Serious warning about the Freemasons

[secondfamilyuk]

Protect your children today, warn them about the Secret Societies now, before it's too late. The Masons badly want to mind-control as many kids as possible to protect their power and control. Freemasonry is a dangerous criminal cult, network, organisation.

They will tell your kids it's all good when in fact it is the opposite. Your kids will become Masonic drones/slaves and they in turn will destroy your whole family and society with it. How can one person talk to another, knowing this evil is out there ?

People don't realise that Freemasonry is also Mormons, Opus Dei, Jehovah's Witnesses, Common Purpose, Round Table, Speculative Society, Knights of St. Columba, Rotarians, Shriners, Co-Masons, Eastern Star (female masons), etc.

Do not listen to one word from a Mason's mouth. They can only repeat or defend their brainwash, they are told nothing else. They are also sworn to protect each other. They have been dehumanised and will only listen to their twisted Masonic Controllers.

The Freekmasons use hundreds of different names worldwide to confuse and deceive. We have challenged them all over the Net (13 months ago) to come and talk to their victims in front of a live, filmed audience and they have refused, because it's all true.

Checkout www.secondfamily-uk.com www.ljpr.info www.henrymakow.com www.rense.com www.ivanfraser.com
Far too many to list here, just follow the links and read the truth for yourselves. Your future depends on this knowledge.

Our advice to all members of this criminal organisation is to leave today, modern technology will expose and incriminate "YOU".

Contact your local politician or media, this has to be banned immediately. Please forward this to everyone you care about. ASAP

[chrism]

Protect your children today, warn them about the Secret Societies now, before it's too late. The Masons badly want to mind-control as many kids as possible to protect their power and control. Freemasonry is a dangerous criminal cult, network, organisation.

Freemasonry is not a Criminal organisation. If it was we would be shut down by the courts, lodges would be confiscated and we would be 'underground'. This is not the case. You may disagree with our organisation, as is your right, and you have freedom to express your opinions which I will happily support and fight for if necessary, but get your facts right.

They will tell your kids it's all good when in fact it is the opposite. Your kids will become Masonic drones/slaves and they in turn will destroy your whole family and society with it. How can one person talk to another, knowing this evil is out there ?

I don't talk to kids that often, and would not be telling them everything is good when I agree with you, much can be done to improve our lives. We have asked before for proof of the destruction Freemasonry wields, and you have hardly been forthcoming.

People don't realise that Freemasonry is also Mormons, Opus Dei, Jehovah's Witnesses, Common Purpose, Round Table, Speculative Society, Knights of St. Columba, Rotarians, Shriners, Co-Masons, Eastern Star (female masons), etc.

I know a lot of these groups will disagree with you - but OK, some are similar. After all, there are a lot of charities in the world, they collect money and do good things with it. One good thing leads to another, which is why all of these organisations exist.

Many of the ones you have listed I would not agree at all have anything to do with freemasonry, especially Opus Dei.

Do not listen to one word from a Mason's mouth. They can only repeat or defend their brainwash, they are told nothing else. They are also sworn to protect each other. They have been dehumanised and will only listen to their twisted Masonic Controllers.

Really? The obligations are not to each other or for our own protection. Try reading them - they are all available online. OK - I may have been dehumanised, but that's Sky News for you. And as for my masonic controllers, I have enough trouble programming the video thanks.

The Freekmasons use hundreds of different names worldwide to confuse and deceive. We have challenged them all over the Net (13 months ago) to come and talk to their victims in front of a live, filmed audience and they have refused, because it's all true.

Aha. Your continued use of the Fallacy (they didn't come so it's all true) is as transparent as it is non-sequitous. Come come, joe, this is a forum, give us your evidence. If we cannot dispute it THEN claim your victory.

Checkout www.secondfamily-uk.com www.ljpr.info www.henrymakow.com www.rense.com www.ivanfraser.com
Far too many to list here, just follow the links and read the truth for yourselves. Your future depends on this knowledge.

We have seen this before. 'Far too many to list here'? - this is a forum, on the internet, YOU CANNOT FILL IT UP (unless there are billions of links, that is). Most people mow look for the evidence themselves rather than trusting to deranged and paranoid individuals simply chanting over and over again.

Our advice to all members of this criminal organisation is to leave today, modern technology will expose and incriminate "YOU".

Once again - just to make it clear - freemasonry is not criminal. Even if we corruptly control the courts to make it legal, this does not change the fact that we are acting completely legally. And we are not. Once again, accusation requires substantiation - please give us your evidence!

Contact your local politician or media, this has to be banned immediately. Please forward this to everyone you care about. ASAP

Ban what??: People meeting? Discussion? Debate? What part of freedom of speech and freedom of expression do you find so vile to you that you want it banned?

I have seen this before so many times and thought I would give it just one attempt...

[mike martin]

The usual inane stuff

Roughly translated visit our site and give us some money in the form of a donation for post and packing.

Pull the other one.

Mike

[chestnutlodge]

chrism - you are more patient than me. I just thought "who in their right minds could believe such drivel?" I then forgot where I was!

The beloved Henry above on the link will not go down well with 'tin tennis', as he wants to ban feminism and would appear to want women to go back to the kitchen. Dont start on homosexuality. Oh the Jews are the NWO not freemasosnry and the Bank of England is at fault somewhere too.

So extremists promoting extremists.

Care in the Community was never a good idea.

[jacob sladder]

chrism - you are more patient than me. I just thought "who in their right minds could believe such drivel?" I then forgot where I was!

The beloved Henry above on the link will not go down well with 'tin tennis', as he wants to ban feminism and would appear to want women to go back to the kitchen. Dont start on homosexuality. Oh the Jews are the NWO not freemasosnry and the Bank of England is at fault somewhere too.

So extremists promoting extremists.

Care in the Community was never a good idea.

I'm with Bro, Chestnut - what a load of drivel!!! :eek:

[chrism]

Care in the Community was never a good idea.

But we get such fantastic conversation out of it.

[darketernal]

chrism - you are more patient than me. I just thought "who in their right minds could believe such drivel?" I then forgot where I was!




If it was laughable drivel and utter nonsense you, Mike Martin and rest of the gang would not be wasting your time posting here trying to rebuke it.

[kblood]

If Freemasons was a criminal organisation they would be shut down by the court?

Then why hasnt the CIA been shut down for drug trading long time ago? ;)

Not that I believe Freemasons are criminals, just think that way of thinking really doesnt hold up when you look at what is going on in the world. The worst criminals are the ones that cant be put behind bars.

[the guy in pink]

If Freemasons was a criminal organisation they would be shut down by the court?.

According to the several Joes' Stirling of Secondfamily all courts, Judges, Prosecutors, laywers etc are Masons, not to mention all goverments. This is why the courts will have a somewhat limited success.

[intruder]

If it was laughable drivel and utter nonsense you, Mike Martin and rest of the gang would not be wasting your time posting here trying to rebuke it.

the veracity of the posters claims aside. I DO find it peculiar that one mason here openly admitted to not reading Icke, and that Icke remains at the bottom of his reading list.

[chestnutlodge]

If it was laughable drivel and utter nonsense you, Mike Martin and rest of the gang would not be wasting your time posting here trying to rebuke it.

Its not to do with us rebuling it, thats simple as its nonsense. Its more that there are easily impressionable people in this world, even on this site who will believe this fabrication.

I also read that this site is now 1/10th mason. I can see probably max 15? Blimey not many others on this site is there.

[perry_mason]

the veracity of the posters claims aside. I DO find it peculiar that one mason here openly admitted to not reading Icke, and that Icke remains at the bottom of his reading list.

That would be me.

I have not bought a book but I have read many sources and opinions of his work, including this site.

Also, if someone started writing utter rubbish and slanderous bullsh!t about something you care about on a public forum, I'm referring to JS of course, would you not rebuke those claims?

[meridiansun]

Protect your children today, warn them about the Secret Societies now, before it's too late. The Masons badly want to mind-control as many kids as possible to protect their power and control. Freemasonry is a dangerous criminal cult, network, organisation.

They will tell your kids it's all good when in fact it is the opposite. Your kids will become Masonic drones/slaves and they in turn will destroy your whole family and society with it. How can one person talk to another, knowing this evil is out there ?

People don't realise that Freemasonry is also Mormons, Opus Dei, Jehovah's Witnesses, Common Purpose, Round Table, Speculative Society, Knights of St. Columba, Rotarians, Shriners, Co-Masons, Eastern Star (female masons), etc.

Do not listen to one word from a Mason's mouth. They can only repeat or defend their brainwash, they are told nothing else. They are also sworn to protect each other. They have been dehumanised and will only listen to their twisted Masonic Controllers.

The Freekmasons use hundreds of different names worldwide to confuse and deceive. We have challenged them all over the Net (13 months ago) to come and talk to their victims in front of a live, filmed audience and they have refused, because it's all true.

Checkout www.secondfamily-uk.com www.ljpr.info www.henrymakow.com www.rense.com www.ivanfraser.com
Far too many to list here, just follow the links and read the truth for yourselves. Your future depends on this knowledge.

Our advice to all members of this criminal organisation is to leave today, modern technology will expose and incriminate "YOU".

Contact your local politician or media, this has to be banned immediately. Please forward this to everyone you care about. ASAP

Oh come on, you said serious warning. You must be able to do better than that!

[mike martin]

If it was laughable drivel and utter nonsense you, Mike Martin and rest of the gang would not be wasting your time posting here trying to rebuke it.

Rebuke it?

How do you work that out it's just childish nonsense, no content, no evidence, no point. It's just a join-the-dots of conspiracy, all thrown together in the hope of making some money.

Some people do not want emulate David Icke to help others, they want to get rich too.

It's only good for taking the piss out of.

Mike

[danielson23uk]

I actually tried contacting these individuals using their email addresses published. They all came back as undeliverable. I'll bet their F*%king paypal account works though!

[kblood]

According to the several Joes' Stirling of Secondfamily all courts, Judges, Prosecutors, laywers etc are Masons, not to mention all goverments. This is why the courts will have a somewhat limited success.

If they get caught by the police, they still get prosecuted. Masons arent looking out for each other like family, when it comes to screwing up ;) Weakness and failure is something they do not applaud, or at least that is the impression I have gotten. Arent they kind of elitist? My guess is that they do talk about who got the most money at the lodges :D Still there probably is alot who are just regular people.

