Origin of the Illuminati?

[kblood]

Anyone who have done research specifically about the Illuminati?

There seems to be many different tales about what the Illuminati is today, how it began, who runs it, and so on. I hope we can sum up information about it here, but Ickes views, and others.

I think we need other researchers than Icke to find the origin of Illuminati, but then I maybe Icke says the Illuminati has always been?

The question was asked by Paganus, but the thread didnt start of well, so this is the second try I guess :)

[kblood]

I guess a good starting point could be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati

History of the Bavarian Illuminati

This movement was founded on May 1, 1776, in Ingolstadt (Upper Bavaria), by Jesuit-taught Adam Weishaupt (d. 1830),[2] who was the first lay professor of canon law at the University of Ingolstadt.[3] The movement was made up of freethinkers, as an offshoot of the Enlightenment[4], which some believe was a conspiracy to infiltrate and overthrow the governments of many European states[5]. The group's adherents were given the name Illuminati, although they called themselves "Perfectibilists". The group has also been called the Illuminati Order, and the Bavarian Illuminati, and the movement itself has been referred to as Illuminism. In 1777, Karl Theodor, Elector Palatine, succeeded as ruler of Bavaria. He was a proponent of Enlightened Despotism and in 1784, his government banned all secret societies, including the Illuminati.

While it was not legally allowed to operate, many influential intellectuals and progressive politicians counted themselves as members, including Ferdinand of Brunswick and the diplomat Xavier von Zwack.[6] Xavier von Zwack was also the number two man in the operation and was caught with many of the groups documentations when his home was searched. The Illuminati's members pledged obedience to their superiors, and were divided into three main classes: the first, known as the Nursery, encompassed the ascending degrees or offices of Preparation, Novice, Minerval and Illuminatus Minor. The second, known as the Masonry, consists of the ascending degrees of Illuminatus Major and Illuminatus dirigens. It was also sometimes called Scotch Knight. The third, designated the Mysteries, was subdivided into the degrees of the Lesser Mysteries (Presbyter and Regent) and those of the Greater Mysteries (Magus and Rex).

The order had its branches in most countries of the European continent; it reportedly had around 2,000 members over the span of 10 years.[7] The scheme had its attraction for literary men, such as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Johann Gottfried Herder, and even for the reigning dukes of Gotha and Weimar. Internal rupture and panic over succession preceded its downfall, which was effected by The Secular Edict made by the Bavarian government in 1785.

[danucrom]

I guess a good starting point could be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati

The whole Bavarian Illuminati thing is sort of a red herring, it didn't start there and its roots can be found much much further back in time. Follow the money, the first cultures that used a monetary system were pre-Sumerian.

[danucrom]

Btw, why is this in "Conspiratainment " ??.

[cheeney1]

Heres a link that Might Be Of Interest...........http://www.illuminati-news.com/moriah.htm#2....;)

[cheeney1]

http://www.37thtexas.org/image/crusades.jpg

These Fellas Got The Ball Rolling...........Foot Sloggers For The Elite.........

The Knights Templers

[kblood]

The whole Bavarian Illuminati thing is sort of a red herring, it didn't start there and its roots can be found much much further back in time. Follow the money, the first cultures that used a monetary system were pre-Sumerian.

I agree that Wiki often gets it wrong, which is why I stated it as a starting point. Would be nice knowing the different descriptions of the Illuminati though, and was it even called illuminati that long back, or does it describe an organisation that goes beyond time and simply is a measure of control to keep reality as we know it, or as they want us to know it, in place?

As for putting it in conspiratainment, I thought this is what this section was about. I guess there is an illuminati thread though, but also, the thread that inspired this thread started in this section.

[kblood]

Heres a link that Might Be Of Interest...........http://www.illuminati-news.com/moriah.htm#2....;)

Very nice link :) Read most of it through. Yes, the Knights Templar certainly was a very important organisation for the Illuminati, wether the Illuminati existed before or after the Templars.

Its also said that the Illuminati worships satan, "The bringer of light" or Illuminator. The bible does say that it was Satan who gave us knowledge, which probably also lead to intelligence, or the other way around.

I dont believe evil to be something that exists, rather more of a deception meant to make us fear. I dont believe in blood sacrifice either though, and dont have any reason worship satan. I wouldnt be surprised if the Bible was a deception more than we thought it was to begin with.

All the secrecy about it contradicts it though, because why would those that are right have to protect their secrets?

Maybe the Templars discovered the secrets of the Annunaki in the temple ruins in the holy lands? Maybe that is why they later became the Illuminati instead. Secrets about how to control everything with the use of money I guess, and probably the secret rituals they are using.

