÷츢† …¢õ†õ) from Lord Ranganathar and "Sarvathanthraswathanthrar" (…÷žóòà ŠÅ¾óòÃ÷) from Thayar. Swami Desigan sang his famour "Padhuka Sahasram" on this Diety.

I present following points which have historical backings and some based on my observations.

This temple has close connection with Tirumala. During the invasion of Malik Kafur - a tyrant turkish king - the Utsawar was taken to Tirumala where it was installed and all the ordained pujas were performed between 1320 to 1360 AD. The place where this idol was installed in Tirumala temple is known as Ranganayaka Mandapam.

Also, I understand that during the annual Brahmotsawam of Goddess Alarmelmanga (Padmavathy Thayar), the palanquin bearers of Srirangam Lord are invited to offer similar services to Thayar on certain days. (If somebody can elucidate me how or when this practice was evolved , I will be obliged).

The famous Thirupalli Ezhuchi (Kathiravan guna disai sigaram vandhadainthan ... ) is recited at Tirumala during Margazhi month (dhanur maasa) instead of the Venkatesa Suprabatham which is recited during the rest of the year.

My Experience

I have had the privilege of having the darshan of Lord Sri Ranganathar many times (during my official visits to Trichy). Among the darshans I have had, I will rate Viswaroopa Darshan as one of the best. With very little crowd around six in the morning, the serene atmosphere offers a blissful experience. For the benefit of persons who have not had this darshan I narrate the same.

With the temple cow (or her calf) in the front and the temple elephant standing in the rear, the screen is drawn aside while the temple priest offers Karpoora Harathi simultaneously. Along with the sacred cow and the elephant this first Harathi can be witnessed by us as well. After the cow and the elephant are led away, the devotes can step into the inner prakaram to have darshan of the Lord from close quarters.

Ranganayaki Thayar is beauty personified and a look at Her face will wash away everyone's anxieties and sufferings. True to the word, Thayar, this Universal Mother is full of kindness and grant a true devotee every wish he/she desires and forgives one's sins as a normal mother does to her children.

There are so many other Sannidhis in this temple and among them one will find a Sannidhi dedicated to Danvanthri - doctor to the gods - which is not found in any other temple. It is believed that praying to Danvanthri will cure all ills and sickness.

Saint Ramanuja attained Samadhi in this Divya Kshetram. His mortal remains in "sitting and Upadesa Mudhirai posture" are housed in a separate Sannidhi and "a must see one".

There are also other Sannidhis (the priests in charge of these will refer them each as a separate temple) dedicated to Lord Rama, Krishna, a 20 feet Garudazhwar, Sugreeva and Angathan (we cannot see separate sannidhis for these two Vanara Kings in any other temple) etc.

History has recorded that the saint poet, Kamban (Azhwar) offered Kamba Ramayanam from this temple. It is a lovely mandapam and one will be fascinated to see how much space has been provided for the viewers / listeners and the imposing pedestal on which the poet sat during his offering.

¬úÅ¡÷ ¾¢ÕÅʸ§Ç ºÃ½õ


Top (Next) Tiruvenkadam 108 Tirupathis Home
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[edit]

[zeta]http://www.hpa.org.uk/careers/images/pic3.gif[/talk] http://www.zetatalk.com/worlds/w04.htm
excerpt from >>
S’rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam - THE FOURTH BOOK (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:tx6qwYOf-PQJ:www.sacred-texts.com/hin/db/bk04ch21.htm+Green+Devas+karma&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=nl)


18. Vâsudeva said :-- O blessed one! I now tell you what is truth and the matters connected with truth.



19-20. Effort, application and manifestation of energy are certainly the duties of man; but their effects are all under the Great Destiny or Fate.



p. 331



The Pundits knowing the ancient lore say that there are three kinds of Karma mentioned in the Purânas and Âgamas :-- First, the Sanchita Karma (done in past births); the Prârabdha Karma, the Karma already done; and the Vartamân Karma (Karma in hand).



21. The Karma, auspicious and inauspicious, done in many previous lives and preserved in seed forms, remains always inherent in a human soul. Urged on by this Karma, the Jîvas quitting their previous bodies, enjoy Heaven or Hell as effects of these, their own acts.



22-23. According to their good or bad works, the Jîvas acquire the higher happy body and enjoy various pleasures in the Heavens, or they take up very painful vicious bodies and suffer various pains in hell.



