Why do we have a thread about religion anyway?

[quest]

Why do we bother to have a thread about religion? It just seems to encourage people to cut and paste acres of pointless details from stupid publications about krishna, the bible etc and it wastes expensive webspace.

It seems especially absurd when one considers the evidence that Icke and others go to great trouble to produce that exposes religions as simply corrupt institutions that are components of a wider control system and fabrications of people's egoistic imaginations (especially in the case of manufactured icons like jesus).

Surely we should have got to the stage by now where we have no need to give energy to religions of any kind? Who actually cares what piece of fiction was written first about jesus, krishna or any of the other invented 'dashboard saints'? It's all useless rubbish that does nothing to help us in the present day.

Surely we should have moved on by now from the need for such pathetic crutches as the myriads of mind-numbing 'holy' books, priests, gurus that are available or mind-numbing (sic) chants like sodding 'hare krishna'!

[dedicate]

Maybe, because there is more to it (religion) than you know.

And it's not 'a thread' about religion. It's a section for threads on religion.

[octopusrex]

Why do we bother to have a thread about religion? It just seems to encourage people to cut and paste acres of pointless details from stupid publications about krishna, the bible etc and it wastes expensive webspace.

It seems especially absurd when one considers the evidence that Icke and others go to great trouble to produce that exposes religions as simply corrupt institutions that are components of a wider control system and fabrications of people's egoistic imaginations (especially in the case of manufactured icons like jesus).

Surely we should have got to the stage by now where we have no need to give energy to religions of any kind? Who actually cares what piece of fiction was written first about jesus, krishna or any of the other invented 'dashboard saints'? It's all useless rubbish that does nothing to help us in the present day.

Surely we should have moved on by now from the need for such pathetic crutches as the myriads of mind-numbing 'holy' books, priests, gurus that are available or mind-numbing (sic) chants like sodding 'hare krishna'!

Because if you are a newsman accusing religions of "conspiring" against the freedom inherent in human existance, you better let those defenders of their faiths give you counter-arguments.

[madthumbs]

Religion is the ultimate form of mind control. You can't hypnotize people into killing, or mutilating their baby's genitals, but you can get them to with religion.

[LasseMaja]

Organized religion, my friends, is the bad stuff.

Religion means union and it's necessary for the freedom we want.


Religion might be people dancing, singing, praying, laughing, and setting their intentions together performing magic. Working toward the divine world we want to see.

Infinite love = God = Tao = whatever you wanna call it!

[blue]

Infinite love = God = Tao = whatever you wanna call it!

thats the problem, you name infinite love as god and you end up doing the crappiest thing in the name of god.

[blue]

Why do we bother to have a thread about religion? It just seems to encourage people to cut and paste acres of pointless details from stupid publications about krishna, the bible etc and it wastes expensive webspace.

It seems especially absurd when one considers the evidence that Icke and others go to great trouble to produce that exposes religions as simply corrupt institutions that are components of a wider control system and fabrications of people's egoistic imaginations (especially in the case of manufactured icons like jesus).

Surely we should have got to the stage by now where we have no need to give energy to religions of any kind? Who actually cares what piece of fiction was written first about jesus, krishna or any of the other invented 'dashboard saints'? It's all useless rubbish that does nothing to help us in the present day.

Surely we should have moved on by now from the need for such pathetic crutches as the myriads of mind-numbing 'holy' books, priests, gurus that are available or mind-numbing (sic) chants like sodding 'hare krishna'!

so that we can expose it and show why it was made in the first place.

[kasalt]

Religion is an integral part of the conspiracy, and the religion sub-forum was put here for us to expose religion as such.

[dedicate]

Science is an intragal part of the conspiracy, but no one is saying that we should do away with science. Education has been used to manipulate mankind, but no one would recommend that we do away with education. Art in all it's forms can be used in negative or positive ways (and is) but we wouldn't recomend removing Art from our lives. So, these arguments against religion don't hold water.

Now.. if you want to say something like: This world is a cosmic accident and that is how I see it. Or,, as I see it, I live, I die, and that is the end of it. Then I can understand your idea that religion is a stupid waste of time. But if you feel you do not "just die" or life is not "just a cosmic accident".. then that is my religion starting point with most people.

[madthumbs]

Religion is an integral part of the conspiracy, and the religion sub-forum was put here for us to expose religion as such.

That's what I'd think if it didn't have this sub-forum also: "Satanism / Child abuse"

Perhaps it's better at reaching out to people than my blunt honesty is?

[kasalt]

That's what I'd think if it didn't have this sub-forum also: "Satanism / Child abuse"

Perhaps it's better at reaching out to people than my blunt honesty is?

What do you mean?

[peachped]

That's what I'd think if it didn't have this sub-forum also: "Satanism / Child abuse"

Perhaps it's better at reaching out to people than my blunt honesty is?

"Religion / child abuse".

[gold]

If all our ancestors hadn't been such arse holes to have taken it all in in the first place, there would none of this farce face religion today or no farce faced wars;

[dedicate]

If you don't have religion, then you are lost.

If you tell me you are not lost, but you are lost, then you are twice lost. And it just gets worse from there.

You've been warned.

[octopusrex]

Lots of false prophets to go around, kids.

[madthumbs]

If you don't have religion, then you are lost.

If you tell me you are not lost, but you are lost, then you are twice lost. And it just gets worse from there.

You've been warned.


37,000+ denominations = 37,000+ lost whether a single one is right or not, and that's just Christianity.

[gold]

Lots of false prophets to go around, kids.

To right, and it seems that Catholic Cardinals & Bishops are the worst culprits.
Over the past 50 years 1,500 bishops and priests have been identified by the sexual abuse of thousands of kids who were meant to be in there care.
God Knows how many before that. Look at the finds in Jersey, and they keep getting away with it.:mad:

[LasseMaja]

I say: Create your own religion. Don't follow a book. Try get your own experiences (I have)...

Well, here is a book by the way (Start your own religion by Timothy Leary)...
http://leary.ru/download/leary/Timothy%20Leary%20-%20Start%20Your%20Own%20Religion.pdf

[dedicate]

If you notice, madthumbs , and you should have because you are intelligent,, I haven't mentioned 'christianity' once in this thread. Nor church, Nor heaven, nor Bible. But you bring it up in ralation to my posts. Makes me think that you are stuck on that for some reason.?

I did say, 'without religion you are lost'. That's all I said. You should be able to see that.

Also, Lessa Maja says, "I say start your own religion.. Don't follow a book".. then says.. "heres a book to follow" and "here is someone to tell you how to start your own religion".

[brio313]

Greetings people of free will.

Religion without philosophy is sentiment, or sometimes fanaticism, while philosophy without religion is mental speculation. -Prabhupada-

Ignorance leads to no knowledge......

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by madthumbs http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=322853#post322853)
That's what I'd think if it didn't have this sub-forum also: "Satanism / Child abuse"

Perhaps it's better at reaching out to people than my blunt honesty is?

Quote: kasalt

What do you mean?

..........................

Yeah what does he mean :confused:

[eternal_spirit]

If you notice, madthumbs , and you should have because you are intelligent,, I haven't mentioned 'christianity' once in this thread. Nor church, Nor heaven, nor Bible. But you bring it up in ralation to my posts. Makes me think that you are stuck on that for some reason.?

I did say, 'without religion you are lost'. That's all I said. You should be able to see that.

Also, Lessa Maja says, "I say start your own religion.. Don't follow a book".. then says.. "heres a book to follow" and "here is someone to tell you how to start your own religion".
............................

Yes he keeps saying that Christians circumcise in the name of relgion I have too keep reminding him it's Judaism and other religions that do that.

