Tubal Cain, the Secret Password of a Mason

[eternal_spirit]

Tubal Cain, the Secret Password of a Mason

One rabbi notes that Satan was an active agent in the fall of man (Midrash Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer 13, beginning), and was the father of Cain (ibid, 21), while he was also instrumental in the offering of Isaac (Midrash Tanchuma, Wayera, 22 [ed. Stettin, p. 39a]), in the release of the animal destined by Esau for his father (ibid, Toledot, 11), in the theophany at Sinai, in the death of Moses (Deuteronomy Rabbah 13:9), in David's sin with Bath-sheba (Sanhedrin 95a), and in the death of Queen Vashti (Megilla 11a). The decree to destroy all the Jews, which Haman obtained, was written on parchment brought by Satan (Esther Rabba 3:9). When Alexander the Great reproached the Jewish sages with their rebellion, they made the plea that Satan had been too mighty for them (Tamid 32a).

http://freemasonrywatch.org/pics/symbolsnew.jpg (http://freemasonrywatch.org/sexmagic.html)

Note the THIRD sale item, number C: Two
Ball and Cane surrounded by Two Ball
and Chain. The Secret Password of a
Master Mason, the THIRD Degree is
Tubal Cain...

Ex. (Pressing his thumb as before): "What is this ?"

Vis.: "The pass-grip of a Master Mason."

Ex.: "Has this a name?"

Vis.: "It has."

Ex.: "Will you give it to me ?"

Vis.: "I did not so receive it, neither will I so impart it."

Ex.: "How will you dispose of it?"

Vis.: "I will syllable it with you."

Ex.: "Syllable it and begin."

Vis.: "No, you begin."

Ex.: "You must begin."

Vis.: "Bal."

Ex.:. "Tu."

Vis.: "Cain."

Ex.: "Tubal."

Vis.: "Tubal-Cain."


Nay, even while Adam was alive, it came to pass that the posterity of Cain became exceedingly wicked, every one successively dying one after the other, more wicked than the former. They were intolerable in war, and vehement in robberies; and if any one were slow to murder people, yet was he bold in his profligate behaviour, in acting unjustly, and doing injury for gain.

Josephus
Antiquities of the Jews, A.D. 93

http://freemasonrywatch.org/pics/taualtar.jpg














Tubal-Cain: Who he was, and what that says about the nature of Freemasonry given it is the secret password of a Master Mason.

Tau Altar 1. Adam and Eve had two sons. The elder of them was named Cain, which name, when it is interpreted, signifies a possession; the younger was Abel, which signifies sorrow. They had also daughters. Now the two brethren were pleased with different courses of life; for Abel, the younger, was a lover of righteousness, and believing that God was present at all his actions, he excelled in virtue, and his employment was that of a shephard. But Cain was not only very wicked in other respects, but was wholly intent upon getting, and he first contrived to plough the ground. He slew his brother on the occasion following: They had resolved to sacrifice to God. Now Cain brought the fruits of the earth, and of his husbandry; but Abel brought milk, and the first-fruits of his flocks; but God was more delighted with the latter oblation when he honoured with what grew naturally of its own accord, than he was with what was the invention of a covetous man, and gotten by forcing the ground; whence it was that Cain was very angry that Abel was preferred by God before him; and he slew his brother, and hid his dead body, thinking to escape discovery. But God, knowing what had been done, came to Cain, and asked him what was become of his brother, because he had not seen him of many days, whereas he used to observe them conversing together at other times. But Cain was in doubt with himself, and knew not what answer to give God. At first he said that he was himself at a loss about his brother's disappearance; but when he was provoked by God, who pressed him vehemently, as resolving to know what the matter was, he replied he was not his brothers guardian or keeper, nor was he an observer of what he did. But in return, God convicted Cain as having been the murderer of his brother; and said, "I wonder at thee, that thou knowest not what is become of a man whom thou thyself has destroyed." God therefore did not inflict the punishment [of death] upon him, on account of his offering sacrifice, and thereby making supplication to Him not to be extreme in his wrath to him; but He made him accursed, and threatened his posterity in the seventh generation. He also cast him, together with his wife, out of that land. And when he was afraid that in wandering about he should fall among wild beasts, and by that means perish, God bid him not to entertain such a melancholy suspicion, and to go over all the earth without fear of what mischief he might suffer from wild beasts; and setting a mark upon him that he might be known, he commanded him to depart.
2. And when Cain had travelled over many countries, he, with his wife, built a city, named Nod, which is a place so called, and there he settled his abode; where also he had children. However, he did not accept of his punishment in order to ammendment, but to increase his wickedness; for he only aimed to procure everything that was for his own bodily pleasure, though it obliged him to be injurious to his neighbours. He augmented his household substance with much wealth, by rapine and violence; he excited his acquaintance to procure pleasures and spoils of robbery, and became a great leader of men into wicked courses. He also introduced a change in that way of simplicity wherein men lived before; and was the author of measures and weights. And whereas they lived innocently and generously while they knew nothing of such arts, he changed the world into cunning craftiness. He first of all set boundaries about lands; he built a city, and fortified it with walls, and he compelled his family to come together to it; and called that city Enoch, after the name of his eldest son Enoch. Now Jared was the son of Enoch; whose son was Malaleel; whose son was Mathusela; whose son was Lamech; who had seventy-seven children by two wives, Silla and Ada. Of those children by Ada, one was Jabal; he erected tents, and loved the life of a shepherd. But Jubal, who was born of the same mother with him, exercised himself in music; and invented the psaltery and the harp. But Tubal, one of his children by the other wife, exceeded all men in strength, and was very expert and famous in martial performances. He procured what tended to the pleasures of the body by that method; and first of all invented the art of making brass. Lamech was also the father of a daughter, whose name was Naamah; and because that he knew he was to be punished for Cains's murder of his brother, he made that known to his wives. Nay, even while Adam was alive, it came to pass that the posterity of Cain became exceedingly wicked, every one successively dying one after the other, more wicked than the former. They were intolerable in war, and vehement in robberies; and if any one were slow to murder people, yet was he bold in his profligate behaviour, in acting unjustly, and doing injury for gain.

- Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, A.D. 93

file:///D:/DOCUME%7E1/David/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg

Such is the individual Tubal Cain that Freemasonry puts on a pedestal for all Masons to emulate.

file:///D:/DOCUME%7E1/David/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Mathew, Chapter 23





Perdition


It is evident that in a general way, this doctrine of Freemasonry is not only a heresy, nor even the totality of all heresies, which find in it a haven; it is a fact that Masonry goes beyond the limits of what constitutes what is generally ascribed to the word 'heresy,' for it allows full play to the commission of outrageous perversion. Freemasonry is indeed the abyss of all errors, the well of perdition.

The Holy See.

http://freemasonrywatch.org/tubalcain.html

[eternal_spirit]

(c) God then formed Lilith, the first woman, just as He had formed Adam, except that he used filth and sediment instead of pure dust.
From Adam's union with this demoness, and with another like her named Naamah, Tubal Cain's sister,

sprang Asmodeus and innumerable demons that still plague mankind. Many generations later, Lilith and Naamah came to Solomon's judgement seat, disguised as harlots of Jerusalem. [Yalqut Reubeni ad. Gen. II. 21; IV. 8]

Read more here
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=314594&postcount=18

[chestnutlodge]

Hows this

http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/T/TUBAL-CAIN/

TUBAL-CAIN

tu'-bal-kan (tubhal qayin): One of the sons of Lamech (Gen 4:22). He is a brother of Jabal and Jubal, who appear to have been the founders of several industries and articles The text (loTesh kol choresh nechosheth u-bharzel) has been the cause of endless dispute. Holzinger and Gunkel hold that laTash was a marginal gloss to charash, and that, as in Gen 4:20 and 21, there stood before kal originally hu hayah 'abhi. This would make Tubal-cain the founder of the metal industry, and place him in a class similar to that of his brothers. The Septuagint, however, has no equivalent of qayin. This omission leads Dillmann, Wellhausen, and others to the position that "Tubal" originally stood alone, and qayin, being a later addition, was translated "smith." Many commentators identify Tubal with the Assyrian Tubal, a people living Southwest of the Black Sea; in later times they were called "Tibareni" (Ezek 27:13). Tubal may be the eponymous ancestor of these people, whose principal industry seems to have been the manufacture of vessels of bronze and iron.
Horace J. Wolf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubal_Cain

Lamech (pronounced /ˈleɪmɛk/) (Hebrew: לֶמֶך-Lemech) is the name of two men in the genealogies of Adam in the book of Genesis. One is the sixth generation descendant of Cain (Genesis 4:18); his father was named Methusael and he was responsible for the "Song of the Sword." He is also noted as the first polygamist mentioned in the Bible, taking two wives, Ada and Tselah. The other Lamech is an eighth generation descendant of Seth (Genesis 5:25). He is the son of Methuselah and was the father of Noah (Genesis 5:29).

Because of the similarities between the two lines, some critical scholarship regards both Lamechs as one and the same individual. Many conservative scholars see no reason to confuse the two. One tradition from Genesis Rabba, relayed by Rashi's comment on Genesis 4:22, indicates that Na'amah, the daughter of Tselah and Lamech, son of Methushael, was the wife of Noah, the son of the other Lamech (son of Methuselah).

Contents [hide]
1 Biblical context
2 The names
2.1 Interpretation
3 The Song of the Sword



[edit] Biblical context
Sandwiched between two genealogical lines, the passage describing Lamech, son of Methushael, descendant of Cain and his children is fairly substantive:

Lamech had two wives: Adah, and Tsilah. Adah gave birth to Yaval, the father of tent-dwellers, and cattle owners. His brother was Yuval, the father of harpists, and pipers. Tsilah, on the other hand, gave birth to Tuval-Cain, who instructed the artificers of brass and iron. Tuval-Cain's sister was Naamah. And Lamech said to Adah and Tsilah, his wives:
Hear my voice: ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech:
For I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy-sevenfold.
Genesis 4:19-24 in paraphrase
Genesis 5:25-31 records that the other Lamech, the son of Methuselah, was 182 years old at the birth of Noah; and that he lived for another 595 years after this, making his age at death 777 years (or just a few years before the Flood). With such numbers in this geneaological account, calculations such as those of Archbishop Ussher would suggest that Adam was still alive for about the first 50 years of Lamech's life.


[edit] The names
There are various suggestions of the correct translations for the names:

Name Hebrew Possible translations
Lamech לָמֶךְ Pauper (via Hebrew), Priest/Servant of God (via Akkadian)
Adah עָדָה Ornament, Dawn
Zillah צִלָּה Shadow
Jabal יָבָל Shepherd
Jubal יוּבָל The ram's horn, Musician, (also) stream
Tubal-Cain תּוּבַל קַיִן Thou wilt be brought of Cain (not translating Cain), Blacksmith (translating Cain)
Naamah נַעֲמָה Beautiful, Pleasure

The older Septuagint, unlike the Masoretic Text, does not present the name Tubal rather than Tubal-Cain.

