what masons pay to join

[mwgdrwg]

when a freemason joins he pays the organisation one years salary.

watch all the masons follow this with firece denials, and attacks on my integrity , that i do not know what i am talking about, but this is the truth.

all you will get as a response to this by the masons is denial, that i am lying.

i shall leave it there

[finegreen]

Where did you come about this info? I can tell you not in the U.S does this happen because I don't have that kind of money to pay.


I am not a rich man.

[motox]

bend over backwards and lift the apron

[finegreen]

well i will be a realist and say I don't think anyone would pay a year salary for that. lol

[thelonious]

when a freemason joins he pays the organisation one years salary.



Another lie, and a pretty stupid one at that. Who the hell's going to give anyone a year's salary? :rolleyes:

When a man joins the Masons, he pays an initiation fee. My Lodge charges $30 USA per degree, which means it costs $90 in fees to become a Master Mason of the Third Degree. After this, membership dues are $40 per year.

If someone joins the Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shriners, or other Masonic bodies, there are additional fees and dues, but they are much less expensive than civic clubs and other organizations. I'm a member of practically all the Masonic organizations, and what I pay per year to all of them combined is less than one week's salary, much less a year's.

It's also important to point out here that Freemasonry is a non-profit fraternal organization, and subsists solely on membership dues, donations, and fundraisers.

[motox]

well i will be a realist and say I don't think anyone would pay a year salary for that. lol

not what your missus said last night:D:D

[kblood]

when a freemason joins he pays the organisation one years salary.

watch all the masons follow this with firece denials, and attacks on my integrity , that i do now know what i am talking about, but this is the truth.
i shall leave it there

Yea, I knew you believed the answer was something like this, but that is obviously not true, since it is different for each lodge what they have to pay. Maybe this is what they pay at some lodges, but certainly not everywhere in the world.

Now, where did you get such information that is so off the mark?

[jacob sladder]

Well, if they do - so what? Whats your point?? Surely it's up to them what they do with their own money, after all they've earned it.

AND - what happens if someone was to join who is on the dole or retired? Do they give up their dole money or pension?

How do you come by such information if it's all so secret?

[kblood]

when a freemason joins he pays the organisation one years salary.

watch all the masons follow this with firece denials, and attacks on my integrity , that i do not know what i am talking about, but this is the truth.

all you will get as a response to this by the masons is denial, that i am lying.

i shall leave it there

Problem is, you arent lying, or at least do not know that you are. It should be obvious to anyone that it is impossible to pay a years sallery just to join a social club. That certainly is some expensive meals :rolleyes:

[kblood]

Well, if they do - so what? Whats your point?? Surely it's up to them what they do with their own money, after all they've earned it.

AND - what happens if someone was to join who is on the dole or retired? Do they give up their dole money or pension?

How do you come by such information if it's all so secret?

mwgdrwg is under the delusion that all Masons pays a year sallery to join, and with the hundreds of people that joins each year, that sure ought to make them very wealthy, and a secret like that quite hard to keep secret. Ive read no such thing, and why would masons keep this secret and none of the rest?

Well, at least you shared what you "know" they all had to pay to join mwgdrwg. It is however quite sad that you cannot see that it would be impossible for people with family and everything to pay such a price. Its financially impossible.

Im guessing you havent taken a few years studying economics? If so, you should sure them and get your money back :D

[finegreen]

not what your missus said last night:D:D

wow now misses jokes. what next mom jokes to. I am not impressed.


Heres something for you guys to think of. I am going on a day trip with the Aladdin shriners next week to see the reds play. Guess how much it costs.

$14.00 . Why so cheap. Probably because I apparently paid a years salary.

[motox]

Problem is, you arent lying, or at least do not know that you are. It should be obvious to anyone that it is impossible to pay a years sallery just to join a social club. That certainly is some expensive meals :rolleyes:

probably do what the politicians do claim it back in tax :D:D just a thought there's that many involved in all that gang. its one big club and Guess what you ain't in it:p

[chestnutlodge]

when a freemason joins he pays the organisation one years salary.

watch all the masons follow this with firece denials, and attacks on my integrity , that i do not know what i am talking about, but this is the truth.

all you will get as a response to this by the masons is denial, that i am lying.

i shall leave it there

At last we get to the point. Why it took so long is beyond me.

The cost of joining has been stated previously and is nowehere near a years salary. Why would somebody wish to join an organisation for such a commitment? What is there to gain? My wife would not have been happy if I had said joining the masons now and we will live on bread and water for a year, hope thats ok!

I will not attack your integrity. But will ask that as you have stated this to be the truth what is the source of this fact. Why are you sure that you are correct?

You will have denials from masons simply because it is incorrect.

[motox]

wow now misses jokes. what next mom jokes to. I am not impressed.


Heres something for you guys to think of. I am going on a day trip with the Aladdin shriners next week to see the reds play. Guess how much it costs.

$14.00 . Why so cheap. Probably because I apparently paid a years salary.

no your mom. said get a recite and claim the tax back::D:D

[chestnutlodge]

probably do what the politicians do claim it back in tax :D:D just a thought there's that many involved in all that gang. its one big club and Guess what you ain't in it:p

Not quite up with the UK taxation system as to what can and can not be claimed for then?

Having paid this large fee, do you not think that there would be nobody leaving masonry, as they would need to get their moneys worth?

Or those that do leave or have been approached and have declined would have said

"Do you know how much money they wanted from me?"

Never heard it, never seen it and I have been a freemason for many years and have seen and heard just about every accusation.

[finegreen]

In ohio membership is declining. If you had to pay a years salary we would have fewer members.

[meridiansun]

when a freemason joins he pays the organisation one years salary.

watch all the masons follow this with firece denials, and attacks on my integrity , that i do not know what i am talking about, but this is the truth.

all you will get as a response to this by the masons is denial, that i am lying.

i shall leave it there
There's really only one response to this.

Ha
Ha ha
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Well, at least we can move on now... :rolleyes:

[the guy in pink]

when a freemason joins he pays the organisation one years salary.


One is not a Masonic number - 3 is and apparently 33 is very masonic.
It's 33 years salary stupid.

[perry_mason]

Where the hell would I, or anyone be able to acquire the liquid funds to pay a years salary in one day? Why would I want to? Bloody daft. :mad:

[mwgdrwg]

i am confident in my statement

why have none of you mentioned taking out a loan yet because thats what most masons do.

[finegreen]

And if we did why would it be a big secret.

[perry_mason]

i am confident in my statement

why have none of you mentioned taking out a loan yet because thats what most masons do.

Because when I joined I had and still don't have anything that could be borrowed against. No house. No car. No push bike. If I asked family members they would have rightly told me where to go.

Even if I did have to pay a years wages I would have told you earlier if this was the truth.

[chestnutlodge]

i am confident in my statement

why have none of you mentioned taking out a loan yet because thats what most masons do.

If you are confident in your statement then please name and show your source.

I expect masons do take out loans, but not to pay any masonic fees. Still if you are correct then the credit crunch should put pay to any new members unless they are cash rich.

[icke and ham]

megdrwg, I dont follow you. I was expecting a real figure, mbut how can any of them pay a whol years salary? does that cover them for life membership and gets paid over years?

Come on i'm as suspicious of them as you but we have to put reasonable argueaments. I'm not calling you a liar, but did a mason tell you that? ;)

If so you shoudnt believe there lies. i think that cost is impossibel.

[kweli]

i am confident in my statement

why have none of you mentioned taking out a loan yet because thats what most masons do.

I'm not having a go at you, but you really do need to back up what you're saying if you want to be taken seriously.

[mwgdrwg]

I'm not having a go at you, but you really do need to back up what you're saying if you want to be taken seriously.

im not interested in whether people chose to take me seriously or not
if you are that interested in wether i am being truthful or dishonest
do the research

[kweli]

im not interested in whether people chose to take me seriously or not
if you are that interested in wether i am being truthful or dishonest
do the research

Ok, have it your way.

[chestnutlodge]

im not interested in whether people chose to take me seriously or not
if you are that interested in wether i am being truthful or dishonest
do the research


Theres no research on it because you have posted a pack of fabricated crap.

What a cop out, do your research! Show us your research.

You are correct in one thing, nobody is taking you seriously.

[perry_mason]

I can't believe it took you this long to make up somthing as feeble as this. All that stalling and BS and you still can't back anything up or even provide a cogent theory.

[mwgdrwg]

do i give a fuck what masons think?
hahahahaha you are really fucking deluded yeah

[perry_mason]

do i give a fuck what masons think?
hahahahaha you are really fucking deluded yeah

Evidently you do, as you continue to persist with the notion that we pay a years wages to join.
You must care that we don't agree with you otherwise you wouldn't still be trying to push your BS theories.

