Jails

[chinsup]

Hi I'm new here been watching davids DVD's for a long time though


Thousands of criminals to be freed as jails are declared 'absolutely full' for first time in history

Jails were declared absolutely full last night for the first time in history.

Even court and police cells were packed as the number of prisoners rose to 82,068 - almost 100 above the official safety limit.

The crisis is expected to trigger the early release of thousands of muggers, burglars and other convicts.

In a desperate attempt to buy time, Jack Straw begged magistrates to imprison fewer offenders.

The Justice Secretary said the courts were giving short jail terms when community punishments would be better.

But magistrates refused point-blank to help him out of the shambles - saying they would continue to hand down whatever sentence they saw fit.

The Magistrates' Association said it did not react kindly to being placed under "pressure" by ministers.

Tory spokesman Nick Herbert said: "The prison system is now in genuine crisis. This is not the fault of magistrates but the result of sheer incompetence by this Government."

The scope of the crisis was revealed in a Ministry of Justice statement that the number of inmates had reached an all-time high of 82,068.

The total operational capacity - based on governors' advice on what is safe for "control, security and proper operation" - is only 81,972, including more than 350 places in police cells and courts.

In a bid to get through the weekend, inmates jailed yesterday were crammed into prison spaces normally considered out of bounds by governors.

But next week even this overspill is likely to be exhausted.

Plans have been drawn up to extend an existing early release scheme called End of Custody Licence, which lets convicts out 18 days before their sentence reaches even the halfway point.


It was implemented last June and has led to the early release of 16,000 inmates - one of whom has since committed a murder.

Extending ECL to 30 days would free hundreds of spaces, but Downing Street is nervous about such a drastic step for fear of yet more damage to Labour's reputation on law and order.

Officials at the Ministry of Justice, however, believe all other options have been exhausted.

In the past week alone, they have bussed scores of inmates to open jails and announced a scheme to send foreign offenders home nine months early.

But the panic measures have either come too late or achieved too little.

Mr Straw was reduced to appealing direct to the courts, echoing a similar Government request in January 2007 to jail only the most dangerous villains, which itself sparked uproar among the judiciary. He said: 'We have 350 magistrates courts in England and Wales.

"If each one ends up sentencing one extra prisoner a week to jail then we have got the increase we face.

"There are effective alternatives in terms of non-custodial penalties which actually have a better record in terms of preventing re-offending."

But Cindy Barnett, chairman of the Magistrates' Association, said the courts must have the freedom to impose sentences as they saw fit.

She added: "We don't use custody lightly, we use it when it is so serious that nothing else can be justified and we must make that individual decision.

"I think it would be very unfortunate if anything was said that is seen as pressure on individual sentences. I think that would be wrong."

Tories accused the Government of "catastrophic mismanagement".

Mr Herbert said: "They have ignored repeated warnings, failed to build adequate capacity and their belated building programme has fallen behind schedule."

He said there must be no extension of ECL.

Colin Moses of the Prison Officers' Association accused ministers of "total mismanagement".

He warned: "The prisons are not safe. We have increased numbers yet again with no change in regime and no increase in staffing. This is risk management at the highest level."

Ministers have promised to build an extra 14,000 prison places by 2014, including giant Titan jails holding 2,500 inmates.

But the prison population is already outstripping projections made as recently as December. It means the building effort is unlikely to be sufficient.


anyone think this is an excuse to build more prisons?

[marpat]

Hi I'm new here been watching davids DVD's for a long time though



anyone think this is an excuse to build more prisons?

What? so they can lock up more people and keep them at tax payers expense? a lot of criminals carry out crime to be locked up because they have such any easy life, no bills, regular meals, shy TV, etc. It is a holiday camp for some of them.

The problem is that due to huge immigration we don't have space. Thousands of these criminals aren't even UK citizens and instead of getting rid of them they just lock them up here and when they are freed they go underground and stay here.

[chinsup]

What? so they can lock up more people and keep them at tax payers expense? a lot of criminals carry out crime to be locked up because they have such any easy life, no bills, regular meals, shy TV, etc. It is a holiday camp for some of them.

