The ILLUMINATI has made us DULL to SIMPLE TRUTH [Archive]

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 03:37 AM

what i know its bad, i am panjabi/sikh, we are either strict veget-arians, or consumers of whiskey and lamb/chicken, lol.
although i am cutting down on consumption. in fact i feel better after eating vegetarian food/curries, so i know deep down its better for me.
not only that, but one must experiences all inequities to have experience/empathy, lol
I apologise if my outburst offended you.
Please have some compassion for the innocent animals.
Give up the contaminating meat ASAP.
The Supreme will be pleased with you. :)

Cardinal Danielou: But why does God create some animals who eat other animals? There is a fault in the creation, it seems.

Srila Prabhupada: It is not a fault. God is very kind. If you want to eat animals, then He'll give you full facility. God will give you the body of a tiger in your next life so that you can eat flesh very freely. "Why are you maintaining slaughterhouses? I'll give you fangs and claws. Now eat." So the meat-eaters are awaiting such punishment. The animal-eaters become tigers, wolves, cats, and dogs in their next life--to get more facility."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw0c9Lz5m2k

kblood

30-03-2008, 03:38 AM

Are you serious synergy :confused: I'm truly shocked!
I never had you down as the ignorant type that would gorge yourself on the corpses of murdered chickens and baby sheep. :eek:
FFS!

Please Look At My Posts Here:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22093&page=12

If you like animals so much, then why do you eat their food? :p

You know, you could eat your way to give animals better conditions. Buy the meat from animals that didnt live their whole life in small cages, instead of just not eating them at all. I see it as inconsiderate not to eat meat, and then claim it is for the good of animals. Animals eat animals, and it is perfectly natural for us to do so as well. This is why I think it is hypocritical to not eat animals, and then say it is for the good of the world and animals. That logic is very flawed.

That said, we do eat alot more meat than we ought to eat. Maybe because meat is so easy to come by.

kblood

30-03-2008, 03:43 AM

Cardinal Danielou: But why does God create some animals who eat other animals? There is a fault in the creation, it seems.

Srila Prabhupada: It is not a fault. God is very kind. If you want to eat animals, then He'll give you full facility. God will give you the body of a tiger in your next life so that you can eat flesh very freely. "Why are you maintaining slaughterhouses? I'll give you fangs and claws. Now eat." So the meat-eaters are awaiting such punishment. The animal-eaters become tigers, wolves, cats, and dogs in their next life--to get more facility."

Maybe we arent tigers, but our teeth does show that we arent just plant eaters either.

I do see you point about baby animals though. I have often questioned why it has to be baby animals? And I never really figured why.

As for chickens, I do think they are full grown, but they still call them chickens. Not sure though, maybe they dont get a full life.

synergy777

30-03-2008, 03:43 AM

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 03:49 AM

If you like animals so much, then why do you eat their food?.. Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah...
This is why I think it is hypocritical to not eat animals.. Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah...

Listen-up kblood:

1: I wasn't talking to you!

2: Go ahead, kill animals and live like an animal if you want. :D

3: I would rather live like a civilized human-being. :)

4: Why do you seem to have a problem with that? :confused:

5: What are you afraid of? :rolleyes:

Don't bother answering, i'm not interested.

razed1

30-03-2008, 04:09 AM

your guru doesn't sound very reasonable.

he says:

"the body is born. you are first a boy, then become a man.
when you are a man, then you are no longer a boy but you still exist.
so when your body dies, is it not logical you will get a new body?"

that sounds like a weak excuse for getting people to believe in reincarnation.
i mean, maybe reincarnation exist, and maybe "prahbuphada" is genuine (although i strongly doubt it)

but one has to give stronger proof than just teling a story.
cause the way i see it,
if i want to believe in a story without having been given proof
i might just as well become a Raelian then or a Christian...

& i might want to start believe in Reptilians and 2012 ascension just as well :p

if your vision is so narrowminded, then why the avatar?

why post some picture of a female and a blue baby, with some galaxy in the background?

what does that have to do with you?

razed1

30-03-2008, 04:11 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRqqJNZeQjg
Further Research:
http://causelessmercy.com/

this is more ego worship

i dont consider this true gnosis, more brainwashing, did you bother watching the last min of video?? thats what you call BRAINWASHING, GROUPTHINK

so far from any REAL kind of spirituality,

unless of course you are into the new 'designer' spirituality, where you need to be worshippped

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 04:14 AM

its true pilgrim, really we should not eat meat, or if we do, we should eat it less, much less. the fact is if i had to raise my own animals etc, i would never kill them for food. its just easy now because we get it from the shop.
i like chicken, lamb etc. but if i had them on the farm i might eat eggs, but if you raise them you build a bond with them, so i could never kill them. when i look into the eyes of animals, you see the spirit/life in them.
life is a bitch, its too complicated when you are informed.
These are the bridges we HAVE TO cross if we are to realise our full potential and re-connect with The Supreme. Giving up meat 25 years ago, was a struggle for me, but i can honestly say that it was one of the best decisions i have ever made! (for physical, emotional and, most importantly, Spiritual reasons). :)

synergy777

30-03-2008, 04:18 AM

true words pilgrim, i cannot really argue with that.

i know the fault is with my lack of discipline/weakness.

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 04:19 AM

PLEASE READ! VERY IMPORTANT!

Srila Prabhupada: We want to stop these killing houses. It is very, very sinful. That is why all over the world they have so many wars.
Every ten or fifteen years there is a big war-a wholesale slaughterhouse for humankind. But these rascals-they do not see it, that by the law of karma, every action must have its reaction.

You are killing innocent cows and other animals-nature will take revenge. Just wait. As soon as the time is right, nature will gather all these rascals and slaughter them. Finished. They'll fight amongst themselves-Protestants and Catholics, Russia and America, this one and that one. It is going on. Why? That is nature's law. Tit for tat. "You have killed. Now you kill yourselves."

They are sending animals to the slaughterhouse, and now they'll create their own slaughterhouse. This is nature's law. It's not necessary that you be sent to the ordinary slaughterhouse. You'll make a slaughterhouse at home. You'll kill your own child-abortion. This is nature's law. Who are these children being killed? They are these meat-eaters. They enjoyed themselves when so many animals were killed, and now they're being killed by their mothers. People do not know how nature is working. If you kill, you must be killed. If you kill the cow, who is your mother, then in some future lifetime your mother will kill you. Yes. The mother becomes the child, and the child becomes the mother.