[chestnutlodge]

do i give a fuck what masons think?
hahahahaha you are really fucking deluded yeah

Unsurprisingly we now must come to the conclusion without a shred of evidence that the masons and it would appear the rest of your fellow formites dont give a damn about what you think.

[mwgdrwg]

can you please stop private messaging me with vulgar and racist language chestnut
thankyou

[thelonious]

I don't think that guy has any credibility left after this thread. Anybody who thinks that people are going to take out a loan equal to a year's wages to join a fraternal order is already a few french fries short of a happy meal.

[damagedbrainn]

Who the hell would join if you had to pay a whole years salary? Even Scientologists aren't that stupid. And whose salary? Not everybody works the same occupation or gets paid the same salary.

Anyway, I've known enough Masons to be certain that that's absurd...As far as I can tell, they really don't pay much money at all, except perhaps for the little optional accessories (which some take to embarrassing proportions). More than your average Church, but less than your average cult.

[mwgdrwg]

hahaha youre a mason talking about credibility, thats so funny.

notice how they have denied what i said with every fibre of their being and attacked my integrity.
which is exactly what i said their strategy would be

[kblood]

hahaha youre a mason talking about credibility, thats so funny.

notice how they have denied what i said with every fibre of their being and attacked my integrity.
which is exactly what i said their strategy would be

Which is exactly what you have done yourself as well... its a shame to see how selfabsorbed you are. You arent seeking truth, just following a belief in masons must be lying and evil, and dont even care wether you are on the right track or not.

Even if you are right, you certainly are shooting yourself in the foot with a bazooka trying to prove it. I would like to disprove what these masons are saying as much as anyone, but I cant. It wont make me go dramaqueen like you and treat them badly for unjustified reasons.

You expect to call people you dont know liars and evil in their face (sort of), and expect them to let it go at that?

Im responding to you in hope of getting you to see that you have been mistaken and behaved in a bad way. Hopefully you will tread more carefully next time instead of ruining your own credibility like this and then start dramatise it to cover it up.

Of course the moderators of this forum let you continously call people liars and freaks and what else you feel like calling them, without even justifying it in any way. Show some moderation, and think things through before making 20 posts based on nothing you can prove in any way. Then you might get some credibility back.

[mike martin]

when a freemason joins he pays the organisation one years salary.

watch all the masons follow this with firece denials, and attacks on my integrity , that i do not know what i am talking about, but this is the truth.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha aha ha ha aha coff ha haha ha ha ha ha aha ahaha pnmcoff coff splutter.

The truth? ? In an episode of Monty Python's Flying Circus, maybe.

Ha ha ha ah aha ha ahhha ahhha ahhha

Oh hang on, no come to think of it I was earning £150 a year when I joined, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh

all you will get as a response to this by the masons is denial, that i am lying.

i shall leave it there

Denial? most definitely, cos it is not true.

Claiming you're lying? Oh no my little cupcake, you're not lying, I honestly think that you believe it.

Oh where do you get this stuff?? I'll have a pint of what you're drinking.

Mike

[mwgdrwg]

and now to produce my evidence to prove that every single one of these masons is a liar and not to be trusted.

[mike martin]

and now to produce my evidence to prove that every single one of these masons is a liar and not to be trusted.

Eeeeek, nobody expected the Spanish inquisition
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[stealth]

and now to produce my evidence to prove that every single one of these masons is a liar and not to be trusted.

BIG drum roll please.:rolleyes:

[kblood]

BIG drum roll please.:rolleyes:

yawn... instead of holding my breath, I think I will just go to bed. I hope it will be good evidence :)

[stealth]

Why Are We Waiting.......whhhhy Are We Waiting.....:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d

[caversham_uk]

Hi Guys,

I am a mason and my yearly subs are about 80 quid. I pay for meals which are 7 quid a pop plus drinks and charity donations of probably 2-3 quid a meeting. Not a cheap hobby but not expensive. Before I joined I was worried that I had to give 10% of my salary a year, this is another myth.

I would ask some masons if you want to find the real cost. You will be very dissapointed if you think big bucks are changing hands.

Cheers

Tom

[icke and ham]

Mwgdrwg, I think you have failed us. I was expecting an incite to the world of freemasonary, but youve missed a chance and they are making fun of you. if you know where you found out there finances let us all know and we will shout it to the world. i know they swear to keep eachothers secrets and theres something about murder in that.

Care to "enliten" us, mike?

aslo please bring up your proof mwgdrgw, we need some help here!

[kblood]

Mwgdrwg, I think you have failed us. I was expecting an incite to the world of freemasonary, but youve missed a chance and they are making fun of you. if you know where you found out there finances let us all know and we will shout it to the world. i know they swear to keep eachothers secrets and theres something about murder in that.

Care to "enliten" us, mike?

aslo please bring up your proof mwgdrgw, we need some help here!

He failed. He thought they pay a years sallery to join. So I guess they would have to quit their job for a month to be able to join :) Then pay a year of that sallery ;)

We have others on this forum with actual freemason secrets, so lets just see what response will come to those :) Problem is that the secrets arent even the same in all lodges.

[bobjob123]

the ? you ask about how much you have to pay to be a mason can be anything from #10,000 to #40,000pounds it all depends on how far you want to look for knowledge ?:) I was a temple master for 25yrs also a chapter master for rosecrusian Order the high you can reach in masonry is 33 degrees . I hope that would answer your ? please if you would like to know more about the masonry I will only be to happy to tell you any thing you want to know about them I want also to say hello to you all:)

[the guy in pink]

the ? you ask about how much you have to pay to be a mason can be anything from #10,000 to #40,000pounds it all depends on how far you want to look for knowledge ?:)
I was a temple master for 25yrs also a chapter master for rosecrusian Order the high you can reach in masonry is 33 degrees . I hope that would answer your ? please if you would like to know more about the masonry I will only be to happy to tell you any thing you want to know about them I want also to say hello to you all:)

Sometimes it is the small things that give the liars away.
I would say 25 years ago you were a sailor.

[grover66]

My now ex-husband became a freemason in 2001 and the lodge fees were $125 a year (Australian). He definitely didn't pay a year's salary :) And following on from another thread I've read about secret books, the only book that I remember him receiving was a Bible although there could have been some other gumph like pamphlets or something? *shrugs*

Although he did get some stickers with the compass insignia on them to put on the windscreens of our cars, supposedly so that if we were about to get a parking ticket or something and it happened that the policeman/parking inspector was a freemason too, he'd see the sticker and we'd be okay. He put one on my car but I peeled it off.

[kblood]

My now ex-husband became a freemason in 2001 and the lodge fees were $125 a year (Australian). He definitely didn't pay a year's salary :) And following on from another thread I've read about secret books, the only book that I remember him receiving was a Bible although there could have been some other gumph like pamphlets or something? *shrugs*

Although he did get some stickers with the compass insignia on them to put on the windscreens of our cars, supposedly so that if we were about to get a parking ticket or something and it happened that the policeman/parking inspector was a freemason too, he'd see the sticker and we'd be okay. He put one on my car but I peeled it off.

Omg... Masons dont get parking tickets? Now I gotta sign up :D That could in fact make it worth it, with the lack of parking spaces today, and everywhere parking costs something... or maybe I could just get a sticker like that? That perk is almost as nice as the free food I get at work :)

[himram abif]

the ? you ask about how much you have to pay to be a mason can be anything from #10,000 to #40,000pounds it all depends on how far you want to look for knowledge ?:) I was a temple master for 25yrs also a chapter master for rosecrusian Order the high you can reach in masonry is 33 degrees . I hope that would answer your ? please if you would like to know more about the masonry I will only be to happy to tell you any thing you want to know about them I want also to say hello to you all:)



Absolutely pissing myself laughing would not a "temple master" know how to spell:D:D:D

Its not about money

Its not what you know but who you know, and this IMO is the worst allegation that can be levelled against freemasonary.

[grover66]

Omg... Masons dont get parking tickets? Now I gotta sign up :D That could in fact make it worth it, with the lack of parking spaces today, and everywhere parking costs something... or maybe I could just get a sticker like that? That perk is almost as nice as the free food I get at work :)

Ha ha .. yeah, in hindsight what was I thinking peeling the stupid thing off?? :)

[the guy in pink]

Its not what you know but who you know, and this IMO is the worst allegation that can be levelled against freemasonary.

Then it's nothing bad. I have over the years done more business networking with guys I met through my sport than through the lodge. However my lodges are small town lodges, so I do business with the members of my lodges as well, as is inevitable in small towns.

[jimmi]

I haven't bothered with this section much ,up 'till now. I think that if the cost of joining is just a years salary then that's a small price for the 'benefits' one would receive, the true cost is far greater, and none would pay knowingly.