24-25. At the expiry of the above period in Heaven or Hell, when there comes the time of his assuming another body, the Jîva becomes conscious of the subtle body (Linga Deha) and takes his birth again. When the Linga Deha comes into existence, the part of the Karma done in various previous births that are ripe and ready to yield their fruits, gets attached to the Jîva by God (or Destiny).



26. Therefore the collective effect of Karma done in previous births always exists in a Jîva’s body. O Fair-eyed One! The effects of Prârabdha Karma, ripened and ready to yield their fruits must have to be experienced by a Jîva, whether happy or unhappy.



27. O beautiful young woman! Penances, performed according to rules, destroy the effect of Karmas that are in hand and are weak (i.e., not yet accumulated strongly as to remain in seed forms).



28. The Prârabdha Karma, those acts out of all the previous acts done in previous births that are fully mature and ready to yield their fruits, cannot be averted; their effects must have to be experienced and then they can die away; they cannot be expiated by penances or any other remedial measures. Therefore you must hand over unconditionally your new born babe unto the hands of Kamsa.



29-30. O Goddess! I have never done any blameable action, nor have I told any lie. Therefore do you fulfill your truth and hand over your baby. O Devakî! Dharma is the only thing permanent and real in this fleeting world. Even the births and deaths of high souled persons are subject to the great Destiny. Therefore the Jîvas ought not to be sorry when there is no help for it.



31. O dear one! What shall I say to you! Know this much that his life is spent in vain who is lost to Truth. O beautiful one! Whose this life is destroyed, what can he expect in the life to come!



p. 332



32. Therefore, O Goddess! Give me your baby and I will hand it over to Kamsa. If we can observe this truth, we will meet with ample rewards afterwards; there is no doubt in it.



33. Where there are pains and pleasures for the Jîvas, there it is highly incumbent on us to do good and meritorious deeds. If we can act according to Truth, we will certainly get good fruits.



34. Vyâsa said :-- Thus addressed by Vâsudeva, the husband of Devakî, who was very much grieved and intelligent, gave over the newly born baby, her whole body trembling, to the hands of Vâsudeva.



35. The virtuous Vâsudeva took that baby and went out to the Kamsa’s palace. On the way, the people, seeing him thus, were very much astonished and began to praise him.

36-37. The people said :-- “O people! See how Vâsudeva is sensible to keep his words! He is taking his son to hand over to Kamsa. This truthful and highsouled man, free from malice, is going to give up his son to the hands of Kamsa who is the Death Personified. See his wonderful patience; this man’s life is really high, noble and true.”



38. Vyâsa said :-- O King! Vâsudeva, thus praised, reached at last the Kamsa’s palace and handed over his newly-born son to Kamsa.



39-41. The King Kamsa, too, was very much astonished to see this wonderful patience of Vâsudeva. Then he held aloft the child and laughed and said :-- “O son of S’ûrasena, you have been blessed today by giving me your son just now. But the voice from Heaven said that your eighth son will be the cause of my death; this your first son is not my cause of death. Therefore I will not kill this baby; you can take your baby back to your home.



O High-minded One! Let me have your eighth son brought here, when he will be born; I hope you will positively do it.”



42. The cruel and wicked Kamsa returned the child and said :-- “Let this child go back safely to his home.”



43-44. When the king Kamsa said thus, Vâsudeva, the son of S’ûrasena gladly took his child back and came home. Then the King Kamsa told his ministers that the Heavenly voice told that the eighth son would he the cause of his death; and so there was no necessity to kill that child. There was no need to incur sin by killing the first child.



45. The ministers, hearing the king Kamsa’s those words, began to praise him very much and exclaimed repeatedly “Well done” “Well done.” They went away to their respective homes, when ordered to do so by Kamsa.



46-49. Now Nârada, the best of the Munis, arrived to Kamsa. The king Kamsa, the son of Ugrasena, stood up at once and offered him water to wash



p. 333



his mouth and with green grass and rice worshipped him devotedly and enquired of his welfare. He then asked the Muni about the cause of his untimely arrival there. The Maharsi Nârada then smilingly and with sweet words repeatedly uttered “Kamsa,” “Kamsa” and then said, O blessed one! I went perchance to Sumeru Mountain. There Brahmâ and other gods formed an assembly and were thus thinking out plans that Visnu, the Supreme God, would take His birth in the womb of Devakî, the wife of Vâsudeva to kill Kamsa.



