Norway leading the way forward for us all

[orwell2012]

Hello to you all, just found this & thought that i had to share it with you all, im not the biggest Michael Moore fan in the world but i found this almost to good to be true, never knew Norway was run like this simply amazing , tell me what you think.


http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/19529-michael-moore-cut-this-scene-from-sicko-because-no-one-would-

[cruise4]

This would probably be my country of choice to flee to. But I want to see the UK Government fall after the US one first :D

[chris]

Yeah, even if it is good, it's only a few years away from total tyranny. This is why socialism never works. I'd rather keep my taxes and buy health care that I want rather than this shit.

The way they treat criminals is quite good though, a little too soft but they have the right idea.

Michael Moore is such a fucking bullshiter, he tries to make this out because the government and socialism is so wonderful but Norway is a very capitalist society, it's just that they do offer a good healthcare program along with it. Still like all socialism, it will be a breeze to corrupt.

[strider]

Good find, cheers orwell..

[lenejento]

Wow, that was a great propaganda film for Norway!

There are many things that are better than other countries, definately. But I agree with Chris here. Thing is, because most people in Norway believe they're living in the best country in the world, they are very gullible, and the government uses a very easy approach so most think they're on the peoples' side. Last time I travelled by plane, there was a fingerprinting system by the gate, next to it was a sign that we could give our fingerprint to assign to our luggage if we wanted, and that the fingerprint would be completely deleted from the system after the journey :confused: I off course used my normal passport, while most in front of me gave their fingerprint.

Ever since he entered office Stoltenberg (prime minister) has really been pushing the gllobal warming thing, even suggesting we pay a fee each time we travel by plane for pollution. This year there's gonna be a competition between cities on who releases the least CO2. I don't like pollution but I think there's a more sinister agenda here, because of the blatant hypocrisy.

In many ways I think Norway is a country of hypocrisy, people think we're sucha a charitable country, still being a die hard materialist at the same time.

Also the media is completely controlled off course, especially the news.
Edit: But I see more and more people here asking questions and waking up ;)

[limelady]

Hello lenejento. I have a friend in Norway - a fellow researcher - who would agree with you. She has been saying for some time now that Norway is a very controlled country, and puts this down to the CIA having well and truly set-up camp there way back after WW2. She maintains the NWO are very much in control of pretty much everything and the average citizen is clueless about the hidden agenda. From what she's told me the people in Norway tend to live life oblivious to the ever tightening controls being put in front of them, just accepting that their Government knows best.....like lambs to the slaughter. :(

[kilt15]

Even though i don't really care about this stuff.
Norway isn't the number 1 anymore :cool:. And the standards of living are actually getting worse every year

1# Iceland
2# Norway
3# Australia
4# Canada
5# Ireland :p
6# Sweden
7# Switzerland
8# Japan
9# Netherlands :p
10# France

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/ (the list the movie was talking about)

It also lost it's second place in purchasing power (3rd now ireland 2nd luxembourg 1st).
Norway has high standards of living because it's governmant makes much money with norway's large oil reserves. I don't think i have to explain what happens if the oil runs out. However ireland and the netherlands are doing better each year and neither of them have large oil reserves :D.

[cruise4]

She is the leader of the Norwegain party called "'Fremskrits Partiet" (FRP), it has just about 30% of the people behind it. it has never been in government position before. So it will probably be next election. To make it short, Norway is a socialistic state, the gov. own a big piece of the norwegian stockmarked. FRP wants to sell 288 billion NOK($1 = 5.3 NOK or close to) worth of gov. shares. So I suspect Siv Jensen found some buyers. The companies in question are StatoilHydro, Telenor etc (oil and telecomunication company(telenor inherited the coppernet after the gov. when the telephone service became privatised, it was gov. owned before that, all of it.)) Id love to answer further questions about Siv Jensen and FRP if you have any. Its why i want AJ's opinion about it since he added it to his movie. Aswell, a "bad thing" about his movie is that when he talks about EU, and the map shows all the countries EU have swallowed, Norway is a part if that. Norway IS NOT a part of EU. just over 50% of the people are against EU, 26-29% are for EU, and the rest dont know or dont gove a shit. Its why i want to talk to AJ about it. (Im from Norway). Now dont get me wrong, our current prime ministers father have attended Bilderberg before, gro Harlem Brundtland, a former prime minister have attended before, the editor of one of norways largest newspapers ahve attended. Now the son of Thorvad Stoltenberg is Prime Minister(his daughter/sister is a drugadict, so i dunno about eugenics). The newspaper the editor leads, "aftenposten" have not written a single word about the bilderberg meetings, yet other newspaper have. Its so easy to see what bilderberg is about based on who says what and who DOESNT say anything. Its scary. But this latest visit by Siv Jensen took me by surprise and made my blood boil! I have written a "dodgy" email to the party saying im a amature documetary maker who wants statements for my film (im not making a documentary). But I am awaiting asnwers. Ill keep you updated on any answer i get!