And LOL about the book. Timothy Leary was a paid agent of CIA.

[dedicate]

I know. People don't seem to get it. People will post, "Religion is sh#t because it is used against the people!".. Then you tell them, not always though and that's not a good arguement because many things that are of value are used against us. Instead of investigating, or adresssing the arguement -- in the very same thread or some other, the same poster will say, "Religion has been shown to be a manipulators tool!"

Funny, because people seem to be able to differentiate between good science and bad science.. Art they like and art they find distasteful.. even positive music and negative music,, but when it comes to religion they have a serious block. Curious.

[kasalt]

If you don't have religion, then you are lost.

If you tell me you are not lost, but you are lost, then you are twice lost. And it just gets worse from there.

You've been warned.

Hi there, fellow premiere subscriber. If that's what you think, then I'm sure you will enjoy this week's newsletter from David Icke. Perhaps we can start a discussion about it in the newsletter sub-forum when it comes out on Sunday.

[dedicate]

I'd like that, very much.-- to here what Icke has to say on this subject.

Sometimes we use different words to describe the same thing. The experience Icke had at a Puruvian "burial" ground, is what I might call a religious awakening.. he calls it a spirtual awakening.-- "For three months I didn't know what planet I was on".

But religion to the more matter of fact, is applying spiritual principles to your everday life, in sort-of a determined way. Now, there have been great teachers that have shown us the best way to do this.. Buddha and Jesus to name two. You can do as they say, or you can do otherwise. The choice is yours. And there is no hard rule that you must follow these teachings. You may find some other teaching that fits you better. But a teaching is pretty much needed by the majority of people.

Even Carlos Castanada had Don Juan. And Dan Milman had Socrates. Krishna had his teacher (though he didn't need one, he showed by example the correct behavior). And Jesus paid homage to John the Baptist.

But not always is a teacher or teaching needed. Not every time. Just most every time. (my opinion.. you might want to ask a real authority about that).

[synergy777]

free thought and speech, quite simple really.

[madthumbs]

free thought and speech, quite simple really.

You'd defend the witness's who testified against Jesus for their right to free speech even though it led him to his death?

[psychicdefender]

You'd defend the witness's who testified against Jesus for their right to free speech even though it led him to his death?

I can't speak for synergy, but for me and in my understanding, this is exactly why Jesus went to his death willingly, because every single human being has a right to do as they will and God can work with what we do (even if we reject God) and make something good come from it. Whether or not we choose to allow God to 'help' us do the right thing in the first (or second etc) place is entirely up to us...

[octopusrex]

free thought and speech, quite simple really.

Careful with that.. Many religions would squash "free thought" if they could.

[element]

There is not really a organised manipulation in religions..

religions take esotoric knowledge too literally while most things are symbolic, that's it.

[LasseMaja]

I haven't read the Timothy Leary book, so I don't know. I just like the title.
But I do agree with his point of view on psychedelics. Leary a CIA agent? Tell me more please.

When you are truly free (in bliss that is), you won't be reading on this forum anymore.


For me religion is all about "love". There is also another aspect of religion that has been taken away from us and that is the power of will. Call it magic.

We need both. If we only use magic we might tend to use it in the wrong way.
If you follow the path of love, nothing can go wrong. Ever.

So, for me, the first step is to recognize love (like taking ayahuasca, acid, mushrooms)... When you've got the message, quit.
Then performing magic (I haven't reach to this step yet, just tasted a little bit) But as far as I've noticed, magic really works. (Just look at what the Illuminati have achieved with magic without love)

[madthumbs]

I can't speak for synergy, but for me and in my understanding, this is exactly why Jesus went to his death willingly, because every single human being has a right to do as they will and God can work with what we do (even if we reject God) and make something good come from it. Whether or not we choose to allow God to 'help' us do the right thing in the first (or second etc) place is entirely up to us...

So he takes good things and makes something bad from them.

[quest]

Some interesting answers, so far, and not a cut and paste job re krishna or jesus etc in sight, phew!

Like kasalt, I think tomorrow's Icke newsletter should encourage a really interesting discussion because it looks like it will show how new age spirituality simply mirrors the bollocks promulgated by the 'regular' religions. It will be interesting to see if it will cover similar territory to that which Steve Gamble has been working on since the late 90s in his Shopping for Spirit articles, currently up to number 9, I think http://www.equilibra.uk.com/articles.shtml

[psychicdefender]

So he takes good things and makes something bad from them.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

My opinion is that God takes bad things and makes good come from it. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

Not sure how you came to your conclusion from what I have written, would you be kind enough to clarify whether you are just stating your opinon or have come to this conclusion based on what I wrote.

Many thanks and kind regards,

Psychicdefender.

[pilgrim]

Why do we bother to have a thread about religion? It just seems to encourage people to cut and paste acres of pointless details from stupid publications about krishna, the bible etc and it wastes expensive webspace.

It seems especially absurd when one considers the evidence that Icke and others go to great trouble to produce that exposes religions as simply corrupt institutions that are components of a wider control system and fabrications of people's egoistic imaginations..

Surely we should have got to the stage by now where we have no need to give energy to religions of any kind? Who actually cares what piece of fiction was written first about jesus, krishna or any of the other invented 'dashboard saints'? It's all useless rubbish that does nothing to help us in the present day.

Surely we should have moved on by now from the need for such pathetic crutches as the myriads of mind-numbing 'holy' books, priests, gurus that are available or mind-numbing (sic) chants like sodding 'hare krishna'!
Neither David Icke or anyone on these forum has ever produced any evidence that exposes Krishna Consciousness, as presented by Srila Prabhupada, to be part of the Illuminati "control-system", sun-worship, Hinduism, New-Age, evil, etc, though these accusations have been made many times.
Krishna consciousness simply means our original pure, unconditioned consciousness.
How can you dismiss something before you have even bothered to do your own research to find out what it actually is?
Are you happy to remain brainwashed, clinging onto your uninformed assumptions & pre-conceived "beliefs"?
I guess so. :rolleyes:
It seems to me that you want to "kill" the messages on the Religion threads, because you cannot defeat them with sensible arguments.
I think the majority of people here would consider themselves "Truth-Seekers" & "Free-Thinkers".
Why would they agree with your Nazi style censorship of the Religion threads?

What is Krishna Consciousness?:
READ: http://causelessmercy.com/
LISTEN: http://www.prabhupadavani.org/

[dedicate]

I just finished reading this week's DI's newsletter. I gave it a quick once over read, and another for certain details. The conclusion is that David Icke is lost as per the definition above.. "If you don't have religion, you are lost".

But that's OK. There is lost in the middle of the ocean (really really lost), and there is lost in a shopping mall (come around to your senses and you'll be OK, lost). I think David Icke is more closer to the latter.

Icke doesn't have much good to say about religion here as I can see. It seems that he denies any reference to it's reality... like that it is ALL a fabrication made up to manipulate and gain control. That's what I think he is saying, and he doesn't really say much else in a full page of writting.

But I wonder how he comes to the conclusion that the Vedas were written by Reptile lineage to honor Reptile gods? I mean, the Upanishads, give us one God.. called the Absolute, Infinite, Unknowable. Shiva and Kali are "Reptilian Gods"? I guess I'll have to see my doctor and local scientist about that. Anyway, that's just some of my initial responses. And I think he's not seeing the REALITY? (But if Icke doesn't see it, then maybe its' not as easy to see as I thought!)

But that's not to take away from his very important contributions to waking us up to the NWO agenda (which by the way, I feel he is amazingly correct about -- was way ahead of his time even 6 years ago on that) The world owes him for that, and I believe he has made some good Karma for himself to boot, irregardless of what he thinks of Jesus being real or not. Cheers.