Translating the names as well, it is possible to read the text of the story of Lamech as:

God's servant took two wives, light and darkness. The light brought forth the shepherd, who was the father of tent-dwellers, and herdsmen, and his brother was the musician, who was the father of harpists and pipers. But the darkness brought forth the blacksmith, the forger of brass, and of iron, and his sister was pleasure.

[edit] Interpretation
When fully translated, the text has a strong resemblance simply to a basic mythology concerning the origin of the various forms of civilisation, the shepherds and musicians being products of the day, and pleasure being a product of the night. Blacksmiths, in carrying out their trade, are also associated with the darkness. Thus, in a sense, Lamech could be interpreted as a culture hero. Some of the names also appear to demonstrate punning - Jabal, Jubal, and Tubal rhyme, and appear to be derived from the same root - JBL (YVL in modern Hebrew): to bring forth, (also) to carry. A similar description existed amongst Phoenicians.

The names are instead interpreted in the Midrash as an attack on polygamy. Adah is there interpreted as the deposed one, implying that Lamech spurned her in favour of Zillah, whose own name is understood to mean she shaded herself [from Zillah at Lamech's side]. The Midrash consequently regards Adah as having been treated as a slave, tyrannised by her husband, who was at the beck and call of his mistress, Zillah. It further goes on to claim that part of the immorality, which had led God to flood the earth, was the polygamy practised by Lamech and his generation.

The rabbinical tradition is just as condemning of Naamah. While a minority, such as Abba ben Kahana, see Naamah as having become Noah's wife, and being so named because her conduct was pleasing to God, the majority of classical rabbinical sources consider her name to be due to her singing pleasant songs in worship of idols.


[edit] The Song of the Sword
The last part of the tale of Lamech (Genesis 4:23-24), takes the form of a brief poem, which refers back to the curse of Cain. In the poem, Lamech's stance resembles that of a supreme warrior, able to avenge himself absolutely. However, no explanation of who Lamech supposedly killed is ever given in the Tanakh. Some scholars have proposed that it is connected to the invention, contextually by Tubal-Cain, of the sword, for which reason the poem is often referred to as the Song of the Sword. The poem may originate from the mysterious Book of the Wars of the Lord, though the greater context for it is likely to remain obscure.

However, this paucity of context did not stop a rabbinical tradition growing up around it. The Talmud and Midrash present an extensive legend, told, for example, by Rashi, in which Lamech first loses his sight from age, and had to be led by Tubal-Cain, the seventh generation from Cain. Tubal-Cain saw in the distance something that he first took for an animal, but it was actually Cain (still alive, due to the extensive life span of the antediluvians) whom Lamech had accidentally killed with an arrow. When they discovered who it was, Lamech, in sorrow, clapped his hands together, which (for an unclear reason) kills Tubal-Cain. In consequence, Lamech's wives desert him. A similar legend is preserved in the pseudepigraphic Second Book of Adam and Eve, Chapter XIII; in this version Tubal-Cain is not named, but is instead referred to as "the young shepherd." After Lamech claps his hands he strikes the young shepherd on the head. To ensure his death, he then smashed his head with a rock.

An alternate form of this negative attitude towards Lamech (such as Targum Pseudo-Jonathan) claims that even though Lamech did not kill anyone, his wives refused to associate with him and denied him sex, on the grounds that Cain's line was to be annihilated after seven generations. The poem is then given by Lamech to allay their fears. Other classical sources, such as Josephus, see the word seventy-seven as the number of sons which Lamech eventually had.

Extending on this classical view of Lamech is the Book of Moses, regarded in Mormonism as scripture. According to this Latter-day Saint text, Lamech entered into a secret pact with Satan, as had Cain before him, becoming a second Master Mahan. When Irad (an ancestor of Lamech) learned his secret and began to publicise it, Lamech murdered him. News of the murder was spread by Lamech's two wives, leading to his being cast out of society.

[intruder]

and I think the reference to male genitalia is a little bit more than overt...

2 balls and a cane.

-just a coincidence dear, nothing to worry about

[eternal_spirit]

and I think the reference to male genitalia is a little bit more than overt...

2 balls and a cane.

-just a coincidence dear, nothing to worry about
..............................

Well spotted LOL.

The masons apron represents Adam's fig leaf.

[chestnutlodge]

It may just rhyme with the two words! No more and no less.


The masons apron represents Adam's fig leaf - How??

[eternal_spirit]

It may just rhyme with the two words! No more and no less.


The masons apron represents Adam's fig leaf - How??
..................


I don't know the reason, was something I heard and cannot remember the meaning, but it seems possible. Will post if I find out.

[chestnutlodge]

..................


I don't know the reason, was something I heard and cannot remember the meaning, but it seems possible. Will post if I find out.

Now this I am afraid is where the problem lies. I am not picking on you but just highlighting what has happened. You state in a post that the masons apron represents Adams fig leaf. When asked why, you at least have the courtesy to say that you do not know, and can not remember the meaning.

Now if you had not given that rider an easily influenced person will read the post and to them it is a fact that the apron is like Adams fig leaf. There is nothing to back it up.

Greenleaf - this was a word used originally used in a masonic side order. That was dropped some time ago and replaced.

[thelonious]

..................


I don't know the reason, was something I heard and cannot remember the meaning, but it seems possible. Will post if I find out.

The Masonic apron representing a fig leaf is a Mormon interpretation, not the Masonic one.

[eternal_spirit]

The Masonic apron representing a fig leaf is a Mormon interpretation, not the Masonic one.
......................

Okay, but aren't some of the Mormon ceremonies, rituals same as Freemasonry, I think Mormonism is another branch of the Masonic tree.


Joseph Smith admitted to being a Mason in his History of the Church, volume 4, page 551. Under the date of March 15, 1842 it reads: "In the evening I received the first degree in Free Masonry in the Nauvoo Lodge, assembled in my general business office." The record for the next day reads, "I was with the Masonic Lodge and rose to the sublime degree" (page 552).

Mormonism and Masonry
Masonry's influence on Mormonism and Joseph Smith has been noted by a number of historians. Some of the areas impacted by Masonic lore and ritual include the Book of Mormon, Joseph's personal life, and the LDS temple ceremony.
Masonic Themes Related to the Book of Mormon. John L. Brooke in his book The Refiner's Fire: The Making of Mormon Cosmology, 1644-1844, noted the following in reference to the story of the discovery of the gold plates and the narrative structure of the Book of Mormon:

Freemasonry provides a point of entry into this very complex story. As it had been in Vermont, Masonic fraternity was a dominant feature of the cultural landscape in Joseph Smith's Ontario County. . . . The dense network of lodges and chapters helps explain the Masonic symbolism that runs through the story of the discovery of the Golden Plates. Most obviously, the story of their discovery in a stone vault on a hilltop echoed the Enoch myth of Royal Arch Freemasonry, in which the prophet Enoch, instructed by a vision, preserved the Masonic mysteries by carving them on a golden plate that he placed in an arched stone vault marked with pillars, to be rediscovered by Solomon. In the years to come the prophet Enoch would play a central role in Smith's emerging cosmology. Smith's stories of his discoveries got more elaborate with time, and in June 1829 he promised Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer and Martin Harris that they would see not only the plates but other marvelous artifacts: the Urim and Thummim attached to a priestly breastplate, the 'sword of Laban,' and 'miraculous directors.' Oliver Cowdery and Lucy Mack Smith later described three or four small pillars holding up the plates. All of these artifacts had Masonic analogues.
. . . Smith's sources for these Masonic symbols were close at hand. Most obviously, Oliver Cowdery would have been a source, given that his father and brother were Royal Arch initiates; one Palmyra resident remembered Oliver Cowdery as 'no church member and a Mason.' . . . A comment by Lucy Mack Smith in her manuscript written in the 1840s, protesting that the family did not abandon all household labor to try 'to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth-saying,' suggests a familiarity with Masonic manuals: the 'faculty of Abrac' was among the supposed Masonic mysteries (Refiner's Fire, Cambridge University Press, 1994, pp. 157-158).



and on it goes read here

http://www.irr.org/mit/masonry.html

[thelonious]

......................

Okay, but aren't some of the Mormon ceremonies, rituals same as Freemasonry,

No, but aspects of Masonic ritual were plagiarized in the Mormon Temple ceremony. In the Mormon ritual, Adam and Eve appear wearing fig leaf aprons, while the devil appears wearing a Masonic apron.

[chestnutlodge]

......................

Okay, but aren't some of the Mormon ceremonies, rituals same as Freemasonry, I think Mormonism is another branch of the Masonic tree.


[/INDENT]

I am not a mormon so can not confirm that. But surely if there is similarities it is because the mormons have been influenced by masonic ceremonies not the other way round.

I can say that it is not a branch of freemasonry.

[thelonious]

I am not a mormon so can not confirm that. But surely if there is similarities it is because the mormons have been influenced by masonic ceremonies not the other way round.

I can say that it is not a branch of freemasonry.

Joseph Smith was a briefly a Mason, as were other high officials in the church. The Worshipful Master of Nauvoo Lodge in Illinois had converted to Mormonism, and irregularly initiated, passed, and raised hundred of Mormons, including Smith, in two days.

The Lodge complained to the Grand Lodge of Illinois, which prompted the Grand Master to expel the Lodge's Worshipful Master, along with Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and all the other Mormons.

Several months later, Smith wrote the Mormon Endowment ceremony, which was partly based on Masonic ritual. By this time, Smith had developed a grudge against Masonry, leading him to state that, "Just as Christianity is the apostate religion, so is Freemasonry the apostate Endowment".

Smith then pretended that his new Endowment ritual was thousands of years old, and that it was practiced in Solomon's Temple. He also pretended that it became corrupted and turned into Freemasonry, whereas he himself restored the "true" ritual (just like he claimed to have restored the "true" religion after it had been corrupted into Christianity).

[darketernal]

It may just rhyme with the two words! No more and no less.


The masons apron represents Adam's fig leaf - How??


Yes and that is why some Mason's where tie-clips with a cane and two balls on it, which clearly looks like male genitals. "Oh well.... they were just making a joke"

Chestnutlodge, there are no coincidences. :D

[chestnutlodge]

Yes and that is why some Mason's where tie-clips with a cane and two balls on it, which clearly looks like male genitals. "Oh well.... they were just making a joke"

Chestnutlodge, there are no coincidences. :D

Yes I know the lapel pin, I have one. If you know of anyone with genitals that look like that, a cane with a ball on each side, then they should see a doctor.

[mike martin]

The masons apron represents Adam's fig leaf.

Actually it's funny that you say that, it doesn't but it could, according to the Bible (rather than latter silliness) Adam and Eve did actually make themselves aprons of fig leaves.

Genesis 3:7 (KJV) 7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

This particular phrase from the Bible was picked up by some of our 18th century brethren when they were trying to write Freemasonry further back into history, hence you do come across books that start their history of Freemasonry with Adam and Eve.

It is a similar situation with the "egyptian" thing, some of the statuary at the temples of Karnak and Luxor show great beings wearing things that do look like aprons.

Mike

[mike martin]

Okay, but aren't some of the Mormon ceremonies, rituals same as Freemasonry, I think Mormonism is another branch of the Masonic tree.

