My First Encounter

[coventry kid]

UFO AND EXTERRESTRIAL-- DO EXCIST BELIEVE ME, I have nothing to achieve by saying nothing or speaking out, IT HAS LEFT ME IN A STATE OF BEING PART PARALYSED BY A STROKE IN 2000, in all fairness i think this is the stress, of all this and the venturing into the world of the ufo phenonoma and also the world of spiritulistic study and invovement within the spiritualist movement over many years, I cannot within a few sentences cover years of study or bring a reality to those who read my words, i can only give the TRUE FACTS, of events in Coventry from years past,------- I will begin with my first encounter with a freind called K--- Robbinson, at the time i was around my mid teen years, and we were friends from school, we decided to play a game of snooker, at the Morris Works club house across from the back of his home which faced the large sports field, I remember very well that we left his home around 7-5pm and passed the security gate house at 7-10pm, Keith had ben there on severall occasions, but i had not been before, we were still under drinking ages, but he had a work pass as-- his dad worked there so we could get in the club house, on arivall we went into the snooker room, but where told by a guy, "sorry lads you cannot play as the tables were being resurfaced with new beize cloths", so no game, we decided to go back to his house and play some pop albums etc. We walked slowly back across the field and as we did Keith looked back at the club in the sky was a low hovering object approaching us, It was no higher than 50 feet, but that was a guess, it appeared to have four padded feet and strange pipework to the side we could see, we both became very uneasy and ran very fast to his home, i rember little then, or passing the gatehouse, we entered his home and we talked a little about this, we could not bring ourselves, to understand anthing, i can remember we agreed to be silent to our parants, as they would not understand like ourselves, i noticed the time was now around 8-45 pm--this was a complete mistery the time could not be so, as we had only been away around half an hour maximum, so what happend in that period has remained a absent time space, this was just the start of a journey into a sometimes unpleasant and profound future, I can say now that sometimes it is better to leave untouched or forget these events, but i cannot be like that it is too easy to deny the truths around us, seeing in differant dimentions with or without freinds along side, Other lifeforms are advanced beyond our comprehension, it is not the vechile that is interesting only the drivers that really count, and how they see us, bearing this in mind we see only what is intended by those who enter our frequency of vibration, and shape is only a fact, i have tried to find K.R. FOR A LONG TIME NOW, he went into the R.A.F. and into the estate agency buisness in the south, i just hope his life has not been touched as mine, i will write more soon.

[midwich cuckoo]

I find it frustrating that most people who have never had any experiences like this (or maybe they just don't remember this type of experience) are quick to label those who speak out as 'crackpots' and 'liars'.

According to psychiatrists, I am totally sane and I assure you, I have nothing to gain from lying.

Most people just don't understand the effects of 'alien' abduction on some of the abductees, it can be a terrifying experience. And then for the abductees to go through the ridicule of non believers... a "normal life" is impossible for us.

[midwich cuckoo]

There has been a lot of events in my family, my mum's life has been very strange indeed, but I wont go into that at the moment.

About 2-3 months before I was born in 1973, my mum was told she was expecting twins, due to an experimental fertility treatment. My parents were staying in Singapore at the time due to my dad being in the army.

My dad was transferred to Edinburgh, back home in Scotland where he went on to do 3 tours of Northern Ireland and played percussion in the Edinburgh Tattoo 3 years in a row.

Anyhow on the flight to Scotland from singapore my dad saw a "silver flying saucer" flying alongside and just below the plane. Meanwhile my mum was pregnant and ill, due to a blot clot in her leg, it was very serious as it could have moved up to her lung, she was resting on a stretcher on the military plane.

When I was about born 2-3 months later , my twin simply had vanished, I was the only one who came out. :confused:

I have more to tell about other events, so stay tuned.

[earthseed]

You have to experience the extradimensional to believe in it. That's just the way it works and if people haven't had ecounters with it they aren't going to believe you. I've been having weird experiences my whole life that's why I know there is more to this reality than we are told. If I hadn't had so many I probably would believe people either. That's just the way the human mind works.

[midwich cuckoo]

I have more to tell about other events, so stay tuned.

Well judging by the overwhelming response to my last post in this thread, I'm not saying any more about my personal life on here.

This is what I mean about the clique mentality on this forum.

[mcmenek1]

Hi,

I think this sort of thing happens quite a lot to certain people......and they just don’t remember it.....the abductors are very good at making the abducted forget the hole event.

I often have a vivid dream that I’m laying down and I’m surrounded by people or beings.......my eyes are closed and I cant move.....I try to open my eyes and move my body but no matter how hard I try I just can’t do anything....... although I can’t see anything I can sense the presence of these people or beings staring at me. When I wake up I think oh!.....I’ve just been dreaming.......but sometimes I wonder if there is more to it.





About 2-3 months before I was born in 1973, my mum was told she was expecting twins, due to an experimental fertility treatment. My parents were staying in Singapore at the time due to my dad being in the army.

My dad was transferred to Edinburgh, back home in Scotland where he went on to do 3 tours of Northern Ireland and played percussion in the Edinburgh Tattoo 3 years in a row.

Anyhow on the flight to Scotland from singapore my dad saw a "silver flying saucer" flying alongside and just below the plane. Meanwhile my mum was pregnant and ill, due to a blot clot in her leg, it was very serious as it could have moved up to her lung, she was resting on a stretcher on the military plane.

When I was about born 2-3 months later , my twin simply had vanished, I was the only one who came out. :confused:



Wow!......that must have been a terrible shock for your mum..... Unborn babies don't just disappear.....do you think something may have happened to your mum on the flight to Scotland.....?

Love
&
Peace

[earthseed]

It's hard for us to know what our own people are doing to us and what other non human beings are doing to us. They both are so beyond our understanding it all blends together. One thing they all have in common: We are a resource to them.

[clint web]

I have more to tell about other events, so stay tuned.
Well judging by the overwhelming response to my last post in this thread, I'm not saying any more about my personal life on here.

This is what I mean about the clique mentality on this forum.

What do you mean?, no ones said anything against you. We're just waiting for the further posts because you said to stay tuned.

[gorgeousbutterfly]

You are VERY lucky that you did not experience this alone. I have seen aliens (or what i think might of been holographic aliens not really real) and IT didn't scare me for some reason because it hink it would of killed me and i think i was protected by something. BUT what i am scared is that they will come back because i did see them trough my window from my room across the the neighbors window. I saw three greys, but they didnt' look like greys you see on tv they had no eyes or mouth which is why i think it was a holographic image just to scare me but who did this i don't know. i am also psychic. but anyway the worst part is that every night iam very scared that they will come and get me :(.