[cheeney1]

I think They Did discover Something In the Holy Lands , Like The Annuaki
And the Templers became too powerful, And They were stopped, sort of.....:rolleyes: Thats when they went into recluse mixing in with other secret socities like how the Illuminati were formed spreading like vines,tenacles into Religion ,Royalty,Governments ,Military the Highest Echelon of Power
So they can Keep there Bloodlines and Wealth... but i could be wrong this Link Isn't too bad....

http://www.beyond-the-pale.org.uk/templars.htm

http://www.geocities.com/scarabbean_secret_society_ut/illuminati_dollar_bi.jpg
There Symbols are everywhere................

[i_am]

Btw, why is this in "Conspiratainment " ??.


Good question danucrom

I will move it to illuminati/secret societies.

[i_am]

Anyone who have done research specifically about the Illuminati?

There seems to be many different tales about what the Illuminati is today, how it began, who runs it, and so on. I hope we can sum up information about it here, but Ickes views, and others.

I think we need other researchers than Icke to find the origin of Illuminati, but then I maybe Icke says the Illuminati has always been?

The question was asked by Paganus, but the thread didnt start of well, so this is the second try I guess :)

I posted some excerpts in this forum from a book "En Route to Global Occupation" by Gary H. Kah,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10265

Make of it what you will but it is quite interesting.

[kblood]

I posted some excerpts in this forum from a book "En Route to Global Occupation" by Gary H. Kah,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10265

Make of it what you will but it is quite interesting.

Very nice indeed :) It even confirms what a friend of mine told me. He had researched the Freemasons and Illuminati himself, and being a very resourcefull person he became a Freemason himself, and got to a initiation process that most Masons probably wont ever hear of, but which he already knew was there and what it was about.

The knights confessed to a variety of notorious crimes and admitted to taking blasphemous oaths against Jesus Christ upon admission into the Order.

They said, they had been shown the cross on which was the figure of Christ, and had been asked whether they

believed in Him; when they answered yes, they were told in some cases that this was wrong (dixit sibi quod male credebat), because He was not God, He was a false prophet (quid falsus propheta erat, nec erat Deus). Some added that they were then shown an idol or a bearded head which they were told to worship; one added that this was of such "a terrible aspect that it seemed to him to be the face of some devil, called in French "un maufe," and that whenever he saw it he was so overcome with fear that he could hardly look at it without fear and trembling." All who confessed declared that they had been ordered to spit on the crucifix, and very many that they had received the injunction to commit obscenities and to practice unnatural vice. Some said that on their refusal to carry out these orders they had been threatened with imprisonment, even a few said they had actually been incarcerated; one declared that he had been terrorized, seized by the throat, and threatened with death (Ibid., p.52; Michelet, Proces des Templiers II, 1841. p.284-364).

Pope Clement V, however, refused to respond to the charges and confessions of the Templars.

Clement V, deeply resenting the King's interference with an order which existed entirely under papal jurisdiction, wrote in the strongest terms of remonstrance to Philippe le Bel urging their release, and even after their trial, neither the confessions of the Knights nor the angry expostulations of the King could persuade him to believe in their guilt (Ibid., p.53).

This ritual of facing the cross of christ is one that has been adopted by the Masons as well, but is quite well hidden. It is probably one of the last tests before you begin to learn about the true agendas of the Masons and the Illuminati. My friend, already knowing what this test was about, spat on the cross. He was scolded while the others who took the test was and didnt spit was congratulated for making the right choice. After the ceremony though, he was the one who got pads on his back and got congratulated, but the others werent told that they had in fact failed the test.

I guess they learned from the Templars how dangerous it is to let too many know what the initiation really was about.

[eternal_spirit]

Illuminati: The Order of the Illuminati was started, on May 1, 1776, by Adam Weishaupt, a Jew who was also in the Jesuit Order of the Catholic Church, thus making him a Jewish Jesuit. The true purpose of the Illuminati is world hegemony: a One World Order ruled by an elite pretending to represent the common man, but in reality disenfranchising and enslaving the entire population of the world for the Illuminati’s own selfish, evil purposes.



Their agents are bred, educated, and trained to be placed behind the scenes at all levels of government. As experts and advisers, they mould government policy to further the secret plans of their masters. They lure people away from God by offering them money, the world, the flesh, and the devil.


Those who direct the Illuminati are against Christ and in favor of Satan. They always remain in the dark, behind the scenes, unidentified, and generally unsuspected. They use all peoples to serve their diabolical purposes. By supplying arms and money to both sides in wars, the Illuminati divide and conquer, instigating peoples of the world to fight and kill each other to achieve the Zionist Jews’ objective of world control.



The terrorism of atomic warfare is deliberately fostered, and world famines are purposely created. Their primary goal is to form a One World Government, destroying all religions and national governments in the process.



http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/

[thelonious]

Allow me to issue an alternative viewpoint than what Eternal Spirit said:

Weishaupt (who was not a Jew) was fired from his position as philosophy professor at Ingolstadt University, which was run by the Jesuits. The Jesuits opposed Weishaupt's liberalism, and Weishaupt himself was a Deist and Unitarian. Weishaupt's writings were then banned by the Bavarian government, which was, no surprise, the Jesuit Electorate.