[the guy in pink]

My guess is that they do talk about who got the most money at the lodges :D Still there probably is alot who are just regular people.

Subjects at supper table? woman, sex, sport , nothing much else :)

[chrism]

kblood - I hope you are right!

My point was, freemasons are not criminal - even if they should be!

Opinions of freemasons aside, if you want to 'criminalise' it, you have to change the law to make it illegal, because at the moment there is nothig wrong with what we do.

And in those circumstances, another club would spring up to take it's place.

I am honestly surprised that some on this site (Not you, kblood) are supporting the idea of preventing free assembly and freedom of belief and expression... Not what I expected from a conspiracy-friendly site!

Chris

[chrism]

Subjects at supper table? woman, sex, sport , nothing much else :)

You forgot the awful jokes. How could you forget the awful jokes. They are awful. Really. My dad tells them and everything.

Chris

[kblood]

Subjects at supper table? woman, sex, sport , nothing much else :)

No geek masons? I work at an ISP, so although women, sex and sports do become topics, then it still is computers, Internet and technology that takes up most the time we talk :) And about wierd problems some of the customers we have or special customers.

[danielson23uk]

No geek masons? I work at an ISP, so although women, sex and sports do become topics, then it still is computers, Internet and technology that takes up most the time we talk And about wierd problems some of the customers we have or special customers.
The long winter evenings must just fly Kblood. Is anyone awake for the 9 o'clock toast?;)

[intruder]

That would be me.

I have not bought a book but I have read many sources and opinions of his work, including this site.

Also, if someone started writing utter rubbish and slanderous bullsh!t about something you care about on a public forum, I'm referring to JS of course, would you not rebuke those claims?

Hard to say, sometimes actions DO indeed speak louder than words. It could keep you busy though. Do you endlessly google anti masonic references and then try to rehabilitate them?

[intruder]

years ago, I worked a summer job at a heating and air conditioning business. The proprietor was a 32nd degree Freemason. and EVERYBODY to this now since departed "gentleman" was a "god damned son of a bitch". When he wasn't patronizing his staff he was smooth talking potential customers. COMPLETE Jekyll and Hyde. Before he departed for the airport one day, en route to a "convention" in Hawaii, he said..."now Mike...for Christ's sake get my car out back and vacuum that son of a bitch...and don't skimp, make sure you pull the goddamn mats out and get every little piece of goddamned sand and gravel OUT of that son of a bitch...and for Christ's sake, make sure the windows are spotless, and check the goddamned air would ya'!!"

yeah, a REAL pleasure to work for. I had too much pride to quit so I got myself fired.

[danielson23uk]

years ago, I worked a summer job at a heating and air conditioning business. The proprietor was a 32nd degree Freemason. and EVERYBODY to this now since departed "gentleman" was a "god damned son of a bitch". When he wasn't patronizing his staff he was smooth talking potential customers. COMPLETE Jekyll and Hyde. Before he departed for the airport one day, en route to a "convention" in Hawaii, he said..."now Mike...for Christ's sake get my car out back and vacuum that son of a bitch...and don't skimp, make sure you pull the goddamn mats out and get every little piece of goddamned sand and gravel OUT of that son of a bitch...and for Christ's sake, make sure the windows are spotless, and check the goddamned air would ya'!!"

yeah, a REAL pleasure to work for. I had too much pride to quit so I got myself fired.
The guy was obviously an arse. Would you like me to apologise for his behaviour on behalf of freemasons everywhere? I can do that if it will make you feel better. For my own part I'm sorry that anyone should have ever spoken to you like that let alone a senior mason. You seem to be well balanced enough to know that not all masons are like this man. It cannot be denied that there's a rotten apple in every barrel. But that doesn't seem plausible enough to some people. For some people, the ripe to rotten apple ratio is a poor one.
As a society we struggle to drag the stereotypical opinions of racists, homophobes and xenophobes into the 21st century but when it comes to Freemasons the moral high ground is still traded for pack behaviour as a knee jerk reaction to allegations of secrecy and clandestine networking.
Truth? You want the truth? You can't comprehend the truth because it is so dramatically understated from the dizzy heights of world domination.
The truth is that next time you need a CT scan or maybe some other pioneering medical technique to save you or your family, the chances are that that equipment or procedure has been literally bought for the community you occupy by the local Lodges. I'm not interested in WORLD DOMINATION because it would get in the way of my Freemasonry!

[intruder]

The guy was obviously an arse. Would you like me to apologise for his behaviour on behalf of freemasons everywhere? I can do that if it will make you feel better. For my own part I'm sorry that anyone should have ever spoken to you like that let alone a senior mason. You seem to be well balanced enough to know that not all masons are like this man. It cannot be denied that there's a rotten apple in every barrel. But that doesn't seem plausible enough to some people. For some people, the ripe to rotten apple ratio is a poor one.
As a society we struggle to drag the stereotypical opinions of racists, homophobes and xenophobes into the 21st century but when it comes to Freemasons the moral high ground is still traded for pack behaviour as a knee jerk reaction to allegations of secrecy and clandestine networking.
Truth? You want the truth? You can't comprehend the truth because it is so dramatically understated from the dizzy heights of world domination.
The truth is that next time you need a CT scan or maybe some other pioneering medical technique to save you or your family, the chances are that that equipment or procedure has been literally bought for the community you occupy by the local Lodges. I'm not interested in WORLD DOMINATION because it would get in the way of my Freemasonry!


not at all. one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch. I'm speaking of my limited yet very personal experiences with Freemasons.

[intruder]

would it make YOU feel better if I told you that my folks' neighbour is a Freemason and one of the nicest people I've ever met?

[danielson23uk]

Does it make you feel better?

[eternal_spirit]

You all think Secondfamily is lying etc.

What do you think he/she would have to gain by this?

[cytro]

Yes I agree about educating your children on current events. You might go lightly at first until they can fully comprehend - My boys already know what those bastards are spraying in the air and making "fake clouds" so it's a start. Educate them before they find themselves unable to cope w/ all the negativity. TV is also fake - Pulls your mind into kinda' thing and they understand......I can't quite get them to give up their psp's though :rolleyes:

[perry_mason]

Hard to say, sometimes actions DO indeed speak louder than words. It could keep you busy though. Do you endlessly google anti masonic references and then try to rehabilitate them?

Like I said, i was referring to JS and the fact that you find it odd that anyone would reply to his rubbish, using the infallible logic of:

"Well if they're replying and arguing against it, it MUST be true!"

Do you constantly google for anti-semetic BS conspiracy theories?

[perry_mason]

You all think Secondfamily is lying etc.

What do you think he/she would have to gain by this?

Money! On his site there are requests for donations to help fund his cause.

[kblood]

The long winter evenings must just fly Kblood. Is anyone awake for the 9 o'clock toast?;)

I dont need much sleep, so mostly, yea :) Is toast a geek meal? I was wondering why they serve that at night on a netcafe where I have been playing with a friend. I usually prefer playing on my own computer, but it is nice with computers with the same games on them all and able to run them :)

Well, not very masonry, so back on topic.

Seems at least two people on this forum claim that masons are harrasing them and uses electronic mind control stuff against them. There is a great thread about this technology, but it takes days to dig through :)

[eternal_spirit]

Money! On his site there are requests for donations to help fund his cause!

.........................

Jeez bet he's raking it in not!:rolleyes:

[chrism]

You all think Secondfamily is lying etc.

What do you think he/she would have to gain by this?

A certain control over his paranoia, perhaps. An emotional release maybe? Who knows his motives - only his actions are known to us.

I do not dispute that this person has suffered in the past, and he truly believes that he has suffered at the deliberate hands of masons, but we have seen him many times before. Always accusations and never the proof he claims to have.

I would have thought a forum such as this is an ideal place to show us the 'truth' and present evidence. On the freemasonry forums he would argue that the proof has been removed, but one such as this would support it - even if it is then hidden from the world at large WE would all know what is going on.

I do not know what he has to gain, but from my own personal experience within masonry I know that if anyone was targeting him, the decision to do so was not made by masonry and would not be condoned by any lodge or grand lodge.

It remains possible, of course, that he and a mason have had a dispute, and the mason has since made Joe the object of his harassment, but this is a human act not a masonic one. Once we think that someone is out to get us, anything bad which happens reinforces this. Some masons, by the law of averages, must be bastards. I happen to think that the bastard:saint proportion is lower than in everyday society, but acknowledge that they exist!

I do not say Joe is paranoid to put him down. In this day and age, we may need a bit of paranoia to keep us sane (and human) which is why I have no problem whatsoever with this forum and the often negative views portrayed on it. I think he is paranoid because time and time again the only proof he can provide is 'I know it to be true - I have the proof - I will not share it with you because you are untrustworthy' - repeated ad nauseam.

I wish I could do something to help and show him that not all masons are out to get him, but the longer he throws abuse at the organisation I hold very dear, the less compassion I have for him. Also, because of his beliefs he is very unlikely to respond to any hand of friendship which is extended with a funny shake.

Some will pray for him, some will support him, and some will condemn. I will continue to try to answer the charges put against freemasonry, because I believe that masonry is a force for good. With time, and with luck, Joe may come to understand that his history cannot be blames on freemasonry. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Sometimes good things happen to bad people. Sometime dumb luck gets involved.

ES - I hope this answers your question, if not ask more and I will try again.

Chris

[perry_mason]

.........................

Jeez bet he's raking it in not!:rolleyes:

I doubt he is raking it in as well. It doesn't mean he's not trying though. Either that or he's sadly lost the plot.

[chrism]

What Plot? Enemy of the State perhaps?

C

[secondfamilyuk]

did you know that the Freekmasons have a lot in common with the giant redwoods ? they are both pretty thick.....

secondfamily-uk.com are sitting here with mountains of evidence to show the truth about the criminal Freekmasons in front of a live filmed audience. we would prefer a weekly documentary for people to digest and watch the truth.

there is not an ounce of compassion or humanity in any masonic drone. stop this evil from getting to the kids.

we, in turn would like the Freekmasons to scientifically prove that their doctrine is true and that they haven't been conned with gobble de gook..... enough said

lol brian

-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

[icke and ham]

danelson says

next time you need a CT scan or maybe some other pioneering medical technique to save you or your family, the chances are that that equipment or procedure has been literally bought for the community you occupy by the local Lodges

dont tell second family he will think you have programed the CT to radiate people haha.

