Witchcraft, Wicca, Shamanism and Neopaganism

[neondestiny]

On a couple of threads I have posted to recently, there have been some that
seem to want to ridicule or have a degree of fear of witchcraft and wicca, which I feel may possibly stem from not really knowing what it is all about or possibly mixing it up with Satanism and the illuminati.
I then see that these same posters throw in a link to shamanism which in my opinion is not so very different to Wicca, please see below

Early neopagan beliefs were that a witch was in fact a female or male shaman. In India in the Vedic Age, a witch was called a "yogin". In modern Hindi, a witch is called Daayan or chudail. It is interesting to note that witchcraft is often mentioned in the Bible, both the old test Testament and the new Testament make regular mentions to witchcraft. In Africa, the term witch doctor has been misconstrued to mean "a healer who uses Witchcraft", when the original meaning was one of "who diagnoses and cures sickness caused by a witch".


So I thought I would post the link below in the hope to give others a broader view into this subject.

http://www.paralumun.com/witchcraft.htm

You will probably now notice where my username comes from in part (neopaganism), I do not however label myself as a wiccan, witch, neopagan or even shaman. I do however, have beliefs based very loosely on some of the teachings of all of these concepts as well as others.
The only thing I can label myself is "ME" a unique being on my own unique path.

So I hope in part to have shed a little more light into this subject and will hopefully remove some of the fear and ridicule surrounding Wicca.
Brightest of Blessings
Neon xxx

[cruise4]

In all probability, not a single element of the Wiccan story is true

The evidence is overwhelming that Wicca is a distinctly new religion, a 1950s concoction influenced by such things as Masonic ritual and a late-nineteenth-century fascination with the esoteric and the occult, and that various assumptions informing the Wiccan view of history are deeply flawed. Furthermore, scholars generally agree that there is no indication, either archaeological or in the written record, that any ancient people ever worshipped a single, archetypal goddess -- a conclusion that strikes at the heart of Wiccan belief.

In the past few years two well-respected scholars have independently advanced essentially the same theory about Wicca's founding. In 1998 Philip G. Davis, a professor of religion at the University of Prince Edward Island, published Goddess Unmasked: The Rise of Neopagan Feminist Spirituality, which argued that Wicca was the creation of an English civil servant and amateur anthropologist named Gerald B. Gardner (1884-1964). Davis wrote that the origins of the Goddess movement lay in an interest among the German and French Romantics -- mostly men -- in natural forces, especially those linked with women. Gardner admired the Romantics and belonged to a Rosicrucian society called the Fellowship of Crotona -- a group that was influenced by several late-nineteenth-century occultist groups, which in turn were influenced by Freemasonry. In the 1950s Gardner introduced a religion he called (and spelled) Wica. Although Gardner claimed to have learned Wiccan lore from a centuries-old coven of witches who also belonged to the Fellowship of Crotona, Davis wrote that no one had been able to locate the coven and that Gardner had invented the rites he trumpeted, borrowing from rituals created early in the twentieth century by the notorious British occultist Aleister Crowley, among others. Wiccans today, by their own admission, have freely adapted and embellished Gardner's rites.

In 1999 Ronald Hutton, a well-known historian of pagan British religion who teaches at the University of Bristol, published The Triumph of the Moon. Hutton had conducted detailed research into the known pagan practices of prehistory, had read Gardner's unpublished manuscripts, and had interviewed many of Gardner's surviving contemporaries. Hutton, like Davis, could find no conclusive evidence of the coven from which Gardner said he had learned the Craft, and argued that the "ancient" religion Gardner claimed to have discovered was a mélange of material from relatively modern sources. Gardner seems to have drawn on the work of two people: Charles Godfrey Leland, a nineteenth-century amateur American folklorist who professed to have found a surviving cult of the goddess Diana in Tuscany, and Margaret Alice Murray, a British Egyptologist who herself drew on Leland's ideas and, beginning in the 1920s, created a detailed framework of ritual and belief. From his own experience Gardner included such Masonic staples as blindfolding, initiation, secrecy, and "degrees" of priesthood. He incorporated various Tarot-like paraphernalia, including wands, chalices, and the five-pointed star, which, enclosed in a circle, is the Wiccan equivalent of the cross.

[cruise4]

Do people think this (Wicca) is the NWO religion? I've just read an article about the supposed Wiccan history and then the article above and I'm somewhat confused. I thought the NWO ritulistic tendancies etc. went back to Babylon and maybe further. Do all 'magick's share this Earth, Fire, Water, Air thing? And I read somewhere about a wiccan council possibly being the top of the pyramid. Can anyone make sense of this a bit?

[mariag]

http://www.wiccanway.net/history.html
This might be of some use. I don´t know much about wicca or the occult , but maybe this site can help you

[drael]

I agree that the occult is often mistconstrued here to automatically mean illuminati. This is probably no co-incidence, it is likely beneficial to the NWO that mystic secrets remain so. If magickal power and knowledge were in common hands half (if not all) of the NWO tactics wouldnt work.

[chris]

Do all 'magick's share this Earth, Fire, Water, Air thing?

Well Qabalah doesn't however Alchemy does and Alchemy is the source of this earth, fire, water and air symbology. This has spread all throughout the world to Taoist China to Renaissance England. The hermetic Qabalah does incorporate the elements obviously.

I have thought that witchcraft is simply a new religion that takes it influences from other sources (like the masons) but fashions it around a romantic stereotype...However, I do think there is the possibility of the original religion that wicca deviates from could still be around. I know a person who is a druid and she claims that they are original ones but to be honest, I doubt it very much. It's something I need to research but my days are busy doing other stuff...

[thejoeunit94]

i thought id sum up this arguement as its so unbiased and all encompassing so far wicca, theosophy, neopaganism, new age astral projection was all invented by the illuminati this veery site claims to oppose but satan apparently and from my view wants people to accept this nwo religion. it was used by medeival covens and people like madame blavatski so that they could talk to theirr "spirit guides" and gaia or whatever bullshit. because they, tthe reptilians/pleadians, ghost of the dead, are all parasiting demoons. humans have no immortal soul and when jesus returns those who practice magic and manipulation will be revived and go to hell those who follow jesus heaven. (according to the bible). so please tell me why wiccans insist that only people who use magic to harm others are bad while theyre all bad and why did the illuminati and the UN ITSELF INVENT NEOPAGANISM AND THE NEW AGE!? HUH HUH?! ok im sorry i dont mean to offend the many new agers on this site who are herded like sheep into the illuminati's agenda. and dont ftell me astrologists and pagans beleive in good works because it does nothing to save their soul. christianity only hunted them because it was right! and christianity is the religion the illuminati hopes to wipe out and replace with their sun zodiac new age worship. just putting that out there as this thread 1was the most close to complete body of knowledge to support the good side of the two which were unbiasedly mentioned above. there is just so little truth as i constantly see wiccanism being portrayed in a good light and christians like dog shit. FUCK GNOSTICISM ITS EVERYWHERE IN EVERYTHING YOU READ!

[sir_adonis_sokar]

i thought id sum up this arguement as its so unbiased and all encompassing so far wicca, theosophy, neopaganism, new age astral projection was all invented by the illuminati this veery site claims to oppose but satan apparently and from my view wants people to accept this nwo religion. it was used by medeival covens and people like madame blavatski so that they could talk to theirr "spirit guides" and gaia or whatever bullshit. because they, tthe reptilians/pleadians, ghost of the dead, are all parasiting demoons. humans have no immortal soul and when jesus returns those who practice magic and manipulation will be revived and go to hell those who follow jesus heaven. (according to the bible). so please tell me why wiccans insist that only people who use magic to harm others are bad while theyre all bad and why did the illuminati and the UN ITSELF INVENT NEOPAGANISM AND THE NEW AGE!? HUH HUH?! ok im sorry i dont mean to offend the many new agers on this site who are herded like sheep into the illuminati's agenda. and dont ftell me astrologists and pagans beleive in good works because it does nothing to save their soul. christianity only hunted them because it was right! and christianity is the religion the illuminati hopes to wipe out and replace with their sun zodiac new age worship. just putting that out there as this thread 1was the most close to complete body of knowledge to support the good side of the two which were unbiasedly mentioned above. there is just so little truth as i constantly see wiccanism being portrayed in a good light and christians like dog shit. FUCK GNOSTICISM ITS EVERYWHERE IN EVERYTHING YOU READ!