[lenejento]

You are VERY lucky that you did not experience this alone. I have seen aliens (or what i think might of been holographic aliens not really real) and IT didn't scare me for some reason because it hink it would of killed me and i think i was protected by something. BUT what i am scared is that they will come back because i did see them trough my window from my room across the the neighbors window. I saw three greys, but they didnt' look like greys you see on tv they had no eyes or mouth which is why i think it was a holographic image just to scare me but who did this i don't know. i am also psychic. but anyway the worst part is that every night iam very scared that they will come and get me :(.


Oh no, I used to have this fear when I first started reading about aliens, ufos and abductions, it is horrible to lie in bed and be scared :( I hope that fear will diminish, even though your fear is more legitimate :(

Just want to say that I believe all of you, so I hope you won't be shy telling more about your encounters. Yes, it's hard to imagine, the experience must be 1000 times different than any imagination of it anyway, but I believe you.

[gorgeousbutterfly]

Oh no, I used to have this fear when I first started reading about aliens, ufos and abductions, it is horrible to lie in bed and be scared :( I hope that fear will diminish, even though your fear is more legitimate :(

Just want to say that I believe all of you, so I hope you won't be shy telling more about your encounters. Yes, it's hard to imagine, the experience must be 1000 times different than any imagination of it anyway, but I believe you.

thanx you. it does help me when i am able to share this on here be cause i CANNOT tell anybody this that i know in person, for obvious reasons. :(

[spacegurl]

There isn't any grey aliens abducting people from their beds. It's a myth and perpetrated by mass hysteria. These images under hypnosis are not proven. You can implant suggestive thoughts into people under hypnosis. However I do think those people who were mysteriously abducted and subjected to hours of absense and have had strange metal objects found within them might be victims of sinister operations by the powers that be, military or scientific, to test certain individuals. Also I think these abductees are carefully selected.

UFO's are a seperate issue. They're not from outer space but from here, and also they're symbolic. Look at Jung's research on UFO's.

[gorgeousbutterfly]

There isn't any grey aliens abducting people from their beds. It's a myth and perpetrated by mass hysteria. These images under hypnosis are not proven. You can implant suggestive thoughts into people under hypnosis. However I do think those people who were mysteriously abducted and subjected to hours of absense and have had strange metal objects found within them might be victims of sinister operations by the powers that be, military or scientific, to test certain individuals. Also I think these abductees are carefully selected.

UFO's are a seperate issue. They're not from outer space but from here, and also they're symbolic. Look at Jung's research on UFO's.

that is not true. there has been alot of hypnosis done on abuductees, there is a book called " abduction" and its about a psychologist who does this and he is an expert on abduction. he has done many many hypnosis on people. please only speak if you know what you are talking about. no offense.

[spacegurl]

that is not true. there has been alot of hypnosis done on abuductees, there is a book called " abduction" and its about a psychologist who does this and he is an expert on abduction. he has done many many hypnosis on people. please only speak if you know what you are talking about. no offense.

Who is he, the psychologist? I meant no offence earlier.

[gorgeousbutterfly]

the book is in a green cover. i forgot his name :( i am searching amazon and can't find it. but I KNOW its out there. i have read a few chapters in the bookstore and its very through.

[gorgeousbutterfly]

found it...

http://hiddenmysteries.com/xcart/product.php?productid=18177&cat=464&page=4

[spacegurl]

please only speak if you know what you are talking about. no offense.

i forgot his name i am searching amazon and can't find it. but I KNOW its out there.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. You didn't agree with me and assumed that I haven't got a clue. Then again you don't actually own that book yourself. You had to do a search on Amazon. Have you read it? You also couldn't remember the name of the man who you believe whatever he says. That makes your arguement very weak.

As I said before hypnosis isn't evidence. Anyone and anything can induce hallucinations during hypnosis. Grey aliens do not exist. They are a myth and whoever is "abducting" people are humans. Some men with college degrees believe in the alien abduction hypothesis, including Dr John Mack (who died) but it means absolutely nothing and they have proven nothing to support this. All that was proven is the metal traces found in people's bodies and people losing time to show something happened to them but it's not greys. Others simply believe that it isn't aliens at all but military scientists.

[gorgeousbutterfly]

ummm you said it has not been proven under hypnosis , all i thought was that you thought they were not done under hypnosis meaning that nobody has confirmed in seeing one during hypnosis. i have read a few chapters in the book from the bookstore , the evidence given seemed intresting, of course its not 100 percent, anybody who knows science knows that. but its intresting.

[spacegurl]

ummm you said it has not been proven under hypnosis , all i thought was that you thought they were not done under hypnosis meaning that nobody has confirmed in seeing one during hypnosis. i have read a few chapters in the book from the bookstore , the evidence given seemed intresting, of course its not 100 percent, anybody who knows science knows that. but its intresting.

Sorry if I came across as rude in my last post. I sounded abrupt. What I meant was that anything seen during hypnosis isn't evidence. They don't really rely on it during regular criminal investigations but in cases of childhood abuse where so-called forgotten memories resurface, the crimes still are in dispute. 10 years ago there was a wave of arrests on people who were accused of abusing kids. No memory of that was remembered by the "victims" until hypnosis, but it was used as evidence to arrest the accused. The accused turned out to be innocent and the "memories" of abuse were distorted images. Now these people may have been abused in their childhood but the faces of their attackers were likely muddled. It's like dreaming. During dreams it's very common to have a confused sense of what is real. For instance you can dream that you have a dog, when in reality you've only got a cat. But in your dream the dog has your cat's name, characteristics and also you may recall it as being a cat. Do you see what I mean?

I'm not suggesting YOU are making anything up (abductees) but that the memories/images seen under hypnosis can be hazed and misplaced. I'm not denying abductions: what I believe is going on is far more sinister than grey aliens because most people, under hypnosis, would see things that look like goblins and vampires to remind them of deep fears when the reality just was merely about other people. So things like hypnosis shouldn't be trusted.

Apart from hypnosis, abductions occur but I think it's done by people. Have you been abducted? do you live in a certain/had you lived in a certain area that was near a power station, lots of masts, electricals, chemicals, spills, ect? Is there certain medical history in your family? Hey you don't have to answer these questions at all but ask yourself these questions because people are selected for various reasons.

