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deldaley
06-03-2008, 01:48 PM
just more information for them to loose on a lap top again !!!!!!!

Teachers and nurses among millions of public sector workers targeted first by ID cards

Millions of public sector workers, including teachers and nurses, could be the first in Britain forced to carry controversial ID cards.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith today said she wanted a "universal" scheme, with a national roll out by 2017.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_01/idcardDM0503_468x435.jpg

Among the first groups to be targeted for compulsory cards will be those in positions of trust - starting with airport workers next year.

The Home Secretary said this group could then be extended to Olympics staff, power station workers snd even teachers, nurses and care home workers.

Compulsion for these groups was a matter of ongoing discussion, she told the influential Demos think tank in a speech this morning.



Critics are now urging the Government to ditch ID cards completely after plans to make them compulsory for all British citizens were ditched

She confirmed people applying for passports would not now have to enter their details on the new ID cards database until the end of 2011 or 2012 - a delay of two years.

People will also have the choice of taking only a passport, although their details will still go on the database.

Miss Smith claimed the overall cost of the scheme would fall by one billion, to £4.5 billion, and that it would work faster.

She said: "The way we are now approaching the scheme will lead to a significantly quicker take-up of its benefits.

"One of the strengths of this choice is that now people will be able to get a card when they want, rather than wait until they renew their passport.

"This means that we can now aim to achieve full roll-out by 2017 - two years ahead of previous plans."

In a speech in central London to the think-tank Demos, the Home Secretary predicted a future in which British people would voluntarily enrol for the cards - which carry their details and fingerprints in a microchip - because doing so would make their lives easier.

She said checks by the Criminal Records Bureau for teachers, some nurses and carers could be trimmed from four weeks to just four days for card-holders.

Ms Smith said: "It is inconceivable in today's world that someone should not have a single, safe way of securing and verifying their identity."

Rather than having to carry a range of utility bills, passport and other documents to prove one's identity, there would be huge benefits to possessing a single ID card, she claimed.

And she added: "If anything, I think it will actually make it easier to retain your privacy."



Home Secretary Jacqui Smith claims the cards will help protect people's personal details and combat fraud
Former Prime Minister Tony Blair had said a bill making ID cards compulsory would be a major part of Labour's next election manifesto.

But British citizens, apart from those in "sensitive" jobs, who are enrolled on the National Identity Register will now be able to choose whether to have a passport or an ID card or both.

Outlining a new, gradual introduction of the project, Ms Smith said that all non-EU migrants would be asked to apply for the cards as of this November.

Categories most at risk of abuse, including those seeking to enter the UK, stay here as a student or via a marriage visa would be targeted first, she explained.

Then next year, the scheme will be extended to UK citizens, starting with "people working in positions of trust", including 100,000 airport workers and possibly security workers at the London Olympics.

Airports, which already carry out strict security checks on employees, are expected to have to meet the £3 million cost themselves.

A year later, youngsters opening bank accounts or taking out student loans will be asked to apply for cards, meaning many parents will end up footing the bill.

During that same year, the scheme will be opened to voluntary applicants of any age.

From 2011/12, all passport applicants will also be registered on the scheme as they apply for the new biometric passports containing fingerprints.

Critics immediately slammed the plans to introduce the controversial cards gradually, with the Tories claiming the Government was working "by stealth".

Shadow home secretary David Davis declared that it was "inconceivable" that the public sector workers would not already have full ID verification.

He said: "Therefore the question has to be will this add to airport security or is it a way of getting the British public used to an ID card by stealth - despite an explicit promise from a former home secretary that this programme would not be rolled out in a compulsory fashion without a vote in the House of Commons."

The Government had previously planned to make everyone have an ID card in addition to a passport by January 2010.

Its climbdown follows a series of data loss scandals and the Tories now claim Ms Smith should "get real" and ditch the policy completely.

Mr Davis said today: "The National Identity Register, which will contain dozens of personal details of every adult in this country in one place, will be a severe threat to our security and a real target for criminals, hackers and terrorists.

"This is before you take the Government's legendary inability to handle people's data securely into account.