If you eat meat, that means you become implicated in sinful activities. You have to be killed by your enemy, and he will eat you, or you become a goat or a hog or a cow, and your other person will kill you. Just like nowadays this abortion, killing the child is going on, so the same man, again he is killed by the so-called father and mother. It will act. This is nature's law. You cannot escape. If you have killed an animal, then you must be killed by that animal. When I eat meat, this animal also will eat me again." This You cannot escape this. "Life for life." That is the law everywhere. If you have murdered somebody, you must be killed also. So you can escape the so-called state laws, but you cannot escape the laws of the material nature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 05:47 AM

you just gave me a link to a site with reading material that takes days to go through.
if there's really proof for the reincarnation in there,
can you please point me to where exactly?
It actually take years to read all of Srila Prabhupada's 80+ volumes of books and translations of Vedic Knowledge.
I have read them all at least twice over the last 20 years.

I cannot keep answering the same questions everytime someone asks them.
Please click on my name and see my previous posts before asking questions. :)

Reincarnation Explained:
http://www.salagram.net/ReincarnationExplained.html

cheemflo

30-03-2008, 08:18 AM

I find it enlightening that he sits higher than his followers, gets continuously fanned, and allows people to bow down to him...

The "Krishna Conciousness movement" is nothing more than a sect for me.

cheemflo

30-03-2008, 08:21 AM

And isn't Krishna just the previous incarnation of Yeshua? Also, why do people who follow Hare Krishna largely know nothing about the Illuminati? I am speaking about the innocent young men and women I see walking around town every day.

rossus

30-03-2008, 01:22 PM

if your vision is so narrowminded, then why the avatar?

why post some picture of a female and a blue baby, with some galaxy in the background?

what does that have to do with you?
if not believing something to be true, until decent proof has been given...
is narrowminded...

then i'm happy to be narrowminded :cool:
It actually take years to read all of Srila Prabhupada's 80+ volumes of books and translations of Vedic Knowledge.
I have read them all at least twice over the last 20 years.

I cannot keep answering the same questions everytime someone asks them.
Please click on my name and see my previous posts before asking questions. :)

Reincarnation Explained:
http://www.salagram.net/ReincarnationExplained.html
i've read it but sadly, it only offers an explanation...
not really proof that this explanation is the truth.

to me it seems that...
just like (many) christian believe the bible-stories is the truth as it is,
and muslims believe the koran-stories to be the truth as it is,
you believe the prabuphada stories to be the truth as it is.

which is perfectly fine ofcourse.
i just wanted to point out that the things you speak off as fact,
is not fact but theory.

razed1

30-03-2008, 04:12 PM

if not believing something to be true, until decent proof has been given...
is narrowminded...

then i'm happy to be narrowminded :cool:

i've read it but sadly, it only offers an explanation...
not really proof that this explanation is the truth.

to me it seems that...
just like (many) christian believe the bible-stories is the truth as it is,
and muslims believe the koran-stories to be the truth as it is,
you believe the prabuphada stories to be the truth as it is.

which is perfectly fine ofcourse.
i just wanted to point out that the things you speak off as fact,
is not fact but theory.

you want PROOF

what do you prefer? a certificate signed and stamped by harvard university or personally autographed letter of reccomendation from teh queen of england??

razed1

30-03-2008, 04:23 PM

beldazar

30-03-2008, 04:35 PM

razed1

30-03-2008, 04:38 PM

rossus

30-03-2008, 04:57 PM

see there is where the words "hypocrite" or "FAKE" come to mind

you put up this picture of krishna and the galaxy, but yet your mind is linear, so controlled that this BASIC idea of reincarnation is something you cannot get your mind around

even for the most left brained controlled white person, they should at least be aware that their OWN heritage and occult teachings , ALSO teach about the immortality of the soul, from the times of the druids

when you hear david icke talk about "infinite" consciousness, what do think that means??

what 'proof' is necessary for you??
so far i am fake, hypocrite and closeminded....
anything else?

what proof is necessary,
ok let me make up an example with my dumb mind for you.

suppose there is a book called "the book of truth",
inside this book it is said that our universe is actually a dream by a pink elephant in the real universe.
so we are not real, we are characters in the dream of a certain pink elephant... and we believe ourself to be real while we're not.

so, um... because it is written in a book, it must be the truth?
i suppose this is enough proof for you?

are you gonna start believing in my story now?

my book with the story of the pink elephant,
doesn't give much less proof for it to be real than reincarnation story...
same thing with 2012 ascension, reptilians, hollow earth, etc.

beldazar

30-03-2008, 05:02 PM

it wasnt an argument, just an interest, anyway with your rudeness razed, i guess its both of us not ascending.

razed1

30-03-2008, 05:04 PM

yea it not rudeness, what your reacting to is the sterility of the truth,

its like pouring dettol on a scabbng wound,

tssssssssss!!! oh it stings, but only for a second... :D

northern_light

30-03-2008, 06:24 PM

Hey pilgrim, you may be interested in a book by Lyall Watson, called 'Supernature' He discovered that plants have emotions and cant mow the lawn now, what have you got against plants eh? (sorry I couldnt resist, I still eat meat, I love the taste, I think we cant go wrong if we follow our native people, and they eat meat, wouldnt want to try a witchety grub though...)

I know that it has been proven that plants react to human and animal emotions and intentions, but not that they experience emotions themselves. If you want to, you can post the research and I will take a look at it. If you are referring to the chemical reactions of being cut, that's hardly any evidence of emotions or pain as we perceive it. They still posess consciousness though, and should be treated with love and respect, as with all of creation.

Animals have a limbic system virtually as big as humans, that means they feel very much the same emotions as we do. They also have the reptilian brain wich produces fear, plants does not posess a limbic system or a r-complex, nor do they have a central nerve system. Cows for example, get lonely, depressed and experience fear of death and injury just like us, they can also be joyful, compassionate and get excited over things. The only reason people are able to eat them with a clear conscience, is because they don't have as many muscles in their face, to be able to express their emotions the way we do. Nor can they talk our lanuage. :(

I have personally experienced the personality and love that animals posess. As a child growing up, I considered the cat in our family as one of my best friends, I also have had emotional ties with pigs and lambs at a farm near our family cabin. Wich ALL got sent off to the slaugther house at a young age. I feel like a major hypocrite if I were to acknowledge their feelings at one time and then kill them and eat their corpse at another time. Besides, I'm convinced that meat lowers your vibration and can alter your personality.