[lilly555]

I had a vision that in a past life I was shortly abducted by greys on a ship.

[seaweed]

There has been a lot of events in my family, my mum's life has been very strange indeed, but I wont go into that at the moment.

About 2-3 months before I was born in 1973, my mum was told she was expecting twins, due to an experimental fertility treatment. My parents were staying in Singapore at the time due to my dad being in the army.

My dad was transferred to Edinburgh, back home in Scotland where he went on to do 3 tours of Northern Ireland and played percussion in the Edinburgh Tattoo 3 years in a row.

Anyhow on the flight to Scotland from singapore my dad saw a "silver flying saucer" flying alongside and just below the plane. Meanwhile my mum was pregnant and ill, due to a blot clot in her leg, it was very serious as it could have moved up to her lung, she was resting on a stretcher on the military plane.

When I was about born 2-3 months later , my twin simply had vanished, I was the only one who came out. :confused:

I have more to tell about other events, so stay tuned.

Oh my goodness. When my mother was expecting me, she was also told she was having twins, yet when she gave birth, there was just me, my twin having 'vanished', just like yours. And yes, my late mother and myself have had many strange happenings that could be put down to UFO/Alien experiences.:eek:

Looking forward to hearing about all your experiences.

Best,

Seaweed

[gorgeousbutterfly]

Sorry if I came across as rude in my last post. I sounded abrupt. What I meant was that anything seen during hypnosis isn't evidence. They don't really rely on it during regular criminal investigations but in cases of childhood abuse where so-called forgotten memories resurface, the crimes still are in dispute. 10 years ago there was a wave of arrests on people who were accused of abusing kids. No memory of that was remembered by the "victims" until hypnosis, but it was used as evidence to arrest the accused. The accused turned out to be innocent and the "memories" of abuse were distorted images. Now these people may have been abused in their childhood but the faces of their attackers were likely muddled. It's like dreaming. During dreams it's very common to have a confused sense of what is real. For instance you can dream that you have a dog, when in reality you've only got a cat. But in your dream the dog has your cat's name, characteristics and also you may recall it as being a cat. Do you see what I rmean?

I'm not suggesting YOU are making anything up (abductees) but that the memories/images seen under hypnosis can be hazed and misplaced. I'm not denying abductions: what I believe is going on is far more sinister than grey aliens because most people, under hypnosis, would see things that look like goblins and vampires to remind them of deep fears when the reality just was merely about other people. So things like hypnosis shouldn't be trusted.

Apart from hypnosis, abductions occur but I think it's done by people. Have you been abducted? do you live in a certain/had you lived in a certain area that was near a power station, lots of masts, electricals, chemicals, spills, ect? Is there certain medical history in your family? Hey you don't have to answer these questions at all but ask yourself these questions because people are selected for various reasons.

I do not know anything scientifically speaking about hypnosis but from what i recall alot of these therapists who do this say that its proof, for example if they take them back to a past life and they say they were so and so they believe it to be true. i just read a book on reincarnation "proven" so they say by hypnosis. i just don't understand how the mind can make up so much details about their life, especially if they remembered a tramuatic event and were excpressing alot of emotions under hypnosis. ALSO some reincarnates were hypnotized back to at time and were able to comfirm that its true by tracking this person that they were in a past life. they were able to get details on where they lived etc.

I do not think i have been abducted. i just remember laying in bed trying to go to sleep and i sleep next to a very large window, my view on the outside my neighbors window. so that night i looked out and saw three grey beings looking out through the window, they didnt' look REAL, they looked looked ghosts. they had no eyes , no mouth, not the traditonal image of an alien. the head was kinda shaped like the greys. and what suprised me was that i was looking at them and they were (i felt) looking at me but i was not afraid. i was thinking omg . at first i was looking around to see if someone is tricking me. but then i just knew they were aliens. i still don't understand why i wasn't afraid. i felt maybe they were controlling my emotions? because i get frightened very easily. and something told me that i should just ignore them and go back to sleep , so i did. and thats it. but thinking back on it i'm very scared it might happen again and that frightens me.

I do know that i live very near tryone(sherman oaks) i'm walking distance from this street and i know arizona wilder said she was mind controlled or they used their mind controll technology there. so that scares me too.

[spacegurl]

I do not know anything scientifically speaking about hypnosis but from what i recall alot of these therapists who do this say that its proof, for example if they take them back to a past life and they say they were so and so they believe it to be true. i just read a book on reincarnation "proven" so they say by hypnosis. i just don't understand how the mind can make up so much details about their life, especially if they remembered a tramuatic event and were excpressing alot of emotions under hypnosis. ALSO some reincarnates were hypnotized back to at time and were able to comfirm that its true by tracking this person that they were in a past life. they were able to get details on where they lived etc.


Some people believe recalling past lives under hypnosis is proof of reincarnation. I agree with many of those who study the subject that regression/memory of past lives is actual hereditary memory. It would be a memory of one or more of your ansestors. You carry their genes and also their distant memories would be encoded too but you won't remember it like you remember your own life. Other people's memories is passed down, receovered through sensations, visiting places, dreaming and even hypnosis.

There are different types of hypnosis. Different types that make people go into different levels of consiousness. People have used hypno-therapy to cure smoking habits. The mind isn't merely making anything up as it recollects certain memories but also past lives isn't the same thing as uncovering memory. Sometimes a "memory" or past life may not actually be real. Dreaming can also feel real.

I do not think i have been abducted. i just remember laying in bed trying to go to sleep and i sleep next to a very large window, my view on the outside my neighbors window. so that night i looked out and saw three grey beings looking out through the window, they didnt' look REAL, they looked looked ghosts. they had no eyes , no mouth, not the traditonal image of an alien. the head was kinda shaped like the greys. and what suprised me was that i was looking at them and they were (i felt) looking at me but i was not afraid. i was thinking omg . at first i was looking around to see if someone is tricking me. but then i just knew they were aliens. i still don't understand why i wasn't afraid. i felt maybe they were controlling my emotions? because i get frightened very easily. and something told me that i should just ignore them and go back to sleep , so i did. and thats it. but thinking back on it i'm very scared it might happen again and that frightens me.

What made you think those were aliens and not your neighbours playing tricks on you or leaving some sort of objects in the window, which took on that shape? Or other types of phenomena like ghosts? you didn't see their faces.

