'Husband' and 'wife' considered 'homophobic' words

[edelweiss pirate]

Check out this fresh madness.


Teachers told to avoid using homophobic terms

By Bruce McDougall

April 17, 2008 12:05pm
Article from: The Daily Telegraph

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* Anti-homophobia push underway in NSW schools
* 'Husband' and 'wife' both on banned words list
* Move shows value of diversity, education boss says

TEACHERS are being urged to stop using terms such as husband and wife when addressing students or families under a major anti-homophobia push in schools.

The terms boyfriend, girlfriend and spouse are also on the banned list - to be replaced by the generic "partner" - in changes sought by the gay lobby aimed at reducing discrimination in classrooms.

The Daily Telegraph has revealed NSW schools are being pressured to provide lessons for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender students and stack their libraries with books and videos covering their issues.

Among the demands are the outlawing of homophobic comments by teachers or students in the playground and a requirement for teachers to receive "diversity training".

Education Director-General Michael Coutts-Trotter emerged yesterday as a leader of the anti-homophobia campaign, opening a Government-backed conference on sexual diversity - That's So Gay.

The Federation of Parents and Citizens' Associations also weighed into the debate, calling for "appropriate literacy materials promoting diversity in families".

The radical shake-up means that families with two mums or two dads will likely be accepted as a normal part of school communities.

Mr Coutts-Trotter said public schools had a responsibility to include children from same-sex couples and forbid any kind of discrimination.

"Happy families come in all shapes and sizes," he said.

"We value diversity and include everyone in the life of the school ... meeting the bare legal requirement is not enough.

"Public education has a responsibility to include ... to strive to make all feel welcome."

Mr Coutts-Trotter said he was aware some teenagers felt, "lonely and abandoned as they come to terms with their sexuality".

He said leadership from students in public and independent schools was an important weapon to support those facing discrimination and "combat homophobia".

"Our schools should be sanctuaries (for students)."

The NSW Department of Education and Training said any attempt to stop same-sex partners from attending a school formal in NSW - as controversially occurred in Queensland - was likely to breach anti-discrimination laws.

The Daily Telegraph also found that the department is already spearheading a major push to win acceptance for gay and lesbian students in public schools.

"Teaching about sexual diversity, tolerance and anti-bullying occurs through the personal development, health and physical education (PDHPE) curriculum in all NSW schools - public and independent," the spokesman said.

"In Years 7 and 8 students learn about bullying, including anti-homophobia. This is reinforced in Years 9 and 10 in anti-discrimination topics in the curriculum."

"Same-sex attraction issues" are included in students' lessons on relationships, diversity and discrimination.

A 25-hour course, mandatory for Year 11 and 12 students in government schools, examines "issues relating to sexuality and sexual diversity".

Debate over books used to teach young children about gay lifestyles has been a hot issue in the past.

Two years ago argument became heated over a push to have books such as Jed and His Dads and The Rainbow Cubbyhouse taught in Sydney daycare centres.

Yesterday the Australian Association of National Advertisers announced major changes to its code of conduct banning future advertisements for kids' products from including sexual imagery or implying that children - classed as 14 or under - are sexual beings.
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Is this an April fool thing? S'gotta be...

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23551136-2,00.html

[dangermouse]

Things just keep on getting more insane.

[zero1]

Political Correctness out of control, for sure.

[red_ram]

Like David has said, it's an attack on the language to bring it closer and closer to Newspeak.

I will use these non-PC words whenever I can and show through my actions that I am not sexist, racist or homophobic.

[peachped]

How about babberstaber? :eek:

[tb303]

"Same-sex attraction issues"

Yeah, tell the poof to fuck off if you find yourself in a ""Same-sex attraction issue" situation.

Ooh, sorry, musn't call them poofs now, must we?

[name]

The mainstream media is full of shit. This is just the kind of reaction they want. It's all about divisiveness.

Homophobia is pathetic.

[steevo]

I was glad when that Peter Tatchell got beaten up in Russia :eek:. Not because I hate gays but because he is working for the NWO (maybe without knowing it but I doubt it). He marches into Russia trying to impose his sexuality on the people of a country where he isnt even invited, trying to brainwash the kids (that's what it looked like to me anyway).

Like some others have probably said previously on the forum, I actually think that gays and lesbians have been brainwashed into it. As far as I am concerned we ALL can do whatever we/they want behind closed doors but it shouldnt be normalised IN MY OPINION and there should be no laws written around homosexuality, but they shouldnt be persecuted for it - They are victims of the brainwashing afterall. The people who run the mainstream media are the guilty parties, the Illuminati (or whatever you wanna call them).

"The powers that be" are using whatever means they can to divide the nation and the gay agenda is one of them IMO.

[danucrom]

Australian cities and their suburbs are a testbed for this kind of thing. Sadly some of the most strange "laws" that were tested in NZ and OZ are coming your way now..

Not dissing ozzys or kiwis btw. The country dwelling versions of both seem to have their heads screwed on.

[beldazar]

Bloody hell! How can 'husband' and 'wife' be homophobic terms F.F.S!

[montag]

Australian cities and their suburbs are a testbed for this kind of thing. Sadly some of the most strange "laws" that were tested in NZ and OZ are coming your way now..

Not dissing ozzys or kiwis btw. The country dwelling versions of both seem to have their heads screwed on.
You're exactly right danucrom, PC is rife here, you now can be charged with assault in NZ for smacking your child. All the climate change propaganda is taking nicely here too, have a look at this..

Most Australians alarmed at climate change

NINE out of 10 Australians are worried about climate change, but most are unconvinced Labor will do a better job cutting greenhouse emissions than the Coalition.

link (http://www.theage.com.au/news/environment/most-australians-alarmed-at-climate-change/2008/04/14/1208025091723.html)

[danucrom]

You're exactly right danucrom, PC is rife here, you now can be charged with assault in NZ for smacking your child. All the climate change propaganda is taking nicely here too, have a look at this..

Most Australians alarmed at climate change

NINE out of 10 Australians are worried about climate change, but most are unconvinced Labor will do a better job cutting greenhouse emissions than the Coalition.

link (http://www.theage.com.au/news/environment/most-australians-alarmed-at-climate-change/2008/04/14/1208025091723.html)

I don't doubt it in fairness.. Most Australians live in about .1%, but its a big fuckin country. And Kiwis winge and bitch just like the Irish. Rise up and push over your masters. AaAAAAAAAaaahhhhhhhhhhh.

Ned

http://www.webwombat.com.au/travel/articles/images/ned_armour.jpg

[danucrom]

You're exactly right danucrom, PC is rife here, you now can be charged with assault in NZ for smacking your child. All the climate change propaganda is taking nicely here too, have a look at this..

Most Australians alarmed at climate change

NINE out of 10 Australians are worried about climate change, but most are unconvinced Labor will do a better job cutting greenhouse emissions than the Coalition.

link (http://www.theage.com.au/news/environment/most-australians-alarmed-at-climate-change/2008/04/14/1208025091723.html)



YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

:rolleyes:

[Ian2day]

I think that the use of the word homophobic is misplaced here. In reality Husband and Wife are patriarchal titles. By removing the use of these and other words in every day language it is an exercise in cultural change and 'evolution'.

Make no mistake rightly or wrongly. The language, symbolism and cultural artefact's of the Eurocentric patriarchal system of oppression, exploitation and control. Are slowly being replaced with a new language intended for a new paradigm.