I dont believe him in all he says. he is spoiling good argueaments by making out the mason's are more clever than annyone could be

sorry not to eat some of your toast danelson my freind i was absent perhaps another time if we meet :eek:

[secondfamilyuk]

did you know that the Freekmasons have a lot in common with the giant redwoods ? they are both pretty thick.....

secondfamily-uk.com are sitting here with mountains of evidence to show the truth about the criminal Freekmasons in front of a live filmed audience. we would prefer a weekly documentary for people to digest and watch the truth.

there is not an ounce of compassion or humanity in any masonic drone. stop this evil from getting to the kids.

we, in turn would like the Freekmasons to scientifically prove that their doctrine is true and that they haven't been conned with gobble de gook..... enough said

lol brian

[chestnutlodge]

You are right we do have a lot in common, we are pretty thick... set due to the meal we eat at the meetings. We also have been around like redwoods for hundreds of years and stand tall above the rest.

Where your love show, would love to come and see it, I will bring the popcorn and I love a comedy.

No compassion in any mason, well we give an awful lot to charity for such a group.

What measurable scientific study in a controlled environment would you advocate?

Brian as an aside why do you call yourself, second family? Is it because your first abandoned you? Yes I think you have said enough.

[intruder]

Does it make you feel better?

No...as I've been up all night.and I'm at work from 9am until 9pm today.

[mike martin]

would it make YOU feel better if I told you that my folks' neighbour is a Freemason and one of the nicest people I've ever met?

It makes me feel better!

That's because it shows that you are not judging the behaviour of 5 million (ish) people around the world on the actions of one of them and that you can see that we are all different.

[intruder]

It makes me feel better!

That's because it shows that you are not judging the behaviour of 5 million (ish) people around the world on the actions of one of them and that you can see that we are all different.

my judgments shouldn't affect you adversely or otherwise.

[intruder]

but knight's and Lomas' Demolay/Shroud of Turin "science" makes my testicles contract. Is "The Second Messiah" "pop" Freemasonry? or a quick money grab?

Hidden treasure under Rosslyn Chapel, fact or fiction?

[intruder]

Pharaoh Sequenenre was Hiram Abiff?

[danielson23uk]

but knight's and Lomas' Demolay/Shroud of Turin "science" makes my testicles contract. Is "The Second Messiah" "pop" Freemasonry? or a quick money grab?

Hidden treasure under Rosslyn Chapel, fact or fiction?
Intruder,
Thanks for a constructive post. I enjoyed the Knight & Lomas reads but they are largely complete rubbish. A huge amount of supposition which can't be disproven in today's times.
The Sequenenre thesis was dropped like a hot potato for the sequels of Second Messiah etc.
Secrets under Rosslyn Chapel? Well how would they maintain the place if they didn't have scores of masonic pilgrims and conspiracy theorists visiting the 'home of the Holy Grail'?
Read the Rosslyn Hoax.

[intruder]

Intruder,
Thanks for a constructive post. I enjoyed the Knight & Lomas reads but they are largely complete rubbish. A huge amount of supposition which can't be disproven in today's times.
The Sequenenre thesis was dropped like a hot potato for the sequels of Second Messiah etc.
Secrets under Rosslyn Chapel? Well how would they maintain the place if they didn't have scores of masonic pilgrims and conspiracy theorists visiting the 'home of the Holy Grail'?
Read the Rosslyn Hoax.

Ok....so two Freemasons have published complete rubbish. And it's their right, and certainly not your responsibility to educate a gullible public that Masons will stoop to pop culture as a quick money grab.

[intruder]

I could speculate that deception was a forethought to Knight and Lomas.

[danielson23uk]

Intruder I could never honestly say that Freemasons will never take advantage of popular fashions or stories to make a living. I really wish they had made a better job of the facts and I think they believe they did.
Ultimately though their books are largely unoffensive and popular by their romanticism of bygone ages. Are you suggesting that as masons they must only write factual content and leave the fiction to the likes of Dan Brown and Raymond Khouray? If I could write like them I wouldn't be doing night shifts either.

[intruder]

Intruder I could never honestly say that Freemasons will never take advantage of popular fashions or stories to make a living. I really wish they had made a better job of the facts and I think they believe they did.
Ultimately though their books are largely unoffensive and popular by their romanticism of bygone ages. Are you suggesting that as masons they must only write factual content and leave the fiction to the likes of Dan Brown and Raymond Khouray? If I could write like them I wouldn't be doing night shifts either.
can you prove that the aforementioned authors, Brown and Khouray, are NOT Freemasons?

[danielson23uk]

can you prove that the aforementioned authors, Brown and Khouray, are NOT Freemasons?
No, intruder, I can't because I have a life. Can you prove they are? Does it matter one way or the other?

[eternal_spirit]

No, intruder, I can't because I have a life. Can you prove they are? Does it matter one way or the other?

It does, because they are selling the lie about the Jesus bloodlines myth saying that certain people are of Jesus lineage.

This could cause chaos in the religous world and some Christians will worship who ever is said to be related to Jesus. Of course it would be a false messiah etc.

[danielson23uk]

It does, because they are selling the lie about the Jesus bloodlines myth saying that certain people are of Jesus lineage.

This could casue chaoes in the religous world and some Christians will worship who ever is said to be related to Jesus. Of course it would be a false messiah etc.
Do you mean more chaos than suggesting that the World's leaders and monarchs are all reptilian aliens with the sole purpose of persecuting and suppressing freedom to suit their own vile ends? Let me know when the penny drops.

[eternal_spirit]

Do you mean more chaos than suggesting that the World's leaders and monarchs are all reptilian aliens with the sole purpose of persecuting and suppressing freedom to suit their own vile ends? Let me know when the penny drops.
..............................


I thought they where mostly Masons, who mentiond reptiles......You're on the wrong thread.

[intruder]

No, intruder, I can't because I have a life. Can you prove they are? Does it matter one way or the other?

the fact that I disappoint you suggests that you may not really have the life you think you do.

[danielson23uk]

the fact that I disappoint you suggests that you may not really have the life you think you do.
LOL. ok. I'll keep my English to a more rudimentary (that means basic) level for you because obviously the verb to disappoint means I'm inconsolable with grief over your inability to debate and converse objectively. I'm disappointed that you feel the need to ask questions that you don't want answers to. As for my life..... Life is good for me regardless of what anyone else thinks.
By the way is it custom on this forum to digress with abuse and pedantry when you are unable to convey your point patently?

[chrism]

the fact that I disappoint you suggests that you may not really have the life you think you do.

Surely the life you THINK you have is the only one which matters?

If I cannot perceive my REAL life, then what is wrong with living a good one within the boundaries of my own perception. Truth is therefore rather subjective.

My brother is severely autistic, and I am convinced lives his life surrounded by all sorts of pleasing creatures and pleasurable sensations. Who can tell him that those sensations don't exist, when he knows from his own experiences that they are very real. He remains one of the happiest people I know, although he is pretty much imprisoned within a specialist care home.

Chris

[danielson23uk]

Surely the life you THINK you have is the only one which matters?

If I cannot perceive my REAL life, then what is wrong with living a good one within the boundaries of my own perception. Truth is therefore rather subjective.

My brother is severely autistic, and I am convinced lives his life surrounded by all sorts of pleasing creatures and pleasurable sensations. Who can tell him that those sensations don't exist, when he knows from his own experiences that they are very real. He remains one of the happiest people I know, although he is pretty much imprisoned within a specialist care home.

Chris
Chris these people enjoy persecuting innocent people. Maybe your brother will get his own thread on here!

[intruder]

Chris these people enjoy persecuting innocent people. Maybe your brother will get his own thread on here!

wow...you two really are sensitive. My intent was to indicate that his disappointment in me is somewhat tragic, as there are much more pertinent issues to find "disappointment" in.

[intruder]

Chris these people enjoy persecuting innocent people. Maybe your brother will get his own thread on here!

you accuse ME of having a "sharp tongue", yet you're implying that I would mock an autistic person? You haven't even seen my "cover', yet you've already burned the book. besides, there is vitriol from other people, the likes of which I have not engaged in.

[danielson23uk]

wow...you two really are sensitive. My intent was to indicate that his disappointment in me is somewhat tragic, as there are much more pertinent issues to find "disappointment" in.
You were rude Intruder. You suggested I had no life and now you think we're sensitive? Maybe you're right. Maybe we are sensitive. We're certainly not used to making assumptions about a person's life fulfilment or the size of peoples' metaphorical balls or having them made about us. But we're just scumbag masons with no lives aren't we?

[intruder]

you accuse ME of having a "sharp tongue", yet you're implying that I would mock an autistic person? You haven't even seen my "cover', yet you've already burned the book. besides, there is vitriol from other people, the likes of which I have not engaged in.

and I called you "scumbag"?

[eternal_spirit]

You were rude Intruder. You suggested I had no life and now you think we're sensitive? Maybe you're right. Maybe we are sensitive. We're certainly not used to making assumptions about a person's life fulfilment or the size of peoples' metaphorical balls or having them made about us. But we're just scumbag masons with no lives aren't we?

..........................

I've seen you lot dish out the abuse on here.
So, don't whine, it's hypocritical. Besides if you cannot appreaciate a bit of banter and humor, that's your issue.

You've been here 5 mins you have no idea, how much abuse us regular members have thrown at us by other regular members.

I've been called allsorts, before I call back.

Let's stay on topic.

[danielson23uk]

..........................

I've seen you lot dish out the abuse on here.
So, don't whine, it's hypocritical. Besides if you cannot appreaciate a bit of banter and humor, that's your issue.

You've been here 5 mins you have no idea, how much abuse us regular members have thrown at us by other regular members.

I've been called allsorts, before I call back.