I do know that i live very near tryone(sherman oaks) i'm walking distance from this street and i know arizona wilder said she was mind controlled or they used their mind controll technology there. so that scares me too.


I don't doubt that mind control techniques exist.

[gorgeousbutterfly]

my first gut reaction when i saw those beings was that they were aliens. i don't know why i was just going based on my intuition. although i do doubt what i saw was actually aliens. i also don't know why my neighbors would do this? i mean i am not close to any neighbors.

[byrdsmaniac]

Spacegurl wrote:
"Grey aliens do not exist. They are a myth and whoever is "abducting" people are humans."

Well now! Obviously we're blessed by the presense of someone who must know, outspoken as she is.
Now let's see....reports from thousands of abductees here, spacegurl's unconditional statement here.
Who do I feel inclined to believe? Hmmm?

Grey beings abduct people at night, even through solid walls, as has been reported by people that have lived it, OR
hypnotists are invading peoples' homes at night, and convincing them that they're aliens on a mission.
(That would seem to have to be the alternative here, right?)
Which sounds more plausible?

Spacegurl, perhaps you can explain to everybody what is really happening, being as how you are so knowledgeable and everything.

[spacegurl]

Spacegurl wrote:
"Grey aliens do not exist. They are a myth and whoever is "abducting" people are humans."

Well now! Obviously we're blessed by the presense of someone who must know, outspoken as she is.
Now let's see....reports from thousands of abductees here, spacegurl's unconditional statement here.
Who do I feel inclined to believe? Hmmm?

Grey beings abduct people at night, even through solid walls, as has been reported by people that have lived it, OR
hypnotists are invading peoples' homes at night, and convincing them that they're aliens on a mission.
(That would seem to have to be the alternative here, right?)
Which sounds more plausible?

Spacegurl, perhaps you can explain to everybody what is really happening, being as how you are so knowledgeable and everything.

I already did explain what it was really happening, if you bother to read my posts on this thread properly you'll see it. Greys only exist in your mind. People believe in the living dead but it doesn't make it real.

[byrdsmaniac]

And the proper way to read your posts would be...?

With eyes wide shut, evidently.
You wrote: "I already did explain what it was really happening...", but you haven't.
Your whole argument is that memories obtained under hypnosis can't be trusted, but you offer no explanation of how people find themselves face to face with grey beings at night, as gorgeousbutterfly and others (by the thousands now) have said they have. Neighbors playing tricks? You've got to be kidding! Or they were hypnotised to believe that that happened? I know a dozen (myself included) who were awake when they had the experience - no hypnotist around to "induce" the memories.
My guess is you don't think an alien life form could travel to Earth, and so you've decided (apparently) that they can't, and so you say that whatever is happening, is being done by people here. That seems to be your explanation. And to be sure, you may be right, in some respects. There could be human beings involved with the abduction process. But there could be entities who are not human, involved, and they could be from Earth, or elsewhere. And if it's merely a human trick, you have offered no explanation of how it's being done. Hypnotically, yes, but when and how do the hypnotists obtain subjects? Do they pull them off the streets? You've ruled out nocturnal visits (evidently).
It appears to me that you've read none of the literature, talked to no abductees, and have simply come up with an idea that works for you, and you're sticking with it, regardless, but in doing so you have to try to make the reality fit your model, and unfortunately, it doesn't. Not even a little bit.

[spacegurl]

I'm not going to teach you how to read. You should've learnt that by now at your age.

[spacegurl]

It's very poor manners to edit and add more stuff on old posts that I already answered when you could've just written a brand new post. You didn't have all this text when I last saw it. You added it, to make it look as if you wrote it earlier so now other people viewing this thread will assume that it was already here and I've avoided answering it. That is a very crude tactic of a poster who can't properly debate.

And the proper way to read your posts would be...?

With eyes wide shut, evidently.

That was all that you said earlier. You ADDED the rest below.


You wrote: "I already did explain what it was really happening...", but you haven't.
Your whole argument is that memories obtained under hypnosis can't be trusted, but you offer no explanation of how people find themselves face to face with grey beings at night, as gorgeousbutterfly and others (by the thousands now) have said they have. Neighbors playing tricks? You've got to be kidding! Or they were hypnotised to believe that that happened? I know a dozen (myself included) who were awake when they had the experience - no hypnotist around to "induce" the memories.
My guess is you don't think an alien life form could travel to Earth, and so you've decided (apparently) that they can't, and so you say that whatever is happening, is being done by people here. That seems to be your explanation. And to be sure, you may be right, in some respects. There could be human beings involved with the abduction process. But there could be entities who are not human, involved, and they could be from Earth, or elsewhere. And if it's merely a human trick, you have offered no explanation of how it's being done. Hypnotically, yes, but when and how do the hypnotists obtain subjects? Do they pull them off the streets? You've ruled out nocturnal visits (evidently).
It appears to me that you've read none of the literature, talked to no abductees, and have simply come up with an idea that works for you, and you're sticking with it, regardless, but in doing so you have to try to make the reality fit your model, and unfortunately, it doesn't. Not even a little bit.


I'll answer it soon (you'll probably edit it again)

[spacegurl]

You wrote: "I already did explain what it was really happening...", but you haven't.


I did explain it but you just don't like it.

Your whole argument is that memories obtained under hypnosis can't be trusted, but you offer no explanation of how people find themselves face to face with grey beings at night, as gorgeousbutterfly and others (by the thousands now) have said they have. Neighbors playing tricks? You've got to be kidding! Or they were hypnotised to believe that that happened? I know a dozen (myself included) who were awake when they had the experience - no hypnotist around to "induce" the memories.

I actually did explain how people see greys. Gorgeousbutterfly said she saw what looked like grey aliens in the window and I asked her questions about that and she didn't answer. You must always look for other possible explainations for curious things, instead of jumping to the conclusion they're aliens or ghosts. It's the way of rational, civilised people otherwise we'll all become supersticious as our Dark Aged ancestors. Did you see whatever it was she saw too? If not then how do you know for sure they were aliens? Please go ahead and describe what you saw then.

My guess is you don't think an alien life form could travel to Earth, and so you've decided (apparently) that they can't, and so you say that whatever is happening, is being done by people here.

Your guess is wrong. I said that grey aliens are visions seen under hypnosis, as they are, or mistaken sightings. UFO's are a seperate issue. Only since Jules Verne's Martian panic radio have people considered UFO's = Aliens/outer space. UFO's aren't necessarily from deep space, try and get out of that Hollywood sci-fi brainwashing. They're from here, and they're also symbolic. I suggested people read Jung's research on UFO's earlier so I'll mention it again.