"Serial scandals of loss of data have destroyed people's belief in this white elephant, while major commercial companies clearly have no confidence in the project."

He added: "Jacqui Smith should ditch the bluster and own up to the reality that this project is as far away from fruition as it has ever been."

Shadow immigration minister Damian Green added: "The Government is continuing to blunder on with the ID card scheme, even in a case like this where it will provide little extra security at great cost to the industry concerned.

"The Home Secretary really should get real and give up on ID cards."

And shadow attorney general Dominic Grieve immediately rejected claim that the cards would make life easier.

"That's nonsense because the card itself will only have limited access to the information on it for those outside the state security system so those cards would be readily forgeable in a way to mislead a member of the public as to who somebody's identity is," he told the BBC.

"So I don't think these cards are going to be of very much value to individuals to prove their own identity at all and if they do start being accepted in that way then I think there is a serious danger that they will be forged and used as forgeries to mislead people."

Critics are already claiming that the extra expense to the aviation industry due to their workers being forced to apply for the cards is likely to be passed on to passengers.

Neil Pakey, chairman of the Airport Operators Association, said ID cards could potentially strengthen an "already robust" aviation security scheme.

But he warned that the Government must make sure the new arrangements did not duplicate existing processes and made background checks quicker and more efficient.

He said: "Airport operators would incur extra costs in implementing this scheme, which would need to be balanced by the benefits delivered."

No explanation has yet been given for the delay to the overall project, although opponents have pointed to concerns over its cost and whether the technology will work.

Plans to include iris scans have been shelved, with only fingerprints and facial scans now likely to be included on a national ID cards database.

adzboarder
06-03-2008, 04:36 PM
I wont be getting one, fuck 'em - this is NOT Nazi Germany.

gremlin
06-03-2008, 05:39 PM
i have a driving license and a passport i am not having another one, no way, they can f*** **f

jim fear
06-03-2008, 05:47 PM
A lot of people are saying " I'm not getting an I.D card!" but when push comes to shove how many people will stand their ground? Specially when they start making life difficult for those without them.

paganus
06-03-2008, 08:30 PM
from November,all immigrants to the UK will be issued a compulsory I.D card.

numbersix
06-03-2008, 08:47 PM
I have not been asked to prove who I am in more than five years !!!!

I will never have an ID card - I know who I am.......My friends and family know who I am....

There is ALREADY SUFFICIENT ID - passport/license/birth cert which contains our unique signature and a photo

As David says this is will ultimately lead to us all being microchipped like a herd of animals...

The government can get lost...

I have already written to my MP protesting about ID cards and have signed the online petition NO2ID at this site - http://www.no2id.net/

They dont have enough room in their prisons for us all...

craven dark
06-03-2008, 08:53 PM
I've got no intention of getting an I.D. card, i have'nt got a passport or a driving licence, i've no intention of getting either.
I'm off the grid as much as i can and intend to stay that way.

raul bloodworth
06-03-2008, 08:55 PM
http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1617629_chencarddees.jpg

ennui
06-03-2008, 09:18 PM
[rant mode on]

I was having a private conversation with someone about the ID cards and chips in passports today and one of my colleagues butted in with "If you've done nothing wrong then why does it matter!" She then said she didn't believe that there was antennas on passports so I told her to look on the home office website cos' it says it there. I asked her if she trusted our government and told her that the Jews in Germany in the 30s probably did too.

She just told me she wasn't interested. That just about sums it up! GRRR made me soooo angry. Why butt into my conversation is she's not interested?

She did the same thing when I was having a private conversation with someone about Common Purpose. People like that make me want to hit my head on a brick wall.

[/rant mode off]

Seriously though, what do you do with people like that?

bones
06-03-2008, 10:21 PM
DONT GET AN ID CARD AND DONT BE FORCED TO HAVE ONE. REFUSE AND TELL EM TO FUCK OFF!!! I WILL NOT BE A SLAVE TO THIS NAZI NWO CRAP!!!

IF SOMEONE SAYS IF YOU AINT GOT NOWT TO HIDE WHY NOT?

TELL EM THE JEWS SAID THE SAME THING BACK IN THE 1930s ONWARDS.

