Adam and Eve-forbid of tree of knowledge

[thelucifer]

God forbids Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge.

The Adepts/Perfected men (the god men) of Freemasonry (the all in one, Mystery Religion) forbids (hides/conceals) truth from the Profane (man and woman).



When I think of/look at (with the minds eye) the Bible I see an allegory, a symbol of hidden truth.

That book can NOT be judged by its cover.

[danielson23uk]

God forbids Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge.

The Adepts/Perfected men (the god men) of Freemasonry (the all in one, Mystery Religion) forbids (hides/conceals) truth from the Profane (man and woman).



When I think of/look at (with the minds eye) the Bible I see an allegory, a symbol of hidden truth.

That book can NOT be judged by its cover.

I read the above post several times in complete disbelief at quite how much a load of bollocks it really is. Thelucifer you must have spent hours making sure that it make no sense from any angle. You are to be congratulated on receiving 'The Jabbawocky Award' for the most nonsensical post of the month.

[jacob sladder]

I read the above post several times in complete disbelief at quite how much a load of bollocks it really is. Thelucifer you must have spent hours making sure that it make no sense from any angle. You are to be congratulated on receiving 'The Jabbawocky Award' for the most nonsensical post of the month.

Seconded, Danileson23uk...!

[perry_mason]

Motion passed.;)

[adramelech]

If Freemasons are "god men", humans are pretty well fucked.

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

God forbids Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge.

The Adepts/Perfected men (the god men) of Freemasonry (the all in one, Mystery Religion) forbids (hides/conceals) truth from the Profane (man and woman).



When I think of/look at (with the minds eye) the Bible I see an allegory, a symbol of hidden truth.

That book can NOT be judged by its cover.


The 'Truth' is not so much 'Hidden' as it is 'Ignored'.

It is the Tree of the Knowledge of Righteousness and Evil

The Tree of Life, is YHVHs Laws and Prophecies, which is His desire that Humankind embrace. Eternal Life, Righteousness only, no evil.


The Tree of the Knowledge of Righteousness and Evil is Satans Tree and her way of life; Carnal and Mortal

The world is currently experiencing life under the Tree of the Knowledge of Righteousness and Evil..


Biblicaly: Righteousness is defined as: Obedience to YHVH and His Laws

Sin is defined as: Transgressions of the Laws.

Evil may be defined as: Behaviour that harms oneself, and/or others.

[danielson23uk]

If Freemasons are "god men", humans are pretty well fucked.

Oooooh ! A late entry from adramelech for the coveted Jabbawocky Vase!

[thelucifer]

The 'Truth' is not so much 'Hidden' as it is 'Ignored'.

It is the Tree of the Knowledge of Righteousness and Evil

The Tree of Life, is YHVHs Laws and Prophecies, which is His desire that Humankind embrace. Eternal Life, Righteousness only, no evil.


The Tree of the Knowledge of Righteousness and Evil is Satans Tree and her way of life; Carnal and Mortal

The world is currently experiencing life under the Tree of the Knowledge of Righteousness and Evil..


Biblicaly: Righteousness is defined as: Obedience to YHVH and His Laws

Sin is defined as: Transgressions of the Laws.

Evil may be defined as: Behaviour that harms oneself, and/or others.


Yes, willingly ignorant, and hidden in plain sight.

Knowledge of good and bad, truth and lie, thats their game, they claim to have it while the profane dont and use it in a bad way.

Im curious, Satan and "her" way, are you saying Satan is female ?

As Paul said, there are 3 levels of understanding (which is what occult is all about), not just the face value.


adramelech, as I put it in another thread, the Washington Monument (obelisk/phallus) represents a monumental SCREWING.

[thelucifer]

Oooooh ! A late entry from adramelech for the coveted Jabbawocky Vase!



I dont expect a mason to be open with me, after all, you have sworn oathes of secrecy.

The tactics I see from masons is deflect and belittle.

I dont see those tactics as virtuous or clever.

Power and Honor lie not in secrecy.

[danielson23uk]

I dont expect a mason to be open with me, after all, you have sworn oathes of secrecy.

The tactics I see from masons is deflect and belittle.

I dont see those tactics as virtuous or clever.

Power and Honor lie not in secrecy.

I've already answered in another thread that our obligations are only towards our handshakes and passwords. If you'd rather not ask questions for fear of not getting the truth, that's up to you. I also made a promise on here that I will tell the truth.

[barney_rubble]

Motion passed.;)

Wait we need to vote in the usual masonic manner!

[danielson23uk]

Wait we new to vote in the usual masonic manner!

All those in favour, please signify in the usual manner as observed among Freemasons.
*All stand, get you willy out and wave it around singing "Davey! Davey Crocket! King of the Wild Frontier!"*

[barney_rubble]

All those in favour, please signify in the usual manner as observed among Freemasons.
*All stand, get you willy out and wave it around singing "Davey! Davey Crocket! King of the Wild Frontier!"*

LOL! Well you certainly do things differently on your side of the pond!
We generally just use a show of hands.

NOTE: There was a debate on another forum as to what the angle your arm should be, and whether it is palms up or palms down.
Some suggest palms-up for in favour (symbolically supporting it) and
palms-down for opposed (symbolically dropping it).
A silly discussion all around really. I have noticed about 1/2 of our lodges is using the palms-up/palms-down method.

[danielson23uk]

LOL! Well you certainly do things differently on your side of the pond!
We generally just use a show of hands.

NOTE: There was a debate on another forum as to what the angle your arm should be, and whether it is palms up or palms down.
Some suggest palms-up for in favour (symbolically supporting it) and
palms-down for opposed (symbolically dropping it).
A silly discussion all around really. I have noticed about 1/2 of our lodges is using the palms-up/palms-down method.

Sounds like the Davey Crockett method might get more debate!

[the duke]

Motion passed.;)

I passed a motion when I read it!!!

[the duke]

I dont expect a mason to be open with me, after all, you have sworn oathes of secrecy.

The tactics I see from masons is deflect and belittle.

I dont see those tactics as virtuous or clever.

Power and Honor lie not in secrecy.

You say "Power and Honour lie not in Secrecy", then please tell me your name, address and telephone number. You don't want to do you!?! You're thinking 'who is this guy and why does he want to know this?' I could be a criminal, a nut, or just an ordinary bloke!?! But you don't know this! That is why I would expect you to not completely open up to me until you know me and are completely sure of me!!! In the same way, I'm not gonna tell you what goes on in Lodge until i'm sure of you and you come well and worthily proposed and seconded by people I know. Why should I? You could be a criminal, a nut or just an ordinary bloke!

That is why there are secrets, for the simple fact that everybody protects their own interests against those they don't know. I bet my left bollock that everybody on this forum want to protect their private business from perceived intrusion from CCTV and data monitoring, so why can't Freemasons keep their business theirs as well?

I am not talking about the content of the secrets (because it's all too easy for you to shout 'you're up to dodgy stuff!' as, by definition, if it's a secret you don't actually know!) but rather the principle involved.

Comments?

[jacob sladder]

I passed a motion when I read it!!!

Thank you Duke! I have just spat my first cup of tea of the day over my keyboard!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D

[perry_mason]

I passed a motion when I read it!!!

I was hoping someone might get that one.

[thelucifer]

You say "Power and Honour lie not in Secrecy", then please tell me your name, address and telephone number. You don't want to do you!?! You're thinking 'who is this guy and why does he want to know this?' I could be a criminal, a nut, or just an ordinary bloke!?! But you don't know this! That is why I would expect you to not completely open up to me until you know me and are completely sure of me!!! In the same way, I'm not gonna tell you what goes on in Lodge until i'm sure of you and you come well and worthily proposed and seconded by people I know. Why should I? You could be a criminal, a nut or just an ordinary bloke!

That is why there are secrets, for the simple fact that everybody protects their own interests against those they don't know. I bet my left bollock that everybody on this forum want to protect their private business from perceived intrusion from CCTV and data monitoring, so why can't Freemasons keep their business theirs as well?


I am not talking about the content of the secrets (because it's all too easy for you to shout 'you're up to dodgy stuff!' as, by definition, if it's a secret you don't actually know!) but rather the principle involved.

Comments?


Actually, I dont care about who knows my name address etc, you see a fully brown Xmas tree was put in the back of my truck about 10 feet from my front door, surely you understand the symbology.
What a nice way to tell me they know where I am and how much they love me.

The Interests Freemasonry claims to protect is, knowledge of God and truth etc, of which Freemasonry denies me or anyone who wont or cant join the boys club.
Thats a lot different than not giving out ones name and address.

The most important stuff a human could possibly seek is denied for what good reason ?


And Im not going into the secret agenda, thats being played out here in USA/Washington DC.