Let's stay on topic.
Here's the problem eternal_spirit. When you slag people off you cause them to digress so I'm afraid you can't digress to attack me and then decide that YOU want to return to topic. Just because you find it acceptable to be abused and abuse people it doesn't mean I do. I have only ever defended what I perceive to be unfair or unjust posts. What I have done in my five minutes here is completely undermine the way in which you choose to view a group of upstanding individuals who happen to call themselves Freemasons. My point in the main is that your opinions are bigoted and would not be tolerated had we been black, gay or muslim.
Just for the record, if it's abuse you want I can oblige. But in my copious experience of forums I've found that it solves nothing and just causes forumites to attack their peers regardless of whether they deserve it or not. Now have you come here to talk or be rude?

[geronimo]

Once again - just to make it clear - freemasonry is not criminal. Even if we corruptly control the courts to make it legal, this does not change the fact that we are acting completely legally. And we are not. Once again, accusation requires substantiation - please give us your evidence! (Quote)

Yes, on the face of it, Freemasonry is acting legally, and I have no doubt that the majority of Freemasons are well-meaning people who have no idea how secret societies are manipulated and what the agenda at the top really is - but if the judiciary and the police are essentially run (overrun, actually) by freemasons, which is definitely the case, then what role does democracy play in this? if the masonic criminal mastermind of the Brinks-Matt robbery can give a masonic distress signal to the masonic judge, and gets away with his crime, where does that leave justice? Nowhere, because justice depends on an open, uncorrupt, honest system - a system in which we, the people, who are not members of secret orders, who do not possess unlimited funds, obtain real justice.
Now this is a system which we absolutely do NOT have today, and I challenge you to demonstrate that freemasonry in particular, and secret societies in general, are free of the corruption I have just mentioned.
Remember Licio Gelli hanging under Blackfriars Bridge and the infamous P2 lodge? Isn't it the case that those who operate in secrecy, under cover of darkness, are able to get away, literally, with murder? and isn't it also the case that covert organisations like MI5 and 6 have committed a catalogue of crimes including assassination and state sponsored terrorism? they can and do, because, like the freemasons, they are able to act anonymously, with no public accountability whatsoever, without any oversight. They can do so because the members of these organisations carry out orders without questioning what those orders are for. They can do so because wealth, position, and secrecy combines in such a manner to be able to act above the law, with impunity - a classic example is the public assassination of Princess Diana, and the coverup that followed.
Chris Everard has produced an excellent documentary about this called Lady Die. I recommend it to everyone on this forum. You think French freemasons weren't involved in the fiasco, the massive pretence over this coldly calculated act? of course they were! and until freemasons themselves become aware that they are just pawns on the grand chessboard, the game will continue.

geronimo

[danielson23uk]

Geronimo,
I don't doubt that the world is corrupt. I don't doubt that many individuals within the corruption are masons. But the two are not mutually exclusive. Being a Freemason doesn't make me or any of my peers corrupt. Neither do we blindly amble through life without being objective and considering these allegations. To assume that as mere 'junior' masons we cannot possibly comprehend the skull duggery above us is quite condescending. One of my closest friends is a 33rd degree Mason. A true senior mason in absolutely every sense of the word. He has dedicated his life to helping his fellow man and contributing to his community. He's had many tragedies in his life and beat leukaemia twice. Throughout all of this he has never called the integrity of his fellow humans into doubt.
Is it not easier for you to point your venom at freemasonry with a spurious finger waving at 'they' the 'Illuminati' the 'Bildeberg Group' or some other abstract idea of a faceless entity than it is to actually believe pillars of the community who really do have no other secrets than a few symbols and passwords by which we recognise each other?
You claim that I cannot possibly know what goes on above my head because I'm not senior enough, I respectfully beg to differ.

[perry_mason]

..........................
You've been here 5 mins you have no idea, how much abuse us regular members have thrown at us by other regular members.

I've been called allsorts, before I call back.

Let's stay on topic.

So ES, over the course of a few thousand posts you haven't seen the correlation between some of the offensive garbage you put forward for our perusal and the abusive you recieve?

[darketernal]

Rebuke it?

How do you work that out it's just childish nonsense, no content, no evidence, no point. It's just a join-the-dots of conspiracy, all thrown together in the hope of making some money.

Some people do not want emulate David Icke to help others, they want to get rich too.

It's only good for taking the piss out of.

Mike

It is such children nonsense, yet you are willing to come to this site every day and discuss it.

[danielson23uk]

It is such children nonsense, yet you are willing to come to this site every day and discuss it.
Mike is referring to the allegations made by Second Family. We return here just as you do to see what people have to say and help where we can. Unfortunately a lot of our time is spent defending ourselves from cretinous insults, the likes of which, no one would let go without answer.
If the allegations were made about you, you'd respond too. The world wide web is a place where the naive read one paragraph of tripe and believe what they're being told. If you want to publish outrageous lies that you DON'T want rebuked, then don't post them on a forum. More to the point, if slagging off innocent people is your hobby, don't whinge when they have something to say about it!

[mike martin]

It is such children nonsense, yet you are willing to come to this site every day and discuss it.

DE,
I don't come back to engage with the 2nd family "team" in ant way, I just can't help myself. Each time I read their Tennants Extra inspired claims I just have to post a few words to highlight the silliness of them.

I do come back to chat with some of the others and illustrate where the Masonic Order is being misrepresented, this I do find interesting and from feedback received from some of the (non-Masonic) members of this Forum do they as well. So where's the harm?

As seekers of truth we should all get our information from different independent sources or we end up with only one side of a story and build up a jaded opinion. The benefit for me is that I get to see how some non-Masons think of Freemasonry, I also get to see what has been used to get to that position.

Mike

[danielson23uk]

Each time I read their Tennants Extra inspired claims
LOL Mike although surely it's Tennants Super or Special Brew that is the spice of their life.
Has anyone ever managed to get in touch with these people directly through their site? All email bounce back where their accounts are closed. Yet every time they post on here it's the same with endless links to THEIR site requesting donations to fund THEIR cause. Have you tried to join THEIR cause? Impossible, because there isn't one. But periodically a user of the DI will think "...They sound like they need my cash. I'll send them some to combat the scourge that is Freemasonry.."
Are you really intent on defending their actions Darketernal?

[kblood]

LOL Mike although surely it's Tennants Super or Special Brew that is the spice of their life.
Has anyone ever managed to get in touch with these people directly through their site? All email bounce back where their accounts are closed. Yet every time they post on here it's the same with endless links to THEIR site requesting donations to fund THEIR cause. Have you tried to join THEIR cause? Impossible, because there isn't one. But periodically a user of the DI will think "...They sound like they need my cash. I'll send them some to combat the scourge that is Freemasonry.."
Are you really intent on defending their actions Darketernal?

People give money to Icke, because they like his work, not because they believe it will help the cause, although it is likely to make him continue his research.

From what I have understood that is what Icke says. Although some forum users disagree, it is about spreading knowledge and doing research. That is one of the best ways to fight whatever might be going on, and have more to base their actions on. What food to buy, who to vote for, what to look out for.

It is also as some say, going from one kind of mindcontrol to another, but it seems to me that most users dont blindly follow Icke, and generally makes an oppinion of their own, or find reasons of their own to believe some of what he says.

I am sorry if I have misunderstood you, maybe you were only refering to anti masonry?

Also wether Freemasonry is about global control or not, then I find it really suspicious that it is all over the world. I find it hard to believe that the power it would give for masons to work together globally is something masons never do. All the things that masonry is said not to be about, just makes it even more suspicious. At the lodges you do not talk about business, politics and religion? Well, why not?

Seems to me the perfect way of indoctrination. First make sure your personal beliefs and doings are something you put aside when amongst masons, then when you get higher and higher, the easier it is to influence those beliefs.

Of course, if you already have the beliefs they want you to, then no problem. Welcome to the 33rd degree and lets see how you go from there ;)

I have to say that its all just speculation of course :o

[the guy in pink]

. At the lodges you do not talk about business, politics and religion? Well, why not?
:o

Some small corrections: Religion and politics are banned from discussion within the lodge. That is when the lodge is formally meeting.
At the Festive board afterwards we also tend to avoid those topics, as unsuitable, but the formal injunction against their discussion does not apply.
Business is not a banned topic within the lodge but i cannot think of an occasion when it would be discussed in open lodge.

At our supper tables business is certainly a topic for discussion between friends as in the lodges I belong to most of us are self employed in some way or another so we talk about what we do for a living.

Religion and politics are topics that divide people.
In lodge we put aside our differences to unite as friends, and learn I think that diffences of opinion and belief are not nearly as important as character.

[danielson23uk]

I am sorry if I have misunderstood you, maybe you were only refering to anti masonry?
No I was referring to Second Family the origin of this thread. They are con artists which lead innocent people to donate to their fund. I was not referring to David Icke at all, only the naive users of this forum who might be duped by the claims of Second Family.
Also wether Freemasonry is about global control or not, then I find it really suspicious that it is all over the world. I find it hard to believe that the power it would give for masons to work together globally is something masons never do. All the things that masonry is said not to be about, just makes it even more suspicious. At the lodges you do not talk about business, politics and religion? Well, why not?
Tiddlywinks is a global hobby too. Are you concerned about their intentions? At a Lodge the only things that are specifically forbidden are the topics of religion and politics because they are the only two topics which have consistently caused war and disharmony throughout humanitarian history. Putting myself in the shoes of a non or anti-mason, I'd be more worried about those 2 topics being allowed than not wouldn't you?

[danielson23uk]

In lodge we put aside our differences to unite as friends, and learn I think that diffences of opinion and belief are not nearly as important as character.
That's what I was getting at TGIP, well said. Why must friendship and respect for your fellow man be allowed to be disrupted by religion and politics?

[the guy in pink]

Also wether Freemasonry is about global control or not, then I find it really suspicious that it is all over the world.

It is really not suspicious that people took their clubs with them when they set up homes in new lands.

The history of spread of Freemasonry is a fascinating study in itself.

From The formation of the First Grand lodge in London in 1717 it was followed rapidly by the Formation of grand lodges in Scotland and Ireland and from there it spread to the Colonies and the Continent.

For Example by 1737 the Portuguese Inquisition in Lisbon had put on trial the Catholic Members of an Irish lodge there, (whilst ignoring the Protestant members of the lodge)
The minutes of the inquisition still exist.

However Freemasonry is not universal unfortunately. Repressive undemocratic governments everywhere forbid it. It is notably absent from the Arab world and China.
In Zimbabwe Masons have to obtain a permit to meet from the police before every meeting.

