Does anyboby here actually believe in David ICKE?

[seanx]

Reading all the threads here, especially the thread re: Law of attraction,
I wonder how many people here have ACTUALLY read David
ICKE'S most important book- Tales of the Time Loop.

And how many have actually grasped the full implacations of his conclusions?

Most, it seems to me, take his 'conclusions' and add their own
'interpretations' to it, especially the fraud of NLP - to make it seem
more acceptable to mainstream thinking.

ery few people on this forum CAN accept his ideas - as he expresses them.

Why is that?

It is a BIG surprise to me - as i was sure on the 'Dave ICKE' forum
- that you would get people who wanted to discuss his ideas.

Instead you get - half the people who think his ideas ARE MAD.

See the thread on LOC, for confirmation of this.

Anybody here who actually believes in what David Icke is trying to
explain to people??



.

[phenylamine]

Well actually I think(true for me anyway)that most people here are just doing what David suggests.They listen,read,try to absorb the facts and relevant information and then use their own consciousness to come to their own conclusions about things.I think something is wrong if we all agree or all blindly follow one man.I have the greatest respect for David and do not think that to disagree with him on some things takes anything away from that respect,nor do I think it is in any conflict with his own stated thoughts on the matter.
Peace
,phenyl

b.t.w
I don't think many here dismiss any of davids ideas as 'MAD',whether they agree with them or not.I'd like to think(and do)that most of us here are beyond that sort of thing.

[oneofmany]

Well actually I think(true for me anyway)that most people here are just doing what David suggests.They listen,read,try to absorb the facts and relevant information and then use their own consciousness to come to their own conclusions about things.I think something is wrong if we all agree or all blindly follow one man.I have the greatest respect for David and do not think that to disagree with him on some things takes anything away from that respect,nor do I think it is in any conflict with his own stated thoughts on the matter.
Peace
,phenyl

b.t.w
I don't think many here dismiss any of davids ideas as 'MAD',whether they agree with them or not.I'd like to think(and do)that most of us here are beyond that sort of thing.

I couldn't agree with you more. I make up my own mind about information instead of blindly believing everything someone says (including David Icke)
In fact if you blindly believe what someone says without doing your own research, you may as well be one of the sheeple

[i_am]

I couldn't agree with you more. I make up my own mind about information instead of blindly believing everything someone says (including David Icke)
In fact if you blindly believe what someone says without doing your own research, you may as well be one of the sheeple

Ditto!

Most of the stuff David talks about, I had actually discovered from my own research a decade ago, before I had even heard of David Icke. If it rings true to me I take it onboard, if not I discard it. David himself says that he just gives the information, what you do with it is up to you.

There is very little I find in his writings that I disagree with. I do, however, believe that Jesus existed but that is not to say I believe in the Jesus portrayed by the Christian churches. That, I believe, is a myth built on previous myths of similar characters.

David is not a Guru, nor does he wish to be. I have the utmost respect for the man and for the people on this forum. I know there are some who totally disagree with a lot of what he says but that is their prerogative. I am not going to argue with them. There is no point and it is a total waste of energy.

As a wise man once said, " If you are wrong, you don't have the right to argue and if you are right, there is no need."

Do I believe in what he is trying to get across to people? Absolutely!

Do I agree with him on everything? Mostly :p

[tinmenace]

David Icke is one of the most real and coherent people alive, in my opinion. His profluent style of writing and speaking is what makes seemingly complicated information easy to understand. He is absolutely on the money with everything I've read from him so far. After doing my own research and verifying information and also finding different ways to understand the information he's presented, I'm a different person completely.

I'm so grateful to him for his work.

But, I have to agree. I've noticed that some people don't get what David's really about, and have missed the point completely. This is not a novel, this is a study of the human condition and our collective consciousness. It's ongoing, and I have an epiphany at least once a week. The understanding grows daily and it's a work in progress ... well at least for me it is.

[whitenight639]

Ditto!

If it rings true to me I take it onboard, if not I discard it. David himself says that he just gives the information, what you do with it is up to you.



Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this is what i was afriad of, my thirst for information has lead me to here just like you, is this because of destiny, or the state of the world or both. the fact that we look for information that supports our original ideas is strange to me. But David is the truth and agree with 90% of his theorys.

[jimijams]

Nobody has the whole truth, that is if there is really a whole truth to be known. You need to keep evolving and I'm sure I'll leave this world still looking for truth.
The one thing I do agree with Icke is that this life is another form of the dream state, beyond that I'm still guessing.

[anoninnyc]

i personally believe most of what david icke has to say, but disagree w him regarding the shape shifting reptilians. i have my own theories, dont want to get into that here though. however, i very much admire the fact that icke has got balls and is a freethinker. i think that the technical details of the menace of the illuminati are not as important as the knowledge that love is the way to overcome fear, which is truly the greatest enemy, fear is what we must conquer ultimately and in doing so the illuminati, reptilians, or whatever dark force fits in with your reality.

[Anders Lindman]

Instead you get - half the people who think his ideas ARE MAD.


LOL. When I use my mainstream mode of thinking, then many of Icke's ideas really seem ludicrous. On the other hand, when I go into outside-the-box thinking, I'm not so sure. I'm extremely interested in finding out if it's possible to reshape my social conditioning and thereby open up to more possibilities and freedom.

[melbo]

very few people on this forum CAN accept his ideas - as he expresses them.

Isn't that what he's been telling us what to do though - think for ourselves and not just to accept what we're told like the media want us to. He doesn't have all the answers and his ideas evolve as he learns more, which is how it should be. You can read his books and a lot of it will resonate as truth in you and some things you won't accept to start with but may do as time goes on. I find shape shifting alien reptilians hard to believe, but can imagine the possibility of shape shifting demons for instance. It doesn't really matter, so long as you're open to the possibilities and are prepared to change your views as events unfold. What his books have done for me is to question everything I see and hear on TV etc and once you're aware of the agenda the lies are obvious.

[Anders Lindman]

his ideas evolve as he learns more, which is how it should be.

This is similar to Ken Wilber who calls his models Wilber 1, Wilber 2, Wilber 3, and so on. I examine ideas from many sources, such as David Icke, Bruce Lipton, Ken Wilber, Eckhart Tolle, Rupert Sheldrake, Catherine Ingram, Byron Katie, Candace Pert etc plus both mainstream and non-mainstream science.

[thirdwave]

I know here are a good few on here who have no respect for him at all, its just now this forum is moderated they cant use the forum to express to their hearts content...

but there are most who just see him as a guy with some very interesting info and a man who is not afraid to live outside the box...

I think David is a dude and has done loads for the cause and when people try to put him down, its not really a shock.... its just now you get people who claim to be awake.... but think that David is spreading the truth in a lying kind of way.... Its like listening to "Freemasons" putting plan B into action.

I'm like jeeezz! go take a brake from it all and go read some comics or something, then come back and have another think about it all!!

[eternal_spirit]

David takes the big issues and gives us alternative explanations of what's possible. Some of it's spot on, other stuff can't be proved, but in time who knows what he says could be proved true in the future.

[tinmenace]

i personally believe most of what david icke has to say, but disagree w him regarding the shape shifting reptilians

So, which part is it that you disagree with? The reptilians, or the shape shifting?

[phoenix1]

Watched Brixton last night...excellent stuff...I certainly respect anyone who is aware at the metaphysical level. IE Meta meaning "above" "beyond" the accepted norms of structured and imposed ,3D so called reality,and beyond Quantum Mechanics,Particle Theory,Wave Mechanics or whatever you want to call THAT (New) Physics. That "Physics" is out of date already, just as it's beginning to be explored.

There are many mansions...and within those ..are many more mansions...and the fractal golden mean ratio holds sway in ALL of them, at any given point defined or undefined.

Phoenix1:)

[celtic isis]

Reading all the threads here, especially the thread re: Law of attraction,
I wonder how many people here have ACTUALLY read David
ICKE'S most important book- Tales of the Time Loop.

And how many have actually grasped the full implacations of his conclusions?

Most, it seems to me, take his 'conclusions' and add their own
'interpretations' to it, especially the fraud of NLP - to make it seem
more acceptable to mainstream thinking.

ery few people on this forum CAN accept his ideas - as he expresses them.

Why is that?

It is a BIG surprise to me - as i was sure on the 'Dave ICKE' forum
- that you would get people who wanted to discuss his ideas.

Instead you get - half the people who think his ideas ARE MAD.

See the thread on LOC, for confirmation of this.

Anybody here who actually believes in what David Icke is trying to
explain to people??



.


i believe in what David Icke is trying to explain to people sean x :) and i am currently reading Tales From the Time Loop and well, it's outstanding isn't it! i'll have to read it a dozen times i think before i can really take in everything, there's just so much.

i only got this book last month, and like i had already hopped through the whole book the first day i got it! Through all the different levels...it's actually equal in its presentation as a book by Clive Prince and Lynn Picknett "The Priory of Sion - Inside the Shadowy World of Europe's Secret Masters". an equally outstanding masterpiece.

In fact, i can't even finish Tales From the Time Loop cause there's so much and and i'm finding myself re-reading over and over the same chapters cause it's just too good and too monumental what he says in this book. i wish everyone would read it, i really do and i recommend it whenever i get the opportunity! If i wrote a book on the scale of TFTTL, i would be so proud, and i hope Mr Icke is :)

I've been trying to point out on the thread at handbag that until you can understand the part that secret societies have to play in the world today and indeed have played for centuries, then you can never come to comprehend the threat that they play to us now in all of the major institutions that dictate our policies, who gets the prime positions of power in government etc etc or the shady goings on that Skull and Bones etc get up to, and these are the people who run our planet and who's fate we've put in their hands!! That's why it's wrong, our presidents etc should not be allowed to have pledged alegiances to these secret societies and govern our world at the same time.

It is so frustrating that people don't get Icke, but at the same time, i understand where he's at as in, the level of understanding at which he is now. He knows that nothing is impossible in this world/illusion but most people can't even comprehend how some elite could have manipulated us for so long, our "own people", nevermind that they could have a reptilian bloodline as well lol.

I'm getting to this point of understanding too a year on from doing my own research, which has led me to the same conclusions, everything is connected and now it makes perfect sense from the signs everywhere that this 'conspiracy' is going on. I know that nothing is impossible in this world, that our world is the most breathtaking miracle, the miracle of nature itself ( ok it's al illusion too but going away from that for a moment lol). People are so far from the wonders of nature and are so conditioned that they do not believe there is anything else. The esoteric knowledge is supressed at every corner throughout the system, yet the knowledege is there if you know where to look but who is going to look for knowledge they don't even know exists? And this is the knowledge that will set us free in our lives, and we should evolve and grow up alongside this knowledge from an early age and have all the tools we need to go through our lives here and our missions here and do it well. Instead life is all one big mystery, survival of the fittest crap that we are all taught to fear when it ends.

People just assume Icke is nuts, without ever reading any of his books. It's so sad. They won't even just take a look for themselves, and have it covered just in case he is right or has some things of value to say that they could learn from, no instead they just throw it all aside. :confused:


The funny thing is, people think the conspiracy theories are way out and don't make sense but when you actually read what the conspiracy theories are, the world makes perfect sense! For the first time in my life, i understand why the world if the way it is, and how it's been made this way. No more going around lost, and that's a huge thing!

The problem is the conditioned mind. People need to look at the world from a child's unconditioned point of view if they ever want to understand what's really going on. you have to forget everything you've been led to believe is true already. I remember when i read Cooper's book (and he was murdered for what he knew, what he did for us) i thought to myself - oh my god, have i been on this planet for the last 23 years or what lol. It was some shock and then that eventually led me on to Icke.

Sorry for this long post guys, i don't even know if it is relevant to the question you asked now seanx but i'll post it anyway. :)

[celtic isis]

This is similar to Ken Wilber who calls his models Wilber 1, Wilber 2, Wilber 3, and so on. I examine ideas from many sources, such as David Icke, Bruce Lipton, Ken Wilber, Eckhart Tolle, Rupert Sheldrake, Catherine Ingram, Byron Katie, Candace Pert etc plus both mainstream and non-mainstream science.

that's exactly it guys, his ideas or understanding evolves as he learns more.

It's even true of myself, cause i had even been conditoned a little befpore reading Cooper's book and i even thought, "secrets of the ages" (the esoteric knowledge) what the hell is that about lol. But now i know it's all true. And Cooper left hints that there was satanic worshipping going on, or satanic practices and i never thought that i would come to a point, a whole year later when i'd find out for myself that he was dead right.

Ken Wilber, must look him up too :)

Any of you guys into Micheal Tsarion? He great for the occult symbolism, if a little paranoid lol and not as witty as Icke, but he's spot on about the french artist Jean Cocteau and all the clues he left for us in his art and in the many chapels he frescoed. So i like Tsarion for that reason. :)

It was through Jean cocteau that my fella (a fellow crusader) and i found out the truth about the image of the devil being stolen by the catholic church and used to keep the esoteric truths a secret, by instilling fear of the image of the devil so that no one woulf look any further into what was behind it.

The devil image is actually of the "faunus", a creature who was the keeper of the oracles, and the holder of the truth. And they stole it and used it as the image of the devil, nice lol.

[mynameis]

Read the allegory, 'the cave."

[tinmenace]

The Cave is brilliant! That's EXACTLY what it's all about.

[michael]

I don`t know how to leave peaceful.

If you open fully, you will sooner or later die of cancer, as you are overrolled by emotional - dirt. - Just open the window!

Something evil has come to paradies.

[mrguitarbear]

I personally think Icke is a hero , a prophet , a misunderstood genius. Goodness only knows where he found his ideas and his vision from in the early 1990s.

David had the courage to stick to his beliefs in the face of enormous vilification and ridicule from the British media , like nothing you've ever seen , and then later the world media turned on him too. His ideas seemed totally ridiculous. The idea of a totalitarian state seemed pretty much impossible 15 years ago.

But the whole game has changed since 9/11 and David Icke is turning out to be right : I don't think you have to accept that he is right all the time , or believe in everything he says especially some of his wilder ideas , but I think you have to start taking what he says with at least a modicum of seriousness. With the ideas in his later books I think Icke is maybe becoming a modern day Krishnamurti or Gilbran : he is the only person who understands , I think , that the fear of death is the ultimate way by which we are controlled by religions and thus political systems. Politicians need fear by which to control us , and if there was no fear of death or damnation then we would be truly free and their power over us would be dissolved.

You don't have to believe in everything Icke says : I'm sure David would think it more important that you start to question why things happen and the reasons behind them , that you start to ask ' Who benefits ? ' and that you start to imagine how things could be different. In every situation you can bet that there is someone who is interested in maintaining the status quo for the benefit of their own vested interests.

Peace xxx

[cheeb]

the idea of a totalitarian state might have seeemed rediculous15 years ago but george orwel imagined it in1949i like sir david of icke his thing is the most informative for newsbut as for reptiles and shapeshifters i find thaT VERY DIFFICULT TO BELEIVE

[tinmenace]

but as for reptiles and shapeshifters i find thaT VERY DIFFICULT TO BELEIVE

Which part? The reptilian bloodline or the shape shifting?

[cheeb]

both really for me it involves a huge leap of faith

[eternal_spirit]

Does David believe all he writes lol ? He even says in his books his beliefs and views can change in time, with what ever evidence and alternative explanations he comes across along the path of research. :D

[tinmenace]

Ok, stay tuned. I'm going to post some information for you to consider ;)

[tinmenace]

Nope, not faith. There's evidence of both and if you cannot explain away the evidence then just like Arthur Conan Doyle, Sr. says "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

It might take me a few days to get you all the info I have, but I'm going to start first with the shape shifting thing. David Icke has always said that it's done through vibration and sound. Everything resonates to a vibration. Everything! And, so the key to shape shifting is using vibration and sound, as demonstrated in this video:

Sound and Salt - YouTube

I think you'll have to agree that the salt is shifting shape.



Ok, now that's out of the way, let's talk about the reptilians. This doesn't require a leap of faith, because this is not religion that requires you to believe in things based on faith even if it doesn't make sense. This is about uncovering hidden information that has been kept from us for thousands of years, and we totally have a right to know about it. I'm not going to try to convince you about the reptilian bloodlines but I'm going to give you something to think about.

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/questionmark.jpg The very very first question you have to ask yourself is, "Is it outside the realms of possibility that aliens could have come to this planet?"









Well? Is it possible or not?







http://www.globalfailure.com/images/questionmark.jpg The next thing I'd have to ask you is, "Is it outside the realms of possibility that these aliens were biologically different to us? Is it possible that they had reptilian qualities?"











What do you think? I think it's possible because surely we aren't naive enough to believe that ET beings could only look like us, and could only have our skin and blood, right?




So, assuming you agree that it's not outside the realms of possibility that an Alien race, with reptilian qualities, came here thousands of years ago, we're ready to go to the next step. :)


....to be continued....

[tinmenace]

Continued....


I want you to consider the Sumerian Tablets that were uncovered 150 years ago. These tablets speak of an Alien race that came to earth. It's up to you to decide if you want to accept the translator's version of the tablets, but I'd have to say that in light of further evidence and the knowledge that information is suppressed in order to keep us stupid, I'm inclined not to discount the Sumerian translations.

I found these two photos in a book called - Sumer: Cities of Eden - a volume of the Lost Civilizations series by Time Life. I've scanned them for you...

This first one is described as a nursing mother. The caption says, "It's lizardlike face is typical of the figurines provided by the Ubaid people, ancestors of the Sumerians". Yeah, what's up with the nostrils!?

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/UbaidPeriod.jpg

Wow! If that isn't enough, here's another one from the same book...

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/Ubaid5900-4000BC.jpg

If not reptilian in nature, then what?


...to be continued....

[cleft_asunder]

I couldn't agree with you more. I make up my own mind about information instead of blindly believing everything someone says (including David Icke)
In fact if you blindly believe what someone says without doing your own research, you may as well be one of the sheeple

The problem with this sort of thinking is that it's almost an exact opposite. Instead of believing what he writes, you've chosen to "think for yourself," and that "thinking for yourself" isn't the real deal--it isn't true thinking for yourself. Instead it is a statement that you've decided not to agree 100% with what anyone says, for the rest of your life. In other words, if a man comes along that DOES have 100% of the truth, you've arleady discounted him because you "think for yourself." So thinking for yourself is like an enemy or closed gate that prevents you from accepting the possibility that maybe this person or that person is completely right:"Oh, well, I think for myself. I didn't believe a word he said!"

But what I really want to say is that the thread author was asking is if you UNDERSTAND what Icke is writting about in his latest and most profound book, Infinite Love, rather than asking us to talk about Icke in general.

[cleft_asunder]

Ditto!

Most of the stuff David talks about, I had actually discovered from my own research a decade ago, before I had even heard of David Icke. If it rings true to me I take it onboard, if not I discard it. David himself says that he just gives the information, what you do with it is up to you.

There is very little I find in his writings that I disagree with. I do, however, believe that Jesus existed but that is not to say I believe in the Jesus portrayed by the Christian churches. That, I believe, is a myth built on previous myths of similar characters.

David is not a Guru, nor does he wish to be. I have the utmost respect for the man and for the people on this forum. I know there are some who totally disagree with a lot of what he says but that is their prerogative. I am not going to argue with them. There is no point and it is a total waste of energy.

As a wise man once said, " If you are wrong, you don't have the right to argue and if you are right, there is no need."

Do I believe in what he is trying to get across to people? Absolutely!

Do I agree with him on everything? Mostly :p

You have 100% of the truth. :p

[cleft_asunder]

David Icke is one of the most real and coherent people alive, in my opinion. His profluent style of writing and speaking is what makes seemingly complicated information easy to understand. He is absolutely on the money with everything I've read from him so far. After doing my own research and verifying information and also finding different ways to understand the information he's presented, I'm a different person completely.

I'm so grateful to him for his work.

But, I have to agree. I've noticed that some people don't get what David's really about, and have missed the point completely. This is not a novel, this is a study of the human condition and our collective consciousness. It's ongoing, and I have an epiphany at least once a week. The understanding grows daily and it's a work in progress ... well at least for me it is.

In other words, your life, or reality in general, is consistent with what Icke is saying. If he was wrong, the outside world wouldn't add up. His view through you would quickly crumble. But that does not happen to me. I can't fucking believe how profoundly accurate his information is. Okay I can. Honestly, you see the world --as you were saying tinmenace-- more clearly as time goes by, then you reach this state where you understand perfectly and without a doubt why everything in the world is the way it is. Instead of the information he gave you curmbling, it constantly reinforces itself. Now THAT... is genuine fucking truth. No self deception, no paranoia clouding the brain, just honest truth seeking without bias.

[cleft_asunder]

Isn't that what he's been telling us what to do though - think for ourselves and not just to accept what we're told like the media want us to. He doesn't have all the answers and his ideas evolve as he learns more, which is how it should be. You can read his books and a lot of it will resonate as truth in you and some things you won't accept to start with but may do as time goes on. I find shape shifting alien reptilians hard to believe, but can imagine the possibility of shape shifting demons for instance. It doesn't really matter, so long as you're open to the possibilities and are prepared to change your views as events unfold. What his books have done for me is to question everything I see and hear on TV etc and once you're aware of the agenda the lies are obvious.

Yes but I feel like we're all talking about different David Icke's here. Everyone is talking about Icke in general rather than specific. David Icke in Infinite Love is a different and closer-to-the-truth Icke than he was 15 years ago. His books are an account of moving upwards in knowlege. His new views definitely contradict his old. It would be better if we focused on the book Infinite Love because it is who Icke is currently.

[oneofmany]

The problem with this sort of thinking is that it's almost an exact opposite. Instead of believing what he writes, you've chosen to "think for yourself," and that "thinking for yourself" isn't the real deal--it isn't true thinking for yourself. Instead it is a statement that you've decided not to agree 100% with what anyone says, for the rest of your life. In other words, if a man comes along that DOES have 100% of the truth, you've arleady discounted him because you "think for yourself." So thinking for yourself is like an enemy or closed gate that prevents you from accepting the possibility that maybe this person or that person is completely right:"Oh, well, I think for myself. I didn't believe a word he said!" I think very few people, even on this forum, think for themselves, because their thinking process isn't functioning correctly.

But what I really want to say is that the thread author was asking is if you UNDERSTAND what Icke is writting about in his latest and most profound book, Infinite Love, and I can already clearly see that the first two posters are a 'no' since they weren't even able to grasp what the original poster was asking. Rather they decided to talk about how impervious they are to anyone thinking they have the truth, which itself is a fallasy.

This statement you've made is totally wrong for this reason. I've done my own research on these matters after reading the material and came to my own conclusions. Nowhere did I ever say that I didn't come to the same conclusions!!!

I stand by my statement

PS I think your way of thinking on this matter is skewed. Read and understand a statement before commenting, because at the end of the day, David says to come to your own conclusions on these matters and he admits that he doesn't have all the answers. In reality, NOBODY DOES! also I wasn't commenting on the first poster but the second.

[jimijams]

Yes but I feel like we're all talking about different David Icke's here. Everyone is talking about Icke in general rather than specific. David Icke in Infinite Love is a different and closer-to-the-truth Icke than he was 15 years ago. His books are an account of moving upwards in knowlege. His new views definitely contradict his old. It would be better if we focused on the book Infinite Love because it is who Icke is currently.
Would it not be possible then that in another fifteen years his views could be in conflict with those he holds now?

[cleft_asunder]

This statement you've made is totally wrong for this reason. I've done my own research on these matters after reading the material and came to my own conclusions. Nowhere did I ever say that I didn't come to the same conclusions!!!

I stand by my statement

PS I think your way of thinking on this matter is skewed. Read and understand a statement before commenting, because at the end of the day, David says to come to your own conclusions on these matters and he admits that he doesn't have all the answers. In reality, NOBODY DOES! also I wasn't commenting on the first poster but the second.

I changed the original post. I've been pissed off all day. Sorry.

[oneofmany]

I changed the original post. I've been pissed off all day. Sorry.
we all have those type of days, it's cool

[cleft_asunder]

Would it not be possible then that in another fifteen years his views could be in conflict with those he holds now?

A better question would be, how close is he to the universal truth? My opinion is that in his current knowledge, he is at the least VERY close. I don't believe that his current ideas will change drastically, if any. I am not saying that there isn't TONS to learn, but what I am saying is that in general, he understands what the game (Matrix universe) is all about. It is exactly like a puzzle. When you make a puzzle you get the framework first. When you have that everything falls into place. I believe David has at least the majority of the framework. He has a hell of a lot of the inside puzzle because of it.

When I first read Illusion, God it fucking blew my mind. It blew my mind because it all made so much sense. He took me farther than any other author. Not necessarily deeper into "X" subject, but much farther in the grand sceme. It was the first time I had read that this 2012 thing is just another shift in the "Matrix DVD," and that "there is something else going on." As in something more permanent, infinitely more profound, and not another meaningless cycle which takes us nowhere. It was the first time I had read about the Matrix being a nightmare illusion created by fear (Gnostic view essentially).Then he talks about how the soul is just another space suite that is also trapped inside the Matrix.

