Masons: Personal Experience

[critical_analysis]

There is a lot of back and forth in these forums regarding the good and bad of Masonry. Non-Masons tend to refer to things they have read, which Masons generally deny. Masons tend to give a positively glowing account of what it means to be a Mason.
Does anyone have any real life, up close experience of masons?
I personally know several, though I know one particularly well. I have known the guy for years and would have to say out of my whole circle of friends he is the most disingenuous of them all. At first glance you would think he is the most upstanding, yet if you knew him well you would know this to be an act. He seems and acts like a proper gentleman but when he lets down his guard it is like there is a heartless monster waiting to get out.
This guy has Mason’s through-out his family and even when we were pretty young we would see certain books relating to Masonry in his room. For me he provides the strongest basis for my opinions on Masonry, all the stuff I have read online is simply supportive material. Anyone else have any real life experiences to share?

[danielson23uk]

There is a lot of back and forth in these forums regarding the good and bad of Masonry. Non-Masons tend to refer to things they have read, which Masons generally deny. Masons tend to give a positively glowing account of what it means to be a Mason.
Does anyone have any real life, up close experience of masons?
I personally know several, though I know one particularly well. I have known the guy for years and would have to say out of my whole circle of friends he is the most disingenuous of them all. At first glance you would think he is the most upstanding, yet if you knew him well you would know this to be an act. He seems and acts like a proper gentleman but when he lets down his guard it is like there is a heartless monster waiting to get out.
This guy has Mason’s through-out his family and even when we were pretty young we would see certain books relating to Masonry in his room. For me he provides the strongest basis for my opinions on Masonry, all the stuff I have read online is simply supportive material. Anyone else have any real life experiences to share?

Yes. Let's grossly generalise and tar everyone with the same brush.
Do you know I knew a 'Black' once. Lovely bloke, I couldn't be more surprised!!!:mad::mad::mad:

[mike martin]

Well I would counter your opinion with me. I did my growing up in the South London of the early 1980s all fighting (Skinheads -v- Mods and Millwall -v- Charlton), National Front, British Movement and not getting on well with people of colour. I could very easily have turned out like my Dad.

However, when I joined Freemasonry I changed and left all of that behind me. My whole outlook on life and other people changed.

However, I can see that for some the change might not be as thorough and old habits could come through from time to time.

Mike

[critical_analysis]

Chill out guys!
While generalising can be a dangerous thing to do, is it not also true that it is better to build your opinions on your own real life experiences rather than what you have read on the internet?

p.s. That sound more like SE London, Mike. I also grew up there ;) Maybe you are the fella I know :eek:

[thetonic]

Yes i know a few masons... Masons are just people like everyone else, some good some bad, some smart, some dumb, some nice and polite, some rude assholes... Its like asking whats your take on Jewish people? Or whats your experience with catholics? Same question, different mask.

Edit: Although i would have to agree with your first post. The mason that I know the best, I am equally unimpressed with his state of consciousness and perception.

[critical_analysis]

Yes i know a few masons... Masons are just people like everyone else, some good some bad, some smart, some dumb, some nice and polite, some rude assholes... Its like asking whats your take on Jewish people? Or whats your experience with catholics? Same question, different mask.

I don’t think it is like asking for opinions on a race at all. You are born into whatever race you are, you choose to join the Masons. Very different things. Surely you can see that? The fact is my own experience gives me a somewhat negative view, this certainly does not mean it is a negative organisation. I posed the question with an open mind and would be grateful of any feedback, be it good bad or indifferent. I also think it is far better to discuss Masonry based on people’s personal experience rather than on information they have read on the internet. Real life experience beats what you read on the internet every time. If 95% of the people have negative experiences, it stops being a generalisation and starts being a trend.

So 0 for 2 guys, thus far 100% bad feedback...

[thetonic]

I don’t think it is like asking for opinions on a race at all. You are born into whatever race you are, you choose to join the Masons. Very different things. Surely you can see that? The fact is my own experience gives me a somewhat negative view, this certainly does not mean it is a negative organisation. I posed the question with an open mind and would be grateful of any feedback, be it good bad or indifferent. I also think it is far better to discuss Masonry based on people’s personal experience rather than on information they have read on the internet. Real life experience beats what you read on the internet every time. If 95% of the people have negative experiences, it stops being a generalisation and starts being a trend.

So 0 for 2 guys, thus far 100% bad feedback...

Jewish and Catholic is not a race they are religions.. I thought you were supposed to analyze things critically?

[critical_analysis]

Doh! True I didn't read that as well as I should have. However regarding Jews it is debateable at least and I was a Catholic before I knew what one was so while I accept I was wrong they are still very different to being a Mason.

[thetonic]

Doh! True I didn't read that as well as I should have. However regarding Jews it is debateable at least and I was a Catholic before I knew what one was so while I accept I was wrong they are still very different to being a Mason.

Different , but i doubt as different as you think...

[critical_analysis]

Different , but i doubt as different as you think...
Hmm a strange statement. It not only suggests that you know the complete ins and outs of Masonry, Judaism and Catholicism but also what I think lol.

[mike martin]

p.s. That sound more like SE London, Mike. I also grew up there ;) Maybe you are the fella I know :eek:

It was indeed SE London, the environs of SE3 to be precise and I don't mean lovely posh Blackheath. I'm sure if it was me you'd have told me I have mentioned that I use my own name having no need of "nom de plumes" like some koff

Mike

[jimmi]

Keeping to the intention of this thread I will share some of my personal experiences of freemasons. I was once made 'redundant' from a job, during the bad old Thatcherdays, freemasons were in charge, and a freemason took my place. A freemason I know very well did not attend his mother's funeral, he had booked to go on holiday, it was inconvenient to alter his plans. The last time I asked one if he was a freemason (three weeks ago) he denied it.
And for the more metaphysical minded, the last time I was in a 'lodge' I could feel the lifeforce being sucked out of me, it was the 'coldest' place that I have ever had the misfortune to find myself in.
Nobody enters freemasonry voluntarily with an understanding of what it's really all about, and only the strongest of men leave, and live with the consequences, once they do understand.

[chrism]

Nobody enters freemasonry voluntarily with an understanding of what it's really all about, and only the strongest of men leave, and live with the consequences, once they do understand.

While I can sympathise with your experiences with individual masons (and also with the lodge being a cold place - we have not had out heating working for ages and there is a nasty draught coming through the door) I must say I disagree with all of the points you make in the paragraph quoted above.

I and everyone I know entered freemasonry expecting different things, but I and many of my 'brothers' have come to find exactly what we expected - a slightly eclectic mix of mostly aging brethren with the ability to snore and tut at the same time, with an imperial mint addiction and varying degrees of success when it comes to a sense of humour. Oh, and lots of ritual, meals and a few drinks too.