This change of vocabulary.As well as the redefining of the shared espoused values and beliefs of the age of control. Leads to those from a previous generation some may say, feeling with some justification, discarded and used. It is, as if they have become the understudy in the play of life. Or to use a lyric of mine, the underbelly stacks up ten high.

[beldazar]

I must be thick but how can wife be 'patriarchal'? More like 'matriarchal' wouldnt you say?? :D

[Ian2day]

I must be thick but how can wife be 'patriarchal'? More like 'matriarchal' wouldnt you say?? :D

Wife is patriarchal in this context as the title is usually always mentioned second. Therefore it is subservient to the dominant male title. It is secondary in this context therefore it is a reinforcement of the male dominated system of control and oppression. Where the male is the head of the family or social system.



Adj.1.patriarchal - characteristic of a form of social organization in which the male is the family head and title is traced through the male line
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/patriarchal

[rustic]

Can I just clarify - is David Icke homophobic? It seems all this anti 'political-correctness' is aimed at the gay community (which I think have every right to be worried about how they are treated within society). One of the headlines this week was

Tuesday, 15 April 2008
'Offensive' Gay Blood Donation Ban Could Be Overturned Despite Aids Risk

I'm confused...
1. Isn't blood tested before it is actually put in to anyone
2. Would David consider putting up such a headline if it happened that more black people or more women had HIV?

I genuinely wanted to clarify if David is actually Homophobic...?

[beldazar]

Hi Iantoday, I was only messing but Im sure it doesnt just mean when the two words appear together.

Rustic, it was just headline news, David didnt word it himself.

[Ian2day]

Hi Iantoday, I was only messing but Im sure it doesnt just mean when the two words appear together.

Rustic, it was just headline news, David didnt word it himself.

Its ok Patriarchal in its traditional interpretation is more or less as you interpret it. I was just taking it one step beyond that. It is also possible that it is down to linguistic reasons that husband is said before wife. It would be interesting to see if it is easier to say as a combination in other languages in the same order. Unlike that last sentence of mine! For instance was husband always first in the Bible or has it over the years been switched round.

[montag]

Looks like the original story may have been a psy op to test the publics reaction as they've now done a 180 degree turnaround..

Schools boss denies 'dad' and 'mum' ban

SCHOOLS will not move to stop using words like mum and dad, or girlfriend and boyfriend, the New South Wales Education Department says, despite reports that public schools are under pressure to provide gay-friendly environments.

Changes to terminology, such as using the word "partner" to cover heterosexual relationships, are being sought by gay lobbyists bent on reducing discrimination in a major anti-homophobia push in the state's schools, The Daily Telegraph reports.

But Department of Education and Training director-general Michael Coutts-Trotter says there is no move to stop using terms such as boyfriend, girlfriend, mum or dad in public school classrooms.

Media reports that there are moves to stop using these terms are "simply wrong", Mr Coutts-Trotter said today.

"Public schools do not tolerate discrimination of any kind, whether on the grounds of religion, race, disability, gender or sexual preference," he said.

"Schools have to be sanctuaries for children; they must be free of any sort of discrimination, bullying or harassment.

"However, this does not include imposing a new politically correct language in schools."

Debate over books used to teach young children about gay lifestyles has been a hot issue in the past.

Two years ago argument became heated over a push to have books such as Jed and His Dads and The Rainbow Cubbyhouse taught in Sydney daycare centres.

Yesterday the Australian Association of National Advertisers announced major changes to its code of conduct banning future advertisements for kids' products from including sexual imagery or implying that children - classed as 14 or under - are sexual beings.

With AAP (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23551136-2,00.html)

[beldazar]

Hi Iantoday, yes it is spoken of husband and wife but maybe it is because it is easier to say that way round, it rolls off the tongue easier.
When I write cards to friends I dont consciously put one first, I just word it in the way that sounds best.
Im sure that this is the reason 'husband' comes first. Although I am well aware of the female suppression in this world being a woman myself :)

[esse]

Just food for thought, but beyond the other implications and issues mentioned, I think the terms "Husband" and "Wife" or "Wife and Husband" suggest more inherently that go against the New World or Brave New World sentiment. Husband and Wife suggests commitment, possibly even some kind of possession, ownership if you will - partnership brings to mind more of an arrangement, something more temporary perhaps, more of a deal. I know we use these words losely, and that in general the old fashioned kind of commitment has taken a real beating, but I think the words do more than just promote a vagueness about gender or androgeny. There are possibly class implications, "Husband and Wife" seem to denote a different class of relationship as well - there is a lot of history in language and all the shades that go into it. Partner seems very generic, not so human - it seems to have become more the norm to use this term in the last decade in Australia anyway.

[limelady]

In my opinion, the game play is all about making people feel isolated and disconnected.

They'll do whatever it takes to make people feel disfranchised because this way people feel isolated, and are easy to control.

The family unit (husband, wife, father, mother...whatever) are all titles that imply 'connectedness' or being part of something tangible, real, a part of something worth having.......break em all into shattered fragments, then you have em!

Newspeak for sure, and I agree with montag, this sounds like a psyops test-run to see if the people are ready to accept this yet.....or not.

[lumukanda]

remember the days when you could just say, that's fucking stupid.
this is such a case, but people are so eager to be victims these days, they'd best watch out, or that is exactly what they'll be.

[father ted]

Homo = man,
phobia = fear of

The term homophobia is incorect in the first place, but who gives a fuck? If you want to be pedantic about this issue just the same, you have to use a more "correct" for the word homophobia FIRST, which in turn would oh who knows!

[Ian2day]

Hi Iantoday, yes it is spoken of husband and wife but maybe it is because it is easier to say that way round, it rolls off the tongue easier.
When I write cards to friends I dont consciously put one first, I just word it in the way that sounds best.
Im sure that this is the reason 'husband' comes first. Although I am well aware of the female suppression in this world being a woman myself :)

Well you're welcome to come round and give me some suppression anytime you like. That should redress the imbalance of inequality you have experienced. Oh and I never come first ;)

[rustic]

Is David Anti-Gay?

Is he?

no, yes, no, yes?

[beldazar]

Haha, nice one iantoday, made me smile! :D

[manchurian_candidate]

Is David Anti-Gay?

Is he?

no, yes, no, yes?

Who are directing the question to? :confused:

[rustic]

Just a general question. I keep spotting strange headlines on the headline page and this post seems a little off tilt (not that david has anything to do with this post but the headlines I'm sure he's aware of what's being posted). 'Husband and Wife' are brought about through religion, religion is homophobic. Why not stop using the terms husband and wife? What's up with saying 'Partner'? Is it that big a deal if it'll stop a gay kid feeling isolated?

[father ted]

Just a general question. I keep spotting strange headlines on the headline page and this post seems a little off tilt (not that david has anything to do with this post but the headlines I'm sure he's aware of what's being posted). 'Husband and Wife' are brought about through religion, religion is homophobic. Why not stop using the terms husband and wife? What's up with saying 'Partner'? Is it that big a deal if it'll stop a gay kid feeling isolated?

What's really fucked up is that if you have a business partner or someone whom you're in partnership with over something, and you say "partner" in conversation describing that person, people think you're gay.

