Founding Fathers of the United States of America

[analog]

Were the Founding Fathers of the United States good guys or bad guys?, On one hand you have many in the "Patriot Movement" in the United States that idolise them and on the other Hand you have others like David who believe that they were Illuminati.


What do you Think?



How about Ron Paul is he legit?

[cruise4]

Something like 80% of them were freemasons and those in control continued to be dominated by masons. Hard to believe though it is, it seems to have been one grand plan from the get go. And not just in America.

[eternal_spirit]

I am amazed at the modern American mind, who’s been brainwashed with really fictional propaganda in school and its history comes from Hollywood; and they never read their Founding Fathers’ books or letters for themselves. They read about them by some modern author, but they won’t read anything by these people for themselves. If they did, they’d find out that Franklin and Thomas Jefferson talked about this being the nucleus. They hoped for a Federated world, a world system, ultimately; ultimately through different phases, ultimately to be led by a council of twelve wise men—all high Freemasonry, all high occultic Masonry.

[analog]

I am amazed at the modern American mind, who’s been brainwashed with really fictional propaganda in school and its history comes from Hollywood; and they never read their Founding Fathers’ books or letters for themselves. They read about them by some modern author, but they won’t read anything by these people for themselves. If they did, they’d find out that Franklin and Thomas Jefferson talked about this being the nucleus. They hoped for a Federated world, a world system, ultimately; ultimately through different phases, ultimately to be led by a council of twelve wise men—all high Freemasonry, all high occultic Masonry.



If so why did they write up The Constitution, Bill of Rights and Decleration of Independence?.


Why did they talk about personal Liberty so much?, Why do people like Alex Jones and Jeff Rence allways refer to them.


What realy were there True intentions?.


What about a guy like Thomas Paine, he was quite a radical for his time and was supposedly a man of the people.

[shellygurrrl]

It is my opinion the founding fathers attempted something real and it came out... edited.

[shellygurrrl]

If so why did they write up The Constitution, Bill of Rights and Decleration of Independence?.


Why did they talk about personal Liberty so much?, Why do people like Alex Jones and Jeff Rence allways refer to them.


What realy were there True intentions?.


What about a guy like Thomas Paine, he was quite a radical for his time and was supposedly a man of the people.
The Founding Fathers believed in self government. Small government. Personal liberty and self-owned land.

[madthumbs]

White nationalist patriotism. I live in the USA, and I'm disgusted with it. Alex Jones and Jeff Rense are counter productive. The history we're fed is BS.

I'm also very pale skinned and have blue eyes. Call me a self hater.

The Real Founding Fathers (http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6562)

[cruise4]

"Alex Jones and Jeff Rense are counter productive"

In their shoes what would you be telling people madthumbs?

"The Founding Fathers believed in self government. Small government. Personal liberty and self-owned land."

Thats certainly what they wanted the people to believe. Whether its what they believed I think deserves examination.

[analog]

Alot of Americans and evan non-Americans refer to the "Founding Fathers" as if it was a unified group but infact they were quite devided, for example you had a Conflict between the "Jeffersonians" and the "Hamiltonians".

So maybe they all had diffrent intentions.


Benjemin Franklin is an interesting character some have suggested that he was a double agent working for the Crown of Britain, what are you thoughts on this?.
He was also a member of a secret society called the "Hellfire Club".


what are your thoughts on the Articles of Confederation, The US Constitution, Bill of Rights, Decleration of Independence, Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers?.


Do you think anything will change if Ron Paul is elected President?, is that evan possible?.

[thelonious]

Some of the founders were Masons, others were not. Freemasonry, especially at that time, was sort of a social club for Enlightenment thinkers, so even those founders who were not Masons held basically the same views.

Washington was a Mason, and Past Master of Alexandria Lodge in Virginia. Benjamin Franklin served as Provincial Grand Master of Masons in Pennsylvania, and Paul Revere served as Masonic Grand Master in Massachusetts.

Jefferson was not a Mason, but held to the same democratic ideals and universalistic theology that characterized Freemasonry at that period.