That seems to be your explanation. And to be sure, you may be right, in some respects. There could be human beings involved with the abduction process. But there could be entities who are not human, involved, and they could be from Earth, or elsewhere.

There aren't any aliens abducting people. Why would they? It's the act of brutal humans doing this to selected individuals. I asked GorgeousButterfly to think about the location she lives in, if there are chemicals, reactors, spills, ect and medical problems in her family. Does the idea of humans abducting people sound too scary for you? or too boring?

And if it's merely a human trick, you have offered no explanation of how it's being done. Hypnotically, yes, but when and how do the hypnotists obtain subjects? Do they pull them off the streets? You've ruled out nocturnal visits (evidently).

There's no proof that it's happened at all really. Certainly no proof that greys are doing it. Can you prove to me that greys exist? Where have they been seen? I just explained what hypnosis does and how it shouldn't be trusted. By your logic you're saying innocent people should be arrested for crimes they didn't commit all because it was seen via hypnotic visions. Hypnotic memories are flawed and not entirely true memories either. We can't go around believing in things that aren't there just because a few people say they saw it. Many people see things for different reasons but it's all psychology and optics.

It appears to me that you've read none of the literature, talked to no abductees, and have simply come up with an idea that works for you, and you're sticking with it, regardless, but in doing so you have to try to make the reality fit your model, and unfortunately, it doesn't. Not even a little bit.

Yes I've read many books by writers including Valee and Randles. I've read books on abduction cases and I've met people who claim to be abducted. The idea isn't something I'm making up because it "works " for me. It's the most logical way of seeing the subject. Hypnosis has been responsible for many problems and actually it's been debated whether or not these psychologists have implanted alien abduction thoughts into their subjects brains. You have to realise that there are many radio and electro-magnetic pulses eminating off from mobile phone masts, airwaves, TV signals, even sounds of car engines and alarms can disturb the brain of living creatures. It also creates stress, which people may not be aware. Sometimes hallucinations are seen. How does the idea I presented "not fit"? Perhaps with you it doesn't because you much prefer to believe that the earth is under an alien invasion.

[byrdsmaniac]

Spacegurl wrote:
"It's very poor manners to edit and add more stuff on old posts that I already answered when you could've just written a brand new post. You didn't have all this text when I last saw it. You added it, to make it look as if you wrote it earlier so now other people viewing this thread will assume that it was already here and I've avoided answering it. That is a very crude tactic of a poster who can't properly debate."

I had posted this much:
"And the proper way to read your posts would be...?
With eyes wide shut, evidently."

Then I went on to another thread, but it occurred to me that I should ask you to explain your viewpoint, so I went back to modify the post.
At that time, your response had not been posted, and I was working on my modification when you posted your response. I was unaware of the fact that you had posted a response, and after I had modified my post, I hit
"submit reply", but didn't bother to check the thread afterwards, so really,
I was unaware of it. No dirty tricks intended.

As for the rest of what you've written, all I can say is you go around in circles, but you don't answer the obvious questions that arise when someone tries to make sense of what you've written. I have no problem with someone offering an explanation that isn't the standard perception, but it has to account for what the experiencers say takes place.
You only answer questions that pertain to your viewpoint, and not very convincingly at that.
Case in point:
"I said that grey aliens are visions seen under hypnosis, as they are, or mistaken sightings. UFO's are a seperate issue."
So: when people report that they were in their beds, and a bunch of 'aliens'
came into the room, and there was a light coming in from the window from what seemed to be a nearby 'UFO', that really what was happening is that they, having been hypnotized prior to the event,
were delusional, and the UFO was a Jungian projection, totally unrelated to what seemed to be going on.
And if it wasn't a psychological 'UFO', then it was just - oh, I don't know - Venus, or car headlights in the night.
De Nile is a river in Egypt, spacegurl. You've offered no explanation for when, and how, the thousands of people who've had this experience were taken to be hypnotized, or where. You've offered no explanation of who the "brutal humans doing this to selected individuals" are, or what their motive is.You haven't addressed many other issues which relate to the abduction experience, which you would know about if you were as well-versed in the subject as you would like people to think.

"Yes I've read many books by writers including Valee and Randles."

Not a bad start. How about books by Hopkins, Strieber, or Dave Jacobs?
Or any other book that pertains to what the experiencers themselves say happens? Kevin Randle did not believe in the abduction stories when he wrote his first books, but he has since changed his mind, so you may want to check out some of his later material. He's an amenable fellow, and understands your point of view, so if you ever have the chance to talk things over with him, I'm sure he'll be the gentleman that he always is.
Whoops. You meant Jenny Randles, I believe. Jenny Randles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia My mistake.

"...you much prefer to believe that the earth is under an alien invasion."

If that's what you want to call it. I don't think of it as an invasion as much as something that has been going on for millenia. And yes, I'd rather believe that than that "brutal human beings" are roaming the night, hypnotising unsuspecting victims and implanting them with pieces of metal, because they live near a nuclear plant or chemical waste dump, and, having been defiled by it, they are now sufficiently crazy to believe that they've been abducted by aliens, if they've been properly programmed. (I think that's what you were saying, isn't it? :confused:)

I don't expect you to ever really change. You'll make a great debunker for the powers-that-be some day. They'll even make sure you get grants to do the kind of "research" that supports your point of view! It's a great racket, and you can make a comfortable living from it, as long as you tow the line, and tell people "There's nothing going on here; move along!" They'll really like that.
But as for myself, I'm not about to call everyone a liar, and insult them to their faces by labeling myself "an expert" who can dismiss what they've personally experienced with bombastic pronouncements about what is so, and what isn't.

[skyver]

So Spacegurl, are you saying that there it is impossible for there to be any other form of life out there? (or in?) And no I ain't being sarcastic, just trying to see it from your angle. I know there is "something" out there. That something defies physics as we know it or have been so far taught.

[spacegurl]

So Spacegurl, are you saying that there it is impossible for there to be any other form of life out there? (or in?) And no I ain't being sarcastic, just trying to see it from your angle. I know there is "something" out there. That something defies physics as we know it or have been so far taught.