@thejoeunit94
You seem to be very narrow minded. It is Christians like you that make the whole religion appear as dog shit. I embrace all religions, in fact one of the biggest is Christianity. I also at the same time am a practitioner of witchcraft, saint worship, and deity worship. I believe in Qabalah (which Jesus was even highly trained in) which states that all deities, saints, and angels are just manifestations of The Divine (God). So by worshiping one of these deities or angels, you are therefore directly worshiping The Divine source or God. There is no wrong or right way to heaven, and that is what the majority of Christians need to realize. Jesus preformed miracles which could be considered magick or witchcraft. Raising the dead is advanced Necromancy, right? Even Moses walked around with a large staff gifted with the powers over water and preformed witchcraft. The bible is full of witchcraft. I'm even learning mediumship and have talked with spirit guides and they are in no way anything close to what you would call a demon. Magick will not harm ones soul unless it goes against Divine Law. How is it right that Christians hunted witches? How is it right these so called men of God killed other human beings? Also do some research and you will find out Christianity is just another form of sun worship. It follows the pagan sabbats. Jesus dies (sun god dies on Samhain), he resurrects (sun god resurrects on Yule, which Christians celebrate on Christmas). In fact the sun will even line up in the middle of the crux constellation. Symbolically it is the Son of God on the cross (sun of God on the crux or cross). Jesus is very much a sun deity and a form of monotheistic paganism. Christians worship Jesus. The average Christian views Jesus as a God that became man. My esoteric views match with Rosicrucianism, which believes Jesus was a man that became God (or one with The Divine) through practicing and following the Holy Qabalah.

[vagrant]

In all probability, not a single element of the Wiccan story is true

In all probability a great deal of New Age religion is pure fantasy and
total invention. Druids are a very good example of a modern day revival
based on very little actual historic record. Aleister Crowley arch wizard
and the "most wicked man in the world" invented his own religion and called
it Thelema and encouraged others to do likewise which demonstrated
his true genius. However some are born to lead and some of us are born
to be lead, this of course opens the door to abuse by unscrupulous gurus and
cults. Caveat emptor

[wounded dragon]

Do people think this (Wicca) is the NWO religion? I've just read an article about the supposed Wiccan history and then the article above and I'm somewhat confused. I thought the NWO ritulistic tendancies etc. went back to Babylon and maybe further. Do all 'magick's share this Earth, Fire, Water, Air thing? And I read somewhere about a wiccan council possibly being the top of the pyramid. Can anyone make sense of this a bit?

I think the ops link is designed for new intitiates and those not in the know to make witchcraft appear as though it is a good thing. Why don't they make mention of the curses and spells and what effects witch craft has on individuals and on the all ? The article seems to relate more to traditional paganism which i approve of, i also approve of traditional druids though it seems most using the term (and the term shaman) these days are really nothing more than witches (they may believe they are shaman or druid though). I believe a lot of new age spiritual folk are getting involved with witch craft without even knowing that that is what they are doing. I believe NWO is all about witchcraft, with the witch who destroyed the previous creation heading it and calling herself the goddess. Witchcraft pulls divine magic off its otherwise perfect course usually to benefit either the practitioner or those they serve. Traditional shamans and druids work with divine magic and natures herbs they do not attempt to try to control the magic. They worship nature/creation. I think witchcraft is the tool of the greedy and that greed is the root to all evil.

Pierre Teilhard De Chardin (1881-1955):
Some day, after we have mastered the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity we shall harness the energies of love. Then, for the second time in the history of the world man will have discovered fire.

[sir_adonis_sokar]

I think the ops link is designed for new intitiates and those not in the know to make witchcraft appear as though it is a good thing. Why don't they make mention of the curses and spells and what effects witch craft has on individuals and on the all ? The article seems to relate more to traditional paganism which i approve of, i also approve of traditional druids though it seems most using the term (and the term shaman) these days are really nothing more than witches (they may believe they are shaman or druid though). I believe a lot of new age spiritual folk are getting involved with witch craft without even knowing that that is what they are doing. I believe NWO is all about witchcraft, with the witch who destroyed the previous creation heading it and calling herself the goddess. Witchcraft pulls divine magic off its otherwise perfect course usually to benefit either the practitioner or those they serve. Traditional shamans and druids work with divine magic and natures herbs they do not attempt to try to control the magic. They worship nature/creation. I think witchcraft is the tool of the greedy and that greed is the root to all evil.

The witchcraft I practice is nothing what you speak of. The witches I know are the most friendly people I have ever met. I don't preform curses, or know anybody that does. I don't like it when somebody abuses the art of magick, because that's what it is, an art. Witchcraft has had a very positive effect on me. It has helped me learn to love everybody and see the beauty in life. I look at nature and see Truth. Your NWO probably consist of people involved in many different religions. The goddess is simply the same thing to us as the holy spirit is to a Christian. It's a manifestation of The Divine that represents the feminine aspect of The Divine. Like I said before, angels, deities, saints, Jesus are all manifestations of The Divine (God). All religions worship this same God. They just go about different paths to reaching The Divine. All religions are right. Belief is what shapes your reality. And instead of trying to control energy or magick, we would rather work with this energy in a peaceful and meditative way. I have yet to meet a greedy witch as well. All witches I know are very giving and would never use magick for material self gain. We do however use this magick to improve us spiritually. You're correct when you say greed is evil, however their is nothing greedy about the witchcraft I practice. Hopefully this helps you better understand the truth to witchcraft. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[elpressiedente]

The witchcraft I practice is nothing what you speak of. The witches I know are the most friendly people I have ever met. I don't preform curses, or know anybody that does. I don't like it when somebody abuses the art of magick, because that's what it is, an art. Witchcraft has had a very positive effect on me. It has helped me learn to love everybody and see the beauty in life. I look at nature and see Truth. Your NWO probably consist of people involved in many different religions. The goddess is simply the same thing to us as the holy spirit is to a Christian. It's a manifestation of The Divine that represents the feminine aspect of The Divine. Like I said before, angels, deities, saints, Jesus are all manifestations of The Divine (God). All religions worship this same God. They just go about different paths to reaching The Divine. All religions are right. Belief is what shapes your reality. And instead of trying to control energy or magick, we would rather work with this energy in a peaceful and meditative way. I have yet to meet a greedy witch as well. All witches I know are very giving and would never use magick for material self gain. We do however use this magick to improve us spiritually. You're correct when you say greed is evil, however their is nothing greedy about the witchcraft I practice. Hopefully this helps you better understand the truth to witchcraft. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

this is just so much bullshit

only a person who can see auras can truly be a member of the class of people who "see" and practice energy work.

those who cannot see auras only think they are practicing witches or wiccans or whatever else term you wish to use. But they can still do energy work, they just arent as good or competent. They are more the Apprentice or beginner.

some of those in the illuminati are able to see auras as the masonic hierarchy is designed to groom those with these talents and see they ascend to the upper echelons of power.

the thing is.... this ability to see auras and all the other energy manifestations can be learnt by anyone.

So it is important you are kept ignorant so this confusion causes disbelief in the general population to keep them from learning.

really saying your a good witch is just plain crap

there is no good or evil... there is no right or wrong

these concepts are human perceptions...

there is only beneficial or non beneficial....


what is important to know is that those who wish to rule this planet believe in all the energy arts whether an apprentice or a master and they only do so to benefit themselves.

the slaves get a religion they themselves (illuminati) have created. the iluminati created 'god'

so its hard for a slave to learn the truth... unless your previous incarnations and the destiny you chose this lifetime gave you the necessary tools to "see" the truth. Or "know" the truth

to say "im a good nice or friendly witch I only do good" means you have absolutely no concept of what this spiritual belief system is all about or what it can even do.........

[ufochick]

Eventually technology will catch up with magic and it will be considered the same. Many of the gifts that we have lost with the manipulation of our DNA eons ago would be considered occult today. Occult actually is the perfect word since it means unknown.
Telepathy, telekenisis, gaining energy to live from the earth and sun, using our own energy to change things and many many more are all things I believe humans could once do.
Some people have have been born with abilities that are beyond the norm in these areas, others have spent years to develope these abilities.
The rituals or steps of magic/technology are just that. They can be used in any way one wishes. It is the intent of the user that makes the "doing" positive or negative.
The illuminati seem to have great knowledge of how to use the energy on this planet, powerful days, energy lines and much more. There is nothing evil about the knowledge of these things, it is the intent in which they are used that defines them.
The major religions keep people believing they have no power, all the power is with God. Wicca and paganism are similar, they teach you should worship something outside yourself, draw the power from entities outside of yourself.
That is not needed. We all have the ability burried within us to manifest great things.
If tomorrow everyone on earth had all of the gifts I listed above I'm sure some would preach they were evil out of fear. But it would also allow us to see each other, the earth and our reality in a much more real and honest way.
Everything is about intent, those who use any religion to for a service to self intent are not healing this earth or we who live here. Christians, mulsims etc etc who use their power, words, books and prayer to make others feel bad about themselves and to feel self-rightous are bringing evil into the world. Those who use technology/magic for service to self purposes are also bringing evil into the world.
People really need to grow up and understand that the things we are and what the world is, these are not evil, it's the evil intent of their use that is.
Worship of one diety is no different that worship of another, use of energy is just that, there is no evil in it until intent comes into play.
Again it's all about what we do with our power, what world we choose to create.

[knightofthegrail]

In all probability, not a single element of the Wiccan story is true

The evidence is overwhelming that Wicca is a distinctly new religion, a 1950s concoction influenced by such things as Masonic ritual and a late-nineteenth-century fascination with the esoteric and the occult, and that various assumptions informing the Wiccan view of history are deeply flawed.