[lumukanda]

Just a general question. I keep spotting strange headlines on the headline page and this post seems a little off tilt (not that david has anything to do with this post but the headlines I'm sure he's aware of what's being posted). 'Husband and Wife' are brought about through religion, religion is homophobic. Why not stop using the terms husband and wife? What's up with saying 'Partner'? Is it that big a deal if it'll stop a gay kid feeling isolated?

it's not about that, it's meant to divide people, to make everyone conform to the PC way of thinking, a way which puts most people off balance, scared and ripe for all kinds of psy ops.
political correctness is the beginning of thoughtcrime and newspeak, i mean really, how am i disrespecting gays by calling my wife my wife?

[rustic]

'What's really fucked up is that if you have a business partner or someone whom you're in partnership with over something, and you say "partner" in conversation describing that person, people think you're gay.'

Really? where are the statistics? Have you done a survey or do you read minds?

[rustic]

it's not about that, it's meant to divide people, to make everyone conform to the PC way of thinking, a way which puts most people off balance, scared and ripe for all kinds of psy ops.
political correctness is the beginning of thoughtcrime and newspeak, i mean really, how am i disrespecting gays by calling my wife my wife?

It is in reference to schools. In most references to sexual relationships in schools the relationship is assumed to be heterosexual. I think the point of whoever was trying to be 'politically correct' was that gay people have long been ignored and section 28 made sure they were vilified. So maybe schools should be more careful about saying wife and husband

[rustic]

http://www.savethemales.ca/canada_convulsed_by_heterophob.html ????????????????????????????

[tb303]

It is in reference to schools. In most references to sexual relationships in schools the relationship is assumed to be heterosexual. I think the point of whoever was trying to be 'politically correct' was that gay people have long been ignored and section 28 made sure they were vilified. So maybe schools should be more careful about saying wife and husband

Oh don't be so stupid.

This has got bugger all (excuse the pun) to do with protecting homosexual's rights, it's about destroying traditional family units and indoctrinating kids into thinking it's abnormal to have a mother and a father, which in many cases, if not most, it is now abnormal, hence all the feral chav kids running riot about the place with no father figure to look up to, just the STATE.

I suppose that you think it's a good idea that blackboards in schools must now be called chalkboards :rolleyes:

[rustic]

I have answered my own question. David Icke is utterly Anti-Gay. I feel a bit duped. He references Henry Makow a lot. Anti-Gay.


Thus when teenagers disparage certain behavior as "gay" it is a healthy sign. However it would be wrong to harm a gay teenager whose only fault is s/he is gay, which often is beyond their control

Anyone need 2 tickets for David Ickes Bile spilling at Brixton Academy? I have 2 going. Full price ofcourse.

[rustic]

Oh don't be so stupid.

This has got bugger all (excuse the pun) to do with protecting homosexual's rights, it's about destroying traditional family units and indoctrinating kids into thinking it's abnormal to have a mother and a father, which in many cases, if not most, it is now abnormal, hence all the feral chav kids running riot about the place with no father figure to look up to, just the STATE.

I suppose that you think it's a good idea that blackboards in schools must now be called chalkboards :rolleyes:

Mhmmmmmm...Ofcourse, all those Ferel chav kids without fathers running riot. Men are such positive role models after all aren't they? And women so incapable of raising well-balanced kids on their own.

And 'tradition' is a great way to stay isn't it.

[lumukanda]

It is in reference to schools. In most references to sexual relationships in schools the relationship is assumed to be heterosexual. I think the point of whoever was trying to be 'politically correct' was that gay people have long been ignored and section 28 made sure they were vilified. So maybe schools should be more careful about saying wife and husband

i think it's stupid, soon we won't be able to say mother, because someone out there doesn't have a mother, or we won't be able to say food, because someone is hungry, it's a way of controlling the way people talk and that leads to people censoring themselves before the even open their mouths, and they're trying to do that early, when they're young so it's automatic when they get older. i presume this is to foster more respect for gays, but what about respect for straight people, and don't say discrimination blah blah, years and years, blah blah, we're meant to be cleverer than tit for tat, obviously not.

[lumukanda]

I have answered my own question. David Icke is utterly Anti-Gay. I feel a bit duped. He references Henry Makow a lot. Anti-Gay.


Thus when teenagers disparage certain behavior as "gay" it is a healthy sign. However it would be wrong to harm a gay teenager whose only fault is s/he is gay, which often is beyond their control

Anyone need 2 tickets for David Ickes Bile spilling at Brixton Academy? I have 2 going. Full price ofcourse.

do you make a habit of putting words in people's mouths? if we don't agree with you, we're anti gay, like israelis who call anyone who critisizes israel an anti semite. tut tut.

[rustic]

i think it's stupid, soon we won't be able to say mother, because someone out there doesn't have a mother, or we won't be able to say food, because someone is hungry, it's a way of controlling the way people talk and that leads to people censoring themselves before the even open their mouths, and they're trying to do that early, when they're young so it's automatic when they get older. i presume this is to foster more respect for gays, but what about respect for straight people, and don't say discrimination blah blah, years and years, blah blah, we're meant to be cleverer than tit for tat, obviously not.

Not even worth a response.

[rustic]

do you make a habit of putting words in people's mouths? if we don't agree with you, we're anti gay, like israelis who call anyone who critisizes israel an anti semite. tut tut.

Who's we?

[tb303]

I have answered my own question. David Icke is utterly Anti-Gay. I feel a bit duped. He references Henry Makow a lot. Anti-Gay.

If you're not gay, then your anti-gay? LOL

I think that you'll find that Mr Icke has stated on numerous occasions that someone else's sexual orientation is none of his business and that loving relationships can be same sex.

But you're obviously not seeing the bigger picture - one of social engineering and indoctrination aimed at splitting up family units - divide and conquer.


Anyone need 2 tickets for David Ickes Bile spilling at Brixton Academy? I have 2 going. Full price ofcourse.

Full price? Don't be so gay!


Mhmmmmmm...Ofcourse, all those Ferel chav kids without fathers running riot. Men are such positive role models after all aren't they? And women so incapable of raising well-balanced kids on their own.

Oooh, I sense that you're a bit anti-men. Didn't daddy love you properly?

And 'tradition' is a great way to stay isn't it.

It ain't about tradition, it's about what's natural and balanced.

[rustic]

If you're not gay, then your anti-gay? LOL

I think that you'll find that Mr Icke has stated on numerous occasions that someone else's sexual orientation is none of his business and that loving relationships can be same sex.

But you're obviously not seeing the bigger picture - one of social engineering and indoctrination aimed at splitting up family units - divide and conquer.



Full price? Don't be so gay!



Oooh, I sense that you're a bit anti-men. Didn't daddy love you properly?



It ain't about tradition, it's about what's natural and balanced.

Lol.

If you're anti-gay then you're anti-gay (not if you're not gay)
Can 2 gay people not have a family then?
I love men (and men love me)
'Full price? Don't be so gay!' -? I'm confused - what's gay about charging full price?

[tb303]

Lol.

If you're anti-gay then you're anti-gay (not if you're not gay)


It sounds like that in your kind of PC, utopian, Orwellian nightmare, to not be gay is anti-gay.


Can 2 gay people not have a family then?

It's not up to me and especially not up to the state to decide who has a family or not. It's up to you. If 2 gay people find themselves bringing up kids, then good luck to 'em. However, 2 gay people buying themselves babies is pretty warped if you ask me and shows very little empathy for the wellbeing of the child.