Many of the intellectuals were offended that the government was censoring dissenting voices, and began to champion Weishaupt. Inspired by the revolution that had just launched in the American Colonies, many Bavarian liberals wanted to see democratic change in their own homeland. They did not like the Jesuits, due to the fact that the Church policies were enforced by law.

Weishaupt and his supporters began preaching freedom of religion and freedom of speech. This soon landed some of them in jail. It was then that the group went underground as a secret society. The called themselves "Illuminati" because their doctrines were in tune with what was known as "The Age of Enlightenment". They structured their organization based loosely on Freemasonry. The Illuminati had a total of ten degrees, but the higher ones were never finished.

They were soon infiltrated by the Bavarian secret police. At this time, the Jesuits launched an intense anti-Illuminati propaganda campaign, attempting to paint them as devils who wanted to destroy "good government and religion" (i.e., their own).

While most of the Bavarian intelligentsia were sympathetic to the Illuminati, the majority of the people were uneducated, and believed whatever the Church told them. Thus, the people began to fear the Illuminati, who, ironically, wanted to free them. The Church was thus successful in creating the Illuminati scapegoat, and they capitalized by controlling the people through fear.

And that's the way it's been ever since.

[kblood]

Is the Illuminati really associated with Satan? There is much difference between Satan and Lucifer as far as I know, although they are often seen as one.

Also, inpired by the last post, can we maybe try to find proof that the Illuminati is actually evil? And since I dont believe in evil, then is there proof that the Illuminati has done blood sacrifice? Or other acts of evil?

My intution tells me that the Illuminati doesnt try to control the world for self reasons, at least not for selfish reasons alone. I think they are trying to control the world because they believe it needs to be controlled, and that they are the rightful rulers of the world. Still this believe of mine doesnt make me think them good benevolent people.

So, what acts and deeds can we link to the Illuminati? Being a secret society, that of course isnt the easiest thing to find, but we have many who claims rituals are done by the illuminati, and wars are caused by them. That is probably true, but what motivates them? Control and power alone usually just is a means to and end as I see it.

[thelonious]

Is the Illuminati really associated with Satan? There is much difference between Satan and Lucifer as far as I know, although they are often seen as one.

The actual, historical Illuminati of Bavaria were generally composed of religious liberals. Most did not believe in Satan or Lucifer. Most of them were Deists, and considered belief in Satan to be a superstition.

Also, inpired by the last post, can we maybe try to find proof that the Illuminati is actually evil? And since I dont believe in evil, then is there proof that the Illuminati has done blood sacrifice? Or other acts of evil?

The Illuminati were primarily an anti-papal political order. Their goal was to undermine the Bavarian government and replace it with a democratic republic. They weren't much on religious rites, especially in regard to sacrifices.

Most of their members were Deists. Deists believed in the existence of God, but didn't think that God took much interest in the day-to-day running of the universe. According to Deists, God is sort of like a clockmaker, who wound up the universe, and left it to run on its own, through scientific laws. Thus, the Illuminati, and other Deists and philosophers of that time, were much more interested in science than religion.

[mountain]

I feel the Illuminati was formed during the Fall of Man, as satanic families began to indulge in black witchery and interbreed among each other. The descendants of these unions produced the Illuminati families existing today.

[kblood]

The actual, historical Illuminati of Bavaria were generally composed of religious liberals. Most did not believe in Satan or Lucifer. Most of them were Deists, and considered belief in Satan to be a superstition.



The Illuminati were primarily an anti-papal political order. Their goal was to undermine the Bavarian government and replace it with a democratic republic. They weren't much on religious rites, especially in regard to sacrifices.

Most of their members were Deists. Deists believed in the existence of God, but didn't think that God took much interest in the day-to-day running of the universe. According to Deists, God is sort of like a clockmaker, who wound up the universe, and left it to run on its own, through scientific laws. Thus, the Illuminati, and other Deists and philosophers of that time, were much more interested in science than religion.

Even though they didnt, there is clear evidence that they do worship or at least favor Lucifer as a being of illumination or enlightentment. Today that is, you are only saying that the historical Illuminati of Bavaria didnt, so I guess you are only describing what the origin was?

[kblood]

Im am digging around the Internet a bit more and found a few links, althought they seem quite biased, that is something that probably is impossible to avoid anyway.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/satanism.htm

Says why masonry isnt associated with satanism. I really doubt the makers of this homepage would really know if they were or are though.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/illuminati.htm

This site interestingly enough claims that the Illuminati actually disbanded long ago and isnt part of the Freemason society anymore.

