The human spiritual being need.

[espii]

Wikipedia definition :


"Peak experience is a term used to describe certain extra-personal and ecstatic states, particularly
ones tinged with themes of unification, harmonization and interconnectedness. Participants characterize
these experiences, and the revelations imparted therein, as possessing an ineffably mystical (or overtly religious)
quality or essence."

Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Self-transcendence

At the top of the triangle, self-transcendence is also sometimes referred to as spiritual needs.

Maslow believes that we should study and cultivate peak experiences as a way of providing a route to achieve personal growth, integration,
and fulfillment. Peak experiences are unifying, and ego-transcending, bringing a sense of purpose to the individual and a
sense of integration. Individuals most likely to have peak experiences are self-actualizing, mature, healthy,
and self-fulfilled. All individuals are capable of peak experiences. Those who do not have them somehow depress or
deny them.

Maslow originally found the occurrence of peak experiences in individuals who were self-actualizing, but later found
that peak experiences happened to non-actualizers as well but not as often:

I have recently found it more and more useful to differentiate between two kinds of self-actualizing people, those who
were clearly healthy, but with little or no experiences of transcendence, and those in whom transcendent experiencing was
important and even central… It is unfortunate that I can no longer be theoretically neat at this level. I find not only
self-actualizing persons who transcend, but also nonhealthy people, non-self-actualizers who have important transcendent
experiences. It seems to me that I have found some degree of transcendence in many people other than self-actualizing
ones as I have defined this term…[3]"


As far as i understand, humans will usually meet the being need in these manners:


#1 Positive Peak experiences : brings ultimate joy, happiness, fulfillment, purpose etc... in a positive way, which gives
spiritual growth.

#2 Fun : can bring joy, happiness, pleasure, up to a certain point.

#3 Addictions ( which can be negative peak experiences ) : Brings a temporary high, then when the effects wear off, one hits emotional lows, and finds himself feeling empty and miserable.


This is what im still trying to figure out:


What happens when one finds himself in a situation where there are no positive or negative peak experiences, or any kind of fun, nothing, how can one transcend that human being need, when emptiness, loss of purpose, and low emotions set in ?

[tru3]

This is what im still trying to figure out:


What happens when one finds himself in a situation where there are no positive or negative peak experiences, or any kind of fun, nothing, how can one transcend that human being need, when emptiness, loss of purpose, and low emotions set in ?

interesting. could you be a little more specific? :)

[edelweiss pirate]

What happens when one finds himself in a situation where there are no positive or negative peak experiences, or any kind of fun, nothing, how can one transcend that human being need, when emptiness, loss of purpose, and low emotions set in ?

That's a good question.... One can find a tolerable and enjoyable level of awareness in the material world... Music, a sense of your own potenial for life enjoyment, positive empowerment (a lil bit of mild weed on occasion if you care for it)...

The 'dead' feeling is part of the path but not the end in itself. You must pass this zone, or rather return from it, in order to live a happy and enjoyable life... This is the underworld Orpheus traversed, or the Djed of the ancient Egyptians... The glandular system becomes changed and the soul seems to rattle somewhat hollowly in the body, sex drive disappears, memories of events in life start to fade as the mind becomes empty, it can be a frightening experience, a little like that Carey movie 'Beautiful sunshine of the spotless mind" You really find yourself 'hanging on' to memories of a first girlfriend or a loving encounter, which must be challenged during the profound changing in 'human' perpectives...

The ancient Egyptians always stressed the the sun king/initiate must RETURN to life. This was the whole point. The Pharaoh only achieved union with RE and became a companion of Horus, if he made the return journey: (Pyramid texts)

"Live O Unas. You are not dead but alive!"

And here is an interesting parallel of having 'eaten' the knowledge, as in the Edenic foribidden fruit.

"He[4] hath eaten the knowledge of god every, [his] existence is for all eternity"

[naturesdaughter]

It is interesting to me that you bring up the idea of living in purgatory so to speak where there are no highs and lows. I went to a doctor once because i felt tired frequently and he put me on an antidepressant, but I couldn't feel any extremes beyond okay, not to mention that sex no longer worked for me. Quacks are playing everyday with people's spirtual and emotional realities with no real thought as to the consequences.

[espii]

That's a good question.... One can find a tolerable and enjoyable level of awareness in the material world... Music, a sense of your own potenial for life enjoyment, positive empowerment (a lil bit of mild weed on occasion if you care for it)...

