Leo Zagami

[hagbard_celine]

Project Camelot interview the Italian Illuminati fugitive Leo Zagami:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-111781545695635326&q=leo+zagami&total=153&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

I got the audio version of this and found him hard to follow. It would have been helpful if Zagami had slowed down a little bit and explained a bit more comprehensively. Are all Italians like that? :DI've yet to meet one that isn't!

[ustane]

Oh you've heard it? :confused: I didn't think you had. I was talking about it. That's the one I listened to. He revealed a thing or two about Zecharia Sitchin. Thought Leo was very good. He had his wife and child taken off him and was arrested after speaking out, and the Camelot disowned by more or less making a disclaimer about him after because he became confused and so they just dumped him when he changed, he lost it due to going through a lot of trauma

[stewart edwards]

hagbard_celine

I cant find it, but somewhere on this forum are three posts by me in response to these videos, noting important points (in my view) at the specific min intervals. Cant find them though, but if you are better with search than me, they may help you. Then again they may not.

[diamond dogs]

hagbard_celine

I cant find it, but somewhere on this forum are three posts by me in response to these videos, noting important points (in my view) at the specific min intervals. Cant find them though, but if you are better with search than me, they may help you. Then again they may not.

I think this is it.. I will read comments and watch vid thx


thetonic

My reflections on the first video. Timings are approximate.

Leo, if you are reading this, please accept my positive critisism in the way that it is meant - to help you.

1. Leo at various stages you are asked questions and you jump in before the interviewer has finsihed talking. I know that this is easy to do but if you can regain self mastery in this regard it will help your own esoteric growth. Fight the demon that gives you this impulse. Also sometimes you dont actually answer the question for you pop of to tangents easily.

2. 18.30 min - I didnt realise that the Duke of Kent was in charge of a Holy Order. Any ideas which one? Guess that scuppers my chance of getting his job:o

3. 25.50 - I wonder what the head of mi6 though upon hearing that he is a Knight of Malta? I wonder if the position goes with the job, ie is every mi6 boss a Knight of Malta? Phil???

4. 27.57 - Leo notes that Sitchin was ordered to write Ends of Days as disinformation. No mention is made of his earlier books like Wars of Gods and Men, which I would still recommend reading. Well I enjoyed it.

5. 32 - Leo notes that aliens are genies. Some may be, but I am looking forward to the day that this planet trades with aliens. Some years back I wrote an unpublished book on this very issue.

6. 40.40 - Leo notes that our world is in a constant battle between angels and demons. Leo while I dont in any way disagree with this you may find that there has been a new spirit of cooperation recently.

7. 49 - 2012 and the darker forces wanting to use it to their advantage. Of course they do, for that is the nature of the dark side. I think that the dark side realise however that if they go to far they will tip the balance to far and will loose everything. This is the most likley outcome.

8. 51 - I am glad to hear that I must be part of the "Elite" given that some want me in the Rosicruscian/Martinist side of things, going by the subtle hints I have had over the years. Though if Leo is correct here this could mean that I am just "manipulatable";):eek: People have tried in the past to manipulate me for their ends, and yes I have been hurt in the process of standing up to them, but I have also helped them face themselves;)

Leo you could have made your points in under half an hour. If you work on this it will improve your self discipline and will get more people listening to you. A quarter of the time if you take the history out, though it is interesting.


I will go back to the second video another day.

The link to the other comments.. 5th page

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52553&highlight=zagami&page=5

[stewart edwards]

Thank you Diamond Dogs, much appreciated.

Just hope that my comments have been useful to someone. Anyone know if Leo is doing any more (or any recent) podcasts etc?

[luciferhorus]

Originally posted by Hadabusa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z7O7UZxipM



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDWCoqtyUVA&feature=related

Let me sum it up.

He is the messiah.
He is Jesus.
He was here 2000 years ago.
He has returned.
The Jews have already accepted him
Osama Bin Laden is the Imam Madhi (The Islamic Messiah)
With his DNA, his genetic code, he will purify the human race (lock up your daughters :-))
God has a name (Leo Zagami)
He is the emperor of the universe and the Grand Master of the Illuminati.
It was he (Leo Zagami) who issued the order for the Twin Towers to be destroyed.
His new religion (Matrixism) will be the religion of the future world.

And then in the second video we have his new motto (Heil Imperialim) in conjunction with a Nazi salute.

Frankly the first video above is one of the funniest videos I have seen on the Internet since Monty Python's "Life of Brian."

In a more serious vein however, this phenomenon is rather common; there are numerous "messiahs" on the earth at this time; the study of this phenomenon is essentially the styudy of new religious movements; generally I think it safe to assume that all "old religious movements" began with characters like Leo. Of course only I truly the represent the one true militant Jewish, black, lesbian. Communist God and all others are heretics and blasphemers.

:-)

Lux

[stewart edwards]

Oh dear. Leo, I hope that things work out for you.

[grandsecretary]

This is what can happen to you if you dabble in things that affect and confuse the mind, and then surround yourself with people who are also just as affected and confused. It is a downward spiral.

[luciferhorus]

I thought it might be worthy of disucussion to post the following from the http://www.masonicinfo.com/zagami.htm website.

Note the reference the RGLE Grand Secretary here

According to the the bunch of attachments he sent, he then joined forces with the bogus Regular Grand Lodge of England whose Grand Secretary also has quite a penchant for profanity. Birds of a feather.... Quite a bright boy, Mr. Zagami/Young/Khan too, to have learned all about Freemasonry world-wide - including its many conspiracy plans - in less than two years time.

But here's where things all fall apart: because the RGLE's Grand Secretary also sells memberships in an internet Memphis-Mizraim group that gives degrees numbering into the nineties, Mr. Zagami can thus make his bizarre claim that 'he's a 95th Degree Mason'

This is not the same Grand Secretary who debates on this forum. The RGLE and the GLAE are apparently two different organistions which apparently claim to represent the one true orthodox Masonry in contrast to those dangerous heretics and blasphemers of the UGLE lodges; however the GLAE do also have a page dedicated to ridiculing them on the above site http://www.masonicinfo.com/allengland.htm

Lux
For blasphemy, heresy, revolution etc.

_______________________________

http://www.masonicinfo.com/images/zagami1.jpg

The Illuminati renegade - and Freemason
It's pretty spooky: here's a guy who's CLEARLY a big deal - and he'll certainly be glad to tell you so! He wants to be on every conspiracy radio broadcast you'll find - but this is, perhaps, not surprising in view of his knowledge of that particular medium (as you'll see below). On his website, he'll tell you that he's an ex-member of the Comitato Esecutivo Massonico - Masonic Executive Committee (MEC) of Monte Carlo. He claims that, until recently, "...a high level member of the Italian Illuminati, a 33rd degree freemason, a true insider and a high-member of the infamous Freemasonic P2 Lodge." Further, his website claims that "He was the "prince", prepared to take over after the older Illuminati "king", Licio Gelli. He is of Illuminati aristocrat bloodline and therefore involved in the Illuminati Order since childhood."

Really?
Simply, NO! You may have missed the bio that's on his website which doesn't - quite strangely - mention ANY of those things. Instead, it presents Mr. Leo Young (one of his 'other' names) being far less a 'man of mystery' and much more a very insecure and self-aggrandizing musical promoter. Maybe he ISN'T a milque-toast wannabe but based on the exhaustive detail he provides, it really should give you some clue as to the narcissistic factors at play in this man's world. Does YOUR biography talk about the importance of haircuts in your life? If it does, then you probably will just love Leo.

What's particularly interesting is that his biography NEVER mentions his living in Monte Carlo where his imaginary memberships are supposed to exist. Perhaps we're being too picky....? Let's examine this further:

'Masonic Executive Committee of Monte Carlo'?
How curious. Monte Carlo - and, in fact, ALL of Monaco - has only ONE Masonic Lodge which was founded there in 1924 by the United Grand Lodge of ENGLAND (headquartered in London). It is governed directly FROM London and is the only lodge of the English Constitution still remaining in "French" territory. Port of Hercules Lodge #4626, EC, meets in the Library of St. Paul's Church House, Avenue de la Grande Bretagne on the 2nd Thursday of January, March and November with their installation on the 23rd of April each year.1 We'd guess that Mr. Young/Zagami never realized that someone might know about what goes on in Monte Carlo but.... well, here we are! Would it surprise you to know too that the "Comitato Esecutivo Massonico" stuff only appears in search engines with Mr. Zagami's name attached to it? If you're completely conspiracy-addicted, you'll already have the answer: it's a CONSPIRACY and only Zagami has the courage to talk about it. If, on the other hand, you have a modicum of common sense, you'll know that it's only because this individual has gotten a bunch of like-minded paranoids to repeat his fairy tale.