We as humans are past the biological struggle of second density, it's time to develop unconditional love and compassion. It's time to question the social norms wich have ruled our society for so long. Shouldn't we be the guardians of earth, rather than it's destroyers? Then why are we exploiting and disrespecting our animal friends like this? Just think of all the negative energy that is produced from the fear and depression in slaugtherhouses. It's like a continuing global, ritual sacrifice taking place.

By the way, I'm a veggie, and dare I say that I have a much greater respect for plants than any meat eater I know of. :D

I know you weren't trying to argue, but I just wanted to adress this common misconception. This post is in no way pointed at you.

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 06:34 PM

Hey pilgrim, you may be interested in a book by Lyall Watson, called 'Supernature'.
He discovered that plants have emotions and cant mow the lawn now, what have you got against plants eh? :)

I read 'Supernature' over 20 years ago. I thought it was quite good.

Plants, like all living things have consciousness, but the consciousness of humans & animals is on a much higher level than that of plants. Therefore animals have a greater capacity to experience suffering.

We MUST eat to survive! :rolleyes:
But, here is no need to kill animals! :mad:

Please look at my posts here:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22093&page=12
Post #115 onwards..

razed1

30-03-2008, 06:39 PM

and lets not forget teh fact that MOST of the plantlife we eat,

we eat the FRUIT of the plant, whether its a tomato, an eggplant, and apple or whatever

the plant survives.... its just the ripe fruitbody that is eaten

nature has a perfect system of processes all around us, it is just WE who have forgotten this golden path

and have strayed into these dark pitches,

and if everyperson who likes to consume cooked carcass flesh, not meat, cause meat is fresh, eaten RAW by all real carnivores/herbivores, IE. not cooked

if every one of these carcass eaters were to have to slaughter their own meal, skin it, gut it, clean it out.... drain all the blood, chop it up, etc etc

if most yuppies actually SAW where their delicious meat comes from.... youd have a lot more vegatarians OVERNIGHT

its just ppl are blind to the facts,

resevaz

30-03-2008, 06:40 PM

That link doesn't seem to work, pilgrim.

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 06:49 PM

....We as humans are past the biological struggle of second density, it's time to develop unconditional love and compassion. It's time to question the social norms wich have ruled our society for so long. Shouldn't we be the guardians of earth, rather than it's destroyers? Then why are we exploiting and disrespecting our animal friends like this? Just think of all the negative energy that is produced from the fear and depression in slaugtherhouses. It's like a continuing global, ritual sacrifice taking place....

Excellent post, northern_light. :)

The Illuminati promote the consumption of the corpses from their daily 'blood-ritual' slaughterhouse sacrifices to lower our vibrations, keep us numb to and to Karmically implicate us in their murderous crimes!

Anyone who speaks of "LOVE" (Infinite or otherwise) yet still continues to gorge themselves on the murdered corpses of innocent animals is a dumbed-down hypocrite without the intelligence to understand the Truth!.

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 06:51 PM

That link doesn't seem to work, pilgrim.
Thanks rezevaz. Link now fixed. Please look:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22093&page=12

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 07:04 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8xaecO-8R0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOriRnXqfGA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TxE3H6x6Yk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7UZrESTe4g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqByRbDN_2k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8aPNGS6DNg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCMXItKspNo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UcqTRDlDSY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDU63Qs8SAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xms2rRQxkcA

beldazar

30-03-2008, 08:49 PM

Hey northern lights, dont get me wrong. I worked with horses for many years and understood that they are just like you and me, each with their own different personalities. The woman who owned one of the stables would send some to slaughter now and again. They KNEW where they were going, it was sickening really as these creatures could have been sold on if she could be bothered. They were really stressed.
You say that by looking at the face, that not much emotion is seen. This is untrue, you can tell how they feel if you spend the time to get to know them. Its the same with any animal, sheep may look the same but a shepard can tell them apart. I keep fish and birds and I feel guilty that I keep them in an enclosure. As I have said somewhere on this forum, we cant hate the illuminati as they keep us prisoners too and look down at us as lower creatures.
Where do we draw the line? Fish have feelings, it was announced on the news several years ago that fish feel pain, I always thought that was bloody obvious! Plant life are known to shy away froim fire, its just so slow that it isnt seen.
Aborigines eat meat to survive, they say a prayer and an animal puts itself in a position to be sacrificed. No, Im not starving and yes, I could change my diet and I will do one day, Has anyone thought what the outcome would be if everyon

e turned veggie? Would animal overpopulation occur and disease spread to balance the equilibrium?
How do you feel about animals eating other animals?

Oh, and razed, yes you are right, if I had to kill and eat the animals myself, I wouldnt do it, full stop, I would eat grass instead. Thanks for promoting me to a yuppie by the way, Ive just gone up in the world :) I saw a doc about a pig slaughter house, I cried for days and swore I would never eat meat again, unfortunately it didnt last. Your attitude isnt going to persuade anyone to stop eating meat, quite the opposite in fact! But you Pilgrim, you may change me yet.

dangermouse

30-03-2008, 08:59 PM

think of all those poor plants you are murdering .. dont eat anything and die .. give me break with this meat murder nonsense .. Yes mass production of meat it bad. The PTB are making sure that the small farmer can not survive. Small farmers take care of their animals.
the vegan slant is completely biased ... its like saying The government uses the internet to spy on us so we should all stop using the internet.

If you choose not to eat meat fine .. but dont preach to the rest of us like you are all knowing

danster82

30-03-2008, 09:23 PM

Hi pilgrim I believe your Teacher is genuin (wise words). I can see why people would find it hard to believe it genuin with what appears to be idol worship but there is a diffrence between true worship and idol worship but those without the eyes to see or ears to hear would not beable to distinguish.

Although the teaching seems simple its one of the most profound, as through all the spiritual topics you could talk on the only thing that needs doing is a shift in identity to seeing yourself as, knowing yourself as spirit and not human being.