Snide comments about peoples cherished family members don't belong in a loving world either. If there are real masons here then treat them with the respect you wish to be treated with , the sooner we all wake up the better.

[himram abif]

Then it's nothing bad. I have over the years done more business networking with guys I met through my sport than through the lodge. However my lodges are small town lodges, so I do business with the members of my lodges as well, as is inevitable in small towns.


Not necessarily. Hypothetical question Mr Pink, two people approach you to do business with same deal,one is a mason (which you know due to handshake) which one do you do business with?

[the guy in pink]

Not necessarily. Hypothetical question Mr Pink, two people approach you to do business with same deal,one is a mason (which you know due to handshake) which one do you do business with?

If I am going to be screwed in business, I would rather be screwed by a friend than a stranger.

[himram abif]

If I am going to be screwed in business, I would rather be screwed by a friend than a stranger.

LOL i didn't say it was going to be a bad deal now did i. I think some of the pessimism of this site might be getting to you Mr Pink.

So to take that answer further would you always pick a mason over a non mason say for example in matters of news, politics the current world situation?

[jimmi]

LOL i didn't say it was going to be a bad deal now did i. I think some of the pessimism of this site might be getting to you Mr Pink.

So to take that answer further would you always pick a mason over a non mason say for example in matters of news, politics the current world situation?

I'd be very interested to read afew replies to this question!

[the guy in pink]

So to take that answer further would you always pick a mason over a non mason say for example in matters of news, politics the current world situation?

Not sure what you mean in matters of news etc.
But in business, I would always pick a friend over a stranger, if the deal was the same.
How to chose to do business between two friends, on masonic one not? Toss a coin.

[himram abif]

Hmm not seen a sidestep like that since Archie Gemmell in the world cup finals

[the guy in pink]

So to take that answer further would you always pick a mason over a non mason say for example in matters of news, politics the current world situation?

Here is a local news story I wrote recently, the editor of the paper is a member of a conservative Calvanistic church which is opposed to Freemasonry as a matter of dogma, but we are friends so he prints my masonic stories anyway.
http://www.zoutnet.co.za/details.asp?StoNum=6109&from=index%2Easpoffset%3D14 (http://www.zoutnet.co.za/details.asp?Stonum=6109&from=index%2Easpoffset%3D14)

[himram abif]

So was it a) an accident or b) a masonic plan to clear the land to extend the mining facility.:D:D


Right ill read the right article now, i did think that was a bit strange.Fires in Africa nearly had me running for my bible:D:D

[the guy in pink]

So was it a) an accident or b) a masonic plan to clear the land to extend the mining facility.:D:D
Sorry about that wrong link, I had just sent it to my wife at inute before. I worked on that mine and she visited the market with me when she came to Guinea for a break:D (I am currently working in South America - wife is at home)

[himram abif]

Okay very commendable and i have no doubt that freemasonary does alot of charity work worldwide. (although the problems still exsits, we here in the UK have been sending money etc to Africa for nearly 100 years and still they starve I wonder why that is???:rolleyes:)


My point is this masonary can and is used to push through political agendas, for example lodges urging members in America to RFID their children. People in postions of power also seem to be masons.Why??

In this rush for globalization why is freemasonary caught up in the miidle of it if it has nothing to do with it?

[the guy in pink]

although the problems still exsits, we here in the UK have been sending money etc to Africa for nearly 100 years and still they starve I wonder why that is???:rolleyes:)

My Theory? Money will never help, only education will, and 100 years is too short to do that. In Guinea only about 15% of the girls are literate, and until that changes to at least 50% no progress is possible.


My point is this masonary can and is used to push through political agendas, for example lodges urging members in America to RFID their children. People in postions of power also seem to be masons.Why??

Masonry does not push any political agendas. Is that program not just a social program? (OK I am biased - I think UK and USA politics are all about trivail issues - they do not have real problems like africa has)
There are masons in positions of power, but in no greater ratio than in the they exist in the general population.


In this rush for globalization why is freemasonary caught up in the miidle of it if it has nothing to do with it?

Why are any of us caught up in it? If you don't want to be part of it better step off the world now. It's just the way the world has shrunk through better communications. Heck, here I am in the Amazon basin Jungle chatting to my wife on skype who is 10 000km away .

[himram abif]

Masonary does not push political agendas umm ok http://http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21921&highlight=RFID


Problems in Africa are caused by the past and present foriegn policies of the USA and Europe ( and don't they just love to make us feel bad about it ching ching)


Globalization is not about communication but about power being consolidated in the hands of fewer and fewer people and all of us outside the elite will feel its bite (credit crunch anyone?)


Good talking with you Mr Pink hows the jungle btw?

[the guy in pink]

Problems in Africa are caused by the past and present foriegn policies of the USA and Europe ( and don't they just love to make us feel bad about it ching ching)
Here lot's of the folk are decendant's of slaves from West Africa, brought over to work on plantations. I cannot tell you how many have said to me. "Thank God my anscestors came here, tough on them but I would be there in West Africa now staving"

Good talking with you Mr Pink hows the jungle btw?
Amazing, I am on the coastal plain (swamp) about 1000km north of the Amazon, the vast size of the jungle boggles the mind. Have been trying to build a fish farm alongside a small 6km wide river 30km from the sea.

[himram abif]

[QUOTE=the guy in pink;318119]Here lot's of the folk are decendant's of slaves from West Africa, brought over to work on plantations. I cannot tell you how many have said to me. "Thank God my anscestors came here, tough on them but I would be there in West Africa now staving"

I think that answer may seriously rub some people up the wrong way. Bit like a german saying thank god we lost WW2 'cause we'd all be Nazis now.

(Abif puts tongue in cheek)

A fish farm in the jungle you say, what a freemason bringing captilism to the jungle oh my!!!

[mike martin]

and now to produce my evidence to prove that every single one of these masons is a liar and not to be trusted.

Have I missed it? Or is it in another part of the Forum?

I suppose that I could assume that you've realised that we're not actually lying, somehow I think not though.

Mike

[the guy in pink]

Have I missed it? Or is it in another part of the Forum?
Mike
Mike,
mwgdrwg had a Hissy fit and left, declaring that she would never return as a racist comment of hers was edited out. She will doubt be back under another name .

[krakhead]

notice how they have denied what i said with every fibre of their being and attacked my integrity.
which is exactly what i said their strategy would be

Hmmm.... How about if I claimed that everybody on here was not a real person at all? Everyone else except the person reading this. Everyone except you, yes you, the one reading this right now, none of this is real, it's a massive set-up just to catch you out!

Now watch all the denials come flooding in! OMG I am a genius! I have proved beyond all doubt that no-one on this forum exists! And if they deny it, it proves me right even more!

[mwgdrwg]

Hmmm.... How about if I claimed that everybody on here was not a real person at all? Everyone else except the person reading this. Everyone except you, yes you, the one reading this right now, none of this is real, it's a massive set-up just to catch you out!

Now watch all the denials come flooding in! OMG I am a genius! I have proved beyond all doubt that no-one on this forum exists! And if they deny it, it proves me right even more!

when i was young one of my closest friends dad was a mason who naturally assumed that we would both become masons when we were older. he used to tell us endless stories about corruption within the lodge, from masons breaking petty laws like handling stolen goods etc.. and getting away with it down to quite serious fraud, even one about arson. and although the police were involved before the issues were raised in lodge they never got prosecuted.
later in life i worked closeley with a mason from the same lodge who was a coke addict and lost his house and family due to it, as you can imagine his mouth would run and run. he even got caught once carrying a dealers amount of coke by the police, which again was raised in lodge and he never got prosecuted.

so this is where i get my evidence from ( the horses mouth ).

(when the freakmasons respond to this asking for evidence of lodges and name they will be ignored)

[mwgdrwg]

Mike,
mwgdrwg had a Hissy fit and left, declaring that she would never return as a racist comment of hers was edited out. She will doubt be back under another name .

^^ more masonic lies

she?? what makes you think you know anything about me freak?
a racist comment of mine was removed? are you making it up as you go along or just insane?

its abundantly clear you have a superiority complex

[mwgdrwg]

Have I missed it? Or is it in another part of the Forum?

I suppose that I could assume that you've realised that we're not actually lying, somehow I think not though.

Mike

some people have a life mike and have more important things to do than discuss you freaks

strange you were the first post after SF "AGAIN!"
speaks volumes

[mike martin]

some people have a life mike and have more important things to do than discuss you freaks

strange you were the first post after SF "AGAIN!"
speaks volumes

Ahem, get to the point!

and now to produce my evidence to prove that every single one of these masons is a liar and not to be trusted.