It is well established that by the end of the eighteenth century, the Illuminati had been effectively disbanded. Because of Freemasonry's inadvertent involvement and misuse by its founder, Adam Weishaupt, the legends of its continued existence (and influence) persist into the twentieth century.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/templars.htm

The site wont even agree that the masons are linked with the Templars. It claims that it is insubstantiel. I might have misunderstood it though.

[truthsayer]

Is the Illuminati really associated with Satan? There is much difference between Satan and Lucifer as far as I know, although they are often seen as one.

Do you not wonder if God and Satan are the same one? Would it not explain the good vs. evil conflict we all face? I've always felt a sense of duality in God's character judging by the Bible.

[synergy777]

satan, lucifer, beezlebub, baal, zeus, serpent/dragon, jahbulon etc all different names for the same evil entity

the illuminati was just a small branch, you have the templar knights/freemasons, the talmudic jews, the muslim/brotherhood, kinights of malta etc all branches of the nwo/sos.

[eternal_spirit]

Quote kblood:The site wont even agree that the masons are linked with the Templars. It claims that it is insubstantiel. I might have misunderstood it though.

........................

There's basically two theories, one the mason's originated with the Craftsmen, builders etc, I think in Europe and Britain.

Or Knights Templar.

[kblood]

Do you not wonder if God and Satan are the same one? Would it not explain the good vs. evil conflict we all face? I've always felt a sense of duality in God's character judging by the Bible.

Could be, or maybe that both are part of us. That is a biblical way of seeing it I guess, but that is how I understand the bibles meaning of it, that we have both in us.

satan, lucifer, beezlebub, baal, zeus, serpent/dragon, jahbulon etc all different names for the same evil entity

the illuminati was just a small branch, you have the templar knights/freemasons, the talmudic jews, the muslim/brotherhood, kinights of malta etc all branches of the nwo/sos.

Maybe so, but I am trying to sum up all the evidence for it being so. The best evidence can then be used to enlighten others.


The links I posted in the last post came from a discussion on another forum regarding the same subject:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread116607/pg1

Many in this thread, and many of them are freemasons (or claim to be), say that freemasonry is not associated with neither the Knights Templar, Satan or the Illuminati and that the only reason that they are thought to be is because of false conspiracy theories based on old rumours made by a few people.

Its really amazing how much they say they arent associated with. They say they arent associated with the Scottish Rite either.

I guess it will take alot of work, but thankfully others has done most of it, like David Icke and others, but I hope that we can some up the best links between it all. Both links of symbolism, historical fact, on monuments and buildings and in the masonic bible.

Im quite certain that I heard someone said to have read the masonic bible (or whatever its called, some book they all should have), that they are linked to Lucifer. I just dont remember where, maybe it was David Icke himself?

An interesting poster in the thread on the above top secret forum, claimed that the real link was ley lines. They all shared knowledge of ley lines, and clearly so, since many masonic temples and knights templar churces are placed on these ley lines.

The other link is banking, which the freemason posters dismisses by saying that everyone wants to make money...

If the Illuminati didnt reemerge after the disbanding of The Bavarian Illuminati, then why is the all seing eye still on dollar bills? Is that Illuminati symbol just kept on the bill for the sake of tradition? Or is it really a masonic symbol? It seems to be an Illuminati symbol to me, and is also possibly hinting to the ancient egyptian knowledge about ley lines as well, and sacred geometry.

[kblood]

Quote kblood:The site wont even agree that the masons are linked with the Templars. It claims that it is insubstantiel. I might have misunderstood it though.

........................

There's basically two theories, one the mason's originated with the Craftsmen, builders etc, I think in Europe and Britain.

Or Knights Templar.

But officially, the masons says they arent linked to the knights templar? Or just not the knights templar that was destroyed by the church?

[zero1]

satan, lucifer, beezlebub, baal, zeus, serpent/dragon, jahbulon etc all different names for the same evil entity

Hmm. Are you sure? I mean, Lucifer and Zeus..?

the illuminati was just a small branch, you have the templar knights/freemasons, the talmudic jews, the muslim/brotherhood, kinights of malta etc all branches of the nwo/sos

What does the "sos" part after NWO mean?

[eternal_spirit]

But officially, the masons says they arent linked to the knights templar? Or just not the knights templar that was destroyed by the church?

.........................

I don't know, guess you're saying some Knights Templar managed to escape the persecution and fled to another Country Scotland in the UK.

Jaques De Molay who was head of the Templars after some of the Templars confessing to various deeds, such as human sacrafice ( but we don't know if these were true or false confessions possibly extracted via torture ) was burnt at the stake I think by the King of France eventually.

Interesting to note there is a boy/youth foundation in the USA name De Molay something? Apparantly named after the man, it's a bit like the boy scouts which was set up by Baden Powell here in the UK, but there maybe more to it than the Scouts. A theory could be to get them prepared for later in life to join other fraternaties groups etc.