Most people who claim spirituality or whatever they want to call it, from my experience do not see themselves as a spiritual being in the slightest. The most obvious being Hindus, Christians and Muslims. When the Jehovah's knocked my door and started telling me about why Gods name as Jehovah has to be understood and they spouted scripture I asked what they beleived about the other side, do they talk with the other side are they being the christ on earth?.. They had no idea how to respond my questions probably seemed immature to them but this is because they see themselves as human beings so they will stay human beings.

this teaching is to shift your identity to that of spirit which is all that needs to be done.

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 09:30 PM

.. Why do people who follow Hare Krishna largely know nothing about the Illuminati?
I am speaking about the innocent young men and women I see walking around town every day.
Excellent question cheemflo! :)

Look at this post for the answer: :eek:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=319077&postcount=34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21PEzuwMSdY
The Illuminati are trying to destroy Prabhupada and his transcendental teachings because he is their greatest enemy and the only real threat to their Demoniac New World Order.
Prabhupada has been sent by Krishna [God] to this world to educate all people in the science of self and God realization.
He has come to fulfil the desire and complete the work of all the previous representatives, servants, and incarnations of God such as Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha etc.
Prabhupada's amazing miracle of translating the essence of the ancient Vedas to the people of the world and thus revealing the clear path to true spiritual realization, free from all religious dogma will bring about a Golden-Age of peace, enlightenment and equality for all on the this planet for 10,000 years!

pilgrim

30-03-2008, 09:35 PM

Hi pilgrim I believe your Teacher is genuin (wise words). I can see why people would find it hard to believe it genuin with what appears to be idol worship but there is a diffrence between true worship and idol worship but those without the eyes to see or ears to hear would not beable to distinguish.

Although the teaching seems simple its one of the most profound, as through all the spiritual topics you could talk on the only thing that needs doing is a shift in identity to seeing yourself as, knowing yourself as spirit and not human being.

Most people who claim spirituality or whatever they want to call it, from my experience do not see themselves as a spiritual being in the slightest. The most obvious being Hindus, Christians and Muslims. When the Jehovah's knocked my door and started telling me about why Gods name as Jehovah has to be understood and they spouted scripture I asked what they beleived about the other side, do they talk with the other side are they being the christ on earth?.. They had no idea how to respond my questions probably seemed immature to them but this is because they see themselves as human beings so they will stay human beings.
Excellent post danster82! :)

this teaching is to shift your identity to that of spirit which is all that needs to be done.
Yes, that is the only way to truly escape from "The Matrix"!
Our Spritual identity is our REAL, Eternal identity. ;)

pilgrim

31-03-2008, 12:02 AM

survivor1

31-03-2008, 12:18 AM

Excellent post danster82! :)

Yes, that is the only way to truly escape from "The Matrix"!
Our Spritual identity is our REAL, Eternal identity. ;)

Pilgrim, out of interest have you experienced our true nature?

pilgrim

31-03-2008, 12:26 AM

Pilgrim, out of interest have you experienced our true nature?
If i said that i was aware of my true nature 24/7, would you believe me? ;)

survivor1

31-03-2008, 12:29 AM

That would be very hard to achieve but not impossible, I would neither believe or disbelieve;)

i_am

31-03-2008, 12:48 AM

i want to kno why my posts deleted?!?!

i didnt engage in any kind of lude behaviour, or anything so what is the reason for the editing?

Hey razed1 settle down :)

I am trying to find the posts that you are referring to. There is nothing deleted from this thread as far as I can see. Only one by rossus that rossus deleted. Could it have been a similar thread?

Could it be this one?
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23160&page=2

razed1

31-03-2008, 12:54 AM

Hey razed1 settle down :)

I am trying to find the posts that you are referring to. There is nothing deleted from this thread as far as I can see. Only one by rossus that rossus deleted. Could it have been a similar thread?

Could it be this one?
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23160&page=2

oh yea haha

thanks, silly me!

i suck at them internets'

i deleted the other complainin posts in this thread :D

NEVERMIND, nothing to see here folks keep it movin!

i_am

31-03-2008, 12:57 AM

oh yea haha

thanks, silly me!

i suck at them internets'

i deleted the posts :D

You are welcome :)

pilgrim

31-03-2008, 01:41 AM

NEVERMIND, nothing to see here folks keep it movin!
Who are you? ... The Thread Police?
YOU may not be interested in, or able to understand the subject matter of this thread, but does not apply to EVERYONE. :)

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 12:55 AM

If i said that i was aware of my true nature 24/7, would you believe me?

That would be very hard to achieve but not impossible, I would neither believe or disbelieve;)
My point is:
Unless we know what our "True-Nature" is, how can we know if we or anybody else has achieved or experienced it?

amar7

01-04-2008, 01:17 AM

"the body is born. you are first a boy, then become a man.
when you are a man, then you are no longer a boy but you still exist.
so when your body dies, is it not logical you will get a new body?"

that sounds like a weak excuse for getting people to believe in reincarnation.
i mean, maybe reincarnation exist, and maybe "prahbuphada" is genuine (although i strongly doubt it)

You've read my mind, give me my thoughts back :mad:

:D

amar7

01-04-2008, 01:29 AM

watch that interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWjYzD_tX3Y
arogant midget.. look how he is talking to the moderator
and the moderator seems to be boodled

maybe that was a failing attempt of the illuminati to bring in the new religion.

Anyway, Osho is much better, he even admits to be a conman:
OSHO: I Wonder If This Could Be Love? [Funny]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v3OeszyaxE

I "feel" what that guy is talking more.. and that reporter seems to be genuine, he asks critical questions and even interrupts him!
that midget only made few good points and is not enjoyable and deep as osho

rossus

01-04-2008, 01:43 AM

yeah i also prefer Osho over Prabuphada,
though i'm not a Osho fan cause i feel he mixed Truth with Lies too much...

if you're into this meditation stuff, you might wanna check out "I am that" by nisargadatta,
which is the most pure teaching i've found regarding "Self-Realization" :p

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 01:45 AM

watch that interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWjYzD_tX3Y

Excellent video, amar7. Thanks for posting it! :)

amar7

01-04-2008, 02:05 AM

The "Krishna Conciousness movement" is nothing more than a sect for me.