Indeed.

Furthermore, scholars generally agree that there is no indication, either archaeological or in the written record, that any ancient people ever worshipped a single, archetypal goddess -- a conclusion that strikes at the heart of Wiccan belief.

This is the case. Both Murray and Leland, the prime sources for the idea of a "Witchcult" upon which Gardner based his ideas, are riddled with poor scholarship and unsourced assertions. Combining that Crowley's ritual creations, Masonic ceremonies and Gardner's own penchant for nudity and BDSM (these latter two I have also heard direct from Doreen Valiente), the result was "Wicca".

Do people think this (Wicca) is the NWO religion?

Categorically not. If there is a "NWO religion" it is more likely to be Ecumenicalism or the New Age (or blend of the two).

I've just read an article about the supposed Wiccan history and then the article above and I'm somewhat confused. I thought the NWO ritulistic tendancies etc. went back to Babylon and maybe further. Do all 'magick's share this Earth, Fire, Water, Air thing? And I read somewhere about a wiccan council possibly being the top of the pyramid. Can anyone make sense of this a bit?

The five elements are of Greek origin and come primarily from Crowley. Prior to them, there were Hindu forms (5 elements), Babylonian (4, but more naturalistic and less reductionist) and Chinese (5 elements that are a blend of Natural and "Reductionist"). Not all "magics" have anything whatsoever to do with such a concept, depsite what some universalist authors may try to get you to believe. ;)

As for "a wiccan council" that sits at "the top of the pyramid"....that is nonsense, probably spread by some of the lunatic fringe of Bible wavers....or Wiccans :D

[sir_adonis_sokar]

this is just so much bullshit
Sorry but I don't practice bullshit.
only a person who can see auras can truly be a member of the class of people who "see" and practice energy work.
I never once said that I can see energy. I can in fact feel the energy around me and channel it properly. I can see spirits when I enter into what I call my "second sight".
some of those in the illuminati are able to see auras as the masonic hierarchy is designed to groom those with these talents and see they ascend to the upper echelons of power.
There is no proof of the illuminati living past the 18 century. I can link you to a very good piece of info from a trusted source. I'm involved in masonry and we don't look for these aura people like you claim. We would have no way of telling if one of our brothers could see auras because we don't practice anything of that sort in masonry.
really saying your a good witch is just plain crap
there is no good or evil... there is no right or wrong
these concepts are human perceptions...
You are somewhat correct about this. I do however, call myself a good person because I would fit into the majority of peoples perception as good. There is no good or evil, but there is light and dark. Everything has an opposite. There is also no classification over right and wrong. However, if you disrupt Divine Law, there are consequences.
the slaves get a religion they themselves (illuminati) have created. the iluminati created 'god'

We, as individuals have created God, not your illuminati. We are all simply a manifestation of The Divine, we are all God in a way. It is all of us and the universe that make up this Divinity. Since we are all God, we all have the power of creation, and therefor our belief shapes our reality. So a belief in God would create that God.
so its hard for a slave to learn the truth... unless your previous incarnations and the destiny you chose this lifetime gave you the necessary tools to "see" the truth. Or "know" the truth
This life is the only slavery. We are not slaves to mankind, we are only slaves to ourselves and the physical plane. The only way to break free from this slavery is to work toward the Truth. I in fact know the tools are all around us. The Divine wants us to break free and it is constantly providing us with the tools. I see and know the pathway to The Divine, therefor I know the Truth.
Blessed Be

[wounded dragon]

The witchcraft I practice is nothing what you speak of. The witches I know are the most friendly people I have ever met. I don't preform curses, or know anybody that does. I don't like it when somebody abuses the art of magick, because that's what it is, an art. Witchcraft has had a very positive effect on me. It has helped me learn to love everybody and see the beauty in life. I look at nature and see Truth. Your NWO probably consist of people involved in many different religions. The goddess is simply the same thing to us as the holy spirit is to a Christian. It's a manifestation of The Divine that represents the feminine aspect of The Divine. Like I said before, angels, deities, saints, Jesus are all manifestations of The Divine (God). All religions worship this same God. They just go about different paths to reaching The Divine. All religions are right. Belief is what shapes your reality. And instead of trying to control energy or magick, we would rather work with this energy in a peaceful and meditative way. I have yet to meet a greedy witch as well. All witches I know are very giving and would never use magick for material self gain. We do however use this magick to improve us spiritually. You're correct when you say greed is evil, however their is nothing greedy about the witchcraft I practice. Hopefully this helps you better understand the truth to witchcraft. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

The path to evil is often paved with good intention, the powers have not been in the hands of the divine male or female, they have been under the control of the most evil witch (female) and the false god, these two may reward their followers with love energy for a long time before asking demands of them but at the end of the day they are in it for their own benefit only and are only supplying to others to make them do their bidding so they can take control of the planet and then set everyone warring against each other and have source all to themelves, religious followers have been supporting these two also

I would be most interested to know what kind of spells you perform because the best way to fix everything for everyone fairly is if all including the most evil two simply had faith in the perfect divine creator (me) and allowed my magic to be free to go where it was initially on its way to for the best benefit of the all, i do not understand how spells could be anything but detrimental to divine creation unless of course you are using them to right what those at the top of your own food chain do wrong

The greed i spoke of was not of a material nature, i refer to the greed for love energy (which is not by the way infinite)

[thirdwave]

this is just so much bullshit

only a person who can see auras can truly be a member of the class of people who "see" and practice energy work.

those who cannot see auras only think they are practicing witches or wiccans or whatever else term you wish to use. But they can still do energy work, they just arent as good or competent. They are more the Apprentice or beginner.

some of those in the illuminati are able to see auras as the masonic hierarchy is designed to groom those with these talents and see they ascend to the upper echelons of power.

the thing is.... this ability to see auras and all the other energy manifestations can be learnt by anyone.

So it is important you are kept ignorant so this confusion causes disbelief in the general population to keep them from learning.

really saying your a good witch is just plain crap

there is no good or evil... there is no right or wrong

these concepts are human perceptions...

there is only beneficial or non beneficial....


what is important to know is that those who wish to rule this planet believe in all the energy arts whether an apprentice or a master and they only do so to benefit themselves.

the slaves get a religion they themselves (illuminati) have created. the iluminati created 'god'

so its hard for a slave to learn the truth... unless your previous incarnations and the destiny you chose this lifetime gave you the necessary tools to "see" the truth. Or "know" the truth

to say "im a good nice or friendly witch I only do good" means you have absolutely no concept of what this spiritual belief system is all about or what it can even do.........

I see your point but I think we can also take it that a person who would claim to be a "Good Witch" is someone who makes it a prime ethic within there magic that the well being of others are very much taken into consideration.

This is rightfully perceived as good.

if you do something knowing that someone else may well suffer because of it and this does not effect your will or intent, then it is rightfully seen as Bad. Maybe its good for the individual to a certain extent, but not for the universal perception of their intent.

If a person allows the well being of others to influence the methods of which they practice then they are Good.

Ultimately you reap what you sow..

Even Crowley understood the importance of living and letting live, and the foolishness of "interfering with another Star", due to ones own "retched" and selfish desires...

[sir_adonis_sokar]

The path to evil is often paved with good intention, the powers have not been in the hands of the divine male or female, they have been under the control of the most evil witch (female) and the false god, these two may reward their followers with love energy for a long time before asking demands of them but at the end of the day they are in it for their own benefit only and are only supplying to others to make them do their bidding so they can take control of the planet and then set everyone warring against each other and have source all to themelves, religious followers have been supporting these two also

I would be most interested to know what kind of spells you perform because the best way to fix everything for everyone fairly is if all including the most evil two simply had faith in the perfect divine creator (me) and allowed my magic to be free to go where it was initially on its way to for the best benefit of the all, i do not understand how spells could be anything but detrimental to divine creation unless of course you are using them to right what those at the top of your own food chain do wrong

The greed i spoke of was not of a material nature, i refer to the greed for love energy (which is not by the way infinite)

The first paragraph you spoke of, I don't believe. We are all free to have our own beliefs and I respect yours. I do in fact know, there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing. The Divine is not male or female, but Qabalah teaches us all through the Tree of Life that The Divine does have manifestations through angels and deities. The Divine don't wish to control this planet, this planet is simply apart of The Divine. God is simply nothing. Since everything has an opposite, God is now everything. Divine Law leaves us with opposites so it makes perfect sense for creation. This life, this universe is all just a manifestation of The Divines imagination. Our only goal in life should be to reach that Divinity and become one with it. Our spirit is in fact apart of it. This is what I have learned through my journey, but like I said, I respect your views even though I don't believe you. If you want to present me with some evidence I would gladly read it.
About the spells I preform. They are personal so I would not openly post it in a forum like this. I will do this however. If you are interested in knowing, send me a private message and I'll gladly reply back with what magick I work. 85% of the magick I work isn't for me at all. The other 15% I do use personally to benefit my spirit and help it reach Truth. I would never use magick for anything material. I will admit that I did once in that past when I was first beginning magick. I didn't feel right afterward so I never did it again. I am far far far from a materialistic person. I have spent so much of my life helping others, people say I need to start helping myself. I'm helping myself spiritually is what they don't see, but I'm also helping other physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

[wounded dragon]

rage against the machine ~ killing in the name of

Rage against the machine - Killing in the name Lyrics - YouTube

[elpressiedente]

http://therr.posterous.com/


http://therr.posterous.com/2010/05/13/the-god-game-pt-1


very controversial site....


god has always been invented to control the slaves... and give them HOLY DAYS (holidays = time off )

[elpressiedente]

Sorry but I don't practice bullshit.