The long term aims? It's all about fraternity, friendship and enjoying the company of like minded people, and speaking last night to a senior brother at my lodge (52 years in Masonry, Grand Rank and just made PPSGW for those that know what that means!) and he is enjoying himself as much now as when he joined. The fact is, that while we are seeing many people join our lodge, we have also lost a member this year - he decided the investment of his time was clashing with his family life, and has resigned from the lodge in good standing and with the best wishes of all of the lodge.

In terms of only the strongest leaving - simply not true. When brethren fall by the wayside and lapse from lodge membership (it does happen, unfortunately) they are generally those who find it hard to control their daily life and who lack motivation and self-discipline. Hardly the strongest, would you agree?

Chrism

[danielson23uk]

Yes i know a few masons... Masons are just people like everyone else, some good some bad, some smart, some dumb, some nice and polite, some rude assholes... Its like asking whats your take on Jewish people? Or whats your experience with catholics? Same question, different mask.

Hence my post about generalising about sections of society based on what race, creed, colour or any other denomintaion they are.

Critical_analysis, everyone knows an arsehole. Maybe we should ask the same question of how Freemasons find Conspiracy Theorists. If my only opinion of conspiracy theorists was that of some of the lunacy that Joe Stirling comes out with I'm sure you'd all agree that that would be unfair. But of course you choose only the most unattractive traits of one mason you've had the misfortune to know. I likewise doubt that any one of you on here will be reciting nice anecdotes about having met some good, honest and polite Freemasons on the Icke site.

[danielson23uk]

Nobody enters freemasonry voluntarily with an understanding of what it's really all about, and only the strongest of men leave, and live with the consequences, once they do understand.
I couldn't disagree more with this statement. It is only the strong of heart and mind that challenge the scorn and contempt poured on Freemasonry by people like you to find out for THEMSELVES whether the fraternity really is what it claims.
In my experience the only ones that ever leave are those that join to enhance their own power, financial status or other pecuniary gain. These are the ones that are sorely disappointed having not believed their proposers in the first place. These often also happen to be the arseholes that you guys meet. These are the weak of moral fibre.
Maybe jimmi, the man in question didn't answer because he wasn't anymore having realised the above and was embarrassed to say that he was not man enough to step up to his moral responsibilities.

[truthseeker1980]

Hence my post about generalising about sections of society based on what race, creed, colour or any other denomintaion they are.

Critical_analysis, everyone knows an arsehole. Maybe we should ask the same question of how Freemasons find Conspiracy Theorists. If my only opinion of conspiracy theorists was that of some of the lunacy that Joe Stirling comes out with I'm sure you'd all agree that that would be unfair. But of course you choose only the most unattractive traits of one mason you've had the misfortune to know. I likewise doubt that any one of you on here will be reciting nice anecdotes about having met some good, honest and polite Freemasons on the Icke site.

My ex-girlfriends dad was one and my grandad was one, my ex-gf's dad knew less about them than i do, you are all kept in the dark, the only reason you join is for self development and financial gain.

I have attended a few ladies night/dinner and dances and even been on a masons holiday. Yes most are ordinary folk and like you said most are nice people, most truthseekers on here never think that the average lodge member is a bad person, they have no idea about what they have joined and probably never will. Not sure if you are one of those tho as you seem to be blinded with defending them. What degree are you?

[chrism]

What degree are you?

Here we go again Daniel!

If someone joins a friendly club and then NEVER finds out that SOME of the club members are also involved in a little private secrecy, how does that make the club he joins evil or otherwise contemptible.

If you join a golf club, and three of the other members decide to rob a bank, are you also by definition a bank robber? Is Golf now a criminal activity? Are those people who join a golf club to, er, play golf actually being misled by the 'committee'?

If you join a golf club to play golf, how are you being used as a pawn in some kind of cosmic conspiracy?

And how does some anti-golfer, on a conspiracy forum whose father once played golf and who once went to a golf club for a wedding reception know more about golf gloves, Invitational social nights and the merits of Dunlop balls than you?

Chris

[truthseeker1980]

Why are you lot on here?

[danielson23uk]

My ex-girlfriends dad was one and my grandad was one, my ex-gf's dad knew less about them than i do, you are all kept in the dark, the only reason you join is for self development and financial gain.
That's just not true Truthseeker1980 and just because ex-gf's dad let you rant on about theories you are so accustomed to and looked surprised periodically doesn't mean either you're right or that he agreed. I notice she's now you EX-gf. Hardly surprising if you insist on telling you gf's dad that he's a mere foot soldier in a global conspiracy.

I have attended a few ladies night/dinner and dances and even been on a masons holiday. Yes most are ordinary folk and like you said most are nice people, most truthseekers on here never think that the average lodge member is a bad person, they have no idea about what they have joined and probably never will. Not sure if you are one of those tho as you seem to be blinded with defending them. What degree are you? **bold added by danielson23uk**
Had you paid more attention truthseeker1980 you'd know what degree I am as I have posted it several times. I've also addressed the bollocks that comes up about how I couldn't possibly know due to my rank. For your information I'm a PM. I'm also a member of the A&AR. I have close connections to incredibly senior Craft masons and the A&AR. As for why I'm blinded with defending them, that's because I take issue with people persecuting groups of society that they neither know anything about nor want to learn. I suggest you go back to your ex-gf's dad and say "Sorry I was a precocious little prick. Show me what it's all about, I want to learn rather than make assumption because I am a Truth Seeker."

[danielson23uk]

Why are you lot on here?

To help people like you to Seek the Truth Truthseeker1980.

[barney_rubble]

Here we go again Daniel!

If someone joins a friendly club and then NEVER finds out that SOME of the club members are also involved in a little private secrecy, how does that make the club he joins evil or otherwise contemptible.

If you join a golf club, and three of the other members decide to rob a bank, are you also by definition a bank robber? Is Golf now a criminal activity? Are those people who join a golf club to, er, play golf actually being misled by the 'committee'?

If you join a golf club to play golf, how are you being used as a pawn in some kind of cosmic conspiracy?

And how does some anti-golfer, on a conspiracy forum whose father once played golf and who once went to a golf club for a wedding reception know more about golf gloves, Invitational social nights and the merits of Dunlop balls than you?

Chris


Duh --- Because the anti-golfer read about it.

[truthseeker1980]

That's just not true Truthseeker1980 and just because ex-gf's let you rant on about theories you are so accustomed to and looked surprised periodically doesn't mean either you're right or that he agreed. I notice she's now you EX-gf. Hardly surprising if you insist on telling you gf's dad that he's a mere foot soldier in a global conspiracy.