No I'm not saying that. I believe it's very likely that there are other intelligent lifeforms elsewhere in the universe but it doesn't mean they're here abducting people. I'm certain that once upon a time an advanced race from another star system came here, but it was a very long time ago. We regarded them as gods, who flew in winged chariots, and they resembled us. Read "Chariots of the Gods" by Erich Von Daniken to get an idea.

That's besides the point.

I don't think UFO's people are seeing today are actually visitors from outer space but more like a combination of psychosis/subconsious symbols, mental imagery or some could be secret aircrafts. Also the visions of grey aliens are another seperate issue. They're not real. The problem is most people tie in UFO's = greys = outer space. They can't seperate these things.

[spacegurl]

So: when people report that they were in their beds, and a bunch of 'aliens'
came into the room, and there was a light coming in from the window from what seemed to be a nearby 'UFO', that really what was happening is that they, having been hypnotized prior to the event,
were delusional, and the UFO was a Jungian projection, totally unrelated to what seemed to be going on.
And if it wasn't a psychological 'UFO', then it was just - oh, I don't know - Venus, or car headlights in the night.

Do you believe these people to be a reliable source then? Do you believe their every word because they "remember" it after going through hypnosis? people are hallucinating, either because they're tired or taken medication. Do these people who "are kidnapped from their beds at night" remember clearly that this happened? No, Byrdsmaniac. They are only aware of this once they've been under hypnosis and then the vision appears. I keep saying that hypnosis can't be trusted as suggestive thoughts are implanted. If anyone is actually consious at the time, then they were hallucinating or suffering from a breakdown. You lack knowledge of how the brain works. I'm not going in circles with my arguement. You're avoiding it completely because you really believe in the alien abduction thing.

De Nile is a river in Egypt, spacegurl. You've offered no explanation for when, and how, the thousands of people who've had this experience were taken to be hypnotized, or where. You've offered no explanation of who the "brutal humans doing this to selected individuals" are, or what their motive is.You haven't addressed many other issues which relate to the abduction experience, which you would know about if you were as well-versed in the subject as you would like people to think.


You haven't answered my questions either.
You're assuming that these encounters are real. I said that if they were real, it was more likely to be done by humans and not aliens. You haven't answered all of my questions either. I don't have to explain anything to you except that Greys don't exist and they're all in your head. You don't believe humans would treat people like that... Are you naive? The individuals and motives wouldn't be concerned with saving the planet, considering that these experiences are real.


Not a bad start. How about books by Hopkins, Strieber, or Dave Jacobs?
Or any other book that pertains to what the experiencers themselves say happens? Kevin Randle did not believe in the abduction stories when he wrote his first books, but he has since changed his mind, so you may want to check out some of his later material. He's an amenable fellow, and understands your point of view, so if you ever have the chance to talk things over with him, I'm sure he'll be the gentleman that he always is.

You're very conditioned by the UFO/alien sub culture.


If that's what you want to call it. I don't think of it as an invasion as much as something that has been going on for millenia. And yes, I'd rather believe that than that "brutal human beings" are roaming the night, hypnotising unsuspecting victims and implanting them with pieces of metal, because they live near a nuclear plant or chemical waste dump, and, having been defiled by it, they are now sufficiently crazy to believe that they've been abducted by aliens, if they've been properly programmed. (I think that's what you were saying, isn't it? :confused:)

So you're saying I'm crazy for not believing in grey aliens? Can you prove it? You haven't told me about your experience. You've just admitted that you'd rather accept greys doing this abduction business for millenia than accept that it's humans or the stuff never happened at all. Again I'll ask you - do you think we should all believe in what people say without hard evidence? Do you think innocent people should be sent to prison for crimes they never committed only because someone saw it under hypnosis?

I don't expect you to ever really change. You'll make a great debunker for the powers-that-be some day. They'll even make sure you get grants to do the kind of "research" that supports your point of view! It's a great racket, and you can make a comfortable living from it, as long as you tow the line, and tell people "There's nothing going on here; move along!" They'll really like that.
But as for myself, I'm not about to call everyone a liar, and insult them to their faces by labeling myself "an expert" who can dismiss what they've personally experienced with bombastic pronouncements about what is so, and what isn't.

Resorting to abuse won't help you in this debate, in fact it's put me off completely. You're getting personal and quite nasty as you can't stand it when someone has a different opinion to yours.That behaviour, especially when said at the end, is a tactic used by sheeple that can't tolerate someone else's viewpoint. I never actually called people liars or insulted them or claimed myself to be an expert. I was sharing my opinion. If you wish to keep this discussion going then lay off the verbal attacks otherwise I'm not going to waste my time on this thread.

[kasalt]

I'm certain that once upon a time an advanced race from another star system came here, but it was a very long time ago...I don't think UFO's people are seeing today are actually visitors from outer space but more like a combination of psychosis/subconsious symbols, mental imagery or some could be secret aircrafts.

Spacegurl, have a look at this footage of UFOs from NASA's space shuttle mission STS-80 and tell me what you think:

ufo nasa - YouTube

UFO, Never Doubt Again - YouTube

[gorgeousbutterfly]

I did explain it but you just don't like it.


I actually did explain how people see greys. Gorgeousbutterfly said she saw what looked like grey aliens in the window and I asked her questions about that and she didn't answer. You must always look for other possible explainations for curious things, instead of jumping to the conclusion they're aliens or ghosts. It's the way of rational, civilised people otherwise we'll all become supersticious as our Dark Aged ancestors. Did you see whatever it was she saw too? If not then how do you know for sure they were aliens? Please go ahead and describe what you saw then.


.

WHAT haven't i explained? I answered every one of your questions. you are just beyond being rude. saying i didn't "answer them" when we had a conversation about this here that everybody could see. i am no longer going to respond to this nonsense, good bye. I TOLD you that my intuition told me it was aliens. you are being overly rational. people need to be balanced with the rational and intuitive sides... your overly rational side also explains your coldness and rudeness and disregard to people's feelings.

[gorgeousbutterfly]

not everything can be explained by rationality. i trust my intuition. when my intuition tells me so and so is going to happen and it does you have no choice but to trust it. so when it told me it was "aliens" that i saw then i trusted it.

[byrdsmaniac]

SG: "Do you believe these people to be a reliable source then?"
Yes, of course! They're the ones who lived it. Some of them may be hallucinating, but there's no reason to believe they all are.

SG: "If anyone is actually consious at the time, then they were hallucinating or suffering from a breakdown. You lack knowledge of how the brain works."