A high level member of the Italian Illuminati?
Well, for a group that doesn't exist - and Mr. Zagami has produced exactly ZERO proof of said membership except his own self-serving statements - frankly, only the most gullible would swallow those. Nevertheless, today that would seem to include a great many conspiracy-minded folks who, because of some psychological need to bring order into their lives by providing explanations for random acts of horror, accept ANY claims that 'sound good' without the slightest hint of proof. And we've got to wonder why a former "high level member of the Italian Illuminati" would write the following as his biography:

BIOGRAPHY OF LEO LYON ZAGAMI AKA LEO YOUNG (and now identifies himself as Khaled Saifullah Khan)



RECORD PRODUCER - RADIO PRESENTER - CLUB DJ -WANNA BE ILLUMINATI :)

RECORD PRODUCER

DISCOGRAPHY

YEAR - TITLE- ARTIST

1988 "Beat Romance" - Backstage / Lunatic Records - Disco Magic (Italy)

1990 "Shining" - Brothers Brigade (Leo Young, Cirillo, Markie) / White Label (UK)
<snip>

We found it pretty odd, frankly: here is is claiming HE is a "WANNA BE" with a smiley and yet, when ranting about conspiracies, he claims with all seriousness that he was one of them? Odd - or schizophrenic - or both? You decide!

And then there's that other problem: Mr. Zagami (Young, Khan, whatever) claims that the Illuminati is controlled by the Jesuits in the Vatican. Yet, strangely, they're also Freemasons? Who would have thought....

A 33rd Degree Freemason?
Mr. Zagami is neither the first nor will he be the last to claim for himself honors and awards never received. Probably the most scurrilous of such claims involves a former Mason, Jim Shaw, who - with the prodding of his co-author - created a complete fantasy about receiving this honorary degree/recognition. Perhaps Mr. Young/Zagami would be good enough to produce his patent of membership? Perhaps he would deign to reveal where and when this event occurred - since they are all recorded by the governing Scottish Rite jurisdiction?

Oh, and on what basis did Mr. Zagami/Young receive this honor? Because he was so gosh-darn cool as a disc jockey perhaps?

Or how about his age? From this website, we learn that Mr. Young was born in about 1970. Since he's been running around in conspiracy circles for several years now, that would mean that had he received the claimed award, he would have been aged 30 or younger. Now how likely is THAT, do you suppose? Well, they must have bent the rules for someone so talented....

A true insider and member of the Freemasonic P2 Lodge?
Now here's the real problem. The P-2 Lodge was closed in 1976 - at a time when he was SIX YEARS OLD. Why young Mr. Young probably wasn't even Zagami at that point. Oh, and then, when he was about age 11, Italy banned all secret societies so it's bye-bye P2 - except in the fantasy world of this individual.

Again, for the completely clueless, his story will leave you breathless. For most others, it's probably the stench of lies rather than the story that will take your breath away.

And, of course, anti-Semitic as well....
According to this site, Mr. Zagami / Young doesn't think too highly of Jews either!



"LOOK, LOOK" - A cry for attention!
We've mentioned elsewhere on this site that some individuals decide to rail against Freemasonry because they want attention and it's one area where they feel they can amass information which will ostensibly make them a 'subject expert' thus giving them the recognition they so desperately crave. We've also noted that there are a couple of actual ex-Masons running around on the internet who want everyone to believe that they were top leaders whose information is accurate and unimpeachable. Mr. Young falls into both of those categories, in fact but as you'll soon see, his information is not only absurd but is based on the lies and falsehoods of others.

It's particularly interesting to compare and contrast the rants of the self-styled Leo Zagami with those of Bill Schnoebelen who ALSO claims to be a 95th Degree Mason. Mr. Schnoebelen, curiously, never mentions any world-wide conspiracy to overthrow governments but rather, rants about Freemasonry's incompatibility with Christianity. Zagami/Young, on the other hand, seems to be oblivious to Schnoeblen's themes and instead revels in the far-right conspiracy faction that sees boogey-men under every bed.

Don't you wonder how they were both such "high-ranking Masons" and yet seemed to see something completely different?

Not long after this page went live, we discovered that we'd been subject to a barrage of e-mails from Mr. Young designed ostensibly to prove his case. What they showed was quite interesting. First, of course, was that they'd sat in our junk mail box for some time because he had failed to read the simple instructions for mailing us as found on the bottom of each and every page on this website. Then, seemingly miffed that we'd not responded sooner to his whines, he actually sent along a message in the proper format causing us to go back and find his prior 'stuff'.

Mr. Young, according to the documents he's sent, was actually a member - for a preciously short time - of a regular/recognized Masonic lodge under the United Grand Lodge of England. However (and this should come as NO surprise to anyone who has noted the similarities amongst anti-Masons), he was expelled not even two years later, failing to even attend the hearing which was held about his behavior. It is interesting to note that among the charges against him were his extreme use of profanity.

He likes to send this photo to 'prove' something about his make-believe memberships. On the right is - as you can see clearly - a copy of the by-laws of the Masonic Lodge from which he was BOUNCED! Since when do people carry around a set of lodge by-laws as part of an identification? Apparently when they can be matched with a picture of one's self pretending to be some kind of an ID on the other side. Doesn't he realize how stupid this appears? It would be like taking a pocket-sized timetable from a railroad route and setting it beside something you've created in a shareware graphics program to claim that you're a member of the Board of Directors of the railroad. Masonic Lodges/Clubs/whatever don't need ID photos of their members since, as everybody knows, Masons have that secret handshake!

According to the the bunch of attachments he sent, he then joined forces with the bogus Regular Grand Lodge of England whose Grand Secretary also has quite a penchant for profanity. Birds of a feather.... Quite a bright boy, Mr. Zagami/Young/Khan too, to have learned all about Freemasonry world-wide - including its many conspiracy plans - in less than two years time.

But here's where things all fall apart: because the RGLE's Grand Secretary also sells memberships in an internet Memphis-Mizraim group that gives degrees numbering into the nineties, Mr. Zagami can thus make his bizarre claim that 'he's a 95th Degree Mason' - even though it's a tree-house club consisting of only the truly gullible and/or absurd. Gosh, two supposed adults who can't communicate without resorting to obscenities playing dress-up. Who would have thought, eh? And recently we've gotten another bunch of photos, proving nothing, along with this cry for attention:

On the 10h of Jannuary 2008 I was invited at the Garibaldi Lodge of the Grande Oriente Italiano in Rome , this invitation was made by a group of courageous Brothers who are not scared of the Vatican neo illuminati and dont have any problems with my anti masonic and anti NWO revelations , inviting me instead to speak in open Lodge as their special guest they demonstrated their unique tollerance and their true fraternal spirit .

Now many Masons will recognize that for decades anti-Masons have been invited to speak at meetings. Ed Decker, in fact, has been invited to speak at Masonic lodges on several occasions. However, Mr. Zagami's invitation is nothing at all like this. "Garibaldi Lodge of the Grande Oriente Italiano" is simply another paper creation of Mr. Gabirro and his self-created Regular Grand Lodge of England. You can see it all right here.

As to the rest of his claims, he relies on a bunch of bizarre assertions ostensibly linking men dead for a half-century with groups that he now wants you to think he has some part in. His most recent message had what was supposed to be an e-mail to a well-known UK Mason turning down an invitation to join a United Nations Club. Mr. Zagami/Kahn/whatever wrote forcefully (and with his usual horrible spelling) that he wasn't going to be involved in a Satanist, Illuminati conspiracy. What was this message that he'd received and had to share with us to prove he was 'right in the thick of things'? We almost fell on the floor laughing: it was an ANNOUNCEMENT of a monthly ROTARY Luncheon being held at the UN building's cafeteria. Zagami wasn't being invited to JOIN anything and would be neither eligible to attend that luncheon NOR would he qualify for Rotary membership anywhere as far as we can tell.




POOR LEO
Mr. Zagami has also taken great delight in having been noticed by this site, using it to revive an obviously sagging interest in his particular pandering of idiocy. Actually, when he was first brought to our attention we thought that his act was such a joke we didn't even bother. However, when the second query about him in four years arrived, we decided that the joke was too funny not to share. We're glad he thinks that he's even more important now due to his being profiled on this site. We'd suggest, though, that he can save his time and effort by not sending us further blurry, out-of-focus, and meaningless pictures as they'll be dumped without opening. We're glad that he's gotten his 15 minutes of fame appearing here on this website but even a joke as good as this one gets old after a while.... Perhaps the euphuism "Get a LIFE" might be best used in this situation.



Tedious and a total boor....
We're not sure at when Mr. Zagami Young Kahn LEO is going to stop trying to look even more foolish than he has already but it obviously isn't just yet! Always on the outlook for online mentions (such desperation!), he immediately found our last update to this page and proceeded to send us yet another blather-filled e-mail which he had sent to someone else.

Once again, he's tried to bend facts to suit his fancy. Among his claims are that:

1. (He) "...was invited at the Garibaldi Lodge of the Grande Oriente Italiano of Piazza del Gesu' in Rome, this invitation was made by a group of courageous Brothers who are not scared of the Vatican neo illuminati and dont have any problems with my anti masonic and anti NWO revelations ,..."

Masonicinfo.com reply: Now THAT makes lots of sense, doesn't it? A group of supposed Masons wanting to listen to 'revelations' from someone who is absolutely convinced that they're all evil. Did they buy him a few glasses of wine afterwards? But, as we'll quickly see, this is yet another bogus group he's talking about.