[mike martin]

People give money to Icke, because they like his work, not because they believe it will help the cause, although it is likely to make him continue his research.
I can't agree with that totally! I can see it in the people who just buy his books and DVDs but it's the people who finance his world tours that I think fall into the second category.

From what I have understood that is what Icke says. Although some forum users disagree, it is about spreading knowledge and doing research. That is one of the best ways to fight whatever might be going on, and have more to base their actions on. What food to buy, who to vote for, what to look out for.
This I can agree with although I find his methods a bit shaky. Although when I think about it further, injecting some sexy ETs into possible corruption does inflame the minds of younger people. However, I think it also has the by-product of distracting them away from the meat of the issue toward the gravy so to speak. I suppose at the end of the day, that's the way it has to happen in this 21st Century.

It is also as some say, going from one kind of mindcontrol to another, but it seems to me that most users dont blindly follow Icke, and generally makes an oppinion of their own, or find reasons of their own to believe some of what he says.
Probably.

Also wether Freemasonry is about global control or not, then I find it really suspicious that it is all over the world. I find it hard to believe that the power it would give for masons to work together globally is something masons never do. All the things that masonry is said not to be about, just makes it even more suspicious. At the lodges you do not talk about business, politics and religion? Well, why not?
It's not that suspicious when you look at its history, it was a British thing (and Icke has go this bit right) that spread with the Empire. However, not for the reasons he attributes, British soldiers enjoyed their Masonry and had travelling Lodges, people in the places where they served asked to join, which they did. The thing was when the Army left, those people left behind formed their own Lodges.

Seems to me the perfect way of indoctrination. First make sure your personal beliefs and doings are something you put aside when amongst masons, then when you get higher and higher, the easier it is to influence those beliefs.
We don't put our beliefs aside we just don't discuss them in Lodge. This is purely because a Lodge is supposed to be a "harmonious" setting. Ask yourself what subjects have started most wars and arguments in our history? You should come up with the two subjects that we don't discuss in the Lodge.

Quite simple really.

Of course, if you already have the beliefs they want you to, then no problem. Welcome to the 33rd degree and lets see how you go from there ;)
Been covered elsewhere:D

I have to say that its all just speculation of course :o
Obviously, unless you joined then you would know:eek::rolleyes:

Mike

[mike martin]

However Freemasonry is not universal unfortunately. Repressive undemocratic governments everywhere forbid it. It is notably absent from the Arab world and China.
In Zimbabwe Masons have to obtain a permit to meet from the police before every meeting.

It is fairer to say, the more oppressive Arab/Islamic states. As for example the Grand Lodge of Turkey reopened its doors a couple of years ago.

Also worth noting that the Chinese goverment has not closed down the Lodges in Hong Kong since its return, so things may get better there as well.

Mike

[the guy in pink]

Seems to me the perfect way of indoctrination. First make sure your personal beliefs and doings are something you put aside when amongst masons, then when you get higher and higher, the easier it is to influence those beliefs.

I am a Mason in a lodge under the United Grand lodge of England.
The Preface to our Book of Constitutions (The rule book) says.
Freemasonry consists of three degrees and no more, and includes the Royal Arch.

All other degrees and orders are not Freemasonry but societies, degrees and orders to which Freemasons may belong. Many of these degrees and orders have the requirement that members must be Freemasons.

Therefore the Third Degree, the Master Masons degree , is the Highest degree in Freemasonry. There is no higher and higher in Freemasonry.

[jambolina62]

I am a Mason in a lodge under the United Grand lodge of England.
The Preface to our Book of Constitutions (The rule book) says.
Freemasonry consists of three degrees and no more, and includes the Royal Arch.

All other degrees and orders are not Freemasonry but societies, degrees and orders to which Freemasons may belong. Many of these degrees and orders have the requirement that members must be Freemasons.

Therefore the Third Degree, the Master Masons degree , is the Highest degree in Freemasonry. There is no higher and higher in Freemasonry.

HA HA HA!!!! You poor sods!! Still, you're only following and doing what you're TOLD.

[thelonious]

At the lodges you do not talk about business, politics and religion? Well, why not?

Technically, business and politics are profane items. Freemasonry is considered an initiatory science with self-development as its primary goal. Therefore, business and politics is outof place within it.

Religion, on the other hand, is not profane but sacred. Nevertheless, since Freemasonry is non-sectarian, there are representatives of all different religious faiths within the Lodge. The subject, therefore, is divisive; and while in the Lodge, we want to concentrate on those things that bring us together, not divide us.


Of course, if you already have the beliefs they want you to, then no problem. Welcome to the 33rd degree and lets see how you go from there ;)


I still don't understand some non-Masons' fascination with the 33°. That degree only belongs to one particular Rite of Masonry (the Scottish). Other Masonic Rites do not recognize it.

[icke and ham]

We don't put our beliefs aside we just don't discuss them in Lodge. This is purely because a Lodge is supposed to be a "harmonious" setting.


Mike

Do i belive my eyes? Do you mean you are happy to be in a lodge with people of different religions without fighting?

[icke and ham]

HA HA HA!!!! You poor sods!! Still, you're only following and doing what you're TOLD.

So what if their only doing what their told. if they are told freemasonary consits of only three degrees and no more then thats what they signed up for. These higher 33 things must be something else. Perhaps you only need to do the three first bits?

[danielson23uk]

HA HA HA!!!! You poor sods!! Still, you're only following and doing what you're TOLD.

Good point well made. I'll flog all my regalia immediately. NOT!
Another tourettes like outburst from the antis and everything is clear. I think the problem we face here brethren is that these people believe what they do out of habit or by deliberate choice. No one is prepared to listen to both sides of the story because that would impede their hobby. And as soon as their allegations are met with structured, patent answers, someone with the red nose and over-sized shoes shows up and stirs them all up again with comments like:
HA HA HA!!!! You poor sods!! Still, you're only following and doing what you're TOLD.
Bravo! What a way to change opinions! Maybe you could try the other one:
You can't possibly know what goes on because you're only junior in the system.
Have you got any others with bells on so that we might at least have a nice tune while we're despairing at your boring tripe?

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=325850&postcount=101

[danielson23uk]

Eternal_spirit, is your link relevant or are you just going against the Guidelines of this forum as set out by Sean? I think you're being disruptive so either explain yourself or start a new topic. Thanks.

[eternal_spirit]

Eternal_spirit, is your link relevant or are you just going against the Guidelines of this forum as set out by Sean? I think you're being disruptive so either explain yourself or start a new topic. Thanks.
.................................
It's relevant to Masons.
How can a link to another thread about Masons be breaking the rules?

Explain yourself? There's nothing offensive whatsoever about that post jeez.

:rolleyes:

[eternal_spirit]

I find it strange that none of you Masons have posted on that thread ( Masonic practices and beliefs )

[chrism]

.................................
It's relevant to Masons.
How can a link to another thread about Masons be breaking the rules?

Explain yourself? There's nothing offensive whatsoever about that post jeez.

:rolleyes:
Hi ES - I have read it twice, I cannot see the link to Masons, or why it would be in this thread.

Any chance you could explain what this has to do with me?

Nice story though - may come in handy next time I read the Sandman series!

Cheers.

Chris

[eternal_spirit]

Hi ES - I have read it twice, I cannot see the link to Masons, or why it would be in this thread.

Any chance you could explain what this has to do with me?

Nice story though - may come in handy next time I read the Sandman series!





Cheers.

Chris

........................
Esoteric Unveiled and Revelations in
High Masonic Tradition

[mike martin]

ES,
I don't get it either, you've posted a picture of Michael kicking the shit out of the adversary with some psuedo biblical stuff underneath. I don't get it???

Mike

[mike martin]

I find it strange that none of you Masons have posted on that thread ( Masonic practices and beliefs )

That'll be because I can't be arsed to try and refute the fact that the whole thread is a mishmash of quotes from dozens of books and websites all about different things along with a group of people patting themselves on the back about how clever they are to "understand" without ever having read the whole books or websites.

What would be the point?

Mike

[danielson23uk]

.................................
It's relevant to Masons.
How can a link to another thread about Masons be breaking the rules?

Explain yourself? There's nothing offensive whatsoever about that post jeez.

:rolleyes:
You see ES it's about Freemasons because you've been told it's about Freemasons. I read the whole thing and I have to say it's complete shit. I read it again in case I missed the point. Nope. Still shit.
Maybe the fact that none of us masons have commented on it is because it's completely irrelevant shit. So like I say, explain to me what you're point is or remove it because it could mean anything. It obviously means something to you and you don't like us so I assume it's derogatory. You posted it in a Freemason topic so explain it. Thanks, that's all I'm asking.

[eternal_spirit]

That'll be because I can't be arsed to try and refute the fact that the whole thread is a mishmash of quotes from dozens of books and websites all about different things along with a group of people patting themselves on the back about how clever they are to "understand" without ever having read the whole books or websites.

What would be the point?

Mike

............................

Okay, I haven't actually read much of it myself.

[eternal_spirit]

You see ES it's about Freemasons because you've been told it's about Freemasons. I read the whole thing and I have to say it's complete shit. I read it again in case I missed the point. Nope. Still shit.
Maybe the fact that none of us masons have commented on it is because it's completely irrelevant shit. So like I say, explain to me what you're point is or remove it because it could mean anything. It obviously means something to you and you don't like us so I assume it's derogatory. You posted it in a Freemason topic so explain it. Thanks, that's all I'm asking.

...................

LOl you lot must be low level Masons.

[danielson23uk]

Okay, I haven't actually read much of it myself.

LOl you lot must be low level Masons.
Well which is it ES? Is it because you haven't got the first fucking idea what you're posting because you just admitted you haven't read it or are we the minions who know less about freemasonry than someone who posts things he hasn't even read?

The defense rests your honour!

[eternal_spirit]

Well which is it ES? Is it because you haven't got the first fucking idea what you're posting because you just admitted you haven't read it or are we the minions who know less about freemasonry than someone who posts things he hasn't even read?

The defense rests your honour!
..............................

Wow there MR, I haven't insulted you and you whined on for about 3 posts on this thread alone insulting me and insinuating that I'd insulted you. It was reply to Mike saying I hadn't read much of the other thread.