Still waiting

Mike

[mike martin]

when i was young one of my closest friends dad was a mason who naturally assumed that we would both become masons when we were older. he used to tell us endless stories about corruption within the lodge, from masons breaking petty laws like handling stolen goods etc.. and getting away with it down to quite serious fraud, even one about arson. and although the police were involved before the issues were raised in lodge they never got prosecuted.
later in life i worked closeley with a mason from the same lodge who was a coke addict and lost his house and family due to it, as you can imagine his mouth would run and run. he even got caught once carrying a dealers amount of coke by the police, which again was raised in lodge and he never got prosecuted.

so this is where i get my evidence from ( the horses mouth ).

(when the freakmasons respond to this asking for evidence of lodges and name they will be ignored)

Oh I see, the usual friend of a friend's mum's brother's step uncle told me eh?

Why can't we have the names and Lodge details then? Oh that's right you don't know because and let's be honest there wasn't a friend's Dad at all was there!

Although judging by some of your previous replies, I would be willing to believe that a horse probably did you tell you all this.

Mike

[mwgdrwg]

Oh I see, the usual friend of a friend's mum's brother's step uncle told me eh?

Why can't we have the names and Lodge details then? Oh that's right you don't know because and let's be honest there wasn't a friend's Dad at all was there!

Although judging by some of your previous replies, I would be willing to believe that a horse probably did you tell you all this.

Mike
no mike not a friends mums brothers step uncle at all , how strange that you feel the need to twist my words to that extent.

what im talking about is direct conversations "in the real world" between myself and a number of masons who each confirmed the corruption and what they payed to join.

i think youre judging me by your own low standards when you accuse me of fabricating where i obtained my evidence. from the first post where i asked the question i have been honest throughout

why cant you have names and lodge details?
tell me why you would want them and i shall think about supplying them

[lizzy]

Another lie, and a pretty stupid one at that. Who the hell's going to give anyone a year's salary? :rolleyes:

When a man joins the Masons, he pays an initiation fee. My Lodge charges $30 USA per degree, which means it costs $90 in fees to become a Master Mason of the Third Degree. After this, membership dues are $40 per year.

If someone joins the Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shriners, or other Masonic bodies, there are additional fees and dues, but they are much less expensive than civic clubs and other organizations. I'm a member of practically all the Masonic organizations, and what I pay per year to all of them combined is less than one week's salary, much less a year's.

It's also important to point out here that Freemasonry is a non-profit fraternal organization, and subsists solely on membership dues, donations, and fundraisers.

YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY BANNED.
FREEMASONS ARE EITHER DELUDED OR KNOWINGLY PART OF THE NWO CORRUPTION.

[icke and ham]

mwgdrwg, i for one belive your story and so do so many of us here so why not name and shame them. then we can all pass it on to the police and they cant all bemasons. Also the mason's dont like the newsopapers telling the truth so if we all spam the papers with the truth they will have to do something.

Imagine mike martins face when he finds the people involved are known to him- talk about losing the scales from his eyes lol. So dont keep it all to yourself you are being secretive like the mason's and you are above that. let us all share the info or they will callyou a liar.

[thelonious]

YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY BANNED.


I know you are, but what am I?

[mike martin]

no mike not a friends mums brothers step uncle at all , how strange that you feel the need to twist my words to that extent.
You know exactly what i mean, it's a rumour with no evidence like names and Lodges to back it up.

what im talking about is direct conversations "in the real world" between myself and a number of masons who each confirmed the corruption and what they payed to join.
Hang on you said a friend's Dad, no mention of multiple Masons giving you the juice.

i think youre judging me by your own low standards when you accuse me of fabricating where i obtained my evidence. from the first post where i asked the question i have been honest throughout
Actually still waiting for the evidence. All we have at the moment is a rumor or gossip.

why cant you have names and lodge details?
tell me why you would want them and i shall think about supplying them
Because I will look into the Lodge and the people involved to find out if it's true. The charge for expulsion is "bringing Freemasonry into disrepute"

Mike

[mwgdrwg]

You know exactly what i mean, it's a rumour with no evidence like names and Lodges to back it up.

Hang on you said a friend's Dad, no mention of multiple Masons giving you the juice.

Actually still waiting for the evidence. All we have at the moment is a rumor or gossip.

Because I will look into the Lodge and the people involved to find out if it's true. The charge for expulsion is "bringing Freemasonry into disrepute"

Mike

yet again you misquote me and try and spin and what ive said. please re read my original post where i discuss obtaining evidence from multiple masons, as i cannot be bothered correcting any more of your lies.

how do you think it makes you look continually twisting what ive posted to meet your own ends, when i have not misquoted or twisted what youve said once. you think it makes you look trustworthy?

well how strange you are unable to take a persons word for something.
what you have at the moment i know you would like to call rumour and gossip but in reality, it is my word against yours. i am sorry my word is not good enough for you but i think we should allow people to make thier own minds up about who apears more trustworthy.

give you details so that its to the benefit of freemasonry by cleaning up corruption within "YOUR" secret society. well stone the fucking crows if i thought for a nanosecond you were sincere i'd help, but perhaps if you really cared about corruption within freemasonry youd be quite clued up and doing something allready.
the events of which i spoke took place over a decade ago so i dont think it would do much good telling you the details anyway.
help clean up freemasonry? tbph i wouldnt piss on a mason if he was on fire.

how exactly would you find out if what i am saying is true?
do masons keep records of crimes theyve comitted?
or is it that you just want me to provide lodge number and name so you can check wether they are masons or not?

[perry_mason]

well how strange you are unable to take a persons word for something.
what you have at the moment i know you would like to call rumour and gossip but in reality, it is my word against yours. i am sorry my word is not good enough for you but i think we should allow people to make thier own minds up about who apears more trustworthy.

Maybe your word would be worth something if you'd actually said this approximately 3 weeks ago, before started playing silly games. If you knew all this you should have said it then instead of making a dramatic exit only to return with your tails between your legs with a story that's probably made up.

[finegreen]

Did this happen or has this something that you think happened. You speak in such an irrational way that it makes me concerned for you.

[mike martin]

yet again you misquote me and try and spin and what ive said. please re read my original post where i discuss obtaining evidence from multiple masons, as i cannot be bothered correcting any more of your lies.

how do you think it makes you look continually twisting what ive posted to meet your own ends, when i have not misquoted or twisted what youve said once. you think it makes you look trustworthy?

well how strange you are unable to take a persons word for something.
what you have at the moment i know you would like to call rumour and gossip but in reality, it is my word against yours. i am sorry my word is not good enough for you but i think we should allow people to make thier own minds up about who apears more trustworthy.

give you details so that its to the benefit of freemasonry by cleaning up corruption within "YOUR" secret society. well stone the fucking crows if i thought for a nanosecond you were sincere i'd help, but perhaps if you really cared about corruption within freemasonry youd be quite clued up and doing something allready.
the events of which i spoke took place over a decade ago so i dont think it would do much good telling you the details anyway.
help clean up freemasonry? tbph i wouldnt piss on a mason if he was on fire.

how exactly would you find out if what i am saying is true?
do masons keep records of crimes theyve comitted?
or is it that you just want me to provide lodge number and name so you can check wether they are masons or not?

So to sum up, you're making it all up!

If you had any conviction behind what you say you would have given me the details by now. As you haven't you try to turn it all about and cry about " ooh the nasty Mason is trying to twist my words", "oooh the nasty Mason that I was calling a liar doesn't believe me" Get a grip and get a life!

You have proven that you are trying to punch way above your weight in this Forum, mainly because the majority of posters here can actually reason through what they're writing and I include the ones that I disagree with strongly.

Maybe you should scuttle off to bilderberg as Joe Striling and his alter-egos would love you there. especially as they are now talking to theselves as JS & Co have moderated all non-believers into not bothering any more.

Mike.

[mwgdrwg]

So to sum up, you're making it all up!

If you had any conviction behind what you say you would have given me the details by now. As you haven't you try to turn it all about and cry about " ooh the nasty Mason is trying to twist my words", "oooh the nasty Mason that I was calling a liar doesn't believe me" Get a grip and get a life!

You have proven that you are trying to punch way above your weight in this Forum, mainly because the majority of posters here can actually reason through what they're writing and I include the ones that I disagree with strongly.

Maybe you should scuttle off to bilderberg as Joe Striling and his alter-egos would love you there. especially as they are now talking to theselves as JS & Co have moderated all non-believers into not bothering any more.