[kblood]

I guess the Priory of Sion just was a hoax, but it was a very clever one, and it suggests that it is possible to make up history of the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priory_of_Sion

I believed the Pierre person faked some documents that linked himself to Da Vinci and other historical people.

It has been said that such methods have been used both by the Illuminati and Church on this forum. The church making up most the story of Jesus, and the Illuminati changing historical facts to suit their agenda.

Evidence of what the Illuminati have changed would be nice though. I guess I will have to look through some videos and maybe read up on "The Biggest Secret" a bit to find some of the evidence.

editted: It seems many still believe the Priory of Sion did exist back in the dark ages and wasnt a hoax. Anyone who knows wether the debunking of it was just a cover up?

[meridiansun]

If the Illuminati didnt reemerge after the disbanding of The Bavarian Illuminati, then why is the all seing eye still on dollar bills? Is that Illuminati symbol just kept on the bill for the sake of tradition? Or is it really a masonic symbol? It seems to be an Illuminati symbol to me, and is also possibly hinting to the ancient egyptian knowledge about ley lines as well, and sacred geometry.
Details of the all seeing eye on a dollar bill, or to give it its correct name, "The Eye of Providence" can be found here: http://www.greatseal.com/symbols/eye.html

There's no mention of illuminati, freemasons, or any other secret society, except of course by following the "myths and misinformation" link at the bottom of the page.

[kblood]

Details of the all seeing eye on a dollar bill, or to give it its correct name, "The Eye of Providence" can be found here: http://www.greatseal.com/symbols/eye.html

There's no mention of illuminati, freemasons, or any other secret society, except of course by following the "myths and misinformation" link at the bottom of the page.

Thanks for the link and info :)

It seems I will have to dig deeper to have any chance of finding real evidence, if any. I once had a few vids of ex-illuminati confessing everything. Problem is finding them again. Anyone who have looked into the "Interview with an ex-vampire?", because the Illuminati confessor I saw a video about claimed that he was living the life of a vampire for several years, living only on the blood of women who willingly gave their blood to him and worshipped him. The video itself was from eighties, possibly the seventies.

[thelonious]

Even though they didnt, there is clear evidence that they do worship or at least favor Lucifer as a being of illumination or enlightentment. Today that is, you are only saying that the historical Illuminati of Bavaria didnt, so I guess you are only describing what the origin was?

Yes. When I say "Illuminati", I refer to the actual Bavarian society founded by Weishaupt. Goethe and Mozart were also prominent members.

[thelonious]

http://www.masonicinfo.com/illuminati.htm

This site interestingly enough claims that the Illuminati actually disbanded long ago and isnt part of the Freemason society anymore.

Yes, as I mentioned in my previous post, the Illuminati were infiltrated by the Bavarian secret police soon after were they were founded. Its leaders were driven into exile, and many of their members were arrested.



http://www.masonicinfo.com/templars.htm

The site wont even agree that the masons are linked with the Templars. It claims that it is insubstantiel. I might have misunderstood it though.

It is the general consensus among historians that there are no valid links between Freemasonry and the historical Knights Templar. It appears that the Templar/Masonic legend originated with a French Masonic lecturer named Andrew Ramsay, who gave a speech to a Masonic Lodge in Paris in the mid-1700's, where he introduced the theory that Freemasonry originated with chivalric orders during the crusades (although he didn't mention the Templars by name). Soon after this, however, new Templar degrees began popping up in Lodges all over france, and spread throughout Lodges all over the world.

Nevertheless, before Ramsay's speech, there are no records of anyone ever suggesting a Templar link in Freemasonry.

[thelonious]

If the Illuminati didnt reemerge after the disbanding of The Bavarian Illuminati, then why is the all seing eye still on dollar bills? Is that Illuminati symbol just kept on the bill for the sake of tradition? Or is it really a masonic symbol? It seems to be an Illuminati symbol to me, and is also possibly hinting to the ancient egyptian knowledge about ley lines as well, and sacred geometry.

I can find no evidence that the All Seeing Eye was used as a symbol by the Illuminati. However, it was used as a symbol in Masonry long before the Illuminati was founded.

I don't think the symbol on the dollar bill really contains any esoteric wisdom because it was designed by two non-Masons (Adams and Jefferson). Neither were initiates into any occult society, including Freemasonry.

[thelonious]

Jaques De Molay who was head of the Templars after some of the Templars confessing to various deeds, such as human sacrafice

They were not accused of practicing sacrifice, but they were accused of various "heresies", including worshiping a severed head called "Baphomet". This charge is almost certainly false, but it could have at least a little truth to it. There is a theory that the Templars may have discovered the severed skull of John the Baptist, and used it as an icon, perhaps representing martyrdom in the cause of religious liberty. The word "Baphomet" may have been some sort of secret Templar code meaning "Baptist".