What's the game it's rather lame:rolleyes::confused:

[danielson23uk]

Wow there MR, I haven't insulted you and you whined on for about 3 posts on this thread alone insulting me and insinuating that I'd insulted you. It was reply to Mike saying I hadn't read much of the other thread.

Where have I insulted you? Where? I asked you explain your post. Can you or not?
What's the game it's rather lame
Is that from Will & Grace?

[meridiansun]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit View Post
What's the game it's rather lame

Where have I insulted you? Where? I asked you explain your post. Can you or not?

Is that from Will & Grace?

Dr Suess :D

[chrism]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit View Post
What's the game it's rather lame



Dr Suess :D

OK - at least we know the intelect we are dealing with!

I thought I would read it again to give ES the benefit of the doubt, and NO - STILL NOTHING MASONIC!

Unless it is about the name 'mason' ending with '-on' - in which case we need an explanation of how the '-er' ending is also evil. The German for freemason is Freimaurer.

Other than that, the argument 'low level masons' has reared it's ugly head again. Since all we do is discuss things inside and outside lodge, raise a lot of money for charity and offer our services for the good of communities, I am still waiting to be told how it would be in the interests of these imagined 'elite' to keep an army in the dark.

I cannot imagine "We are starting a battle against all the good in the world, lets raise an army and not tell them who they are fighting and when." Any army like that is useless!

IF there is an elite, while they may be masons, they are not acting on our behalf, so why are they even being discussed?

Oh - and for the thousandth time, once one becomes a master mason, there is no higher 'rank' within craft freemasonry. There are only three ranks, Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master Mason. The remaining 'degrees' are appendant orders (I.e. other 'clubs' which one can join only if one is already a mason) - NOT freemasonry itself.

It is similar to army social clubs (NAAFI etc). You can only join IF you are a serving soldier, but the club is NOT the army. Are you getting this yet?

Chris

[eternal_spirit]

It's no secret that much is coded/allegoric/exoteric/esoteric and can be interpretated in different ways.

Think of this do you believe the Prime Minister is really the top man?

Think 360 degrees. Is it such a leap of faith and strech of the imagination for you to accept or consider the possibility that there are higher orders/groups that you are not aware of.


All the religious texts are allegories, this is the source of the occult and your craft. Many Masons have written about the connections of Freemasonry to ancient Mystery School religions, Ancient Egypt etc.

Just because you cannot understand the text does not mean it has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

We know there are 3 degrees, ask Thelonious why he's said he has other degrees including 32 degree.

Esoteric Unveiled and Revelations in
High Masonic Tradition

[danielson23uk]

It's no secret that much is coded/allegoric/exoteric/esoteric and can be interpretated in different ways.

Think of this do you believe the Prime Minister is really the top man?

Think 360 degrees. Is it such a leap of faith and strech of the imagination for you to accept or consider the possibility that there are higher orders/groups that you are not aware of.

Just because you cannot understand the text does not mean it has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

We know there are 3 degrees, ask Thelonious why he's said he has other degrees including 32 degree.

Esoteric Unveiled and Revelations in
High Masonic Tradition
In the absence of a real explanation I'll take your attempt at explaining something you don't understand.
I commented before that writing in big bold red font doesn't make you accurate either. It just makes me laugh at your desperation. Thelonious is very fortunate to be a 32 degree mason. I myself am an 18th degree member so you right, there are more degrees in the Antient & Accepted Rite which goes to 33. But craft freemasonry finishes at 3.
Think of this do you believe the Prime Minister is really the top man?
Of course not. Neither is the president of the US. But that doesn't mean that the Freemasons are because I for one want a new roof on my house if we're all "looking after each other"!:D
All the religious texts are allegories, this is the source of the occult and your craft. Many Masons have written about the connections of Freemasonry to ancient Mystery School religions, Ancient Egypt etc.
Are you suggesting they're ALL correct? How many books do you think they'd sell if they didn't include links to all the most mysterious events in history?
Think 360 degrees. Is it such a leap of faith and strech of the imagination for you to accept or consider the possibility that there are higher orders/groups that you are not aware of.
There are no specific degrees above 33, regardless of what you suggest. There are other orders or groups and some may well consider themselves to be higher but in fact they're not. Between myself, Mike, ChrisM and Meridan and thelonious we've probably heard of them all. If you want to ask about then please do, you're fortunate that you're able to speak to several masons who want to talk openly about their hobby. I suggest you grab the opportunity with both hands rather than just post shit you don't understand.

[chrism]

It's no secret that much is coded/allegoric/exoteric/esoteric and can be interpretated in different ways.
What does this say about the symbolism then. Only when they are interpreted by those who know the 'real' meanings are any symbols important.

Think of this do you believe the Prime Minister is really the top man?

I have no idea what you mean in the context of the document you posted, but will try to answer anyway:

The prime minister is the leader of the political party who hold a majority on the government. He is answerable to the government as a whole, and the country too, and in that respect we are all his boss! In real terns, he is only one leader. Each section of the government has its own boss, and laws have to be passed not only by the majority of the house of commons but also the house of lords, so while it could be said that the PM heads the group that write the laws, he does not make them himself. If he did, that would be a dictatorship.

Think 360 degrees. Is it such a leap of faith and strech of the imagination for you to accept or consider the possibility that there are higher orders/groups that you are not aware of.

Think in circles? NO! I try to think rationally and logically, if I go round in circles I try to apply different rationale to the problem.

In terms of higher powers, yes I am happy to believe there are others who know more than I do. They influence my everyday life in numerous ways, from providing electrical power (Nuclear scientists), cure diseases and otherwise influence my life. Some are good, others are bad, and we learn what we can from all of them.

I don't doubt that some have a measure of control over my way of life. Just look at the city planning in Yorkshire - road systems are knackered, and I get frustrated by this.

That does not mean that they control me. I am not a pawn in anyone's grand plan. Unless I swear allegiance to them (I have NOT done so) or agree with the plans that you fear and they are keeping secret, then there is no reason to believe they have any power or influence at all!

All the religious texts are allegories, this is the source of the occult and your craft. Many Masons have written about the connections of Freemasonry to ancient Mystery School religions, Ancient Egypt etc.

They may have done, but I have not. Symbolism is strong within masonry, but if it is to mean anything we need to kow how to interpret it. I do not, and am asking for the key to unravelling this mystery. All I have been told so far is that the symbolism is masonic, and I do not know what it means, so tell me!

BTW - Mike has already answered and as an experienced mason and researcher, I hope you will read and take on board what he has already said.

Just because you cannot understand the text does not mean it has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

Of course - I do not presume to know, but have been asking YOU to tell me what the link is! I am trying to see your point of view - help me!

I would also be interested to know how you are able to access information which is only available to 'senior' masons, when you are not part of the craft yourself!

We know there are 3 degrees, ask Thelonious why he's said he has other degrees including 32 degree.

The 3 degrees are in craft masonry (freemasonry). There are actually up to 30 additional (33 total) 'degrees' available through the appendant orders I mentioned in a previousl post.

IN a similar way, in order to do a PhD, one must he a graduate (Bachelor or Masters of Science or Arts etc). Then theoretically you could study for any number of PhD qualifications. The fact is, in freemasonry the only lodge in which these degrees are relevant is one where we all meet - i.e. craft lodge, and the highest degree there is the third, or Masters. I could be sitting next to a 33degree supremo, and would not know because he would not mention it - he would be wearing a masters apron and his additional degrees would NOT be relevant. I hope this clears things up!

ES - I am here to learn, and am simply being told that I don't understand. Nothing is being explained. I am really open to new ideas, please educate me!

Chris

[icke and ham]

we need an explanation of how the '-er' ending is also evil.

Since all we do is discuss things inside and outside lodge, raise a lot of money for charity


Chris

Can you not 'err'?

I have heard so much about the charity you give but where do you collect it? I have never seen the mason's collecting on the street so do you ask donations like second family ;) Still I would rather give it to your collections than second family as he is only in it for himself and not promising it for charity. :mad:

[chrism]

Can you not 'err'?

I'm sure I do so many times each day!

I have heard so much about the charity you give but where do you collect it? I have never seen the mason's collecting on the street so do you ask donations like second family ;) Still I would rather give it to your collections than second family as he is only in it for himself and not promising it for charity. :mad:

We collect in lodge as a silent collection (a covered plate etc) which goes to the charity steward via the treasurer. It is the charity steward who starts proposals on where the money should go, and when he is seconded we all vote. Usually it is £200 to the local Old Folks Home for a day trip" or "500 to this young boy who has a disease" etc, but we can also vote to send additional monies into grand lodge collections (such as the Tsunami appeal) etc, and cheques can be raised pretty much there and then.

This is why the masons are often the first to respond in times of need - not because they are quicker to collect, but quicker to send!

It is quite often the case that donations come in the form of bequests (left in wills) or other direct donations to the charity account. One of our members only donates once a year - I would not mention his name but having worked with the treasurer I have seen the cheque and it was in four figures. He does this after he gets his yearly accounts done and knows how much he has to spare! The donation, while not anonymous, is between him and the lodge and he is not thanked publicly or privately. He gives what he can afford, and it is gratefully accepted!

We have around 30 people at most of our meetings, and raise approximately £150 - £250 per meeting from these alone. Outside of lodge, we raise around a further £10000 every year from such things as the ladies night, charity car washing, fetes or match day parking at offices near to a football ground (£3 per car - Watford - £2 to the Royal British Legion and £1 to our charity account! - last year Breast Cancer relief & MacMillan, this year Alzheimers research). Over £4000 from the parking came in one year...

We also raise a small amount at 2 collections at every Festive Board (dinner after lodge) with the raffle (usually about £2 each, prize is a bottle of whisky) and also a copper collection (any small coins in your pockets, brethren?!) grabbing around £4 per night. Not much, but it all adds up.

Hope this answers your questions, I&H

Chris

[danielson23uk]

Can you not 'err'?