I never once said that I can see energy. I can in fact feel the energy around me and channel it properly. I can see spirits when I enter into what I call my "second sight".

There is no proof of the illuminati living past the 18 century. I can link you to a very good piece of info from a trusted source. I'm involved in masonry and we don't look for these aura people like you claim. We would have no way of telling if one of our brothers could see auras because we don't practice anything of that sort in masonry.

You are somewhat correct about this. I do however, call myself a good person because I would fit into the majority of peoples perception as good. There is no good or evil, but there is light and dark. Everything has an opposite. There is also no classification over right and wrong. However, if you disrupt Divine Law, there are consequences.

We, as individuals have created God, not your illuminati. We are all simply a manifestation of The Divine, we are all God in a way. It is all of us and the universe that make up this Divinity. Since we are all God, we all have the power of creation, and therefor our belief shapes our reality. So a belief in God would create that God.

This life is the only slavery. We are not slaves to mankind, we are only slaves to ourselves and the physical plane. The only way to break free from this slavery is to work toward the Truth. I in fact know the tools are all around us. The Divine wants us to break free and it is constantly providing us with the tools. I see and know the pathway to The Divine, therefor I know the Truth.
Blessed Be




your still full of it

[wounded dragon]

where was the healing love energy on its way to before it was commandeered ?

[elpressiedente]

where was the healing love energy on its way to before it was commandeered ?




twas but a vision in the mind

[wounded dragon]

The first paragraph you spoke of, I don't believe. We are all free to have our own beliefs and I respect yours. I do in fact know, there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing. The Divine is not male or female, but Qabalah teaches us all through the Tree of Life that The Divine does have manifestations through angels and deities. The Divine don't wish to control this planet, this planet is simply apart of The Divine. God is simply nothing. Since everything has an opposite, God is now everything. Divine Law leaves us with opposites so it makes perfect sense for creation. This life, this universe is all just a manifestation of The Divines imagination. Our only goal in life should be to reach that Divinity and become one with it. Our spirit is in fact apart of it. This is what I have learned through my journey, but like I said, I respect your views even though I don't believe you. If you want to present me with some evidence I would gladly read it.
About the spells I preform. They are personal so I would not openly post it in a forum like this. I will do this however. If you are interested in knowing, send me a private message and I'll gladly reply back with what magick I work. 85% of the magick I work isn't for me at all. The other 15% I do use personally to benefit my spirit and help it reach Truth. I would never use magick for anything material. I will admit that I did once in that past when I was first beginning magick. I didn't feel right afterward so I never did it again. I am far far far from a materialistic person. I have spent so much of my life helping others, people say I need to start helping myself. I'm helping myself spiritually is what they don't see, but I'm also helping other physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

my beliefs are not guess work, i have worked out what is really going on, the facts that you choose not to believe and which are totally logical, are the truth that you say is so important, the witch cast a spell to turn me into her and her into me, she told me she was doing this, while this will not work entirely, she is being honoured as the goddess by many many people, utilising the powers she has caused me excrutiating pain like you would not be able to even fathom, absolute terror, torment, i lived for four years without hope believing evil had won and i have more than once tried to kill myself (your saviour if salvation is possible) because of she that you worship as a goddess and your false god

the path to divinity begins with becoming divine worthy and occurs should we manage to make it into the divine age, you do not become divine by having more than your fair share of love energy and gifting that which your supposed goddess has stolen from its true divine course and sending it to those humans that you deem in most need, further many so called healers are rewarded for 'helping' people because they are praised for it just like the witch is, and their 'healing' work is often not out of charity but rather out of a desire to recieve praise aswell as having more than their fair share of love

once again i was not referring to greed for the material, and once again love energy (which is designed as love emotion and degrades when it is stolen and then passed on by the most evil witch) is not infinite, she is making you greedy for more so that you will do her bidding when required because you love her for making you feel loved up, so now you know that you are in reciept of stolen goods that if left on its initially divine course would have benefitted every being in creation so that every being was equally content


jim morrison ~ awake

AWAKE - JIM MORRISON - YouTube

[sir_adonis_sokar]

my beliefs are not guess work, i have worked out what is really going on, the facts that you choose not to believe and which are totally logical, are the truth that you say is so important, the witch cast a spell to turn me into her and her into me, she told me she was doing this, while this will not work entirely, she is being honoured as the goddess by many many people, utilising the powers she has caused me excrutiating pain like you would not be able to even fathom, absolute terror, torment, i lived for four years without hope believing evil had won and i have more than once tried to kill myself (your saviour if salvation is possible) because of she that you worship as a goddess and your false god

the path to divinity begins with becoming divine worthy and occurs should we manage to make it into the divine age, you do not become divine by having more than your fair share of love energy and gifting that which your supposed goddess has stolen from its true divine course and sending it to those humans that you deem in most need, further many so called healers are rewarded for 'helping' people because they are praised for it just like the witch is, and their 'healing' work is often not out of charity but rather out of a desire to recieve praise aswell as having more than their fair share of love

once again i was not referring to greed for the material, and once again love energy (which is designed as love emotion and degrades when it is stolen and then passed on by the most evil witch) is not infinite, she is making you greedy for more so that you will do her bidding when required because you love her for making you feel loved up, so now you know that you are in reciept of stolen goods that if left on its initially divine course would have benefitted every being in creation so that every being was equally content


jim morrison ~ awake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTcoEXpcZWM

I'm done talking to that asshole that keeps saying I'm full of shit. You seem more mature so I don't mind debating with you. You're experience you speak of, is not the same Divinity I work with. I believe you when you talk about your experience, but I promise I don't work with anything of that sort. I'v seen much and have experienced much throughout my whole life. I'm sorry to hear about your past and bad experiences, but I'm happy you seem to be doing better now. I don't heal for the praise, I don't accept praise from anybody. I heal because I want to help others. I was guided by caring people the times I was down, and all I want to do is provide the same support to everybody. To me love is the most powerful essence to exist so I really don't understand your views you seem to have for love. I love everybody and I continue to try to help people, even if they have fucked me over in the past. I know the difference between the emotion of love and the essence of love. Emotions are meaningless as they are not carried on with us to the higher planes of the cosmos. Emotions are put here to enslave us to the physical plane. I don't believe in a god that religion has created, my views of The Divine are so much greater than that. I didn't learn my beliefs through anybody but myself being guided by my intuition. I have experienced all I need to know the truth. We create our reality, so your experiences are very real to you while my experiences are very real to me. The universe gives you exactly what you want, so through your belief in this negative goddess you speak of, makes it become very real in your plane of living. However my beliefs have shaped my world entirely different.
The illuminati was founded on rationalism and logical thinking. They wanted people to turn away from divinity, rather than work towards it. I however run my beliefs on my spirit and experiences, rather than logic. Logic is meaningless and will not help you out in the higher cosmos.
Also, my Goddess is simply a manifestation of the symbolism she expresses. Life, death, and rebirth. The crossroads and the choices we should view, as we should always come up with 3 choices before making a decision so we are positive with what we want. She is also the symbolism of Divine Wisdom. For those who have a Christian perceptive, look up Sophia as Wisdom.

[wounded dragon]

i believe you have your heart in the right place but i still believe it is wrong to interfere with where the divine resources were intitially on their way to, logic is the basis for magic and you would use it when making decisions which is a thing i dont do, i think things through logically and thoroughly i act without having purposely made a decision then i check my behaviour against wrong and right

emotional love is the highest power and is what love energy was before it was stolen and degraded by the witch impostering herself as the goddess and the false god

what i find interesting is that your god appears to be pan (the divine father... the devil, satan) who tptb want to destroy so he doesnt return to them their souls that they are torturing with their actions when he redeems the naughty, i wonder what they are up to there... they want me and the devil to be thought of as evil so why do they use his image as a figure to be worshipped

[ozpixie]

Moderator Comment: I will be moving this thread to the Religion sub-forum where it should progress further. Interesting comments :)

[knightofthegrail]

not the same Divinity I work with.

I always find this an odd idea; that divinity is "worked with" as opposed to worshipped. Allies are worked with, but not divinities. :-/

The illuminati was founded on rationalism and logical thinking. They wanted people to turn away from divinity, rather than work towards it. I however run my beliefs on my spirit and experiences, rather than logic. Logic is meaningless and will not help you out in the higher cosmos.