[pilgrim]

I just finished reading this week's DI's newsletter...
...But I wonder how he comes to the conclusion that the Vedas were written by Reptile lineage to honor Reptile gods?
I mean, the Upanishads, give us one God.. called the Absolute, Infinite, Unknowable...
"The Vedas written by Reptilians"! Does he really say that?
It sounds like he's getting very desperate to keep people away from researching real spiritual knowledge. I wonder why?
Maybe he's worried that people will realize that his Impersonalist "Infinite Consciousness" ideas have been talked about in the Vedas for 1,000s of years.
Anyway, making such ridiculous accusations can only harm his credibility.
Could you post what he said about the Vedas?

[kasalt]

"The Vedas written by Reptilians"! Does he really say that?
It sounds like he's getting very desperate to keep people away from researching real spiritual knowledge. I wonder why?
Maybe he's worried that people will realize that his Impersonalist "Infinite Consciousness" ideas have been talked about in the Vedas for 1,000s of years.
Anyway, making such ridiculous accusations can only harm his credibility.
Could you post what he said about the Vedas?

The newsletter is not about the Vedas per se, but rather it focuses on the new age movement. I can't quote directly, but he does say in one part of the newsletter that the Vedic gods were symbolic of the reptilians and other beings. He also goes on to say that there is some valid knowledge in Eastern religions regarding consciousness as well as illusion masquerading as reality, but that if people aren't careful, they risk being sucked in by other aspects which are negative.

I think the more interesting part will come next week (this is a 2-part newsletter). He will deal more with the topic of chanting mantras then.

[madthumbs]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

My opinion is that God takes bad things and makes good come from it. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

Not sure how you came to your conclusion from what I have written, would you be kind enough to clarify whether you are just stating your opinon or have come to this conclusion based on what I wrote.

Many thanks and kind regards,

Psychicdefender.

Foreskin is a good thing. It's natural, self cleaning, protective, reduces friction during sex (healthier for women). There are many deformities caused by it such as hair growing up the shaft because the skin is pulled up it to make up for what's missing during erection. Some penises grow curved because the skin is tighter on one side than the other. (these are just a couple)

Herbs for healing are a good thing, but the Christian / Judaic God would have us kill people who use them.

Homosexuals don't contribute to over population, but the Christian / Judaic God would have us kill them.

The abolition of Sex Slavery is a good thing, but the Christian / Judaic God supports sex slavery, and has no "age of consent" or protection for minors.

The point I was making with my response is that you can see the glass as half empty or half full, but it's still the same half something glass either way. You're using your opinion in an attempt to manipulate other people's perception.

[optimus pigpot]

Foreskin is a good thing. It's natural, self cleaning, protective, reduces friction during sex (healthier for women). There are many deformities caused by it such as hair growing up the shaft because the skin is pulled up it to make up for what's missing during erection. Some penises grow curved because the skin is tighter on one side than the other. (these are just a couple)

Herbs for healing are a good thing, but the Christian / Judaic God would have us kill people who use them.

Homosexuals don't contribute to over population, but the Christian / Judaic God would have us kill them.

The abolition of Sex Slavery is a good thing, but the Christian / Judaic God supports sex slavery, and has no "age of consent" or protection for minors.

The point I was making with my response is that you can see the glass as half empty or half full, but it's still the same half something glass either way. You're using your opinion in an attempt to manipulate other people's perception.

KEEP ON SHOWING THESE LOSERS HOW INSANE THEY ARE...... OOOOOHHHHHH I'M SO NEEDY, I NEED THE LORD, AAAAAGGGHH FUCK THE LORD!!!!

BOLLOCKS TO JESUS, AND ALL RELIGIONS INCLUDING AETHEISM!!!!!!!!

IT'S ALL DELUDED SHIT!!!!!!

[dedicate]

Don't apologize for him, kesalt. Saying, 'There are many genuine people in the New Age movement', and what you gleened, does not make much for a defence of religion i.e.Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity or "New Age". Giving the Caviat about being sucked into something negative means nothing and gives no sense of credibility to religion, because that is true in all circumstances.

Saying that religion is used to control, is one thing, but saying there is not much to any religion is another. And he is saying it.

I suppose quoting from the newsletter is not in sinc with the agreements of receiving the newsletter.. But I will to some extent break that rule, just to make a few points to the above poster who asks.

He says: "The gods of Hinduism are symbolic of the ancient Reptilian gods that founded the beliefs of Hinduism"-- Hinduism is founded on the Vedas, so he is saying.. what? I think he is saying the Vedas were written by Reptiles here.

He also says, " I have proposed in my books, .... 'Jesus' is a deity of a manufactured Reptilian religion - the same with Yahweh/Jehovah, Allah and the 'gods' of the Hindu beliefs based on the Vedic texts." He goes on to say that most all of relgion has been "created" to allow these reptilians control over the believers. -- That would include the Vasnavas, modern followers of the Vedas; And Krishna as a Reptile god.

There are many other connections he makes that I'm in total disagreement with about the roots and origins of religion/ I think I'm going to have to defer to my commitment and take these critisisms up on the SubForum, if at all. I can't say much more about it, -- unless I'm given permission to do so. I've already gone out on a limb on this, but that is part of how I practice my religion.. by going out further than most would, taking chances.

Post Script... like the poster above points out, he is discouraging investigation, knowingly or unknowingly. This is a serious danger mark for Icke if he does not come around soon, if he does not come to his senses,,, For example, IN his next life, I believe, David might want to seek true enlightenment at the feet of a teacher. But due to his promulgating of false and misleading statements in this matter, his enlightenment will be delayed. And example is Buddha Gottama who had to live 8 years as an ascetic due to one false statement he made about a monk. It's very bad Karma to make statements that counter God's work.
"nuff said".

[psychicdefender]

You're using your opinion in an attempt to manipulate other people's perception.

So are you. My opinion is my opinion. Your opinion is your opinion. You seem to have trouble grasping this concept with regards to yourself.

And as you still haven't answered the questions I posed to you on three separate occasions a couple of weeks ago I shall repeat,

When did Jesus ever say his followers had to be circumcised, had to be 'straight' and when did he condone sex slavery?

The answer is never, now please stop misrepresenting Jesus' teachings, the quotes you have made in the past I have shown to be unsupportive of your point of view. I am sorry if you have past hurts that haven't been 'healed', I cannot account for the mindsets of people who do endorse such behaviour, they have their own free will.

Psychicdefender.

[madthumbs]

So are you. My opinion is my opinion. Your opinion is your opinion. You seem to have trouble grasping this concept with regards to yourself.

When I quote from The Bible, passages condoning rape, sex slavery, genocide, infant genital mutilation, female oppression, witch killing, homosexual killing, etc, that is fact: not opinion.

When did Jesus ever say his followers had to be circumcised, had to be 'straight' and when did he condone sex slavery?

Answered again: Matthew 5:17

The answer is never, now please stop misrepresenting Jesus' teachings, the quotes you have made in the past I have shown to be unsupportive of your point of view.

Opinion

I am sorry if you have past hurts that haven't been 'healed',

If you were serious about being sorry, you wouldn't be going around defending the sick religion that causes these hurts on the world.

[quest]

Pilgrim:

How interesting that such a highly spiritual person as yourself can turn so nasty and make such unpleasant and innacurate assumptions as soon as your fragile ego starts to feel threatened. I wondered when you would find it impossible not to respond!