I've read that too but I think it's in the same boat as Wicca being linked to Freemasonry. Wicca's founder Gerald Gardner was an ex-Freemason who wrote his ceremonies/rituals borrowing liberally from the Masonic ones.

It doesn't make it Masonic it's what we call quasi-Masonic in that it imitates Freemasonry.

Mike

[darketernal]

Yes I know the lapel pin, I have one. If you know of anyone with genitals that look like that, a cane with a ball on each side, then they should see a doctor.


None-the-less it is an obvious phallic symbol, and is not by accident. Are you certain you would not like to retract your previous statement?

[eternal_spirit]

I've read that too but I think it's in the same boat as Wicca being linked to Freemasonry. Wicca's founder Gerald Gardner was an ex-Freemason who wrote his ceremonies/rituals borrowing liberally from the Masonic ones.

It doesn't make it Masonic it's what we call quasi-Masonic in that it imitates Freemasonry.




Mike

...........................

Okay, yes I also discovered this about the Wicca movement...adds some proof to the "Culture Creators", theories, this link will expand on this.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=314986&postcount=32

Quote: mike Martin

This particular phrase from the Bible was picked up by some of our 18th century brethren when they were trying to write Freemasonry further back into history, hence you do come across books that start their history of Freemasonry with Adam and Eve.
............................



If Adam was made in the image of God, then maybe the fig leaf apron theory, may have been adopted to represent, the attempt via Masonry to eventually become the perfect man.

[chestnutlodge]

None-the-less it is an obvious phallic symbol, and is not by accident. Are you certain you would not like to retract your previous statement?

I would not say that it was an obvious phalic symbol at all, so no.

[thelonious]

None-the-less it is an obvious phallic symbol, and is not by accident. Are you certain you would not like to retract your previous statement?

While speaking of phallic symbols, Freud once noted that "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". Personally, I think that applies in this case.

[the guy in pink]

None-the-less it is an obvious phallic symbol, and is not by accident.
On a forum I used to frequent we had a contributer who saw every masonic symbol as a "obvious phallic symbol", from the candles in the lodge to the Washington Monument. He was so into his phallic symbols that he was known as Phallic Sam by all on the board, eventually went off the rails completely.

[thetonic]

On a forum I used to frequent we had a contributer who saw every masonic symbol as a "obvious phallic symbol", from the candles in the lodge to the Washington Monument. He was so into his phallic symbols that he was known as Phallic Sam by all on the board, eventually went off the rails completely.

So thats not a phallic symbol then?

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/washington_monument.jpg

[damagedbrainn]

On a forum I used to frequent we had a contributer who saw every masonic symbol as a "obvious phallic symbol", from the candles in the lodge to the Washington Monument. He was so into his phallic symbols that he was known as Phallic Sam by all on the board, eventually went off the rails completely.

An Obelisk (washington monument) is traditionally a phallic symbol. Whether or not the particular person who planned the monument in Washington intended it that way is a matter of debate....the meaning of symbols tend to change overtime after all. I mean, most people don't really see anything obscene about the May Pole anymore....or that little Catholic device shaped like a long rod which sprays out holy water from the tip when you shake it.

And the Two Ball Cane:

http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/07/34/ed/8c_1.JPG

Come on....It can't be said that it's definitely a phallus, but it's not too difficult to see why some would reach that conclusion.

A better question would be: What's so "evil" about sexual symbols? Are we really so prude?

[thetonic]

And the Two Ball Cane:

http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/07/34/ed/8c_1.JPG


A better question would be: What's so "evil" about sexual symbols? Are we really so prude?

symbols are the language of the subconscious .. Cmon damadged , i know you know the answer to this question.. Its not about prudeness, this is about mis direction of energy.. The mind that dwells on phallic symbols all day, will end up worshiping the phallus, and so on...

[chestnutlodge]

symbols are the language of the subconscious .. Cmon damadged , i know you know the answer to this question.. Its not about prudeness, this is about mis direction of energy.. The mind that dwells on phallic symbols all day, will end up worshiping the phallus, and so on...


Good Grief.

[jacob sladder]

symbols are the language of the subconscious .. Cmon damadged , i know you know the answer to this question.. Its not about prudeness, this is about mis direction of energy.. The mind that dwells on phallic symbols all day, will end up worshiping the phallus, and so on...

.....Sound like a cock-eyed notion to me!:D:D:D:D

[intruder]

the genitalia motif goes "deeper' than mere symbolism. The following excerpts are from Eustace Mullins' "The Curse of Canaan - A Demonology of History".

I haven't confirmed the etymology of certain words...but read on.

"The transgression of Cain, the first murderer, is of remarkable significance in tracing the development of occult organizations in history. The Hebrew word for Cain is Kajin, from Koon, to chant, and from which we derive the slang terms for persons of mixed race, Cajuns and coons. From Cain descended Tubal Cain, whose name is used as the secret password of Freemasonry. Tubal Cain was the son of Lamech, and brother to Noah, but he was born of a bigamous marriage. Tubal Cain became a blacksmith, and he later became renowned as the father of witchcraft and sorcery. His father, Lamech, was the son of Methuselah, of the line of Cain.....

Mullins goes on about mixed marriages and those who have gone "the way of Cain", that is "seeking after strange flesh"

the black and white squares in Masonic Lodges?

"the mixing of the races and the appearance of the devil in history are conjoined in the misdeeds of Cain. Cain is also reputed to have celebrated the first Black Mass, or Satanic Mass, on earth....."

"....the name Cain survives today in Freemasonry in two forms, which are integral to the most crucial tenets of this association. First of all, murder, the threat of murder, and the constant re-enactment of murder are basic to the most important Masonic rituals. Thus a direct link to the first murderer, Cain, is established by these rituals. The importance of the Cain legend to Freemasonry is also revealed by the fact that Cain slew his brother. In Freemasonry, if you are asked to act against your own brother in behalf of a fellow-Mason, you must do so, under pain of death. The name of Cain also survives in a second important element of Freemasonry. The secret password of Freemasonry is "Tubal Cain" (Heckethorn, "Secret Societies" p. 26)"

"Tubal Cain, a descendant of Cain, was the son of Lamech, the father of Noah, who had two wives, Adah and Zillah. "Zillah bore Tubal Cain; he was the forger of all instruments of bronze and iron. The sister of Tubal Cain was Naamah" (Genesis 4:22) Naamah's revelries with her blood relative, Ham, resulted in the Curse of Caanan; she is also recorded as the person who brought human sacrifice and cannibalism into the world."

"Ham's descendant by the Negro Cush, Nimrod, son of Cush, became the world's most demonic ruler, and the first ruler of the world. He used his power to indulge in sex orgies and child sacrifices, until Shem beheaded him for his offenses against God. Shem cut his body into pieces and sent these gory relics to the priests as a warning to cease and desist their vile practices of demonic worship. Instead, the priests hid the pieces, revering them as objects of worship, concealing them in their "groves" and "Shrines" as the first "Mysteries". The secret of the relics, or Mystery, was made known to initiates only after a long period of indoctrination, when they could be trusted not to betray the worshipers of Baal. This was the true origin of the "Mysteries", from which, as Albert Pike notes in "Morals and Dogma", all Masonic rites originate."

"The fate of Nimrod also survives in the myth of Osiris and his sister Isis. Osiris, another name for the Canaanite god Baal and his consort Ashtoreth or Isis, whose rites the Canaanites brought into Egypt, were worshiped as fertility gods."

[thetonic]

the genitalia motif goes "deeper' than mere symbolism. The following excerpts are from Eustace Mullins' "The Curse of Canaan - A Demonology of History".

I haven't confirmed the etymology of certain words...but read on.

"The transgression of Cain, the first murderer, is of remarkable significance in tracing the development of occult organizations in history. The Hebrew word for Cain is Kajin, from Koon, to chant, and from which we derive the slang terms for persons of mixed race, Cajuns and coons. From Cain descended Tubal Cain, whose name is used as the secret password of Freemasonry. Tubal Cain was the son of Lamech, and brother to Noah, but he was born of a bigamous marriage. Tubal Cain became a blacksmith, and he later became renowned as the father of witchcraft and sorcery. His father, Lamech, was the son of Methuselah, of the line of Cain.....

Mullins goes on about mixed marriages and those who have gone "the way of Cain", that is "seeking after strange flesh"

the black and white squares in Masonic Lodges?

"the mixing of the races and the appearance of the devil in history are conjoined in the misdeeds of Cain. Cain is also reputed to have celebrated the first Black Mass, or Satanic Mass, on earth....."

"....the name Cain survives today in Freemasonry in two forms, which are integral to the most crucial tenets of this association. First of all, murder, the threat of murder, and the constant re-enactment of murder are basic to the most important Masonic rituals. Thus a direct link to the first murderer, Cain, is established by these rituals. The importance of the Cain legend to Freemasonry is also revealed by the fact that Cain slew his brother. In Freemasonry, if you are asked to act against your own brother in behalf of a fellow-Mason, you must do so, under pain of death. The name of Cain also survives in a second important element of Freemasonry. The secret password of Freemasonry is "Tubal Cain" (Heckethorn, "Secret Societies" p. 26)"

"Tubal Cain, a descendant of Cain, was the son of Lamech, the father of Noah, who had two wives, Adah and Zillah. "Zillah bore Tubal Cain; he was the forger of all instruments of bronze and iron. The sister of Tubal Cain was Naamah" (Genesis 4:22) Naamah's revelries with her blood relative, Ham, resulted in the Curse of Caanan; she is also recorded as the person who brought human sacrifice and cannibalism into the world."

"Ham's descendant by the Negro Cush, Nimrod, son of Cush, became the world's most demonic ruler, and the first ruler of the world. He used his power to indulge in sex orgies and child sacrifices, until Shem beheaded him for his offenses against God. Shem cut his body into pieces and sent these gory relics to the priests as a warning to cease and desist their vile practices of demonic worship. Instead, the priests hid the pieces, revering them as objects of worship, concealing them in their "groves" and "Shrines" as the first "Mysteries". The secret of the relics, or Mystery, was made known to initiates only after a long period of indoctrination, when they could be trusted not to betray the worshipers of Baal. This was the true origin of the "Mysteries", from which, as Albert Pike notes in "Morals and Dogma", all Masonic rites originate."

"The fate of Nimrod also survives in the myth of Osiris and his sister Isis. Osiris, another name for the Canaanite god Baal and his consort Ashtoreth or Isis, whose rites the Canaanites brought into Egypt, were worshiped as fertility gods."

Very interesting excerpt intruder.. Mullins is a man that knows his shit!

[thelonious]

Very interesting excerpt intruder.. Mullins is a man that knows his shit!

I don't think so. For example:

Ham's descendant by the Negro Cush, Nimrod, son of Cush, became the world's most demonic ruler, and the first ruler of the world. He used his power to indulge in sex orgies and child sacrifices, until Shem beheaded him for his offenses against God. Shem cut his body into pieces and sent these gory relics to the priests as a warning to cease and desist their vile practices of demonic worship. Instead, the priests hid the pieces, revering them as objects of worship, concealing them in their "groves" and "Shrines" as the first "Mysteries".