[zedd]

Even if you want to believe that, yet again, everyone who might be doing something positive is really one of the bad guys working against you (The only pure one)...they let the cat out of the bag. They gave us ideas about liberty and freedom and overthrowing government. We are also "lead to believe" that it works which means that if we have to do it again we have something to look to for inspiration.

So, in the end even if you buy the premise that they were evil men who were trying to trick the masses into something that was not benevolent...they fucked up royally. People in America will use their "false" story as inspiration to kill their alleged globalist dream. Look how many people oppose govenment BECAUSE of this "phony" Founding Father fairytale.

[thegoodnessisgood]

I am amazed at the modern American mind, who’s been brainwashed with really fictional propaganda in school and its history comes from Hollywood; and they never read their Founding Fathers’ books or letters for themselves. They read about them by some modern author, but they won’t read anything by these people for themselves. If they did, they’d find out that Franklin and Thomas Jefferson talked about this being the nucleus. They hoped for a Federated world, a world system, ultimately; ultimately through different phases, ultimately to be led by a council of twelve wise men—all high Freemasonry, all high occultic Masonry.

A lot of what they said and did was good in the sense that it did lead to good principles - I look at Ron Paul as a modern conglomeration of the best they had to offer.

HOWEVER: AS you say the biggest problem in the world today is that the individual that is supposed to be the most revered and important aspect of the system, that individual is NOT actually reading the documents for themselves, when it is imperative for the system to work properly - legally and legitimately with minimal or no corruption. You can tell people: You need to read this. They don't read it. What's up with that. I make it a point to read anything like that I can get my hands on. We must be educated as citizenry. Self responsibility is a MORAL act, self education is a MORAL act. The Vibration of morality (not a religious morality - as it has been falsley portrayed) is in fact a form of CARING and they do their "cremation of care" ritual for a reason - CARING is bad for them When people care it sends an energy to the universe to which a response is garnered. When they don't care, DEATH IS THE RESULT.

[grandsecretary]

Something like 80% of them were freemasons and those in control continued to be dominated by masons. Hard to believe though it is, it seems to have been one grand plan from the get go. And not just in America.

Please list "the Founding Fathers" and indicate which of them were Freemasons and which of them were not. This figure of 80% is complete nonsense by any measure that I know.

[abrilliantone]

Please list "the Founding Fathers" and indicate which of them were Freemasons and which of them were not. This figure of 80% is complete nonsense by any measure that I know.




...An objective study of the Masonic affiliations of the founding fathers...



20 GREATEST NAMES OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION


John Adams - Spoke favorably of Freemasonry -- never joined
Samuel Adams - (Close and principle associate of Hancock, Revere & other Masons
Ethan Allen - Mason
Edmund Burke - Mason
John Claypoole - Mason
William Daws - Mason
Benjamin Franklin - Mason
Nathan Hale - No evidence of Masonic connections
John Hancock - Mason
Benjamin Harrison - No evidence of Masonic connections
Patrick Henry - No evidence of Masonic connections
Thomas Jefferson - Deist with some evidence of Masonic connections
John Paul Jones - Mason
Francis Scott Key - No evidence of Masonic connections
Robert Livingston - Mason
James Madison - Some evidence of Masonic membership
Thomas Paine - Humanist
Paul Revere - Mason
Colonel Benjamin Tupper - Mason
George Washington - Mason
Daniel Webster - Some evidence of Masonic connections
Summary: 10 Masons, 3 probable Masons, 1 Humanist, 2 Advocates of Freemasonry, 4 no record of connections.


SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE


Known Masons (8): Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, Joseph Hewes, William Hooper, Robert Treat Payne, Richard Stockton, George Walton, William Whipple

Evidence of Membership And/or Affiliations (7): Elbridge Berry, Lyman Hall, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Nelson Jr., John Penn, George Read, Roger Sherman

Summary: 15 of 56 Signers were Freemasons or probable Freemasons.

It's true that this represents only 27% of the total signers. But this 27% included the principle movers of the Revolution, most notably Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, the primary authors of the Declaration. The former was a Freemason, the latter a deist and possible Freemason. If one were to analyze the Declaration, he would see the humanistic influences.