Had you paid more attention truthseeker1980 you'd know what degree I am as I have posted it several times. I've also addressed the bollocks that comes up about how I couldn't possibly know due to my rank. For your information I'm a PM. I'm also a member of the A&AR. I have close connections to incredibly senior Craft masons and the A&AR. As for why I'm blinded with defending them, that's because I take issue with people persecuting groups of society that they neither know anything about nor want to learn. I suggest you go back to your ex-gf's dad and say "Sorry I was a precocious little prick. Show me what it's all about, I want to learn rather than make assumption because I am a Truth Seeker."

The only person making assumptions is you!!!

There was no need for that you aint a very nice person, I never once talked about any theories with him. I asked him what he thought the reason for masons are and why he was a Mason. I asked all the masons i met, they are all nice people I have never said anything bad about them, i am not attacking the cult you joined. I posted it as you had previuosly said no-one on here will say anything nice about masons, so i do and you attack me. NICE GUY! I have from previous experience followed my intuition and noticed a more sinister side to your cult, from my own and others research and the companies attached to lodges, all lodges seem to be involved with printing i wonder why that is?

Why would i pay attention?

I aint intersted in a mason who is so sad he spends his time on a forum which is part of a site which investigates official stories. I would learn about your bloody cult before defending them, i bet you have done no research and believe ererything your masters tell you.

[chrism]

I aint intersted in a mason who is so sad he spends his time on a forum which is part of a site which investigates official stories. I would learn about your bloody cult before defending them, i bet you have done no research and believe ererything your masters tell you.

Yep - a reincarnation of Sheeple, by any chance??

I have a question for all masons out there, but I won't listen to any mason sad enough to post answers to my question...

Great attitude there!

[danielson23uk]

The only person making assumptions is you!!!

There was no need for that you aint a very nice person, I never once talked about any theories with him. I asked him what he thought the reason for masons are and why he was a Mason. I asked all the masons i met, they are all nice people I have never said anything bad about them, i am not attacking the cult you joined. I posted it as you had previuosly said no-one on here will say anything nice about masons, so i do and you attack me. NICE GUY! I have from previous experience followed my intuition and noticed a more sinister side to your cult, from my own and others research and the companies attached to lodges, all lodges seem to be involved with printing i wonder why that is?

Why would i pay attention?

I aint intersted in a mason who is so sad he spends his time on a forum which is part of a site which investigates official stories. I would learn about your bloody cult before defending them, i bet you have done no research and believe ererything your masters tell you.
LOL. Oh poor you! Diddums, did the nasty mason answer back?:(
You use terms like 'Cult' and 'Sinister' and expect that your rhetoric will go unchallenged.

the only reason you join is for self development and financial gain.
You make dumb arsed assumptions like this above and have the bollox to claim to be the victim?
I have from previous experience followed my intuition and noticed a more sinister side to your cult, from my own and others research and the companies attached to lodges, all lodges seem to be involved with printing i wonder why that is?
What you mean is the members of the only LOdge you know are printers. Well there's a surprise! If they're all friends in printing they well be all members of the same Lodge. My Lodge is mainly construction workers. There are health care professionals in one Lodge. It means nothing other than your "research" involves you talking to members of one Lodge.
You're making yourself look silly. Your post was never intended to praise individual masons and believe me it's not nice to be told that we're ALL ignorant to the truth that is only apparent to a nob like you. So don't play victim now.

[truthseeker1980]

I aint arguing with you, you are making assumptions again, you know nothing about anything it seems. You make assumptions about where i get my information from and assumptions about who and what i know.

I was trying to be nice and actually sort of stick up for masons, as in the consipracy world you are given a bit of a hard time, i thought i'd try and show new truthseekers that you lot aint that bad and know a lot but well the proof is in the pudding.

You are wasting your time and mine.

[the guy in pink]

I would learn about your bloody cult before defending them, i bet you have done no research and believe ererything your masters tell you.

You know, on the day we join Masonry we are all urged to "Make a daily advancement in Masonic knowledge"
Some of us try, and do a lot of reading and asking around. Most of stay with it for years. I joined 28 years ago (come Saturday) and still I try to improve my Masonic knowlege. That's why I get to visit places like this.

Seeker I know from my own research, I am not a member of a bloody cult , unless you defination of "Cult" is : Any group I do not like.

[danielson23uk]

I aint arguing with you, you are making assumptions again, you know nothing about anything it seems. You make assumptions about where i get my information from and assumptions about who and what i know.

I was trying to be nice and actually sort of stick up for masons, as in the consipracy world you are given a bit of a hard time, i thought i'd try and show new truthseekers that you lot aint that bad and know a lot but well the proof is in the pudding.

You are wasting your time and mine.

Your post was not supportive don't start back tacking truthseeker1980. Have the courage to at least defend yourself.
You made statements of fact that people only join masonry for material gain and that the ones you'd met knew less than you. That is of course, if you are right in the first place because otherwise it means you talked bollox to a lot of masons and they quite politely replied:
"Really, hmmmm well I never knew that!!"

Thank you for at least saying that we're not bad people. But don't patronise us that we don't know what you do because that's worse than insulting us.
Attending a few social events does not suitably make you an expert on a society you're not in enough to make statements of fact like those above.

[truthseeker1980]

FFS you try and make them be seen in a better light and they just make it worse for themselves.

You dont know what i know, i dont know what you know. Arguement over.

I only called it a cult to hit a nerve as danielson23uk went into one for nothing so i retaliated.

I still dont understand why you lot are on here though.

[danielson23uk]

FFS you try and make them be seen in a better light and they just make it worse for themselves.

You dont know what i know, i dont know what you know. Arguement over.

I only called it a cult to hit a nerve as danielson23uk went into one for nothing so i retaliated.

I still dont understand why you lot are on here though.

As I said in the PM TS, I don't need your support, only your objective and open mind to converse with.

[chrism]

I still dont understand why you lot are on here though.

I am here for the same reason many other are - general discussion and contact with other people!

I can go to a freemason forum and spend all day agreeing with them about things we all already know, or I could spend time further afield conversing with many people of wildly varying backgrounds and opinions. I can also share my perspective of what seems like a common interest - "masonry (love it or hate it?)".

I don't expect people to agree with what I am saying here or anywhere else for that matter, but reasoned debate, discussion and consideration from all parties are aspects of these discussions which I enjoy.

I am an average Joe (not Stirling!), who also happens to be a mason.

Why are you here? To find people to agree with your wild concepts and pre-conceived ideas of an institution you are not a member of?

C

[edelweiss pirate]

Awww... the masons derailed your thread... and got you cross and upset truthseeker..

I think that's the answer to your question.

The only ones they won't treat with utter contempt will be other masons...

there would have been a time I would have delighted in cutting the mason maggots with stinging prose... but why bother, I'm tired of playing a powered up pacman chasing silly ghosts.