Mike.
i must say what a thrilling attempt at evasion and misdirection your last post was. so to sum it all up masons lie about what they pay to join

you dont want evidence or details now because you are calling me a liar again
lmfao

why have you continued to attack me instead of answering the question
WHEN YOU TELL ME EXACTLY HOW YOU CAN VERIFY WHAT I AM SAYING IS TRUE OR NOT THROUGH A LODGE NUMBER AND NAMES I WILL THINK ABOUT SUPPLYING YOU WITH DETAILS is this question too dificult cupcake?
( in case you had problems reading it the last couple of times i posted it)

maybe you should spend less time on all these forums you run around on trying to defend freemasonry as you seem to be getting me mixed up with someone who actually gives a fuck about freemasonic mumbo jumbo. i couldnt give a rats ass what you do with your spare time pal, fuck a goat engulfed in flames for all i care. i couldnt give a fuck. i don't care what you think you may or may not know about some mystery religious philosophy imo its all a load of crap. im not interested in discussing symbolism, philosophy or any other facet of your esoteric occult fraternity. otherwise perhaps i would have joined this and your little forum a long time ago dont you think? logic doesnt apear to be your strong point though eh mikey boy

but i must say you have enlightened me to much much more than that. about how you masons conduct yourselves when dealing with anybody who in your opinion says anything that might be construed in the slightest way to be anti masonic. how zealous you are in your attacks on these people, how contradictory, evasive, manipulative, arrogant, self righteous, self absorbed, and downright rude you all seem to be.

i can see why you are all so proud of freemasonry

[jacob sladder]

i must say what a thrilling attempt at evasion and misdirection your last post was. so to sum it all up masons lie about what they pay to join

you dont want evidence or details now because you are calling me a liar again
lmfao

why have you continued to attack me instead of answering the question
WHEN YOU TELL ME EXACTLY HOW YOU CAN VERIFY WHAT I AM SAYING IS TRUE OR NOT THROUGH A LODGE NUMBER AND NAMES I WILL THINK ABOUT SUPPLYING YOU WITH DETAILS is this question too dificult cupcake?
( in case you had problems reading it the last couple of times i posted it)

maybe you should spend less time on all these forums you run around on trying to defend freemasonry as you seem to be getting me mixed up with someone who actually gives a fuck about freemasonic mumbo jumbo. i couldnt give a rats ass what you do with your spare time pal, fuck a goat engulfed in flames for all i care. i couldnt give a fuck. i don't care what you think you may or may not know about some mystery religious philosophy imo its all a load of crap. im not interested in discussing symbolism, philosophy or any other facet of your esoteric occult fraternity. otherwise perhaps i would have joined this and your little forum a long time ago dont you think? logic doesnt apear to be your strong point though eh mikey boy

but i must say you have enlightened me to much much more than that. about how you masons conduct yourselves when dealing with anybody who in your opinion says anything that might be construed in the slightest way to be anti masonic. how zealous you are in your attacks on these people, how contradictory, evasive, manipulative, arrogant, self righteous, self absorbed, and downright rude you all seem to be.

i can see why you are all so proud of freemasonry


Why are you so angry and bitter? You come across as one nasty individual. Surely you can have a discussion without resorting to abuse?

I don't get your point about 'these people' (ie Freemasons) - surely they are all individuals with their own thoughts, views and interpretations?

You are one of the rudest posters I've come across on any forum, try to learn some tolerance.....

[icke and ham]

See, mwgdrwg, I said they would call you a liar if you didnt publish the facts. Dont play into there hands - give us all the true names and we can prove them wrong. You disapoint me as I thought this would be a way of showing you know the truth.

And if mike 'cleans up' his lodge that cant be a bad thing i mean who wants to keep bad people in freemasonary - surely not you!:(

[chestnutlodge]

mwgdrwg - but i must say you have enlightened me to much much more than that. about how you masons conduct yourselves when dealing with anybody who in your opinion says anything that might be construed in the slightest way to be anti masonic. how zealous you are in your attacks on these people, how contradictory, evasive, manipulative, arrogant, self righteous, self absorbed, and downright rude you all seem to be.

Do you look in the mirror often.

By the way if find a person on fire do you enquire as to whether they are a freemason before you refuse to piss on them?

Accusations with no substance, give facts which can be corroborated then your posts will begin to make sense, but after the 'years salary' untruth, forgive us if the forum is suspicious.

Perhaps these people who spoke to you knew of your loathing of masons and played on that by highlighting your insecurities.

If you do not care about freemasons and freemasonry stop posting on the subject.

[finegreen]

I think he is just suffering from some type of delusions.

[thelonious]

Jeez....I honestly can't believe this crap has gone on for 9 pages.

:rolleyes:

[mwgdrwg]

i am just replying to you in the manner that you have treated me throughout this discussion. if you find that nasty, go have a cry.

the masons have moved the emphasis from me proving to them how i know howmuch they pay to join, to me providing them with evidence of corrupt masons. i call that evasive

and still they cannot explain to me how they would find out if i am lying or not if i provide them with evidence of lodge number and names

[mwgdrwg]

mwgdrwg - but i must say you have enlightened me to much much more than that. about how you masons conduct yourselves when dealing with anybody who in your opinion says anything that might be construed in the slightest way to be anti masonic. how zealous you are in your attacks on these people, how contradictory, evasive, manipulative, arrogant, self righteous, self absorbed, and downright rude you all seem to be.

Do you look in the mirror often.

By the way if find a person on fire do you enquire as to whether they are a freemason before you refuse to piss on them?

Accusations with no substance, give facts which can be corroborated then your posts will begin to make sense, but after the 'years salary' untruth, forgive us if the forum is suspicious.

Perhaps these people who spoke to you knew of your loathing of masons and played on that by highlighting your insecurities.

If you do not care about freemasons and freemasonry stop posting on the subject.

go away you vulgar racist. you disgust me

[finegreen]

lol.

[mike martin]

See, mwgdrwg, I said they would call you a liar if you didnt publish the facts. Dont play into there hands - give us all the true names and we can prove them wrong. You disapoint me as I thought this would be a way of showing you know the truth.

And if mike 'cleans up' his lodge that cant be a bad thing i mean who wants to keep bad people in freemasonary - surely not you!:(

Listen ham and chips:D, I know you think you are helping this guy but honestly you really aren't.

He is concocting a load of tosh and is chucking his "toys out" because his bluff has been called and he knows full well that I would write to the Secretary of the Lodge and it's Provincial Grand Secretary to get to the truth of things. He knows full well that he can't supply me with any information to do so. So he has to cover up.

I would just leave him to it as I intend to do from now on.

Mike

[chestnutlodge]

go away you vulgar racist. you disgust me

You really must stop typing responses whilst sitting in front of the mirror. It is proving distracting for you.

Unfortuntely you saw fit to have my post detailing what you had called me in a PM removed. Which was a shame.

You have made 2 allogations which neither one can you substantiate.

No evidence for the ridiculous years salary scenrio.

No provision of these masons who were corrupt. PM Mike Martin and me, we will investigate through the proper channels to prove you right. Anybody who is convicted of a custodial sentance or community service and is a mason is suspended and is subject to a hearing and possible expulsion. So these characters will be known. No reason to hide them, if they exist outside of your world.

[mwgdrwg]

You really must stop typing responses whilst sitting in front of the mirror. It is proving distracting for you.

Unfortuntely you saw fit to have my post detailing what you had called me in a PM removed. Which was a shame.

You have made 2 allogations which neither one can you substantiate.

No evidence for the ridiculous years salary scenrio.

No provision of these masons who were corrupt. PM Mike Martin and me, we will investigate through the proper channels to prove you right. Anybody who is convicted of a custodial sentance or community service and is a mason is suspended and is subject to a hearing and possible expulsion. So these characters will be known. No reason to hide them, if they exist outside of your world.

i dont respond to racists

[mwgdrwg]

Listen ham and chips:D, I know you think you are helping this guy but honestly you really aren't.

He is concocting a load of tosh and is chucking his "toys out" because his bluff has been called and he knows full well that I would write to the Secretary of the Lodge and it's Provincial Grand Secretary to get to the truth of things. He knows full well that he can't supply me with any information to do so. So he has to cover up.

I would just leave him to it as I intend to do from now on.

Mike
i have been honest throughout. (repeat)
the information about what they pay was confirmed to me by seperate masons over a decade ago. (repeat)

either close friends of mine were lying, or mike and his cronies are lying.

notice how mike has dropped the issue of what they pay to join and is now soley concerned with obtaining lodge number and names of the corrupt masons i have known who supplied me with the facts in the first place.

excellent i was hoping you would drop this subject about 2 weeks ago mike
shame that unlike myself you are not a man of your word though.

[geeve420]

I'd be very interested to read afew replies to this question!

Buisness deal question, I would go with who ever had the better buisness plan and could show the facts suppoting said buisness transaction, regardless of them being a Mason or not. You don't make money by making bad buisness decisions!