50. Now I ask you, you are very expert as a politician; then why have you not killed the son of Vâsudeva? Kamsa said :-- “I will kill the eighth son according to the Heavenly Voice.”



51. Nârada said :-- O King! Now I understand that you do not understand anything of politics, leading to auspicious or inauspicious results; especially when you are quite ignorant of the Mâyâ of the Devas, then what shall I say to you!



52-53. The truth is this :-- The warriors, looking after their own welfare, never overlook the weakest of their foes. What have you understood when the Heavenly Voice uttered “the eighth son.” It means the children counted from the first and then finished upto eighth; it may mean first, second, third or upto eighth. Never forego your enemies; then why have you desisted in killing your enemy when you got that enemy in your possession. Nothing is shewn of you in this act save dire foolishness, and ignorance.



54. Thus saying, the Maharsi Nârada vanished quickly. Kamsa, of little understanding brought back the son of Vâsudeva and killed him by dashing him against a stone and was relieved.


Note :-- This human body is a microcosm; the universe is the macrocosm. God resides in the centre and controls the two. In this human body also live the Devas and the Dânavas. The left half of the body, the Îdâ side, is the seat of the Devas. The right half, the Pingalâ side, is the seat of the Dânavas. In this body war is always going on between the Devas and Dânavas. Sometimes the Devas get victory; sometimes the Dânavas win. God is in the centre, the heart and controls the two.



Here ends the 21st Chapter of S’rî Mad Devî Bhâgavatam, the Mahâ Purânam of 18,000 verses composed by Veda Vyâsa, on the killing of the sons of Devakî.

...all together these eight constitute My separated material energies. [/B]

bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh
kham mano buddhir eva
ca
ahankara
itiyam me
---- http://www.physics4u.gr/faq/images/nebulacancer.jpg ---- http://users.telenet.be/lode.stevens/Cancer.htm


_________________"The material energy is acting under My superintendence." _____________________
_________________________________Krshna___________ _____________________________________

The Source of All Energy (http://webcom.com/~ara/col/magazine/BTG/btgjf95/soe.html)
When God says we're His energy, does that mean we're God?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lecture given in Bombay, March 30, 1971
by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Founder-Acarya of the International Society For Krishna Consciousness


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh
kham mano buddhir eva ca
ahankara itiyam me
bhinna prakrtir astadha
apareyam itas tv anyam
prakrtim viddhi me pram
jiva-bhutam maha-baho
yayedam dharyate jagat

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and false ego - all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.

Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting the resources of this material, inferior nature.

__Bhagavad-gita 7.4-5

HERE KRSNA EXPLAINS how He is everything. Material scientists study the five gross material elements: earth, wather, fire, air, and sky. And psychologists and philosophers study the three subtle elements: the intelligence, the false ego, and the stages of the mind - thinking, feeling, and willing. Here Krsna says, "These eight material elements are My separated energy."

We can understand "separated energy" in this way: I am speaking, and the tape recorder is recording my voice. When the tape is played, you'll find that I am speaking agian. But that speaking is different from my present speaking. That speaking is separated energy.

Although the material world is Krsna's separated energy, it acts under His direction. It is not independent. The material scientists think that there is no God and that matter is working only by actions and reactions. But that is not the fact.d Matter is dependent on the direction of the Supreme Lord. As Krsna states in the ninth chapter of the Bhagavad-gita, mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram: "The material energy is acting under My superintendence."

The idea that the material energy acts indepently is not a very good understanding. This electric fan is running, but it is not running independently. To run the fan we need electric energy, a powerhouse, and a superiintending engineer in the powerhouse. So at the end ther is a living force - the engineer.

Matter cannot work independently. We have no experience of matter working independently. When we see matter working, we must know that it is working because behind it is spiritual existence.

Krsna says that the material elements come from Him. But we cannot understand that from a person all these material manifestations are produced. The gigantic sky, the innumerable planets with varieties of energy - how is it possible that these are produced from a person? Therefore, those who are poor in knowledge think of the Supreme Absolute Truth as impersonal. But in fact He is a person.