[kblood]

Thelonious, you do not believe the Illuminati exists today in any way? You dont believe in conspiracies that the elite of our society has made to control us?

It seems I need research a bit more, because I am quite certain that I did find links between the masons and lucifer, which also links them with the illuminati. Problem is that if there is a link, it would make sense if it got covered up in every possible way.

Also you claim the Illuminati never infiltrated the Masons?

[the guy in pink]

It seems I need research a bit more, because I am quite certain that I did find links between the masons and lucifer, which also links them with the illuminati. Problem is that if there is a link, it would make sense if it got covered up in every possible way.



An excellent resource for such research is the Grand lodge of British Columbia website.
This article will begin your travels http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/robison-barruel.html

[thelonious]

Thelonious, you do not believe the Illuminati exists today in any way?

It depends on what you mean by "Illuminati". If you mean the order founded by Weishaupt, no, it no longer exists. However, thee are also various other organizations who call, and have called, themselves "Illuminati" as well.

You dont believe in conspiracies that the elite of our society has made to control us?

Not in the conspiracies, no. I don't believe that people sit down and consciously conspire to make the world the way it is. Rather, it's sort of a natural side effect of our economic system. People feel controlled and powerless because of the lack of wealth and property they have. In a capitalist society, "the rich get richer" as they say, and with money comes power. These people want to make more money, they have power, and they use that power for self-gain. So it's sort of a vicious circle created by capitalistic economics instead of an actual thought-out conspiracy.


It seems I need research a bit more, because I am quite certain that I did find links between the masons and lucifer, which also links them with the illuminati. Problem is that if there is a link, it would make sense if it got covered up in every possible way.

Not really. Many Masonic authors have used the word "Lucifer" in their books. I've used it too. "Lucifer" is what the Romans called the Greek god Apollo, and is a symbol of enlightenment. It wasn't until much later on that Christians began calling their devil "Lucifer".

When Masons use the term "Lucifer", we are not talking about the Satan of Christianity.

Also you claim the Illuminati never infiltrated the Masons?

I don't think "infiltrated" would be the correct word. Originally, the Illuminati attempted to recruit members from the local Masonic Lodges because they assumed the Masons would be sympathetic to their goals. In general, many Masons *were* sympathetic to the Illuminati, but they often disagreed with the Illuminati on tactics. For example, the Illuminati believed that the Bavarians should be doing the same thing that the American Revolutionaries were doing in the Colonies at that time, i.e., taking up arms against the government. The Masons in America were generally supporting the Revolution, and even leading it, so the Illuminati thought the Bavarian Masons should be doing the same thing (which they weren't).

[kblood]

I have been looking through the first links that got posted, that tries to prove the links between the Illuminati, Freemasons and Knights Templar.

So far this is what I have summed up:

From http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10265 I found:

The Templars, Masons and Illuminati linked by The Rosicrucians

Some contemporary leaders of the Masonic movement have denied any connections between their Order and the Knights Templars and Rosicrucians. However, enough evidence exists, which, if considered along with earlier statements from Morals and Dogma, clearly reveals that modern-day Freemasonry is a continuation of the preceding Orders. One outstanding example is in the names of the last three degrees of the York Rite -- the Knight of the Red Cross, Knight of Malta and Knight Templar -- and the eighteenth degree of the Scottish Rite -- Sovereign Prince of Rose-Croix, which together with the seventeenth degree is known as the Chapter of Rose Croix.

Based mostly on:

Morals and Dogma, by Albert Pike [1871]:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/md/index.htm

When Albert G. Mackey became the secretary general of the Supreme Council in Charleston, he persuaded Pike to join the circle. According to Haywood, "Pike soon became so captivated by the possibilities he saw stretching before it that he set aside his other vocations and avocations, became Sovereign Grand Inspector General, and devoted himself to the Rite until his death."

Pike was placed in power in 1859 when, according to Mackey, he was elected to the position of Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern Supreme Council (Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, p.564). He remained the leader of Scottish Rite Freemasonry until his death in 1891. In the 1860s, Giuseppe Mazzini, the Italian revolutionary leader and the worldwide director of Illuminized Freemasonry from 1834 to 1872, established relations with Pike making him the head of the Illuminati's activities in the United States (Kirban, Satan's Angels Exposed, p.157-158 and Ralph Epperson, The Unseen Hand, Tucson: Publius Press, 1985, p.223). Finally, on 20 September 1870 the constitution creating the new super-rite was signed into effect by Pike and Mazzini (Miller, Occult Theocracy, p.215).