Enjoy the forum, since you remain here largely unchallenged feel free to make a nasty little shit nest right here in secret societies... oh you already did. Ah well.

The one who falls in shit gets up and cleans himself off we call progress. The one who lays in there and rolls in it is called a pig.

So long mason piggies.

[chrism]

Awww... the masons derailed your thread... and got you cross and upset truthseeker..

I think that's the answer to your question.

The only ones they won't treat with utter contempt will be other masons...

there would have been a time I would have delighted in cutting the mason maggots with stinging prose... but why bother, I'm tired of playing a powered up pacman chasing silly ghosts.

Enjoy the forum, since you remain here largely unchallenged feel free to make a nasty little shit nest right here in secret societies... oh you already did. Ah well.

The one who falls in shit gets up and cleans himself off we call progress. The one who lays in there and rolls in it is called a pig.

So long mason piggies.

Your departure will be a loss to us all. Thanks for all your creative input.

Missing you,

Chrism


BTW - did you read my last post, or for that matter, any of the other posts on here?

[danielson23uk]

Awww... the masons derailed your thread... and got you cross and upset truthseeker..

I think that's the answer to your question.

The only ones they won't treat with utter contempt will be other masons...

there would have been a time I would have delighted in cutting the mason maggots with stinging prose... but why bother, I'm tired of playing a powered up pacman chasing silly ghosts.

Enjoy the forum, since you remain here largely unchallenged feel free to make a nasty little shit nest right here in secret societies... oh you already did. Ah well.

The one who falls in shit gets up and cleans himself off we call progress. The one who lays in there and rolls in it is called a pig.

So long mason piggies.

Yawn!!

[chrism]

The only ones they won't treat with utter contempt will be other masons...


I reserve contempt for those who deserve it.

I know that a couple of the posters on here saw the rough edge of my electronic tongue, but I think that most have come to expect civility and reasonable language and conduct from us. I can think of many forum members that I would be happy to meet up with for a drink and a frank, honest discussion, including Manchurian Candidate, Kblood, Icke & Ham and even Greenleaf (after the first couple of posts anyway!).

Don't mistake the fact that most freemasons treat YOU with contempt with freemasons treating all NON MASONS with contempt.

Maybe YOU deserve nothing better.

C

[danielson23uk]

I reserve contempt for those who deserve it.

I know that a couple of the posters on here saw the rough edge of my electronic tongue, but I think that most have come to expect civility and reasonable language and conduct from us. I can think of many forum members that I would be happy to meet up with for a drink and a frank, honest discussion, including Manchurian Candidate, Kblood, Icke & Ham and even Greenleaf (after the first couple of posts anyway!).

Don't mistake the fact that most freemasons treat YOU with contempt with freemasons treating all NON MASONS with contempt.

Maybe YOU deserve nothing better.

C

Contempt begets contempt. Although your avatar appears accurate..
"I know nothing!"

[mike martin]

My ex-girlfriends dad was one and my grandad was one, my ex-gf's dad knew less about them than i do, you are all kept in the dark, the only reason you join is for self development and financial gain.
Oh my what an arrogant thing to write!

To assume that these people knew less than you because you know about Conspiracy and what they may have told you was different to what you think you know.

Hardly the kind of thing an actual truth seeker would ever say, I would have thought that a truth seeker would arrive with an open mind and listen rather than tell.

Those blokes probably thought you were a bit of a twerp

I have attended a few ladies night/dinner and dances and even been on a masons holiday. Yes most are ordinary folk and like you said most are nice people, most truthseekers on here never think that the average lodge member is a bad person, they have no idea about what they have joined and probably never will. Not sure if you are one of those tho as you seem to be blinded with defending them. What degree are you?
Ah the old fall-back point. So what do you know about Freemaosnry that you haven't been fed by conpiracy theories?

Mike

[mike martin]

Why are you lot on here?

Been covered before on the topic that started our little visit, why not have a read eh, truth seeker

Mike

[mike martin]

The only ones they won't treat with utter contempt will be other masons...
A very crass statement, who here do I treat with contempt let alone utter contempt.

Mike

[critical_analysis]

Critical_analysis, everyone knows an arsehole. Maybe we should ask the same question of how Freemasons find Conspiracy Theorists. If my only opinion of conspiracy theorists was that of some of the lunacy that Joe Stirling comes out with I'm sure you'd all agree that that would be unfair. But of course you choose only the most unattractive traits of one mason you've had the misfortune to know. I likewise doubt that any one of you on here will be reciting nice anecdotes about having met some good, honest and polite Freemasons on the Icke site.
You can start any threads you want about conspiracy theorists for all I care, I do not even know what one is and I am certainly not one. I guess you would refer to every non mason on this forum as a conspiracy theorist?
The thing is this forum is made up of people with all kinds of beliefs and idea's, there is not one solid group to be found. Where as with you masons you are very clearly all singing from the same hymn sheet so it is a very different situation. I find it amusing that you guys get so offended by people’s feelings towards Masonry, particularly because you claim it is nothing more than a social club, yet you defend it with the same vigour and anger as someone who was defending their religion. (Of-course we know it is not a religion though, just a group of guys that like to invest their time in charitable activities ;) ). I should add, I don’t think the way you have responded to truth seeker was very charitable, in-fact I found it very disrespectful.
I see you guys are getting pretty upset with the responses on this thread but you need to relax. I asked for personal experiences and this is what people have been giving. Agreed, a whole organisation should not be judged by the actions of one of its members but if 50 people reply and they all have negative experiences with Masons then we have some evidence that while being anecdotal is definitely worth something. For the record I don’t expect you to agree with or respect the views put forward but your acceptance is not required to be honest. These are peoples real experiences and are more valuable than most of the nonsense that gets passed off as information on here and the internet in general.

[mike martin]

The thing is this forum is made up of people with all kinds of beliefs and idea's, there is not one solid group to be found. Where as with you masons you are very clearly all singing from the same hymn sheet so it is a very different situation.
Well we would be our common interest is Freemasonry, that's why we're here because someone from your Forum tried to start inter-Forum problems. Me personally am still enjoying it, when I stop I'll just leave.
I find it amusing that you guys get so offended by people’s feelings towards Masonry, particularly because you claim it is nothing more than a social club, yet you defend it with the same vigour and anger as someone who was defending their religion. (Of-course we know it is not a religion though, just a group of guys that like to invest their time in charitable activities ;) ).
Oh come now we have all admitted that it isn't just a social club.

I should add, I don’t think the way you have responded to truth seeker was very charitable, in-fact I found it very disrespectful.
I didn't think my responses were, I was just a bit miffed that he didn't bother reading anything that went before.