C'mon guys. That's got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read. :rolleyes:

[intruder]

I don't think so. For example:



C'mon guys. That's got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read. :rolleyes:

it's "out there" isn't it? I'm just presenting information that I have encountered. he presents more in the book that I quoted from that I completely disagree with.

[thetonic]

C'mon guys. That's got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read. :rolleyes:

Stupid.. Maybe.. but no more stupid than half of the silliest traditions, doctrines, esoteric practices that go along with all religions.. ex.- Kneel down before a priest, open your mouth and take a piece of bread(flesh), drink the wine(blood)...

That is a practice still done today that originally had nothing to do with bread or wine but blood rituals.. Stupid huh?

[perry_mason]

Stupid.. Maybe.. but no more stupid than half of the silliest traditions, doctrines, esoteric practices that go along with all religions.. ex.- Kneel down before a priest, open your mouth and take a piece of bread(flesh), drink the wine(blood)...

That is a practice still done today that originally had nothing to do with bread or wine but blood rituals.. Stupid huh?

Ham's descendant by the Negro Cush, Nimrod, son of Cush, became the world's most demonic ruler, and the first ruler of the world. He used his power to indulge in sex orgies and child sacrifices, until Shem beheaded him for his offenses against God. Shem cut his body into pieces and sent these gory relics to the priests as a warning to cease and desist their vile practices of demonic worship. Instead, the priests hid the pieces, revering them as objects of worship, concealing them in their "groves" and "Shrines" as the first "Mysteries".

I don't see how this bizarre theory is comparable in terms of probability and validity in relation to current religious practises. I agree that they can both be construed as wierd, but in terms of argument I don't think you can justify that text by saying that holy communion is a bit strange as well.

[thetonic]

Ham's descendant by the Negro Cush, Nimrod, son of Cush, became the world's most demonic ruler, and the first ruler of the world. He used his power to indulge in sex orgies and child sacrifices, until Shem beheaded him for his offenses against God. Shem cut his body into pieces and sent these gory relics to the priests as a warning to cease and desist their vile practices of demonic worship. Instead, the priests hid the pieces, revering them as objects of worship, concealing them in their "groves" and "Shrines" as the first "Mysteries".

I don't see how this bizarre theory is comparable in terms of probability and validity in relation to current religious practises. I agree that they can both be construed as wierd, but in terms of argument I don't think you can justify that text by saying that holy communion is a bit strange as well.

Well i dont need to justify it , i didnt write the book.. I do however appreciate non traditional, non politically correct, interpretations of antiquated religions and mystery religions ... It opens the mind to new perspectives. And the little that i have read of Eustace Mullins has been spot on, he has been doing research into these matters for half a century

[perry_mason]

Well i dont need to justify it , i didnt write the book.. I do however appreciate non traditional, non politically correct, interpretations of antiquated religions and mystery religions ... It opens the mind to new perspectives. And the little that i have read of Eustace Mullins has been spot on, he has been doing research into these matters for half a century

Sorry Thetonic, I didn't mean to imply that you wanted to justify the statement. When I used "you" in the post I meant generically anyone, the correct term to have used would be "one", I suppose.:D I too am intrigued by the old religions but felt that the comparison made wasn't a valid one, but didn't mean anything personnal by it.

[thetonic]

Sorry Thetonic, I didn't mean to imply that you wanted to justify the statement. When I used "you" in the post I meant generically anyone, the correct term to have used would be "one", I suppose.:D I too am intrigued by the old religions but felt that the comparison made wasn't a valid one, but didn't mean anything personnal by it.

Eh, no worries.. We really are all in this together, sometimes people can be led astray, and or do things for the wrong reasons.. Just dont let Freemasonry go to your head, thats all..

[darketernal]

Check mate. I rest my case of it being a clear phallis, as well as the fact the every single proclaimed Mason on the thread said it clearly was not a phallis. Lie after lie after lie. At least you gentlemen are consistent in your lies.

Now that we have established that the Tubal Cain lapels look like an obvious penis and testicles... would any of the illuminated and worshipful masters care to tell us dark and ignorant folk the reasonS why that lapel is gold?

[thelonious]

Stupid.. Maybe.. but no more stupid than half of the silliest traditions, doctrines, esoteric practices that go along with all religions.. ex.- Kneel down before a priest, open your mouth and take a piece of bread(flesh), drink the wine(blood)...

That is a practice still done today that originally had nothing to do with bread or wine but blood rituals.. Stupid huh?

Maybe, or maybe it had (has?) a deeper significance. But my comment was directed to the guy's writings about Nimrod and the mysteries.

For example, in all probability, Nimrod never even existed, and is just a myth. The only documentation concerning him comes from the book of Genesis, and all the Bible really says about him is that he was "a mighty hunter before the Lord". Personally, I think he was the Hebrew version of Orion.

But that guy that the other member quoted is talking about sex orgies and cannibalism and human sacrifices, and all sorts of other things in connection to Nimrod. But the Bible doesn't say anything remotely like that. It seems to me it was all made up.

[thetonic]

Maybe, or maybe it had (has?) a deeper significance. But my comment was directed to the guy's writings about Nimrod and the mysteries.

For example, in all probability, Nimrod never even existed, and is just a myth. The only documentation concerning him comes from the book of Genesis, and all the Bible really says about him is that he was "a mighty hunter before the Lord". Personally, I think he was the Hebrew version of Orion.

But that guy that the other member quoted is talking about sex orgies and cannibalism and human sacrifices, and all sorts of other things in connection to Nimrod. But the Bible doesn't say anything remotely like that. It seems to me it was all made up.

Well i havent looked into the details of it, nor have i examined the book the quote is taken from, but Mullins is not one known to simply make stuff up.. Most of his research is backed by hard evidence such as documents, texts, etc. .. I doubt he made it up

[thetonic]

Check mate. I rest my case of it being a clear phallis, as well as the fact the every single proclaimed Mason on the thread said it clearly was not a phallis. Lie after lie after lie. At least you gentlemen are consistent in your lies.

Now that we have established that the Tubal Cain lapels look like an obvious penis and testicles... would any of the illuminated and worshipful masters care to tell us dark and ignorant folk the reasonS why that lapel is gold?

yes please do tell why the lapel is gold..

[perry_mason]

Eh, no worries.. We really are all in this together, sometimes people can be led astray, and or do things for the wrong reasons.. Just dont let Freemasonry go to your head, thats all..

How did you guess I was a Mason? :);)

How would I let Freemasonry go to my head? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Being a Freemason isn't a case of oneupmanship or feeling superior to other people (if thats what you meant), it's about making yourself a better person.

[darketernal]

Oh come now enlightened ones. You seem so eager to answer questions and your brotherhood is very keen on symbolism and sacred geometry. Let's hear the reasons why the tubal cain lapels look very much like a penis made of gold? What is the signifigance of this? Someone like me with no real knowledge of the craft can't be of much use here...perhaps one of you can toss an answer out on the square for us?

[mike martin]

Oh come now enlightened ones. You seem so eager to answer questions and your brotherhood is very keen on symbolism and sacred geometry. Let's hear the reasons why the tubal cain lapels look very much like a penis made of gold? What is the signifigance of this? Someone like me with no real knowledge of the craft can't be of much use here...perhaps one of you can toss an answer out on the square for us?

OK let's get real here for a moment.

What you've said about Obelisks looking phallic is probably right and was intentional for the Ancient Egyptians the whole 2balls and a cane thing is just an accident.

The badge is just a representation of a name from the Bible and there are many different versions of it depending on the particular manufacturer. For example, below is a picture that I have just taken of the one that I own:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd117/MikeM200Sx/Masonic/IMG_0004.jpg

It doesn't look as phallic as your choice, does it.

Now some important facts.

There is no "official" or "authorised" Masonic rendition of the pictorial representation of the word as it is just a piece of jewellry for Masons, it is not Masonic Regalia (ie the stuff we wear in the Lodge) so there are no rules as to what it looks like.

Why is it gold? The honest answer is why not? It is a piece of jewellry and gold jewellry is better looking than silver jewellry. That's all! There is no significance. The sprig of acacia and square & compasses badges are also usually gold.

Mike

[chestnutlodge]

Check mate. I rest my case of it being a clear phallis, as well as the fact the every single proclaimed Mason on the thread said it clearly was not a phallis. Lie after lie after lie. At least you gentlemen are consistent in your lies.

Now that we have established that the Tubal Cain lapels look like an obvious penis and testicles... would any of the illuminated and worshipful masters care to tell us dark and ignorant folk the reasonS why that lapel is gold?

It is a clear two balls and a cane thats all as has repeatedly been stated. I think freemasons should know what it looks like.

[icke and ham]

I dont see any signifficance about being gold. Why not, if its a lapel badge. I mean, anything made of tin would be wortless! let them have there gold badges, at least we can identify them. But mike doesn't seem to be a man who knosw what balls look like. :D

[perry_mason]

But mike doesn't seem to be a man who knosw what balls look like. :D

Now thats a bit below the belt, don't you think? :D

[darketernal]

OK let's get real here for a moment.

What you've said about Obelisks looking phallic is probably right and was intentional for the Ancient Egyptians the whole 2balls and a cane thing is just an accident.

The badge is just a representation of a name from the Bible and there are many different versions of it depending on the particular manufacturer. For example, below is a picture that I have just taken of the one that I own:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd117/MikeM200Sx/Masonic/IMG_0004.jpg

It doesn't look as phallic as your choice, does it.

Now some important facts.

There is no "official" or "authorised" Masonic rendition of the pictorial representation of the word as it is just a piece of jewellry for Masons, it is not Masonic Regalia (ie the stuff we wear in the Lodge) so there are no rules as to what it looks like.

Why is it gold? The honest answer is why not? It is a piece of jewellry and gold jewellry is better looking than silver jewellry. That's all! There is no significance. The sprig of acacia and square & compasses badges are also usually gold.

Mike

It still looks like a penis and testicles. Mike let's behonest here. You may convince a few readers that this piece of symbolism is just a coincidence but you and I both know it is intended to represent the golden penis of osiris. Not only that, gold is representative of the sun and your religion is a sun-worship cult. There are no coincidences. The symbols your order uses are not done by accident...they are chosen very carefully. The truth is often hidden in plain sight.

With love,
Darketernal

[mike martin]

It still looks like a penis and testicles. Mike let's behonest here.
In common with all symbolism, it does if you want it to, to you but try not to put words into our mouths here, we have told you what it is. You are obviously free to keep barking up that tree but it doesn't mean that there is game up it.

You may convince a few readers that this piece of symbolism is just a coincidence but you and I both know it is intended to represent the golden penis of osiris. Not only that, gold is representative of the sun and your religion is a sun-worship cult. There are no coincidences. The symbols your order uses are not done by accident...they are chosen very carefully. The truth is often hidden in plain sight.
As above really. You have made up your mind what you think it is and that's fine BUT it doesn't make it so.

PS it doesn't look like mine, if it did I would be a porn star
Mike

[darketernal]

In common with all symbolism, it does if you want it to, to you but try not to put words into our mouths here, we have told you what it is. You are obviously free to keep barking up that tree but it doesn't mean that there is game up it.


As above really. You have made up your mind what you think it is and that's fine BUT it doesn't make it so.