[pilgrim]

Pilgrim:
How interesting that such a highly spiritual person as yourself can turn so nasty and make such unpleasant and innacurate assumptions as soon as your fragile ego starts to feel threatened. I wondered when you would find it impossible not to respond!
Talk about "the pot calling the kettle black."
Please stick to the point:
Where is the EVIDENCE for your ridiculous accusations against Krishna Consciousness? :rolleyes:
I'm still waiting! You cannot answer can you???
Just like: ichi wa zen, cataleptik, razed1, amar7, etc. who all made stupid accusations but could not provide ANY EVIDENCE, so decided to run away from the debate.
So, either provide EVIDENCE, or keep your ignorance to yourself!

[psychicdefender]

If you were serious about being sorry, you wouldn't be going around defending the sick religion that causes these hurts on the world.

I have been defending against your false perception of this particular religion, I am sorry that you have past hurt, I am not the one to have inflicted this suffering upon you, so I won't be patronising and apologise, just to express my sorrow that you have been the victim of ignorance.

As for defending this sick religion that cause these hurts, I will not allow them (and you by your continuing propaganda) to portray a false image of the teachings of Jesus, I am defending the teaching of Christ, not the doctrines and dogma of various churches. I am currently on MSN talking to a friend who is staying with palestinians in a refugee camp near Nablus and have been talking about the whole issue, so kindly consider that maybe you are talking to someone who is well aware of the hurt caused by these deceits.

Psychicdefender.

[pilgrim]

Don't apologize for him, kesalt. Saying, 'There are many genuine people in the New Age movement', and what you gleened, does not make much for a defence of religion i.e.Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity or "New Age". Giving the Caviat about being sucked into something negative means nothing and gives no sense of credibility to religion, because that is true in all circumstances.

Saying that religion is used to control, is one thing, but saying there is not much to any religion is another. And he is saying it.

I suppose quoting from the newsletter is not in sinc with the agreements of receiving the newsletter.. But I will to some extent break that rule, just to make a few points to the above poster who asks.

He says: "The gods of Hinduism are symbolic of the ancient Reptilian gods that founded the beliefs of Hinduism"-- Hinduism is founded on the Vedas, so he is saying.. what? I think he is saying the Vedas were written by Reptiles here.

He also says, " I have proposed in my books, .... 'Jesus' is a deity of a manufactured Reptilian religion - the same with Yahweh/Jehovah, Allah and the 'gods' of the Hindu beliefs based on the Vedic texts." He goes on to say that most all of relgion has been "created" to allow these reptilians control over the believers. -- That would include the Vasnavas, modern followers of the Vedas; And Krishna as a Reptile god.

There are many other connections he makes that I'm in total disagreement with about the roots and origins of religion/ I think I'm going to have to defer to my commitment and take these critisisms up on the SubForum, if at all. I can't say much more about it, -- unless I'm given permission to do so. I've already gone out on a limb on this, but that is part of how I practice my religion.. by going out further than most would, taking chances.

Post Script... like the poster above points out, he is discouraging investigation, knowingly or unknowingly. This is a serious danger mark for Icke if he does not come around soon, if he does not come to his senses,,, For example, IN his next life, I believe, David might want to seek true enlightenment at the feet of a teacher. But due to his promulgating of false and misleading statements in this matter, his enlightenment will be delayed. And example is Buddha Gottama who had to live 8 years as an ascetic due to one false statement he made about a monk. It's very bad Karma to make statements that counter God's work.
"nuff said".

:eek: Talk about "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"!
David Icke is now saying that The Supreme Consciousness (God/Krishna/Allah/Jah) is an evil "Reptilian"! Oh dear.
:rolleyes: His lack of humility will surely be the cause of his undoing. Shame.

[kasalt]

You'll also want to have a look at this thread, Pilgrim:

The Hidden Agenda of Mantra Meditation
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14010

[octopusrex]

Back to Zazen?

[quest]

Just as I thought: beneath all the spiritual nonsense that you espouse, lies the real person, as clearly demonstrated by your unpleasant PM. You gave the perfect example of what 'krishna consciousness' does for someone, so please allow me to share your PM with everybody and kindly refrain from sending such spam to me in future:

"What is your problem!?
Either provide EVIDENCE for your mindless, unfounded accusations against Krishna Consciousness, or SHUT THE FU*K UP!"

For your information, I don't get involved in anything at a superficial level, so I can assure you that any criticisms I have of religions (all of them) are neither mindless nor unfounded. I simply feel no need to waste any time describing the not insignificant amount of my life that I have spent looking deeply into all forms of spiritual practices. I couldn't care less whether you accept this as fact or not.

I also generally find that discussing such experiences with people who live behind masks of fake spirituality to be entirely fruitless (and boring) experiences. Providing them with 'evidence' simply sets them off again, because their ego never lets them have a break from trying to inflict their views on others, whether it be the 'cut & paste' variety on here (that I referred to in the first post) or verbal or written abuse.

Many of us, including ichi wa zen, cataleptik, razed1, amar7 and kasalt have seen through the shit that religion pollutes the world with and the parasitic life forms that live off it.

[optimus pigpot]

Just as I thought: beneath all the spiritual nonsense that you espouse, lies the real person, as clearly demonstrated by your unpleasant PM. You gave the perfect example of what quest may believe to be the case

Many of us, including ichi wa zen, cataleptik, razed1, amar7 and kasalt have seen through the shit that religion pollutes the world with and the parasitic life forms that live off it.


I had a hope for a second quest, about you being enlightened but then you began to name all the tossers who also claim enlightenment. So I took no notice and just derided your thread for what it is a piece of arrogant bullshit. You like everyone else and that is me inlcuded know fuck all.

If you think you know the way then carry on....... See where it get's you. It won't get me anywhere with your Dungeons and Dragons name. How old are you 21 or 23. Pubic hairs ready to spout in a late growth spurt. Thought you'd create your own religion or thought....... Best thing for you to do quest is go home get mommy to wipe your bot, bot and come back like a big boy because you will become the wipping boy off the forum and all forums have one, it's a time served thing....

Still, hope you enjoy it here, for as long as you are, I will.......

[quest]

Hmm, what an interesting response optimus!

How fascinating that you felt it was "arrogant bullshit" because that was the exact opposite of how I meant to come across; sorry about that!

I certainly don't make any great claims as to what I know, least of all with regard to enlightenment. When I mentioned the others, it was because I felt they'd also been maligned rather unfairly.

Your insults were a well over the top. If your hobbies include whipping people, that's none of my business.

Had I ever played Dungeons and Dragons, I might have a clearer idea about what you meant.

[optimus pigpot]

Hmm, what an interesting response optimus!

How fascinating that you felt it was "arrogant bullshit" because that was the exact opposite of how I meant to come across; sorry about that!

I certainly don't make any great claims as to what I know, least of all with regard to enlightenment. When I mentioned the others, it was because I felt they'd also been maligned rather unfairly.

Your insults were a well over the top. If your hobbies include whipping people, that's none of my business.

Had I ever played Dungeons and Dragons, I might have a clearer idea about what you meant.

You came across very well until you listed fools who have never been able to prove their "beliefs", though they promote them like they are fact.

I think I wish you well......

[quest]

Ah, well that is a good point. I hadn't gone to the trouble of reading all their posts so that, I guess, I may have been too hasty to rush to their defence; I will check later to see how much of a hole I might have put in my argument!

I kind of think I wish you well, maybe, perhaps, too!!!

[bigus_dickus]

Why do we bother to have a thread about religion? It just seems to encourage people to cut and paste acres of pointless details from stupid publications about krishna, the bible etc and it wastes expensive webspace.

you're right, quest. we shouldn't have a section about religion. to think of it, we shouldn't have a section about anything. what's the point? we should all just fuck, suck, eat and kill each other like we do in real life. oh and, listen to optimus pigpot talk about the chaos inside his butthole.. with an echo. ;)

[madthumbs]

The mind control sub forum should have been sufficient?