I love men (and men love me)

I love men too, I just don't wanna have sex with them. You are aware of the difference, aren't you?


'Full price? Don't be so gay!' -? I'm confused - what's gay about charging full price?

Don't be gay, go to Brixton. Just don't get too pissed like I did last time and fall asleep because it'll be a long day.

[father ted]

Really? where are the statistics? Have you done a survey or do you read minds?

Here are the statistics:
http://www.emich.edu/ois/statistics.gif

http://www.pulivh.gov.tw/en/images/statistics023.gif

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/606279/2/istockphoto_606279_statistics_3.jpg



I have also done a few surveys:
http://www.isc.org/ops/ds/hosts.png

http://www.ajaxian.com/images/survey06-all-small.png



No I don't read minds, I've done surveys and statistics. Here is a mathematical equasion:

http://laser.physics.sunysb.edu/~alex/tmodes/formulae/hgmode.png

[rustic]

Here are the statistics:
http://www.emich.edu/ois/statistics.gif

http://www.pulivh.gov.tw/en/images/statistics023.gif

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/606279/2/istockphoto_606279_statistics_3.jpg



I have also done a few surveys:
http://www.isc.org/ops/ds/hosts.png

http://www.ajaxian.com/images/survey06-all-small.png



No I don't read minds, I've done surveys and statistics. Here is a mathematical equasion:

http://laser.physics.sunysb.edu/~alex/tmodes/formulae/hgmode.png

I'm not sure that shows anything relevant

[rustic]

It sounds like that in your kind of PC, utopian, Orwellian nightmare, to not be gay is anti-gay.



It's not up to me and especially not up to the state to decide who has a family or not. It's up to you. If 2 gay people find themselves bringing up kids, then good luck to 'em. However, 2 gay people buying themselves babies is pretty warped if you ask me and shows very little empathy for the wellbeing of the child.



I love men too, I just don't wanna have sex with them. You are aware of the difference, aren't you?



Don't be gay, go to Brixton. Just don't get too pissed like I did last time and fall asleep because it'll be a long day.

Who's been buying babies?

What's your point in regards to the difference to being in love and having sex?

I take it David's Ramblings are pretty boring>?

[obladen]

It is in reference to schools. In most references to sexual relationships in schools the relationship is assumed to be heterosexual. I think the point of whoever was trying to be 'politically correct' was that gay people have long been ignored and section 28 made sure they were vilified. So maybe schools should be more careful about saying wife and husband

PRECISELY!!!

Growing up as a gay lad in the 80's, it was always man/wife,procreation, marriage etc; portrayed as the norm, the idea of same-sex relationships was never even mentioned.

It's analogous to telling a black kid everyone's white (in a predominantly white school).

I agree that banning the words 'husband' and 'wife' is ridiculous though - why can't they just explain it how it is, some people are heterosexual, some people aren't - what's the big deal?

[montag]

PRECISELY!!!

Growing up as a gay lad in the 80's, it was always man/wife,procreation, marriage etc; portrayed as the norm
Yes that is because it is normal..

the idea of same-sex relationships was never even mentioned. Thats because it is not normal..

nor-mal

1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2. serving to establish a standard.

Some people here seem to be missing the whole point, this is not about criticizing homosexuality which has and always will be a part of society and should be tolerated, this is about destruction of the traditional family unit. The family unit is the last vestige of the tribe and is therefore an enemy to the globalists plans, once the family is removed and there is no one standing between you and the state, Big Brother can then step in to that role and talk directly down to you. Brave New World by Huxley gives us a peek at this new scenario where promiscuity becomes the new normal and devotion to the same partner is considered immoral and repugnant, with the right indoctrination this could easily be achieved in a couple of generations, this is why they go for the children. So lets not be fooled in to a false debate throwing around accusations of homophobia because terms like that along with antisemitism and the like are designed to stifle real debate and play totally in to the hands of those who are intent on re engineering society to suit their own ends.

[kweli]

Yes that is because it is normal..

Thats because it is not normal..

nor-mal

1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2. serving to establish a standard.

Some people here seem to be missing the whole point, this is not about criticizing homosexuality which has and always will be a part of society and should be tolerated, this is about destruction of the traditional family unit. The family unit is the last vestige of the tribe and is therefore an enemy to the globalists plans, once the family is removed and there is no one standing between you and the state, Big Brother can then step in to that role and talk directly down to you. Brave New World by Huxley gives us a peek at this new scenario where promiscuity becomes the new normal and devotion to the same partner is considered immoral and repugnant, with the right indoctrination this could easily be achieved in a couple of generations, this is why they go for the children. So lets not be fooled in to a false debate throwing around accusations of homophobia because terms like that along with antisemitism and the like are designed to stifle real debate and play totally in to the hands of those who are intent on re engineering society to suit their own ends.

Very well put; a 'brave new world' is indeed unfolding and we're all (seemingly?) stood by watching it. Scary!

[tb303]

Yes that is because it is normal..

Thats because it is not normal..

nor-mal

1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2. serving to establish a standard.

Some people here seem to be missing the whole point, this is not about criticizing homosexuality which has and always will be a part of society and should be tolerated, this is about destruction of the traditional family unit. The family unit is the last vestige of the tribe and is therefore an enemy to the globalists plans, once the family is removed and there is no one standing between you and the state, Big Brother can then step in to that role and talk directly down to you. Brave New World by Huxley gives us a peek at this new scenario where promiscuity becomes the new normal and devotion to the same partner is considered immoral and repugnant, with the right indoctrination this could easily be achieved in a couple of generations, this is why they go for the children. So lets not be fooled in to a false debate throwing around accusations of homophobia because terms like that along with antisemitism and the like are designed to stifle real debate and play totally in to the hands of those who are intent on re engineering society to suit their own ends.

Yes, well put, but if any of our gay friends are still confused:

GAY + KIDS = UNNATURAL.

Fuck each other 'till the cows come home for all we care, but don't be selfish and bring kids into it, OK?

[limelady]

Yes that is because it is normal..

Thats because it is not normal..

nor-mal

1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2. serving to establish a standard.

Some people here seem to be missing the whole point, this is not about criticizing homosexuality which has and always will be a part of society and should be tolerated, this is about destruction of the traditional family unit. The family unit is the last vestige of the tribe and is therefore an enemy to the globalists plans, once the family is removed and there is no one standing between you and the state, Big Brother can then step in to that role and talk directly down to you. Brave New World by Huxley gives us a peek at this new scenario where promiscuity becomes the new normal and devotion to the same partner is considered immoral and repugnant, with the right indoctrination this could easily be achieved in a couple of generations, this is why they go for the children. So lets not be fooled in to a false debate throwing around accusations of homophobia because terms like that along with antisemitism and the like are designed to stifle real debate and play totally in to the hands of those who are intent on re engineering society to suit their own ends.


Summed it up very nicely montag!

[montag]

Yes, well put, but if any of our gay friends are still confused:

GAY + KIDS = UNNATURAL.

Fuck each other 'till the cows come home for all we care, but don't be selfish and bring kids into it, OK?
I don't think there is any doubt that there are many same sex couples that make wonderful and loving parents, so we must be careful not to generalize. The difference though is the promotion of this as being a new normal when it is most definitely not normal but the exception. There are also many heterosexuals having children for selfish reasons that have no business being parents, this needs mentioning too. Children are a gift and should be cherished as such and I don't believe the sexual orientation of the parents should have any bearing if the child is raised in a loving environment. Although having said that I also don't believe the traditional family unit should be disassembled to accommodate this new paradigm. If we want to live in a free society then that must mean freedom for all no matter what your life choices so long as you're not doing harm to others. Political correctness is the real enemy here not sexual preference and this story is just one more example of the absurdity of it all.

