Debt

[loderlive]

Is anyone on here worried about their debts or struggling to meet repayments? I'm interested to hear about people's experiences and how they deal with it. I've learnt a hell of a lot over the past 2 years about how creditors work. I will certaintly pass on any practical information to those in need. I can also recommend a book called "to pay or not to pay" by Stanley G Hilton. Ultimatley once you start living by your passions and not what you own or your credit rating they can't touch you. Until you do that you will forever be in ther lap.

[loderlive]

......nobody experienced debt?

[swifty]

Yep I've had a lot of bad dept in the past and still find it hard to get credit even though I've paid everything off I managed to get a mortgage so not to bothered about getting more credit now but I remember how stressful it can be having people knocking on your door demanding money when you have nothing. I made a offer of payment to one company and they refused it straight away and asked for twice the amount I could afford if I didn’t pay they said they would take me to court so I decided to call their bluff, after the court hearing I was told I must pay them half the amount I originally offered lol they must have been gutted

[loderlive]

a mortgage is credit.

[mr_self_destruct]

Had thousands and thousands of debt (loans and credit cards) from my time as a student and former gambling habits :rolleyes: ...managed to evade it for years. I don't care about the ethics of it, fuck the finance companies! Don't ever want credit again so no worries there.

[swifty]

a mortgage is credit.

I know mortgage is credit I said I wasnt bothered about getting MORE credit:confused:

[loderlive]

I know mortgage is credit I said I wasnt bothered about getting MORE credit:confused:

indeed a mortgage is more than enough debt.

[Anders Lindman]

a mortgage is credit.

I didn't think of that but absolutely, a mortgage is debt. Also money itself is today almost completely pure debt. :eek:

The whole fractional reserve banking system, on which almost all currencies today are based, is a debt-generating monster!!!

And money is debt generated from previous debt! This more or less forces the use of massive credits in society.

And the common politicians? What have they to say? Nothing! Absolutely nothing is said about fractional reserve banking. And people vote for politicians like Hillaryminati Clinton, Obama-nation and 'bomb bomb Iran' McCain. Unbelievable.

Go Ron Paul, go Ron Paul, go Ron Paul! :cool::D:)

[Anders Lindman]

Also money itself is today almost completely pure debt.

Money = debt? Yes. When they create new money, it's actually worse than a creation out of thin air. The new money pumped into the system is created as debt to someone else. And to pay that debt, more money has to be created leading to more debt which leads to even more money needed to be created... It's a vicious cycle. An increasing debt cancer.

For people who are new to how money is created:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

[gordysmit]

if I didn’t pay they said they would take me to court so I decided to call their bluff, after the court hearing I was told I must pay them half the amount I originally offered lol they must have been gutted
And if they take you to court you can not pay back what you dont have how can there demand the money you dont have you just pay £250 and go bank rupt

[loderlive]

If you enjoy what you do every day, you dont need a mortgage. This is my path and it's the one I pass down to my children.

[Anders Lindman]

If you enjoy what you do every day, you dont need a mortgage. This is my path and it's the one I pass down to my children.

But often a mortgage is the only way to be able to have a home. And in the future maybe having a mortgage will be the only way of having a home other than a tent.

Banks create the mortgage by typing the amount on a keyboard. One minute of work, and you have to pay the entire mortgage back or else they take the home away from you. In addition to that you must also pay interest on the mortgage. A LOT of interest. Sounds like a fair deal, no?

[mido]

Ultimatley once you start living by your passions and not what you own or your credit rating they can't touch you

You sure? How do you work that out? Explain please...

I lived "by my passions" for 2 years as a writer/composer/musician - modest success but highly precarious and my credit cards are now at the limit. One charges a ridiculous 21% interest rate (which I got reduced from 24.8%)!! But I gave it a go and was true to what drives me. Having done the 9-to-5 for years and run my own business, when I lost my job awhile back and couldn't get another I decided, with encouragement, to tap into my long-established creativity.

However, my debt wasn't entirely self-inflicted - I loaned someone a lot of money which I never got back because they went bankrupt.

I've no intention of declaring bankrupcy and have two credit cards at reduced interest, but even so it's a real struggle. As for getting a mortgage one day - it's not even on the farthest horizon.

So....if you have some useful, practical advice, I'm listening...

[Anders Lindman]

One charges a ridiculous 21% interest rate (which I got reduced from 24.8%)!!

The whole money system is sick to the core. Interest is only needed to fuel an asinine fractional reserve banking system.