The man is a genuine truth seeker. Mrguitarbear here mentioned that he is a "a hero , a prophet , a misunderstood genius." I didn't think anyone was bold enough to say it. I'm from the other Icke forum and if you said that... well, it wouldn't be pretty. But damn, I really do think this man is the most profound and relevant person in these times, and because I do believe he is like a prophet, if not actually a prophet.

[truthcommission]

Yes but I feel like we're all talking about different David Icke's here. Everyone is talking about Icke in general rather than specific. David Icke in Infinite Love is a different and closer-to-the-truth Icke than he was 15 years ago. His books are an account of moving upwards in knowlege. His new views definitely contradict his old. It would be better if we focused on the book Infinite Love because it is who Icke is currently.
The David Icke that I was introduced to in the mid 1990's in a completely different man from the one he has evolved into. Here is a quote from Infinite Love...

David Icke...
...it was only after my journey consciously began after 1990 that I found answers that made sense...I began to realise that the conspiracy was much bigger than just a group of families seeking global control...the rabbit hole goes far deeper than even most conspiracy writers believe or are prepared to investigate.

The difference between the David Icke of Truth Vibrations and Infinite Love is enormous. Fore some people it is probably more of a challenge to believe what he says in the latter because it stretches the bounds of believability even further. But IRONICALLY it is being borne out by discoveries in other fields and by countless independent researchers, historians and truth seekers not to mention what mystics have being telling us for thousands of years particularly in regard to the reptilian races and multi dimensional nature of the universe/reality.

[anoninnyc]

So, which part is it that you disagree with? The reptilians, or the shape shifting?

the shapeshifting. but i dont have the answers for sure, as i have never seen anything like that in real life, just theorizing.

[lightbeing]

I believe in Icke 100%, I came to this conclusion after watching his Brixton lecture of last May.
I have never read any of his books, so my view of him was unbiased. I admit I haven't done a huge amount of looking into his views, but deep down I know what he says is the honest truth, no BS involved.
I go with what David says, "if it feels right it is right".
Many of the conclusions he has come to, I have as well a few years back before I started to follow his work.
One day I will hopefully meet up with David, which will be a privilege:)

[tinmenace]

the shapeshifting. but i dont have the answers for sure, as i have never seen anything like that in real life, just theorizing.

Hiya, Did you see the video clip I posted in response to that?

[tinmenace]

Yes but I feel like we're all talking about different David Icke's here. Everyone is talking about Icke in general rather than specific. David Icke in Infinite Love is a different and closer-to-the-truth Icke than he was 15 years ago. His books are an account of moving upwards in knowlege. His new views definitely contradict his old. It would be better if we focused on the book Infinite Love because it is who Icke is currently.

Right! But the fact remains that we're all still very much attached to our physical selves and our physical realities. Until the time that we're able to work ourselves free of that, we have to work hard at freeing other people also. And it starts with exposing the lie of their reality, and then work toward the infinite oneness (exposing the true lie of our reality). Without the inbetween information, it might not make sense to most.

[neutron flux]

I think you'll have to agree that the salt is shifting shape.


The salt may shift with sound but that's a long way from shifting a complex organism such as a human being.


Ok, now that's out of the way, let's talk about the reptilians. This doesn't require a leap of faith, because this is not religion that requires you to believe in things based on faith even if it doesn't make sense. This is about uncovering hidden information that has been kept from us for thousands of years, and we totally have a right to know about it. I'm not going to try to convince you about the reptilian bloodlines but I'm going to give you something to think about.

The very very first question you have to ask yourself is, "Is it outside the realms of possibility that aliens could have come to this planet?"



It still doesn't mean that George Bush etc are shape shifting reptilians, I think that is disinformation.
It seems to me that the reppies are 4d and pull the strings from there because that is their "home" - no need to actually live in this 3rd density environment and have "jobs".

[tinmenace]

The salt may shift with sound but that's a long way from shifting a complex organism such as a human being.

In what way? That video proves that shape shifting is possible through vibrations. Since their genetic make up is a bit different to ours (will post more about our gene that gives us the ability to regrow limbs, but is turned off at the fetal stage) we don't know what they're able to do because it's information that has remained hidden from us. Judging by that video, is it outside the realms of possibility that shape shifting is viable in a complex being?

[celtic isis]

you know before i got Icke's book TFTTL, i would never NEVER have thought the reptilian thing could be possible but it actually makes perfect sense, and really scares me at the same time lol.

The shape shifting thing, is basically a switch between genectic codes that are open in the DNA...for exapmle as the human foetus develops it goes through the various stages of "evolution", at one point it has gills, a tail etc...in some parts of the world people are born with a tail and in countries where the medical services aren't available, those unfortunate people have to go through their whole life with their tail, otherwise it is removed immediately.

This is because the genetic code (for reptilian traits) is open in that person, along side with their human genetic codes.

Shapshifting involves being able to switch between opening and closing certain codes int he DNA to appear human or reptilian etc. It also can be down to vibrations too, that these beings can appear in whatever form they wish to our eyes...

The satanic thing is connected as the people wiht these reptilian bloodlines have to drink human blood etc to keep their human codes open, aloso i was reading in TFTTL last night that it coudl be the same people "posessing" human bodies in order to manipulate the world for so long, when the human body they are inhabiting dies, they simply take a new one to continue. It is the same 13 bloodlines who have bbeen in power for a very very long time, that's why Blair, Bush, Clinton etc are all related to the Windsors. They have interbred with eachother for a long time to keep their blue blood "pure" and keep the reptilian heritage. :confused: i don't know lol

Obviously lol it is more complicated than this and when you read it all in the context of which Icke has put it, it really begins to make sense.


um, the Emerald tablets, the Sumerian tablets, they all tell the story of humnaity and not so humanity lol, also Credo Mutwa...so there has to be at least some basis for truth in it all.

there's an interesting link here also relating to modern aricraft and reptilian creatures in cave paintings and in pyramids...

http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html

http://www.crystalinks.com/ets.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/godswaterbuckets.html

[neutron flux]

That video proves that shape shifting is possible through vibrations.

It proves that salt is able to move into patterns using sound vibrations.

we don't know what they're able to do because it's information that has remained hidden from us.

So it's conjecture then, or a working hypothesis.

There is no reliable data to show that George Bush etc are shape shifting aliens.

[tinmenace]

That's right! Well said. I am reposting some info from a different thread because it pertains to this subject:

Posted by Pollock at this thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1972&highlight=Badylak) - This is not really about reptiles, but the fact that something like this can happen gives me a little more to think about when it comes to the reptillian theory!
http://www.katewerk.com/chimera.html




And my post thereafter, from the same thread:



Yes! Exactly!

And what about babies born with tails! What the heck happened with the DNA there? A misreading is what I think. There are even reports of tails observed in fetuses only for the tail to regress completely by 21 weeks.


http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/Pix/Baby_with_tail.jpg

http://www.dimaggio.org/images/Evolution/human_tail8.jpg



Human embryos don't look very human do they? I know, I know, they're developing....but it's interesting anyway.


http://www.globalfailure.com/images/embryo.jpg

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/embryo2.jpg



What about this amazing statement by Dr. Stephen Badylak, a team leader and director of the Center for Pre-Clinical Tissue Engineering at the University of Pittsburgh’s McGowan Institute for Regenerative Medicine:

"Mammals are able to regenerate limbs during the fetal stage, but not thereafter. Amphibians on the other hand can regenerate several body parts if lost. Eyes, limbs, and even spinal cords are regrown if damaged or severed in amphibian bodies. We’re looking for what genes get turned on and off to make one regenerative and one not. We can regenerate as a fetus. We know the potential is there, but it’s a matter of unlocking that potential."

So, in other words, we have the ability to regrow limbs (like salamanders, but the very gene that allows this in humans is SWITCHED OFF after the fetal stage!


http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/photos/santa_barbara_california/images/salamander%20portrait.jpg


Is that not a sign of genetic engineering? The Annunaki knew what they were doing when they engineered us.


This brings me to the question of a certain Mormon document called the Salamander Letter. I'll post about that in another thread.

[thirdwave]

Continued....


I want you to consider the Sumerian Tablets that were uncovered 150 years ago. These tablets speak of an Alien race that came to earth. It's up to you to decide if you want to accept the translator's version of the tablets, but I'd have to say that in light of further evidence and the knowledge that information is suppressed in order to keep us stupid, I'm inclined not to discount the Sumerian translations.

I found these two photos in a book called - Sumer: Cities of Eden - a volume of the Lost Civilizations series by Time Life. I've scanned them for you...

This first one is described as a nursing mother. The caption says, "It's lizardlike face is typical of the figurines provided by the Ubaid people, ancestors of the Sumerians". Yeah, what's up with the nostrils!?

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/UbaidPeriod.jpg

Wow! If that isn't enough, here's another one from the same book...

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/Ubaid5900-4000BC.jpg

If not reptilian in nature, then what?


...to be continued....



WOW!

that last pic looks like that bad robot dude "General Grievous" in Star Wars 3 .... its like credo mutawa said ...in many of those movies (mentioning star wars) allot of these creatures are shown....

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/generalgrievous/

[friendsinthesky]

Maybe a more appropriate heading to this thread should read; "Does anyboby here actually understand David ICKE?

Perhaps you could ask the forum supervisor 'limelady' what it actually means to "believe". Limelady has a very good understanding on words like 'believe'.

[anoninnyc]

It proves that salt is able to move into patterns using sound vibrations.



So it's conjecture then, or a working hypothesis.

There is no reliable data to show that George Bush etc are shape shifting aliens.

i thoroughly agree. now would one of the proponents of shapeshifting kindly subject bush or the royal family to frequencies that would force them to shapeshift? then i would believe it and it doesnt seem terribly hard to do if you are right

[anoninnyc]

and timeinspace did you really have to subject us to pictures of tails? gross. this isnt a reptilian thing, look more like tails on a dog or cat

[cleft_asunder]

The salt may shift with sound but that's a long way from shifting a complex organism such as a human being.



It still doesn't mean that George Bush etc are shape shifting reptilians, I think that is disinformation.
It seems to me that the reppies are 4d and pull the strings from there because that is their "home" - no need to actually live in this 3rd density environment and have "jobs".

From my understanding, the Reptilians who are shapeshifting are hybrids--the Royal family for example. They are a cross between human and Reptilian so that they can stay in this 3D dimension effortlessly, while the 4th density Reptilians (Draco's et cetera) are only able to stay in the 3rd dimension for short periods of time. The 4th density dark forces are like the henchman, while the real control is from the 5th density. Don't quote me on this.

[cheeb]

Continued....


I want you to consider the Sumerian Tablets that were uncovered 150 years ago. These tablets speak of an Alien race that came to earth. It's up to you to decide if you want to accept the translator's version of the tablets, but I'd have to say that in light of further evidence and the knowledge that information is suppressed in order to keep us stupid, I'm inclined not to discount the Sumerian translations.

I found these two photos in a book called - Sumer: Cities of Eden - a volume of the Lost Civilizations series by Time Life. I've scanned them for you...

This first one is described as a nursing mother. The caption says, "It's lizardlike face is typical of the figurines provided by the Ubaid people, ancestors of the Sumerians". Yeah, what's up with the nostrils!?

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/UbaidPeriod.jpg

Wow! If that isn't enough, here's another one from the same book...

http://www.globalfailure.com/images/Ubaid5900-4000BC.jpg

If not reptilian in nature, then what?


...to be continued....

Very goodpost,i've thia salt of thing before to do with the patterns in Rosslyn church,it is good evidence for crystalline structures to change their patternswhen subjected to different sound frequencies[similar to the doppler effect]but shapeshifting? have you any videos of anyone physically doing this.the pictures of the lizard thing are also impressive but they dont proove a race of shapeshifting lizards to me they look like representations of crocodiles.Im sure thet with these rivers in situ there must have been a lot of crocodiles. this place was called the fertile crescent in mesopotamia and was the cradle of civilasotion hence the birthplace of modern mythology.To me it is still a leap of assumption from carved representions of crocodile deitys to shapeshifting lizards,why not ss amphibians or ss insectoidd.If a sample of D.N.Awere obtained from one of thes modern ancestors of these lizards and analysed this baby could be put to bed once and for all.Anyhow excellent research and thank you for having the time to post it hope to see more.

[mrguitarbear]

the idea of a totalitarian state might have seeemed rediculous15 years ago but george orwel imagined it in1949i like sir david of icke his thing is the most informative for newsbut as for reptiles and shapeshifters i find thaT VERY DIFFICULT TO BELEIVE

Orwell wrote about a totalitarian world state in ' 1984 ' but going back to the late 1980s-early 1990s I don't think anyone imagined that it might actually be going to come about , besides the book was a warning for the year 1948 really rather than a piece of science-fiction.

If anything in the UK we were backwards looking , trying to replicate tea on the lawn , village greens , country bobbies and cucumber sandwiches with PM John Major's Back to Basics campaign ! Even with Blair in 1997 , nobody expected him to start challenging fundamental rights and freedoms and such like. The Cold War was over , everything was going to get better - or so we thought anyway. Now look were we are.

People laughed at David Icke because his ideas seemed too crazy to be true , even the recent Channel 5 programme was tentatively labelled ' David Icke : Was He Right ? '. But David IS on the right track , as someone said he has put together the framework of the jigsaw puzzle and now hes trying to fit the pieces in. Sometimes I'm sure that he has taken a wrong turn , but he is willing to revise and learn - what can anyone do but stumble blindly forward throught the darkness looking for the truth ?

The man deserves our total admiration.

[cheeb]

you know as well as me that any subjective beleifs or views will be picked up instantly on a forum like this .I should imagine that most of the people are on here because they have questioned the status quowhich im sure david icke must have done but we are all the same in a way swimming against the tide you would have come to this conclusion eventually with or without david icke he just accelerated you

[tinmenace]

No, I don't have any videos of people shifting shape. I wish I did. :rolleyes:

If you've made up your mind that you will not believe that shape shifting is possible, then nobody can force you...and that's your right. You believe whatever makes you happy.

However, I think it would be a mistake to give up now. I get the feeling that you want everyone to bring the information to you before you'll believe it, and really what you should be doing is your OWN research in order to prove it to yourself, or to debunk it. If you've chosen to stagnate in your research...that's truly a shame, but once again it's your right and only you can decide what level of delusion you're happy living with.

...it is good evidence for crystalline structures to change their patternswhen subjected to different sound frequencies[similar to the doppler effect]but shapeshifting?...

I'll leave you with some information from one of David's recent newsletters:

"The body is an incredibly sophisticated computer, as I have shown in my last two books, Tales from the Time Loop and Infinite Love is the Only Truth - Everything Else is Illusion. The membrane of every human cell is a liquid crystal and, depending on who you ask, we have between 50 and 75 trillion of them. Our cells are computer chips.Bruce Lipton, a research scientist and former medical school professor, produced a detailed study of the cell membrane in his book, Biology of Belief (Mountain of Love/Elite Books, Santa Rosa, California, 2005). He concluded that 'the membrane is a liquid crystal semiconductor with gates and channels'. These 'gates and channels' open and close in response to electrical impulse to allow in the good stuff and defend against the toxic."

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/07/march/humanchip.jpg

"Semiconductors are excellent conductors of electricity and can also be used as insulators. They are found in electrical devices like computers, digital audio players and cell phones and they are at the heart of microprocessor chips and transistors. Anything that is computerised or uses radio waves depends on semiconductors and here we have a semiconductor liquid crystal membrane on every cell. The principle component of semiconductors used in our electronics and chips is the silicon crystal, hence the term 'Silicon Valley' in California and the 'silicon economy'. Shortly after Lipton realised that the cell membrane was a 'liquid crystal semiconductor with gates and channels', he picked up a book to see computer chips defined as ' ... a crystal semiconductor with gates and channels'. He writes:

'I spent several more intense seconds comparing and contrasting biomembranes with silicon semiconductors. I was momentarily stunned when I realised that the identical nature of their definitions was not a coincidence. The cell membrane was indeed a structural and functional equivalent ... of a silicon chip.'

The cells are, in part, the hard drive of the body computer with the crystalline DNA holding the genetic memory. The central processing unit or CPU is called the brain. A CPU is actually known as the 'brain of the computer' because, like the human brain, it reads, controls and processes all communications traffic.

The brain decides what to make of information, how to respond and where it should go. We should remember it is the brain that receives the information from the five senses and decides how to decode them. If you can manipulate and program the brain to read these messages in a different way you can get someone to eat an apple and yet taste a banana. Skilled hypnotists do this sort of thing in their stage shows. We don't feel pain at the location of a blow; we feel it when the information about the blow has reached the brain to be decoded into 'ouch!'."

So, there's more to it, isn't there. The truth is out there, you just have to dig a little bit.

Good luck to ya. :)

[cheeb]

No time and ace im only at the beginning of my research i bought a computor after jan and its the greatest research tool i have ever come across im learning how to type the thing i want to do is put links in .im not looking for peoplle to affirm my things or disagrre with them just looking for a bit of truth

[tinmenace]

Excellent Cheeb, the only thing I would recommend is not close your mind to possibilities before you've completed the research, because once you find the truth, you'll realize that it's stranger than fiction. Truly!

So, share your progress, and always feel free to ask questions. That's what a learning process is. ;)

[cheeb]

im sure that when you come onto a forum such as this you do with a little bit of luggage .there is such a small amount of people here and as you would expect pewople who can think for themselvesa are not going to be herded about like cats so fair play to us thats probably why you find short term disagreememt but long term things as we learn more

[anoninnyc]

i believe that shapeshifting is possible, without a doubt but that does not mean that it is true. i dont know for sure either way, but until i have more evidence i dont believe in shapeshifting but my mind is open.

[neutron flux]

If you've made up your mind that you will not believe that shape shifting is possible, then nobody can force you...and that's your right.


It's not about possiblities, it's about hard data to show that George Bush etc are in fact shapeshifting aliens.

You believe whatever makes you happy.


I don't want to believe, I want to know. Regardless whether or not it "makes me happy".

However, I think it would be a mistake to give up now.


Why do you assume we've given up? it seems you've pitched your tent.

I get the feeling that you want everyone to bring the information to you before you'll believe it

Yes, that's how it usually works; gather the available data and make a hypothesis. However, in this case there is more evidence to show that Geoge Bush etc are not shape shifters, is there not?

what you should be doing is your OWN research in order to prove it to yourself, or to debunk it. If you've chosen to stagnate in your research...that's truly a shame, but once again it's your right and only you can decide what level of delusion you're happy living with.


Why do you assume that not believing this is somehow stagnation and therefore delusion on the part of the researcher? The research seems to suggest that there is disinformation out there from such sources as cointelpro to thwart the truth seeker and lead them into a dead end.

[tinmenace]

See, the problem with people is that they are unable to think for themselves and unable to apply critical thinking.

This is why they wait to be spoon fed information. If I spoon feed you the information, I'm enabling your dependency on other people's opinions which you will adopt as your own. All this is part of your programming. I oppose this programming and I won't perpetuate it or enable it. Sorry.

I'm here to help free minds, not keep them dependent on a system that tells them what to think.

If you had read any of David Icke's books, you would have found some compelling evidence that would force you to keep an open mind about shape-shifting reptilian bloodlines and their worship of Babylonia. The key is for you to do further research because only then will you prove it to YOURSELF.

It has taken me a few years to read books, do research at the library, watch tons of footage, listen to interviews. I'm not able to post everything that I've learned in 3 years just to satisfy your need for instant gratification.

The path to true intellectual and spiritual freedom is something you have to walk by yourself. I've posted more than enough information to point any interested person in the right direction. All it takes is a curious mind and a desire for truth.

I can only show you the door. You have to walk through it. Getting hissy won't change any of that.

Good luck to ya.

[neutron flux]

See, the problem with people is that they are unable to think for themselves and unable to apply critical thinking.


You should take some of your own advice. This is the point, where's your critical thinking?

This is why they wait to be spoon fed information. If I spoon feed you the information, I'm enabling your dependency on other people's opinions which you will adopt as your own. All this is part of your programming. I oppose this programming and I won't perpetuate it or enable it. Sorry.


You've adopted David Ickes opinion whereby he spoon fed you the information, and this seems to be part of your programming.

I'm here to help free minds, not keep them dependent on a system that tells them what to think.


To help free minds to adopt a theory as truth when there is a lack of information to show that George Bush etc are aliens. :confused:

If you had read any of David Icke's books, you would have found some compelling evidence that would force you to keep an open mind about shape-shifting reptilian bloodlines and their worship of Babylonia. The key is for you to do further research because only then will you prove it to YOURSELF.


Yes, I've read all of Davids work except for "Iam me, Iam free". I think you're missing the point: there is insufficient evidence to show that George Bush etc are shape shifters. Psychopaths, yes.

It has taken me a few years to read books, do research at the library, watch tons of footage, listen to interviews. I'm not able to post everything that I've learned in 3 years just to satisfy your need for instant gratification.



Well, I've been into this at least 12 years, not that it's of any relevance.

The path to true intellectual and spiritual freedom is something you have to walk by yourself. I've posted more than enough information to point any interested person in the right direction.

You're assuming that the shape shifting theory is the correct one and will somehow show us the path to intellectual and spiritual freedom.

I can only show you the door. You have to walk through it. Getting hissy won't change any of that.



"Self-importance is our greatest enemy." - Don Juan

[jimijams]

Hey neutron flux great sig and audio. Are you a student of Gudjieff's teachings?

[cleft_asunder]

You should take some of your own advice. This is the point, where's your critical thinking?



You've adopted David Ickes opinion whereby he spoon fed you the information, and this seems to be part of your programming.



To help free minds to adopt a theory as truth when there is a lack of information to show that George Bush etc are aliens. :confused:



Yes, I've read all of Davids work except for "Iam me, Iam free". I think you're missing the point: there is insufficient evidence to show that George Bush etc are shape shifters. Psychopaths, yes.



Well, I've been into this at least 12 years, not that it's of any relevance.



You're assuming that the shape shifting theory is the correct one and will somehow show us the path to intellectual and spiritual freedom.



"Self-importance is our greatest enemy." - Don Juan

You know there are few, few things less irritating and rude on a forum than quoting and replying to each individual sentence. It ranks up there with trolling in my opinion. VERY rude.

[tinmenace]

blah blah blah

Ho Hum...

[timestop24]

I think Icke is on the right track. All is not what it seems, thats for sure...

[neutron flux]

You know there are few, few things less irritating and rude on a forum than quoting and replying to each individual sentence. It ranks up there with trolling in my opinion. VERY rude.

I don't know how you equate replying to each sentence with relevent commentary as "trolling", those with eyes to see can notice I'm bringing forth critical thinking into a theory that is shaky at best, i.e. George Bush etc are shape shifters.

Seeing as you are offended I'll post a Castaneda quote:

"Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it - what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellowmen. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone."

[neutron flux]

Hey neutron flux great sig and audio. Are you a student of Gudjieff's teachings?


Thanks, I do subscribe to "4th Way" teachings from the likes of Gurdjieff as well as Ouspensky and Mouravieff. It seems to me if we want to change the world first we must change ourselves and look at our "programs" and mechanical behaviour that we employ on a moment to moment basis and become more objective and "think with a hammer" when digesting "food" in terms of knowledge.

[jimijams]

Thanks, I do subscribe to "4th Way" teachings from the likes of Gurdjieff as well as Ouspensky and Mouravieff. It seems to me if we want to change the world first we must change ourselves and look at our "programs" and mechanical behaviour that we employ on a moment to moment basis and become more objective and "think with a hammer" when digesting "food" in terms of knowledge.
Good stuff, totally agree about changing yourself, like Tolstoy's famous quote.. "Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself".
I'd like to read Ouspensky when I get a chance, I've started to read Beezelbub's tales to his grandson by Gurdjieff, haven't finished it yet, very tough read.

[john white]

The David Icke that I was introduced to in the mid 1990's in a completely different man from the one he has evolved into. Here is a quote from Infinite Love...

David Icke...


The difference between the David Icke of Truth Vibrations and Infinite Love is enormous. Fore some people it is probably more of a challenge to believe what he says in the latter because it stretches the bounds of believability even further. But IRONICALLY it is being borne out by discoveries in other fields and by countless independent researchers, historians and truth seekers not to mention what mystics have being telling us for thousands of years particularly in regard to the reptilian races and multi dimensional nature of the universe/reality.

Actually, I dont look at icke as being radically different from the "Truth Vibration" days, meerly more refined in vision and expression. A careful reading of "truth vibrations" will show that the perspective's expressed in "infinite Love" were all there, even then. IOf course Icke doesn't have all the answers, and no-one who ever thought that they, or another, did inevitably leads to imosition and some form of disaster or another. One of Ickes most endearing qualities is that he appears to truly understand what socrates meant when he declared that realising how little he knew was the very foundation of developing humility. We have a lifetime and do what we can with it: and soon as we realise that life, amongst other things, is our chance to "do the work": and in that, Icke is a true grafter

[limelady]

nutron flux is right, there really is no definitive proof for reptilian shape-shifting. However there is now a growing body of evidence (not least of which are witness reports to such events) that shape-shifting may indeed be taking place.