[danielson23uk]

Actually, I dont care about who knows my name address etc, you see a fully brown Xmas tree was put in the back of my truck about 10 feet from my front door, surely you understand the symbology.
What a nice way to tell me they know where I am and how much they love me.
LMAO!:D So the nasty masons have a stockpile of out of date Xmas Trees to dump in peoples cars and gardens! You're laughable. Someone dumps an old Xmas tree in your truck and of course it's the masons! Not some guy 3 doors away who thinks you're a prick. Someone smashed my wing-mirror last month. Was that down to the nasty non-masons or was it a 'friendly fire' incident?

The Interests Freemasonry claims to protect is, knowledge of God and truth etc, of which Freemasonry denies me or anyone who wont or cant join the boys club.
Thats a lot different than not giving out ones name and address.

The most important stuff a human could possibly seek is denied for what good reason ?
Now that's just plain jealousy and, I suspect, the real reason for your contempt of Freemasons. Have you ever been denied an application? Are you not eligible?
I think you miss our point thelucifer. The attainment of the 'important stuff' is available without being a Freemason. Freemasonry just encourages the pursuit of them. What's wrong with that?

And Im not going into the secret agenda, thats being played out here in USA/Washington DC.
How can you if it's a secret?

[barney_rubble]

LMAO!:D So the nasty masons have a stockpile of out of date Xmas Trees to dump in peoples cars and gardens! You're laughable. Someone dumps an old Xmas tree in your truck and of course it's the masons! Not some guy 3 doors away who thinks you're a prick. Someone smashed my wing-mirror last month. Was that down to the nasty non-masons or was it a 'friendly fire' incident?


Now that's just plain jealousy and, I suspect, the real reason for your contempt of Freemasons. Have you ever been denied an application? Are you not eligible?
I think you miss our point thelucifer. The attainment of the 'important stuff' is available without being a Freemason. Freemasonry just encourages the pursuit of them. What's wrong with that?


How can you if it's a secret?


Trying to tell these guys/gals anything is like talking to my 7 year old son:
JUMP JUMP

"Hey stop jumping on the furniture is not made for that you might break it."

"OK"

Five minutes later, "Hey what did I just tell you?"

"not to jump on the funiture."

"Then why are you doing it."

"I don't know -- because it is fun?

versus

"You are hiding all the secrets from us that would help us know the truth!"

"No we are not we the truth is available to any ask us or read one of the many reliable books on the subject"

Five posts later, "You are hiding all the secrets from us that would help us know the truth!"

... etc., etc.,



Head let me introduce you to Brick Wall. Brick Wall this is Head. I am glad you two could meet.

[thelucifer]

LMAO!:D So the nasty masons have a stockpile of out of date Xmas Trees to dump in peoples cars and gardens! You're laughable. Someone dumps an old Xmas tree in your truck and of course it's the masons! Not some guy 3 doors away who thinks you're a prick. Someone smashed my wing-mirror last month. Was that down to the nasty non-masons or was it a 'friendly fire' incident?


Now that's just plain jealousy and, I suspect, the real reason for your contempt of Freemasons. Have you ever been denied an application? Are you not eligible?
I think you miss our point thelucifer. The attainment of the 'important stuff' is available without being a Freemason. Freemasonry just encourages the pursuit of them. What's wrong with that?


How can you if it's a secret?

Stockpile ? sure thats it.
Anything but an xmas tree and I wouldnt have thought anything of it.
Sure, there are pricks, but these pricks are of a special type.
No issues with my neighbors.

No, I have never applied or been denied.

Not jealous, just appalled, with sayings like, the profane can never really understand the higher truths etc.

I have worked hard in understanding what is going on in DC, funny how no one will converse openly about the subject, its like there is something to hide, like truth.

[the guy in pink]

Actually, I dont care about who knows my name address etc, you see a fully brown Xmas tree was put in the back of my truck about 10 feet from my front door, surely you understand the symbology.

I'm sorry I must be very thick: I don't get it , maybe is because I'm from warm climates: What is the symbology?

[thelucifer]

I'm sorry I must be very thick: I don't get it , maybe is because I'm from warm climates: What is the symbology?


You, of course, know what it means, but I'll entertain your question in a simplistic way for you.

The green tree represents life, good etc.

The tree, in a brown state, represents lifelessness, bad etc.


Just a stupid way of saying nothing good towards me.
Was it Freemasonry that put it there ? no.
Freemason(s) ? I can only imagine so.


I must say, I respect the religion of Freemasonry more so than any other.
The problem is the nature of the beast, secrecy and rejection (not that I have been rejected in any way).

[perry_mason]

The green tree represents life, good etc.

The tree, in a brown state, represents lifelessness, bad etc.

Just a stupid way of saying nothing good towards me.
Was it Freemasonry that put it there ? no.
Freemason(s) ? I can only imagine so..

Precisely.

I expect Masons regularly dump dead leaves on you lawn in the autumn as well: the dead leaves representing... well, it's obvious isn't it?

[thelucifer]

Precisely.

I expect Masons regularly dump dead leaves on you lawn in the autumn as well: the dead leaves representing... well, it's obvious isn't it?

Your response is somewhat childish and insulting to my ability of reason via circumstance and suspicion.

I guess I dont expect otherwise.

My goal is truth, yours seems to be just protecting the club.

According to you should I never put any stock in my ability of such reasoning ?
Im willing to admit I could be wrong out right, are you willing to admit I could be right ?

[perry_mason]

Your response is somewhat childish and insulting to my ability of reason via circumstance and suspicion.

I guess I dont expect otherwise.

My goal is truth, yours seems to be just protecting the club.

According to you should I never put any stock in my ability of such reasoning ?
Im willing to admit I could be wrong out right, are you willing to admit I could be right ?

Do Masons spread dead leaves on your lawn? You could draw just as much from that as you could a dead Xmas tree being dumped there. Likewise a couch, old tire, crisp packets etc. I expect that if anyone wanted to do you harm they would, and not just leave cryptic clues on your doorstep.

If you think the logical reason for someone fly tipping on your property is that you have aggravated some kind of vendetta with dark forces then no, I would not put much stock in your deductive capabilities. Sorry to be blunt, but you asked.

Of course it could be possible that you are right but you have ignored several logical and plausible explanations in favour of far-fetched fantasies.

[intruder]

If Freemasons are "god men", humans are pretty well fucked.


more like comic X-Men

[thelucifer]

Kicked out of the garden, is when some thought they were holier and smarter than others and when the elitest high arsholes decided to exclude regular folk from truth.
Protecting their eden via secrecy and lies, the two swords.

Crimes against humanity, via religion, power and controll.

[thelucifer]

Do Masons spread dead leaves on your lawn? You could draw just as much from that as you could a dead Xmas tree being dumped there. Likewise a couch, old tire, crisp packets etc. I expect that if anyone wanted to do you harm they would, and not just leave cryptic clues on your doorstep.

If you think the logical reason for someone fly tipping on your property is that you have aggravated some kind of vendetta with dark forces then no, I would not put much stock in your deductive capabilities. Sorry to be blunt, but you asked.

Of course it could be possible that you are right but you have ignored several logical and plausible explanations in favour of far-fetched fantasies.


And how do you know I ignored anything ? you dont.
To the contrary, timing etc was very telling, but hey, what do I know, you somehow know better.

Actually my conclusion, is very reasonable, considering what I know about timing etc.

[perry_mason]

And how do you know I ignored anything ? you dont.
To the contrary, timing etc was very telling, but hey, what do I know, you somehow know better.

Actually my conclusion, is very reasonable, considering what I know about timing etc.

I know that Freemasons don't have mass-littering rallies in which brown Xmas trees are ceremoniously dumped on lawns.

Your conclusion is viable based on your knowledge of timing and etc.! Your knowledge of etc.!? What does that mean? Was this tree perhaps dumped after Xmas?: What does that symbolise?

[thelucifer]

I know that Freemasons don't have mass-littering rallies in which brown Xmas trees are ceremoniously dumped on lawns.

Your conclusion is viable based on your knowledge of timing and etc.! Your knowledge of etc.!? What does that mean? Was this tree perhaps dumped after Xmas?: What does that symbolise?


How does one (since I have NOT even hinted of it happening to anyone else!!!) become "mass" ?

I'd say nice try, but its not even.

Here's the problem without fail as I converse with Masons,
1. you try to CONvince me of something to which you know not !
i.e. theres no way it can be reasonable for me to conclude via circumstances in my life (you dont know me), as to who and why an xmas tree was givin to me, as a message.
2. you try to convince me that I dont see and know what I see and know, i.e. the DC stuff, even when one of your own admits, whether veiled or not.


So, you know better about conlusions via happenings in my life and I dont see and know what I see (and Im a hard realist) and know !!