Albert G. Mackey and Edit Starr Miller are both very important figures in this, as they link Albert Pike with Freemasonry and the Illuminati. Even Lucifer as well in Millers book:

Occult Theocracy by LADY QUEENBOROUGH, EDITH STARR MILLER (http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/02/125034.pdf)

An important link between it all is the encyclopedia Mackey wrote:

ENCYCLOPEDIA OF
FREEMASONRY
AND ITS KINDRED SCIENCES (http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/mackeys_encyclopedia/index.htm)

Mackeys work also links the Illuminati founder Adam Wieshaupt very closely with Masonry. Mackey does agree that his Illuminati was stopped though, but it seems that his Illuminati had much influence on masonry and what it has become today.

To get all this up to date, then Bilderberger links to the Masons would help show how deep it goes, if true at all. However I have not come up with solid enough links. So far only conspiracy sites that doesnt have good or any sources at all as to where they get their information from.

Tony Blair is rumoured to be a 33rd degree freemason and a bilderberger, but I havent found good evidence of it to be true. Only good evidence that he is a bilderberger, and friends with Bush and other masons. That can of course just be said to be because of their political positions.

http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/conspiracy/coverups/sleazeblair.html

Seems to be good evidence. I guess it might have been manufactured evidence. Still doesnt lead anywhere without links to Freemasonry.

[thelonious]

Albert G. Mackey and Edit Starr Miller are both very important figures in this, as they link Albert Pike with Freemasonry and the Illuminati. Even Lucifer as well in Millers book

Please see my comments of Miller and the Albert Pike / Leo Taxil hoax in the other thread. As for Mackey, he and Pike were close friends (Mackey personally initiated Pike into the 33°). Mackey did not "link" Pike to the Illuminati, and what Mackey wrote about the Illuminati generally agrees with what I've previously written here.


Mackeys work also links the Illuminati founder Adam Wieshaupt very closely with Masonry.

Weishaupt was a Mason. So were many other Illuminati members, including Knigge, Goethe, Mozart, and St. Germaine.

Mackey does agree that his Illuminati was stopped though, but it seems that his Illuminati had much influence on masonry and what it has become today.

Actually, the opposite is true. While the Illuminati had no influence on Masonry, Masonry had a *lot* if influence on the Illuminati.


Tony Blair is rumoured to be a 33rd degree freemason and a bilderberger, but I havent found good evidence of it to be true.

Mr. Blair is not a Mason. I do not know if he was ever a Bilderberg attendee.

Only good evidence that he is a bilderberger, and friends with Bush and other masons.

Bush is not a Mason. 15 Presidents of the United States have been Masons, the last one being Brother Gerald R. Ford.

[eternal_spirit]

It seems I need research a bit more, because I am quite certain that I did find links between the masons and lucifer, which also links them with the illuminati. Problem is that if there is a link, it would make sense if it got covered up in every possible way.



Synagogue ( original spelling) of Satan maybe related to the Jewish ritual sacrafices in the Synogogues.
Although there is a modern day Satanic sinogogue of Satan

our High Priest,
Rev. Michael S. Margolin
The Mad Poet Acbhb
Frater Inferior
Baphomet Rex 666

http://www.sosatan.org/rex.jpg (http://www.sosatan.org/rex.jpg)

“The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black God, but the negation of God. The Devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry. For the Initiates, this is not a person, but a force, created for good, but which may serve for evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or free will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the light bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend.”
- Albert Pike “Morals and Dogma“ Ancient and Accepted Rite of Free Masonry written and published in 1875.


"Hate those that earn it, as you would love those that earn it, As Above, so below."
"When the world is viewed with no set reality, the lies of society are revealed and the bonds of slavery, broken."
- Rev. Michael S. Margolin
They have website link below
http://www.sosatan.org/

http://www.thunderministries.net/Kabbalah/satanic.htm

http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/...rview_1976.htm


In the interview http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php? (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20806&highlight=sinogogue+satan)
Rosenthal admits that their God is Lucifer, There's another connection to Satanism, Satan being Lucifer on Earth, with his dominion of Fallen Angels who became the Demons of Demonology of the Kabbalah.
Like I've been pointing out in some other posts, is anti-christ. So, back to the Old Testament again.

[kblood]

Hey Eternal Spirit. I do have a hard time not to connect what you posted to the Illuminati and therefore also the masons, but then I have also watched conspiracy videoes saying that for many years. Now I want to research it a bit further.

Problem is that it officially isnt not the truth for most freemasons, wether it is true or not. So even if some freemasons do agree with it, they cannot speak for all other freemasons. If it is to be truly proved, we would have to be able to link 33rd degree masons today with Satanism, anti christ, the NWO and so on, but that doesnt seem to be happening. If it was happening, then they would of course also be doing a bad job of keeping it secret ;) But I cannot claim to know it to be the truth myself.