:rolleyes: What about: They saw what they saw? They felt what they felt.
They experienced what they said they did? Who are you to say that they didn't?

SG: "I don't have to explain anything to you except that Greys don't exist and they're all in your head."
Says who? Is this so because you have just decreed it to be so? I don't think so! Why don't greys exist? Why can't they exist? Sure they exist. Do you exist? If you exist, why can't they? Saying they don't exist doesn't make them not exist, unless you are the master of the Earth manifestation of reality, and I don't think that you are; at least not by yourself. (I think we all share in that, along with other intelligences.)

SG: "So you're saying I'm crazy for not believing in grey aliens?"

Who said anything about you being crazy? That's a whole other matter, but you might be crazy whether you believe in grey aliens or not.

SG:"You're assuming that these encounters are real. I said that if they were real, it was more likely to be done by humans and not aliens."
That would seem to be probable, until you investigate and find that it is not necessarily so. When the facts don't mesh with what you suppose should be true, then it's time to reconsider your own hypothesis.

SG: "You don't believe humans would treat people like that... Are you naive?"
Like what? Like the way the abductors treat the abductees? I wouldn't put anything past humans who have been corrupted or misguided. That has nothing directly to do with alien abductions, imo. You're comparing apples and oranges. Or greys and humans.

SG: "Again I'll ask you - do you think we should all believe in what people say without hard evidence?"
Yes, as a general rule. Why not? There are liars among us, of course, and practical jokers, but most people are honest. Why assume that what they tell you isn't true (at least as they understand it)? If they tell you something that is hard to understand or believe, that doesn't mean that they're lying per se. It just means that it doesn't match what your experience tells you is believable. At that point, it's natural to say to a person, "You're putting me on, right?" But if they say, "No, that's really what happened.", then you can believe them, or you can have doubts, but why go so far as to say that what they've said has happened cannot be the truth?
When you make statements like: "Greys don't exist and they're all in your head.", it is you who is responsible to back up that statement with evidence. It's not the responsibility of the person who has had an experience with an alien to take your word for it. You're the one who has the burden of proof in such a situation, but you seem to think that by making such a statement, it becomes the truth, and everyone should agree with what you've decided should be true.
If we all lived in a world where only the things we wished to be true were true, there would be no mosquitos. Unfortunately, they're here with or without our approval, so we're not to the point where what we wish would be true is what we see manifested around us.

SG: "Do you think innocent people should be sent to prison for crimes they never committed only because someone saw it under hypnosis?"

No, but when has that ever happened? You're all obsessed about hypnosis,and how false memories can be induced by a hypnotic suggestion, or how soul memories can be accessed by it, but there are many people who have had encounters and interaction with aliens who have not been hypnotised to recall the events, and they recall them, in some measure.
Blaming hypnosis, cell phones, the UFO/alien sub culture, exhaustion, mental dysfunction, etc. for the existence of aliens is like blaming those things for the existence of your dog or cat.

SG: "I never actually called people liars or insulted them or claimed myself to be an expert. I was sharing my opinion. If you wish to keep this discussion going then lay off the verbal attacks otherwise I'm not going to waste my time on this thread."

No, you never actually called people liars - that much is true. Whether they were insulted by your know-it-all demeanor is something only they would know, but I certainly haven't been impressed by it. Even so, I don't mean that as an insult; I just see your attitude as being a desperate attempt on the part of your ego to not have to deal with an aspect of reality that currently exists on the planet, by simply denying it. And actually, that's not altogether a bad approach, as long as you understand that it has, at its roots, the desire to manifest a reality where nothing horrible exists. That may be what we're all supposed to be doing here, so that, for instance, if we all desired it strongly enough, mosquitos would have to stop being here.
And so, by the same token, if you don't want grey aliens to exist here, you would want to organize a campaign to have people not allow them here by collectively willing them not to exist here, but that isn't the same as just denying, on a personal level, that they do.
Whether you continue to post in this thread is your choice, but given the title of the thread, I'd like to see more from people who've had the experience, and who can talk about it first-hand. And oddly enough, that may include you, spacegurl, if you let the memories come through, despite all that ranting from Mr. Ego D. Nile.

[spacegurl]

Spacegurl, have a look at this footage of UFOs from NASA's space shuttle mission STS-80 and tell me what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pawTzpNKW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0jpUPLqLhA

Like I said before, UFO's and grey aliens are a seperate issue.

[spacegurl]

WHAT haven't i explained? I answered every one of your questions. you are just beyond being rude. saying i didn't "answer them" when we had a conversation about this here that everybody could see. i am no longer going to respond to this nonsense, good bye. I TOLD you that my intuition told me it was aliens. you are being overly rational. people need to be balanced with the rational and intuitive sides... your overly rational side also explains your coldness and rudeness and disregard to people's feelings.

You didn't explain why you thought they were grey aliens other than trusting your instincts so I mentioned that. You can't always rely on instincts because it might be totally wrong. You're basically saying you want to believe they were grey aliens and that's it, and you want others to accept it was what you saw even if they could've been just your imagination.

[spacegurl]

SG: "Do you believe these people to be a reliable source then?"
Yes, of course! They're the ones who lived it. Some of them may be hallucinating, but there's no reason to believe they all are.

SG: "If anyone is actually consious at the time, then they were hallucinating or suffering from a breakdown. You lack knowledge of how the brain works."

:rolleyes: What about: They saw what they saw? They felt what they felt.
They experienced what they said they did? Who are you to say that they didn't?

SG: "I don't have to explain anything to you except that Greys don't exist and they're all in your head."
Says who? Is this so because you have just decreed it to be so? I don't think so! Why don't greys exist? Why can't they exist? Sure they exist. Do you exist? If you exist, why can't they? Saying they don't exist doesn't make them not exist, unless you are the master of the Earth manifestation of reality, and I don't think that you are; at least not by yourself. (I think we all share in that, along with other intelligences.)

SG: "So you're saying I'm crazy for not believing in grey aliens?"

Who said anything about you being crazy? That's a whole other matter, but you might be crazy whether you believe in grey aliens or not.

SG:"You're assuming that these encounters are real. I said that if they were real, it was more likely to be done by humans and not aliens."
That would seem to be probable, until you investigate and find that it is not necessarily so. When the facts don't mesh with what you suppose should be true, then it's time to reconsider your own hypothesis.