[esse]

this is about destruction of the traditional family unit. The family unit is the last vestige of the tribe and is therefore an enemy to the globalists plans, once the family is removed and there is no one standing between you and the state, Big Brother can then step in to that role and talk directly down to you. Brave New World by Huxley gives us a peek at this new scenario where promiscuity becomes the new normal and devotion to the same partner is considered immoral and repugnant, with the right indoctrination this could easily be achieved in a couple of generations, this is why they go for the children.


Well Said Montag - loved every word. So true, I agree that we should live and let live - respect difference and learn to love and support all people regardless of sexual preferences. I too think that when it comes to a question of behavioral origin or functionality it really has become a moot point in the sense that we live in a sick society. Sure, many Heterosexuals may be classed as "normal" yet even these relationships are largely disfunctional, while people's sexual orientation may seem normal on the outside, the number of disfunctional hetero's is something we don't seem to question as much. With regards to child rearing, yes, a child would be much better off with loving Homosexual parents or with a loving single parent even than with abusive Heterosexual parents. It's too hard to generalize, but if we must, let's have the foundation for child raising be kindness and support, not what one wants to do in the bedroom - God knows we've got plenty of pretty screwed up things in the heads of a huge percentage of people thanks to all the strange brainwashing and sexual stuff we're all exposed to these days. What is normal anymore? But what you said about the family being the last vestige of the tribe - I felt so much resonance with. A family, a tribe will put themselves and their own rights and welfare before anything. A "citizen" isolated and commodified, what have they to own, fight for, live and die for? We are humans afterall, and when we cherish those around us we consider to be integral to us, a part of us, we are strong - and supported in kind. When we become isolated members of the Brave New World - a world in which we, and everyone else are disposable, and in which the rights of the State to control it's "products" are paramount and the individual is nothing more than a unit... Well.... Divide and Conquer, it's always been the maxim of the sneaky elite.

:)

[rustic]

Yes that is because it is normal..

Thats because it is not normal..

nor-mal

1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2. serving to establish a standard.

Some people here seem to be missing the whole point, this is not about criticizing homosexuality which has and always will be a part of society and should be tolerated, this is about destruction of the traditional family unit. The family unit is the last vestige of the tribe and is therefore an enemy to the globalists plans, once the family is removed and there is no one standing between you and the state, Big Brother can then step in to that role and talk directly down to you. Brave New World by Huxley gives us a peek at this new scenario where promiscuity becomes the new normal and devotion to the same partner is considered immoral and repugnant, with the right indoctrination this could easily be achieved in a couple of generations, this is why they go for the children. So lets not be fooled in to a false debate throwing around accusations of homophobia because terms like that along with antisemitism and the like are designed to stifle real debate and play totally in to the hands of those who are intent on re engineering society to suit their own ends.

If all this is fact then bring on a new world order I say. In which gay is 'normal'.

[lumukanda]

If all this is fact then bring on a new world order I say. In which gay is 'normal'.
be careful what you wish for.

[rustic]

I don't think there is any doubt that there are many same sex couples that make wonderful and loving parents, so we must be careful not to generalize. The difference though is the promotion of this as being a new normal when it is most definitely not normal but the exception. There are also many heterosexuals having children for selfish reasons that have no business being parents, this needs mentioning too. Children are a gift and should be cherished as such and I don't believe the sexual orientation of the parents should have any bearing if the child is raised in a loving environment. Although having said that I also don't believe the traditional family unit should be disassembled to accommodate this new paradigm. If we want to live in a free society then that must mean freedom for all no matter what your life choices so long as you're not doing harm to others. Political correctness is the real enemy here not sexual preference and this story is just one more example of the absurdity of it all.


Who decided what was 'normal'?

Let me just get this straight forum advisor...homosexuals are abnormal, homosexuals raising kids is abnormal and homosexuals are fine as long as everyone is in a traditional family unit and no-one says 'it's ok for 2 guys to raise a kid' (or the like).

Presumably if kids are not being raised in a ''traditional family unit' then we are doing harm to them?

You sound like Margaret Thatcher.

[rustic]

be careful what you wish for.

Oh Honey...I've been waiting for the day that gay people can be classed as normal. So I wish I wish I wish...

[rustic]

Yes, well put, but if any of our gay friends are still confused:

GAY + KIDS = UNNATURAL.

Fuck each other 'till the cows come home for all we care, but don't be selfish and bring kids into it, OK?

Nope sorry...still confused

[montag]

You sound like Margaret Thatcher.
I suggest you re read my post as your comprehension seems quite poor, in fact it may take you a few reads but you may get there with luck.

montag

[rustic]

I suggest you re read my post as your comprehension seems quite poor, in fact it may take you a few reads but you may get there with luck.

montag

I have, still have the same thoughts. Gay people are not accepted here. hey ho.

[rustic]

In my opinion, the game play is all about making people feel isolated and disconnected.

They'll do whatever it takes to make people feel disfranchised because this way people feel isolated, and are easy to control.

The family unit (husband, wife, father, mother...whatever) are all titles that imply 'connectedness' or being part of something tangible, real, a part of something worth having.......break em all into shattered fragments, then you have em!

Newspeak for sure, and I agree with montag, this sounds like a psyops test-run to see if the people are ready to accept this yet.....or not.

Funny - cos i'm feeling pretty isolated and disconnected now in all my abnormalities.

[montag]

I have, still have the same thoughts. Gay people are not accepted here. hey ho.

There are those here that are not very accepting or tolerant of homosexual behavior and they usually make themselves known on these types of threads, but it is definitely not a consensus view, you'll find that most of us here don't hold those type of views at all.

If you go back to my original post that you quoted you'll find in no way did I condemn same sex families, this is what I said..

I don't believe the sexual orientation of the parents should have any bearing if the child is raised in a loving environment.

montag

[kingmonkey]

Most people just ignore this type of pc shit anyway.Once the stories disappeared no one cares. It's only the government and media who give a crap and they only care 'cause it winds everyone up. If someone is so fucking touchy - gay, straight, whatever - that terms like "husband" and "wife" and other everyday words make them feel isolated etc. then they need mental help. Life's a bitch, get a thick skin.

This kind of thing doesn't help stop bigotry it fuels it. Most people don't care if someone is gay these days. They do care however, when people tell them how to address them and what they can and can't say round them like they're royalty.

[rustic]

There are those here that are not very accepting or tolerant of homosexual behavior and they usually make themselves known on these types of threads, but it is definitely not a consensus view, you'll find that most of us here don't hold those type of views at all.

If you go back to my original post that you quoted you'll find in no way did I condemn same sex families, this is what I said..


montag

You also said I wasn't normal. I am completely clear as to what this means thank you.

What exactly is a forum adviser?

[rustic]

Most people just ignore this type of pc shit anyway.Once the stories disappeared no one cares. It's only the government and media who give a crap and they only care 'cause it winds everyone up. If someone is so fucking touchy - gay, straight, whatever - that terms like "husband" and "wife" and other everyday words make them feel isolated etc. then they need mental help. Life's a bitch, get a thick skin.