2. "...inviting me instead with the permission of their Grand Master to speak in open Lodge as their special guest they demonstrated their unique tollerance and their true fraternal spirit ."

Masonicinfo.com reply: Setting aside the MANY spelling problems Mr. Zagami experiences, NO regular/recognized Masonic body allows non-members to speak in "open lodge". But that is covered in our response to this:

3. "The Grande Oriente Italiano of Piazza' del Gesu' is a regular and legittimate Obbedience recognized internationaly by the CLIPSAS."

Masonicinfo.com reply: This one had us rolling on the floor, laughing. LITERALLY! Mr. Zagami is SO wrapped up in himself that he thinks organizations involved with CLIPSAS are regular and recognized. In fact, despite the completely irregular status of CLIPSAS, NO SUCH GRAND LODGE IS LISTED on the CLIPSAS membership rolls! Three strikes in just one sentence - and many points subtracted for egregious spelling errors as well. Poor, poor Leo....

His e-mail, sent to somebody in Norway and subsequently sent to me - apparently thinking I'll care - seeks to 'out' my Masonic affiliations. Gee whiz: you'd think he was the only guy who knew how to use Google. Identifying me as a Senior Mason" (I wonder what the heck that means. Am I THAT old? Maybe I should ask for more hush money, huh? Oh, but wait: Little Leo was a 33rd and a P2 member and he tries to pass himself off as a 'Senior Mason' too. Gosh, that must mean we're EQUAL! So what's he doing.... Oh, never mind. The irony here is so thick you couldn't cut it with a hack saw.) He then moans,

"...has been done to ruin my reputation and protect their true Masters of Freemasonry the Jesuits and their Zionist allies , and Brother Edward L.King also seems to spread alot of disinfo on Rui Gabirro's real position in Freemasonry and the illuminati. A High level position clearly stated in many documents in my hands."

You will believe just ANYTHING, won't you Mr. Zagami? According to internet reports, you've even changed your religion back and forth. We were offered information on this website which we find somewhat less than credible themselves but even they seem to think you're a bit daft. Sad that you're doing this on the soil of my ancestors there in Norway!

Quoted from:
http://www.masonicinfo.com/zagami.htm

[grandsecretary]

Is based in Slovenia. It is neither regular nor grand, no lodge and certainly not English.

Any attempt to link or associate The Grand Lodge of All England, also titled The Grand Lodge at York, the Ancient and Honourable Society and Fraternity of Freemasons meeting since time immemorial in the City of York with any individual, body, bodies, organisation, organisations, association or associations, whether Masonic or non-Masonic must be regarded as entirely false and possibly malicious unless supported by a written Treaty of Amity or Agreement ratified by The Grand Assembly of Masons at York or a Convocation of The Grand Lodge of All England, at York.

[luciferhorus]

I should point out that if anyone is considering joing "any" Masonic lodge and buying themself a "degree," that my offer of undercutting any price on salvation applies.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AhGe9uhQ1N0/RcpeblsPTwI/AAAAAAAAAWg/Xv23xeDWisc/s400/72virgins.jpg

Just to restate my offer; it is a 50% discount on salvation offered by any religious cult (or your money back in the afterlife) and 144 virgins in the afterlife (twice the number of virgins currently offered by militant Islam to their martyrs).

With regards to all other competing offers on salvation; I consider them heretical; the penalty for which shall be confinement to my father's eternal kingdom strapped to a pain intensifier.

Lucifer

http://www.lucifer.ws/img/Sigil_of_Lucifer_by_Monation.jpg

[thelonious]

I offer a 50% discount on salvation offered by any religious cult (or your money back in the afterlife) and 144 virgins in the afterlife (twice the number of virgins currently offered by militant Islam to their martyrs).



Throw in a couple of tomato dicers, and you've got yourself a deal.

[luciferhorus]

Throw in a couple of tomato dicers, and you've got yourself a deal.

Ah the prodigal son; how I rejoice over the repentant sinner who comes to his senses; two tomato dicers it is.

Lux

[moon monkey]

Poor Leo, he is so ill.

[grandsecretary]

Yes, and I hope that he recovers soon. His heart is in the right place.

[lightgiver]

does Leo have a long little finger nail.:)

[grandsecretary]

does Leo have a long little finger nail.:)

It is not as long as your nose. :)

[humito]

Is based in Slovenia. It is neither regular nor grand, no lodge and certainly not English.

Any attempt to link or associate The Grand Lodge of All England, also titled The Grand Lodge at York, the Ancient and Honourable Society and Fraternity of Freemasons meeting since time immemorial in the City of York with any individual, body, bodies, organisation, organisations, association or associations, whether Masonic or non-Masonic must be regarded as entirely false and possibly malicious unless supported by a written Treaty of Amity or Agreement ratified by The Grand Assembly of Masons at York or a Convocation of The Grand Lodge of All England, at York.
whatever...........
"meeting since time immemorial "...... is this really true?

[grandsecretary]

whatever...........
"meeting since time immemorial "...... is this really true?

Of course. Time immemorial simply means time extending beyond the reach of memory.

[lightgiver]

It is not as long as your nose. :)

Maybe you need sticking on a goat throne,your nose is that big it sticks out of the avatar you use.

watch you do not poke someone's eye out with that huge hooter.

did they use you as a stunt double in the re making of pinocchio :D

[grandsecretary]

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/brat.jpg

[elirien]

I thought it might be worthy of disucussion to post the following from the http://www.masonicinfo.com/zagami.htm website.

Note the reference the RGLE Grand Secretary here

According to the the bunch of attachments he sent, he then joined forces with the bogus Regular Grand Lodge of England whose Grand Secretary also has quite a penchant for profanity. Birds of a feather.... Quite a bright boy, Mr. Zagami/Young/Khan too, to have learned all about Freemasonry world-wide - including its many conspiracy plans - in less than two years time.

But here's where things all fall apart: because the RGLE's Grand Secretary also sells memberships in an internet Memphis-Mizraim group that gives degrees numbering into the nineties, Mr. Zagami can thus make his bizarre claim that 'he's a 95th Degree Mason'

This is not the same Grand Secretary who debates on this forum. The RGLE and the GLAE are apparently two different organistions which apparently claim to represent the one true orthodox Masonry in contrast to those dangerous heretics and blasphemers of the UGLE lodges; however the GLAE do also have a page dedicated to ridiculing them on the above site http://www.masonicinfo.com/allengland.htm

Lux
For blasphemy, heresy, revolution etc.

_______________________________

http://www.masonicinfo.com/images/zagami1.jpg

The Illuminati renegade - and Freemason
It's pretty spooky: here's a guy who's CLEARLY a big deal - and he'll certainly be glad to tell you so! He wants to be on every conspiracy radio broadcast you'll find - but this is, perhaps, not surprising in view of his knowledge of that particular medium (as you'll see below). On his website, he'll tell you that he's an ex-member of the Comitato Esecutivo Massonico - Masonic Executive Committee (MEC) of Monte Carlo. He claims that, until recently, "...a high level member of the Italian Illuminati, a 33rd degree freemason, a true insider and a high-member of the infamous Freemasonic P2 Lodge." Further, his website claims that "He was the "prince", prepared to take over after the older Illuminati "king", Licio Gelli. He is of Illuminati aristocrat bloodline and therefore involved in the Illuminati Order since childhood."

Really?
Simply, NO! You may have missed the bio that's on his website which doesn't - quite strangely - mention ANY of those things. Instead, it presents Mr. Leo Young (one of his 'other' names) being far less a 'man of mystery' and much more a very insecure and self-aggrandizing musical promoter. Maybe he ISN'T a milque-toast wannabe but based on the exhaustive detail he provides, it really should give you some clue as to the narcissistic factors at play in this man's world. Does YOUR biography talk about the importance of haircuts in your life? If it does, then you probably will just love Leo.

What's particularly interesting is that his biography NEVER mentions his living in Monte Carlo where his imaginary memberships are supposed to exist. Perhaps we're being too picky....? Let's examine this further:

'Masonic Executive Committee of Monte Carlo'?
How curious. Monte Carlo - and, in fact, ALL of Monaco - has only ONE Masonic Lodge which was founded there in 1924 by the United Grand Lodge of ENGLAND (headquartered in London). It is governed directly FROM London and is the only lodge of the English Constitution still remaining in "French" territory. Port of Hercules Lodge #4626, EC, meets in the Library of St. Paul's Church House, Avenue de la Grande Bretagne on the 2nd Thursday of January, March and November with their installation on the 23rd of April each year.1 We'd guess that Mr. Young/Zagami never realized that someone might know about what goes on in Monte Carlo but.... well, here we are! Would it surprise you to know too that the "Comitato Esecutivo Massonico" stuff only appears in search engines with Mr. Zagami's name attached to it? If you're completely conspiracy-addicted, you'll already have the answer: it's a CONSPIRACY and only Zagami has the courage to talk about it. If, on the other hand, you have a modicum of common sense, you'll know that it's only because this individual has gotten a bunch of like-minded paranoids to repeat his fairy tale.