WOW, now thats good.
Not.



Is it possible for me to be straight up wrong about everything, as you guys would have it ??

If maybe, once in a while one of you guys would say something like, well, you could be right and or, I dont really have a good answer etc, but that simply never happens, never.
Your works prove you.

[perry_mason]

I never tried to say it didn't happen thelucifer, I'm saying that the idea that it was done by Masons as part of a vendetta is deluded and frankly ridiculous.

The bit about 'mass-littering' was sarcasm. Oh, and I want to hear more of your knowledge of "etc." and how that led to your conclusion that Masons are persecuting you through the medium of arboreal assault.

[thelucifer]

I never tried to say it didn't happen thelucifer, I'm saying that the idea that it was done by Masons as part of a vendetta is deluded and frankly ridiculous.

The bit about 'mass-littering' was sarcasm. Oh, and I want to hear more of your knowledge of "etc." and how that led to your conclusion that Masons are persecuting you through the medium of arboreal assault.


I know youre not saying the tree wasnt put there, but that a Mason(s) didnt do it.

Deluded and ridiculous !

Funny how you can know that, even though you have never known me or the events/circumstances in my life in those days (timing etc !).

Timing etc !
Ive been trying to avoid a long drawn out post.
In the early days of my awakening I began confronting Masons. I was not in confrontation with anyone else.
I even went to the state fair, to the Masonic booth and layed my map down on their table and hammered heads with the three wise men for 45 minutes. The one in charge (Jeff) was very upset with me, he started telling me a story and while telling the story took a piece of masonic stationary and drew an octagon and then wrote the word "stop" in it.
I grabbed that piece of paper and still have it.
He eventually got mad enough that he walked away from me, leaving the other two to deal with me.
I wasnt loud and rude, just in their face, in front of all.
The map I had with me was 11" X 17", which is large.
Jeff (all three 32nd degree) said to me "Freemasonry has nothing to do with Washington DC", now thats a bold faced lie.
The next year I put the map (10" X 13") on the back of my t shirt (via iron on) and went by the booth.
The following 3rd year I went there and the booth was not there and has not been there since, Im sure its there somewhere, I just havent come across it yet, I havent looked very hard, I made my point, Im not affraid of them.

I never implied the tree incident was a threat of harm or persecution, just a message, an interesting way of saying how much Im loved.

Coincidence ?
I have no good reason to believe so.

I am not implying it was Jeff either.

And because I didnt catch whoever did it, Im (in all honesty) willing to admit its possible a mason or friend thereof, didnt do it, but like I said, understanding timing etc makes that coincidence a large pill to swallow.

Honesty and truth is what I care about, I dont hate Masons either.

I say, to hate one (person) is to hate all.

I must add, I have yet to come across a Mason who is willing to be honest with me. ALL deny everything I put forth.
As if Im wrong about everthing !
Even in light of some, like Elias, who, confirms, at least in part in a off handed way, the truth of DC and masonic involvment.
The HORNS are the most clear part of the whole thing, yet, theyre not there, right ??

[barney_rubble]

I think some individual(s) on this forum have stopped taking their lithium.

[the guy in pink]

I think some individual(s) on this forum have stopped taking their lithium.

The thing I don't get is why some guys get so passionate about what may or may not be Masonic symbols in a street map.

Thelucifer, what difference does it make to your life if there some town is laid out (accidentally or deliberately) with a few Masonic symbols?

How do you think it might affect me, living as I do on a different continent in a different Hemisphere to that town?

[chrism]

How do you think it might affect me, living as I do on a different continent in a different Hemisphere to that town?

Or as I put in another thread, are people walking down the streets of Washington suddenly seized by an urge to roll up their trouser leg because of the symbols?

I do think that you can find a symbol anywhere when you look for it - just look at the constellations of the zodiac - but whether that means anything is a different matter.

Chrism

[barney_rubble]

The thing I don't get is why some guys get so passionate about what may or may not be Masonic symbols in a street map.

Thelucifer, what difference does it make to your life if there some town is laid out (accidentally or deliberately) with a few Masonic symbols?

How do you think it might affect me, living as I do on a different continent in a different Hemisphere to that town?

The answer is obvious as ashur said in another thread:
Originally Posted by the ashur

...

Someone also noted what is the point of them designing the structure of the cities and not claiming credit for it, that it doesn't seem masonic and what difference does it make. First it's not their wisdom they are using, but something that was handed down to them. They didn't discover that. Second it's not like a dog pissing to claim it's territory. It's like a spider creating a web for it's prey. You may notice the pyramids for example are not just randomly built, but serve a function for directing energy. So too does the designing of structures within a city or society direct and influence, the vibration and energy effecting the people who live within those structures.


The "vibration and energy" from any such design will "[effect] the people who live within those structures" by a "directing energy".

It is clear to me now. I am being controlled by the city in which I live and work.

[chrism]

The "vibration and energy" from any such design will "[effect] the people who live within those structures" by a "directing energy".

It is clear to me now. I am being controlled by the city in which I live and work.

Let me be the first to say: 'Bollocks!'

Thank you.

Chrism

[the guy in pink]

It is clear to me now. I am being controlled by the city in which I live and work.
Then move - go and live in the countryside and raise goats !

[barney_rubble]

Then move - go and live in the countryside and raise goats !

Goats! GOATS!? Why did you mention goats?

Are not goats another masonic initiatory mind controling tool used to ....


Besides I don't like goat's milk.
NOTE: This post contains sarcasm to illustrate a point. Reader discretion is advised. (I am going to have to make this my signature)

[the guy in pink]

The "vibration and energy" from any such design will "[effect] the people who live within those structures" by a "directing energy".

It is clear to me now. I am being controlled by the city in which I live and work.

I guess if you believe in these thing they may indeed affect you.

Like a belief in Satin if you believe in him and that he a
has power over you , it may affect your life.
Because I do not believe in 'the Devil' I sort of have cut him off at the knees. He can no power over me if I have no belief in his so called powers.

[thelucifer]

The thing I don't get is why some guys get so passionate about what may or may not be Masonic symbols in a street map.[QUOTE]

I know you dont, lest I should believe you are knowingly involved, with the ultimate corruption the world has ever seen nor will ever see, as aluded to (through "prphecy") via the "hill" (Capital Hill - Novus Ordo Seclorum) that Satan is on , in the New Testament story (which of course is from the older religions Zoroaster etc, good and evil battle for the end age)
I dont care who (Freemasonry or whoever) it is, that, in the end result, matters not.


[QUOTE=the guy in pink;339606]Thelucifer, what difference does it make to your life if there some town is laid out (accidentally or deliberately) with a few Masonic symbols?

1. I am forced to pay taxes to fund this abomination that is going on via DC/America !!!
(if that aint enough, in and of itself)
2. It (DC beast), is set up in absolute opposition to all that I am, all I live and stand for.
3. The fact I have to watch (release) my son (or anyone) go into this slavery, tares at my very being greatly.



How do you think it might affect me, living as I do on a different continent in a different Hemisphere to that town?


Lets assume you might care !
1. even though you are part of the club
2. even though you have sworn oaths to protect that club,
the story of Satan on the hill, simply put, is about a world power, which by definition, includes you, nomatter what you dont want to understand or care about.
To understand DC is to understand that world power (Novus Ordo Seclorum), Satan/Mystery Religion, to which Freemasonry is.

“Freemasonry is the survivor of the ancient mysteries - nay, we may go further and call it the guardian of the mysteries”

Bro. J.S.M.Ward. 'Freemasonry and the ancient gods' 347

It affects you now and forever, directly and indirectly, in more than one way (verily verily!!), the "forever" word should be of importance most of all, by all, its a really long time to know you screwed up here !!!!!!!




The end result is if I (or anyone, in America [which came via Britian], onto the world) dont accept the mark of the beast I cant buy (food, housing etc) or sell (work, earn a living) which equals jail or death !!!!
You joking and making light (turn a blind Eye) of the matter is a terriblly sad sight to behold.


Really, I could on and on, into the meat of the matters via your post alone, but I shall end it here,

the best I can do is look for truth and then stand for it, the DC beast, Satan (as spoken of via the New Testament language), is very simple to see and understand, and it IS via Freemasonry.

[chrism]

[QUOTE=the guy in pink;339606]The thing I don't get is why some guys get so passionate about what may or may not be Masonic symbols in a street map.[QUOTE]

I know you dont, lest I should believe you are knowingly involved, with the ultimate corruption the world has ever seen nor will ever see, as aluded to (through "prphecy") via the "hill" (Capital Hill - Novus Ordo Seclorum) that Satan is on , in the New Testament story (which of course is from the older religions Zoroaster etc, good and evil battle for the end age)
I dont care who (Freemasonry or whoever) it is, that, in the end result, matters not.