[quest]

I agree.

Incidently, your opposing digits website seems excellent: you've put together some really interesting DIY projects (some of which I intend to test out so I guess I have many creative accidents to look forward to!) and a great deal other excellent information. Well done!

The pdf handbook of natural cures is much appreciated, as I haven't been able to find a replacement or substitute for a great nature cure book that I've lost (it must have been printed in the 1940s or even earlier).

[octopusrex]

Anybody who has never played D&D needs to do so immediately to survive 2012...

[kasalt]

Many of us, including ichi wa zen, cataleptik, razed1, amar7 and kasalt have seen through the shit that religion pollutes the world with and the parasitic life forms that live off it.

Ichi wa zen has promoted numerous religious teachers:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=319372#post319372

Cataleptik claimed to be a Buddhist, here's my reply to him:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=301637#post301637

Here's a thread started by Amar7, joined with Razed1, promoting a fraud guru named Osho:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23301

As for myself, I have promoted chanting Hare Krishna:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6497

I figure we might as well put all our cards on the table.

[pilgrim]

For your information, I don't get involved in anything at a superficial level,
Many of us, including ichi wa zen, cataleptik, razed1, amar7 and kasalt have seen through the shit that religion pollutes the world with and the parasitic life forms that live off it.

I hadn't gone to the trouble of reading all their posts so that, I guess, I may have been too hasty to rush to their defence; I will check later to see how much of a hole I might have put in my argument!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ichi wa zen]

Ichi wa zen has promoted numerous religious teachers:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=319372#post319372


Those are not religious teachers, they dont teach religion or something to believe in. Its philosophy, education.........lessons about life..........free of dogma's and commandments. Things you can find out about for yourself and not about something existing in the sky, some book or down below. No false promises, just reality as it is!

Study these teachers: Dogen Zenji, Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, The Buddha, Basho, Ikkyu, Bodhidharma, Hui Neng, Ryokan, Layman Pang-Yun, Hakuin etc etc etc....... then when you understand what they mean forget about them and live it! Remember Kill The Buddha ;)

Their message in a nutshell? :D (sorry for spamming this pic, love it)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/prb01/8012581979.jpg

:p

[pilgrim]

Those are not religious teachers, they dont teach religion or something to believe in. Its philosophy, education.........lessons about life..........free of dogma's and commandments. Things you can find out about for yourself and not about something existing in the sky, some book or down below. No false promises, just reality as it is!

Study these teachers: Dogen Zenji, Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, The Buddha, Basho, Ikkyu, Bodhidharma, Hui Neng, Ryokan, Layman Pang-Yun, Hakuin etc etc etc....... then when you understand what they mean forget about them and live it! Remember Kill The Buddha ;)


How can we begin to study any of those teachers without reading about them?
And if we have to forget everything we have found out about/from them, would'nt it be better to not bother studying/understanding them in the first place?

[dedicate]

This is the dogma of "no dogma".

"No commandments".. so then the precepts are.. suggestions? And why believe in the Four Noble Truths?

"Not about something existing in the sky".. but the Buddha is always pointing to the sky. I guess we will here, 'Buddha is pointing to nothing'.\ But to quote Zen, "Nothing is not nothing".

This poster never really has anything new to say. Always the same, Ho Hum.

Thing is he doesn't appear open to other traditions that get to the same points as Toa. Which is a shame, because Buddhism, or whatever you want to call it, is one of the most tolerant religions. Oh, I'm sorry,,, it's not "religion" ..Excuse me for trying to communicate.

[optimus pigpot]

How can we begin to study any of those teachers without reading about them?
And if we have to forget everything we have found out about/from them, would'nt it be better to not bother studying/understanding them in the first place?

When you said the above highlighted in purple, "about/from them" this is the point. You never found shit. You were given these texts by people that YOU NEVER knew!!! AND will never know...... Because you weren't there and just because you cling to these hopes doesn't make it happen. You just aren't learning that the hopes you cling to are failing you. But you're in a catch twenty two. Because you believe them so much you rely on them to prop up your belief. But it's still not real. I really pity all of you fucking mind controlled fools........

[ichi wa zen]

How can we begin to study any of those teachers without reading about them?
And if we have to forget everything we have found out about/from them, would'nt it be better to not bother studying/understanding them in the first place?

Meditation Master Kyōgen Chikan was training at Mount Daii in the community of Isan Reiyū. Isan said to him, “You are a learned scholar of considerable intelligence. So, without having to rely on what you have memorized from commentaries, surely you should be able to explain for me in your own words what the phrase ‘before “father” and “mother” were born’ means.” However many times he tried, Kyōgen was unable to do so. Deeply ashamed of himself, he consulted all the Scripture books and their commentaries that he had amassed over the years, but he was still left at wit’s end. Finally, he took a torch and burned the writings he had previously collected, saying, “A rice cake in a painting will never satisfy one’s hunger!

Shobogenzo by Dogen Zenji

[ichi wa zen]

This is the dogma of "no dogma".

"No commandments".. so then the precepts are.. suggestions? And why believe in the Four Noble Truths?

"Not about something existing in the sky".. but the Buddha is always pointing to the sky. I guess we will here, 'Buddha is pointing to nothing'.\ But to quote Zen, "Nothing is not nothing".

This poster never really has anything new to say. Always the same, Ho Hum.

Thing is he doesn't appear open to other traditions that get to the same points as Toa. Which is a shame, because Buddhism, or whatever you want to call it, is one of the most tolerant religions. Oh, I'm sorry,,, it's not "religion" ..Excuse me for trying to communicate.

Please explain the dogma in this quote from The Buddha: “Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”

You say that nothing new has been said.

People are born, grow old and die, it has been like this since the days of old, how could it have changed today?

[octopusrex]

Meditation Master Kyōgen Chikan was training at Mount Daii in the community of Isan Reiyū. Isan said to him, “You are a learned scholar of considerable intelligence. So, without having to rely on what you have memorized from commentaries, surely you should be able to explain for me in your own words what the phrase ‘before “father” and “mother” were born’ means.” However many times he tried, Kyōgen was unable to do so. Deeply ashamed of himself, he consulted all the Scripture books and their commentaries that he had amassed over the years, but he was still left at wit’s end. Finally, he took a torch and burned the writings he had previously collected, saying, “A rice cake in a painting will never satisfy one’s hunger!

Shobogenzo by Dogen Zenji

Zen Masters are notorious for dying of colon-cancer.

[ichi wa zen]

Zen Masters are notorious for dying of colon-cancer.

People are notorious for dying of life.

[octopusrex]

People are notorious for dying of life.

Better life than a 100 ft. pole!

[quest]

Pilgrim:

Was it all that hare krishna programming you've gone in for responsible for you being so sarcastic or were you simply born that way?

[pilgrim]

Pilgrim:
Was it all that hare krishna programming you've gone in for responsible for you being so sarcastic or were you simply born that way?
No x 2 :)

[gold]

Everything that has been said, done, invented, felt and experienced, has all been done before, take that cave they found near to the Vatican, it had a picture on it of Snoopy the cartoon dog, this is something archaeologists found, and I'm so sorry I didn't save the clip now. Have they hidden it?
I would be very interested to hear from anyone who did save this clip from the media!
and confirm I didn't just dream it!!!

[octopusrex]

Gold.. I tend to agree.

[gold]

Gold.. I tend to agree.

Thanks oct! Wish I'd kept that clip!

[octopusrex]

Thanks oct! Ever watched the film 'Ground Hog Day'?:)

Required viewing at the Zen Monastery where I practiced.