A high level member of the Italian Illuminati?
Well, for a group that doesn't exist - and Mr. Zagami has produced exactly ZERO proof of said membership except his own self-serving statements - frankly, only the most gullible would swallow those. Nevertheless, today that would seem to include a great many conspiracy-minded folks who, because of some psychological need to bring order into their lives by providing explanations for random acts of horror, accept ANY claims that 'sound good' without the slightest hint of proof. And we've got to wonder why a former "high level member of the Italian Illuminati" would write the following as his biography:

BIOGRAPHY OF LEO LYON ZAGAMI AKA LEO YOUNG (and now identifies himself as Khaled Saifullah Khan)



RECORD PRODUCER - RADIO PRESENTER - CLUB DJ -WANNA BE ILLUMINATI :)

RECORD PRODUCER

DISCOGRAPHY

YEAR - TITLE- ARTIST

1988 "Beat Romance" - Backstage / Lunatic Records - Disco Magic (Italy)

1990 "Shining" - Brothers Brigade (Leo Young, Cirillo, Markie) / White Label (UK)
<snip>

We found it pretty odd, frankly: here is is claiming HE is a "WANNA BE" with a smiley and yet, when ranting about conspiracies, he claims with all seriousness that he was one of them? Odd - or schizophrenic - or both? You decide!

And then there's that other problem: Mr. Zagami (Young, Khan, whatever) claims that the Illuminati is controlled by the Jesuits in the Vatican. Yet, strangely, they're also Freemasons? Who would have thought....

A 33rd Degree Freemason?
Mr. Zagami is neither the first nor will he be the last to claim for himself honors and awards never received. Probably the most scurrilous of such claims involves a former Mason, Jim Shaw, who - with the prodding of his co-author - created a complete fantasy about receiving this honorary degree/recognition. Perhaps Mr. Young/Zagami would be good enough to produce his patent of membership? Perhaps he would deign to reveal where and when this event occurred - since they are all recorded by the governing Scottish Rite jurisdiction?

Oh, and on what basis did Mr. Zagami/Young receive this honor? Because he was so gosh-darn cool as a disc jockey perhaps?

Or how about his age? From this website, we learn that Mr. Young was born in about 1970. Since he's been running around in conspiracy circles for several years now, that would mean that had he received the claimed award, he would have been aged 30 or younger. Now how likely is THAT, do you suppose? Well, they must have bent the rules for someone so talented....

A true insider and member of the Freemasonic P2 Lodge?
Now here's the real problem. The P-2 Lodge was closed in 1976 - at a time when he was SIX YEARS OLD. Why young Mr. Young probably wasn't even Zagami at that point. Oh, and then, when he was about age 11, Italy banned all secret societies so it's bye-bye P2 - except in the fantasy world of this individual.

Again, for the completely clueless, his story will leave you breathless. For most others, it's probably the stench of lies rather than the story that will take your breath away.

And, of course, anti-Semitic as well....
According to this site, Mr. Zagami / Young doesn't think too highly of Jews either!



"LOOK, LOOK" - A cry for attention!
We've mentioned elsewhere on this site that some individuals decide to rail against Freemasonry because they want attention and it's one area where they feel they can amass information which will ostensibly make them a 'subject expert' thus giving them the recognition they so desperately crave. We've also noted that there are a couple of actual ex-Masons running around on the internet who want everyone to believe that they were top leaders whose information is accurate and unimpeachable. Mr. Young falls into both of those categories, in fact but as you'll soon see, his information is not only absurd but is based on the lies and falsehoods of others.

It's particularly interesting to compare and contrast the rants of the self-styled Leo Zagami with those of Bill Schnoebelen who ALSO claims to be a 95th Degree Mason. Mr. Schnoebelen, curiously, never mentions any world-wide conspiracy to overthrow governments but rather, rants about Freemasonry's incompatibility with Christianity. Zagami/Young, on the other hand, seems to be oblivious to Schnoeblen's themes and instead revels in the far-right conspiracy faction that sees boogey-men under every bed.

Don't you wonder how they were both such "high-ranking Masons" and yet seemed to see something completely different?

Not long after this page went live, we discovered that we'd been subject to a barrage of e-mails from Mr. Young designed ostensibly to prove his case. What they showed was quite interesting. First, of course, was that they'd sat in our junk mail box for some time because he had failed to read the simple instructions for mailing us as found on the bottom of each and every page on this website. Then, seemingly miffed that we'd not responded sooner to his whines, he actually sent along a message in the proper format causing us to go back and find his prior 'stuff'.

Mr. Young, according to the documents he's sent, was actually a member - for a preciously short time - of a regular/recognized Masonic lodge under the United Grand Lodge of England. However (and this should come as NO surprise to anyone who has noted the similarities amongst anti-Masons), he was expelled not even two years later, failing to even attend the hearing which was held about his behavior. It is interesting to note that among the charges against him were his extreme use of profanity.

He likes to send this photo to 'prove' something about his make-believe memberships. On the right is - as you can see clearly - a copy of the by-laws of the Masonic Lodge from which he was BOUNCED! Since when do people carry around a set of lodge by-laws as part of an identification? Apparently when they can be matched with a picture of one's self pretending to be some kind of an ID on the other side. Doesn't he realize how stupid this appears? It would be like taking a pocket-sized timetable from a railroad route and setting it beside something you've created in a shareware graphics program to claim that you're a member of the Board of Directors of the railroad. Masonic Lodges/Clubs/whatever don't need ID photos of their members since, as everybody knows, Masons have that secret handshake!

According to the the bunch of attachments he sent, he then joined forces with the bogus Regular Grand Lodge of England whose Grand Secretary also has quite a penchant for profanity. Birds of a feather.... Quite a bright boy, Mr. Zagami/Young/Khan too, to have learned all about Freemasonry world-wide - including its many conspiracy plans - in less than two years time.

But here's where things all fall apart: because the RGLE's Grand Secretary also sells memberships in an internet Memphis-Mizraim group that gives degrees numbering into the nineties, Mr. Zagami can thus make his bizarre claim that 'he's a 95th Degree Mason' - even though it's a tree-house club consisting of only the truly gullible and/or absurd. Gosh, two supposed adults who can't communicate without resorting to obscenities playing dress-up. Who would have thought, eh? And recently we've gotten another bunch of photos, proving nothing, along with this cry for attention:

On the 10h of Jannuary 2008 I was invited at the Garibaldi Lodge of the Grande Oriente Italiano in Rome , this invitation was made by a group of courageous Brothers who are not scared of the Vatican neo illuminati and dont have any problems with my anti masonic and anti NWO revelations , inviting me instead to speak in open Lodge as their special guest they demonstrated their unique tollerance and their true fraternal spirit .

Now many Masons will recognize that for decades anti-Masons have been invited to speak at meetings. Ed Decker, in fact, has been invited to speak at Masonic lodges on several occasions. However, Mr. Zagami's invitation is nothing at all like this. "Garibaldi Lodge of the Grande Oriente Italiano" is simply another paper creation of Mr. Gabirro and his self-created Regular Grand Lodge of England. You can see it all right here.

As to the rest of his claims, he relies on a bunch of bizarre assertions ostensibly linking men dead for a half-century with groups that he now wants you to think he has some part in. His most recent message had what was supposed to be an e-mail to a well-known UK Mason turning down an invitation to join a United Nations Club. Mr. Zagami/Kahn/whatever wrote forcefully (and with his usual horrible spelling) that he wasn't going to be involved in a Satanist, Illuminati conspiracy. What was this message that he'd received and had to share with us to prove he was 'right in the thick of things'? We almost fell on the floor laughing: it was an ANNOUNCEMENT of a monthly ROTARY Luncheon being held at the UN building's cafeteria. Zagami wasn't being invited to JOIN anything and would be neither eligible to attend that luncheon NOR would he qualify for Rotary membership anywhere as far as we can tell.




POOR LEO
Mr. Zagami has also taken great delight in having been noticed by this site, using it to revive an obviously sagging interest in his particular pandering of idiocy. Actually, when he was first brought to our attention we thought that his act was such a joke we didn't even bother. However, when the second query about him in four years arrived, we decided that the joke was too funny not to share. We're glad he thinks that he's even more important now due to his being profiled on this site. We'd suggest, though, that he can save his time and effort by not sending us further blurry, out-of-focus, and meaningless pictures as they'll be dumped without opening. We're glad that he's gotten his 15 minutes of fame appearing here on this website but even a joke as good as this one gets old after a while.... Perhaps the euphuism "Get a LIFE" might be best used in this situation.



Tedious and a total boor....
We're not sure at when Mr. Zagami Young Kahn LEO is going to stop trying to look even more foolish than he has already but it obviously isn't just yet! Always on the outlook for online mentions (such desperation!), he immediately found our last update to this page and proceeded to send us yet another blather-filled e-mail which he had sent to someone else.

Once again, he's tried to bend facts to suit his fancy. Among his claims are that:

1. (He) "...was invited at the Garibaldi Lodge of the Grande Oriente Italiano of Piazza del Gesu' in Rome, this invitation was made by a group of courageous Brothers who are not scared of the Vatican neo illuminati and dont have any problems with my anti masonic and anti NWO revelations ,..."