[cruise4]

The background is that I found out almost two years ago that our own central bank sold it's small gold reserve of 33 tonnes and now have it's reserves of about $400 billion solely in stocks and foreign currency in which the largest part is in the US. I have written a couple of articles about the gold sale and wrote to the central bank and got an answer where they said they sold because the gold they had was such a small part of the holdings!!! and that they had no plans buying gold. I fear as this financial crisis picks up momentum and go really global, all will be lost.

In my particular case, Norway, which has a state owned central bank but nevertheless which, Im sure, is under the influence of the big cartels of private bankers.

Would you believe me when I say our entire nation only have 3,5 tonnes of gold coins and 7 gold bars for exhibition purposes? It blows my mind and scare the hell out of me and it also scares me that so few know about it and when I tell them they just shrug their shoulders.

It's all public knowledge, they put the info up on their site and they also put up a description of the entire holding, how many millions of dollars in each company throughout the world.

[cruise4]

I am a Norwegian man who closely follows the US Presidential campaign and the fight for liberty that Ron Paul, Alex Jones and others do so superbly. I have a blog called Health and Freedom and I have written several articles about different subjects that is relevant for this fight.
A couple of days I felt compelled to write an article about how the Norwegian media cover Ron Paul and how they in many cases, now that they finally acknowledge his existence, distorts both his views and what liberty really mean. I have now translated this article into English:

Norwegian media does not understand Ron Paul and liberty

Presidential candidate Dr. Ron Paul surprise mainstream media with a support of 10% in Iowa. This is refreshing for those who support the ideals of liberty and one can look forward to even greater support in New Hampshire.

But this support of Ron Paul confuse and perhaps irritates Norwegian journalists. They do not understand what liberty means and have major problems defining Ron Paul and what he and his supporters are all about.

Norwegian media are like the American when it comes to Ron Paul. First he was ignored and when it became apparent that many ordinary Americans is about to wake up and realize that the ruling elite is destroying their lives and view Ron Paul as their only hope of a life in liberty, then they felt compelled to also cover his campaign for presidency. But those articles one so far can read in Norwegian media about Ron Paul, show a lack of understanding of what he stand for and what USA is facing as a consequence of years of misrule. One can read gross oversimplifications and labels that are unreasonable and erroneous and I suspect journalists do a rather poor job referencing sources and doing background research on what they write.

In connection to the presidential election in USA the largest newspaper VG have an overview on their webpage of what the different candidates stand for, and in the article by Geir Terje Ruud, Ron Paul is categorized as the Internet-President. Even though Ron Paul is the candidate that receive most attention on the Internet, it is strange calling him the Internet-President. One almost get the impression that this label is intended to marginalize Paul and his supporters as a non-existing group of digital people without votes. The real reason for his
support on the Internet stems from the fact that mainstream media have not covered Ron Paul and his supporters to any great extent and rarely in positive terms. Like Norwegian national media, the US media is not anymore an outlet for most people or anything close to being objective in their coverage of different opinions. Mainstream media in the United States are owned by a few large corporations that see their interests best served by backing up candidates appointed by the ruling elite. Ron Paul is an outsider, is independent and to a large extent in opposition to the special interests that the current and many former Presidents have viewed as their masters.

What does it really matter when Ruud write, as if it is a disadvantage for Paul, that he is more on the offence in the YouTube-segment than among viewers of CNN? Is Ruud insinuating that the latter is a better quality type of people or perhaps that they have double votes? Or does he thing that YouTube users are less inclined to cast their votes than viewers of CNN? I say that the former group of people are more pro-active than passive CNN viewers and therefore more likely to vote in larger numbers, so if anything, this is an advantage for Paul.