SG: "You don't believe humans would treat people like that... Are you naive?"
Like what? Like the way the abductors treat the abductees? I wouldn't put anything past humans who have been corrupted or misguided. That has nothing directly to do with alien abductions, imo. You're comparing apples and oranges. Or greys and humans.

SG: "Again I'll ask you - do you think we should all believe in what people say without hard evidence?"
Yes, as a general rule. Why not? There are liars among us, of course, and practical jokers, but most people are honest. Why assume that what they tell you isn't true (at least as they understand it)? If they tell you something that is hard to understand or believe, that doesn't mean that they're lying per se. It just means that it doesn't match what your experience tells you is believable. At that point, it's natural to say to a person, "You're putting me on, right?" But if they say, "No, that's really what happened.", then you can believe them, or you can have doubts, but why go so far as to say that what they've said has happened cannot be the truth?
When you make statements like: "Greys don't exist and they're all in your head.", it is you who is responsible to back up that statement with evidence. It's not the responsibility of the person who has had an experience with an alien to take your word for it. You're the one who has the burden of proof in such a situation, but you seem to think that by making such a statement, it becomes the truth, and everyone should agree with what you've decided should be true.
If we all lived in a world where only the things we wished to be true were true, there would be no mosquitos. Unfortunately, they're here with or without our approval, so we're not to the point where what we wish would be true is what we see manifested around us.

SG: "Do you think innocent people should be sent to prison for crimes they never committed only because someone saw it under hypnosis?"

No, but when has that ever happened? You're all obsessed about hypnosis,and how false memories can be induced by a hypnotic suggestion, or how soul memories can be accessed by it, but there are many people who have had encounters and interaction with aliens who have not been hypnotised to recall the events, and they recall them, in some measure.
Blaming hypnosis, cell phones, the UFO/alien sub culture, exhaustion, mental dysfunction, etc. for the existence of aliens is like blaming those things for the existence of your dog or cat.

SG: "I never actually called people liars or insulted them or claimed myself to be an expert. I was sharing my opinion. If you wish to keep this discussion going then lay off the verbal attacks otherwise I'm not going to waste my time on this thread."

No, you never actually called people liars - that much is true. Whether they were insulted by your know-it-all demeanor is something only they would know, but I certainly haven't been impressed by it. Even so, I don't mean that as an insult; I just see your attitude as being a desperate attempt on the part of your ego to not have to deal with an aspect of reality that currently exists on the planet, by simply denying it. And actually, that's not altogether a bad approach, as long as you understand that it has, at its roots, the desire to manifest a reality where nothing horrible exists. That may be what we're all supposed to be doing here, so that, for instance, if we all desired it strongly enough, mosquitos would have to stop being here.
And so, by the same token, if you don't want grey aliens to exist here, you would want to organize a campaign to have people not allow them here by collectively willing them not to exist here, but that isn't the same as just denying, on a personal level, that they do.
Whether you continue to post in this thread is your choice, but given the title of the thread, I'd like to see more from people who've had the experience, and who can talk about it first-hand. And oddly enough, that may include you, spacegurl, if you let the memories come through, despite all that ranting from Mr. Ego D. Nile.

I'll ask one more time on this thread: Where is the scientific evidence for grey aliens?
As rational adult human beings you should put reason before belief. What you're suggesting is no different to the peasants of the Middle Ages who believed in superstitions. Your way of thinking is no different to why so many people were burned as witches. You can believe in grey aliens if you want but it doesn't mean to say they're real.

[kasalt]

Spacegurl, have a look at this footage of UFOs from NASA's space shuttle mission STS-80 and tell me what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pawTzpNKW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0jpUPLqLhA


Talk to me, you never talk to me.
Ooh, it seems that I can speak.
I can hear my voice shoutin' out.

But there's no reply at all.

Look at me, you never look at me.
Ooh, I've been sittin, starin', seems so long.
But you're lookin' through me
Like I wasn't here at all.

No reply. There's no reply at all.

Dance with me, you never dance with me.
Ooh, it seems that I can move.
I'm close to you, close as I can get.

Yet there's no reply at all.
There's no reply at all.

Is anybody list'nin? Oh, there's no reply at all...

-Genesis

[spacegurl]

Wanting attention Kasalt? I already replied to you.

[kasalt]

Wanting attention Kasalt? I already replied to you.

Sorry spacegurl. No, I'm not wanting any undue attention, I just overlooked it somehow...

Nevertheless, your quote was: "I don't think UFO's people are seeing today are actually visitors from outer space but more like a combination of psychosis/subconsious symbols, mental imagery or some could be secret aircrafts."

So I'm wondering which of the above you think you are seeing in the NASA video? I'm assuming that the only viable option you leave open for yourself is "secret aircrafts". Is that what you think they may be?

[spacegurl]

Sorry spacegurl. No, I'm not wanting any undue attention, I just overlooked it somehow...

Nevertheless, your quote was: "I don't think UFO's people are seeing today are actually visitors from outer space but more like a combination of psychosis/subconsious symbols, mental imagery or some could be secret aircrafts."

So I'm wondering which of the above you think you are seeing in the NASA video? I'm assuming that the only viable option you leave open for yourself is "secret aircrafts". Is that what you think they may be?

I've seen this footage before, on TV probably. Not only is it bad quality but I can't make out if that is supposed to be the earth behind it. I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be seeing on these videos. The flashes of light in the background, the small whizzing objects, the glowing debris and the blurry spheres with dark centres. What is it meant to be? Are they all "unusual" in your opinion? If you look closely at some objects they go a bit transparent. This is what happens when tinier objects move closely in front of the camera and it becomes very blurred and creates a large transparent shape. Do you think these are alien UFO's? Why can't they be astronomical? it's possible that these objects are natural. If I'm right that the earth is shown in the background on the videos then the flashes of light are weather storms. The whizzing objets are meteors. The glowing lights and passing spheres that move at different speeds then stop could be other objects in space, they might even come from the space crafts. I'm not saying they're not UFO's, they could be some kind of anomolies but also there's no indication the shapes aren't normal things either. What do NASA(or whoever owns the film) say about it?

[kasalt]

These craft are clearly signs of intelligent life. They hover and change speed and direction. There's more video evidence here:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/edge/video/

[illuminotti]

Another thread hijacked by spacegurl,
as a lurker i read through threads, they go well, then spacegurl appears and it turns into a row, hijacked thread scares the others off who dont want to keep getting debunked, when it is their personal experience!!

[kasalt]

I welcome a healthy sort of skepticism, but some people are in sheer denial.