Masonicinfo.com reply: Now THAT makes lots of sense, doesn't it? A group of supposed Masons wanting to listen to 'revelations' from someone who is absolutely convinced that they're all evil. Did they buy him a few glasses of wine afterwards? But, as we'll quickly see, this is yet another bogus group he's talking about.

2. "...inviting me instead with the permission of their Grand Master to speak in open Lodge as their special guest they demonstrated their unique tollerance and their true fraternal spirit ."

Masonicinfo.com reply: Setting aside the MANY spelling problems Mr. Zagami experiences, NO regular/recognized Masonic body allows non-members to speak in "open lodge". But that is covered in our response to this:

3. "The Grande Oriente Italiano of Piazza' del Gesu' is a regular and legittimate Obbedience recognized internationaly by the CLIPSAS."

Masonicinfo.com reply: This one had us rolling on the floor, laughing. LITERALLY! Mr. Zagami is SO wrapped up in himself that he thinks organizations involved with CLIPSAS are regular and recognized. In fact, despite the completely irregular status of CLIPSAS, NO SUCH GRAND LODGE IS LISTED on the CLIPSAS membership rolls! Three strikes in just one sentence - and many points subtracted for egregious spelling errors as well. Poor, poor Leo....

His e-mail, sent to somebody in Norway and subsequently sent to me - apparently thinking I'll care - seeks to 'out' my Masonic affiliations. Gee whiz: you'd think he was the only guy who knew how to use Google. Identifying me as a Senior Mason" (I wonder what the heck that means. Am I THAT old? Maybe I should ask for more hush money, huh? Oh, but wait: Little Leo was a 33rd and a P2 member and he tries to pass himself off as a 'Senior Mason' too. Gosh, that must mean we're EQUAL! So what's he doing.... Oh, never mind. The irony here is so thick you couldn't cut it with a hack saw.) He then moans,

"...has been done to ruin my reputation and protect their true Masters of Freemasonry the Jesuits and their Zionist allies , and Brother Edward L.King also seems to spread alot of disinfo on Rui Gabirro's real position in Freemasonry and the illuminati. A High level position clearly stated in many documents in my hands."

You will believe just ANYTHING, won't you Mr. Zagami? According to internet reports, you've even changed your religion back and forth. We were offered information on this website which we find somewhat less than credible themselves but even they seem to think you're a bit daft. Sad that you're doing this on the soil of my ancestors there in Norway!

Quoted from:
http://www.masonicinfo.com/zagami.htm

Well it's hard to read through all that ad hominem but what would you comment on Leo Zagami's claim that he was possessed (probably still is) by Lucifer him/herself. He had an exorcism which he screwed up later on.

Also there are some writings (looks like government) who discuss the "Comitato Esecutivo Massonico".


The Commissione Parlamentare antimafia ( 9 marzo 1993 - 18 febbraio 1994)

QUOTE Pagine 799

Il Massonic Executive Committee.

Il Massonic Executive Committee (MEC) viene fondato a Montecarlo prima del 1981, probabilmente dallo stesso Gelli. Tra il 1979 e il 1980 si erano svolte a Montecatini e a Livorno varie riunioni massoniche nelle quali Gelli era stato attaccato aspramente.

Ad una di queste riunioni aveva partecipato anche Enzo Giunchiglia, perito nucleare, addetto al CAMEN (Centro Atomica Militare Energia Nucleare) e fornito del NOS (nulla segretezza), di cui sono in possesso solo le persone considerate affidabili dalla NATO. Può darsi che il Comitato di Montecarlo sia stato fondato dagli avversari di Gelli, tra cui spicca di William Rosati, per costruire una sorta di contraltare alla P2.

Ma è possibile che il Comitato, sorto su iniziativa di Gelli, sia stato poi pilotato da Rosati in senso non gradito al Venerabile.

Poco chiara resta in questa fase il ruolo di Giunchiglia. La Commissione parlamentare di d'inchiesta sulla P2 lo ha denunciato alla Procura di Roma, descrivendolo come elemento forse coinvolto nel traffico di armi e collegato con i servizi segreti.

Giunchiglia è vicino un tal Balestrieri, anche 'egli membro del MEC, coinvolto in un traffico di 200 carri armati Leopard, e a Elio Ciolini , implicato nell'operazione di depi-staggio delle indagine sulla strage della stazione di Bologna. Dopo un grave infarto capitato a Rosati, le redini del comitato vengono riprese da Giunchiglia; e
per suo tramite da Gelli. Giunchiglia resta sempre legato al Venerabile e si mantiene in contatto con lui anche durante il periodo della latitanza.

Pagine 800

Il MEC, articolato in ben trenta dipartimenti, diviene il rifugio di molti aderenti alla vecchia P2. Davanti alla Commissione parlamentare, l'ex gran Maestro della Massoneria Lino Salvini ha confermato che nel periodo precedente alla scoperta degli elenchi, Gelli aveva in mente di fare affiliare gli aderenti alla P2 ad un'altra Gran Loggia all'estero.

E' stato l'avvocato Federici, pure legato alla P2, a rivelare i dettagli dell'operazione.

Il MEC nasce come organizzazione a latere per volontà dello stesso Gelli, che avrebbe potuto così riversare nel Comitato di Montecarlo gli iscritti che avessero voluto mantenere la segretezza, e sarebbe stato libero di rendere di pubblico dominio i nominativi degli altri. Non si può escludere che le cose siano andate effettivamente così: l'ipotesi che lo stesso Gelli abbia pilotato il ritrovamento degli elenchi è stata presa in considerazione dalla stessa Commissione P2.

Il Comitato di Montecarlo segna l'ultima fase, a quanto risulta, della strategia di Gelli. Una strategia che mira ad acquisire posizioni di potere, con il noto metodo dell'infiltrazione delle istituzioni, del progressivo svuotamento di qualsiasi contenuto democratico nel loro concreto funzionamento, dell'utilizzazione di una rete privilegiata di rapporti tra uomini influenti per asservire la politica agli interessi di un gruppo potere occulto. Di nuovo c'è che la strategia ora tiene conto della crisi del sistema politico, esplicitamente richiamata in testa al documento programmatico intitolato " La Massoneria Universale". E' opportuno riportare qualche passo significativo : "Il Comitato Esecutivo Massonico no si pone come alternative alle Logge Massoniche, ma - al contrario - si pone come loro punto di incontro (...) Premessa l'assoluta indispensabilità di questo mezzo, i Fratelli membri del Comitato Esecutivo Massonico debbono perciò studiare, analizzare il potere al fine di conquistarlo, esercitarlo, conservarlo, aumentarlo e renderlo sempre più saldo. Noi anzitutto desideriamo costruire una Assemblea di persone coscienti del proprio valore (...). Non un uomo che faccia della politica il proprio punto di riferimento, ma un individuo che dia al proprio Io il proprio punto di avvio per lo sviluppo coerente delle premesse umane ed esistenziali dell'esistenza collettiva.

La cooperazione individualistica massonica diverrà perciò una forma di politica (...)". Dunque non si indica più la strada delle riforme istituzionali, come nel piano di rinascita democratica. Nessun accenno alla necessità di modificare la forma di governo o di imprimere perseguito, la conquista del potere, che sarà piegato agli scopi indicati dal Comitato. Una "grande riforma" strisciante: mutare il segno delle istituzione senza intaccarne la forma.

Qualcosa di simile è accaduto in Italia negli ultimi anni.

Ciò che colpisce di più, nel citato documento del Comitato di Montecarlo, è la straordinaria analogia con il metodo mafioso di infiltrazione nelle istituzioni e nei partiti. Al punto III, rubricato come "Apartiticità" si legge: "Il Fratello può far parte di un partito politico 'democratico', ma soltanto per tattica. La sua vera appartenenza è al Comitato, le cui indicazioni devono sempre avere la preferenza e la precedenza su tutte le altre, da qualsiasi parte provengano. E ciò perché egli agisce tendendo presente la verità e il benessere di tutti, e non il rispetto della 'macchinazione politica' così come generalmente si usa. La politica come tale non fa parte dei suoi interessi" L'analogia sta soprattutto nella sovraordinazione del vincolo associativo, criminale o occulto che sia, su qualsiasi altro tipo di appartenenza. E' c'è anche l'obbligo di obbedienza: agli ordini dei capi della mafia, alle "indicazioni" del Comitato nel decalogo del MEC.Si tratta di prescrizioni, di vere e proprio regole di comportamento che sono le uniche riconosciute come tali, dotate di una forza cogente che fa impallidire l'imperatività della legge statale.

"Vista l'elevatezza e la complessità del compito sarà opportuna che ciascun membro del Comitato Esecutivo intervenga 'immediatamente' sul fratello che commette qualcosa di contrario all'etica del Comitato. Ciò per consentirgli di non deviare, o almeno per far si che gli altri fratelli possano intervenire tempestivamente onde rimediare al suo errore: errore che danneggerebbe 'gravemente' l'azione dell'Organismo, nonché la sua credibilità e la sua affidabilità. Il testo, le parole tra virgolette, hanno un che di minaccioso, fanno pensare alla fine di Michele Sindona, di Roberto Calvi, di Mino Pecorelli. L'assunzione del metodo mafioso è completa e definitiva.