I see you guys are getting pretty upset with the responses on this thread but you need to relax. I asked for personal experiences and this is what people have been giving. Agreed, a whole organisation should not be judged by the actions of one of its members but if 50 people reply and they all have negative experiences with Masons then we have some evidence that while being anecdotal is definitely worth something. For the record I don’t expect you to agree with or respect the views put forward but your acceptance is not required to be honest. These are peoples real experiences and are more valuable than most of the nonsense that gets passed off as information on here and the internet in general.
As I keep on saying, taking your info and basing your opinion on one source will only ever give you a one-sided and unbalanced opinion. Me I've read and own hundreds of books about Freemasonry both for and against and written by both non and Masons, I can see the discrepencies.

If you posed the question on a neutral Forum (where everyone doesn't feel honour-bound to prove something against us) I would bet your response (probably in the 100s) would be something like "the Freemasons? dunno mate!"

Mike

[critical_analysis]

I didn't think my responses were, I was just a bit miffed that he didn't bother reading anything that went before.

I was directly responding to Danielsons post with regards to that.

As I keep on saying, taking your info and basing your opinion on one source will only ever give you a one-sided and unbalanced opinion.

How are various peoples personal experiences one source? This seems to assume that we all have experience of the same person :confused:



If you posed the question on a neutral Forum (where everyone doesn't feel honour-bound to prove something against us) I would bet your response (probably in the 100s) would be something like "the Freemasons? dunno mate!"

Mike
Hmmm by that rationale we shouldn't post anything here should we? Should we in-fact be searching for this mystical "neutral" forum you speak of and not express any opinions until we find it? I suspect that if you posted this on many, many forums you would get pretty negative responses, though they may well be based on what people have read rather then experienced.
The fact is, basing your opinions on the experiences of posters on these forums is no worse than basing your opinions on YOUR experiences, in-fact it is surely better. While the posters here may not be keen on Masons generally and could perhaps be regarded as having a bias, you guys undeniably have a bias so we should definitely not base our opinions on anything you say, right?

[mike martin]

I was directly responding to Danielsons post with regards to that.
OK cool

How are various peoples personal experiences one source? This seems to assume that we all have experience of the same person :confused:
Well my point was (seems as if you're missing it on purpose) clarified by the rest of the words. That being on this particular Forum the majority of people are already following an agenda which is against Freemasonry.

Hmmm by that rationale we shouldn't post anything here should we? Should we in-fact be searching for this mystical "neutral" forum you speak of and not express any opinions until we find it? I suspect that if you posted this on many, many forums you would get pretty negative responses, though they may well be based on what people have read rather then experienced.
By a neutral Forum I'm obviously talking about one which is on neither side of the dividing line, I don't know the UK Dog Breeders Forum (just an example) or something where Freemasonry is not a usual topic of converstaion. Then you will get real unbiased and untainted opinions.
The fact is, basing your opinions on the experiences of posters on these forums is no worse than basing your opinions on YOUR experiences, in-fact it is surely better. While the posters here may not be keen on Masons generally and could perhaps be regarded as having a bias, you guys undeniably have a bias so we should definitely not base our opinions on anything you say, right?
Ironically, when it comes to personal opinions about Freemasons I am better placed than most, Mason or not, having personally met several thousand during my 14 years as Mason (I used to travel the country in my old job) and corresponded with several thousand more worldwide due to my role as a Moderator on TFM for nearly 8 years.

Although that's not what i mean, if you ask a loaded question in an arena where everyone (or nearly everyone) believes Freemasons are part of some sinister plot you will get lots of negative responses and vice versa so as a guage of knowledge/opinion the question is worthless here.

The answers will be prejudiced.

Mike

[jimmi]

I believe the intention of this thread was to give us the opprtunity to post and read of peoples personal experiences of freemasons, so far I count four relevant posts out of forty two.

[jacob sladder]

My personal experiences of Freemasons? Over past 23 years: Most good, a few not so good, some obsessed with Masonic rank.
Most kind, some helpful, some rude. One lacking in morals - chucked out of his Lodge in particular and Freemasonry in general.
One Convicted of a crime - again chucked out of his Lodge in particular, and Freemasonry in general. etc. etc. etc.

Bit of an odd question, it's like asking 'Personal experiences of humanity'.

We are only human after all! :p

[chrism]

I believe the intention of this thread was to give us the opprtunity to post and read of peoples personal experiences of freemasons, so far I count four relevant posts out of forty two.

And this is not one of them.

Nor is this.

C

[thetonic]

My personal experiences of Freemasons? Over past 23 years: Most good, a few not so good, some obsessed with Masonic rank.
Most kind, some helpful, some rude. One lacking in morals - chucked out of his Lodge in particular and Freemasonry in general.
One Convicted of a crime - again chucked out of his Lodge in particular, and Freemasonry in general. etc. etc. etc.

Bit of an odd question, it's like asking 'Personal experiences of humanity'.

We are only human after all! :p

Exactly ! This was my initial point. Although it is a valid topic of discussion as long as people dont take the compliments or insults personally. Just because one is a Freemason, does not make him/her special, above the law, evil, intelligent, indifferent or other. Freemasons are people just like everyone else.

[thetonic]

Does anyone like my handiwork?

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh16/thetonic/5pointbabe.gif

[barney_rubble]

Does anyone like my handiwork?

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh16/thetonic/5pointbabe.gif

This is your personal experience with masonry???

[thetonic]

This is your personal experience with masonry???

oops , possibly posted on the wrong thread, sorry:o

[barney_rubble]

oops , possibly posted on the wrong thread, sorry:o

No! No, I think you maybe trying to tell us something.

A believe posting that item on this thread might be a freudian slip giving us a glimpse of your true inner self.

Even in your opps statement you said "possibly" - how telling is that?

IMO.

[thetonic]

No! No, I think you maybe trying to tell us something.

A believe posting that item on this thread might be a freudian slip giving us a glimpse of your true inner self.

Even in your opps statement you said "possibly" - how telling is that?

IMO.

wow , you must be clairvoyant! could you do a reading for me im really starting to question my inner self these days:o How would a Freemason handle , you know , coming out?

[barney_rubble]

wow , you must be clairvoyant! could you do a reading for me im really starting to question my inner self these days:o How would a Freemason handle , you know , coming out?

Sorry I would have to ask you to seek someone 'qualified' to give you a reading or an analysis. This is not my field. I hear you can get a free 'Stress Test' from the Scientologist though.

As for , "comming out", a mason would follow the same path as any other member of society at large. It all depends on how said person feels the people around him would take the news.


Interesting Note:
One of the masonic offences that can lead to a Masonic Trial and possible explusion (as defined in the Constitution for my Grand lodge) is quote:

Masonic Offenses
410. A Masonic Offense is the wilful violation of the laws, usages and customs of Masonry or of Masonic obligation and in particular, and without limiting the generality of the forgoing, when wilfully committed, the following are specific Masonic offences:
(a) ...