AND WHAT HAPPENED TO ALOT OF THEM?

adzboarder
06-03-2008, 10:46 PM
Ah the old chesnut, if you have got nothing to hide you have got nothing to fear - arrghhh

If you have got nothing to hide show me whats in your pockets, let me come to your house at 4am, smash the door down and search through everything, search you, your wife, your children. Have a good old root around in your financial records, your computer, your medical ailments, your pension - well, if you have got nothing to hide whats the problem?

Oh and Gordon, if you have nothing to hide, mind if I have a good look round number 10? that goes for you two your majesty, if you have nothing to hide WHATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM??

largejack
06-03-2008, 11:12 PM
If people have nothing to hide, then why the fuck do they want an ID card? Are they looking for brownie points or something or arse lick some political correct politician. Would they want cameras in their house because they have nothing to hide? They probably would. hey look at me! I'm the perfect sycophant, please spy on me to tell the state how perfect a citizen I am.

Come on, these people need to stop using this highly annoying cliche and wake up!!!!

free_soul
06-03-2008, 11:37 PM
so what will happen if i refuse?????

grenadene
06-03-2008, 11:49 PM
Never, no way, not a chance.... and if forced i'll scream my head off!!! :mad:

raffles
07-03-2008, 01:25 AM
I've got no intention of getting an I.D. card, i have'nt got a passport or a driving licence, i've no intention of getting either.
I'm off the grid as much as i can and intend to stay that way.

Same here mate, i've no intention any getting any of the above, and like yourself im very much off the grid as i could be.

niftygifter
07-03-2008, 06:45 AM
Very interesting Sky News presentation on it last night:mad:
Interviewed all white people saying they thought it was a good thing, then finally went to a coloured girl who said it would be an invasion of privacy.
So bloody subtle but so very clever:mad:

Its also VERY interesting that recently a few of the OLD agendas have come back to the fore, including Fluoride, ID's etc. These are the policies of Blair and is it coincidental that Christopher Story has just reported that Blair is working back in No.10. It also reports that Gordon Brown has two advisors working closely with him. Perhaps Mr Brown cant cope with the demands of the Puppet Masters?

Seems like Billy Liar is back in Town and running the show:cool:

As I posted before, what a fantastic opportunity to arrest a War criminal and Mass Murderer;)

Latest Story Report here for anyone interested: http://www.worldreports.org/news/125_operation_double-cross_hillary_and_eva_teleki

Nifty:cool:

godspeed
07-03-2008, 04:41 PM
what a load of dumb nuts going about these daze....if you've nothing to hide whats that about....thats like saying if you've something to hide and dont get id....thought crimes aint it.......well i downright refuse to get invovled with history repeating itself....lest we forget what happend in europa in 1933 on....no natzi's

adzboarder
07-03-2008, 05:56 PM
If people have nothing to hide, then why the fuck do they want an ID card? Are they looking for brownie points or something or arse lick some political correct politician. Would they want cameras in their house because they have nothing to hide? They probably would. hey look at me! I'm the perfect sycophant, please spy on me to tell the state how perfect a citizen I am.

Come on, these people need to stop using this highly annoying cliche and wake up!!!!


Indeed and any self-respecting terrorist can go along to the home office and get himself an ID card and then go to an airport, check in with said ID card and blow the place up anyway. This is no detterent against terrorism.

In fact, I will tell the government precisely how to stop terrorism and that is by asking Mi5 to stop planting bombs.

tootrue
07-03-2008, 09:10 PM
so what will happen if i refuse?????

It sounds like an old television advert for a two-in-one shampoo and conditioner: "Take a pocketful of notes and coins to the shops? Not me - I just wave and go." But that could very well be the future of shopping if the new wave of cashless payment systems takes off.

Why cash is doomed (http://money.uk.msn.com/creditcards/articles/article.aspx?cp-documentid=7690809)

tootrue
07-03-2008, 09:13 PM
In fact, I will tell the government precisely how to stop terrorism and that is by asking Mi5 to stop planting bombs.

couldn't have said it better :D

niftygifter
08-03-2008, 07:04 AM
Indeed and any self-respecting terrorist can go along to the home office and get himself an ID card and then go to an airport, check in with said ID card and blow the place up anyway. This is no detterent against terrorism.