1. I am forced to pay taxes to fund this abomination that is going on via DC/America !!!
(if that aint enough, in and of itself)
2. It (DC beast), is set up in absolute opposition to all that I am, all I live and stand for.
3. The fact I have to watch (release) my son (or anyone) go into this slavery, tares at my very being greatly.






Lets assume you might care !
1. even though you are part of the club
2. even though you have sworn oaths to protect that club,
the story of Satan on the hill, simply put, is about a world power, which by definition, includes you, nomatter what you dont want to understand or care about.
To understand DC is to understand that world power (Novus Ordo Seclorum), Satan/Mystery Religion, to which Freemasonry is.

“Freemasonry is the survivor of the ancient mysteries - nay, we may go further and call it the guardian of the mysteries”

Bro. J.S.M.Ward. 'Freemasonry and the ancient gods' 347

It affects you now and forever, directly and indirectly, in more than one way (verily verily!!), the "forever" word should be of importance most of all, by all.




The end result is if I (or anyone, in America [which came via Britian], onto the world) dont accept the mark of the beast I cant buy (food, housing etc) or sell (work, earn a living) which equals jail or death !!!!
You joking and making light (turn a blind Eye) of the matter is a terriblly sad sight to behold.


Really, I could on and on, into the meat of the matters via your post alone, but I shall end it here,

the best I can do is look for truth and then stand for it, the DC beast, Satan (as spoken of via the New Testament language), is very simple to see and understand, and it IS via Freemasonry.

OK - I am trying to see what you are saying here but am having difficulty... Help me out?

This thread was going on about the layout of a street plan. Not I can see that you may believe that by forcing the world to use the US dollar everyone is forced to bow to the masters in Washington (not that I agree) but how is walking on the streets subverting or coercing people into masonry?

If you think this affecting people on a spiritual level, fair enough, but otherwise I am still finding it hard to see the point...

On a second point, please could you explain why you believe Masonry is part of a satanic conspiracy? I have been here too long to expect any proof, but why you have come to that conclusion would be an insight.

Cheers,

Chrism

EDIT - I can't work out how to sort this post so it reads well (or even in English) so please use your imagination or give up (like I did).

[thelucifer]

[QUOTE=thelucifer;339978][QUOTE=the guy in pink;339606][COLOR=black]forcing the world to use the US dollar

Sorry about mixing the post up, I tried to straighten it out via edit.

I didnt make mention of the Dollar bill.

[chrism]

[QUOTE=chrism;339993][QUOTE=thelucifer;339978]

Sorry about mixing the post up, I tried to straighten it out via edit.

I didnt make mention of the Dollar bill.

Sorry - I interpreted 'mark of the beast' wrong, thought you meant everyone was forced to use the currency.

I am a bit green when it comes to the spiritual stuff, so please forgive the confusion. Never been one for the bible - I prefer Terry Pratchett and Tom Sharpe for my fiction! read into that what you will...

The question about the street planning still stands though, if that is OK.

Kind regards

Chrism

[thelucifer]

[QUOTE=thelucifer;339996][QUOTE=chrism;339993]fiction!

Yes, on face (the 1st level) value, for the masses.

As Albert Pike says, the "simple" language, for the masses.


As Paul (the Apostle) says, there are 3 levels.

[thelucifer]

The answer is obvious as ashur said in another thread:


The "vibration and energy" from any such design will "[effect] the people who live within those structures" by a "directing energy".


Thats utter nonsense.

[thelucifer]

I guess if you believe in these thing they may indeed affect you.

Like a belief in Satin if you believe in him and that he a
has power over you , it may affect your life.
Because I do not believe in 'the Devil' I sort of have cut him off at the knees. He can no power over me if I have no belief in his so called powers.


affect you !
only in mind over body i.e. your mind over your body.

Satan is not a concious freewill entity, it is a inanimate symbol for an agenda/religion.

[thelucifer]

[QUOTE=thelucifer;339996][QUOTE=chrism;339993]The question about the street planning still stands though, if that is OK.



You being a Mason, should especialy understand my answer.

The street planing is a symbol, for something.
The symbol is inanimate, harmless in and of itself.
The concept/action behind its conception is not though.


Symbols, while concealing, reveal via the language/art of symbology, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear, as is said.


Is it a game to say, why the streets/symbols when the thing for which the symbol represents, is the issue, and just about all Masons would know that ?
And Im just using the example of 1 symbol, not symbol on symbol etc.

[the guy in pink]

..Lets assume you might care !
1. even though you are part of the club
2. even though you have sworn oaths to protect that club,
the story of Satan on the hill, simply put, is about a world power, which by definition, includes you, nomatter what you dont want to understand or care about.
To understand DC is to understand that world power (Novus Ordo Seclorum), Satan/Mystery Religion, to which Freemasonry is.

Where I live we have thunderstorms and lightening in summer, and every year about 5 thatch dwellings are struck and burn to the ground, sometimes with the occupants inside. And every year 5 old women are declared to be the witches who sent the lightening and they are burned alive in their houses.

It looks to me that we only have substitue the name Venda for Washington and witches for Freemasons. Superstition remains the same in USA or Darkest Africa -it's the product on poor science.

[eternal_spirit]

This is an interesting story about Adam and Eve

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...ht=lilith+nuit (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19472&highlight=lilith+nuit)

[barney_rubble]

Originally Posted by barney_rubble
The answer is obvious as ashur said in another thread:

The "vibration and energy" from any such design will "[effect] the people who live within those structures" by a "directing energy".

Originally Posted by thelucifer
Thats utter nonsense.

AGREED!

[barney_rubble]

OK I am going to be guilty of a cut and paste post but .... well it is to the point.

Below are not my words but I do wholeheartedly agree.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

“Masons designed Washington, DC!” Websites trumpet this ‘news’ in huge red letters on black and a forbidding background. Postings to Internet newsgroups point fingers accusingly and demand ‘an answer’ – or for Masons to prove that they didn’t.

It’s no secret and Masons are proud to trumpet, often in a greatly exaggerated way, that members of the Fraternity were active during the War for Independence in the United States. It’s also well known that some of the brightest and most remembered men of that age were involved in the initial establishment of the government. (The oft-repeated claim that all of Washington’s Generals or that most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence are exaggerations that simply won’t die!) During and following the American Revolution, a large percentage of the population were Masons but to writers today, the reasons for this seem somehow unimaginable. (Those with an interest in this 'phenomena' are referred to Stephen Bullock's "Revolutionary Brotherhood".)

In 1999, “The Secret Architecture of Our Nation’s Capital” was first published – oddly, considering the title, in Great Britain. Written by David Ovason, an astrologer whose other works included two books about Nostradamus (one of which trumpets his discovery of a secret language which had eluded all other researchers and the other, published AFTER the horrific events of September 11th, 2001 in New York claims to have now found a quatrain which foretold the event!). It’s also important, we feel, to remind readers that an astronomer is one who is trained in science to understand the heavens; an astrologer is one who, perhaps even self-taught, determines what a person’s life will be by the position of the constellations at the time of their birth – a fortune teller. None of Mr. Ovason's books reveal his education. Perhaps there's a reason?

When 'our little friends’ on the Internet became aware of this book’s title, they immediately began to shout that this was the final proof of all of Masonic conspiracy. Ignoring both the book's actual contents as well as the author's credentials (or lack thereof) they immediately began to create all sorts of fanciful theories. They trumpeted the ‘approval’ of Freemasonry as evidenced by the preface written by C. Fred Kleinknecht, 33°, the Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern (US) Scottish Rite Jurisdiction. If the ‘heir’ to Albert Pike would write an introduction to this book, this “proved” that Freemasons designed Washington, D.C.

Well, not quite! However before we proceed, it’s important to understand the significance of this claim that Masons designed Washington. On its face, it actually seems quite complimentary to the Fraternity and to many it would be met with a response of “So what?” Well, here's what: for those with over-developed imaginations, it’s a fearsome threat. To them, this ‘fact’ proves beyond any doubt their fears of a horrid Masonic conspiracy which – depending on the individual – may take a variety of forms. Some – ignoring the three hundred year experience of Freemasonry encouraging freedom – argue that it is now clear Freemasonry is hell-bent on world conquest: that the ‘signs’ implanted in the Washington street layout along with that eye in the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill are the final proof. (Good thing they figured it out in 2000 after a couple of hundred years, isn’t it?)

Others, taking their imaginations even further, note that the layout is proof that aliens from outer space influenced Masons who designed it. Laugh if you will but for some, this is desperately real and they’re convinced beyond any explanation. Those who’ve read this site for some time will recall our reporting that the huge Square and Compass placed in front of the George Washington National Masonic Memorial was opined by some as being the marker for the landing of the spacecraft at midnight on 1/1/2000 with the increase in postal rates to 33cents just preceding that as a forewarning. (Our friend and Brother Harry Lyons was there on Shooter's Hill in Virginia at the Memorial at midnight that night: alas, no spaceship - or at least that's what he's saying publicly!)