To be honest I know nearly nothing about that movement, but from that video of him I was really shocked to see people worship a man, who is giving them less than half-truths and even bowing all together to him and to wave him air with these *dunnowhatthewordis*
still i cannot give final judgement about that strange guy by only watching 2 short clips but I definitly can say that my first impression of him that he seems to be a sect leader and the followers look somewhat paralyzed and weird

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 02:14 AM

To be honest I know nearly nothing about that movement...
So, please do some research before you make any more uninformed accusations! :rolleyes:

http://causelessmercy.com/

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16586

razed1

01-04-2008, 02:15 AM

Who are you? ... The Thread Police?
YOU may not be interested in, or able to understand the subject matter of this thread, but does not apply to EVERYONE. :)

i didnt mean it like that, i was just saying to not pay attention to my post

nothing wrong with your thread though

its a very good example for ppl to see how false gurus give a sense of false spirituality :)

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 02:27 AM

nothing wrong with your thread though
its a very good example for ppl to see how false gurus give a sense of false spirituality :)
Do you have ANY evidence to back-up your accusations that Srila Prabhupada was:

1: a "false guru"

2: teaching "false spirituality"

?

Please post it. We would really like to see it! :)

amar7

01-04-2008, 02:27 AM

http://causelessmercy.com/

I didnt make any accusation it was just an assertion of my first impression..
And I am not interested in more videos cuz I don't like that guys supercilious way of talking on that link he is calld Divine Grace
I am sorry but that's nothing for me, we have enough dogmas
Dont mean to hurt your religios believes, its jus myop.

razed1

01-04-2008, 02:32 AM

Do you have ANY evidence to back-up your accusations that Srila Prabhupada was:

1: a "false guru"

2: teaching "false spirituality"

?

Please post it. We would really like to see it! :)

theres nothing really i can post or link to that is proof of what your asking

but you have to understand, although we cannot for sure know/understand exactly what the god creator of the universe really IS....

but what i can tell you for sure is what this god creator of the universe is NOT...

and this srila p. is a cleverly disguised charlatan, i dont think he is a path to real enlightenment

heck the works of Alan Watts is more enlightening that this guy,

synergy777

01-04-2008, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by synergy777

i think the messiah/annoitment is an awakening in "every person" to the real multi dimensional nature of reality around them, and to their true spiritual nature.

as we are all spirits, then we all have the same potential.

in fact i would say when you awake, you realise that everybody is the same, they just don't know it yet.

people are constantly conditioned to devalue themselves, due to education/society/media/religion. they are not good enough, they are not good looking enough, not clever enough, not rich enough, they should dress in this way, talk in this manner etc.

people are always told what they are not

or what they should be.

people need to be told what they are, as in a spirit, with unlimited potential, that no man/woman is better or worse than they are, that they should be happy being themselves and celebrate/cherish their uniqueness.

the great teachers throughout time, came to remind us of what we really are,

the same as them.

we just didn't believe them

and the elite didn't want them to tell us.

http://www.hermes-press.com/evolution_next.htm

Evolution's Next Step

Organs come into being as a result of the need for specific organs (Rumi).

The human being's organism is producing a new complex of organs in response to such a need. *

By Norman D. Livergood

"When a population becomes distracted by trivia, when cultural life is redefined as a perpetual round of entertainments, when serious public conversation becomes a form of baby-talk, when, in short, a people become an audience and their public business a vaudeville act, then a nation finds itself at risk: culture-death is a clear possibility."

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

A violence-based society attempts to destroy all spiritual values: art, compassion, intelligence, creativity, community. A sub-human cabal is forcing people to concentrate our machine-development capabilities on building weapons of destruction. That branch of human evolution has reached the point of no return--leading to the ultimate devolution of humankind. The twentieth century was the bloodiest in human history.

The Next Step in Human Evolution: the Supra-Human

Though ordinary humans are rapidly losing the ability to understand reality, a small contemporary group is accessing supernormal knowledge through portals into Higher Consciousness. They are making knowledge available about what is actually going on in the world--beyond what the demonic cabal's media lies say is going on. And, of critical importance, they are preserving higher knowledge in books and Web sites which will be available when conditions have degenerated to the point where a rudely awakened mass of people will suddenly say: "How can we get out of this intolerable situation? What knowledge do we need to re-build a sane and progressive world?"

Mankind's spiritual--and physical--evolution has been guided by seers such as Hermes, Plato, Jesus, Rumi, Francis of Assisi, and Shakespeare.

"When goodness grows weak,
When evil increases,
I make myself a body.

In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sin of the sinner,
To establish righteousness."

Bhagavad Gita

This new "type" of person has discovered that humans are--in their essence--expressions of the One Higher Being. The being of humankind is a manifestation of the Universal Being and our evolution is the unfolding and realization of this Everlasting Spirit. Since all humans "live and move and have our being" in this Eternal Mind, we evolve by gaining a progressively creative and discerning understanding of this Universal Spirit.

see you and i are spirits, we have all the same potential.

amar7

01-04-2008, 02:42 AM

I have to agree on that point.. I mean I could devastate that TV interview of what he talks. It is mostly obvious stuff or nonsense..

"that the animoulls..cannout underrstand whouat is god" :rolleyes:

1:37 oh we keep ourselfes very clean thats it and ooew we are against long hair, I assume it is more of a manipulation technique

amar7

01-04-2008, 02:44 AM

Are you a missionary, pilgrim? Just curious..

amar7

01-04-2008, 02:46 AM

There are too many on this forum, who wish for us all to remain in darkness.
:)

I strongly doubt that rossus is one of these types

amar7

01-04-2008, 02:52 AM

Don't bother answering, i'm not interested.
Pretty narrow-minded, ignorant and maybe even brainwashed . .

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 02:52 AM

theres nothing really i can post or link to that is proof of what your asking
Thought so. :rolleyes: (You must be embarrased, eh?)

but you have to understand, although we cannot for sure know/understand exactly what the god creator of the universe really IS....
but what i can tell you for sure is what this god creator of the universe is NOT...
OK, tell us then, we would really like to know. :)

and this srila p. is a cleverly disguised charlatan, i dont think he is a path to real enlightenment
Please provide EVIDENCE that Srila Prabhupada is "a cleverly disguised charlatan"!

heck the works of Alan Watts is more enlightening that this guy,
http://www.websophist.com/Laughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gif

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 02:58 AM

Pretty narrow-minded, ignorant and maybe even brainwashed . .
Yes, i know you are, amar7. You're posts on this thread are proof of it. :rolleyes:

razed1

01-04-2008, 03:04 AM

:rolleyes:
Thought so. :rolleyes: (You must be embarrased, eh?)

why do you say this?? i hope you are not under the impression that im here to impress you or other ppl?? im just speaking the truth...

