Do you have to die to ascend?

[halebox]

With talk of the coming ascension do you have to die to slip in to the 4th dimension? Whats your opinion will you still be alive and on earth or will you vanish in thin air?

[cl2008]

I dont think 2012 is the end of the world. (50-50 on it lol)

It could be a dawn of enlightenment for all mankind. Nobody is gonna die. Everyone will be in a state of happiness. (I hope)

I hope you dont try to kill yourself just to ascend.

[amgard]

I'd feel that we need to "die to our ego self" to ascend. If we don't do that, then we won't ascend.

Just dying never turned a human into a saint, and likewise just dying won't lead to ascension. If people just die, they're just dead. Something more than dying is needed in order to ascend.

[kblood]

Death seems to me the banishment from this dimension. From this dimension it seems to me that we can enter the fourth dimension, with OBEs or something similar. To ascend seems to me, returning to oneness, becomming another state of being. Who knows, maybe still return to the physical plane is something more. A planet, star, solarsystem, galaxy? Something closer to a human being? We cant really know. Seems to me that "going to heaven" is to either reincarnate, or return to spirit. I guess the most like is that there is spirit planes. The "physical" shape or state of that plane or realm is hard to grasp though. I believe it could be tied to this realm in some way.

[amgard]

Yes, kblood, I agree that ascension is returning to Oneness. And I agree we can't know how we will return. But most people choose to be on this planet - they want to play here - so they just return and are re-born to play some more.

To me there is the physical world we see with our eyes. Then there is the inner realm of emotions and thoughts - which is also the realm of the "dead" and of those beings who are contacted by most mediums. And beyond all of this, beyond soul, dimension, and consciousness is the realm of Spirit, Oneness, or Reality, which is the goal of the mystical path. And if we just die, we just reincarnate and go through the cycle again. But those who seek to ascend are to me reaching upwards to Spirit and Oneness to produce conditions in which they are not trapped by the physical or subtle worlds at all. This is probably stuff you already know, anyway. Old stuff.

So I was just trying to point out to the original poster that ascension is not connected with death. While death will get us into a "4th dimension," that isn't going to matter if we just wind up reincarnating back here in the physical. As some people put it, we have to die before our physical death to ascend.

[lateral_v]

Yes, kblood, I agree that ascension is returning to Oneness. And I agree we can't know how we will return. But most people choose to be on this planet - they want to play here - so they just return and are re-born to play some more.

To me there is the physical world we see with our eyes. Then there is the inner realm of emotions and thoughts - which is also the realm of the "dead" and of those beings who are contacted by most mediums. And beyond all of this, beyond soul, dimension, and consciousness is the realm of Spirit, Oneness, or Reality, which is the goal of the mystical path. And if we just die, we just reincarnate and go through the cycle again. But those who seek to ascend are to me reaching upwards to Spirit and Oneness to produce conditions in which they are not trapped by the physical or subtle worlds at all. This is probably stuff you already know, anyway. Old stuff.

So I was just trying to point out to the original poster that ascension is not connected with death. While death will get us into a "4th dimension," that isn't going to matter if we just wind up reincarnating back here in the physical. As some people put it, we have to die before our physical death to ascend.

Death seems to me the banishment from this dimension. From this dimension it seems to me that we can enter the fourth dimension, with OBEs or something similar. To ascend seems to me, returning to oneness, becomming another state of being. Who knows, maybe still return to the physical plane is something more. A planet, star, solarsystem, galaxy? Something closer to a human being? We cant really know. Seems to me that "going to heaven" is to either reincarnate, or return to spirit. I guess the most like is that there is spirit planes. The "physical" shape or state of that plane or realm is hard to grasp though. I believe it could be tied to this realm in some way.


There is truth in what both you guys have to say here, I understand that most of us are afraid of dying......or rather the way that we are going to die..... And this as we all know is because we have been programmed through thousands of years to be fearful of death...

Remember now "death" is also just an illusion, and I believe it is up to each individual to choose how exactly they will experience this shift. If you are afraid of dying during the ascension and you dwell on it you might just die. The thing is if WE all are honest with ourselves ALL beloieving that WE create our reality and start taking responsibility for the choices we make, we will start to realise that it is infact up to you and me!!! Thought is the fire of creation....and currently in the third dimension individuals are ALL thinking diffrent things with most of them living in fear of almost everything!! and at this point (though I believe that consiousness is rapidly increasing) there is a propbably only a small fraction of the earhts individuals that realise that we are creating our reality... Consiousness is all that is in the true sense, David Wilcock had a nice way of explaining collective consiousness by saying that you could compare it to the internet...... You type in what you are "tuned " into ...and violla!! We only perceive that which have been "implanted by choice or without our awareness" into our minds. The "reality" we see is only a fraction of what reality actually is, You know like tuning into a certain frequency on the radio.. The fouth dimension is a higher frequency, which means that our abilities to manifest would be increased at a dramatic pace....from now up until round 2012/13. Thats why it is so bloody important that we start looking within ourselves and start clearing away those FEARS all that dogmatic gugg, all the demons everything that we are aware off in our lives, because whatever you beleieve in you will draw towards you. Look at your life, the people in it the awful situations....everything in your life is a reflection of an aspect of you.....deal with it and move along. Do not alow any negative thoughts, work with it and have faith in yourself...