Furthermore Ruud state that Ron Paul have the wildest policy of the Presidental candidates. Again my opinions of journalists like Ruud is confirmed. He portray Paul as a lunatic while failing to explain that the “wild” policy that Ruud is such an opponent to, are:

- One must follow the US Constitution
- Withdraw the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan
- Abolish the illegal Federal Reserve (private central bank) and the unconstitutional tax on people’s labour
- Cease policing the rest of the world
- End the debt policy and get the United States economy in order

These are some of the policies that separate Ron Paul from the other candidates. But I understand the position of Ruud. Norwegian politicians also, to an increasing extent, want to undermine our own Constitution as the example these days show when they want to force through a change in the Constitution to make it easier to get Norway into the EU by reducing the required majority vote from 75% to 66%. We haven’t come to that yet, but I feel certain that several Norwegian politicians really wish to say the same George W. Bush said about the US Constitution, that it is just “A Goddamn Piece of Paper”. Both our societies has sunk so deep into the moral abyss that even journalists, both in the US and Norway, brand a Presidental candidate that insist on following the Constitution as a wildman and revolutionary.

Ruud continues: ”After really showing his most charming side in The Jay Leno Show this autumn, his popularity took off”. Here Ruud suggest that Ron Paul is usually not a charming man but that he pulled himself together on the Leno show. I have seen and heard many interviews with Ron Paul and he’s always like this, most charming and let me add, lightening intelligent, fair and decent. Even though the others are false and have been caught in many lies, Ron Paul is just being himself and hold the same views today that he did 30 years ago. He was against the Iraq war from the beginning and not only lately as Ruud write is the case with Hillary Clinton.

The Internet-President by Geir Terje Ruud:
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/presidentvalg-2008/artikkel.php?artid=186978

In his article “Radical Republican” Kim Riseth call Ron Paul a revolutionary and a person calling for a revolution. As customary with journalists these days, totally without references on where and when Paul said so. Ron Paul is not a revolutionary. As I wrote earlier he’s for following the Constitution and not doing an unconstitutional coup d’etat and declare himself dictator like George W. Bush has done. Ron Paul Revolution which has become the signature of his candidacy is not created by Ron Paul but by creative supporters of his policies. Ron Paul support non-violent means to change the United States of America and the revolutionary element consist of following the Constitution!
Yes, as I wrote earlier, it is from both the American and Norwegian media viewpoint revolutionary and “wild” when a Presidental candidate insist on following the rule of law. Kim Riseth even say flat out that Ron Paul is rebellious! Journalists like this are a dream come true for the ruling Neo-Cons and they would certainly be in high demand as re-writers of history ala Winston from Orwell’s 1984 if The New World Order reach their final goal. If they do not reach their goals, Norwegian journalists are certainly not to be blamed.

The allegation that Ron Paul chose one of his fundraising days to the Guy Fawkes day in November, as a memory of blowing up the House of Commons in London, are copied from enemies of Ron Paul in an attempt to dig up dirt because they can’t find anything else. This fundraising day was not chosen for that reason and has been denied by the Ron Paul campaign organizers. But for Kim Riseth facts are not important but suggestions of ill intent, name-calling and labelling is. He even suggest that Ron Paul support terrorism, an allegation only the most out-of-control fascist media like Fox News in the US has done. I suspect that’s where he got this dirt from.

”Radical Republican” by Kim Riseth:
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/presidentvalg-2008/artikkel.php?artid=192234

At least VG write about Ron Paul and let Norwegian readers vote for him on their on-line poll. Not so with Dagbladet which is content with concentrating their attention on their darlings Obama and Clinton and otherwise the other candidates that stand for war and theft from the American citizens.
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2007/11/26/519345.html

If one want real information on Ron Paul and what he stands for as President in USA, one can start with the following:

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
http://infowars.net/

as well as my article written earlier on my blogg.

Reidar Barstad, January 4, 2008

[pri01]

I am not sure if this information is correct, but I am sure I read somewhere that Norwegians pay 70% tax on their income, and they are very much reliant on government for most things.

[edelweiss pirate]

Even though i don't really care about this stuff.
Norway isn't the number 1 anymore :cool:. And the standards of living are actually getting worse every year

1# Iceland
2# Norway
3# Australia
4# Canada
5# Ireland :p
6# Sweden
7# Switzerland
8# Japan
9# Netherlands :p
10# France

How can Iceland be a number one top place to live when there aren't even any trees?

You might as well say the moon is a great place to live..

Been to Iceland, nice place nice people but very very DULL!

All you can do is drink your own homemade hooch and watch the shit American TV shows they're corrupting the country with.

I mean what relevance has 'Homicide a life on the street' got to such people?

Naff all but they still make 'em watch that junk.