(n) To commit adultery or engage in any other sexual immorality;
(o) ...

Hmmm... "other sexual immorality" that is a bit wide open and up for interpretation.

In some countries that could be looking at a women who was not your wife or blood relative. In some places a lot of things would pass. It definitely DOES NOT allow pedophilia as some would lead you to believe.

[mike martin]

wow , you must be clairvoyant! could you do a reading for me im really starting to question my inner self these days:o How would a Freemason handle , you know , coming out?

Wear a pink apron, I suppose:D

Mike

[the guy in pink]

Wear a pink apron, I suppose:D
Mike
I wish I knew how to unload photos here. The very first picture I took when I arrived here in Suriname was of a Masonic Procession. Leading what appeared to be about 10 different constitutions was an all womans Lodge wearing pink aprons and collars.

[barney_rubble]

I wish I knew how to unload photos here. The very first picture I took when I arrived here in Suriname was of a Masonic Procession. Leading what appeared to be about 10 different constitutions was an all womans Lodge wearing pink aprons and collars.

When editing a message use the picture icon - it looks like this:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/editor/insertimage.gif
This will only allow you to post pictures from another web site. So if you have a personal picture you will need to post it on 'myspace', 'facebook', or a personal web site and then link to that picture.

I guess you could post it as your "David Icke Profile picture" or "avatar" but you only get one each of those.

[barney_rubble]

I attended a wonderful Masonic Devine Service last night .
Just to avoid confusion this was a Christian Church service where the public and any/all freemasons are invited to attend but as you know since masons can be of any faith usually only Christian Brothers, their family and any other regular members of the hosting church attend. That said anyone is welcome.

It was held at St. John's United Church with the Rev. Don Gibson(a non-mason) presiding.

It was a wonderful evening and all givings went to the Board of Relief

The follow are the proceedings of the evening.



_________________________________________
St. John's United Church
Hamilton Masonic Districts' Board of Relief
Devine Service

April 27, 2008
7:30PM

ORGAN PRELUDE
"March" G. F. Handel
"Largo" Handel

PROCESSIONAL HYMN "Rejoice, The Lord Is King"
Rejoice the Lord is King!
Your risen Lord adore!
Rejoice, give thanks and sing
and triumph evermore.

Refrain: Lift up your heart, lift up your voice:
rejoice; again I say, rejoice.

Jesus the Saviour reigns,
the God of truth and love;
when he had purged our sins,
he took his seat above. R

God's kingdom cannot fail;
Christ rules o'er earth and heaven;
the keys of death and hell
are to our Jesus given. R

Rejoice in glorious hope,
for Christ, the judge, shall come
to glorify the sanits
for their eternal home

We soon shall hear the archangel's voice;
the trump of God shall sound, rejoice!


WELCOME AND GREETINGThe Rev. Don Gibson
R.W. Bro. David Gibson, President
Hamilton Masonic Districts' Board of Relief

INTROIT "Majesty" Tempus 4

CALL TO WORSHIP
OPENING PRAYER
Almighty God, whose sin Jesus Christ has taught us
that what we do for the least of our brothers and sisters
we do also for him,
give us the will to be the servant of others
as he was the servant of all,
who gave up his life and died for us,
but is alive and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit,
one God, now and forever. Amen


SILENT REFLECTION


LORD'S PRAYER (Spoken)
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory
forever and ever. Amen


PEACE OF CHRIST
HYMN "I, The Lord of Sea and Sky"
I, the Lord of sea and sky,
I have heard my people cry.
All who dwell in dark and sin, My hand will save.
I, who made the stars of night,
I will make their darkness bright.
Who will bear my light to them?
Whom shall I send?

Refrain:
Here I am, Lord. Is it I, Lord?
I have heard you calling in the night.
I will go, Lord, if you lead me.
I will hold your people in my heart.

I, the Lord of snow and rain,
I have borne my people’s pain.
I have wept for love of them.
They turn away.
I will break their hearts of stone,
Give them hearts for love alone.
I will speak my words to them.
Whom shall I send? R

I, the Lord of wind and flame,
I will send the poor and lame.
I will set a feast for them.
My hand will save.
Finest bread I will provide,
'Til their hearts be satisfied.
I will give my life to them.
Whom shall I send? R



Reading Psalm 100 R.W. Bro. Zavar T. Bryamjee
District Deputy Grand Master
Hamilton District 'A'
1: Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.
2: Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing.
3: Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
4: Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
5: For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.



MUSIC "No Man Is An Island" Tempus Chamber Choir
No man is an island, no man stands alone
Each man's joy is joy to me
Each man's grief is my own
We need one another, so I will defend
Each man as my brother
Each man as my friend

No man is an island far out in the blue
We all look to One above
Who our strength doth renew
When I help my brother
Then I know that I plant the seeds
Of friendship that will never die

I saw the people gather
I heard the music start
The song that they were singing
Is ringing in my heart

No man is an island, no man stands alone
Each man's joy is joy to me
Each man's grief is my own
We need one another, so I will defend
Each man as my brother
Each man as my friend



READING Micah 6:6-8 R. W. Bro. Robert J. Brooks
District Deputy Grand Master
Hamilton District 'B'
[6] Wherewith shall I come before the LORD,
and bow myself before the high God?
shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves of a year old?
[7] Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams,
or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my
firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body
for the sin of my soul?
[8] He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and
what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly,
and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?



HYMN "What Does The Lord Require Of You"
What does the Lord require of you?
What does the Lord require of you?

Justice, kindness,
walk humbly with your God.

To seek justice, and love kindness,
and walk humbly with your God.



OFFERING
MUSIC "Hymn To Freedom" Oscar Peterson/Tempus Choal Society
When every heart joins every heart and together yearns for liberty,
that's when we'll be free.
When every hand joins every hand and together molds our destiny,
that's when we'll be free.
Any hour any day, the time soon will come when men will live in dignity,
that's when we'll be free, we will be
When every man joins in our song and together singing harmony,
that's when we'll be free.



DOXOLOGY (Sung as the Ushers come forward)
Praise God from whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him all creatures here below;
Praise Him above ye heavenly host;
Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost.



MUSIC "How Great Thou Art" Tempus 4
O Lord my God, When I in awesome wonder,
Consider all the worlds Thy Hands have made;
I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder,
Thy power throughout the universe displayed.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

When through the woods, and forest glades I wander,
And hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees.
When I look down, from lofty mountain grandeur
And see the brook, and feel the gentle breeze.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing;
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;
That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

When Christ shall come, with shout of acclamation,
And take me home, what joy shall fill my heart.
Then I shall bow, in humble adoration,
And then proclaim: "My God, how great Thou art!"