The only way we will really know for sure is if somebody captures one on video or somebody famous does an unexpected shift in a very public place in front of multiple witnesses.

Actually, I posted something to this effect on the Love Iran thread [url]http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1987&highlight=Love+Iran (post 6) where I suggested it might be a fun forum experiment to see if we could concentrate our efforts on making a suspected reptilian hybred (Dick Cheney for instance) do a public shapeshift. :D

A press conference where there are many cameras would be perfect in my opinion ;)

[phoenix1]

David Icke in my opinion for what its worth has great insight, but I think many of you people above are turning David, into something akin to "David Icke" "The Product." "The Godform"
Wrong Message.

Phoenix1

[jimijams]

IOf course Icke doesn't have all the answers, and no-one who ever thought that they, or another, did inevitably leads to imosition and some form of disaster or another. One of Ickes most endearing qualities is that he appears to truly understand what socrates meant when he declared that realising how little he knew was the very foundation of developing humility. We have a lifetime and do what we can with it: and soon as we realise that life, amongst other things, is our chance to "do the work": and in that, Icke is a true grafter
Spot on there John.. The older and supposedly wiser I get the more Socrates words ring true. The best we can do is try to avoid being ignorant which I believe is one of the great 'sins'. Do your best, listen to your heart and try to help others as much as you can is my life's motto, anyway who needs absolute truth if it indeed does exist, there would be no purpose to go on otherwise. In mystery there is magik and infinite possibility and thats what keeps me going, in 3d anyway.:)

[albie]

Ditto!

Most of the stuff David talks about, I had actually discovered from my own research a decade ago, before I had even heard of David Icke. If it rings true to me I take it onboard, if not I discard it. David himself says that he just gives the information, what you do with it is up to you.

There is very little I find in his writings that I disagree with. I do, however, believe that Jesus existed but that is not to say I believe in the Jesus portrayed by the Christian churches. That, I believe, is a myth built on previous myths of similar characters.

David is not a Guru, nor does he wish to be. I have the utmost respect for the man and for the people on this forum. I know there are some who totally disagree with a lot of what he says but that is their prerogative. I am not going to argue with them. There is no point and it is a total waste of energy.

As a wise man once said, " If you are wrong, you don't have the right to argue and if you are right, there is no need."

Do I believe in what he is trying to get across to people? Absolutely!

Do I agree with him on everything? Mostly :p

If only this were true here. I come across so much rubbish that people think is fact.

[neutron flux]

there really is no definitive proof for reptilian shape-shifting. However there is now a growing body of evidence (not least of which are witness reports to such events) that shape-shifting may indeed be taking place.

The only way we will really know for sure is if somebody captures one on video or somebody famous does an unexpected shift in a very public place in front of multiple witnesses.


But then again that presupposes that the leaders on the world stage are in fact shape shifters and you're hypothesis is correct without sufficient data. There's no point in sitting back and waiting for someone to prove it to you as you've already made up your mind that it is true. What if it's the wrong conclusion?

When it comes to eye witnesses such as Arizona Wilder, you have to wonder how reliable are these people? If she was part of a mind control program then she may be used by Cointelpro to disseminate disinformation. Or the use of drugs and hypnotism to create an effect of shape shifting or seeing things on another level (glimpsing 4D?). Another possibility is the beaming of hallucination into the brain via mind control devices which we all know have been around at least since the 70's.

The "synchronicities" that have brought up eye witness accounts could be cointelpro plants, mind control slaves or even a hyperdimensional manipulation to create the illusion of a pattern that can confirm a wrong belief due to the "proof" of the "synchronicity".

I have no problem in accepting the possibility of shape shifting beings in this vast universe, the problem is attributing it to the puppets we see on the world stage.

It seems to me the more we look outside for the lizard "out there", we overlook the lizard inside ourselves and neglect the work and effort to vanquish the predator mind.

Or so I think. :)

[seanx]

If not you, who?
if not now, when?


I believe the proof will eventually come from people - actually
manifesting what all the scientists and materialists tell us is the
impossible.

neutron flux may be right in always wanting proof or data to back
up claims- but in this case, we're in a catch 22 situation.

The scientists tell us they believe when they see it ...however, it seems
the truth is you'll SEE it - when you BELIEVE it.

In that case, we have to put aside the 'evidence' we see all around us
- and still hold to a belief that what we believe is possible - even though
all the evidence says it's not.

So, it's not going to be easy, despite the american-pop psychology
claims of simplistic books like the Secret - that all you need do is
change your thoughts.

I'm not saying the book is wrong - or trying to mislead people - but
it does not take in account the 'level' of belief or 'knowing'
you must reach to achieve real change.

I had an aunt once who had cancer.

She HATED all this positive thinking stuff and the idea that your mind
made any difference at all to your illness.

She would spew out literal hate to anybody who mentioned
it to her.

Five days before she died, she told me why.

She hated people mentioning it - because they didn't understand it.

They hadn't got a clue.

Saying crap like changing your thoughts won't do any difference.
That's cosmetic boll***.

You have to go DEEP into your cells..into your organs,
INTO THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF YOUR VERY BLOOD and
you have to literally reprogram them ....and behind that
programming HAS to be a solid, resonant, consistent
confidence and faith.

Not faith as a fancy word but as a real frequency of energy,
that can be MEASURED and FELT.

Try that, she said, while all around you, people were dying of the
same illness you had.

Try it also when you are frightened to death,
not only of dying...but leaving 4 young children behind.


She was angry because she knew, deep in her bones it WAS possible
...but she also knew it was too late for her.

Too late to change a lifetime of ('implanted') beliefs that such a thing
was possible...

it was too deeply ingrained in her that she was powerless over
a rampant disease.

And yet, these people still say it's just a question of.....
changing your thoughts or positive thinking.

She died a weel later.

So I believe this is a skill that has to be learned and practiced.

And that is what, I think the future will be about.

Now, that the belief climate is changing, ordinary but amazing
people will come forward from all over the world demonstrating
amazing things..literally proving in daily life the possibilites
David mentions in Tales of the Time Loop.

Exactly what this forum has started to do with it's rain experiment.

And these people will provide living examples to people, say in cancer
wards dieing.

They will not only provide living proof of what is possible --but they will
be able to teach and help these people.

And as that happens and healings multipy ...what will the doctors say then.

[mrguitarbear]

I think its important to keep an ' open mind ' about the reptilian theory and not dismiss it totally out of hand , but its not something I personally believe in. The World Conspiracy doesn't need to have reptile shape-shifters and people controlled by reptiles to make it work , merely vested interest and a desire to control the people and keep them ignorant.

I'm more interested in Icke's political and spiritual ideas in general , the fact that he was saying stuff years ago that is coming to pass now makes him worthy of attention : the reptile stuff may well be true but I'd like to see more evidence for it.

[mrguitarbear]

I think its possible to heal your life , but it does involve a big change in thought patterns and some people won't be able to do it , for some people it will simply be beyond their ability to change. Plus when its your time to die , its your time to die and thats it - you can't stop it.

I started my research into healing with Lucia Capacchione's ' The Picture of Health ' and Louise L. Hay's book ' You Can Heal Your Life ' is absolutely necessary for giving the mental causes of illness.

[tinmenace]

This is not in response to the post directly above mine, but maybe several posts back....

The truth of it all is that none of this is even real, and if you cannot believe that shape shifting is real, you're most definitely not ready for the real truth, which is that we are all caught in an illusion.

But! There is a mass awakening, and this is going to change reality for everyone. For those hopelessly attached to their physical selves and their physical lives...I'm afraid it's going to be a helluva rude awakening. Since we're all one and connected, once the dam breaks, everyone is going to wake up, and those that have not prepared themselves are going to have a heck of a time understanding what's going on. Because although we're all droplets of water (like David explains it) we together make one ocean, so if one flows through the dam wall, everyone else is going with.

So, it's not that anyone is trying to con you into believing in things like shape shifting, it's just that you have to pass through a series of 'gates' (for the lack of a better word) and as each opens, a world of knowledge and understanding becomes you.

If you're stubbornly stuck at gate 1, with your arms folded, tapping your foot, waiting for someone to turn your light on, you're only hurting yourself. Now is the time to wake up and get a move on. Do what you have to do to reach a higher level of consciousness, and part of that process is understanding this dreamworld you believe to be real. Understand how it's done, what fuels it, and how to free yourself and others from it.

[cheeb]

Its quite possible that the universe is teeming with life,some of it may be sentient,its equally possible that life may have evolved on this planet only uyntil we find evidense its all speculation and wishful thinking.Its alright to see a beautiful garden without imagining faeries at the bottom of it,in the same way as seeing conspiracys and plots[before or after the event]without seeing shape shifting aleins behind them
There are enough monsters about we dont have to invent new ones.

[tinmenace]

Its quite possible that the universe is teeming with life,some of it may be sentient,its equally possible that life may have evolved on this planet only uyntil we find evidense its all speculation and wishful thinking.Its alright to see a beautiful garden without imagining faeries at the bottom of it,in the same way as seeing conspiracys and plotswithout seeing shape shifting aleins behind them
There are enough monsters about we dont have to invent new ones.

[B]Enough monsters? So, you believe in monsters then?

Did you comprehend my previous post?

[cheeb]

Monsters meaning war mongers,fear spreaders and manipulators etc not literally
I was searching for the truth as presented by evidence and testable and retestable data which was the thing that could set you free as opposed to tunnel vision beleif systems
to me these sort of ideas have imprisoned us throught history i beleive mre in alturism than us and them to me this is the way foreward rather than catyclism
the rising tide lifts all boats in the harbour,but hey thats just my opinion and is very much subject to change with the more i learn.

[neutron flux]

The truth of it all is that none of this is even real, and if you cannot believe that shape shifting is real, you're most definitely not ready for the real truth, which is that we are all caught in an illusion.

But! There is a mass awakening, and this is going to change reality for everyone. For those hopelessly attached to their physical selves and their physical lives...I'm afraid it's going to be a helluva rude awakening. Since we're all one and connected, once the dam breaks, everyone is going to wake up, and those that have not prepared themselves are going to have a heck of a time understanding what's going on. Because although we're all droplets of water (like David explains it) we together make one ocean, so if one flows through the dam wall, everyone else is going with.

So, it's not that anyone is trying to con you into believing in things like shape shifting, it's just that you have to pass through a series of 'gates' (for the lack of a better word) and as each opens, a world of knowledge and understanding becomes you.

If you're stubbornly stuck at gate 1, with your arms folded, tapping your foot, waiting for someone to turn your light on, you're only hurting yourself. Now is the time to wake up and get a move on. Do what you have to do to reach a higher level of consciousness, and part of that process is understanding this dreamworld you believe to be real. Understand how it's done, what fuels it, and how to free yourself and others from it.


I am well aware of the concept that "nothing is real", it's a concept that has been around a great deal longer before David wrote about it.

It still doesn't mean that George Bush etc have the qualities of shape shifting.

I think there is some sort of "awakening" going on and I'm sure the PTB are well aware of this hence the efforts of "cosmic" cointelpro to ruse the truth seeker into dead ends.

Not to mention the efforts of our hyperdimensional "kingpins".

Let me ask you this: How do you reach a higher level of consciousness and free yourself from the illusion?

[mrguitarbear]

Let me ask you this: How do you reach a higher level of consciousness and free yourself from the illusion?

Red pill or blue pill ? <sigh> if only it were that simple...

[cheeb]

and if you reach a higher level of conscientious throgh anger its not really a place that seems pleasant i think i would rather stay on a lower level of conscioiness

[tinmenace]

It's been an ongoing process for years and years. I've felt different and out of place all my life and almost everything felt off kilter.

Something was wrong but I could never ever figure out what it was, and from a very young age, I began to focus on the huge inconsistencies around me, and in society...in the world. I wanted to figure it all out, because the feeling of being out of place was driving me absolutely insane, and I knew no other way to escape it other than to confront it head on.

The starting point for me was religion. It seemed to be in massive conflict all around me. My father came from a Mormon background and then converted to Judaism. He forbade anyone from indoctrinating us with religion and insisted that Christianity was a hoax. He also never forced his own beliefs on me. In his mind it was up to me to decide what I would believe in. His family (my grandmama, aunts and cousins) have all remained Mormon and since I spent a lot of time around them and their church activities, I was exposed to a lot of their rituals and beliefs.

My mother was a rigid Dutch Reformed Christian and even though she never ever defied my father to sneak Christianity in on us, she has remained faithful to her religion to this day. All my mother's family (my aunts and cousins) were full blown Christians and really loved their religion. I spent tons of time with them at church functions, and youth get-togethers.

Many people tried to convince me that all I had to do was hand my life over to the 'Lord' and I'd be 'saved' yada yada. Wow! That easy eh? So, wanting to believe that all the pain in my heart would simply go away, I tried it. But you know what? Nothing changed. I didn't feel any different and nothing changed. It didn't miraculously change my situation, it didn't relieve my pain like everyone promised me it would.

This got me thinking about what a hoax it all was and I would watch people in church pretending to be so happy and holy and wonder how they managed to lie to the world so well. I knew that when nobody was looking, some of those so-called Christian men, couldn't wait to corner me and try cop a feel. I was just a child, but it was these nasty encounters that set me searching for the meaning of it all.

I read all kinds of books about all kinds of religions and I talked to countless people in an attempt to unlock the information that just wouldn't reveal itself to me. Through this process, I found that people didn't really know truly what they believed in, they just had 'faith' that it was so. Since religion seemed like such a big deal in the world, I really believed that the path to truth and enlightenment was to find the truth about who God was and what my purpose was.

As if on queue, I received a gift of two books from a man I'd started a conversation with at the train station on the way home from work one day. I explained to him (all the way home) how frustrated I was. How the truth about God stayed hidden from me. The next day, I saw him again and he gave me two books. One was "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran and the other was a Rosicrucian book called "The Mystical Life of Jesus Christ". I never saw that man again.

Those two books unlocked a gate in my mind, and so, spirituality and the mystics kept me busy for years. I still never felt comfortable with institutionalized spirituality or mysticism, and I was more of a spectator than a participant. This was an important phase in my life because even though I still wasn't getting it (the meaning of life), I felt that I'd made progress and that I was more in tune with myself than ever before. But that also grew stale and again I found myself frustrated and endlessly searching.

In the meantime, I'd traveled out of South Africa to Europe and through a weird set of coincidences I found myself in the United States, which is where I have been for more than a decade.

Life is like a river, you go where it takes you, and that is really what has happened to me.

To cut a very long story short(er), I still felt an increasing frustration in my search for truth (what is God?...and what am I doing here?). I felt like I was here for a reason, I felt that it was important, but Geeeezuz!!!....would someone please frickin' tell me what it is! Then I read the book "The Da Vinci Code" and I was stunned! Was any of it true? In my search to sort fiction from fact, I next read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail". Interesting and enlightening but still no cigar.

And then, as if on queue (again), the most important gate in my life thus far opened when I was watching the History Channel. It was a program about secret societies, and since I'd read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" just a few months earlier, it was something I was interested in watching....and there was David Icke! It was during that one hour show that A LOT of things came into focus although the puzzle was still not complete. Here was this man effortlessly untangling this massive knot inside my head, that had plagued me all my life. This was the key to the next stage of my life. I rushed out and bought "The Biggest Secret" immediately after the show.

It's a few years now, and I have never ever felt more at peace with myself. No longer do I feel frustrated at what I see around me. No longer do I stare at people and wonder how they apparently seem so happy (because I KNOW that behind closed doors they're different!). Now it all makes sense to me. I now have a better understanding of the world than ever before and it all feels absolutely right!

I do tons of research, because the understanding of quantum physics, for example, is not something that comes naturally to people like me (scientifically screwed!). In fact it's not given enough exposure at all, and yet it should be because it proves that nothing is what it seems.

So, this has been my awakening process told as briefly as possible. I'm 39, and I can say honestly that I've been on this path for the last 30 years or so. I now know why the world never made sense before. I said elsewhere that I have an epiphany of understanding weekly as I research new information.

Why am I not levitating out of my body free from this physical world? Because I'm a part of you and every other person still caught in a deep coma. It's our job to help you and others awaken because only when there are enough people truly awakened, the veil of illusion will tear open and we'll fly free of it.

In the meantime, while I'm still connected to this physical world, I'm compelled to to talk to everyone that will listen. There are some, like me, that have maybe felt the same way all their lives and are also looking for the key to unlock another gate. I want to be there for those people, and help those that I can. Mostly I encounter people that don't have the same desire to search for truth. Mostly I come across people that are locked tightly into their physical reality and operate from that level. It's very hard to reach those people, but I won't give up. This right now, is what I'm meant to do..

[tinmenace]

and if you reach a higher level of conscientious throgh anger its not really a place that seems pleasant i think i would rather stay on a lower level of conscioiness

Never confuse frustration with anger. ;)

[seanx]

Reading the thread here, I think we've gone off the main point
( though it was great reading tinmenace's posts especially her
post and pictures on shape-shifting - and her last post).

Bu the whole idea behind 'tales of the time loop' is not the
shape-shifting or the conspiracy - all important though they
are - but one KEY Understanding that changes everything.


REALITY is not what WE all believe it is. Reality is not what 99%
of people think it is.


It is as EXTRAORDINARY as Quantum phyiscs is now telling us.


In each moment, there is no time and there is no space.
Everything is happening now. Not only is everything happening
NOW - but EVERY possibility of now is happening now.


So what happens to us is determined by our choice, IF we were
AWAKE and realized that every possibility exists.


it's like going to a giant movie-house where infinite films are been
shown.


You can watch ( experience) every possible ending and variations
of the film if you wish.


But most of us are like the film goer who has been 'TOLD' there
is only one 'movie' on - and you have no choice in seeing other
possibilites.


And all this applies to all our lives now.

let's say you want to attract a beautiful woman.

Now all realites exist now - so in theory, there is a reality - where
you do attract the beautiful woman.


But what is the probability of you attracting that reality now?


The answer lies is your deepest feelings - if you can believe it is possible?

Now - you can't fool frequency - you may 'think' or even
have a surface 'belief' that you will attract her - but deep now,
in your cells, in your bones - do you think you are good enough,
confident enough, strong enough to entice her?


Again, you can't fool frequency and you will experience a reality that
shows you exactly what you REALLY feel and believe.


Maybe the girl smiles at you - and moves off and is not interested.

Fine - that one valid reality. it's not good or bad. It' showing you
where your beliefs are really at.


(Now, in this simple example, don't go choosing a famous model or
a married woman. There is nothing stopping you if you wish, but
the amount of beliefs you would have to change, including the
married woman's beliefs etc. would be quite considerable - although
in theory that reality does exist although the probability of you
actualizing it now would be very slim)


So the truth is, moment-by moment as your beliefs and feelings
shift, you will be shifting in and out of different realites.


it happens so quickly like the FRAMES of a movie that we don't notice it.


So it is actually a great game we are in - but we have totally forgotten.


That why TALES of the time loop ends off with the great realization
that it's all a hilarious GAME.


Yes, it has turned into a NIGHTMARE -that because we think we're
struck in only one version of reality.


Again I though tinmenace put it well:


Why am I not levitating out of my body free from this physical world? Because I'm a part of you and every other person still caught in a deep coma.

We are all in a coma. And that is the core agenda of the Illminati.

That why Tales of the time loop says - the bottom line of the Illminati
agenda is the manipulation of humanity's imagination of itself -
control that and you control the 'physical outcome'

Anyway, that is my understanding of David's best book

[them]

One of my first encounters with Icke was this flyer;

I am now in a position to produce the newsletter connecting together all who come to my meetings, read my books, or simply write to me with their good wishes. This is particularly important now because, I need to be able to communicate information that is being constantly handed down to me and to give everyone on the network a vehicle for getting together with each other. Once we get this off the ground, no-one need feel alone.

Wise words?

To disseminate this knowledge, to make it travel, Icke needed to engineer an actor-network & to produce and maintain links between people, things and different space-times, so that necessary and important steps of preparation and accommodation can be achieved. Something that he is now in a position to do with his shiny new website, and to a lesser degree his non participation in this forum. Once David’s links are in place, lifelong and irreversible coalitions are made, the New Age can be realised, prefigured and seen to be appearing, such that ‘no-one need feel alone'.

My partners Mother was a Green party bigwig in the late 80's, I ended up meeting Icke in a tent in Herefordshire once. Thoroughly nice chap he was too, even in those tracksuit days. I'm grateful to him, now, for his headstrong approach to presenting unpalatable information.

http://www.rick-tomlinson.com/2006%20Cowes%20Week%20web2/image/SCW06-%200265.jpg

[cheeb]

What the heck is that all about ,the truth is meant to clarify things to me this is a very confused way of thinking.
Yes reality is very different for the majority of life on this planet,we as humans only experience it through a very limited spectrum of light ,sound and time
if you imagined it as an atom reality would be very different' time would be nano seconds or infinately smaller[im not sure of the unit of measurement],if you imagined your nucleus as a football placed on the penalty spot at wembly stadium your nearest orbitting electron would be at manchester maine road penalty spot
If you imagined it as a universe'time would be' ill give you another analogy;if you tooa sheet of paper and made it represent a calender year [365days]place it on the floor,place one peice of paper on top of that to represent one year ,by the time youve reached your ankle you would be back to jesus time'when you have reacched the midpoint between ankle and knee you are back to the bronze age ,70,000ft abve your head you are back to the dinosaurs and7 miles above the floor you are back to single celled bacterium on ths planet as the dominant life forcehalfway to the moon would only represent a fraction in cosmological time
Ive given myself a headache.We humans are not special we are a blip, an insignificance in the cosmos get over it

[foreverspirit]

"A decent man will behave decently even if he thinks that he has been treated unjustly or wrongly. But many people in such circumstances show a side of their nature which otherwise they would never show. And at times it is a necessary means for exposing a man’s nature. So long as you are good to a man he is good to you. But what will he be like if you scratch him a little?" - George Gurdjieff


OFF TOPIC, HOWEVER, THIS CAUGHT MY EYE:

WHY SHOULD ANYONE SCRATCH HIM, EVEN A LITTLE? AND WHY SHOULD HE NOT BE INDIGNANT AT WANTING HIS PRECIOUS SELF TO BE TREATED PROPERLY?

(BY THE WAY, NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF YOUR OTHER COMMENTS, I'M JUST CURIOUS - MAYBE THERE IS SOMETHING FOR ME TO LEARN!!)

THANKS.:cool:

[mrguitarbear]

I personally believe everything in this universe is special and nothing is insignificant , no matter how small it is.

3D reality runs into problems when you go to the extremes - what is infinity ? what is the smallest particle ? Things are non-local at both ends.

[cheeb]

If proveablre and testable science has problems for you maybe you should go on to the fairy dust andtooth fairy website this is about trouth wshether you accept it or not

[seanx]

Cheeb,

If proveablre and testable science has problems for you maybe you should go on to the fairy dust andtooth fairy website this is about trouth wshether you accept it or not

Total nonsense.

That's the whole point of the Illminati so- called proveable and
testable science.

All they have to do is to get you to accept this proposition - and
their work is done.

Then you will never stray out of their self-imposed prision.

And you will regard anybody who says something that cannot be
measured or proved by their standards as 'off with the
fariries'

[stikmata]

You know there are few, few things less irritating and rude on a forum than quoting and replying to each individual sentence. It ranks up there with trolling in my opinion. VERY rude.

how bout when someone quotes you and changes your text to "Blah Blah Blah" to avoid adressing your comments?

[neutron flux]

So the truth is, moment-by moment as your beliefs and feelings
shift, you will be shifting in and out of different realites.


Only in a subjective context. Your personal belief won't change the objective reality of we're in a prison run by psychopaths and the world's on fire.

That why TALES of the time loop ends off with the great realization
that it's all a hilarious GAME.


Personally I see the world as a school with everything seen as lessons to learn from and help "build" a soul.

OFF TOPIC, HOWEVER, THIS CAUGHT MY EYE:

WHY SHOULD ANYONE SCRATCH HIM, EVEN A LITTLE? AND WHY SHOULD HE NOT BE INDIGNANT AT WANTING HIS PRECIOUS SELF TO BE TREATED PROPERLY?


Well, "precious self" denotes a level of self-importance for starters, but it must be understood that people wear "masks" or run "programs" that must be stripped away, and sometimes "scratching" them is necessary to expose their true nature. I'll expand further some other time.

The person being "scratched" also has the opportunity to self observe.

[thirdwave]

how bout when someone quotes you and changes your text to "Blah Blah Blah" to avoid adressing your comments?


well to be honest, If someone was banging on at me telling me I am programmed by the very thing I find stimulating, then I would not really pay much attention either....

allow me to dig up that post...

You should take some of your own advice. This is the point, where's your critical thinking?

I'm being critical now, when I choose to, not when someone tell me I should.

You've adopted David Ickes opinion whereby he spoon fed you the information, and this seems to be part of your programming.
.. Now here you have someone telling someone they don't know, that they have been spoon fed info that has programmed them?