[kblood]

I am not sure if this information is correct, but I am sure I read somewhere that Norwegians pay 70% tax on their income, and they are very much reliant on government for most things.

I think that is up to 70% tax on their income, so only the richest. Same thing here in Denmark, we pay a minimum of 42% tax if im not mistaken, not taking tax reductions into account, like when you have a loan the rents gives tax refunds. I am wondering a bit why Denmark has not been mentioned yet, and is not even on the top 10 world living standards? Im quite certain that is what I have heard, but then both Norway and Denmark... heck most of Europe, now has a problem which needs to be adjusted for. The number of people on retirement is becomming such a high %age (due to lower birth rate), that this system of wellfare as we call it in Denmark, becomes very tested. The new government today (well, if you consider a 6 year run new), won the election by going for a stop in taxes. Not letting taxes go up at all, from when they came in government. They even promise that we keep the same living standards by making up for it by being more efficient. Enough about that though.

Here in Denmark, we get a card with our social security number. With this we get free healthcare. You break a leg in Afganistan, no problem just run the this credit card through their system and you get your arm fixed for free. Untill last year, the return trip home would even be payed, if it was too severe.

Max prison sentance in Denmark is 16 years, compared to Norways 21 years. Hadnt seen this comparison before.

Something very fortunate in Norway is that they get most their electricity for free, or nearly free. They get most their electricity from water, that runs down from the mountains, and that also makes their water almost free, since the water from the mountains is at least close to clean as it is, so doesnt take much to filter. I got about half my family in Norway and the most amazing thing there is the nature, but then I am used to flat Denmark, not mountains and waterfalls like in Norway. In Denmark we have better beaches though :)

What I liked the most about this clip is how they actually managed to rehabilitate prisoners, or at least had the goal to do so, instead of the usual system of punishment and revenge which seems to run the world. In my oppinion, how we run our prisons is something that really defines our humanity. Do we help the negativity on its way, or do we try to heal it? From what I know we mostly have prisons which makes the criminals worse than they were to begin with, not likely able to fit into society much after 10 years or more in prison, often even less.

[kblood]

I am not sure if this information is correct, but I am sure I read somewhere that Norwegians pay 70% tax on their income, and they are very much reliant on government for most things.

By the way, even when they pay 70% tax, they in Norway do have an amazing spending power. They have very high wages in Norway. When you pay 70% tax, it is because you are earning a million or more each year. Measured in NOK :) The currency of Norway.

[kblood]

Hmm. Denmark is no. 14 on the list though for human development.

The list looks very similar to this one:
http://hdrstats.undp.org/indicators/5.html

Which is how much money they have per citizen. So Norweigians come out as some of the richest people in the world although they pay up to 70% tax :)

I do admit that Scandinavia is very controlled. I have heard suggestions that it is an experiment. Alot of new technology and such gets "tested" on the market here. For one, Denmark had cellphones commonly 6months or maybe even a year before Germany. So if you went their and got a call, alot of people would be giving you a wierd look.

I also believe the system of social security system got tested here. I am not sure were to look further into it though. The system of numbering every single one of us, so we are in the system. Denmark is known for having one of the highest % if inhabitants able to get an Internet connection. Also one of the highest % of people with an Internet connection I think. Computers are also very important in Denmark. It was publicly announced that we intented to be the leading country when it comes to computers, having them integrated into society. We even had Bill Gates come here and laugh at that, telling us how the US had schools where every student has a laptop.

True, but here in Denmark where all education, even university is free. Today we have quite a few lines of education where a laptop is given to every student. I even have a friend who is brittish but has lived in Denmark since the age of 5 or something, so she has difficulty writing and reading. So she gets a laptop able to read everything for her, and help her not make as many spelling and grammatical errors, thereby making somewhat up for her inability to learn as fast as the other students.

Once I visited the US, and the owner of the company who came from Denmark, had his kids move there. He couldnt deny them to be with him of course, and he did not want to either, later he found out he had to pay 500.000 DKR, for each kids college education there... that is around 90.000 USD I think. Being a manager of a company he of course got the money to do so, so it wasnt really a problem. The point is, in Denmark education is possible for those willing to learn.

It is a bit of a mix of communism and socialism I guess. I have to say that I do agree that f.ex. medical treatment is not something that should be based on profits. In Denmark there is the choice of choosing private clinics or getting treated for free. Same goes for schools, private schools or public schools.

It all has downsides of course, like everything does, and we arent any less controlled by the elite as far as I know.