In fact, I will tell the government precisely how to stop terrorism and that is by asking Mi5 to stop planting bombs.

Spot on Adz, thats a cracking point that should be turned around on them:rolleyes:
That will wake up the sheep if you bring those nasty terrorists into play.


Nifty:cool:

tootrue
08-03-2008, 08:18 AM
Spot on Adz, thats a cracking point that should be turned around on them:rolleyes:
That will wake up the sheep if you bring those nasty terrorists into play.


Nifty:cool:

presumably medical history would go on the id cards as well - The NHS Big Brother database (http://www.nhsconfidentiality.org/?page_id=3)

hagbard_celine
08-03-2008, 08:54 AM
I wont be getting one, fuck 'em - this is NOT Nazi Germany.


I'm one of those health workers and I ain't having one! I'd rather be sacked!:mad::mad:

hagbard_celine
08-03-2008, 08:55 AM
so what will happen if i refuse?????


If enough people refuse the system will break down, like it did with the Poll Tax. We'll be OK if we stick together.

hagbard_celine
08-03-2008, 09:00 AM
from November,all immigrants to the UK will be issued a compulsory I.D card.


Ah ha! What a blatent example of Problem-Reaction-Solution!:cool:

The media have been stirring us up into a frenzy over asylum-seekers these last few years, and now the call goes out: "Something must be done! This can't go on! What are they going to do about it!" They did exactly the same thing with New Age Travellers a few years ago to get people to support the Criminal Justice Bill.

You can bet that if they ever get us all under the ID card system then you won't hear another word in the papers about asylum-seekers.

tootrue
08-03-2008, 10:14 AM
If enough people refuse the system will break down, like it did with the Poll Tax.

definitely!!

saab1981
08-03-2008, 12:00 PM
The whole idea of it disgusts me, and it may even be a pre-cursor to eventual micro-chipping. I hate the government's softly-softly approach towards us getting ID cards too, it feels fake.

ennui
08-03-2008, 03:01 PM
Interesting article in the Telegraph. People are starting to question what's going on which is a good thing, although at the moment their still in the dark as to the true motive. We need to get the word around and wake people up.

'If you don't like your job, don't strike. You just go in every day and do it kinda half-assed - that's the American way." Homer Simpson's wise words came back to me this week when I read about the Government's "clarification" of its position on ID cards. Its position is: we've failed to make the case, so we're only going to do it slightly. The question that nags is: why do they want to do it at all?

I find myself nursing a conspiracy theory: the reason for the fanatical determination to push this through is that the Government is a victim of producer capture. Every couple of years, we pay mind-mangling amounts of our money to enormous technology companies to build computer systems for medical records or criminal records or social security or what have you.

A portable iris scanner: Is there a sensible reason for ID cards?
The dismal record on state IT procurement suggests that we might do well to triple official estimates

And more or less every time, the company concerned makes a complete hash of it. And more or less every time, the only people to whom the Government can turn to fix said hash are the people who cocked it up in the first place.

So at some point, one or other of these companies turns round to the Government and says: we're about to go bust. At present, you have a botched system. But if you let us go bust, you will have a botched system with no technical support - and then you really will be stuffed. So we need you to think of a very lucrative new contract to give us: some vast boondoggle like, say, a national identity register…

In this respect, IT procurement resembles primitive religion. Tribal elders, trembling with awe, approach feared witch-doctor. Here, they say, is an enormous package containing the shiniest rocks we have been able to dig out of this here hill, some top-quality drugs and a baker's dozen of the village's most nubile virgins for you to have your wicked witch-doctoring way with. Good, says the witch-doctor. Now, I shall burn this corn dolly as an offering to the gods, and they shall bless the harvest.

Six months on, the crops fail anyway, and the village elders return to the witch-doctor. We are starving to death, they say, and we are most peeved on account of having no crops, and no drugs, and no shiny rocks or nubile virgins neither. What giveth?