And for the religious zealots, this ‘design’ in the street plan is a signal for all that the Masons are establishing a secret religion which will pave the way for the coming of the anti-Christ. Again, we’re a bit confused since the design has been there for a couple of hundred years and no one has seen the anti-Christ or any Masonic religion appear yet - but why let facts get into the way of a good yarn, eh?

The Masonic connection is further emphasized by the introduction (a foreword, actually) written by C. Fred Klienknecht – and anti-Masons have made much of it. After reading their breathless claims for more than two years while awaiting US publication, it came as quite a shock to see what was actually written. The Sovereign Grand Commander writes that he sees a similarity ONLY between a ceiling design recommended by Pike for a lodge (containing the constellations and planets) and the other constellation designs Ovason has found scattered in various statuary throughout Washington DC. ‘endorsement’ of this work, it's pretty weak. Here's the Grand Commander's last sentence of his foreword: “His thesis may be controversial, but it is well thought out and presented.” If that’s what anti-Masons believe is unqualified support, it may be because they've unfamiliar with what a true endorsement looks like. Guess in the workplace, they've never had the cause to get one....

And it was also to our surprise that Mr. Ovason seems quite uninterested in any of the theories as to why Masons would have gone to such great lengths to ‘embed’ a message into the design of the capital city. His imagination about what Masons ostensibly know, however, seems boundless and aids in his fantasy at every turn. He writes in his Acknowledgement, “My thanks go to all those Masons and Masonic Lodges of present time who have helped me with questions which must surely have amused those privy to the deeper secrets.” And so, on this presumption, the book moves forward.

It was on Page 9 when the first of many, many unsubstantiated claims came leaping forth. In glancing through the book prior to reading, we'd noted nearly 70 pages of tightly-spaced footnotes. Surely these would at least allow us to follow through on the author's claims, right? But yet, he begins a discussion about the land on which Washington DC now stands and notes wishfully that the ownership by John Pope would be pleasant historically (in some sort of cosmically-ordained way, apparently) if that individual was related to John Pope who had settled in Massachusetts in 1630. He notes that John (from Dorchester) was ‘a distant forbear’ of the architect John Russell Pope. Footnote for his source? Not a chance!

It's a popular technique in 'popular' literature surrounding Freemasonry today. Similar to the very popular Hiram Key, Mr. Ovason makes a fanciful assumption and then later uses this to buttress yet another of his own theories.

In truth, anyone looking at the early layout of Washington, DC can, with a bit of imagination, see the design of a square and compass. That these are the implements used by Freemasonry to remind members to circumscribe their desires and keep their passions within due bounds with all mankind is undeniable. Just as undeniable, however, is that operative architects have used such implements for thousands of years and some of them surely must have been inspired by their grace and practical applications of their tools - even if they'd never joined the fraternity of Freemasons. But wait: that's not what Ovason is writing about: it's VIRGO!!!!! Yes, the thrust of this book is about the number of things that someone can play 'connect the dots' with and come up with a rough approximation of what the constellation Virgo looks like.

Here's an example: “The cornerstone for the Washington Monument was laid at the northeast corner of the foundation in the early afternoon of July 4, 1848. As I have indicated, probably one reason why the Masons chose to lay the stone in the afternoon was because they wished to allow the all-important Virgo to become operative in the chart. Shortly before lunchtime on that day, the Moon went into Virgo." Probably? Why? Footnote? Naw....

Virgo, it seems, is everywhere. "In fact, there was another Virgoan influence in this chart which might be missed by someone not familiar with the workings of astrology. The all-important Dragon’s Head in the 1848 chart is in 25 degrees of Virgo."

And yet, while Mr. Ovason wants to tie the Masons to the Virgo designs, he seems remarkably uninformed about who is a Mason and who isn't. He writes about Pierre L'Enfant, the original designer of Washington, “Later, he undertook special duties for Washington in France, where (almost certainly being a Mason) he organized a branch of the Society of Cincinnati, for which he designed its emblem.” Aha! A footnote: surely this will provide enlightenment to support his parenthetical assertion. What do we find? A footnote stating: “It is very likely that L’Enfant was a Mason.” <SIGH> In addition, he glibly identifies Vinnie Ream (a sculptress and close friend of Albert Pike) and Madame Blavatsky as Masons. So much for scrupulous research....

Talking about the George Washington Monument, Mr. Ovason writes “In spite of such delays and setbacks, a considerable change of vision was required to move from so thoroughly a neoclassical design as a horse-rider, to an obelisk which was essentially Egyptian in spirit. Historical documents indicate that this change was directed by Masons. Furthermore, not only was the form of the monument different from that anticipated by L’Enfant, it was not even sited in the position he had visualized.” Alas, yet again not a single footnoted anything to explain how Ovason has come to the conclusion it was directed by Masons (of the 'Freemason' variety)!

There are constant references to various parties being “keen astronomers” but Mr. Ovason apparently doesn't understand or appreciate the essential part astronomy played in military (and most especially naval) science of the day. The 'important people' of those times were, for the most part, military men: whether their service involved moving troops across land or handling ships across water, there was an ongoing reliance upon celestial navigation and it thus stands to reason that the level of understanding of astronomy in those days would be far, far greater than it is today. The author is apparently oblivious to the fact that even today, naval officers learn celestial navigation but that two hundred years ago, long before printing was readily available and maps were even marginally reliable, anyone who was responsible for military troops, surveying, foresting, exploring or a whole host of other occupations (including farming) would certainly be a 'keen astronomer'. There was no 'radar weather' to give wrong predictions so even those tending animals in the most remote regions would need, of necessity, be 'keen astronomers'.

We found it particularly interesting that Ovason's work makes much of the year 1881 (Trithemian doctrine of planetary angels) and claims (without substantiation) that occultists were alert to the critical importance of that year of change. However, because Pike was not particularly interested in that year, Mr. Ovason dismisses this lack of interest by saying that “...his attention must have been on other things.” Convenient, isn't it?

He makes broad statements unsupported by fact. Here's but one example: “By contrast, the astrological conditions pertaining to the ritual of the cornerstone were rarely made public. This was nothing to do with “Masonic secrecy” – it was merely a continuation of an ancient tradition.” One supposes that it's awfully difficult to make things public when they were likely never thought of - but that's much too mundane obviously.

Three hundred and fifty plus pages later and but three pages from the end of the book, we find this revealing commentary:

"It is not possible to work as a historian in the United States today without observing the understandable doubts which some Christian religious groups have concerning esotericism. If, as a Christian myself, I may venture an opinion in this context, it is that the Bible appears to have been written in such a way as to accommodate the understanding of a vast range of different beliefs, most of which find a meeting point in the seminal Mystery of the Christian religion, which is the Resurrection. Among this range of beliefs is one that might be typified as Christian esotericism, which approaches Christian texts and traditions in the light of hermetic thought. Generally speaking, an informed and well-intended analysis of esoteric Christianity is unlikely to unearth beliefs which conflict in any significant way with the traditions pertaining to the hallowed Mysteries of Christianity, or with the great cosmic and moral truths we find in the Bible. Beyond offering keys to such Mysteries, Christianity is a moral force, which should be capable of harboring a wide variety of opinions, and which should not harbor hatreds – especially hatreds directed at communalities of beliefs, in which differences are often peripheral or minor.

I introduce this thought because, given certain reactions to my previous works, I suspect that misunderstandings may arise about what I have and have not claimed in this present book. I have been surprised by the number of people who have taken it upon themselves to criticize some of my earlier writings without having done me the courtesy of reading what I have written. The general tenor of such criticism seems to arise from the misconception that any hermetic idea must be in some way diabolic, or linked with black magic. This is completely untrue.

In view of such misunderstandings, I would like to make it quite clear that I am not for one moment suggesting that it was “the Masons who built Washington, D.C.,” or that Mason’s Lodges ever had a coordinated, formulated plan to influence the growth of the city in any way. <Emphasis added> As a careful reading of this text will have indicated, I am claiming merely that Washington, D.C., was designed and built on Christian hermetic principles derived from, or linked with, ancient cosmological ideas. In exploring this truth, I observe that some of the people involved in the building of the city, besides being architects, planners and artists, happened also to be Masons. I am reasonably sure that in just about every case these individuals were also committed Christians. It would be patently absurd (if only because it is so obvious) for me to labor the point that Washington, D.C., was built by Christians.”