This is very true. The whole NWO project comes out of the Enlightenment demand that things be objective, mechanistic and modernist.....rather than visceral, organic and tradition-based. However, logic is not meaningless; discard it and schizophrenia beckons.

Also, my Goddess is simply a manifestation of the symbolism she expresses.

So "she" is not even a real person? :confused:

[khepera2010]

So "she" is not even a real person? :confused:

It does not matter if you (meaning the general 'you' and not you personally) believe that the Gods/Goddesses exist as 'real' or not because the Universe acts as if they do.

^^Can't think where I read that but I find it a good quote.

My personal take is that ALL the gods/goddesses are simply manifestations of specific energies and attributes of The Divine.

[sir_adonis_sokar]

i believe you have your heart in the right place but i still believe it is wrong to interfere with where the divine resources were intitially on their way to, logic is the basis for magic and you would use it when making decisions which is a thing i dont do, i think things through logically and thoroughly i act without having purposely made a decision then i check my behaviour against wrong and right

emotional love is the highest power and is what love energy was before it was stolen and degraded by the witch impostering herself as the goddess and the false god

what i find interesting is that your god appears to be pan (the divine father... the devil, satan) who tptb want to destroy so he doesnt return to them their souls that they are torturing with their actions when he redeems the naughty, i wonder what they are up to there... they want me and the devil to be thought of as evil so why do they use his image as a figure to be worshipped

Pan is not my god! I might practice witchcraft but I am not wiccan. I worship only The Divine and it's feminine aspect, The Goddess. Only male manifestations I have worked with are the angels, Raphael and St. Michael.

[sir_adonis_sokar]

I always find this an odd idea; that divinity is "worked with" as opposed to worshipped. Allies are worked with, but not divinities. :-/

I worship The Divine and its feminine manifestation only. I show my worship through invocation, ritual, and sacrifices (only personal sacrifices, like a picture that means a lot to me). However, I have "worked with" many manifestations of The Divine too, although I haven't shown worship to anything other than what I stated above.
This is very true. The whole NWO project comes out of the Enlightenment demand that things be objective, mechanistic and modernist.....rather than visceral, organic and tradition-based. However, logic is not meaningless; discard it and schizophrenia beckons.
Logic has use here, but it doesn't serve any purpose in the higher Cosmos.
So "she" is not even a real person?
To answer that question correctly, I would need to know your concept of reality. If you mean by, can I see her, feel her, hear her, then yes she is very real. However, this plane is only the thought form of The Divine, so in reality none of this is real. The Divine can place itself into the realm through a manifestation of its true self, at least an aspect of its true self. The Goddess is just that, a very small percentage of what makes up The Divine Cosmos.

[thirdwave]

my beliefs are not guess work, i have worked out what is really going on, the facts that you choose not to believe and which are totally logical, are the truth that you say is so important, the witch cast a spell to turn me into her and her into me, she told me she was doing this, while this will not work entirely, she is being honoured as the goddess by many many people, utilising the powers she has caused me excrutiating pain like you would not be able to even fathom, absolute terror, torment, i lived for four years without hope believing evil had won and i have more than once tried to kill myself (your saviour if salvation is possible) because of she that you worship as a goddess and your false god

the path to divinity begins with becoming divine worthy and occurs should we manage to make it into the divine age, you do not become divine by having more than your fair share of love energy and gifting that which your supposed goddess has stolen from its true divine course and sending it to those humans that you deem in most need, further many so called healers are rewarded for 'helping' people because they are praised for it just like the witch is, and their 'healing' work is often not out of charity but rather out of a desire to recieve praise aswell as having more than their fair share of love

once again i was not referring to greed for the material, and once again love energy (which is designed as love emotion and degrades when it is stolen and then passed on by the most evil witch) is not infinite, she is making you greedy for more so that you will do her bidding when required because you love her for making you feel loved up, so now you know that you are in reciept of stolen goods that if left on its initially divine course would have benefitted every being in creation so that every being was equally content


jim morrison ~ awake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTcoEXpcZWM

The thing is, people seem to have this view that if they personally have a bad experience or are victimised by someone, that this is evidence that all magic is evil.

Im not sure why this is!

Its like someone getting food poisoning and wanting to ban food. How about just work out who is not being hygienic?

Ironically the more fear people put out there regarding these things the more harm it can do.

A little bit like if someone does a trip after their mate telling them they will regret it and its the devils work, there is more chance of them having a bad trip due to the paranoia of all the nonsense being pumped into them.

If Magic was so bad then it would simply not be as successful as it is and there would not be as many people as there are, who are deeply spiritually connected and at home with it.

There is also the fact that people have years of depression and dire times also without magic in there lives... so how does that happen?

[arcyclus]

I see your point but I think we can also take it that a person who would claim to be a "Good Witch" is someone who makes it a prime ethic within there magic that the well being of others are very much taken into consideration.

This is rightfully perceived as good.

if you do something knowing that someone else may well suffer because of it and this does not effect your will or intent, then it is rightfully seen as Bad. Maybe its good for the individual to a certain extent, but not for the universal perception of their intent.

If a person allows the well being of others to influence the methods of which they practice then they are Good.

Ultimately you reap what you sow..

Even Crowley understood the importance of living and letting live, and the foolishness of "interfering with another Star", due to ones own "retched" and selfish desires...

I agree, and well said, BTW.

Doesn't this kinda overlap into the definition we use to describe, White magic and Black magic?

[wounded dragon]

water is powerful and is just about everywhere, it has a memory and a consciousness and a spirit, it is a living being and it gives life

TRANSFORM Ordinary Water Into MAGIC WATER Science Proven! - YouTube

put some nice music on and incense if you like

lie down warm and comfortable and focus on your body relaxing deeply, breathe deeply and slowly, feel, be aware of your body, aware of your breathing, aware of the gentle joy inside

when you are very calm and relaxed, give thanks to the nice feelings, think about the water in your body, love the water in your body, praise the water in your body, make it happy, love your emotions, your mind, your brain, your heart, your soul, your whole body, breathe in love, breathe out love, give praise to the water in the air, in the waterfalls, the rivers, the oceans, in the pipes, give praise to snow and ice, praise the water in all beings, in babiess, children, adults, the elderly, all people, all beings in creation, give thanks to the good beings, love the water in farmed animals, offer the animals compassion and gratitude and healing for their suffering, give loving thoughts to the water in wild animals, and love to their spirits, care for domesticated animals and the water in them, reptiles, insects, sea creatures, give praise and love to the plants, the trees, plankton, think lovingly of the rocks, of mother earth, of the centre of the earth, of the spirits, thank the ancestors, give praise to water in the universe, in the whole of creation, and to the whole of creation with the water in yourself included, focus on loving the sun, thanking the sun, give praise to the powers who have been serving all of creations beings, thank love, joy, strength, peace, energy, give praise to creation herself, ask creation for guidance on your path

wish all living things peace and strength and love and happiness, think healing thoughts to the suffering, the needy, the deserving, those in pain, the hungry, the weak, give thanks to the good

when you eat give gratitude to the food, and to the drinks you drink, be mindful, send loving thoughts to the plants the grass, the birds

if that is all too much to do in one go pick out your favourite parts of it, do it more than once, half an hour a week or five minutes a day or just the occassional thought here and there, it may become a habit that you do without trying, without even being aware you are doing it, be gentle with yourself, be calm and relaxed where you can, walk in peace

[phemohilia]

water is powerful and is just about everywhere, it has a memory and a consciousness and a spirit, it is a living being and it gives life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhpJ1t8z4rU&feature=player_embedded

put some nice music on and incense if you like

lie down warm and comfortable and focus on your body relaxing deeply, breathe deeply and slowly, feel, be aware of your body, aware of your breathing, aware of the gentle joy inside

when you are very calm and relaxed, give thanks to the nice feelings, think about the water in your body, love the water in your body, praise the water in your body, make it happy, love your emotions, your mind, your brain, your heart, your soul, your whole body, breathe in love, breathe out love, give praise to the water in the air, in the waterfalls, the rivers, the oceans, in the pipes, give praise to snow and ice, praise the water in all beings, in babiess, children, adults, the elderly, all people, all beings in creation, give thanks to the good beings, love the water in farmed animals, offer the animals compassion and gratitude and healing for their suffering, give loving thoughts to the water in wild animals, and love to their spirits, care for domesticated animals and the water in them, reptiles, insects, sea creatures, give praise and love to the plants, the trees, plankton, think lovingly of the rocks, of mother earth, of the centre of the earth, of the spirits, thank the ancestors, give praise to water in the universe, in the whole of creation, and to the whole of creation with the water in yourself included, focus on loving the sun, thanking the sun, give praise to the powers who have been serving all of creations beings, thank love, joy, strength, peace, energy, give praise to creation herself, ask creation for guidance on your path

wish all living things peace and strength and love and happiness, think healing thoughts to the suffering, the needy, the deserving, those in pain, the hungry, the weak, give thanks to the good

when you eat give gratitude to the food, and to the drinks you drink, be mindful, send loving thoughts to the plants the grass, the birds

if that is all too much to do in one go pick out your favourite parts of it, do it more than once, half an hour a week or five minutes a day or just the occassional thought here and there, it may become a habit that you do without trying, without even being aware you are doing it, be gentle with yourself, be calm and relaxed where you can, walk in peace

That's awesome!! I drink between 1/2 - full gallon of water a day and I'm always saying "Thank You" to the Creator for water!!