PS it doesn't look like mine, if it did I would be a porn star
Mike

By that same token, just because you say it doesn't, does not make it so. Logic would hold that if even a fraction of the negative things said about your order are true that there would be people doing exactally what you are doing on forums such as this. This is by no means evidence that they are, only a perspective to consider.

[mike martin]

By that same token, just because you say it doesn't, does not make it so.
Let me put it this way. It is a pictorial representation of a Masonic password and I'm a Mason. So I know what it is inended to be, I only have to be a Master Mason to have come across it in the Ritual which I have been for 13 years. So I can tell you with some authority what it means to a Mason, you can tell us what it means to you. Do you see what I mean now?

Here's an example what does the swastika symbolise?

Logic would hold that if even a fraction of the negative things said about your order are true
Well so far the only thing that has turned out to be true here is that Albert Pike (a Mason who died 120 years ago) was in fact involved with the Klu Klux Klan, however, he was not a founder of it. Is that a small enough fraction for it to count.

I would counter that by saying that if only a fraction of what is said here is true that you're all being misled and buying into a rather large pack of lies, misinterpretations and misdirections.

that there would be people doing exactally what you are doing on forums such as this. This is by no means evidence that they are, only a perspective to consider.
Yeah, you lost me here big time! What exactly am I doing?

Mike

[thelonious]

Well so far the only thing that has turned out to be true here is that Albert Pike (a Mason who died 120 years ago) was in fact involved with the Klu Klux Klan

Where was that shown?

In his writings ("Symbolism of the Blue Degrees"), Pike himself states that the only Society besides Freemasonry that he was a member of were the Oddfellows. Secondly, Nathan Bedford Forrest's memoires concerning the founding of the Klan up until he disbanded it, does not mention Pike even once, although all the other leaders and officers of the Klan are given long eulogies.

Lastly, the Ku Klux Klan only admits Protestant Christians as members. In "Morals and Dogma", Pike states several times that he opposes all organizations that admit only people from one religious sect, and champions Freemasonry because it is universal and non-sectarian.

In all probability, Albert Pike was never a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

[damagedbrainn]

Where was that shown?

In his writings ("Symbolism of the Blue Degrees"), Pike himself states that the only Society besides Freemasonry that he was a member of were the Oddfellows. Secondly, Nathan Bedford Forrest's memoires concerning the founding of the Klan up until he disbanded it, does not mention Pike even once, although all the other leaders and officers of the Klan are given long eulogies.

Lastly, the Ku Klux Klan only admits Protestant Christians as members. In "Morals and Dogma", Pike states several times that he opposes all organizations that admit only people from one religious sect, and champions Freemasonry because it is universal and non-sectarian.

In all probability, Albert Pike was never a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

Pike was also opposed to secession from the Union prior to the Civil War, but that didn't stop him from joining the Confederate Army once the war began. He also claimed to be opposed to slavery, but clearly did not mind defending its practice with a gun.

And then there's this editorial which Pike wrote in response to the Black suffrage movement, which is so often disingenuously excused:

"With negroes for witnesses and jurors, the administration of justice becomes a blasphemous mockery. A Loyal League of negroes can cause any white man to be arrested, and can prove any charges it chooses to have made against him. ...The disenfranchised people of the South ... can find no protection for property, liberty or life, except in secret association.... We would unite every white man in the South, who is opposed to negro suffrage, into one great Order of Southern Brotherhood, with an organization complete, active, vigorous, in which a few should execute the concentrated will of all, and whose very existence should be concealed from all but its members."

As said here....

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/kkk.html

......this does not prove that he founded the KKK or that he was even a member; however, he did share many of their concerns. He obviously believed that the freedom of Blacks was a significant threat to the South, and the Klan was formed to counter that supposed threat to the southern way of life.

To draw a comparison: The filmmaker D.W. Griffith was never a Klan member; however, he still made the film Birth of a Nation which both glorified the Klan and its principles and inspired its resurgence in the south. Does it really matter that he was never actually a member?

[thelonious]

Pike was also opposed to secession from the Union prior to the Civil War, but that didn't stop him from joining the Confederate Army once the war began. He also claimed to be opposed to slavery, but clearly did not mind defending its practice with a gun.

I would argue that Pike was not a defender of slavery. It was Pike, after all, who sponsored legislation in the Confederate Congress to end slavery. His position on slavery is given in great detail in his collection of essays published under the title of "Letters To The Northern States".

And then there's this editorial which Pike wrote in response to the Black suffrage movement, which is so often disingenuously excused:

I don't think we should excuse such a thing. On the other hand, we should recognize the fact that, over the years, he changed his mind and his position.

For example, Albert Pike did not become a Mason until in his early middle age (he was 41 years old when he was initiated as an Entered Apprentice). By this time, he had developed certain attitudes that were prevalent in the south at that period concerning race.

What is interesting, however, is that the more Pike studied and involved himself in Freemasonry, the more his original ideas changed. As a relatively new Mason, he wrote that he would not accept a Negro as a fellow Mason. But by the time he wrote "Morals and Dogma", his attitude had changed completely, and he presented his revised ritual as a gift to the Prince Hall Scottish Rite Supreme Council, which in turn initiated a close friendship between Pike and Ill. Bro. Thornton A. Jackson, 33°, the African-American Sovereign Grand Commander of the Prince Hall Council.

[mike martin]

Where was that shown?

In all probability, Albert Pike was never a member of the Ku Klux Klan

My earlier post gives the url to my source, it is the KKK's history page on their website, so they are an impartial source in terms of this discussion. They claim that Pike was the whatever it was I wrote.

To be honest I'm not particularly bothered if he was or he wasn't, his book was interesting but of no relevance to Freemasonry in Britain and he has been dead for 120 years so it's a bit late for recriminations.

Mike

[intruder]

the only time I was approached by a Mason and encouraged to join was when he found me reading Manly P. Hall's Secret Teachings of all Ages on a break at work. He didn't "solicit" my membership immediately, but would come in from time to time and then he "popped the question." He effectively sealed the lid on the coffin. I had NO interest aside from seeing what the rituals comprise. When I started to discuss various elements of Kabbalah he just shut right down and showed NO interest in what I was saying at all.
I emailed the Grand Lodge of England inquiring if it was normal to solicit membership and they said "no, this brother was acting out of accord with our regulations."

he DID show me his pretty gold ring though!!! oh yes!!! with a pretty blue stone and an even prettier yod in the center. he told me that "I had to do something to acquire this ring!" and I said, "well....that's not too mysterious." when I asked him if he had considered the yod as part of what is known as "the general projective principle". the yod (hand) as described by Stan Tenen as representative of this unfurling principle. it's related to a golden mean spiral but has its own unique properties.

see

www.meru.org

[intruder]

then I took a trip to Chicago to check out Masonic Temples. everywhere I went...the same limestone temples. temples without windows. Don't get me wrong, privacy is important...but every building had that same foreboding vibe.
A friend of mines father in law is a "Knights Templar" and lawyer. He too showed NO interest in discussing esoteric matters at all.

[thelonious]

A friend of mines father in law is a "Knights Templar" and lawyer. He too showed NO interest in discussing esoteric matters at all.

Although it is unfortunate, probably about 95% of Masons today don't even know what "esoteric" means. :rolleyes:

[mike martin]

then I took a trip to Chicago to check out Masonic Temples. everywhere I went...the same limestone temples. temples without windows. Don't get me wrong, privacy is important...but every building had that same foreboding vibe.

That's strange and I'm not entirely sure what you were actually looking at. There are 2 Masonic buildings in Chicago, here's a picture of Gale Street where 6 of Chicago's 9 Lodges meet and even on the Net I can see the windows:
http://www.ilafam1075.com/Pics/1075%20pics/JeffTemple1/JeffTemple2.JPG

maybe it's because there were no pyramids or obelisks!!:D:D:D

Of course you could have saved yourself the wasted trip by doing what I did and visit the secret website of the Illinois Freemasons: http://www.ilmason.org/gl.html
Mike

[mike martin]

I dont see any signifficance about being gold. Why not, if its a lapel badge. I mean, anything made of tin would be wortless! let them have there gold badges, at least we can identify them. But mike doesn't seem to be a man who knosw what balls look like. :D

That'll teach me for not reading to the bottom of the post.

Fellah, phallic doesn't mean balls it means something dangly!

Mike

[tanuki]

Up here in northern BC the lodges are all boarded up and seem to be up for sale with real estate signs all over...
What if Tubal was a nickname, kind of like he was always showing off his gifted package or something. There was a guy here who was quite fond of whipping the twig and berries out at every chance to anyone who fancied a look or not. Maybe he wore a dark trenchcoat too...something to ponder or not.:rolleyes:
Dark eternal, what is up with your fascination with deformed genitalia and male genitalia in general...At best, those lapels might be someone with two warts but no way it is what you want it to be, sorry.

[intruder]

That's strange and I'm not entirely sure what you were actually looking at. There are 2 Masonic buildings in Chicago, here's a picture of Gale Street where 6 of Chicago's 9 Lodges meet and even on the Net I can see the windows:
http://www.ilafam1075.com/Pics/1075%20pics/JeffTemple1/JeffTemple2.JPG

maybe it's because there were no pyramids or obelisks!!:D:D:D

Of course you could have saved yourself the wasted trip by doing what I did and visit the secret website of the Illinois Freemasons: http://www.ilmason.org/gl.html
Mike

ah, no...there are more than just two Masonic temples in Chicago.

[intruder]

but I'm more interested in secret societies like skull and bones who invoke the "jolly roger". A Cons - PIRACY! Robert Lovett, architect of saturation bombing of civilians. Averell Harriman funded Stalin, commitiing 500 tanks per month. Daddy Bush, georgie bush....sounds like a real treat!!

[intruder]

and those windows in the above photo are peripheral, the temple "proper" will have no windows.

[thetonic]

http://www.ilafam1075.com/Pics/1075%20pics/JeffTemple1/JeffTemple2.JPG

maybe it's because there were no pyramids or obelisks!!:D:D:D

: http://www.ilmason.org/gl.html
Mike

The symbolic pyramid is sitting right above the doorway, and im sure there is all kinds of phallic paraphenilia once you get inside

[thetonic]

Up here in northern BC the lodges are all boarded up and seem to be up for sale with real estate signs all over...

Aye, I drive by a masonic library on my way to work everyday, and i just saw a for sale sign go up in front of it.

I say good riddance if i cant use the library without taking an oath..


What if Tubal was a nickname, kind of like he was always showing off his gifted package or something. There was a guy here who was quite fond of whipping the twig and berries out at every chance to anyone who fancied a look or not. Maybe he wore a dark trenchcoat too...something to ponder or not.:rolleyes:
Dark eternal, what is up with your fascination with deformed genitalia and male genitalia in general...At best, those lapels might be someone with two warts but no way it is what you want it to be, sorry.[/QUOTE]

Thats not what hes talking about at all. Deformed? You are missing the point entirely. They wouldnt make an impression of an actual penis and go around wearing it on their lapel.. Its called SYMBOLISM! What the fuck other type of cane has two balls attached to it?:rolleyes:

[mike martin]

The symbolic pyramid is sitting right above the doorway, and im sure there is all kinds of phallic paraphenilia once you get inside

Oh good grief, that is a triangle, which has been borrowed and used as a symbol by Freemasonry, a pyramid has more sides to it and isn't a Masonic symbol.