And the witch-doctor says: this is what you get if you do it on the cheap. The gods are exceedingly angry with you. The only way to fix the situation is to burn a much, much bigger corn dolly. And this is going to cost you, be warned, a whole bunch more drugs and shiny rocks - and, while you're at it, virgins. And the villagers, in fear and trembling, set about it.

I admit I have no evidence whatsoever that such idiotic reasoning lies behind the crime-fighting, "turr"-defeating, migrant-exposing, citizen-enabling identity database that the Government is hellbent on creating. But I nurse this theory exactly because of the lack of evidence. In the absence of a half-convincing argument from ministers, I can't come up with a more plausible explanation for why the Government supports it. Mostly, governments want to do things that are popular, cheap and effective - or, at least, that can be sold to the public as such.

A national identity database is - on all the evidence we have - extremely unpopular. A Home Office Minister, Beverley Hughes, admitted to Parliament only under duress that the Government's consultation exercise on what it was then, insultingly, calling an "entitlement card" had been overwhelmingly against the scheme.

It will be extraordinarily expensive. Nobody disputes this - and the dismal record on state IT procurement suggests that we might do well to double or triple the official estimates of how expensive.

And it will, regardless of the issues of principle, be deeply ineffective. The then Home Secretary told Parliament in 2004: "It is important that we do not pretend that an entitlement card would be an overwhelming factor in combating international terrorism." The Government's record on data security - remember the 25 million child benefit claimants whose unencrypted personal details were lost in the post - is rubbish. Its record on data accuracy is worse. The Home Office admits that 500,000 entries on the existing DNA database are wrong. So far, there are only four million names on that database - meaning that, yessiree, fully one eighth of the data is corrupt. In general, the bigger the database, the bigger the degree of inaccuracy, and our population is 15 times the size of that sample.

So that's why I reckon there must be some cynical calculation going on. The alternative would be truly crazy. It would be to conclude that this Government is sailing on, against all the evidence, with a theological conviction that the high road to the best of all possible worlds is a big state and a bank of shiny computers.?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/03/08/do0804.xml

hagbard_celine
10-03-2008, 04:22 PM
The whole idea of it disgusts me, and it may even be a pre-cursor to eventual micro-chipping. I hate the government's softly-softly approach towards us getting ID cards too, it feels fake.


If the govt want to implement a policy that the public supports they’ll say they’re doing their duty by bowing to the will of the people. If they want to introduce a policy that the public does not support they will say “Fuck the will of the people!” and implement it behind our backs by skullduggery and manipulation. I can't think of a better example of the latter than the ID cards agenda.

And it definitely is a stepping stone towards microchipping. See Aaron Russo's interview.

My trade union, Unison, has asked me to write an article on this in their newsletter. I'll let you know how it goes.

hagbard_celine
10-03-2008, 04:24 PM
Interesting article in the Telegraph. People are starting to question what's going on which is a good thing, although at the moment their still in the dark as to the true motive. We need to get the word around and wake people up.

If the Telegraph readers are suspicious then that's a very good sign. the Telegraph is one of the most reactionary and subservient papers in the entire media.

adzboarder
10-03-2008, 11:01 PM
If enough people refuse the system will break down, like it did with the Poll Tax. We'll be OK if we stick together.

Seconded. I'm with you.

free_soul
11-03-2008, 09:45 PM
Personaly i dont mind having an I.D card infact i have one (i look too young to get served lol)
The it that bothers me is the bio chip.

Hell if your a terrorist because you refuse to give out the information they want then
"come and get me boys!!!!" lol

also this has Hitlers Germany all over it, if im not mistaken then wasnt one of the things within hitlers germany was to be stopped and have an ID check at anytime???? If not then you was arrested as you was an enemy of the state???

angelicangel
11-03-2008, 09:56 PM
Hiya FS.
O totally agree with what you are saying, not that I need to show my age,:D:D But if you haven't anything to hide why worry, myself I don't think with this government we have much say in the matter anyway.
:D

adzboarder
12-03-2008, 02:34 PM
Hiya FS.
O totally agree with what you are saying, not that I need to show my age,:D:D But if you haven't anything to hide why worry, myself I don't think with this government we have much say in the matter anyway.
:D

Fucks sakes Angelic, if you have got nothing to hide show me whats in your pockets, let me come to your house at 4am, smash the door down and search through everything, search you, your partner, your children. Have a good old root around in your financial records, your computer, your medical ailments, your pension - well, if you have got nothing to hide whats the problem?