So what's all the fuss about? Who knows.... It's certainly clear from reading this work that this book is FAR from the proof of any nefarious deeds or plans by Masons or Masonry. That will not, of course, stop anti-Masons from making their ridiculous claims.

After having read both this work as well as Mr. Ovason's The Secrets of Nostradamus. we can only suggest that having found that remarkable prediction of the terrorist attacks on New York after they happened, this is not an author we'll follow further - and not a book we'd recommend.

[thelucifer]

OK I am going to be guilty of a cut and paste post but .... well it is to the point.

Below are not my words but I do wholeheartedly agree.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

“Masons designed Washington, DC!” Websites trumpet this ‘news’ in huge red letters on black and a forbidding background. Postings to Internet newsgroups point fingers accusingly and demand ‘an answer’ – or for Masons to prove that they didn’t.

It’s no secret and Masons are proud to trumpet, often in a greatly exaggerated way, that members of the Fraternity were active during the War for Independence in the United States. It’s also well known that some of the brightest and most remembered men of that age were involved in the initial establishment of the government. (The oft-repeated claim that all of Washington’s Generals or that most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence are exaggerations that simply won’t die!) During and following the American Revolution, a large percentage of the population were Masons but to writers today, the reasons for this seem somehow unimaginable. (Those with an interest in this 'phenomena' are referred to Stephen Bullock's "Revolutionary Brotherhood".)

In 1999, “The Secret Architecture of Our Nation’s Capital” was first published – oddly, considering the title, in Great Britain. Written by David Ovason, an astrologer whose other works included two books about Nostradamus (one of which trumpets his discovery of a secret language which had eluded all other researchers and the other, published AFTER the horrific events of September 11th, 2001 in New York claims to have now found a quatrain which foretold the event!). It’s also important, we feel, to remind readers that an astronomer is one who is trained in science to understand the heavens; an astrologer is one who, perhaps even self-taught, determines what a person’s life will be by the position of the constellations at the time of their birth – a fortune teller. None of Mr. Ovason's books reveal his education. Perhaps there's a reason?

When 'our little friends’ on the Internet became aware of this book’s title, they immediately began to shout that this was the final proof of all of Masonic conspiracy. Ignoring both the book's actual contents as well as the author's credentials (or lack thereof) they immediately began to create all sorts of fanciful theories. They trumpeted the ‘approval’ of Freemasonry as evidenced by the preface written by C. Fred Kleinknecht, 33°, the Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern (US) Scottish Rite Jurisdiction. If the ‘heir’ to Albert Pike would write an introduction to this book, this “proved” that Freemasons designed Washington, D.C.

Well, not quite! However before we proceed, it’s important to understand the significance of this claim that Masons designed Washington. On its face, it actually seems quite complimentary to the Fraternity and to many it would be met with a response of “So what?” Well, here's what: for those with over-developed imaginations, it’s a fearsome threat. To them, this ‘fact’ proves beyond any doubt their fears of a horrid Masonic conspiracy which – depending on the individual – may take a variety of forms. Some – ignoring the three hundred year experience of Freemasonry encouraging freedom – argue that it is now clear Freemasonry is hell-bent on world conquest: that the ‘signs’ implanted in the Washington street layout along with that eye in the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill are the final proof. (Good thing they figured it out in 2000 after a couple of hundred years, isn’t it?)

Others, taking their imaginations even further, note that the layout is proof that aliens from outer space influenced Masons who designed it. Laugh if you will but for some, this is desperately real and they’re convinced beyond any explanation. Those who’ve read this site for some time will recall our reporting that the huge Square and Compass placed in front of the George Washington National Masonic Memorial was opined by some as being the marker for the landing of the spacecraft at midnight on 1/1/2000 with the increase in postal rates to 33cents just preceding that as a forewarning. (Our friend and Brother Harry Lyons was there on Shooter's Hill in Virginia at the Memorial at midnight that night: alas, no spaceship - or at least that's what he's saying publicly!)

And for the religious zealots, this ‘design’ in the street plan is a signal for all that the Masons are establishing a secret religion which will pave the way for the coming of the anti-Christ. Again, we’re a bit confused since the design has been there for a couple of hundred years and no one has seen the anti-Christ or any Masonic religion appear yet - but why let facts get into the way of a good yarn, eh?

The Masonic connection is further emphasized by the introduction (a foreword, actually) written by C. Fred Klienknecht – and anti-Masons have made much of it. After reading their breathless claims for more than two years while awaiting US publication, it came as quite a shock to see what was actually written. The Sovereign Grand Commander writes that he sees a similarity ONLY between a ceiling design recommended by Pike for a lodge (containing the constellations and planets) and the other constellation designs Ovason has found scattered in various statuary throughout Washington DC. ‘endorsement’ of this work, it's pretty weak. Here's the Grand Commander's last sentence of his foreword: “His thesis may be controversial, but it is well thought out and presented.” If that’s what anti-Masons believe is unqualified support, it may be because they've unfamiliar with what a true endorsement looks like. Guess in the workplace, they've never had the cause to get one....

And it was also to our surprise that Mr. Ovason seems quite uninterested in any of the theories as to why Masons would have gone to such great lengths to ‘embed’ a message into the design of the capital city. His imagination about what Masons ostensibly know, however, seems boundless and aids in his fantasy at every turn. He writes in his Acknowledgement, “My thanks go to all those Masons and Masonic Lodges of present time who have helped me with questions which must surely have amused those privy to the deeper secrets.” And so, on this presumption, the book moves forward.

It was on Page 9 when the first of many, many unsubstantiated claims came leaping forth. In glancing through the book prior to reading, we'd noted nearly 70 pages of tightly-spaced footnotes. Surely these would at least allow us to follow through on the author's claims, right? But yet, he begins a discussion about the land on which Washington DC now stands and notes wishfully that the ownership by John Pope would be pleasant historically (in some sort of cosmically-ordained way, apparently) if that individual was related to John Pope who had settled in Massachusetts in 1630. He notes that John (from Dorchester) was ‘a distant forbear’ of the architect John Russell Pope. Footnote for his source? Not a chance!

It's a popular technique in 'popular' literature surrounding Freemasonry today. Similar to the very popular Hiram Key, Mr. Ovason makes a fanciful assumption and then later uses this to buttress yet another of his own theories.

In truth, anyone looking at the early layout of Washington, DC can, with a bit of imagination, see the design of a square and compass. That these are the implements used by Freemasonry to remind members to circumscribe their desires and keep their passions within due bounds with all mankind is undeniable. Just as undeniable, however, is that operative architects have used such implements for thousands of years and some of them surely must have been inspired by their grace and practical applications of their tools - even if they'd never joined the fraternity of Freemasons. But wait: that's not what Ovason is writing about: it's VIRGO!!!!! Yes, the thrust of this book is about the number of things that someone can play 'connect the dots' with and come up with a rough approximation of what the constellation Virgo looks like.

Here's an example: “The cornerstone for the Washington Monument was laid at the northeast corner of the foundation in the early afternoon of July 4, 1848. As I have indicated, probably one reason why the Masons chose to lay the stone in the afternoon was because they wished to allow the all-important Virgo to become operative in the chart. Shortly before lunchtime on that day, the Moon went into Virgo." Probably? Why? Footnote? Naw....

Virgo, it seems, is everywhere. "In fact, there was another Virgoan influence in this chart which might be missed by someone not familiar with the workings of astrology. The all-important Dragon’s Head in the 1848 chart is in 25 degrees of Virgo."

And yet, while Mr. Ovason wants to tie the Masons to the Virgo designs, he seems remarkably uninformed about who is a Mason and who isn't. He writes about Pierre L'Enfant, the original designer of Washington, “Later, he undertook special duties for Washington in France, where (almost certainly being a Mason) he organized a branch of the Society of Cincinnati, for which he designed its emblem.” Aha! A footnote: surely this will provide enlightenment to support his parenthetical assertion. What do we find? A footnote stating: “It is very likely that L’Enfant was a Mason.” <SIGH> In addition, he glibly identifies Vinnie Ream (a sculptress and close friend of Albert Pike) and Madame Blavatsky as Masons. So much for scrupulous research....

Talking about the George Washington Monument, Mr. Ovason writes “In spite of such delays and setbacks, a considerable change of vision was required to move from so thoroughly a neoclassical design as a horse-rider, to an obelisk which was essentially Egyptian in spirit. Historical documents indicate that this change was directed by Masons. Furthermore, not only was the form of the monument different from that anticipated by L’Enfant, it was not even sited in the position he had visualized.” Alas, yet again not a single footnoted anything to explain how Ovason has come to the conclusion it was directed by Masons (of the 'Freemason' variety)!