[baron von lotsov]

This would probably be my country of choice to flee to. But I want to see the UK Government fall after the US one first :D

Do you like red? Norway is very NWO!

http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-559597

[kblood]

Do you like red? Norway is very NWO!

http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-559597

Im in a pink zone :) Reminds me that my brother has a laptop with both fingerprint reader and webcam built in... which I think is cool :cool: I am curious what this is measured by though. Come to think of it, there is alot about surveillance going on. Something about too many having been stabbed at bars and discoes, and I think the solution will be to have video surveillance set up in the places of night life.

Also Denmark tops with 4 on identity cards and biometrics. What is biometrics? Anyway, I think our danish health insurance card just got upgraded, so they might get chipped just like our dancard/visa cards just did. It is the card we use as free travel insurance.

As I wrote earlier, Denmark seems to be experiment, where some of the newest ideas gets tested. The amount of paperwork on each person here in Denmark is sure to be extensive. I once talked with a busdriver who said we might get some new kind of way to pay for the busfare. A chip thing that would just get scanned as you enter the bus. This was a few years ago, so I thought that a great idea, anything to make life easier. There was something keeping it from happening though, but I dont remember if he said what it was.

I guess what he was telling me is the chip technology is probably already here and have been for years, and this could replace the 5-20 cards we have in our wallets. At least I found this site, so I now know what to vote against :)

[cruise4]

"Do you like red? Norway is very NWO!"

No... I've completely changed my mind :D

I don't know what to do... I feel as if we are being lined up like ducks ready to be shot and we can't do anything about it. I fantasize about actually going out and taking out one of these scum that are harrassing me personally. But when it comes down to it, I don't want to hurt anybody. But they ain't going to leave us alone...

I feel like Jesus on the cross, when he said:

My God why has thou forsaken me?

[juppi]

I am norwegian. And i pay 36% tax of 100% work. And this is normal in Norway. We are very angry at the gowerment because we pay to much tax.

[kblood]

I am norwegian. And i pay 36% tax of 100% work. And this is normal in Norway. We are very angry at the gowerment because we pay to much tax.

We pay 42% tax here in Denmark, but I think free healthcare and education makes up for it quite well. Would you rather be without that to be a little richer? I find it quite important that you can get an education wether you are rich or poor.

[cruise4]

"Would you rather be without that to be a little richer?"

Yes... no question about it. If they didn't have national healthcare systems the Pharma racket couldn't work.

If the community dealt with Education, at least at earlier levels, the children wouldn't be in such a dumbed down state.

In other words your taxes ALLOW these perversions to take place.

[kblood]

"Would you rather be without that to be a little richer?"

Yes... no question about it. If they didn't have national healthcare systems the Pharma racket couldn't work.

If the community dealt with Education, at least at earlier levels, the children wouldn't be in such a dumbed down state.

In other words your taxes ALLOW these perversions to take place.

Take a look at the US. Are they doing so well with that kind of system, which you are now promoting? The pharma racket will be there wether it is national or private, there is lots of proof of that. According to threads on this forum, most of the medications which partly helps, and partly exchanges one disease with another, that kind of thinking came from private pharmecies, so what makes you think it wouldnt work if it wasnt national? The reason why the pharma industry is like it is, is because people still believe in it, and is addicted to it in so many ways. If it wasnt national, there would simply be more people trying to make profit out of it, instead of just the doctors selling it, which is more than enough as I see it.

How are you proposing the community should deal with education? Personally I do like how there is a choice here wether it is to be a private school or a public school. Even more so I like how college and universities isnt only for those who can afford paying 50.000€ per child they have to get them through college or Uni, with Uni probably costing more. It does have its flaws this system, but I do not see how it is any more flawed being run by the government than it is when privatised and run on profit or donations?

[kblood]

As for having communities dealing with education, if parents took their time helping their children with their education, there would not be any problems to begin with. I helped my brother to have a good head start when he began in school. It seemed to have helped him alot to have learned the alphabet, and basic addition and subtraction before starting in school.

As for the national pharmacies, what I care about is people is able to get their limbs sewn back on without having to have a wallet ready. If people choose to take medical drugs, then that is their choice. Many in my family do, due to whatever they have to deal with. I told them I dont believe in the medications, but it is kind of hard to convince someone who is 65 years old and prescribed to take 5-10 pills a day, and having lived his or her whole life believing that is how to get or stay well.