The universe develops from Krsna, the supreme spirit, just as our body develops from the small spiritual spark. The size of that spiritual spark is described in the Vedic literature:


balagra-sata-bhagasya
satadha kalpitasya ca
bhago jivah sa vijneyah
sa canantyaya kalpate

If you divide the tip of a hair into one hundred parts and then take one of those parts and divide that again into one hundred parts - that one - ten-thousandth of the timp of a hair is the size of the spirit soul. And on the basis of the spirit soul, the body develops.


bhinna prakrtir astadha
Here Krsna says, "These eight material elements are My separated energy."

http://www.hpa.org.uk/careers/images/pic2.gifNazareth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[3] There is speculation and biblical indication that Nazarene meaning "of the village of Nazareth", was confused with "Nazirite," meaning a "separated" Jew ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazareth
Bina - Stage(Sl.) --- Binah (meaning "Understanding"; בינה) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binah_(Kabbalah))
The role of the .. (http://allpsych.com/psychology101/ego.html)
Asteroid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We need all our strength to meet the difficulties and dangers which surround us. We have external enemies to fight in the shape of materialism, prejudice, and obstinacy; the enemies in the shape of custom and religious forms; enemies too numerous to mention, but nearly as thick as the sand-clouds which are raised by the blasting Sirocco of the desert. Do we not need our strength against these foes? Yet, again, there are more insidious foes, who "take our name in vain," and who.. >> (http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:zFPh6kZB-NYJ:www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-am/hpb-am2.htm+sirocco+blavatsky&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=nl) Astronomical naming conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[synergy777]

http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/3401/Lvol1.html

Lost Tribes Of Israel Study Maps
Volume I (The Pre-Exodus Flights)


Volume I examines the Zarahite reign in Egypt prior to the Exodus. The Zarahites were descended from the Tribe of Judah; the Egyptians called them Hyksos which means the "Shepherd Kings." Volume I also covers the flights of the Zarahites along with members of the Tribe of Dan to Greece, Troy, Spain, Britain, Ireland, etc. Particular attention is paid to the Hebrew voyages of Danaus, Cadmus, Chalcol, Darda, Brutus and Corineus, and the Danaans. Source material includes the ancient histories and legends of Egypt, Greece, Ireland, and Britain. The remarkable story of the Lost Tribes of Israel reveals clear connections to the most famous Grecian tales such as the Trojan War, and Jason and the Argonauts.


Volume I also contains a detailed history of Jacob's Pillar, which is a special rock that belongs to the Kings and Queens of Israel. The author tracks this rock from Jacob to Moses, and then from Palestine to Ireland and then on to Britian. The current monarch of the United Kingdom received her crown while sitting over this important stone, Jacob's Pillar. And according to Biblical prophecy Christ will one day receive his own kingdom along with this stone.


india-israel-eire-hill of tara!

[synergy777]

http://www.rense.com/general81/jhistory.htm

Jewish History & Myth
'The Lion and the Gazelle'
By Uri Avnery Gush Shalom
4-20-8

Most interesting article written by a prominent Israeli peace activist, journalist and former member of the Israeli Knesset. He discusses the role of myth and the bible and how it relates to Jewish and Israeli history.

--Ed Corrigan

___________

TONIGHT THE JEWS all over the world will celebrate the Seder, the unique ceremony that unites Jews everywhere in the defining Jewish myth: the Exodus from Egypt.

Every year I marvel again at the genius of this ceremony. It unites the whole family, and everyone - from the venerable grandfather to the smallest child - has a role in it. It engages all the senses: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching. The simplistic text of the Haggadah, the book which is read aloud, the symbolic food, the four glasses of wine, the singing together, the exact repetition of every part every year - all these imprint on the consciousness of a child from the earliest age an ineradicable memory that they will carry with them to the grave, be they religious or not. They will never forget the security and warmth of the large family around the Seder table, and even in old age they will recall it with nostalgia. A cynic might see it as a perfect example of brain-washing.

Compared to the power of this myth, does it really matter that the Exodus from Egypt never took place? Thousands of Egyptian documents deciphered in recent years leave no room for doubt: the exodus of masses of people, as described in the Bible, or anything remotely like it, just never happened. These documents, which cover in the finest detail every period and every part of Canaan during this epoch prove beyond any doubt that there was no "Conquest of Canaan" and no kingdom of David and Solomon. For a hundred years, Zionist archeologists have devoted tireless efforts to finding even a single piece of evidence to support the Biblical narrative, all to no avail.

But this is quite unimportant. In the competition between "objective" history and myth, the myth that suits our needs will always win, and win big. It is not important what was, the important thing is what fires our imagination. That is what guides our steps to this day.