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!



HYMN "The Day Thou Gavest"
The day thou gavest, Lord, is ended;
the darkness falls at thy behest;
to thee our morning hymns ascended,
thy praise shall sanctify our rest.

We thank the that thy church unsleeping,
while earth rolls onward to light,
through all the world her watch is keeping,
and rest not now by day or night.

As o'er each continent and island
the dawn leads on another day,
the voice of prayer is never silent,
nor dies the strain of praise away.

The sun that bids us rest is waking
our brethren 'neath the western sky,
and hour by hour fresh lips are making
thy wondrous doings heard on high.

So be it, Lord! Thy throne shall never,
like earths's proud empires, pass away;
thy kingdom stands and grows for ever,
till all thy creatures own thy sway.



MUSIC "Here's To His Health In A Song" J. M. Bentley/Soloist - Mr. Frank King
This world is so hard and so stony;
That if a man is to get through,
He'd need have the courage of Nelson,
And plenty of Job's patience too.
But a man who is kind to another
And cheerfully helps him along,
God Bless such a man and a brother,
And here's to his health in a song.

And here's to his health, here's to his health
And here`s to his health in a song.


This life is as cheerless as Winter,
To those who are cold in the heart;
but a man who is warm in his nature,
Bids Winter for ever depart
The ground that he treads on will blossom,
`Till beauty around him shall throng;
God Bless such a man and a brother,
And here's to his health in a song.

And here's to his health; here's to his health
And here's to his health in a song.


As clouds that in sunshine are open,
And silvered by light passing through;
So men who are generous in spirit,
Are blessed by the good deeds they do;
There's nothing like helping another
For getting one's own self along;
Who does this is truly a brother.
And here`s to his health in a song.

And here's to his health; here's to his health
And here`s to his health in a song.



READING Luke 9:1-6 R.W. Bro. R. James Stewart
District Deputy Grand Master
Hamilton District 'C'
[1] Then he called his twelve disciples together,
and gave them power and authority over all devils,
and to cure diseases.
[2] And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God,
and to heal the sick.
[3] And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey,
neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money;
neither have two coats apiece.
[4] And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide,
and thence depart.
[5] And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out
of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a
testimony against them.
[6] And they departed, and went through the towns,
preaching the gospel, and healing every where.



SERMON "IT'S ALL ABOUT?" REV. DON GIBSON



PRAYERS
BENEDICTION



HYMN Masonic Hymn
Now the evening shadows closing.
Warn from toil to peaceful rest;
Mystic arts and rights reposing
Sacred in each faithful breast.

God of Light, whose love unceasing
Doth to all Thy works extend,
Crown our Order with Thy blessing,
Build,-sustain us to the end.

Humbly now we bow before Thee,
Grateful for Thy aid divine;
Everlasting power and glory,
Mighty Architect! be Thine.



POSTLUDE AND RECESSIONAL "Light of the Living God" Paxton

USHERS
w. Bro. Roy Oldfield
V. W. Bro. Dennis Thacher
Rt. W. Bro. Herb Schroeder
W. Bro. Ken Harrower

MARSHALL
W. Bro. Robert Dunn


WELCOME AND APPRECIATION

A warm welcome is extended to you from The Rev. Don Gibson and members of St. John's United Church on this your Spring Devine Service. We pray that you will have a rewarding worship experience. Following the service please join together for a time of refreshment and fellowship in the Social Hall.

The officers and members of Trafalgar Lodge, A.F. & A.M., No. 712, G.R.C. extend thanks to the Minister and congregation of St. John's United Church for the opportunity of holding this Spring Divine Service here at the St. John's United Church.

A special thanks to The Rev. Don Gibson for conducting the service and to our District Deputy Grand Masters for their participation in the readings of Scripture. We also that Mr. Brian Turnbull, our Director of Music. Our thanks to members of the Tempus Choral Society for their music leadership this evening. Tempus is a community choir based at St. John's United Church. Thanks also to Tempus 4 (all members of Tempus). We also thank the members of St. John's United Church Chancel Choir who have joined us this evening.

As well, a hearty thank you to Mr. Frank King for his rendition of "Here's to His Health in a Song".

The Hamilton Masonics Districts' Board of Relief extends thanks and appreciation to Wor. Bro. Ken Harrower, the officers and Members of Trafalgar Lodge A.F & A.M., No. 712, G.R.C. for hosting this service and arranging for the refreshments for our time of fellowship. Finally, thank you to all who attended this evening and for your continuing support of the work of YOUR Board of Relief.



HAMILTON MASONIC DISTRICTS' BOARD OF RELIEF
During the 1860 era the Hamilton Masonics Districts' Board of Relief was in its formative years, providing leadership in establishing this very necessary arm to administer and provide Masonic Charity and Benevolence.

Through the support of the Grand Lodge Committee of Benevolence ant the four city lodges of the period, The Barton Lodge No. 6, The Lodge of Strict Observance No.27, St John's Lodge No. 40 and Acacia Lodge No. 61, funds were provided to the Hamilton Masonics Districts' Board of Relief for extension of aid and financial assistance to needy brethren, their wives, widows, and orphans. At that time each lodge hand and elected representative on the Board to administer the affairs. In subsequent years funds were received from subscribing lodges and proceeds from semi-annual Divine Service.

From the humble beginnings the Board of Relief has grown to include the forty lodges within the Hamilton Districts A, B and C of which each has a representative on the Board. the Board is also a registered charity and maintains burial plots for indigent Masons and their wives in Woodland Cemetery overlooking Hamilton Bay and in Hamilton Cemetery on York Boulevard.

"The objectives of the Hamilton Masonics Districts' Board of Relief shall be the extension of aid and financial assistance to brethren, their families, and other such charitable purposes as the Board shall determine."

In 1978, the phrase "and other such charitable purposes as the Board shall determine." was added to its objectives. In doing so we are able to address a wider field of human needs beyond the purview of masonic relief. Over the past twenty-one years various grants totaling approximately $267,484 have been provided for the relief of distress to the needy, both masonic and no-masonic alike.

During the past year alone, grants have been provided to assist with individuals in circumstances of need $35,751 and various Foodbank Programs and Agencies $3,200.

To the Brethren of Hamilton masonic Districts' A, B and C your support will allow for the continuation of charitable works formulated by our rich heritage.

Information Updated as of March 5, 2008
R. W Bro Kerr
Secretary-Treasurer


______________________________________________

[barney_rubble]

Wow. Nothing.

I was at least expecting someone to say that Freemasonry is now promoting a Christian agenda or at worst that this "Devine Service" proves that Freemasonry is a 'religion'.

Thoughts???