To answer the orignal post, I live in the states, Oklahoma, and I payed a one time fee of $100 for the degrees and then the dues for membership are $40 a year, Last time I checked that was way less than what I make a year:) I bet if you called the Grand lodge and asked what fess were involved they would tell ya:) amazing huh!!

Thanks Geeve

[the guy in pink]

.notice how mike has dropped the issue of what they pay to join and is now soley concerned with obtaining lodge number and names of the corrupt masons i have known who supplied me with the facts in the first place.
..
Ok let us bring it up again. I paid the equivalent of one mornings work to join and I now pay what I earn in 2 hours as annual dues.
Most Masons will confirm that thewy pay similiar amount. No Mason has paid a years salary to join.
Clear enough?

[mwgdrwg]

Ok let us bring it up again. I paid the equivalent of one mornings work to join and I now pay what I earn in 2 hours as annual dues.
Most Masons will confirm that thewy pay similiar amount. No Mason has paid a years salary to join.
Clear enough?

im talking about uk freemasonry
i wouldnt presume to know what an american mason pays to join
as ive never spoken to an american mason about such matters

but going along the lines of the responses ive had from mike and his cronies
i have to paint you with the same brush and say that you arent exactly trustworthy. birds of a feather and all that.

[3ill]

.......shame that unlike myself you are not a man of your word though.

If you were a man of your word, you wouldn't be posting here anymore, would you? Y'know I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt, thought maybe getting called out on your bullshit might have rang a couple of braincells together to form some semblance of reason, but unfortunately I was wrong.

It's clear now you're simply a cunt, and you should be treated as such.

3!LL

[geeve420]

Quote mwgdrwg "im talking about uk freemasonry
i wouldnt presume to know what an american mason pays to join
as ive never spoken to an american mason about such matters"

Seems to me that at least two American Masons have answered your question. If you would like the phone number to the Grand Lodge here in Oklahoma I'll get it for you, if you don't know how to Google or dial international.

Read the responses before making more a fool of yourself:) Oh and American and UK is capitalized, and the apostrophe key is the one next to the colon/semi-colon key. :D

Thanks,

Geeve

[megafish33]

im talking about uk freemasonry
...

LOL! I've read this far and his argument is one of the dumbest arguments about the Freemasons.

mwgdrwg, what gives? You're serious?

[icke and ham]

Leaving aside the slur mike has made by calling me "ham and chips" when i have a reference to the blessed David in my nickname, he is now making more sence than mwgdrg. I have urged this welsh wizatrd over and over to blow the mason's out of trhe water with the truth but i am seeing that he has feet of clay.

It has come to something when a mason like mike martin shows more credbility than a genuine icke forumist. I mean why keep making unstantiated claims that should frighten them (the mason's) and then turning them into rubbish and only posting rude coments? I see mike running ring's round mwrdrg and i know why!

mwgdrg is a mason in disgise! how easy for one of Them (although i dont go along with the reptile bit as i havent been convince) to infilltrate this forum and say stupid things about freemasonary so every one thinks the opposite. they are working together!

We cant beat the mason's if they have better argueaments than Icke forumists!

[chestnutlodge]

i dont respond to racists

Your justification for such an accusation is what?

Oh silly me you do not respond do you!

I think your fellow formites have the measure of you particularly 3ill.

[eternal_spirit]

Quote: icke and ham

We cant beat the mason's if they have better argueaments than Icke forumists!

..........................

Depends what you want or don't want to believe.

About fees.....It's same as any religion you pay based upon your income. Example ; A bus driver would pay what ever he could afford, a bank manager the same etc etc. Kind of like a yearly subscription/donation. That's what I heard an alleged mason say once on a talk radio show.

Which isn't the same as a joining fee.

[eternal_spirit]

Your justification for such an accusation is what?

Oh silly me you do not respond do you!

I think your fellow formites have the measure of you particularly 3ill.

.........................

Get down off you high horse. I'm calling in the anti-masonic heavies soon. :) Then we'll see how sure you all are about your religion.

[eternal_spirit]

Originally Posted by mwgdrwg http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=322178#post322178)
im talking about uk freemasonry

............................

Agreed, :)

We'd get more sense out of a plank than some of these Yanks. :rolleyes:

[eternal_spirit]

Why are you so angry and bitter? You come across as one nasty individual. Surely you can have a discussion without resorting to abuse?

I don't get your point about 'these people' (ie Freemasons) - surely they are all individuals with their own thoughts, views and interpretations?

You are one of the rudest posters I've come across on any forum, try to learn some tolerance.....

............................

Jeez you lot have had an easy ride so far ( cackles with intentions of future planned evils:) )


You big baby you, all you masons against one none mason tut tut don't throw your rattle out the pram. You lot like to gang up on people...


Let's get this thread in the rantroom THEN YOU'LL REALIZE HOW WRONG YOU ARE, WANT SOME REAL ABUSE?



































MASONIC LYING SCUM BAGS YOU'VE LIED AND TWISTED SO MUCH AND YOU FEEL THE NEED TO CONTINUE LYING TO DEFEND YOUR SICK RELIGION















YOU LAP DOGS OF SATAN


BTW MR SLADDER

ITS A LONG WAY TO FALL TO THE BOTTOM RUNG OF JACOBS LADDER. AND EVEN IF YOU ARE HIGH UP DOUBT YOUD ADMIT OR EVEN KNOW THERE ARE 360 DEGRESS, SO THE LADDER IS A MISNOMER CIRCLES DONT TRAVEL IN STRAIGHT LINES YOUR MASTERS ARE LYING TOO YOU.

[jacob sladder]

.........................

Get down off you high horse. I'm calling in the anti-masonic heavies soon. :) Then we'll see how sure you all are about your religion.

Is Freemasonry a Religion then? I thought it was a fraternal Society like the Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes, Foresters etc. etc.
I'm sure that there are not any ordained Ministers in the Freemasons.

Why should you need to 'beat the Freemasons'? - just because they are members of this forum. Surely, itis best to gain knowledge / opinions from all sides - unless you know it all already? Are you calling in the 'anti masonic heavies' because you feel you are on a loser...

Ps Do you think that the Welsh M-------- however you spell it, may be disgruntled as he has been turned down for membership of the Masons in the past?! ;)

[eternal_spirit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=322365#post322365)
.........................

Get down off you high horse. I'm calling in the anti-masonic heavies soon. :) Then we'll see how sure you all are about your religion.

Quote: jacobs sladder

Is Freemasonry a Religion then? I thought it was a fraternal Society like the Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes, Foresters etc. etc.
I'm sure that there are not any ordained Ministers in the Freemasons.

Why should you need to 'beat the Freemasons'? - just because they are members of this forum. Surely, itis best to gain knowledge / opinions from all sides - unless you know it all already? Are you calling in the 'anti masonic heavies' because you feel you are on a loser...

Ps Do you think that the Welsh M-------- however you spell it, may be disgruntled as he has been turned down for membership of the Masons in the past?! ;)

................................

Yes, many would say so, others obvioulsy not.


About the anti-masonic heavies ( I was lying just proves how easy it is to make someone believe a lie )

Don't know, but I turned the Masons down.

I had family who where Masons.

[jacob sladder]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=322365#post322365)
.........................

Get down off you high horse. I'm calling in the anti-masonic heavies soon. :) Then we'll see how sure you all are about your religion.

Quote: jacobs sladder

Is Freemasonry a Religion then? I thought it was a fraternal Society like the Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes, Foresters etc. etc.
I'm sure that there are not any ordained Ministers in the Freemasons.

Why should you need to 'beat the Freemasons'? - just because they are members of this forum. Surely, itis best to gain knowledge / opinions from all sides - unless you know it all already? Are you calling in the 'anti masonic heavies' because you feel you are on a loser...

Ps Do you think that the Welsh M-------- however you spell it, may be disgruntled as he has been turned down for membership of the Masons in the past?! ;)

................................

Yes, many would say so, others obvioulsy not.


About the anti-masonic heavies ( I was lying just proves how easy it is to make someone believe a lie )

Don't know, but I turned the Masons down.

I had family who where Masons.

Do you lie about a lot of stuff then? Not a very honourable way to live your life is it?

Tut Tut.....:(

[chestnutlodge]

Eternal - If as you say you have family who were masons and I assume you are in the UK, then you wll be aware from asking them that:

Masonry is not a religion

There is no joining fee according to salary. One gives as one sees fit and as this is anonymous in many instances it is down to ones own conscious.

There is not 360 degrees in masonry.

If you feel the only way to get information across is to rant then I am sorry IMO that achieves nothing other than frustration and entrenchment.

[3ill]

.........................

Get down off you high horse. I'm calling in the anti-masonic heavies soon. :) Then we'll see how sure you all are about your religion.


The ridiculousness. It'sa spreadin'.......