I also think David Icke is a Very cool person that has DE programmed thousands of people.... basically what this comment really says is...because I share the same views as David Icke ..hence support his work, I am being mentally drugged by him?? Is this comment coming from anyone who respects the laws of freedom and ones right to have his own views?

it sounds like this guy is saying, because one shares the same views as David, its not because David Ickes work makes sense to many people and people can relate to it, according to this post because the view is not there's ...its no good....

the fact is, what is brainwashing??? everything brainwashes you.... anything you hate, you hate it because somewhere along the way you have been brainwashed to hate it... like wise with something you love....

so of course David Icke brainwashed people to an extent, the issue is neutron flux does not like the data he is putting out where others do.

Even if the reptile thing is not correct, what's the harm is people thinking the elite are lizards??, they act like them, so what's the problem?

To help free minds to adopt a theory as truth when there is a lack of information to show that George Bush etc are aliens

You do not have to believe this theory, no one is putting a gun to your head, its just despite you think there is a lack of information, there is infact quite allot, not just stories in recent time that have even made the internet mainstream news.... but also old Texts that have been burnt by the church, endless links with reptiles in all religions... and to this day a link with the elite to reptiles.... the people who like David's work are convinced and feel there is enough info about them to create allot of wonder about it.

but while you are eager to see info and evidence, why are you not banging on the doors of Airier 51 and asking why that place does not share the same laws as the USA but is still paid with Tax payers cash? ...if you choose to ignore the HUGE historical link with Reptiles in every religion, culture.... then its your choice, but I guess there are others who are much more interested to get to the bottom of it.

Yes, I've read all of David's work except for "Iam me, Iam free". I think you're missing the point: there is insufficient evidence to show that George Bush etc are shape shifters. Psychopaths, yes.

And?? , when has David Icke ever said he has evidence? ..he has simply pointed out that many people speak of this and that HE believes it, and I have personally heard stories nothing to do with David Icke on the same subject... what ever the scenario with it is, it exists... So there is no "official" evidence that Bush is a shape shifter not that Icke has ever announced he thinks he is, I think he thinks he could well be.... but if you do not think there is evidence and its not true, then I don't see anyone banging on your door trying to force you to think its true.... we simply would like to leave the situation open so it can be explored and we would like questions answered. and we are free to have our own judgment on the situation, not because we have been brainwashed but because we choose to except that although after experiencing our years here we feel we have a firm grasp on reality, I don't think most people have, infact I think most have a very little grasp on reality.

Well, I've been into this at least 12 years, not that it's of any relevance.

No it does not matter, there have been a cover up campaign going on for as long as we know... so 12 years in "this" could quite easily be 12 years in the brainwash you seem to be so concerned of.

I go by life experienced and what I see and feel around me... if anything makes sense within that I go with it. if it does not it normally does not sit long with me.

You're assuming that the shape shifting theory is the correct one and will somehow show us the path to intellectual and spiritual freedom.

mmm personally I would assume its real, because I think that there are things in this world that we would find impossible to comprehend and there are also people who rule the world who act like cold blooded lizards.... so even if they don't shape shift and I believe it, im not really in much trouble.

on top of that if you believe something then of course you will assume its real.... are you saying you should not assume something is real that you believe?


"Self-importance is our greatest enemy." - Don Juan

I'm extremely important thank you very much, im the centre of the universe, as are you, and everyone else on this forum, anyone who does not understand this are ill informed IMO.

[neutron flux]

I'm being critical now, when I choose to, not when someone tell me I should.


If you had bothered to read the post above mine it said:

See, the problem with people is that they are unable to think for themselves and unable to apply critical thinking.


So maybe you should address tinmenace first, yes? She's basically saying I'm unable to think for myself and apply critical thinking. Please put things into context instead of trying to demonise me, yes?

.. Now here you have someone telling someone they don't know, that they have been spoon fed info that has programmed them?


Again, IF you'd bothered to read the post before mine you would have read this from tinmenace:

This is why they wait to be spoon fed information. If I spoon feed you the information, I'm enabling your dependency on other people's opinions which you will adopt as your own. All this is part of your programming. I oppose this programming and I won't perpetuate it or enable it. Sorry.



So I addressed her comment.

basically what this comment really says is...because I share the same views as David Icke ..hence support his work, I am being mentally drugged by him?? Is this comment coming from anyone who respects the laws of freedom and ones right to have his own views?


Please go back and read the post preceeding mine so you can stop wasting people's time.

so of course David Icke brainwashed people to an extent, the issue is neutron flux does not like the data he is putting out where others do.


It's not a case of like or dislike, it's examining the data,cross-referencing and building a hypothesis. In this case the whole shape shifting people in power doesn't seem to hold water.

Even if the reptile thing is not correct, what's the harm is people thinking the elite are lizards??, they act like them, so what's the problem?


What harm? They act like psychopaths my friend which is a diagnosable disorder. If you go round saying they're lizards who drink blood then people aren't going to listen to you and switch off. Deal with what we have in front of us.

if you choose to ignore the HUGE historical link with Reptiles in every religion, culture.... then its your choice, but I guess there are others who are much more interested to get to the bottom of it.


Who says I've ignored anything. If you want to get to the bottom of anything then you have to take in all the available evidence and data - just because of a reptile link doesn't mean that our current leaders along with the royal family are shape shifting aliens.

And?? , when has David Icke ever said he has evidence? ..he has simply pointed out that many people speak of this and that HE believes it, and I have personally heard stories nothing to do with David Icke on the same subject... what ever the scenario with it is, it exists...

Well there you go, no evidence other than belief and conjecture.

on top of that if you believe something then of course you will assume its real.... are you saying you should not assume something is real that you believe?


Depends on how you came to the conclusion that formed the belief.

I'm extremely important thank you very much, im the centre of the universe, as are you, and everyone else on this forum, anyone who does not understand this are ill informed IMO.

The full quote is: "Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it - what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellowmen. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone."

Thirdwave do you think you could read other peoples posts before you rip into mine, as it seems to make you look rather foolish. :rolleyes:

[seanx]

Personally I see the world as a school with everything seen as lessons to learn from and help "build" a soul.

With respect- and I know most people believe this - but this idea
is probably the most insidious of all Matrix ideas - the belief
that we have 'lessons to learn ..and must 'build' a soul.

This idea could keep you locked in an unending circle forerver.

To build a soul implies that there is something wrong with you that
must be 'fixed' before you are good enough to 'be'.

You're trying to 'fix', 'improve' this soul - this separate self -
but if this separate self or soul is not a real and substantial reality
- then you're caught fixing to fix an illusion - and that could take
forever.

As Chinese Tao says...

Why are you so unhappy?
Because 99.9% of everything you think,
And everything you do,
Is for yourself,
And there isn't one?

We have no lessons to learn, no tests to prove or no 'person' to
become.

We 're here to BE -to FEEL - AND to EXPERIENCE. To ENJOY

But we get caught in all these matrix religions or distorted new age
ideas - and we keep PUTTING OFF the day when we will just 'be' or
allow yourself to experience life - but not until we have
become a certain person'.

Then, one day we wake up - and our life is nearly over .. and we're still planning, ...still waiting.

The 'Matrix' operates on all these levels, especially religions and the
distortion of new age ideas.

But if we are awake, we can easily leave it all behind.

That why TALES of the time loop ends off with the great realization
that it's all a hilarious GAME.

[neutron flux]

With respect- and I know most people believe this - but this idea
is probably the most insidious of all Matrix ideas - the belief
that we have 'lessons to learn ..and must 'build' a soul.

This idea could keep you locked in an unending circle forerver.

To build a soul implies that there is something wrong with you that
must be 'fixed' before you are good enough to 'be'.

You're trying to 'fix', 'improve' this soul - this separate self -
but if this separate self or soul is not a real and substantial reality
- then you're caught fixing to fix an illusion - and that could take
forever.


I understand what you're saying but I didn't say there was anything "wrong" or needed to be "fixed". Are you saying you haven't learnt anything from the sum total of your existence thus far? It seems that knowledge coupled with experience creates awareness which in turn are lessons, which IMHO adds to creating a soul.

Who says everyone is born with a soul? It seems there are many that seem quite souless.

We 're here to BE -to FEEL - AND to EXPERIENCE. To ENJOY

Learning is fun, yes?

But we get caught in all these matrix religions or distorted new age
ideas - and we keep PUTTING OFF the day when we will just 'be' or
allow yourself to experience life - but not until we have
become a certain person'.


It's not a religion or a new age idea but a very ancient one - and it's not about putting off anything - it's about doing - it's about self observation - self remembering - and many other factors that you can do now.

Then, one day we wake up - and our life is nearly over .. and we're still planning, ...still waiting.


We're constantly learning, yes? I'm not waiting for anything.

But if we are awake, we can easily leave it all behind.

That why TALES of the time loop ends off with the great realization
that it's all a hilarious GAME.

Depends how you define "awake". To see life as a game implies "winners" and "losers", so how do you define a "winner" from a "loser"? I think it's more productive to step off the chess board.

Or so I think. :)

[thirdwave]

If you had bothered to read the post above mine it said:



So maybe you should address tinmenace first, yes? She's basically saying I'm unable to think for myself and apply critical thinking. Please put things into context instead of trying to demonise me, yes?



Again, IF you'd bothered to read the post before mine you would have read this from tinmenace:



So I addressed her comment.



Please go back and read the post preceeding mine so you can stop wasting people's time.



It's not a case of like or dislike, it's examining the data,cross-referencing and building a hypothesis. In this case the whole shape shifting people in power doesn't seem to hold water.



What harm? They act like psychopaths my friend which is a diagnosable disorder. If you go round saying they're lizards who drink blood then people aren't going to listen to you and switch off. Deal with what we have in front of us.



Who says I've ignored anything. If you want to get to the bottom of anything then you have to take in all the available evidence and data - just because of a reptile link doesn't mean that our current leaders along with the royal family are shape shifting aliens.



Well there you go, no evidence other than belief and conjecture.



Depends on how you came to the conclusion that formed the belief.



The full quote is: "Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it - what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellowmen. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone."

Thirdwave do you think you could read other peoples posts before you rip into mine, as it seems to make you look rather foolish. :rolleyes:

I stated my reasons for my post at the start of it, the post was actually flagged by a member which drew it to my attention........ it was because someone was upset at it not being answered.... so i answer it and I get the treatment from you!! .... the conclusion.... now we know why tinmenace did not bother!


You are the one who feels David Icke must be questioned and that he is wrong, and we are making mistakes by relating to his views....... we are the ones who think he is right, we dont feel the need to convince you, just want the right to tell you about it so you can make your mind up.... so why is it we are the ones that have to come up with the answers for you?

tinmenace expressed her views because you expressed yours on her.. you express yours again, I reply to them with mine and you tell me I should question hers again.?....

Her views where in a different context to yours, like I say, she was defending her views.... and you where questioning them.



"If my answers scare you, then ceace asking scary questions"


The full quote is: "Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it - what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellowmen. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone."


*thinking about it*
eerrr I totally don't agree

Self important is confidence, positive energy and having a stimulating look inside your self...expecting the opportunities you want...and feeling that you belong and are worthy.

what you are talking about is not self important...its more of a twisted view on it IMO, you are talking about fragile egos... and people who actually don't feel worthy of importance or they would not need to feed off of the views of others let alone become so offended by them....

[cheeb]

Cheeb,



Total nonsense.

That's the whole point of the Illminati so- called proveable and
testable science.

All they have to do is to get you to accept this proposition - and
their work is done.

Then you will never stray out of their self-imposed prision.

And you will regard anybody who says something that cannot be
measured or proved by their standards as 'off with the
fariries'

IM talking about truth here,no one has got me to beleive anything or accept anything without researching and finding the facts surely it would be more beneficial for the illuminati to keep us in ignorance.The more people that search for truth the greater our understanding will become and this illuminati/nwo scam will be revealed.This search for truth has already uncovered the events of 911,the coming war with iran,the fake moon landings,the orwellian society that we are becoming,operation northwoods etc.....Truth sets us free Ignorance enslaves/imprison us please break free from this illuminati construct that ignorance is bliss and bathe yourself in the warm light of truth that knowledge is Power.

[neutron flux]

I stated my reasons for my post at the start of it, the post was actually flagged by a member which drew it to my attention........ it was because someone was upset at it not being answered....

As far as I know I've answered everyone who posed a question at me, it was tinmenace who decided to quote me as saying "blah,blah,blah", that's not exactly answering my questions, is it? It was another poster who stated that I was "VERY rude" for answering each individual point, but sometimes it is necessary to break down the post into chunks in order to answer it properly. But of course changing my comments to "blah,blah,blah" is deemed perfectly acceptable and not in the least bit rude. :rolleyes:

so i answer it and I get the treatment from you!! .... the conclusion.... now we know why tinmenace did not bother!



No, you barked at my responses to tinmenace. If tinmenace can't answer my questions then she should just leave it at that rather than to quote me as saying: "blah,blah,blah".

You are the one who feels David Icke must be questioned

I feel everyone in this field of work should be questioned as it's a mine field out there. You don't?

we are the ones who think he is right, we dont feel the need to convince you, just want the right to tell you about it so you can make your mind up.... so why is it we are the ones that have to come up with the answers for you?


Well just to think someone is right doesn't make them right, does it? There are many people who think that the war on terror is "right" and of course the mainstream media paints the picture that there are terrorists under your bed just ready to blow you up. Are those people who fall for that critically thinking?
If there is inadequate data to show that the Queen etc are shape shifters, then why should I take it as truth? You don't have to give me any answers because I do my own research.

tinmenace expressed her views because you expressed yours on her.. you express yours again, I reply to them with mine and you tell me I should question hers again.?....


Well because the responses you gave should have been aimed at her as she was the one who brought most of it up saying such things as:

See, the problem with people is that they are unable to think for themselves and unable to apply critical thinking.

This is why they wait to be spoon fed information. If I spoon feed you the information, I'm enabling your dependency on other people's opinions which you will adopt as your own. All this is part of your programming. I oppose this programming and I won't perpetuate it or enable it. Sorry.



See?


Self important is confidence, positive energy and having a stimulating look inside your self...expecting the opportunities you want...and feeling that you belong and are worthy.


You can be confident, positive etc without having self importance.

what you are talking about is not self important...its more of a twisted view on it IMO, you are talking about fragile egos... and people who actually don't feel worthy of importance or they would not need to feed off of the views of others let alone become so offended by them....

No, because losing self importance is about losing the ego, and the quote is from Carlos Castaneda - you might want to pick up a book of his at some point. :)

[gremlin]

david icke is cool!! think about it, bbc presenter to this mammoth strong man,
exposing the illuminati and there sick plans to control people.

what a guy;) :D

[sidlittle]

i admire ickes willingness to express his views often in the face of ridicule irrespective of whether or not his beliefs are correct.

(a simple, effective and non-controversial first post)
:cool:

[tinmenace]

i admire ickes willingness to express his views often in the face of ridicule irrespective of whether or not his beliefs are correct.

(a simple, effective and non-controversial first post)
:cool:

Agreed. In my opinion David Icke is 100% lucid and coherent. There are some people that totally get what he's saying (mostly people that have read his books) and then of course there are others that disagree, which they're entitled to.

The difference between the two is that the people that agree with David, don't try to ram the info down other people's throats, and they usually don't question others, ad nauseam, about why they believe what they believe, unless the info was offered in advance as an argument to David's books. From what I've seen, they understand that it's a personal choice which everyone is entitled to.

On the other hand we have people that just can't accept that you have your own thoughts and beliefs, which happen to fall in line with David's beliefs, and that it brings you peace and happiness and that you're not susceptible to indoctrination because you've walked away from that prison.

It would be interesting if people would spend more energy on finding their own perspective on truth. It's a personal choice, and it's different for each one of us. :)

[cheeb]

people spend too much energy on their own versions of the truth it is supposed to be universal not personal.investmentment suggest youll get a return what do you want from the cosmos the dillusion of being happy .you can buy that at a chemist its called prozac dont expect to get happy from the truth it often has the opposite effect makes you question every thing

[tinmenace]

people spend too much energy on their own versions of the truth it is supposed to be universal not personal.investmentment suggest youll get a return what do you want from the cosmos the dillusion of being happy .you can buy that at a chemist its called prozac dont expect to get happy from the truth it often has the opposite effect makes you question every thing

And that's your perspective on the truth to which you're entitled. Everyone's awakening process is a personal one. A poor laborer in Cambodia is going to have a different awakening experience to a privileged kid living in a penthouse in NYC. Their paths are different, therefor exclusive to them. Their very own version... ;)

[cheeb]

Im a poor labourer working in the forest of dean at a tree nursury i am a complete luddite with a computor apart from this i have no posessions apart from a car

[tinmenace]

This was a choice you made to live like this?

[cheeb]

yes i am very aware of this i love working with nature and being at one with the earth but just because i get my hands dirty doesnt mean i cant think aswell

[tinmenace]

I didn't imply that, which makes me wonder about your statement.

[cheeb]

don't worry about it the last thing i come on here for was to get personal about my life it always sounds like you are getting into a poor me game [if youve read the celestine prophecies youll know what im on about]

[tinmenace]

Oki Doki Cheeb. Be happy dude...cya later.

[neutron flux]

people spend too much energy on their own versions of the truth it is supposed to be universal not personal.investmentment suggest youll get a return what do you want from the cosmos the dillusion of being happy .you can buy that at a chemist its called prozac dont expect to get happy from the truth it often has the opposite effect makes you question every thing

Exactly, if one is searching for the truth then there is only one version of it - it's not a personal thing as that is viewing the world in a subjective manner - being objective is the key. And looking at the world in an objective manner one gets the sense of horror as the world is burning at an unprecedented rate.

[cheeb]

well the world could be a nightmare or a daydream it all depends which end of the telescope you are looking through.eg half empty or half full

[thirdwave]

I feel everyone in this field of work should be questioned as it's a mine field out there. You don't?



Why?

if you fall in love do you question it? ...if you dislike someone do you question it?

you only question something if you have doubt .... if there is no doubt and you see something with clarity.... then there is not a question available to be asked.... like I say I don't ask Icke questions because i don't have any.... its you who does... and that's fare enough.... but why should I? or anyone else who does not feel the need for a question?

how much do you really know??? ...how do you know Icke is not a huge disinfo agent that is accidentally doing a bad job and waking people up and due to many peoples perception they can feel this?

you don't. (that was just an example by the way)



Well just to think someone is right doesn't make them right, does it?

what is right? ...can you send me a link to the book?

if you think someone is right it means you are getting something that is right from it. ....at the end of the day if you don't already have an understanding of what is right within you then you need to go back to the drawing Board anyway.....

why are you so concerned that people belive in shape shifters... if a drunk man stumbled over to you and said your nose is made of cheese, would you get into a row with him about it?.... no, you would laugh at him and walk off.... the mere fact that you are arguing about the reptile thing clearly shows that that is some kind of battle within you regarding the subject... you clearly do feel it is a reality or you would not be so eager to discredit it.

if the thought if reptile shapeshifters does not sit well with you, then don't think about it.... don't focus your energies upon it..... you should only focus your self on things that inspires you.... maybe we are an odd lot who seem to get off on strange things.... but that's what makes the world free and yes... FUN!




There are many people who think that the war on terror is "right" and of course the mainstream media paints the picture that there are terrorists under your bed just ready to blow you up. Are those people who fall for that critically thinking?

I don't agree, I think the people who truly think the war on terror is right are people like Bush who are fully supportive of its agenda.... and in that frame of mind.... if you think their agenda is correct then yes... the war on terror is right... but most average people who says its right... I don't buy for a second they think it is...and you can see this clearly by looking in their eye as they speak..... you can look into my eyes any time you like and I will tell you exactly what I think is right.

If there is inadequate data to show that the Queen etc are shape shifters, then why should I take it as truth? You don't have to give me any answers because I do my own research.


Ok for a start no one has directly stated that the royal family are shapshifters as a Fact, this is dis info on your part....... Davids work points towards the possibility of them being so due to his beliefs that the elite are controlled buy a reptilian blood line and many has seen them shapeshift, his views being that he thinks the R Family are some of them...

If you require evidence to take it as being realistic and you don't feel there is enough, then my advice to you is not not believe it. However... I and many others feel they have seen enough evidence needed for my beliefs system to feel satisfied... so there for I am indulging my self into that belief. if this has an effect on you, then you can only take our advice and views on this as its you who requires our explanations.




You can be confident, positive etc without having self importance.

why do you not want to see your self as important?... I am.



No, because losing self importance is about losing the ego

you do not want to lose the ego.... you just do not want to let the ego control you.

, and the quote is from Carlos Castaneda - you might want to pick up a book of his at some point. :)


our ego is very important, just so long as we know how to deal with it.



I dont care if the book is from Obi Wan Kenobi, who ever it is , is not a God and has smelly poo like the rest of us.

you see, .... so many views.... out looks.... its endless..... how can we all possibly have the same script??? you can fight for this script as long as you like but you will drive your self mad....

take what you like and move on.... don't worry about others.... throw them a bone and let them sniff it and decide of they want it.....while you are off doing something else.

[jimijams]

"If You Meet the David Icke on the Road, Kill Him!";)

Amazon.com: If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him! The Pilgrimage of Psychotherapy Patients (9780553278323): Sheldon B. Kopp: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51j4B7eTvDL.@@AMEPARAM@@51j4B7eTvDL

[r e m]

David Icke is a great researcher/truth seeker, & in my opinion spot on with most of his theories. I just find it difficult to make that leap into believing that the world elite themselves are the shapeshifting reptilians, on whatever frequency. Whats important is that David has opened all new ways of thinking, & has truly helped in my search for truth.

There seems to be staggering amounts of evidence these reptilian entities exist, & have a definite connection with the world elite/secret societies. I tend to think 'they' would never allow themselves to be reviled to the public eye, & we're probably still dealing with the middle-men puppets.


What do you guys reckon about that the Brandon Corey story? I get the distinct impression it's a very elaborate hoax, although there were some bizarre occurrences. Still It wouldn't surprise me if it is debunk!.

[seanx]

To cheeb, neutron flux and their fellow travelers,


It's great to have you guys on this forum.

But....It's obviously you don't have the slighest resonance
with david icke's ideas as they have now developed and expressed in his
latest books.

IN fact, I would bet you have not even read his last two books.

i don't want to sound pissed off - but I want people to argue about
david's conclusions, especially his insights under the drug he took, on this thread.

i don't want to waste time with people who want to put a NLP
Interpreation on his ideas. i.e reality doesn't change ..only
your rersponse to it.

That is true..at the matrix level ..but most people on this thread have
gone beyond that level ...and want to know how they can affect real
change in the world.

[john white]

Im a poor labourer working in the forest of dean at a tree nursury i am a complete luddite with a computor apart from this i have no posessions apart from a car

Sorry to hear your burdened with a car! Other than that, you sound a wealthy man to me, spending your days with the trees :)

[lottie]

i find it quite funny that so many people believe in aliens and ufo's but won't accept the idea that there could be shapeshifting reptillians in the world!! im not saying its true or that i believe it but imo- the fact that nrly all david ickes work resonates so well with me that i can actually get my head around the reptillian theory- it does make sense to me!! i mean- i consider myself to be an 'open -minded' individual- a lot say the same but then there will be a point that they will close their mind- i am open-minded 100% and open my mind to ALL possibility- this means that i have to be open to the fact that there may well be shapeshifting reptillians in the world!! :D

[neutron flux]

I feel everyone in this field of work should be questioned as it's a mine field out there. You don't?

Why?

if you fall in love do you question it? ...if you dislike someone do you question it?


That's an emotional response to something when we're talking about facts and truth. Yes, you should question everything as there are psy-ops and counter-intelligence operations going on in this field of work and who knows what the consequences will be if you're digesting false knowledge - especially if the changes in reality hypothesis circa 2012ish come into play.

you only question something if you have doubt .... if there is no doubt and you see something with clarity.... then there is not a question available to be asked.... like I say I don't ask Icke questions because i don't have any.... its you who does... and that's fare enough.... but why should I? or anyone else who does not feel the need for a question?


Then enjoy your box. :)

how much do you really know??? ...how do you know Icke is not a huge disinfo agent that is accidentally doing a bad job and waking people up and due to many peoples perception they can feel this?


I don't know that Icke is a disinfo agent (hence the critical thinking) but I'm willing to bet some of the people he has interviewed are i.e Arizona Wilder.;)

why are you so concerned that people belive in shape shifters... if a drunk man stumbled over to you and said your nose is made of cheese, would you get into a row with him about it?.... no, you would laugh at him and walk off.... the mere fact that you are arguing about the reptile thing clearly shows that that is some kind of battle within you regarding the subject... you clearly do feel it is a reality or you would not be so eager to discredit it.


Hey, if people want to believe and not question then so be it.

why do you not want to see your self as important?... I am.



Don't get it twisted, you just sound arrogant.:rolleyes:

[thirdwave]

Yes, you should question everything as there are psy-ops and counter-intelligence operations going on in this field of work and who knows what the consequences will be if you're digesting false knowledge - especially if the changes in reality hypothesis circa 2012ish come into play.



but why do you not think that intuition and ones own judgment counts?.. you come across as a very mechanical type of person who can only think stuff as real from what you can reach out and fine.... if one does not have any questions...then why should I ask questions you need answering?