The problem is that due to huge immigration we don't have space. Thousands of these criminals aren't even UK citizens and instead of getting rid of them they just lock them up here and when they are freed they go underground and stay here.

Ever heard of concentration camps? funny I read somewhere that the new prisons are gonna be built in areas where the people are prodominatly non-white, and lets not forget we currently have the largest prison building programme on already, this could be an excuse to expand on that, this is a problem-reaction-solution thread after all.

I know what the crime problem is created by.

[marpat]

Ever heard of concentration camps? funny I read somewhere that the new prisons are gonna be built in areas where the people are prodominatly non-white, and lets not forget we currently have the largest prison building programme on already, this could be an excuse to expand on that, this is a problem-reaction-solution thread after all.

I know what the crime problem is created by.

There is plenty of crime going on that is going unpunished because of lack of prison space. You only have to look at any city to see how bad things are getting. It is happening everywhere. Are you suggeting that there is no need for the new prisons? Maybe there is an agenda, I don't know but I would welcome more places to lock up some of these criminals. People are getting away with all sorts now, murderers and paedo's are getting let out early!!

[zarah]

Twice in the same week, for the first time that I can remember, Ive heard the suggestion that the death penalty should be brought back into British law. I would imagine this report is just the latest pulication to try to sell the idea of state murder to the masses.

[deliciously_fresh]

Twice in the same week, for the first time that I can remember, Ive heard the suggestion that the death penalty should be brought back into British law. I would imagine this report is just the latest pulication to try to sell the idea of state murder to the masses.

This is true. Today's 'The Sun' is conducting a telephone poll to get people's opinions on the subject.

[redhead]

What? so they can lock up more people and keep them at tax payers expense? a lot of criminals carry out crime to be locked up because they have such any easy life, no bills, regular meals, shy TV, etc. It is a holiday camp for some of them.

The problem is that due to huge immigration we don't have space. Thousands of these criminals aren't even UK citizens and instead of getting rid of them they just lock them up here and when they are freed they go underground and stay here.

Fuckin hell mate, are you a daily mail reader :D:D

More Jails = Work camps for the disentors

Death Penalty = So they can harvest your organs for profit, thats why the big push getting people healthy, a shrivelled liver, or blackened tarred lung is not worth much i tell you
-

[zarah]

This is true. Today's 'The Sun' is conducting a telephone poll to get people's opinions on the subject.

And if the results arent hugely in favour of bringing it back they'll pretend they were

[marpat]

Fuckin hell mate, are you a daily mail reader :D:D

More Jails = Work camps for the disentors

Death Penalty = So they can harvest your organs for profit, thats why the big push getting people healthy, a shrivelled liver, or blackened tarred lung is not worth much i tell you
-

My personal opinion is that we are too soft on crime in Britain, that's why it now such a dive in some areas. You can hardly even defend yourself these days without the worry that you will be arrested and prosecuted and then have to pay compensation to your attacker. I think you are taking the point a bit too far.

I would be in favour of the death penalty myself. If people were executed for carrying out really bad crimes like murder then why not take their organs? no use to them when they're dead. Do you think that people who carry out bombings, shooting, murder, etc should be allowed to live? why should we give them the chance that they never gave their victims? I would not care one jot if a murder was executed and then his / her organs were used to save somebody elses life. I thought some countries actually do that now. I guess if you don't want your body parts harvested then smoke and binge drink.

And why do we make prison life easy in Britain? inmates get well looked after. It is a fact that they often re-offend just to go back inside. The penal system should be a hard system that punishes people not a holiday camp.

[redhead]

[QUOTE=marpat;280932]
Do you think that people who carry out bombings, shooting, murder, etc should be allowed to live? why should we give them the chance that they never gave their victims? QUOTE]


Well in paying your taxes are you an acomplise to murder? When the governments use your money to bomb, shoot and murder innocent civillians.