This kind of thing doesn't help stop bigotry it fuels it. Most people don't care if someone is gay these days. They do care however, when people tell them how to address them and what they can and can't say round them like they're royalty.

Do you mean most people don't care if people are gay nowadays if...
1. Gay people understand they are abnormal
2. Gay people do not raise children
3. Gay people understand that they are only gay because the powers that be are trying to destroy the 'family' unit.
4. Gay people do not complain when they consider themselves to be under-attack from anti-gay bigots because that is being 'touchy and PC'
5. Gay people get over the fact that the likelihood is they have never been fully accepted in society, probably been bullied are vilified by religion and etc etc. and should therefore just 'get a thick skin'

?

[tb303]

Nope sorry...still confused

Funny - cos i'm feeling pretty isolated and disconnected now in all my abnormalities.

Why should you give a toss what people here think of you?

Homosexuality is abnormal, i.e. most people aren't homosexual. Who cares if you're not normal? Be proud to be abnormal.

However, human procreation involves both the male and the female. If it's done in a laboratory or with the use of surrogate parents, it starts to become unnatural.

Is it fair to kids to raise them in an unnatural environment just to satisfy the ego trip of having a child?

[montag]

You also said I wasn't normal. I am completely clear as to what this means thank you.
It's not normal, but you say that like it's a bad thing. In many way's I too am not normal, but as the previous posters mentioned 'who cares?' Get over it.

What we are discussing here is political correctness and the dissolution of the family unit, are you aware of the agenda? Seems to me your understanding of this issue is very one dimensional and clouded by your own prejudices.

[montag]

Rustic whats your opinion of the OP? Do you deem the terms husband and wife as being homophobic? Do you think they should be dropped in favor of the generic term partner?

[rustic]

Why should you give a toss what people here think of you?

Homosexuality is abnormal, i.e. most people aren't homosexual. Who cares if you're not normal? Be proud to be abnormal.

However, human procreation involves both the male and the female. If it's done in a laboratory or with the use of surrogate parents, it starts to become unnatural.

Is it fair to kids to raise them in an unnatural environment just to satisfy the ego trip of having a child?

I give a toss what people here think of me because what people here think represent David Ickes opinions - and I am losing faith in him because of these opinions. So I am merely coming to realize that this is not a loving environment for me to be in. I would rather watch Oprah.

[lumukanda]

well, most of us are trying to have a debate about the subject, but you're carrying on like a drama queen.
you seem to be quite happy to sacrifice your freedoms for a couple of words, don't forget who was second in the firing line the last time fascism ran rampant.

[rustic]

Why should you give a toss what people here think of you?

Homosexuality is abnormal, i.e. most people aren't homosexual. Who cares if you're not normal? Be proud to be abnormal.

However, human procreation involves both the male and the female. If it's done in a laboratory or with the use of surrogate parents, it starts to become unnatural.

Is it fair to kids to raise them in an unnatural environment just to satisfy the ego trip of having a child?

Well actually, I don't think you have any idea of anyone's sexuality. I don't believe anyone to be 100% one way or the other. Nope, homosexuality is not abnormal.

How do you define 'unnatural'. What does that mean?

I am sure every gay person raising a child is merely on an ego trip. You are clearly a very clued up person

[kingmonkey]

Do you mean most people don't care if people are gay nowadays if...
1. Gay people understand they are abnormal
2. Gay people do not raise children
3. Gay people understand that they are only gay because the powers that be are trying to destroy the 'family' unit.
4. Gay people do not complain when they consider themselves to be under-attack from anti-gay bigots because that is being 'touchy and PC'
5. Gay people get over the fact that the likelihood is they have never been fully accepted in society, probably been bullied are vilified by religion and etc etc. and should therefore just 'get a thick skin'

?

1.I didn't say they were
2.I didn't say they couldn't
3.I didn't mention family unit
4.fair point.
5.I'm not saying they should accept they should never be accepted, but they never are going to be while the media and powers that be are setting them aside. I'm just saying that the public in general, in my opinion, would be more understanding and tolerant without the input from said areas.

I'm not gay and don't pretend to understand what it's like to be, but you can't expect everybody to.

[rustic]

Rustic whats your opinion of the OP? Do you deem the terms husband and wife as being homophobic? Do you think they should be dropped in favor of the generic term partner?

Not the point as I said earlier - the point of avoiding saying 'husband and wife' was to prevent schools putting so much emphasis on straight relationships. Because in doing so it isolates gay kids. In that context in schools I completely understand why they could be deemed homophobic terms. It has nothing to do with political correctness. It has to do with accepting that there are many different relationships that have to be represented in schools and if every time a relationship is referred to as a 'husband and wife' relationship that means that 'husband and wife' are taught to be the norm. This should not be the norm...it would seem that straight relationships appear to be normal because that is all we are taught. You have no idea how many people are gay, straight, bi etc etc. If you ask me I'd say the majority of the people on this thread have been mind-controlled in to believing their straight relationships are normal and natural. When actually you'll find that even penguins have gay tendencies.

Maybe there's something in the water.

[rustic]

1.I didn't say they were
2.I didn't say they couldn't
3.I didn't mention family unit
4.fair point.
5.I'm not saying they should accept they should never be accepted, but they never are going to be while the media and powers that be are setting them aside. I'm just saying that the public in general, in my opinion, would be more understanding and tolerant without the input from said areas.

I'm not gay and don't pretend to understand what it's like to be, but you can't expect everybody to.

I don't expect you to understand - I expect you to respect the fact that I've every right to be 'touchy'. You mention in your previous post you think I need mental help...? and a thick skin?

I think you need to stop spilling your bile, if you don't understand then don't comment.

[lumukanda]

that all makes perfect sense, but would it not make more sense to teach children that there are different types of relationships? children are not as stupid as people make them out to be, i'm sure they could understand both sides.

[rustic]

well, most of us are trying to have a debate about the subject, but you're carrying on like a drama queen.
you seem to be quite happy to sacrifice your freedoms for a couple of words, don't forget who was second in the firing line the last time fascism ran rampant.

Second as usual.

[tb303]

Well actually, I don't think you have any idea of anyone's sexuality. I don't believe anyone to be 100% one way or the other. Nope, homosexuality is not abnormal.


Typical comment from someone who is isn't sure about their own sexuality...we're all just waiting to be converted :rolleyes:

That's why you're here, isn't it? You're looking for approval, aren't you? You're looking for David Icke's approval, aren't you?


How do you define 'unnatural'. What does that mean?


The birds and the bees, mate.


I am sure every gay person raising a child is merely on an ego trip.

No, I'm sure that many find themselves raising children because of circumstances. I'm talking about gay couples deciding to buy a child.

BTW, there are plenty of heterosexual couples raising kids for the ego trip.

I give a toss what people here think of me because what people here think represent David Ickes opinions - and I am losing faith in him because of these opinions. So I am merely coming to realize that this is not a loving environment for me to be in. I would rather watch Oprah.

Instead of watching Oprah, why not research some of the other topics being discussed around here. You may then begin to wake up to your victim based mentality and how it is being perpetuated by social engineering, indoctrination and mind control. Poor little me, nobody loves me...blah, blah, blah...or go back to sleep and watch Oprah.

[lumukanda]

Second as usual.

missing the point as usual.