THE BIBLICAL narrative connects up with documented history only around the year 853 BC, when ten thousand soldiers and 2000 battle chariots of Ahab, King of Israel, took part in a grand coalition of the kingdoms of Syria and Palestine against Assyria. The battle, which was documented by the Assyrians, was fought at Qarqar in Syria. The Assyrian army was delayed, if not defeated.

(A personal note: I am not a historian, but for many years I have reflected on our history and tried to draw some logical conclusions, which are outlined here. Most of them are supported by the emerging consensus of independent scholars around the world.)

The kingdoms of Israel and Judea, which occupied a part of the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan, were no different from the other kingdoms of the region. Even according to the Bible itself, the people sacrificed to various pagan deities "on every high hill and under every green tree". (1 Kings 14:23).

Jerusalem was a tiny market town, much too small and much too poor for any of the things described in the Bible to have taken place there at the time. In the books of the Bible that deal with that period, the appellation "Jew" (Yehudi in Hebrew) hardly appears at all, and where it does, it clearly refers simply to an inhabitant of Judea, the area around Jerusalem. When an Assyrian general was asked "talk not with us in the Jewish language" (2 Kings 18:26), what was meant was the local Judean dialect of Hebrew.

The "Jewish" revolution took place in the Babylonian exile (587-539 BC). After the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem, members of the Judean elite were exiled to Babylon, where they came into contact with the important cultural streams of the time. The result was one of the great creations of mankind: the Jewish religion.

After some fifty years, some of the exiles returned to Palestine. They brought with them the name "Jews", the appellation of a religious-ideological-political movement, much like the "Zionists" of our time. Therefore, one can speak of "Judaism" and "Jews" - in the sense accepted now - only from then on. During the following 500 years, the Jewish monotheistic religion gradually crystallized. Also at this time, the most outstanding literary creation of all times, the Hebrew Bible, was composed. The writers of the Bible did not intend to write "history", in the sense understood today, but rather a religious, edifying and instructive text.

TO UNDERSTAND the birth and development of Judaism, one must consider two important facts:

(a) Right from the beginning, when the "Jews" came back from Babylon, the Jewish community in this country was a minority among the Jews as a whole. Throughout the period of the "Second Temple", the majority of Jews lived abroad, in the areas known today as Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Cyprus, Italy, Spain and so on.

The Jews of that period were not a "nation" - the very idea did not yet exist. The Jews of Palestine did not participate in the rebellions of the Jews in Libya and Cyprus against the Romans, and the Jews abroad took no part in the Great Revolt of the Jews in this country. The Maccabees were not national but religious fighters, rather like the Taliban in our days, and killed many more "Hellenized" Jews than enemy soldiers.

(b) This Jewish Diaspora was not a unique phenomenon. On the contrary, at that time it was the norm. Notions like "nation" belong to the modern world. During the period of the "Second Temple" and later on, the dominant social-political pattern was a religious-political community enjoying self-government and not attached to any specific territory. A Jew in Alexandria could marry a Jewess in Damascus, but not the Christian woman across the street. She, on her part, could marry a Christian man in Rome, but not her Hellenist neighbor. The Jewish Diaspora was only one of many such communities.

This social pattern was preserved in the Byzantine Empire, was later taken over by the Ottoman Empire and can still be detected in Israeli law. Today, a Muslim Israeli cannot marry a Jewish Israeli, a Druze cannot marry a Christian (at least not in Israel itself). The Druze, by the way, are a surviving example of such a Diaspora.

The Jews were unique only in one respect: after the European peoples gradually moved on to new forms of organization, and in the end turned themselves into nations, the Jews remained what they were - a communal-religious Diaspora.

THE PUZZLE that is occupying the historians is: how did a tiny community of Babylonian exiles turn into a worldwide Diaspora of millions? There is only one convincing answer to that: conversion.

The modern Jewish myth has it that almost all the Jews are descendents of the Jewish community that lived in Palestine 2000 years ago and was driven out by the Romans in the year 70 AD. That is, of course, baseless. The "Expulsion from the Country" is a religious myth: God was angry with the Jews because of their sins and exiled them from His country. But the Romans were not in the habit of moving populations, and there is clear evidence that a great part of the Jewish population in the country remained here after the Zealots' Revolt and after the Bar-Kochba uprising, and that most Jews lived outside the country long before that.