Suicide would be silly.....really I mean you're just gonna have to start all over again....

Another thing is that could also keep you in third density is your "love" for the material e.g The world your ego just luuuuvvvsss....

I'm not gonna elaborate now any further but I do recommend you go and check out the links on my previous thread..

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20008

And listen to some of what David Wilcock has to say.....you can listen and read about it on his website www.devinecosmos.com :D

We should try to help each other to focus on the beauty in life, the magic in life......we should start awakening our creative side start realising that we are ALL creators of our own Destiny and start giving the analytical left side of our brain a bit of a rest.......

Remember we are all one and to help another is to help ourselves....

:p

[amgard]

Hi lateral,

Thank you for the e-book links. I'd say, though, that Michael is not talking to someone like me, so I'll pass on reading his material, thanks. I would expect that he may be beneficial to others.

Yes, fear of death is rather strange in that humanity has lots of practice doing it. We have died many times before. So if "death" confers 4th dimensional advantages, we have all already taken advantage of them... you know what I mean? Dying, to me, does not really confer any advantages in terms of awareness at all. On the contrary, since we have these physical bodies at the moment, it is possible for us to ground the divinity within us in ways that are otherwise impossible.

Yes, suicide would be silly. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of what's going on here: a cyclic travel between the realm of birth and the realm of death, over and over and over again. Those two realms are really pretty much identical and in truth are one whole. What we are seeking, then, is not the dimensional awareness conferred by death, but a transfiguration that takes us beyond birth and death. Or if you like simple words: the kids need to grow up. Right now most people seem busy "creating their own reality" and making themselves happy. Fine. But someday we will stop living like self-centered children and realize that playtime is over - time to go Home.

I also agree that our love of third dimensionality could keep us trapped in it. It would, in effect, keep us attached to the realm of birth and death. You raise a good point that is not properly addressed in most teachings about ascension. This is exactly why most people will not ascend, because they love this realm and want to stay in it. By divine Grace, their wish will be granted, but since the Earth will no longer be 3D, these people will have to go elsewhere in this cosmos to continue that kind of existence.

So in the end, yes, lots of death is in store. But we will all die eventually; that was ensured the moment we were born here. We knew that when we came here. So it's no great loss. What would be a loss is to miss the opportunity to "catch a ride" on Earth as the planetary shift happens, due to our preoccupation with ourselves and our personal desires.

[intruder]

As YES once sang...."ascension points to nowhere leading every single one. A dew drop can exalt just like the music of the sun."

[marpat]

You don't need to die. When you sleep you are in the forth dimension as your mind is not limited by time and space. I have seen it stated that lucid dreaming is akin to spiritual resurrection, basically becoming conscious of the levels of mind that are beyond the conscious ego.
In the long term your individuality will have to die to attain the higher awareness but that does not mean you lose all memory or experience of what the individuality has been through. It can also be seen as the lower self getting absorbed into the higher self. The awareness of the lower self will subside and give the impression of having died, when really it is sleeping.

[2013]

Do you have to die to ascend?
i dont think so just step into it the opther dimensions exist all around us all the time so we can and do access them when we are happy or sad we see different aspects of these vibrations .So i think it can be as easy as walking forward into the next level and beyond .Death is not the end and death has its death as well maurice barbanell was the editor of the phsycic news and attended seances regularly and worked with many mediums .When he died thta put him in a better position than most to contact this realm .During his contacts which where recorded for the book he gave a lot of info about where he was .As he progressed on the other side he started to get visits from some of his relatives who had passed over a long time back and his contact with this realm began to fade slwoly he felt according to what he communicated that some spirits from a higher realm than the one he was inhabiting where coming to him and eventually he went on , he associated this with the second death .This book always stuck in my mind when i read it about 12 years ago so maybe we can move even further on and dont need to maintain a 3d connection to this planet :D

[kblood]

Do you have to die to ascend?
i dont think so just step into it the opther dimensions exist all around us all the time so we can and do access them when we are happy or sad we see different aspects of these vibrations .So i think it can be as easy as walking forward into the next level and beyond .Death is not the end and death has its death as well maurice barbanell was the editor of the phsycic news and attended seances regularly and worked with many mediums .When he died thta put him in a better position than most to contact this realm .During his contacts which where recorded for the book he gave a lot of info about where he was .As he progressed on the other side he started to get visits from some of his relatives who had passed over a long time back and his contact with this realm began to fade slwoly he felt according to what he communicated that some spirits from a higher realm than the one he was inhabiting where coming to him and eventually he went on , he associated this with the second death .This book always stuck in my mind when i read it about 12 years ago so maybe we can move even further on and dont need to maintain a 3d connection to this planet :D