Today's money system causes a huge amount of suffering for almost all people. It's sick!!! :mad::mad::mad:

[gordysmit]

The thing is all the worlds is sick

[loderlive]

Ultimatley once you start living by your passions and not what you own or your credit rating they can't touch you

You sure? How do you work that out? Explain please...

I lived "by my passions" for 2 years as a writer/composer/musician - modest success but highly precarious and my credit cards are now at the limit. One charges a ridiculous 21% interest rate (which I got reduced from 24.8%)!! But I gave it a go and was true to what drives me. Having done the 9-to-5 for years and run my own business, when I lost my job awhile back and couldn't get another I decided, with encouragement, to tap into my long-established creativity.

However, my debt wasn't entirely self-inflicted - I loaned someone a lot of money which I never got back because they went bankrupt.

I've no intention of declaring bankrupcy and have two credit cards at reduced interest, but even so it's a real struggle. As for getting a mortgage one day - it's not even on the farthest horizon.

So....if you have some useful, practical advice, I'm listening...

First of all the 21% interest rate is only as ridiculous as the person prepared to pay it. Double this thought if you have two. You accept this without a fight? Clearly, by paying this you are at the mercy of a credit system, massively exploited by creditors. It is the fear, guilt and shame of not paying which holds the system in place. By choosing to be outside the system and daring to say “on my terms”, you get an enormous sense of empowerment and control. Pay who you want, when you want and how much you want. Bad credit is an illusion, designed for mass-manipulation.

[mido]

First of all the 21% interest rate is only as ridiculous as the person prepared to pay it.

Considering you don't know the real details of my circumstances you're quite an arrogant know-all. But like all arrogant know-alls, you're actually quite shallow and your pool of knowledge is about as deep as a dried-out puddle.

It is the fear, guilt and shame of not paying which holds the system in place.

No, it isnt what holds credit in place at all - that's b*llo*ks. Ever heard of responsibility? You come on here like some master financier and haven't got a grip of even the basics!

By choosing to be outside the system and daring to say “on my terms”, you get an enormous sense of empowerment and control.

I already have many aspects of my life AND my finances on MY TERMS actually - but of course, you would know different? Control is very, very important to you, right?

Pay who you want, when you want and how much you want.

Who says I don't? Was that a guidance lesson from the master?

Bad credit is an illusion.

Try telling that to people with it and to those who deal with it every day.

Know what? I guarantee that I'm more outside 'the system' than you right now. As for the debt - it's short-term. It isn't me the one with the problem.

[Anders Lindman]

Also there are micro loans, SMS loans etc. I don't know what interest rates they have, but let's say that a $100 loan costs $10 per month in interest, then the total interest is 100%! :eek: Plus all kinds of sneaky extra fees that are just disguised extra interest.

The fractional reserve banking system pyramid scheme creates an enormous and ever increasing burden of debt. It is quickly becoming more and more difficult to be debt-free. And taking a nation/society as a whole, it is IMPOSSIBLE to become debt free.

[gugdav]

I think maybe you're being a little reactionary to the previous poster.
It might sound arrogant but, ignoring the niceties of normal society, they're actually not that far from the truth.

No, it isnt what holds credit in place at all - that's b*llo*ks. Ever heard of responsibility? You come on here like some master financier and haven't got a grip of even the basics!


Credit Card companies target the poor. I realise this sounds obvious, but long ago, the credit card companies discovered that poor people are honest.
Allied to this, once you discover how money is "created" (at the top level), you'll actually discover that your responsibility (as far as honestly striving to pay off the banks) is actually a great way to take the piss out of yourself.
Yes, in reality, they'll end up trying to reposess your home, and yes, its all very stressful, but to do that is the absolute last thing that creditors want to do.
Not because they are nice, not because they give a damn about you, but because its expensive and they really dont care for your possessions.

Eventually, many creditors will sell the debt on to an agency. The agency will then track you down and try and collect on your debt.
You will be *amazed* at the pence in the pound settlements you can do with these companies - my partner worked for one such agency for a few months whilst in college (ringing them up and cutting deals on the phone) - she just told me that the best she can remember (in terms of percentage) was a 1000 pound debt, if settled there and then for 200 quid - and this is *not* rare.


I already have many aspects of my life AND my finances on MY TERMS actually - but of course, you would know different? Control is very, very important to you, right?

You probably think you do, but in fact you're most likely running around working hard and getting stressed about paying back your credit.
To evade (for as long as possible) your debts and then cut a deal for pence on the pound would be taking control of your credit (in so much as getting some power back).

I fully realise that you're probably an honest decent and nice person.