At the time of the Second Temple and later, Judaism was a proselytizing religion /par excellence/. During the first centuries AD it fiercely competed with Christianity. While the slaves and other downtrodden people in the Roman Empire were more attracted to the Christian religion, with its moving human story, the upper classes tended towards Judaism. Throughout the Empire, large numbers adopted the Jewish religion.

Especially puzzling is the origin of "Ashkenazi" Jewry. At the end of the first millennium there appeared in Europe - apparently out of nowhere - a very large Jewish population, the existence of which was not documented before. Where did they come from?

There are several theories about that. The conventional one holds that the Jews wandered from the Mediterranean area to the North, settled in the Rhein valley and fled from the pogroms there to Poland, at the time the most liberal country in Europe. From there they dispersed into Russia and Ukraine, taking with them a German dialect that became Yiddish. The Tel Aviv University scholar Paul Wexler asserts, on the other hand, that Yiddish was originally not a German but a Slavic language. A large part of Ashkenazi Jewry, according to this theory, are descendents of the Sorbs, a Slavic people that lived in Eastern Germany and was forced to abandon its ancient pagan creed. Many of them preferred to become Jews, rather than Christians.

In a recent book with the provocative title "When and How the Jewish People was Invented", the Israeli historian Shlomo Sand argues - like Arthur Koestler and others before him - that most of the Ashkenazi Jews are really descended from the Khazars, a Turkic people that created a large kingdom in what is now South Russia more than a thousand years ago. The Khazar king converted to Judaism, and according to this theory the Jews of Eastern Europe are mostly the descendants of Khazar converts. Sand also believes that most Sephardi Jews are descendents of Arab and Berber tribes in North Africa that had converted to Judaism instead of becoming Muslims, and had joined in the Muslim conquest of Spain.

When Jewry stopped proselytizing, the Jews became a closed, ethnic-religious community (as the Talmud says: "Converts are hard for Israel like a skin disease").

But the historical truth, whatever it is, is not so important. Myth is stronger than truth, and it says that the Jews were expelled from this land. This is an essential layer in modern Jewish consciousness, and no academic research can shake it.

IN THE LAST 300 years, Europe turned "national". The modern nation replaced earlier social patterns, such as the city state, feudal society and the dynastic empire. The national idea carried all before it, including history. Each of these new nations shaped an "imagined history" for itself. In other words, every nation rearranged ancient myths and historical facts in order to shape a "national history" which proclaims its importance and serves as a unifying glue.

The Jewish Diaspora, which - as mentioned before - was "normal" 2000 years ago, became "abnormal" and exceptional. This intensified the Jew-hatred that was anyhow rampant in Christian Europe. Since all the national movements in Europe were - more or less - anti-Semitic, many Jews felt that they were left "outside", that they had no place in the new Europe. Some of them decided that the Jews must conform to the new /Zeitgeist/ and turn the Jewish community into a Jewish "nation".

For that purpose, it was necessary to reshape and reinvent Jewish history and turn it from the annals of a religious-ethnic Diaspora into the epic story of a "nation". The job was undertaken by a man who can be considered the godfather of the Zionist idea: Heinrich Graetz, a German Jew who was influenced by German nationalism and created a "national" Jewish history. His ideas have shaped Jewish consciousness to this day.

Graetz accepted the Bible as if it were a history book, collected all the myths and created a complete and continuous historical narrative: the period of the Fathers, the Exodus from Egypt, the Conquest of Canaan, the "First Temple", the Babylonian Exile, the "Second Temple", the Destruction of the Temple and the Exile. That is the history that all of us learned in school, the foundation upon which Zionism was built.

ZIONISM REPRESENTED a revolution in many fields, but its mental revolution was incomplete. Its ideology turned the Jewish community into a Jewish people, and the Jewish people into a Jewish nation - but never clearly defined the differences. In order to win over the religiously inclined Jewish masses in Eastern Europe, it made a compromise with religion and mixed all terms into a one big cocktail - the religion is also a nation, the nation is also a religion, and later asserted that Israel is a "Jewish state" that belongs to its (Jewish?) citizens but also to the "Jewish people" throughout the world. Official Israeli doctrine has it that Israel is the "Jewish nation state", but Israeli law narrowly defines a "Jew" as only a person who belongs to the Jewish religion.

Herzl and his successors were not courageous enough to do what Mustafa Kemal Ataturk did when he founded modern Turkey: he fixed a clear and sharp border between the Turkish nation and Islamic religion and imposed a complete separation between the two. With us, everything remained one big salad. This has many implications in real life.

For example: if Israel is the state of the "Jewish people", as one of our laws says - what is there to stop an Israeli Jew from joining the Jewish community in California or Australia? Small wonder that there is almost no leader in Israel whose children have not emigrated.

WHY IS IT so important to differentiate between the Israeli nation and the Jewish Diaspora? One of the reasons is that a nation has a different attitude to itself and towards others than a religious-ethnic Diaspora.

Similarly: different animals have different ways of reacting to danger. A gazelle flees when it senses danger, and nature has equipped it with the necessary instincts and physical capabilities. A lion, on the other side, sticks to its territory and defends it against intruders. Both methods are successful, otherwise there would be no gazelles or no lions in the world.

The Jewish Diaspora developed an efficient response that was well suited to its situation: when Jews sensed danger, they fled and dispersed. That's why the Jewish Diaspora managed to survive innumerable persecutions, and even the Holocaust itself. When the Zionists decided to become a nation - and indeed did create a real nation in this country - they adopted the national response: to defend themselves and attack the sources of danger. One cannot, therefore, be a Diaspora and a nation, a gazelle and a lion, at the same time.

If we, the Israelis, want to consolidate our nation, we have to free ourselves from the myths that belong to another form of existence and re-define our national history. The story about the exodus from Egypt is good as a myth and an allegory - it celebrates the value of freedom - but we must recognize the difference between myth and history, between religion and nation, between a Diaspora and a state, in order to find our place in the region in which we live and develop a normal relationship with the neighboring peoples.

[synergy777]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058586095&posted=1#post1058586095

[haukipesukone]

Argh, more reading. *bump*

[synergy777]

Argh, more reading. *bump*

reading is good for you, its the discernment part that annoys me, lol

[synergy777]

Shatkona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Shatkona is a symbol used in Hindu yantra that represents the union of both the male and feminine form. More specifically it is supposed to represent Purusha (the supreme being), and Prakriti (mother nature, or causal matter). Often this is represented as Shiva - Shakti.[1]

The Shatkona is a hexagram and looks exactly like the Star of David in Semitic lore.


---


http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1533


Hexagram (Shatkona, Seal of Solomon)

A hexagram is a six pointed star composed of two overlapped triangles, found in use by a number of faiths and cultures. Outside of the cross and the swastika, the hexagram is one of the oldest and most universal spiritual symbols. The hexagram is associated with the Biblical Solomon, best known as the Star of David in the Jewish religion.

The Seal of Solomon

In Ritual Magick, the hexagon is called the Seal of Solomon, and represents Divine Union, being composed of a female, watery triangle, and a male, fiery triangle. The traditional elemental triangles of earth, air, water, and fire are derived from the seal. According to a very old legend, the seal was engraved upon a magic ring, which Solomon used to control demons, which he enslaved to build his famous temple. When the points of a hexagram are connected, a hexagon is formed. Kabbalistically, the hexagram represents the Sefirah Tifaret, perfection.

Hindu Shatkona In the Hindu religion, the hexagram is called the Shatkona, and is equivalent to the symbolism in ritual magic. The Shatkona is the combination of the Shiva kona (trikona, triangle), the symbol of the God Shiva, representing the element of fire, and the Shakti kona, representing the element of water. Together, they represent the union of male and female, and the heart chakra.

[synergy777]

mods, could you please move this thread to religion, please.

[synergy777]

bump.

can the admin please move this thread to the religion section, please.

[decode reality]

Wow, lots of good stuff to read on this thread, Synergy...a daunting task though!

[synergy777]

vedic brahmins and jews thread.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2497&highlight=vedic+brahmins

article:

Hebrews And Vedic Brahmins

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0307/ET14-8222.html

------------

josephus qoute:

http://www.studylight.org/his/bc/wfj...ok=1&chapter=1

flavius josephus contra apinon chapter 1 verse 22.

these Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem

does anyone have any thoughts, about the origin of jews, being india?

after all this assumption is made by the most famous jewish historian of all time.

also added tol this aristotle, a famous greek philospher, and

clearchus of soli.

Clearchus of Soli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

also in godfrey higgins books anacalypsis


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-sNBAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA400&lpg=PA400&dq=Indians+Calami&source=bl&ots=PxYGkOKpYa&sig=6FkX2xKQvcnkAb-mx5PJvt6wFO8&hl=en&ei=cICPTNTmEZLM4Abk3YWSDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Indians%20Calami&f=false