;)

3!LL

[eternal_spirit]

The ridiculousness. It'sa spreadin'.......

;)

3!LL
.....................

Yes, I've been on here far too longggggggggggg

:D


Cya later.

[thelonious]

LOL! I've read this far and his argument is one of the dumbest arguments about the Freemasons.



Word.

Even if I was on the other side, I'd have a big problem with this stuff. Anybody who thinks someone is going to pay a year's salary to join a club, Masonic or not, is clearly deluded.

[3ill]

About the anti-masonic heavies ( I was lying just proves how easy it is to make someone believe a lie )



Oh, cmon' now...... you're gonna have to do a bit better than that. I didn't believe you for one. And for two, if anything it reminded me of this kid we use to mess with in Juvi. He'd run his mouth and anytime anyone would tell him off or put him in his place he'd say "I'm callin' my cuuuuzzin'! Wait til' I get my cuuuuzzzin!"

Y'know a few times I've had to step back and think "Am I being hypocritical?" I looked at the mason debates and commented that they were really nothing more than sly insults being passed between two groups. Then I go and use overt insults in another thread. That's profoundly hypocritical. The ridiculousness of it all tempts me sooooo...........

I get the feeling a few of you haven't stepped back enough to see how ridiculous this has gotten. You're right in it, and while the mason's are being sly in their own right, I'm only seeing the really absurd comments coming from people who frequent this board. If I'm wrong feel free to show me. I mean as they say, you've completely lost the plot. Step back. Look at it from a different angle. Use some critical thinking to be critical of yourselves. From where I'm standing, There are some forum members perpetuating exactly what they would condemn in others, as long as they were part of the everpresent "Them". I really do get the feeling some of you have read Icke's books and missed the point completely, rather humping the scandalous bits, the same thing you would condemn about the mainstream media. I mean, and I'm worried that I may be acting Hypocritical?
I mean, are you really awake, or do you simply have better information in your dream?

Peace,
3!LL

[mike martin]

Leaving aside the slur mike has made by calling me "ham and chips" when i have a reference to the blessed David in my nickname, he is now making more sence than mwgdrg.
Apologies it was only meant as a joke.

mwgdrg is a mason in disgise! how easy for one of Them (although i dont go along with the reptile bit as i havent been convince) to infilltrate this forum and say stupid things about freemasonary so every one thinks the opposite. they are working together!
Oh come on. Now you'e just being as silly as him. He clearly has no knowledge of Freemasonry whatsoever.

Mike

[mike martin]

If you were a man of your word, you wouldn't be posting here anymore, would you? Y'know I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt, thought maybe getting called out on your bullshit might have rang a couple of braincells together to form some semblance of reason, but unfortunately I was wrong.

It's clear now you're simply a cunt, and you should be treated as such.

3!LL

Couldn't have put it better myself, except of course in my awareness that cnuts are actually useful.

Mike

[mike martin]

About fees.....It's same as any religion you pay based upon your income. Example ; A bus driver would pay what ever he could afford, a bank manager the same etc etc. Kind of like a yearly subscription/donation. That's what I heard an alleged mason say once on a talk radio show.

Which isn't the same as a joining fee.

First Freemasonry really isn't a religion, if it was I would have left long ago, as I have a problem with religions. My relationship with God is mine, I have no need or want of middlemen or people who tell me how to do it.

Second Masonic Subs, and joining fees have no link to a Mason's income. I know this not think it as I am (as I stated before) a Lodge Treasurer and am responsible for all of the Lodge's income except the Charity money which is dealt with by the Charity Steward.

Either the guy on the radio wasn't a Mason, or you misheard him and he was actually talking about Charity donations which are whatever we can afford to give.

Mike

[chrism]

Mike,

in addition to what you have said, I completely agree that the subs and joining fee are completely independent of the individual's earnings, but those who can afford to put more in to the alms box usually do!

Of course, this donation is given privately, but I personally make all of my charity donations through my lodge, because it supports things that I support. The donations in the alms box must go into the charity account, and therefore cannot be used towards lodge costs.

For anyone who wants yet another answer to the question of joining/annual fees:

Joining fee for my lodge is now £76, plus annual fees of £132.00 (i.e. £208 for the first year). Because I came in to the lodge through my father, he chose to pay my joining fee (£68 at the time) for me as a welcome present. I pay the annual dues as a £11 per month Standing Order to the lodge account.

In addition, I would have purchased my Master Mason apron myself (I think they are available from around £28 online - if anyone wants to check please do so) but again my father handed me his old one as he was by this point an installed master. The aprons are slightly different and he had no use for the old one. I had to buy the extender myself after putting on some weight though!

Then there are the dining fees. At my mother lodge (the one I was initiated into) these are £13 for a meal, which is not too bad. I am currently joining a lodge where the annual fee is £180 INCLUDING all the meals (11 meetings a year) which is much better value!

The reason I highlight the different fees is because some lodges charges include dining fees, while others don't, and the basic fee is set by the lodge itself. All lodges are 'Private lodges' which has nothing to do with the secrecy we all know about (eh??!) but that they have their own constitutions and regulations, including the amount they charge. The annual UGLE (grand lodge) fees are set and I think are about £12 per person per year. The reason I am not sure of that figure is because the LODGE pays this, not the individual member, and it is covered within the annual fee paid by a mason to his lodge.

I could not afford to pay a year's salary, but believe it or not had heard similar things from my Mother. She and my Father are divorced, and she has no idea how much it costs, but because she heard it from someone she trusts she has no choice but to believe it. She did not ask them how they came by the figure, unfortunately, so has no foundation for her belief either.

In that regard, I am refreshed to see that many of the members here want to see masons 'proven wrong' and to that end I wish them all the best. Honestly. Not about the 'wrong' bit, but I am a man of scientific values, and am always willing to prove (test) the theories that I have, and join anyone else in debating them. I constantly ask myself if I am doing the right thing, and re-evaluate my own beliefs and opinions based on all the evidence as and when it becomes available. 3ill and kblood have asked some questions here and on other threads and do appear to be willing to listen to the masonic opinion, and I thank you!

For what it is worth, I am always willing to listen to evidence that masons are 'evil' because in a minority of cases (I would hope it is a minority) there will be some truth in them. In a society as widely spread as freemasonry, we cannot deny that there will be some rotten apples spoiling the barrel. Unfortunately, without proof (as in all other areas of crime and unfairness) it is not possible to bring the perpetrators to justice. So while Mike and others offer to help (and I believe this is a genuine offer - I have known Mike for a while and in my eyes he is an honest and reliable person; at least I have no reason to disbelieve him) I understand that because he is a mason many of the people here will not wish to trust him.

All I ask is that you provide what evidence you do have. When they are uncovered, 'bad' masons are expelled from freemasonry, and if you believe that 'we protect our own' (which we don't!) then imagine how we would treat someone who has been kicked out! It would be like a prison warden being convicted and going into general population. [NB - this is a joke. Thanks for the laughter.]

I, like many 'visitors' here am willing to answer any of your questions with my opinions and honest responses. Although I am aware that based on this post alone, and with no evidence at all, I may well be called a liar, I hope that the majority of you will continue to treat myself and the other masonic members with the tolerance you have already shown. And ask away - please!:)

[perry_mason]

Leaving aside the slur mike has made by calling me "ham and chips" when i have a reference to the blessed David in my nickname, he is now making more sence than mwgdrg. I have urged this welsh wizatrd over and over to blow the mason's out of trhe water with the truth but i am seeing that he has feet of clay.

It has come to something when a mason like mike martin shows more credbility than a genuine icke forumist. I mean why keep making unstantiated claims that should frighten them (the mason's) and then turning them into rubbish and only posting rude coments? I see mike running ring's round mwrdrg and i know why!

mwgdrg is a mason in disgise! how easy for one of Them (although i dont go along with the reptile bit as i havent been convince) to infilltrate this forum and say stupid things about freemasonary so every one thinks the opposite. they are working together!

We cant beat the mason's if they have better argueaments than Icke forumists!

Icke & Ham, you've expalined the first part of you're user name, why not the first. What's the Ham all about? :D

Good post ChrisM!

[chrism]

Just a guess - play on words possibly - Ickenham born??

[mike martin]

All I ask is that you provide what evidence you do have. When they are uncovered, 'bad' masons are expelled from freemasonry, and if you believe that 'we protect our own' (which we don't!) then imagine how we would treat someone who has been kicked out! It would be like a prison warden being convicted and going into general population. [NB - this is a joke. Thanks for the laughter.]

He stopped talking at the point he seemed to realise that his fantasies might actually get someone kicked out

I, like many 'visitors' here am willing to answer any of your questions with my opinions and honest responses. Although I am aware that based on this post alone, and with no evidence at all, I may well be called a liar, I hope that the majority of you will continue to treat myself and the other masonic members with the tolerance you have already shown. And ask away - please!:)
I got a much nicer reception here than when I first joined Concen, although I've go to be fair the people there are also thinkers (as well as here) rather than sheep.