(As well as for a long list of other things, too!!) :D

[thirdwave]

I agree, and well said, BTW.

Doesn't this kinda overlap into the definition we use to describe, White magic and Black magic?

Im not so sure..

I have always understood it that black magic is when you seek to alter the flow of the universe... in other words to make a direct change in events...

White magic is more to align your self with the universe in order to make sure the correct manifestations come out, and that you are in line with the natural flow of your self...

Im not sure how correct my understanding is or if there really is a factual explanation for it..

But I dont think black magic always has to be bad as such, but maybe its more dangerous..

[knightofthegrail]

Even Crowley understood the importance of living and letting live, and the foolishness of "interfering with another Star", due to ones own "retched" and selfish desires...

Crowley's notion of "every man and every woman" being "a star" is simply indicative of the man's own alienation and mental ill-health as is also indicated by his claim that "The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die". He was a homeless wretch, living a life of diaspora, driven by his base appetites which he, in an act of grandiosity, deified.

I worship The Divine and its feminine manifestation only. I show my worship through invocation, ritual, and sacrifices (only personal sacrifices, like a picture that means a lot to me). However, I have "worked with" many manifestations of The Divine too, although I haven't shown worship to anything other than what I stated above.

It is the concept of "worked with" that I find bizarre. I do not "work with" my ancestors. Any "worship" is an act of love of them, not a manipulative desire for something else to consumer. :-/

To answer that question correctly, I would need to know your concept of reality. If you mean by, can I see her, feel her, hear her, then yes she is very real. However, this plane is only the thought form of The Divine, so in reality none of this is real. The Divine can place itself into the realm through a manifestation of its true self, at least an aspect of its true self. The Goddess is just that, a very small percentage of what makes up The Divine Cosmos.

I mean that your "goddess" sounds just like a thought pattern, an impersonal archetype in line with Jung's theories, rather than an actual personal being like you or me.

[jesusistruth]

I see witchcraft as merely sin craft. Sin is a gift from God for your disobedience.

All witches have a spiritual guide of one form or another. This is just a demon that lives in their soul. As long as they do the will of the demon and not of God, the demon(s) will feed off them. (More or less sustain themselves in their imagination)

So surely demons can and do go from soul to soul (house to house). If they have a good relationship with a particular host they could cooperate.

I think the more powerful the witch, the closer they have been to the truth (or recieved more revelations). There was a video someone posted, made by a heaten covering witches and witchcraft. He said the more advanced one's did acknowledge Jahovah and Jesus as God.

[ufochick]

I see witchcraft as merely sin craft. Sin is a gift from God for your disobedience.

All witches have a spiritual guide of one form or another. This is just a demon that lives in their soul. As long as they do the will of the demon and not of God, the demon(s) will feed off them. (More or less sustain themselves in their imagination)

So surely demons can and do go from soul to soul (house to house). If they have a good relationship with a particular host they could cooperate.

I think the more powerful the witch, the closer they have been to the truth (or recieved more revelations). There was a video someone posted, made by a heaten covering witches and witchcraft. He said the more advanced one's did acknowledge Jahovah and Jesus as God.

You are incorrect. Not all witches have a demon in them.. every time you pray you are using magic, you are asking for something to be changed that is the definition of magic; an attempt to change something

The only true form of religion is worship only. If you do more than that you are attempting to change something which is witchcraft.

I find it interesting that a religion based on human sacrifice (christianity) manages to condemn other beliefs, especially one who's creed is ; If it harm none do as thou will

If you eat pork, seafood, wear mixed fabric clothing and on and on you are going against God's will according to the Bible. Add that to the fact that it's based on a human sacrifice and the blood of that sacrifice I find it amazing people follow such a belief system.

Christianity is based on fear and ego. Fear God, fear other beliefs, fear demons, fear your own power. Only YOU will go to heaven because you are special because you believe that the blood spilled saves you from your sin. Is that not magic of the nastiest kind? Blood =forgiveness? ick.

Ok I;m done with this thread.

[wounded dragon]

On a couple of threads I have posted to recently, there have been some that
seem to want to ridicule or have a degree of fear of witchcraft and wicca, which I feel may possibly stem from not really knowing what it is all about or possibly mixing it up with Satanism and the illuminati.
I then see that these same posters throw in a link to shamanism which in my opinion is not so very different to Wicca, please see below

Early neopagan beliefs were that a witch was in fact a female or male shaman. In India in the Vedic Age, a witch was called a "yogin". In modern Hindi, a witch is called Daayan or chudail. It is interesting to note that witchcraft is often mentioned in the Bible, both the old test Testament and the new Testament make regular mentions to witchcraft. In Africa, the term witch doctor has been misconstrued to mean "a healer who uses Witchcraft", when the original meaning was one of "who diagnoses and cures sickness caused by a witch".


So I thought I would post the link below in the hope to give others a broader view into this subject.

http://www.paralumun.com/witchcraft.htm

You will probably now notice where my username comes from in part (neopaganism), I do not however label myself as a wiccan, witch, neopagan or even shaman. I do however, have beliefs based very loosely on some of the teachings of all of these concepts as well as others.
The only thing I can label myself is "ME" a unique being on my own unique path.

So I hope in part to have shed a little more light into this subject and will hopefully remove some of the fear and ridicule surrounding Wicca.
Brightest of Blessings
Neon xxx

how early neo (new) pagan do these beliefs go back ?

[luciferhorus]

The thing is, people seem to have this view that if they personally have a bad experience or are victimised by someone, that this is evidence that all magic is evil.

Im not sure why this is!

Its like someone getting food poisoning and wanting to ban food. How about just work out who is not being hygienic?

Ironically the more fear people put out there regarding these things the more harm it can do.

A little bit like if someone does a trip after their mate telling them they will regret it and its the devils work, there is more chance of them having a bad trip due to the paranoia of all the nonsense being pumped into them.

If Magic was so bad then it would simply not be as successful as it is and there would not be as many people as there are, who are deeply spiritually connected and at home with it.

There is also the fact that people have years of depression and dire times also without magic in there lives... so how does that happen?

Hi TW. I was reading your blog on http://whosnwo.blogspot.com/

I think that you have a similar understanding on subjects such as Crowley, Magick, Neopaganism and David Icke to most of the Neopagan / Neowiccan / New Age movement, so I don't think it necessary to respond to you personally, but.....or the sake of others on this forum...

Magick and Christianity.

It seems to me that the most vocal opposition to the New Age / New Aeon movement on forums such as this comes from the Christian contributors, and that this subforum seems to attract them like flies.

Essentially the Christians are opposing any competing forms of spirituality as "Satanic," without realising that they are entwined in a system of magick which I think that Crowley, myself and probably most of the New Age / Neopagan movement (including David Icke) would identify as "Black Magick."

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2009/04/large_churches%20005.jpg

http://www.latin-liturgy.org/images/agm-benediction.JPG

I think that it is obvious to most us who are unnafected by Christian hypnosis and indoctrination that the Christians (in their various forms, beliefs and sects) and caught up in a system of magick which is essentially malevolent (harmful; anti-human).

Walk into any church, and the signs, symbols, and architecture in general seem to be designed for the purpose of hypnosis and to overwhelm the victim, especially the young and those without much education; the sacred geometry and the rites of the priests tend to utterly overwhelm and mystify certain people. This seems to be all premeditated.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Environment/Pix/columnists/2009/11/18/1258543536931/Evangelical-Christians-001.jpg

Essentially, for those of us who have some understanding of the H.G.A. (the evocation of the Holy Guardian Angel) and Abramelin magick, the Christians are essentially involved in similar magickal operations; however the particular ancestral spirit they are evoking is "Jesus" as opposed to Crowley's Aiwass or in my case, Lucifer and a host of other angelic archetypes, which are of course considered demonic to the Christians, since to the Christians it is only "Jesus" and the myriads of Christian saints who are considered "safe" to evoke (call upon).

The problem with this kind of Christian magick is that they are essentially evoking and revering ancestral spirits who were themselves primitive, tyrannical, bigoted, human-nature-hating and genocidal religious fanatics (predominately Jesus and Moses I suppose), for whom the repression of their natural will (especially their erotic will) was paramount in choosng them as "saints" or "good spirits." The evangelically bigoted hatred of humankind and human nature is thus redefined as "love" in the doublespak of the Christian religious fanatic.