I have heard so much about the charity you give but where do you collect it? I have never seen the mason's collecting on the street so do you ask donations like second family ;) Still I would rather give it to your collections than second family as he is only in it for himself and not promising it for charity. :mad:
Icke and Ham,
The monies collected comes from a variety of different sources. Most Lodges have at least one charity event a year. Then there is a collection actually in the Lodge during meetings. Other fundraising things like raffles or 'bus-stops' before and after the meeting all help and go towards the kitty. Our Lodge for example might raise on average £100 in collection of what we call 'alms' in the Lodge. Then we might raise £150 in raffles and other stuff after the meeting. Just an average and a modest one at that. Some probably do much better. Others worse. But that's every meeting. Four meetings per year = £1,000. There are 8,253 Lodge under the register of UGLE in England alone. All of that is excluding the other charity events each Lodge might hold every year. Last year we raised £2,700 in one night. We're an average Lodge so lets multiply that by 8,253 as well.

8,253 x £1,000 = 8,253 000
8,253 x £2,700 = 22,283 100

Total = £30,532 100

A VERY rough estimate but all that is just from Lodges. What about the same going on in all the other orders like Holy Royal Arch Chapters, Mark, Royal Ark Mariners, Rose Croix, etc etc (there are loads).
Does that answer your question Icke & Ham?

[icke and ham]

Thats a lot of money daneilson but how much from mason's and how much from collections on the street?

Second family is very fly as he gets dopy people to just send it to him :D

[danielson23uk]

Thats a lot of money daneilson but how much from mason's and how much from collections on the street? :D
I think you answered that one yourself I&H by saying that you don't see Masons collecting 'out on the street'.

[icke and ham]

Quote:
Originally Posted by icke and ham
Can you not 'err'?

I'm sure I do so many times each day!


I bet you do chrism, I was just going off at a tangient. :p

[thelonious]

Thelonious is very fortunate to be a 32 degree mason.

Actually, Brother, here in the USA, all Master Masons in good standing may apply for up to the 32° in the Ancient and Accepted (Scottish) Rite. Therefore, there are a lot more 32° Masons on this side of the pond (around 2 million).

[the guy in pink]

Thats a lot of money daneilson but how much from mason's and how much from collections on the street?

I cannot answer for Daneilson's lodge but with mine the answer is none. The closest we get to collecting money from the public is our annual golf day, when we approach companies to sponsor a hole. But when you look at the companies who sponsor, well surprise , surprise, they are owned by our members!

http://www.zoutnet.co.za/details.asp?StoNum=6109

[chrism]

For my bit, I have never seen a masonic 'Chugger' as I like to call the paid charity muggers you find on the street.

Money is largely raised from inside the organisation and at masonic events, so we don't need to approach the general public.

C

[mike martin]

It's no secret that much is coded/allegoric/exoteric/esoteric and can be interpretated in different ways.
Very good point BUT (there's always a but) each and every system using symbolism applies their own intended meaning for those symbols (just like Freemasonry). The problem with interpretation is that unless you are an Initiate of a particular system you can't accurately interperet the meaning applied by that system, this is what is called esoteric.

It was also my point in highlighting both the swastika and Manley Palmer Hall in other posts. The swastika is interpreted in many different ways depending on your place of birth and Manley Hall interpreted Masonic symbolism incorrectly as he was not a Mason when wrote about it.

Think of this do you believe the Prime Minister is really the top man?
No, he is the "figure head". The "top man" is actually the PM and his Cabinet plus all the other 650 MPs who vote on policy, plus the 550,000 Civil Servants who produce the policies in the first place.

Think 360 degrees. Is it such a leap of faith and strech of the imagination for you to accept or consider the possibility that there are higher orders/groups that you are not aware of.
There have been many more than 360 Masonically linked degrees, many of which are no longer worked anywhere. The problem is not the amount of Degrees but your mistaken belief that they are some kind of linear progression though a Masonic "ranking system"

All the religious texts are allegories, this is the source of the occult and your craft. Many Masons have written about the connections of Freemasonry to ancient Mystery School religions, Ancient Egypt etc.
This was the point that I made in another post about the material you have been given access to.

The vast majority of Masonic authors (that's hundreds of them) have made no such references. The people who are pushing the agenda you follow only tell you about the ones that did, even then they do not account for the "speculation" within those writings or the fact that many of their sources are or were not actually Freemasons when they wrote the books.

There is also the fact that much of the material you are presented with is just a couple of lines taken out of a whole book and totally out of its original context.

Just because you cannot understand the text does not mean it has nothing to do with Freemasonry.
Whch text? I've lost track now.

However it is generally safe to say that if a text does not actually come from Freemasonry (ie a Ritual book) that it is not in any way authorative

We know there are 3 degrees, ask Thelonious why he's said he has other degrees including 32 degree.
Why not ask Thelonius whether holding the 32nd Degree ranks him higher than a Master Mason.

Esoteric Unveiled and Revelations in High Masonic Tradition
What is the source that you got these words from? Then we can see what context they were originally written in.

Mike

[mike martin]

Thats a lot of money daneilson but how much from mason's and how much from collections on the street?

Some of it does come from non-Masons, although it is not the majority. Many Masons actually take part in fund-raising outside the Lodge, for example a lot of Masons ran in the last London Marathon (I personally would like to see theseguys showing off their masonic affiliation). These guys raise their money by sponsorship just like everyone else.

However, the money donated to non-Masonic Charities by the Grand Charity (I think I highlighted this in another topic already) comes direct from our own pockets.

Mike

[geronimo]

Geronimo,
I don't doubt that the world is corrupt. I don't doubt that many individuals within the corruption are masons. But the two are not mutually exclusive. Being a Freemason doesn't make me or any of my peers corrupt. Neither do we blindly amble through life without being objective and considering these allegations. To assume that as mere 'junior' masons we cannot possibly comprehend the skull duggery above us is quite condescending. One of my closest friends is a 33rd degree Mason. A true senior mason in absolutely every sense of the word. He has dedicated his life to helping his fellow man and contributing to his community. He's had many tragedies in his life and beat leukaemia twice. Throughout all of this he has never called the integrity of his fellow humans into doubt.
Is it not easier for you to point your venom at freemasonry with a spurious finger waving at 'they' the 'Illuminati' the 'Bildeberg Group' or some other abstract idea of a faceless entity than it is to actually believe pillars of the community who really do have no other secrets than a few symbols and passwords by which we recognise each other?
You claim that I cannot possibly know what goes on above my head because I'm not senior enough, I respectfully beg to differ.

I stand by my previous statement. I have no doubt that the majority of Freemasons are well-meaning people (and I'm sure you are a good example) who have no idea how secret societies are manipulated and what the agenda at the top really is - given the examples of corruption I have just mentioned, do you not think that a society which operates primarily through secrecy (by the way, why is secrecy so important, perhaps you can explain that to me) would be ideal for the purpose of executing a covert agenda.
Can you tell me why, if freemasonry is so free of any suspect agenda, why blindfold initiates must submit to a ritual in which the point of a dagger is held to their throat? -
in which they are sworn to secrecy on pain of death?
Why is it that the secret name of god, the great architect, is JABULON - actually, Baal, an ancient Canaanite demon, the devil?
Can you tell me why Albert Pike, 33rd degree Freemason, was an avowed satanist and Luciferian who predicted three world wars? Can you still say you are absolutely unaware of this, unaware of the Freemasonic founding fathers who designed into the roads of Washington DC a satanic upside-down pentagram, and an owl, symbolising Moloch, the same deity who requires children as a sacrifice, and is represented in a forty-foot stone statue in Bohemian Grove, California, where world leaders - some, undoubtedly masonic - congregate and participate in mock sacrificial rituals, dressed in robes, carrying flaming torches? Are you unaware of the fact that the height of the Washington DC obelisk, taking into consideration its considerable foundations, just happens to be 666 feet - 666, a satanic number?
Last year I was shown an engraved glass by a friend of mine whos father and grandfather were Freemasons. On it were various symbols, the twin pillars of Joachim and Boab - the twin towers of the World Trade Center come to mind, as these SYMBOLS were shattered publicly - the Sun and moon symbols, other Templar indications - and prominently displayed, a satanic upside-down pentagram as previously mentioned.
These 'symbols' and 'passwords' you mention which just happen to have satanic overtones, that's just a co-incidence, right?
So when I state that yes, there is a covert agenda, and yes, there are degrees above 33, and you might not know about them, you think that's condescending, and beg to differ - that's your perogative. And by the way, I'm not interested in 'pointing my venom' at anyone - I'm simply stating my opinion, take it or leave it.

geronimo

[thelonious]

Can you tell me why, if freemasonry is so free of any suspect agenda, why blindfold initiates must submit to a ritual in which the point of a dagger is held to their throat? -

That does not happen in authentic Masonic ritual.


Why is it that the secret name of god, the great architect, is JABULON - actually, Baal, an ancient Canaanite demon, the devil?

Again, nowhere in Masonry is it ever said that there is a secret name of God, or that God's name is "Jabulon".

Can you tell me why Albert Pike, 33rd degree Freemason, was an avowed satanist and Luciferian who predicted three world wars?

And again, this is not true. Pike never predicted any world war, nor he was a satanist. He was, in fact, an Episcopalian.

Can you still say you are absolutely unaware of this, unaware of the Freemasonic founding fathers who designed into the roads of Washington DC a satanic upside-down pentagram, and an owl, symbolising Moloch,

1. Contrary to what conspiracy theorist websites say, Pierre Le'Enfant, the designer of Washington's streets, was *not* a Mason.

2. The owl never represented the Canaanite deity Moloch. The owl represented the Greek goddess Athena, known among the Romans as Minerva.


These 'symbols' and 'passwords' you mention which just happen to have satanic overtones, that's just a co-incidence, right?

No. They don't have "satanic" overtones, and satanism, IMO, is a childish superstition.

So when I state that yes, there is a covert agenda, and yes, there are degrees above 33, and you might not know about them, you think that's condescending, and beg to differ - that's your perogative.

I've already spoken at length about all the degrees, have posted numerous times that there are over a thousand degrees, which of course has never been secret. I guess I just don't understand you guys. :D

[icke and ham]

Ho-ho-ho Geronimo, you wont get them with cr4p like that. it all sounds ridiculus and they can take it apart.

Even i could do that. Washington is an upside down pentagram? turn the map. it's not upside down now so not satanic lol.

Have you never given a woman a map? there is no right way up:)

[chrism]

Have you never given a woman a map? there is no right way up:)

Easy tiger - no sexist comments please. Me, I'm never rude about women. I see no point. After all, I own one.