In any event, there is no evidence that even 27% of the signers were true Christians. In considering whether or not this is a Christian nation, it isn't the number of Masons that is as important as is the number of founders overall who were non-believers.


SIGNERS OF THE CONSTITUTION


Known Masons (9): Gunning Bedford, Jr., John Blair, David Brearly, Jacob Broom, Daniel Carrol, John Dickinson, Benjamin Franklin, Rufus King, George Washington

Evidence of Membership And/or Affiliations (13): Abraham Baldwin, William Blount, Elbridge Gerry, Nicholas Gilman, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, John Lansing, Jr., James Madison, George Mason, George Read, Robert Morris, Roger Sherman, George Wythe

Those Who Later Became Masons (6): William Richardson Davie, Jr., Jonathan Dayton, Dr. James McHenry, John Francis Mercer, William Patterson, Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer

Summary: 28 of 40 signers were Freemasons or possible Freemasons based on evidence other than Lodge records.


MASONIC INFLUENCES IN EARLY AMERICAN HISTORY


- Lafayette, French liaison to the Colonies, without whose aid the war could not have been won, was a Freemason.

- The majority of the commanders of the Continental Army were Freemasons and members of "Army Lodges."

- Most of Washington's Generals were Freemasons.

- The Boston Tea Party was planned at the Green Dragon Tavern, also known as the "Freemasons' Arms," and "the Headquarters of the Revolution."

- George Washington was sworn in as the first President of the United States by Robert Livingston, Grand Master of New York's Masonic Lodge. The Bible on which he took his oath was from his own Masonic lodge.

- The Cornerstone of the Capital building was laid by the Grand Lodge of Maryland.

Even if the initiators of the Revolution had been Christians, the fact remains that the Revolutionary War and the nation's government were structured by the tenets of Freemasonry, not God's Word. It was an unholy alliance at best.





http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/think004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[grandsecretary]

"I was exaggerating" would have done.

[mike martin]

...An objective study of the Masonic affiliations of the founding fathers.

Pretty much the funniest part of your post is that you felt the need to edit what you supplied to make it look objective, which is just so funny.

Let's just take a quick look at what your objective source actually had to say (with the bit you used as a header in bold) shall we:

Because most Christians today are unaware of the manner in which Christianity was melded with the esoteric philosophies of theosophy and Jewish Cabalism to produce a hybrid mystery religion known as Freemasonry, they offer quotes from many of our founding fathers as evidence that they were Christians. Indeed, some were even clerics. But just as one of today's most famous clerics, Norman Vincent Peale, was a Freemason (prelate of the Grand Encampment of the Knights Templar of the United States), many of the nation's founding fathers were also Freemasons who used peculiar definitions of Biblical language in asserting their beliefs.

This is not to say that they were not noble men. Freemasons pride themselves in their noble attitudes and adherence to strict moral codes. These are not "evil" men in the classical sense. But they are blinded to the true revelation of God's Word, and their religious philosophy embraces all religions as valid. To be a Freemason, one must believe in a supreme being, but he need not be a Christian.

Based upon the evidence of Masonic influences in the establishment of this nation, there is no doubt that the criteria necessary to classify the United States as a Christian nation were not met. An objective study of the Masonic affiliations of the founding fathers must cause Christians to reevaluate their own political philosophy. For if the United States is not a Christian nation then we must choose to whom we will commit "our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor" -- our Lord or our country.

Oh very objective:D:rolleyes::rolleyes:

So what is the truth?:

9 of the 56 men that signed the Declaration of Independence were, in fact, Masons, so that's 13% of them.
13 of the 39 who signed the US Constitution were Masons so that's 33% and
33 of the 76 Generals in the Continental Army were Masons so that 46% of them.

Now if you add that altogether that makes gives you a figure of 92% but of course that's not real maths 55 is actually about 32% of 171.

That help at all.

Mike

[cruise4]

I withdraw the 80% claim. I read it somewhere a while ago and just repeated it. I was exaggerating :D (Bet it was more than that though :D ) The point is there were masons in not an inconsiderable number, and their mates! The main point stands. And thanks for taking my flack abrilliantone :D

[abrilliantone]

Pretty much the funniest part of your post is that you felt the need to edit what you supplied to make it look objective, which is just so funny.