I believe there are shapshifters.... its just people have seen to many Hollywood movies and are so spiritually un evolved they just cant believe it even if they try... and the nature of the way they shape shift is something they do not even understand either... there was a time in my life I was very doubtful of it... but as time has gone buy and I have seen and learnt more.... and checked out more of David's work.... I feel no need for more questions on the matter... the only reason you need questions is because you obviously have a need to know its not true.... so you will keep asking questions until you feel you have found a good spot that totally assures you that they are not real... but you have obviously not had any luck yet.


Then enjoy your box. :)
well its not a box to me.... its the universe.... remember what "question" means, and its you who require lots of them.... in other words you are waiting for the info of others to secure your outlook.... and you say I'm in a box?

I don't know that Icke is a disinfo agent (hence the critical thinking) but I'm willing to bet some of the people he has interviewed are i.e Arizona Wilder.;)

I don't think he is one little bit... but my point is sometimes you don't get the right answers you like or the right situations... but where is the rule book.... how do people know that these "disinfo agents" are actually doing a good job? ...they might be making it all worse for them self's... might not be working how they would have liked.... there are more questions for you...

as for Arizona Wilder, David Icke interviewed her.... no more. maybe she is CIA.... maybe she is a victim of the CIA's brainwashing to spread disinfo.... or maybe she is the real deal.....

for me... I believe that people have entered a state where they have seen the images of people alter and appear like a reptilian type image.... due to their state and outlook seeing differently.... so it does not matter if Wilder is lying to me.... or David Icke I would imagine... infact if she is lying and is CIA then it only holds it up even more...


Hey, if people want to believe and not question then so be it.

Yes, if people trust them self's, let them get on with it...


Don't get it twisted, you just sound arrogant.:rolleyes:

I have already explained I think there is a difference between being arrogant and self important.... you talk about outside people upsetting you because of self importance...

does this mean you are self important because you don't like my "arrogance" here?.... no its your ego has come into the picture..

im not at all arrogant... I don't think im better than you or others here, I just think im very important, if others don't feel they are important then its them who have the illusion of me being arrogant.. because they choose to see them self as not important....

I think I am a very important living being.... if you don't think the same about your self, I have no control of that but I also will not allow that to have control of me.

being self important does not mean selfish..... or arrogant... this is just how people have been conditioned to see it.... especially in many religions... Jesus is important and us pesky humans are not worthy of him.

if you have no self importance, then guess what... your not a very important person,,, just another grain of sand on the shovel.

note David Ickes little story about how humans today keep each other in the pen..... well this is like that.... some stands up shouting... im somebody!! im important!

Sit down mate!, your arrogant!...

this is it is sadly....

I like the way David Icke manages to point the simple things out....

[neutron flux]

but why do you not think that intuition and ones own judgment counts?

Intuition and one's own judgement (without the appropriate data) have no place in getting to facts of the shape shifting matter, do they?

you come across as a very mechanical type of person who can only think stuff as real from what you can reach out and fine....

That's a judgement call based on the limited data that I have posted here and not in the least bit true.

I believe there are shapshifters.... its just people have seen to many Hollywood movies and are so spiritually un evolved they just cant believe it even if they try... and the nature of the way they shape shift is something they do not even understand either...

Just because you believe in something where there is nothing but belief and conjecture mixed with anecdotal evidence - that makes me spiritually unevolved? Please explain the nature of the way they shape shift then seeing you're now an expert and soooo evolved. :rolleyes:

the only reason you need questions is because you obviously have a need to know its not true.... so you will keep asking questions until you feel you have found a good spot that totally assures you that they are not real... but you have obviously not had any luck yet.



No, the very need to ask questions and gather more data is to know whether something is true or not - you've made your mind up it's true with very little facts, if any. The data shows that the politicians etc (or at least the people who have been named) are in fact psychopaths and not aliens.

well its not a box to me.... its the universe.... remember what "question" means, and its you who require lots of them.... in other words you are waiting for the info of others to secure your outlook.... and you say I'm in a box?


Okay, I'll put it another way and quote David Icke: "You've pitched your tent."

I don't think he is one little bit... but my point is sometimes you don't get the right answers you like or the right situations..

I'm not looking for answers I like or dislike, I'm looking for the truth.

as for Arizona Wilder, David Icke interviewed her.... no more. maybe she is CIA.... maybe she is a victim of the CIA's brainwashing to spread disinfo.... or maybe she is the real deal.....


Yeah, David interviewed her and her "evidence" is a big part of the elite being shape shifting aliens hypothesis. She's Cointelpro - take that to the bank.

so it does not matter if Wilder is lying to me.... or David Icke I would imagine... infact if she is lying and is CIA then it only holds it up even more...



So it matters not if someone is feeding you lies you'll still believe it to be true.:confused:


I have already explained I think there is a difference between being arrogant and self important.... you talk about outside people upsetting you because of self importance...



I didn't say anything about outside(?) people upsetting me because of self importance - are you drunk? Because you just seem to make things up, put words in my mouth or come out with such illogical nonsense it really boggles my mind.

does this mean you are self important because you don't like my "arrogance" here?.... no its your ego has come into the picture..


I didn't say you were arrogant, I said it makes you sound arrogant - that has nothing to do with my so-called ego, does it?

im not at all arrogant... I don't think im better than you or others here, I just think im very important

ROFL! Okay conceited then! Okay, so it seems you're not getting the point - and I don't think it should be discussed in this thread as it's not relevant - I'll save it for another thread.

[father ted]

What I really like about Icke is that he says the opposite of what "they" say.

You read David's work. tick. You make up your own mind about his info. tick. You do your own research. tick. How many people actually bother to follow up on his resources and look up and research on some of the things that he mentioned, BEFORE you make up your own fucking mind about his info, and as you do your own fucking research?

Seriously, it's good to have people on board, but allow me to rant; some of the posts in this forum suggest that people haven't bothered to look up his resources and write things that should have been looked into first. It's like they judge some of his ideas before they read his material and then they make up their own mind about things. And then there's the ones who are trying to be "correct" all the time and deliberately misinterpret/misunderstand david's work and others' posts.

Icke don't fuck around. If he finds info that needs to get out, he'll bring it out, of course he's not the only one. It doesn't seem to matter what it is, shapeshifting, aliens, reptiles, atlantis, your favorite celebrity/role model being a pedophile or part of the illuminati-boo hoo, etc. Many others are too chicken shit that their reputation will be damaged:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[i_am]

How many people actually bother to follow up on his resources and look up and research on some of the things that he mentioned, BEFORE you make up your own fucking mind about his info, and as you do your own fucking research?

Seriously, it's good to have people on board, but allow me to rant; some of the posts in this forum suggest that people haven't bothered to look up his resources and write things that should have been looked into first. It's like they judge some of his ideas before they read his material and then they make up their own mind about things. :)

Agreed ted :p

You see I have no problem with what Icke says about anything. There are one or two things that I have come to a different conclusion about but that is OK. One day one of us will come across some information that swings us the other way. It is evolution.

As for most of it (including the reptile part), I had already researched extensively and come to my own conclusions long before I had heard of David Icke. When someone brought 'The Biggest Secret to a group we belonged to, I resisted reading it as I had already come across all of the information it contained. I eventually gave in and read it. I am glad I did because it tied all of the information together, made all of the pieces I already had make sense.

The information is out there from many sources. What you make of it is up to you. You will not get conclusive evidence to most things because this information has been suppressed. You have to go with your gut feeling (knowing).

[cheeb]

I wasn't saying that alien shape shifting reptiles/amphibians/crustateons. don't exist they may well do.
I was merely putting it to you that there was a lack of evidence to proove it.
If you could conclusively show me this evidence i will be happy to beleive,but it has to be real nuts and bolts evidence not speculation, hearsay or rumour.
If this information has been suppressed how did you find out about it .
Go on my freind be a dear and show us the facts what have you got to lose

[john white]

Agreed ted :p

You see I have no problem with what Icke says about anything. There are one or two things that I have come to a different conclusion about but that is OK. One day one of us will come across some information that swings us the other way. It is evolution.

As for most of it (including the reptile part), I had already researched extensively and come to my own conclusions long before I had heard of David Icke. When someone brought 'The Biggest Secret to a group we belonged to, I resisted reading it as I had already come across all of the information it contained. I eventually gave in and read it. I am glad I did because it tied all of the information together, made all of the pieces I already had make sense.

The information is out there from many sources. What you make of it is up to you. You will not get conclusive evidence to most things because this information has been suppressed. You have to go with your gut feeling (knowing).

In my experiance, a large partof what gives people problems with information like Icke's is an inability to develop what icke calls "the back burner"

That is to say, simpy taking in info as maybe true, maybe not true and letting it just sit in the back of the mind without needing to make judgments or form an opinion about it

Over time, one can then approach the infomation at a leisurely pace and start to attach weight or dimiss it on the basis of how often similar themes come up as one travels through life. Its the patterns (of energy) which are truly important, not the mental labels attached to them. Eventually, one may even feel justified in considering something as certain

But rush judgments based on defending the integrity of what may be egoic illusion rarley serve the cause of the true seeker: the cause of freedom

[cheeb]

What ? I suppose you just got back from the pub aswell, bar room philosophy v's well thought out reasoned argument youre my best mate you are

[i_am]

I wasn't saying that alien shape shifting reptiles/amphibians/crustateons. don't exist they may well do.
I was merely putting it to you that there was a lack of evidence to proove it.
If you could conclusively show me this evidence i will be happy to beleive,but it has to be real nuts and bolts evidence not speculation, hearsay or rumour.
If this information has been suppressed how did you find out about it .
Go on my freind be a dear and show us the facts what have you got to lose


It would be really good if you would give some indication as to whom you are addressing.

I am assuming this is addressed to me?

Nope!! I have nothing to lose nor do I have anything to gain from continuing this dialogue. You need proof, that's fine. That is your trip.

[lottie]

i think the above was meant for me as i was the one posting about belief of aliens ufo's etc!! but someone's getting a little tetchy and attacking me very quickly when in actual fact- my opinion was not directed at anyone in particular- it was about expressing my opinion- not trying to get anyone to believe what i say, i was merely stating my point- i do not need to show anyone proof of shapeshifting reptilians- i have never seen one but i believe anyway- some of us can do that- some need in your face proof- i dont- im quite happy just to believe it- i have my reasons- but thats my business! if you dont believe in them- its not my job to convince you otherwise! go research it for yourself- its your journey- this is my reality and thats what i choose to believe- no skin off my nose if you dont believe it......

[cheeb]

I was adressing all of the beleivers,the ones thst have found their comfort zones and have set up their stalls.
To me this is the one thing that can make David Icke lose credibality
Ive seen him in interviews talking about 911 and royal bloodlines etc ,the interviewer will turn it back to alien reptile shapeshifters and it will muddy the waters and stop the truth getting out there.
I also beleive that because of his inclusion of the "protocols of the elders of zion"(a fake document, but full of truths) some groups_the far right and the ADL in america, took it upon themselves that reptillian shapeshifters was a euphanism for jews. Thus giving them more ammunition to discredit him and suppress him from speaking in many places in America
I beleive that the truth of 911'the coming war with iran, the increasing orwellian landscape we are stumbling into needs to be put out there and VERY VERY quickly.
THe shapeshifting thing is a distraction,a sideshow.We need to hurry up and expose the NWO QUICKLY before that jackboot will be stamping on our faces forever.

[thirdwave]

Intuition and one's own judgement (without the appropriate data) have no place in getting to facts of the shape shifting matter, do they?


Well some people can even read the future without Facts to prove it... and tell someones past..... so its not out of this world if someone can come to a conclusion from a mixture of information and their intuition and judgment... Your simply trying to tell me that my intuition and judgment is wrong, with of course not an aounce of evidence to back your claim up.



That's a judgement call based on the limited data that I have posted here and not in the least bit true. Yes, its how you appear on this thread because you don't seem to be able to have judgment without something else providing you with it..... its not like the link with the reptilian images and symbols over the years has ever been explained and reviled... its not as if all the many many religions have explained the link with reptiles within them.... and its not as if the many African tribes... hoppie Indians.... Mayans.... and many other old civilisations have had there stories of reptilian beings properly looked into.... so some just seem happy to have no judgment on all this other than wait until you are provided with the info you need to make a judgment... The Fact that many people claim to see shapshifting go on could well be enough evidence for some, but its just not enough for you.


Just because you believe in something where there is nothing but belief and conjecture mixed with anecdotal evidence - that makes me spiritually unevolved? Please explain the nature of the way they shape shift then seeing you're now an expert and soooo evolved. :rolleyes:

Well this is it, I think there is evidence to at least make these claims have a lot of weight to them.... for example.... if all these people think they are seeing this, then that in its self is interesting... maybe they are just "seeing things" or they are having some kind of odd reaction to something... but why is it ignored? ... it is still a phenomena that should be addressed what ever it is... you keep repeating their is no evidence.... there is evidence that shows the powers of the world have a link to the reptilian thing and more evidence that shows over the years man has told stories of a reptilian race.... add that with people all over the world telling stories of seeing shapshifting, including 2 of my friends.... then I would say there is a bit of evidence.... enough for the situation to be addressed. regarding the not being spiritually evolved.... you tell me.... can you understand how something you are looking at call all of a sudden not look the same?.... do you understand that our faces are not even solid anyway?.... most people do not ... and cant even comprehend this and yes and very spiritually un evolved.... as David Icke puts it... by design.


No, the very need to ask questions and gather more data is to know whether something is true or not
- you've made your mind up it's true with very little facts, if any. The data shows that the politicians etc (or at least the people who have been named) are in fact psychopaths and not aliens.

But you ignore the answers and just ask more questions, what it all comes down to is you wont believe it unless you see it with your eyes.... which maybe you never will, what is a "Fact" in your eyes?.... when someone says they have seen it or when you have? when a whole civilisation says they have seen it? or when you have seen it....? because if you have not seen it and someone else has than you simply say that person is lying.... so what "Facts" are you asking for?

I am convinced that the people running the world are dictated by a blood line of reptilian type humans who see them self's as a different spices to us and see us as total inferiors to them... and I also believe that many people have seen some of these people..... (also regular people) shape shift and all of a sudden appear in a different form... mostly reptililian looking....... I do not claim to know the whole detailed story.. but I am convinced to a certain degree, based on the info and evidence I have come across, and my judgment.



Okay, I'll put it another way and quote David Icke: "You've pitched your tent."

and you have not?

I'm not looking for answers I like or dislike, I'm looking for the truth.

How do you know its not the truth?.... like I say... If I told you I have seen a shapeshift would that be truth to you? ...no. you don't believe it to be real so you are looking for ways of expressing that.... if you generally did not think they were real then you could brush it off by simply saying "I will believe it if I see it" because that's the only way you will... and I think even many who have seen it would not tell anyone and would even convince them self's they did not see it.....

you seem to be also focused on telling me that I should not believe it.... how is that looking for truth? what evidence do you have that my intuition and judgment based on the information I have taken in on the matter are not %100 correct.?


Yeah, David interviewed her and her "evidence" is a big part of the elite being shape shifting aliens hypothesis. She's Cointelpro - take that to the bank.

this is not true.... He interviewed her because of the info he had already picked up.... that is WHY he interviewed her and supposedly why she came to him and spoke...

I admit there is something about her I do not quite like.... I personally think she has been brainwashed by the CIA or who ever.. to go to David and tell the story in as much of an OTT way as possible so the people who want to debunk the shapeshifting theory like your self... can bring her up and make it sound as crazy as possible.... I think the many many other people who have seen shapshifting... including 2 of my friends.. will explain it in a more understandable way... to the open minded of course...

but then again... who knows.... we also have no evidence she is a liar.



So it matters not if someone is feeding you lies you'll still believe it to be true.:confused:

no you have miss understood me.... It does not matter if AW is lying or if anyone else lies, as I already believe it to be true... not all have lied.... and I am not a victim to disinfo merchants who look to confuse and water down info.... I also believe that many people pushing disinfo are not really doing a good job..

I didn't say anything about outside(?) people upsetting me because of self importance - are you drunk? Because you just seem to make things up, put words in my mouth or come out with such illogical nonsense it really boggles my mind.

I was refuring to this comment a couple pages back...
"The full quote is: "Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it - what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellowmen. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone."

allow me to change my comments so you are less boggled...

I have already explained I think there is a difference between being arrogant and self important.... you talk about OUR FELLOWMEN upsetting you because of self importance...

there you go, no more need to be boggled!!


I didn't say you were arrogant, I said it makes you sound arrogant - that has nothing to do with my so-called ego, does it?

ahhh my apologies... allow me to amend my comments...

"does this mean you are self important because you don't like HOW I SOUND ARROGANT here?.... no its your ego has come into the picture.."


ROFL! Okay conceited then! Okay, so it seems you're not getting the point - and I don't think it should be discussed in this thread as it's not relevant - I'll save it for another thread.

lol oki dokie.... but I still think im important.

[neutron flux]

Well some people can even read the future without Facts to prove it... and tell someones past..... so its not out of this world if someone can come to a conclusion from a mixture of information and their intuition and judgment...

I'm not talking about clairvoyant abilities here and it was in relation to the facts of shape shifting - no Derek Acorah needed.
And yes, people can read a possible future and tell someones past but the proof is in the pudding i.e. you have facts to show whether that person was correct or not.

Yes, its how you appear on this thread because you don't seem to be able to have judgment without something else providing you with it....
You mean like those pesky things called fact based evidence. Yeah, funny how that works, init?

its not like the link with the reptilian images and symbols over the years has ever been explained and reviled... its not as if all the many many religions have explained the link with reptiles within them.... and its not as if the many African tribes... hoppie Indians.... Mayans.... and many other old civilisations have had there stories of reptilian beings properly looked into.... so some just seem happy to have no judgment on all this other than wait until you are provided with the info you need to make a judgment...

Well for starters the reptile imagery could stem from the natives seeing reptilians in an altered state i.e. hallucinations from ingesting certain plants. It doesn't mean that the natives were shape shifters. And yes, I do tend to wait until I'm provided with the info to make a judgement hence my stance on this particular matter.

it is still a phenomena that should be addressed what ever it is... you keep repeating their is no evidence.... there is evidence that shows the powers of the world have a link to the reptilian thing and more evidence that shows over the years man has told stories of a reptilian race.... add that with people all over the world telling stories of seeing shapshifting, including 2 of my friends.... then I would say there is a bit of evidence.... enough for the situation to be addressed.

I keep repeating lack of evidence - mostly anecdotal. Just because people claim to see things doesn't make it true or it's true to them in terms of what they saw in either an altered state or the use of technology to make them see that - for the propagation of disinformation.

But you ignore the answers and just ask more questions

What answers?

what it all comes down to is you wont believe it unless you see it with your eyes.... which maybe you never will, what is a "Fact" in your eyes?.... when someone says they have seen it or when you have? when a whole civilisation says they have seen it? or when you have seen it....? because if you have not seen it and someone else has than you simply say that person is lying.... so what "Facts" are you asking for?


I'm looking for the "fact" that the people that are named as blood drinking shape shifting reptilian aliens are in fact that. There are no facts to prove this scenario.

I am convinced that the people running the world are dictated by a blood line of reptilian type humans who see them self's as a different spices to us and see us as total inferiors to them..

Strange, that's exactly how PSYCHOPATHS view other people. And if you think about it a psychopath is a different species of sorts in way that they lack components such as empathy or conscience.
What's the more likely scenario - provable psychopaths or shape shifting aliens with serious lack of evidence or proof of that's what they are?

and you have not?(pitched your tent)


Er, no.

How do you know its not the truth?....

Because of the evidence presented thus far and other data.

if you generally did not think they were real then you could brush it off by simply saying "I will believe it if I see it" because that's the only way you will... and I think even many who have seen it would not tell anyone and would even convince them self's they did not see it.....


I think it's more the case of why would superior beings want to have jobs and live among us in a very public way when they seem to have trouble holding human form (so people say) and risk blowing the whole ruse?

Now the point I have been trying to make is attributing the leaders etc of the world as being reptilian aliens that shape shift.

I personally think she has been brainwashed by the CIA or who ever.. to go to David and tell the story in as much of an OTT way as possible so the people who want to debunk the shapeshifting theory like your self...

It's more likely that she's brainwashed with the agenda of promoting disinformation.

[thirdwave]

I'm not talking about clairvoyant abilities here and it was in relation to the facts of shape shifting - no Derek Acorah needed.
And yes, people can read a possible future and tell someones past but the proof is in the pudding i.e. you have facts to show whether that person was correct or not.



No but we were talking about intuition which is used by people like Derek Acorah....

but i feel you are not really making a point... So if my intuition is correct after the info i have come across.... and I think shape shifting is real..... when does it become a fact?...other than you seeing it? If Im right, when does it officially get the "its a fact" certificate?...when you have seen it?

Im interested to hear you tell me what a "Fact" is. ...what has to happen for this shape shifting scenario to become a "Fact"?

You are simply saying if a clairvoyant says something will happen, its not valid enough to be a fact... when in past civilisations people have put the survival and health of their people down to decisions made by clairvoyants... and even to this day people are amazed by the accuracy and detail of the readings they get... why is it not seen as real though?? even though it has proved its self over and over again.


You mean like those pesky things called fact based evidence. Yeah, funny how that works, init?

well what do you want as a fact... what would it take for you to believe...

there is evidence out there.... a MASS of evidence, but you don't believe it because you don't think its real....

I think you are not looking for evidence to prove its real, as in your mind you always see it as a big possibility.. you are looking for evidence to convince you and me that its totally not possible and because you cant find any ..we are having the conversation...

you seem very strong on Facts.... where are your facts? ..when was the last time you had tea with the Queen?



Well for starters the reptile imagery could stem from the natives seeing reptilians in an altered state i.e. hallucinations from ingesting certain plants. It doesn't mean that the natives were shape shifters. And yes, I do tend to wait until I'm provided with the info to make a judgement hence my stance on this particular matter.

Yes of course we receive info, and then we use our judgment and perception to make of that info what we will.... I dont think its wise to let outside info build our outlook and belief system for us.

Yes, Im sure these Reptiles can be seen while in an altered state... But now its ok for people to see reptiles in a hallucinate state...all seeing the same beings and images and completely allowing it to take over their culture and belief... but its totally out of the question for them to see those images within a human person after experiencing an emotional situation where there state has been altered
...
Is it not a little bit logical that many might be linked with them and there are ways in which we can see them in this "reality"... if so why?


I keep repeating lack of evidence - mostly anecdotal. Just because people claim to see things doesn't make it true or it's true to them in terms of what they saw in either an altered state or the use of technology to make them see that - for the propagation of disinformation.

again it seems this is just more walls you are building up to create as much info against the idea as possible.... now you are saying eye witnesses don't count because they could be seeing things... mmmmm so what then, there must be a way we can make this fact.... throw me some ideas.... also since when has an altered state meant you are no longer in reality..... it just means your state of awareness has altered...


What answers?
the answers to your questions.... for example... you want facts, someone gives you an eye whiteness.... , no, they are not good enough you want more facts, there is many old texts...most burnt by the church stating that there was a genetic manipulation that when on where Reptilian DNA was used... which also fits in many of religions stories tails... but this all means nothing because it does not spell it out to you... well many mediums and chanellers are totally convinced in this stuff..... but that's not real either.... modern science tells us that our thoughts actually effect the atoms around us, meaning our perception actually effects matter and reality, again to you this does not at all make the shape shifting thing any more understandable.......... where does it end??
with out you seeing it with your own eyes, or with out Mr Bush announcing he is a Reptile on CNN, how can it be proven to you?. answer, it cant.




I'm looking for the "fact" that the people that are named as blood drinking shape shifting reptilian aliens are in fact that. There are no facts to prove this scenario.


So what would convince you?... and lets not make out that because someone in an interview, claims the queen mother is a blood drinking reptile,it means David Icke has claimed this.... he has his right listen to people and have his own views as we have.... his main focus is not on the fact these people are lizard blood drinkers.... that is just a part of it...the main point is that the blood line exists... and its controlled from a higher dimension.... he then presents the info of many people around the world actually seeing many of change into another image.... from his source of info, HE THINKS the people accused are blood drinking reptiles... although most of the time he will say he does not have literal evidence reviling someone is that.... but he thinks they are...im sure he would be very happy to have the opportunity to find evidence to see if he is right....


Strange, that's exactly how PSYCHOPATHS view other people. And if you think about it a psychopath is a different species of sorts in way that they lack components such as empathy or conscience.
What's the more likely scenario - provable psychopaths or shape shifting aliens with serious lack of evidence or proof of that's what they are?

the more likely scenario to me is the Aliens are, as we would put it, psychopaths. how do you know that the Aliens are not responsible for the creation of psychopaths?... how do you know psychopaths are not actually controlled by the very things that are controlling the elite?


Er, no.
ahhh so you are open to the possibility that they are shape shifting blood drinkers then, and the eye witnesses are %100 correct?


Because of the evidence presented thus far and other data.
no, that does not prove its not the truth, that is not strong enough evidence to state its not true, that just states that you cant comprehend it being the truth, because you have not received enough information how it can be true...