Chris

(P.S. - anyone not taking that as a joke will be taken outside, stood against a wall, blindfolded, given a cigarette and then ignored.)

[intruder]

I keep my charity anonymous.

[mike martin]

So when I state that yes, there is a covert agenda, and yes, there are degrees above 33, and you might not know about them, you think that's condescending, and beg to differ - that's your perogative. And by the way, I'm not interested in 'pointing my venom' at anyone - I'm simply stating my opinion, take it or leave it.

Hi geronimo,

I'm not going to get into all the other stuff, it's already been answered and quite frankly it is the same old recycled load of bollox that's been circulating about Masonry for decades.

I think it's great that you have an opinion on Freemasonry and I wouldn't dream of trying to change it. All I would want is for you to be sure that it is actually as water-tight as you think before you sort of shove it in people's faces.

The logic test for your opinion would be to seriously ask yourself this question. I mean think about it not just ignore it!

How is it that the people who have given you your opinion managed to find out this information about Freemasonry when actual real Freemasons can't?

You see there is an incredible twist of logic when you (and the others) say that "lower degree" Masons can not get access to the claimed information when you've actually been fed it by a non-Mason! Do you see what I'm saying? If we "low" degree (and I can assure we're not low degree) Masons can't know about it, how can whoever told you possibly know?

It is also worth pointing out that this particular cop-out was was only added to the stories when the Internet came about and the conspiracists realised that their audience now included real Masons who were able to answer all the points easily.

You see nearly all of the claims find their basis in books that are commonly available to the general public, the bits that aren't are just extrapolations of the same material, usually taken to silly lengths, with bits from unrelated places and times tacked on for good measure.

When you read these stories on this site (and others) just how much of it actually comes from the Masonic source, that being our Ritual. In the TFM topic I even supplied links to our Ritual for people who wanted to learn the truth, I was suprised that no one bothered to read them to see for themselves preferring the conspiracy.

Mike

[chrism]

I keep my charity anonymous.

Good on you!

Where charity is given for personal gain, it is hardly selfless. On an impersonal level, though, I think we should know where the charity money goes, otherwise we cannot trace the donations we make, and avoid fraud!

Chris

[danielson23uk]

I keep my charity anonymous.

Very commendable. But as Chris says sooner or later our charitable donations have to be made public otherwise conspiracy theorist would accuse us of funding all sorts of different outrageous causes. I haven't told you how much I donate or whom I donate to. That's not important to me. What is important is that I and other like minded people are actively getting together, rasing enormous amounts for charity and having fun doing it.

[jambolina62]

I heed the warning. Have no fear.

[chrism]

I heed the warning. Have no fear.

In the words of Manuel:

Que?

[geeve420]

Easy tiger - no sexist comments please. Me, I'm never rude about women. I see no point. After all, I own one.

Chris

(P.S. - anyone not taking that as a joke will be taken outside, stood against a wall, blindfolded, given a cigarette and then ignored.)


LMAO!! You don't win many arguments at home eh Chris?!:D

Thanks

Geeve

[lizzy]

Very commendable. But as Chris says sooner or later our charitable donations have to be made public otherwise conspiracy theorist would accuse us of funding all sorts of different outrageous causes. I haven't told you how much I donate or whom I donate to. That's not important to me. What is important is that I and other like minded people are actively getting together, rasing enormous amounts for charity and having fun doing it.

LOL. Will have to disclose soon.:eek:
So glad your having fun.:D

[chrism]

LMAO!! You don't win many arguments at home eh Chris?!:D

Thanks

Geeve

Too bloody true. :(

Luckily she gets my sense of humour (or lack of it anyway

C

[geeve420]

Very commendable. But as Chris says sooner or later our charitable donations have to be made public otherwise conspiracy theorist would accuse us of funding all sorts of different outrageous causes. I haven't told you how much I donate or whom I donate to. That's not important to me. What is important is that I and other like minded people are actively getting together, rasing enormous amounts for charity and having fun doing it.


I agree, our Lodge dicloses charity contributions twice a year. You can go to the county clerk office and pull the records. They are also published in our annual reports from the Grand Lodge of Oklahoma. They are not private info. For that matter any orginization can contact us to help raise money, whether it be a school for new books or computers, a senior center for a new floor, or like what was mentioned before a golf tournament. I also agree that we have a great time raising the money.

Thanks

Geeve

[chrism]

I also agree that we have a great time raising the money.

If we did not enjoy it, why would we do it?!

Chris

[geeve420]

If we did not enjoy it, why would we do it?!

Chris


Good point Chris! I look forward to doing them, even if it's slopping baked beans:D

Thanks

Geeve

[the duke]

Protect your children today, warn them about the Secret Societies now, before it's too late. The Masons badly want to mind-control as many kids as possible to protect their power and control. Freemasonry is a dangerous criminal cult, network, organisation.

They will tell your kids it's all good when in fact it is the opposite. Your kids will become Masonic drones/slaves and they in turn will destroy your whole family and society with it. How can one person talk to another, knowing this evil is out there ?

People don't realise that Freemasonry is also Mormons, Opus Dei, Jehovah's Witnesses, Common Purpose, Round Table, Speculative Society, Knights of St. Columba, Rotarians, Shriners, Co-Masons, Eastern Star (female masons), etc.

Do not listen to one word from a Mason's mouth. They can only repeat or defend their brainwash, they are told nothing else. They are also sworn to protect each other. They have been dehumanised and will only listen to their twisted Masonic Controllers.

The Freekmasons use hundreds of different names worldwide to confuse and deceive. We have challenged them all over the Net (13 months ago) to come and talk to their victims in front of a live, filmed audience and they have refused, because it's all true.

Checkout www.secondfamily-uk.com www.ljpr.info www.henrymakow.com www.rense.com www.ivanfraser.com
Far too many to list here, just follow the links and read the truth for yourselves. Your future depends on this knowledge.

Our advice to all members of this criminal organisation is to leave today, modern technology will expose and incriminate "YOU".

Contact your local politician or media, this has to be banned immediately. Please forward this to everyone you care about. ASAP

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha......ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...ha ha ha ha...ha!!! This is literally the funniest thing I have ever read in my whole life!!! This has to be a joke!?! Can anyone confirm to me whether this post is serious or a joke? Yes it's true, Me, and Jimmy and old Bob from down the Lodge in town want to wash your Children's brains and eat them for breakfast, or whatever it was he said. (For the Americans amongst you, this is irony!) What the bloody hell do you think the Freemasons are like? Some people will believe any old shit they read or are told!!!

[the duke]

You all think Secondfamily is lying etc.

What do you think he/she would have to gain by this?

Because he has nothing better to do with his paranoid little life!?!

Just throwing that out there!

[marpat]

Protect your children today, warn them about the Secret Societies now, before it's too late. The Masons badly want to mind-control as many kids as possible to protect their power and control. Freemasonry is a dangerous criminal cult, network, organisation.

They will tell your kids it's all good when in fact it is the opposite. Your kids will become Masonic drones/slaves and they in turn will destroy your whole family and society with it. How can one person talk to another, knowing this evil is out there ?

People don't realise that Freemasonry is also Mormons, Opus Dei, Jehovah's Witnesses, Common Purpose, Round Table, Speculative Society, Knights of St. Columba, Rotarians, Shriners, Co-Masons, Eastern Star (female masons), etc.

Do not listen to one word from a Mason's mouth. They can only repeat or defend their brainwash, they are told nothing else. They are also sworn to protect each other. They have been dehumanised and will only listen to their twisted Masonic Controllers.

The Freekmasons use hundreds of different names worldwide to confuse and deceive. We have challenged them all over the Net (13 months ago) to come and talk to their victims in front of a live, filmed audience and they have refused, because it's all true.

Checkout www.secondfamily-uk.com www.ljpr.info www.henrymakow.com www.rense.com www.ivanfraser.com
Far too many to list here, just follow the links and read the truth for yourselves. Your future depends on this knowledge.

Our advice to all members of this criminal organisation is to leave today, modern technology will expose and incriminate "YOU".

Contact your local politician or media, this has to be banned immediately. Please forward this to everyone you care about. ASAP

Wow what a great piece of fear inspired anti-mason propoganda. Why doesn't everybody do what you say and we will all be happy, not. You speak of them trying to control minds but you are doing trying to scare people into your way of thinking, essentially trying to mind control people into your beliefs.

Perhaps you should drop the scary act and let people decide for themselves rather than telling them what to do, you robot. Perhaps you don't like the idea of people making their own minds up in case they go against you. Who are you to say what should be banned? it is people like you who are happy to stamp out peoples freedom of expression if it does not meet your own.

Don't you think you are a twisted controller by trying to bend the minds of people to submit to your fear and darkness?

[joegum]

I wonder if at least some of the folks who are reporting of being harassed by Freemasonry might, in fact, be the victims of bogus lodges. (Maybe a bunch of 'good ole boys' having 'fun'?) Has this ever been looked into?

[ban freekmasons]

Well said joegum. Yes, I/we totally agree.

[chrism]

Well said joegum. Yes, I/we totally agree.

Come on Joe - you are agreeing that these acts were done by people pretending to be masons, not actual Freemasons then? IN that case, why the hell have you been persecuting masons on this and other sites for years.

I must say, I would agree with the poster that it is possible there are some 'gangs' who pretend to be masons, but in this case stand by my original opinion that Joe is a paranoid schizophrenic with delusions of importance (or even adequacy).

At least his reasoning skills remain up to the usual high standard.

C

[marpat]

Well said joegum. Yes, I/we totally agree.


What is this, multiple personality? our name is legion for we are many

[joegum]

I must say, I would agree with the poster that it is possible there are some 'gangs' who pretend to be masons...
C

I was actually thinking of sites similar to this one when I posted:

http://www.phylaxis.org/bogusmasonry/
http://users.erols.com/solequis/secret_societies/phoneymasonry.htm

Maybe there are pseudo-Masons with all the outward appearances of being actual Masons... the meetings, regalia, etc... not just street gangs using Masonic symbols to cover their tracks. They could be closer to actual cults, demonstrating "this is what will happen to you if you cross us." Maybe bogus lodges that have gone off the rails? Maybe thinking, "This is how real Masons act."?

(BTW, Since this is happening in Scotland, obviously I'm not referring to Prince Hall Masonry.)