Mike

[thetonic]

Oh good grief, that is a triangle, which has been borrowed and used as a symbol by Freemasonry, a pyramid has more sides to it and isn't a Masonic symbol.

Mike

when one converts a three dimensional object to a two dimensional representation, you will lose certain aspects of the original. No? Who and why did the Masons borrow the "triangle" from? As if you can copyright a triangle?

[mike martin]

when one converts a three dimensional object to a two dimensional representation, you will lose certain aspects of the original. No? Who and why did the Masons borrow the "triangle" from? As if you can copyright a triangle?

Two points:
1 That's not a two dimensional object though is it? and

2 You're right that you can choose to not represent a pyramid in a 2 dimensional image however it is easy to do so. What's this?

http://northumbria.ac.uk/static/images/schoolimages/oh_pyramid.jpg

The triangle has been borrowed from Christianity, they are very common in churches. It was used long before Freemasonry came about, to represent God and his triune nature (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

Obviously, it's not difficult to copyright an image, look at any famous logo you can think of. However, I didn't mention copyright, I just said it was an existing symbol (for God) which Freemasonry has borrowed.

Mike

[intruder]

and there's a difference between a pyramid and a tetrahedron. the triangle is most likely a flat representation of the lowest order form in 3 dimensions.
who did Plato borrow it from?

[intruder]

the tetrahedron represents the classical element...FIRE.

Intersesting that the Schlaffli symbol for the tetrahedron is {3,3}

[intruder]

from point, to line, to surface, to 3 dimensions. they most likely use the lowest (least 'complicated') of the Platonic solids, the tetrahedron, as symbolic of joining the "lowest order" of the Brotherhood. this "lowest order" business confirms why every Mason that I have met has NO interest in discussing these things, or perhaps, they just don't talk to the "profane".

[thetonic]

Two points:
1 That's not a two dimensional object though is it? and

2 You're right that you can choose to not represent a pyramid in a 2 dimensional image however it is easy to do so. What's this?

http://northumbria.ac.uk/static/images/schoolimages/oh_pyramid.jpg

The triangle has been borrowed from Christianity, they are very common in churches. It was used long before Freemasonry came about, to represent God and his triune nature (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

Obviously, it's not difficult to copyright an image, look at any famous logo you can think of. However, I didn't mention copyright, I just said it was an existing symbol (for God) which Freemasonry has borrowed.

Mike

Ahh yes turn the face of your pyramid to the left 8 degress and you have : viola! a triangle...

Could you show me some physical representations of the these Christian triangles , as i have never seen them in a christian church(not that i go too often)...

And do you think it was christians, who were the first people to think of the triangle as a symbol?

I was being facetious when mentioning a copyright, of course there are loads of companies out there who incorporate a triangle into their logos. So obvioulsly one cannot actually own a copyright to the shape of a triangle:rolleyes:

[intruder]

from point, to line, to surface, to 3 dimensions. they most likely use the lowest (least 'complicated') of the Platonic solids, the tetrahedron, as symbolic of joining the "lowest order" of the Brotherhood. this "lowest order" business confirms why every Mason that I have met has NO interest in discussing these things, or perhaps, they just don't talk to the "profane".
?

[thelonious]

when one converts a three dimensional object to a two dimensional representation, you will lose certain aspects of the original. No? Who and why did the Masons borrow the "triangle" from? As if you can copyright a triangle?

The Scottish Rite acknowledges that the Triangle as a symbol was borrowed from the Pythagoreans. In that Rite of Masonry, the Triangle always represents the Triune nature of both God and man.

[intruder]

whereas the "members" of Skull and Bones have balls the shape of polyhedra!! and what's more, they can juggle them!!!

[intruder]

The Scottish Rite acknowledges that the Triangle as a symbol was borrowed from the Pythagoreans. In that Rite of Masonry, the Triangle always represents the Triune nature of both God and man.
the triune nature of God and man?

[thetonic]

whereas the "members" of Skull and Bones have balls the shape of polyhedra!! and what's more, they can juggle them!!!

:D

[thelonious]

the triune nature of God and man?

Yes, as interpreted by the Platonists, Gnostics, and Christian mystics.

According to mystical tradition, God exists as a Trinity. This has been expressed in different forms. The Platonists described the Trinity as the Spirit, the Logos or Word, and the Word in action. Christian mystics describe it as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Plato dealt with the triune nature of the soul in the Republic. Here, it was determined that the human soul consists of three aspects: Reason, Spirit, and the passions or animal instincts.

[intruder]

Yes, as interpreted by the Platonists, Gnostics, and Christian mystics.

According to mystical tradition, God exists as a Trinity. This has been expressed in different forms. The Platonists described the Trinity as the Spirit, the Logos or Word, and the Word in action. Christian mystics describe it as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Plato dealt with the triune nature of the soul in the Republic. Here, it was determined that the human soul consists of three aspects: Reason, Spirit, and the passions or animal instincts.

fair enough....

[intruder]

then there is this expression in the modern lexicon of "tapping", as in, "I'd 'tap' that ass!", or, "would you 'tap' it?"

in Skull and Bones you don't apply for membership. you get TAPPED!!!

[mike martin]

Could you show me some physical representations of the these Christian triangles , as i have never seen them in a christian church(not that i go too often)...

I'm on my way so in a bit of a rush try google image search for church pulpit triangle In the meantime here is a really good one that I did find, here's the rest of the site http://www.themostholytrinity.org/interior2.htm :

http://www.themostholytrinity.org/images/ceiltrinity.jpg

See anything else interesting???:D


And do you think it was christians, who were the first people to think of the triangle as a symbol?

Highly unlikely just like every other organistion they took an extant symbol and gave it their own meaning then used it. Even the cross and icthus aren't original Christian symbols. Did you know that even the pentacle (aka pentagram) has been used by Christians, to represent the five wounds of Christ??

Another example of symbols being given new meanings would be the Nazi's use of the swastika. 5,000 years of Hindu history wiped out in a decade.

Mike

[eternal_spirit]

I'm on my way so in a bit of a rush try google image search for church pulpit triangle In the meantime here is a really good one that I did find, here's the rest of the site http://www.themostholytrinity.org/interior2.htm :

http://www.themostholytrinity.org/images/ceiltrinity.jpg

See anything else interesting???:D




Highly unlikely just like every other organistion they took an extant symbol and gave it their own meaning then used it. Even the cross and icthus aren't original Christian symbols. Did you know that even the pentacle (aka pentagram) has been used by Christians, to represent the five wounds of Christ??

Another example of symbols being given new meanings would be the Nazi's use of the swastika. 5,000 years of Hindu history wiped out in a decade.



Mike

..........................

The Swastika has been found on Synagogue walls way back in time, would seem to be a universal symbol ( Sun symbol ) The original Aryans came form India maybe.


Biblical History and our Point of Power
Why the Japanese broadcast "Tora, Tora, Tora" (Torah?) when attacking Pearl Harbor. The Old Testament was written around 200-300 BC by 72 priests in Egypt who wrote it in Greek (not Hebrew) for the Jews who spoke Aramaic. The Kabala existed in ancient Egypt although added to after the 1500's. The Talmud was based on the Babylonian Talmud, updated and carried out of Babylon by the Pharisees and the Sadducees and it was then that Judaism began. Origin and symbolism of the Caduceus (western medical symbol). Tyrannical occupation of Egypt for 200 years or so by the Hyksos (Shepherd Kings) and the Habiru (mercenaries) who were a conglomeration of nomadic peoples from the northeast. And much more....

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=313989&postcount=40





Back to the Greeks again and the Egyptians. The Romans also took much of Greek culture, was it the Greeks who moved to Rome? Pythagorus claimed to have invented musical scales, and mathematics. Could the Greeks also have invented many symbols?

Tubal Cain ..... Where theres cock there's bollox :D

[eternal_spirit]

http://www.whale.to/b/images/1b.jpg

[intruder]

http://www.whale.to/b/images/1b.jpg


yes, with "G"....generation, a "geyser", between the divided...perhaps. Is THIS the book that they want you to swear upon in a court of law?

[intruder]

I have a book on Masonry that highlights fundamentals of the "craft". A pretty picture book for the layman. Anyway, there's a picture of the Bible open to the book of John. The verses are legible in the photograph but then they are slowly and deliberately obscured as you approach the end of this phrase. "and the tru............"

If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32-33).

32-33!! go figure.

[mike martin]

The Swastika has been found on Synagogue walls way back in time, would seem to be a universal symbol ( Sun symbol ) The original Aryans came form India maybe.
ES I am beginning to be disappointed in you, I thought you had a grip.

Everyone who knows anything know the Aryans were indo-iranian despite Hitler's later claims.

The swasitka (aka fylfot, aka gammadion, aka croiz gammée aka tetraskelion, aka sun wheel, aka nor bu bzhi -khyil) has been used by many religions and civilisations since its original use by the Hindus, its use dates back to the Neolithic period (that's 6,000 years ago) and predates most of the civilisations you have mentioned. It represents Brahma the Creator for Hindus.
Why the Japanese broadcast "Tora, Tora, Tora" (Torah?) when attacking Pearl Harbor.
Tora is Japanese for tiger and was the codeword to say that the suprise attack (like a tiger does) was successful. Your explanation is I'm afraid invented.

The Old Testament was written around 200-300 BC by 72 priests in Egypt who wrote it in Greek (not Hebrew) for the Jews who spoke Aramaic.
The Tanahk (Old Testament) was actually composed between the 12th and 2nd Centuries before Christ. You are of course referring to the later translations.

I'll let you find some independent sources of research for the rest.

Tubal Cain ..... Where theres cock there's bollox :D

Ahh familiar territory I see.

Mike

[mike martin]

yes, with "G"....generation, a "geyser", between the divided...perhaps. Is THIS the book that they want you to swear upon in a court of law?

It usually is yes!

As despite it's cover that is just the KJV Bible but it has an extra bit at the front highlighting specific bits of the Bible of interest to Freemasonry.

Mike

[mike martin]

yes, with "G"....generation, a "geyser", between the divided...perhaps. Is THIS the book that they want you to swear upon in a court of law?

The general consensus is that the "G" represents either God or Geometry, the science that God used to bring the Universe into being.

Freemasons are divided on a definitive answer for its use in the S&C, although the Ritual does mention "G" standing for God.

Mike

[mike martin]

the triune nature of man?

Mind, body and soul.

Mike

[intruder]

The general consensus is that the "G" represents either God or Geometry, the science that God used to bring the Universe into being.

Freemasons are divided on a definitive answer for its use in the S&C, although the Ritual does mention "G" standing for God.

Mike

please consider looking into toroidal topology and the nature of "seveness".


http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Torus.html

that G is the 7th letter of the alphabet is another clue.

consider the principle of 6 around 1, used in the affairs of humans as a "sabbath". a day of rest around the six.
remember the painting of to a TORTOISE (sounds like TORUS) supporting the world? in Hebrew, the word for tortoise is "tsab", or sabat.