I think it's more the case of why would superior beings want to have jobs and live among us in a very public way when they seem to have trouble holding human form (so people say) and risk blowing the whole ruse?

Now the point I have been trying to make is attributing the leaders etc of the world as being reptilian aliens that shape shift.

well for a start we don't know that they are all super human, they are just in the driving seat..or appear to be to most...... maybe you or I could be seen shapshifting...maybe people who are seen have not even realised what the other person saw.... my friend saw it and she said the guy who she saw change was oblivious and was quite freaked at the way she looked at him.... she did not tell him what she saw...

what we do know is it seems to be that most of the people seen change are working in powerful jobs and most within government...

and that thing about them having trouble holding human forum... that was how AW put it and im not so sure about her views on this.... my feelings on it are its not they are having trouble keeping human forum... as they don't change forum.... its just our perception on how they look changes... its our perception that is changing in this day and age ...not them....



It's more likely that she's brainwashed with the agenda of promoting disinformation.

yeah tell the world the queen is a 8 foot lizard.... that will put them off track!!

im sure they could think of better rumours to spread to guess the masses of course.... the 8 foot lizard thing does not tend to grab the majority of people and put them off course.... what it does do is make the mere subject more discreditable for many... which for me indicates an attempt to make the subject less believable and more far fetched.

[cheeb]

the first part of your post stopped me in my tracks. I come across Derick Acorna years ago in Helston cornwall at an annual event called the flurry[floral] dance .He was then going by the name of Gypsy Acorah and had a caravan plastered with images and photos of him with the top showbiz stars not of the time but of a latter time international showbiz stars such as rod, jane and freddie' tommy cooper, tony blackburn ,rod hull and emu as well as the long forgetten cast of crackerjack and are you being served.he came out of his caravan with a blacked up face, wearing a turban and carrying a crystal ball.This thing is too camp even to exist on blackpool peir let alone being discussed on a forum dedicated for truth. Avery bad example for clairvoyance but a very good thread for monty pythonesque type comedy - apparently he told Jimmy Krankie that when he grew up hed meet a lovely ladiee and she would have his children called sapphire, steele and steede without a trace of irony
Thank you for that insight into your gullibality.Please dont ban me from this forum i love it.

[them]

Gypsy Acorah... A very bad example for clairvoyance... Thank you for that insight into your gullibality.Please dont ban me from this forum i love it.

So your position is, that when Derek Acorah gets possessed, live on Most Haunted (http://www.livingtv.co.uk/mosthaunted/), he is in actual fact, acting?

I find that difficult to swallow, the evidence clearly proves otherwise.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. - It gets going at about 1 minute 30

http://play.www.flextech.servecast.net/flextech/mh/video/121833.wmv

http://www.derekacorah.org/

[thirdwave]

the first part of your post stopped me in my tracks. I come across Derick Acorna years ago in Helston cornwall at an annual event called the flurry[floral] dance .He was then going by the name of Gypsy Acorah and had a caravan plastered with images and photos of him with the top showbiz stars not of the time but of a latter time international showbiz stars such as rod, jane and freddie' tommy cooper, tony blackburn ,rod hull and emu as well as the long forgetten cast of crackerjack and are you being served.he came out of his caravan with a blacked up face, wearing a turban and carrying a crystal ball.This thing is too camp even to exist on blackpool peir let alone being discussed on a forum dedicated for truth. Avery bad example for clairvoyance but a very good thread for monty pythonesque type comedy - apparently he told Jimmy Krankie that when he grew up hed meet a lovely ladiee and she would have his children called sapphire, steele and steede without a trace of irony
Thank you for that insight into your gullibality.Please dont ban me from this forum i love it.


I'm not really sure what your getting at...

I did not bring him up, personally i do not have a view on him.... as far as I am concerned I have met and heard of some extremely accurate clairvoyants.... im sure there are some out there who are total frauds trying to make a buck and if you think DA is one of them then so be it, I have not really made my mind up about him, but like I say I used him as an example because his name was presented to me....

[cheeb]

sorry to burst your bubble he is acting and not very well.he is what we call in england a pantomime dame

[thirdwave]

sorry to burst your bubble he is acting and not very well.he is what we call in england a pantomime dame


Do you think he is acting because the things he does is not real and not possible.... or you think there are people who can do what he does but he is not one of them??

[cheeb]

no i think he is acting because he wears a turban, carries a crystal ball , blacks up his face and talks in a stupid voice do you think dame edna everidge is a real woman he is far less credibale than this and far from being a natioinal treasure he is a national embarresment

[neutron flux]

No but we were talking about intuition which is used by people like Derek Acorah....

but i feel you are not really making a point... So if my intuition is correct after the info i have come across.... and I think shape shifting is real..... when does it become a fact?...other than you seeing it? If Im right, when does it officially get the "its a fact" certificate?...when you have seen it?

Im interested to hear you tell me what a "Fact" is. ...what has to happen for this shape shifting scenario to become a "Fact"?


Fact - a concept whose truth can be proved. The people named as shape shifting cannot be proved, thus it is not a fact.

You are simply saying if a clairvoyant says something will happen, its not valid enough to be a fact...

Of course it's not fact unless what they say comes to pass.

and even to this day people are amazed by the accuracy and detail of the readings they get... why is it not seen as real though?? even though it has proved its self over and over again.


I never said clairvoyants have never been correct, but this isn't about clairvoyants now is it?

well what do you want as a fact... what would it take for you to believe...

there is evidence out there.... a MASS of evidence, but you don't believe it because you don't think its real....

There is more evidence to show they are not shape shifters than there is to prove they are.

Yes, Im sure these Reptiles can be seen while in an altered state... But now its ok for people to see reptiles in a hallucinate state...all seeing the same beings and images and completely allowing it to take over their culture and belief... but its totally out of the question for them to see those images within a human person after experiencing an emotional situation where there state has been altered
...
Is it not a little bit logical that many might be linked with them and there are ways in which we can see them in this "reality"... if so why?


There's a big difference between seeing something in an altered state and someone having the biological capacity to change from one form to the next.

again it seems this is just more walls you are building up to create as much info against the idea as possible

As Icke would say: "I'm going where the information takes me". The information goes against the idea.

now you are saying eye witnesses don't count because they could be seeing things... mmmmm so what then, there must be a way we can make this fact.... throw me some ideas....


Eye witness accounts are subjective and are open to interpretation especially if you take into account the other ideas I have presented such as cointelpro "plants" and hallucinations produced by substances or technology.

also since when has an altered state meant you are no longer in reality.....

When you're asleep is but one example.

well many mediums and chanellers are totally convinced in this stuff..... but that's not real either..

I never said that mediums or clairvoyants are not real.
In fact there is channeled material that actually goes AGAINST the idea of the elite being shape shifters such as the Cassiopean transcripts, Barbara Marciniak and the Ra material. There is also the fact of "cosmic cointelpro" as well as "noise" generated from the next level up to twist and confuse the truth seeker into dead ends. If you have properly researched then these ideas should not be new to you.

modern science tells us that our thoughts actually effect the atoms around us, meaning our perception actually effects matter and reality, again to you this does not at all make the shape shifting thing any more understandable..........

So if you think about shape shifting into a plant, for example, through thought alone does that mean you will?

although most of the time he will say he does not have literal evidence reviling someone is that.... but he thinks they are...im sure he would be very happy to have the opportunity to find evidence to see if he is right....


Then it's just a hypothesis, not fact.

the more likely scenario to me is the Aliens are, as we would put it, psychopaths. how do you know that the Aliens are not responsible for the creation of psychopaths?... how do you know psychopaths are not actually controlled by the very things that are controlling the elite?


Psychopaths are not shape shifting aliens. I think the psychos are influenced by hyperdimensional beings - as could anyone at some point.

ahhh so you are open to the possibility that they are shape shifting blood drinkers then, and the eye witnesses are %100 correct?


It's more likely they are psychopaths than shape shifting blood drinkers.

no, that does not prove its not the truth, that is not strong enough evidence to state its not true, that just states that you cant comprehend it being the truth, because you have not received enough information how it can be true...


Well that's the point - there isn't enough information to show it's true - and any amount of blind faith or intuition is going to magically turn it into fact.

and that thing about them having trouble holding human forum... that was how AW put it and im not so sure about her views on this.... my feelings on it are its not they are having trouble keeping human forum... as they don't change forum....

So you readily admit that the theory is flawed due to dodgy eye witness testimonial - and now you seem to think that they don't change form - :confused:

yeah tell the world the queen is a 8 foot lizard.... that will put them off track!!

im sure they could think of better rumours to spread to guess the masses of course.... the 8 foot lizard thing does not tend to grab the majority of people and put them off course.... what it does do is make the mere subject more discreditable for many... which for me indicates an attempt to make the subject less believable and more far fetched.

It works on two levels:
1. The majority reject everything associated with the global conspiracy.
2. The genuine truth seeker is lead down a dead end and is constantly looking on how they can make them shape shift etc. The lizard within is ignored, as is the hyperdimensional aspect that can influence our everyday lives and makes us "food".

[neutron flux]

no i think he is acting because he wears a turban, carries a crystal ball , blacks up his face and talks in a stupid voice do you think dame edna everidge is a real woman he is far less credibale than this and far from being a natioinal treasure he is a national embarresment

ROFL!:D

[thirdwave]

Fact - a concept whose truth can be proved. The people named as shape shifting cannot be proved, thus it is not a fact.


Well no one has named anyone as a shape shifter as a Fact..... people have aired their views on who they think is... due believing that some people are.... we are talking about if its possible for some to be seen as shapshifting .... and how you refuse to see it as a possibility because you have seen no facts.... what would need to happen to make you think its a fact?


Of course it's not fact unless what they say comes to pass.

ahhhhh ok, so what about if they read someone's past? its fact when??


I never said clairvoyants have never been correct, but this isn't about clairvoyants now is it?
No but Clairvoyants use intuition that revel facts..... so why if someone uses and totally trusts their intuition on the shapshifting scenario, after feeling they have taken in enough info for their intuition to give them judgment on the matter, why is this impossible for one to rely on this?...


There is more evidence to show they are not shape shifters than there is to prove they are.
what evidence says they are not?...they don't admit it.... most people have not witnessed it..... what else???



There's a big difference between seeing something in an altered state and someone having the biological capacity to change from one form to the next. why does it have to do with a biological capacity?? you are refusing to think out side of a 3 dimensional way of thinking, and there for cant comprehend certain things.... I have been on LCD and seen peoples faced change shape.... not because their skin tissue moved, but because I could then see more atoms that I could not see before....



As Icke would say: "I'm going where the information takes me". The information goes against the idea.
not for me, and many others...


Eye witness accounts are subjective and are open to interpretation especially if you take into account the other ideas I have presented such as cointelpro "plants" and hallucinations produced by substances or technology.

so there you go.... there is no way to give you the facts you need.... how do you know the witnesses are not %100 correct... you don't.... you just choose to not believe them... and then tell me there is no evidence. and again you assume that altered states are not not real....



When you're asleep is but one example.
and what evidence do you have that when we are asleep we are no longer in reality, because our bodies are laying in bed where out mind is else where? .... I take it you also believe that when our bodies die our consciousness vanishes?



I never said that mediums or clairvoyants are not real.
In fact there is channeled material that actually goes AGAINST the idea of the elite being shape shifters such as the Cassiopean transcripts, Barbara Marciniak and the Ra material. There is also the fact of "cosmic cointelpro" as well as "noise" generated from the next level up to twist and confuse the truth seeker into dead ends. If you have properly researched then these ideas should not be new to you.


the material does not go against it ........ does not focus on it so to you it provides you with an alternative view point you are comfy with... and feel its going against the idea....Barbara Marciniak has infact brought up the reptilians before, she is very cool I find. also people are free to have a view and not think its true..... nothing wrong with that.... but you are trying to convince others its not true and that they have no foundations for it... with nothing to back your claims up..


So if you think about shape shifting into a plant, for example, through thought alone does that mean you will?
well man kind has not seemed to have a very good grasp on its self and considering we only use %10 of our DNA then its not a shock.... I think potentially the human mind can create anything it wants ..just like your flower theory.... I think its scientific possible at a very deep level.... but we are far from being the finished article...



Then it's just a hypothesis, not fact.
well for people like your self he would very much like to provide you with the Facts and has spent several years knocking on the doors, but does not get many invitations to go get the "facts", although he is getting there....

like I say, in your way of thinking...nothing is Fact until you have seen it with your own eyes.... and even then you might just be in an altered state....so even that might not be a Fact....



Psychopaths are not shape shifting aliens. I think the psychos are influenced by hyperdimensional beings - as could anyone at some point.
how do you know that the shape shifters are not influenced by the hyperdimensional beings, why is it possible for some to be turned into psychos by the hyperdimensional beings but shape shifting is not possible...



It's more likely they are psychopaths than shape shifting blood drinkers.

more likely to be people controlled by hyperdimensional beings than shape shifting blood drinkers?... why?



Well that's the point - there isn't enough information to show it's true - and any amount of blind faith or intuition is going to magically turn it into fact.
not enough for YOU. because you choose to disregard it.... intuition does not magically create facts.... it seeks them out.


So you readily admit that the theory is flawed due to dodgy eye witness testimonial - and now you seem to think that they don't change form - :confused:

not at all.... I have said to you a good few times I am not really convinced in AW ... im not sure if she is for real or not..I would lean more towards her not being the truth.... but you are making out she is the main source of info and what his whole work is about.... when its not.... many many others have stories.... you are basing it all on one interview... and her so called experience.... and like I say the reason I don't trust her is she seems like a very good tool for people like your self who want to de bunk the scenario... and she provides that. and takes away the credibility of all the others... but I have also said which I'm sure you can relate to here.... we have not EVIDENCE she is fake..... no Facts ;)



It works on two levels:
1. The majority reject everything associated with the global conspiracy.
2. The genuine truth seeker is lead down a dead end and is constantly looking on how they can make them shape shift etc. The lizard within is ignored, as is the hyperdimensional aspect that can influence our everyday lives and makes us "food".

so you think that most people now believe that the queen is a 7 foot blood drinking lizard??

or are they like me, where they don't really buy into that AW woman but do by into the shapeshifting thing?

are you saying that over all AW claims are very believable for the conspiracy lot?... So what you are saying is you think its believable what she says???

[foreverspirit]

Well, "precious self" denotes a level of self-importance for starters, but it must be understood that people wear "masks" or run "programs" that must be stripped away, and sometimes "scratching" them is necessary to expose their true nature. I'll expand further some other time.

The person being "scratched" also has the opportunity to self observe.


Hi Neutron flux:

We always need to be directed away from our self-importance right? See Quote!

"Masks" or "Programs", "Scratching necessary to expose their true nature"? What evil caused the need for these "Masks"? What evil put these programs into man? See Quote

True Nature? No need for you to expand, just see Quote!

No need to "scratch", the moment I am allowed to feel joy, I get the opportunity to observe who and how truly wonderful I am.:cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah42

I am of the oppinion that we are the force of good, and thats why the forces of "evil" are so intent on controlling us. They know that they cant beat us, so they are doing all they can to distract us from realising our true ability, which is ultimately the "power" to control our own destiny. They would also love for us to be looking for a force for good working behind the scenes to protect us, in order to distract us from the fact that WE ARE THAT FORCE. They know that with that knowledge and the abolity to put it to practical use, they will be banished from this realm forever, so they have set up their NWO thing with associated symbolism to hold us in their spell, and distract those that arent affected with spirtual systems that encourage us to look outside ourselves for "good" forces. ]So find the power in you, and turn it into the good force you want to see.

WOW, SOOOO NUFF SAID!!:cool:

Quote from GEOSPIRIT:

There is nothing more important for you at this time than to seek higher than you have done to date. We must be uncompromising and unconditionally consecrated to the Truth -...EXPANDED AWARENESS

[oneofmany]

I have been on LCD
how is the computer screen going for you there as a drug thirdwave :D

[thirdwave]

how is the computer screen going for you there as a drug thirdwave :D

..ahh what can i say it was late on a monday morning :D

[oneofmany]

..ahh what can i say it was late on a monday morning :DI hear you brother :D

[neutron flux]

Well no one has named anyone as a shape shifter as a Fact

So it's still a theory, nothing more; and theories can be wrong.

ahhhhh ok, so what about if they read someone's past? its fact when??


If they read someones past accurately, then they get a gold star and a big thumbs up from thirdwave - again this is distracting from the real issue.

No but Clairvoyants use intuition that revel facts.....

As far as I know Clairvoyants predict possible outcomes to someones probable future, but seeing as the future is open due to free will, somethings won't come to pass. And some clairvoyants are just plain rubbish.


why does it have to do with a biological capacity?? you are refusing to think out side of a 3 dimensional way of thinking, and there for cant comprehend certain things.... I have been on LCD and seen peoples faced change shape.... not because their skin tissue moved, but because I could then see more atoms that I could not see before....


I've taken LSD before (is that what you meant? Or is there a new drug just to see shape shifters?) and seen things "breath" and faces morph etc. So what? It doesn't prove anything. I personally think that LSD etc give you a glimpse of the next level up - but - the theory goes they can shape shift in this density and they need to drink blood to hold human form, which denotes a biological capacity to shift ones shape.

so there you go.... there is no way to give you the facts you need.... how do you know the witnesses are not %100 correct... you don't.... you just choose to not believe them... and then tell me there is no evidence. and again you assume that altered states are not not real....


You cross-refernce data to come to a reasonable conclusion. In this case it doesn't hold water. If new data comes to light then I could re-examine the issue, but even Icke barely gives the whole shape shifters a mention in his latest books.

and what evidence do you have that when we are asleep we are no longer in reality, because our bodies are laying in bed where out mind is else where? .... I take it you also believe that when our bodies die our consciousness vanishes?


I think that in some sleep states we have OBE type experiences - but I was giving an example of an altered state - like you asked. And no, you're wrong, I do believe that our consciousness lives on after our bodies expire. Anymore assumptions you want to make about me?

the material does not go against it ........ does not focus on it

You obviously haven't read the material - it's more in line with the idea that the lizzies are 4th level - not 3rd. No need for the farmer to live in the chicken coop.

but you are trying to convince others its not true and that they have no foundations for it... with nothing to back your claims up..


You are trying to convince me with sparse evidence from mind controlled slaves, the odd subjective eye witness and some salt.

well man kind has not seemed to have a very good grasp on its self and considering we only use %10 of our DNA then its not a shock.... I think potentially the human mind can create anything it wants ..just like your flower theory.... I think its scientific possible at a very deep level.... but we are far from being the finished article...



I await your transformation into a Rhododendron.

so you think that most people now believe that the queen is a 7 foot blood drinking lizard??

or are they like me, where they don't really buy into that AW woman but do by into the shapeshifting thing?

are you saying that over all AW claims are very believable for the conspiracy lot?... So what you are saying is you think its believable what she says???

Okay....to put it into simple terms, no I don't think that most people believe the queen is a blood drinking lizard from another planet - it put people off thus they reject anything to do with the global conspiracy (according to Icke anyway). If you think AW is fake - why do you think she's there propagating the whole shape shifters?? Disinformation, init!! Cointelpro, init!!

[a fine naked fellow]

Sorry about not reading the discussions in this thread.
So I don’t know if any one has made this point yet or not.
…but shouldn’t the title read, does anyone actually believe in david icke’s material?

Personally I believe the themes are correct, but not all details.

And please do not take this the wrong way any mod peoples.
But if I ever met icke I would try to talk him into letting me rub his belly.
And if he said no, I would try to do it on the sneak, or trick him.

But I think icke is a cool fella, so he would prolly let me.

Infinite love is groovay.

Plus, icke is the best, for bringing us credo mutwa.

[thirdwave]

So it's still a theory, nothing more; and theories can be wrong.



I agree until you can prove someone is a shape shifter then it cant be viewed as a Fact..... but this does not mean its not a Fact that people have seen people shapeshift.... and THAT is what you have a problem with ....

no one has claimed it to be a Fact that a particular person is a shape shift, apart from AW... so what is your point?



If they read someone's past accurately, then they get a gold star and a big thumbs up from thirdwave - again this is distracting from the real issue.

No its not, because its a valid example of how something can be a fact by using ones intuition....even though you would not view it as a "fact". so its very much relevant to this discussion...


As far as I know Clairvoyants predict possible outcomes to someone's probable future, but seeing as the future is open due to free will, somethings won't come to pass. And some clairvoyants are just plain rubbish.

But you are ignoring the other talents they have...reading peoples past.... which would be based on Fact...

also if someone predicts ones future and it comes true, then it would have been a fact at the time of the prediction, because one would have made the claim and would have got their Facts %100 right.... its just at the time, you would not have believed them because you would not have rated it as a fact .... even if one predicts ones possible future it does not mean it was not a fact that the events could be possible....

which is why I am pointing out, the only Facts that you are happy to except are things you can see with your own eyes, how else could it be proven to you? ..... and even going by some of your past comments.... your eyes might even not be good enough for a fact because you might just be in an altered state of consciousness...

So tell us all what Facts you need to convince you that many shapeshifting stories are Real events based on Fact.

?????





I've taken LSD before (is that what you meant? Or is there a new drug just to see shape shifters?) and seen things "breath" and faces morph etc. So what? It doesn't prove anything. I personally think that LSD etc give you a glimpse of the next level up - but - the theory goes they can shape shift in this density and they need to drink blood to hold human form, which denotes a biological capacity to shift ones shape.

ok So you have been on LSD and seen people faces morph and seen things breath..and you think its you are seeing things on the next level...ok.... but you don't believe that people have seen an intense experience very similar to this while in a state of tense sexual arousment or intense anger...putting them into a different perspective and seeing this....? where oddly enough we actually use a part of our brain that is labelled "The Reptilian Brain"..

and your reason is you don't think the many people who claim to have seen this are telling the truth?... or maybe they were just "hallucinating"?.. (but not from the next level up as you do when on LSD)


You cross-refernce data to come to a reasonable conclusion. In this case it doesn't hold water. If new data comes to light then I could re-examine the issue, but even Icke barely gives the whole shape shifters a mention in his latest books.

well he has pretty much covered it I would say... and is by no means backing down from the subject...as we saw when he was on mainstream TV telling the UK how he thinks the government and royal family are wriddled with them...

I don't come to a reasonable conclusion... I am %100 convinced.... I hear peoples views and I hear people talk of what they have seen.... using my experience with "reality" and my out look ..along with my perception ..which I have great trust in... I am convinced the shapshifting scenario is very real... I also understand why so many people cant fathom it... it may not hold water for you, but your views do not hold water either... you just choose to give what you view as reality the benefit of the doubt, when you also know very little about that.

I think that in some sleep states we have OBE type experiences - but I was giving an example of an altered state - like you asked. And no, you're wrong, I do believe that our consciousness lives on after our bodies expire. Anymore assumptions you want to make about me?


Glad to hear it.... So I will make another assumption that you are aware that we do not need physical matter around us to experience "reality"?

have you any evidence that OBE experiences are not actual reality? as well as every other dream state?... how do you know you are not in reality when sleeping?, and have not just left your body to another reality where physical matter is not required?

You obviously haven't read the material - it's more in line with the idea that the lizzies are 4th level - not 3rd. No need for the farmer to live in the chicken coop.

I have read lots of her work

yes she backs up that there are entities of a reptile nature in the 4th-5th D that they call lizzies as its a less sceary name for them...so on.... and they are manipulating things.... just because she has not said... "and when some humans have got them self's into a certain emotional state, they have seen other human's appearance change into the image much like these Reptilians that live in the 4th dimension..... (the next level up)"

it does not mean she is discrediting it.... she has not come across it ..fare enough.


You are trying to convince me with sparse evidence from mind controlled slaves, the odd subjective eye witness and some salt.
wrong, if you do not believe in it after the evidence you have been presented with, then that's not a problem... you are entitled to your view... but I am arguing the point where you have said, "there's no evidence" and its just all made up and people believe it without asking questions...so on.... this is the points I am pointing out are wrong... and it is you who is trying to convince others...the things they see are not real.... not that in your views the subject is not valid.


I await your transformation into a Rhododendron.
you never know!



Okay....to put it into simple terms, no I don't think that most people believe the queen is a blood drinking lizard from another planet - it put people off thus they reject anything to do with the global conspiracy (according to Icke anyway). If you think AW is fake - why do you think she's there propagating the whole shape shifters?? Disinformation, init!! Cointelpro, init!!

well if there was not a load of people shouting this info around all over the world including cultures from years back, as well as the over all connection the elite has with reptilian symbolism so on...... then it might have been a good creation for the elite to use.... but the thing is, they did not create the idea... it has been around for a long time.... which means if AW was a move by the elite then they have obviously felt the need to ADD something to the reptilian rumours..., why?.... What they have added does not come across as if they have put much effort into making it very believable does it? ...I would say it looks a bit more like an effort to make it less believable....

But in good old neutron flux fashion, we cant right it off as we have no evidence she is lying ;)

[seanx]

Cheeb wrote;

THe shapeshifting thing is a distraction,a sideshow.We need to hurry up and expose the NWO QUICKLY before that jackboot will be stamping on our faces forever.