[rustic]

Typical comment from someone who is isn't sure about their own sexuality...we're all just waiting to be converted :rolleyes:

That's why you're here, isn't it? You're looking for approval, aren't you? You're looking for David Icke's approval, aren't you?



The birds and the bees, mate.



No, I'm sure that many find themselves raising children because of circumstances. I'm talking about gay couples deciding to buy a child.

BTW, there are plenty of heterosexual couples raising kids for the ego trip.



Instead of watching Oprah, why not research some of the other topics being discussed around here. You may then begin to wake up to your victim based mentality and how it is being perpetuated by social engineering, indoctrination and mind control. Poor little me, nobody loves me...blah, blah, blah...or go back to sleep and watch Oprah.

Lol. If I bother you so much pop off to one of these other topics. Goodbye.

xxx

[rustic]

well, most of us are trying to have a debate about the subject, but you're carrying on like a drama queen.
you seem to be quite happy to sacrifice your freedoms for a couple of words, don't forget who was second in the firing line the last time fascism ran rampant.

And do you know who was doing the firing?

[lumukanda]

And do you know who was doing the firing?
the grandparents of the people trying to create a global fascist dictatorship today.
all i'm saying is don't trade your freedoms for what will be a very shortlived victory, on the other hand, if you want to, go ahead, it really makes no difference to me, i'll call my wife my wife no matter who says i can or can't.

[tb303]

the grandparents of the people trying to create a global fascist dictatorship today.
all i'm saying is don't trade your freedoms for what will be a very shortlived victory, on the other hand, if you want to, go ahead, it really makes no difference to me, i'll call my wife my wife no matter who says i can or can't.

I don't think rustic is too concerned about an impending global fascist superstate, rather that the next guy who bones him 'loves' him...

[rustic]

the grandparents of the people trying to create a global fascist dictatorship today.
all i'm saying is don't trade your freedoms for what will be a very shortlived victory, on the other hand, if you want to, go ahead, it really makes no difference to me, i'll call my wife my wife no matter who says i can or can't.

I find it strange, David often says 'it makes no difference to me' or 'I don't care what you think...'.

At least in this 'global fascist dictatorship' 'they' understand the importance of trying to make me believe my opinion matters.

It sounds like I have 2 options. Believe in a fascist dictatorship or believe that you can say or do what you want no matter how much it offends and hurts other people.

Fortunately I have a third option. Democracy.

[lumukanda]

I find it strange, David often says 'it makes no difference to me' or 'I don't care what you think...'.

At least in this 'global fascist dictatorship' 'they' understand the importance of trying to make me believe my opinion matters.

It sounds like I have 2 options. Believe in a fascist dictatorship or believe that you can say or do what you want no matter how much it offends and hurts other people.

Fortunately I have a third option. Democracy.

excuse me for a sec....

http://www.stat.rice.edu/~riedi/pictures/laughter.gif

no seriously man, i've had enough, go back to watching oprah, she does make us all feel nice and fuzzy inside doesn't she?

[rustic]

excuse me for a sec....

http://www.stat.rice.edu/~riedi/pictures/laughter.gif

no seriously man, i've had enough, go back to watching oprah, she does make us all feel nice and fuzzy inside doesn't she?

She does yes. I love her. She's fabulous.

[numbersix]

Many of us heterosexuals accept and fully endorse the recent phenomenon of gay civil partnerships or gay weddings' if you prefer..

They allow gay couples to solemnly formalise their relationship which can only be a good and positive thing both for them and society as a whole.

I dont accept that the term husband is homophobic whatsoever and I dont see why it cannot be applied to both male parties to a gay wedding...
and likewise wife could be applied to both female parties in a gay wedding.

[krakhead]

It has been mentioned earlier in this thread that this could very well be an attempt to 'divide and conquer' - and the result here appears to be just that!

Making the generalisation that people who visit this forum are in someway 'awakened' to what appears to be going on around us and the attempts to control the population I'm (personally) finding some of the comments here to be quite disturbing.

To give my 'two cents' - homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice. Homosexuality should be considered as 'normal' human trait, albeit a more rarely occurring one than heterosexuality. Try to think of it in terms of left/right handedness. In nature, a homosexual coupling could not bear children, but there would be nothing to stop them being involved in the shared raising of children in a familial/tribal setting.

So saying that, if a child needs a home, I have not heard a convincing argument as to why a homosexual couple could not more than adequately care for that child or should be necessarily be chosen as a 'second-best' placement when compared to a 'normal' couple.

But I cannot fathom how on earth the variety of terms used in describing members of a family unit are in any way 'homophobic'! The whole idea should be laughed out of schools ASAP, the creation of a culture of homogenised terms such as 'partner' do a disservice to the whole of human-kind - celebrate (y)our differences! Celebrate the differences between each of us, both as individuals and as tribes. 'Average'-ness and 'normal'-ness do not exist except in mathematics!

[kingmonkey]

Rustic, I'm not getting into this argument any further, because you just want everyone to agree. I don't have a problem with gay people or anyone else ; but on the other hand I'm not going to back down and say that words like husband and wife etc should be changed for the minority by the majority to accommodate their views. You have a right to go through life doing as you please, so does everyone else. So why should "everyone else", unfortunately for you in this case, the majority of people who don't agree with you, change their societal structure? There are things in society that I don't agree with, but I don't expect society itself to change and embrace me. So I stand by my point, if you're different in this society it's tough shit and you need a thick skin. I'm not full of bile, I just disagree with you.
Have you ever thought that it might be more appropriate for people to embrace "husband and husband" or "wife and wife" or whatever you'd prefer as new titles, than to start trying to ban the existing ones? You're the minority after all. Until the majority of the population turn gay, i say these traditional names and titles remain. You used the term democracy; in democracy majority rules and it's not always a good rule,but that's how it is.

P.S. I don't deny you the right to do anything. I'm not against gay people having equal rights, raising kids, getting married or anything else.

[om_shanti]

i opine that whenever there is a "ban" (ie of language/certain words)...it is clearly about control.
shrinking the way we express, give thought, meaning and diversity....
i overlook the posts that seem to be provocative personal attackes (eg rustic).
husband and wife, gay partner...whatever.
sometimes it is necessary to INVENT language for the current vernacular.
same sex relationships are part of our cultural history.
eckharte tolle states that such beings have a more enlightened view as they are able to see outside the box, so to speak.
i have same sex relationships as this is who my soul is drawn to, and let me tell you that it is not so "easy". i often hear people say "i don't have a problem with gay people".
i feel that discrimination/shame also runs deep in our culture.
i have to consciously work at my own deeply ingrained patterns of lack of self acceptance and self worth (the brushes of shame that still arise...).

yes, what you write montag resonates with me in that these new rules can be seen as a tool to dismantle the family unit.
yet the family unit is also steeped in patriarchy where historically women were enslaved, owned and poorly treated.
we still carry vestiges of this.
of controlling others.
the unit of marriage is about possession and control.
it is ironic that gay people desire this.
this is rather a complex issue....just offering my views here....

[the obliterati]

I just posted this comment in another thread, but the more I look the more places on this forum it seems necessary to remind people:

"Divide and conquer, the messages are everywhere. Every time we are invited to look upon another being as "other" than us, it's a clear sign of divide and conquer, insanity programming. Any time we are encouraged to split humanity into groups based upon any aspect, that's the time to fight back even more strongly against the divide and conquer programming."