SLIGHTLY TWEAKED ITALIAN>ENGLISH TRANSLATION, NEEDS TIGHTENING UP:

Pages 799

The Masonic Executive Committee.

The Masonic Executive Committee (MEC) comes founded to Monte Carlo before 1981, probably from the same Gelli. Between 1979 and the 1980 had carried out to Montecatini and Livorno several masonic reunions in which Gelli had been attacked sourly.

To one of these reunions expert had participated also to Enzo Giunchiglia, nuclear, assigned to the CAMEN (Center Atomic to Support Nuclear Energy) and supplied of the NOS (null segretezza), of which they are in possession only the persons considered reliable from NATO. He can give themselves that the Committee of Monte Carlo has been founded from the adversaries of Gelli, between which enunciates of William Rosati, in order to construct a kind of contraltare to the P2.

But it is possible that the Committee, risen on initiative of Gelli, or be then piloted from Rosati in sense not appreciate the Venerable person.

Little clear the role of Giunchiglia remains in this phase. The Commission parliamentarian of d' inquiry on has denounced it to the P2 to the Procura of Rome, having described it as element perhaps been involved in the traffic of crews and connected with the intelligence agencies.

Giunchiglia is close such Balistrieri, also ' he member of the MEC, been involved in a traffic of 200 tanks Leopard, and to Elio Ciolini, implied nell' operation of depi-staggio of surveying on the massacre of the station of Bologna. After a serious happened infarct to Rosati, the redini of the committee resumptions from Giunchiglia come; and for its through from Gelli. Giunchiglia remains always legacy to the Venerable person and it is maintained in contact with he also during the period of the furtiveness.


Pages 800

The MEC, articulated in very thirty departments, becomes the shelter of many supporters with the old P2. In front of the Commission parliamentarian, l' former Grand Master of Masonry Lino Salvini has confirmed that in the period precedence to the discovery of he lists, Gelli had in mind to make to affiliate the supporters with the P2 to un' other Great Lodge all' foreign country.

E' state l' Federici lawyer, also legacy to the P2, to reveal the details dell' operation.

The MEC is born like organization to latere for will of the same Gelli, that it could thus have poured in the Committee of Monte Carlo the enrolled one that they had intentional to maintain the segretezza, and would have free state to render of public dominion the nominative cases of the others. It cannot be excluded that the things have gone effectively thus: l' hypothesis that the same Gelli has piloted the ritrovamento of lists has been taken in consideration from the same P2 Commission.

The Committee of Monte Carlo marks l' last phase, to how much turns out, of the strategy of Gelli. A strategy that aimed to acquire positions of being able, with the famous method dell' infiltration of the institutions, the progressive emptying of any content democratic in their concrete operation, dell' use of a privileged net of relationships between influential men in order to enslave politics to the interests of a group to be able hidden. Of new c' it is that the strategy now holds account of the crisis of the political system, explicitly recalled overhead to the entitled programmatico document "The Universale Masonry". E' opportune to bring back some meaningful step: "The Masonic Executive Committee does not place itself like alternatives to the Masonic Lodge, but - on the contrary (...) Premised point of encounter is placed like they l' absolute indispensability of this means, the Brother members of the Masonic Executive Committee must therefore study, to analyze the power to the aim to conquer it, to exercise it, to conserve it, to increase it and to render it more and more solid. We first of all wish to construct an Assembly of aware persons of own value (...). Not a man who makes of politics own point of reference, but an individual that I give own own I head of start for the coherent development of the human and existential premises dell' collective existence.

The masonic individualistica cooperation will become therefore a politics form (...)". Therefore more is not indicated the road of the institutional reforms, like in the rebirth plan democratic. No I point out to the necessity to modify the form of government or imprimere persecuted, the conquest of the power, that it will be folded to the scopes indicated from the Committee. A "large riforma" crawling: to change the sign of the institution without to make a dent of the form.

Something of similar is happened in Italy during the last few years.

This that it hits more, in the cited document of the Committee of Monte Carlo, is the extraordinary analogy with the mafia method of infiltration in the institutions and the parties. Al point III, rubricato like "Apartiticità" law: " The Brother can make part of a political party 'democratico', but only for tactics. Its true belongings are to the Committee, whose indications must always have the preference and the precedence on all the others, from any part come. And this because it acts stretching present the truth and the well-being of all, and not the respect of the 'macchinazione politica' thus as generally it is used. Such politics like not ago part of its interessi" L' analogy is above all in the sovraordinazione of the associative, criminal or hidden tie that is, on any other type of belongings. E' c' it is also l' obedience obligation: under orders of the heads of the Mafia, to the "indicazioni" of the Committee in the decalogue of the MEC. Si draft of prescription, true and own rules of behavior that are the only ones recognized like such, equipped of a cogente force that ago to impallidire l' imperatività of the law be them.

"Sight l' elevatezza and the complexity of the task will be opportune that every member of the Executive Committee takes part 'immediatamente' on the brother that commits something of contrary all' ethics of the Committee. This for consentirgli not having, or at least in order to make that the other siblings can take part waves timely to make up for to its error: error that would damage 'gravemente' l' action dell' Organism, let alone its credibility and its reliability. The text, the words between virgolette, has that of threatening, they make to think in the end of Michele Sindona, of Roberto Calvi, of Mino Pecorelli. L' assumption of the mafia method is complete and definitive.


source: Craig Oxley's unhived mind forum. I'm not sure if his website is banned from here so google search the term "Comitato Esecutivo Massonico".

God help this person and Benjamin Fulford.

[luciferhorus]

Well it's hard to read through all that ad hominem but what would you comment on Leo Zagami's claim that he was possessed (probably still is) by Lucifer him/herself. He had an exorcism which he screwed up later on.
[/I]


Well firstly I should point out that "Lucifer" is an archetype, not an individual; in Roman mythology Lucifer was a rather minor god who was an astrological archetype; he was the male diety associated with the planet Venus; Venus of course was a prominent Roman deity and Lucifer, her lover, pales in significance in terms of her prominence in the Roman Pantheon.

Venus is of course today an archetype of "feminine love, feminism, women's liberation, lesbianism" etc., such archetypes tend also to change over the course of human history; it is not my view that the Roman myths and legends are "true" in a historical sense; any more than the Christian "myth" of Lucifer as the leader of an angelic rebellion is true; it is simply an archetypal character; the rebel, the revolutionary, he who resists tyranny and authority; the Promethean rebel who challenges the gods and archons of the age, much as Socrates, Jesus and Guevara did; of course such a rebellion against tyranny is considered to be "evil" by the lemming like proponents of Christan slave morality where "obedience to authority" is considered a virtue.

With regards to spiritual possession, yes I do believe that this phenonmenon occurs and that it is very common. As I understand it the ancestral realm is a realm of light where all the spirits of the ancestors from the multi-billion year history of our universe reside; they are in their countless myraids and we are are the relatively few; thus there are myraids of archetypal Luciferian ancestral spirits.

With regards to Leo being possessed by "Lucifer;" certainly Leo has a spirit of rebellion however he is hardly a revolutionary or a Communist or an Anarchist; he seeks to create a new religion (Matrixism) with himself a the top of it as the "New Archon / Messiah." That is hardly an indication of rebellion against organised religion; he simply wishes to replace other religions with his own messianic religion.


Human history is full of such individuals with Messianic complexes and who attempt to start personality cuts around themselves; frankly if someone of the ilk of Jesus were alive today, rather than being "crucified" he would more likely end up a mental institution for a while, which of course is what has happened to Leo; in fact the mental hospitals are full of "Second Comings of Christ" and those who claim to be communicating with God, the Devil, Napoleon or whoever; I do not view this however as purely the consequence of an imbalanced brain chemistry, as I personally consider the phenomenon of spiritual possession to be real.

Lux

[elirien]

Well firstly I should point out that "Lucifer" is an archetype, not an individual; in Roman mythology Lucifer was a rather minor god who was an astrological archetype; he was the male diety associated with the planet Venus; Venus of course was a prominent Roman deity and Lucifer, her lover, pales in significance in terms of her prominence in the Roman Pantheon.

Venus is of course today an archetype of "feminine love, feminism, women's liberation, lesbianism" etc., such archetypes tend also to change over the course of human history; it is not my view that the Roman myths and legends are "true" in a historical sense; any more than the Christian "myth" of Lucifer as the leader of an angelic rebellion is true; it is simply an archetypal character; the rebel, the revolutionary, he who resists tyranny and authority; the Promethean rebel who challenges the gods and archons of the age, much as Socrates, Jesus and Guevara did; of course such a rebellion against tyranny is considered to be "evil" by the lemming like proponents of Christan slave morality where "obedience to authority" is considered a virtue.

With regards to spiritual possession, yes I do believe that this phenonmenon occurs and that it is very common. As I understand it the ancestral realm is a realm of light where all the spirits of the ancestors from the multi-billion year history of our universe reside; they are in their countless myraids and we are are the relatively few; thus there are myraids of archetypal Luciferian ancestral spirits.