[intruder]

Six billion ants
Crawling on a plate
Six billion ants
Crawling on a plate
None of them give back
As much as they take
Six billion ants
Crawling on a plate

Doesn't mean you should
Just because you can
It doesn't mean you should
Just because you can
Like Issac and Ishmael
Fighting over sand
It doesn't mean you should
Just because you can

That is a fact of life
That is a fact of life

Now some of us build
And some of us teach
Some of us build
Some of us teach
And some of us kill
What some of us eat

That is a fact of life
That is a fact of life

Nobody knows
What happens when you die
Nobody knows
What happens when you die
Believe what you want
It doesn't mean you're right

That is a fact of life
That is a fact of life
-Adrian Belew

[dedicate]

ichi wa zen -- I was saying that some times it seems we are argueing differences about the same thing. One persons says "infinite consciousness" another says "God" and someone else will say "look inside you".. and it's all the same. Maybe I should be more understanding, is what I was saying.

[optimus pigpot]

When you said the above highlighted in purple, "about/from them" this is the point. You never found shit. You were given these texts by people that YOU NEVER knew!!! AND will never know...... Because you weren't there and just because you cling to these hopes doesn't make it happen. You just aren't learning that the hopes you cling to are failing you. But you're in a catch twenty two. Because you believe them so much you rely on them to prop up your belief. But it's still not real. I really pity all of you fucking mind controlled fools........

Still no answer........

[pilgrim]

When you said the above highlighted in purple, "about/from them" this is the point. You never found shit. You were given these texts by people that YOU NEVER knew!!! AND will never know...... Because you weren't there and just because you cling to these hopes doesn't make it happen. You just aren't learning that the hopes you cling to are failing you. But you're in a catch twenty two. Because you believe them so much you rely on them to prop up your belief. But it's still not real. I really pity all of you fucking mind controlled fools........

Still no answer........
Sorry, but i did'nt even realise that you had asked a question!
What is your question? :confused:
I also did'nt really understand what you were trying to say in your post, apart from the usual "you're all fu*king mind-controlled fools". :rolleyes:

[octopusrex]

A mind is controlable, Pilgrim, only to the extent of it's meditation.

Hari Bol.

[optimus pigpot]

apart from the usual "you're all fu*king mind-controlled fools". :rolleyes:

My point encapsulated in a section of your sentence.

Hairy Bollock.

[octopusrex]

If you put your mind on zero, tabula rasa, nothing, an empty sheet of paper...

Errasing everything you "thought" was real....

You are most vulnerable in that moment to be reprogrammed by anybody with a good idea. It is much like a child, not knowning good from bad, up from down...

Dangerous place that is...

[pilgrim]

My point encapsulated in a section of your sentence.

Hairy Bollock.
That's because i was quoting you, stupid. :rolleyes:

Listen, Hairy Bollock,
(nice new name, it really suits you!)
Why are you so proud of your ignorance?
I actually feel embarrassed for you.
Are you 14 years old?
or just a foul-minded ignorant fool?

[blue]

Listen, Hairy Bollock,
(nice new name, it really suits you!)
Why are you so proud of your ignorance?
I actually feel embarrassed for you.
Are you 14 years old?
or just a foul-minded ignorant fool?

the hitopadesha from guru pilgrimapada

[pilgrim]

the hitopadesha from guru pilgrimapada
Hello blue,
I'm STILL WAITING for you to provide ANY EVIDENCE to back up your claims that Srila Prabhupada is a "con-man" and "sex-guru":
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=327087&postcount=82

You are now the 6th person to make such strong accusations, but could provide ZERO EVIDENCE. :rolleyes:
"Truth-Seekers". What a joke! :confused:

[octopusrex]

Heres a little tidbit that is important to note in this thread:

Religion and Politics are intimately woven together and they are inseparable. Folks worry about dying. Religion adresses that issue and it is the prime motivation in civilization, this fear of dying. Ofcourse, folks don't really worry much.. That's why they got churches for.

Freud tells us that we have two prime impulses: Eros and Thanatos. The impulse of life (procreation/sex) and then the death impulse. Budha tells us that of the footprints, the elephant's is supreme, and of the meditations the death meditation is supreme. Shamans worldwide have to enter into the "death" realms or better yet: spirit realms to come back with information on how to heal their tribe.

So, Religion takes over the role of witch-doctors and becomes the primary social-programming institution by dealing with these two impulses: eros and thanatos.

Your beleifs are of no importance. Your actions however, do matter. How will you structure yourself socially? What will be the codex by which you live? Even the pirates (the only real true and undiluted democracy that ever existed) had rules.

Now, regarding rules, i am of the opinion that the fewer the better. However, in Pilgrim's religion, there are a few important ones that have not been properly addressed by other religions faiths or political movements, chiefly amongst which are the protection of ANIMALS...

It's a little like picking and choosing that which works best for all...

Not an easy nor a agreeable job.. Everybody wants to have their pet rule followed. Nobody wants to follow anybodyelses rules.

[pilgrim]

Your beleifs are of no importance. Your actions however, do matter...
..Now, regarding rules, i am of the opinion that the fewer the better. However, in Pilgrim's religion, there are a few important ones that have not been properly addressed by other religions faiths or political movements, chiefly amongst which are the protection of ANIMALS...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYZGxtQp3hY
:(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emXRuu32JEE

[blue]

"Truth-Seekers". What a joke! :confused:

so you think you found the truth? or your conman sex guru pada knows the truth?

[blue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYZGxtQp3hY
:(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emXRuu32JEE

go vegan? what purpose do the sharp teeth (Cuspid (canine/eye tooth)) have?
to tear the leaves?

[pilgrim]

so you think you found the truth? or your conman sex guru pada knows the truth?
More AD HOMINEM!
Still NO EVIDENCE!
:rolleyes:

[pilgrim]

go vegan? what purpose do the sharp teeth (Cuspid (canine/eye tooth)) have?
to tear the leaves?
Ah, now i understand.
You feed on the corpses of murdered innocent animals from Illuminati slaughterhouses.
That explains why you're so dumb & brainwashed. :rolleyes:
I'm Vegetarian, not Vegan by the way. :)

[blue]

More AD HOMINEM!
Still NO EVIDENCE!
:rolleyes:

no evidence that sex guru pada and you know the real truth.
more sex gurus
:rolleyes:

[blue]

Ah, now i understand.
You feed on the corpses of murdered innocent animals from Illuminati slaughterhouses.
That explains why you're so dumb & brainwashed. :rolleyes:
I'm Vegetarian, not Vegan by the way. :)

thanks for calling me dumb and brainwashed. im sure sex guru pada would be very happy by your calls......the hitopadeshas

[pilgrim]

no evidence that sex guru pada and you know the real truth.
more sex gurus
:rolleyes:
Yet more AD HOMINEM!
But, still NO EVIDENCE!
:)

[blue]

Yet more AD HOMINEM!
But, still NO EVIDENCE!
:)

more sex gurus on david icke forum
but still no one knows the real truth
more sex gurus:rolleyes:

[pilgrim]

thanks for calling me dumb and brainwashed.
Well, you seem to BELIEVE that Srila Prabhupada was a "con-man & sex-guru". :eek:
But, there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever to support those beliefs! :rolleyes:
Therefore, i can only conclude that you MUST be brainwashed and/or dumb! :)

[blue]

Well, you seem to BELIEVE that Srila Prabhupada was a "con-man & sex-guru". :eek:
But, there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever to support those beliefs! :rolleyes:
Therefore, i can only conclude that you MUST be brainwashed and/or dumb! :)

LMFAO.
brainwashed/dumb = a state where you are unable to provide any proof that srila "conman" prabhupada is a conman. anything you deny of padas teaching makes you eligible for piligrims' hitopadesha.