[chrism]

Thoughts???

Reminds me of school days - we had orders of service like that!

Hope you enjoyed it, but for my part not really of great interest - I am not particularly in to organised religion!

Chrism

[astral_girl]

Wow. Nothing.

I was at least expecting someone to say that Freemasonry is now promoting a Christian agenda or at worst that this "Devine Service" proves that Freemasonry is a 'religion'.

Thoughts???

or more like you was expecting us all to think --...ooo them masons are not bad really -they go to church and sing hyms....at a divine service no doubt..........
just like bush wearing his christian mask
while being a member of skull and bones....DEAD fooking christian THAT........
do you honestly think we fall for this bull shit:mad:

[chrism]

or more like you was expecting us all to think --...ooo them masons are not bad really -they go to church and sing hyms....at a divine service no doubt..........
just like bush wearing his christian mask
while being a member of skull and bones....DEAD fooking christian THAT........
do you honestly think we fall for this bull shit:mad:

The title of the thread is 'Masons: personal experience' - I don't see this as off topic.

Since you have already made your mind up, I don't even know why you would read this!

Oh - and you seem to have confused Masonry with Skull & Bones. Masonry is a spiritual journey for most people, and ties in nicely with their religious obligations so although as I said this would not be for me it is a valid post and I should hope welcome here.

Chrism

[barney_rubble]

The title of the thread is 'Masons: personal experience' - I don't see this as off topic.

Since you have already made your mind up, I don't even know why you would read this!

Oh - and you seem to have confused Masonry with Skull & Bones. Masonry is a spiritual journey for most people, and ties in nicely with their religious obligations so although as I said this would not be for me it is a valid post and I should hope welcome here.

Chrism

Thank you for coming to my defense Chrism, I didn't know how to respond.

I am not really that religious of a man. I mean I 'believe' but I am on a bit of a religious journey right now. I am not sure where I will end up.

[twistedconcept]

To help people like you to Seek the Truth Truthseeker1980.

What truth?

[chrism]

What truth?

WTF?

Is this designed purely to start an argument?!? :eek:

Chrism

[twistedconcept]

WTF?

Is this designed purely to start an argument?!? :eek:

Chrism

It's a question. I was asking him what his "truth" is?

Why do you get the impression I'm trying to start an argument? I've simply looked through the thread and quoted something of interest to me.

[marpat]

Chill out guys!
While generalising can be a dangerous thing to do, is it not also true that it is better to build your opinions on your own real life experiences rather than what you have read on the internet?

p.s. That sound more like SE London, Mike. I also grew up there ;) Maybe you are the fella I know :eek:

Good call. There is far too much generalising in this forum. Things seem to be accepted as fact as soon as you get the required quota of believers. And who really trust everything they read anyway?
A lot of people distrust and closed society for no other reason than they don't like not knowing what goes on.

[lightgiver]

Good call. There is far too much generalising in this forum. Things seem to be accepted as fact as soon as you get the required quota of believers. And who really trust everything they read anyway?
A lot of people distrust and closed society for no other reason than they don't like not knowing what goes on.

Maybe you do to?

[diamond dogs]

Met a mason today (typical 'military link' tache) and he was a member of a RAf Lodge (didn't know they existed) he told me that Nelson was a freemason (which is common knowledge) but also that he was shot by a freemason...hadn't heard this before?

[offramp]

Met a mason today (typical 'military link' tache) and he was a member of a RAf Lodge (didn't know they existed) he told me that Nelson was a freemason (which is common knowledge) but also that he was shot by a freemason...hadn't heard this before?
Nelson was not a Freemason. As for the man who shot Nelson - what was his name?

[malkor]

my personal experience of masons ranges from high echelon to the low ranking members.

the one high echelon (i don't know what degree he was) i encountered was when i was young and didn't know about the politics or intrigue of it. my family had become separated during a war and my mother had exhausted every government bureaucracy trying to immigrate to the usa to reunite with my father. in the end it was a mason who 'tweaked' things on both ends to allow this to happen and he didn't ask for anything in return.

the rest of the masons i know as business contacts are members of local chapters. one is a nasty fellow who tries to rip off his fellow lodge mates by selling them sub standard goods, the others are typical people. i have never met anyone else with the kind of power the first guy had.

[skaff]

I have met quite a few masons due to my charity work and, with one significant exception, found them all very approachable and friendly.

This however means absolutely nothing. I might have met the only dozen or so 'good' masons and the rest are bad! That is why this thread is flawed from the outset. Unless the thread ran to thousands all with unique experiences it is hardly a valid poll of masonic behaviour.

[lvia]

I met a famous guy online (no, I will not say who it is because I have a gut feeling I would be targeted if I do.) and when he was in my area we met in person. He was wearing a necklace with the masonic logo on it. Back then I didn't know what it meant, but now I do. He told me he was disappointed because he thought I was black (I'm greek, I guess by my photos he thought I was mulatto due to my skin color) and the conversation sticks in my mind. We talked about mormons, strippers, Billy Corgan, and his own work. Now that I am older I see the connections, and realize this man is very very racist. Why would he, a rich mason, want to meet up with a black woman if he is openly racist?? :confused:

I wonder...

[psquared]

There is a lot of back and forth in these forums regarding the good and bad of Masonry. Non-Masons tend to refer to things they have read, which Masons generally deny. Masons tend to give a positively glowing account of what it means to be a Mason.
Does anyone have any real life, up close experience of masons?
I personally know several, though I know one particularly well. I have known the guy for years and would have to say out of my whole circle of friends he is the most disingenuous of them all. At first glance you would think he is the most upstanding, yet if you knew him well you would know this to be an act. He seems and acts like a proper gentleman but when he lets down his guard it is like there is a heartless monster waiting to get out.
This guy has Mason’s through-out his family and even when we were pretty young we would see certain books relating to Masonry in his room. For me he provides the strongest basis for my opinions on Masonry, all the stuff I have read online is simply supportive material. Anyone else have any real life experiences to share?
I have plenty. Sharing them is pointless.

[nikolai burdy]

My old boss who was a family friend is a Freemason. From my experience he is a normal guy, doesn't seem to have a dark side hahaha, rarely loses his temper (compared to most bosses that have to work with me hahaha).

When I was out of work he gave me a job, when co workers were short of cash he would give them loans etc. He was always honest in business and just a down to earth guy, that liked to meet up with other guys and catch up on the footy etc down the lodge.

In my current job I meet dickheads all the time, to tar everyone with the same brush though isn't fair. I'm sure there are loads of freemasons that are rude and not very nice. But there are plenty more people who aren't freemasons and worse. Don't judge a whole organisation by one or two people.

So from MY humble experience I have only met nice freemasons, but to be fair I've never met one during a full moon hahaha