Mike

[mike martin]

Just a guess - play on words possibly - Ickenham born??

More like Chippenham,, do you get it now???

Mike

[icke and ham]

Apologies it was only meant as a joke.



Mike

Well, thank Mike. You are coming across as a gentleman. In fact you are much mor polite than Tinmen so maybe your not so bad. Are all mason's like that? I dont know what to think. Do I listen to you or someone who rants and uses obcene language? (And mwrgdrg never came out with the truth either.)

Perhaps I could find out more about freemasonary. How do i find out if its so secret?

[chrism]

Icke&ham - there is a masonic Q&A topic open at the moment, but I guess you already know a little about our little club!

I hope that the majority of the posters you meet are as polite and forthcoming as Mike, but as we have members from all sorts of backgrounds I am sure you will find some who you don't get on with.

In terms of the secrecy - you can ask anything at all - we will tell you if we are not permitted (by our obligation) to answer it. And if you want to ask loads of Freemasons, look for Mike's forum and join in the discussions there.

At least you have a rough idea of the financial costs already, which is more than I did (My father said I could afford it, and I still trust him!)

Chris

[finegreen]

Well put brother Crism

[jacob sladder]

Well put brother Crism

Seconded! Finegreen.

[perry_mason]

More like Chippenham,, do you get it now???

Mike

Ah, I get it! I've got your number now Icke-and-ham! :D:D

[danielson23uk]

Just to get the topic back on subject, our Lodge has a joining fee of £100 and annual subs of £80 per year.
Members are also asked to pay for their dining after the meeting. £19 for a three course meal with cheese and biscuits and wine. If you don't dine, you don't pay.
Is there anyone on here that can seriously say that they actually believe the original post about a full year's salary? Ludicrous.

[tylerstoast]

Just to get the topic back on subject, our Lodge has a joining fee of £100 and annual subs of £80 per year.
Members are also asked to pay for their dining after the meeting. £19 for a three course meal with cheese and biscuits and wine. If you don't dine, you don't pay.
Is there anyone on here that can seriously say that they actually believe the original post about a full year's salary? Ludicrous.

Our lodge fees are about the same - the meal is a little cheaper.

I love the idea of paying my annual salary - especially as its a yearly subscription so presumably I would never have money again, ooh the wife wont be happy ! :D

[finegreen]

Do you guys have the endowment? Here in Ohio if you pay a specific amount up front your paid for life. I think its like 1500 bucks or somthing.

[danielson23uk]

I love the idea of paying my annual salary - especially as its a yearly subscription so presumably I would never have money again, ooh the wife wont be happy !
tylerstoast is online now Report Post Reply With Quote
If I were wealthy enough to pay my annual salary every year as subs I'd suggest that I would've retired years ago! Can you imagine the conversation with Mrs.Danielson23uk?...
"Darling I'm going to join the masons. They said they only need my full year's salary! Hope you wasn't desperate to take the kids on holiday .......... or eat this year!"

[chestnutlodge]

Do you guys have the endowment? Here in Ohio if you pay a specific amount up front your paid for life. I think its like 1500 bucks or somthing.

Still have that in Scotland

[danielson23uk]

Hi Finegreen,

They do a similar thing in Scotland but I've never heard of it in England. A friend of mine in a Scottish Lodge paid something like £250 for life membership.
Our Treasurer has recently started accepting Direct Debits to take payments in installments throughout the year. Much easier on the pocket than a lump sum every year.

[geeve420]

Here in Oklahoma it's $350 for the lifetime dues.

Thanks

Geeve

[danielson23uk]

Wow Geeve! That's good. Where do I sign? I might struggle making the meetings though!

[the guy in pink]

Here in Oklahoma it's $350 for the lifetime dues.
Geeve

So annual salaries in your the Oklahoma country side are pretty low are they? :rolleyes:

[geeve420]

So annual salaries in your the Oklahoma country side are pretty low are they? :rolleyes:


Yeah here in sticks we only make about 5 cents per bail of hay we load;) LOL:D

Thanks

Geeve

[danielson23uk]

Yeah here in sticks we only make about 5 cents per bail of hay we load LOL

LOL. My how times have changed. You actually get paid for that now!!!!:eek::D:p

[geeve420]

Wow Geeve! That's good. Where do I sign? I might struggle making the meetings though!

Well it's only twice a month! And we'll feed ya:D

Thanks,

Geeve

[geeve420]

LOL. My how times have changed. You actually get paid for that now!!!!:eek::D:p

That's alot of money when you grow your food and sheer sheep for clothes, it's like little house in the prarie here:D

Thanks

Geeve

[perry_mason]

There wouldn't be a single Mason in the great county of Yorkshire if you had to pay a years salary to join. :D

[icke and ham]

You mason's think your so clever runing rings round me but you dont know me. You know who Icke is but Ham was in the bible - look at your special masonic bibles ive heard about. he got cursed by Noah and all his family who were africans were made slaves. Was Noah a mason? If you are not part of this why not explain.

[chrism]

Sorry B&H (forgive the crap pun, I just prefer smoke to fog) - I know nothing about that part of the bible.

Hopefully a priest will be happy to explain. Although the bible is a part of the lodge, it does not in itself form part of the teachings (we are advised to seek the truth contained within it for ourself) and as the Volume of Sacred Law can also be the Koran, Torah, texts from Sikh tradition, Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (well, maybe not) or any other sacred text, referring to Noah went completely over my head.

Still, on our perambulations we are accompanied by 'Deacons' who escort us around and into/out of the lodge, so it could be said that:

'The Masons went in two by two, Hurrah, Hurrah'

I am surprised that anyone understands the bible these days. I spent time this year trying to explain to my niece that the Easter Bunny did NOT die on the Cross to give us Chocolate. But then, she is four, and tends to believe the evidence of her own eyes and what she is told.

Chris

[chestnutlodge]

Chris does your niece post on here? I am sure with that logic she would be a hit.

[chrism]

I think she may be posting as Tinmenace. She is a credit to the family.

C

[geeve420]

You mason's think your so clever runing rings round me but you dont know me. You know who Icke is but Ham was in the bible - look at your special masonic bibles ive heard about. he got cursed by Noah and all his family who were africans were made slaves. Was Noah a mason? If you are not part of this why not explain.

"Genesis 9:18-29 has been popularly understood to mean that Ham was cursed, and this understanding has often been used to justify oppression of African people, the descendants of Ham. Since Ham is regarded as the father of African people, this belief implies that Ham's offended his father Noah and because of this wdescendants are also cursed. The text gives the impression that Ham as cursed, but a careful reading of the passage reveals that this is not so, but rather that Canaan was the offender and the one cursed."

If you would like to read the whole thing it can be found here:

http://www.bibles.com/brcpages/allegedham

You'll notice that I used a non partisan web site to teach you. This is a bible study web site. as Far as if he (Noah) was a mason, considering Noah had died well before the building of Solomon"s temple I'd say not. His occupation is unknown. We Masons learn about operative Masonry at Solomons' temple so Noah really plays no part here. Do some research if you want to quote the bible there Green eggs and Ham! :)

Thanks

Geeve

[bobjob123]

Sometimes it is the small things that give the liars away.
I would say 25 years ago you were a sailor.

i will show you how to tie the knots around your neck and face the east on one leg :D

[danielson23uk]

i will show you how to tie the knots around your neck and face the east on one leg :D

I'm sure you will bobjob123. We'll have to try to fit that in before your nurse comes back with the haliperodol. Care in the community hey.;)

[the guy in pink]

i will show you how to tie the knots around your neck and face the east on one leg :D

Bob, Our seaman was a slippery mispelling 25 years ago:D

[the duke]

Hey Danielson and Perry, what are you talking about? I don't know about you but I paid a years wages to join the Freemasons!!! It was heart breaking to give away my annual salary of £125! It wiped me out! Ha ha ha ha!

Some people literally, for real, worry me!!! if I knowingly bumped into some people on this forum, in a dark alley, i'd be seriously worried!!!

[barney_rubble]

Well I am in Ontario Canada and I had to pay for:
1. Initiation fee $300 (£150.13) this includes: 3 degree fees, MM apron,
GL certificate, and a personal copy of VSL (King James version)
2. First years dues (pro-rated) $30 (£15.01) I joined in October

For a Grand Total of $330.00 (£165.14)

No banquet fees here - unless we have a very special event catered (e.g vist from the Grand Master).

That was probably my first years salary when I was pumping gas a the local gas station at age 16.
Sorry gas = petrol.