The 'dead' feeling is part of the path but not the end in itself. You must pass this zone, or rather return from it, in order to live a happy and enjoyable life... This is the underworld Orpheus traversed, or the Djed of the ancient Egyptians... The glandular system becomes changed and the soul seems to rattle somewhat hollowly in the body, sex drive disappears, memories of events in life start to fade as the mind becomes empty, it can be a frightening experience, a little like that Carey movie 'Beautiful sunshine of the spotless mind" You really find yourself 'hanging on' to memories of a first girlfriend or a loving encounter, which must be challenged during the profound changing in 'human' perpectives...

The ancient Egyptians always stressed the the sun king/initiate must RETURN to life. This was the whole point. The Pharaoh only achieved union with RE and became a companion of Horus, if he made the return journey: (Pyramid texts)

"Live O Unas. You are not dead but alive!"

And here is an interesting parallel of having 'eaten' the knowledge, as in the Edenic foribidden fruit.

"He[4] hath eaten the knowledge of god every, [his] existence is for all eternity"

Im not sure if i really understand.

As a human bieng in this reality, i have a being need dependence.

I want to be free from that being need, be in control of myself and emotions, be able to rule my spirit.

How is it done ? do i let go of everything till i "die" then i suddenly wake up from or return from that "death" ? how long does it take ? what about my physical needs ?

[tru3]

As a human bieng in this reality, i have a being need dependence.

I want to be free from that being need, be in control of myself and emotions, be able to rule my spirit.

How is it done ? do i let go of everything till i "die" then i suddenly wake up from or return from that "death" ? how long does it take ? what about my physical needs ?

sorry, i'm still unclear on the phrase 'being need dependance'.

if i take your meaning, you think needing people is weak? if so, i completely understand where your coming from. i'd like to be of service, but i'm just not getting it. sorry. :confused: i don't want to waste your time. try again.

The 'dead' feeling is part of the path but not the end in itself. You must pass this zone, or rather return from it, in order to live a happy and enjoyable life... This is the underworld Orpheus traversed, or the Djed of the ancient Egyptians... The glandular system becomes changed and the soul seems to rattle somewhat hollowly in the body, sex drive disappears, memories of events in life start to fade as the mind becomes empty, it can be a frightening experience, a little like that Carey movie 'Beautiful sunshine of the spotless mind" You really find yourself 'hanging on' to memories of a first girlfriend or a loving encounter, which must be challenged during the profound changing in 'human' perpectives...

this is the dark night of the soul. i've studied spiritual sources around the world, and it's a common theme. unless one is an "avatar", one seems to be unable to avoid this cycle when faced with the choice of a deeper experience of Reality. casteneda certainly brings the point home. the book that really helped me drop into a better sense of my life in the context of participation of the dreamworld and "archetypes ( search the cp for straw dogs)" was "hero with a thousand faces", by joseph campbell. check it out. i saw a tv special with bill moyers and campbell in 1988. he pulled a dollar bill out of his pocket and starting riffing on the symbolism for about 10 minutes. it was fascinating. at that time i knew zip about masonry. kind of started me on this path of enquiry.

actually if you've ever seen star wars, you've read a chapter in "hero". ;-)

[espii]

sorry, i'm still unclear on the phrase 'being need dependance'.

if i take your meaning, you think needing people is weak? if so, i completely understand where your coming from. i'd like to be of service, but i'm just not getting it. sorry. :confused: i don't want to waste your time. try again.



this is the dark night of the soul. i've studied spiritual sources around the world, and it's a common theme. unless one is an "avatar", one seems to be unable to avoid this cycle when faced with the choice of a deeper experience of Reality. the book that really helped me drop into a better sense of my life in the context of participation of the reamworld and "archetypes ( search the cp for straw dogs)" was "hero with a thousand faces", by joseph campbell.

actually if you've ever seen star wars, you've read a chapter in "hero". ;-)


It's the spiritual being need. The deep rooted need to experiance life or reality in the best possible ways, which can be peak experiances, "fun" experiances, or the negative peak experiances ( addictions ). The purpose of life. ( it might also be to fully express yourself and grow )

[Anders Lindman]

What happens when one finds himself in a situation where there are no positive or negative peak experiences, or any kind of fun, nothing, how can one transcend that human being need, when emptiness, loss of purpose, and low emotions set in ?

The healthy state of no peak experience should be peace. Peace as a state of clarity, aliveness, and balanced awareness. Having a constant negative midpoint is pathological. And essentially all people are trapped in a negative midpoint, which means that in the absence of peak experiences, life feels dull, boring, empty or even worse. That is actually not a balanced midpoint but rather a constant low depression-like state.