G certainly can be interpreted as an unfurling spiral. the letter is related to the Hebrew letter "Gimel" (camel, or throat) a "conveyor".The letter G represents a "C" moving into itself. It suggests a universal need to form a passageway or conveyor, to make a Gut, womb, or hollow that closes in on itself in order to digest or reproduce. The sound IS guttural, originating in the depths of the body (gullet, guzzle, goo, gunk, gob)
As conveyer, the G is associated with...Go, Get, Ghost(spirit wind?)

Grrrrrrrrr as expressed by an aroused animal, warns the intruder of a deep, inner stirring that could be thrust outward.

"Googol" as an infinite number
Googolplex:

The american mathematician Edward Kasner once asked his nine-year-old nephew to invent a name for a very large number, ten to the power of one hundred; and the boy called it a googool. He thought this was a number to overflow people's minds, being bigger than anything that can ever be put into words. Another mathematician then shot back with googolplex, and defined it to be 10 to the power of googol.

A "googolplex," is sometimes hard to properly define or even conceive of. After all, a googool is simply

1 0000000000 0000000000 0000000000
0000000000 0000000000 0000000000 0000000000
0000000000 0000000000 0000000000, or (10^100)

[eternal_spirit]

G for Gnostics Gnostism Gnosis.

[intruder]

G for Gnostics Gnostism Gnosis.

the ironic part about that is the silent G.

[intruder]

and how G has permeated the rap and hip-hop world as in, "Yo, wuz up G!?"

or G-Unit

and an exalted swami is a "swami-JI"

[eternal_spirit]

ES I am beginning to be disappointed in you, I thought you had a grip.

Everyone who knows anything know the Aryans were indo-iranian despite Hitler's later claims.

The swasitka (aka fylfot, aka gammadion, aka croiz gammée aka tetraskelion, aka sun wheel, aka nor bu bzhi -khyil) has been used by many religions and civilisations since its original use by the Hindus, its use dates back to the Neolithic period (that's 6,000 years ago) and predates most of the civilisations you have mentioned. It represents Brahma the Creator for Hindus.

Tora is Japanese for tiger and was the codeword to say that the suprise attack (like a tiger does) was successful. Your explanation is I'm afraid invented.


The Tanahk (Old Testament) was actually composed between the 12th and 2nd Centuries before Christ. You are of course referring to the later translations.

I'll let you find some independent sources of research for the rest.



Ahh familiar territory I see.

Mike

.....................

A grip of my rather large Cane indeed.

There's more than one story about who where the original Aryans it's as bad as the 12 tribes how many different people's claim to be either...And who ever wrote history is only telling HISstory. The victor get's to write history. Ask the AskeNAZI Jews.

Tora is open to other interpretations, depends whose version you accept as truth and how words can be attached to acts as in Pearl Harbour and a connection to who's behind the actors ( who is writing the script )

The Old Testament same as other texts has been and will be open to debate and argument about it's origins and it's date of conception. Even the so called experts are constantly re dating historical events.


But if you follow the time line Greeks, Egyptians, Judaism, Christianity, Freemasonry it would seem to add up and make sense IMO.

[eternal_spirit]

and how G has permeated the rap and hip-hop world as in, "Yo, wuz up G!?"

or G-Unit

and an exalted swami is a "swami-JI"

...........................

G for generation, genes. Generative forces the compass and set square.

Knowledge passed on down the Generations.

[damagedbrainn]

and how G has permeated the rap and hip-hop world as in, "Yo, wuz up G!?"

or G-Unit

and an exalted swami is a "swami-JI"

G stands for "Gansta".

You all are sinking to lower depths of absolute absurdity.

I'm honestly surprised no one's yet mentioned "Goat"...yuh know, like the "Sabbatical Goat", ie "Baphomet". Of course, that's also absurd, but I'll leave it to you to figure out why.

However: "Gnosis" is a slim possibility, and the idea that the "G" represents a spiral is interesting, as Hebrew letters have also been used by western mysticism for purposes of design. What you all are overlooking is that a "G" isn't always used, and other symbols are sometimes put in its place.

[intruder]

G stands for "Gansta".

You all are sinking to lower depths of absolute absurdity.

I'm honestly surprised no one's yet mentioned "Goat"...yuh know, like the "Sabbatical Goat", ie "Baphomet". Of course, that's also absurd, but I'll leave it to you to figure out why.

However: "Gnosis" is a slim possibility, and the idea that the "G" represents a spiral is interesting, as Hebrew letters have also been used by western mysticism for purposes of design. What you all are overlooking is that a "G" isn't always used, and other symbols are sometimes put in its place.

thank you Oh wise one!! yes, I know that "G" stands for gangsta, hence my connection to a "gang" of masons. lighten up.

[intruder]

G stands for "Gansta".

You all are sinking to lower depths of absolute absurdity.

I'm honestly surprised no one's yet mentioned "Goat"...yuh know, like the "Sabbatical Goat", ie "Baphomet". Of course, that's also absurd, but I'll leave it to you to figure out why.

However: "Gnosis" is a slim possibility, and the idea that the "G" represents a spiral is interesting, as Hebrew letters have also been used by western mysticism for purposes of design. What you all are overlooking is that a "G" isn't always used, and other symbols are sometimes put in its place.

your post made me "ugggggh!" < that was an onomatopoetic expression of inner disgust pushed outward - a Gut-level reaction.

[intruder]

The turning in of the letter G toward itself in a process of organic transformation is reflected in many "enclosing" words, for instance, Guard (to surround) Gizzard, Girth, Girdle, Grasp, Glove. Because this womb-like enclosing is Generative, serving as a vehicle transformation...and UP the ladder of 33 steps...Gestate, Germinate, Genital, Gender...
The G process has not only a bright but also a severe aspect, as in Grim, Grimace, Ghastly, Grief, Grime, Grunt, Grumble, Grump, Gruff, Grudge, and GRIPE!!!

[jacob sladder]

The turning in of the letter G toward itself in a process of organic transformation is reflected in many "enclosing" words, for instance, Guard (to surround) Gizzard, Girth, Girdle, Grasp, Glove. Because this womb-like enclosing is Generative, serving as a vehicle transformation...and UP the ladder of 33 steps...Gestate, Germinate, Genital, Gender...
The G process has not only a bright but also a severe aspect, as in Grim, Grimace, Ghastly, Grief, Grime, Grunt, Grumble, Grump, Gruff, Grudge, and GRIPE!!!

Maybe the 'G' stands for 'Gingang-gooliegooliegoolie-ginganggoo- gingangoo- in relation to the many Scout movement associated Lodges around the country?

(D'you know how difficult that was to spell! :D).

JS

[intruder]

The basic thrust of language is not to communicate neutral fact; it is, rather, to express the "emotional" or "gestural" sense of objects, for beneath factual data and our private subjective feelings, there is, on the deepest level, an active Essence at work in the world; and the loGos of this Being is that organizing power which stirs us to verbalize.
-Maurice Merleau-Ponty

watch out.....or I'll put a SPELL on you!!!!

[eternal_spirit]

Gnositc knowledge pronunciation would sound like Gnowledge....To Know: Gnow.

[intruder]

Lets start with "A". Derived from the Semitic "Aleph", backwards PheLA = a miracle, a mystery. "Aleph", or OX, The Ox is a castrated bull. It's seed has been sacrificed for the sake of a greater work.

An ox (this ties in with the Gods of the Taurean age) can be seen as a symbol for squaring (X) the circle (O); for the cross is the world of "four corners" (the square), while the circle is the Spirit (with no beginning and no end)

[thelonious]

Lets start with "A". Derived from the Semitic "Aleph", backwards PheLA = a miracle, a mystery. "Aleph", or OX, The Ox is a castrated bull. It's seed has been sacrificed for the sake of a greater work.



Jeez...that sounds way too much like some more of Samael Aur Weor's nonsense.

[intruder]

glad you like it!!

[thelonious]

glad you like it!!

Did you write it, or were you quoting?

[intruder]

paraphrasing Stan Tenen.

and the word MASon...look at that, the three mother letters, Aleph, Mem, and Shin. I'm starting to understand why Masons, SO influenced by Kabbalah, never wish to discuss it.

[thelonious]

paraphrasing Stan Tenen.

and the word MASon...look at that, the three mother letters, Aleph, Mem, and Shin. I'm starting to understand why Masons, SO influenced by Kabbalah, never wish to discuss it.

Probably because, while you are correct that Masonic symbolism is influenced by Kabalah, most Masons don't even know what the Kabalah is.

I am a Hermetic Kabalist, and have studied both the influence of Hermeticism and traditioanl Kabalah in Freemasonry (and there are many). Nevertheless, I think the fact that the word "Mason" contains the Mother Letters is just coincidental. The modern Masonic institution originated in the fraternity of stonemasons in the middle ages, and took their name from the operative craftsmen.

[damagedbrainn]

thank you Oh wise one!! yes, I know that "G" stands for gangsta, hence my connection to a "gang" of masons. lighten up.

I guess I failed to read between the lines, because you didn't really say anything like that.

And now that you have, it still doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

[damagedbrainn]

Lets start with "A". Derived from the Semitic "Aleph", backwards PheLA = a miracle, a mystery. "Aleph", or OX, The Ox is a castrated bull. It's seed has been sacrificed for the sake of a greater work.

An ox (this ties in with the Gods of the Taurean age) can be seen as a symbol for squaring (X) the circle (O); for the cross is the world of "four corners" (the square), while the circle is the Spirit (with no beginning and no end)

You get a point for knowing the "squaring the circle" principle, but then lose that point for overlooking the obvious connection between that principle and the common "square and compass" symbol of Masonry, instead choosing to focus on your arbitrary game of alphabet soup.

You've obviously done your research, you're just not applying it very well.

[thetonic]

G is Geometry. Geometry is God. G is the union of the compass and the sqare(circle and square). These are the most basic tools of geometry that God has gifted man to worship him through our works, like God, the architect of the Universe.


http://www.tampareads.com/phonics/singleletters/letter-g/graphics/g-upper.jpg


http://www.nuwaubian-hotep.net/nuwaubu/masonic/circle_square/the_perfect_g.jpg


You can see it, the circle and the square, they comprise the fundamental shape of the letter G. G is the most basic aspect of sacred Geometry.


__________________

[damagedbrainn]

G is Geometry. Geometry is God. G is the union of the compass and the sqare(circle and square). These are the most basic tools of geometry that God has gifted man to worship him through our works, like God, the architect of the Universe.


http://www.tampareads.com/phonics/singleletters/letter-g/graphics/g-upper.jpg


http://www.nuwaubian-hotep.net/nuwaubu/masonic/circle_square/the_perfect_g.jpg


You can see it, the circle and the square, they comprise the fundamental shape of the letter G. G is the most basic aspect of sacred Geometry.


__________________

Good call...seriously.

I feel like a dumbass for not noticing that before.

[chestnutlodge]

thetonic - great post, never noticed that before. Thank you

We can all learn from each other if we are open minded.

[intruder]

[QUOTE=damagedbrainn;322653]You get a point for knowing the "squaring the circle" principle, but then lose that point for overlooking the obvious connection between that principle and the common "square and compass" symbol of Masonry, instead choosing to focus on your arbitrary game of alphabet soup.