[pilgrim]

LMFAO.
brainwashed/dumb = a state where you are unable to provide any proof that srila "conman" prabhupada is a conman. anything you deny of padas teaching makes you eligible for piligrims' hitopadesha.
'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool,
than open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
- Samuel Johnson
:)

[blue]

'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool,
than open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
- Samuel Johnson
:)

stay foolish........stay hungry
-steve jobs

[mysteria]

Boy this Pilgrim is such a loving spiritual guy and never resorts to name calling!

:D

[pilgrim]

Boy this Pilgrim is such a loving spiritual guy and never resorts to name calling!
:D
mysteria, you joined these forums only 2 days ago.
You have so far made 46 posts and every single on of them is an attack on me!

Starting at Post#167 HERE:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22641&page=17

and continuing at Post#245 HERE:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16586&page=25

Who are you?
Why are you stalking me?
What is your problem?

[mysteria]

My problem is fanatics like you who misrepresent Gaudiya Vaishnavism yet preach to other people and insult them if they disagree with your dogmatic, narrow-minded, one-sided approach.

You have a Kindergarten understanding of this tradition but think you can set people straight on spirituality.

I have gone through various threads here and see this kind of behaviour from you over and over again and think it's time you get a taste of your own medicine.

Hows that?

:)

[pilgrim]

http://pics.bikerag.com/Uploads/data/500/258Troll_spray.jpg

[mysteria]

Your just afraid to discuss Gaudiya Siddhanta with me plain and simple, you don't fool me or most of the people here.

You don't know what Diksa is or a Guru Parampara according to this tradition, yet you want to stuff your fanatical Jehovas Witness approach down others throats and demean any understanding of spirituality they may have if it is outside yours.

;)

[empyblessing]

MOAR sex gurus plox. I've always wanted to join a sex cult. Are the krishnas good for that?

[pilgrim]

MOAR sex gurus plox. I've always wanted to join a sex cult. Are the krishnas good for that?
No.

[mysteria]

No.
but very good with sexISM...RIGHT?

:p

[marpat]

Why do we bother to have a thread about religion? It just seems to encourage people to cut and paste acres of pointless details from stupid publications about krishna, the bible etc and it wastes expensive webspace.

It seems especially absurd when one considers the evidence that Icke and others go to great trouble to produce that exposes religions as simply corrupt institutions that are components of a wider control system and fabrications of people's egoistic imaginations (especially in the case of manufactured icons like jesus).

Surely we should have got to the stage by now where we have no need to give energy to religions of any kind? Who actually cares what piece of fiction was written first about jesus, krishna or any of the other invented 'dashboard saints'? It's all useless rubbish that does nothing to help us in the present day.

Surely we should have moved on by now from the need for such pathetic crutches as the myriads of mind-numbing 'holy' books, priests, gurus that are available or mind-numbing (sic) chants like sodding 'hare krishna'!

Just because you don't like it that does not mean others don't.

You think you have evolved beyond religion? do you subscribe to the idea on a universal consciousness?

Even David Icke believes in a collective consciousness, which is not really that much of a difference from the idea of God.

[brio313]

Please forgive me for any offences.....

Mysteria i am very interested to know why you are so arrogant and hostile toward pilgrim.

Jealous of his devotion maybe?

i don't have the impression pilgrim seek out and try to harass people because of their standpoint, but when some others including your self out of the blue sky start to mock him because of his behaviour i get rather dejected.

If you know so much more about Krishna, Gaudiya Siddhanta, Gaudiya Vaishnavism/Chaitanya Vaishnavism, etc... than pilgrim? Since you place your knowledge skyhigher than pilgrim's, please, why don't you enlighten us,so we can see your true face then?

Instead your approach give me a nasty distaste.

[mysteria]

Hey whatever dude..

I don't care what you say, his approach is nothing less than fanatical and delusional and TRUTH needs to be spoken, here's a PERFECT example:

Prabhupada's amazing miracle of translating the essence of the ancient Vedas to the people of the world and thus revealing the clear path to true spiritual realization, free from all religious dogma will bring about the Spiritual World Order of peace, enlightenment and equality for all on the this planet for 10,000 years!

Prabhupada has been sent by Krishna [God] to this world to educate all people in the science of self and God realization. He has come to fulfil the desire and complete the work of all the previous representatives, servants, and incarnations of God such as Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha etc.

This is not a Rikvik Hare Krishna website thank God, and people need to hear another side as far as I am concerned!

[mysteria]

This is a forum about revealing TRUTH, not about promoting some religious agenda that someone or some group advocates with out being questioned.

Pilgrim, quotes and quotes and quotes from letters, articles etc. to try and preach his agenda of CONVERTING people (trust me that IS the agenda here, I know because I was part of that organization for many years, LONG before Pilgrim even heard of it)

In between all his unquestionable quotes he is insulting, nasty and shows his religious bigotry to anyone who questions or has a different point of view!

Again this is a forum about questioning hidden agendas and those that try to imprison us with ideologies and one-sided fanatical views etc.

;)

[brio313]

Ok, mysteria i see your point. Even though i disagree about your impression about pilgrim.

A couple of years ago i discovered Bhagavad Gita as it is (praphupada's exceptional translation from 1972) in my friends bookshelf. Bhagavad Gita and Prabupada's divine work made an undescribely huge impact on me. And my spiritually life got resurrected by Prabhupada's mercy.

Of course there are other great souls and ways to get self realization. But i have to admit i am very curious about why you mean Prabupada is not authentic, and how you basicially describe his work and intentions as not bona fide? Is he not an authentic representative of the Supreme Godhead Krishna? Can you please back up that claim?

Do you mean Prabhupada, his HUGE amount of translations of vedic scriptures, his teachings regarding Krishna Consciousness is brainwashing at high stage, and ironically move people away from Krishna or self realization? or do mean the "right" approach is far more effective? Please make me understand your assertion.

You claim pilgrim is fanatical and delusional. So what is the "right" way to be a devotee of Krishna then?

Could you be so kind and describe what is wrong with the "fake" doctrine Praphupada poured to millions of people, and then tell me what is the right doctrine regarding KC?

What is the right approach?
You have moved on, so where are you now?
What have you done?
What is TRUTH?
or atleast your version of it.....


PS!
Are you a devotee of Lord Krishna?
Do you have a Spiritual Master?


Excuse me for any offences, but my heart ache when you speak in such manner towards Praphupada and his sincere devotees.

if you can answer me i will be outmost grateful.

[mysteria]

Read what I have posted already you obviously have not...

I don't think Prabupada was a fake, I just think he did not give the entire picture and somewhat of a watered version of Chaitanya Vaishnavism, but that was not his fault, his exposure to Chaitanya Vaishnavism was primarily the Gaudiya Math institution of his Guru Bhaktisiddhanta which was a missionary version of Chaitanya Vaishnavism that had splintered off from traditional Chaitanya Vaishnavism teachings and invented and fabricated their own version of things.

I believe Prabupada was very sincere and I still have affection for him, but I also know that there were a lot of things left out due to his not being privy to them.
And I will say that I do disagree with some of his views and the things he said about women and other spiritual paths like Advaita or Buddhism. But that does not mean I do not appreciate what I learned from him at the time, I value that period in my life, but moved on.

The fact is, is that Iskcon does not have proper diksha into an authentic Guru-parampara within the Chaitanya Vaishnava tradition. This is pretty well known stuff in Vaishnava circles both in Vrndanava and West Bengal.

The Gaudiya Math fell apart after Bhaktisiddhanta passed away when this was found out as well back in 1934, long before Prabupada even came to the west.

Read the article I posted, "Why Bhaktisiddhanta never Got Initiation" that gives a fair amount of history in this regard?