[espii]

The healthy state of no peak experience should be peace. Peace as a state of clarity, aliveness, and balanced awareness. Having a constant negative midpoint is pathological. And essentially all people are trapped in a negative midpoint, which means that in the absence of peak experiences, life feels dull, boring, empty or even worse. That is actually not a balanced midpoint but rather a constant low depression-like state.

When the spiritual being need is not met... then the void and loss of purpose set in.... you stop growing, it's stagnation, and it feels like dying.

[tru3]

It's the spiritual being need. The deep rooted need to experiance life or reality in the best possible ways, which can be peak experiances, "fun" experiances, or the negative peak experiances ( addictions ). The purpose of life.


ah! thank you! :) so i was completly off track. ok.

the hiearchy of needs says that when my children's bellies are empty, it's hard to be spiritual. same with emotional issues; i can say i'm enlightened until i'm blue in the face, but if my relationships are dysfunctional, my livelihood is in chaos, and i'm in contant fear or resentment about it, then i'm just flapping my gums.

in this day and age, there are food programs, but that doesn't address the sense of alienation this kind experience produces. some people have overcome tremendous life challenges to become examplars of peace and compassion. but it is demonstratably rare.

i find it best to take a day at a time. the path is the goal, for me. my guru is the wisdom mirror of life, which always puts the right and perfect thing in my path. i don't try to make anything happen any more; my intention is to flow with it. i spent years trying to make something happen, "shoulding" on myself, instead of accepting where i was, really dropping into all of it, the joy and the despair.

i believe it was jimijams who said it feels like dropping into the cockpit of your own bodymind, something to that effect. there's really someone behind the wheel.

[espii]

ah! thank you! :) so i was completly off track. ok.

the hiearchy of needs says that when my children's bellies are empty, it's hard to be spiritual. same with emotional issues; i can say i'm enlightened until i'm blue in the face, but if my relationships are dysfunctional, my livelihood is in chaos, and i'm in contant fear or resentment about it, then i'm just flapping my gums.

in this day and age, there are food programs, but that doesn't address the sense of alienation this kind experience produces. some people have overcome tremendous life challenges to become examplars of peace and compassion. but it is demonstratably rare.

i find it best to take a day at a time. the path is the goal, for me. my guru is the wisdom mirror of life, which always puts the right and perfect thing in my path. i don't try to make anything happen any more; my intention is to flow with it. i spent years trying to make something happen, "shoulding" on myself, instead of accepting where i was, really dropping into all of it, the joy and the despair.

i believe it was jimijams who said it feels like dropping into the cockpit of your own bodymind, something to that effect. there's really someone behind the wheel.

I don't believe in a firm hiearchy, i believe more in a dynamic system of needs,
since each of us is apparantly unique so we might have different sets of priorities.

"and those in whom transcendent experiencing was
important and even central…"

I believe we are a spiritual being, having a physical experiance, not the other way around. Is the real human purpose to sustain the physical spacesuit called the human body ? Can a human being be satisfied by only sustaining the physical spacesuit ? I believe not.

Why am i seeking this ? Maybe because i don't want to be a slave to my being need. Or maybe it's because i live in hell and there is no way for me
at this time to properly meet that need, and so i am being punished for it and as a result, i suffer.

[tru3]

I don't believe in a firm hiearchy, i believe more in a dynamic system of needs,
since each of us is apparantly unique so we might have different sets of priorities.

this is true enough. i was strictly speaking with respect to maslow.

I believe we are a spiritual being, having a physical experiance, not the other way around. Is the real human purpose to sustain the physical spacesuit called the human body ? Can a human being be satisfied by only sustaining the physical spacesuit ? I believe not.

i agree. that's what maslow is essentially saying. once survival needs are met, humans continue to look for meaning. the ill. want us to be focused on survival needs, and want us to believe we are just our bodies, and that even the mind is somatic based. hence, all the pressure to survive that is presented in the "shadow play" of world events and economic imperialism.

Or maybe it's because i live in hell and there is no way for me
at this time to properly meet that need, and so i am being punished for it and as a result, i suffer.
20-03-2007 09:53 PM

oh. that hurts. it hurts me physically when i read these words. they hit me in the gut. i've felt like that so much of my life. it has taken me years to understand that this is a LIE!

"you are god's guiltless son, in whom he is well pleased." please, take that to heart. this suffering comes from expectations, and programming.

it's not your fault.
it's not your fault.
it's not your fault.

and, only you have the Power to change that belief. and you can, trust me. :) all it takes is the willingness to let go of it.

everything flows from that decision.