There are constant references to various parties being “keen astronomers” but Mr. Ovason apparently doesn't understand or appreciate the essential part astronomy played in military (and most especially naval) science of the day. The 'important people' of those times were, for the most part, military men: whether their service involved moving troops across land or handling ships across water, there was an ongoing reliance upon celestial navigation and it thus stands to reason that the level of understanding of astronomy in those days would be far, far greater than it is today. The author is apparently oblivious to the fact that even today, naval officers learn celestial navigation but that two hundred years ago, long before printing was readily available and maps were even marginally reliable, anyone who was responsible for military troops, surveying, foresting, exploring or a whole host of other occupations (including farming) would certainly be a 'keen astronomer'. There was no 'radar weather' to give wrong predictions so even those tending animals in the most remote regions would need, of necessity, be 'keen astronomers'.

We found it particularly interesting that Ovason's work makes much of the year 1881 (Trithemian doctrine of planetary angels) and claims (without substantiation) that occultists were alert to the critical importance of that year of change. However, because Pike was not particularly interested in that year, Mr. Ovason dismisses this lack of interest by saying that “...his attention must have been on other things.” Convenient, isn't it?

He makes broad statements unsupported by fact. Here's but one example: “By contrast, the astrological conditions pertaining to the ritual of the cornerstone were rarely made public. This was nothing to do with “Masonic secrecy” – it was merely a continuation of an ancient tradition.” One supposes that it's awfully difficult to make things public when they were likely never thought of - but that's much too mundane obviously.

Three hundred and fifty plus pages later and but three pages from the end of the book, we find this revealing commentary:

"It is not possible to work as a historian in the United States today without observing the understandable doubts which some Christian religious groups have concerning esotericism. If, as a Christian myself, I may venture an opinion in this context, it is that the Bible appears to have been written in such a way as to accommodate the understanding of a vast range of different beliefs, most of which find a meeting point in the seminal Mystery of the Christian religion, which is the Resurrection. Among this range of beliefs is one that might be typified as Christian esotericism, which approaches Christian texts and traditions in the light of hermetic thought. Generally speaking, an informed and well-intended analysis of esoteric Christianity is unlikely to unearth beliefs which conflict in any significant way with the traditions pertaining to the hallowed Mysteries of Christianity, or with the great cosmic and moral truths we find in the Bible. Beyond offering keys to such Mysteries, Christianity is a moral force, which should be capable of harboring a wide variety of opinions, and which should not harbor hatreds – especially hatreds directed at communalities of beliefs, in which differences are often peripheral or minor.

I introduce this thought because, given certain reactions to my previous works, I suspect that misunderstandings may arise about what I have and have not claimed in this present book. I have been surprised by the number of people who have taken it upon themselves to criticize some of my earlier writings without having done me the courtesy of reading what I have written. The general tenor of such criticism seems to arise from the misconception that any hermetic idea must be in some way diabolic, or linked with black magic. This is completely untrue.

In view of such misunderstandings, I would like to make it quite clear that I am not for one moment suggesting that it was “the Masons who built Washington, D.C.,” or that Mason’s Lodges ever had a coordinated, formulated plan to influence the growth of the city in any way. <Emphasis added> As a careful reading of this text will have indicated, I am claiming merely that Washington, D.C., was designed and built on Christian hermetic principles derived from, or linked with, ancient cosmological ideas. In exploring this truth, I observe that some of the people involved in the building of the city, besides being architects, planners and artists, happened also to be Masons. I am reasonably sure that in just about every case these individuals were also committed Christians. It would be patently absurd (if only because it is so obvious) for me to labor the point that Washington, D.C., was built by Christians.”

So what's all the fuss about? Who knows.... It's certainly clear from reading this work that this book is FAR from the proof of any nefarious deeds or plans by Masons or Masonry. That will not, of course, stop anti-Masons from making their ridiculous claims.

After having read both this work as well as Mr. Ovason's The Secrets of Nostradamus. we can only suggest that having found that remarkable prediction of the terrorist attacks on New York after they happened, this is not an author we'll follow further - and not a book we'd recommend.



To say Freemasonry is "nonChristian" is to show one doesnt understand Christianity, especially beyond its "simple language" (as Pike wrote)/face value as understood by the masses today.


The Nostradamus stuff is always nonsense, while missing the important stuff.


For someone to say the symbols in the layout of DC are not Masonic is really a word game !
The symbols are from ancient religions of which Freemasonry IS the end result.

The fuss I have is much more serious then that which you are used to seeing.

It (the DC beast Satan) is set up to take the place of the christ.
It is set up as christ.
It is not the bringer of light but darkness.

Is it, the beast has been set up so the final battle (as spoken of by the ancients) can take place ?
i.e. no beast no battle, so good has nothing to
triumph over ??

In otherwords, the beast is set up, not because they worship it (Satan), but so good has something to triumph over !!


Im willing to entertain such an idea.
Is anyone willing to say thats whats going on ?

[barney_rubble]

To say Freemasonry is "nonChristian" is to show one doesnt understand Christianity, especially beyond its "simple language" (as Pike wrote)/face value as understood by the masses today.


The Nostradamus stuff is always nonsense, while missing the important stuff.


For someone to say the symbols in the layout of DC are not Masonic is really a word game !
The symbols are from ancient religions of which Freemasonry IS the end result.

The fuss I have is much more serious then that which you are used to seeing.

It (the DC beast Satan) is set up to take the place of the christ.
It is set up as christ.
It is not the bringer of light but darkness.

Is it, the beast has been set up so the final battle (as spoken of by the ancients) can take place ?
i.e. no beast no battle, so good has nothing to
triumph over ??

In otherwords, the beast is set up, not because they worship it (Satan), but so good has something to triumph over !!


Im willing to entertain such an idea.
Is anyone willing to say thats whats going on ?


See my previous post which includes:

"On its face, it actually seems quite complimentary to the Fraternity and to many it would be met with a response of “So what?” Well, here's what: for those with over-developed imaginations, it’s a fearsome threat. To them, this ‘fact’ proves beyond any doubt their fears of a horrid Masonic conspiracy which – depending on the individual – may take a variety of forms. Some – ignoring the three hundred year experience of Freemasonry encouraging freedom – argue that it is now clear Freemasonry is hell-bent on world conquest: that the ‘signs’ implanted in the Washington street layout along with that eye in the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill are the final proof. (Good thing they figured it out in 2000 after a couple of hundred years, isn’t it?)

Others, taking their imaginations even further, note that the layout is proof that aliens from outer space influenced Masons who designed it. Laugh if you will but for some, this is desperately real and they’re convinced beyond any explanation. Those who’ve read this site for some time will recall our reporting that the huge Square and Compass placed in front of the George Washington National Masonic Memorial was opined by some as being the marker for the landing of the spacecraft at midnight on 1/1/2000 with the increase in postal rates to 33cents just preceding that as a forewarning. (Our friend and Brother Harry Lyons was there on Shooter's Hill in Virginia at the Memorial at midnight that night: alas, no spaceship - or at least that's what he's saying publicly!)

And for the religious zealots, this ‘design’ in the street plan is a signal for all that the Masons are establishing a secret religion which will pave the way for the coming of the anti-Christ. Again, we’re a bit confused since the design has been there for a couple of hundred years and no one has seen the anti-Christ or any Masonic religion appear yet - but why let facts get into the way of a good yarn, eh?"
Calm down they are just streets no satan on Washington Hill.

[thelucifer]

See my previous post which includes:

"On its face, it actually seems quite complimentary to the Fraternity and to many it would be met with a response of “So what?” Well, here's what: for those with over-developed imaginations, it’s a fearsome threat. To them, this ‘fact’ proves beyond any doubt their fears of a horrid Masonic conspiracy which – depending on the individual – may take a variety of forms. Some – ignoring the three hundred year experience of Freemasonry encouraging freedom – argue that it is now clear Freemasonry is hell-bent on world conquest: that the ‘signs’ implanted in the Washington street layout along with that eye in the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill are the final proof. (Good thing they figured it out in 2000 after a couple of hundred years, isn’t it?)

Others, taking their imaginations even further, note that the layout is proof that aliens from outer space influenced Masons who designed it. Laugh if you will but for some, this is desperately real and they’re convinced beyond any explanation. Those who’ve read this site for some time will recall our reporting that the huge Square and Compass placed in front of the George Washington National Masonic Memorial was opined by some as being the marker for the landing of the spacecraft at midnight on 1/1/2000 with the increase in postal rates to 33cents just preceding that as a forewarning. (Our friend and Brother Harry Lyons was there on Shooter's Hill in Virginia at the Memorial at midnight that night: alas, no spaceship - or at least that's what he's saying publicly!)