OK, tell us then, we would really like to know. :)

well since youre into eastern mysticism, ill tell you that "those who speak of it, know it NOT, and those who know it, speak of it not

Please provide EVIDENCE that Srila Prabhupada is "a cleverly disguised charlatan"!

you just have to see the signs of how this person was brought to the americas, and ended up having a following like he did, up to this day, there are white ppl runnin around shaving their heads, thinking they have the cutting edge on all this 'god' BUSINE$$

http://www.websophist.com/Laughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gif

what so funny? have you ever seen a video or listened to an alan watts lecture??

see above :rolleyes:

amar7

01-04-2008, 03:13 AM

I just wanted to write "who sits in a glashouse. ..." but nevermind pilgrim, it's alright, I won't disagree with you anymore, so you won't get offended
the discussion here has got a bit tense anyway, so lets have a party with that pilgrim guy
http://mobilecentral.ninemsn.com.au/img/Emoticons/Emo_party.jpg

http://bp2.blogger.com/_Z66j-UYALcg/RsSsbJqweOI/AAAAAAAAAE8/xHDSJYLbSXg/s400/GONNABALRIGHT.jpg

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 03:29 AM

..im just speaking the truth...

But, you have provided NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to prove that the accusations you have made are true!

well since youre into eastern mysticism, ill tell you that "those who speak of it, know it NOT, and those who know it, speak of it not

I'm not into "eastern mysticism".

you just have to see the signs of how this person (Prabhupada) was brought to the americas, and ended up having a following like he did, up to this day, there are white ppl runnin around shaving their heads, thinking they have the cutting edge on all this 'god' BUSINE$$

Have you ANY PROOF that Prabhupada was "brought to the americas"?
If so, please provide it! I have studied his life and teachings for 20 years, what you suggest is simply not true!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well-Documented FACTS about Srila Prabhupada

On the order of his spiritual master, His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda began translating and writing Vedic literature in the English language to bring the message of Lord Krsna to the Western countries. After decades of struggle in India, he came to the West and started the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Later on he created the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, to publish his writings and recordings of his lectures, conversations, etc. The VedaBase has been created so that this great treasurehouse of knowledge may be preserved and propagated and so that all may take advantage of the wisdom and association of the pure devotee of Lord Krishna.
http://vedabase.net/

His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda appeared in this world in 1896 in Calcutta, India. He first met his spiritual master, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī, in Calcutta in 1922. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, a prominent religious scholar and the founder of sixty-four Gaudīya Mathas (Vedic institutes), liked this educated young man and convinced him to dedicate his life to teaching Vedic knowledge. Śrīla Prabhupāda became his student, and eleven years later (1933) at Allahabad he became his formally initiated disciple.

At their first meeting, in 1922, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Thākura requested Śrīla Prabhupāda to broadcast Vedic knowledge through the English language. In the years that followed, Śrīla Prabhupāda wrote a commentary on the Bhagavad-gītā, assisted the Gaudīya Matha in its work and, in 1944, started Back to Godhead, an English fortnightly magazine. Maintaining the publication was a struggle. Single-handedly, Śrīla Prabhupāda edited it, typed the manuscripts, checked the galley proofs, and even distributed the individual copies. Once begun, the magazine never stopped; it is now being continued by his disciples in the West and is published in over thirty languages.

Recognizing Śrīla Prabhupāda’s philosophical learning and devotion, the Gaudīya Vaisnava Society honored him in 1947 with the title “Bhaktivedanta.” In 1950, at the age of fifty-four, Śrīla Prabhupāda retired from married life, adopting the vānaprastha (retired) order to devote more time to his studies and writing. Śrīla Prabhupāda traveled to the holy city of Vrndāvana, where he lived in very humble circumstances in the historic medieval temple of Rādhā-Dāmodara. There he engaged for several years in deep study and writing. He accepted the renounced order of life (sannyāsa) in 1959. At Rādhā-Dāmodara, Śrīla Prabhupāda began work on his life’s masterpiece: a multivolume annotated translation of the eighteen-thousand-verse Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (Bhāgavata Purāna). He also wrote Easy Journey to Other Planets.

http://www.radhadamodarmandir.com/srila-prabhupada-radha-damodar-temple

After publishing three volumes of the Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda came to the United States of America, in September 1965, to fulfill the mission of his spiritual master. Subsequently, His Divine Grace wrote more than sixty volumes of authoritative annotated translations and summary studies of the philosophical and religious classics of India.

When he first arrived by freighter in New York City, Śrīla Prabhupāda was practically penniless. Only after almost a year of great difficulty did he establish the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, in July of 1966. Before his passing away on November 14, 1977, he guided the Society and saw it grow to a worldwide confederation of more than one hundred āśramas, schools, temples, institutes and farm communities.

Śrīla Prabhupāda’s most significant contribution, however, is his books. Highly respected by the academic community for their authority, depth and clarity, they are used as standard textbooks in numerous college courses. His writings have been translated into over fifty languages. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, established in 1972 to publish the works of His Divine Grace, has thus become the world’s largest publisher of books in the field of Indian religion and philosophy.

In just twelve years, in spite of his advanced age, Śrīla Prabhupāda circled the globe fourteen times on lecture tours that took him to six continents. In spite of such a vigorous schedule, Śrīla Prabhupāda continued to write prolifically. His writings constitute a veritable library of Vedic philosophy, religion, literature and culture.

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 03:45 AM

..nevermind pilgrim, it's alright, I won't disagree with you anymore, so you won't get offended.
I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me. :)
What i do have a problem with is people who make a stream of uninformed, offensive accusations, but can provide NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to back them up! :mad:

amar7

01-04-2008, 12:48 PM

Actually I think there is no evidence for what that guy is talking about (like reincarnation) and he is saying many things that don't make sense or are just obvious and he does not go deep as Osho.
And I am not dull, probably you are

amar7

01-04-2008, 01:18 PM

Great, the mods started to do some arranging by moving stuff into the right place.
But still General is overloaded..I've been igonred on that, I'm going to push the thread again

rossus

01-04-2008, 01:45 PM

Do you have ANY evidence to back-up your accusations that Srila Prabhupada was:

1: a "false guru"

2: teaching "false spirituality"

?