[espii]

"this suffering comes from expectations, and programming."

Are you saying that this spiritual need to have the best experiances in this reality, grow and fully express yourself is an illusion ?

Are we supposed to be satisfied just because we are conscious and exist ?

I don't think there is "staying the same".

Either your are growing or you are dying.

[espii]

I think that some people might misunderstand what im trying to explain.

It's not about expectations or programming, trying to "be something" and live up to societies expectations.

It's rather about our spiritual existential need to have the best possible experiances in this reality "peak experiances" (or having a good or great time, fun ) that would make us fullfilled, grow, fully express ourselves and have a purpose.

When that need is not met, then the void or emptiness set in, being unfulfilled, low emotions, loss of purpose, as if you were dying.

For an example, when you are a child your main urge and drive was to go out meet friends, play and have fun and if pushed far enough it would lead you to a positive peak experiance that would make you fulfilled.

Now when you were grounded, you had that feeling of frustration, emptiness, boredom, loneliness coming from being put in a situation where you were deprived to go out and have a peak experiance. As a child peak experiances made you healthy, happy, true, and fulfilled without the need for money in the bank account or status.

Does any of this make sense ?

[foreverspirit]

Espii:


Bravo!! Well Said!!

[i am all i am]

This is what im still trying to figure out:

What happens when one finds himself in a situation where there are no positive or negative peak experiences, or any kind of fun, nothing, how can one transcend that human being need, when emptiness, loss of purpose, and low emotions set in ?

G'day Espii,

Maybe this quote from 'The Fifth Sacred Thing', by Starhawk, will give you some insight to your question. ?????

DECLERATION OF THE FOUR SACRED THINGS

The earth is a living, concious being. In company with cultures of many different times and places, we name these things sacred: air, fire, water and earth.

Whether we see them as the breath, energy, blood, and body of the Mother, or as the blessed gifts of a Creator, or as symbols of the interconnected systems that sustain life, we know that nothing can live without them.

To call these things sacred is to say that they have a value beyond their usefulness for human ends, that they themselves become the standards by which our acts, economics, our laws, and our purposes must be judged. No one has the right to appropriate them or profit from them at the expense of others. Any government that fails to protect them forfeits its legitimacy.

All people, all living things, are part of the earth, and so are sacred. No one of us stands higher or lower than any other. Only justice can assure balance: only ecological balance can sustain freedom. Only in freedom can that fifth sacred thing we call spirit flourish in its full diversity.

To honour the sacred is to create conditions in which nourishment, sustenance, habitat, knowledge, freedom and beauty can thrive. To honour the sacred is to make love possible.

To this we dedicate our curiosity, our will, our courage, our silence and our voices. To this we dedicate our lives.


With LOVE.

[espii]

Thanks for the feedback.

I believe the spiritual "bieng need" is a good thing, since it is here to remind us of our purpose and drives us towards happiness, joy, and fulfillment.

However there are certain situations in life when that need can not be met,
and when that happens one can experiance a void, a loss of purpose, as if dying
like i said earlier.

Lets say you find yourself in a situation where you are locked in a cell, solitary confinement, and all you have is your bed, water and food.

How do you solve or transcend that bieng need ?

Im still looking for an answer...

[i am all i am]

Thanks for the feedback.

I believe the spiritual "bieng need" is a good thing, since it is here to remind us of our purpose and drives us towards happiness, joy, and fulfillment.

However there are certain situations in life when that need can not be met,
and when that happens one can experiance a void, a loss of purpose, as if dying
like i said earlier.

Lets say you find yourself in a situation where you are locked in a cell, solitary confinement, and all you have is your bed, water and food.

How do you solve or transcend that bieng need ?

Im still looking for an answer...

G'day Espii,


I'VE HEARD YOUR CALL

I'VE HEARD YOUR CALL,
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT,
I'VE HEARD YOUR CALL,
TO GIVE YOU LIGHT.

SOMETIMES IT'S DARK,
WHEN YOU LOOK AROUND,
NO SPIRITUAL SPARK,
NO FRIEND TO BE FOUND.

SO LOOK WITHIN,
FOR THE LIGHT TO FIND,
YOUR TRIP TO BEGIN,
WITH LOVE IN YOUR MIND.

AND THEN YOU WILL SEE,
THE LIGHT OF YOUR HEART,
AND KNOW ETERNALLY,
FROM LOVE DID YOU START.