Interesting :) I am trying to look into wether the souls that are passing on might be travelling through time in a very different way than we are. I thought ghosts had choices of where to go like we do, but it seems that when it comes to moving around in the 3 dimensions, they have do move in what I guess might be the 4th dimension or some other one. But their movement pattern might be one that could end up going back in time after having moved a bit forward in time. Thereby folding back on it all. While souls moves backwards, I guess the memories of them will be doing that at least, then they are also helping everyone else move on. Their memories or the memories of those who have passed always give some kind of inspiration. Some here believe inspiration has to be positive, it seems. I see inpiration as something you learn from. Great negatives (for one person) could cause this person to make up for it by creating great positives (at least for the same person.).

[phildee3]

You can't ascend if you're dead, only while you're alive!

[kblood]

You can't ascend if you're dead, only while you're alive!

Yes could be, but you believe life to only happen in the physical world I guess...? I cannot disprove that, but that is not my belief. Seems rather logical to me that death is never without purpose either, and neither seems the end. Or did everyone just dream of not stopping to exist when they died and came back?

[phildee3]

Yes could be, but you believe life to only happen in the physical world I guess...? I cannot disprove that, but that is not my belief. Seems rather logical to me that death is never without purpose either, and neither seems the end.



The spirit has no beginning or end.
The spirit never dies.
I was talking about the physical body.
Only when we are in a physical body can we experience any kind of change.
If we do not attain the goal in one liefetime, we keep reincarnating until we do.

[kblood]

The spirit has no beginning or end.
The spirit never dies.
I was talking about the physical body.
Only when we are in a physical body can we experience any kind of change.
If we do not attain the goal in one liefetime, we keep reincarnating until we do.

Yes, I still believe there is a state between reincarnations though. My experience tells me that our spirit can heal, even our entire body, after having been reduced to nothing. Mostly, its only a glimpse of what we were before passing that comes back to say hi. How are you doin? :)

[tothestars]

Death is leaving ur physical body.

Ascension is a energyshift not death.

Earth will ascend that is for sure
, what is not sure
is will each one of you choose to ascend by accepting love?! You will know the answer to that question in your heart!



You will not have to die to ascend with earth to 4D.
Those who die will be those who refuse to accept love in themselves.
No love=no energyshift to higher realm.
Those who die will continue to experience in a 3D world somewhere else (not on this planet anymore!).


The biggest moment in Earth`s history is about to happen :)

And I am gonna ascend with Earth! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[marpat]

Death is leaving ur physical body.

Ascension is a energyshift not death.

Earth will ascend that is for sure
, what is not sure
is will each one of you choose to ascend by accepting love?! You will know the answer to that question in your heart!



You will not have to die to ascend with earth to 4D.
Those who die will be those who refuse to accept love in themselves.
No love=no energyshift to higher realm.
Those who die will continue to experience in a 3D world somewhere else (not on this planet anymore!).


The biggest moment in Earth`s history is about to happen :)

And I am gonna ascend with Earth! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I agree in principle that ascension refers to transcending the planes of awareness rather than something you have to die to achieve. It does not even have to be a complete shift from earth to the highest plane, as to shift one level only is still an ascension.

[marpat]

The spirit has no beginning or end.
The spirit never dies.
I was talking about the physical body.
Only when we are in a physical body can we experience any kind of change.
If we do not attain the goal in one liefetime, we keep reincarnating until we do.

Although you say spirit do you mean that in it's true sense or are you refering to the soul? I would say that the spirit does not incarnate. The soul animates the body and can ascend to the spirit. This can be during life or after death. As I see it the spirit is universal and feeds the souls, in very general terms, and the soul acts like a transformer to step the vibration of the spiritual energy down to a level that can be used by the physical body. As the body and soul expand then the capacity for increasing the amount of circulating spirit is increased.

[kblood]

Although you say spirit do you mean that in it's true sense or are you refering to the soul? I would say that the spirit does not incarnate. The soul animates the body and can ascend to the spirit. This can be during life or after death. As I see it the spirit is universal and feeds the souls, in very general terms, and the soul acts like a transformer to step the vibration of the spiritual energy down to a level that can be used by the physical body. As the body and soul expand then the capacity for increasing the amount of circulating spirit is increased.

How I see it as well :) I am still not sure or decided wether I believe there to be more than one spirit. The spiritual plane might quite complex... it ought to be, if it is reflecting our plane. Having different states of souls. Im quite certain that our body has the 3 parts og physical body, soul and spirit.