You've obviously done your research, you're just not applying it very well.
/QUOTE]

I wasn't looking for "points", but thank you. I'd like to buy a vowel for $33 Pat.

[thetonic]

Good call...seriously.

I feel like a dumbass for not noticing that before.

No worries man.. Don't be fooled by your senses. Even most masons are blind to their own symbols

Get in touch with the true Creator and these things will be as obvious as day and night. I am only beginning to now. And by the way, the true Creator has nothing to do with Freemasonry..

[thetonic]

thetonic - great post, never noticed that before. Thank you

We can all learn from each other if we are open minded.

Your right, we can all learn from each other as the Creator intended. Knowledge is to be shared, not hidden. We must work together and harmonize our energy.

[intruder]

http://www.meru.org/3220lecture/contents.html

Squaring the circle.

[chestnutlodge]

Your right, we can all learn from each other as the Creator intended. Knowledge is to be shared, not hidden. We must work together and harmonize our energy.

Knowledge should always be shared and everything is energy.

[perry_mason]

No worries man.. Don't be fooled by your senses. Even most masons are blind to their own symbols
.

That was a great post Thetonic. But don't you think symbols are interpreted by the individual in the way they see fit, I don't see how there can be a 'correct' interpretation of a symbol (unless it's a stop sign:D) as it is all in the mind.

[mike martin]

That was a great post Thetonic. But don't you think symbols are interpreted by the individual in the way they see fit, I don't see how there can be a 'correct' interpretation of a symbol (unless it's a stop sign:D) as it is all in the mind.

I agree that it was a good post, however, when the "system" employing the symbol supplies you with its intended meaning for it, you remove that ambiguity.

Mike

[perry_mason]

I agree that it was a good post, however, when the "system" employing the symbol supplies you with its intended meaning for it, you remove that ambiguity.

Mike

Good point.

[thetonic]

I agree that it was a good post, however, when the "system" employing the symbol supplies you with its intended meaning for it, you remove that ambiguity.

Mike

all symbols have deeper meanings in the psyche.. Im sure that is not the end all to be all interpretation of the letter "G", but I know that it is a profound and esoteric one. Symbols speak much louder than words...

[thetonic]

That was a great post Thetonic. But don't you think symbols are interpreted by the individual in the way they see fit, I don't see how there can be a 'correct' interpretation of a symbol (unless it's a stop sign:D) as it is all in the mind.

Your subconscious will decipher it in a different way than possibly your forward thinking(ego) (no, im not saying your egotistical). It is on one level and on another perhaps it is not...

[the guy in pink]

But don't you think symbols are interpreted by the individual in the way they see fit, I don't see how there can be a 'correct' interpretation of a symbol (unless it's a stop sign:D) as it is all in the mind.

An example of different interperations for same symbol I use is the owl. In many western cultures the owl protrays wisdom. "The wise old bird"But some of my neighbours in Africa see the bird as extreme evil, "The Harbinger of Death"

[intruder]

$ < And many of you see this as a symbol for currency. Ideally, there should be two vertical poles....with a serpent climbing them.

"the fruit is rotten and the serpents eyes shine.....as he wraps around the vine...."

[chrism]

$ < And many of you see this as a symbol for currency. Ideally, there should be two vertical poles....with a serpent climbing them.

"the fruit is rotten and the serpents eyes shine.....as he wraps around the vine...."
Pillars of Hercules taken from the Spanish Coat of Arms?

That's as I have understood it for years... The pole and DOUBLE serpent is symbolic of medicine/healing, but I don't know why.

Chris

[intruder]

Pillars of Hercules taken from the Spanish Coat of Arms?

That's as I have understood it for years... The pole and DOUBLE serpent is symbolic of medicine/healing, but I don't know why.

Chris

cadeuceus wand. foreknowledge of the double helix.

[chrism]

cadeuceus wand. foreknowledge of the double helix.

Thanks.

Gosh - how did they know about DNA before Watson & Crick 'invented' (!) it? Or was it just a lucky guess?

Chris:eek:

[intruder]

Thanks.

Gosh - how did they know about DNA before Watson & Crick 'invented' (!) it? Or was it just a lucky guess?

Chris:eek:

who ya' gonna' trust? Sitchin? Enki and Enlil from Sumerian artifacts? chance?

[icke and ham]

Thanks.

Gosh - how did they know about DNA before Watson & Crick 'invented' (!) it? Or was it just a lucky guess?

Chris:eek:

It was a SNAKEY guess!

[chrism]

You guys do have a sense of humour!

Chance may have a part to play, but I prefer to keep an open mind. I used to read a lot of SF - especially Arthur C Clarke - and some of the stuff I used to really like was about the possibility of great civilizations living on earth which have left no trace.

Pratchett brought it up again in Science of Discworld series. Geologically, anything older than about 1 million years would be very hard to find anyway, so why not. I am sure this is not the first time this has been mentioned on this site though - let's stick to breaking news...

What are your thoughts, and can we bring this back to the topic of masonic passwords (without me having to give them away!)?

Don't say that masons are covering up an ancient civilisation please - unless you have some evidence at least!

Chris

[icke and ham]

I see letters to the papers and tv every day that the 1950s was one ancient civilisation - that which was lost by modern life. where would the mason's hope to find them or why. That is the point ... er lol

[chrism]

Quite possibly too much Daily Mail there Icke&Ham.

I am quite happy to live in the here & now, providing I get at least one holiday a year somewhere nice, the rest of the time I can travel via my browser, in space and most importantly time!

I would, however, like to think that the 1950's, with all it's bullseye sweets, ginger beer and the joys of scrumping (I live through my father's experiences too) were a product of Masonry, along with Shropshire and Swiss Rail Travel. What better way to prove the goodness of our works!

Chris

[icke and ham]

You must be rich to have holidays in nice lol. Perhaps you havnt paid your years salary up yet. where does shropshire come into it? Is there a big masonic hq there?

The daily mail wrote about a lodge at buck house that made the Queen cross. But someone on this forum said the Queen is head of English freemasonary. Who is right? or is it like mwgdrg and timnen and there bulls1t?

[chrism]

Shropshire is just one of the places where if I was God I would take credit for.

The devil can have the M25 and Grantham.

The Queen is not the head of freemasonry, but we do 'Toast' the monarch at our meals following lodge meetings. It is because she is the head of state of the country in which we reside, and we are in effect toasting Britain.

I don't know if they toast the President in the US, perhaps an American Brother can enlighten us.

The Queen is not even a Mason, and I don't know where the Mail got the idea that masons were trying to start up a lodge in Buck House. It's not that far from Great Queen Street, where grand lodge is.

Chris

[the guy in pink]

.

The Queen is not the head of freemasonry, but we do 'Toast' the monarch at our meals following lodge meetings. It is because she is the head of state of the country in which we reside, and we are in effect toasting Britain.

I don't know if they toast the President in the US, perhaps an American Brother can enlighten us.
Chris

I am a UGLE member in a country with an executive president (that is a politician as head), so we do not toast a person but the Loyal Toast is "The Republic "

[icke and ham]

Oh, Great Queen Street. Ive seen it on the mapp. What a silly muddle - Queen St and Buck house. Daily Mail cockup eh? :p

[danielson23uk]

The devil can have the M25 and Grantham.
I think he's already taken it. Cromer in February is pretty miserable too!

[thelonious]

I don't know if they toast the President in the US, perhaps an American Brother can enlighten us.



Here in the USA, we don't toast anybody.

But then again, alcoholic beverages are not allowed in US Lodges. :(

[tylerstoast]

Here in the USA, we don't toast anybody.

But then again, alcoholic beverages are not allowed in US Lodges. :(

Really ? no alcohol at the festive board ?

I never would have guessed, I can understand in the temple only water in there for us! But I just assumed all masons would have a similar form of FB

Meh, you live and learn ! :D

[danielson23uk]

Tylerstoast there are many 'dry' Lodges in the UK. They call themselves Temperance Lodges. This doesn't mean they're all tea total. It just means the bar over the road is RAMMED in between meeting and festive board!:p

[finegreen]

If you become a Shriner you can drink at the center. We have our own bar.

[tylerstoast]

Tylerstoast there are many 'dry' Lodges in the UK. They call themselves Temperance Lodges. This doesn't mean they're all tea total. It just means the bar over the road is RAMMED in between meeting and festive board!:p

I can believe that brother !

/insert goat noises/ :p

[the guy in pink]

Really ? no alcohol at the festive board ?

I understand that this is a throw back to the Prohibition in USA. The lodges changed their rules to conform to the law of the land and forgot to change them back to normality when the prohibition ended.

I cannot picture a dry Supper Table, must be a miserable place , but mercifully probably short lived.

[chrism]

Forgot??

They should have asked me - i would have reminded them!

Chris

[danielson23uk]

Forgot??

They should have asked me - i would have reminded them!

Exactly Chris! And to think all the while people are wasting their time setting up petitions to ban Freemasonry when there are clearly more pressing matters!!!!:D

[thetonic]

I am quite happy to live in the here & now, providing I get at least one holiday a year somewhere nice, the rest of the time I can travel via my browser, in space and most importantly time!



Chris

Why settle for that?.. The world is only what we make it.. Those that are "making it" right now, do not have our best intentions at heart. We should be living freely , and our works will shine through when left uninhibited. Right now , all I see is suppression of human spirit...

[chrism]

We may disagree fundamentally then - I don't think the Human Spirit can be suppressed.

Chris

[thetonic]

We may disagree fundamentally then - I don't think the Human Spirit can be suppressed.

Chris

Think again..

http://www.qualityinformationpublishers.com/ProductImages/317.jpg

[chrism]

Think again..

Yes - the body is weak, but the spirit keeps the flesh and bones alive.

Spirit is destroyed by guilt? Possibly, but by oppression, no.

Our bodies may not be free but our minds and spirit cannot be contained. Even fear provides only a cage which can be transcended.

This is a fundamental belief, and while I'm sure there are cases where people have given themselves up to failure, they are not me.

Sorry, it's personal, but I would be very interested to hear your point of view too.

Chris

[thetonic]

Yes - the body is weak, but the spirit keeps the flesh and bones alive.

Spirit is destroyed by guilt? Possibly, but by oppression, no.

Our bodies may not be free but our minds and spirit cannot be contained. Even fear provides only a cage which can be transcended.

This is a fundamental belief, and while I'm sure there are cases where people have given themselves up to failure, they are not me.

Sorry, it's personal, but I would be very interested to hear your point of view too.

Chris

The body is your temple. Treat it well and it will reward you with abundance. I wasnt even simply referring to the victims in those pictures , but also to the people who perpetrated these acts. That is where folly of the human spirit lies. It is the corruptibility of minds that will damage the spirit

[thelonious]

Really ? no alcohol at the festive board ?

I never would have guessed, I can understand in the temple only water in there for us! But I just assumed all masons would have a similar form of FB

Meh, you live and learn ! :D

US Grand Lodges banned alcoholic beverages during Prohibition in the 1920's. When Prohibition was lifted, the Lodges never got around to allowing it back in.