Whooa there mikey, drop the stones, take a deep breath and chill man. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/whacky116.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)


I only posted that information because i'd read where grandsecretary http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/buttons_green/viewpost.gif (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=682518#post682518) said:Please list "the Founding Fathers" and indicate which of them were Freemasons and which of them were not.


Now rather I was at fault for answering a post that was not address to me personally, seems to have been seen.

But I did and I meant for it to be a reference point for the basis of the 'said question.'

Natrually, both sides would had their own views and opinons on the material. But still, they now have a list of the players who were involved.

What anyone does with it is up to them. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/happy096.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/)


Now my reason's for 'editing' the post. Was a bit about two things. Firstly, so that everone would'nt think I was 'some christian' airing out his greivences. I do not confirm to any religious dogma.

And secondly, to add some humor to the phrase: "An objective study" like when that's written that makes it "Thee Authority Figure."

I was meaning to be sarcastic. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/think005.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Pretty much the funniest part of your post is that you felt the need to edit what you supplied to make it look objective, which is just so funny.



But Still I See I've succeeded. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/happy036.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/)



So what is the truth?:

9 of the 56 men that signed the Declaration of Independence were, in fact, Masons, so that's 13% of them.
13 of the 39 who signed the US Constitution were Masons so that's 33% and
33 of the 76 Generals in the Continental Army were Masons so that 46% of them.

Now if you add that altogether that makes gives you a figure of 92% but of course that's not real maths 55 is actually about 32% of 171.

That help at all.

Mike



But still that dose not change the fact. That the more influential and prestiges guys of the bunch were "Freemasons."




http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/think004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[banoyes]

I withdraw the 80% claim. I read it somewhere a while ago and just repeated it. I was exaggerating :D (Bet it was more than that though :D ) The point is there were masons in not an inconsiderable number, and their mates! The main point stands. And thanks for taking my flack abrilliantone :D

It's all a coincidence...ask a Mason.

Considering their positions and the Masonic dominance
and Ickes' research
the top of the peak could well be of reptilian blood lines
and the Agenda is being carried out by the minions of Masonry
either knowingly
or un-knowingly

[disconnex]

How many years has it been since the first settlers left America for the new world of England? We still argue over this. Face it, England is full of American slaves. You left this country two hundred and thirty some odd years ago to escape democracy and capitalism only to find youself in a a system of monarchy! I bet now you wish you would have stayed! It must be wierd to have places named after the originals such as York, a blatent knock off of New York! What's next, Brooklyn England?!?! And England itself was stolen from the original northeastern province of New England! Hell, even Asia has decided to rip off the names of many popular towns throughout America, yes, China stole it's name from the great neighborhoods throughout America called China Town! Even Italy got involved in the thievory and stole its name from the small towns called Little Italy. When will the truth be told, America was never founded, the rest of the world populated itself from America. You have all been lied to if you believe different.

Disconnex
The next "African American" President.
Yeah Boooy! - Quoted from our OG founding father, Flavor Flav.

[keystone]

How many years has it been since the first settlers left America for the new world of England? We still argue over this. Face it, England is full of American slaves. You left this country two hundred and thirty some odd years ago to escape democracy and capitalism only to find youself in a a system of monarchy! I bet now you wish you would have stayed! It must be wierd to have places named after the originals such as York, a blatent knock off of New York! What's next, Brooklyn England?!?! And England itself was stolen from the original northeastern province of New England! Hell, even Asia has decided to rip off the names of many popular towns throughout America, yes, China stole it's name from the great neighborhoods throughout America called China Town! Even Italy got involved in the thievory and stole its name from the small towns called Little Italy. When will the truth be told, America was never founded, the rest of the world populated itself from America. You have all been lied to if you believe different.

Disconnex
The next "African American" President.
Yeah Boooy! - Quoted from our OG founding father, Flavor Flav.If that wasn't so worrying it would be funny.

[abaddon]

Please list "the Founding Fathers" and indicate which of them were Freemasons and which of them were not. This figure of 80% is complete nonsense by any measure that I know.


So what is the truth?:

9 of the 56 men that signed the Declaration of Independence were, in fact, Masons, so that's 13% of them.
13 of the 39 who signed the US Constitution were Masons so that's 33% and
33 of the 76 Generals in the Continental Army were Masons so that 46% of them.

Now if you add that altogether that makes gives you a figure of 92% but of course that's not real maths 55 is actually about 32% of 171.


the 80% claim. I read it somewhere a while ago and just repeated it. I was exaggerating (Bet it was more than that though ) The point is there were masons in not an inconsiderable number, and their mates! The main point stands. And thanks for taking my flack abrilliantone

Freemason Council admission of Mason rule in US (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zq1tmb_lnGo)

"If it doesn't make sense, it's a lie! Don't lie to me to make your point, it doesn't get you anywhere. Someone offers to organise your paperwork and pay your bills, you don't say 'Cheers', you'd say "Thank You, I'll Pay You Right Back.. isn't that right Sir?"


...

The point is there were masons in a considerable number. The point stands.

:)

[banoyes]

Freemason Council admission of Mason rule in US (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zq1tmb_lnGo)

:)

Can't get any clearer and now, take a look around

[lightindarkness]

Can't get any clearer and now, take a look around

OH NOES! Someone on a town council stated they are a freemason! THIS *must* mean that freemasons are controlling the world!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[abaddon]

OH NOES! Someone on a town council stated they are a freemason! THIS *must* mean that freemasons are controlling the world!



UGLE and GLOE or w/e can't even agree on stuff. Doubt they could control the world, but hey, not all Masons are scum- then again, neither are all politicians. :D Not all Masons aspire for the top brass... but neither do politicians. No offense meant, just taking the piss ;) back to topic


The OP questioned the morals of the Founding Fathers. I'm not American, hence have no idea. But ShellyGurl sounds rational.

[banoyes]

OH NOES! Someone on a town council stated they are a freemason! THIS *must* mean that freemasons are controlling the world!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Matters not how high he is in politics
what is shown is Freemason influence at EVERY level of GOVERNMENT

just saying the work Freemason" is forboden, unless it's to do with some shinanigans at county fairs or some Shriner big deal function with all the sycophants from Hollywood and such

It's also IMO an opening salvo, Masons will be exposed and they are gonna
stand up and say
"So What ?"
Then.......?????
Fire em all
Turn Buckingham into a homeless shelter.
make the Queen a "greeter" like at Wall Mart

[lightindarkness]

Matters not how high he is in politics
what is shown is Freemason influence at EVERY level of GOVERNMENT

just saying the work Freemason" is forboden, unless it's to do with some shinanigans at county fairs or some Shriner big deal function with all the sycophants from Hollywood and such

It's also IMO an opening salvo, Masons will be exposed and they are gonna
stand up and say
"So What ?"
Then.......?????
Fire em all
Turn Buckingham into a homeless shelter.
make the Queen a "greeter" like at Wall Mart

You have a video of someone in a town council who says hes a mason. Thats it. The end. Certainly not proof of freemason influence at "every level of government." There is no freemason influence. Its not the role of the fraternity to influence anything.

I know you desperately want to believe in it...but I study government for a living, and you are wrong. Your chasing shadows of evil that don't exist, when the real groups that influence government are right in front of your face and you ignore them because thinking freemasonry is in control is sexier. The real true power in government is organized interest groups, not freemasonry.

You are imagining a open salvo in a war that doesn't exist.

[abaddon]

I know you desperately want to believe in it...but I study government for a living, and you are wrong.


Appreciate your straightforwardness :)


the real groups you ignore, because thinking freemasonry is in control is sexier..

rofl ^_^

[kappy0405]

Clearly, the Illuminati spread to the US since its founding, even George Washington acknowledged that, but I'd find it hard to believe that they had control of it that point.

I was under the impression that they didn't gain full infiltration of America until the Rothschilds had the 20 year charter renewed for their bank, just after the 'war of 1812'. Their dominance has been increasing since then..

The creation of the Federal Reserve, and groups like Skull & Bones propping them up have been the main cause of them taking over this country imo.