Please post it. We would really like to see it! :)
do you have any evidence that he was not teaching false spirituality ?

because when i earlier asked for that,
all you have posted is links to big pages like the Veda's,

which just contain information which is not backed up by fact..
i don't see this as proof.

it seems hare krishna is something you can either blindly believe as fact,
blindly reject... or sort of "leave open for interpreation".

hare krishna's to me seem to blindly believe their stuff as fact,
in such a way like Mormons believe that "The Latter Day Saints" is the only true movement..;
in such a way like Jehova's believe that theirs is,
in such a way like Muslims believe that theirs is.

Maybe all of these religions say things which are unprovable by fact,
but are really true... for this reason i'm not saying Hare Krishna or Islam or other religions is complete bollox.

i've no problem admitting that i dont know
but if truth is dear to you, its very important to question your own beliefs...
and if you believe in things which have not been proved as fact,
then the chance is big you have been lied to. (by others, or by yourself)

also it's important, to question the things which have been proved as fact...
because maybe you agreed to soon to accept something as proof ;)

danster82

01-04-2008, 01:59 PM

Pilgrim stop defending your mental positions, if you know somthing to be true theres no conflict or need to defend it, let people chose and reject what they will and be done with it. Dont engage in the dualistic battle.

heres a message from my teacher that may fit in well with this thread.

http://www.askrealjesus.com/F_LEASTKNOW/findteacher.html

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 06:00 PM

There is plenty of evidence to support Reincarnation.
(For those that can be bothered to do some research!). :)

Here's a starting point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWwzFwUOxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5965wcH2Kx0

Here is a playlist of 10 more short videos which provide more evidence:
PLEASE SEE: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=72CD9408DFF067FF

http://www.salagram.net/changing-bodies2.jpg

In Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead teaches:

As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.

The nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.

Know that which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul.

Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction.

He who thinks that the living entity is the slayer or that he is slain, does not understand. One who is in knowledge knows that the self slays not nor is slain.

For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

How can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, unborn, eternal and immutable, kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?

As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.

The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable, immutable, and unchangeable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body.

If, however, you think that the soul is perpetually born and always dies, still you still have no reason to lament.

For one who has taken his birth, death is certain; and for one who is dead, birth is certain. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament.

All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when they are annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?

Some look at the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all.

O descendant of Bharata, he who dwells in the body is eternal and can never be slain.

More Here: http://causelessmercy.com/Bg2.1.htm

rossus

01-04-2008, 07:59 PM

you "pleasantly" ignore the fact that the memories these kids have from their socalled past-lives,

when their memories are verified by digging up for the "person they used to be",
sometimes they are "spot-on"...though other times they are totally off the mark!

while i admit that something seems to be going on,
this does not necessarily have to be reincarnation...

and at least not reincarnation in the way that is being taught by "hare krishna".
what is also alarming, is that these video's you show here are sort of "promoting" reincarnation...
the people speaking in it are all from the same side... the so called "believers",

except for one really closeminded professor which they seemed to have put in there to make it seem like science doesn't have a clue.
last but not least, these "documentaries" have been created by and aired on ABC and other mainstream television channels...

so i can't help but notice that they might actually be spoonfeeding us the reincarnation-belief...
it is the same thing they're doing with 2012, aliens, UFO's, wicca, etc.

so my conclusion is:
i don't know what exactly is going on with these kids,
- have their parents signed them up to some kind of PSYOP
- are their memories their own memories... or do they tune into memories of someone else through some kind of "universal mind" (akashic records)
- maybe some kind of "entity" is feeding them lies, as is often the case with channeling.

there are many other possibilities than the typical reincarnation belief as is pushed by hare krishna,
but it seems you see only one possibility.

as if you have already made up your mind and a little bit of vague information is already good enough
for you to consider your previously installed beliefs verified.

this "mental phenemon" is often exploited and used as a brainwashing technique by organisations with intentions of less benevolent nature.

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 08:19 PM

last but not least, these video's have been created by and aired on ABC and other mainstream television channels...
So, you wont accept any evidence from the ancient Vedic teachings, etc.
And..
you won't accept any evidence that has been shown on mainstream media (which i posted only as a STARTING-POINT for research, there are also many books, reports, etc.).
And..
you won't accept some children's vivid & verifiable memories of previous lives.
Etc.

It seems that you will have to wait until you "die" before you will have your "evidence".
Sadly, by then, it will be too late to do anything about it. :(

rossus

01-04-2008, 08:34 PM

So, you wont accept any evidence from the ancient Vedic teachings, etc.
And..
you won't accept any evidence that has been shown on mainstream media (which i posted only as a STARTING-POINT for research, there are also many books, reports, etc.).
And..
you won't accept some children's vivid & verifiable memories of previous lives.
Etc.
no mate.
i will gladly accept evidence,
but none of what you have posted so far is clear evidence for the existence of reincarnation as is being promoted by Hare Krishna.

it's not because there is smoke out there in the distance, that i have to blindly accept the spoonfed belief that someone set fire to my house...
simply because there are many other possibilities.

maybe someone else's house, maybe it's an accidental fire, maybe it's not a house but a pile of old-tires being used in some kind of protest, or whatever.
the vague information out there that is being used by believers of reincarnation to support the theory,

is not proof for the theory being correct. :)
Sadly, by then, it will be too late to do anything about it. :(
do my eyes deceive me, or is this the old "it will be too late" argument which is employed not only by Hare Krishna
but by almost all other religions that their religion is the only true religion...

to scare people into becoming followers.

adramelech

01-04-2008, 08:40 PM

You know rossus, you seem really obsessed with logically impossible absolute "evidence" for someone who says stuff like this:

so i can't help but notice that they might actually be spoonfeeding us the reincarnation-belief...
it is the same thing they're doing with 2012, aliens, UFO's, wicca, etc.

Who are "they"? Show me "evidence" for this spoon-feeding. Please be very specific.

- maybe some kind of "entity" is feeding them lies, as is often the case with channeling.

there are many other possibilities than the typical reincarnation belief as is pushed by hare krishna,
but it seems you see only one possibility.

as if you have already made up your mind and a little bit of vague information is already good enough
for you to consider your previously installed beliefs verified.

this "mental phenemon" is often exploited and used as a brainwashing technique by organisations with intentions of less benevolent nature.