Why rush?

The NWO is doing us a favour. It is revealing US TO OURSELVES.

i only realized this a while ago.

We keep blaming Blair, Bush and all these leaders - but they're just
thinking and feeling what the majority of people think and feel.

But we like to blind ourselves to that.

We like to pretend that we, the public are not like these
'leaders' - but we are them in microcosm.

Stuart Wilde wrote this a while ago - and it pinpoints the same
thing.

The TV system is very much a part of our human shadow made manifest (externalized) in the sitting room for us to watch.

Of course, people don’t usually link the evil we see on telly with the evil inside of us. The cold, silent disdain we have for other humans is the same cold arrogance and disdain our leaders have for ethnic groups they don’t approve of that they want to bomb.

The fat potentate on a fancy chair in a gilded room, meeting with other important potentates, is very much our ego going about day-to-day seeking observers, cloaked in the raiment of its importance.

It is all a shadow play, and how you redeem yourself is you wake to the shadow within and incorporate it in your life. So you become both light and dark.


The dark is very sneaky and it can con you into thinking you are spiritual because you go to church, or because you have a diaper on ya head and you do yoga at four a.m. But all that is a trick so you never see the dark inside you and uncover it.

Your shadow is the CIA of your mind, it controls without you being aware of it. You have to work on it now or it will close around and never let you out.

Oil

Oil is the black blood of our humanity, the ego’s desire for itself and power and velocity, which of course is an illusion of importance and grandeur.

Like the workaholic that is very important and very busy and off to discuss very important matters to do with promoting its specialness. Black blood blinds you; it is a form of liquid hate for Gaia.

So for humans to see properly once more, our black blood has to be taken from the collective global body and cleaned. It’s the dialysis for our collective human soul. So you can see why the oil has to go. Sooner or later the Jews or the Americans will attack Iran that should be enough to close the spigot, but then again I predicted about six years ago that the House of Saud would collapse. At that time the ideas seems ridiculous but now you can see that if insurgents attack the House of Saud (as they will) and if they get hold of all the Saudi oil then anything could happen.

Once the oil goes the global ego dies and humans have to become real and they have to come off their ivory towers and work together to survive. It is like a New Age workshop on a global scale. Hugs and caring and sharing and love and stuff - might work.

The loss of the oil is beautiful and global warming will be cured overnight so that it is a good thing. I said some time ago, get rid of your SUV while you still can

So there is no need to rush.

Remember the Irqa war. How many marched in Dublin to protest?
Just a 100,000 out of 6 million population

In london - just a million out of 60 millions.

The vast majority of the rest ...just DIDN'T GIVE A DAMN.

Blair and Bush are just these people personalized.

So let's not get too concerned about NWO. They're just our group
mind in form. They are doing us a favour.

[cheeb]

I dont care much for politicians be they Bliar,Bush,Thatcher,Mahatmi Ghandi or mother theresa. They are all much of a muchhessand doing the bidding of their masters.,
I have never and would never waste my time voting for any of them or voting for none of the above.
T.V is ok, futurama is good, but to me its a take it or leave it media,it is of no consequence just a device to sway public opinion not a reflection of reality.
Oil is only organic matter that has decomposed under great pressures and this to me suggests that it is not the finite source of energy that we have led to beleive.
Global warming has nothing to do with humans or fossil fuels it has more to do with the suns activity ,at the moment the martian surface is warming up and its ice caps are melting.
I use the term NWO as an umbrella to cover a few organisations and coorperations that have a global agenda.
Part of this agenda is to loose us our freedoms,starting a war in the middle east with Iran that will escalate and go global, a total surveillance society,imprisonment without trial [this is already happening in guantelmo bay]
their methods are terrorist operations real and false flags,taxing us for carbon emissions to fund their milatary complex,the denial of our freedoms of speech through political correctness and going to war with soverign nations over alledged WMD's and when none are found changing the goalposts to regime change and democracy
YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS ALREADY!!!!!
I say be very concerned about the NWO 'it seems to be accelerating very rapidly almost daily.
I shall finish with this quote:

First they came for the ............

I cant remember the order or who said it but im sure someone will

[thirdwave]

Cheeb wrote;



Why rush?

The NWO is doing us a favour. It is revealing US TO OURSELVES.

i only realized this a while ago.

We keep blaming Blair, Bush and all these leaders - but they're just
thinking and feeling what the majority of people think and feel.

But we like to blind ourselves to that.

We like to pretend that we, the public are not like these
'leaders' - but we are them in microcosm.

Stuart Wilde wrote this a while ago - and it pinpoints the same
thing.



So there is no need to rush.

Remember the Irqa war. How many marched in Dublin to protest?
Just a 100,000 out of 6 million population

In london - just a million out of 60 millions.

The vast majority of the rest ...just DIDN'T GIVE A DAMN.

Blair and Bush are just these people personalized.

So let's not get too concerned about NWO. They're just our group
mind in form. They are doing us a favour.



I see what your saying, kind of agree....

[neutron flux]

if you do not believe in it after the evidence you have been presented with, then that's not a problem...

Then we'll leave it at that, because this has the potential to go on longer than that g-unit thread over at the old forum,lol. :)

Why rush?

Well, the world is on fire - and we're hurtling into global fascism at an unprecedented rate - no time for a cuppa tea and a slice of cake.

We keep blaming Blair, Bush and all these leaders - but they're just
thinking and feeling what the majority of people think and feel.


My God, I hope not because that would mean the majority of people lack empathy, compassion and any form of conscience. :eek:

We like to pretend that we, the public are not like these
'leaders' - but we are them in microcosm.


Some people are like them, but then again they have a mental disorder.

The cold, silent disdain we have for other humans

Wait a minute, I don't have a "cold, silent disdain" for other humans - I think this says a great deal about Stuart Wilde.....

Once the oil goes

What, "peak oil"? We all know that's a scam.

humans have to become real and they have to come off their ivory towers and work together to survive.

People who live in ivory towers certainly won't be mingling with us.

The loss of the oil is beautiful and global warming will be cured overnight so that it is a good thing.

Maybe we should wake stuey up as he seems to be living in la-la land.

Remember the Irqa war. How many marched in Dublin to protest?
Just a 100,000 out of 6 million population

In london - just a million out of 60 millions.

The vast majority of the rest ...just DIDN'T GIVE A DAMN.


That's an assumption because I would have protested but I couldn't get to London that day - and I'm sure many others would have.

So let's not get too concerned about NWO. They're just our group
mind in form. They are doing us a favour.

Favour?! If people were more aware of psychopaths then we could stop such people with disorders from rising to positions of power. They don't reflect the majority with conscience at all.

[cheeb]

one million people marching in london against an unjust war isnt a poultry number its huge
Icant do the maths but i reckon its 2% of at least the walking population when you consider all the other people who were anti war ,old or would not enter that cess pitt that is london that didnt go on the march but agreed with the sentiments this is what you would consider in modern speak as 'awesome'

[i_am]

one million people marching in london against an unjust war isnt a poultry number its huge
Icant do the maths but i reckon its 2% of at least the walking population when you consider all the other people who were anti war ,old or would not enter that cess pitt that is london that didnt go on the march but agreed with the sentiments this is what you would consider in modern speak as 'awesome'


Yeah! I agree. I can't remember how many marched in Aus but it was huge. The mainstream media is giving the figures anyway so they are probably grossly underestimated.

I attended one of many on the Sunshine Coast. It was organised by Vietnam Vets and they had a lot of the facts first hand.

[cowboy]

Hey guys, new here. :D

I just bought David Icke's book Infinite Love Is the Only Truth: Everything Else Is Illusion. I got it today, finished about 50 pages, and I will say this. He is 100% RIGHT about a small group of elite buying up the banks/molding our reality etc....

As for these "elite" being reptillians. I'm not sure. I read it with an open mind, and repsect David Icke so much for what he does. After reading all his work i'm sure i will come to a conclusion. :)

[tonto o_reilly]

Hey guys, new here. :D

I just bought David Icke's book Infinite Love Is the Only Truth: Everything Else Is Illusion. I got it today, finished about 50 pages, and I will say this. He is 100% RIGHT about a small group of elite buying up the banks/molding our reality etc....

As for these "elite" being reptillians. I'm not sure. I read it with an open mind, and repsect David Icke so much for what he does. After reading all his work i'm sure i will come to a conclusion. :)

Welcome the forum Cowboy, it is great to have you with us :)
The book you have is a great one!! If it is the first DI book you have read, can I suggest that you also read some of his earlier works so that you can perhaps better establish your thoughts on it all. DI like all of us is on a journey, and with each book he writes more of the pennies fall into their slots. I am not for one second saying that David has it all right, but I am saying that it is definately touching on the right spots.

Infinite love is his most recent book, and although you do not have to read all his other books to fully understand what he is saying, can I recommend to you 'the biggest secret' A fantastic peice of work.

Again, welcome and we look forward to your thoughts and ideas :D

TO

[cowboy]

Welcome the forum Cowboy, it is great to have you with us :)
The book you have is a great one!! If it is the first DI book you have read, can I suggest that you also read some of his earlier works so that you can perhaps better establish your thoughts on it all. DI like all of us is on a journey, and with each book he writes more of the pennies fall into their slots. I am not for one second saying that David has it all right, but I am saying that it is definately touching on the right spots.

Infinite love is his most recent book, and although you do not have to read all his other books to fully understand what he is saying, can I recommend to you 'the biggest secret' A fantastic peice of work.

Again, welcome and we look forward to your thoughts and ideas :D

TO

thanks for the kind words. I will definitley get more of Icke's work after i'm done with this book. I just came across some sick news of an indiviual named "Royal Adams" making money of David's work. Am i still supporting David Icke if i buy the books at my local Border's bookstore? Thanks.

[thirdwave]

one million people marching in london against an unjust war isnt a poultry number its huge
Icant do the maths but i reckon its 2% of at least the walking population when you consider all the other people who were anti war ,old or would not enter that cess pitt that is london that didnt go on the march but agreed with the sentiments this is what you would consider in modern speak as 'awesome'

I think its a big number.... many people don't believe the war but are just not the sort of people to go to those things... also people have work commitments... I nearly went to an anti war walk.... but 2 things stopped me...

1, I could not get off work early enough to travel into London... and 2, I would rather go to a pro peace campaign as allot of these anti war campaigns have allot of people just there to promote the "other side" so to speak and express their innocents.... which does not really do much for reviling how corrupt our government is... its just another way of creating more conflict...

[neutron flux]

First they came for the ............

I cant remember the order or who said it but im sure someone will

Niemöller's famous quote generally runs as follows:

First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing.

Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing.

Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist.

And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little.

Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.'

[armitage_vi]

I agree with about 80% of what David Icke talks about. Sure there are some things that it's hard for me to truly beieve in, however that's the beautiful thing about being an individual and having freedom, I can listen to David and I can form my opinions. I pretty much believe in everything he talks about the shapeshifting reptillians is the ONLY thing I take with a grain of salt.

David Icke has done an AMAZING job and probably the most articulate person to speak on topics such as Infinite Consciousness, Ancient Astronaughts, Secret Societies, and 9/11, etc...

I have always enjoyed David Icke and I think his GREATEST stance is that he has a sense of humor about everything, and he's NEVER said "Believe me I'm right, I will give you all the answers". In fact he has taught me to NEVER settle on any official version, to ALWAYS ask questions, and to think for myself. That's more than I can say that anyone in the United States media has ever told me.....

Cheers to Icke,
David Flick

[seanx]

As long as we continue to think that the problem is with NWO or with
the Elite - we'll continue to fight the mirror - the shadow.

Go the America - and talk to the majority of people there - and -more
or less, they all agree with Bush or the general political consensus.

But it is easy for us to think that the probelm is only with Bush or
whichever madman- woman takes over after him.

That if we only could change them - all our problems would be solved.

But that's a simple view.

W're marching to global fasism because, believe it or not, most people
don't mind it - if it guarantees them security, a job, decent regular
money and the opportunity to have lots of sex.

The external always REVEALS the TRUE internal. It looks as if people
who are attuned to this nightmare - will have to experience it so that
they can live out the consequences of their choices.

And maybe in the ultimate sense, it's no bad thing.

But it didn't be your reality. if you hold to a vibration of love and freedom,
you'll find yourself in a similar reality, untouched by the above.

So we shouldn't get too upset about what is happening. Who are we to
interfere with other people's realities, even if they are realities
created in unconscious blindness.

[armitage_vi]

The mirror reveals.....

We also have to remember that all these time people are saying it's US versus the goverment, have to remember The PEOPLE are the goverment, so you have to educate and make the masses start thinking for themselves. Sure most people are sheep but if you can get 1 person to turn off the television and start question things, then the ripple is in effect....

[cheeb]

An answer to seanX previous 2 posts.

Quote "thats the kind of self deception that killed 10 million jews"
CRASS Bloody Revolutions

I find this way of thinking as morally retarded.
This kind of attitude is remeniscient of nazi germany and "I was only obeying orders " mode of not taking responsability for their actions.
It lacks empathy 'compassion and is bankrupt.
It prevents advancement to the spiritually aware person that you are.
I suggest you re educate yourself
Stanley Millgrams Attitudes Towards Authority might be a start'but im sure there are better suggestions

"those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it"

[armitage_vi]

An answer to seanX previous 2 posts.

Quote "thats the kind of self deception that killed 10 million jews"
CRASS Bloody Revolutions

I find this way of thinking as morally retarded.
This kind of attitude is remeniscient of nazi germany and "I was only obeying orders " mode of not taking responsability for their actions.
It lacks empathy 'compassion and is bankrupt.
It prevents advancement to the spiritually aware person that you are.
I suggest you re educate yourself
Stanley Millgrams Attitudes Towards Authority might be a start'but im sure there are better suggestions

"those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it"


I agree, you come to a cross roads where you have to decide to do what you personally feel is morally right, or what the system says it right. I went through this crisis from 2005 and 2006 when the U.S. Army was telling me I was an Army Desserter because aparently I was recalled to serve in Operation Iraqi: Invasion. They said I has to report or I was a desserter. At that point I had to really ask, Do I do what I think is morally right, or do I go with the system....

In the end I went with my morals and fought it and did not go......

[seanx]

Cheeb,


Do me a favour - before you respond with ignorant comments - do people
the courtesy here of even reading some of dave icke's books.


if you did, you'd understand that when we say the world is a mirror -
it is not to excuse it or to ignore it - but it is HELPING us by
showing us what people are really thinking and feeling.


It is helping us to expose what our deepest beliefs and fears
are.

So when we say external reality is doing us a favour we mean it in
THAT CONTEXT ONLY.


You can change all the externals you want - but NOTHING will
change until our consciousness changes. Until we hold a new
vision of the world.


Millions of Jews die - because the majority of Germans didn't give a damn.

Sad but true.

Pretending that it was just Hilter alone is a cop-out. One madman
can't do anything unless his sickness is resonating with a large
section of his people.



PEOPLE are the goverment, so you have to educate and make the masses start thinking for themselves. Sure most people are sheep but if you can get 1 person to turn off the television and start question things, then the ripple is in effect....

I agree with armitage_vi the change begins with each one of us -
and not abdicating that responsibility by blaming it on the foolish leaders
like blair and Bush - who are simply playing out our deepest beliefs
and fears

This may sound a negative message - but it's actually the opposite.

At the end of the day, blair and Bush have no power. All power belongs
to each and every one of us - as Dave Icke explains in the last chapter
of each of his books - that our collective world, for good or bad
is simply our collective inner beliefs EXTERNAIZED.


However, this does not mean that we are struck with that
reality.


It means that when we can finally recognize that truth, we
are FREE to adopt NEW beliefs - and create new collective realities.


And that thinking is not retarded - it's a more complete way of looking
at the world.


However, it doesn't mean that we turn our back on existing reality -
and not help when we can.

Of course, we try and help. if there is a famine, of course we feed
the people because it is all our past collective beliefs which created
that reality.

But that reality will always remain unless our collective mind-set
changes - so we all have two things to do.

So in the future, keep your insults to yourself. What the hell are you
doing on the davce icke forum if you find it retarding if we are discussing
and trying to understand his ideas??

[armitage_vi]

Icke has used the analogy of the sheep and the dog and the pyramid of power and how REAL control comes NOT from the controllers (few control the many) It's the many!!!

I mean it's really freakin scary in the U.S. right now, people running around with Support our Troops stickers on their cars ,and some people are just scathing if you question or propose a different view. Look at Rosie O'Donnell, all she said this last week was she thought the U.S. and Britain are really trying to play up the current situation for war, then she said I have questions about WTC 7.... QUESTIONS.. All of a sudden people are calling for her to be fired, or that she should be arrested for Treason...

Same thing happened yesterday I was dropping my son off at daycare and I was wearing a "Investigate 9/11" t-shirt, some people were VERY supportive and nodded, at the same time there were people giving me the most scathing looks, like they wanted to just snap my head off. ..

It's not the police or the Feds that are keeping people from speaking out, it's the PEOPLE who are enforcing and attacking anyone who is shaking up and asking questions.....

Sadly as we all become adults and have families people more and more start to conform and will utterly do anything just to fit right in... (The nail that stands out get hit).... Icke has taught me to NEVER back down on my beliefs despite how unpopular or angry they make make people...

So the change starts with you and me, and with us being open and honest and even if 10 people yell at you and say you bat shit crazy, then there's going to be AT LEAST 1 person who is going to say "Hey you're right this doesn't add up" then they tell 10 people ,and so on and so on.....

I personally feel MOST people want change and want to be truly free, BUT they never voice this because they dont want to be that nail that stands out......

[cheeb]

Hello Armitage v1

Thats a difficult decision you had to come to,fair play to you, a bit of a thumbs up and encouragement can make your day so well done.

I liked your avatar of the INVISIBLES, havent seen that in ages, it seemed to stop mid stream in England.
I heard that Grant Morrison stopped it because what he was doing to the bald chap (king?) I cant remember, was reflecting in his own life .

I loved hios stuff on Judge Dredd in the UK nothing like the film with S Stallone but then hollywood ruins brilliant comics.

[seanx]

armitage_vi wrote.

I went through this crisis from 2005 and 2006 when the U.S. Army was telling me I was an Army Desserter because aparently I was recalled to serve in Operation Iraqi: Invasion. They said I has to report or I was a desserter. At that point I had to really ask, Do I do what I think is morally right, or do I go with the system....

In the end I went with my morals and fought it and did not go......

That took REAL courage. Well done.

I remember reading a book by Sean O'Casey about the Irish war of freedom
when he made a very telling but subtle point.

His character reveals that all the young men joined the rebel army -
not just to fight the British - but because most of them were terrified
of what their mates and friends would think of them if they didn't.

It takes amazing fucking courage for you to do what you did - not only
to tell the American Government to go to hell- but - and every man here
will understand this - to have the strenght of character to do what you
think is right, despite what others might think of you.

Deep down mate, I bet even they admire you - you did what they were
afriad to do.

[lottie]

here here amitage!! not that you need my admiration but you have it 100%!! i admire your courage- such a difficult thing to do with so much pressure from peers and society! if only more had their own minds like you!! well done!!! :D

[tinmenace]

Icke has used the analogy of the sheep and the dog and the pyramid of power and how REAL control comes NOT from the controllers (few control the many) It's the many!!!

I mean it's really freakin scary in the U.S. right now, people running around with Support our Troops stickers on their cars ,and some people are just scathing if you question or propose a different view. Look at Rosie O'Donnell, all she said this last week was she thought the U.S. and Britain are really trying to play up the current situation for war, then she said I have questions about WTC 7.... QUESTIONS.. All of a sudden people are calling for her to be fired, or that she should be arrested for Treason...

Same thing happened yesterday I was dropping my son off at daycare and I was wearing a "Investigate 9/11" t-shirt, some people were VERY supportive and nodded, at the same time there were people giving me the most scathing looks, like they wanted to just snap my head off. ..

It's not the police or the Feds that are keeping people from speaking out, it's the PEOPLE who are enforcing and attacking anyone who is shaking up and asking questions.....

Sadly as we all become adults and have families people more and more start to conform and will utterly do anything just to fit right in... (The nail that stands out get hit).... Icke has taught me to NEVER back down on my beliefs despite how unpopular or angry they make make people...

So the change starts with you and me, and with us being open and honest and even if 10 people yell at you and say you bat shit crazy, then there's going to be AT LEAST 1 person who is going to say "Hey you're right this doesn't add up" then they tell 10 people ,and so on and so on.....

I personally feel MOST people want change and want to be truly free, BUT they never voice this because they dont want to be that nail that stands out......

BRAVO!! Very well done indeed!

[armitage_vi]

Hello Armitage v1

Thats a difficult decision you had to come to,fair play to you, a bit of a thumbs up and encouragement can make your day so well done.

I liked your avatar of the INVISIBLES, havent seen that in ages, it seemed to stop mid stream in England.
I heard that Grant Morrison stopped it because what he was doing to the bald chap (king?) I cant remember, was reflecting in his own life .

I loved hios stuff on Judge Dredd in the UK nothing like the film with S Stallone but then hollywood ruins brilliant comics.


Thanks guys and thanks Cheeb, yea the Invisibles is something that I think was a decade ahead of it's time. I went back about 2 years ago and started to read the series again, and much like The Illuminatus Trilogy, The Invisible is something that I go back and read the entire series once a year. It's the ultimate and there's even little mentions of David Icke through out the series...

Grant Morrison is a practicioner of Chaos Magick and he eventually started to turn the book into a sigil of things he wanted to happen in his life, So King Mob became a sort of avatar of the things that he wanted to happen in his life, and he claims that it did, that all the women, reflections ideas he wrote about in the book started to reflect his real life.

It was never really a hit here in the U.S. but I can see why it all of a sudden took at turn for the unpopular, mainly because it started to get really abstract about the nature of reality and consciousness. I think everyone who is a member of this forum would LOVE the series....

Also it's good to hear the words of encouragment some people in my family and in my community thought I was a traitor and was un-patriotic... But David Icke has woken me up as a free infividual, when people say YOU are un American. I just tell them, I don't care I was born on land and that land and culture just happen to be American, so that makes me an American............

[a fine naked fellow]

Real Americans are rich republics and love peace.

[stikmata]

I went back about 2 years ago and started to read the series again, and much like The Illuminatus Trilogy, The Invisible is something that I go back and read the entire series once a year.

same here.

great literature there.


as for wearing an "Investigate 911" shirt... I can't remember who said it, but it was some comedian (i think) who i heard recently say, "Living in Los Angeles, the most controversial thing you could say is 'I LIKE Bush'"... Orange County is very republican though.

[ho1ogram]

I agree, you come to a cross roads where you have to decide to do what you personally feel is morally right, or what the system says it right. I went through this crisis from 2005 and 2006 when the U.S. Army was telling me I was an Army Desserter because aparently I was recalled to serve in Operation Iraqi: Invasion. They said I has to report or I was a desserter. At that point I had to really ask, Do I do what I think is morally right, or do I go with the system....

In the end I went with my morals and fought it and did not go......

G'day armitage_vi
That's awesome, congratulations mate. What you've done resonates around the globe. I'm on the other side of the world and you've warmed my heart.
Cheers :)
h.

[cheeb]

Excellent Cheeb, the only thing I would recommend is not close your mind to possibilities before you've completed the research, because once you find the truth, you'll realize that it's stranger than fiction. Truly!

So, share your progress, and always feel free to ask questions. That's what a learning process is. ;)

well here goes,Ive researched,and researched and researched till ive gone blue in the face, the nearest i can find to any evidence [[[[not shapeshifting]] of lizards being amongst us is from a chap called: taa daa :

Kent Hovind

youll find him on you tube ;Evidence for creationism,dinosaurs and the bible.

I know this thread died because it went round the houses and off topic but the original sentiments were good.

in light of the new topics on disinformation i thought ide give it the kiss of life

I also spent 8 hours of my life with michael tsarion god the symbols and sacred astronomy are everywhere

Then spent the other easter night with Richard Dawkins

Of all three i came to the conclusion that only one has the truth

and that is

richard dawkins ', regardless of richard dawkins,

the answer to the greatest riddle of life didnt turn out to be "42"

but evolution through natural selection

[tinmenace]

Hmm, makes you wonder why the royal families insist on inbreeding.....

[cheeb]

The royal family have only existed in this country since 1066 when william of orange or willian the conquerer invaded uor isles ,the dna would not have had enough time to degrade through interbbreeding though i am aware that haemophillia was a common trait amongst royal bloodlines also male pattern baldness and colour blindness which are situated on the missing part of the
male y chromosome but are present on the female x chromosone

Remember that evolution has taken billions of yaers ,1000 years of royality is but a spit in the cosmic ocean

[tinmenace]

Remember that evolution has taken billions of yaers ,1000 years of royality is but a spit in the cosmic ocean

Yes, evolution in it's natural selection variety which has a varied gene pool. This still doesn't answer the question about why they insist on inbreeding. What is it about their DNA that they don't want diluted?