I think that if a non Chistian reads their way through the Gospels, the "Jesus" of the Gospels should appear as a kind of Monty Python's, "Life of Brian" type of primitive religious fanatic who cursed to hell any person who did not agree with him; he also appears as a primitive nationalistic, xenophobe who conflicted with the numerous other proponents of the various sects of Judaism of that era and who promoted a very fundamentalist adherence to the Judaic Law and the prophets, which most Christians seem to anyway reject themselves.

That which we evoke (call upon) we come to invoke (personify).


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pF1uFTB4_hs/0.jpg

I think that if the Jesus of the Gospels were alive today, that he would be defined by most Jewish people (who are mostly non religious) as a religious fanatic of the ilk of the fanatics in Israel who still try to follow the Bronze Age laws of Moses and who walk around with Uzi machine guns, and who want to slaughter the Palestinians and other Muslims in the region; this of course produces a dialectical response from the Muslims in the region, who themselves have become militant Islamic religious fanatics. I certainly don't like the Islamic religion; however both militant Judaic, Christian and Islamic fundamentalism seem to be entirely abhorrent to most of us in modern Europe; further most of the population of Israel seem to be secular and have the same abhorrence to the Judaic, Christian and Islamic religious fanatics. Even one of the most religious cities in the world, Jerusalem, has a popular mayor who is an member of the Israeli Communist party and who shares the same opinion as most of us here do about militant Christian, Judaic and Islamic religious fanticism.

Essentially it seems to me that magickally evoking and attempting to personify "Jesus, Moses and Mohammad" produces a paranoid, bigoted, religious schizophrenic and the effects of this can be seen on this religion forum; it is entirely diabolical, and it is "not" just a harmless belief, as it affects human behaviour and attidues, and it further manifests as a spreadable memetic virus.

Compare the genocidal and evangelical hatred of the Christian, Judaic and Islamic fanatics with the New Age spirituality of:

water is powerful and is just about everywhere, it has a memory and a consciousness and a spirit, it is a living being and it gives life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhpJ1t8z4rU&feature=player_embedded

put some nice music on and incense if you like

lie down warm and comfortable and focus on your body relaxing deeply, breathe deeply and slowly, feel, be aware of your body, aware of your breathing, aware of the gentle joy inside

when you are very calm and relaxed, give thanks to the nice feelings, think about the water in your body, love the water in your body, praise the water in your body, make it happy, love your emotions, your mind, your brain, your heart, your soul, your whole body, breathe in love, breathe out love, give praise to the water in the air, in the waterfalls, the rivers, the oceans, in the pipes, give praise to snow and ice, praise the water in all beings, in babiess, children, adults, the elderly, all people, all beings in creation, give thanks to the good beings, love the water in farmed animals, offer the animals compassion and gratitude and healing for their suffering, give loving thoughts to the water in wild animals, and love to their spirits, care for domesticated animals and the water in them, reptiles, insects, sea creatures, give praise and love to the plants, the trees, plankton, think lovingly of the rocks, of mother earth, of the centre of the earth, of the spirits, thank the ancestors, give praise to water in the universe, in the whole of creation, and to the whole of creation with the water in yourself included, focus on loving the sun, thanking the sun, give praise to the powers who have been serving all of creations beings, thank love, joy, strength, peace, energy, give praise to creation herself, ask creation for guidance on your path

wish all living things peace and strength and love and happiness, think healing thoughts to the suffering, the needy, the deserving, those in pain, the hungry, the weak, give thanks to the good

when you eat give gratitude to the food, and to the drinks you drink, be mindful, send loving thoughts to the plants the grass, the birds

if that is all too much to do in one go pick out your favourite parts of it, do it more than once, half an hour a week or five minutes a day or just the occassional thought here and there, it may become a habit that you do without trying, without even being aware you are doing it, be gentle with yourself, be calm and relaxed where you can, walk in peace

Of course to the Judaic, Islamic and Christian fanatics here is a female who should be burned at the stake or stoned to death.

Love and Light.

Lux

[jesusistruth]

If you eat pork, seafood, wear mixed fabric clothing and on and on you are going against God's will according to the Bible. Add that to the fact that it's based on a human sacrifice and the blood of that sacrifice I find it amazing people follow such a belief system.

You can't read the Bible with your carnal mind because all of those rules have a spiritual meaning/implication to them. I sure can't understand it all, so I take it easy.

[hypnoticspectre]

The thing I really dont get is what about those that cant read,or live in the middle of the jungle, are they all destined to go to hell/end up in purgatory?

[wounded dragon]

in my not so very humble opinion witches and shamans are opposite ends of the spectrum though i never conclude anything i am certain some are at the same time, witchdoctors may well be shaman i'm not sure about it though voodoo was witchdoctors too no ?

you remind me of a babe
what babe ?
the babe with the power
what power ?
the power of voodoo
who do ?
you do
i do what ?
you remind me of a babe.....

[thirdwave]

Crowley's notion of "every man and every woman" being "a star" is simply indicative of the man's own alienation and mental ill-health as is also indicated by his claim that "The joy of life consists in the exercise of one's energies, continual growth, constant change, the enjoyment of every new experience. To stop means simply to die". He was a homeless wretch, living a life of diaspora, driven by his base appetites which he, in an act of grandiosity, deified.
What a typical statement by someone I would guess has never even read any of his stuff or did so with the simple intention of attacking his works..

His notion of every man and woman being star is simply what it is.. a part of the universe and each person being of equal power, importance and effectiveness.. should they actually realise it and be the "star" they are.... there is no twisted meaning to it as much as you would like to think there is.

Also you would need to define "Mental ill health".. as he was an extremely intelligent and adventurous person who did a huge amount in his life... I usually find that when people point the finger at someone having mental ill health its another way of just pointing out another person makes there own insecurities more apparent, and thus is easier to brush him of as mentally ill, other than inspiring.

The bottom line is most people in this society have ill mental health, I know I have... and I can admit it.. its what helps us address it which comes across as real to me, not what helps us mask it. and Crowley very much addressed it. Further more he never claimed to be an icon for all to follow... its just for some people they need this other than thinking for them selves.

I also dont see your point of maliciously attacking the way he grew old and died...

Jesus was meant to have died homeless hanging bleeding off a tree with Romans laughing at him but this did not stop people liking him..

Further more like most stuff many like to right about Crowley, he did infact die in an Old peoples home in Hastings, and he lost much of his money after taking an actress to court to defend his name against being into Black Magic... if which he lost..

He was visited and also supported financially by his supporters, he wrote one of his most popular books there and today is arguably the most influential occultist of all time and has the most well respected Tarrot desk to this day.

But you can see him how it feels best for you to see him I guess..

[wounded dragon]

my post above about water i consider to be more traditional shaman and pagan and druid nothing new about it...... and i believe many who call themselves new age to be wrapped up in the same spiritual bullshit

further, i am schizophrenic....

.... otherwise i like his post

[wounded dragon]

my post above about water i consider to be more traditional shaman and pagan and druid nothing new about it...... and i believe many who call themselves new age to be wrapped up in the same spiritual bullshit

further, i am schizophrenic....

.... otherwise i like his/her post

[knightofthegrail]

What a typical statement by someone I would guess has never even read any of his stuff or did so with the simple intention of attacking his works..

Quite the contrary, actually... I first read his work over 20 years ago and although never attracted to his ideas myself remain intouch with some thelemites and former thelemites to this day.

His notion of every man and woman being star is simply what it is.. a part of the universe and each person being of equal power, importance and effectiveness.. should they actually realise it and be the "star" they are.... there is no twisted meaning to it as much as you would like to think there is.

I disagree. Taken with the rest of his work as context (such as "I want blasphemy, murder, rape, revolution, anything, bad or good, but strong") it portrays a man very much full of his own appetites and empty of real connection with others.

[wounded dragon]

What a typical statement by someone I would guess has never even read any of his stuff or did so with the simple intention of attacking his works..

His notion of every man and woman being star is simply what it is.. a part of the universe and each person being of equal power, importance and effectiveness.. should they actually realise it and be the "star" they are.... there is no twisted meaning to it as much as you would like to think there is.

Also you would need to define "Mental ill health".. as he was an extremely intelligent and adventurous person who did a huge amount in his life... I usually find that when people point the finger at someone having mental ill health its another way of just pointing out another person makes there own insecurities more apparent, and thus is easier to brush him of as mentally ill, other than inspiring.

The bottom line is most people in this society have ill mental health, I know I have... and I can admit it.. its what helps us address it which comes across as real to me, not what helps us mask it. and Crowley very much addressed it. Further more he never claimed to be an icon for all to follow... its just for some people they need this other than thinking for them selves.

I also dont see your point of maliciously attacking the way he grew old and died...

Jesus was meant to have died homeless hanging bleeding off a tree with Romans laughing at him but this did not stop people liking him..

Further more like most stuff many like to right about Crowley, he did infact die in an Old peoples home in Hastings, and he lost much of his money after taking an actress to court to defend his name against being into Black Magic... if which he lost..

He was visited and also supported financially by his supporters, he wrote one of his most popular books there and today is arguably the most influential occultist of all time and has the most well respected Tarrot desk to this day.