As far as what I consider to be 'TRUTH', I don't subscribe to any 'ONE SIZE FITS ALL' way of thinking at all in any way, I believe truth to be a very individual thing that only we ourselves can discover on our own, it is more less a private affair, sure we can get inspiration form many sources, but we ultimately have to discover and most importantly EXPERIENCE it on our own, otherwise we are just mimicking.

BTW are you Pilgrims other incarnation? :D

[brio313]

Hey on the way again mysteria, and thank you for the information.:)
i think you are right, i should have read closer what you wrote. i get your point.

i personally have no affection toward isckon or any institutional direction.
God for me is not all this stuff. All this is man made contrivance. I simply want back to the basics, to the highway....

Prabupada was flexible in the way that traditionalist don't even consider him to be a part of the parampara.

But Prabupadas spiritually influence towards millions of people in the west is remarkable. i personally think he has the sign of a great soul as an agent for Krishna/God in the west, as he has awakened so many souls back to the way home to Godhead. His translations of vedic scriptures from sanskrit to english is inexpressible, and a great grace from a soul which is so devoted to act in Krishna's service.

It's a shame how the rotten isckon top among other things, directly change his books and translation to form isckon in their own corrupt mind.

Pilgrim can speak for himself BTW,
but it's good to see you have your humor intact mysteria:D

[pilgrim]

mysteria presumes so much about me! :eek:

I am not a member of iskCON, Gaudiya Math, IRM or any other organisations. :rolleyes:

There are many "traditionalist" Vaisnava groups in India who are envious of Srila Prabhupada's success in spreading Krsna consciousness in the West. They will do or say anything to minimise his achievements and steal his Western disciples. (eg: Narayan Maharaj).
I think mysteria has been poisoned by the propaganda of these Sahajiya & Mayavadi groups. ;)

[mysteria]

There are many "traditionalist" Vaisnava groups in India who are envious of Srila Prabhupada's success in spreading Krsna consciousness in the West.

How would you know that? Your lost in some hybrid bubble that does not know a traditional Chaitanya Vaishnava from a Jehovas Witness.

All your information on traditional CV is from hearsay fanatical idiots, not 1st hand at all.

Guys like you who think diksha is from reading letters need to get a handle on basic teachings of Sanatan Dharma that apply to all authentic Guru-paramparas be it Vaishnava, Shaiva, advaita etc.

:)

[pilgrim]

mysteria knows nothing about me but continues to make so many presumptions. (Alongside ad-hominem attacks & straw-man arguments, that i will continue to ignore). Although he says he has "moved-on", his posts targeting me seem to suggest that he has some serious issues he has yet to deal with!

[mysteria]

(Alongside ad-hominem attacks & straw-man arguments, that i will continue to ignore)

More typical Iskcon (or hybrid spin off ) language, anyone who disagrees with him is using ad-hominem attacks & straw-man arguments, how lame.

Actually I know more about you than you think, your posts tell it all.

:D

[pilgrim]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=400609#post400609

I created the above thread so mysteria could continue to enlighten us all with his wisdom, instead of stalking me on these forums and taking threads off-topic. :rolleyes:

[brio313]

I think mysteria has been poisoned by the propaganda of these Sahajiya & Mayavadi groups. ;)

word, excuse me for loving, but he sounds mad ignorant, and behave like an angry demon. Mysteria i think your attitude is at a repulsive level!!.:eek:

Why can't you be more humble if you have such high knowledge as you proclaim?:rolleyes:

[mysteria]

word, excuse me for loving, but he sounds mad ignorant, and behave like an angry demon. Mysteria i think your attitude is at a repulsive level!!.:eek:

Why can't you be more humble if you have such high knowledge as you proclaim?:rolleyes:

Hi Pilgrim 2,

You are sounding brainwashed too now with this "angry demon" which just means anyone who disagrees with such fanatical dogmatic fundamentalist views like Pilgrims and obviously yours too (Pilgrim2)

too funny, such Iskcon jargon cracks me up.

HA!

[pilgrim]

Hi Pilgrim 2,
You are sounding brainwashed too now with this "angry demon" which just means anyone who disagrees with such fanatical dogmatic fundamentalist views like Pilgrims and obviously yours too (Pilgrim2)
too funny, such Iskcon jargon cracks me up.
HA!
Now i get it. If mysteria thinks anyone disagrees with him, they are "brainwashed". :rolleyes:

What exactly are pilgrim's "fanatical dogmatic fundamentalist views" that seem to upset you so much? :)

[mysteria]

What exactly are pilgrim's "fanatical dogmatic fundamentalist views" that seem to upset you so much? :)


sounds like your forgetting which identity of yours is posting what.

;)

[brio313]

Hi Pilgrim 2,

You are sounding brainwashed too now with this "angry demon" which just means anyone who disagrees with such fanatical dogmatic fundamentalist views like Pilgrims and obviously yours too (Pilgrim2)

too funny, such Iskcon jargon cracks me up.

HA!


Allright mysteria, i was only joking like a jester for the king, as my name implies.....:cool:

your stigmatization of me as a fanatical dogmatic fundamentalist bounces right off!!! ;)

You know mysteria, all balls don't bounce....:rolleyes:

But anyway, peace i'm out of this debate mysteria, i wish you truly well my good friend. I have to thank you for your insights and information.

Only wish you could continue to share your viewpoints without harassing others, just because you feel they are likewise.

I own you an apology if i insulted your presence mysteria.

Now i have to go with flow, cause that's how i do it though...,
Floating with leviathan, he said he were higher than....:eek:

Aio, you have blazed too much black gold tonight brio!!!!!.....:p
Hovering at clud nine, where nine suns shine, høhø:D

Brio wishes you people of good will still a sublime night....:)

[mysteria]

Allright mysteria, i was only joking like a jester for the king, as my name implies.....:cool:

your stigmatization of me as a fanatical dogmatic fundamentalist bounces right off!!! ;)

You know mysteria, all balls don't bounce....:rolleyes:

But anyway, peace i'm out of this debate mysteria, i wish you truly well my good friend. I have to thank you for your insights and information.

Only wish you could continue to share your viewpoints without harassing others, just because you feel they are likewise.

I own you an apology if i insulted your presence mysteria.

Now i have to go with flow, cause that's how i do it though...,
Floating with leviathan.....

Aio, you have blazed too much black gold tonight brio!!!!!.....:p
Hovering at clud nine, where nine suns shine, høhø:D

Brio wishes you people of good will still a sublime night....:)

Hey cool man, appreciate it.

I must say its getting rather stuffy here on these threads with Pilgrim, makes me feel like I'm in a sandbox somewhere at some kiddie park.

:D

[pilgrim]

sounds like your forgetting which identity of yours is posting what.
;)
Sounds like you're getting desperate and/or paranoid!
:o

[pilgrim]

I must say its getting rather stuffy here on these threads with Pilgrim, makes me feel like I'm in a sandbox somewhere at some kiddie park.
:D
Well it's a sandbox you chose to play in. :rolleyes:
I'm going to play on the swings. The sandbox is all yours. Have fun! :)

[michaelangelo]

Some interesting answers, so far, and not a cut and paste job re krishna or jesus etc in sight, phew!

Like kasalt, I think tomorrow's Icke newsletter should encourage a really interesting discussion because it looks like it will show how new age spirituality simply mirrors the bollocks promulgated by the 'regular' religions. It will be interesting to see if it will cover similar territory to that which Steve Gamble has been working on since the late 90s in his Shopping for Spirit articles, currently up to number 9, I think http://www.equilibra.uk.com/articles.shtml

I read all Steve Gamble's Shopping For Spirit Articles a while back. They explain a lot and well worth reading. Steve is working on putting it all in book form now.