[cheeb]

Well did you ever bring a boyfreind or girlfeind home only to have dissaproval from your family I suspect the royal family or any other family in the world are no different

the swines.:)

[tinmenace]

Well did you ever bring a boyfreind or girlfeind home only to have dissaproval from your family I suspect the royal family or any other family in the world are no different

the swines.:)

Yeah, but they are terrible! And only bloodline can rule as a monarch. For example, my husband is Swedish, and sometime during their history, for some reason, they didn't have an heir to the throne. You know what they did? They imported one from France. A French King to rule the Swedes. So, it wasn't good enough to have a fine and decent Swedish leader ascend the throne (not like I subscribe to any of that royal crap anyway), but they had to make sure that it was bloodline that ascended the throne.

So, we know it happens, my problem with it all is why?? Why do they insist on it? What is so special about their breeding? Surely they know about the need for genetic variety, I mean they do attend the 'best' schools and all, so we know they're getting the info. And yet they still do it.

[cheeb]

i dont know why they do it.
its got to be counter-productive in the long run
Why did Rochester keep his first wife up in the attic in jayne eyre it didnt make any sense to the rest of the story
Maybe there is no logic to it

[tinmenace]

So, that's it for you? It's just weird and oh well? :D

[cheeb]

No its not just weird,its wonderful ,its magnificent,its awe inspiring,its a pleasure to be part of the human race and i dont care who comes first

[tinmenace]

Ok then. :)

[father ted]

The genes that the royals carry is a major recessive gene, for obvious reasons. It gets diluted very quickly, they don't care about what nationality someone's from, they want the person to have a high concentration of this gene.

[celtic isis]

That's right! Well said. I am reposting some info from a different thread because it pertains to this subject:





And my post thereafter, from the same thread:






tinmenace YOU ROCK!!!:D i need you on my handbag thread lol

[celtic isis]

well to be honest, If someone was banging on at me telling me I am programmed by the very thing I find stimulating, then I would not really pay much attention either....

allow me to dig up that post...



I'm being critical now, when I choose to, not when someone tell me I should.


.. Now here you have someone telling someone they don't know, that they have been spoon fed info that has programmed them?

I also think David Icke is a Very cool person that has DE programmed thousands of people.... basically what this comment really says is...because I share the same views as David Icke ..hence support his work, I am being mentally drugged by him?? Is this comment coming from anyone who respects the laws of freedom and ones right to have his own views?

it sounds like this guy is saying, because one shares the same views as David, its not because David Ickes work makes sense to many people and people can relate to it, according to this post because the view is not there's ...its no good....

the fact is, what is brainwashing??? everything brainwashes you.... anything you hate, you hate it because somewhere along the way you have been brainwashed to hate it... like wise with something you love....

so of course David Icke brainwashed people to an extent, the issue is neutron flux does not like the data he is putting out where others do.

Even if the reptile thing is not correct, what's the harm is people thinking the elite are lizards??, they act like them, so what's the problem?



You do not have to believe this theory, no one is putting a gun to your head, its just despite you think there is a lack of information, there is infact quite allot, not just stories in recent time that have even made the internet mainstream news.... but also old Texts that have been burnt by the church, endless links with reptiles in all religions... and to this day a link with the elite to reptiles.... the people who like David's work are convinced and feel there is enough info about them to create allot of wonder about it.

but while you are eager to see info and evidence, why are you not banging on the doors of Airier 51 and asking why that place does not share the same laws as the USA but is still paid with Tax payers cash? ...if you choose to ignore the HUGE historical link with Reptiles in every religion, culture.... then its your choice, but I guess there are others who are much more interested to get to the bottom of it.



And?? , when has David Icke ever said he has evidence? ..he has simply pointed out that many people speak of this and that HE believes it, and I have personally heard stories nothing to do with David Icke on the same subject... what ever the scenario with it is, it exists... So there is no "official" evidence that Bush is a shape shifter not that Icke has ever announced he thinks he is, I think he thinks he could well be.... but if you do not think there is evidence and its not true, then I don't see anyone banging on your door trying to force you to think its true.... we simply would like to leave the situation open so it can be explored and we would like questions answered. and we are free to have our own judgment on the situation, not because we have been brainwashed but because we choose to except that although after experiencing our years here we feel we have a firm grasp on reality, I don't think most people have, infact I think most have a very little grasp on reality.



No it does not matter, there have been a cover up campaign going on for as long as we know... so 12 years in "this" could quite easily be 12 years in the brainwash you seem to be so concerned of.

I go by life experienced and what I see and feel around me... if anything makes sense within that I go with it. if it does not it normally does not sit long with me.



mmm personally I would assume its real, because I think that there are things in this world that we would find impossible to comprehend and there are also people who rule the world who act like cold blooded lizards.... so even if they don't shape shift and I believe it, im not really in much trouble.

on top of that if you believe something then of course you will assume its real.... are you saying you should not assume something is real that you believe?




I'm extremely important thank you very much, im the centre of the universe, as are you, and everyone else on this forum, anyone who does not understand this are ill informed IMO.

blimey, i need you on my thread too thirdwave, you're too good! :D

[celtic isis]

Yes, evolution in it's natural selection variety which has a varied gene pool. This still doesn't answer the question about why they insist on inbreeding. What is it about their DNA that they don't want diluted?

because...they need to keep their "blue blood" pure, in order to shape shift...

[myeika]

People just assume Icke is nuts, without ever reading any of his books. It's so sad. They won't even just take a look for themselves, and have it covered just in case he is right or has some things of value to say that they could learn from, no instead they just throw it all aside. :confused:

Many years ago I learnt about David Icke and what he was saying….. Back in them days I had ease at understanding most of his stuff, but other stuff was so freaky and didn’t make sense to me, I just cast it aside…………… But still he did what I personally believe his mission is….. He was the catalyst that awakened a thirst for knowledge within me…….To find out what the **** was really going off and why things just didn’t make sense to me!….. I then used to have big debates with myself……. “If he is so spot on with this stuff……how can he be so off with the stuff I find freaky?” For many years it didn’t make sense………. But after all the research I have done, experiences I have had and other information I have read over the years (like its took me about 10 years to feel in so much agreement with him and to confirm to myself what I wasn’t too sure of) I now ‘Know’ with a deep sense of Knowing that this stuff is spot on…………

Its gonna be cool when we evolve into further info/knowing of what we are really capable of doing………….. I have a feeling that many folks will be in disagreement with that too…… until they can expand their understanding and become open to all possibilities…….I get that now with a lot of the stuff I do…….to me it is just a good way of being able to experience life in this matrix, and getting out of it the good stuff…………about time too I would say! Lol.

I used to get frustrated at people who mocked at the stuff David was passing on to us, but not no more, now I have a deeper understanding and I know in time, the right time for them, they will find their own knowing and understand this stuff for sure!

I am no master at any of this…..I have just learnt to go with my knowing and be open, and wonderful things have and are happening in my life. I am not the same ‘person’ as I was 2 years ago, things are moving forward so fast and it is so exciting……………..

Do I believe in David Ick ?

Of course I do…………..He is me…………..he is the brave side of me, which had the opportunity to speak out and be heard and wasn’t frightened to do so…… He inspires me to delve deeper and to help with what all of us (most of us?) on this forum want…………..The biggest awakening world wide ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Celtic said

The problem is the conditioned mind. People need to look at the world from a child's unconditioned point of view if they ever want to understand what's really going on. you have to forget everything you've been led to believe is true already.

This statement is so true…….. conditioning of the mind has been done for so long now, some folks actually believe and feel that the information is going against everything they hold dear, the way they have been brought up, and their parents views of things……it is so hard for some people to view stuff what their parents have told them in another light/reality as they feel like they are going against them (their parents/elders) and this is too difficult right now for some….Personally I don’t think it will be much longer tho, with the way this reality is mapping out right now!
I remember what David said in one of his films………And I agree whole heartedly …… It was something like………..
The time we are experiencing is a very exciting time……and we are the ones who are going to experience and see wonderful stuff happen…………

[aznality]

I'll quote my thoughts from my blog.

I want to discuss this important issue that has been circulating the news today throughout the entire world. I have to speak out the truth concerning this. It is very terrifying if only people understand the reasons behind all these shootings that goes on from time to time. This is extremely insulting for all of us. I feel obliged to express my view, and it is totally up to you what you like to make of it. I really don't care what you think of my opinion, because that is your business. But it would be great if you spend time reading my thoughts, even though you might not agree with what I say.

Regarding the issue that is spinning everywhere now, we are made to believe how the shooter is having a love problem, so he ends up killing his ex, goes on shooting spree, and ultimately commits suicide. That is total bullshit. The media feeds to us the same freakin story everytime. When a mass shooting happens, we are told the killer is a lunatic who shoots everybody in his/her sights for no apparent reason. Then either they end their own life, or the police shoots them dead. Why are they always ending up dead in the end? Because they want to remove the evidence. What evidence, you may ask? Just read on.

If you read the article, the newspaper claims that the gunman shoots dead his ex. Then he goes straight to carrying out a mass murder. Seriously, if he has served his purpose to kill his ex, why would he need to finish off a few more innocent people, then himself? There is no logic behind it. Insanity is the only explanation they give us. I do not buy the story. The guy obviously knew where his ex lived. If he wanted to end her life, he could have easily done it at her home. But why a public area like a university? It was planned there for a simple reason. A university is a crowded place, and that is exactly where the mass assasinate has to occur.

I have been studying these similar cases for a couple of years now. Many researchers have pointed out these mass shooters are not insane like they are made out to be at all. By looking into their past and studying every single information they could find about them, they have lead to the conclusion that these shooters have been brainwashed. That is the reason why they are able to bring themselves into killing so many innocents without any empathy. Same goes for the muslim suicide bombers, by the way. That is their version of the mass shooters in the Arab world.

So who brainwashes these shooters? The government does. There are more powerful ways of brainwashing than we believe that exists. I won't go too deep with that topic, but I just want to say it is possible by creating multiple-personality disorders for an individual. While the main part of them is normal as they can be, the other compartments of their brain is programmed to kill. When that part of the brain is switched on, a new personality totally takes over. The mass slaughter happens. No, this is not fantasy or science fiction. This is reality. Just because we aren't told it is possible, it does not mean it cannot be done. Advanced knowledge about human psychology has been kept from us. If you know very well how the mind works, and apply the correct mind programming, you can literally turn anyone into a killing machine.

You may question now why the government would resort to these extreme circumstances? The reasons are simple. They hate the fact that some civilians have the posession of guns. They believe they are the only ones who deserve the right to own weaponry. They want to have complete domination over us, and to achieve that, you need to take away our guns. So they achieve this by causing a problem, which is to send out assasins every now and then to mass murder people. Of course, you will then get a reaction from the public. Everyone now wants something to be done. They are now put into the state of fear. So ultimately, you suggest a solution to have the guns banned. Everybody is obviously going to agree with that decision after all that fear they are under. This is the problem-reaction-solution method David Icke always talks about by the way. So really what is happening is that they are implementing a solution to the same fucking problem they have conjured up in the first place! That is exactly how they persuade the public to abide by their legislations, which is through FEAR. You know, they honestly do not care about our lives. They are fine with sacrificing a few of us, just to achieve their intended goals in the end.

I was talking about destroying the evidence earlier. Well if you have read all the way up to there, you will understand where I am getting at. If the assasins are not programmed to self-terminate, or if something goes wrong and the assasins do not kill themselves, then they will be brought to justice and they will speak. Some truth is bound to come out. To save the truth from being exposed, they have to kill the lab rat.

I've pretty much written down all my thoughts. Thanks for reading.

[celtic isis]

Many years ago I learnt about David Icke and what he was saying….. Back in them days I had ease at understanding most of his stuff, but other stuff was so freaky and didn’t make sense to me, I just cast it aside…………… But still he did what I personally believe his mission is….. He was the catalyst that awakened a thirst for knowledge within me…….To find out what the **** was really going off and why things just didn’t make sense to me!….. I then used to have big debates with myself……. “If he is so spot on with this stuff……how can he be so off with the stuff I find freaky?” For many years it didn’t make sense………. But after all the research I have done, experiences I have had and other information I have read over the years (like its took me about 10 years to feel in so much agreement with him and to confirm to myself what I wasn’t too sure of) I now ‘Know’ with a deep sense of Knowing that this stuff is spot on…………

Its gonna be cool when we evolve into further info/knowing of what we are really capable of doing………….. I have a feeling that many folks will be in disagreement with that too…… until they can expand their understanding and become open to all possibilities…….I get that now with a lot of the stuff I do…….to me it is just a good way of being able to experience life in this matrix, and getting out of it the good stuff…………about time too I would say! Lol.

I used to get frustrated at people who mocked at the stuff David was passing on to us, but not no more, now I have a deeper understanding and I know in time, the right time for them, they will find their own knowing and understand this stuff for sure!

I am no master at any of this…..I have just learnt to go with my knowing and be open, and wonderful things have and are happening in my life. I am not the same ‘person’ as I was 2 years ago, things are moving forward so fast and it is so exciting……………..

Do I believe in David Ick ?

Of course I do…………..He is me…………..he is the brave side of me, which had the opportunity to speak out and be heard and wasn’t frightened to do so…… He inspires me to delve deeper and to help with what all of us (most of us?) on this forum want…………..The biggest awakening world wide ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Celtic said



This statement is so true…….. conditioning of the mind has been done for so long now, some folks actually believe and feel that the information is going against everything they hold dear, the way they have been brought up, and their parents views of things……it is so hard for some people to view stuff what their parents have told them in another light/reality as they feel like they are going against them (their parents/elders) and this is too difficult right now for some….Personally I don’t think it will be much longer tho, with the way this reality is mapping out right now!
I remember what David said in one of his films………And I agree whole heartedly …… It was something like………..
The time we are experiencing is a very exciting time……and we are the ones who are going to experience and see wonderful stuff happen…………

aww thanks myeika :o you rock too! wish i had more time to talk but i have to run home and get some food lol

take care

xx

[myeika]

Let me ask you this: How do you reach a higher level of consciousness and free yourself from the illusion?

Easy...................

Love and Unity................

:)

[cheeb]

Easy...................

Love and Unity................

:)

and keeping hold of my gun

[myeika]

I'm extremely important thank you very much, im the centre of the universe, as are you, and everyone else on this forum, anyone who does not understand this are ill informed IMO.

And so special too ;)
:D Thank you :D

So many people have a problem understanding this.....!!!!!!!!!!

[tinmenace]

because...they need to keep their "blue blood" pure, in order to shape shift...

That's exactly right! See, you and I think alike in that respect because I'm not satisfied with "well, that's just the way it is...". I need to go further and find the answer to the 'WHY?'. Just like it says in my signature...


tinmenace YOU ROCK!!! i need you on my handbag thread lol

Aw thanks sweetie! :o

[neutron flux]

Easy...................

Love and Unity................



Sounds like entropy to me.....



As for interbreeding there could be 2 *possible* explanations:

1. Psychopathy is genetic, keep it pure so no-one breeds with someone with conscience.

2. Keeping wealth within certain families.

[myeika]

aww thanks myeika :o you rock too! wish i had more time to talk but i have to run home and get some food lol

take care

xx

Thanks...... :D

Hey yeh.... food is important! or Not! ;) lol

xx

[myeika]

Sounds like entropy to me.....


Excuse me?.......

Would you care to expand your thinking on this please?

[neutron flux]

Excuse me?.......

Would you care to expand your thinking on this please?


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "love and unity" but I don't see how that alone will raise your consciousness to a higher level and free yourself from the illusion - thus it seems entropic. Would you expand?

[myeika]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "love and unity" but I don't see how that alone will raise your consciousness to a higher level and free yourself from the illusion - thus it seems entropic. Would you expand?



Hi Neutron….

Maybe I should have said ‘Knowing’, ‘Love’ and ‘Unity’.

For once you ‘know’ that ‘Love’ and ‘Unity’ are all that is, you free yourself from the illusion by being ‘Love and Unity’ – being one – Your vibrations raise – you don’t have to do anything – Then ‘Knowing’ that the reality all around you is just an illusion, you can jump into the sand box and play and learn more and have fun……..and others know that you are different as you give off a different vibration, and others can see the ‘Love and Unity’ shining out from within you….. You don’t have to do anything to make it happen……………….once you ‘Know’ it just happens…..but then you have to stick with it, and don’t give up…..yeh life may get hard and difficult for a time, things might happen that ‘rock’ your world as it was – BIG TIME – as your changing it so much……just by being….. but then it all starts to even out and our time here has more meaning and more purpose with our greater understanding.
Things are not complicated or difficult……you don’t have to master an art or a skill…Look at the basic bottom line, break it down….it sure makes me smile!
The more of us that are able to do this, the greater the knowledge will become available to many more and help them through their own personal transistion…

Sorry I am not good at trying to explain things with the limit on the words we can use to express what we really want to convey. I hope I have made some sense tho!

[tru3]

For once you ‘know’ that ‘Love’ and ‘Unity’ are all that is, you free yourself from the illusion by being ‘Love and Unity’ – being one – Your vibrations raise – you don’t have to do anything – Then ‘Knowing’ that the reality all around you is just an illusion, you can jump into the sand box and play and learn more and have fun……..and others know that you are different as you give off a different vibration, and others can see the ‘Love and Unity’ shining out from within you….. You don’t have to do anything to make it happen……………….once you ‘Know’ it just happens…..but then you have to stick with it, and don’t give up…..yeh life may get hard and difficult for a time, things might happen that ‘rock’ your world as it was – BIG TIME – as your changing it so much……just by being….. but then it all starts to even out and our time here has more meaning and more purpose with our greater understanding.
Things are not complicated or difficult……you don’t have to master an art or a skill…Look at the basic bottom line, break it down….it sure makes me smile!
The more of us that are able to do this, the greater the knowledge will become available to many more and help them through their own personal transistion…

Sorry I am not good at trying to explain things with the limit on the words we can use to express what we really want to convey. I hope I have made some sense tho!

i'd say you're doing all right myieka! :)

in Stillness, the unfolding takes place. our essential Beingness is full and complete, right now. our only 'work' is to live as That, to get out of Our own way, and use the mind only when We call upon it in service to the Divine.

otherwise, let it squawk! :D

[zircon]

Just thought I'd add my thoughts. As far as I can see, David is sincere about what he is doing and has revealed his most intimate self before the world in a way that most of us would never do; opening himself to extraordinary ridicule. His ideas seem far-fetched and most cannot be proved in a conventional sense. Intuitively though many of them feel possible, our minds resist them or involve the risk of credulousness (The same could be said to be true of most beliefs). David has - like some other people before - pointed out that from a innate and silent awareness of ourself, we can separate our senses bombarded by all the outside symbolism and cluttering madness of "reality", and connect with a pure and powerful light inside. From that position we still cannot prove what he says, but we can "know" something about the vibrational levels of the material world. From there, we can return, changed somewhat in ourselves, to view the cosmos from the stars, solar system, time, "history", life on Earth, all the way to what we feel about other people, our reflection in a mirror or the strange way that we interact with nature and places, in a fresh and more sensitive way. From there we can discover that human life on Earth is an illusionary system of signs, that we live inside language and other means of communication that help us and also imprison us. When we look into the eyes of others, we look into people who are to a greater or lesser extent imprisoned. Thus we try to experience a deep sense of freedom and to share that. In my view this is also what david has been saying; and his view that some people are trapped in a vibration that is manipulated by "alien" energy does not mean that they are not human at all, far from it, but that they are more trapped than they need to be. Our hope lies in connecting to the side of our DNA that can resist such manipulation. Just as the body naturally rejects physical toxins, so can it - by being in touch with its true nature - reject the projected toxins that infest our spiritual world. I think David's long journey of "sacrifice" displays in a most graphic and deeply moving way, what the elements of that journey in today's world are, it teaches us that truth, while we might not choose to read everything literally or fall into yet another trap.

[myeika]

i'd say you're doing all right myieka! :)
:D


Thank you :)

[zircon]

Another thing, I personally feel, is that david is right that the more in touch with light forces we are, these dark forces become more "visible". Light dispells the darkness. But darkness closes in unless we switch on the light from inside. So for me, what is meant, is, the "reptilian entities" are not so much, that you go out one day and see a reptile walking down the street; but, that we feel the darkness closing in and that darkness has the quality of something cold and unfeeling. The inside-the-box thinking of the mind process that tends to manipulate and abuse, and seek its own ego-drive fulfilment and trample on others, is filled with darkness. And I can agree that when we are in tune with light from inside, those vibrations become "visible" - perceptible to us as something really physical (in other words we see the physical as it really is when this darkness has a grip). That darkness is consciously and unconsciously controlled to prolong its destiny. So, yes, I can agree that there are people on this Earth who are behind evil things, involved in their prolongation and deliberate maintenance, and that behind them there is a force that has been mistaken for another thing, that it is deliberately hidden or even portrayed as something good; that it is occulted so that people think that by learning mysteries or entering a brotherhood of some sort, they are being sold access to great truths and ideals, when in fact they are being entrapped and lied to. So that darkness is clothed in shining clothes, to deceive us. But the inner light will allow you to see through that covering. Have I seen "reptilians"? Yes, I have, and felt them and heard them, too.

[neutron flux]

For once you ‘know’ that ‘Love’ and ‘Unity’ are all that is, you free yourself from the illusion by being ‘Love and Unity’ – being one – Your vibrations raise – you don’t have to do anything –

Am I missing something here? Love and unity are not all there is especially at this density level - and just "knowing" this rather simple understanding doesn't seem to "free" you from anything (tell the kids of Sudan that knowing that love and unity is all there is, and maybe that the raping, slavery and child labour won't seem so bad anymore.) You don't have to do anything? That's entropy right there - just sit and do nothing and you'll become spiritually evolved.

Good luck with that. :)

[mada88]

About the law of attraction. The body is made up of cells (cell-battery) and the body has a circuit board. And it has a pulse from the heart which is like a current. So as the matrix says humans are batteries. With that a battery creates a electro magnetic field lol. So humans are like big magnets lol So maybe the LOA is happening.

[myeika]

Am I missing something here?

I would say so yes......

Just 'be' in Love and Unity.....Things happen then!

Good luck with that. :)

Thank you, to me its not a matter of luck tho!

Knowing isn't luck....

As I said, I sometimes find it very difficult to convay what I am trying to say with the limits of the human language. I am sorry that you are not able understand no comprehend, what I am saying/meaning, thats why many of us, imho, leave it to people like David to do the major talking/explaining! Cause believe me, if I was able to convay with words etc like David and others do I would be out doing the exact same thing as what they have done. I do it where I live! Oh and I have had fun! a small village in the middle of a forest.....a local gathering point....I tell you what if I had a pound for everytime someone in the early days thought of me as a nutter, I would be megga well off now! But something even better than that happened for me, somehow I was able to get the message over, and their interest got nudged, and some of these people no longer look at me in the same light, they come tell me of all the 'stuff' they have found their selves, and ask my thoughts on it....So I must be doing it right somehow!

I feel that this is going a little OT here tho....

David Icke rocks, and when I see him I will shake his hand and thank him from the bottom of my heart for what he has done for us all.....

[seanx]

I can't remember who wrote this... but it sums it all up.


'Do not make the realm of the relative real.

Wake up!

It is a created reality 'you' and 'I' have devised and
continue to devise, moment-by-moment in order that we may
know ourselves experientially...

yet the creation can SEEM so REAL. It's purpose is to seem
so real, that we accept it as truly existing'.

[neutron flux]

As I said, I sometimes find it very difficult to convay what I am trying to say with the limits of the human language. I am sorry that you are not able understand no comprehend, what I am saying/meaning, thats why many of us, imho, leave it to people like David to do the major talking/explaining!

Wouldn't it be logical to assume that you don't understand? I mean if Icke can understand and convey using human language then what's prohibiting you? Isn't that the litmus test of knowing? :confused:

[chester]

There can be no litmus test of knowing. How can words ever do better than point to the undescribable, ineffible (and not even that).

Some are better at verbally constructing pointers. This does not preclude them from having conscious experiences which could be subjectively termed as "knowing."

In addition, satori (as it is referred to by some) can occur when that which cannot be defined and your own consciousness connect. It can be a brief but powerful experince, it can be a long slow, roller coaster... it can be mixed. It can happen in spurts and then never happen again. But those who experience various forms of satori, generally never forget and in many cases enter into a new way of seeing the world. And it is never able to be litmus tested nor described.

Again, it can be pointed to via words, pictures, things like numerology. Tarot, astrology, psychotherapy (even) or sacred geometry, etc.

[chester]

Am I missing something here? Love and unity are not all there is especially at this density level - and just "knowing" this rather simple understanding doesn't seem to "free" you from anything (tell the kids of Sudan that knowing that love and unity is all there is, and maybe that the raping, slavery and child labour won't seem so bad anymore.) You don't have to do anything? That's entropy right there - just sit and do nothing and you'll become spiritually evolved.

Good luck with that. :)

Still - very good points. I may have missed the context of "knowing" that was represented in the last few entries. Apologies if so.

In fact, what has been the result of several satoris for me is that I have jumped back into this world anything but entrophied. And perhaps, you can't. (At least I cannot see how someone can). Once you cross over a few major rivers, there is no going back. The red pill can never be unswallowed. Morpheus: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.

Again, apologies Neutron Flux