[2013]

Perhaps the one observed the nothingness of being and by doing so created the big bang and now we are expressions of that awareness seeking to understand itself :eek::D

[phildee3]

Yes, I still believe there is a state between reincarnations though. My experience tells me that our spirit can heal, even our entire body, after having been reduced to nothing. Mostly, its only a glimpse of what we were before passing that comes back to say hi. How are you doin? :)



Excellent.
I would still say, though, that a discarnate spirit doesn't do this by acting on a thing but by entering it.

[phildee3]

Although you say spirit do you mean that in it's true sense or are you refering to the soul? I would say that the spirit does not incarnate. The soul animates the body...



Both.
What you call souls, I call individual spirits, - microcosms of the macrocosmic Great Spirit, - droplets from the infinite ocean.
The spirit does not incarnate but a spirit does, and thus becomes a "soul."

[marpat]

Both.
What you call souls, I call individual spirits, - microcosms of the macrocosmic Great Spirit, - droplets from the infinite ocean.
The spirit does not incarnate but a spirit does, and thus becomes a "soul."

Sounds like we are in agreement but using slightly different expressions.

[razed1]

we will have the ability to go however far the light of the milky way goes

[gnostic1]

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[fromthatshow]

Death is leaving ur physical body.

Ascension is a energyshift not death.

Earth will ascend that is for sure
, what is not sure
is will each one of you choose to ascend by accepting love?! You will know the answer to that question in your heart!



You will not have to die to ascend with earth to 4D.
Those who die will be those who refuse to accept love in themselves.
No love=no energyshift to higher realm.
Those who die will continue to experience in a 3D world somewhere else (not on this planet anymore!).


The biggest moment in Earth`s history is about to happen :)

And I am gonna ascend with Earth! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D


How do you accept true love if you have never experienced it?

[cyberdaemon]

I always thought that ascending is inevitable , neither you like it or not.
Its like sitting on titanic , that is sinking.You hit the water one way or another.But dont take it too literally , its not that tragic.Its like disconnecting from one game to join another , which one is up to YOU.

And by the way , lets see what David told us about this ascension.He said death is an illusion , life is an illusion , space and time are illusions.So if you understand these things , not just say "yea , i know" , you also know what ascension means.Or should mean.

[lateral_v]

How do you accept true love if you have never experienced it?


It's not something you'll find out there....it's within all of us, I believe everyone has love in their hearts, they've just forgotten who they really are...the thing is I think most of us, look for love in all the wrong places, we have been conditioned since childhood on what love is suppose to be I can ask you a simple question......do you have compassion for others?
And last but not least, do you have compassion for yourself?

[drael]

No. Ascension is not about a split between earths, or a shift fo dimensions. In time, humanity will progress to the 4D. However, ascension/2012 is actually about a change in primary conciousness from the logical and inhibited ego/logic brain to the infinitely powerful creative and "imaginative" brain. And i put that in quotes because human potential is unlimited and "imagination" does not just occur in the human mind, as above so below, as within, so without. Once we tap into the fact that the "sub" or deep concious is actually the direct connection to reality, and that the ego mind is the illusion maker we can then progress to ascend by developing through "layers" of reality by transcending our personal illusions. Ascension is never an automatic process of any kind, never comes from outside yourself, you never have to wait for it. And so, all 2012 is, if anything, is the marking of a trend towards the 4d, and therefor the true conciousness. It does seem time is mathematical, so its certainly possible.

The suppression of reality itself, also creates resistance, as the deep mind is the mind really in charge and the prevelance of its influence on us, our perception and what we do. So in a sense "ascension" is inevitible, it creates a mental and social pressure. We can actually see this pressure in what a mess we make of the world, because we are unaware of how connected everything is, how related our mind to the world.

[orbandsceptre27]

With talk of the coming ascension do you have to die to slip in to the 4th dimension? Whats your opinion will you still be alive and on earth or will you vanish in thin air?



Dying is an illusion - there is no death.

There are many people already here living in the fourth, fifth and even a few in higher dimensions again. If you choose to ascend, then ascend and quit talking about it or trying to do it. Just do it - "To be or not to be."

The more people that "ascend" the greater for the collective unconscious. Like a kettle beginning to boil, eventually a critical mass will be reached and there`s no going back.

There`s too much focus in this forum on the obstacles to "ascension" - the reptilians, the NWO, the corrupt politicains - all out there preventing us. WE PREVENT OURSELVES FROM MOVING ON. If the focus was totally on "ascension" then we would "ascend" with much greater intensity and with greater ease.

Namaste.

[phildee3]

With talk of the coming ascension do you have to die to slip in to the 4th dimension? Whats your opinion will you still be alive and on earth or will you vanish in thin air?

You can only ascend whist alive.
That's the purpose of life.