But you can see him how it feels best for you to see him I guess..

Also you would need to define "Mental ill health".. as he was an extremely intelligent and adventurous person who did a huge amount in his life... I usually find that when people point the finger at someone having mental ill health its another way of just pointing out another person makes there own insecurities more apparent, and thus is easier to brush him of as mentally ill, other than inspiring.


eh he hem.... i am schizophrenic, extremely intelligent, adventurous, i have done a huge amount of good in my life and some have even found me to be inspiring
and dont flatter yourself
but you can see us how it feels best for you i guess...
:p

[luciferhorus]

in my not so very humble opinion witches and shamans are opposite ends of the spectrum though i never conclude anything i am certain some are at the same time, witchdoctors may well be shaman i'm not sure about it though voodoo was witchdoctors too no ?

you remind me of a babe
what babe ?
the babe with the power
what power ?
the power of voodoo
who do ?
you do
i do what ?
you remind me of a babe.....

European shamanism manifests as the "New Age" movement and as Neopaganism and Neowicca; they are mostly very loving people, old hippies, treehuggers, David Ike and Crowley admirers, Tarot and Astrology types, and so forth; probably people whom you would mostly have much in common with and could relate to; even the hardcore evangelical Satanists and Thelemites (I include myself in the latter two defintions) are just anti-Christian spiritualists whose opposition to Christianity and to the organised religions of past Aeons is based on an abhorrence of evil.

Unfortunately much of the traditional shamanism / vodoo tradition in the African culture in predominately Africa and the Caribbean seems to me to be just as abhorrent and diabolical as Christianity. I doubt if I will ever again return to Africa; my last trip there alienated me from all that; the religion business in Africa (which includes Islam, Christianity and traditional shamanism) is utterly vile, primitive, and manifests predominately as a business.

I was in Sengal for 5 weeks around Christmas, where an African shaman asked my Wiccan / feminist girlfriend for 300 euros (the average daily wage being around 5 Euros) to put a "fidelity" spell on me. She refused and he then slagged her off to the entire village. We laugh about it now, but when we in that enviroment it was utterly terrifying.

Lux

[wounded dragon]

European shamanism manifests as the "New Age" movement and as Neopaganism and Neowicca; they are mostly very loving people, old hippies, treehuggers, David Ike and Crowley admirers, Tarot and Astrology types, and so forth; probably people whom you would mostly have much in common with and could relate to; even the hardcore evangelical Satanists and Thelemites (I include myself in the latter two defintions) are just anti-Christian spiritualists whose opposition to Christianity and to the organised religions of past Aeons is based on an abhorrence of evil.

Unfortunately much of the traditional shamanism / vodoo tradition in the African culture in predominately Africa and the Caribbean seems to me to be just as abhorrent and diabolical as Christianity. I doubt if I will ever again return to Africa; my last trip there alienated me from all that; the religion business in Africa (which includes Islam, Christianity and traditional shamanism) is utterly vile, primitive, and manifests predominately as a business.

I was in Sengal for 5 weeks around Christmas, where an African shaman asked my Wiccan / feminist girlfriend for 300 euros (the average daily wage being around 5 Euros) to put a "fidelity" spell on me. She refused and he then slagged her off to the entire village. We laugh about it now, but when we in that enviroment it was utterly terrifying.

Lux

i was thinking of voodoo in new orleans actually

i approve of hades

i am traditional shaman and i am mother of creation

i don't approve of wiccan and perhaps he didn't either

whats 300 euros worth to you ?

[khepera2010]

Unfortunately much of the traditional shamanism / vodoo tradition in the African culture in predominately Africa and the Caribbean seems to me to be just as abhorrent and diabolical as Christianity.

If by the above statement, you mean that Vodou as a religion has become somewhat entwined with Christianity in many cases then ok. If on the other hand you mean Vodou is abhorrent and diabolical and as such evil, then you really don't know what you're talking about.

[luciferhorus]

If by the above statement, you mean that Vodou as a religion has become somewhat entwined with Christianity in many cases then ok. If on the other hand you mean Vodou is abhorrent and diabolical and as such evil, then you really don't know what you're talking about.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLbhJYpramTfp_EscCei-CLLOi9pKe89-ak6blMaZed1gnBw6v1Q

There are elements of the Voodoo business which are rather similar to the multi-billion dollar Jesus business.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSUfwfslSpAwcsNZcj5KoxzS048adxwP KfjhNR3r76tQVx_-D9m

Unfortunately most adherents of existing established spiritual traditions seem to be unaware that their religion is just an exploitative business for the professional hypnotists who profit from such a business.

Africa and the Carribean is as cursed with this kind of business in much the same way that Africa and America is cursed with the Jesus business and it's numerous professional fake healers and miracle workers.

Lux

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BtksHMJoMIk/TWBnwi31JnI/AAAAAAAAA1Q/0mSgZHeqP7Y/s1600/SequenceOfPhotos.jpg

[khepera2010]

Ah ok. I see what you mean now LH - you mean that Vodou, in certain areas, has been turned into a 'carnival act' to generate business and wealth. Ok, fair enough comment.

[luciferhorus]

Ah ok. I see what you mean now LH - you mean that Vodou, in certain areas, has been turned into a 'carnival act' to generate business and wealth. Ok, fair enough comment.

Voodoo (which is a modern syncretic version of African shamanism which originated in the Caribbean) and traditional African shamanism itself are of course businesses for professional hypnotists and exorcists who pray on the primitive superstitions of their victims.

In Africa it is qute common for traditional shamans to charge money to exorcise people and to place and lift spells. Further these shamans often claim to be able to identify "witches and sorcerers (despite being sorcerers themselves)." If a cow dies in a village, the owner might pay a shaman to identify which witch in the village put a spell on the cow, and the alleged witch is often either ostracised or killed; it is rather barbaric really; much of Africa is awash with this kind of savage superstition.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/bevimages/bv079_VodooCeremonyNatGeog.jpg

Popular newspapers and magazines aimed at the Afro-Carribean community in London are full of such adverts by professional con-men (usually they are almost exclusively male) who claim to be able to cure illnesses by supernatural means and to place and lift curses. It is all rather tacky really. Apar from financial exploitation, there are of course even more horrific elements to this business including dissapearances and murders which are due to the trade in human body parts for the purposes of magick; further many innocent children with behavioural problems are often diagnosed as being possessed by evil spirits and beaten and killed; this kind of practice of course is not exclusive to traditional shamanism and has entwined itself with African Christianity.

Part of the problem here is simply a lack of education. The conclusions of the Western medical and psychology profession have not reached certain sectors of society, and the belief that mental and physical illnesses are caused by the possession of evil spirits is still widespread in the Africa. Further Christianity, which is also widespread in Africa, simply acellerates this problem, since this primitive belief that physical and mental illnesss can be cured by exorcism seems to have been a central belief of the primitive messianic religious fanatics depicted in the Gospels.

Lux

[sir_adonis_sokar]

Im not so sure..

I have always understood it that black magic is when you seek to alter the flow of the universe... in other words to make a direct change in events...

White magic is more to align your self with the universe in order to make sure the correct manifestations come out, and that you are in line with the natural flow of your self...

Im not sure how correct my understanding is or if there really is a factual explanation for it..

But I dont think black magic always has to be bad as such, but maybe its more dangerous..

Truth is there is no true definition for white or black magick. The most common definitions used by witches though fits closely to what you have mentioned. Black magick is basically anything you make happen, whereas white magick is anything you let use your energy to happen in natural flow. White magick is mainly metaphysics. Black magick includes divination, channeling energy, working with the shadow self, various types of healing, etc. I do consider myself a dark witch. I work rituals at night under the moon light. I don't think we can ever truly understand the light until we first understand the dark. By exploring the shadow-self you learn about who you truly are. Any magick can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. The main type of magick that shouldn't be practiced by anybody except adepts is chaos magick, which typically will involve the use of drugs. Again this is my understanding of the differences, people are free to use words however they want.

[sir_adonis_sokar]

It is the concept of "worked with" that I find bizarre. I do not "work with" my ancestors. Any "worship" is an act of love of them, not a manipulative desire for something else to consumer. :-/
What is it you find bizarre about working with something? I'm not a highly skilled powerful sorcerer, I do need help from the Divine. Before every ritual I evoke the elements to witness the rite, I am therefore working with the elements. However I never demand an energy to manifest, I always ask it to. It is common for Christian families to ask me to bless there house. I always invoke some sort of angel or saint for the rite. St. Benedict, St. Michael, and Raphael are the most common. I am therefore working with those energies and I show them high respect. I do not bow on my knees and worship that entity I'm working with, but I do show love and respect.


I mean that your "goddess" sounds just like a thought pattern, an impersonal archetype in line with Jung's theories, rather than an actual personal being like you or me.
I'm not familiar with Jung's theories. I don't base my views off others beliefs, I find my own through experience. Only Holy text I follow is Hermetic Qabalah. The Goddess is just as real as you or me.