Please dont ever use that media bullshit "if you have nothing to hide" - you should be free to go about your business without having to show your ID card every 2 minutes and its not about hiding fuck all, it's about PERSONAL PRIVACY.

angelicangel
12-03-2008, 03:24 PM
Fucks sakes Angelic, if you have got nothing to hide show me whats in your pockets, let me come to your house at 4am, smash the door down and search through everything, search you, your partner, your children. Have a good old root around in your financial records, your computer, your medical ailments, your pension - well, if you have got nothing to hide whats the problem?

Please dont ever use that media bullshit "if you have nothing to hide" - you should be free to go about your business without having to show your ID card every 2 minutes and its not about hiding fuck all, it's about PERSONAL PRIVACY.
Now now calm down:D I was only expressing my own thoughts about the matter, no I wouldn't want the things you said happening to my family nor myself. But what have us people got to do to stop this kind of thing happening. Let's face it with todays population there would only be a certain amount who would back you, the others would be goody goody's who would let everything go over their heads. What happened to the fight in these people, we now have to be ruled, take the Budget that is on now, how can us genuine people survive with a government like we've got.:D

hagbard_celine
12-03-2008, 05:28 PM
Personaly i dont mind having an I.D card infact i have one (i look too young to get served lol)
The it that bothers me is the bio chip.



Unfortunately, the card is a step towards the bio-chip. If you accept the card you'll be enterted onto the database that will eventually be used for the chip. By challenging the car you'll make sure the choip can never come to pass because without the initial database the chip will be useless.

hagbard_celine
12-03-2008, 05:30 PM
Here's a draft of the short spot Im doing for the Unison newletter. the branch chair has told me that I can adapt it into a longer peice if necessary. I hope you guys approve; if you lot like it i'll know it's good!:

If the government want to implement a policy that the public supports they’ll say they’re doing their duty by bowing to the will of the people. If they want to introduce a policy that the public does not support they will pour contempt on the will of the people and implement it behind our backs by skullduggery and manipulation. A few months ago I had to give my daughter's school an angry phone-call because they were trying to take her fingerprints for the new electronic library database, and they weren't even going to ask the parents' permission! They’re so transparent: Get the next generation used to a culture of constant surveillance and no civil liberties. Is it just me or is the world becoming like the setting of George Orwell's book 1984? All healthcare staff have to wear an ID badge with a barcode on it, as if we're products not people, and now we’re being fast-tracked into the National ID card scheme (Airport staff are also named) As always they're using the excuse of "security" and getting their media cronies like Rupert Murdoch to publish such fear-mongering material that I'm surprised that I can step outside my front door because my neighbour is probably a paedophile, Avian flu-infected, ASBO-toting terrorist asylum-seeker! I will never enroll in the NID card scheme and I urge all NHS staff to do the same. The Poll Tax was brought down through mass-non-cooperation; let’s make history repeat itself!

adzboarder
12-03-2008, 05:42 PM
Now now calm down:D I was only expressing my own thoughts about the matter, no I wouldn't want the things you said happening to my family nor myself. But what have us people got to do to stop this kind of thing happening. Let's face it with todays population there would only be a certain amount who would back you, the others would be goody goody's who would let everything go over their heads. What happened to the fight in these people, we now have to be ruled, take the Budget that is on now, how can us genuine people survive with a government like we've got.:D

I'm sorry Angelic, I think I may have over-reacted.

I am just getting sick and tired of hearing that fucking mantra trotted out over and over again and I was stunned to hear it from a DI member and I took it all out on you, so my apologies.

angelicangel
12-03-2008, 08:41 PM
I except your apology, I don't mean to upset anybody so lets stay friends and be happy together.:D

adzboarder
12-03-2008, 10:24 PM
Ok man, glad we got it sorted. Hugs :D