Show me "evidence" of channeling and also entities feeding lies to people who are channeling. Rock solid, scientific evidence please - I'm sure you have this as you are so obsessed with holding others to the same standard. Also name all of the "organizations" which use this method of "brainwashing".

rossus

01-04-2008, 09:10 PM

Who are "they"? Show me "evidence" for this spoon-feeding. Please be very specific.
it's obvious that "2012, aliens, UFO's, wicca" is heavily pushed by the media because it's all over;
if you can't see it then i can't use my eyes for you.

it's been proven before that mainstream media is largely in the hands of a select few
who refuse to air or write about true-information and only publish the lies that feed their own interests.
Show me "evidence" of channeling and also entities feeding lies to people who are channeling. Rock solid, scientific evidence please - I'm sure you have this as you are so obsessed with holding others to the same standard. Also name all of the "organizations" which use this method of "brainwashing".
i cannot name organizations which use this "method" of brainwashing,
because for a minute there i just assumed they exist...

an assumption which to me does not seem that wild,
as it used all the time...

Darwin's theory of evolution for example has been pushed so much,
that most of the "westernized" masses accept it as fact while it is just a theory.

In this case the most common examples used are,
the similarities in genes that apes and humans share,
and the way organisms can evolve...

to suffice as "proof" for most people who already believed in evolution before they had any proof, simply because "it sounds right".
but why is it that other people clearly see that the facts gathered are not enough to rule out other possibilities and accept the "Evolution-Theory" as the only way?

this is just one example of how the beliefs of the masses is being shaped,
but i assume there are many other examples to be found.

about the "entities",
i am not an expert on the subject of this matter but it is obvious that the stories that have been "channeled" by so called Pleiadians or whatever,
are highly incompatible with eachother...

which makes it clear as day that many of the entities are either lying,
or the so called-channeller is lying.... or something else.

but as i said, i dont know what the real and final deal is with these entities... just as i don't know about reincarnation...
but i do know that their is often a big lack of common sense, skepticism and openmindedness in the people who are dealing with channelers and entities themselves,

as they simply believe what is being told to them as a fact without having seen clear proof.

i know that with subjects as these it's very hard or even impossible to give "rock solid scientific evidence",
but it's not hard at all to see when there are other possibilities than the "spoonfed explanations" or not

i am aware that many people "prefer" (?) to believe in things which have not really been proven,
and so become Christians, Muslims, Hare Krishna's or whatever...

although i respect these people's beliefs,
occasionally i like to highlight the "evidence-problem" in public...

not to make the "believers" look bad, feel bad
or even change their beliefs (cause often that's kind of impossible anyway),
but only to show the people who have not yet made up their minds... how easy it is to fall for a belieftrap.

i guess that i have now said everything that i could say,
no use in continuing to repeat myself so i won't be posting here any longer.

beldazar

01-04-2008, 09:13 PM

Just to jump in here, I for one believe in reincarnation, it seems that everything is cyclical so why not our lives? You can only remember a dream within a few minutes of waking, and if you dont hold on to it you may forget it. (sometimes during the day bits may come through tho) so, if you remembered a past life in your early years, how would you be able to retell the story to others before you can talk? My sisters little girl would always speak of her 'other mum and dad', which upset my sis quite a bit, she obviously held onto the memory until she spoke. I was open about past lives until I had a reiki session and I had no idea the woman also did past lives, what she told me shocked me to the core, I certainly wouldnt have reacted that way if what she said didnt resonate.

pilgrim

01-04-2008, 09:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RRs7fXjs_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qXmgUexYo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpGaYcZvUxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2yDx4fyeXQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62EGSLn4FOs

adramelech

01-04-2008, 10:35 PM

to suffice as "proof" for most people who already believed in evolution before they had any proof, simply because "it sounds right".
but why is it that other people clearly see that the facts gathered are not enough to rule out other possibilities and accept the "Evolution-Theory" as the only way?

i know that with subjects as these it's very hard or even impossible to give "rock solid scientific evidence",
but it's not hard at all to see when there are other possibilities than the "spoonfed explanations" or not

If your only point is that no evidence is truly strong enough to completely rule out all other possibilities, it's a valid one, but I don't see why you would feel the need to so strongly attack the beliefs of others when you clearly have ideas of your own which are not necessarily backed by enormous amounts of evidence. You should be able to see the inherent flaw in demanding absolute proof.

As a sidenote (not to start this thread into an evolution debate), a scientific theory is completely different from a "theory" as used in common conversation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory#Science

The "evolution is just a theory" argument is usually utilized by Creationists with little to no understanding of the scientific method.

rossus

01-04-2008, 11:12 PM

The "evolution is just a theory" argument is usually utilized by Creationists with little to no understanding of the scientific method.
i'm not a creationist, but i have little to no understanding :p
If your only point is that no evidence is truly strong enough to completely rule out all other possibilities, it's a valid one
that may have been my only point, if there was one.
when you clearly have ideas of your own which are not necessarily backed by enormous amounts of evidence.
well sometimes i say things which i don't really mean,
but i don't have a lot of beliefs if any at all.

my mouth speaks and my fingers type,
but i don't really know anything. :o
You should be able to see the inherent flaw in demanding absolute proof.
in one way it can be seen as a flaw,
but when practiced for oneself

it can be an enormous strength for seperating the true from the false... which sets us free.
blind belief in something which is false imprisons or at least limits... or something like that.

http://www.kankakeeregatta.com/images/flagWhite.gif

pilgrim

02-04-2008, 07:32 PM

that argument is such a cheap one, and its like the last bastion of carcass eaters
if you cannot tell the the difference between a plant and a MAMMAL, then what good is 'ascension' for such a dull mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZirmJTTh_A
"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."
Pythagoras, mathematician

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist

"To a man whose mind is free there is something even more intolerable in the sufferings of animals than in the sufferings of man. For with the latter it is at least admitted that suffering is evil and that the man who causes it is a criminal. But thousands of animals are uselessly butchered every day without a shadow of remorse. If any man were to refer to it, he would be thought ridiculous. And that is the unpardonable crime."
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"If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth -- beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals -- would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"
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"What is it that should trace the insuperable line? ...The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"
Jeremy Bentham, philosopher

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