I've seen too many people get suckered into this kind of thinking and I have to say that for people who are supposedly paying attention to Icke's message, It's sad and disappointing to see. Hating gays, Jewish people, republicans, the previous poster on the forum, or whomever, is just buying more and more into the bad programming which generates and fuels the NWO. Make no mistake. :(

[numbersix]

Quote 'the unit of marriage is about possession and control.
it is ironic that gay people desire this.'

I tend to disagree that marriage has to be about possession and control.

Although I am sure there are some marriages like that (probably more hetrosexual ones than same sex ones), I am lucky to be in a marriage where we are both fairly equal both in our opinions, decisions and deeds. After almost 20 years we still love each other as much as when we first met and we rarely if ever argue.
Essentially, happiness comes from within as well as from others - in other words to find happiness with someone else you first need to be happy in yourself...

[dmessick]

The word police are getting out of control. Next thing you know 'white' people will be known as peach colored. :confused:

[beldazar]

lol, what happens when you get a suntan? People will have to be graded on what shade and hue, and what do you get called when you blush? Bloody silly eh? :D

[rustic]

Rustic, I'm not getting into this argument any further, because you just want everyone to agree. I don't have a problem with gay people or anyone else ; but on the other hand I'm not going to back down and say that words like husband and wife etc should be changed for the minority by the majority to accommodate their views. You have a right to go through life doing as you please, so does everyone else. So why should "everyone else", unfortunately for you in this case, the majority of people who don't agree with you, change their societal structure? There are things in society that I don't agree with, but I don't expect society itself to change and embrace me. So I stand by my point, if you're different in this society it's tough shit and you need a thick skin. I'm not full of bile, I just disagree with you.
Have you ever thought that it might be more appropriate for people to embrace "husband and husband" or "wife and wife" or whatever you'd prefer as new titles, than to start trying to ban the existing ones? You're the minority after all. Until the majority of the population turn gay, i say these traditional names and titles remain. You used the term democracy; in democracy majority rules and it's not always a good rule,but that's how it is.

P.S. I don't deny you the right to do anything. I'm not against gay people having equal rights, raising kids, getting married or anything else.

You said right at the beginning that you're not going to get any further in to this argument and then you start blabbing rubbish again.

I hear you, you're going to do and say what you want. Good for you.

You have no idea who the majority is btw because most gay people are too repressed to come out. Don't preach that you're a majority...you don't know that.

And no, I think 'Husband and Husband' is dumb. Marriage is dumb. Religion is dumb.

You are full of bile.

And you're really boring.

[montag]

You are full of bile.

And you're really boring.
Rustic you do yourself no favors here by using language like this, please stick to the topic without the insults..

montag

[kingmonkey]

You have no idea who the majority is btw because most gay people are too repressed to come out. Don't preach that you're a majority...you don't know that.



LMFAO! Now you think everyone is gay!

You're right, I did say I wasn't gonna get involved, but you talk that much crap I can't help it.

P.S. Why do you keep bringing religion up? I'm not religious and I never mentioned it.

"full of bile"... you like that phrase don't you? Although using it against me is ridiculous. If you think i'm full of bile you must've had a pretty easy life so far.

[esse]

It has been mentioned earlier in this thread that this could very well be an attempt to 'divide and conquer' - and the result here appears to be just that!

Making the generalisation that people who visit this forum are in someway 'awakened' to what appears to be going on around us and the attempts to control the population I'm (personally) finding some of the comments here to be quite disturbing.

To give my 'two cents' - homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice. Homosexuality should be considered as 'normal' human trait, albeit a more rarely occurring one than heterosexuality. Try to think of it in terms of left/right handedness. In nature, a homosexual coupling could not bear children, but there would be nothing to stop them being involved in the shared raising of children in a familial/tribal setting.

So saying that, if a child needs a home, I have not heard a convincing argument as to why a homosexual couple could not more than adequately care for that child or should be necessarily be chosen as a 'second-best' placement when compared to a 'normal' couple.

But I cannot fathom how on earth the variety of terms used in describing members of a family unit are in any way 'homophobic'! The whole idea should be laughed out of schools ASAP, the creation of a culture of homogenised terms such as 'partner' do a disservice to the whole of human-kind - celebrate (y)our differences! Celebrate the differences between each of us, both as individuals and as tribes. 'Average'-ness and 'normal'-ness do not exist except in mathematics!

Great Post Krakhead - you write with a consideration so deep it brought up aspects the rest of us had missed. Lovely, I like what you said about Left Handed - Right Handed Normal and about same sex couples having their own husbands and wives, very commonsense and it brings this whole issue into even clearer focus. I too think we should celebrate the differences, there are so many ways over the past 2 decades or so we've been homogenized - When I think of my generation and how we've been programmed, we became so androgynous in the 90's - we girls were all wearing cargo pants and sneering at guys if they tried to be gentlemen and open a door for us or something, being tough and every bit as good as the boys and gender competition seemed to be all important, not saying that women can't or shouldn't do whatever, it was just a heavily promoted mindset that's all - and when I consider it's real purpose and agenda, I realize how much it has stripped from us - how strained and confused our roles have become, and how - while purporting to liberate us, it has impovershed and constrained us. We went from a world where women were cared for , looked after - where the family was important and supported. There is nothing wrong in this - sure - there were problems in the 50's and posession and control and patriarchy is a huge problem, but the solution is not for us to all become G.I. Jane or something - totally independent tough warriors that don't really need anybody, you know the stereotype. There are obviously Pro's and Cons to these role models, it's not so black and white, but why have they changed SO DRASTICALLY - and why are they so heavily promoted, and generally - knowing the way things are, one has to think about this. It was only 30 -40 years or so ago, when our role models were people like Marilyn Monroe, Dolly Parton even, Sophia Loren, Elizabeth Taylor... These women were also warriors, incredibly powerful characters who had without question the adoration and admiration of their men, and audience. The difference is they did this with the power of their femininity - The attraction and allure of their sex - NOT by competing with and trying to outdo or be men. There are differences, and I think my generation has forgotten largely what the power of a woman really is - Though I guess some of the more recent glamorization of women in the Hip Hop R&B scene has done a bit to bring that back. Still though, even this message comes through as a objectification of physical beauty so much more than those old characters, who were so sharp, strong and wily with their intelligence and passion.
I know I'm going on a bit here, but these types of issues I think are integral to us, and it is with very slick psychology that those at the top of the pyramid undermine our health, our relationships, our families and so our happiness. I believe human relationships are paramount in life - and that this is the first point of attack for these groups. To undermine this, is to destabilize our very core, we then become weak and open to all manner of other attack.
Anyway, don't want to run on too long - I could go into the beauty of the male sex and it's differences, how this role and nature has become confused and weakened... As far as the gay and lesbian friends I have known, they too are unique and different, generally they are a real hoot to be with, unconventional - a bit wild and usually highly sensitive and caring individuals. This is only a generalization of course. I also agree with the idea that we need to stick together and not get into this argumentative - taking sides and setting up camp behavior. Too often I see this forum being used as a vehicle for arrogance and fighting and putting one another down - in my view, we are lucky to have a place we can so openly share ideas that are so far reaching and contraversial - I'd love to keep it supportive - and for people to remember that we're here to debate and talk and learn from one another, and that a debate is very different from an argument, it is a discourse built on openness and respect and much good can come from it.