With regards to Leo being possessed by "Lucifer;" certainly Leo has a spirit of rebellion however he is hardly a revolutionary or a Communist or an Anarchist; he seeks to create a new religion (Matrixism) with himself a the top of it as the "New Archon / Messiah." That is hardly an indication of rebellion against organised religion; he simply wishes to replace other religions with his own messianic religion.


Human history is full of such individuals with Messianic complexes and who attempt to start personality cuts around themselves; frankly if someone of the ilk of Jesus were alive today, rather than being "crucified" he would more likely end up a mental institution for a while, which of course is what has happened to Leo; in fact the mental hospitals are full of "Second Comings of Christ" and those who claim to be communicating with God, the Devil, Napoleon or whoever; I do not view this however as purely the consequence of an imbalanced brain chemistry, as I personally consider the phenomenon of spiritual possession to be real.

Lux

Thank you very much for your reply.

I would agree with most of what you have written, even there are some inconsistencies within my understanding of what you have "depicted". I write this in visual ignorance just with theoretical knowledge and "emotional" experience. In a dualistic approach the Lucifer "archetype" even though seen as an archetype has a being on to itself and exists as one being as such in higher realms although that doesn't mean that it is "real" in an ultimate sense. It is the strict militant teacher of spirituality that one could depict as an angry nanny. This not being disrespectful and neither trying to degrade that being just trying to convey a physical archetype. Hence this being has a great tendency to beat on the physical human, the separate either by conveying the idea that "what you are doing is not good enough" or "what you are doing is not good enough" (you both in the plural and singular). It is so to speak the "super ego" or "the enlightened ego". Hence it manifests as militant religious belief in any form, from non-spiritual communism to Theosophic Nazism, Neocon "You're going to hell boy!" Christianity to Mujahedeen "Kill the infidel!" Islam and in this case Matrixism, whatever that means. All having the subconscious thought "if they want it they'll have it".

On a rebellious sense it has the idea that "they all got it wrong" which is the main thesis of any rebel probably and as you have put it manifests as lesbianism, feminine love, feminism which are all divided parts of a whole as we can observe in the lingual use of the second example. In an absolute sense it is a side of the one that both claims to be rebelling, knowledgeable in spirituality and conditional (among many other qualities).

As Leo's possession goes he seems to reflect it somehow although not as pure as we have seen in other examples. The Messianic complex could be the spirit/entity/archetype talking through that body although some coloring still applies due to the body having a dictionary of its own so to speak.

As far as Lucifer being an "adversary or satan" goes I believe that that time is almost over due to humanity gaining a greater common understanding of what it is and that another adversary is "on the rise" so to speak which deals with the digital but that's another subject altogether.

Just some thought on what we are dealing here with care to having any pro-con judgement.

Bless you.

[stewart edwards]

Human history is full of such individuals with Messianic complexes and who attempt to start personality cuts around themselves;Though some are likely to be money motivated without any real belief in what is being said.

frankly if someone of the ilk of Jesus were alive today, rather than being "crucified" he would more likely end up a mental institution for a whileIndeed.

in fact the mental hospitals are full of "Second Comings of Christ"I remain gobsmacked that people really do think this. But I do feel sympathy for Leo, as if he was surrounded by people whispering in his ear that "he is the one" it would be easy to believe the hype. As you know a handful of people have said such things to me/including in writing in the first few years of the millenium and I just thought them a bit barmy (sorry if you are reading this). But it does seem that people are looking for a "messiah" and some are looking for one "now". I just feel sorry for anyone who does believe the hype.

Lucifer do you not fancy the job yourself?

[elirien]

I remain gobsmacked that people really do think this. But I do feel sympathy for Leo, as if he was surrounded by people whispering in his ear that "he is the one" it would be easy to believe the hype. As you know a handful of people have said such things to me/including in writing in the first few years of the millenium and I just thought them a bit barmy (sorry if you are reading this). But it does seem that people are looking for a "messiah" and some are looking for one "now". I just feel sorry for anyone who does believe the hype.


Well you are "the one". Although that doesn't mean that "others" are not. If you speak such a concept to an infantile mind it will quickly interpret this as "I (this body) am God or Savior etc.".

[luciferhorus]

Thank you very much for your reply.

I would agree with most of what you have written, even there are some inconsistencies within my understanding of what you have "depicted". I write this in visual ignorance just with theoretical knowledge and "emotional" experience. In a dualistic approach the Lucifer "archetype" even though seen as an archetype has a being on to itself and exists as one being as such in higher realms although that doesn't mean that it is "real" in an ultimate sense. It is the strict militant teacher of spirituality that one could depict as an angry nanny. This not being disrespectful and neither trying to degrade that being just trying to convey a physical archetype. Hence this being has a great tendency to beat on the physical human, the separate either by conveying the idea that "what you are doing is not good enough" or "what you are doing is not good enough" (you both in the plural and singular). It is so to speak the "super ego" or "the enlightened ego". Hence it manifests as militant religious belief in any form, from non-spiritual communism to Theosophic Nazism, Neocon "You're going to hell boy!" Christianity to Mujahedeen "Kill the infidel!" Islam and in this case Matrixism, whatever that means. All having the subconscious thought "if they want it they'll have it".

On a rebellious sense it has the idea that "they all got it wrong" which is the main thesis of any rebel probably and as you have put it manifests as lesbianism, feminine love, feminism which are all divided parts of a whole as we can observe in the lingual use of the second example. In an absolute sense it is a side of the one that both claims to be rebelling, knowledgeable in spirituality and conditional (among many other qualities).
.

http://www.esqueembroidery.com/Catalogue/Images/CO032.jpg


I see that you are in Istanbul, Turkey; although Istanbul is a very modern 21st century city, most of the women of Turkey and in indeed the Islamic world in general seem to be little more than slaves to paternalistic (male supremacist) males; most of the Islamic world seems to be entirely unnafected by the women's liberation movement of Europe and America; this situation is rather similar in fact throughout almost the entirety of Africa India and indeed "most" of the female population of the world are still living in a Paternalist environment; essentially Europe and America has gone through a sexual revolution and a gender equality revolution which seems as yet to have barely touched the rest of the world where the "Venus" archetype or the thelemic "Babalon" archetype of a modern sexually liberated feminist is generally considered as a threat to Paternalistic males and is rather a "demoness" achetype.

Often it seems to be the case that those whose lives are steeped in religious traditions of the past see any threat to existing traditions as demonic; this is entirely considered to be a "regressive (to go backwards)" and conservative (to conserve the values and traditions of the past) tendency by European and American feminists as opposed to that which is progressive (to improve, to go forwards) and liberal (to liberate).

It is of course because of such thinking that the Luciferian archetype is similarly (similarly to the Venus archetype) held in contempt by those who adhere to the old religions such as Christanity, and of course in addition to the Christians there are many non-Christians and indeed even non-religious people who are still entirely under the hypnotic influence of Christian morality.


Probably most of population of the Islamic world today considers the phenomenon of "Anglo-American-Israeli Judeao-Christian state terrorism to be an evil phenomenon, which is a judgement shared by all Communists, Anarchists and probably most of the people debating here on the David Icke forum; however for those who consider Christian Capitalism and state terrorism / narco-terrorism to be "good" phenomenon, then it is understandable that they would consider any form of resistance and rebellion against the global tyranny of the Christian Capitalists to be "evil." However if Christianity is generally a malevolent phenomenon (which is my judgement), then it would seem to me that to resist and rebel against such evil, would not itself be an characteristic of evil, for surely evil would not rebel against evil.


As far as Lucifer being an "adversary or satan" goes I believe that that time is almost over due to humanity gaining a greater common understanding of what it is and that another adversary is "on the rise" so to speak which deals with the digital but that's another subject altogether.

With regards to "Lucifer" being a singular spiritual being, it is entirely probably that there is one ancestral spirit who perhaps personifies this archetype more than any other, however since it is likely that the population of the spiritual world is billions of times the population of those in our own universe of light, there are likely to be myraids of Luciferian archetypes. With regards to the "Devil" this is a Saturnalian (death, restriction, judgement) archetype not a Luciferian (Venus) archetype; it is an entirely different astrological archetype, however the "Devil" archetype as opposed to the merely the natural Saturnalian archetype is associated with a malevolent deity (ancestral spirit) who is viewed as the enemy of humanity and the god of the Capitalists, tyrants, slavemasters etc.


As Leo's possession goes he seems to reflect it somehow although not as pure as we have seen in other examples. The Messianic complex could be the spirit/entity/archetype talking through that body although some coloring still applies due to the body having a dictionary of its own so to speak.

It is a very common phenomenon in the study of religion; probably all the old religions and certainly all the major new cults that I am aware were founded at some point by someone like Leo. I do think that Leo considers himself to be resisting and opposing the current establishment; he is just going through a spiritual storm; what will become of him remains to be seen. Frankly such "spiritual storms" are common to those who dabble in experimental magick and necromancy; the person who practices necromancy generally risks their own sanity and can easily be drawn into a world of delusion anda realm where there subjective experience is almost impossible to explain to the world of "normal" people going about their daily lives.