Thelonious I wrote earlier in the thread about a friend of mine who told me about a initiation he took as a freemason. Similar to what was to have been a templar initiation, as written in I_am's thread. He accumulates knowledge so fast that if he seeks factual knowledge, it would be near impossible to keep it from him because he absorbs knowledge like a dry sponge absorbs water. So he researched freemasonry, joined and got to a point where his initiation ceremony was to face a cross in a Masonic Temple. He spat on the cross, since that is what his research had said was the correct way of doing it, although it was not encouraged. Do you know of any initiation ceremony like this one into any of the degrees you know about? Would you be bound by secrecy not to talk about these ceremonies so specifically?

[kblood]

(The Council of 13 heading up the plan for world hegemony are signified by the 13 layers of masonry portrayed on the reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States and printed on the U.S. one dollar bill by Illuminatus F.D. Roosevelt).

Any lingering doubts I had over whether the Order was Masonically inspired were removed when I discovered that H.L. Haywood, another highly esteemed Masonic historian, also included Weishaupt's biography in his book Famous Masons and Masonic Presidents. Weishaupt's esteemed summary is one of only one hundred biographical sketches appearing in the book, indicating that he had to have been a very prominent Mason (H.L. Haywood, Famous Masons and Masonic Presidents. Richmond VA: Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Co., 1944, p.152).

John Robison, an eighteenth century historian and a prominent Mason, was entrusted with some of the original documents and correspondence of the Illuminati. In his book, Proofs of a Conspiracy, written in 1798, he reproduced major segments of the Illuminati's original writings. Robison stated, "the express aim of the Order was to abolish Christianity, and overturn all civil government" (John Robison, Proofs of a Conspiracy. Boston: Western Islands, 1967, p.60). He went on to quote Weishaupt as stating that the plan for a New World Order can succeed "in no other way but by secret associations, which will by degrees, and in silence, possess themselves of the government of the States, and make use of those means for this purpose . . . " (Ibid., 106).

Using deception and intrigue, Weishaupt and his inner circle of adepts succeeded at gaining the support of Germany's Masonic lodges. "All these branches were controlled by the twelve leading adepts headed by Weishaupt, who at the lodge in Munich held in his hands the threads of the whole conspiracy" (Nesta Webster, World Revolution, p.20). Mackey admits to the initial success of the Illuminati, commenting:

The Order was at first very popular, and enrolled no less than two thousand names upon its registers, among whom were some of the most distinguished men of Germany. It extended rapidly into other countries, and its Lodges were to be found in France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Hungary, and Italy (Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, p.346-347).

In 1782, at the Masonic Congress of Wilhelmsbad, Weishaupt's Illuminati solidified its position among Europe's secret societies as the undisputed leader of the occult one-world movement. Around the same time, Weishaupt also succeeded at forging an alliance between Illuminized Freemasonry and the growing Rothschild banking network, thereby giving the Order the financial means to begin to carry out its plans (Webster, World Revolution, p.20 and Count Egon Caesar Corti, The Rise of the House of Rothschild. Boston: Western Islands, 1972, p.ix).

As a result of this alliance with the international financiers, the Freemasons regained the banking prominence once held by the Templars, and the Illuminati gained momentum. H.L. Haywood observes, "It took root, it grew, it flourished, it gathered into itself more men of royal and noble titles than were possessed by the Hohenzollern family; even the Jesuits joined it" (Haywood, Famous Masons and Masonic Presidents, 151-152).

Although Weishaupt's Illuminati was exposed within ten years, he had accomplished more to further "the plan" during this time than all of Freemasonry's efforts of the previous fifty years combined. One reason for his success was that he had gotten many Christian leaders to join the Order by convincing them that the Illuminati was a for the sake of Christ. Robison states, "In this scheme of Masonic Christianity, Spartacus [Weishaupt] and Philo [Baron Von Knigge] laboured seriously together. Spartacus sent him the materials, and Philo worked them up." (Robison, Proofs of a Conspiracy, p.86).

Now according to this, and I know most of the information comes from conspiracy theoriests, Weishaupt did spread his Illuminati/freemason lodges in all the most powerfull countries of Europe. He is said to have furthered "the plan" more than freemasonry had on its own for fifty years combined. Now this "plan" is most likely what is today known as the New World Order, but it could also just be spreading freemasonry, its lodges and its influence.

I find it very hard to distinguish between the Illuminati way of enlightenment and the masonic way. Is there a difference? Wether freemasonry influenced the Illuminati or Illuminati influenced freemasonry is also had to tell. But isnt it correct that the Weishaupt way of freemasonry got to the mentioned countries first?

The Order was at first very popular, and enrolled no less than two thousand names upon its registers, among whom were some of the most distinguished men of Germany. It extended rapidly into other countries, and its Lodges were to be found in France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Hungary, and Italy (Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, p.346-347).

Since there is lodges in these countries today as well, is it not very likely that they are still influenced by the Illuminati way of freemasonry as they originally came to be known in those places? I know it is mostly speculations, but it seems likely to me.