If people minds can be changed on this issue, then the system will change with it, since we in the end have the power, or the mass have at least.

[cruise4]

The US does have a National Medical service. Granted its not quite the same as say, The National Health service but its similar. I agree it should be free at source for those that can't afford it. No argument there at all. But I come from a position where 95% of current medical conditions wouldn't be there in the first place and 5% is definately possible to be helped via vocational driven people. So I am talking about a position 'after' fundamental society reform. Not a quick fix now.

Its much easier to run a high profit industry where centralisation of power, qualification and purchase are all under the same umbrella organisation.

"The reason why the pharma industry is like it is, is because people still believe in it"

Yes... but why is this? Its because of centralisation of mainstream media and bad education, both patients and doctors. Diversity and choice in the marketplace is much better and with accurate information people could make an informed choice.

"As for having communities dealing with education, if parents took their time helping their children with their education, there would not be any problems to begin with"

Exactly. And they can't because the state has deemed to ensure everyone works and they control the kids. Get rid of the money scam and everything else rotten about society and both mother and father and other members of a community could easily take on this vocational driven task. So again this idea is after society is reformed.

This is only an extremely rough guide to indicate what I think. The issue of societal reform and how it shakes out is a complicated one and much will not be clear until the impacts are seen.

[kblood]

I have to admit when I helped my brother learning to read and do some math, I had the time, and lived there as well anyway, but still it isnt that hard, but I guess I just copied how the teachers had taught me in a way, and then we had a C64 which helped alot, since made it possible to see all the letter (except our danish letters), so it was easier to teach him this way. It has alot to do with how I learned it myself as well. Still I guess it is maybe 2 hours a day for a while depending on how willing to learn the child is.

The less time consuming way, I guess, would be to help the kid / kids doing their homework, or at least pay attention to what they have done in school. Encouragement is does most the work really, then the child would probably do more to learn it.

Most if not all who is reading this thread probably knows all this though, but it is easy to forget or neglect. I would have liked to do the same for my sister, but I got my own flat and then it is near impossible. I try to pay attention though if there is something she would like to show me, and my brother still shows me whatever he makes at Uni. He even got himself a 12 for a project where he made a 3D animation movie, about a car and wrote about how they made the movie, and why they made it the way they did and such. That is on the new 12 scale grading system, so quite nice :)

But to get back a bit more on topic, yes I guess it might need a reform to make it better. There is so much the school system today is lacking. It seems it is still not common knowledge that Earth is growing, although it seems known that oceans rose.

As for the health care system, then yes, drugs are bad in so many ways, their medically physical effect might not even be as bad as the mental effect. If the thought that we are able to heal ourselves, then we must be quite able to make ourselves sick as well. In my case it seems very much so, and sometimes quite obviously. If my mental state is depressed or something, my immune system is likely to go down along with it. So a basic "drug" like a pill against headache, or a sleeping pill might also have the effect that you wont be able to be able to fall asleep without a sleeping pill, or your headache will only get worse if you dont get a painkiller... as for other drugs, the effects are likely to be even worse.

In short, I believe we are able to heal ourselves mentally without even using natural medication, but natural medcation can of course help. Todays health care system isnt the only way we get sick though. TV is making us more extreme in many ways, because we are trying to be different and unique by instinct, or so I believe anyway, so some therefore feel the need to be maybe extremely gay, or extremely fanatic about some religion... look at sports today, which in some leagues like "tour de france" where it seems to be getting out of hand. As if these guys werent destroying themselves enough before they added drugs to a sport as extreme as that to begin with.

And to get a bit more around it all, then I also believe in how we "punish" criminals says alot about our society as well. If we make sure criminals do get a lesson, but at the same time make sure criminals got some new goals in life when getting out of prison, then it would seem less likely that we would have so many who seems to yo.yo in and out of prison their whole life. I believe 50% or more of todays prisoners are there for the second time or more. I guess it could be less, but it still is a bad circle that needs to be stopped. Prisons today mostly do not make the criminals learn from their mistakes, they just punish the prisoners for their mistakes. Some prisons arent even doing the punishing all that well either, and the prisoners might even get to feel more at home in prison than outside and in worst cases look forward to being inside the "secure" walls of a prison with well known strict rules and not having to do much thinking yourself, and therefore not doing much wrong either.

This is why I see that previously shown way of getting prisoners back into society is very important. Just because someone has killed a guy isnt the same as the person is necesarilly unable to function sociallym but even more important, such a person needs to learn to function socially before being set back into society imo.