Love and Light

Lux

[stewart edwards]

subjective experience is almost impossible to explain to the world of "normal" people going about their daily lives.Funnily enough this is one reason why I wrote Esoterics For Everyone, which explains how I made sense of life using everyday life experiences eg wanting to ask someone out on a date or wanting to steal a chocolate bar as a child etc. I am sure that come the summer I will take a lot of grief for it along the lines "he is as mad as a hatter" but I have seen similar taught by a headteacher in a school assembly. To me if you can't explain it in terms that people can relate to then what is the point?

Elirien, we are both but simple men.

[elirien]

I see that you are in Istanbul, Turkey; although Istanbul is a very modern 21st century city, most of the women of Turkey and in indeed the Islamic world in general seem to be little more than slaves to paternalistic (male supremacist) males; most of the Islamic world seems to be entirely unnafected by the women's liberation movement of Europe and America; this situation is rather similar in fact throughout almost the entirety of Africa India and indeed "most" of the female population of the world are still living in a Paternalist environment; essentially Europe and America has gone through a sexual revolution and a gender equality revolution which seems as yet to have barely touched the rest of the world where the "Venus" archetype or the thelemic "Babalon" archetype of a modern sexually liberated feminist is generally considered as a threat to Paternalistic males and is rather a "demoness" achetype.

Often it seems to be the case that those whose lives are steeped in religious traditions of the past see any threat to existing traditions as demonic; this is entirely considered to be a "regressive (to go backwards)" and conservative (to conserve the values and traditions of the past) tendency by European and American feminists as opposed to that which is progressive (to improve, to go forwards) and liberal (to liberate).

It is of course because of such thinking that the Luciferian archetype is similarly (similarly to the Venus archetype) held in contempt by those who adhere to the old religions such as Christanity, and of course in addition to the Christians there are many non-Christians and indeed even non-religious people who are still entirely under the hypnotic influence of Christian morality.


Probably most of population of the Islamic world today considers the phenomenon of "Anglo-American-Israeli Judeao-Christian state terrorism to be an evil phenomenon, which is a judgement shared by all Communists, Anarchists and probably most of the people debating here on the David Icke forum; however for those who consider Christian Capitalism and state terrorism / narco-terrorism to be "good" phenomenon, then it is understandable that they would consider any form of resistance and rebellion against the global tyranny of the Christian Capitalists to be "evil." However if Christianity is generally a malevolent phenomenon (which is my judgement), then it would seem to me that to resist and rebel against such evil, would not itself be an characteristic of evil, for surely evil would not rebel against evil.

Well considering the Turkish interpretation of Gender roles, ancient Turks had no obvious gender difference except the physical suit, since women were also horse riding and hunting. Some historians even claim that the Amazons in north Anatolia were a Turkish tribe. After the belief in Islam entered Turkish society the picture changed a bit due to clothing and adaption to some pieces of Arabian culture. In modern times women in Turkey are in every position professionally. We had a woman prime minister and women had the right to vote in 1926 two years before British women gained that right. So in a political and socio economical view women never needed to rebel since they were in an equal position from very early on.

Although I can't claim the same about other "Muslim countries" since I don't know that much about them. Although personally I find both paternal oppression as absurd as feminism since they are the same on different ends.

"Demonization" of the feminine as you have put it would create or channel a vengeful "Babalon" which will act out all the repressed-subconscious feminine energy which the catholic church and many Tele-evangelists are plagued by. I had a short glimpse at Jack Parson's writings and I had to say that personally I would prefer Sophia over her :D I don't know about Jack Parsons past with the feminine but as long as that suppression goes on those people will be plagued by their own creation. Conserving an old understanding conserves both the right and wrong and is no wonder that such people are plagued by Jezebel('s) and Babalon('s) (besides those who consciously channel those energies).



With regards to "Lucifer" being a singular spiritual being, it is entirely probably that there is one ancestral spirit who perhaps personifies this archetype more than any other, however since it is likely that the population of the spiritual world is billions of times the population of those in our own universe of light, there are likely to be myraids of Luciferian archetypes. With regards to the "Devil" this is a Saturnalian (death, restriction, judgement) archetype not a Luciferian (Venus) archetype; it is an entirely different astrological archetype, however the "Devil" archetype as opposed to the merely the natural Saturnalian archetype is associated with a malevolent deity (ancestral spirit) who is viewed as the enemy of humanity and the god of the Capitalists, tyrants, slavemasters etc.

As you've put it, Life is infinite and our terminology quite limited although I would prefer to think that what appears to us physically quite separate that it would unify as it goes higher (kind of pyramidal in a sense but also kaleidoscopic or close to fractal geometry). So in an archetypal sense I meant that Lucifer was likened to the Saturnalian archetype in old times due to the enormous gap between a spiritually "initiated" and "profane" populace also reflected as feminine/masculine conflict. Some say that the root Turkic people were from Venus although I can't support that from experience rather forward that as hear-say. This is probably one of the reason for the almost none existence of paternal oppression in those times within these tribes. Hence many things can be interpreted as the enemy of humanity especially in these days where it seems to be a virtue and an act of free will and democracy to eat the poison Burger with etheric body burner soda.
As Leo's possession goes he seems to reflect it somehow although not as pure as we have seen in other examples. The Messianic complex could be the spirit/entity/archetype talking through that body although some coloring still applies due to the body having a dictionary of its own so to speak.

It is a very common phenomenon in the study of religion; probably all the old religions and certainly all the major new cults that I am aware were founded at some point by someone like Leo. I do think that Leo considers himself to be resisting and opposing the current establishment; he is just going through a spiritual storm; what will become of him remains to be seen. Frankly such "spiritual storms" are common to those who dabble in experimental magick and necromancy; the person who practices necromancy generally risks their own sanity and can easily be drawn into a world of delusion anda realm where there subjective experience is almost impossible to explain to the world of "normal" people going about their daily lives.

Love and Light

Lux

Well I wouldn't dare claim that for any major religion rather because I didn't experience the climactic events leading towards such experiences. Although as far those go no one of the prophets claimed that they were one of the before. This rather seems unique to people that as you've put it dabble in experimental magick and necromancy. Since the infantile urge to be as a God is never tried during the process of at least Leo as far as is perceivable any deceiving entity could put him "under the spell" so to speak that he is becoming something and as such put him on the cycle of the delusional. Which is quite potent as much or perhaps even more as the cycle of the trance sleep of the majority of people. The major difference that puts such people of is their main belief that they still are a personality and a body which chains them to anything above that which they conceptually ignore but only functionally approve.

Peace and love

[lightgiver]

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/brat.jpg

Is that correct you went for the leading part of Pinocchio but failed the audition due to your acting being rather wooden :D

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2291/inwocardback.gif (http://img688.imageshack.us/i/inwocardback.gif/)

Are you still having your strings pulled.

[grandsecretary]

lightgiver, I am away this weekend making a film for a great deal of money. You however, will have nothing to do because nobody wants you, or needs you.

Leo Zagami

[luciferhorus]

I would stick to acting GS; you will probably be more successful at that than as a cult leader selling "degrees of knowledge," as your "act" is entirely transparent.

Lux

[grandsecretary]

I would stick to acting GS; you will probably be more successful at that than as a cult leader selling "degrees of knowledge," as your "act" is entirely transparent.

Lux

You do not have the choice. I do. :)

[lightgiver]

lightgiver, i am away this weekend making a film for a great deal of money. You however, will have nothing to do because nobody wants you, or needs you.

leo zagami

lol :D

My auntie reckons there are no pockets in shrouds.

I would get a job if I was you also,I cannot believe you get paid for your acting,it cannot be that good because who exactly has seen you in action.:confused:

they cannot be paying you that well ,you are still at it,and you spend most of your time on here,where exactly have you been acting in the last year.:D

where is that 2 minute clip you said you would post,still not seen it.

[grandsecretary]

She still speaks to you? I AM surprised.

[lightgiver]

She still speaks to you? I AM surprised.

It appears no one speaks to you ,you are never off here :confused:

do many attend you lodge on lodge nights.:)

BTW me and my auntie get on just fine.

[grandsecretary]

It appears no one speaks to you ,you are never off here :confused:

do many attend you lodge on lodge nights.:)

Do you know, every time you attack me you confirm that you have achieved nothing in YOUR life.

I would be more impressed if you came on here and told us about your successes, but you can't because you have not had any.

When you have the bottle to stand up on a live stage in front of 1200 or more of the paying public, and entertain them for 2 hours, I will listen to you.

Leo Zagami

[lightgiver]

Do you know, every time you attack me you confirm that you have achieved nothing in YOUR life.

I would be more impressed if you came on here and told us about your successes, but you can't because you have not had any.

When you have the bottle to stand up on a live stage in front of 1200 or more of the paying public, and entertain them for 2 hours, I will listen to you.

GS it is you dear fellow who instigates the attacks, do have a look at your posts,I am just blocking your attacks.:)

If you cant stand the heat then get out of the kitchen,

another 1 who can give it but cannot take it

why would I want to stand on a elevated platform,:confused: I have no wish to be above anyone.

why would I want to come on here and brag about impermanent success and achievements :confused:

You think standing on a stage requires bottle,maybe fighting the elites wars in foreign country's takes a lot more bottle.

I wouldn't really call it entertaining what you do,maybe for some.:)