FOR YOU ARE THE LIGHT,
THAT SHINES FROM INSIDE,
A SPIRIT IN FLIGHT,
YOUR LOVE IS SUPPLIED.


If I don't go within, I go without.

The answers are all inside of you.


With LOVE.

[azure]

Lets say you find yourself in a situation where you are locked in a cell, solitary confinement, and all you have is your bed, water and food.

How do you solve or transcend that bieng need ?

You don't need anything outside of you to experience joy, bliss, ecstacy -- or any feeling you want for that matter -- if that's what you mean by "being need". Reliance on the external is the definition of dependency and addiction.

It's just a matter of internal control. Learn to control and gain flexibility in your own states of consciousness. Various forms of meditation, NLP, there are innumerable methods.

In only a short time, anyone can learn to experience wanton happiness for no reason whatsoever, regardless of circumstances. How different would the world be if that were the first thing taught in childhood?

[foreverspirit]

Lets say you find yourself in a situation where you are locked in a cell, solitary confinement, and all you have is your bed, water and food.

How do you solve or transcend that bieng need ?

Im still looking for an answer...


ESPII:

Then you my friend are somewhat luckier than most. You are in a an ideal position for the peiod of 100 days not to have to deal with the constant barrage of negative messages most are exposed to on the outside.

You must use your computer to first understand the reason you are in the position you are in is due to all the crappola beliefs/messages you have been fed all life long. Read up on "the subconscious" from every angle.

Once you have done that, you will need to control ALL your thoughts. You will find it very easy as there are many free so called "subliminal" programs on line. You can change the feature so that you can see the actual messages. Keep you eyes on the messages 24/7. You do have the time!!! Do you have the desire. There are many with "Pictures" features. Get on the net and grab pictures of nature, flowers, trees, beautiful places you'd love to visit when you come out, lovely hotel rooms etc., you catch ma drift!!

Also you can change the statements on these programs to suit your own personal needs. When you come out, not only do you want to see beautiful places but you'd also like to be the beautiful person you really are - previous to the horrible messages you were fed with upon your arrival on earth.

Forget spending time for the moment on all the alien, illuminati, crappola for now. You already know what you need to. You mind/brain/subconscious will take all this constructive new information and must and will create a beatufiul new illusion for you.

After you are completely free you can and will learn (as all of us) what next we need to know.

First things first. You're already on track. Remember icke even states, the way they have controlled us thus far is by programming what goes in our eyes and ears.

Always remember don't worry about the future. The only moment we have is NOW!! Keep your mind focused on what you need to do NOW! Keep giving thanks for all the good you have NOW! Think you don't? Think again, you'll always find something. Again, your only job is to keep feeding yourself new info, new beliefs. Your inner power/wisdom will do the rest. But it's counting on you to give it the proper directions/information.

You'll do well, concentrate, you must and will succeed and be free.

FORGET ABOUT MEDITATION - SEE WHAT "DICK SUTPHEN" SAYS ABOUT THAT!! FORGET ABOUT BEING OM SWAHAAAM CONTENTMENT - WHERE'S THE FREAKING GOOD IN INNER CONTENTMENT, WHEN THE GOAL IS TO MANIFEST AND ENJOY IT- GO FOR YOUR RIGHT AS A CREATOR TO BE FREE - YEAH YOU GOT IT, IT'S ALL ILLUSION , WHAT THE FREAK - CREATE YOURSELF A FUN - LOVING - FEELING ONE!!)

(REMEMBER THE MOVIE: GET RICH or DIE TRYIN' - HE KEPT FOCUSED ON HIS GOAL, FOCUSSING HIS MIND - EXERCISE IS ALSO VERY, VERY IMPORTANT)

[espii]

You don't need anything outside of you to experience joy, bliss, ecstacy -- or any feeling you want for that matter -- if that's what you mean by "being need". Reliance on the external is the definition of dependency and addiction.

It's just a matter of internal control. Learn to control and gain flexibility in your own states of consciousness. Various forms of meditation, NLP, there are innumerable methods.

In only a short time, anyone can learn to experience wanton happiness for no reason whatsoever, regardless of circumstances. How different would the world be if that were the first thing taught in childhood?

I have that problem "Reliance on the external is the definition of dependency and addiction." It's restricting my freedom to rule my spirit-self and emotions.

"Learn to control and gain flexibility in your own states of consciousness."

How do you control or overcome "the void" total emptiness ?

How does meditation work ? and what is it's goal ?

Is it possible not to depend or have to experiance joy or happiness and be OK ?