And for the religious zealots, this ‘design’ in the street plan is a signal for all that the Masons are establishing a secret religion which will pave the way for the coming of the anti-Christ. Again, we’re a bit confused since the design has been there for a couple of hundred years and no one has seen the anti-Christ or any Masonic religion appear yet - but why let facts get into the way of a good yarn, eh?"
Calm down they are just streets no satan on Washington Hill.

Im perfectly calm.


The Dc beast Satan is the antichrist, not anti Jesus, such a person never existed (so that christ/christianity never was), its hard to be anti (instead of) something that dont exist.


Dc beast Satan/antichrist.
Thats why I said it is set up to take the place of the christ (the real christ, not Jesus).
It is set up as christ.
But is not the christ.

Its very easy to see and understand, what Satan is.
Satan is not a concious freewill entity.
Satan is a inanimate symbol (as layed out in DC) for an agenda (the Great Experiment)/religion, Mystery Babylon.


Anti is a bad translation, instead of i.e. the instead of christ.

[thelucifer]

See my previous post which includes:

Again, we’re a bit confused since the design has been there for a couple of hundred years and no one has seen the anti-Christ or any Masonic religion appear yet - but why let facts get into the way of a good yarn, eh?"

The Satan/antichrist came on the scene as of 1776.
232 years is a short season.

[barney_rubble]

The Satan/antichrist came on the scene as of 1776.
232 years is a short season.

Sorry excuse my ignorance. Who then is this Satan/antichrist that came on the scene as of 1776.

What are the indications/signs that this is so.
Was it the rebellion against the British and the Declaration of independance?????

[thelucifer]

Sorry excuse my ignorance. Who then is this Satan/antichrist that came on the scene as of 1776.

What are the indications/signs that this is so.
Was it the rebellion against the British and the Declaration of independance?????


Who then ?
Go back two posts I made and understand the word "agenda", your answer is there.

What are the indications...?
The DC beast Satan, as is in the design layout.
1776 is the year celebrated.
The Great Seal is of importance, while being adopted in 1782, my understanding is, there is, in the British museum, this seal from the early 1770's.

To understand the DC beast is there means it has a beginning, thats really a no brainer.

If one is not willing (or able, have no knowledge of) to admit the thing/beast is there via the Compass (with HORNS on it) and the Square then there is no reason to discuss its beginning.
The HORNS are the most clear of the symbols mentioned !
One can take any map and most clearly see them.
The Supreme Court Bldg at the (its) Right horn and the Library of Congress at the Left Horn.


Rebellion ?
Thats a joke, whats going on here in the USA is via Britian.

Declaration of Independence ?
That is the event the Bible refers to as a "great earthquake" Rev. 6:12, some earth shaking stuff.



I know what the thing (DC beast Satan) is and why its there.

To watch you guys (Masons) play the game of saying its not there, is not only an insult to my intelligence but a terrible shame to all that is good.
Its also embarrassing watching you guys trying to wordsmith/game the obvious away.

If you really want to discuss truth, I can do that.

[barney_rubble]

Who then ?
Go back two posts I made and understand the word "agenda", your answer is there.

What are the indications...?
The DC beast Satan, as is in the design layout.
1776 is the year celebrated.
The Great Seal is of importance, while being adopted in 1782, my understanding is, there is, in the British museum, this seal from the early 1770's.

To understand the DC beast is there means it has a beginning, thats really a no brainer.

If one is not willing (or able, have no knowledge of) to admit the thing/beast is there via the Compass (with HORNS on it) and the Square then there is no reason to discuss its beginning.
The HORNS are the most clear of the symbols mentioned !
One can take any map and most clearly see them.
The Supreme Court Bldg at the (its) Right horn and the Library of Congress at the Left Horn.


Rebellion ?
Thats a joke, whats going on here in the USA is via Britian.

Declaration of Independence ?
That is the event the Bible refers to as a "great earthquake" Rev. 6:12, some earth shaking stuff.



I know what the thing (DC beast Satan) is and why its there.

To watch you guys (Masons) play the game of saying its not there, is not only an insult to my intelligence but a terrible shame to all that is good.
Its also embarrassing watching you guys trying to wordsmith/game the obvious away.

If you really want to discuss truth, I can do that.

Ok lucifer, I am seriously interested in what you have to say. I am not saying I will necessarily aggree with your position but I would like to understand your position so I can see both sides and then I can make a more informed opinion.

That said you will have to connect the dots for me. I do not understand what the 'agenda' is nor how the Washington street plan fits in.

Maybe I am just thick. Please explain.

[thelucifer]

I do not understand what the 'agenda' is nor how the Washington street plan fits in.

agenda, the great experiment, Novus Ordo Seclorum.

The order of the ages is not just for a district, city or country, but the world.

Washington DC is at the heart of the great experiment.

Is it not ?

From there one needs look at that heart !

One way to see it is via symbols, hence the design layout, of DC.

[barney_rubble]

agenda, the great experiment, Novus Ordo Seclorum.

The order of the ages is not just for a district, city or country, but the world.

Washington DC is at the heart of the great experiment.

Is it not ?

From there one needs look at that heart !

One way to see it is via symbols, hence the design layout, of DC.

OK I think I am starting to see where you are coming from.

"Novus Ordo Seclorum" translates as "New Order of the Ages".

Yes and I believe the American founders and believe that the new political system that they were attempting to set up was the "New Order" or at least hoped it would.

Charles Thomson, who came up with the final design for the Great Seal of the United States said that "Novus Ordo Seclorum" signifies "the beginning of the new American Era,"

That means a democratic political system with democratic rights, government of the people, by the people, for the people.

OK perhaps the street layout in Washington DC is there to celebrate that democracy (I do not know for sure).

But what are you saying that democracy is bad or wrong? That democracy is the antichrist?

What is the alternative communism?

Do not get me wrong I am not trying to be argumentative here.
I am trying to understand your position (your ideas).

As pure theoretical political systems I believe both democracy and communism have merit. The problem is neither of these systems has ever put into practice in there purest form.

Is that your real issue that the democratic system as it is set up in the United States is not prue, or "corrupt".
When I us the word "corrupt" I mean it is this sense "to alter from the original or correct form or version" as defined in the Websters dictionary.

[lenejento]

Why are you freemasons on here being sarcastic in almost every post?

[barney_rubble]

Why are you freemasons on here being sarcastic in almost every post?

No sarcasim intended.

[thelucifer]

OK I think I am starting to see where you are coming from.

"Novus Ordo Seclorum" translates as "New Order of the Ages".

Yes and I believe the American founders and believe that the new political system that they were attempting to set up was the "New Order" or at least hoped it would.

hoped it would !

Its the super power of the world.

Charles Thomson, who came up with the final design for the Great Seal of the United States said that "Novus Ordo Seclorum" signifies "the beginning of the new American Era,"

The New Horizon.
The New Atlantis.
The Revived Roman Empire.


That means a democratic political system with democratic rights, government of the people, by the people, for the people.

Of what people by what people for what people ???

The religious symbols for the DC layout were/are not via ordinary folks (profane, vulgar etc) but were via the Adepts without the masses knowing.


OK perhaps the street layout in Washington DC is there to celebrate that democracy (I do not know for sure).

Its a Republic (not a Democracy), as ancient Rome, hence the Revived Roman Empire.

But what are you saying that democracy is bad or wrong? That democracy is the antichrist?

What is the alternative communism?

Do not get me wrong I am not trying to be argumentative here.
I am trying to understand your position (your ideas).

What we have here in the USA is Communism, hence Centralized Bank and Federalized School System etc.

The Marine barracks for Camp Coronado (Navel Base) is four buildings in the form of a Swastika. To see image of it do a google search.
It is a NO fly over zone, so no one would see it via plane. The story broke via Google Earth.

The line from the Capital bldg to the Lincoln Memorial is angled, its a Pendulum, in swing to its ( the beast) Left, representing Leftism/communism.

We here in America have the Swastika and Pendulum for Communism.
We have the large Facsi on each side of the Speaker of The House, Fascism.
And we most clearly have Socialism.
Im hoping thats simple and clear enough.

As pure theoretical political systems I believe both democracy and communism have merit. The problem is neither of these systems has ever put into practice in there purest form.

Is that your real issue that the democratic system as it is set up in the United States is not prue, or "corrupt".
When I us the word "corrupt" I mean it is this sense "to alter from the original or correct form or version" as defined in the Websters dictionary.

What we have here is exactly what it was designed to be.
The Eagles wings (America) plucked off the Lion (that now stands as a man).



Clausen’s Commentaries on Morals and Dogma,

Page 54
Our colonial Masons…They molded and riveted down Masonic concepts and a Masonic organizational pattern into our Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights. Actually, therefore, they created what I call “Masonic-minded Americanism.” The very term “Americanism” was coined by one of these patriots, John Witherspoon, one of the Masons who signed the Declaration of Independence.