The prison system is a joke i know, but its a problem reaction solution scenario if it disintegrates then they will have a good argument to
1. Chip everybody to keep track of suspected criminals,
2. Build even moe prisons where we will end up for being disentors
3. Harvesting organs from sycopaths/peodophiles is a no-no as personallity traits are transferd with the organ, so you could have a nice loving son or daughter one minute and the next......

remember the New World Orders motto "Order Out Of Chaos"

[marpat]

[QUOTE=marpat;280932]
Do you think that people who carry out bombings, shooting, murder, etc should be allowed to live? why should we give them the chance that they never gave their victims? QUOTE]


Well in paying your taxes are you an acomplise to murder? When the governments use your money to bomb, shoot and murder innocent civillians.

The prison system is a joke i know, but its a problem reaction solution scenario if it disintegrates then they will have a good argument to
1. Chip everybody to keep track of suspected criminals,
2. Build even moe prisons where we will end up for being disentors
3. Harvesting organs from sycopaths/peodophiles is a no-no as personallity traits are transferd with the organ, so you could have a nice loving son or daughter one minute and the next......

remember the New World Orders motto "Order Out Of Chaos"

They won't be able to chip everybody due to immense practical barriers. There are so many things that you would need to consider to do such a thing and the infrastructure would be massive, costly, and take a long time to implement. Then what happens if the chip breaks? people will always figure out how to get round stuff like that so it is not a fool proof method of control. The fact is nothing is fool proof in controlling human behaviour.

A lot of people would have to be involved in creating such a situation. Do you think that even gorvernment employees will just bend over and do what they are told? thousands of people would have to be ethically deficient and have no sense of humaity for it to work.

Personally I believe that a lot of these things are fear tactics designed to scare people into believing that the NWO is some overwhelming, all powerful organisation, and that there is no place to hide. What happens if all of this is just a smoke screen to keep suspicious minds distracted while something else is going on? the power of any organisation is in the people within it's ranks, not in it's technology. People change and can change things. At the end of the day it is they who depend upon the average person to do their bidding and that is where the real power is. They would be in some pretty shit if people just downed tools and said no to their plans.

[redhead]

[QUOTE=marpat;281007They would be in some pretty shit if people just downed tools and said no to their plans.[/QUOTE]

I've been advocating this for a while now, we have the power but we choose to give it away through ignorance or manipulation, or chose not to act through fear.

The thing is you say thousands of people would have to be ethically deficient and have no sense of humaity for it to work. This is what there doing with all the poisons in our food, water, electromagnetic polution, violance and sex in the media, there trying there hardest to de-humanise us, so they can pull off everything i talk about.

But on a whole your last post is pure gold mate and i could'nt agree more.

[marpat]

I've been advocating this for a while now, we have the power but we choose to give it away through ignorance or manipulation, or chose not to act through fear.

The thing is you say thousands of people would have to be ethically deficient and have no sense of humaity for it to work. This is what there doing with all the poisons in our food, water, electromagnetic polution, violance and sex in the media, there trying there hardest to de-humanise us, so they can pull off everything i talk about.

But on a whole your last post is pure gold mate and i could'nt agree more.


Personally I believe that human nature will only take so much repression then revolt against authority. Happens a lot in primitive countries but I think westerners have become accustomed to voting then letting people make their choices rather than having to get off their arses and fight oppression.

The thing is that people will only start fighting for their freedom when it is obvious that it is being taken away.

[chicken]

Prisoners 'to be chipped like dogs'


Hi-tech 'satellite' tagging planned in order to create more space in jails.... Civil rights groups and probation officers furious at 'degrading' scheme. [Even for the worst of criminals this is totally an inhumane tactic and it will be used as a platform to chip the rest of us, criminal or not!]


Published: 13 January 2008
By Brian Brady, Whitehall Editor

Ministers are planning to implant "machine-readable" microchips under the skin of thousands of offenders as part of an expansion of the electronic tagging scheme that would create more space in British jails. Amid concerns about the security of existing tagging systems and prison overcrowding, the Ministry of Justice is investigating the use of satellite and radio-wave technology to monitor criminals. [Here we go again folks... just as David Icke and IAM1 have been saying for so long - Prisoners 'to be chipped like dogs' It's the Problem-reaction-solution tactic being applied by the global elitists and every one should/must read this article! If it happens in the UK, you can bet it's coming to the US and/or North America, South America and Asia.]