The trouble is the credit companies are *not* nice, honest decent folk.
You should not feel too bad about getting the best deal out of these folks that you possibly can. Truth is, they don't care about you. They spend millions of pounds designing ways to rip you off in manners that are generally only just legal and frankly, if they hadn't knobbled the politicians already, probably would be.
The banks have been leeching off of honest citizens for years and the damage they have done to society via fractional reserve banking is enormous.



Good Luck !

[Anders Lindman]

I thought just hit me. It is becoming easier and easier to get credit, while at the same time it is getting more and more difficult to earn money.

Even though I haven't thought this through yet I strongly suspect that this is a direct, or at least an indirect, result of the fractional reserve banking system.

[loderlive]

Considering you don't know the real details of my circumstances you're quite an arrogant know-all. But like all arrogant know-alls, you're actually quite shallow and your pool of knowledge is about as deep as a dried-out puddle.



No, it isnt what holds credit in place at all - that's b*llo*ks. Ever heard of responsibility? You come on here like some master financier and haven't got a grip of even the basics!



I already have many aspects of my life AND my finances on MY TERMS actually - but of course, you would know different? Control is very, very important to you, right?



Who says I don't? Was that a guidance lesson from the master?



Try telling that to people with it and to those who deal with it every day.

Know what? I guarantee that I'm more outside 'the system' than you right now. As for the debt - it's short-term. It isn't me the one with the problem.

If you say 21% is ridiculous, then isn’t it ridiculous to pay it? I apologise if what I have said caused offence.

Yes taking responsibility of the debt is important but so too comes responsibility on the creditor not to exploit the situation. The scale of which is unknown until you challenge them.

If you were paying on your own terms, you wouldn't be struggling.

Having gone through debt with much the same experience as the previous post, I have empathy and sympathy for the debtor not the creditor.

Does the infinite have a bad credit rating? That's how far outside the system I am.

[gugdav]

I thought just hit me. It is becoming easier and easier to get credit, while at the same time it is getting more and more difficult to earn money.

Even though I haven't thought this through yet I strongly suspect that this is a direct, or at least an indirect, result of the fractional reserve banking system.

Thats exactly that "money as debt" and the money masters are saying (search on google video for these if you havent seen them).

You've got more and more people chasing less and less "real" money trying to pay off more and more credit.

The fact is, its *impossible* for everyone to pay off their debts. Its physically not possible. There isnt enough "real" money in the system.

[Anders Lindman]

Thats exactly that "money as debt" and the money masters are saying (search on google video for these if you havent seen them).

You've got more and more people chasing less and less "real" money trying to pay off more and more credit.

The fact is, its *impossible* for everyone to pay off their debts. Its physically not possible. There isnt enough "real" money in the system.

Yes, they said in the video Money as Debt that people everywhere had to try to get money to pay the increasing debt. I have already posted that video in this thread. :D

And another thought just hit me: even if I myself will become free from debt, it will STILL be more and more difficult for me to earn money since the increasing debt affects the entire society regardless of whether the debt is mine or someone else's.

I posted another video some time ago with a lecture where a scientist described how a family with one income in the 70s today needs to have two incomes (both parents working) in order to maintain the same standard of living.

[cheeney1]

a mortgage is credit.

Indeed it is The First Five To Ten Years of Paying Your Morgage is Only Interest you aren't paying anything back on your loan

New Zealand is Officially The Dearest Place To Buy A House An Interest Rate at 9.09% real bummer..........:mad:

[pri01]

If you break down the word MORT-GAGE into French, it translates as DEATH-PLEDGE.

[mr_self_destruct]

The trouble is the credit companies are *not* nice, honest decent folk.
You should not feel too bad about getting the best deal out of these folks that you possibly can. Truth is, they don't care about you. They spend millions of pounds designing ways to rip you off in manners that are generally only just legal and frankly, if they hadn't knobbled the politicians already, probably would be.
The banks have been leeching off of honest citizens for years and the damage they have done to society via fractional reserve banking is enormous.

Totally - in the past I've had temp jobs with banks and credit card companies and some of their tactics are just disgraceful (especially when it comes to selling new credit).

The worst personal example I can give (from when I was young and clueless when it came to money) was when the bank turned my overdraft into a loan (so the overdraft was cleared but I then had to pay it back in monthly installments at a higher interest rate)! They also "upgraded" my account to an Advantage Gold (or some bollocks), the advantage seeming to be that I paid them seven quid a month for it without any tangible benefits. Motherfuckers!

[manchurian_candidate]

If you break down the word MORT-GAGE into French, it translates as DEATH-PLEDGE.

I think my parents would totally agree with that!!! :(:mad: