David Icke contradicts himself?

[cl2008]

In his speeches, he talks about THE BIBLE for being one of his references about a great cataclysm that wiped out ancient civilizations. (Noah's ark and the flood).

But later on, why does he diss religions as "prison religions"?

I dont get it. I thought he disses religions but why is he giving credit to the bible if it is supposedly from a "prison religion"?

[limelady]

In his speeches, he talks about THE BIBLE for being one of his references about a great cataclysm that wiped out ancient civilizations. (Noah's ark and the flood).

But later on, why does he diss religions as "prison religions"?

I dont get it. I thought he disses religions but why is he giving credit to the bible if it is supposedly from a "prison religion"?

Because like many other non-religious researchers, he understand that even though there is much non-accurate information in the bible, it can be very useful as a cross-reference guide when sifting through historical data and attempting to correlate events from the past and put pieces together to try and make sense of what REALLY happened.

There is truth in the bible, but sometimes its heavily buried under the agendas of the day, you just have to be decerning with how you understand and utilise this information.

Take controlled religion out of the picture, and its just a book, right? :)

[steppewar]

A while ago I watched a documentary on the History channel. According to scientists, mankind nearly went extinct about 10 to 12,000 years ago,...the human population of the world went down to about 10,000.

This is the period in the bible when the great flood, Noah's ark story took place.

The bible and other religious books have some truths in them, but you do not have to be a religious person to try and discover what is, and is not true.

[madthumbs]

The Bible is full of plagiarized story's (http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/about6266.html)

The Epic of Gilgamesh for one:
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab1.htm

[Anders Lindman]

David Icke says that we are Infinite consciousness with infinite intelligence, knowing etc. I like that idea. At least it is much better than for example Eckhart Tolle's stupid idea of accepting aging, disease and death. :mad:

[himram abif]

The Bible is full of plagiarized story's (http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/about6266.html)

The Epic of Gilgamesh for one:
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab1.htm

IMO the story of Gigamesh and the story of Noah are the same story just recorded at different pionts in history, i think i'm right in saying that the meaning of their names are similar check out David Rohl he's done some work in this area.

[Anders Lindman]

David Icke contradicts himself in that he does not walk his talk. He talks about being Infinite consciousness, yet experiences aging and disease. But he is not alone. Bruce Lipton talks about aging being a belief, but also he seems to not walk his talk.

[adramelech]

The Bible is full of plagiarized story's (http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/about6266.html)

The Epic of Gilgamesh for one:
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab1.htm

Before the books that encompass the modern "Bible" were compiled and (mis)translated by religious authorities, they were seemingly disparate progressive retellings of the same historical accounts that have been repeated by virtually every ancient culture that has existed, later referred to as "myth". It only became plagarism after these source texts were covered up and Biblical authorities attempted to pass the stories off as original rather than retellings thousands of years old.

Topic creator, the Bible is not a proper "religious book", it's an elaborate perversion of countless ancient texts, histories and spiritual concepts created to control by playing on familiar archetypes in the human mind. This is what we call religion. The original texts themselves are not only valid, but incredibly important to understand as a human being.

[armoured_amazon]

Take controlled religion out of the picture, and its just a book, right? :)

There's no controlled religion in the NT. ;)

[limelady]

There's no controlled religion in the NT. ;)

True, but whole controlled religions are based on it ;)

[blue]

if your talking about the bible and more precisely the great flood, well the bible is just one of those hundreds of books which have recorded such events. FYI there are around 500 such legends of cataclysm, some one advising a man to built a boat/box, asking him to take every type of living being, they taking refuge in mountains....etc etc
the sumerians, the mayans, egyptians, central america, south america, india, china, middle east.......these have their own flood stories.

[barbitone]

David Icke contradicts himself in that he does not walk his talk. He talks about being Infinite consciousness, yet experiences aging and disease. But he is not alone. Bruce Lipton talks about aging being a belief, but also he seems to not walk his talk.

That's hilfckinglarious dude.:rolleyes:

[titurel]

True, but whole controlled religions are based on it ;)
Actually, the religions of Christendom are based corruptions of what's in the Bible, which is why Christendom is exposed as "Babylon the Great", in Revelation, which says "Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share in her sins, for she has become a dwelling place of demons and every unclean thing".

It's no surprise that the last two Popes have called for a NWO in association with the United Nations. The Ecumenical Council of World Churches is not what it seems but rather these organised religions were created by the Luciferian elite who are wolves in sheep's clothing out to dope down the masses and keep them in conflicts.

[madthumbs]

There's no controlled religion in the NT. ;)

Would you stop lying please?

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

-From Jesus's fictional mouth

If you want to quote Saul of Tarsus, then I'll just throw it in your face that he was clearly a fraud or an Anti-Jewsus.

[times7]

Actually, the religions of Christendom are based corruptions of what's in the Bible, which is why Christendom is exposed as "Babylon the Great", in Revelation, which says "Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share in her sins, for she has become a dwelling place of demons and every unclean thing".





The NWO plan to destroy organized religion by merging Islam,Buddism,hinduism,christianity in to one organized satanic religion,Karl Marx planned global goverment based on a rejection of God

I agree that the leaders in the church such as the council of world churches are part of the plot

The harlot in revelation i believe is atheistic communism not christendom,thats why you get imposter marxist preists saying Karl Marx is Greater than Christ

The goverments of the west have even banned the words merry christmas from schools,its more than obvious that they hate christendom more than any other religion just like it says in the protocols of the learned elders of zion

Take Ahmadinejad of Iran,hes a globalist as well,its a multi dimensional jigsaw and atheistic communism which is a religion and is the key to crack the code

[phoebe]

David took this info from others' studies
namely Flem-Ath, Delair, Hancock.
The story of a great flood/cataclysm is
told in the myths of countries all over the world
as detailed by the above authors/researchers.

[thirdwave]

The NWO plan to destroy organized religion by merging Islam,Buddism,hinduism,christianity in to one organized satanic religion,Karl Marx planned global goverment based on a rejection of God


No, They are already all linked and a are there to benefit a "Satanic" group.... now we are simply starting to see that.... the one world religion will be brought in in the same way as any religion is brought in... at a time were Humanity are desperate for answers and feel lost... so the next pack of lies can be brought in...

this is why it is important to begin to stand on ones own two feet so one is no longer susceptible to this kind of manipulation any more and has more of an understanding of the universe and out true meaning.

[razed1]

David Icke says that we are Infinite consciousness with infinite intelligence, knowing etc. I like that idea. At least it is much better than for example Eckhart Tolle's stupid idea of accepting aging, disease and death. :mad:

theres more wisdom in what tolle is saying


to accept death is to accept life,


its only those who are corrupt and vile to want to cheat death

you cant have a vibrant summer and then not expect a cold dark winter


ahh yes the neverending story, the legend continues forever

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Cordial Felicitations:

Apparently Science bears ot the Myths & Legends of a Great Deluge.

I have read, though not yet Vetted, Geologists have discovered what they term: Ossiferous Fissures

These are Fissures (cracks) in the earths crust at high elevations, filled with Sediment.

The Sediment includes Bones of many disparate Species.

The Bones show no sign of Tumbling due to running water, and the Bones are intermixed, all jumbled up. Predators and Prey Animals all together.

The researchers Posit many Animals were driven to High Ground, were they met a common fate.

I'll look for my original Article, they say: Usually there is at least a grain of truth to most Legends & Myths.



Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

[phoebe]

theres more wisdom in what tolle is saying


to accept death is to accept life,


its only those who are corrupt and vile to want to cheat death

you cant have a vibrant summer and then not expect a cold dark winter


ahh yes the neverending story, the legend continues forever

Very nicely put.
Why should we NOT accept death?
It's the only certain thing in life after all.
To spend a life not accepting it is to live in hell.

[chris]

In his speeches, he talks about THE BIBLE for being one of his references about a great cataclysm that wiped out ancient civilizations. (Noah's ark and the flood).

But later on, why does he diss religions as "prison religions"?

I dont get it. I thought he disses religions but why is he giving credit to the bible if it is supposedly from a "prison religion"?

Why do people quote Hitler when they are not fascist?

I agree with your original premise though, his books are full of contradictions.

[tinmenace]

Life is full of "contradictions". Your wall is solid, yeah? Actually no. Quantum physics proves that it is not.

So, yeah....

[chris]

Life is full of "contradictions". Your wall is solid, yeah? Actually no. Quantum physics proves that it is not.

So, yeah....





True but if I wrote a book, upon the material plane of contradictions (paper) would lie a solidity and consistency in words.

[tinmenace]

True but if I wrote a book, upon the material plane of contradictions (paper) would lie a solidity and consistency in words.

Have you read David's newsletter (http://www.davidicke.com/amember/signup.php) this week? It's a must. It's about intellect, and I respectfully think it applies to you.

[chris]

Have you read David's newsletter (http://www.davidicke.com/amember/signup.php) this week? It's a must. It's about intellect, and I respectfully think it applies to you.




I stopped suscribing to his newsletter after he had his second Puru (a lot less fun than his first) so I haven't read it. If you would respectfully give a summation of it then I would be able to comment.

[baron von lotsov]

The NWO plan to destroy organized religion by merging Islam,Buddism,hinduism,christianity in to one organized satanic religion,Karl Marx planned global goverment based on a rejection of God

I agree that the leaders in the church such as the council of world churches are part of the plot

The harlot in revelation i believe is atheistic communism not christendom,thats why you get imposter marxist preists saying Karl Marx is Greater than Christ

The goverments of the west have even banned the words merry christmas from schools,its more than obvious that they hate christendom more than any other religion just like it says in the protocols of the learned elders of zion

Take Ahmadinejad of Iran,hes a globalist as well,its a multi dimensional jigsaw and atheistic communism which is a religion and is the key to crack the code


Yes and anyone with an ounce of sense would know that it is not a system religion or they would not be trying to ban it and especially, as you so rightly point out, the Marxist component of the Illuminati are working overtime on this part of the agenda. Read the stories of the problems you get in chapels in hospitals when Muslims are involved. The covering up of crosses so as not to offend their Satanic beliefs and people getting taken to court for allegedly insulting Muslims belief. The homosexual who was awared £50 000 by a judge for not being given a job as a vicar, a lot of the award was to compensate for damage to his feelings! Not once has it ever happened the other way around.

And still people peddle this nonsense about the Bible being the main system religion. It is not, and historically it has not been either, especially in the times of the Roman Empire. Oddly the Romans eventually converted to Christianity and their empire fell after that. I suppose empires are an anathema to the teachings, that really mean one can look after one's self and the people around and a state is not required. In a truly Christian society there would be no need for police.

[baron von lotsov]

Have you read David's newsletter (http://www.davidicke.com/amember/signup.php) this week? It's a must. It's about intellect, and I respectfully think it applies to you.





Please supply a quote, I'm all for a laugh. If it's that funny I might even subscribe!

[chris]

Please supply a quote, I'm all for a laugh. If it's that funny I might even subscribe!

Even after his second Puru?

[tinmenace]

Please supply a quote, I'm all for a laugh. If it's that funny I might even subscribe!

All the laughs you need, right here:

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/mirror.jpg

[tinmenace]

I stopped suscribing to his newsletter after he had his second Puru (a lot less fun than his first) so I haven't read it. If you would respectfully give a summation of it then I would be able to comment.

Ok, when I have more time....

[chris]

Ok, when I have more time....





6,000+ posts and you have no time to write a few sentences?

There is little mistaking it, Icke's work is full of contradictions. Its just a matter of putting up with them. I personally can but I don't blame other people for not.

[baron von lotsov]

Even after his second Puru?




Please, tell me more. I'm completely out of touch with the man's mental state. What has he gone and done now???

[drakul]

It's hilarious to watch how the New Ager Anti-Christians like Icke, Tsarion, Acharya, Jordan Maxwell go into great detail to prove that NOTHING IN THE BIBLE IS TRUE - re Jesus Christ, the history of the Jews, etc etc. BUT THEN when they find some little verse that upholds their own agenda, such as mention of the `NEFILIM - the great men of old' - whom the New Agers believe are the offspring of the `ETs who created mankind by mating with the daughters of men'. THEN they hold up the Bible with solemn and sincere conviction - `See it must be true - IT'S IN THE BIBLE'.

wow.

After they've just finished telling us how stupid we are to believe anything in this `prison religion book' called the Bible.

hillaryfckingus :rolleyes:

[strider]

I love Icke's books, but there is only so far you can go to defend someome..

Infinite love is the only truth, but I won't speak to Jordan Maxwell.. Come on..

[chris]

Please, tell me more. I'm completely out of touch with the man's mental state. What has he gone and done now???

lol, you remember.

He divorced himself from the old forum and then sent out all his non-paid (and paid including moi) subscribers a newsletter telling us how disappointed he was in us all that we can't buy him a pint down the pub or go from an unpaid newsletter to a paid newsletter, which is exactly what's going to happen.

Then a week later he gave us a story about how he took some dodgy sleeping pill and flipped out on a plane and then went crazy with his email list and said it was an initiatic experience on par with his first Peru (although I doubt it will make his next book).

[tinmenace]

6,000+ posts and you have no time to write a few sentences?

There is little mistaking it, Icke's work is full of contradictions. Its just a matter of putting up with them. I personally can but I don't blame other people for not.

Thing is that I don't have much time for you, so I'd have to MAKE time to spoon feed you.

But, oops... I've run out of time completely. Looks like you'll have to read the newsletter by yourself...like a big boy :(


:D

[Anders Lindman]

theres more wisdom in what tolle is saying


to accept death is to accept life,


its only those who are corrupt and vile to want to cheat death

you cant have a vibrant summer and then not expect a cold dark winter


ahh yes the neverending story, the legend continues forever

I refuse to accept death. At least until I understand what death is.

[razed1]

It's hilarious to watch how the New Ager Anti-Christians like Icke, Tsarion, Acharya, Jordan Maxwell go into great detail to prove that NOTHING IN THE BIBLE IS TRUE - re Jesus Christ, the history of the Jews, etc etc. BUT THEN when they find some little verse that upholds their own agenda, such as mention of the `NEFILIM - the great men of old' - whom the New Agers believe are the offspring of the `ETs who created mankind by mating with the daughters of men'. THEN they hold up the Bible with solemn and sincere conviction - `See it must be true - IT'S IN THE BIBLE'.

wow.

After they've just finished telling us how stupid we are to believe anything in this `prison religion book' called the Bible.

hillaryfckingus :rolleyes:

for fuck's sake ,

can you pull your mental out the gutter for just a nano-second to realize that NONE of those researchers are advocating that "prove that NOTHING IN THE BIBLE IS TRUE "

no they dont!! just cause you capitalize it and scream and pout, doenst mean the baloney story you THINK you know about is true

theres more to the bible story than the superficial level of comprehension YOU and your like at taking it as


dont blame the researchers cause you arent able to comprehend these more astute concepts

[razed1]

I refuse to accept death. At least until I understand what death is.

if youre an infinite soul as i think you say you are

then why so scared to lose this physical body?

[Anders Lindman]

if youre an infinite soul as i think you say you are

then why so scared to lose this physical body?

I think I may be Infinite consciousness as David Icke says, but I'm not sure. What if death is horrible? :eek::confused: I can only accept things that I understand. Trying to accept something that I don't understand would just be to fool myself.

[baron von lotsov]

lol, you remember.

He divorced himself from the old forum and then sent out all his non-paid (and paid including moi) subscribers a newsletter telling us how disappointed he was in us all that we can't buy him a pint down the pub or go from an unpaid newsletter to a paid newsletter, which is exactly what's going to happen.

Then a week later he gave us a story about how he took some dodgy sleeping pill and flipped out on a plane and then went crazy with his email list and said it was an initiatic experience on par with his first Peru (although I doubt it will make his next book).



So you are saying he did a sort of David Shayler which in turn was an idea borrowed from Icke himself. These people never learn, they should stop dabbling with the occult. It leads directly to 'no brains' theories, often involving aliens and holograms.

[drakul]

for fuck's sake ,

can you pull your mental out the gutter for just a nano-second to realize that NONE of those researchers are advocating that "prove that NOTHING IN THE BIBLE IS TRUE "

no they dont!! just cause you capitalize it and scream and pout, doenst mean the baloney story you THINK you know about is true

theres more to the bible story than the superficial level of comprehension YOU and your like at taking it as


dont blame the researchers cause you arent able to comprehend these more astute concepts



Pull my mind out of what gutter? I am merely pointing out the obvious HIPPOCRISY (and the subject of this thread) which must be obvious to even the most naive among us. When did that become a THOUGHT CRIME?

And your point IS?

That based on their intensive FREEMASONIC RESEARCH, the New Ager priestly class KNOW what is `TRUE' and what is NOT TRUE in the Bible?

IOW whatever suits the New Agey AGENDA becomes `true' because it's dumtedum - IN THE BIBLE.

[steevo]

In his speeches, he talks about THE BIBLE for being one of his references about a great cataclysm that wiped out ancient civilizations. (Noah's ark and the flood).

But later on, why does he diss religions as "prison religions"?

I dont get it. I thought he disses religions but why is he giving credit to the bible if it is supposedly from a "prison religion"?

Some stuff in the bible is probably true, some of it not true, we can never really know for sure. Maybe there was a great flood back then and maybe a man called Noah had a boat. It's up to you to make up your own mind. I'm not religious but I discuss the bible and other works of fiction all the time. IMO Most ficticious stories are partly based on actuality but the names have just been changed to protect the innocent :D

So I wouldnt really say that David Icke definitely contradicted himself when he mentioned Noah's Ark.

[chris]

Thing is that I don't have much time for you, so I'd have to MAKE time to spoon feed you.

In other words, anything you do quote will simply highlight your ignorance because what I have said is 100%


But, oops... I've run out of time completely. Looks like you'll have to read the newsletter by yourself...like a big boy :(


:D



Like I said, I unsubscribed after his less crowd pleasing second Peru. Since you brought up the newsletter, it is up to you to point out what you are trying to say, not for me to do errands for you.

There is a quote in the bagavad gita, it applies to you. Now read the fucking thing and don't ask me to hold your hand and spoon feed you!

If your going to criticise my assessment then please point it out but bah, now that I've asked for elucidation, you have no longer any time for me...

[tinmenace]

In other words, anything you do quote will simply highlight your ignorance because what I have said is 100%




Like I said, I unsubscribed after his less crowd pleasing second Peru. Since you brought up the newsletter, it is up to you to point out what you are trying to say, not for me to do errands for you.

There is a quote in the bagavad gita, it applies to you. Now read the fucking thing and don't ask me to hold your hand and spoon feed you!

If your going to criticise my assessment then please point it out but bah, now that I've asked for elucidation, you have no longer any time for me...


:D:D

[drakul]

Some stuff in the bible is probably true, some of it not true, we can never really know for sure. Maybe there was a great flood back then and maybe a man called Noah had a boat. It's up to you to make up your own mind. I'm not religious but I discuss the bible and other works of fiction all the time. IMO Most ficticious stories are partly based on actuality but the names have just been changed to protect the innocent :D

So I wouldnt really say that David Icke definitely contradicted himself when he mentioned Noah's Ark.


Just as long as you believe that NOTHING in the Bible about JESUS CHRIST is true, you're free to go. The rest is just crap so we don't care. (thought police 101)

[razed1]

I think I may be Infinite consciousness as David Icke says, but I'm not sure. What if death is horrible? :eek::confused: I can only accept things that I understand. Trying to accept something that I don't understand would just be to fool myself.

but you dont try to understand, youre guilty of judging something before you understand

[drakul]

but you dont try to understand, youre guilty of judging something before you understand

And you understand DEATH? You've been there, done that?

Or you just `understand' what someone told you death is?

[thirdwave]

And you understand DEATH? You've been there, done that?

Or you just `understand' what someone told you death is?

I believe we understand things due to past experiences before this life... we are familiar with emotions we have not even felt in this life yet... this is a reason why its so hard to explain some things to people...

So yes think many of us have died and been there a done it...

[Anders Lindman]

but you dont try to understand, youre guilty of judging something before you understand

I try very hard to understand death. My latest trick is to put the question of my own death into my heart. I actually can feel something stirring when I do that. Hopefully that can begin to dissolve and melt my death angst.

[razed1]

And you understand DEATH? You've been there, done that?

Or you just `understand' what someone told you death is?

look man, im not here to do your work for you,

if i say something that shocks your yuppy mind, then maybe you should , on your own time, look further into this subject matter

but please dont expect me to even try and articulate these kinds of metaphysical, abstract things to you, especially in this kind of format,

you should be delighted, that a whole amazing journey of self realization lies ahead of you!

treat it like a pretty lady, take care of her, and shell show you love in return

do you not hold anything sacred in your life??

[tinmenace]

look man, im not here to do your work for you,

if i say something that shocks your yuppy mind, then maybe you should , on your own time, look further into this subject matter

but please dont expect me to even try and articulate these kinds of metaphysical, abstract things to you, especially in this kind of format,

you should be delighted, that a whole amazing journey of self realization lies ahead of you!

treat it like a pretty lady, take care of her, and shell show you love in return

do you not hold anything sacred in your life??

Whew! Niiiice!

[drakul]

look man, im not here to do your work for you,

if i say something that shocks your yuppy mind, then maybe you should , on your own time, look further into this subject matter

but please dont expect me to even try and articulate these kinds of metaphysical, abstract things to you, especially in this kind of format,

you should be delighted, that a whole amazing journey of self realization lies ahead of you!

treat it like a pretty lady, take care of her, and shell show you love in return

do you not hold anything sacred in your life??


WHAT?!!

DEATH is a `pretty lady'?

(shakes head. slitherins don't reason they just SLIDE)

[chris]

treat it like a pretty lady, take care of her, and shell show you love in return


WHAT?!!

DEATH is a `pretty lady'?

That advise might get you arrested.

[razed1]

I try very hard to understand death. My latest trick is to put the question of my own death into my heart. I actually can feel something stirring when I do that. Hopefully that can begin to dissolve and melt my death angst.

its like everyday, the sun sets, and night comes,

but are you worried that the sun wont rise the next morning???

or is there just some base knowing somewhere inside you where you know its gonna come up??


to tap deep into that part of us, is what icke speaks about the 'all knowing' part, and that where the illuminati want to keep us far away from, through messages of fear

[razed1]

WHAT?!!

DEATH is a `pretty lady'?

(shakes head. slitherins don't reason they just SLIDE)

i meant the journey is a pretty lady

dont be a dumb cunt, dont automatically disrespect things you dont understand

[chris]

its like everyday, the sun sets, and night comes,

but are you worried that the sun wont rise the next morning???

or is there just some base knowing somewhere inside you where you know its gonna come up??


to tap deep into that part of us, is what icke speaks about the 'all knowing' part, and that where the illuminati want to keep us far away from, through messages of fear

Any techniques you like to share?

[razed1]

Any techniques you like to share?

yea,


TURN OFF THE TV!!!

[Anders Lindman]

its like everyday, the sun sets, and night comes,

but are you worried that the sun wont rise the next morning???

or is there just some base knowing somewhere inside you where you know its gonna come up??


to tap deep into that part of us, is what icke speaks about the 'all knowing' part, and that where the illuminati want to keep us far away from, through messages of fear

I prepare mentally before putting awareness into the heart. I ask myself if I am certain that I'm going to die. And the answer is: no. This might sound insane at first, but the future is not what it used to be. So first a clear rational understanding, then messing with the heart.

[chris]

i meant the journey is a pretty lady

Ha, you can't spin out of this one. It was a clear reference to necrophilia.

[adramelech]

It's hilarious to watch how the New Ager Anti-Christians like Icke, Tsarion, Acharya, Jordan Maxwell go into great detail to prove that NOTHING IN THE BIBLE IS TRUE - re Jesus Christ, the history of the Jews, etc etc. BUT THEN when they find some little verse that upholds their own agenda, such as mention of the `NEFILIM - the great men of old' - whom the New Agers believe are the offspring of the `ETs who created mankind by mating with the daughters of men'. THEN they hold up the Bible with solemn and sincere conviction - `See it must be true - IT'S IN THE BIBLE'.

wow.

After they've just finished telling us how stupid we are to believe anything in this `prison religion book' called the Bible.

hillaryfckingus :rolleyes:

You can't actually believe this sort of nonsense. Drakul, the Bible didn't just come into existence one day, it was assembled over centuries of editing, translation, writing and papal fraud. Hundreds of disparate books and texts, thousands of years old, went into the making of the modern Bible, which was cobbled together gradually to form a fabricated belief system. It was (and is still, today) modified and edited to fit the times, as religious authorities deem appropriate.

You have a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips thanks to the internet to read, research and learn the history of the Bible and even to read the original sacred and ancient texts which went into creating it, to learn the history of Christian belief. And yet, you seem satisfied with hovering around the level of a Dark Age peasant, loudly proclaiming the absolute authority of a belief system you don't even understand.

[chris]

yea,


TURN OFF THE TV!!!

100 years ago there was no TV's what would you recommend for them?

[razed1]

I prepare mentally before putting awareness into the heart. I ask myself if I am certain that I'm going to die. And the answer is: no. This might sound insane at first, but the future is not what it used to be. So first a clear rational understanding, then messing with the heart.

like this zen teacher Alan Watt used to say

"to understand the mind, first youve gotta get out of it!"

im not sure thats an exact quote, but he said something like that


meaning, you cant try and rationalize and 'think' too much about this stuff

cause you get sucked back into the world of the ego and mind

and ego and mind only exists in past/future

so, dont you dont to prepare nothing man

your just convoluting things more than they should be, just think back to how you used to be when you were 4 yrs old, or if you play sports, just think back to when it was late in 4th quarter, and theere 12 seconds, and youre down by 1, and you dribbled and bobbed and weaved and did the right move at the right time to score the winning basket

you didnt think before hand, what move you were gonna do and when, you just reacted and acted!!

just like the futbol example that icke gives, get int the "zone"

we should be living our whole waking lives, in the "zone"

[thirdwave]

like this zen teacher Alan Watt used to say

"to understand the mind, first youve gotta get out of it!"

im not sure thats an exact quote, but he said something like that


meaning, you cant try and rationalize and 'think' too much about this stuff

cause you get sucked back into the world of the ego and mind

and ego and mind only exists in past/future

so, dont you dont to prepare nothing man

your just convoluting things more than they should be, just think back to how you used to be when you were 4 yrs old, or if you play sports, just think back to when it was late in 4th quarter, and theere 12 seconds, and youre down by 1, and you dribbled and bobbed and weaved and did the right move at the right time to score the winning basket

you didnt think before hand, what move you were gonna do and when, you just reacted and acted!!

just like the futbol example that icke gives, get int the "zone"

we should be living our whole waking lives, in the "zone"

you mean Alan WattS?

[Anders Lindman]

like this zen teacher Alan Watt used to say

"to understand the mind, first youve gotta get out of it!"

im not sure thats an exact quote, but he said something like that


meaning, you cant try and rationalize and 'think' too much about this stuff

cause you get sucked back into the world of the ego and mind

and ego and mind only exists in past/future

so, dont you dont to prepare nothing man

your just convoluting things more than they should be, just think back to how you used to be when you were 4 yrs old, or if you play sports, just think back to when it was late in 4th quarter, and theere 12 seconds, and youre down by 1, and you dribbled and bobbed and weaved and did the right move at the right time to score the winning basket

you didnt think before hand, what move you were gonna do and when, you just reacted and acted!!

just like the futbol example that icke gives, get int the "zone"

we should be living our whole waking lives, in the "zone"

That's why I put awareness into the heart. The thinking mind cannot trick itself then. But I think it's important to first find the limits of the thinking mind, and in this case I believe the limit is that the thinking mind cannot know if I am going to die or not. Ordinary, the thinking mind has the idea that it is certain that it is going to die. With that kind of firm belief I wouldn't recommend messing with the heart.

[razed1]

you mean Alan WattS?

yea, silly mistake, allan wattS

[razed1]

That's why I put awareness into the heart. The thinking mind cannot trick itself then. But I think it's important to first find the limits of the thinking mind, and in this case I believe the limit is that the thinking mind cannot know if I am going to die or not. Ordinary, the thinking mind has the idea that it is certain that it is going to die. With that kind of firm belief I wouldn't recommend messing with the heart.

i dont know, youre looking at this from a left brained pov,

i dont think you can "put" any awareness into the heart, its already aware,

you have to treat yourself as if you are in the presence of a god, , its already there inside you, everything you need,


when you say "Ordinary, the thinking mind has the idea that it is certain that it is going to die." its like, its not the thinking mind that has an idea about death

its NATURE!, the cycle of life/death is already there out there in the natural world of equilibrium, this cycle was there before your thinking mind was conscious, and it will be there loong after your gone!!

so just learn from the processes of what going in the natural world, that produced you, what greater teacher could you ask for?

[celtic isis]

In his speeches, he talks about THE BIBLE for being one of his references about a great cataclysm that wiped out ancient civilizations. (Noah's ark and the flood).

But later on, why does he diss religions as "prison religions"?

I dont get it. I thought he disses religions but why is he giving credit to the bible if it is supposedly from a "prison religion"?

Because the bible isn't a book based on myths, the bible is a book written (which is course was edited later to leave certain things out and other things in or to suit the "prison religion" agenda.

The bible is one of the earliest records of events that happened on earth, mixed with stories of symbolic meaning (which the masses are left interpreting literally of course)...either way it can and is used as a historical reference guide by many though it is always open to individual interpretation.

I see nothing wrong with david icke referencing the bible, it has nothing to do with how the religons were later used as tools of control and divide and therefore imprisonment among the masses for centuries.


I don't know if the bible was created with the specific intent of creating the basis of the religious brainwashing, i do think the bible ws of course part of a more ancient work, like orginating from Atlantis or some other ancient lost civilisation, like the book of the dead for the egyptians...same type of thing only the religious hierarchy have made business with the bible.

i really don't see the problem or confusion with how icke can reference the bible and as you said call religons 'prison religions'???


He's making very different points on both occasions for one thing!

[Anders Lindman]

i dont know, youre looking at this from a left brained pov,

i dont think you can "put" any awareness into the heart, its already aware,

you have to treat yourself as if you are in the presence of a god, , its already there inside you, everything you need,


when you say "Ordinary, the thinking mind has the idea that it is certain that it is going to die." its like, its not the thinking mind that has an idea about death

its NATURE!, the cycle of life/death is already there out there in the natural world of equilibrium, this cycle was there before your thinking mind was conscious, and it will be there loong after your gone!!

so just learn from the processes of what going in the natural world, that produced you, what greater teacher could you ask for?

It's a variant of Tolle's practice of directing one's awareness into the body. It's actually a very clever technique because the thinking mind cannot fool itself then. One cannot think about feeling the temperature in one's hands for example. That would not be a direct sensing of the hands. But by directing one's awareness to feel the temperature in the hands, then the hands are felt directly.

The heart is a difficult part to pay attention to in my experience. And when I tried to think about my own death and sense the heart in the past with a firm conviction that I'm going to die, a tremendous feeling of sorrow could start, which I suspect was a false/inaccurate feeling that may not have been very healthy.

[drakul]

You can't actually believe this sort of nonsense. Drakul, the Bible didn't just come into existence one day, it was assembled over centuries of editing, translation, writing and papal fraud. Hundreds of disparate books and texts, thousands of years old, went into the making of the modern Bible, which was cobbled together gradually to form a fabricated belief system. It was (and is still, today) modified and edited to fit the times, as religious authorities deem appropriate.

You have a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips thanks to the internet to read, research and learn the history of the Bible and even to read the original sacred and ancient texts which went into creating it, to learn the history of Christian belief. And yet, you seem satisfied with hovering around the level of a Dark Age peasant, loudly proclaiming the absolute authority of a belief system you don't even understand.

There are 2 parts to the Bible my friend. Right? The Old Testament and the New Testament. The OT is primarily a bloody history of the Jewish people - that's all. The New Testament - what's written in RED - the words of Jesus - is the basis of Christianity. Jesus' words still ring true today and that is why Christianity has lasted for 2,000 years. Not because of the VATICAN priests. The Vatican Illuminati has done everything they can to destroy Christianity and turn it into a `prison religion'.

The Illuminati want to destroy the very memory of Jesus. To erase HIM from existence. WHY? Because it was Christianity that forced their BLOOD SUCKING gods into the proverbial closet, banning their worship in 325AD. And the Illuminati want to bring back their gods of BLOOD SACRIFICE (reptilians of the 4/5 dimension?). How do you do that? You destroy Christianity and bring in the One World Govt and Religion whose god is `MAITREYA'? (Lucifer?)

[celtic isis]

i dont know, youre looking at this from a left brained pov,

i dont think you can "put" any awareness into the heart, its already aware,

you have to treat yourself as if you are in the presence of a god, , its already there inside you, everything you need,


when you say "Ordinary, the thinking mind has the idea that it is certain that it is going to die." its like, its not the thinking mind that has an idea about death

its NATURE!, the cycle of life/death is already there out there in the natural world of equilibrium, this cycle was there before your thinking mind was conscious, and it will be there loong after your gone!!

so just learn from the processes of what going in the natural world, that produced you, what greater teacher could you ask for?

brilliant post there razed1 :) you said it all!
i don't understand why the rest don't get it! they're too locked up in their mind prisons i guess!

[razed1]

thanks isis, 'preciate it

i thinks a long hard process of coming out of the left brained prison, the masculine mindset is overbearing, and no help coming from this illuminati controlled media and society in general, heck theyre even going to further 'cement' or fortify the already patriarchal mindset

[amethyst]

A while ago I watched a documentary on the History channel. According to scientists, mankind nearly went extinct about 10 to 12,000 years ago,...the human population of the world went down to about 10,000.

This is the period in the bible when the great flood, Noah's ark story took place.

The bible and other religious books have some truths in them, but you do not have to be a religious person to try and discover what is, and is not true.

The earth is very very old.

From what I have been reading, there was supposedly a flood on planet earth BEFORE the "noah" flood......and that the Noah flood was a centralized regional flood, rather than a world wide flood.

Referencing back to the Adam and Eve story, one of their son's was named Cain (the other: Able). According to the story, Cain killed his brother. So because of that, Cain was banished from the area where they were living.

But these scriptures are telling: Cain said to God, (Genesis 4:14-17)


"Surely you have driven me out this from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from your face; I shall be afugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who find's me will kill me."


The question is, If Adam and Eve and Cain their son (his brother Able, was killled by Cain) were the only people living on earth at that time, why did Cain have to worry about anyone finding him and killing him???


"And the Lord said to him, "therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengence shall be taken on him seven-fold." And the Lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him."


Again, who is the "anyone" God was talking about????


"Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden.
"And Cain "knew" (another word meaning to have sex with) his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son-Enoch."


So once again the question: who was Cain's wife, If the only people who were dwelling on planet earth at that time were Adam, Eve, and Cain.???


Something that makes ya go hmmm.........why is that? I guess they don't teach you that in Sunday school.

[Anders Lindman]

i dont think you can "put" any awareness into the heart, its already aware,


Another example is this: start paying attention to your breath now. I bet you weren't aware of your breath some seconds ago before you read this.

This is an example of directing one's awareness.

And you can focus awareness even further, for example focus your attention to the sound of your breathing.

This is not thinking about something, but the direct awareness of something.

The thinking mind is extremely clever in tricking itself and being cought in thought streams.

[adramelech]

So once again the question: who was Cain's wife, If the only people who were dwelling on planet earth at that time were Adam, Eve, and Cain.???

To be fair, anyone who has done a modicum of research will know that is completely untrue. The number of people who are actually stupid and uninformed enough to believe such an account as literal truth is dwindling every day.

By the way, not to get too off topic here, but that's hardly the juiciest part of the Cain and Abel story.


"When Eve conceived and bore Cain, she said, according to Genesis, "I have added a human being with the help of the Lord." In the case of Abel, however, the text says merely that "next she bore his brother Abel." Genesis thus suggests, although obliquely, that of the two, the birth of Cain involved the deity. Further clarifications of the paternity of Cain is found in The Apocalypse of Adam, a Gnostic document of the First Century AD, wherein Adam reveals to his son Seth that "the Lord, who created us, created a son from himself and Eve, your mother."

If the deity was the father of Cain, while Adam sired Abel, it explains many of the events which happened subsequently; for if the deity were his father, Cain would be semi-divine, part reptilian and more God-like. It would explain his fierce and bloodthirsty nature and account for the murder of his brother Abel. About the birth of Cain, this document observes that Eve "bore a son and he was lustrous." This is a good description of the shiny luminous hide of the reptile gods.

An unusual and somewhat bizarre description of the crime of Cain is also found in this document which narrates some episodes in the life of Adam. There are two versions - the Latin or Vita version, and the Greek or Apocalypse one. In the Vita version, Eve has a vision where it is "as is the blood of our son Abel was in the hands of Cain who was gulping it down in his mouth." The Apocalyptic version is somewhat more dramatic, as Eve tells Adam:

"My Lord, I saw a dream last night, the blood of my son Amilabes, called Abel, being thrust into the mouth of Cain his brother, and he drank it mercilessly. . . . And it did not stay in his stomach but came out of his mouth. They got up to see what happened and found Abel killed by Cain."

The crime of Cain was, apparently, not only to commit fratricide but also to eat the flesh and blood of his brother."

Serpent seed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

;)

[armoured_amazon]

So once again the question: who was Cain's wife, If the only people who were dwelling on planet earth at that time were Adam, Eve, and Cain.???

His sister. When there was only the first generation, brothers would have had to marry sisters or there wouldn’t have been any more generations. Even though Cain, Abel & Seth are specifically mentioned, Adam and Eve had other children. Cain was in the first generation of children ever born so would have received virtually no imperfect genes from Adam or Eve, since the effects of sin and the Curse would have been minimal to start with. In that situation, brother and sister could have married without any potential to produce deformed offspring.

A closer look at the Hebrew word for “wife” in Genesis reveals something readers may miss in translation. It was more obvious to those speaking Hebrew that Cain’s wife was likely his sister. The Hebrew word for “wife” used in Genesis 4:17 (the first mention of Cain’s wife) is ishshah, and it means “woman/wife/female.” It means “from man” (it's a derivation of the Hebrew words ‘iysh' and 'enowsh', which both mean “man.” This can be seen in Genesis 2:23 where the name “woman” (ishshah) is given to one who came from Adam. Thus, Cain’s wife is a descendant of Adam/man. Therefore, she had to be his sister (or possibly niece).

Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch.
Gen.4:16-17

Cain was married before he went to the land of Nod. He didn’t find a wife there but “knew” (had sexual relations with) his wife.

“After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters.”
Gen.5:4

We are only told about all the sons and daughters Adam and Eve had which are important to the story. Cain was important because he was the first born. Was Abel the second? We don't know but he was important because Cain killed him. Seth was important because he took the place of Cain in the line of Christ. Silence about other sons and daughters until Seth does not mean there were none at that time.

Scripture doesn’t tell us how many children were born to Adam and Eve, but considering their long life spans (Adam lived for 930 years—Genesis 5:5), it would seem logical to suggest there were many. Remember, they were commanded to “be fruitful, and multiply” (Genesis 1:28).

The question is, If Adam and Eve and Cain their son (his brother Able, was killled by Cain) were the only people living on earth at that time, why did Cain have to worry about anyone finding him and killing him???

Cain and Abel were born quite some time before the event of Abel’s death. Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old (Genesis 5:3), and Eve saw him as a replacement for Abel (Genesis 4:25). Therefore, the time period from Cain’s birth to Abel’s death may have been 100 years or more—allowing plenty of time for other children of Adam and Eve to marry and have children. By the time Abel was killed, there may have been a considerable number of descendants of Adam and Eve involving several generations.

:)

[intruder]

[QUOTE=adramelech;290108]To be fair, anyone who has done a modicum of research will know that is completely untrue. The number of people who are actually stupid and uninformed enough to believe such an account as literal truth is dwindling every day.

hopefully science, via eugenics can weed out the weaklings to strengthen the strain!!

[cloudgazer]

What I don't understand, is why David Icke has a book called "Infinite Love is the Only Truth" and then has all these later books about oh, all the horrible things in the world.

If infinite love _is_ the only truth, then why bother pay attention to all the war, corruption, disease, negative experiences?

This is a simple question I think.

[razed1]

What I don't understand, is why David Icke has a book called "Infinite Love is the Only Truth" and then has all these later books about oh, all the horrible things in the world.

If infinite love _is_ the only truth, then why bother pay attention to all the war, corruption, disease, negative experiences?

This is a simple question I think.

is it better to identify and fix the wrongs, or just simply ignore and hope they fix themselves??

[chris]

i don't understand why the rest don't get it! they're too locked up in their mind prisons i guess!

If your including me in the rest catigory then I will say that you can dilute a plants white ashes into it's ferment and even with vigarous shaking, it will not mix. Yet add a drop of the plants essential oil and the whole thing will merge simultaniously.

We hear teachings and know the philosophy; we've learnt the application but what the problem is the missing element which animates the whole. You can't tell through the tube that a person has it or not so why bother try and drill it into someone?

Perhaps they have it but cannot articulate it? There is no way of knowing, some people do and some people don't, it's as simple as that.

[amethyst]

To be fair, anyone who has done a modicum of research will know that is completely untrue. The number of people who are actually stupid and uninformed enough to believe such an account as literal truth is dwindling every day.

By the way, not to get too off topic here, but that's hardly the juiciest part of the Cain and Abel story.


"When Eve conceived and bore Cain, she said, according to Genesis, "I have added a human being with the help of the Lord." In the case of Abel, however, the text says merely that "next she bore his brother Abel." Genesis thus suggests, although obliquely, that of the two, the birth of Cain involved the deity. Further clarifications of the paternity of Cain is found in The Apocalypse of Adam, a Gnostic document of the First Century AD, wherein Adam reveals to his son Seth that "the Lord, who created us, created a son from himself and Eve, your mother."

If the deity was the father of Cain, while Adam sired Abel, it explains many of the events which happened subsequently; for if the deity were his father, Cain would be semi-divine, part reptilian and more God-like. It would explain his fierce and bloodthirsty nature and account for the murder of his brother Abel. About the birth of Cain, this document observes that Eve "bore a son and he was lustrous." This is a good description of the shiny luminous hide of the reptile gods.

An unusual and somewhat bizarre description of the crime of Cain is also found in this document which narrates some episodes in the life of Adam. There are two versions - the Latin or Vita version, and the Greek or Apocalypse one. In the Vita version, Eve has a vision where it is "as is the blood of our son Abel was in the hands of Cain who was gulping it down in his mouth." The Apocalyptic version is somewhat more dramatic, as Eve tells Adam:

"My Lord, I saw a dream last night, the blood of my son Amilabes, called Abel, being thrust into the mouth of Cain his brother, and he drank it mercilessly. . . . And it did not stay in his stomach but came out of his mouth. They got up to see what happened and found Abel killed by Cain."

The crime of Cain was, apparently, not only to commit fratricide but also to eat the flesh and blood of his brother."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed

;)

Yes, I've been reading about this...what really happened in the garden of Eden....and it was not simple the story of Eve just eating a little ole piece of fruit that got her and Adam into so much trouble.....the implications of that are far deeper....and a lot more consequences as a result....

I don't know about the "eating of the flesh and blood of his brother" part...but will study further. Got any links about that? (aside from the wiki)

If the deity was the father of Cain, while Adam sired Abel, it explains many of the events which happened subsequently; for if the deity were his father, Cain would be semi-divine, part reptilian and more God-like. It would explain his fierce and bloodthirsty nature and account for the murder of his brother Abel. About the birth of Cain, this document observes that Eve "bore a son and he was lustrous." This is a good description of the shiny luminous hide of the reptile gods.

Hmmm....about Cain being "shiny and lustrous'.....like a reptile....interesting.....

[thirdwave]

yea, silly mistake, allan wattS

smiler names.... WAY different people :)

[razed1]

yea no kiddin

although maybe this isnt the proper thread to ask, but do you know who the woman was that the current alan watt said was a shapeshifter or something?

[cloudgazer]

is it better to identify and fix the wrongs, or just simply ignore and hope they fix themselves??

As long as he focuses on LOVE as the solution. I haven't read a whole book by him yet, I have his new book. I guess when I'm done with it, I'll have to see what the main focus is on..

But I was being more vague about my question really. If these negative experiences are an illusion, which is by saying "infinite love is the only truth". Then it would seem that these negative experiences were meant to distract you from the source of Love, and bring you down to a hopeless state. So I guess I'm saying they shouldn't be focused upon too much, lest you become lost in them.

But if his new book for example can help the average every day person seek love as the answer then that would be good.

[sevenworlds]

What I don't understand, is why David Icke has a book called "Infinite Love is the Only Truth" and then has all these later books about oh, all the horrible things in the world.

If infinite love _is_ the only truth, then why bother pay attention to all the war, corruption, disease, negative experiences?

This is a simple question I think.

Yes, understandable question and this may be why David himself seems to be moving into new territory now and leaving behind a lot of the 5-sense conspiracy stuff.

I think in general though, it's different paths to the same knowledge. Some people aren't ready to hear the fundamental spiritual truth. They need to go through hearing about the level of corruption at the 5-sense level before they are open enough to anything spiritual.

From my experience in this forum, it seems you can't win whichever path you are on. People will criticise someone like Icke for not completely walking the talk (ie. he speaks of how we can overcome aging and illness yet he isn't an example of this) and then on the otherhand when you get someone who focusses solely on the spiritual at it's most simplest like Eckhart Tolle and doesn't offer anything to believe in like anti-aging, it's not satisfying enough for the mind, and they accuse him of disempowering people.

We need to start recognising that both types of people can exist and play a part in the awakening. They are different expressions of the one infinite love.

[thirdwave]

yea no kiddin

although maybe this isnt the proper thread to ask, but do you know who the woman was that the current alan watt said was a shapeshifter or something?

no idea mate... a few threads in Conspiritainment, where Im sure Lizzy or ES will get you clued up...

[chris]

I think Icke contradicts himself the most when he talks at length about these guru's and false teachers and now he's come full circle with his latest book which is going to teach us how to break the illusion...

[pri01]

In his speeches, he talks about THE BIBLE for being one of his references about a great cataclysm that wiped out ancient civilizations. (Noah's ark and the flood).

But later on, why does he diss religions as "prison religions"?

I dont get it. I thought he disses religions but why is he giving credit to the bible if it is supposedly from a "prison religion"?

You're right to question. The Bible is a mixture of truths half-truths and lies. There has to be some factual truth which can be cross referenced for it to be looked at as a credible source. Otherwise it would be completeley dismissed and not taken seriously at all. An example can be the one you mention "the great flood". This is talked about in Genesis all but briefly detailed. However accounts of a great flood have been written down in other cultures such as the Sumerian depiction. Written in cuniform, an ancient form of text, it tells pretty much the same story. The fact that it has been detailed in other ancient civilizations adds credibility to the Bible account and therefore people are likely to believe that the rest of the Bible is fact.

[cloudgazer]

Yes, understandable question and this may be why David himself seems to be moving into new territory now and leaving behind a lot of the 5-sense conspiracy stuff.

I think in general though, it's different paths to the same knowledge. Some people aren't ready to hear the fundamental spiritual truth. They need to go through hearing about the level of corruption at the 5-sense level before they are open enough to anything spiritual.

From my experience in this forum, it seems you can't win whichever path you are on. People will criticise someone like Icke for not completely walking the talk (ie. he speaks of how we can overcome aging and illness yet he isn't an example of this) and then on the otherhand when you get someone who focusses solely on the spiritual at it's most simplest like Eckhart Tolle and doesn't offer anything to believe in like anti-aging, it's not satisfying enough for the mind, and they accuse him of disempowering people.

We need to start recognising that both types of people can exist and play a part in the awakening. They are different expressions of the one infinite love.

That makes sense to me.

[adramelech]

Yes, I've been reading about this...what really happened in the garden of Eden....and it was not simple the story of Eve just eating a little ole piece of fruit that got her and Adam into so much trouble.....the implications of that are far deeper....and a lot more consequences as a result....

I don't know about the "eating of the flesh and blood of his brother" part...but will study further. Got any links about that? (aside from the wiki)



Hmmm....about Cain being "shiny and lustrous'.....like a reptile....interesting.....

That quote isn't from the Wiki article at all (that deals with the Serpent Seed theory of Cain descendants, a related subject). It's from "Flying Serpents and Dragons" by R. A. Boulay.

I would suggest simply reading the actual ancient texts themselves if you want confirmation - it's much more direct. ;)

http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/ot/pseudo/adamnev.htm

[amethyst]

That quote isn't from the Wiki article at all (that deals with the Serpent Seed theory of Cain descendants, a related subject). It's from "Flying Serpents and Dragons" by R. A. Boulay.

I would suggest simply reading the actual ancient texts themselves if you want confirmation - it's much more direct. ;)

http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/ot/pseudo/adamnev.htm

Thanx adramelech :D


You're right to question. The Bible is a mixture of truths half-truths and lies. There has to be some factual truth which can be cross referenced for it to be looked at as a credible source. Otherwise it would be completeley dismissed and not taken seriously at all. An example can be the one you mention "the great flood". This is talked about in Genesis all but briefly detailed. However accounts of a great flood have been written down in other cultures such as the Sumerian depiction. Written in cuniform, an ancient form of text, it tells pretty much the same story. The fact that it has been detailed in other ancient civilizations adds credibility to the Bible account and therefore people are likely to believe that the rest of the Bible is fact.

That's right. The Sumerian depiction is called the "Gilgamesh Epic" or "the great flood"....from what I have read.

[optimus pigpot]

In his speeches, he talks about THE BIBLE for being one of his references about a great cataclysm that wiped out ancient civilizations. (Noah's ark and the flood).

But later on, why does he diss religions as "prison religions"?

I dont get it. I thought he disses religions but why is he giving credit to the bible if it is supposedly from a "prison religion"?

Icke uses some Old Testament stuff such as the flood and Noah which has historical evidence as happening but the Gods are in fact of an "Alien" nature.

The New Testament that surrounds all the Jesus crap is what he dimisses. He also dimisses the fact of any Abrahamic God. Only "aliens" who people thought were Gods as they flew around in their "Chariots of Fire".

The Great Flood or Deluge came about and Icke gives examples in his books about the archealogical evidence to support this.

Icke though makes no claim to support the mind control of the Old Testament(Torahic or Pentateuch / Jewish / Israelite / Messianic Yahwehistic) or New Testament (Biblical) faiths.

Op.

[armoured_amazon]

LOL your interpretation is fricken hilarious *chokes on ciggie*

[craven dark]

Thanx adramelech :D




That's right. The Sumerian depiction is called the "Gilgamesh Epic" or "the great flood"....from what I have read.

Your cat's a hair ball:D

[adramelech]

That's right. The Sumerian depiction is called the "Gilgamesh Epic" or "the great flood"....from what I have read.

The Deluge is recounted in the Epic of Gilgamesh, by Utnapishtim to Gilgamesh. However, the more complete Babylonian flood story can be found in the Atra-Hasis epic.

LOL your interpretation is fricken hilarious *chokes on ciggie*

Try reading something besides modern mainstream religious translation, eh? Start with the Nag-Hammadi texts.

[armoured_amazon]

Try reading something besides modern mainstream religious translation, eh? Start with the Nag-Hammadi texts.

Nah.

[thirdwave]

6,000+ posts and you have no time to write a few sentences?

There is little mistaking it, Icke's work is full of contradictions. Its just a matter of putting up with them. I personally can but I don't blame other people for not.

cant say I agree... can you tell me one in particular that you feel is?

[i_am]

LOL your interpretation is fricken hilarious *chokes on ciggie*

Perhaps you would like to counter with your interpretation rather than continually making this sort of comment about others' interpretations and beliefs.

[amethyst]

Your cat's a hair ball:D

A cute one, oui? ;) ....and smart too

[tim the enchanter]

Nah.

“The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry”

- Richard Dawkins

:o

[drakul]

Icke uses some Old Testament stuff such as the flood and Noah which has historical evidence as happening but the Gods are in fact of an "Alien" nature.

The New Testament that surrounds all the Jesus crap is what he dimisses. He also dimisses the fact of any Abrahamic God. Only "aliens" who people thought were Gods as they flew around in their "Chariots of Fire".

The Great Flood or Deluge came about and Icke gives examples in his books about the archealogical evidence to support this.

Icke though makes no claim to support the mind control of the Old Testament(Torahic or Pentateuch / Jewish / Israelite / Messianic Yahwehistic) or New Testament (Biblical) faiths.

Op.


I love the way the New Agey Priests puff themselves up - `Well hmph hmph - I told you the Bible is just the lying propaganda of a prison religion BUT you see there are SOME things in the Bible that ARE TRUE - you know ETs, REPTILIANS and stuff like that - just `DONT BELIEVE ANY OF THAT JESUS CRAP - that's all'.

`Repeat after me now - Reptilians exist (tho no one's ever seen one I admit) but Jesus never lived....why? Cause the Bible is just a cobbled together hodgpodge of fairytales. There are no heroes who sacrificed themselves for love of mankind...no transcendental miracle workers...no self-realized teachers (unless it's ME of course) all that is crap! But the Reptilians, the reppies exist - the BIBLE proves it!'

[optimus pigpot]

Perhaps you would like to counter with your interpretation rather than continually making this sort of comment about others' interpretations and beliefs.

I have exactly the same opinion.

Well said, the Technical Advisor.

[armoured_amazon]

I love the way the New Agey Priests puff themselves up - `Well hmph hmph - I told you the Bible is just the lying propaganda of a prison religion BUT you see there are SOME things in the Bible that ARE TRUE - you know ETs, REPTILIANS and stuff like that - just `DONT BELIEVE ANY OF THAT JESUS CRAP - that's all'.

`Repeat after me now - Reptilians exist (tho no one's ever seen one I admit) but Jesus never lived....why? Cause the Bible is just a cobbled together hodgpodge of fairytales. There are no heroes who sacrificed themselves for love of mankind...no transcendental miracle workers...no self-realized teachers (unless it's ME of course) all that is crap! But the Reptilians, the reppies exist - the BIBLE proves it!'

Makes ya laugh, doesn't it? :rolleyes:

I posted this in another thread but it's always relevant on this site:

1 Cor.1:18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

[e7304]

removed

[armoured_amazon]

I could equally post sources from mainstream education subjects such as science and history that have such misnomers.

[optimus pigpot]

I could equally post sources from mainstream education subjects such as science and history that have such misnomers.

Pray do tell us!!!

[armoured_amazon]

I shall refrain forthwith from indulging in fruitless discourse.

[optimus pigpot]

I shall refrain forthwith from indulging in fruitless discourse.

Empty vessels make the most noise. I shall refrain forthwith from indulging in fruitless discourse.

Haven't you got anything to say. I thought you would, knowing as much as you do!!!!!!!

[armoured_amazon]

For reasons I do not wish to discuss with you:

I shall refrain forthwith from indulging in fruitless discourse.

[e7304]

Just been listening to Ian Ross Vayro on "radio out there". Interesting research in that he talks about the council of nicea, and how the "priests" came up with 38 gods and 22 lesser gods for the Emperor Constantine, for his new religion. Anyway a "christ" figure was eventually picked and alot of the Mithra worship was placed into this "state" religion but the priests were still argueing over many councils for hundreds of years before the story of Christ came to be.(according to Vayro...from 325ad to about 700ad....even though aspects of it had been around for quite a while ).

Its appears as an built in function that the human psyche needs to "believe" in...some sort of higher god. The question is why. Was it something that was programmed into us by some alien intelligence in order to make us servile?..or is it just nature.We see domesticated animals treating us with almost god like reverence. Were we also "domesticated" to treat some other creatures with the same total trust and reverence?.

Talking about domestication...how did we domesticate cats, dogs and cattle. More important how did we domesticate wheat, corn and other foodstuffs. I have read Lloyd Pye and his brief overview of this and it leaves more questions than answers.

So are we just pets awaiting a master?...it may account for our hunger for religion, and our blind obedience to it. Even our so called "science" has the hallmarks of a "religious" nature. It has high priests and a dogma which if you stray from its doctrine , you wont be burnt at the stake, but you can lose your job and career.

Why do we crave religion?

Project blue beam is a story that says that TPTB will conjure up a second coming or a alien landing. I believe the way we are programmed (if thats what it is ) , we will jump in head first and god worship what ever they throw at us. The NWO and its "universal" religion will not be accepted unless some "miracle" is witnessed by us , the gullible masses.

So hello blue beam. When I first heard this story, I laughed thinking people would not fall for such an event. Now, thinking about it, I am not so sure.

It may never happen. But with our "need to believe" and the MSM total control of most of the planet, it could be pulled off.

I have read and heard too much to accept ANY religion. Truth can be found in many religious books but they appear to lead to a universal mind but no doctrine, which currently , is fine by me.

[madthumbs]

Why do people take Icke so literally? Didn't he say the Queen was 10' tall? It's obviously not true, so why interpret everything else as literal? There's obvious allegory going on.

[drakul]

Just been listening to Ian Ross Vayro on "radio out there". Interesting research in that he talks about the council of nicea, and how the "priests" came up with 38 gods and 22 lesser gods for the Emperor Constantine, for his new religion. Anyway a "christ" figure was eventually picked and alot of the Mithra worship was placed into this "state" religion but the priests were still argueing over many councils for hundreds of years before the story of Christ came to be.(according to Vayro...from 325ad to about 700ad....even though aspects of it had been around for quite a while ).



And you believe this because VAYRO said it? And what are Vayro's PRIMARY REFERENCE SOURCES? Or was he there at Nicea?

Mithra had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. Mithraism was all about
the old gods of BLOOD SACRIFICE. Every depiction of Mithra shows him slitting the throat of a bull.

[celtic isis]

I love the way the New Agey Priests puff themselves up - `Well hmph hmph - I told you the Bible is just the lying propaganda of a prison religion BUT you see there are SOME things in the Bible that ARE TRUE - you know ETs, REPTILIANS and stuff like that - just `DONT BELIEVE ANY OF THAT JESUS CRAP - that's all'.

'


it's not like that at all and you know it. :rolleyes:

The Bible being used as a reference and religion being nothing more than a tool of control, division and divide are completely seperate things.

The bible is an ancient writing of humanity's past passed down from generation to generation therefore it has authority, it may or may not have been stolen and edited to build a false dogma on which to enslave humanity (which it has done successfully) or it was written from the beginning in the knowledge that it was to be used to create a manmade system of religion to control the masses. Either way there is a lot of truth and ancient knowledge wrapped up in the symbolic stories contained in the bible together with hints to humanity's origins.

I never thought that the bible was just the propaganda of the prison religions, where did you get that thought from then? I never once doubted the bible, it has nothing to do with religion being a manmade tool. There is no comparison between the two as they are used to illustrate very different points.

what you said in your post is just mindblowingly wrong drakul my boy. and you know it ;)

My OH knows more about the bible than anyone as he studied it for years, i know he would never come to the conclusions you have.

Basically with the bible it's all there, you just have to know how to read it.

[strider]

Have you read David's newsletter (http://www.davidicke.com/amember/signup.php) this week? It's a must. It's about intellect, and I respectfully think it applies to you.




So how exactly do you read the newsletter, seeing as you're not a premier subscriber?

[cloudgazer]

Look, since people are arguing about christianity.

If the bible was completely true and truly the "word of god"

Then its words wouldn't have been able to be twisted around to justify killing, prejudice, slavery, war, persecution towards non christians, the oppression of women, the oppression of any non christian nation. Etc.

History shows us that the bible is surely flawed. I'm not denying that there's truth in it, but it's not 100% true. And I know that is one of the things christians believe so...

[drakul]

it's not like that at all and you know it. :rolleyes:

The Bible being used as a reference and religion being nothing more than a tool of control, division and divide are completely seperate things.

The bible is an ancient writing of humanity's past passed down from generation to generation therefore it has authority, it may or may not have been stolen and edited to build a false dogma on which to enslave humanity (which it has done successfully) or it was written from the beginning in the knowledge that it was to be used to create a manmade system of religion to control the masses. Either way there is a lot of truth and ancient knowledge wrapped up in the symbolic stories contained in the bible together with hints to humanity's origins.

I never thought that the bible was just the propaganda of the prison religions, where did you get that thought from then? I never once doubted the bible, it has nothing to do with religion being a manmade tool. There is no comparison between the two as they are used to illustrate very different points.

what you said in your post is just mindblowingly wrong drakul my boy. and you know it ;)

My OH knows more about the bible than anyone as he studied it for years, i know he would never come to the conclusions you have.

Basically with the bible it's all there, you just have to know how to read it.


So you believe in Jesus the Christ?

(no)

[drakul]

Look, since people are arguing about christianity.

If the bible was completely true and truly the "word of god"

Then its words wouldn't have been able to be twisted around to justify killing, prejudice, slavery, war, persecution towards non christians, the oppression of women, the oppression of any non christian nation. Etc.

History shows us that the bible is surely flawed. I'm not denying that there's truth in it, but it's not 100% true. And I know that is one of the things christians believe so...

So what is the `NOT true' part of the Bible - Jesus the Christ?

[titurel]

Look, since people are arguing about christianity.

If the bible was completely true and truly the "word of god"

Then its words wouldn't have been able to be twisted around to justify killing, prejudice, slavery, war, persecution towards non christians, the oppression of women, the oppression of any non christian nation. Etc.

History shows us that the bible is surely flawed. I'm not denying that there's truth in it, but it's not 100% true. And I know that is one of the things christians believe so...
Practically anything can be twisted round to mean something else in order to affect this or that agenda, whether it's true or false. For example, if it's cold, some will argue that it's warm. If someone argues that this is black, another will argue that this is white to suit their purposes. George Bush does it all the time. You vehemently argue the Bible isn't 100% true... I disagree... based on my life experience and research, I say it's true but only time will tell!

[armoured_amazon]

You vehemently argue the Bible isn't 100% true... I disagree... based on my life experience and research, I say it's true but only time will tell!

Me too!

Isaiah 25:9 "And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

Hebrews 9:28 . . . so also Christ, who was offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear for a second time apart from sin to those who eagerly await him for salvation.

[thirdwave]

So what is the `NOT true' part of the Bible - Jesus the Christ?

maybe some believe that there was a Jesus and believe that there was an understand of Christ... but do not feel convinced hoe the bible has interlaced the two...

[titurel]

Me too!

Isaiah 25:9 "And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

Hebrews 9:28 . . . so also Christ, who was offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear for a second time apart from sin to those who eagerly await him for salvation.
I agree! Jesus Christ spoke wisdom that I have heard no other man match...

[tinmenace]

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/jesusprotectmefromyourfollowers.jpg

[titurel]

http://spiritual-nature.com/images/jesusprotectmefromyourfollowers.jpg
Actually, judging by the behaviour and conduct of the Vatican, what the man is asking in the above pic is spot on. Organised religion is nothing less than a tool for dividing and conquering people. Religion and politics should never have mixed, which is why Christ wisely stated "My kingdom is not of this world".

[tinmenace]

:D Oh ok :D

[titurel]

:D Oh ok :D



Well, it's a fact, religion and politics should never mix. Glad you agree! :)

[tinmenace]

I don't agree, I just said ok :)

[titurel]

I don't agree, I just said ok :)



You don't agree with what? You think religion and politics should be mixed?

[auron]

I've just wasted 40 minutes of my life reading through this horse shit thread.

Thank you!!

:D

[tinmenace]

You don't agree with what? You think religion and politics should be mixed?

I don't believe in either so I can't answer your question honestly. Nice font color though :)

Stealth mode? Really? :confused:

[titurel]

I don't believe in either so I can't answer your question honestly. Nice font color though

Stealth mode? Really?
I also don't believe in man made religion and politics, but your silly graphic proved nothing!

[weston white]

For some reason this reminded me of that the season 6 episode of the Sopranos where the priest visits Tony in the hospital and tells him about a common misconception and that the Earth is actually only six thousand years old and that man lived with dinosaurs. They sure did drop a lot of bombs in the last season, even stating that Bush used 9/11 for his BS preemptive war and that opening song from the first episode of season 6.

[titurel]

For some reason this reminded me of that the season 6 episode of the Sopranos where the priest visits Tony in the hospital and tells him about a common misconception and that the Earth is actually only six thousand years old and that man lived with dinosaurs. They sure did drop a lot of bombs in the last season, even stating that Bush used 9/11 for his BS preemptive war and that opening song from the first episode of season 6.
"a common misconception and that the Earth is actually only six thousand years old"

it's true that some people believe the earth is only 6,000 years old but i don't see any evidence for that in the Bible. Quite to the contrary, in fact.

[tinmenace]

I also don't believe in man made religion and politics, but your silly graphic proved nothing!

It wasn't mean to prove anything..geeeez dude! :rolleyes:

[titurel]

It wasn't mean to prove anything..geeeez dude!


You're a time waster.

[tinmenace]

You're a time waster.

Oh ok :D

[titurel]

Oh ok
Thanks for being honest! :)

[tinmenace]

:D:D:D:p:p:p

[titurel]

:):):) :p:p:p :D:D:D

[drakul]

I've just wasted 40 minutes of my life reading through this horse shit thread.

Thank you!!

:D


Actually this is a very important thread. There is a huge hippocrisy going on here. On the one hand we are told the Bible is junk and that Jesus Christ never lived. PERIOD. On the other hand the Bible is being used to `prove' far out ET/REPTILIAN theories for which there is virtually no first hand, ancient evidence.

If there is `no evidence' for the existence of Jesus despite 2,000 years of validation - then there is no evidence in the Bible for ET/REPTILIAN DNA Manipulation, Atlantis, etc. etc.

You can't have it both ways.

BTW - I don't believe everything in the Bible is true - especially the Old Testament. However that doesn't mean the NEW Testament is not reflective of the life and teachings of an incredible being - the `SON OF MAN' (Jesus never said he was the Son of God).

[auron]

Actually this is a very important thread. There is a huge hippocrisy going on here. On the one hand we are told the Bible is junk and that Jesus Christ never lived. PERIOD. On the other hand the Bible is being used to `prove' far out ET/REPTILIAN theories for which there is virtually no first hand, ancient evidence.

If there is `no evidence' for the existence of Jesus despite 2,000 years of validation - then there is no evidence in the Bible for ET/REPTILIAN DNA Manipulation, Atlantis, etc. etc.

You can't have it both ways.
I am Jesus, and i still don't give a fuck about this thread. :D

[bigus_dickus]

Actually this is a very important thread. There is a huge hippocrisy going on here. On the one hand we are told the Bible is junk and that Jesus Christ never lived. PERIOD. On the other hand the Bible is being used to `prove' far out ET/REPTILIAN theories for which there is virtually no first hand, ancient evidence.

If there is `no evidence' for the existence of Jesus despite 2,000 years of validation - then there is no evidence in the Bible for ET/REPTILIAN DNA Manipulation, Atlantis, etc. etc.

You can't have it both ways.

i have pointed this out many times, since i first logged on the old "the forum", formerly known as "the David Icke Forum". no one cares.. but still they believe they're on to something, getting closer to the truth, they believe.

[drakul]

I am Jesus, and i still don't give a fuck about this thread. :D

So? What are you wasting your precious time for then? Get lost.

[auron]

Fuck time, fuck debate, fuck religion, and fuck fuck fuck.

I'm also the Anti-Christ too. :D

[bigus_dickus]

Fuck time, fuck debate, fuck religion, and fuck fuck fuck.

I'm also the Anti-Christ too. :D

and fuck you too :)

[drakul]

i have pointed this out many times, since i first logged on the old "the forum", formerly known as "the David Icke Forum". no one cares.. but still they believe they're on to something, getting closer to the truth, they believe.

I am probably much more naive than you. It took me YEARS to catch on to the huge hippocrisy in this thought control game that is being played. For example: the use by New Age authors of MASONIC references to destroy Christianity while at the same time claiming the Masons ARE the Illuminati!

If the Freemasons are the Illuminati (and I am convinced they are), then WHY use their anti Christian propaganda to destroy the people's faith in Christianity?? Over and over I see cited references by Jordan Maxwell, D. Icke, Acharya, Tsarion, et al to works of high level Freemasons such as Albert Pike, Helena Blavatsky (yes there are women in Freemasonry), Albert Churchward, James Churchward, Godfrey Higgins, etc. These people weren't just Freemasons they were 32 and 33rd degree Freemasons.

Why?

[bigus_dickus]

I am probably much more naive than you. It took me YEARS to catch on to the huge hippocrisy in this thought control game that is being played. For example: the use by New Age authors of MASONIC references to destroy Christianity while at the same time claiming the Masons ARE the Illuminati!

If the Freemasons are the Illuminati (and I am convinced they are), then WHY use their anti Christian propaganda to destroy the people's faith in Christianity?? Over and over I see cited references by Jordan Maxwell, D. Icke, Acharya, Tsarion, et al to works of high level Freemasons such as Albert Pike, Helena Blavatsky (yes there are women in Freemasonry), Albert Churchward, James Churchward, Godfrey Higgins, etc. These people weren't just Freemasons they were 32 and 33rd degree Freemasons.

Why?

these are questions that i wanted to ask David Icke after reading his book, watching his videos, etc. (my brother has read "the biggest secret" and introduced David to me, so i started looking at his stuff).

the first reason i joined the forum, was to communicate with David and ask him a few questions, after i found out that emailing him is impossible unless i paid him some money (wtf).

then, this forum was so crazy, that it became highly entertaining, but also a nice source of alternative information and a source of news that we don't see on TV or the papers.

so here i am after 4 years, talking about the same stuff over and over. minds get stuck like flies to flypaper.

[drakul]

these are questions that i wanted to ask David Icke after reading his book, watching his videos, etc. (my brother has read "the biggest secret" and introduced David to me, so i started looking at his stuff).

the first reason i joined the forum, was to communicate with David and ask him a few questions, after i found out that emailing him is impossible unless i paid him some money (wtf).

then, this forum was so crazy, that it became highly entertaining, but also a nice source of alternative information and a source of news that we don't see on TV or the papers.

so here i am after 4 years, talking about the same stuff over and over. minds get stuck like flies to flypaper.


I first read Biggest Secret in 1999. I thought it was fantastic then and I still think it's a mind-blowing political commentary. Excellent piece of work.

However I disagree with Icke regarding his denial of the existence of Jesus Christ and the teachings of Christianity. On the one hand Icke claims that the pagan gods of ancient days requiring blood sacrifice were in fact the reptilians. OK I can accept that.

On the other hand Icke claims that Christianity is simply a `prison religion' devised by the Illuminati. Yet it was Christianity that BANNED blood sacrifice and the gladiatorial games at the Council of Nicea in 325AD. Icke never discusses this, simply referring with contempt to the Council of Nicea. And why did the Christian Council of Nicea BAN BLOOD SACRIFICE? Because the Christians viewed this practice as divination to propitiate and connect with DEMONIC ENTITIES. Exactly. That's exactly what it was.

It seems obvious WHY the Masonic Illuminati are putting out a tidal wave of propaganda denying Jesus Christ - they want to bring back the REPTILIAN pagan gods of blood sacrifice. So why help them? Why push the Lumie anti-Christ propaganda?

Baby - bathwater?

[bigus_dickus]

However I disagree with Icke regarding his denial of the existence of Jesus Christ and the teachings of Christianity. On the one hand Icke claims that the pagan gods of ancient days requiring blood sacrifice were in fact the reptilians. OK I can accept that.

i can't. it's an assumption with no evidence or proof, other than people's fantasies.

On the other hand Icke claims that Christianity is simply a `prison religion' devised by the Illuminati. Yet it was Christianity that BANNED blood sacrifice and the gladiatorial games at the Council of Nicea in 325AD. Icke never discusses this, simply referring with contempt to the Council of Nicea. And why did the Christian Council of Nicea BAN BLOOD SACRIFICE? Because the Christians viewed this practice as divination to propitiate and connect with DEMONIC ENTITIES. Exactly. That's exactly what it was.

Icke has to attribute everything institutionalized or conceptualized, to the global conspiracy. if he doesn't, his conspiracy theory, which can not be proven of course, falls to pieces. he has no other choice than to declare all religions, economic systems, governments, even traditions and customs, as a fabrication of the "elite".

so, if there was no "elite", or "reptilians", everything would be different. how different? no one knows of course, because it's just a fantasy utopia (which means no place, a place that doesn't exist).

his idea is that the "reptiles" create opposing institutions and beliefs, to keep dumb humans fighting and killing each other, while they benefit from this.

his idea is not new, just read books written by freemasons, the very guys Icke calls the "illuminati elite", it's all in there as it has always been.

It seems obvious WHY the Masonic Illuminati are putting out a tidal wave of propaganda denying Jesus Christ - they want to bring back the REPTILIAN pagan gods of blood sacrifice. So why help them? Why push the Lumie anti-Christ propaganda?

Baby - bathwater?

exactly. here is where i addressed the issue:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16815

(of course the thread got dumped by most users, it's not that interesting)

[cloudgazer]

I first read Biggest Secret in 1999. I thought it was fantastic then and I still think it's a mind-blowing political commentary. Excellent piece of work.

However I disagree with Icke regarding his denial of the existence of Jesus Christ and the teachings of Christianity. On the one hand Icke claims that the pagan gods of ancient days requiring blood sacrifice were in fact the reptilians. OK I can accept that.

On the other hand Icke claims that Christianity is simply a `prison religion' devised by the Illuminati. Yet it was Christianity that BANNED blood sacrifice and the gladiatorial games at the Council of Nicea in 325AD. Icke never discusses this, simply referring with contempt to the Council of Nicea. And why did the Christian Council of Nicea BAN BLOOD SACRIFICE? Because the Christians viewed this practice as divination to propitiate and connect with DEMONIC ENTITIES. Exactly. That's exactly what it was.

It seems obvious WHY the Masonic Illuminati are putting out a tidal wave of propaganda denying Jesus Christ - they want to bring back the REPTILIAN pagan gods of blood sacrifice. So why help them? Why push the Lumie anti-Christ propaganda?

Baby - bathwater?

Well the "drinking of jesus blood" ritual has been incorporated into a lot of christian denominations (Omg, I just realized that denomination could be re arranged to: demon-i-nation), that seems like a blood ritual heh.

Also to reply to your earlier post, I don't have anything against jesus. I'm not on here to try and prove he didn't exist or anything like that. The only things I actually really like out of the bible are jesus sayings. But it is pretty much limited to that. And i don't think it's a good idea to worship him either, but anyway that is another rant.,....

[bigus_dickus]

And i don't think it's a good idea to worship him either, but anyway that is another rant.,....

good because he never wanted or liked that.

[barbitone]

you guys are sad....lost the fucking plot


WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!


Psychedelic drugs have done more good in the last four decades than Christianity or any dogmatic\faith based religion has done in 2 thousand years. FACT!

Belief in Christianity is a plague. A curse. A pestilence.
How many people have been killed in the name of the cross etc?
How many have been killed in the name of DMT or mushrooms?


I rest my case.

[auron]

Well said.

How many have been killed in the name of DMT or mushrooms?
Quite a few, me thinks.....

Jun 15, 1521 - The use of hallucinogenic mushrooms and peyote are driven underground as use of "non-alcohol" intoxicants is forbidden by Europeans in Mexico. Catholic priests punish the use of entheogens by native people.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_timeline.php

[kasalt]

There is only one drug of choice found in the Bible: alcohol.

And that reason alone is why it is legally used and abused in the western world while other, far more beneficial substances are outlawed.

Alcohol is one of the more debilitating, mind-dulling, life destroying drugs available. It has brought ruin to the lives of countless millions, and brought millions more to the brink of ruin. By contrast, the peyote and ayahuasca used by Native American societies produce experiences which can lead to genuine enlightenment.

Rather ironic, isn't it. (Not.)

[tinmenace]

There is only one drug of choice found in the Bible: alcohol.

And that reason alone is why it is legally used and abused in the western world while other, far more beneficial substances are outlawed.

Alcohol is one of the more debilitating, mind-dulling, life destroying drugs available. It has brought ruin to the lives of countless millions, and brought millions more to the brink of ruin. By contrast, the peyote and ayahuasca used by Native American societies produce experiences which can lead to genuine enlightenment.

Rather ironic, isn't it. (Not.)

True

[mad as a cat]

There is only one drug of choice found in the Bible: alcohol.

And that reason alone is why it is legally used and abused in the western world while other, far more beneficial substances are outlawed.

Alcohol is one of the more debilitating, mind-dulling, life destroying drugs available. It has brought ruin to the lives of countless millions, and brought millions more to the brink of ruin. By contrast, the peyote and ayahuasca used by Native American societies produce experiences which can lead to genuine enlightenment.

Rather ironic, isn't it. (Not.)
My loving soul mate says "Fantastic post mate! :D".

[titurel]

I personally don't drink at all, but I can find nothing wrong with those who like to drink in moderation, and no where in the Bible does it promote alcoholism!

[tinmenace]

I personally don't drink at all, but I can find nothing wrong with those who like to drink in moderation, and no where in the Bible does it promote alcoholism!

I don't think anything "promotes alcoholism", including TV/Magazine advertisements. Nobody is going to say "drink booze, smell like crap, remember NOTHING, ruin your life, lose loved ones and screw up your health...BE ADDICTED...choose it over all other things".

No, of course not.

"Promotes alcoholism"... :rolleyes:

Alcoholism is the result of addiction to a legalized drug. It's not a choice that people make. Their choice is overpowered when addiction kicks in.

"Promotes alcoholism"... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[kasalt]

I personally don't drink at all, but I can find nothing wrong with those who like to drink in moderation, and no where in the Bible does it promote alcoholism!

Proverbs 31:6b-7:
"Give wine to him whose life is full of trouble. Let him drink and forget how poor he is, and remember his trouble no more."

[titurel]

I don't think anything "promotes alcoholism", including TV/Magazine advertisements. Nobody is going to say "drink booze, smell like crap, remember NOTHING, ruin your life, lose loved ones and screw up your health...BE ADDICTED...choose it over all other things".

No, of course not.

"Promotes alcoholism"... :rolleyes:

Alcoholism is the result of addiction to a legalized drug. It's not a choice that people make. Their choice is overpowered when addiction kicks in.

"Promotes alcoholism"... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


However, most people aren't addicted to alcohol... and if people do get addicted, they only have themselves to question.

[tinmenace]

However, most people aren't addicted to alcohol... and if people do get addicted, they only have themselves to question.

Clearly you don't understand the biology of addiction. But that also doesn't surprise me.

...never mind :rolleyes:

[titurel]

Clearly you don't understand the biology of addiction. But that also doesn't surprise me.

...never mind :rolleyes:


Erm... the only way to become addicted is by drinking irresponsibly. If you drink responsibly in the first place, the problem of alcohol addiction won't arise!

[tinmenace]

Erm... the only way to become addicted is by drinking irresponsibly. If you drink responsibly in the first place, the problem of alcohol addiction won't arise!

Like I said, you don't understand the BIOLOGY of addiction.

Neverrrrrr miiiiiiind :rolleyes:

[titurel]

"Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." - Ephesians 5:18

[kasalt]

"Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." - Ephesians 5:18

"Give wine to him whose life is full of trouble. Let him drink and forget how poor he is, and remember his trouble no more." - Proverbs 31:6b-7

[tinmenace]

"Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit." - Ephesians 5:18




http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/2/3D_emoticon_226.gif

[titurel]

Proverbs 31:6b-7:
"Give wine to him whose life is full of trouble. Let him drink and forget how poor he is, and remember his trouble no more."
This should address your issue:

Does the Bible recommend that the use of alcoholic beverages can be of assistance in fighting depression? Some have misinterpreted Proverbs 31 to this end.

“Does the book of Proverbs recommend “strong drink” for those who are depressed? Please explain Proverbs 31:6-7.”

“Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more” (Prov. 31:6-7; ESV).What does this passage mean? Does it encourage drinking an alcoholic beverage to relieve depression?

When studying any passage, we must consider an important rule of interpretation. We must read passages with difficulties, or those employing figurative language (e.g., in the case of biblical poetry), with extra care.

These passages will not give us a different moral perspective from that which we find elsewhere in Scripture. A difficult text must not be made to contradict clear, easy-to-understand passages.

Remember that the biblical emphasis on alcohol is this:

“Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise” (Prov. 20:1; emphasis added, JJ).Paul warns that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:10; cf. Gal 5:19-21). Depression and poverty are no license to sin.
What does this puzzling passage mean, then? Let us look at the context.
Proverbs 31:1 says,

“The words of King Lemuel. An oracle that his mother taught him.” What did the king’s mother teach him about alcohol? Did she suggest that kings shouldn’t drink (vv. 4-5), but for everyone else it is acceptable (vv. 6-7)? Did she approve of the “Why lie—It’s for beer” slogan—(as one street-corner, cardboard sign read)? Was she offering a program for the down-and-out?

Let’s take a careful look at this motherly advice.

“It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted” (vv. 4-5).The king’s mother advised him to stay away from alcohol. It impairs judgment. It leads to improper decisions. This would not only affect Lemuel as a king, but it would also adversely affect the people he governed.

By way of contrast, there are people who “drink to forget.” “Let them do it,” she says, “but as for you, manage the stress of your position to rule with equitable justice.”

Duane Garrett, Professor of Old Testament at the Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, summarizes the context.

“The queen-mother does not recommend a free beer program for the poor or justify its use as an opiate for the masses; her point is simply that the king must avoid drunkenness in order to reign properly. The comparison to the suffering poor and to their use of alcohol is meant to awaken Lemuel to the duties that go with his class and status rather than to describe some kind of permissible drunkenness” (“Proverbs,” The New American Commentary, Vol. 14. Broadman: Nashville, p. 246).What about the Christian? If a king needs clear thinking and sound integrity, serving the civil interests of people, does not the Christian need sober thinking and virtuous influence in serving the spiritual interests of people (cf. Mt. 5:13-16; 28:19; Eph. 5:18; 1 Pet. 2:11-12)?

http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/read/does_the_bible_recommend_drinking_alcoholic_bevera ges

[kasalt]

"Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit."

You mean like Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, Ted Haggard, Pat Robertson, and Benny Hinn?

[titurel]

You mean like Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, Ted Haggard, Pat Robertson, and Benny Hinn?
Yes. All organised religion is a tool of the elite for the purposes of dividing and conquering people, which is why Revelation tells people to get out of Babylon the Great!

[kasalt]

Yes. All organised religion is a tool of the elite for the purposes of dividing and conquering people, which is why Revelation tells people to get out of Babylon the Great!

You misunderstood me, but nevermind, it's been amusing... :D

[titurel]

You misunderstood me, but nevermind, it's been amusing...
No, I didn't misunderstand you. If those people you named are alcoholics and leaders of Churches (I don't know, I'm in the UK), they are clearly hypocrites (I don't give my support to any organised religion, cult or secret society).

[tinmenace]

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3801/chat60lo9.gif

[titurel]

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3801/chat60lo9.gif
Be careful... you'll get dizzy chasing your own tale round and round! ;)

[kasalt]

Titurel,

You are so convinced of the rightness of your beliefs that when you make false assumptions you run with them. Your response is knee-jerk. When you have developed enough vision to see that there is error in your dogma, you will become a more thoughtful, understanding person.

[weston white]

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3801/chat60lo9.gif

I am surpised somebody has not thought to do this yet for a smilie chasing its own tail. heh.

[titurel]

Titurel,

You are so convinced of the rightness of your beliefs that when you make false assumptions you run with them. Your response is knee-jerk. When you have developed enough vision to see that there is error in your dogma, you will become a more thoughtful, understanding person.
I would say exactly the same of you because you have not addresed the comments I've returned to your posts.

[tinmenace]

Be careful... you'll get dizzy chasing your own tale round and round! ;)

:)

[titurel]

I addressed your point, kasalt:

If those people you named are alcoholics and leaders of Churches (I don't know, I'm in the UK), they are clearly hypocrites (I don't give my support to any organised religion, cult or secret society).

[kasalt]

My loving soul mate says "Fantastic post mate! :D".

Thanks for that, Cat! And if that refers to Auron, thank you Auron...;)

:)

[titurel]

There are 2 parts to the Bible my friend. Right? The Old Testament and the New Testament. The OT is primarily a bloody history of the Jewish people - that's all. The New Testament - what's written in RED - the words of Jesus - is the basis of Christianity. Jesus' words still ring true today and that is why Christianity has lasted for 2,000 years. Not because of the VATICAN priests. The Vatican Illuminati has done everything they can to destroy Christianity and turn it into a `prison religion'.

The Illuminati want to destroy the very memory of Jesus. To erase HIM from existence. WHY? Because it was Christianity that forced their BLOOD SUCKING gods into the proverbial closet, banning their worship in 325AD. And the Illuminati want to bring back their gods of BLOOD SACRIFICE (reptilians of the 4/5 dimension?). How do you do that? You destroy Christianity and bring in the One World Govt and Religion whose god is `MAITREYA'? (Lucifer?)
Well said!

[mad as a cat]

Thanks for that, Cat! And if that refers to Auron, thank you Auron...;)

:)

Yes it does, and he says " :D "

[titurel]

There's no controlled religion in the NT.
True because Christ's kingdom is no part of this world. Also:

"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else." - Acts 17:22-25

[tinmenace]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3907/aefartingre7.gif

All just hot air :D

[titurel]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3907/aefartingre7.gif

All just hot air
It may be to you, but not to others.

[drakul]

Another aspect of this question of hippocrisy concerning Conspiracy writers and their hatred for Christianity - is how they conveniently and completely IGNORE the EXISTENCE AND HISTORY OF THE ORIGINAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH -THE ORTHODOX CHURCH.

WHY? Because Orthodoxy doesn't fit in with the evil sterotype of Christianity that is presented as being the worst thing that ever happened to mankind. This evil stereotype of Christian genocide, burnings, crusades and general enslavement is reserved for the VATICAN. The Orthodox Church didn't do those things so it is simply IGNORED by (typically ANTI-CHRISTIAN) Conspiracy writers. Orthodoxy didn't have witch burnings, it didn't do crusades, it doesn't have a Pope and its priests can marry, etc. Therefore Christian Orthodoxy cannot be as easily VILLIFIED, so they all just pretend 2,000 years of Orthodox/Greek/Slavic history NEVER HAPPENED.

When was the last time you heard a Jordan Maxwell, Tsarion, Acharya, or David Icke in all their railing against Christianity - When have you ever heard them mention the history of the ORTHODOX CHURCH? With the exception of Constantine the Great and the Council of Nicea, which they openly despise. NO they always cite the history of the VATICAN and pretend that is all Christianity ever was and ever will be.

The vast majority of posters here seem completely unaware of the 1,000 years of powerplays and manipulations by the Vatican scheming to DESTROY Orthodoxy and how this has affected history. The 4th Crusade in 1204 that attacked, destroyed and looted the greatest Christian city in the world - Constantinople and how that financed the RENAISSANCE of W Europe. How Vatican brought in Hitler and used that power to attack and commit genocide on Orthodox Christians in the Balkans and Russia , etc. etc.

No the history of the Orthodox Church doesn't fit in with the New Age Conspiracy sterotype of `EVIL CHRISTIANITY' - so they simply pretend that 2,000 years of Orthodox Christian history doesn't exist. A shame because the study of Orthodox Christianity opens a whole new insight into history AND the world of conspiracy.

Remember one thing - The great turning point in the history of mankind began with the Council of Nicea (now Turkey but at that time GREEK) in 325 AD - that BANNED THE GODS OF BLOOD/HUMAN SACRIFICE. The same Christian council of Nicea that all these conspiracy writers speak so contemptuously of. Have you noticed how much they hate it?

[tinmenace]

It may be to you, but not to others.

What others think is none of my business ;) Just as long as they don't try convince me of it...

[armoured_amazon]

True, but whole controlled religions are based on it ;)

Controlled religions pretend to be based on it.

[bigus_dickus]

There is only one drug of choice found in the Bible: alcohol.

ha, you just reminded me of something. do you know why the Russians preferred eastern orthodox over islam? (they had both coices)

because eastern orthodox christianity felt better for alcohol and meat eating than islam which banned both and Russians can't live without vodka! :D

for the same reasons (preferring weed and vegetarianism over alcohol and carnivoreism) some regions or nations clinged to islam over christianity!

[titurel]

All human politics is corrupt and rotten to the core.

[armoured_amazon]

Russians can't live without vodka! :D

Of the Russians I know, that is true!