But, instead of being contained in bracelets worn around the ankle, the tiny chips would be surgically inserted under the skin of offenders in the community, to help enforce home curfews. The radio frequency identification (RFID) tags, as long as two grains of rice, are able to carry scanable personal information about individuals, including their identities, address and offending record.'

The tags, labelled "spychips" by privacy campaigners, are already used around the world to keep track of dogs, cats, cattle and airport luggage, but there is no record of the technology being used to monitor offenders in the community. The chips are also being considered as a method of helping to keep order within prisons. [Yeah, zap them when they don't obey! That's human torture folks! Just like all the cops that taser people and those people dying, these chips have been proven to cause cancer, as well as other physical problems. What's next? Have the implant dissolve into a poison when a person is sentenced to death? Just imagine the sick agenda behind this concept citizens!]

A senior Ministry of Justice official last night confirmed that the department hoped to go even further, by extending the geographical range of the internal chips through a link-up with satellite-tracking similar to the system used to trace stolen vehicles. "All the options are on the table, and this is one we would like to pursue," the source added.

The move is in line with a proposal from Ken Jones, the president of the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), that electronic chips should be surgically implanted into convicted paedophiles and sex offenders in order to track them more easily. Global Positioning System (GPS) technology is seen as the favoured method of monitoring such offenders to prevent them going near "forbidden" zones such as primary schools. [As much as I am against pedophiles and sexual abusers of all kinds, I'm more against these chips being implanted into people! This is a dangerous idea and our law officers won't be able to do their jobs any better by chip implanting criminals because criminals will always find a way to get around the technology!]

"We have wanted to take advantage of this technology for several years, because it seems a sensible solution to the problems we are facing in this area," a senior minister said last night. "We have looked at it and gone back to it and worried about the practicalities and the ethics, but when you look at the challenges facing the criminal justice system, it's time has come."

The Government has been forced to review sentencing policy amid serious overcrowding in the nation's jails, after the prison population soared from 60,000 in 1997 to 80,000 today. The crisis meant the number of prisoners held in police cells rose 13-fold last year, with police stations housing offenders more than 60,000 times in 2007, up from 4,617 the previous year. The UK has the highest prison population per capita in western Europe, and the Government is planning for an extra 20,000 places at a cost of £3.8bn – including three gigantic new "superjails" – in the next six years. [Crime keeps rising because governments are corrupt! And there are NO effective rehabilitation programs for criminals in the prison systems!]

More than 17,000 individuals, including criminals and suspects released on bail, are subject to electronic monitoring at any one time, under curfews requiring them to stay at home up to 12 hours a day. But official figures reveal that almost 2,000 offenders a year escape monitoring by tampering with ankle tags or tearing them off. Curfew breaches rose from 11,435 in 2005 to 43,843 in 2006 – up 283 per cent. The monitoring system, which relies on mobile-phone technology, can fail if the network crashes.

A multimillion-pound pilot of satellite monitoring of offenders was shelved last year after a report revealed many criminals simply ditched the ankle tag and separate portable tracking unit issued to them. The "prison without bars" project also failed to track offenders when they were in the shadow of tall buildings.

The Independent on Sunday has now established that ministers have been assessing the merits of cutting-edge technology that would make it virtually impossible for individuals to remove their electronic tags.

The tags, injected into the back of the arm with a hypodermic needle, consist of a toughened glass capsule holding a computer chip, a copper antenna and a "capacitor" that transmits data stored on the chip when prompted by an electromagnetic reader.

But details of the dramatic option for tightening controls over Britain's criminals provoked an angry response from probation officers and civil-rights groups. Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, said: "If the Home Office doesn't understand why implanting a chip in someone is worse than an ankle bracelet, they don't need a human-rights lawyer; they need a common-sense bypass.

"Degrading offenders in this way will do nothing for their rehabilitation and nothing for our safety, as some will inevitably find a way round this new technology." [That's basically just what I've said. It's wrong and it won't work, it will only make the system worse!]

Harry Fletcher, assistant general secretary of the National Association of Probation Officers, said the proposal would not make his members' lives easier and would degrade their clients. He added: "I have heard about this suggestion, but we feel the system works well enough as it is. Knowing where offenders like paedophiles are does not mean you know what they are doing. [And that's the truth!]

"This is the sort of daft idea that comes up from the department every now and then, but tagging people in the same way we tag our pets cannot be the way ahead. Treating people like pieces of meat does not seem to represent an improvement in the system to me."

The US market leader VeriChip Corp, whose parent company has been selling radio tags for animals for more than a decade, has sold 7,000 RFID microchips worldwide, of which about 2,000 have been implanted in humans. The company claims its VeriChips are used in more than 5,000 installations, crossing healthcare, security, government and industrial markets, but they have also been used to verify VIP membership in nightclubs, automatically gaining the carrier entry – and deducting the price of their drinks from a pre-paid account. [Yeah, VeriChip wants to make money! and they'll do whatever the global elitists dictate too!]

The possible value of the technology to the UK's justice system was first highlighted 18 months ago, when Acpo's Mr Jones suggested the chips could be implanted into sex offenders. The implants would be tracked by satellite, enabling authorities to set up "zones", including schools, playgrounds and former victims' homes, from which individuals would be barred.

"If we are prepared to track cars, why don't we track people?" Mr Jones said. "You could put surgical chips into those of the most dangerous sex offenders who are willing to be controlled."

The case for: 'We track cars, so why not people?'

The Government is struggling to keep track of thousands of offenders in the community and is troubled by an overcrowded prison system close to bursting. Internal tagging offers a solution that could impose curfews more effectively than at present, and extend the system by keeping sex offenders out of "forbidden areas". "If we are prepared to track cars, why don't we track people?" said Ken Jones, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo).

Officials argue that the internal tags enable the authorities to enforce thousands of court orders by ensuring offenders remain within their own walls during curfew hours – and allow the immediate verification of ID details when challenged.

The internal tags also have a use in maintaining order within prisons. In the United States, they are used to track the movement of gang members within jails.

Offenders themselves would prefer a tag they can forget about, instead of the bulky kit carried around on the ankle.

The case against: 'The rest of us could be next'

Professionals in the criminal justice system maintain that the present system is 95 per cent effective. Radio frequency identification (RFID) technology is unproven. The technology is actually more invasive, and carries more information about the host. The devices have been dubbed "spychips" by critics who warn that they would transmit data about the movements of other people without their knowledge.

Consumer privacy expert Liz McIntyre said a colleague had already proved he could "clone" a chip. "He can bump into a chipped person and siphon the chip's unique signal in a matter of seconds," she said.

One company plans deeper implants that could vibrate, electroshock the implantee, broadcast a message, or serve as a microphone to transmit conversations. "Some folks might foolishly discount all of these downsides and futuristic nightmares since the tagging is proposed for criminals like rapists and murderers," Ms McIntyre said. "The rest of us could be next." [The rest of us will be next!]

[marpat]

I don't doubt the technology is there but I think getting it into every person is just too much, and why have everybody tagged when there is no reason? The information would have to travel back and forth, so for over 60 000 000 people would mean huge amounts of bandwidth, super computers, etc. And technology can be unpredicatable at times.
The best people to chip and track are those in important positions. If anything happens to them they can be found (good excuse). It is the minds of decision makers that need controlling not the masses, plus it is infinitely more probable and practical.
Other considerations. To implant a chip requires consent as it is a surgical procedure. Unless your right to choose, and your human rights are removed this cannot be done. This will not be possible unless the is a change of law to remove peoples rights of consent.

[chinsup]

There is plenty of crime going on that is going unpunished because of lack of prison space. You only have to look at any city to see how bad things are getting. It is happening everywhere. Are you suggeting that there is no need for the new prisons? Maybe there is an agenda, I don't know but I would welcome more places to lock up some of these criminals. People are getting away with all sorts now, murderers and paedo's are getting let out early!!

The problem is reoffending the same 100'000 people cause half the crime(fact) prison is too easy they should be like the military one in essex.

I've said this is a problem-reaction-solution thread.

[chinsup]

Twice in the same week, for the first time that I can remember, Ive heard the suggestion that the death penalty should be brought back into British law. I would imagine this report is just the latest pulication to try to sell the idea of state murder to the masses.

the death penalty is terrible so many people where found to be innoccent after they where killed

[chinsup]

My personal opinion is that we are too soft on crime in Britain, that's why it now such a dive in some areas. You can hardly even defend yourself these days without the worry that you will be arrested and prosecuted and then have to pay compensation to your attacker. I think you are taking the point a bit too far.

I would be in favour of the death penalty myself. If people were executed for carrying out really bad crimes like murder then why not take their organs? no use to them when they're dead. Do you think that people who carry out bombings, shooting, murder, etc should be allowed to live? why should we give them the chance that they never gave their victims? I would not care one jot if a murder was executed and then his / her organs were used to save somebody elses life. I thought some countries actually do that now. I guess if you don't want your body parts harvested then smoke and binge drink.

And why do we make prison life easy in Britain? inmates get well looked after. It is a fact that they often re-offend just to go back inside. The penal system should be a hard system that punishes people not a holiday camp.

I think youll find that blair was told the prisons would be full years ago yet he done nothing about it, he created the problem on perpous thats suspicous to me. Next of all we might be soft(britain is not soft compared to continental europe). Jail times have gone up and conviction rates have aswell and the police although coverd in beurocracy have more powers. Labour have created 3000 more crimes since they've been in power. if you look at the british crime survey which is conducted by interviewing random people on there experiences crime has fallen. our problem with crime came about with margret thatcher when she created enormous amounts of poverty which has continued to this day.

[chinsup]

I don't doubt the technology is there but I think getting it into every person is just too much, and why have everybody tagged when there is no reason? The information would have to travel back and forth, so for over 60 000 000 people would mean huge amounts of bandwidth

they have more then enough bandwidth with Galileo which is 5x faster then GPS they are already chipping prisoners and people are going to prison for the most ridiculous reasons such as car offences ect.

[marpat]

they have more then enough bandwidth with Galileo which is 5x faster then GPS they are already chipping prisoners and people are going to prison for the most ridiculous reasons such as car offences ect.

Where is the source of you information? people must have consented to the chip on conditions of release or something.

Are you telling me that you could chip the population and this would not be a bandwidth problem? there are at least 60,000,000 people in Britain, not counting all the people outside of the system.

[chinsup]

Where is the source of you information? people must have consented to the chip on conditions of release or something.

Are you telling me that you could chip the population and this would not be a bandwidth problem? there are at least 60,000,000 people in Britain, not counting all the people outside of the system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_positioning_system
Galileo a very powerful system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6WTmvq-f0c

government servers review

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7258934.stm

i can back up all my claims tell me with ones i can get futher info on these aswell

[chinsup]

You say people must give consent, but this chipping legislation might override those laws they have all kinds of laws that override rights.

I can't be sure i haven't read the legislation.

I don't even think your into this NWO stuff, because you seem to think that forever the government will have to obey laws.

[marpat]

You say people must give consent, but this chipping legislation might override those laws they have all kinds of laws that override rights.

I can't be sure i haven't read the legislation.

I don't even think your into this NWO stuff, because you seem to think that forever the government will have to obey laws.


Poor defense. If you can find a single person who has been secretly chipped then you will have exposed such a conspiracy. Know you of such a person? I don't believe in anything which cannot be questioned and prove true or false, and that includes the NWO. In the mean time I keep and open but questioning mind.

[deliciously_fresh]

And if the results arent hugely in favour of bringing it back they'll pretend they were

Yep. There's an article today in the 'Sunday Mirror' written by Carole Malone suggesting that we should bring back hanging. The 'death penalty' debate is gaining momentum imo.

[chinsup]

Poor defense. If you can find a single person who has been secretly chipped then you will have exposed such a conspiracy. Know you of such a person? I don't believe in anything which cannot be questioned and prove true or false, and that includes the NWO. In the mean time I keep and open but questioning mind.

They will eventually be chipping all the infrastructure is in place, your the one with the bad defence, you tell me 'they wont have enough bandwidth', then you somehow wont accept they will make exceptions in there laws witch they do all the time.

Even an MOD document says we'll be chipped.

If you can get the propper document up(you have to login at the MOD), they even tell us there gonna ethnically cleans the nation.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/090407bioweapons.htm